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What's up, everyone? Welcome back to another episode of Click Bait. Like usual, we are going to do a Bachelor Nation breakdown and then we have our Click Feed of the Week relationship goals for twenty twenty one. And our special guest, Graham Bourne, he is a bachelor alum. But you know what? Let's just get right into it. All right. Let's do the bachelor break down. Teisha, you ready? I am ready.


So we have some interesting tea, but I'm sure you guys all saw Sarah trought excited this week from The Bachelor. It was a juicy, juicy, dramatic exit, but it looks like Sarah is actually doing pretty well because we just saw her out and about with Mr. G. Eazy himself. So what do you guys think about that? Well, first, let's talk about our exit, right?


Because Matt clearly is into her like he did not want her to leave.


Like you completely agree he was pushing for.


It seemed like she was into him, too. But she was crying the whole time she got bullied by the girls.


There's no doubt about that. Right? I mean, would you guys have taken part in that if you were on the show? Because they kind of bullied her at the end, bringing her down like that?


No, I don't do. I will say that a lot. I will say that I saw both sides of it. I definitely saw both. I mean, she isolated herself. I'm not justifying what the girls did, but I'm also saying that she kind of instead of letting people know that she was having a hard time, she isolated herself. And the only time that they did see her was when she interrupted their group date. You know, like that's why I would have been pissed, just like Katie was pissed.


I would have been pissed at that whole situation. And you interrupt a group date, guess what? If she would have interrupted a one on one, she would have had beef with one person. You into a group. Jamie got beef with eight girls, ten girls, however many girls on thing right now, people know by now it's like not a good idea to interrupt a group date.


It's just it's right. It's just it's just it's it's a hard thing. But also, I get the side where it's like you don't you're having a hard time and you want to talk to your man. You want to talk to your boyfriend about your hard time. So I get why she wanted to only talk to Matt and not necessarily open up to the other girls as well. But it's one of those things that if you for my size and if you're one of those people that you just go after it and you just run over other girls, people are going to be pissed off about that.


There is a certain type of sort of I don't want to say etiquette, but there is a roast ceremony. You're going to get a chance to talk to him. I mean, you're courting teen in college. You're not going anywhere easy going anywhere.


You don't always get a chance to talk about or talk to the bully or bachelorette. But in her case, she party. But in her in her situation, she had had a one on one. She had I mean, someone like her, I feel like why wouldn't she get a chance to talk to him? Because they've already established the deep relationship. You know, something the show does is that I love is there's really no rules, right? You could just go for it.


You can go for it. But what I'm saying is, is I agree with that. But when you go for it and you have to live in a house with a group of people, then you're going to catch that fire at no one's going to be like, hey, it's OK that you just had all this time with him and now you're taking all my time to. It's fine. Don't like I don't like that much. I like his muzzle that much.


Go ahead girl. Do it one day.


Like to hear her out saying I hope your living situation with Matt is just fine because your living situation with us is now. Yeah.


She should she should have backed up what she that she should have just went on there. I'm like yeah I'm going to like that's why I really enjoyed listening to the Queen Victoria because she backs up her shit talking like she's like, I'm I'm calling you out. I don't give a fuck. I'm going to say what's on my mind. I appreciate that. And it's fun to watch.


So, by the way, with the whole thing and it's so crazy how that, like you said, should the Internet just runs with how you see one picture. Now they're married. They're basically married there. And they were married. They got divorced. They had three kids. You know, the whole thing happened because they had one picture together. Right. But I mean, this was a long time ago. They didn't have a mask on. So I'm assuming this happened years ago or before the quarantine at least.


So, you know, the way she went home, we we really hope that her father's doing OK. It was very sad. And it questions if she probably felt like she might not have should have come to the show anyway, knowing that her dad was in this position. But it was a rough episode to watch. And I definitely think that regardless, we're wishing Sarah well in her family and sending them love.


I think she made the right move. You know, I didn't really understand it. I probably never will. I'll probably never talk to her.


So I don't I don't know what happened there, but I think she made the right choice. I got it. I think a lot of people, they have a lot of opinions as to what you should be doing in the situation, but nobody really knows what it's like to actually be there and make those decisions and know how you're going to feel. So I think she did the right thing for herself. Yeah.


And all the people that are online saying all these things back and forth, it's like until you're in that situation, you don't know how you're going to hear it. Yeah. You're not you don't know how you're gonna react. So you could have been Sarah you could have been one of the girls saying stuff to her. You don't know what you're going to do exactly.


Well, another thing that the Internet is talking about is the fact that Queen Victoria was, quote unquote planted from ABC. The is she is a producer plan, which this is something I have actually never heard of before. But, Natasha, you said that actually people thought you were possibly a producer plan, is that right? Yeah. And that means this is the worst. It's the worst. It's the worst. It's the worst. It's it's like, well, in my case, because I was like clearly the only person that called him out on his stuff early on, like when Peter would do just wild stuff, we were like old white heat.


When the whole Hanabi date happened, I was like, hold on, wait a second. And I was kind of the only person that spoke up. So people were like, oh no, she is talking to him, how late? But she's actually questioning him. Wait, what. Oh she has to be a producer. And I was like, no, I got so many DM's about people saying to me, oh my gosh, are you a producer plant?


Because they knew that I knew a producer on the show. He she happened to be Peter's producer and they just thought for whatever reason, I was hired to be on the show because I would call him out on his B.S. and I was like, no, no, no, this is just me. That's how I am. That's what I'm thinking.


Like, why would ABC even first of all, everybody that watches the show knows there are producers on set. I mean, this is the way the show works. So why would you feel the need to also add a producer plant? It makes absolutely no sense. And I think Victoria, I say, is hilarious.


I'm actually like I was shipping Victoria. I was crazy about it because I'm also like starting to watch the show. I mean, I've watched it for a few seasons now, but I guess I'm getting into it. I'm like part of Bachelor Nation, but she's fucking funny.


I mean, we have one of the most dramatic shows on television. Do you really think that we need the producer to caused more drama in house? I don't think so. I think we're fine. We're doing just fine.


Where did it come from this? Did they do this on other shows or something? Like where does this mindset even come from?


I don't know. I think people start acting like pretty radical, like doesn't seem normal at all. But the thing is, there are some people that do some crazy stuff outside of then are not filmed on television and she's just being herself.


Yeah, I'm just I'm going to say this. I used to work on the Dr. Phil show. Listen, people are just wild, OK? People are like. They feel like people are what some people are wild, so I don't know why they think that either. Would you would you be a producer plant or do you think you'd be a go? And I think I'd be really good. I would love that job.


No, I would not do that. I guarantee you I would fall in love the damn person like. Have you seen that movie Failure to launch? Like, how she's like trying to get him to move out and falling in love with him? That would be me. So, no, it wouldn't work out for me.


So for our listeners to pick up on if you haven't noticed, Taisha always references Matthew McConaughey movies.


It's just something she always does when or what would happen to the best because he got big. I was lying when I said he is actually my husband. I'm in love with that man.


Well, because Zach reminds me of him, so. Yeah, it really does. Never mind. I want to talk about art anyway.


So I want to tell you what is the role play is that's actually a very good idea.


But no, I will say you showering the other day and when he looked up at one point I was like, oh my God, you really do look like him.


It's always you were like you were like Matthew.


I mean, Zach, I swear if I actually called him Matthew, I would be in so much trouble. All right. I know. I know. I know. You guys don't. You know, I know you guys don't dabble in role play or I don't know.


But if you were OK and you have to choose Zach to be a Matthew McConaughey character, any of his movies.


Oh, what movie?


Oh, hands down. How to lose a guy in ten days. OK, so how not like a little motorcycle thing. Like I don't know, I like his like you know, and he's just like and he's like fast yourself. I don't know. He's hot.


You hear that. You hear this. That's the way to her heart. A motorcycle. You know what I'm saying.


Anyway, let's go back to the other guy. Last but not least, Natasha, you're in New York. Yeah, I'm not in New York. And apparently Peter is now in New York. Apparently, New York is a new hotspot for Bachelor Nation a lot.


Yeah, a lot of guys from your season is here to exact so many of us now. I'm actually quite surprised we haven't even ran into each other. But with this, I'm just wondering, I'm so happy that Peter made it out here. I think it's really good for him. But also, do you think Kelly is going to be coming out here on her own as well? I know she plans on it, but she's following her ex or anything.


She's doing it for herself.


While she said it right. She said it on Instagram. She was like, you know, I'm healing my wounds in the Florida Keys chillin.


And I'm going to move to like, that's I mean, that's the least what I saw. And then she's like, I'm going to move to New York City. Peter just moved to New York City. I don't think she's following him. I think it's more of like you. I'm going to one up you like if you're going to move there, I'm going to move there, too. And I'm probably going to get a nicer place because that's what I think she's doing.


I think she's.


Oh, no, you don't think so. I don't I don't know. I just I don't know if I would want to move if I'm going to start over.


I don't know if I want to move and to do the same to the same place for my ex. I mean, maybe it wasn't such a bad breakup. Maybe it was like maybe, you know, maybe they're Cordarrelle and maybe they're fine and maybe it's not a big deal. I just fell on my season. Peter always talked about moving to New York and he said there was something that he always wanted to do. Um, but yeah, I don't I don't know that I personally would want to move to the same city, but New York's a great city.


I mean, pandemic wise, it's kind of crazy, but it's about the world. This is like the worst time to move there.


But it doesn't strike me as like an East Coast guy. He's like, what does he strike you as really? Like, yeah.


Like his he's more of like. You know, like. Softer spoken, and he seems very chill right when I see. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think I think he's a little bit more of like a city life kind of guy.


You think he's a fashion? Would you agree? Yeah, I think I don't I don't know.


I mean, you know, you may have some thoughts.


Oh. So I can I can I can tell if I make out with someone. Oh yeah. You taste like the East Coast. What was that? Tongo.


That was a long time. Or East Coast. She I mean, she does not have amnesia. I don't know what you're talking about. Listen, blink twice if it was fast.


I'm kidding.


Anyway, I mean, I'm glad that he has made the move. I hope that he stays single for a little while and just enjoys his life, you know, and do all the fun things that New York has to offer and or people offer and just be single and just enjoy life. Just do that for a little bit and then find your your person. Good luck, Peter.


You know, New York's definitely the place to be single. If I was I am single, I would move to New York.


But we really need to get you a girl anyway. And it's also a great place to be while being engaged and bicoastal and have a lot of exes in the same city. So go New York.


Yeah. All right, well, you know what, guys, I think that's I think that's all we could talk about with bachelor people. We're going to be breaking down Bachelor Nation News every single week, but I've had enough of it. Look. Let's talk about let's talk about our clip.


What do you think it means to the click of the big.


All right, so this debate is all about keeping your relationships busy with relationship goals for twenty, twenty one, because we already know what happened with twenty twenty. We know. So my favorite relationship goal that was in this click bait was the rule about practicing hearing and saying no for all the relationships like not just your partner, but with your family, with your friends. We have to really normalize hearing and also saying no just to set those boundaries. That was one of my favorites.


And that's not necessarily you would think like, oh, that's not really how you keep it spicy, but actually it is. It is because you can say, no, babe, we can't do it tonight, but we could do it tomorrow. Yeah.


Those boundaries that we need in order to make people feel good and great. How do you guys keep it spicy? Tell me.


Go with the flow in your life and just it just be in a relationship and have fun. And if you don't want to do something, just say, I don't want to do it. But you could still like I wouldn't put like for me, OK, I'm in a new relationship and I write down this is I'm going to write down 10 goals that I want to happen in my relationship. Mm hmm. To me, I just I would never do that.


Well, you don't have to make it so traditional, Joe. Yeah, OK.


It doesn't have to be so black and white. It's just the same time. I think that this is the thing.


I feel like a lot of people tend to run into a routine which makes them bored there, which then turns into a failed relationship, because then you just start getting, like, antsy. You want to go do more things. You just are in on, unquote. I hate this. I'm unhappy. I hate that in relationship. I hate people are like I'm just not happy. I want more. So make it more like figure out what spices up things.


And it doesn't have to be so crazy for me. Zach and I, we have started to like get into like some TV shows. Right now we're watching Kingdome. If you haven't seen them, it's frickin good. And that's kind of how we like and our evenings. But the other day I was like, you know, I'm not watching. Like, that's not watching them something blossom music or to some good food. And let's just, like, talk and chill.


And we started dancing around the freakin house like we had some really good conversations. And it just it's just changing it routine. That's how you spice it up, just like I don't know anything. But they're not. Be proactive. Yeah.


A lot of boardgames, the opposite of going with the flow, Joe.


OK, but I think people need to accept the fact that, like. Oh yeah, I agree with you, Taisha.


I hate when people say I'm unhappy in this relationship. It's on you to fix that.


But also. Life's not always happy and fun, like it's OK that life sucks sometimes and that, like, your relationship is the best in this moment. That's life. It's not always going to be great, but what is it?


The thing is, it's like two people have to feel that way. So if you're feeling bored and the other person isn't persay, feeling bored, what are you going to do about it? Right.


Communication, that's the most important thing. So I also feel like with the relationship, you have to be able to I think it's very important to keep two identities. You have to have like your own and then you have like when you're with your person. Yeah. And for me, it's really simple. Like, I love to go take a walk for myself. I think it's really important for me to go clear my head, be able to have a little bit of me time for about forty five minutes to an hour and then I can just go back home and I'm a better partner for my person just because I'm able to have a little time to myself, decompress and then be a better partner at home.


So like it's just little things that get to figure out. But one of the goals that I actually saw on this click bait that I actually really liked was addressing issues really early on. Yeah. Just instead of like letting things like brew and stir up, like a build up, you just kind of like let your personality like I actually really don't like that doesn't mean to be confrontational 24/7, but it's more like, look, this is kind of bothering me.


I just like it. Let me do it a different way. Can I have it? I don't know. I have an example.


Like what I want you to be honest about both, OK? Because I will as well.


But like, what's something that really bothers you at the beginning of a relationship? Like what?


Something people say when people say they're going to do something and they don't do it like, oh, hey, I'm really busy at work, I'm going to call you right after. And they don't call me until tomorrow. You still working?


You worked all night, but you don't tell me saying don't call me later because you busy. Don't say you're going to call me when you're finished with work. Like it's like that. Like do you know what I mean. Like yeah that's my thing. Like don't tell me you're going to because now I'm like I'm, I can tell my plans because now Bay is going to call me later and we going to have a whole sexy time or whatever, but blah blah like I may, I'm trying to be intentional with you, be intentional with me.


So that is something that's like when someone does that, if you say you're going to do something and you don't do it, oh, honey, you don't hear about it right away. You know, that's funny. Yeah.


For me. What about you? It's little things that I notice sometimes chewing bothers me.


Like that's like like when people say sure. Instead of yes, I don't like them. People put their towels on the floor like things like that. Like that stuff bothers me. OK, so they're a little sure.


It's that a good luck Taisha. Joe, please tell me you're not a guy that says sure.


I say sure. I said sure of course. Order time tonight. Sure. No, it's like yes I do or no I don't. Do you want to go out to a museum this weekend? Sure.


Oh so you're saying. Like being defended, have something to say as opposed to sure, I hate, OK. I hate when I know that. My girlfriend is upset about something, but she won't talk about it.


Girls do this shit all the time like I'm upset and I'm going to put on this attitude for the next six hours until you pry it out out of out of me.


So that goes along with number 10, what she said, addressing issues early. It literally. Yeah. So she's letting you hate it when she lingers and you're like, just tell me what I did. Just tell me and fix it. Yeah, yeah. And I will say for our listeners, there's this book that I literally live by. It's called Attatched by Amir Levine and Taisha and I were at a bookstore and we saw it. It is it's a it's the best book.


And this number 10 is going along with a secure if you are a secure partner in your relationship, it's not like insecure versus secure. You have to read the book to understand what I'm saying. But secure people just they just say it how it is. Hey, I didn't like this. Hey, this happened. Hey, why why wouldn't we do this instead of this? Like, they're just very up front and straightforward. It's something that I highly recommend to our listeners.


It's great. It's good. I think that's very important. So this click bait, there was one of the things in here where for the relationship goals, they basically said, OK, are you guys ready for this? I'm going to read this in my best erotica voice for you.


Are you ready? Are you ready to go?


So sometimes you eat because you're bored and sometimes you eat because you're starving. The same goes for sex, you know, when you're naturally into it versus when you're totally consumed and ready to go for it. You can't imagine not getting right to the point the second. We have to learn what we want and what our what makes our partner feel super duper turned on, and then we have to do more of that and more of that and more.


How was that guy so I said that relationship goal basically tells us that we have to learn what we want and we have to learn what our partners want, and that's communication in talking about sex freely and openly in the bedroom with your partner. So I know this kind of switched real quick, but I think that's very important relationship goals.


OK, but do you do that? Do you have that conversation before you have sex or do you have the sex? You have the foreplay, you see how it goes and then you have that conversation.


Oh, interesting, because if you if you if you have it before, then that kind of takes the mystery away from it, which could also be a lot of fun.


Yeah, no, I would say after you've had the sex, so then you're going to tell you then you're telling your partner that didn't. Well no, no, but it's all about how you present it.


It's one thing to be like don't do this, do that.


It's another thing to be like, oh, babe, how about if we try this tonight? Handcuffs, whips. I don't know.


Handcuffs. Yeah, I'm just saying, like letting them know like you like this or that or and it's all about the presentation I think. And I think correct me if I'm wrong, Joe, if a woman is trying to tell a man, let's do some kinky shit, they're going to be like, oh, what are you trying to say? Right now, he's getting so big. I wish you guys could see him.


I first of all, first of all, listen, I'm you know, I'm down. I'm down there. Come on. They have fought so hard because I'm always squirming.


I'm laughing because another big kallick made out all that was all over.


Every social media account was this Armie Hammer. Oh, the hammer.


They like what he's into and like clearly, like, I don't know what's true or what's not. So I don't want to put myself in that.


But yeah, like. If a girl like half a girls like her dirty talks, like, I want to suck your blood like crazy shit like that, because that's kind of like what was going on with them, you know, like, no, that's not what was going on.


He said, I want to rip your heart out and eat it.


Yes, I want to. I want to literally. It was not I want to suck your blood. A lot of that, too. But he also wanted to cut her up, you know that. Did you find any did anybody find that sexy? I found it very creepy. And I would have run. I've ever ran before away from this man, but he's really hot, so no, no, no, this is some weird, creepy stuff.


I don't know anybody that's into that further record.


In the height of BLM, Army was very vocal on Instagram and I messaged him about that and we talked a little bit. And he did not, for the record, say anything rude or me or nasty. He just it was a very pleasant conversation, for the record. All right.


So we're clearly we're not going to let this go. So, Natasha, is why you talk to Armie Hammer here?


Is that what's happening? I have. We have dimmed in my dreams. Was not nasty like that. They were not. When exactly was that?


Yeah, it was their potential to, like, meet up.


You know what? There was no potential to meet up. No, he didn't tell me he wanted to eat my heart or anything.


So, Tasha, if you would have told you to eat your heart, he was going to eat your heart. I would hope that you're not this casual about it.


No, no. So the click bait, we're done with Army. We're done with him.


I use that as click bait, literally. That is our click made for.


He was very nice, Natasha and Ami. He was very nice, but I clearly was not dating him.


So so I think basically I think what we've the understanding that we've come to on this podcast is that in a relationship at any point in the relationship, the most important thing is communication. Yes. Don't be scared to do it, because that is how you are going to grow as a couple, as a person as. And in life, yes, Joe, a great deal. Also, if you're unhappy in a fix it man tried it. Yes.


Try little something. Something. Yes, get fixed. Get to get to the root of it.


Why are you unhappy? Why are you put putting up with this. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yes. Yes, Joe.


I mean if you're having trouble fixing it and you want our advice, do the most will talk about it. OK, guys, we could obviously talk about this click bait all day long, but it is time for our guest. We have BATCHELLER Allum Grammophon. You may know him from bachelorette season for Bachelor Pad Bachelor in Paradise. And now the man is huge in the country world. He has a very popular podcast called Country Shine. Grand Bond. What's up?


Welcome to the show. Graham, I am so happy to have you on the show. What's up? How are you? Well, thank you one. I'm just glad you got my name right. I'm surprised you guys would even have space for me on here. But I appreciate you guys having me. And I've heard of your shows and I'm you know, I'm honored to be included in it. You guys do a great job. So thanks so much for having me on.


We appreciate it. And we appreciate that. Very nice. That's a good way to butter us up right before we drill you with a bunch of private questions, before you guys throw me to the steaks, I want to make sure you guys know I did my homework.


I listen to the Fortune Fiester episode, the Nikki Belle episode, and there was one other Dancing with the Stars cast mate that I listen to as well.


Oh, wait, wait, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Didn't there isn't the rumors that didn't you date crucial at one point? Yes, crucial.


And I dated for a few years back in the day.


Oh, so you've been you've been like buzzing in the click bait world lately. When Diana said that you actually thought that it was going to be Cashell as Bachelorette.


Yes. That that surfaced. That that is inaccurate. But, oh, I love the I've got a great relationship with Diana.


So if Diana feels that way, then I can totally understand why she would feel that way, because I did date Crucell before and after my appearance on the show.


Oh, that's that's good to know.


But you did it, but you didn't know that she was not going to be The Bachelorette or was going to.


No. I knew when I was approached to do the show, Kushel and I had had broken up fairly recently. And the story the story is so crazy, nobody would ever believe it. So I'll keep it as simple as possible. They showed me a paradise.


Yeah. I don't you know, it's been so long and Cashell is one. I listen to her show. And the one thing I will say about Cristel that I don't think a lot of people know is. She might be the hardest working girl that I've ever been blessed to spend time with, like she worked so hard when we met, we met through mutual friends. One of my buddies was on all my children. I was living in New York doing my clothing company that raises money for children's charities.


And I mean, I was just blown away by her. And you got sat with her. She's incredibly charismatic, one of the most beautiful, physically beautiful girls you'll ever see. And when you get to spend time with her, it's easy to understand how anyone would fall in love with her. So, yeah, I mean, I was blessed to spend time with her before and after the show. And at one point in time, we we separated because she was going to do the show.


So it was a crazy it was a crazy time. And again, nobody would believe the story if I told it.


Well, you set it here. So we believe you now.


We actually set the record straight. Yeah. I mean, yeah. You know, so grand prior to going on prior to going on Bachelorette. I want to get a little background on you. You're from North Carolina. I am born and raised.


Raleigh, North Carolina. Shout out to the new bachelor, Mr. Matt James, hometown hometown hero.


There we go. There we go. What's the. Favorite barbecue in North Carolina. Anything vinegar based and I'm good, I'm rocking with it Parkers, but anything vinegar based and you and I, we could be friends.


OK, nice. All right.


So prior to going on, like prior to going on The Bachelor, you are a professional basketball player in Germany, correct?


Correct. Yes, I know it doesn't look like it on this. Zuby Tom is not to be out of it. Stop it. I was playing ball in Germany.


It was it was so cool. And to be honest, just to say that I was a professional athlete is is an honor. Took a lot of work. I know you can't tell because I look so physically imposing, but it took a lot of work for me to get there, like, OK, so then.


All right, so how did you get on the show? How did you get on Bachelorette? So, yeah, one shout out to ABC and everyone on The Bachelor, that franchise, it was it was a it was a wonderful experience, but it was it was a very hard experience for me because I had just left Germany. I'd been in New York, I think maybe a year or so. And I spent my entire life dedicated to basketball. So I didn't really know anything other than basketball.


So I was kind of trying to figure out what my path was in the world. And so I met Cashell and fell in love.


So it's like this is the most adult relationship I've ever been in. And yeah, I've never even.




I think I was twenty eight years old when we started dating. And unfortunately for me, she was approached by The Bachelor to do the show. And so we'd only been dating. We had been dating long and I got to give Cashell all the credit in the world. She came to me and had and I don't know if it broke any kind of legal. Agreement, but she said, look, this is what's going on in my life, I feel like this is what's best for me and I want to pursue this avenue if it comes for me.


And I wish her well. I totally understand. We just met we've only been dating a very short period of time. And if it doesn't work out, maybe, you know, maybe we can we'll see each other again so fast.


Yes. Is that how I got to stop you there? I got to stop. I shall.


I mean, it's a beautiful, beautiful girl. You're into her and then you think everything's going great and then she drops inside you. And I know. Yeah, I mean, I would I feel like I would be the same, like I would wish her well.


But was there a part of you, like, pissed that was hurt or like don't go.


Well, think about it this way. Like what's the play there like that. I get mad at her and I, and I send her off pissed off so she never talks to me again. So yeah, of course I was, I was disappointed. But again, I have to reiterate, we'd only been dating and we dated a long time within a group setting because we had mutual friends. And so, you know, could be. In my life, of course, I'm going to fall hard for her, but she was very open when we started dating.


She was coming off of a really bad experience with with someone in New York. And she was very open about her expectations of our relationship. She was very strong willed in her communication about, hey, this is where I'm at. And if you're OK with that, I would love to spend time with you. But if not, I totally get it. You have to do what's best for you. So when we had that conversation, I didn't have any legs to stand on outside of saying, hey, I wish you the best, you know what I mean?


She was very, very honest and very caring and she was very sweet about it. And yeah, I mean, I learned a lot about communication. I don't like uncomfortable conversations. And to her credit, she probably doesn't either. But she's really good at it.


Relationship go. So we're talking about that. So she walked away from the situation knowing that she had been honest, forthright in caring, and then made me feel like, hey, look, it's not not anything to do with us. We're great. And obviously, we were together for like two years after the show. But, yes, she she taught me a lot and I'm proud of her and I'm proud of her to this day. She seems happy and it looks like she's got a handsome gentleman in her life.


And so I think she's doing great.


Yeah, but Gram. But so how do you get on The Bachelorette?


So I guess. Sure.


The details on this, I guess Ellen got involved when Diana was on.


What's the gentleman's name that she was she was on? He's a really nice guy, guy from Austin bred and I guess she was left standing and America fell in love with Diana, which is easy to do. She's an incredible girl and I love her to death. We're very close friends to this day. So Ellen got involved. And I think Ellen is the one that kind of put the kibosh on Hershel's season. And so whatever happened, the powers that be at ABC made the decision to move forward with Diana and not Crisil.


So at that point in time, Hershel and I, we're still friends because she she came back to New York or she was working in New York and she said, hey, look, you know, it didn't work out, but so I'm not going to do the show. And so we were still friends, but we weren't back together. It was that was a hard thing to see back together. You know, it's like, oh, now what do I do as a person?


Right. And then unfortunately for me, my grandfather passed away on February 10th, and he was my best friend. He was the closest person I've ever lost. And that was kind of the first time within my family I was ever asked to be an adult. At that point in time in my life, my parents are amazing and could not you know, I'm the baby of the family. So as much as I like to say I'm a grown up, oh, they've always been great to me.


But that weekend I had to be there for my father and had to be there for my family and do a lot of things then we don't need to get into. But a lot of responsible things that go into funerals and go into losing somebody. So crucial played a large role in that weekend for me because she was someone that I could lean on and I called her as a friend and she could not have been more supportive and talk me through some difficult times.


And I misconstrued that. I came home, I flew home early for Valentine's Day, and, of course, Shell had plans with, like friends or a party or something, and I took that really hard because I was so looking forward to seeing her. So I was working at a bar in New York at the time, so I just went to work. And when you work at a bar, you become friends with everybody and you kind of go and hang out when you can.


And so I had a little too much to drink on Valentine's Day in a bar in New York City, and I ended up walking around the bar with no shirt on and a bottle of Maker's making friends.


And I was on The Bachelorette. Wow. So. So what? So you're walking around the bar that somebody approached you and said, hey, we want you to come on the show trial for the show? Is that how it worked?


Yeah, somebody basically somebody grabbed me. And again, I want to reinforce this and I apologize to my parents when they hear this. I was acting like an asshole, like I was walking around like no shirt on or something or like just me. We all do, Graham. We all do. I act like an asshole every Friday.


So I've been doing it for 15 years.


So you're safe space. Right.


I'm out of that. Luckily, I'm out of that season of my life. But I'll be honest, I was not I was not on my best behavior will just say that. And I was going through a lot. I just buried my grandfather. I thought the girl that I was into, I thought that was gone forever. I didn't really know how to handle it. And being an athlete, I didn't really drink a lot growing up. So I always knew I was kind of new to alcohol and its effect on my behavior, especially in alcohol, large doses of it.


So you're still making excuses to 10 years later and you're still making excuses for.


Oh, no, I'm guilty of it. I'm trying to own up to it right now, because also the lives that I was I was behaving crazy like, you know, making friends with everybody. So somebody I guess somebody from ABC was in the bar and they just walked up to me and said, hey, if you can pass a blood test, you're good.


Oh, my gosh. Amazing. Wow.


That was like, I don't know, like three weeks later I showed up with, like, one suitcase and was like, I'm here. I don't even know what's happening right now.


Yes. That sounds actually it's very similar to my experience as far as like I feel like we're pretty similar as like I'm assuming you didn't really watch the show. You're just like what? It kind of went with the flow. Did you think you could actually fall in love on the show?


Well, one of the cool things is one of the reasons that I'm still friends with the honor to this day is I was skeptical of the process. My family got involved because, again, not to air it out. I didn't have a history with alcohol. So when my grandfather passed away, I was abusing alcohol to get through some things that I was going through. And that's there's no excuse for that. But I didn't really know how to process that.


So I had access to alcohol, I had access to distractions. And so my family and I would have never thought this. But my dress blues wedding marina, my father was like, look, I don't really know if you're coping with this very well. No matter what, I think you should go do this opportunity. You'll meet a nice girl. If it doesn't work out, you come home like. But right now, what you're the way you're handling and processing this loss of your life is not healthy.


And we're worried about you.


And that was kind of a sobering thought, because if you if you saw my show, which I'm sure probably tonight, it's been a long time, my dad's not a reality television guy. So you know what? He told me to go. I realized, all right, maybe this is maybe this is a wonderful opportunity. And it was it was a wonderful opportunity. And I can't I can't say enough about the franchise and about the people that have been in my life since the franchise and again in Cashell as well.


I understand why Hershel would have wanted to do it. And as you guys know, it's just it's just a once in a lifetime type of deal.


So so she didn't end up being The Bachelorette, but you were on The Bachelorette. So what did she say when you were going to be on the show instead of her?


Yeah, I mean, we didn't have extensive conversations about it before I left, but we definitely had some extensive conversation when I got home, I bet.


And like Diana is one of. That's friends like I love Dionna and I still talk, to be honest, I went to her wedding. She's someone I support and love and I was grateful that she was my bachelorette. We had a wonderful relationship. Now, if you watch the show, it was like we're always arguing, but I take pride in that because I was really just trying to be honest about what I was dealing with, where I was as a person.


Like, I never treated it as a TV show. I just treated it as there's a bunch of weird cameras around. But let's just meet you, discuss what's happening and so. Right. And if anyone's ever met her or her husband or family, like we we never had anything that pales in comparison to what they have. So we ask him to leave. That show, I think was a wonderful decision for all of us. And I'm very happy for her.


But yeah, when I got home, Cashell, who worked for ABC, she was on all my children. So she she knew certain things. And that was there was a lot of it was a lot of healthy conversation had when we decided to spend time together again. And I'm sure that wasn't easy for her. But we were together for I mean. A couple of years, like she spent Christmases at my family's house, I thought about proposing to her was a very serious, wonderful relationship.


And again, I'm proud of her and I'm happy for her. It was a wonderful season of my life. How do you happen to watch The Bachelor now since you've been off? It's been quite some time, but are you a fan of the show still? Yeah, I'm a fan of the show. I'm a fan of you. Thank you so much for having me. And I heard you moved to New York recently. Is that correct? Am I right?


That is right.


I am here. Do you ever come out here to visit?


I try to obviously with the conditions that we're in now, I have not. But one of my best friends, big shout out to Mr. Jay Williams. He's like my brother. He works for NBA, ESPN over in Bristol. So he's got a place in Brooklyn. I try to make it out to visit him whenever I can. He's he's a wonderful human being. And so any time I get to New York, it's always nice to see him.


I'm from I'm from Chicago. So I'm familiar with Jay Williams when he got drafted. And the whole thing. The whole. How was that? If you guys aren't familiar, Jay Williams is an ESPN commentator. He was a successful basketball player at Duke and then got drafted number two to the Chicago Bulls right behind him. Got yeah. And then he got in a terrible motorcycle accident. So him being one of your boys, like, how was how was coping with that?


Yeah, that was difficult.


And that was that was really hard. I was with him the morning that it happened. So again, for anyone that's not familiar with the story, just very successful was in the NBA and obviously making a large amount of money and got on a motorcycle. And he he's had history with motorcycles, but it was a new bike that he had just purchased and he almost died in the wreck.


So to give a little bit of context about our relationship, he was airlifted to Durham, North Carolina, where I was still in college. I was still training for my senior year. And I spent Yassmin a few days in the hospital with him. And then he and I live together in New York City.


When I got fouled by The Bachelor, he and I were roommates in New York who was training to make his comeback and so I could not be more proud of him. He's just an incredible story about resilience and just the ability to take adversity and turn it on its head and become a success story. And I highly recommend anyone that's listening to this. Please, if you're not familiar, go check out Jawaid story. It's very inspiring. Yeah, it really is.


Also, he was a he's one of the I mean, what happened to him is one of the bigger reasons why a lot of athletes are just more careful when they're in season and when they're doing things because in a blink of an eye, something so tragic can happen.


So I'm just glad he's still alive. I mean, the guy should be. Yes, he should not be here. And so he's he's done an amazing job with his life. And he gives back and he he does things with local kids and schools and just I just an amazing human being and loved music, by the way.


And he likes comedy. OK, yeah.


So let's let's yeah. Let's talk about country music. So obviously you go on, you go on these reality shows, you go on The Bachelor pretty much it seems like I put you on the right track. It seems like everything went pretty well for you. And then you're hosting Real Country USA. You're in the country world.


How do you how do you get involved in that?


Yeah, I mean, for me, it was an act of God, to be honest. I mean, I had never done radio before in my life. And so I was asked to come in and read, I guess, or put on a fake show for the radio station out here in Los Angeles. And I did that. I guess everybody else was busy. So they let me do it. I had I did that for like five years.


And I think some of the producers of real country, which was a basically a country American Idol on NBC or NBC Universal. One of the producers happened to listen to my radio show in the morning, so they brought me in and I had relationships with a lot of the country artists at that moment in time. And as you guys know, I mean, there's country artists on The Bachelor all the time, like he always one on my season, one who was on your show as well.


And I was on my season.


So I saw Mr. Hambrick out here at Hotel Cafe, I think at 12 night, very talented individual.


He's gazing amazing life.


And I want to know, since Adam is one of the more up and coming people that we had on the franchise.


Is there anyone that you would like to see on the franchise coming up and coming country stars that you would think.


But. Oh, be that would be that's probably more of a bachelor wedding episode. I don't. Do they still do The Bachelor wedding episodes?


Yes. Yes. Once in a while. Yes, yes. Yes, I got it. Are you friends with Chris Stapleton? We're friendly, yes, we're buddies as far as like what we when we see each other, he calls me, he's like, Hey, Carolina, what's up? I don't even know if he knows my name, but he calls me karaoke, OK?


I actually really love Chris Stapleton, but he's I think he's a little more you know, everyone knows Chris Stapleton. Right. But is there any up and coming people that you think should be on the show? Because Adam was amazing.


Yeah, there's a guy in Nashville. His name is Jackie Lee. And I think that he would be an amazing addition to the Bachelor franchise. So if you're looking, Jackie, if you're out there, you need to make some calls. We'll figure it out. And on the female side, I would say a young lady who's also very talented and I think they're very close friends, so maybe they do a duet is Lady Wilson.


Lady Wilson. All right. That is the endorsement from right now. Exactly. This is great.


And we've had we've had a few artists that have done The Bachelor on Country Shonen. And again, selfish plug, please. Anyone that likes country music, come over to Spotify, listened to country shot. I think Dhananjay have done The Bachelor, which we we've had them on. They're good friends. And my buddy, who he could be on every season because he writes a new love song that's amazing. Like every two months is Mr. Brett Young.


Oh yeah. Yeah, I know. Can you talk about Country on your podcast? Yeah. Tell us, how did it come about.


Yeah, I'm so blessed and fortunate. One of my friends out here in Los Angeles, he was in the the middle of getting involved with country music. He was acquiring Big Machine, the music label out Nashville. And so he and I were kind of in conversations about artists and catalogs and in some of the things that he needed to familiarize himself with before acquiring such a label. It's obviously a massive move. I think it was like several hundred million to buy this label.


So I went to Nashville with him.


And again, it's you know, people were like, oh, you never did radio, but you started in Los Angeles, which is a large market, just started doing radio or you've never done television. It does go on to do The Bachelor, which is like this massive television show. And I've always approached things the same way of like very relationship based. So when you when we're on here, like, I like hanging out with you guys. You guys are are my friends and people.


The podcast stuff is kind of secondary to us, kind of relating to one another, having one conversation and whatever we get out of it, we get out of it. So when I was in Nashville, I was just trying to help my friend and I ended up speaking to several people that worked at Spotify.


I had no idea who they were. They were just very nice, kind people. And we we kind of discussed my point of view, their point of view on on country music. And I was very fortunate that one of the conversations being had with a very powerful person at Spotify, Jason Aldy, walked over and said some very nice things to me because I hadn't seen them in a while. And I think they took notice that I had built real relationships with artists and kind of was able to get into conversations with people about life.


Not so much the stock car like, oh, well, how's your new single? Like, really talk really kind of get to know the artist on a level that their fans want to know. And so that was kind of my calling, not so much as a country music expert, but just as somebody that really valued relationship, no matter who you are. And I think it came about that way because I feel like the platform that podcast is and you guys have done an amazing job that shows that I did listen to you get to know people on a personal level that you can't really get to know them by just watching them on, let's say, The Bachelor or let's say Dancing with the Stars.


We have real conversations and I think people want to know that. Yeah, yeah, I agree.


And you are a bachelor success story, so we love having you on the show. So do and everything that you've been up to has been really great. And it's nice to know that we have this platform. We catch up with all bachelor a lot because people want to hear what you guys have going on. So it is time for us to get into a game. All right.


I'm fearful. I was told we were going to play a game, so I'm a little bit fearful. I was not told what it was. And I will say that I have a very close friend that works on your show, and she's she's amazing. And she could not be more proud of you guys. So I'm a little bit fearful, like, is this going to be bad? Like, should I be nervous?


Oh, no, you should be nervous. Maybe I'm losing the title and see if you like that.


OK, so.


So the game is called Hot Cross Buns.


Yes. We're ready for this. And the bachelor family. You've been in The Bachelor family for a while and you are now successful in country music, your country music host.


So we're going to play a game where we're going to read a lyric or a wedding proposal like, OK, you have to. If it's a country song or if it was a wedding proposal, a line on The Bachelorette. OK, before we do this, in my defense, if it's a good proposal, is going to sound like a country lyric. Yeah, that is true.


That is true. I believe that's why it's going to be hard.


This is why we're judging we're judging our bachelor album right now.


What exactly for saying that I wasn't successful in. I appreciate that. That's very kind. There's been so many things. Yeah.


Oh, yes. For sure. Absolutely.


So I'm going to start us off. OK, you ready for this? All right. You've been by my side from the very beginning. You never lost sight of what we could be and for what I am. So and for that I'm so grateful for. I thank you every day for not giving up on me. I'll read that again if you like.


Yeah. No, I'll just go ahead.


I will make you do that again. It it doesn't sound familiar to me and it didn't seem to rhyme, so I'll say BATCHELLER. Yes, correct. Bachelor number nine, Desirae and Chris, that is a proposal. Yes. That is too funny.


All right. You're going to go that number two, if my voice is just this deep Chicago accent. So everything is going to sound bad. All right.


Here we go. When you think about your forever, do you think about me? Oh, yeah, that's the that's the country, that's the home, that's Dhananjay and Justin Bieber. I also do want to say I've seen you you're friends with Justin Bieber, right, because he's underage. I did a deep dive on your Instagram. You know, everyone I know. Yeah, I am friends with Justin and I actually heard that song. And it's a cool story.


I heard that song. Easily a year before he came out, we were at church one night, and this is terrible for me, but it's also a funny story. And so after church, Justin and a couple of our our friends, he was like, hey, do you guys want to come to the studio and hear my new album? And this was before changes came out. So I was like, yeah, of course, man. And it's probably 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock.


So when we get there, he orders a bunch of food. And again, Justin is one of the coolest, nicest, most talented humans I've ever met. He's good at everything. I mean, we play ball. And I was a professional basketball player, but we play ball at his house like on Monday nights, and he kills everybody like he's he's really good. So I love how he plays the album. The album is amazing. And there's there's actually a few tracks that that are unreleased that I think are coming this year that are going to I mean, they're smashes, but he gets to the very end of it and he looks at me and he goes, OK, now this is why I invited you.


I was what I thought I was doing this for no reason. And he's and he played his version of Two Thousand Hours, which is the lyric that you just read.


So big shout out just wow. The Amazing. OK, so next one, is this a country song or a Bachelor Nation proposal? I don't ever want another day to go by that I don't kiss you and tell you how beautiful you are and how much you mean. Are. I don't recognize it, but I'll say I'll say country song. Oh, did I stop you? Was it my voice when I read it? Yes, I got that wrong.


You got that wrong. That's actually a Bachelor Nation proposal from Bachelor in Paradise. Season five. It's Jared to Ashley. But I've met Ashley once.


Seems like a very, very nice girl. I did her podcast for Real Country when I was doing that.


Yeah. Yeah. She seemed like a very sweet girl. I've never met Jared, but we've exchanged some funny messages about football on Instagram over the years.


He's great. They're both really great people. Yeah. All right.


Next one, when I first saw you, I saw love. And the first time you touched me, I felt love.


Yeah, that's the whole me. That's a nice way to get on one of my favorite songs, by the way. I was fortunate enough so jealous that she's a hobby for you. I want to be here. I mean, we did that show together. She was an executive producer and a judge on the show that I hosted. So I became really well versed in shehnai doing so good.


Actually, when I when I played basketball in grammar school, my mom used to drive me to the games and listen to Shania Twain. So that's how I correlate to two.


I like I don't know if that's I don't know.


I just felt like saying, OK, all right, here we go. Sorry, that was a great right. That's definitely making the cut like that is for sure. If I don't know what production value we have here, like what the budget is, if we can throw some crickets in after that at all of us, that would be a place. That's right.


That would be a D then. So, you know, if I'm all right, I'm sorry, but you better get this, OK? You got to get high. And now that we are together, I'm stronger than ever. I'm happy and free. Would you mind one more time, of course, and now that we are together, I'm stronger than ever, I'm happy in free. That's a country song for sure. Something somebody. Sounds familiar, I'm drawing a blank on the artist to give it more time, one more time.


OK. It's the one I listen to because I record.


Yeah, you should get the you should honestly, you should get this. OK, I'm actually a little disappointed right now.


We have faith. We have faith.


And now that we're together, I'm stronger than ever. I'm happy and free. Faith, Tim McGraw and Faith Hill, yes. Wow. So those are the Jews, the Jews, Jews and me, I think you just say everything because Shazam would have picked that up for sure.


OK, are you ready for that? Let's see if I could stump you again. OK, you're my best friend. You're my soul mate. I'm going to keep you safe. I'm going to protect you. I'm going to wake up every morning and choose you over and over and over again. I mean, that sounds like bouse, so. Oh, I don't you look confused, I just I don't recognize that at all, so I'll just guess it's it's a bachelor quote, but I feel bad.


I have no idea. I'm so sorry if I should know the person like I love you.


So I'm so sorry, but I'm going to guess bachelor quote. You did well.


It's Bachelorette Club. Good job. Was actually bachelorette even season 12 with Jordan and Jojo. So Jojo, I was Jojo was what I was thinking when you were saying that.


But I don't really know. I don't know if I believe that.


Now, the last one, we we believe this line on that. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't sell that well enough.


I don't know. At least we know you can't lie so good at that again.


Everyone takes my money at poker. Trust me, they're OK. All right.


Next one life sure can try to put love through it, but we built this so we built this. Right, so nothing's going to move it. Mamoru it they go through it.


Move moving through it. Move it. It's the bones. Yeah. Yeah. I love my favorite show. She's crazy talented and when my dad hears this he's going to be proud of me because Mayor Morris is my dad's favorite country artist right now.


Really. So Dad. So Dad too. Yeah.


He's got a lot of love in this. He showed up earlier. He showed up now you know your dad. Dad.


Come on, Joe.


You're my world, my heart, my soul, and if you ever leave, baby, you would take away everything good in my life. Wow, Joe, that was romantic. Thank you. One more time, because I like Joe's accent. Yeah, this is this is OK. All right. I don't want to give it away. Give me that. Give me the cadence of the song. Of the song, I only speak in one cadence, something that would trick you.


I was hoping you're all right. You ready? Yeah. You're my world, my heart, my soul. And if you ever leave, baby, you would take away everything good in my life. I'll give you a little bit of a clue. OK? All right. It's a song. This is country, because on that same car ride to basketball practice, my mom used to listen to that song, too. It's one of the most it's one of the most popular country songs, I would say.


And I believe it's sound. It's in a very popular movie as well.


You know this I'm going to get I'm going to probably get this wrong, but I think it's LeAnn Rimes. Yes, you are. I don't know the title of this all the time to draw on the song. How do I know I live?


Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's just his accent. Castro's do for a living. Yeah. No, I'm not going to put that on him. You know, I'm not banned under the bus that you know.


I appreciate that. His delivery was perfect.


I honestly I would have never done it without his delivery. OK, I feel that. I feel that. I just got a few more for you.


Nothing too crazy. Now it's just one of my favorite. Anyway, I'll hold you in my hands. Anything and everything. You know that I'm all in. Yeah, that's I mean, that's.


My God. That's exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, that's a heart throb. Rick is one of my closest friends in country music and in a life like he's just the best. And then you are you are you you're an Orange County girl, is that correct? That's right. She's an Orange County guy. I'm well aware. I saw him actually play what there's like a country festival in Huntington Beach that he just played like two years ago.


Yeah, I was there. His whole family came. All people's great Old Dominion played that same weekend. A lot of people. It was a wonderful place, but it's called.


Yeah. Wow, that's so crazy. Well, I figured I figured you might like rent. Yeah, of course I do. And actually I was really jealous because he actually played on my season one of the dates he was with. He did Colton and Ellen's update.


So that was just one of the one I played here tonight. He did OK. He did very, very talented young. I love it and I think his wife is a massive Bachelor fan, I believe.


Is that right? Yeah, well, I would do so, which is nice.


It's so cool. And it goes to show you how much The Bachelor cuts to the core of human emotion. There's so many people that you would never think are like massive fans are just crazy, awesome bachelor fans, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, our fan base is massive. It's much bigger than I had even realized before going on the show. To be honest, I hadn't really watched the show prior. And then when I came off I was like, oh my gosh, everybody watches the show, touches people.


All right, let's do let's do one more one more quick. One more game. One more game question. OK, I'll do this one. All right. The second one, I see smiles and laughter. I see babies and grand babies. I see a white dress and I see it with you. Man. Yeah, I did. I'm so sorry, I have no clue if this is a Garth Brooks lyric, they're going to cancel my show.


We wouldn't do that to you. Do you guys like unless you have room on this panel, do not get me fired or do that.


Your bachelor knowledge sucks, but your country music knowledge is very impressive. And I think that's all that matters. Yes, exactly.


So what do you think I'm a problem? I wish I could do better with that and do appreciate in value everyone from the franchise. And obviously we touched on it a little bit earlier. It's been a really weird ride for me in the way that the show has kind of come in and out of my life. Like, I don't think. It's not like you can pick up the phone and just get on the bachelor like so for that like that stuff that happened with someone I'm dating and then me and like, it was just they was very messy.


I will say that. Very confusing and very hard to juggle all of that. I wish my my bachelor knowledge was better, but I'm glad you guys are not going to be Garth Brooks lyrics that I'm going to basically get fired by Spotify.


No, no, no, it's not Garth Brooks.


So it was actually bachelorette number one, Trista and Ryan.


I love both of those people. I don't think you can pick a better couple to represent what the franchise stands for. All right, Gramble, it was a pleasure meeting you and talking to you.


Thank you. Thank you so much. And again, you guys do an amazing job and I'll make sure that I listen to more shows and can't thank you enough for all the time that you gave me. And thanks for let me come on and talk about country song on Spotify, please. I would love you guys to check it out and send me messages, notes, whatever you guys have. We would love to hear from you and anything I can do to support you guys.


Let me know. Thanks so much.


And you can let our listeners know where to find you on on social. So your Instagram. Twitter?


Yeah, I've got real creative with mine. So it's my name. Grab on.


OK. Hi, I'm Chris Burns. That's the nickname by Cockcroft. Yeah. Yeah. I love you. All of it.


And I love catching up with Batcheller Allum. Right. He's really made a successful career out of this.


Yeah. Yeah.


He has a good feel. Good energy. Yeah. I could have talked to him for hours like I was just you could tell how genuine sincere he is. I don't know who really like him and I love all the coincidences that happens.


Like he was just saying all the coincidences that's happened with the pastor since he went on the show and like the people that he's mad and he knows so many of them. It's great. Yes, I have to say really quickly, when he was talking about, like, you know, like him going on the show, like after breaking up with Kushel, I couldn't help but wonder, you know, how they always say, like, Christina works hard, but that's what producers work harder.


What if they had contacted Gramme because they knew he was an axe before Cachao possibly had become The Bachelorette just to, like, keep him and keep him in the mix?


You know, you never know, like, what are the odds?


And I don't know if that's ever going to get. You know, I don't know. I think it's I definitely think it's a possibility, so I just think it's so crazy. And also, if I went crazy like you did what I would have been so mad.


I think I didn't realize before we even you know, since the crucial interview how much she's kind of been involved in bachelor world, right? Yes, Michelle.


Yeah. Yeah. She kind of just kind of like it was like some, you know, wasn't that big of a deal to her to go. Yeah, I was kind of in talks and like, we went to lunch like, no, it was guys, it was a lot.


It was a yeah. And then she goes on Dance with the stars and I thought that was great. I'm super happy that we had him on and the guys we got to check his country showing.


Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you, listeners. And thank you so much, Graham, for being on our podcast today. You truly were alight and it was just so good getting to know you. But you guys, it was a good episode. It was.


And make sure to check us out on social and like common themes. You know where to find us at Click Batebi and on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Share your stories because we're going to start talking about all of them DMAs. We're looking forward to it.


Are you tired of being single out there and looking for love? To all my single men, I'm about to be the best wing woman ever because The Bachelorette is looking for you. If you are single or know of any amazing single guys you can nominate, just go to Bachelor Nation dot com forward slash appli. You got it. Bachelor nation dot com forward slash upby and sign them up right now. They will. Thank you for it. Also, don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on Apple podcast Spotify, The Wonder Gap or wherever you're listening right now, hit that subscribe button and we will see you guys next week.