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Hello. Hi, good morning. Click Bait Nation oh, could be nation, that's kind of fun, but it's really like Vaders. It is a Tatia here with Joe and Natasha. You guys, we have a really fun episode coming at you this morning. We are obviously talking about The Bachelor Nation breakdown, all the hottest things that's happening within our little franchise here, as well as the Kick Me of the week that talks about a guy fighting his feelings for you or not.


And we also have Jared coming on the podcast today. He is one of my favorite people from Bachelor Nation. Just so kind. Also has been such a hot commodity in his own. So let's just break it all down, shall we?


Get into it. Let's go, baby. Go. Oh, right. So first thing first, which is I'm really happy that we're starting the segment with this today. Matt has released his statement just regarding everything that has just been going on these past couple of weeks, which I feel so bad for him because I feel like it is a lot coming at him. I know the feeling of just people going 100 miles an hour with all the like the news, all the speculations, dissecting every single move you make on this show.


And so I feel like I'm so happy that he was able to have some time to, I don't know, just release a statement with everything that's transpired. But he has said some really, really, really inspiring words. Did you guys read all that? Yes.


Yes, I read. I read it. If you're listening and you haven't, check out Matt James's Instagram page. He posts that statement. I think it was great.


I think I liked everything he said. I think it made a lot of sense. I think it sounded very honest.


I know like people are like, oh, it it's about time he made a statement and and yada, yada, yada. And it's just like everybody works at their own pace.


You don't know what's going on behind the scenes. You don't know exactly how he feels. So let the guy breathe and do what he's got to do. At the end of the day, this is a show where you're trying to find someone that you're going to end up with, right? I mean, that's what the show's about.


I need to show to y'all. But it's someone's real life. I don't think people are realizing that. I mean, like, it's a lot in real life. Yes. Yes. At the end of the day, it's a TV show. I get that there's cameras, there's my people, all that kind of stuff. But like, it is also very real. You're finding a real love me like you're finding and trying to find your person. So, yeah, there's a lot coming at you as being a lead.


Yeah, I do think that there's a lot of people who were saying a lot of different things. And now that everyone's kind of said their piece, it's kind of like he's the guy everyone's waiting to hear from him. But, you know. I think it's proper that he waited till everyone was done kind of being their peace and now I can speak and like, let this be the end of it, if that makes sense. Not I want to see the end of it.


But he said his peace and it wasn't premature. That's what I'm trying to say. I think he had time to digest. Of course, the unfortunate thing that happened with Chris Harrison and he had time to digest Rachel's apology and all these different things, he's had time to really digest it. And so the apology seemed very sincere. He addressed Rachel, Lindsey and Rachel. She had time to reiterate and say how she was feeling so many things. So it's very important that I think he took that time for himself.


And I was reading it. I was like, good, good for him for acknowledging. And that's all people really want, is for him to acknowledge what's happening. But also him acknowledging and saying this has been the toughest weeks of my life. I can imagine that he put his heart out on the line and then all of this happened during. Wow. Twenty 20 was hard enough. I don't want to start some crazy new diet this year. Instead, I'm packing my fridge with snacks that are nutritious, delicious, and could help you hit your twenty twenty one health goals made freshly with ground up butter, organic honey in 20 organic super foods.


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Visit Madisen Dash read Dotcom now to find your perfect shade. That's Madisen Dash read dotcom. I mean, he did say, look, the reality is I'm learning about these situations in real time and it has been devastating and heartbreaking, to put it bluntly. And I've been in that situation to where like let's just say who you stop filming. You're kind of like in this. Alternate world of like, so much just happened to you, you talk about it with anybody.


It is now airing on television. There's still so much to be seen and so much to be heard. There's so much more that goes on behind the scenes. And then you're learning more information about these people that you just spent a really intimate know past couple of months with. It is a lot to take on. So that's my question for you, too, as our bachelorette. In real time, when you're watching the show back, that's like I remember when we were doing this podcast, that was enough anxiety for you watching it and reliving those feelings.


So it's like he has to you know, it's like I'm sure that was hard. Right. And he has to relive those feelings. And now here all of this madness that's happening as well. So can you kind of speak to what it is looking at this show in real time without all the madness of the outside world and reliving those feelings? Well, I mean, it's it's no one taking care of your own, like, again, your own mental health and like your own self, because you just went through this entire experience that you're still trying to process.


Also juggling a relationship or not juggling relationships and going through that, whether it didn't work out for you, whether it did work out for you, you're trying to keep that healthy and alive. And then every single week, it's such an amazing feeling like having so many fans and supporters. But also there is like the critical the critical aspect of people, like analyzing your every single move. But the energy that I talked about this is like the energy you receive on a Monday night when that show is live.


It is insane. Like there's just so much coming at you. So it's just it's just a lot to process. And then on top of all of that, all these Real-Life situations are coming at him about such intense topics that really hit the heart in a different way. And I directly do involve him. And I mean, so it's just. He's human, we're all human. There's only so much a person could take on and process, and this is why I say when people say like, why haven't you said anything yet?


Hold on a second. Can I just breathe for a second? Like, this is not the only thing going on in my life. And it does affect me a lot. You don't know how it's affecting somebody you never know. And so it might take somebody a little bit longer. And for me, I know it takes me a second to kind of like really analyze how I'm feeling. And that doesn't happen within 10, 15 minutes or however you want it to happen.


May take me a couple of days.


Do you guys ever you ever wonder. I guess I was with a friend over the weekend and I had mentioned them like this, you know, the Chris Harrison, everything that's going on with him, it's so big. And he's like, I don't even know what you're talking about. I'm like, Really? You didn't see this? He's like, I'm like it's like the biggest thing going on. Like, maybe in your world, it's like I, you know, I don't watch I don't pay attention to any of this.


I don't even have social media.


But you ever like. Like wonder like, why do people care so much? I'm not talking about why do people care about racial injustice or anything like that, but why do people care so much about. Know our show, reality TV, watching people fall in love, like and then like becoming so critical on every move the lead makes or anyone from the show makes it like. Well, I think it's pop culture, you know, The Bachelor is pop culture, whether we want it to be or not, it's a part of pop culture.


Tasia Tatia runs naked through somewhere. People are going to be like The Bachelorette, just like it's a thing like there's so many people that have watched the show. They've built this franchise. So that's what I think.


But I must stop you right there real quick.


Do you think Bachelor, part of pop culture or just reality TV in general is just, I think reality TV in general, but the Bachelor being one of the more popular, one of the most watched or longest running or longer running reality shows before I went on the show, if I saw anybody that I notice from The Bachelor, I would have never looked twice like I'd have to do that as well.


Like I never used to watch the show prior to like I remember all my girlfriends in high school. I went to an all girls high school. They had like a big thing, like watching Bachelor on Monday nights. And I was like, I'm not into that. But I also think it's a lot of people get into this show because like their moms watching it or like they're best friends or watching, it's very influential, like it's a community show. Yeah.


So I, like my parents, never used to watch reality television, like we would watch a movie, like growing up like that was like what we would do to end the night, watch a show or a movie. So it's probably just like how I don't know. You are in the home. Here's my question. If you saw a Cardassian walking down Michigan Avenue, would you? When you look twice.


Of course, but but they're they're bigger than reality TV. Well, but to me, but to me, they're to me they're reality stars.


To you they probably are. But I'm just saying, there are people who look at you probably that way. You know, they're people. So. So that's. So that's that's what I'm saying with with that.


I think people when they see me, I think we should move on. But people when they see me, they definitely it's like they take pictures that show me. Yeah.


They're like, oh my God, is that Joe Gross? Let's go let's go to the breaking up.


Speaking about, like, people just like really dissecting into every move of reality television people. I think this next click bait is actually very interesting. But Matt James, body language has been analyzed quite a bit also regarding his final four people. And people are saying that his body language is giving everything away as to who he's going to choose, who he really is into, who he's not. And I think this is so interesting, too, because. I love it.


I've been on the other side and I'm like, I think if I was crossing my legs, it wasn't because, like, I wasn't into this guy. You I mean, you know, I'm so into this Taisha because I was like, oh, look at, look at.


Oh, look at that. No, see, I'm with you on this. But go ahead.


I want to be like this is just so funny how people are like, really looking into, like, how big his eyes are, like the diameter is being analyzed that this is for me it's less about at least when I watch the show, it's less about analyzing him and more so analyzing the women like she feels secure. She doesn't see him at all. Like I told you, that whole story, the the dating habits are in the way they did the whole tantric thing.


She was dripping and I'm so uncomfortable. And he was like, this is pretty great. Right. I love this. And so it's the same thing. It's like she engaged it. It seems like she engages so much just to give him those breadcrumbs to be coming back, if that makes sense. And then, you know, we see this week what happens with them. But. Right. I was watching and I'm just like I love that people are analyzing this because it's different.


It is different. And some people just can't hide that. Some people have a better poker face. I think Tatia had a bet. She did. She played it off a lot better than you did.


I was genuinely into these people. But this is funny to but with no, but with Zach, it just it was different. And I always felt that way. It was just different. But you played it really like you were. You're just an engaging person, right? So you engaged all these people, whereas know Matt. Well, it's also it's also, Matt, it's his first time being on reality TV, so you're probably seeing him at his at his Ross because Tatia, she was on the show.


So she kind of knows a little bit of the game and knows how she wants to portray herself. Whereas, Matt, you're.


No, I'm not. That's not what I'm saying. So.


Yes, you don't think so here? No, I don't think so. If I if I if I went on the show. If I went on the show. Right. I went back on the show and I was sitting in front of the camera. I'm going to be aware of that. This is what I'm saying. So I know what you're saying, but I'm not going to slouch. I'm going to sit up. I'm going to be more into the conver I'm going to be paying attention more because I know that are being filmed right now.


Well, that's maybe that's you. Yeah, OK. I mean, let me tell you, I know it's why I did clouds and half the time that's what I do.


So have you ever thought about my dress being too tight that I can if I can breathe, if that's it. And here's the thing.


I think I think you I think you by having a dress that was too tight and you couldn't breathe, you still knew how to handle that.


All I'm trying to say right here is that I wasn't trying to portray I was being myself very much. I was a more comfortable I'm from the Catskills. I've done this before. Probably so, but also. This is just for me, maybe not everybody else is like this, I actually could care less. It was very awkward making out, but after a couple of them, you get used to it. But I was also really trying to find my person.


I'm going to be exactly me like I was.


But that's not at all what I'm saying. And that's how you always have to be portrayed. Yes. How do you like that word? OK, but how you want yourself. How you want yourself to come off.


OK, so it's not you. It's not you not being yourself. I'm not saying you are out there acting. Yeah. But I'm saying you you want to portray the best version of yourself.


Do you not want to go on a daily basis. I don't deal with. OK, so here's my point.


Where are you in your mind? Take yourself back. Were you trying to be aware of your body language in your mind? Oh, no. OK, all right. Now let's take men into somebody I would kind of like lean in a little bit more, but it was just from me because that's how I don't it. Right? So get off me. Let's go back to that. I'm here. Yeah.


You know how everyone was talking about his eyes being open when he kissed everyone? Talk about that. So, like, if he was on The Bachelorette and he was kissing The Bachelorette like that, people probably would have dreamed of for that. I said, yeah. So then him as a bachelor, he's my name. Close your eyes. Close your eyes. Like she might be more aware of it. Like so I get what you're saying. Yeah.


Where it's like he hasn't been on TV, so he doesn't even know the little things I've been doing. Yeah, that's my point. My point is that he's not that like you weren't genuine or you are being yourself, you just have done this before. So you're not going to make like like me for I'll use myself, like I'm not going to go on there and make some of the mistakes that I had made the first time as far as like, you know, just like slouching, for example, because they're aware of it.


Yeah, I'm just aware of those little things. I mean, that's a point I got you. I got you. Definitely. I will say, like with him never having been on television before, he really is just I love how you said like being in this sport. I'm like, this is probably how he really does date people and touch people and show he's into people and. Oh, really.


See, I don't know about that either. Oh, OK.


Joe, let me tell you something. Yeah. Let's go right now. But I got to like you right now. Yeah. No matter what. So we should be able to disagree on, on a lot of topics and one hundred percent, which is why I love you because I can do with you.


I love you. Shit. All right.


We should move. All right. Let's move on to this job. Don't leave me hanging for this round. You OK? That's all right.


I'm actually stable now. I don't even know if we even got into this. But all in all, I think my body language has been very telling as to who is actually really comfortable with and feel like all signs are kind of pointing more so to like Bri and Rachel, if you're asking for my personal opinion, I think I think the comfortable aspect with Michelle is like. Just that's attractive to me. I agree, I agree, yeah, I agree.


I really like them together. Again, kind of going into this, I don't know, portraying ourselves in the best light, not because we're acting, but being aware just anywhere where I actually think this next segment is really, really funny because how we've been talking about people analyzing every single move we make and body language and what not, there is now people saying that The Bachelor is the fastest growing professional sport in America. And this is comical to me because it might be true for some people.


As we have noticed, some people go on the show to like advance themselves in their career or whatever it may be. But the fact is, this podcast, Game of Roses has basically created a game for us that's or like an algorithm that if we do certain things, we could advance ourselves and get to a certain part.


But I mean, they give us points for like pulling a p, t, c, which is a personal tragedy card or analyzing our hijau. Is it who you are, who you which is a hug job, which basically gives us more points to see if the person is going to be into us, if we're going to get really far, all kind of stuff. I don't really know. This is weird to me. I don't think too much about it.


I don't think it's a game.


I agree. I think it's the I think it's very intriguing. I think it's I think it's all bullshit.


Well, I was when I was reading this click bait, I was thinking, like, as someone who was on the show, if I actually thought like this, then I would it would not be about my connection with this person, which exactly I we are going to hope that that's what really takes you far and not hitting these points that they're saying that you should hit. And if you really thought about it like this is complete competition is the way that this is.


It sounds like they're talking about it. And I went in with complete connection. Just that is my driving force. Now, did some people go in with strategy, strategy, strategy? Sure. And does that possibly make them go faster? Maybe on The Bachelor? But it seems like more than The Bachelorette because women just sniff out that type of stuff, I think better than men do. You know, it's just my opinion. My opinion. You can come me on that later on.


I was just going to say, Joe gets on the say, I'm just way you do so.


So as you do, it's detrimental, I think, to the process, to the real process. If you're really looking for someone, if you are going into this being like this is a competition, I'm taking these bitches down. This is what it is. This one is it's like, no, my whole focus was do I feel connected to this human? And every time we get a time to get there, do I feel more connected? And if I and if I don't than that, then I'm worried about that.


I'm not worried about these other chicks. I'm worried about our connection. Right. So so don't worry. OK, here's the bottom line.


OK, here's the bottom line.


OK, OK. People that go far on the show, people that that do well in my opinion and going for remaining top four top. Let's go top. Let's go top five. Right. People that go further on the show are usually people that a the lead is attracted to be the lead actually sees a future with. In turn, those contestants.


I'm going to call them contestants because that's what they are, I guess, whatever.


That's what they go for by. For those two reasons and then also being is honest is they could be about their feelings and the producers and the show, they watch that and they see, oh, I believe this person I think this person's being real.


And usually those are the people that always make it towards the end. Anybody else playing the game of I'm going to play this card, the victim card or whatever card you're going to play? Sure. Is it going to get aired? Most likely, because guess what? It still is entertainment. And you need to find things that are entertaining. But those people always fade out and then you always hear them say it wasn't fair, yada, yada, yada.


It's always the same fucking story. The people that go far is who the person who is the lead is into.


But they're also probably taking out the love they are at this point.


It's like they're giving me points and saying, like, I'm going to be with this person if I have a good juju, I'm sorry. And they take it and they're taking out the love because they probably think it's so ridiculous to actually find love on TV.


Not like it is possible. Crustacea that, hey, what's up? And there's many others. Very much so. And we have Jerry coming up to test with my fiance and I found him on the show. Yeah. And we have Jerry coming on this boob anyway. Moving on. I would say that sum it up. Yes. Maybe people that well I kind of lost my train of thought and people in the top five, there is an actual connection.


The person. Yes. Even if you do spill your heart out and have like this quote unquote, tragic story, you know, that can actually bond somebody with you. It's so much deeper than all of this stuff. I don't know. I don't like these people. I don't like this.


Let's move on to the beat of the week, show Joey happy. So click of the week. That was great. But let's get into some juicy stuff right. Click of the week five signs. He's fighting his feelings for you. I want to get into each of these and I want to know what you guys think about this because. It maybe it has some truth to it, maybe it doesn't. He's jealous is the number is the first thing.


If he asked if he acts jealous, then he is fighting his feelings for you. What do you guys think about that first one? Just go. So what are you saying? If he is jealous. So he's inviting his feelings, right?


If he acts jealous and he's fighting his feelings for someone. OK, clearly he's not trying to be with you, but then you say, oh, my gosh, I met this great guy and they're like, fuck that guy. He's the loser. While I think here's the thing. If he's if he's jealous.


No guy wants to show that they're being jealous, no guy wants to admit that you want to come across like you don't care because it just it's a better look for you.


Jealousy, jealousy is never is just it's never a good trait. It's not. And we all have it. There's a part of us that that do get jealous. I admit it. There's times in a relationship, of course, you're going to get a little jealous. I mean, it's just part of it's how you handle it and people that handle it by putting down other people. That's like the the lamest thing you could do, in my opinion.


I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that's something that girls, like kind of find attractive at a younger age. Like when you're like you're like, oh, my God, he's like he's such a bad thing, so high. He's like so he loves me so much. Like me right now.


Like, I don't find that attractive in any way, shape or form. I just feel like, OK, and I turn away and like walk away. So I mean, I just don't I'm not into that kind of talk.


I like a secure human being that doesn't need to talk about other men.


OK, so you're bringing that up. Let's go to the next one. He looks at you a certain way so he may not say, oh, my gosh, you're so beautiful. I love you. Oh, my God. He may not be so vocal with his feelings, but you see.


Oh, my God, I love eyes, I love connection in that regard, I think that so is an intimacy on a different level. I mean, I like it when exhilarating, but is it frustrating if they're giving you eyes, not saying anything that frustrating? Yes. What do you mean? What do you mean?


Giving you eyes? Not saying anything as he is.


Are you just like into each other at the moment or is he looking at you out of like. Oh, my God. What is she thinking? Joe, let me tell you, you have definitely seen a girl at a bar, OK? And you're you're drinking, you're drinking, you're staring at this girl giving your eyes like, yeah, I'm into you. Like, I see you all the time. Yeah, exactly.


Do you always go and talk to them or not like you're too cool you say with your group of friends. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I it's OK. Well it depends, it depends on the situation.


It depends who she's with because you're fighting your feelings and you ain't nobody wants to walk up and be vulnerable and hit on someone and get shot down, not only just in front of her, but you're also getting shot down now in front of all her friends at the moment.


You look at her, you catch him staring and then he turns away immediately.


Yeah, I don't know why I feel the temptation for girls to wait till you guys have never done that.


We don't get to the girls, you know, why do you want to know why? Why what what happened? Why men do it? Because you called me out. I don't know.


I just felt like it was I because you instantly get like I think it's that fear of rejection. Everybody fears rejection. So as soon as that eye contact is made, you're like, oh, but then there's the other your other thought.


That's like, what if she turns me down? I look like an idiot. I shouldn't do that.


I mean, I agree. Guys definitely get self-conscious in that regard, but I honestly think that confidence is so. But then when if you walked up and she actually had a boyfriend and that's not like also at the same time. OK, well, she's not available.


Is she worth shooting the shot? That's the question. You care that you got to figure that out. That's what do you want to take her home before covid and that's why. And that's why you shoot more than one shot to her.


Natasha, where are we going to go home so quickly?


What if I was to talking about Joe here? I mean, not getting a fair deal. If you have, you're going to say, OK, next, OK, he listens to you. He remembers every single little detail that you told him. And he's eager to learn more about you, but he's not sure if he can shoot a shot. So he remembers these things like, remember, I remember, I remember you like tulips, and I was just walking down the street about just down there.


I've experienced this. Tell me tell me, having someone remember, like, the littlest things that you said and even the conversation and I'm bringing it up, but literally never being able to vocalize, like, yeah, I'm actually really into you. So, yeah. So that's happened before. And so at that point is just like I me personally, I'm like pulling things out of somebody all the time for me.


I try to approach any situation, especially if I'm approaching a girl who I might be into or if I'm dating a girl, just to try to be as honest as you can about how you feel in that moment, that usually, if you're honest, you usually can't get in too much trouble from that. So and I don't like I don't agree with, like, playing those games of like. Yeah. Oh, I remember when you said this. Look at me.


I remember. I'm so special. It's like, all right, what the fuck do you want. You like me or not.


Oh you like playing games at that point. Like clearly you remember little things that clearly you're like interested clearly going out of your way to make sure she realizes that, you know, the little things it's like its own it. Own it. OK, so let's do one more.


Why don't we do one more before we get Jerry. OK, got yeah. Before we get Jared on, I'll tell you what the last two are. It's he sometimes avoids you and he is protective. So I'll let you guys go in on whichever two you think. But also my biggest question that I want to ask is. Do we care if someone's fighting their feelings? Do we do we lean into that or are we just like, well, you clearly got something going on and if you're fighting for me, I don't want you.


What do you guys think? To me, I find that like immaturity in an age thing like ownership, like if you're into me, you're into me. If you're not, you're not like I'll find somebody else that's willing to vocalize that and be there for me.


Yeah. And I also think it's important with all these, it's it's trying to do it's everything in moderation. It's not being too much like. No, but no girl wants a guy that's too protective. But I think a lot of a lot of women want a guy that is a little protective.


I think every woman wants a guy that in a sense does get a little jealous at times and I think vice versa.


I just think it's everything in moderation. It's not going over the top. And to wrap this up. Yes, women fight their feelings as well. It may come out differently than men do, but I think women fight their feelings as well. And I think for myself personally, that's why I've said this before, going on the show was so difficult because I'm so used to men being the aggressors. So I don't really ever feel like if I like someone or if I think someone's hot or whatever, I feel like they should reciprocate that by saying, hey.


And if that makes sense, so is it fighting feelings or is it that I think I'm a little more traditional and I think the guy should be the one to come up to the girl and this man?


That's what I prefer. Yeah, that's what you prefer. But I think. Yeah, and I know I know women fight their feelings to trust me. Definitely. You know, it's that time.


Everybody, I hope you guys are ready for our guest. This guy is my friend. He's one of the popular people from Bachelor Nation. Please welcome Mr. Gerard Heyburn. Jared, what's up, man? Hi, Joe. How are you doing? What a great introduction. What are the popular people? You know, I've never been described as popular. I was always like the kid that just like coasted by in high school. So that's probably why people love you.


OK, so let's call you out right now. Yes.


You are one of the popular people from Bachelor Nation, right? You are if you want to not admit it and you want to be humble that. Sure, sure. But I disagree. I agree. But I feel like I'm also popular because I'm married to someone who's very popular in the franchise. Like actually like everybody loves Ashley because she's just the most transparent, just like emotional person you'll ever meet in your life. And I got lucky that she put up with my stupidity for quite some time and decided to marry me.


Can we talk about that stupidity for a second? Oh, yeah. By the way, I don't know if you remember, but we have not. So be you.


Yes. Nice to meet you as well. I wish we were doing a bait article about men fighting their feelings.


And it's kind of perfect because why are you doing that a little bit with our girl, Ashley?


I mean, as Joe can attest, the thing about men is that we're pretty stupid.


Joe would never admit that. I it I don't I don't agree with what he said.


I don't agree with that. Go ahead. Yeah.


I think I mean, as a man, I'm pretty stupid, but I understand where you're coming from. But I just think for quite a while, I think, you know, as you guys all know, getting thrown into this bachelor bubble, you just become so overwhelmed and confused and not sure like what to do or not what to believe, but like. All right, well, what's right and what's not high end. And so that really for me, for a loop.


And then Ashley obviously being on the show, she's just sharp rise in those environments. And she was just she was solely focused on me to say I wasn't intimidated would be alive. And so I think I think for a while I was like, well, Ashley is not the person for me. And then we hung out more and more and I got to see her on the East Coast. And we watched Giants games together, Eli Manning poster at her dad's diehards.


So we watched Sunday football. I would watch the Patriots and the Giants and I just got to really hang out with Ash and we just formed this bond. But, of course, like I think for a while it was like, yeah, we're great friends, but like, she's there's no way I could end up with Ashley. She's so completely different than anything I ever thought I'd end up being with. And I couldn't have been further to the truth.


And luckily, I got a glimpse into my life without Ashley. And that kicked my ass into gear and saying, either I do something about about this or I just continue living this life of being like, I'm fine, I'm fine. I'll be I'll be good.


So when I say I think that is what's great about the show, I think that's the true meaning of the show is ending up with somebody that you would have never ended up with and finding like in actually falling in love. We were talking earlier to Joe. Why do you think people get popped really last in like whatever in Bachelor franchise? Because that's kind of what it is now. Like, why do people why didn't they stick around? Why are people still relevant?


Like. To be honest, I am being honest, I wish I had the answer. I mean, a lot of it I find is like I talk a lot about this with Tanner because we're very close to 10 or eight and 10. And I constantly talk about like, how do people still even care what we're doing? Like, I it's just I just said that we're very lucky. Like, I feel extremely grateful for anybody who follows us on Instagram or or is invested in mine and Ashley's love story.


It's very humbling and endearing. I don't know exactly how it happened. It just like happened. I don't know why some people are more popular. I just feel like I mean, I can understand someone like, again, trying to I guess I'll just use Ash as an example because I live with her.


She's like I find that people who watch the show really drawn to people who are completely themselves. Right. I think authenticity people really just love because they see themselves in you. And so I guess maybe that's the reason why I don't really know.


I'm just going to say that that's probably why you don't really relate to, like. A relationship in a movie, because it's like you actually see yourselves maybe in this relationship, like Ashley and yourself, you're more relatable, like your little quirks are the things that you do on date night, like someone can relate to. Like I thought, we do that, too. So that's probably why people kind of invest in you guys a little bit more than.


So what is what's the plan like? What's the plan for you? Because like you said, you don't want to be in California. You want to move back to Rhode Island, like, what's next?


I'm not a plan type of guy. That's what I asked. And I always talk about plans because we we agree with you. Like, first of all, going on the show, never in my wildest dreams did I ever think that we would gain an instant following because I was at the show 15. And I remember thinking, and if I get ten thousand followers from this, that's insane. That's crazy. I don't even have Instagram before one of the show.


Sign me up for the show when I came back. She's like, you need to create an Instagram and you need to create a Twitter. We all kind of like stumbled into this this new business. I was working in restaurants my entire life making a decent wage, but nothing like I ever dreamed I could make. And so a long term plan for tonight. I'm actually going to school right now. I never finished my bachelor's again like an idiot.


And now isolation's, I think, in the top.


Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah. So I like five classes left, so I'm taking four right now and God I realized how much I did not miss homework. It's the worst. I would love my dream to own and operate my own restaurant. I was I worked in the industry for about 12 years. I started off by and hosting and then worked my way up to management. And so I love the restaurant industry. It's going through a difficult time right now, Joe.


I know you love the same industry. And so to own and operate my own bar or restaurant, Rhode Island would be certainly somewhat of a dream come true.


And Rhode Island. Oh, OK. What kind of food? What are you going to have? Well, all right.


So my ideal scenario would be I'd love to own a coffee shop slash martini bar because I love those vibes like, oh, Mediterranean vibe with vineyards and very dim lighting and intimate couch and chairs and that specializes in martinis, espresso martinis or like you are.


And just so our listeners know, you are a bartender for a while to write like, you know, how to make cocktails.


OK, yeah. You could come in mixologist if you'd like to know.


I really saw that this guy really is Tom Cruise in Cocktail. OK, keep going without the flare. OK, I dropped bottles left and right but I. Yeah. So I would love to do that and then have small piggies like pizzas. I make a pizza that Ashley loves to like, whether it be pizzas or sliders, small. I'd really love it to be that kind of five where it's not based around the food but like really good menu with like five or six items, really good food, great martinis, but also a place like you come during the day, open up a laptop, grab a coffee, and that would be my ideal place, maybe a sports bar, a big, huge New England Boston Sports fan.


Good luck with that.


I can see England. I know.


Well, honestly. Hey, New England, always looking for the next sports bar, so that's great.


That's really great. I have a question about you and Ashley again. So you guys went through your ups and downs, right? Do you think that clearly she did all these different things to hold on and she had this vision of guys being together and she saw it. You didn't see it. And sometimes it happens for the guy with the guys that a girl doesn't see it. And it's both ways. Right. Do you think from I mean, of course, from your experience, it worked out, but the percentage of that is so small for other people.


Like what would your advice be for someone who is possibly holding on to a person or relationship that isn't working right now with covid? That is, we've kind of switched here, but that's what I owe you. One hundred percent, right?


A lot of people ask, oh, they always come to Ashenoff before covid, obviously, and ask. It's like, how do you get out of the friendzone? Like, I'm in love with someone who is not in love with me. How do I convince them? And it's always like you can't convince anybody really. It's just like it's so bad for me to say. But I just got like I got lucky. I got super lucky that by the time I smarten up, I was still willing to pursue a relationship with me.


And really it worked out for the better because I think our relationship is so strong because of the friendship that we had prior to dating. But I think for anybody listening out there, it's really as hard as it is. You got to be willing to let them go. Feel like a lot of people are very scared of losing that person, so they're they're they're not doing the things that need to be done in order to find out if there is a relationship that is to be had here.


And so they like a lot of people when we when we tell this to people like, hey, you got to be willing to let them go. You have to kind of give them an ultimatum. They're like, well, if that happens, they'll run away. And it's like, yeah, that's the point. I know. I know it's really hard, but you have to be willing to lose that person to find out if they're willing to fight for you or if they're willing to move on.


And then that will give you your.


That's like the classic quote. If you love something, let it go. If it comes back, then it's yours. Yeah.


I mean, I always knew, but I just I I'm I'm so stubborn in my ways that my willingness to step out of my comfort zone was something that I just didn't want to do. And you guys know, like with anybody who has, like, this idea of who you are in your head and you're like, no, I promise you, I'm way worse than that. Like, I promise you, I'm not the person that you think I am.


There's always that hesitation of kind of opening up the curtain and giving them a glimpse of, like all your faults. And I think that definitely played it with Ash as well. We're just like, you're perfect. And I'm like, I swear to God I am not. I promise you, you're going to find out. And she has found out. I think we were both those people who were unwilling to let the other one go. So we had this awkward friendship for so long before finally she started dating someone else seriously.


And I was like, oh, no, that was there.


That was one of our things of getting jealous by the feelings.


Oh, this is going to be a stupid question because I know you both. Do you want to have kids? Yes.


OK, we are actually. We're so we're we're in the trying phase.


Transition is some of that that you'll wait until you move or do you think like if you start having a family here in.


I think well I think we're probably going to move this year. And and so we're going to just kind of. We're going to try and then let the chips fall where they may, because, as we've been told, it could, you know, who knows how long it takes some time. Yeah.


On the trying phase start, yes. She could be pregnant right now. How long has she tried to be pregnant?


Trying to get some got click click pastilla Ashlei right now.


I'd like a pregnancy test, if that's what you're asking, but I guess technically speaking, she could be. But oh no, we try. We've been trying for like three or four months now. I think it's the fourth month that we've actually tried. She wears like she has her watch. I don't know. It tells her when she's articulate and she's good at it. Like this day. That day. This day. That day.


You just tell me one, five, six I it's been four months.


She's definitely pregnant and she's pregnant. I feel it. No, she's not. I don't know. I feel like it'll happen soon before summer. I get hopefully not. Do you guys want a boy or girl first or whatever. Honestly, it doesn't matter.


I mean, I'd love to have both a boy and a girl now and a girl dog. This is weird. But like now I want a girl. I really want a girl because I just like having a girl dog like she's so delicate. So girl I, I'm like of the city humor.


Oh that's not you. Actually though the girls don't have the dads I can't like. I think guys having a daughter is such a game changer for them, they can become such a motion. You see a totally different side to man. So that's exciting. I can't wait for you to be a girl that. Yeah it's whatever, whatever everything. We could keep you on here forever, but I think it's that time we're going to we're going to cut you loose, let you go tell our listeners where they could follow you, even though I'm sure they know you can follow me on Instagram at Jarrard Heyburn, also a podcast with another Basilone Deenie Deani Babies Help.


I suck at dating, which, of course, you can get anywhere. You are listening to this podcast.


That's really great. Amazing.


Jared, how shall we say hello? Say I love. I will tell Zach I said hi even though I have never formally met him.


But honestly, I really hit it off. So we definitely need to make that happen.


Yeah, he's a New York guy, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. East Coast guy, I feel like. You guys today was such a fun episode, like Diving In Deep with your Nitasha, my co-host, you are just amazing to.


Joe, I love you. I heard it.


We were on four rounds, were going 12. So stay tuned next week.


Anyway, it was such a fun podcast. But thank you so much, Jared, for joining us today. And just being real, as per usual. Yes.


Yes. And thank you to our listeners and make sure to check us out on social inlike comment them us. You know where to find us. Click bait ban on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. Share your stories with us. We want to know what you think. We want to know what you think, what's going on in Bachelor Nation right now.


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