Stop punishing yourself with bland chalky protein shakes and fuel your fitness with the best protein in the game at GNC. We've got the hottest brands and flavors that legit taste like cookies. Your favorite cereal, indulgent desserts, and more. It's on at GNC. Hi, my name is Zack Woods. And I feel pygmy about being Conan O'Brien's friend. What? Pygmy, as someone who is self-consciously quirky as a way of differentiating themselves from the masses so that people are like, Oh, she's interesting.

In this scenario, you're the pick me girl.

Yeah, I'm the pick me girl. I'm going to just feign a casual nonchalance while underneath, I'm desperate for your approval and the approval of everybody here.

Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking loose, climb the Hey there.

Welcome to Konan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I am the before mentioned Konan O'Brien, mysterious man from the past, possibly the future, joined by Matt Gourley.

You're from the future?

I could be. We just don't know.

I've got a beef with the future.

No, in the future, everything's great. We solve all those problems people are So they banished you from the future? I was the last to exist. They fixed global warming. All wars have stopped. There's no income inequality. And then they looked around and said, What else? And I was standing there. I said, Yeah, What else? The next thing I knew, I was being tossed into a time machine. So here I am anyway. And Sona is not with us today. She's a little under the weather, but we are joined by her replacement. And who can really replace Sona, so you've already failed. David Hopping. Hi.

How are you? Good, are you? Good to see you. I also like that you didn't say that you're in the present. You're only in the past and the future.

I've never been truly present. That's true. It really hurt me as an actor.

We should mention that Sona will be on the interview in the final segment. She's just not here for this intro today. Oh, yes, exactly. She'll be better in a minute. She'll be better in a minute. She'll be better. A couple of minutes.

She's just in the restroom. She's being treated in the future where all diseases have been cured, and then she's being rocketed back to us. She'll be glowing and wearing an acrylic suit I want to mention something very quickly. It was announced over the weekend, I'm very excited about this, that my new travel series, a series of specials, is going to be dropping on Max, or you can call it HBO Max.

Can you now? I think it's just Max, Daddy-O.

Oh, is it? You can't say HBO Max anymore? Well, I just want to educate. In case there's some old foggy out there like me who's listening going, What is this, Max? I'm going to be, Yeah, it's coming out and it's been announced. Missed over the weekend that it's going to be dropping. That's what the kids say, dropping. But they still say HBO, but they say dropping. No. Max is dropping, HBO Coming Soon to a Theater Near You with clock table. Conan O'Brien, Must Go is the name of the series. I like it. I'm proud of it, and it's dropping on April 18th.

This is very exciting. I've seen the intro to the first episode. I don't think I can oversell it by saying- You just did. No, I don't think it can be done. It's tremendous.

Oh, I'm glad you like it. And of course, you're in it as well. That's what I'm saying. It's tremendous. But no, I think you've seen- I've seen all of them.

I think it's the best thing you've ever done.

Well, that's really nice of you. I'm very happy with it. If you like me, I think you'll like these shows on Max. If you don't like me, don't watch them because I can't help you. So much, Konan? I love anyone who's listening to this podcast who really hates Konan O'Brien. It's just aversion therapy they're doing. But anyway, so that's my quick message. We'll be talking about it much more as we get closer to April 18th. Conan O'Brien must go on max. How are you, Matt? I'm good. Yeah.

I'm Sleep deprived. I'm not going to lie. I'm not good. Have you tried tons of caffeine in the morning?

For me? What's a lot of caffeine for you?

Maybe three cups would be too much caffeine. I often have one or two cups a day.

What's the symptom that you show if you Do you have too much caffeine? Do you get heart palpitations? Are you nervous? Are you sweating?

I feel like I turned into an '80s cocaine stockbroker who's just loose and tight, jittery guy.

You've got suspenders on?

Yeah, with a blue shirt, white collar.

Basically everything from Wall Street. Yes, exactly. Are you a fan of the movie Wall Street?

Have you watched that a lot? Yeah, I think so.

Have we talked about the moment? I didn't know I had to come down on either side of that. Honestly, I wasn't prepared. One of my favorite line readings ever is Charlie Sheen is in the elevator with his dad, Martin Sheen. I preface this by saying, I like the movie. I really love Martin Sheen. But he does this very interesting line reading where he's arguing with his son, who he thinks has lost his head chasing these big bucks. And he says, I've never measured a man's success by the size of his wallet. That's the line is written in the script. But he says, I've never measured a man's success by the size of his wallet.

Oh my God.

And it's fantastic. I'm always imagining that he's holding a... You can't see because it's a chest up shot, that he's holding a bowling ball, that Martin Sheen is holding a bowling ball and it slips out and lands on his toe. And he didn't intend that, but it lands on his toe as he's about to just say, Wallah. He doesn't intend to. Never measured a man's success by the side of his slip. What? Jesus, that hurts. Cut. Let's try it again. No, we're using it. Anyway, we got to get into it. We have a wonderful show today. Love this fellow. Just love this fellow. My guest today-Truly wonderful guy. I really do. He's a wonderful guy, and he's brilliantly funny, and he's a magical man, in my opinion. He's a hilarious actor who started on the HBO series Silicon Valley. Now he has a new comedy series, which he co-created and stars in, called In the No. It's very funny. It's available on Peacock. Thrilled here today. Zack Woods. Welcome. You and I, we got to talk about this right away. First of all, I thoroughly enjoy you so much that I was waiting for you to show up downstairs, which I never do with guests, but I was like a happy Happy Puppy waiting for Zack Woods to show up.

You're hilarious, very funny fellow, and I always love hanging out with you and ripping with you. So I was there to guide your car into the parking spot. Yes.

And I will say that you described yourself as a happy puppy. The first image of your face I saw was peaking with a predatory glance from behind the stucco. And then I pulled up and you immediately told me you had to cancel because today was not a good day and there would never be a good day.

Yes, I did. Now, listen, you have to understand that's my way of showing someone I love them. Believe me, that's interesting. You should have heard my proposal to Liza. What's the opposite of a Pygmy girl?

Listen, I reject you, man. Did you have a big proposal? I don't know if you're willing to talk about this even, but when you propose, did you have a proposal proposal or were you just like, want to get hitched?

I had a ring in my pocket. Is that a ring on your pocket? You know that thing?

What? Or do you just have a terrible phallic injury? Yeah.

Is that a ring in your pocket or do you have a small circular metallic penis with a little nodule that resembles a jewel? That was my proposal. Can it be both? And will you marry me?

Spend the rest of your life with this small empty chode.

But with a little diamond nub on it, which I'm serious. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm proud of my little ring penis. No, I did have a... I had a day I was going to do it, and I had the ring on me. I didn't have an elaborate. Some people do things like they tie it to the dog's collar, and they call the dog in the room, or they bake it into a souffle. One of my siblings had an incredibly elaborate one that involved meeting up with her, his fiance, who's lovely, as now my sister-in-law, on the top of a temple, an Aztec temple, when he wasn't even supposed to be in country and being there at the same time. But I think he got the wrong temple. But he eventually found her and they figured it out. But anyway, I didn't want it to be too elaborate, so I didn't do one of those. That makes sense. I think maybe this was a mistake, but I handed her the ring and I said, You win.

Oh, no.

Oh, no. Well, I just Big Star, Top of Every Woman's List of If Only I Could. That was probably the wrong way to go.

Can I tell you something? You probably won't like this because I know you're self-effacingly saying Top of Every Woman's List. I don't think I've ever had a your friend who didn't confess to having had a crush on you.

Oh, no. Why don't these things never seep back to me?

I think you see what you look for. My guess is that the sexual energy that's flooding in your direction is being blocked out by some color blindness, but for- And thick sweaters.

Yeah. I always buy sweaters that absorb and repel any sexuality coming my way. Well, it's funny. We should talk about this because you and I, we have some similarities. We are both tall and I think men. We're gangly in our youth. Would you say that? You were still quite gangly. I've put on a few, but you're- No, I've gained weight, but it doesn't...

The gangliness is just a... Yeah, it's just buried gangliness, but It's still gangly. Bobby Moynihan, the actor, once described someone's body as looking like a lowercase B, where it's all thin and gangly up top, but then a little punch. I do feel like a lowercase B body. But yeah, I'm gangly. I feel like I don't remember. I was thinking about, I can't remember who said this, but someone describes someone as being like a Daddy Longlegs, where there's just this little disk of cerebral energy and then legs.

Yes, that's me.

That's how I feel, too.

I've always said, I have legs that just go on forever. And then someone said as I was leaving the shop, Oh, we need a torso on that thing. And someone said, Well, we don't have a whole torso. Let's just throw half of a torso over there. So they did. And then they said, Wouldn't it be funny if there was a giant paper machete head? And they threw that on top. And I went out the door. But I've always been self-conscious. I always try and wear things that break up the fact that my waist is in the middle of my chest.

Do you know what I mean? You wear cumperbonds even in non-formal situations. I wear them at pool parties.

I wear a formal cumperbund.

I heard this thing once. I was in an acting class, which is a shameful thing to admit, but I was. They did a scene from Frankenstein where the monster goes back. He's fucked stuff up. He's killed people, whatever. He goes back to the doctor's lab and he goes, Why did you make me? He goes, I'm so ugly. I don't fit in. Why did you make me? And the doctor says, I just wanted to see if I could. The monster is like, You wanted to see if you could? And then he goes, Then you make me another and you make her as ugly and detestable as I because I need someone to love, and I need someone to love me. I thought, That's so heartbreaking and beautiful. I told my father that, and he's like, Oh, I think that's a story about kids, like Frankenstein's made from the pieces of a bunch of old dead people, which is essentially what a kid is in a genetic way. That question of why, why did you bring me here? It hangs over every parent. When you were talking about being assembled with a paper machete head and legs and no torso, it made me think of the Frankenstein story.

But it's funny, which, by the way, I just read for the first time the original Frankenstein, which is nothing like the movies, absolutely nothing like the movies and really powerful, but very, very different. Not what you'd think. Anyway, I'm just going to throw that out there, and I want to remind people, you should read. Reading is important. The more you know. That was a little starburst going by. I used to have a TV show where we could make the starburst go by, and I'm like, blah, blah, blah. Well, first of all, I don't want to embarrass you, but you're a very attractive fellow. Thank you. Jesus. I'm just curious because I know I saw you, I think for the first time, I remembered seeing you on The Office. Then I have to say a show that my son and I really bonded over was Silicon Valley, which, as you know, I've talked to you about it, but I adored Silicon Valley. Absolutely adored it. Your character, Jared, was so funny and so delightful. So I told my son today, Oh, that I'd be seeing you. And he doesn't respect me at all, but I saw respect in his eyes.

So it was very cool.

That makes me so happy. I mean, okay, I don't know how much Ernest this, this can accommodate. But I do want to... You can cut it out. You edit this, okay?

I don't think we have the money to edit. Oh, really? It's tough times over here. No, we're making... A ton of cash is coming in, but it's going out rapidly because we're in. Right up your nose. Well, I don't want to say it Specifically, it's not just my nose, but- But he actually just snorts money. Yeah. God. I shred it and then I snort it.

You can't see this, but he has a terribly deviated septum. Just little pieces of Ben Franklin's face. It's really horrible. But I was going to say this. One of the first times I ever saw you, because I don't know if people know this, in early days of Upright Citizens Brigade in New York, before it became this factory for people who would then go on to populate all kinds of comedy shows, no one made any money. No one People couldn't support themselves, and everyone was a weirdo and not getting cast in whatever TV shows were being made. So Konan's show was how so many people kept themselves afloat. And the first time I ever filmed anything for television, I was cast on your show to play Leprechaun with Marfan syndrome.

That's my comedy, which was then cut.

And then I also did a bit where I had to make out with somebody while Chris Matthews narrated it. And then I think that also got cut. But the point is, I got a paycheck.

You get paid.

You get paid either way. It was huge. You really were like the Medici of freecazoid New York comedians where you're keeping us in our shitty apartments.

I will say that It makes me really happy. I've heard that from other people. It was not a selfless act because we needed all these really talented performers to do incredibly bizarre things. So it worked out so nicely that at that there was just this incredible wealth. I mean, Amy Poehler used to play Andy Richter's Sister on the show, and she wasn't on SNL. And we tried to use her once a week, and she played his sister who wore a giant headgear. We'd give her a script that I'd like to think was a solid B, and I watched her every time take it to an A plus plus, and then she would go into these incredibly ornate speeches.

Where she'd be invoking Norse gods.

Norse gods and screaming. But she was so amazing. But later, I was saying to... Reminding Amy, I didn't do that to be nice. We were lucky to have you. We were lucky to have you. We were lucky to have all these incredibly talented people. But what's interesting to me is there's a couple of people that I see in comedy that had a similar build to me when I was coming up, and I always want to bond with them. Stephen Merchant, same thing. I think of you, Stephen Merchant. There's a couple of us praying Mantis men out there that get into comedy.

And white, white men. That's what you're drawn to. That's what you're saying. Yes. Strong White men.

I'm trying to- Strong.

I'm sorry. That's the part that's objectionable. Not the flagrant racism that I'm assigning to you. But just the self-description is strong. That's the thing.

I think it's about time white men caught a break. I've said this many times.

No, but can I say, I also, again, respectfully dissent because you have been supportive of me in ways that it's not like we're hanging out going fishing on the weekends. You've just extended your platform, your support, your praise in a way that is completely benefitless. I made a short film that you promoted. That was how it got any audience at all. You brought me on your show before anyone wanted me on any talk shows. And I don't think this is unique to me. I think you're someone who has a real Comedy Robin hood vibe in this way. That's nice.

I have to say it just comes from when people really make me laugh, I just want to be around them. I want them to do well, and then I want them to cast me in their works. Sorry. That's the long con.

Is there something specific that you- I know someday you're going to make a movie and there's going to be a part that I'm not right for at all.

I'm going to guilt you into giving it to me, and it's going to really hurt the movie.

You and me. Can I ask you? This is us or something. Now I'm being selfish.

No, no.

This is the idea. We talk. We talk. I know. Okay.

To be fair, though, if I had known you were going to praise him this much, I wouldn't have come in.

Because it's gross. Yeah. He doesn't want me to get anything good.

I was talking to a woman who writes on The Succession, and she said, British people don't like award shows because they don't like getting awards, and they don't like seeing other people get awards.

That's hilarious. I love the honesty of that, too.

People have an allergy to having any an interior life and also to having a body. It's like people in the UK. I love a lot of the people I met and worked with in the UK, but the feeling is like, you can't cop to having ambition or aggression, any of that stuff, because it's so unseemly. But in the process of trying to obfuscate what you're actually feeling inside, it can get weird. It can feel cunning in a way. When I would come back from England to LA, where everyone is so just unabashedly self-promotional, I found it to be a relief because it's like, okay, at least you're telling me what a hero you are to my face instead of hiding whatever self-regard you feel behind this. I like people who are... I have a friend who talks a lot about all the famous people he knows because he's delighted to know so many famous people. It's relaxing to me because I'm like, oh, yeah, I know where you stand. It's like, can you believe it? Sarah Paulson loves me. I'm like, I can. You're a nice guy. She just called me to ask if I wanted to come to Art Basel.

And you're like, Great. I don't know.

Look at this list of numbers on my phone. I do this a lot. Even around here, I'll apologize nine times before I say the name. It's cool that I bumped in and was in a restaurant and I saw, Okay, this is lame, but I did see. And then you say famous person's name and you think, Well, no, I'm living in... I work in this industry. Why am I apologizing 10 times?

Because it almost then starts to feel like that's its own... I don't know. It's like a... You know how air fresheners can make smells worse? Yes. It's the social version of that where there's an air freshener that doesn't quite cover up what you're doing. So then it feels like this... If you feel like you have to... Okay. Money, I think, is a really interesting one. Where people don't want to talk about money because it's so uncomfortable. But sometimes when I'm around people who have lots and lots of money and they try to spare me from the acknowledgement that they're rich, that's one of the only times I'm like, oh, do you feel like your money makes you better than me because you're protecting me from the fact that you have money? But I'm glad you have money. That's great. Good for you. Yeah. I'm not threatened by it unless the implication is like, oh, I don't want him to know because he'll feel like such a little gutter snipe. And then I'm like, wait a second. Saving money on your weekly shop Shop just got easier with SuperValue online shopping. Visit supervalue. Ie and make real savings with hundreds of price cuts across our range.

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One of my things that I've been doing for a while, well, you've experienced as Sona, is I go way the other way as a bit. Sona, I remember when she got you, you moved in. It was with you and Carrie.

It was me and Kerry got an apartment. You got an apartment.

Like a small apartment. It was very nice in Santa Monica, but a small apartment that my assistant and her, someone else who worked on the show, a producer on the show, got. I remember it coming in and I was like, This is beautiful. Is it okay if I go upstairs? Sona was like, Konan, you know there's no upstairs. I would act like, Oh, come on, seriously. But Anyway, at least let me see the screening room. She'd be like, You're a dick. I'd say, I just want to check it out.

Where's the gym? Where's your gym? Where do you work out?

I just want to see the gym for a second. She'd be like, All right, fuck you. Then I'd say, Okay, if you don't want me to see it, is it okay if I just go and check out the indoor pool? But it was the only…

It's when sometimes you'll get your wallet and you'll just sneeze and all this cash will pop.

Oh, my God. That's the hardest I've ever seen Adam Adam Sacks is in the room with us right now. Adam Sacks is a very genteel fellow. Adam hadn't known me that long. What I had done is I was talking about... I was preparing, but he didn't know. But I was just saying, Look, I don't know. I just feel like I'm anyone else here, and I don't really feel like I'm any different than I was in high school. I went to a public high school. My parents didn't have much money, and we just grew up in a middle class house. I just don't think, and I just think I haven't changed. Then I sneezzed very convincingly and loudly. What I had done is I I had a money clip filled with money, and I had rolled it up and hit it in my hand. I went, and this giant wad of money came out my nose and shot on the floor. I was like, Oh, damn it. Every time I sneeze, a lot of money comes out. Adam covered his... What were you saying? Oh, my God.

Crying now, just remembering it.

I remember it many times. He was crying and shrieking. I was on my chair. I was yelling, covering my face.

We had only known each other maybe for a couple of months at that point.

Yeah, you really didn't know me. Sometimes my comfort zone is something that's so insanely over the top, Warner Brothers' cartoony, wrong, that it's okay. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Also, it's funny that you said that he snorts money because that- It makes sense.

It's clear now that I do. Yeah.

This is like, look, this is, again, you're not going to like this because it's more... But I was thinking a lot. I was very excited to come here, Pick Me, Girl. And another thing that I was thinking about, too, is that I feel like I've met a lot of people in comedy who are lampoon, very cerebral, very smart, and often a bit aggressive. And one thing that I've noticed over the course of the time that I've been watching you is it's really interesting. I think sometimes people are so smart and acidic, get more so over time. But you've somehow... I feel like you're warmer and warmer. Not that you weren't warm before, I feel like you feel like... I think I was a little scared the first time I met you because I was like, this guy's funnier than me and smarter, and I'm better educated, and it's very brainy and fast. And now I feel like I could be a little bit of a puddle or a little sloppy and not feel scared. Does that make any sense?

I never thought that I... I will say that I am happier at this stage of my life than I was at... We've talked about this, but my 20s, 30s, 40s, just so much pressure all the time. I like to think that I was a good person and nice to people, but I definitely am a happier person now than I was then because you just think, Okay, this is who I am, and I'm doing the best I can. You come to this, you settle a little bit in this really nice way. Also, I think smart is way overrated. I agree. Smart is so overrated. Sometimes I went to this school where there were tons of smart people who are much smarter than me. In my career in show business, I've met tons of people who are smarter than me. They probably have a much higher IQ. I don't credit smart with a lot.

Did you feel like you were more dazzled by intelligence when you were younger, or were you always skeptical of it?

No, I think I probably was more impressed. You're more impressed with a lot of things when you're younger. When you're younger, you're impressed with a lot of things. Then I always would see other people and think, Oh, man, I really want to be... I put everybody else on a pedestal. As you know, you degrade yourself when you do that. I was constantly not thinking that much of myself and thinking that these other people were gods.

I also think that reverence isolates both the revered and the whatever, the reverencer, I don't know, the reverer.

Because- Man, you're not smart at all.

I see.

Fuck. I just realized I'm so much smarter than you.

No, don't push me out of here.

Don't push me out.

He's hitting me.

He Did you guys hear that? The reverencer?

Oh, no.

I knew it was going to happen.

I knew it was going to happen.

I posed as a warm guy that wanted contact with you. Do you think I wanted to meet you outside and lead your car in? No. I think other people are probably smarter than me. He bought it. I'm the smartest fucking man that ever lived. Sorry. That was crazy. What a weird sting operation.

Just to lure people in with a promise of not being smart. Someone told me, of all these quotes, I can't remember who told me them, but someone told me The Fame is a mask that destroys the face. I think-Oh, I know that one. Who said that? I think it was Avril Lavigne, maybe. But anyway, someone said it.

I'm pretty sure it was Kaya Gerber. That's what it was. It was Kaya Gerber.

So there's a variation that says celebrity is a mask that eats into the face.

Yeah, eats into the face. John Updike. Yeah, John Updike.

But anyway.

And he had him in his face was just riddled with sores and open wounds because he got too famous.

It was really anabiotic, resistant, Mercy, that ate his face, and he blamed it.

He blamed it on his famous an author.

It's like, You're not that famous, John Updike. You're fine. No one's recognizing you.

He went around You know Freddy Kruger. Later in life, he wore a Freddy Kruger mask and went around and went, Of course, I'm John Updike. I wrote the Rabbit series, and I can't take off this mask.

I do want to say, no joke, have you met... What is happening between you two?

Just look at me like, Did you catch that joke?

I went down a John Updike rabbit hole as Freddy, and I look over and Someone was looking at me like she was watching a man go underwater for the ninth time. Never to return. Look at him. He's drowning.

You felt like he was looking to see like, Hey, I knew Is it one rather than the other?

I usually give him whatever validation he's looking for, but sometimes I just don't and sometimes I just stare at.

John, up there, wearing a mask, showing up at a party, he wasn't doing it for you.

I just want to say, I actually, through this show, met Kyah Gerber, who She's way more literate than me by a factor of about a million.

Yeah, she was in my mind because I just watched an episode of your show. She's very funny. I'm going to bring up your show now because you just did, and then we can go on and talk about other stuff. But you have done this show called In the No, and you did it with Mike Judge. It is really funny and really well done. I think you've made six of them. Is that right? Yeah, there's six. Okay, I watched the first one before you got here, and I was like, Oh, I'm totally down with this show. Takes place at NPR, and this is going to reel you in. It's NPR. Zack is the main character who's completely full of himself named Lauren.

Yeah, Lauren Caspian.

Lauren Caspian, who is the, I think, third or fourth most popular NPR correspondent.

Probably fourth, but claims third.

Yeah. It's Puppets. It's like, I want to almost Stop motion, right? Stop motion Puppets. It's really funny. It's so well written, and It's so good. And of course, it's skewering a lot of the stuff that I think needs skewering. I mean, so many things need skewering on both sides of the spectrum. But it is so funny. I was watching it and I was thinking, this makes me really happy. But one of the parts that I really like is that your character in his interviews, the interviews are on Zoom, so it's all puppets. But then when you're talking to whoever one of your guests are, it's really them on a Zoom. And so, Kaya Gerber happened to be in that episode.

She was great and very game. I mean, it's interesting. I've never done stop motion before, but it's the people who did the Guillermo del Toro Pinocchio. So these are the best stop motion animators in the world. It's crazy to see it because one thing I didn't realize when we started, but I guess I feel like people have a tendency to winnow themselves down to one thing or to winnow each other down to one thing, this reductive identity thing where it's like, you are this one thing, or you're this one thing you did or one thing you believe, et cetera. Something that I always look for in stories and try to include is the contradictory bird's nest of a person. One thing that's so cool about stop motion is because each character is played by 30 different animators plus the voice actor, there's a multifacetedness that's bred into the process. You get all of these different people's little ticks and imaginations and facial features and stuff in the process. I thought that was really fun. I'd I've never experienced that before. It was also created by Brandon Gardner, who's my writing partner and who listens to this show religiously.

I thought Brandon Gardner was really the driving force behind it.

Okay, well, let's not get carried away because I- He's clearly...

No, he just felt like he's the- He's an amazing human being. Yeah, no, he's like a giant, powerful Evan Rudd motor shooting the boat forward. Then you and Mike Judge have little tiny straws that you're dipping in the water to try and help push it forward.

But he's also a great guy, though.

I love him.

He's just like an amazing guy. I love him. Guess what? He knows a podcast when he Yes.

Okay. Well, I mean, I don't think we're just a pointless ancillary rowing team on the back of his catamaran.

I think you guys are attractive appendages on a powerful engine that is, what's his name again? No, but one of the things that it's something that I'm really looking forward to seeing more in the show is you and one of your coworkers are always trying to outwoke and outPC each other. And it makes for really good comedy because you will be saying, well, there's an unhoused person, and everyone's very sanctimonious. And then she's accusing you of being insensitive because you didn't use the latest term. And I thought, This is comedy that needs to be done right now.

Well, it's funny. In the neighborhood where we're recording this, I guess a couple of years ago, I was walking around and it's like a Tony neighborhood, and I passed a house that probably must cost $4 million or something. And in the front yard, there was a sign that said, Defund the police. Then right next to it was an ADT home security decal that advertised that they have armed guards who are on patrols. I was like, Defund the police because you have hired mercenaries who are And I was like- With shoot to kill order. Exactly. And then I felt very smug about it. And then I went to go get them Tiger and ordered a whatever $19 matcha and was my own hellish version of the same person I was just looking down on. So I just think there's so much... Sorry, I'm spitting. There's so much the cosmetic progressive ideology where it's a personal enhancement as opposed to a commitment that you're making to action. It's a way of beautifying yourself, but you never really walk the walk. I think about that all the time of like, if you look at my credit card statements and you were to look at my journal entries, there's a terrible disparity between what I supposedly care about and what I swipe my card on.

Sure.

Is the plan to make more than one season? You're going to wait and see.

Yeah, I guess it depends if the network wants to make more. But we've been daydreaming about it. I mean, at this point, we're just trying to get it out into the world, and that's been preoccupying, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Yeah, well.

That's a boring answer.

Yeah, that's a terrible answer. Can we get your partner in here?

Can I do something? Yeah, I'm going to text Brandon.

Can we get Brandon in here?

Let's talk about Brandon more? Can I just say something? This was intended to be an interview with Brandon. Oh, shit. But he is so in demand. We couldn't get him.

Yeah. Damn it, Brandon.

There was just no getting him. He's, I guess, on some party with Kyya Gerber and Sia and everyone else who's named. Sia? Yeah.

That's a cool party. It's just the three of them, though.

Just the three of them. It's in a very large cheesecake factory that they bought out and it's empty.

Man, I want to go. I love the cheesecake factory.

They have so many choices.

I really do. Can Can I tell you, though? I made a reservation at the Cheese Factory once. I showed up and they were like, The way is 45 minutes. I was like, Oh, no, I have a reservation. She said, No, that's just an estimate. What? I was like, What does that mean? The reservations at Cheese Factory are a lie and a fraud.

You have to always wait.

Let's get that word out.

Wait a minute. I have a confession. What? My stepbrother is a regional manager for- Is that true? Yeah, Cheese Factory.

I haven't even brought in cheesecake.

He lives in Dallas. God, I hate that.

They would melt on the way.

I don't think he works for them anymore.

But good.

We're not picking a fight with Cheese Factory.

I'm telling you, I'm the Bob Woodward of the Cheesecake Factory.

I'm going to be on Zack side for a second. I think if you tell people you've got a reservation, you've got to honor that. Of course. Now look, I respect that Cheesecake Factory. I've never seen a menu like that. It's a menu where you think of something in your head. If it's not on that menu, I'll blow my brains out. Literally like an alarm clock covered in caramel that sits on a blitz, and then there's a Bologna sauce. Page 17.

I'd like the Buffalo wings and a better relationship with my father, please.

That's page 9 and page 32.

I once asked them if it was possible if I came in and theoretically ordered one of everything on the menu, could you even produce that much food in enough time? And they said that they could. I don't know. Do you think that's true?

They have a 3D printer back there.

They're just constantly... And giant pneumatic tubes firing foods from all around the world at hyper speed. You were quite young when you started doing improv, weren't you?

Yeah, I was 16. I wanted to be a jazz musician when I was a kid.

Friendship over. Friendship begun. There we do. I just checked you off for friendship over. What did you play? What instrument?

I played trumpet. The way I got hooked on jazz, like all great jazz musicians, was a CD CD-ROM video game about the history of jazz.

I thought you were going to say heroine.

My parents got me. It was called Living Jazz. What? Yeah.

It was hosted- That's how you got into jazz? Yeah. Not hanging out in smoky clubs? No. As a five-year-old?

No. All the greats, it was... I switched from Incarta to Living Jazz. Living Jazz had the format of a first-person shooter, but you were totally passive But you're wandering through the history of jazz. That's the way it works. That's fantastic. Yes. You're like, I'm going to go to Storyville and watch Louis Armstrong. I'm going to go to Chicago after the great migration. There's Lester Young.

Wait a minute. That's incredible. Do you ever get to shoot up the place?

That would be amazing if you play enough living jazz. You just get to be...

What do they call it? At one point, I wanted to transition to Grand Theft Auto. That's all. There's a lot of jazz history, but then at a certain point, you notice, I think I'm in a strip That's so funny.

I just hit Ella Fitzgerald with a baseball bat.

People are really mad at me online.

Oh, God. That's how I got into jazz. Then I wanted to be a jazz musician, but then I got braces, and I couldn't play anymore because it messed up my embassure. But my parents took me because I had to get braces, and They took me to Dr. Chops, who was this- Come on.

Was that a jazz musician?

Yeah. Well, he was a jazz dentist. He was Winter Marcellus's dentist. We went to visit him and said, Is there anything that can be done? He said, No, but this toothpaste is $30, and you should buy that. And so we did. And then I went back home, and the guy who gave me braces, I feel like I've talked about this at some point, but he had a life-size mural of himself in a lab coat putting braces the animals in the jungle. And then he also had a portrait of himself dressed as a dentist working on himself dressed as Superman. So this guy was a fascinating character.

Yeah. I mean, we got to talk to him, too. We got to get him in here.

I feel like any time I allude to someone, you would prefer that they were here. I would just say anyone, anyone but.

But no, but this is crazy to me, which is that you got braces and they can't make a special mouthpiece that goes over your... Or They were just trying to discourage you from playing the trumpet.

Maybe that was it. My parents got tired of it. But I would take pliers and rip out the wire because I would get so frustrated and I wanted to play. But then I just gave up, and I had all this free time where I used to be practicing trumpet. My brother had gone to college in New York, and he'd gone to an early ASCAT at UCB, the Upright Citizens Brigade, and he told me about it, and I thought, Oh, that sounds fun. I would take the train up to New York from Pennsylvania, where I grew up, and I took classes. Back then, the Upright Citizens Upright Citizens Brigade was in this dingy ex-strip club where... You remember this? Oh, yeah, definitely. They had cleaned out- He remembers the strip club.

Yeah, they cleaned out a strip club. Definitely. They cleaned out the strip club and turned it into a small black box theater.

That's right. But they would still sometimes find condoms and stuff because I guess it was a house of ill repute. Then also, I guess there was a mix of... Someone told me that there was, I guess for some reason, the strip club was popular with his seeds. Sometimes these Hasidic guys would come in and sit down thinking a strip show was about to start, but then they'd just be stuck in Brett Gelman's one-man show or whatever. You'd just end up watching alt-comedy for an hour and they couldn't leave. Just the idea of these Hasidic dudes just watching. It makes me laugh. Anyway.

Yeah, I performed. I did some stuff with UCB back in the day, and I remember going down to that theater, and they would do a thing where you just go out and do a monolog based on something someone and shouted out in the audience. And I remembered finding it incredibly fun and therapeutic.

Have you ever had the experience of oversharing? Have you ever done a monolog or an interview or something and then had that vulnerability hangover thing where you're like, I didn't want to talk about that, but I did.

I talk so much. I probably have, but I don't know that I've ever come to you, Matt, and said, take out that part where I talked about my My younger sister beating me.

That was exactly the thing you asked me to take out.

I was just embarrassed that my younger sister could beat me so easily.

No, I don't remember. Throughout the course of your life, too. It wasn't an isolated incident.

She was three and I was 15. She totally just was hitting me through walls and then falling me into that room and then punching me through another wall. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so. Do you?

Sometimes. Do you guys have that?

Daily. Really? Yeah, I think so.

Sona has admitted to many any crimes that she committed.

I used to shoplift. Really? Yeah, my parents were horrified.

Can I ask you about that? Because I have so many questions about that, but was it the thrill of shoplifting or was it like you wanted the item? Was it you wanted to shoplift or you wanted the thing?

It was the thrill. The first thing I saw was a $0.45 sticker book from Sanrio, and I could get that. I could have afforded it at that time, but I just was like, I'm just going to butt it in my body.

And scrunchies.

And scrunchies and hair things. I would steal things and I would I would put them on my head like a hairband, and I would walk in front of the customer service reps. That was a thrill. But I never stole a bunch of stuff and ran out.

When I met Sona, she was running down Olympic Boulevard holding a Samsung flat screen, a very large one.

Then I robbed you. Remember? That's right. I beat you with it, and I took everything you had.

You smashed it over my head, ruining the flat screen, and then took, robbed me of $8, which really was stupid because the flat was worth so much more. But yeah, I'm one of those people that the way I was raised was someone's always like, God is always watching. Every now and then I would put gum in my mouth and I would be walking along and crinkle up the tiny little trident rapper into a tiny little ball and just drop it on the sidewalk and keep walking. And then I would stop and walk back, and pick it up. And it's not that I'm the best person in the world. It's just that I thought that, I can't have that hanging over me. I had a therapist tell me once, years ago, you have the largest conscience of any... Which is probably a shock to you guys, but he said, You have the largest conscience of anyone I've ever talked to. Those things, the idea of taking even... Stealing one AlkaSeltzer from a drug store, not because I'm better than you, because I'm superior to you.

It's an important clarification. I mean, it's a really interesting thing. I think there was a store where I grew up where if you stole, they would either call the police or they would take a picture of you with the item that you stole, and then they would put that picture up in the grocery store. So it's this humiliation.

It also feels a little bit like Salem, Massachusetts, 1650. This is the way we will shame people, and then they will behave or putting people in stocks. It's a public humiliation, which is something that maybe used to work. I don't know. We should do more of it. No. Okay.

I thought you were saying that's not the way to go.

No, I think people should be ashamed.

You're being... You saw the Crucible, that play about the... Yeah. You were like, That's aspirational.

I thought the Crucible by Arthur Miller was a how-to. I did. I said, Okay, I'm down with that. Shame on ye. Shame. Remember when I tried to dunk you in water to see if you were a witch? Yes. And all this hair product floated to the surface. Oh, come on. Well, you use a lot. Why? You use a lot. I have curly hair, dude. I know, but various waxes and oils, come on. No, what do you mean?

It's frizzy if I don't. Why do you have to bring that up?

I don't know. I was out of control.

I think there's no shame in it. I think someone told me... I wonder if the shame thing works as a deterrent because someone told me that, again, these are unsighted, probably bullshit stories, but that shoplifting in 19th century London was a big epidemic. So they made it a hanging of fence to shoplift. And the place, so they have these big public hangings, and those public hangings was where there was the most- Shop lifting and stuff.

Yeah, because everyone's... It was a great place to... And also, I think that was back when you could get shipped off to Australia for taking a loaf of bread. That's it. If you were starving, yeah. Then you're, Boohoo, Australia. Have you been to Australia? It's amazing there. I wish I had been shipped off. Yeah, instead, we went to America and went to Central Massachusetts.

Okay. Connie, come back. Hey, buddy.

Come back, Connie.

It's our country, too, man.

Hey, sorry, man. I blacked out for a second. I'm just saying if they had sent me to Australia, which is where we should have been sent- You would have surfed? No, yeah. I'd have a V-shaped torso right now. I'd have a six-pack. I'd look like a Hemsworth if I had gone. I would.

Yeah, I would. Yeah, I would. Yeah, I would. Yeah, I would.

I would have lips instead of this keeping gash for a mouth. I'd have eyes that were the right size instead of these beady little rat orbs. They You should have shipped me off to Australia. But no, we had to go to Sturbridge.

Oh, my God. I've never heard the word Sturbridge with so much phénom. I know.

Sturbridge. Shout out to Sturbridge. It's a very lovely place.

My dad told me once. This was so nice because I made this short film that's about a therapist. He's a therapist. He said this thing to me once that I thought was so sweet where he was like, he said, I know you love me and you can have it all. He was like, If you can tell a story about anything from our family from my vantage point, and I trust you to handle it humanely. That's so sweet. Damn.

I did not get that shit from my parents. My one message my mother made very clear that I understood and got was the O'Briens were to be told of as lace curtain, respectable Irish people who were upstanding members of the community, and my whole career has been tearing I'm putting that down. Well, that's so interesting.

I have an uncle who got into researching the family's history, and I guess my great grandmother came to escape the Tsar and the pogroms and stuff in Russia. I think she was a sex worker in the Lower East Side. She was by herself. She was a teenager. And then she married a Jewish gangster and a jewel thief who eventually got killed in Chicago, but she divorced him first. And they had a very- This is amazing. It's crazy, right? And then it's so funny how you just try to wash the stink of the old country off you as fast as possible, because then my grandfather changed the name from Woodensky to Woodensky to Woodensky to Woodensky. Started talking with a fake British accent, apparently, smoked a pipe. And you just try to ape this respectability as fast as you can.

I thought you were a Protestant earl. I thought you were landed gentry.

Mission accomplished.

From Oxfordshire. I swear to God. I was like, Oh, they're growing pretty tall there in Oxfordshire. I could talk to you for seven hours. I really could, but I have to respect your time because you're a man with things to do.

Also, we got Brandon coming in.

Oh, God damn it. Oh, yes.

Brandon.

Choke on it, Brandon. Choke on it, baby.

Let me just mention again, In the No, it's a really funny show. It's out now, and it is on Peacock. It is very unusual. It's original, and it's really funny. It's really funny, so check it out.

I will carry that with me for a long time. Thanks for saying that.

Well, I meant it. It came from my heart and from part of my brain that has things, the control of the voice.

What's happening? Oh, my God.

Those are your dying words?

Yeah, we're witnessing in real time.

Oh, God. She's gone.

Oh, my God.

I was trying to say- That drafted up so well, and then you kept talking.

What I'm trying to say is it came from the heart, but then I also wanted to credit the speech portion of my brain. Because when people say it came from the heart, I'm like, Yeah, okay, but But without the speech portion of your brain, what the fuck? So I think the heart gets too much credit. So anyway- From your mouth? From my mouth.

It's coming from your mouth.

That caping hole with no lips. Sturbridge, I'm here, bitch. Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

I want to I'll tell you what we were just talking about in the studio, and I insisted, let's turn on. I said, let's activate the microphones. Eduardo, turn them on. This is what we were just talking about. I made a declaration that I'm pretty sure I could take anybody in this room in a physical fight, except, I said, Bley, I don't think I could take you because you work out all the time.Thank you very much.You could. I don't think I could. Then everyone started to get into it like, No, you couldn't take Eduardo. You said more than that. Yeah. You said I'd fight you without my hands. Yes, well, I know that you're a huge- And I still think he'd win. Yeah. No, I think you're a huge soccer fan. You love Lionel Messi. It's Lionel, by the way. I just think you'd probably, in the back of your mind, think, I can't use my hands. I've got to get him with my feet. And then I just lay you out. Then Adam, I'm sorry, but it would be over very quickly. I disagree.

I think Adam's the quiet prize fighter.

Have you been in many physical fights?

Very few.

Very few.

Sona, I think, rightfully said that she couldn't see me working up enough rage for the fight.

Yeah, I think, first of all, you remind me, and the listener is probably thinking, Well, we can't picture this, Adam Sacks. Imagine a milder Michael Serra. Is that fair? Even milder and not as strong. I don't know. Michael Serra is on steroids compared to-No, but is Adam's tall and light.

I think-Do you want to arm wrestle across the table?

Oh, yes. Come on. No, I can't. This rotator cuff. Oh, really?

I'd like to see this. My money's on this guy right here.

Well, wait a minute. Whoever wins an arm wrestling struggle does not win the fight.

I'm just saying- It is a one indicator of strength. It doesn't mean I would beat you in a fight, but it means I'd beat you in a single feet of strength.

Well, this thing's on the way. No. But listen, let's keep the conversation going for a bit first, okay? And then we'll see if this so-called test of fighting aptitude gets us there. Every time you're in a stressful situation, or let's say you're walking down the street with your wife and some The fug stands in the way and says, Give me your money, you're going to say, Will I wrestle and see who gets my gold? Is that what you'll say?

It came to mind, we can figure out other ways to test-How about I fight you?

I fight you, but you're blindfolded. I can't do that It's miced up. It's easier to sit at the table. What about now, Matt, when you see me, when you see you coming after me, I know you're ageist and stuff, but come on. I mean, look at this guy.

No, you look great. You're super fit. Free range. I want to say this. The only thing I've got going in my corner is a desperate need to prove something to you, my father figure. Yes. That might be enough to take me over the top.

Also, I'm betting, just because I know you got a lot of flea markets and you love to buy weird things. I bet you have a Flemish suit of armor at home.

Probably some antique brass Knuckle. Yeah. Oh, yeah. A girl with a knife cane.

You have all kinds of weapons, ironically.

What's an ironic weapon?

Like a Bumber shoot that has a little- That's what I just said.a little knife that comes out. That's what I literally just said. I know, but it comes out. But one that has a James Bond. That's what I just said. You didn't say one that has a little knife that comes out. I did. Did you? I did. Did he say that? Yes. Oh, I think I would lose this fight. I wouldn't even know I was in a fight. I'm telling you, as my body grows stronger, and it does every day, ladies, I think my mind is going. I I didn't hear you say that. But then again, I was yelling at you and I wasn't really listening.

You need your mind. You can't just be fleet of foot. You need your mind in a fight. Yeah.

And coordination. You have no coordination. You have no coordination.

Let's get to the bigger thing. I think Sona could take you.

I can easily take you.

You would have the rage. I do have the rage. I will say this. An angry Sona beats everyone in this room. I think we're all agreed. I've seen you when your blood is up and you are the Khalisi. It's insane. The dragons, the whole thing.

But you don't have Yes, you are a strong person.

I have a lot of inner rage.

You do, but you also, you don't have very much coordination. I think you'd be doing a lot of bits. I would do bits. You'd be putting the pen and be like, Hey, mustache pen.

Yes, I would do bits as I fought, which I think is very impressive. I manage to do bits when I fight people.

I don't think that is impressive, and I think you get beaten up.

Unless it's a distracting tactic.

It wouldn't be distracting. It's a lot of me using glasses. If I have a pen, I make it a mustache, or I make it like, I'm a walrus with Yeah, you did the Walrus guy.

With one tusk.

I'm a walrus with one tusk.

There's only one way to decide this, and that is right now. Fight Club. Yeah, battle royale. It's the six of us.

Why don't you guys go right now?

Okay, so what are you doing? Trying to swing at you.

Already, I feel like I don't know anything about arm wrestling technique, but I can tell it's not right.

I know nothing about arm wrestling. All right. I don't think it's a chest of strength. All right, on your marks. We hold these hands. Ready? Wait, what are you guys doing?

Hold the bottom. Wait, what are you doing? Try to say something.

Matt reached over and held my other hand.

This is over the top rules. If we don't have the little joysticks.

Wait, what?

But why did you hold my hand? This is what you do. Hey, do you want to get one milkshake and two straws? Hey, how about we both start on different ends of a strand of spaghetti and move our way out of the middle?

Have you people never arm-wrestled with someone you loved dearly and wanted to get closer to?

Can I say something else? Sona, give me your hand. He held my hand and he did a little bit of that. It was a little bit of a rub. No, you do this. No, that's on That's on the side.

That's not in the middle. That's on the side.

There's no where for your arm to go.

That's blocking, man.

A disagreement has broken out in Chess Club is what's happening.

This is the weirdest... I have never seen this technique. My microphone is over here. What are you doing with this one? Wait, hold on.

Here we go. Ready?

When? Okay, but... Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You're on this side of the table pushing that way. This is Garly fucked up.

Garly won easily.

No, but you saw what he did. I Let's do it on this side of the table.

There's no way. Well, let's switch places then.

Arm wrestling. No, just stay there, but get here. This is chaos.

Here we go. Ready? Yeah. Wait, no. When? When? When? When? One to one.

One to one. One to one. Hold his other hand, Soda. I'm not doing shit. And go. Wait, no. You're okay? What What the fuck is wrong with you? What the fuck is wrong with you? Can't you arm wrestle? Oh my God, look at that.

He broke my skin.

Dapte him with your pen.

Here's the thing. Dirty. You have a poison-ticked umbrella. When I said I would win. What I'm telling you is I would win. I would use anything in the room to win. Yeah, you know what?

You would. I think you would. I think you're the best cheater.

I don't call it cheating. Is it cheating when Jason Bourne uses something in the kitchen when the Russian attacks him and beats him? That's not cheating.

I just wanted to say he does use a pen, but he uses the pointy nib, and you just took the blunt curvy end.

Because I didn't...

Look at that.

Matt, I didn't want to hurt you. Do you realize if I'd use the sharp? I thought about that. You did.

You could have killed me.

I would like, my dream is that all of you attack me at once.

That's my dream, too.

Okay. I think we all... That's so weird. I think we all have the same dream.

You all attack me at once, and then I just become this like, Wurly gig, this red tornado. There's potatoes in there and fist. Then there's single shots of each of you flying up against the wall. And Eduardo, you hit the wall, and then you go like, do you hear birds and you slowly sink to the bottom? And then you hit the wall and your hair has turned jet black, Bley.

Guys, he's begging us to attack him. This is our one chance to take this man down.

I'm giving you... Listen, it doesn't even have to be now. You're allowed to attack me at any time. I'm like Clouseau. Clouseau and Kato. Yeah, I just want to... I love the idea. Do you have to see it coming or can we Ninja style it? He wanted Ninja. Oh, I'd like to see you try, Eduardo. I can hear you coming a mile away, muttering the latest soccer scores.

That's what you do, Eduardo. That's what you do.

This is everybody down to. Arsenal, two. Two? That's a score? Ridiculous. Manchester, one. I always hear you before I see you. I do think that when powered by rage or if I feel that my career is at stake, then I become a whirligig.

Yeah, but you don't feel that. So when you don't feel those things, you're powerless.

Yeah, I'd be killed quickly. Yeah, okay.

At least you know that.

I do feel like you, and this is not a joke, I do feel like there is some superpower that activates when you're shooting a remote.

Yes.

Or we're doing a bit. We were If I can say this, we were in Thailand, and it was 108- Well, that was a sex trip.

You don't talk about that. Oh, you mean for the new HBO Max show? The new HBO Max show. But don't talk about the other time we went to Thailand. That really gets his rage.

The second time we went to Thailand, it was 108 degrees. And even people who live there were dying. And not only did you outside do a whole kickboxing thing, a very physical for, I think, two hours, you Also, we went to a climbing gym and you climbed to the top.

Well, my thing is I've always been able to... If I think it's going to be funny, you can shoot me. I don't want to put this out there. With a glass, with a fake bullet. No, but if I think it's going to be funny, I can do things. You will walk on water. No, that's making me Christlike. Okay, sorry. I think I'm more of a Buddha. All seeing, all knowing, omniscient, big belly. I think that, yes, I need those stakes. Otherwise, yeah, I would collapse immediately. Yeah, I think I'm a tissue man, a man made of tissue. But let's see, you're all welcome to attack me at any time.

We should attack you off camera is what you're saying.

Or whatever you want to do. If you want to attack me. Would your brothers kick your ass? First of all, that's just rude. Secondly, yes. Yeah, for sure. Neil, bigger than me, much stronger than me. But actually, Luke and I together couldn't take Neil. We were these two small countries in the Ottoman Empire that banded together to try and take on a huge empire. He could still take us, and he would just laugh and throw us around the room. I think maybe a secret to why I'm so hostile. Who can know? Who can never know?

Did you pick on Justin because he was so little?

I would never do that. Justin, if you're listening, my apologies. For 15 years of hell. I had to go to college, so I had to stop. Okay, good. No, I would play with Justin all the time. He's our youngest. But I would play... My games were insane. I mean, it's like he was trapped with a madman. So he would say, Can we play cops and robbers? And I'd say, Sure. And so I'd be the robber and he'd be the cop. Then he'd say, You're under arrest. And I'd say, Well, okay, I'm suing you now. And he'd be like, What? And I'd set up a table and say, You need to fill out these forms because I think you had no right, and I think you avoided my constitutional rights. And then I remembered it ended once with him. I said, You have to go into this prison because you've been taken off the police force. This is like 1981. He said, You have to go into this prison. And I said, The guy who shares his son with you is a robot who's there to spy on you. And he was like, What's happening? I just want to play cops and robbers.

Oh, my God.

So that's, I mean, He's a lawyer now.

He's a lawyer now. I think to fight those same injustices. I love you, Justin, and I apologize. I thought we were having fun.

I don't even know you, and I love you, Justin, and I sympathize, and I feel for you, and I apologize.

It's so funny. I had to leave my family, and I recreated one here, and I figured out a way to turn it into a quasi business. Yeah, I know. And then just, Oh, good. I can pick on these guys.

You're the Neil.

Not really. All right. Well, I think we learned a lot. I think we learned a lot here, which is, Gourley, you would fairly beat me arm wrestling. I still think if it was a real fight, I could distract you. I just don't think it's- I could say there's some memorabilia over there from the Nixon Museum, and then I would just take your head off. That's true.

I don't think it's worth it to arm wrestle unless you can hold hands. What's the point otherwise? Give a little, give a little. It's not weird. Look it up, people. That's how you grade school arm wrestle. It's so I don't know.

He had like, it's weird. It was really weird. It was tender. That thing you're talking about is in the middle.

Can I say something? No, that's what you use when you don't have the over-the-top joysticks.

You don't hold hands. They've never held hands. Sona, he wanted to hold my hand. Let it go.

You hold hands, you arm wrestle, you see each other later, you realize you're closer than you think, you find out what's in common, and then you- Then you take a little drive.

All right, I'm going to end it there. It will.

Conan O'Brien needs a friend. With Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Cessian and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, nick Gleow, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at EarWolf. Theme song by the White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brenda Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kohn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Konan? Call the Team Coco Hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It, too, could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Konan O'Brien Needs A Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

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