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What is up click Bader's We have decided to do a special episode because we have a platform and we have a voice, but also because there is just so much going on right now in The Bachelor franchise that me personally, when I contacted the rest of the team, I felt like it just needed to be addressed and everybody agreed and we felt that this was going to be the best way to kind of just speak our piece, but also just make everybody aware and I'll speak for myself in this.


But like, I am not aligned exactly what is going on right now in the franchise. So I have, of course, my lovely co-host, Joe and Natasha with me. And we're just going to have a real conversation because. That's what Kookmin is, we talk about real things, how it affects our lives, how it affects the world, and we're going to be just using our voices this morning. So good morning, y'all. Good morning.


Morning. Morning. So if everybody if everybody knows what's going on with Chris Harrison, Rachel Lonzie, you guys want to break down that story? Yeah.


So Chris Harrison and Rachel Lindsey had an interview on Extra on Rachel show and she asked him about Rachel, who is on Matt Jameses season.


And there's a lot of allegations of things that came out before or when the season first started that led to, I would say, that accused her of being racist and having racist allegations.


And so Rachel Lindsey asked Chris Harrison how he felt about it and his response was just not OK.


It just it was not OK.


And in my opinion. So if you guys have to watch the interview, I mean, if you're listening to this podcast, you probably have.


But it was it was him just explaining and explaining in the whole time. You know, one thing that really stuck out to me was he kept saying, oh, people are looking into her past. People are doing this, people are doing that, and therefore she is this. Therefore she is this.


He never even said the word racist or people are accusing her of being racist or being affiliated with things that are hurtful to the black community. He can't even say it. And that that was like you. What is this that you're talking about?


So that was that was a big problem for me. But how did you feel?


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Visit Madisen Dash read Dotcom now to find your perfect shade. That's Madisen Dash read dotcom. I mean, I feel like this hit me on a different level, I think also just because I am the current bachelorette, if you will. The first biracial lead, and I definitely will say watching that interview, my eyes were kind of they were wide open. My job was coming to the floor just because it was an ongoing conversation that was just filled with so much defense.


And what I feel is ignorance. And to be clear. Really, I think all everybody was looking for was a little bit of accountability in the sense of just saying the images I ever like have come out the wrong at. The bottom line is that they're wrong. There was no sense of like, you know, I'm. What she did was wrong, and I feel bad that Bachelor Nation is going through this and that this is making a lot of people feel attacked in a way, and that wasn't what happened.


In fact, it was like turned around on Rachel Lindsey to be. The person that should be calling it racist or saying that it is wrong and saying, you know, this is not right and I feel so bad for Rachel for having to. You put on the spot like that. I feel like her composure and the way that she conducted that interview was not because she didn't feel. Angry or frustrated in any way, it's because she had to conduct herself that way or else the message would be lost if she were to show her anger.


So I just it was it was a really eye opening conversation, and I'm really, truly disappointed. To say the least. Joe, what about you as a as a white male watching the interview, how did you feel?


OK, so I'm going to go back as far as. The photos of like, you know, like this old antebellum party. I didn't really even know what it was like. I mean, I knew the time period, so I'd look it up and it's. A party on a plantation, and when I think when I hear a plantation, I do I think slavery in its before pre civil war. So I think in in my circle and where I'm from, like, I've never like these parties don't exist.


So I'm like, OK, that's pretty. Like if one of my friends call me up and said, hey, you want to go to a party on a plantation, we're going to dress pre civil war. That's pretty fucked up regardless what year it is. So I think any party. That's going to glorify slavery or racism is just wrong, and I think it's wrong no matter what, if it happened now or if it happened in the 1970s, just it's just fucked up.


Really? Yeah. So, I mean, that's just I mean, that's just kind of how I look at it as far as Chris Harrison is concerned. Yeah, I mean, he's the host of the show. I definitely think he came across ignorant. I think I mean, he apologized. Is that good enough? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how I would feel if I was a black person because I'm not. So.


Yeah. I do I do think that this doesn't make it right. I would say there's a good chance the lead of the show and I do feel for right now because I feel like he's got to be going through a ton. I think there's a good chance he could be in love with this girl. So I think the defense, Chris Harrison's defense probably factors that in does it make it right? No, but I'm assuming it does. So, yeah, you know, I don't know.


I don't know as far as like he's concerned. Yeah, and that's like that's kind of where I'm at with that. Yeah, and you mentioned not OK, and in twenty eighteen, OK, in nineteen seventy and even Chris Harrison said there were things that I did back then that that isn't OK today. But the biggest message for me in this whole thing is yeah it wasn't OK in nineteen seventy in the nineteen seventies either to black people and the, the point that he was trying to make how you know the police, who we who they are now and all these things about 20, 20 and it being 2020 was eye opening for a lot of non black people, like it was eye opening to racism to a lot of people in this country because they were forced to to see things.


But to black people, that's not 20/20 was just business as usual. Exactly.


Like it was like, oh, so now people recognize that what we've been saying for so long and what we live with and still even still so many people are like, well, but but but in all these books that are still coming up and don't get me wrong there, we have gained so many allies and so many people and there are so many people in the bachelor world who reach out to me as well when all of this all these things came out.


But it's just sad to me because it's like. You know, we're a part of this franchise and, you know, people can't help but to feel like Matt James and even you Taisha to a certain extent was a Band-Aid. Once they when they got so much heat about about not having a black bachelor, only having one black bachelorette and and then but at this end. So it's like, OK, well, we'll give you this. And still it's like racism is it's a cancer that keeps plaguing this franchise.


And I don't understand why. And and of course, no one can vet all these contestants and these things that come up in these things that happen. But hearing the way that Chris Harrison spoke on this interview, I mean, like like I'm like getting I'm getting emotional right now because it was, you know, we want to be proud to have a voice and to share our feelings and into and we go on a show and then you don't know what's going to happen afterwards.


We have these huge platforms now and people look to us to see how we feel, especially on our podcast, but in social media and everything and. How can we defend a franchise when the head of the franchise is saying these things, so it was very wanted that he gave an apology, he did not wait six weeks to give an apology and whatever that kind of time. Well, well, but you know what I mean. Yeah, but but in speaking to.


But he knew that it was wrong when people did so. Yeah. So, you know. The WOAK police or whatever you want to call it, if you know, if you don't say how you feel, people can never correct it. And accountability is so important. And that's all people say, like no one no one saying like, oh, you're racist, we're going to kill. You know, it's like be accountable for your actions and understand that there's certain things that you that's just not OK.


Listen. Slavery was not OK. I understand that it happened in this country, but it was it was never OK. It was never OK to enslave people and make them work for free. And in the way that our ancestors were brought to this country, it was not OK. Even though it happened, even though presidents had slaves and all these different things, it still was not OK ever to people of color, to black people. Right. So in in I say I said earlier that racism is like a cancer in this franchise in the worst part about cancer, as most people don't know that they have it until it's too late.


And it was like he's saying all these things on this interview and then it was too late. Right. And and I'm not saying that, of course, every person is racist. I'm not even saying that Chris Harrison is racist. I'm not trying to say that. But the age mentality, we got at least like twenty twenty said, hey, guys, if you're not getting with the times, then then your time is going to be very short in these on these platforms.


So I appreciate his apology. I do believe that he probably was like, whoa, because he was looking at it, like Joe said, defending a person who may or may not be in love or be with I mean, he did drop he did drop some tea that she's not with the women to. So we know she makes a hometown at least, you know, so she could she could very well be that.


But at the same time. He's not thinking about it in the sense of the people that she is offending and that she has offended and the people watching this show. Yeah, the problem and that is in the end, those are the people who want the grace. Those are the people who want an answer and want someone to just hold accountability, have accountability. Now, did you guys see that? She said she finally put out a an apology after all of this.


Yeah. What are you guys what do you guys think about that, the fact that she admits it?


I think yeah. I mean, I don't know. Obviously, it should have happened sooner. I but I don't know everybody. Everyone's different. Yeah. I for me and I don't know there are things keep going. Yeah.


I actually I wanted to ask you Tatia, but I don't want to get off of the racial stuff that Jack put back on the Chris Harrison. Yeah. Only because you lead I think leads the show. I know there's a lot of people like I've met him a few times. He's always been very nice to me. But I'm not like also concerned because I just never spent really any time with him. I don't know if I have the cash. I just never have.


I was never really part of my bachelor journey. But I'm assuming he's part was part of yours, right? Yeah. And actually get outside the franchise, him and I have actually formed a friendship and. Yeah, I actually do have I've had a great time with Chris here in the past, and I think that's why that I felt so saddened by this entire interview, because it just like when I said it a different way, it's because it's like.


You wouldn't would you defend would you defend mail? Would you come to my defense if someone did this to me, like being your friend, you know?


Yeah. Do you think you would? To be honest with you. Yes, but that innervate interview kind of made me feel a different type of way. I mean, that was like your chance to do that and. To be honest, that's why I'm sad about it, but we all do, we all make mistakes and we all do things. And that's why I keep saying I think it's the defense of the continued defensiveness, which is the problem.


He could have started that, like started seeing like how Rachel is like, OK, but this and that and this and that. And he could have been like, you know what, you're right. Like, this is this is wrong. And I'm sorry that you feel this way. And I think that he could have just stopped it right then and there.


But instead, it went on for 20 minutes. Yeah. He tried to justify it. Yeah. And so I and I, I know Chris has a really good heart.


And I know at the end of the day and I do love him as a friend, but I think that in this this is a very big learning experience.


So my question is, as a friend, what you need to hear from him personally, do you need anything from him personally? Have you talked to him? Is the written apology enough for you? Is it not enough? Like what do you do for at least two? You continue with that friendship. A message even saying, like, if this has offended you, if my words and my actions have offended you within this interview, that I'm sorry, because that's not what I was intending to do.


It would just be. An apology, because at the same time, you know. We have had conversations about race in the past. I think a big thing of this, too, is there's a thing in the franchise of like protecting people, you know, in trying to protect people when things happen. And I think that's probably just from the area of what he was thinking about, like, oh, how can we protect this person because she's getting reamed on social media or she's this or that.


And, you know, the bullying, that's one thing, right, when people are trying to protect people from that. But it's another thing when there is you know, we have to how do we have teachable moments if we're just protecting everybody? If we can't talk about things, if we can't if we can't say, oh, well, you know, call a spade a spade really and call it what it is. And, you know, what do you think it's like?


Yeah, the interview could have a very different way if he wasn't, at least in my opinion. It seemed like he was sort of trying to protect her in a way. And what do you think about what's happening, Rachel? I think Rachel needs to say something soon, and that could have been in it.


And I think we had to hear that. Rachel.


Yeah, I think we need to hear from her. I think she needs to speak up for her actions and what people in the allegations that people are giving her saying about her.


I think as a franchise, we don't condone this kind of behavior that has come forth, you know? I mean.


Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And we will say something when once she said whatever, and I did agree with him when he said that he they didn't want to say anything on her behalf, but he kind of did, you know, it was like he kind of did. And I'm glad you brought up politics, though, briefly, because. That also is a big thing that he talked about, he talked about people going into her, her parents and being Republican and all this stuff, and I don't know who is to blame or what party is to blame for people thinking that Black Lives Matter is actually a Democratic thing.


Like if people are saying black lives matter, that should not be democratic, that should not be Republican. It's the same thing with people who are religious. When did that become a Republican or Democratic thing? I voted Democratic and I'm also a Christian. Like you can be both. You can also think that Black Lives Matter and also be Republican. I'm I'm I'm so done with people thinking that caring about black lives. If you are a Republican, that's going against your views.


No humans. I'm so happy you're saying that because it's just that's so frustrating because it's like, first of all, there's black people that are Republicans.


Yes. Yes. It's just like it's like all of a sudden it turned into this thing where it was like, if you're a Republican, you're a you're a racist. Listen, now you're wrong to regret. It was never it. Racism is wrong. I mean, it's it's it's as simple as that. And there are people that are racist and there are people that are going to continue to be racist because that's just what it is. I mean, it's a big country.


It's a big world. It's a big population and. If people were just raised differently and it's fucked up, but that's what the fight against is racism. But yeah, turning it into like this political battle always. It almost like deteriorates from, like, the real me. Exactly. And then racist. Exactly. That and that is the biggest thing that I you know, there's always something that's trying to deter people from being progressive. It's like, oh, black people want people to care about black lives.


Oh, well, just Democrats. Like what? No, no, that's not that's that's not a thing. All Republicans are not bad. All Democrats are not good like all, and vice versa. It's just it's not there are some racist Democrats, too, I'm sure of it. You know what I mean? So it's not it's not this this whole thing, it just has to stop. And also, I wanted to bring up two.


There's a lot of things that happen online, like when all these things happen in Bachelor Nation. Right. There's been many, many topics about racism happening.


And when these things happen online, people are messaging and saying, well, why haven't you said anything and why haven't you this and why haven't you gotten it's almost like a level of, you know, the Bachelor Nation fans almost bullying The Bachelor Nation people into saying this or saying that. I personally choose always if there's something about race. I mean, I'm a black woman, so I get riled up, I get angry and I and I look at all the brown and black women and just people, men as well, who watch the show.


And I feel an obligation to speak up because they are like, should I be watching the show?


Should I even be? Because it's that that's where that's where we get we get to this point where it's like, do we even continue to to be to watch this? And so there's people like me. There's people like you. Tatia as the former bachelorette as well. And that's why, you know, having conversations with Rachel Lindsey, Rachel Lindsey is just like I'm tired of being the the main one who is speaking on these issues. And I understand that.


And I get that she has until, you know, she was the biggest platform of a minority bachelorette or I mean, bachelor two. Now that I guess Matt James is here. But it's just how do you guys feel about when these things come about on social media? Like Joe, I know you said you had no idea even what was going on. You're enjoying your weekend and doing your thing and you weren't even in this whole world and seeing what was going on on social media.


How do you guys feel when people message you and say, what about this and what about that? And how why haven't you said this? Why haven't you said that? Yeah, I mean, I've gotten I've gotten some messages already saying, why aren't you sticking up for your co-hosts and for me?




I choose to ignore all the messages at this point because I talk to you guys already. Before I even saw those messages, I had spoken to you and we decided this is how we wanted to go about it. So I also. I don't know. I want to always be real and be real to myself, and I don't want to speak because I'm worried what people are going to think about me, and I think that happens a lot. And I think that happens a lot in the nation.


I think it happens a lot. So I think people feel the need to like, oh, I better say something or people are going to think I'm racist. Like, Oh, Joe should have came out and said something as soon as Chris did that, like. But let me talk to my co-host first and see how they want to go about it and we go about it on our own time. There's no like, you know, that's how I feel.


Yeah. I mean, I don't know. How do you guys feel? I. First of all. You should not be telling anybody as to when they should be speaking on anything.


People need to be able to speak it, speak their own truth when they feel comfortable to do so, but in an appropriate time. I think going back to Rachel, it was six weeks ago when all this started coming out. And to Rachel on this point, if none of this was true, my name was attached to that, I would come out swinging first, like right after all these allegations were being made because it's not true. I wouldn't want my name attached to any of that.


But the silence kind of made it sort of true. Right.


But when you're trying to provoke someone to. Speak on something, asking for their opinion and their take on things. What if it takes them a minute to understand how they feel and how it affects them? I don't I I truly think that when you kind of just do a knee jerk reaction, you end up putting your foot in your mouth like some people most recently, because they don't decide to listen and they don't decide to educate themselves and they don't decide to just.


Come up with, I don't know, and an explanation as to how this is affecting them.


Me, myself, one that was just it it feels empty and feels forced.


It feels like feel that they're genuine in that comes across. And everybody can tell you for you.


You mean for for who when people are forced to say something. When people when people feel that they're forced to say something, then they just say. OK, OK. That way. I mean, it depends I my opinion depends on what it is and what and who it is. I mean, for me personally, like. When I mean. Immediately, I mean, I could after I saw this after I saw this interview, I could have did a life I could have talked for an hour about how I felt, you know what I mean?


Yeah. But at the same time, it's not I don't feel obligated at all in the sense that I have to or else my obligation, in my opinion, is for all of my followers that I engage with all the time, who tell me things, who message me and say as a black woman, as a darker skinned black woman, as this, as that watching you on the show or and I I always want a champion for those people.


Yes. But also there's. You know. There's a level of peace as well, if I maybe if I were on a weekend trip somewhere, maybe that that has happened before, where things have happened in the babbler nation. And I was in the Hamptons and I was enjoying my weekend and I did not say something right away because I wanted to be president where I am. And people have to understand to any time during Black Lives Matter, when the riots were happening and all the the protests and I was out there doing all these things, it's a lot of energy.


I would come home and cry for hours because of the things that I'm seeing on social media. And it's a lot. So if I don't say something, guess what? It's because, yeah, I need a moment.


But everyone who follows me knows that I've been very vocal about how I feel on these subjects in these matters. And even I will still do people and people will do me and I'll give them back. And, you know, people ask me all the time, how does it feel to be someone of color in this nation? And, you know, and I measured them back sometimes, but. It's not all bad, I just think that when we we are gifted with these platforms and when we feel a certain type of way and it's just my personal opinion, I think it is more important to say something for the for the voiceless, in my opinion.


But if you don't feel called to do that, then, yes, it could feel empty. If you're just like this happened, let me make an opportunity out of it.


Yeah, right. And I see a lot of that person. Yeah, yeah.


Yeah. And that's what and that's where to I talked to I spoke with Nick and he was just like it's he's like I'm a white man. Yeah.


I'm going to come on here and be like your mom. And so he also feels like it's time for me to listen. It's a time for me to listen. And I and I appreciate that. And people don't have to know that. He doesn't have to call me and put it on his podcast and do this and do it like he doesn't have to, like, say all these things. He can just it can be. I know he talks to Rachel Lindsey a lot as well, you know.


So all I'm saying is, is that people don't know what happens behind closed doors. It's just. When we speak out about things, I mean, the thing that I even said on social media was was barely a lot. It was just acknowledgement that this is some FTF shit that just happened. And I want you all to know that I think it's left up to right, like I need to go in. I think it's also wrong.


Like in the past I have said, you know. Saying things on social media, and then I would get messages saying like, oh God, you were such a good bachelor until you started opening your mouth about race or so you started talking about politics. Are you joking? I got hundreds of those messages. Oh, now. But but I mean, like, it's people who are on social media. But like these are white people saying that black people saying this, like who?


Yes, I have a lot of messages, oh, this one's in unfollow like I. When was this? That happened last. What were we talking about, maybe like a month ago about when it was regarding that and we had released a statement saying something had shown up? Oh, it was about the riots. I was about reading the capital times.


And I had spoken about this just showing that are people even listening like our people? What is happening with the world? Like we just need so much unity and we're in trouble. And I was just met with a lot of anger. And so it's just so funny. Yeah, go ahead, but no, it's just funny because it's like you realize that I'm African-American and Mexican, right? That's what you're following. Right. So if I'm going to have it.


Yeah, apparently not. Although I'm going to have an opinion about something and it's going to makes me feel some type of way. And the fact that you're then trying to put me down because I'm just going to tell you that I'm uncomfortable with it and this makes me hurt. And I feel and I didn't say anything.


I mean, I just said we work when you do a lot of work and there's still a lot to be done and a lot of knowledge to be learned. And this is like, oh, you were so much better when you didn't have your mouth open. This definitely warrants in unfollowed because you just have to bring race and politics into it. Oh, I have. I've had a lot of those. I don't think you could take I think you just can't pay attention.


Absolutely not. Negative messages and and even the positive ones. And this is not the very off the subject. But I just think just I look at social media as just do your thing, do you and don't pay attention to the negative comments or those super positive ones because they go hand in hand. So you are and do your best.


But I guess this is what it means so much in. If he were to just acknowledge the fact that this was wrong, because I feel like it's giving those people that message may even like a voice. Mm hmm. Yeah. And it gives them a place to be like, see? The Chris Harrison citizen feels as though swingometer hold on a second.


Yeah. Oh yeah. No, it's not show. It's like it's not show her grace. It's it's like a held hold her accountable. That's it. Hold her accountable for her actions, you know. And when you go on a TV show and I will say she is young and I'm not trying to I'm not trying to excuse her behavior at all because she is young, but that is to all future contestants as well. It's like you go on a TV show, your life will be blasted on to so many levels because of social media.


You have to be ready to, one, hold yourself accountable and or be ready to take it for your actions and the things that you have said or done in the past. You know, and we have to we have to be able to do that. And I, of course, was a lot older when I went on the show. So when people would come to me and say things or whatever I was, I was ready to to defend myself.


But that is something that the Internet trolls are it's a lot on both sides, positive and negative, like you said, positive and negative. It's a lot of energy. It's a lot of things to take in. But the people who messaged you to who, Ted, who said that you should just shut your mouth, that's exactly what people who are in agreement, in my opinion, with racism want. They want black people to not have a voice.


They want you to be silenced. They do not want you to say how you feel, because that will influence other people into thinking how you think possibly and how you think is, oh, it's wrong to write a capital. And it is. Right. So that is that is so let's let's quiet and let's hush the black people. Even I was talking to my sister about this and it goes so deep and it's so deep and people just don't understand because when you think about certain words like black people, a lot of black people say ax instead of ask.


Right. People are like, why do you guys Latinos pronounce things so weird? We weren't allowed to read. Slaves were not allowed to learn how to read, so that gets trampled down and down and down. So when people have these different words in their vernacular, it's go so deep into that. And so now that you are an educated black woman, mixed woman, whatever you want to call it, you have a platform to seek to speak and say whatever you want and influence people.


And there are people who don't want you to. And I recognize that. And so that's why I say whatever I want to say on my platform, because there are people who are like, wow, I didn't think about it like that. Even our hair segment, people were like, oh, I never thought about it like that with going to the gym and just walking in with my wet hair. Never thought about that, right? When I wash my hair, it's all curly.


I got to straighten it, you know. I mean, they never think about that. So having that platform and talking about these different things, I just think it's so important. And for the people who want to silence you, ask them so I can say, yes, I agree, do your thing.


So I just I think that's why, again, I'm just going to bring it back to this whole thing as to why we're having the podcast is just watching that interview. I felt like Rachel was in a way trying to be silenced for bringing up these issues. And that resonated with me, because when I do feel something and I and I've been told all along that say something about this, and then when I do say it, like the other half is like, screw you.


You were so much prettier when you didn't talk. And it's like, I'm sorry, hold on a second. It's so funny because the message above that it was like, you are such a fantastic individual. I find you so amazing and there's so much to learn from you and Bubba, whatever it may be. And so when I was watching this interview, it just felt like. We're a part of a bigger issue. There's so much more in this franchise that I don't actually I'm not aligned with.


So we got apologies from Chris, we got apologies from Rachel. And then we also saw this really encouraging message from the women of the season, from the women from Bachelor season twenty five.


They put out a message and they basically said, we are we do not stand for this. You know, we are black, indigenous and people of color in this franchise. And we are we just we denounce. We do not we are not here for racism. And it was a strong message. They also really they mentioned Rachel Lindsey as well, because they recognize how hard it probably was for her. And I thought they was just very powerful. I thought it was very powerful that they all came together, all of them.


And I mean, even everybody knows that I know her. Shoot me and her had a very long conversation and also about everything that's happening and what's going on. And she was one of the first people that I saw. Well, because I follow her, too. But that just put out a message just on her own. Also her mom, which was great, but. Just them coming together and putting and making that unison, all the hate, all the whatever that was going on, the bullying, it's like when it comes down to it, they they came together.


And that's what we want this country to do. It's like this country can come together for a lot of things, but we still can't come together for racism. It's it's it's sad. What did you guys think about it? Well, I feel like No one, I'm just so happy that they called her out or Rachel specifically and just said, like, you are not alone. Yeah, because she's not. And I even spoke to Rachel yesterday.


And to be honest with you, I thanked her because, I mean, I am where I am. My experiences were my experiences because of her. I mean, my bachelor experience was ten times. Better than Rachels because she was the trailblazer as being the first black bachelorette, and also I had way more resources than she did, and so none of that would have been possible if she wasn't The Bachelorette before. And she had such a loud voice and said, like, now, like, hi, I need some I need some things here.


I'm not feeling hurt and I'm not feeling like I could be understood in this franchise. And so the fact that these girls were able to also say, like, thank you so much for trailblazing and we stand behind you and you are not alone. It was amazing to me and I've never seen any of the girls do anything like this before.


Yeah. And so it was really, really it was really powerful. I saw that and it made me really teary eyed.


Mm hmm. Did you see that, Joe?


Yeah, I thought it was great. I also want to say thank you to you guys because I am out of town and I know this was a timely podcast. And there was the idea of possibly just doing it to you guys want to do that? You want to do it without me. And I appreciate that.


Yeah. So, yeah, it's cool.


So where do we go, guys? Where do we go from here? Do we do we accept these apologies? How do we feel that we can say things can get better? How do we how do we continue to hold people accountable. What what you what are your thoughts? Well. I think we should definitely continue to. Hold people accountable for the actions. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that. I don't think that tearing somebody down is a good idea.


But it's been like, hey, what you're doing here was wrong and I would love for you to, I don't know, acknowledge. I just apologize for what you just did because it made me feel some type of way. And people are allowed to do that. But I don't I never condone cancel culture, whatever the hell that is, and all that kind of stuff, how we can move forward. Well, I think at first I think we're going to need to hear from.


The franchise as a whole and not standing for racism, to be honest and making bigot just because you have a black lead or a few of them doesn't mean that you're not racist. So. No, no, I agree. I think everything she says makes more sense. Yeah, I I'm going to take it just a little step further and I'm going to say that, yes, putting a black lead feels like especially now a bandaid making a black lead.


And then if he actually picks this person who is accused of being racist, it's like we can't make this shit up. Like it's just wild.


Actually, I really and I'm not one to ever really, like, feel bad for any contestants on the show just because it's like we we went on a reality show. Right. I actually really do feel for that because it does feel like, yeah, that was became the first black bachelor because of what was going on in the world that he gets thrown into this hole, that, you know, how crazy bachelor is to begin with. And now with everything else that's going on, like how is this guy like how is this even fair for him?


How is this even and is the fact love?


So, yeah, for him and there's one thing that he did say that I did agree with, and I don't think The Bachelor franchise should be responsible for saying sorry for every single thing that people have done in the past. And I completely agree with Chris on that. And I'm not saying like, no, you need to take back everybody's actions that they did 10 years ago now. But when things keep coming up and their current contestant and to the point where it's.


This race is in controversal and there's a lot of people that feel a type of way about it, I think that it's time for them to step up and say something.


Yeah, well, at this point, it's really just Chris saying something or The Bachelor and The Bachelor franchise saying something about the things that Chris said. And I think that having just a black bachelor is not enough. I think it goes I mean, I was on the show and there were not a lot of producers that were black that were not you know, it goes from the top to the bottom of where I'm where it is, you know.


So I'm saying that that just overall, if we want if this show if the franchise is actually saying they really want to turn another leave, they really do have to incorporate color in all facets. That's from the top to the bottom and not just the lead in that in not just the movie I was lead.


And I will say that I did see some differences from when I was on the show, so. You mean in producers and stuff like it as a. Producer or I mean, there are there are a lot of people of minorities, but I feel like it's just the knowledge behind it and just having the resources. I mean, the fact that I had a day by day versity team was spoke volumes because I was the first one to ever have one.


Yeah, I was going to say where it was the first one to have one. So I understand that. I see what you're saying. And I and I agree that there needs to be a change. But I also know that it's not going to happen overnight. And I do want to acknowledge the fact that there are some changes being made.


But that's good. Yeah.


I mean, well, it felt like Matt was the bachelor overnight.


So he and I think he definitely was it was a knee jerk reaction, which is when I completely one thousand percent agree with you. But as a lead, I will say it versus being a contestant. I was shocked when I found out that I had a diversity team that I'm able to still call on to this day and get help. That's very just like and Zach utilizes them as well. So, look, I'm just saying, because I've seen that side, I will also say I have seen a change in that regard.


But sure, there definitely still needs to be a lot more work. That's all I'm saying.


And I think that's how I think that's how we in this thing. You know, I don't know if you guys have any other last words, but there's something that I forgot. I'll say it on my social media.


But, you know, that's just that I'm glad that we could put this out there and say how we feel. And I hope it gives some people I hope people know that we are we recognize this and it's a problem. And we and we want people to be held accountable and there's nothing wrong. And if you are a person out there, you have done things and been a part of things and I'm sure is not the only person in the world who've done things that they regret.


Accountability and apology is all people want, real life is to do better in the future.


Yes, life is a learning experience. You're not always getting everything right. That's not always and that's not what I'm saying. This is to take accountability for your actions. A man. All right. Well, thank you, listeners, for tuning in to a special episode today.


Thank you, guys. We always appreciate you. Make sure to check us out on social and like TMOS, you know where to find us. I clicked on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Share your stories with us. We want to hear your click bait every week. Thank you, guys. And subscribe to our podcast on Apple podcast, Spotify, the Wondrous App or whatever, you guys are listening now. We are here for you and that's do better teachable moments.


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