What's up, Joe? Hi, Natasha. You guys, we have an amazing episode today, but also it is so sad because, well, Bachelor Nation breakdown, we have the end of a season, but an exciting start of another one coming right up. So we have a lot to talk about in The Bachelor Nation breakdown as well as we're going to tell you if you should start handcuffing your significant other maybe to spice up your relationship. And then we have another guest from Bachelor Nation.

Nick Moul himself will be here on the Click Bait podcast.

So let's just get started with The Bachelor Nation breakdown because, well, a season has ended, you guys. That was I don't know, the final episode really had me reeled in. I found it so emotional and it did not disappoint being followed by afar. I felt like these past two episodes where nothing like we've ever seen The Bachelor franchise before, and I was very appreciative of them. How did you guys feel?

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It felt like a long season. There was a lot of drama and a lot of drama between girls in the beginning. You know, I wanted to see them end up with someone.

I thought it would have been really nice. It was his first experience on The Bachelor show in general. So I would have thought that would have been nice for him to end up with someone.

I loved afar. I wish I saw more afar, but also. Him and Michelle, heartbreaking, just just she was so excited and of course, I think she definitely thought that she was going to end up with him and they were going to end up together and ride off into the sunset.

It was very, very hard to watch that whole exchange happening.

But I will say that the best part of it, Michelle, and that exchange was when she just had a beautiful, a beautiful redemption. And she said to him, you know, how fun kissing with your eyes closed and say, and I hope you find another phrase, something better than thank you for sharing. So she kind of got her little jabs in. And, you know, that was what we expect from Michelle because she definitely didn't hold back, I think, this whole season.

So that was really I love saying that for her. I thought it was very funny. I was like, my mouth is on the floor when she said that dissipates and he deserved it, I think. But I also it was very interesting when she said that she wanted to speak to him. And I know on my season I had moments where I really wanted to speak to Peter and I wasn't allowed to or able to. And I really wonder, was it really him or was the information just not relayed properly?

That also that was like I was like ready to cry.

I was like all those votes that, you know, that she was clearly needing some sort of more validation, I guess, that she didn't get a chance to get in. I know she probably didn't think that she would get it for a while. So that was that was rough. Their whole exchange was really was really sad.

What do you what do you guys think? Do you think if everything that went down with Rachel never did, right. If there was no no photos ever surfaced or anything like that, do you think they would have still been together? Or do you think it was just maybe there was just nobody really there for him?

I mean, my personal opinion, I think watching Matt, especially at afar when he saw her, was sitting next to her.

I mean, from what I saw, it looked like he really loved her. It looked like he really cared about who she was as a person, but was very disappointed and very hurt. I got I mean, just looking at my my heart went out to him.

I talked about this a lot on Happy Hour this past week or this week, but I will say.

She seemed to have been very into him and he seemed to have been very into her. I feel like even like their embrace at afar, it was just a different kind of like a hug that you would give somebody that you actually are in love with. Yeah, and that's from my personal opinion.

I agree with that. I kind of see that, too. Like, to me, it seemed like they actually really loved each other. Yeah.

And like it was him and Michelle. It's like I saw like there was definitely undeniable chemistry there. One hundred percent. And I think Michelle would have been very, very, very good for that. Just as much an amazing man. So he would have been amazing for Michelle as well. But I just feel like they.

They had chemistry that you just can't fabricate, like it was just already there or, you know, but you can also just tell it like he was really struggling with it, like his heart wasn't where he wanted it to be or where hers was. And I think like it wasn't even a second thought when it came to Rachel for him.

So. So I have a I think that he definitely was more into Rachel. But I know you said do you just think no one was there for his person, wasn't there? I personally think that if this did not happen with Rachel, they probably would have been together for a while. We probably would. They probably would have been together for a little bit. But it didn't seem to me and my heart goes out to Matt and with everything that's going on and I don't know if it's just all the hoopla of what's been happening and what's been going on, that's taken from him.

But I'm watching his body language and I know we had some click bait before talking about body language and watching his body language. He was just very closed off. He was sitting. He was a certain way and his head was turned towards them the whole time. His body was not turned towards either of them, Michelle or Rachel. And he just seemed very like, I'm listening to you, I'm listening to you. But he just it was like a block.

And again, I don't know if that is because he put his heart out there. He, of course, was on this show and so many feelings and things came up. And you can't go on this show without feeling something and feel right.

So maybe he's still sifting through those feelings or what have you. But when I was looking at him, it AFAS, he seemed very just closed off. And you have to remember that they also are dating.

So she's probably heard all of this before on the phone. And I mean, what do you mean?

Like everything that she was saying I AFAS. Yes, but not just with Rachel.

I mean, with with with Michelle as well, because it's hard. It's not there. I so I definitely think that he was definitely close off with Michelle at that point. Like, I feel like I mean, we have to remember this was filmed like what ended in November and March, but it was a long time ago.

But again, it's not a about I'm not saying that he should be all googly eyed over her, but what I'm saying is, is that people struggle, viewers struggle to see who Matt really was. Right. That's a that's the thing that everyone said. They struggle to see him actually be empathetic. And I think with the conversation that he had with his dad, people were like, this is the first time that we're seeing something like this. And what I'm saying is, is that maybe just him as a person has these blocks or these walls that are up because of his upbringing, because of how he feels about these hands down, sifted through.

So it's not I'm not trying to say that he should have been, like Googling or anything like that. But just in watching the body language, even you, Teisha, I mean, you can talk to you can have conversations with people who who are not Zach and still be heartfelt and still be in the conversation and not be closed off to how they feel or what they're saying is what I'm trying to say. And I've seen that with so many other leads.

And I just I in this affair, personally, I didn't I I felt bad for him and I felt for him because it seemed like he couldn't just be like, oh, let me tell ya what the fuck I feel like going on. I think I think I've been I think a big part of that. I think the biggest part of that is he's never been on the show. I think it's very important that you experience the show before you are the lead because you have to be ready to go through all that and you have to be able to speak your mind in a sense and not be afraid to be.

You know, I was just on Mike and Brian's podcast about being vulnerable, and I have an issue with it and I especially have an issue with doing it on TV.

So for the first time being the lead and having to open up like that, I get where he's coming from. He's probably like, I'm over this. I'm done with it. I'm not cheering any more of myself to anyone. Right. Done. Right. Yeah, yeah.

That's another layer to that, too, is the fact that because it is on television and because. So when people are watching, no matter what you say, people are going to run with it and twist your words and make you seem like either a bad person or whatever it is like that makes you in itself closed off. Yeah, you're right.

I mean, and and what they were talking about at AFAS is such an uncomfortable conversation for so many that I feel like it's not like how you were kind of just saying really just let it out and was saying, like how he felt it could have gone a million different ways that he never, ever, ever wanted to go. But he's just a quote unquote, black man in America having feelings and explaining that. And I mean and I love that he just kept referring to himself as because he is a black man in America.

But the thing is, it's so different than just I don't know, so many people see it in a different way than it just being a man, having feelings, I don't know.

Yeah. And so for me, watching afar, I overall was like, we're not getting how he really feels. And that could be because of America. That could be because he's over it. That could be because he wasn't on the other side. And he's it's hard for him to share his feelings. That's how I personally felt. And I felt like Rachel was sharing her heart. I feel like Michelle was sharing was sharing her heart, you know, and it was just and I think that's one of the reasons why he says things like thanks for sharing because he doesn't know how to engage further.

And, you know, this is now the second Bachelorette's consecutive bachelor that is now single after their season. Did you guys see that coming in the sense that from as a viewer, maybe they talked about and we didn't see it, but did you? I thought that he was going to propose to Rachel. I mean, I never thought that they weren't going to get like, yeah, let's actually talk about that.

We're actually like, no, we didn't talk about that. Yeah, it's true. Like, he wasn't even going to propose.

Like you propose. Yeah.

Did you see that coming? I didn't.

I mean, I, I understand that because like I said, he's never been on the show. So it's not like once you're there and you realize what it is, you're like, oh shit.

OK, this is what this is. Um, so yeah. I mean I guess I guess yeah.

I guess it makes sense if I understand this, but also it was like they were standing up there, he's like I can't propose to you and it's like sad.

But then it's like, oh now we're happy again because we're going to just be together. I wonder if, Teisha, do you think if you had that same sentiment, like I mean, you had conversations about getting married, you had conversations about getting engaged after this or through this? I just feel like maybe we just didn't see those conversations with them talking about not getting married. Maybe.

Yeah, I'd be very surprised if Zach was like, well, let's just let's just date and not get engaged. Like you would be like what? Well, I mean, I've said this before. I came in with no expectations. Like, even if it if it felt right for me to leave with just like a boyfriend, then that's what I was going to do, like depending no matter what anybody said. So I and I think it also is dependent on the person, but that you're kind of falling in love with them.

But I will say, Matt, talking to his mom, rocked him, rocked him. And for me, that was kind of like the wake up. It was kind of like a wake up call, even though I was pretty self aware of what was going on. And I kind of am used to kind of going to this bubble at this point. But that's kind of always like the reality check of like, all right, I am in la la land.

I'm kind of falling in love here. Like, it's kind of easy. And then having your parents come in is kind of like, OK, wait, what do you do?

Reality. Yeah. You know, we're here now and like, this is not this just not the world you're going to be living in after this like it's us too. And so that's why it's such a pivotal, pivotal, pivotal moment for hometowns for these girls and for these guys when they have them. And then it's it's it's so pivotal when you meet the parents because that's reality. And I think once his mom kind of was just like those feelings fade.

It's kind of like, oh, shit. You're right. Is my is my or my feelings strong enough to actually want to be with this person outside of here? And the fact is, when your mom and your dad tell you that kind of thing, no matter how close you are, it kind of makes you freaking check yourself for a second, you know, and with him, like him and his mom are very, very, very close.

And he already has these fears of marriage and it lasting. So that was unfortunately, I personally, I don't want to speak for Matt or anything of that kind of stuff. But what I'm saying is, for me, if I was in that situation, that would have made me be like, OK.

Do I just want to leave boyfriend and girlfriend or like, you know what I mean? And I really felt for him with that, because when you're in that situation, you're really looking for reassurance that you're making the right decision and that you can move on and like this is good to go no matter how confident you are in yourself. You know what I mean? So sorry.

That's a long oh, that makes no sense. I mean, I remember on your season when your dad showed up, it was like, oh, shit.

Hodo is a guy who knows you better than anyone. Your parents. My dad could tell me what to thing before me, before I could think about it, just because he knows me and he can tell. And so in the same time, you get that feeling inside where you're like shit, right?

You're right.

You know, and it's just like, you know, I think Matt was really looking for his mom to be like, I this is a good thing, like go for it. And I really, truly think that if Matt got that, he would have proposed one hundred percent because he was he was trying to give himself to the process. But I feel like when that happened, you guys everything changed, everything changed.

So much sense. But at the end of the day, I think that Matt did what was best for him. And I'm very, very, very proud of him for handling the season the way that he did, especially being like, honestly, a fish out of water, like coming in with no experience. It is very hard to do that. I mean, I think I was only as comfortable as I was because I knew the crew. They were my family.

I knew, you know, kind of like the situation of how to navigate the waters there. So I really do feel for him, you know, but at the end of the day, regardless, I've said this before, I think that has a really good head on your shoulders. And I think that he'll figure it out. And what's meant to be will be.

Yeah, great, great learning experience. He has a lot to look forward to, I think.

One hundred percent. He's a phenomenal guy. With all that being said, the season wrapped up with an insane announcement. We don't just have one bachelorette, we have two, we have two.

And I am so, so, so excited because I feel like these women that we're chosen aren't just they're phenomenal. And I think we were all happy for both of them. I don't think we were all kind of like, wait, but why? I think it was very understood and I'm very excited for both Katie and Michelle.

Go ahead. Go ahead. And kind of like, why? Why are we having to bachelorette's? I'm not going to lie. I, I said I told I told you guys I know. I told Natasha that I thought that they were making Michelle The Bachelorette.

It really seemed like she was getting the the like that. We're all like it just seemed like it just looked that way and it made a lot of sense to me. She was of the right age. She's a school teacher.

She's clearly somebody that's not on the show. And I don't I don't have an issue with people going on the show and taking advantage of social media. But I get it. I understand that. But she is somebody that goes on and you could tell I mean, she's just really not into it, into that, in my opinion.

Yes.

Katie was an interesting choice for me. I didn't really understand that to me. She I just I didn't get where the Katie being The Bachelorette came from, if I'm going to be honest. I thought she was she had paradise vibes to me. I thought she was. I think I think she's cute. I think she's fun, bubbly. I'm sure she's going to make a great bachelorette. I just.

I didn't see it. Yeah, I'm happy for I'm not, like, talking shit about her. I just. Yeah. So now we're going to have two seasons back to back. Right. That's all.

Yes. Well it's good. It's going to be it's going to be Katie then paradise then Michelle got it necessarily. And then bachelor. Oh well bachelor. We can reconvene back in January. It's always in the beginning of the year. So we'll always bring in the New Year when Bachelor airs a couple of months in between. But basically do remember, like the season aired, it was very odd timing.

It was like September, October, November, because that was a virus.

Yeah. So I believe it's going to be around that time frame again and again. I don't really know much, but that's just what I'm kind of picking up and trying to figure out because there's no way that they're going to do bachelorette appearances at the same time. So I'm assuming it's going to be one one. One, yeah. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see Katie's season because there's just been this narrative with Bachelor that there's been a lot of virgins, there's been a lot there a lot of people who are very conservative in that way, I guess.

So to see her such, I would think she's the first one of the first or more open people talking about sex and being sex positive and things like that as a bachelorette. So that'll be interesting to see. You know, and I'm here for all the girl power that is about to become of her season, definitely. But also one thing that we haven't mentioned yet, we have to mention. I mean, how did you guys think Emmanuel did?

I think he did. Amazing.

I know we didn't it?

I thought he was phenomenal. He was phenomenal. I think the points that he made, I was just like I was so proud of him. It's so true. The conversation that him and Matt James would have would be very different if it was Chris and him and not saying that Chris couldn't handle it. But just it's a very different scenario. Right. And I really, I guess, was just. Yeah, amazing.

So I really and I really like the fact that he didn't give up on Rachel and Matt. Like, he kind of. Yeah. Like, well, are you sure if your love was that deep, do you think you could grow with her?

So I thought yeah, I thought he did. Excellent. Yes.

Hard questions in a very, um, beautiful way. And I think yes. Like you said, she would be a very different conversation with Chris Harrison. And just having though, I think, having the wherewithal to coordinate the questions in the way that he did and the follow up questions and also that I think also the silence that we saw not to go back to AFAS, but the silence that we saw was just so powerful.

And I know when I watch movies sometimes the missing of the movie, it's like if you're sitting with someone and it's silent, everyone gets weird and not normally the whole so like, scramble and be like, OK, well, guys, well, we'll come back. And he just kind of let them have that moment and let Matt have that moment of what it was.

And he was like, wow, yes. He he understood the pain that Matt was feeling. Yeah. That would have never he allowed that room.

He allowed the space and he did a really great job with that. Yes, I do think so.

And everyone would hit that moment with like them to ask questions that were digestible for everyone.

And I feel like they were kind of opened up people's perception in a way that like if you might not have understood it before, you kind of understood it now. Like, I don't know if you if you didn't feel any type of impact on it, I don't know what to say to you. But, like, I just feel like he really just put it out there for everyone to kind of understand what was going on for everybody.

You know, you're going to do that. Tatia, what are you talking about?

And our third piece of bachelor, like, made for real.

I mean, this is big. This is big. Break it down. You want to break it down for us?

Break down to the station. Co-host Here is the bay. OK, she is the bachelor. Break down. OK, so, yes, I am so freaking excited to be with Caitlyn Bristo here in New Mexico because we're going to actually be helping as mentors and support like Ultimate Girl Gang Girl Power for Katie The Bachelorette. So basically, I mean, I remember on my season when I had a lot of bachelorettes come and visit and kind of help me out, well, basically we're going to be doing the same thing.

So Katie's going to be on this journey and we're going to be there by her side whenever she needs us, essentially. So, well, maybe my like a day or two or whatnot. But honestly, we're just here to help her out. We're just mentors, if you will.

And this journey is hard. And when you have girls, it makes it a lot easier to understand what you're going through. Right. So so the clarify person will not be here this season? No, because I assume you're not be here this season.

But that doesn't mean he's not coming back so. Right. He won't be here this season. So there will be no official host. We have the girl gang, Tasha and Caitlin Bristow, who's going to be there to help her on our journey to answer these questions, to be like, look, we did this and let's help you become get a bay like us.

I mean, basically, this is basically I mean, we know how it goes, you know what I mean? And it's a very hard process to navigate. I'm sure you all can imagine. And at times you want to just ring a friend. Well, guess what? A ring, a ding ding. I'm right here. Let me help you out. OK, so not young. Are you in New Mexico right now?

I'm in New Mexico. You can tell she's been you can tell she's been in a hotel room. She's all fired up over there.

You scream and yell at you guys, this is no joke. I'm telling you, I've been here for like five weeks. I swear that's what it feels like. I think this is actually a really nice.

Advantage for Katie, like now, she really could pick your brain, could pick Caitlin's brain, that you two went through this process. So what are you guys going to be like? Good cop? Bad cop?

You sure? You sure? OK. OK. Will I be the good cop? Bad cop? Definitely. The good cop. Bad cop. Yeah. But I also like to have some fun stories and stuff so we'll see what happens.

But what kind of advice are you going to give her on. Night one. That's it. I mean, I was going to go like was going to keep this shows up, don't send them home, I mean, I will definitely say, you know, well, night one was very different for me.

So that's another reason why it's fun to also have Kaitlynn. Like, you guys have to also realize, Kaitlynn, I had very similar journeys, oddly enough, like she also shared Night One with another bachelorette.

Yeah. And so did I essentially.

I mean, the guys were already there. And then I came in and I was just like, what's up? It was very untraditional. And we're just going to keep, you know, spicing up every season. I feel like that's what we're going to be for Katie. But I am basically I'm just going to let her do her thing. But I'll definitely keep my eyes out and watch these guys and kind of just like shed light where need be.

At the end of the day, the show's freaking about love. And honestly, we want people to be happy and be in a relationship. I'm extremely happy and that's all I want for everybody else. So if I can help Katie get there, Kaitlyn's also really happy with Jason. I think we have, like, the best crew.

All right. So I'll be Katie right now. OK, so I'll do it tonight. One day. So role play.

Yes, he does the show patient. I need your advice.

Yeah. What's up? I think I love John. I think I love John. And I want to I think I just want to go home with him. Should I just do that right now? I mean, we have another bachelorette coming. So what difference does it make is I just love Jod. Oh, would you like Katie?

Oh, let's slow your roll. OK, and me like you literally have this is in the nicest way possible, a buffet of men that are vying for your heart.

Take it slow. Let's just see what you have here also.

You know, clearly going after the type that you're used to is not working out for you, so let's just be open to everything else. I mean, wow. Thank you. Thank you.

Tatia, where's Caitlin?

Somebody get me Caitlin over here. I don't know what I'm going to say, but I think that's the best part. She's like, I'm actually I feel like I'm going to get, like, very invested in her process and her journey. And I'm very excited for her. And I think this will be super fun. So there's a lot in store this season.

It's going to be frickin good, but I can't wait. I'm so happy for you and Caitlin and Katie. And I'm it was really good news to hear that at the end. And now we have to get to our click bait those the women of the week, because, I mean, I read this and I was like, whoa.

Like, we're talking about a couple who handcuffed themselves for three months to work on their relationship. Uh, what would you guys ever do? This what? I have many questions. How do we use the bathroom? How do we take showers? Right. When they make up like. Yeah.

So would you ever do this? Would you ever handcuff yourself to obey to work out what's going on in the world anymore?

You know what? First we're social distancing. Now we want to be up each other's ass, handcuff each other. Does it even at the start even realistic?

I mean, you have to go to work.

You have to eat the bathroom would be that would be the biggest problem because I'm not going to stand there while the girls go in number two or vice versa.

Yeah, that's it. And that's what that's what I do best. But I want to know that's the real thing.

Had they handled that, they maybe have like a lenient rule, like if you take a shower, you can take it off or if you go to the restroom, you can take it off because I can only see that.

So what you do is close the door with they in the article, they said that they took turns using the bathroom. That's what it said. INTIMAN It was. Mm. Yeah, yeah. That's not no, no, no. I did not say yes I will.

I'll go ahead Taisha. No, I guess it's just very interesting. I understand that in marriage, you can't just turn on and off, take it off and put it back on when you want to. And it feels good and it's like it's convenient for you. I understand that. But this is a whole nother level of like being stuck on somehow whole ball and chain to take it to a different level. And they were in a long term relationship.

So this is a Ukrainian couple. They were in a long term relationship and they were going back and forth, back and forth. They were trying to figure out their issues and figure out their problems. And what they realized is when they would argue and they would get to like a dead end, they would just shut up. But they got through a lot of different things. But my whole thing is like if it's unrealistic, if you have to be handcuffed to someone, this is not the world.

You should be handcuffed, I guess, in your heart.

And like, no, that you shouldn't have to be physically handcuffed to someone to to fix problems.

Look, I completely understand that. But I think the problem in their relationship was essentially this, that that every time they had a problem, they would break up because guess what? That's the easiest thing to do. That's a very easy thing to do. You just run out the door and I see you and you come back in two days and I am ready for you again. It's very convenient. Very and that's not a relationship. And the problem is here clearly for them is their communication.

So maybe they do love each other, but they need to work on their communication. And so maybe I still understand, like, yeah, I completely agree with you. If you have to handcuff yourself, that's not going to help the situation. But communication is where what they really need to work on, not for go in the bathroom with each other. I don't know. That's kind of weird.

But also the showers together could be hot, by the way. I mean, yes, but I mean handcuffs once in a while.

But I have to be part of your entire relay, you know, to handcuff yourself for three months. I mean, I'm going to be honest right now, it's just fucking stupid. The whole thing stops these two people. I don't know you, but no offense is a dumb idea.

But I will say this sounds like a reality show waiting to happen. Oh, my God. But this is so unrealistic.

It's so it could be a reality show, handcuffed to handcuffed for love and want to be the first guy. I want you to come first. Yes.

I think that should be a date on The Bachelor. That should be a date on The Bachelor.

You have to handcuff yourself to someone and see if you hate them or not or if you guys are so funny.

Oh, my gosh, that would be a really good date. But distance, you know, even when you I think when you're arguing with somebody, when you're when you're in a relationship and you're having an argument distance to go take a walk or go do your own thing and separate yourself is a good thing.

It's very high time. What you're. Yeah.

And you have time with your own thoughts and you can think like, hey, maybe I was wrong. Or like usually what I do is I'm like, she was wrong the entire time.

No, I'm right. But I, you know, I wouldn't need that. I need that. And I think this in a relationship now, in a relationship space is important.

That's why you always have to work on yourself, you know, all the time prior to getting in a relationship, once you're comfortable with who you are, you're just going to be a better mate, mate.

You know what, everyone? It is time for our guest. If you listen to this podcast, you probably watch The Bachelor. And if you watch The Bachelor, you don't do it without knowing this guy Nick fail. He was the bachelor. He's got a very popular podcast called Vayle Fails. Everyone, please welcome my friend Nick. Nick, how we doing? Joe, that was maybe the best introduction I've ever received, so, oh, just like the time I was actually on Viall Fails and I showed up very hungover next time and time again introduced me to be like, hey, go back and listen to click bait.

This is how I want to be introduced going forward. Thanks for the plug.

Yeah. Plug us every time. And, you know, like it was authentic and that's what we do on this podcast. We are real. All right, let's go. Let's go back. Let's talk about the finale.

OK, so let's talk about Matt and Michelle first.

What do you think of Matt and Michelle? Well, I think you got to start by talking about Matt's conversation with his mom and his brother. Right. And I think that that's where the episode started. And that really seemed to dictate, you know, everything that happened after that.

And, you know, I think the show's evolving. Right. And on one side, I've heard I've heard two different arguments. Right. And Matt's clinic closed with his mom. And I think there's a question of how much did did what Matt's mom said to him influence his decision. Right.

And then we've heard so much about Matt's story as regards to his relationship with his mom and specifically his relationship with his dad and then the relationship his mom and his dad had. Right. And how that impacted his life as a young man and how that impacted his relationship. And so, you know, one question is like, was his mom projecting some of her fears and the things that have happened to her in her life onto Matt? Right. And how much does that impact him?

On the flip side, everything Matt's mom said made total sense for literally anyone who goes on that show. Right, because it's not since six weeks to have an expectation to get engaged. Right. Like any any parent would say, hey, common sense, you don't say, you know, like if you're if you're in love.

Great. Go, go Godspeed. Go do it. But also I'm here is your your your mom, your parents, your brother to say, you know, whatever you're hearing, what's going on in this crazy world, we love you, we support you. And that also means not necessarily having to get engaged or whatever pressure you might be feeling. And so I think that created an interesting discussion. You know, it was interesting to hear Matt's mom say, it's okay, I love my side and I trust him to make his own decision.

But I'm going to tell you what I think, and I hope he makes his decision after I share my opinion, you know, so it was like clearly that relationship is something that means a lot to Matt and as many as the case with our parents, they greatly influence our decisions, you know, some more than others. And it kind of all depends on where we're at in our respective lives, right? Yeah. When I was the bachelor, if it it I'm very close with my parents.

I've always have been they've always been very influential in my life. But as I've gotten older as an adult, it's been less of tell me what you think I should do. And I'm interested in hearing your feedback. But ultimately I'm going to make my own choices. Right. And, you know, the big question is, where is Matt and his life? Is it regards to like how much influence? And that comes from his mom, but it makes for an interesting discussion.

But ultimately, that seemed to really dictate the episode. And and then you kind of went into the dates with with Michelle and and Rachel.

Well, do you think do you think that Matt. Sorry, Natasha. Do you think. Did did you think Matt was ready for marriage, watching, watching the season? No, no, I don't know.

I think that's became pretty obvious, right? I think I feel like Matt would agree. Right?

Yeah, to be honest, I don't know. Um, I you know, a lot has been discussed in terms of, you know, Matt, the announcement of Matt being the bachelor. Right. The timing of Matt being the bachelor, not having to go on The Bachelorette to become The Bachelor. So I think it's a fair question. You know, if you want to criticize from a show standpoint and, you know, the show's always making a TV show, right.

We get that it is a TV show and they do care about love. You know, what is the weight and priority is sometimes varies.

But I think they named Matt the Bachelor and then even probably the producers got to know Matt as their bachelor. How ready are you, you know, what's your dating history like? And so, you know, the world is different, right? Nowadays, we expect ourselves to have a handful of relationships and maybe have a heartbreak or two before we settle down, you know, 30 years ago. You met someone in high school or college, fell in love, and you're like, this is my person, you know?

And then there was a different expectation. So based on like today and how we find love, it seems like maybe Matt has some. You know, getting to know himself and kind of maybe get more experience and dating, so it would seem like, no, he's probably not ready and maybe this experience is the bachelor made that even more evident to him, which I think is fascinating since he was the bachelor. Yeah. Do you think after being, of course, on both sides, The Bachelorette, then The Bachelor, and then watching him as someone who's coming in and has not then we were talking about this earlier.

Do you think that they should continue with maybe breaking the wheel and maybe bringing other people in? That has not been on the other side?

Like I recognize it as a TV show. Right. I don't pretend that it's not right. And as someone who like all of us who've been on it, we it's it's very personal.

It's still our lives. It's a real life experience within an environment that's also a business. Right. And you can recognize both, even though, you know, you're personally affected by the things that go on in that world. From a show standpoint, I think we saw the benefits of why the show up until this point has had people come in with some experience, because this world is crazy and bizarre and hard to understand. And, you know, it's so hard to be the lead, as is Taisha knows, like just the expectations, the decisions, the production of it.

You know, you're really in fact, you know, they call it a lead for a lot of reasons that you're really kind of leading the show and you're leading the beats. And and it's just that much it's already a hard job. It's that much harder. And I think it's it's easier for everyone's a little bit of experience. There's also a level of authenticity we got to see with Matt being new to this. But I think it was nice to see.

But going forward, I personally would prefer them to kind of go back to casting people that we've gotten to know a little bit because what was it? Other criticism? We saw a lot we didn't get to know Matt. Right. That's true. Like now you can criticize the show a lot for a lot. Like, I thought it was nuts that they had thirty five women show up, like, I don't care who you are or whatever. Matt never got a fair shot of spending enough time.

There's already a limited amount of time and I thought that was nuts. But another side of that is the show kind of has this playbook. Right. And you can criticize a show for for not for not adapting or adjusting. But, you know, we got to know Tatia on Coltons season on Paradise. You got to know me on my two seasons of The Bachelorette and Paradise.

And so part of The Bachelorette and The Bachelor is to get to know the cast and the new people coming in. And so they had to figure out, well, we also have to introduce people to our bachelor, and that's harder to do.

And so there's only, you know, it's on two hours a week for four, 12 weeks. And so they have to and then they you know, you want drama, you want you you're trying to fit too many things into a small space. And so too many storylines. Too too many people. Yeah. So if you if you if you go back to, like, having new people come in, you're going to continue to face that criticism of we don't know who our bachelor is or a bachelorette.

What we've learned about the shows is fans are very passionate. They're going to have opinions and you're not going to make everyone happy, definitely. But I do think that is only going to get worse on that aspect. But you're right. You know, there's only and every everyone who goes on that show, every lead especially, always feels like people really get to know who they were. Right. They always they got they got fit into a silo of a certain storyline that they don't even feel that they necessarily had total control of over.

Yes. Well, and this is a show about love regardless.

I mean, I feel like people are going to have a problem with no matter if you know their storylines or if you don't get to know their story and then you know, you don't.

I don't know. People make their own perceptions, you know, like, you know, like you said, you see their storylines play out on VH1, like The Bachelor. It's like you're very kind of closed off. You kind of don't see as much personality paradice you see a lot of people be a little bit more open or whatever. And then when they are the lead, it's a totally different dynamic.

Yeah. I mean, they're also different shows like Paradise is more considered a comedy. I think whoever's editing it decide like they they allow more jokes to be told. You know, I hear that a lot from people I talk who go on The Bachelor bachelorette just like I was funny or I said this. They didn't, Aaron. I mean, here we go. We saw a season where they they they left out two dates. I mean, all of a sudden shows in the trailers and you're like, where where are you?

You know, like there's a lot of shit that doesn't make the cut. Right. And yeah, they don't they the bachelor. The Bachelorette is more of a drama, dramatic love story. And Paradise is more of a comedy. And that's why you then you see people show different sides of them. So, yeah. And everyone like, you know, everyone goes on there. And I, you know, even myself, you feel like people don't get to know you or and we all get sensitive about, you know, our own.

Appearance's. Yeah, so OK, so speaking of getting cut out, you had Bre-X on your podcast, I listen to it, she sounded great and up in arms. You guys watched the finale. How was that? What did you think of afar? Did she drop any times about how she felt about not being on since we don't have her on?

Well, she was very, you know, kind of gave me the because I was like when we started watching it Will was shot, was it? Michelle came on first. Right. And then and then Emmanuel was like, oh. Up next, we're going to talk to Rachel. And I'm just thinking in my head. Well, when are we going to see Brie? And I went to Brie. I was like, weren't you like, when do we see usually like when I was there, you know?

And I'm like, and then I'm like, were you edited out? And she's like, yeah. And and I kind of joke, you know, I kind of made a joke. Well, that's great news for me since you're on my podcast.

But I do feel bad. Right. But you got the exclusive.

Basically, it was really gracious.

And and, you know, I think I understand her frustration. Right. Like, she's got a story to tell. And it was deemed not as entertaining or for whatever reason by the producers. And there's always a lack of time. I get it right. And she was gracious. She seemed to understand that she didn't seem resentful or anything, but appropriately annoyed. I think it would be the fair thing to say, as anyone would be. And but yeah, she was it sounds like she only spoke with Emanuel.

She didn't have a sit down with Matt and didn't talk with him. And it sounded like, you know, like Michelle, you know, she talked a lot about if was you know, she she didn't have the closure from Matt that she she wanted and deserved when Matt broke up with her. And Bri felt differently for herself, where when when whatever conversation she had with Matt while filming it did in fact allow her to move on and accept Matt's decision and and be OK.

That's great. That's that's really good to hear. All right. So love that. Thank you for that, Nic.

Hey, thank you for asking, Natasha.

And so what are your thoughts now that we have not one, but two bachelorettes?

I think it's fantastic. I'm a huge Michelle fan. I always like pointing out there's certain things that happen on the show. And again, we have a very impassioned fans and I think we're all grateful for the passion that the fans have most of the time, even though sometimes you're just like beating your head against the wall. But I like to point out small things, because when Patnaik fans will be like, you know, is the show real? Is this show fake?

Is it all scripted from beginning to end? Like, do you really have any choices? I think let's look at the Michelle story as an example of often the producers are kind of figuring out as they go, Michelle, every time we see her, we fell more in love with her. She's America's sweetheart. And yet, Michelle, they put her on the sideline in a hotel for two weeks while the drama unfolded. If they knew how awesome Michelle was, she would have been there night frickin one.

Right. And so, you know, I think this is a perfect example as like they get it wrong. You know, I'm sure there were producers like Michelle is going to be great and other producers like, I don't know, like maybe not like I mean, Ben and Higgins. And I joke about like there are a lot of producers who didn't want us on the show. They thought we'd be boring, really. And so that happens. And so I'm a big Michelle fan.

I feel like we haven't seen enough of Michelle. So thank God we get to see a whole season of her. Yeah, Katie was obviously very entertaining. I enjoyed watching her. She's certainly someone who's she's progressive, she's sex positive, she's outspoken. I think these are all good things to have in a bachelorette. And certainly I don't think Katie is going to have any issue with, you know, confronting any men with any problems that arise. And I think that makes for a great bachelorette.

And listen, we've had twenty five seasons of The Bachelor. We've had what, what? What. No, Bachelorette were you. This is seventeen. Seventeen. So we're behind the eight ball. Right. So like this is giving more women a chance to be the lead and I think that's great. And now we get to recap this damn show basically every week for the foreseeable future.

Yeah, I don't know how I feel about that. What did you think of Emmanuel? I thought he did a great job. I mean, these are big shoes to fill. We've had a single host for how many seasons? Yeah, I thought he did a great job. He asked some very tough questions. It's probably something that could have been three hours long and unedited. I think a lot of people would have liked to have seen that. But again, this is the team that they have.

It's TV. And so he he looked rather calm and in the zone and for something that there's a lot of pressure on him to deliver and I feel like he delivered Great Neck. We play a little game with you. We play a little rapid fire game. I'd love to.

We are going to play a game. We like to play a game to get to know our guests a little more on that. But I'm sure everyone who listen to this podcast knows about our next. Up next is the name of this game where you're going to say some rapid fire words and you're going to say first thing that comes to mind. OK, let's go. First one rose ceremony. The ceremony is supposed to be rapid fire here, you got it.

I never see Nick off his game, so I don't know what's going on right now.

No, no, because I'm well, I'm a I'm an over thinker, so I'm not going to rapid fire.

Awkwardly Quiet. OK. Good. All right. The Bachelorette. Entertaining anchor Matt James. Excellent bachelor. Oh, champagne. Overrated. Yes, agreed. Engagement ring is overrated.

Katie Thurston, I didn't hear you. I'm sorry. Katie Thurston. Outspoken. Hot tub. Well, I used to say overrated, but then my new house has a hot tub and I quite enjoy it. Like back backyard. Well, I'll tell you what, hot tub, great warm tub, overrated.

And it's only warm tubs and Bachelor Nation.

Michelle Young, wonderful America's sweetheart. And then we have love. Um. Misunderstood. Oh, Emmanuel Acho. Rising star. Grocery store, Joe. Top ten smile. Thanks, Melissa. We got in this thing next to you. Wait a minute.

And we were smiling for a picture. I am I'm I think it's important to point out the things that we are envious by. So it doesn't consumers and I am envious of your smile.

Say, Nick, at this point, you can say anything you want about me that's bad as long as you recognize that I have a beautiful smile.

That's all it matters. All right, Nick, we'll just you know, if I do snark at your job doesn't mean I hate you. But before we before we let you go, can you tell our listeners where they could follow you?

Well, I do have a podcast. It's called Vile Files. If you can find it wherever you can find a podcast.

And yet, you know, I'm on Instagram. What is it, Nick? Vile. Yeah, Twitter. Vile Nickless. Twenty eight. And I'm snap. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm talking.

Yeah. What's your take to this Nick. While still trying to figure out my my my tip top. I'm you know, I've done some of those like trends that are out there and then it just feels awkward because like what the fuck am I doing? I think we all feel that way when we do tech docs, to be honest with you.

But this makes it cool. Yeah, I'm just trying to find my groove, you know, if. Yeah, yeah, I looked at John Mayer is someone who's, you know, I can't play the guitar.

He really he gets you know, he he's very funny and entertaining, but he definitely cheats with the guitar because whenever, you know, it's like I always joke with Jaden Tanner, you know, contents are probably every time they have like they're like, oh, I don't know what to post. I just throw their kid in there, you know, like crash, you know, John Mayer throws the guitar in there. You know, like I said, I got an assistant.

You know, it's just like, Cindy, come here, go chat. And people with dogs, they do that to you? That people. Yes, they'll say. Yes, it helps. All right. All right, guys, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

Good luck in there. Yeah. Thank you so much.

You know, I have to say, it's really fun having Nic on, because he does watch this and he does have different insight. And also he's like Benally, like myself. So it's interesting to see, like, his take on everything. But I don't know, it was he gave a really good perspective on Mathiesen.

Yeah. He talks he talked to so many people because he has a podcast as well. He talks to so many people that have been on the show and he's been doing it for so long.

And so I feel like he really looks at the show like he was breaking down from the producer's standpoint, from this from a contestant as a as a because he was a contestant and he also was a lead. And so he has all these different intricacies and insights of how he looks at the show. And I think he's very knowledgeable about all of this, all the things that we have going on here. So I'm always happy to have him as well.

And I went on his podcast and it was fun. It was a lot of fun.

Yeah, I think he he knows how to break down the show and really, really understand the show.

I just want to say thank you to our listeners. Today was a really fun episode. I don't know, I, I actually really enjoy this episode because I feel like we all share our opinions.

And there was just so much going on with these last two episodes of The Bachelor this season. But I think we're all looking forward to The Bachelorette coming up.

And I just want to say thank you to everybody who listened, as well as Nicole Val, for coming on and fill in some of the guests, but also just on his own.

Yes.

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