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You brought a poop. Here comes Liz. You were the poop guy.

Here comes Liz. What happened the last time? Oh, you don't like this? You don't like me talking? Does this bother you? No. You do. The more you do that, the more I talk.

Hi, Liz. We're just working through some things here. Welcome to Cone and O'Brien. He's a fan.

Hi, Liz. How are you?

Hi. I'm great. How are you doing?

I'm doing great. It's so nice to meet you. Where are you calling us from?

Providence, Rhode Island.

Oh, Providence. I know Providence. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts.

And then when I was a kid, we would spend the summers staying at my grandfather's house. He was a retired policeman from Worcester, Mass. And so he had a place in Ms. Quamica, Rhode Island, down by the State Beach.

Oh, lovely.

And so we would, every year, pack up our clunky station wagon with six kids, parakeets, two dogs, a cat, my grandma, like everybody.

We would just all cram into this thing with everything we would need for three weeks.

And it was this mecca. We would drive down through Providence, and usually stop off there and get a bite to eat, and then go all the rest of the way to Ms. Quamacut. So a lot of fond memories of Providence.

I'm so glad. I think it's great here.

It's really nice. It's a great place. And what How do you do?

I'm a children's librarians.

Oh, you are? Good for you. I am. That's great. I love that. And tell us a little bit about...

God, it's been so long. I used to love going to the library when I was a kid. Big shock I wasn't a jock, but I did love going and hanging out in the library.

And in fact, there was a really good library in Westerly, Rhode Island that I used to go to.

Oh, that's a beautiful library.

It's gorgeous. It looks like a castle. Yeah, it looks like a castle, and I would go in there. Other kids would be playing at the beach, but because there's something called the Sun that's in the sky, I would say, Please, mother, take me to the library.

Hey, learn, I shall.

Well, he should have gotten a really big book and take that to the beach. Exactly.

I used to do that. I used to check out some giant almanac, and then get tied underneath it at the beach. That's a huge atlas. Yeah, but I loved it there.

I remember there was always a contest every summer. They had this giant 3D map with mountains and everything and a river. And everyone, you signed up and you got a little canoe with a little person in it.

And each time you read a book, you advanced along the river. That's so cute.

The whole idea was by the end of the summer, who would be in the lead? And you could see other canoes were in the lead, and you'd want to read more books to try and get ahead of And then I eventually gave up and just moved my canoe over the mountain. I portaged.

How did you find that?

How did you know if you read the books?

Could you cheat? They didn't, and you could cheat.

It's all honor system in the public library.

I know. When I hear honor system, I say, See you, suckers. This canoe is going over the mountain.

It's the library. It's usually pretty obvious when that's happening.

But we don't worry about it.

If one kid hops his canoe over the mountain, you got 20 more who are seeing a lot. You don't worry about it.

Yeah, I was actually I was arrested, so I don't like to talk about it.

Oh, no. Yeah, I did six months in Juvy.

Gosh, the library was the origin of your delinquency.

It really was. It's where it all started. When I would tell the other kids in Juvy what I was there for, that didn't go over well. I moved my canoe. Get him.

It's why you're so tough. I went to Overland with my canoe.

I told him I read Copernicus, but I hadn't. The beating that ensued lasted six weeks. Okay, so Liz. Yes. You work at a library, a children's library in Providence. What's a children's library like these days? Are kids still reading? I hope they are. I hope they're not on their phones and their machines.

Yeah, I usually say that kids are probably reading more than most adults, frankly. We're too busy to read. I do. I see a lot of kids excited about the books about libraries. And the Children's Library, I I think is a wonderful community resource now. Gone are the days where you had to shush your mouth and read in silence. It's playtime and getting excited about the books.

Wait a minute. Children's libraries are loud now?

They are loud, my friend.

Like disco clubs? Like thumping house music?

Not quite at a rave level.

Is that your house music?

Is that what your house music is? Sona, don't get off on a tangent here.

Sorry, I was just- But so anyway, it sounds like it- We've never heard it before. It's very loud. It's very loud. Sona, I hope you're taking your kids to libraries.

We do. We take them a lot. And we actually went to a different library once, and they're two and a half, and they came in yelling. I was sweating. I was so nervous, but no one told them to be quiet. Then we looked over and there's toys, and there's a whole play area in this one library, and I was like, Maybe this is okay. But I personally couldn't handle it, so we went to our normal regular library. We knew they could be loud.

Let me ask you something, Liz. No one goes, Shh. There's not a mean old woman named Mrs Crumbottom who goes, Shh.

I have a patron named Mrs Crumbottom who shushes me. Oh, good. But I would never shush anyone as a librarians. Wow. No, Especially for kids, because play is so important. That's why we let toddlers totdle around while we're reading aloud. They're still getting stuff, but they need to engage in that way.

That's incredible.

I love that. I love that. What are the popular books right now? Obviously, Harry Potter was a big thing.

Still pretty big, honestly.

Yeah, I hope so.

Those are good books.

Any Tom Clancy for the kids?

Oh, Matt.

Clancy. Well, we do have Tom Clancy, but if they're reading it, it's in another room, not mine. Actually, there's a book called Dog Man. It is never on my shelf. It's so popular. It's a graphic novel series about a policeman who has the head of a dog and the body of a man. Wait, how did that happen? It happened. It's a little dark. It starts out a little dark. He was in a terrible accident. It was a car accident. And the dog's body died, but his head was in good shape. The policeman's head expired, and his body, though, still pretty good shape.

Oh, yeah. Bodies do fine without the head.

Yeah, you don't need that. This is a scientific book.

Most bodies live on for a long time after the brain is gone. So wait a minute. So that's a very dark opening. It is a little dark, but the rest of it's all laughs. Okay. And do kids get upset by that dark opening?

No, not at all. One of the clever devices of the book is it's actually a comic within a comic. When you open it, you meet these two kids who are writing the Dog Man comic. So it's all fiction. You don't have to worry about it. And then it's just all police dog shenanigans. It is fiction. I'm sorry, I should have specified that.

Okay, good. Okay, thank you for clearing that up.

Yeah, Sona's wondering why she hadn't read about this in the paper. This is pretty incredible. This should have been front-page news. So Dog Man's the big thing, huh? One of the things that would be- Dog Man is real big. It'd be funny if Dog Man was like... Because it sounds like it's funny and kids like it. It's got a good sense of humor. But it'd be great, I I think if they just had the through line was that Dog Man's in constant pain.

Oh, sure. I'd love to see a gritty Phil Noir Dog Man series.

He's just taking a lot of morphine and opium to get through. Because it hurts when you have your body, when you have a dog's head attached to your body.

I also feel two different instincts happening. The instincts of a dog, the instincts of a man, can they be one?

Does he lift his leg when he pees? I mean, what happens? Who's the dominant? Oh, yeah.

There's a lot of dog behavior. Really? I would say that- Does he sniff butts?

Probably.

That's why he goes to close.

He has the ability to solve mysteries, but he's still a dog. He likes dog bones. He gets excited. He doesn't have a tail to wag, but I think if he did, he would.

We all have a tail to wag when you think about it.

Does he poop in a toilet?

Wait, okay. Well, I don't know about that. Let's elevate this.

Because it's the body. It's a human body. But he's eating dog food. So how is the body digesting the dog food? Is he got to do everything dog-related that you do with your head, but everything human-related you do with your body.

I'm sure that Dave Filme has gotten all of his life.

But your body- You know what's interesting, Liz? Are we going to digest dog food? Can we eat dog- You know what's interesting? Does he do it doggy style?

You know what's interesting, Liz, is that Sona is asking all the questions a five-year-old would ask.

I really do feel like you're back at your library. But I don't understand.

Does he pooh?

Where does he pooh? Because even if he does it doggy style, I've never gotten that question from a five-year-old.

They don't mention that in the book?

They will. Wait till they turn eight. How does he do it? Yeah. Okay.

Then they'll come back and follow up. Follow-up question. Does he shower?

Okay, just chill.

I'm sorry.

But just chill. You have to read it. You're in the library.

I really do. I feel like I should.

You'll like it.

It's pictures, mostly. Liz.

You made a joke, but that's true. No, it is true. Yeah, I know. I don't see you often. Oh, I better go get my book.

She had me a graphic novel.

Oh, man, I laughed way too hard. Anyway, Liz, I think it's wonderful. And what do you do when a kid gets out of hand? Does that ever happen, or the kid's pretty well-behaved?

We have meltdowns, of course, in the library, but luckily, the kids can't be there on their own for the most part, so we let the parents deal with it, which is nice.

I have a question to ask you, and we don't really get political on this show, but it is this thing that you hear about all the time that's happening in libraries where parents come marching in, and they think that something's a little woke in a book.

They think that maybe be a dog man, likes Bernie Sanders in one panel, and they're upset, and they want the book banned from the library.

Have you had to encounter any of that?

Oh, absolutely. I have an annual pride display I put up, and there are always complaints about that, which is Very funny to me because our Pride collection is probably about 100 books out of 30,000 books I have in the children's room. But just that little batch seems to upset some people. I think folks forget that if they don't like those books, they don't have to read them. They don't have to check them out. But there's definitely other people in the community that those books are for. I've dealt with that a little bit. Luckily, our community is very supportive of the library, so it's never gotten further than complaints. But I do know other places that's just not the case. And I just feel so sorry for these library workers.

Oh, yeah. There's sometimes...

I mean, I think it's such a noble profession. I think teaching is such a noble profession. I think librarians, people that choose to try and expand a child's horizons as a lifetime's occupation are really doing magical work. And then I always feel badly when suddenly they're caught up in some crazy conspiracy theory, that these books are trying to destroy minds or something, or they have a political agenda, and I think it can go way too far.

I agree, and I'm thrilled to hear that you've got our backs, Konan.

Oh, I don't.

No. No, no, no.

Oh, no. No, no. The minute there's any trouble, I'll completely retreat.

I thought that Juvy had toughened you up a little bit.

No, no.

No, no. Those scars healed a long time ago. No, I do like to think I have your backs.

I I really do. I think books are not the enemy, and we've got bigger problems. That's what I think.

Yeah, I agree. And that's why we're here as librarians, actually. If you're family, if you're like, I'm not ready for these books, that's fine. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. We'll help you find what you need, and then we keep other stuff on the shelves to help other people find what they need.

I have such happy memories of the little tiny library. I went to a K through three school in Brooklyn, Mass, called the Baldwin School, and it had this tiny library, and I would go in there, and I can remember to this day some of the books I read in there. And some of them were dark and a little spooky, but that made them so great.

Yeah, there was one about three highwaymen robbers.

It would rob coaches, and it was so beautifully illustrated. And then it and they had little blunderbust muskets. And then at one point, they find a baby and raise it.

I don't know. I just remember thinking, this is such a weird dark story, but I love it.

Oh, no, I totally get it.

And kids can handle it.

They can handle the darker fairy tales.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's within the boundaries of a book, and so it's a way to test the waters with darker material. Kids love that stuff, and I think, and they'll continue to love it into adulthood. I know I do.

Like the original Brothers Grim stuff is very dark. Absolutely. There's people being fattened up to be eaten.

There's mothers feeding fathers their own children. That happens in the Brothers Grim in the Juniper tree. Oh, yeah.

I don't know that one.

We got some cannibalism in there. Cannibalism? Oh, that's an amazing fairytale. Yeah, in the Juniper tree. Oh, evil stepmother hates the little boy she's raising. She tricks her daughter into thinking she killed the boy, but the stepmother did it. She feeds the kid to dad. But then there's a whole redemptive cycle where the kid turns into a bird and sings about his murder, and he ends up dropping a millstone on the stepmother like you do.

You know what it is? It's an allegory for DNA evidence. What? Beyond the grave, the child screamed his innocence, and the father paid the price or the mother.

Okay. That's what the Brothers Grim had in mind, do you think? Yes.

I think they foresaw that DNA evidence, even after the death, will incriminate the murderer. Yes, that's about DNA. My mind is shut to any other interpretation. How did she feed him? Wow. Do you read these books as well? Are there modern fairy tales that you're into? Are there modern interpretations of fairy tales that you like?

Oh, yeah. Fairytales are probably my favorite genre, so I love it all. Although I tend to read the old stuff because I just really love those dark fairy tales. I like a fairy tale that's a little fucked up.

Yeah. All the books behind you seem to have tales in the title.

Absolutely. Oh, yeah. I've got all of the greats up there, plus some more obscure stuff.

So you like a fucked up fairy tale? I love it all.

I love a good fucked up fairy tale, Ronan.

Do characters in fucked up fairy tales ever just say to themselves, Whoa, this is fucked up?

They don't, and I think maybe if they did, they'd end up in much better situations. You're not going to get to get out of those situations. No, I mean, there's fucked up versions of some of our most popular fairy tales.

Give me an example. I want to hear these because I might want to read them. Yeah.

Okay. So, of course, everyone knows Cinderella, one of our most beloved fairy tales of all time. Well, there are some versions in East Asia where there's a whole second half of the Cinderella story. She has her magical helper friend, she meets her prince. But then the step family wants revenge. So the stepmother murders Cinderella. Cinderella is murdered in her own story. Cinderella now starts to haunt the step family from beyond the grave, relentlessly. I know what you did last summer. It's all bad for them. Eventually, she's resurrected, usually with a magical item of some kind. And then she has her true revenge, where she boils her stepsister alive and feeds that to her stepmother, who dies from the shock.

I see these things again and again and again. Cannibalism and redemption. And also, this is the format for John Wick. It's just this happens, but then, oh, you think it's over? It's not over. Shit just got real. I mean, this is what happens with the Empire Strikes Back. I'm trying to get Gourly into the conversation.

I'm in now.

Now I understand. But you know, Oh, you think this is over? No, The Empire strikes back. But then, so yes, we see-I land Imperial Walker's on Hoth.

I know. He just said the title of the movie with more conviction as if he was getting more into it, but it didn't seem like you were elaborating it all. It's a hollow sail. You were just like, Just like the Empire strikes back, where the Empire strikes back.

Yeah. That's my interpretation after a lot of thought about the Empire strikes back, and having watched it many times, that's my interpretation of what happens and what it's really all about, which is the Empire striking back.

When people tell you who they are, believe them.

Yeah, exactly. I took a test once and they said, What happens when the Empire strikes back? And I said, The Empire strikes back.

What happens in Return of the Jedi?

You're not wrong. The Jedi Return.

Oh, and a new hope?

Oh, yeah, there really is a new hope. And I took that test and I aced it, and I was accepted to Williams College.

What happens in the Fantom Menace?

Oh, man, that menace is fantoming, and he's a real phantom of a menace. Anyway, my point is, any story where someone boils someone else and makes someone eat that person, that's a good story.

Yeah, it's a good story. It's ageless.

It's a good way to dispose of the body.

Oh, incredible way to dispose of the body. No one ever thinks of that. They're like, What do I do with this body? I don't know. Looks to me to be 140 pounds of protein. You get a piece. You know What do I mean? What do I do with all this protein in my bathtub? I don't know. You got a big refrigerator? I do. What's your point? You got a skillet? I've got lots of skillets.

Later, this restaurant's amazing.

Oh, no.

I'm a murderer, and I'm on the Atkins diet.

What do I do? You look amazing, man. You've lost so much weight, but it looks like you're getting a lot of protein. I hear. I don't see you with your friends anymore. But you seem to have all of their shoes.

Yeah, that's a true crime element to fairytales.

All right, Liz, do you have a question for me? Because I think I've wasted your time enough with my foolishness, and I apologize.

I do have a question. Oh, so fairytales are made up of stock characters, right? Like your princess, your wise old crone, your whatever. And I wondered, if you landed in a fairytale universe, what role do you think you would fulfill in that fairytale?

I'm such a...

The ogre.

Just Sona. My feature is really that distorted?

No, it's more about how you terrorize people.

Oh, I do not terrorize.

You're a large presence, and you terrorize people.

I've heard that you hang out at bridges and bully goats all the I live under a bridge.

I live under a bridge, but just because the savings are incredible, and it's not technically against the length. Then when people want to cross the bridge, I ask them questions three. Which, apparently, guess what? There's no... Yeah, I'd be a mischievous troll. I want to be someone who's asking questions three and has little... I'm an imp, I'm bothering- Like a trickster. A trickster, yes. And then if they don't answer my questions, they go flying off the bridge to their doom.

And I live in a little hut in the woods, and people are freaked out by me, but I'm funny. And I also have a profitable podcast.

Podcast is very profitable.

That makes a lot sense.

Yeah, because we do ads, and you see if you monetize the ads, then that's where the profit is.

Then, of course, if you get enough other podcasts together, you can have a podcast company.

Anyway, I'm getting off track a little bit.

Team Troll. That would be the name of your podcast company. Team troll.

Team troll.

No, I would be one of these guys.

Answer me these questions three. In the morning, it walks with four legs. In the evening, it wears a German World War I helmet. Who be he?

Don't ask for the answer because I don't have it.

None of them have an answer. He has the body of a worm with the face of Winston Churchill. Nine eggs a day he eats.

Who be he? These are really I'm naturally really good at these.

Is it the thing, though, that there is no answer just so you can eat them?

No one gets off this fucking bridge. No one gets over the bridge.

He's a Walnut who knew Eleanor Roosevelt, but never really met her.

Oh, that's Franklin.

Who be he?

Damn it, you get to cross the bridge.

As long as no one calls him out, he can keep doing it.

I'm going to start. I'm going to do that on the way home when I get to the 405 freeway. I'm going to get out of my car, stop all traffic, and say, Answer me these questions three.

What if you did, though, on the news, 'Conan O'Brien' was- Traffic packed up for 65 miles.

No one can pass. Police say they can't get close, but 'Conan O'Brien' is asking people questions three. No one seems to be able to answer him, and he's beating them with sticks.

Oh my God. You just got shot.

Yeah, we just shot him from a helicopter. I'm shouting up with the helicopter.

Answer me these questions three. A worthy bird it be, but no wings do I see.

Blam. Don't know if Brian was shot today. And rightly so.

You have a fairytale.

Liz, I think you got your answer. A mischievous troll who's shot by the LAPD from a helicopter on the 405 freeway.

And it was a dog man that shot him.

And dog man. Yeah, dog man. It was a dog man, the marksman. Liz, you're very nice, and I'm very impressed with what you're doing with your life.

I think that's very cool. Thank you so much.

Just think about the generations of kids who are going to be influenced by you, and then all those years of them coming back as older people and saying, Thank you.

That's so cool. I love that.

I hope so. That's the aim.

Yeah, unless they're ungrateful baskets.

You never know.

Or if they skip their canoe ahead and end up in juvie. We do the best we can. I had to win that race.

I wasn't reading fast enough. I I didn't finish, Hey, God, it's me, Margaret. Such a good book.

If there is a book that'll stop you, it's that one.

Oh, the minute the thing I saw where it was going, I had to skip my canoe. All right. So nice to talk to you, Liz. Be well, and next time in Providence, I'll buy you a Mike's Hard Lemonade.

How's that?

Sounds fantastic.

All right. You take care. Have a great one.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Cessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, nick Liao, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Your Wolf. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our Supervising producer is Erin Blair, and our Associate Talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnik. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kohn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Konan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It, too, could be featured on a future episode. If you haven't already, please subscribe to Konan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded. This has been a Team Coco in association with EarWolf.