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You'll remember Maria Bailey, former Prenegotiated, who was involved in the so-called swing gate incident. And at the time it led to a lot of commentary and national headlines. And during the week, she spoke to the Star about the level of online abuse she received afterwards. I've been talking to Maria about the aftermath of that controversy.

Good morning, Maria Bailey. Morning. I know you've been laying low since this Springwood incident, and you said that nothing could have prepared you for what happened next.

Yes, I did. And on Sunday, just to put it into context, I hadn't spoken publicly about this for a very long time, for a number of reasons, mainly fair. And I received a phone call from a journalist that I hadn't spoken to before. But when the number came up my phone, I didn't recognise it. And for a long time I wouldn't answer a call. You know, I get a shuddering feeling of not knowing what was coming, you know, and I'd let it go to voicemail.

But I answered the call and he was doing a story about Stephen Donnelly and the attack on his home. And it just resonated. And I said nothing has changed you except the rough and tumble that comes with politics. And it can be really rough, but that's part of the job. And it's a challenging role, but it's a very fulfilling role. But when it crosses the line into your private life, into your family's life, it's too much.

And and so I'm a bit nervous, OK, to put it into context. And this blew up out of nowhere, a very vulnerable time in my life and my family's life. And my father had been diagnosed with rapid motor neurone disease. And we were watching him disappear in front of our eyes at the time. And he was on breathing machines, suction machines, hoists. Anybody who's caring for a family member knows the pressure that comes with with that heart.

Where was your father? What was going on?

Or your mind is perfect, like emotion around your body? Well, in his case, sorry, different people respond differently to it. His mind was perfect, if not sharper than ever.

So while he was sitting in the sitting room, the TV would be on and this was on every outlet, radio, TV, everything.

There was no escaping that. OK, and just to put this in context, for anyone who who doesn't know, this was when you did an interview about fire. This was prior to prior to the interview.

And so this was like there's the perception that it only kicked off after that. This was really intense, severe, serious pressure prior to that. And that's what probably brought me to do the interview. And that was my decision and that was my mistake. And I accept that. And but I did it because I needed it to stop.

OK, so to take us back what was going on that you needed to stop.

And so I too, had had people coming to my door and.

I was afraid to go anywhere in the first 11 days, there was 128 articles, numerous front pages, Theresa May had stood down. I was front page. There was numerous things like that, really serious things happening in the world. And I was still front page.

And this was the story about you taking the case. Yes. Yeah. And details about the case. And so I couldn't comment on the case because it was a live case. But yes, I issued proceedings, but I hadn't gone to court yet, so I couldn't comment. But when you can't comment, I was told that a page still needs to be filled. And so it was very uncomfortable. The things that I was reading, which then online turned into Meems, you know, and and various other things.

And the abuse was vile. It was toxic online. But then I was reading commentary about my dad being dragged into this.

So that was very difficult, obviously, for your father and not well at all. An awful time for you all this was going on. So just to talk a bit about abuse, I suppose, Maria, really stuff that was reported in the papers and everything on one level.

And it was true. You had taken, I suppose, what you must look, you must have thought at the time, even before you did I make that decision to take this case because it had brought all this down on you?

Well, hindsight's a great thing. And when you're in a role as a politician, you make a lot of judgement calls. And one day and this was obviously a bad one, you know. But when the incident occurred, I wasn't a national politician. I was injured late. Taking legal action was not my first port of call. There was about five, six months of back and forth before that happened. OK, and we can't get into that on Friday.

Yeah. So the abuse then outside of the we would call, you know, print and broadcast media, whatever. What kind of abuse were you getting?

Oh, I was getting direct messages and like the social media stuff was just vile. It was it was so toxic, like my numbers. And I'm not I wasn't somebody who was great on social media, to be honest with you. And I was very late to it. I didn't have it for my first three elections. I never relied on it. And I was only when I ran for the general election that I created professional platforms.

I just for people saying, I'm sorry, but I can't repeat the words that I wouldn't use another.

It was just, you know, words like fraud and other things I should do to myself. Fairly horrible things for and I'm reluctant to say the words because I don't want to get the money airtime either because they don't want it. OK, but at the time when you feel that vulnerable and believe me, I felt vulnerable and I also felt ashamed. You're under a rock and you're just trying to get out from under that rock.

Were you looking at all this stuff? Yeah.

Why am I had a fantastic team in my office that I'm still very close with. And so from the very first article, we decided we were keeping a record of absolutely everything. And but there was in print, online or conversations, everything, which I did because things moved so fast or you left a room and something different would appear in the paper the next day, something that you hadn't said. Or, you know, if I sneezed, it nearly reported it, wasn't it?

That was the kind of silliness that was happening. And I needed to understand what was being said, even though I couldn't respond.

And you also, I suppose in a way, like you see, people probably thought this was harmless, but you became a figure of fun. There were Halloween costumes, I believe. Yeah. So in high school, you were seeing all this? Yeah. So during the summer there was summer festivals where there was, you know, somebody sitting there a swing and have to be knocked off. Would it be named after me or you know, there was a Manasquan put up there to look like me.

And, you know, there was at Halloween, there was pictures of costumes being sent to me online. And Halloween was a very difficult time because that was a year to the date of when my dad was diagnosed. So was it difficult time and a difficult night for different reasons as well. And and then Christmas pantomime. So my always as kids, we were brought to the pantomime, I won't say where, but in Dublin anyway, and I didn't go this year because I just I couldn't face it, to be honest with you.

And so my I'm one of five girls somewhere, an exceptionally close family. And they said that I got a phone call from my sister, said they had to go because I was the end jokes at the start of the pantomime.

And then she had to leave with. They left. Yeah. Yeah.

And because they saw what it what it did to me, what did it do to you?

What affected all this Avenir and. To be honest, it destroyed me and. I was a very outgoing person, and but as this went on, there was times where I was fearful of doing a weekly shop and fearful on it. Sorry, OK. Fearful of bringing my kids to a playground and that if I was seen pushing them on a swing, it would be blown up out of all proportion and ridiculed. And my safe place, the my important place, which is my family.

Was exposed is the way I felt, how old are your daughters, and they're 10 and 12 now, and how aware were they of what was going on?

Oh, very aware. Like I never heard anything from them. And the reason I didn't was because I wanted them to know. It was OK to make a mistake in life, it's OK to learn from it, but it's also OK to ask for help and not have the tools to know how to deal with something. And where did you go for help?

Well, what was really stark about it was somebody reached out to me who I knew of, but I didn't I hadn't met before. And that was John Freeman. And I asked for permission to name her today and she said that was OK. And she reached out to me a couple of weeks into this and I had a long conversation with her.

And she wasn't interested in the case that it's it's gone beyond that and said I wanted to check in, see how you are.

And I told her what was going on and. She said, you know, there is help available if you need to talk to somebody, there's help available. And I kept in touch with Joan for a long time and I'd pinch points when things got too much. I was able to pick up the phone to her and she redirected me to a couple of options that were available to me. And I availed of one of those.

And I think it's an important message to say no matter how ashamed you made, feel like no matter what mistake you make in life, like I committed no criminal offence here, I did nothing unlawful and this was in my private life. That there's a way through us. And sometimes you need help to do that, and other times you might not. But no matter what's going on, there is help out there.

Did your family have you on a kind of a suicide watch at one stage?

My family were afraid to leave me on my own. And was. I never had those thoughts, and I don't know if this makes sense. I could understand how somebody would have those thoughts. And I could recognise the loneliness and the isolation. And bearing in mind I'm surrounded by incredible people, and I still felt that loneliness and isolation and. I was fortunate that that help. Reached out to me and I didn't have to do it the other way, because you have to bear in mind, like I'm in my 40s, I'm a mom, I was a TTI.

I never thought that I would need help for my job.

And like part of my role, I used to go around to schools and talk about politics in general or women in politics or housing.

I love to talk about housing and I used to bring these notepads with me and a pen and on those notepads would be like contact numbers, useful numbers, but they'd be organisations like PETA, like Aware spun out so that I kind of always thought young students, that if they didn't want to ask somebody where to go, what to do, that, you know, it's handy for them to contact and never did, I think in a million years handing those out.

What I need those numbers. Yeah, that was not on my radar scope, is who you were, you were this successful, outgoing functioning person and you just never thought this.

Well, my foundation is so solid. Like what's important to me is my family, like, my family was always first. And so my attitude was always, you cannot replace your family. You know, I was 16 years as an elected representative. I loved it. And people can have differing opinions about different politicians and I totally get that. But this was a 16 year career disappearing in front of my eyes at the same time that my father was disappearing.

Can you understand why you were deselected, I mean, here you had a government who was on this major campaign about the insurance industry and awards and the insurance industry and kind of vexatious claims and everything. And optically and the kind of attention you were attracting was disastrous. Yeah.

And I don't want to talk too much about that side because I don't want to attract from the message. And the message is that there's help out there for people no matter your background. But I wasn't deselected. I was deleted. And I think that word is says more than anything, I had already been sanctioned, I apologise countless times and. I asked for a valid reason for that deletion, and I still to this day, I haven't been given a valid reason because I look, I had done polls, I knew I'd been damaged, but I've still got a shot at getting a seat.

And unfortunately, I have been deleted. The choice of the people was taken away. OK, you got that word you use, they're delicious.

It sounds almost like cancelled because we have now a lot of talk about this council culture. I Caroline Flack was a television presenter who her personal life and issues in it became very public and in the throes of all that. She took her own life. I believe it really hit home with you, her death and her death.

Yes, because the tragic circumstances and you know.

I could understand the whole she probably felt she was in, but. It was an interview that I heard where somebody said on that interview, you know, it had been very difficult for in the space of a month, there'd been a hundred articles on American.

In the space of 11 days, I was up at nearly 130 articles and front pages and. Nobody's calling that out here, it's like it's only happening over in the U.K., we're not as bad here.

And I just thought that was stark and look, I'm not saying there was a few there was some articles that were favourable to me and you've no idea how much I appreciated them and you wanted to reach out and thank somebody for them. But you were afraid that I was a trap. And do you think there was an element of sexism in it? Do you think the fact that you were a woman changed things?

I was never really a feminist. So I just you know, even though I came from a house, the girls.

No, and it was you know, it's about your ability. You do the job that you should be doing. And but do I think there's double standards in life sometimes? Yes. You know, and there's no point complaining about it. You just have to fight on and try and change that.

How? You know. Am I getting back on my feet now?

And but it doesn't leave you.

And I, to be honest, even the thought of doing an interview, I don't know if this makes sense, but I felt drained. I was nervous and. But I really think there's a stronger message out here that somebody has to call, stop and call things out when they're enough and not just for people in the public eye. I really think that, you know, we can lean on waiting on legislation to pass or dealing with the social platforms and what they need to do and their responsibility, but I think we all have a collective responsibility here.

And words matter. And nobody really understands what anybody is dealing with behind their whole door. And those words could just end up with the wrong person. And I think there's a massive difference now. Also, just moving away slightly from when I was in school, we didn't have online and plug and phones. No phones are with people all the time. So when you go home, there's no escape from online, there's no escape from abuse or bullying.

And I think it needs to be called out. OK, so so you're not talking about any specific legislation or anything of what your purpose in doing this is really to start or to provoke the conversation around it?

Yeah. And also, you know, we have to lead by example on this. I'm not perfect, you know, but, you know, even as politicians ridiculing other politicians that shouldn't be allowed, you know, there should be structures within the party. Like I mean, I, I said it within the party a few times, and it has been said before I arrived, there was no support structure in place there for people going through a difficult time.

Hmm.

Nonetheless, you sound like you loved that job. Would you consider going back to politics?

And I didn't just love the job I really found. I found my calling. I thrived on it. I loved it.

I didn't like the public side to what you know, which is peculiar to say, but if I was to ever consider that, there'd be a lot I'd have to take into account first. And there's too many people impacted by what happened. And. And I'm not afraid to rebuild a career and start something new. That's not something that ever works for me.

You mean you mean to start something new, a new career outside of politics? Yeah. You got a job?

No, not at the minute. I said after I was delighted at that when the election happened that I would take a year and rebuild myself.

And I just spent time with my family, just my kids. And so, look, the future is bright and I always believe it's whatever you want to put your mind to and you work hard for us.

But I'm of a much stronger mindset. But I'm lucky. I got I got through it, but I didn't get through it unscathed. Yeah.

Are you a different person now or will you ever be the person you were before. Again.

I don't know the answer to that and. I'm very guarded, no. And. I'm very. And I'm. I'm a little bit nervous about certain situations now and. And you just I'm just more aware. And when things can go wrong, what can happen, so I'm of a stronger mindset, I'm more resilient than I ever was. And but I'm not afraid to fight for what I believe is right. And what I would just do it in a different way.

OK, I'm Marie Bailey, thank you very, very much. Thank you.

Brendan O'Connor on our TV Radio one.