Was there a beef between Nickelodeon Cartoon Network?

Around that time, it was always beef. With the networks, it was like Disney and Nickelodeon was like the blessed of Cribs at that point.

We have an unbelievably special guest, someone that was probably in all of our living rooms. From all that, Keenan and Keel. We're on live TV. Kell Mitchell from Good Burger, too. We are talking game one of the 1992 NBA Finals. Everyone knows the shrug game, where he just couldn't be stopped.

That was like prime time in Chicago. When Jordan started to really show what he can really do. Everybody wanted to be Michael Jordan on a playground at that point.

You think Mike would have changed his game and dominated this area? Yeah, I'd do it.

Mike is amazing. You can't tell him he can't do something. I took a face to that. Because he going to do it.

Being in that Nickelodeon machine.

Back then, it wasn't a lot of union rules, so we used to work crazy hours.

It's like NFL coming by, All right, you got to test these little kids? What's their attention span? How long can they stay focused? So you put them through all this stuff, and only the strong survive.

I'm glad you're not making child labor laws, bro. Only the strong survive.

Games with Names is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to Games with Names. On today's episode, we are talking game one of the 1992 NBA Finals between the Trailblazers of Portland and the Bulls of Chicago, a. K. A. The Shrug Game. We get to speak and talk this game with Kal Mitchell from Good Burger, too. Loved it. Loved getting to talk with him about all that Nikola Nickelodian, early Nickelodian. That was early Nickelodian. Early, the O. G.

Days.

O. G. Little blood crypt gang, battles with Cartoon Network and Disney. Vicious. It was pretty vicious. I wonder how many shanks we had out there.

Man, I don't know. Made Shanks. I don't want to see Keenan and Keenan kill out there, man. I got faith in them. I got faith. They can take anybody.

We talk Michael Jordan. We talk the Bulls dynasty. We talk the Bulls Energy. He's from the south side of Chicago. This guy's got All the intel on how it was to be around that. That was pretty cool. That was a crazy time.

Great time to grow up as a sports fan.

We even talk about old Gronky Pooh and his cameo in Good Burger, too.

Showing off those acting Drain Chops.

I think Gronky needs more.

What can he do?

What can he do? Then we wrap it up with the show by talking about our favorite burgers.

Some good ones.

There's some good... I mean, he's Ed from Good Burger. Welcome to Good Burger. It's only right. Home of the Good Can I take your order? Let's get into it. Make sure you check out Games with Names on YouTube, Instagram, X, Snapchat, and TikTok @gameswithname. Subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. We want to hear from you. Call in at 424-291-2290. Leave a message of some game wrecks, your own stories from iconic games, or maybe some advice. Whatever. Just call in. Let's go. June 3, 1992, Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois.

As the second quarter winds down, Clyde Drexler heaves an airball from distance.

Paxton kicks it to Jordan on the perimeter. He pulls up from three.

This is The Shred Game. Yeah, cool. Shrug on him.

Welcome to Games with names. We have an unbelievably special guest today in studio, someone that was probably in all of our living rooms if you were born between 84 and 92. Okay. If you were in there, he was in your living room, you were watching him at night. Star of Good Burger 2. Welcome to Good Burger, home of the Good Burger.

Can I take your order? That was good.

I got to try. Host of Burger tales on YouTube, which we'll get into because everyone knows I'm a burger connoisseur, and I feel like I got someone in the building that I got to address. He's a Chicago native that grew up in the heyday of MJ, Michael Jordan, the GOAT. Welcome to Games of Names, Cal. Thanks for coming in this video.

Hey, thank you, man. Thanks for having me. I like that intro, man. That was dope.

It's true. From all that to Keenan and Cal and being in that Nickelodian machine.

Ecosystem universe, all that.

Yeah, it is a universe. It's an Avengers. It really is. Yeah.

Welcome.

Thank you, man.

So you grew up a huge Shytown fan?

Of course, man. I still am. You know what I mean? You got to imagine when Jordan started to really show what he can really do. You know what I'm saying? It started to come out. It was like, that was prime time in Chicago, watching the games, excited. Everybody wanted to be Michael Jordan on a playground at that point. I mean, then everybody else that was on the team, too. You know what I mean? I had a little shot Cartwright. You know what I mean? It had a two things. Nobody really knew what was going to happen. You know what I mean? But yeah, man, everybody. I mean, you left everybody, B. J. Armstrong, everybody. And it was just like pipping the shoes, the style. We're talking about '92. Hip hop was crazy.

It was starting to pop.

Man, hip hop was even crazier, man, and living Color. I just remember all the mics killing it at that time. Michael Jordan, Mike Tyson, knocking people out every weekend, and then you're watching the Bulls during the week. It was crazy. It was crazy. It was crazy.

We're looking at the 1992 NBA Finals between the Bulls and the Blazers, the shrug game. Why did you pick this game?

The reason why I picked this one is because this is the perfect example, and this is something I live by. You think you know me, but watch this.

Hell, yeah. Let's go.

You think you know me.

Watch this.

But watch this.

Watch this. You love that. Yo, it's like, you know what I mean? I can switch. It's a whole bunch of different things that can happen. You think you know me? Because the Blazers, they were literally like, Okay, he's going to go under the paint. We know what he's going to do. You know what I mean? He doesn't throw threes. He doesn't have that.

You know what I mean? All of me. Dreygster was very... It was compared to him a bunch. Same stature. He was supposed to be the guy, had a better three-point average that year. He was in that MVP talk. So there was a lot of stuff. And then I think the The day before, didn't he get... Jordan got the MVP the day before the final started and had a sit down. And he had that famous quote where, yeah, Clyde's a better three-point shooter than I choose to be. This is the night before this game.

That's cold. That's cold.

So he was already given a little tidbit to everybody. This is what I've been doing. I've been practicing. And he had that weaponry right there ready and nobody knew. And it was like when you saw them because they thought they had that defense But then it was like they saw a ghost. When he started shooting, it was like, Oh, no.

He missed the first two, though. We'll get into the game.

I feel like that's the plan.

We'll get into the game. But this is a historic game. Everyone knows The Shrug Game. Yes. Where he just couldn't be stopped. There's so many conspirations about why the shrug was the shrug, the Magic Johnson theory, the Clyde Drexter theory. We'll get into that. What's life looking like for you right now? I know we're We're doing Good Burger, the sequel.

Yeah, man. Good Burger part 2. Part 2. Out right now. Paramount Plus. Let's go. Definitely a blessing, man. It's been great, man. And that was our thing. We knew we were going to do part 2. We want to make sure that it's a heat and everybody enjoys it, and it stands on its own. You could watch part 2 and hadn't seen part 1. You know what I mean? And that's what we really wanted.

I'm looking forward to... I'm going to watch you with my little girl. I got a seven-year-old. Yeah. I think she'll dig it just because you can see what these kids like. I'm just watching that YouTube shit all day. But you guys are so good with the character. Kids love your Goofy as fuck on there. You're the Good Burger guy. I want to see what she thinks because it'll be like, that was our stuff growing up, and it'll be fun to see what she's thinking.

That's what it is. We want the whole entire family on the couch watching this movie. You know what I mean? Because the fans that saw it in the '90s, they could show it to their kids like you're seeing now and enjoy it. It was crazy because we had five-year-olds having Good Burger birthday parties. You know what I mean? Before Good Burger 2 came out, and it was like, Yo, you weren't even born when the first one came out. We were like, Yo, the whole family is going to come out to see this thing, and that's exactly what happened. That's awesome, man. It's a blessing.

What's up with this YouTube burger tales?

What was this? This is what I'm saying. What I said earlier is like, you think you know me. It's like having these different skills and different things. An actor told me one time, I think it was William Macy? I can't remember. When I did Mission Rehab, someone told me, be a sponge. You know what I mean? On set, be a sponge and everything. So I always encourage my kids and encourage everybody to continue to learn. Always learn a new skill. Never feel like you just know everything. You know what I mean? Learn new skills, learn new things. And so I'm always doing that and figuring out different ways to give back and things that I can do within the community. And so with burgers, every burger place I go to, I get free burgers. You know what I mean? So it's like they call me. You know what I mean? I'm like the real burger king. I knew during the pandemic, a lot of mom and pop burger spots were hit pretty hard. You know what I'm saying? National Food Service Day was coming around this past year, and I was like, okay, it's been a lot of buzz around good burger and things like I was like, Yo, let me go to these mom and pop spots in Los Angeles.

And the person up at the register, like Ed is at the register, tipped them really big. And then hear the story of how they opened up this place and then also give them a burger review. Give them some buzz. They see Ed in there, give them some buzz. And it's been beautiful, man. I've been over 20 spots now. You know what I mean? Doing it. And it's just been great, man. People naming burgers after me now. It's been fun. And I've been finding some really dope burger places, too.

What's your favorite one in LA?

Shout out to all of them because I'm out here, so I don't want anybody seeing me in the street. Hey, yo, girl, you shit. But I'll name one of my favorites. Billionaire Burger Boys.

Billionaire Burger Boys.

Billionaire Burger Boys. Where? It's in downtown. You know what I mean? In Chinatown, right over there. It is like, I mean, crazy. I mean, it's like they got this lobster tail burger where the tail is really hanging out of the burger right there, but it's so good. And they season it definitely right. A lot of exotic burgers that are in there, too. Things that they do.

The Austrian shit. I like the beef. I like the beef.

It's really good. Yeah. Shout out to Arby's right now, man. We got the good burger burger.

Little fun fact. That was my dad's first date with my mom. Arby's? Wow. Palo Alto. That's deep. Frank got game. You better have gave you a take in the Arbies.

All right.

Are you on this Smash Burger craze?

Yeah, of course, man. Of course. Smash Burger is amazing. The way that it's cooked, the way it's made, the flavor. It's so juicy, man. The way they keep the flavor in there. It's tricks to keeping the flavor in the burgers. When they do it right, it's amazing. Want to Smash, that's my other favorite one. That's in Van I's. Yeah. Want to Smash burger.

Crazy. Yeah, I got to check it out.

Oh, yeah. Want to Smash Burger? Oh, yeah. They'll love you to come in there, too.

I've been to a couple of these Smash burger joints. There's Burgers Never Say Die over in Silver Lake, which has a ketchup mustard onion burger, which is a take on a... It's a Smash one with its take on a McDonald's burger. Then also I like Burger She wrote. Burger She wrote? That's over in Melrose, over in West Hollywood. There's a For the Wind. That's really good. That's over in this little... Where is that, Jackie?

That's over... That's right here in Paramount there.

That's Franklin, high above. That's over by the freeway.

We like heavy-handed. It's not bad, too. Heavy-handed?

A little saucy.

A little saucy.

A little saucy. A little saucy. A little saucy.

Is it good sauce?

It's good sauce, though. It's good sauce.

It's good sauce. Let's jump into it, man. How was it being... Because we have a segment where we go back in to the date of when this game took place, which on this one was June 3, 1992, and we had Patriots Games as number one movie. That's with the Harrison Ford. I feel like there was a lot of those type of Harrison Ford movies. What was the other one, Jackie?

It was always he was on an airplane and he was looking for his wife.

The Fugitive.

I liked him. The Fugitive.

I liked him. Chris Cross was the number one song by Junk. Chris Cross will make you jump. He used to wear everything backwards. Hell, yeah.

I love Chris Cross.

I remember watching him on a Color. Wasn't that their breakout?

Man, they were already killing it. Were they killing it? Way before that. Yeah, way before that. For me, being there around that age at the same time, because in '92, I was in eighth grade. You got to imagine. I wore my clothes backwards. I had all the fresh haircuts. My sister, she does hair. You know what I mean? Around that time, she was just starting out. She would practice on me. I had all the dope fades with the- The parts? Yeah, all the art. I have the MCAP Hammer, parts in my head and all of that. I definitely have my clothes backwards. I used to dance, too. I also rapped as well. Yeah, man, but 92, definitely, man. I was into everything hip hop, breakdancing, graffiti, all of it.

Was this the last time you could really be a kid? Because when did you start doing When did you start doing all that?

Now, all that was, I feel like that was 94.

So that's two years. 94. You're really a kid here.

Yeah, I'm a kid here.

Then you hit into high school, and all of a sudden, This is the last time you probably were a kid.

Well, 92 was big because this was the start of this, the origin story. You know what I mean? This is when people started to figure out like, oh, Kael wants to do this. This is what he's going to be into. Because it was a thing where I kept getting in trouble in school because I was a bit of a class clown. I always wanted to put on a show.

Probably hella funny.

Oh, dude. It's people that hit me up now on social media, Instagram. Like, yo, Kael, you remember when you did that thing in the classroom? And I'm like, no, I don't do it. But yeah, man, that was the thing. And my parents tried everything around this time to put me in, to keep me with something positive. You know what I mean? Because I have friends that want to up and up and ask some friends that was wowing out. South Side of the shot. You know what I mean? But then Shout out to my parents for just keeping it real positive. And they found acting was the thing, man. They put me in theater, and it was this community theater called ETA Creative Arts Foundation, and they had a summer course. And I went and did the summer course there, and I was like, Yo, I found my people. This is where I need to be. All the stuff I'm getting in trouble in class with this is I could do it here. And it became a job. You know what I mean? So I did the showcase there, started working there, doing theater. From there, I started doing more theater with even adults.

I started to turn into a job. But this was never a thing of, Oh, I'm going to get on TV. This was more of a positive outlet for something to do so I wouldn't get in trouble. You know what I mean? No. Yeah, man. It just birthed all of these things. I remember one thing about 92 that I remember big was that I had a talent show at my school, and it was at Rosen Christian School, right? Rosen. I remember I played Marlin King And I played MCAP Hammer within this. That's range, folks. It was wild. So basically, it was a play called Amazing Grace, but it was like a talent show plus a play that the teacher had put together. And I remember I had my Martin Luther King thing, but then it revved up. It was all like Black history, and it revved up. And then it was like, okay, now you get to perform. And so I was like, oh, I'm going to be MCAP Hammer. And so a lot of the guys was like, oh, man, they were dancing in other parts. But MCAP Hammer It was a bunch of people.

So it was like, yo, what am I going to do? He got 15 people dancing behind him. I got to get some people in here. And I remember it was like a couple of the girls from different classes, they didn't have nothing to do. And I just choreographed all of them. And so I had literally 15 behind me just dancing because I love to dance. Break it down. Oh, yeah, I broke it down. We did Too Legit to Quit. It was crazy. Too Legit to Quit, Chris Cross, man, hieroglyphics, honest. I mean, it was so much dopeness. That was '92 in hip hop, that was just crazy. Kidn' Play.

Kim Play, house party.

Rock' Kim, you know what I mean? Juice. It's so much, dude.

'92. Is this the year you found? You said, was it high school in two years?

It was high school in two years. Okay.

So then when I got to- So you're in eighth grade, you're still just kicking it.

I'm kicking it in '92.

You're playing sports?

You know what? I was playing sports. I did football a little bit, and then I did, of course, basketball because Everybody because the Bulls were killing it. So everybody wanted to play basketball. But I was into... I did do sports, but I was into like, kung fu and tango and do. So I started doing kung fu, tango and do, and then I became a theater kid. And that's literally how it went. You know what I mean? So it was like, okay, remember when I said they tried everything, we tried the sports, but what really hit was the drama and the kung fu. Because I love Bruce, man.

Bruce Lee was insane.

Yeah, and Bruce Lee Roy from Last Dragon. Come on, shout out to Toma.

Look it up. I used to low-key love the theater stuff. When I was in sixth, seventh, and eighth grade, they'd always have You had to do the plays. We did the plays, and I would always take it so serious. I remember getting high of having someone laugh. I would improv my shit. That's what it is, bro.

Yes.

My teacher would get so mad, but it'd make the people laugh and stuff. Yeah. Shout out to my teacher. I forgot her name.

Shout out. Ms. Forgot her name. She was cool.

She gave it her all. We were probably a little knuckleheads trying to get that.

Thanks, man. Thanks.

Also around this time, Johnny Carson's final appearance. As host of The Tonight Show, May 22nd. That was my birthday. Johnny Carson.

Man, a G.

I see. I don't really remember him like that. I remember Jay Leno.

Yeah.

That was more my time. What about you, Jack?

I was more of a Letterman guy.

Letterman, Jay Leno, same.

They were in the same-Yeah, the Late Night Wars. Yeah, Late Night Wars. Johnny wrapped it up with Bet Midler and Robin Williams.Final two guests. Robin Williams. Solid way to go out.

Robin Williams, man.

Rip. Rip.

I said he was One of my favorite, you know what I mean, as far as comedians. Dude. You got to look at it, man. I mean, around this time, it was what? In Living Color, all of them, man, just inspired me. Of course, Eddie Murphy.Eddie Murphy. Eddie Murphy inspired me. Yeah, man. Robin Williams, all of them, and John Ritter. That was another one that just like, man. It inspired me a lot, man.

Robin Williams, man. I saw something on social recently where he was doing a commercial and he was young in his thing. He was getting into these crazy alter egos, and it took him... His line was literally one sentence, and it took him 45 minutes to get the one sentence because he kept on going into these crazy different characters and fucking with the people. And he was just in his element. Yeah, man. And it was just so funny because he'd have conversations with himself and with different characters. So talented.

Making it... I mean, he's just a beast, man. Weapon of just amazing comedy. You know what I mean?

Miss Doubtfire, Jack.

Come on, man. All time, man.

Drama in comedy.

It's sad. It's sad. Rip to a legend, for real. Also, Alien came out. Are you Alien guy? You watch these?

I loved Aliens, man. I love Aliens so much. I had on a VHS with Ghostbusters, Last Dragon, and Purple Rain. They were all on the VHS.

Don't record over that VHS.

Do you remember the Ninja turtle VHS? And then they'd have the Burger King ad before.

Right before they had to get you. Yeah.

With the kid, the cartoon kid who'd come in.

Eat this burger while watching the movie. Yeah, It was a great time, especially for movies, too. Music, movies.

Lethal Weapon 3. Riggs.

Yeah, man.

That was me and Slater. Matthew Slater. Love Lethal Weapon, man. Batman Returns. Is that the one with the Penguin? That's a Penguin one.

That was DeVito, I believe.

That's number two. Devito?

Yeah, I think so.

I loved those Batman's. Yeah, man. They were like, looking back, they're bad after the first one.

Yeah, that was Keaton. That was Michael Keaton. That was Keaton.

The first one was the best one of me. Jack Nicklaus. That time.

Prince Soundtrack.

Prince. Come on. I'm a big Prince fan, man. That was crazy.

That was such a crazy... That was a great movie. Sister Act. I love Whoopie. Shout out to Whoopie. Whoopie, this was her time. Ghost was a little before this. Was Ghost in '90, '89? I love that movie.

Yeah, Color Purple right around this, too. Yes, man, Whoopie. Whoopie's amazing, too. Meeting her, too. That's the thing, too.

You got a Whoopie story?

That's the thing. 92. Oh, yeah. What's a Whoopie story? Okay, because she was just amazing. Basically, I think it was the first time we met Whoopie was Big Help. Remember the Big Helpathon and all this stuff because we had Big Helpathon. We had the Kids Choice Awards and all these things that were popping off in the early 90s.

For you young people, there wasn't this thing called... What's the little app everyone... Were you...

Gofundme?

There was no GoFundMe. You used to call into a landline, and all these celebrities would just be on there, and they'd say, Hey, how much money do you want to get? And that's what it was. And there'd be a performance, a stand-up deck. So all you young kids, there was no Venmos, there was none of that.

None of that.

There was call me, call-ins, call lines for good stuff.So.

Awesome.sorry for cutting you off. No worries, man. No worries. It was just so awesome to meet all these people, and that's what I was saying. When we met Whoopie, he was like, Yo, I just I just watched Sister Act. I just watched. Then around that time, I think it was 94, so it was Sister Act 2 that came out. You know what I mean? That's the one I love, Sister Act 2. Lauryn Hill, Fugees. I was a big B-boy, so I was breakdancing and all that stuff. To meet Lauryn Hill and all these acts. Because that was the thing, with all that, we had every musical act. Then also in our audience alone, we had a lot of comedians that we looked up to that would come and bring their kids and stuff like that. Our audiences would be crazy, too.

Who's your favorite person you got to meet in that time span?

Man, everybody, man. You're talking about LL, Alia, TLC, did the theme song. You know what I mean? Tlc?

Left Out was her?

Was Left Out? Yeah, I thought was there, man. This is the TLC where they were at the beginning of it all. It's still to be cool with everyone at this point. Like Usher, when he was first getting started, I remember Usher had on some Timberlands in New Jersey, and we had that garage stage, and we had a fire escape set thing that we made. He just was like, no other entertainer had done this that would get started on the show. But he's like, I want to start at the fire escape. He slid down the fire escape, did a spin and a split, and then started singing, and I was like, Oh, yeah, he's about to kill it. He's going to kill it. Look at us now. You know Super Bowl, everything. That's just amazing, man. People sleep on his dancing. Oh, that's just amazing.

Because this new Chris Brown became the usher of the next. Man. Who could sing and dance. Usher used to... Those music videos were crazy.

He still got it.

He still got it. He used to be in rain. You got it bad. Doing It's like, this one spins, and it looked for 25 minutes. I'm sitting here like, That's not physically possible. What surface is he on? What surface is he on?

Skills. That's what we're talking about, them skills.

Now, cartoon networking airs this year now. Was there any beef? Was there a beef between Nickelodeon Cartoon Network?

Around that time, it was always beef. You know what I mean? As far as with the networks, it was like Disney and Nickelodeon, it was like, Disney and Nickelodeon, it was like, Cribs at that point. You know what I mean? It was team Rina Stimmy.

Rina Stimmy. What's Cartoon Network?

I don't know. I feel like they were neutral because they were the weird kids that came out of nowhere. You know what I mean? With these wild cartoons, man. But me being a cartoon I loved everything. You know what I mean? I watched all the Cartoon Network stuff. Of course, the Nickelodeon stuff.

Favorite Nickelodeon. What was your favorite Nickelodeon?

At that time, if you're talking about that time, definitely Rina Stimmy. You know what I mean? I think it's a little too wild now. Way too wild.

I was going to wear a shirt on this for that. I loved Running Stimpy. I watch it. I'm like, there's no way I can let my kid watch this shit.

Oh, man, Running Stimpy was amazing, man. It was hilarious.

I love Doug.

Doug was dope.

I love Doug. Shout out Patty Manish. And then I love Hey Arnold. That was my era. Man. Hey Arnold was fired. I wanted to live in New York after that. Then I remember going to New York for the first time. I was looking for an alleyway to play stickball because of Hey Arnold. I was like, Where is it? Football Head?

Do you all remember the cartoons, though, around this time? Because I tell people that rappers back then had cartoons. Who? Okay, so MCAP Hammer had a cartoon?

I do remember that.

You know what I mean? Look it up. He had a cartoon. His shoes would come alive. He'd jump inside his shoes, and then he would switch into Hammer Man. I do remember that. And save everybody. And then Kid & Play had a cartoon because they had a success of House Party and all that stuff like that. And I don't know, that was even before house party when they had the cartoon. I think they were before that. They had the cartoon, man. So it was crazy.

We got to bring that back today. We need A Young Thug cartoon. We need Thug, something. You know?

I don't know who would be that. You know what I mean? You turned to a boat or something.

Bro, that would rock. Bring that back. Networks execs, I'm looking at you.

Let's go.

And then last Lastly, The Chronic came out this year. Dr. Dre, that's one of my favorites. West Coast Kids. What an album.

This year rocks.

This year, 92.

Dude, I love The Chronic album. My memory of that is having the tape, The Chronic tape, him on it, and then playing Sonic the Hedgehog, and listening to The Chronic album for the first time while playing Sonic. You know what I mean?

Bro, can't get any better than that.

Can't get any better than that, man. I just remember being in the basement playing Sonic, Blaster You were a saga kid over a Nintendo, Super Nintendo?

Big saga, man.

I was. I had a saga, too.

I had a saga, too, but there were Super Nintendo kids. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Which I did envy. I wanted the Mario. Oh, yeah. I never got Because there was only so much you could do with Sonic and tales.

Yeah, man.

When the Super Mario, that was just a different world. Different world, man.

I loved it, though. I loved Sega, though.

Then they started getting the Sega CD. Remember that whole thing? I remember that whole thing. I remember that all went down. My friend had a Sega CD, and then Dreamcast came out, Dreamcast was balling. Neo geo.

It was a bunch of crazy ones. Yeah, right? Yeah. Oh, man.

Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

The big take from Bloomberg News brings you what's shaping the world's economies with the smartest and best-informed business reporters around the world. Western nations like the US and Europe.

Mexico will likely have its first female President.

Then you have China.

And help you understand what's happening, what it means, and why it matters.

He got his yo-yos to Europe in time.

But the longer this drives on, the more worry he's getting.

They knew that they needed to do this as fast as they possibly could to get a drug on the market as fast as they could. I'm David Garra.

I'm Sarah Holder. I'm Salaya Mohsen. We cover the stories behind what's moving money in markets.

Basically, everyone was expecting, if not a calamity, certainly a recession.

But the problem is that that paperwork, as our reporting showed, is fake.

As someone who's covering the market, I'm often very worried about an imminent collapse. I'm thinking about it quite often. Listen to the big take on the iHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Salaya Mohsen, and I've covered economic policy for years and reported on how it impacts people across the United States. In 2016, I saw how voters were leaning towards Trump and how so many Americans felt misunderstood by Washington. So I started the Big Take DC. We dig into how money, politics, and power shape government and the consequences for voters.

It's an election year, so there's a lot of focus on the voters that TikTok is reaching.

The initial reaction is like, Oh, things are looking so resilient.

I don't want to be too pessimistic, but I just don't see the political will down in Washington right now to change their tune. I think the American electorate has signaling that it expects a rematch of the 2020 election. These are unprecedented times.

With new episodes every Thursday, you can listen to the Big Take DC on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In high school, you pick up your interest in theater.

Yeah, well, no, this was '92.

No, I'm saying- Theater. In general. Okay, yeah. Yeah. When was the time you had the I made it moment?

You know what? Well, I'll say the... Because I don't like to say I made it. I like to say levels. It's like because you go different levels of life. This was part of one of the levels of the journey. I remember when, I want to say my sophomore year high school, it was all that came along because at this point, I'm doing theater in downtown Chicago. I'm doing victory garden theater, Goodman Theater. I modeled for Captain Crunch. I was on the back of the Crunchberry box. Oh, thank you. So I had like a high top- Crunchberry? Yeah, I had a high top fade. It's also- Sister? It's in the Wayne's World movie. Sister did it? She might have did that. But it's in the Wayne's World movie, too. It's a cereal box there, and then you see it. I think it was the joke when they were doing a joke on the doors or something like that. It's a part in there. But yeah, you'll see the Crunchberry. But yeah, man, that was happening. And then I remember I got an agent, so I'm going on mad, mad auditions and stuff like that. And usually around that time, you'll get infomercials and commercials and Crunchbearing box stuff, modern stuff.

But then all that came along, which was like a nationwide search because now you could do your Zoom auditions, you could do whatever. You know what I mean? And it makes it easier for cast directors. But back then, they had to scout. They had to fly to them cities to find those kids. And they found me in Chicago, Man, and I remember auditioning. I had finals on the brain because I had finals that week. You know what I mean? But I went in there and I went in the room. And what was dope about going in the room is that they said, do some impersonations. Most kids would do impersonations of people they see on TV, right? No, man. I did people I've seen on the L, you know what I mean? My uncles, my aunties, my coach, he was very, very mean. And all these people, voices that I did in the room turned into the characters that everybody knows today. Know Coach Creighton. You know what I mean? That was my coach. He was mean. It would be valentized. Kids come in like, Oh, it's love. He's like, Don't nobody care about no love.

Shut up. That type of thing. And then Ed was in there because I love Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. I saw that. I love all those different movies, Save by the Bell, all that stuff.

So he's Bill and Ted meets South Side of Chicago?

Exactly. I would do that. Me and my cousins would just talk like that.

Who are you, Bill or Ted guy?

Yeah, I did. What, dude? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Common. You heard the new Common album? Yeah. Twister, dude. Yeah. Totally tubular, bro.

Yeah.

We did all that stuff, man, and did that in the room, and they loved it. That was Ed, the voice of Ed. But yeah, man, to have that audition. I remember when I auditioned, it was like, I want to say three weeks from by. So it's like, if you audition for something for three weeks from by, you probably didn't get it. But I remember I got a call late that night, the old school phone still connected to the wall.

Landline. Yeah.

My mom's like, Hello? And it was like, What? Thank you, Jesus. What's going on? And we went to LA, and it was the Avengers, bro. It was like going up against every funny kid from every city. You know what I mean? And I remember it was lines. We were out here in LA battling it out, and I was able to battle it out and get through. You know what I mean? As far as with the sketches, the comedy. And then from there, we started the show in Florida, Orlando, Florida.

Wow. They put you guys through a tat. It's like some combine stuff. It's like NFL combine. All right, name, plate. Give me a joke. Where are you from?

It makes you a beast, though. Inspo. It makes you a beast, man. Back then, it wasn't a lot of union rules, so we used to work crazy hours. It made us comedic beast.

Yeah, but if you think about it as a network, you Probably you got to test these little kids because they're little... You guys are kids. What's their attention span? How long can they stay focused? So you put them through all this stuff, and only the strong survive. Only the strong survive.

That's real.

That is so real. You know what I mean? Because that's essentially what they try to do in the NFL. That's why they have the combine, the interviews, because they're going to invest a lot of time, money in this thing or this person, this player. They want to see on its good day, or at least try to get a glimpse of good days, bad days, competitive stamina. Does he like to focus? Does he not like to focus? What's he like off? All that. So I'm sure they're doing that with the kids.

Oh, yeah. I'm glad you're not making child labor laws, bro. Only the strong survive. Only the strong.

That's how it was, though. Hey. Real talk. Yeah, man.

So that was your level.

Yeah.

So that was when you got to remember the oil levels in Sonic? Yeah. That was all night affair to get there. Once you got there, you were hoping those things- Spikes, them spikes coming in. Yeah, spikes to get you to get the ring.

Yeah, man. You get to that level, and then all of a sudden, First day on set, Nickelodeon.

Boy. Nerves.

Okay, so first day. So we get there. Now, here's the thing, because it was a special. So it was only supposed to be a special because Nickelodeon was scared. They They've never tried anything like this. This was a very kid sketch comedy show. They've never done that. They had like Roundhouse for the people that remember Roundhouse and a couple of other shows on Nickelodeon, but nothing like with this edge to it. You know what I mean? And so they tried it out just to see what would happen, and the Ratings went through the roof. So we thought we were just shooting this as a special, and we were going back home. That's literally what happened. We shot one episode, went back home. You know what I mean? And waited for it to air. And when it air, I mean, everybody went crazy. Ratings through the roof, everyone went nuts. And then we went back. And I remember Josh Server, he's from Chicago, one of the cast members on the show. And we had a feeling. We were just like, Yo, man, we're going to be right back in the same spot. It's going to happen.

You know what I mean? And we were. It came back and we were right back there shooting the first season. And I mean, to be in Orlando around that time, you're talking about Back to the Future 2 was popping. So they had the Back to the Future ride. Shaq was killing it with the magic. Orlando was just that. Orlando was Magic, Universe Studios, Disney, Keenan & Keel, all that. Well, all that at that point. All that at that point. We were kicking it all through like Rando, and just having a blast with Shaq's family. Shaq's family used to come down and be on set and stuff like that, be in sketches, and he would come down and hang out with us. Michael Jamal Warner was directing, Kim Field's directing, and then all these amazing musical acts that I mentioned earlier. And then us in between breaks would go and go get on the Back to the Future ride and do sketches and all that stuff like that. And then also doing work, school work, too, because I stayed in school, enrolled in my school in Chicago, too, as well. So we had to take our test.

Homework. Oh, yeah, homework.

How did it stay, bud?

How did it do?

What's the craziest... I mean, you guys are kids, okay? Now, I know you're on a kid network. Yeah. There had to be some crazy stuff behind stage, backstage, cameras not rolling. What's the craziest thing you saw back there?

Oh, man. Well, wow.

That we can... As far as you want to go.

We can't go that far. But yeah, let's just say it was some crazy things. It was some crazy things you would see. I would tell people, I was in high school at that time, so this was the time to get a job anyway. So a lot of times when people were like-High school with money and Fame. Yeah. When they go like- It's not just high school, folks. Yeah, man. When people go like, kid actors, I don't feel like I would... Because I didn't get started when I was five or eight on TV. That's a whole different outlook on it. But around this time, it was more of like, we were just experiencing it together, bro. Seeing it all come together because no one knew that this vehicle of all that was going to take off like I did. It just blew everybody's mind at that point. All of us, too. We were just like, Man, it's still going. It's crazy. Yeah, Yeah.

Let's jump back. We got a segment where we go into the sports world. It's piggyback of what was going on in '92. Washington beat Buffalo in Super Bowl 26. Joe Gibbs, those teams just couldn't wait. Remember those It seems. Are you a football fan? You're a bears fan?

I'm a bears fan. I'm a bears fan. Always will be.

85 bears. 85 bears.

85 bears, man. Refrigerator Perry. Shout out to Spice Adams. You know Spice? No.

Yeah, he's 40, Joe. On social. I don't know him, but I follow him.

Yeah, that's my boy, man. Spice. He's a bear fan all the way down. Bear down.

He be given funny ass player perspective on shit with coaches and stuff, like his little sketches.

Yeah, man. He knows the game.

He knows. He played a long time, but there was always a funny guy in the locker room like that. Oh, yeah. That would go above and beyond on some entertainment shit, like with the rookie skits. You could tell that dude was funny in the rookie skit.

Oh, heck, yeah. Oh, man.

Larry Bird, retired. Larry legend. Damn. Larry. August 18th. Great white hype. Great player.

Gone and Larry in the same year is tough.

Magic and Larry. That's the passing of the torch.

Yeah. Why did you all pick that picture? He looked so... I'm done with all of this.

He was beat up.

He was beat up.

Larry, didn't he have a bad back?

Terrible back. These were the years where Larry was hiking his shorts up past the belly button. The back was given out. It was time.

That looks like a bad back picture. He's like,.

These dudes are 6'9, and they're wearing those little ass. They were wearing Chuck Taylor's back then. I wore a pair of Chuck Taylor's two days ago. My feet still hurt.

Dude.

That was what they were hooping in. Yeah. I can't even imagine. Yeah, their backs are fucked up.

They also would give you 40 in those, though.

Man. Man. Not The Chicago Blackhawks swept the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Oh, they were swept. The penguins swept the Blackhawks.

Oh, penguins. Yeah. Do you remember this?

The Chicago Blackhawks.

Was there some hype going around Chicago then?

Pinguins in Stanley Cup final. I don't remember that, but I'm sure it was crazy. You know what I loved about the Blackhawks? Because I wasn't into hockey at that point.They had cool uniforms.Now.

I'm into hockey.They had good merch.

But I love the merch. Man, I rocked the Chicago Blackhawks jersey all the time. The Chicago Blackhawks jersey was Right after the Bulls. Definitely got to put that after the Bulls. Baseball. Oh, you got to put Baseball.

White Sox or Cubs?

White Sox. Yeah, South Side. White Sox. It was South... He knows. White Sox, South Side of Chicago sports at that time?Oh, yeah.For you guys? Yeah. For a black hockey fan? Yeah. They were crazy. If there's the tier of sports in Chicago at All in Chicago comes together, baby.

After that many years. You go to the parade?

They got to come together. Back then, yeah. Back then, I went to a lot of them, man. Then shout out for the Chicago folks to know Bud Billington parade. Yeah. That was just a parade that we do. Out in Chicago representing everybody. But yeah, man, and I remember going to a Bulls game. It had to be '92 or early '90s. I was a kid and we went there. We were like a nosebleed section, like something crazy. I think I went with the Boy Scouts or something like that. But we were screaming out Mike because this was when the like Mike commercials were. Like Mike and all that. We were screaming out like, Mike-o, Mike-o, hoping he would turn around. And I kid you not, he turned around. Did he? He turned around. Hell, yeah, Mike. I don't know if he was... It looked like he was looking right at us. He did.

He was. But we lost it.

We believe him. We went crazy. We were like, Michael.

Oh, man. I remember going to Candlestick. I remember those moments. I was on a little football team, and I don't know, you got a carton of milk where you got a Coke. You could get a Candlestick 49er ticket for eight bucks. But Candlestick is where the Giants and the 49ers played. So they'd have to bring out these bleachers for when the 49ers came, and there was an area of the field where you couldn't see anything. If it was on the other side of the 50, you couldn't see anything. That's where these tickets were. Oh, snap. But with these tickets, you could see behind in the hallways of where the players went. And I remember I remember just putting my little fingers in there, and I saw Jerry Rice walk by, and I was just like, Man, there's Jerry. I think he gave me a... It just reminded that Mike moment that you were talking about. He gave me a It was like a piece. Yeah, man. I was so happy. I was glowing. I was glowing for two weeks. Big, man.

Remember in Hardball when the key combas go to Wrigley Field? When Keana Reeves takes me to Wrigley Field in Jefferson Albert Tibbs, he's like, he's like, Samy, Samy. And Samy turns around and waves back. Remember that? Samy's taking BP anyways. That was so awesome.

Such sweet moments, man. I did see a sad moment with an athlete, though. Oh, yeah. That's because you were saying stuff behind the scenes. Oh, yeah. I can't say the athlete's name. Yeah. But this was like... Because we got invited to all those... Remember the All-Star Weekend? Kids like events that they used to do with the concert stuff. Anyway, all the players are coming out, and I remember the kid, it was raining, and the kid had the Sharpie with the ball. And he's looking at the player and the basketball. The basketball. He's a Wilson basketball.

So it's a basketball?

It's a basketball.It's a basketball.It's.

A basketball.It's a basketball.It's a basketball player.It's.

A basketball player.We're going to get it out of here.

What are you hearing? So he's sitting there with a Sharpie, bro, and he's just like, Can't wait. And I'm looking now because I'm like, What's going to happen? The player comes out. We're on at this point, Keen'a Keel, all that stuff. And he walks out, and the player just bumps him. And The ball hits the kid's face. It's the saddest moment ever, dude. And it hits him in the face. He just watches him go get in the car and just drive off. I'm like, No. I was like, I don't want to do that to the fans. You can't do that, man. That kid, it was so sad.

I'm trying to think who that would be. Oh, my God.

So did you bump Chris Webber and say, Man, what's up with that? Was it Chris Webber? Was he Webber? No, Chris. I'm a big Chris fan, man. I'm just messing around.

Oh, man. But yeah, that was a wild one. I needed to see that, though, so I could be like, Okay, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that.

You never know, though. I try to... With kids and when you're signing things, it's always easy with the kids. But sometimes you have these autograph people that send these kids. These autograph scalpers.

Sneaky, sneaky.

They find out you're in an airport. It's 3:00 in the morning, you get in an airport. How come there's a six-year-old, seven-year-old kid in the airport 3:00 in the morning?

See?how?only the strong survive.

Only the strong survive.

Putting them kids to work.

He put those kids to work.

He said, That's a little Charlie that works with that crazy man.Oh, yeah.Yeah. Definitely.

Yeah, they call him Chuck.

He's really 35. He looks 8.

All right, let's jump into the game.

Oh, let's go. Should we get into these teams?

Yeah, let's set the stage for these Trailblazers. Let's kick it off with the Blazers. Give me some background, Jack. What's going on in this game?

This was a good Blazers team. This was a good Blazer era. '57 and 25 led by Clyde, as we were talking about earlier. He was having a MVP caliber season. This was their second trip to the finals in three years. They went in 1990, lost to Isiah Thomas in those Pistons. They kept the same core for those years. This was also the last trip to the finals for the Blazers, which is a bummer. Coached by Rick Adleman.

Big basketball area. Big. They love it out there. Every time I play with guys from Oregon that are from Oregon, they love basketball. They love their Blazers, man. It's a big community out there.

Big time. Bill Walton, baby.

Yeah, Bill Walton.

Classic Blazer. I'll crowbar him in anytime I get the chance. Danny Ainge also on this team. Danny Ainge. An old Danny. Clyde, Big Clifford, Robinson, led by Rick Adleman, as we noted earlier. This was their 10th straight trip to the playoff, so this was a solid era for the Blazers.

They were killing it around that time.

What comes to mind when you think of this era of Blazers?

Man, first of all, because I'm in the fashion, the starter jacket was insane.

Oh, man. That's cool color. Great logo. You got silver and red and black. That's honestly why the Blackhawks were cool gear, because anytime you have black, red, and they got that little yellow and shit in there, those are fire colors.

I remember in the household, it was the client. I mean, this was like the battle of this century. These are the two superstars. You talk about Michael Jordan and It was always crazy. And this team was really good. You know what I mean? They were good.

All-time starter's jacket, though. What's your all-time fire straight droopy?

Fire straight droopy one. Love the Bulls, of course. But then also the one that I remember is the Raiders. Remember when they used to have the Starters trench coat?

Oh, yeah.

That's my joint. For the real heads. Yeah, DJ Quick used to rock that all the time. I remember I got that one. I was like, Yeah.

Hornet Twin was fire, too.

I had my fire. My fire, the starter's jacket was a 94.

I got a San Jose Sharks. That teal, black and white.

That was a hard one.

Because it wasn't like a It wasn't Miami. It was a blue. But Miami's all... This was black and white with a little teal. Shit was fired. It was eight sizes too big. I think I got it at a garage sale. But I wore that thing for nine years.Let's go.Let's go. Let's go.

Should we get into these Bulls?

Let's go.

Heck, yeah. This was the middle year of the three-peat. 91-92, coming off their first title in franchise history. Mj winning his second straight MVP this season. Straight. This is Jordan. This is Pippin. This is Horace Grant. We're led by Phil Jackson. 67 wins, 15 losses. I mean, it was a...

At the time, that was a record, right? At the time, that was a record.

Now, the Warriors had their 70 something. Also had guys like... This was like John Paxton, the Stacey King, the Cartwright. Kael was out there putting up when everyone else was yelling Jordan, Kael was yelling, Cartwright, shooting. B. J. Armstrong.

This was a little something in there, but it goes in. Yeah.

It goes in.

This was, of course, Jerry Kraus. He was the GM as Michael always had as a foil in the last dance. Michael was hatein' Jerry Kraus.

We're pro-MJ-side.Pro-MJ. Just podcast, just to let everyone know.Pro-MJ.Pro-MJ.Average 30 games a year.I don't want that guy to ever see me and hear that I said anything, and then he'll try to out-compet me in something.

Always looking for the edge. Always needed that chip on his shoulder, whether he's got a manufacturer or not. That's why he's the goat, though.

I told this story about meeting MJ. Have I tell it on here?

I think you have, but tell it again.

Yeah, I met MJ right before the Super Bowl. We were playing the Seahawks It was, You take your family out, and I took my family out to a restaurant. Mj was there with Jeter. Jeter was like, Most loving dude. Nice. I went up to Jeter. I went and introduced myself. I'm playing in the game. I went Hey, Mr. Jeter, how are you doing? Nice to meet you. Julian Edmond playing. He's like, Oh, man. Yeah, cool. Yeah. And MJ was like, a little standoffish, looking at me like, Who's this little young? Who's this little dude? And so finally, at the end of everything, I dapped him up. I go, Mr. Jordan, nice to meet you or something. And he goes, Got a lot riding on you boys. Don't fuck it up. That's all he said to me. That's when I knew. Yeah, he's a dog. He's a dog. He basically said, Don't fuck it up. I got a lot of money on you guys. That's the only thing he said to me. Derek Jeter, We had a 10-minute conversation. We're talking this.

Keep you heading the game.

Mj.

I love him, man. Shout out to MJ, man.

Did you ever get to meet him?

Yeah, I did. And what's cool is that I met his kids and his wife first, which that was cool because it was one of the all-star weekends.

Isn't one of his kids dating Scottie Pipp and his ex-wife?

I believe so. I think they're engaged.

Oh, I wonder how that holiday party goes.

Bro. I'm not speaking on that. Have MJ come in.

Hey. We already just said, This is a Team MJ.

But they were super nice, man. Super nice. It was cool that they were walking up because they watched all that in Keenan Nakele, and they were excited. I took pictures with them at that time, so that was cool. At this point, I believe Because this was the game where Kobe... Well, I know we're talking about a different game, but this was the all-star game where Kobe and Michael Jordan met up, which that was crazy because Kobe had been on our show, which was super awesome around that time, and we had a blast with him. But yeah, and then I've seen MJ other times, but in North Carolina, I was up there. I was doing this Nickelodeon thing. This was a couple of years ago, Nickelodeon thing. So it's always been cool. I always hear the crazy stories, but it's like, I haven't had a sit We had a conversation, but it's always been like, Hey, hi. He gave me a jersey. He told me I can go to the store and get whatever. So that was cool.

I almost signed with Jordan.

Really?

Yeah. After the Super Bowl MVP, we were talking with Jordan brand. Nice. But I would have had to kill J. E. 11. They didn't say you couldn't have no off-field merch.

It's only because you covered that bet for him, too. But I heard him cover.

I heard MJ wanted me in there. He said, I like him.

Yeah. This guy covers.

So I made up. Jordan brand. Jordan, man.

Shout out to Jordan, man.

That would have been sick. Should we get in the lead-up of this game? Let's get in the lead-up. Set the stage. All right, so this is the finals, of course. The path to get there. Chicago ran through Miami, had a tough seven-game series with the Knicks. This was the first year of the Pat Reilly era in New York, so that was always a great rivalry. Then they met Cleveland again, another playoff foe for them. Portland, an easier path. La LA, Phoenix, Utah, only lost four games. Old LA. Old LA. Old LA only lost four games in those three series, so they were moving. Again, we talked about it a little bit earlier with Kehl, Chicago moved. They were posting up Mike a little bit more in this playoff run. Getting to Mike in the post, getting to Mike in the post. The turnaround was working. Then also the media, with the passing of the torch, as we said, Larry's moving out, Magic's moving out. They wanted it to be Clyde versus Mike. Sports Illustrated the week before this series started, got the cover right here as we see on a collision course, and it's Clyde driving on Mike.

Then there was also the narrative that Clyde had the edge, similar player. The numbers were similar, number one and two in MVP voting this year. But They were giving Clyde the advantage because his three-point shooting was better. But as we said earlier, Mike had that famous quote, It's because I don't... He's saying, I don't choose to shoot as many threes as Clyde does. Coming into this series, which is very interesting stat here, Clyde had 338 attempts that season, shot 33.7%. Mike only had 100 attempts all year in 82 games, shot 27%. That means he made 27 threes out of those 82 games. It just wasn't a part of Mike's game at the time, which is pretty telling.

You think Mike would have changed his game and dominated this area? He had to have. I do. I think so. Definitely.

Mike is a dog. Mike is amazing.

He's amazing. It's just like with them threes, I mean, in the first half with-What do you have?

You have 35? Yeah.

It was like, he was killing it. You can't tell him he can't do something because he going to do it. Michael Jordan is going to do it. You know what I mean? In Chicago, a hero, man.

Did you buy into this hype, though, the MJ versus Clyde?

Yeah. I mean, they were putting them up against each other so much. You know what I mean? It was like that. You know what I mean? And you wanted to see them win. And seeing it as a kid. But these were like our heroes. You know what I mean? That we were watching. And it was like a superhero fight. You know what I mean? It gets these two amazing basketball players, man, at the time. And everybody was playing the video games, of course. At that time, too. Going against them.

You guys get your first Championship last year being a Chicago native. Got Michael Jordan, greatest basketball player in the world. Going into this Championship, what's the buzz in the city? Like, oh, we're going to handle these foules, or was there a little like, we got to look out for Clyde, or is it like, we got something crazy special here? What was going around Chicago?

Both handle and look out for Clyde. You know what I mean? Because they were crazy. Defense, offense, they could do pretty much everything. You know what I mean? So it was the same thing. Knowing and feel, I think, is just amazing at what he does. You know what I mean? As far as his is bananas. And to see that in this game, because you're thinking one thing is going to happen, they were in the paint waiting for Michael to do these dunks, waiting for him to do these layups. Then all of a sudden, it's like, Uh-oh. You know what I mean? Uh-oh, here come these threes. I'm going to rain on you real quick. The last one was the best because, oh, my God.

It was Clyde airballed. I got, Hey, this isn't a hate on Clyde podcast. No, he's amazing. We're just going into the matchup of what this is, the shrug game. But as soon as he airballed it, Jordan went, took it, slap.

The roof blew off the plate.

It was like three feet behind.

Insane.

Yeah, man.

And that's when he did the shrug.

It's crazy. When he did the shrug, he was like, Hey.

Looked over at Magic at the scorer's table.

Now, Magic said he was taking his money all night before with his dad. That's the story. The story goes-And he said he was shrugging him up because of that. I don't know, Magic.

He was still riled up from getting whipped in cars by Magic and and Mr. Dore. Is that what Magic said? That's what Magic said.

He said he woke up the-I love Magic, man. Now, I met Magic a bunch of times.

You got to get Magic stories?

Oh, what? Got to get us one. His show, do you remember his TV show? Yeah. Magic Johnson show. It was like the Tonight Show. And he had a great show, Keen'e To Kill. We're on there. And he always would encourage us like, You guys, you guys, you got it. You two, you all got it.

So I can't even tell us what we had. Good impression.

That's a really good magic.

What we had. And he always had a big smile on his face. Just a lot of inspiration for us, man. And I mean, doing his show, his talk show was fun because that was amazing seeing him put the jokes together.

Magic Johnson, as an athlete is such a crazy inspiration.

Dude, that's a businessman.

Yeah. You know what I mean? How to translate. He's translated his career where a lot of kids don't... I mean, if you're a historian in the game, You know Magic Johnson. He was an all-time great. But a lot of these kids know him as a businessman now. A team owner of this. He's in everything. He's got a bunch of franchises of this. A man, he's gone on and succeeded so much in every facet of his life. It's a real inspiration for young athletes that got to play professionally. How to translate after your career My career is done because this is a great temp job, but this is a temp job. This ain't like Hollywood where you guys can reinvent yourself and go and become an older guy. You got a certain amount of time, and there's a lot of guys that it hits so hard when it ends. That's right. Because you've been a creature of habit. You've been used to being an athlete, and then all of a sudden, the day, it's gone. You got to take guys like Magic Johnson. That's a man who uses time well, uses connections well, his resources First as well.

And now he's at the top and the pinnacle. Hey, man, Shaq's in there. Shaq, yeah, bro. Beckham's of the world. These guys that put their hands in so many cool areas and succeed.

Was Magic the first to do that? From being an athlete to start commentating? Was he first? Who did that first?

First to be commentating that.

Yeah, the games and stuff like that. You know what I mean?

He was one of the ones that had the quickest turnaround from retirement to Booth. But I got to look. Let me see.

Yeah. Who went to the booth first? Because I feel like that's dope that athletes are doing it now. But I feel like Magic showed everybody how to do it, but I don't know if he was the first one to do that. Yeah.

Now, do you remember? Where'd you watch this game?

It was on TV.

Do you remember where you're at?

I know it was in Chicago. It had to be a barbecue at the house because everybody used to come over and watch the games, and everybody's screaming. Was that the usual? I just remember everybody screaming at the house. He's super excited about it. Come on, Mike. Yeah, Mike.

After this game at the barbecues at the plate, did you immediately start seeing kids just shrug all the time after they hooped and flattered someone's face?

Oh, yeah, that's the thing.

And slatted someone's face?

I mean, yeah, you're definitely doing that. It became a phenol.

Everyone did it. I didn't even play basketball that much. I'd do a football player.

Of course. Of course. Everybody did that, man. And it was great. I remember because I was a short kid for a little bit. And I remember my sister's boyfriend, he threw me the ball in the game. I was playing all these big kids. And I had to do a three-point, and I did the shrug. That was this amazing moment. This amazing moment. We're at Gately, Gately Stadium. Shout out to Gately, South Side, Chicago, if I know what I'm talking about. And they threw the ball to me. And I wasn't a crazy basketball player, but it was cool to be playing with these older kids. Hadn't shot a shot yet the whole game. And then they threw it out to me because I was open. This is a big moment. You know what I mean? Because I had to show what I could do.

Yeah, when you're a young kid, you got it.

And I didn't know. Like I said, they had the cart right when it was a little off, and I threw it. And everybody was like, We don't know what's going to happen. And that ball was flying in the air. It went... And I was like, Hey. That's what I do. Not really what I do. Not really what I do. But I said, Hey, they didn't know.

It's such a slap in the face, too.

One of the game. One of the game.

That was the winning shot. Every kid did it.

Every kid did it. Jacky, you had to do it. You made me get him with it. Did I do that? It's the same thing I just nailed that in your face.

Eric was popping. Eric was popping.

I'm more of a Stefan guy.

But-shout out to Jalil, man.

I like to think that was going through Mike's head when he just ran the 6-3 on his head, setting the record. That was the story of this game. I mean, the lasting image, the most iconic moment. I mean, it's a gif now. You fucking send that everywhere. Again, 39 for Mike this game, 35 in the first half, six threes in the first half.

Did he play six minutes in the second quarter?

Yeah, they sat him in and start the second quarter. Six minutes. He did that without... I mean, insane. Portland started off hot. They were hitting everything. They did. Then Jordan responds, takes over after missing the two first threes. Also, it's worth noting, 11 assists for MJ in this one. Finish up with 39, and they end up winning 122 to 89. A blowout to start off the series. Keel, at this point, did we like, All right, we're good money in this series. We just almost gave him a 40-piece.

Yeah. I mean, it was But around this time, it was so crazy in this series because you knew Portland was good, too, as well. You know what I mean? So it was always like, you couldn't just sit back. You know what I mean? You had to wait and see what would happen. You were always on the edge of your seat. And that's what I really remember in every series. And that's why our Bulls were so dope because just when you think like, oh, no. You know what I mean? They'll come right back at you.

They're in the finals for a reason.

Of course.

There's nothing comforting, I assume, for a fan until the fat lady sings. I don't know if you say that. The lady sings. Yeah, you got to say lady sing. I like big bone ladies anyway. Yeah, man.

You hear Shannon Sharp the The other day, he said, If you ain't 180, you ain't a lady. Shannon.he's killing it. He's killing it, bro.

After math, the Bulls go on to win the Series 4-2. Jordan, Pippin, and Drexler all play on the dream team with our old guys.

Larry was still there.

That was Larry's last- Remember, he was icing the battle.

I was reading a little something about that this morning. They said Jordan just dogd Clyde the whole training camp every practice. Really? He was like, Didn't I just Bust your ass. They said it got to the point where dudes had to be like, Yo, chill, Mike.

Got it. Now, you could tell. There's guys that they use that shit to bring them to a whole another level. That was Mike. We've all watched the series. This dude's crazy in a great way. The Bulls would three-peat by winning 92, 93, 94. This was the middle. Jordan retires in '93. Remember that? To go play baseball.

I remember that. What did you think of that, Keel?

That was wild.

How was that?

We were like, What are you doing? But then it was like... Because I think around this time, I was into it because I'm just like, Well, he's killing it in basketball. And Bo Jackson was doing everything around that time. So I'm just like, of course. Yeah, let's see what he could do with it.

You thought he was good?

Yeah. I mean, not as good as basketball, but he did his thing. I remember when he hit a home... I remember it was the thing when he hit a home run. He did something, like some type of home run. I didn't follow the baseball career much, but I remember when it happened and everybody was like, Yo. And then with golf, because I remember he did that, too. Did it and got it right in the hole. So he had his moments.

It was his manager, the Boston guy, Franco, manager that won with the Red Sox.

Oh, Terry Francona.

Yeah, Francona was his manager on the Triple That's right.

Birmingham Barons, right? Yeah.

That's crazy. Dude, good pull there, bro. Now, do you ever think any athlete will have the same aura, solar system, whatever you want to call it, like Mike? I mean, his shoes. I'm still wearing his shoes.

Yeah, facts. Facts, me too. I feel like everybody has their story. You know what I mean? Because it's a lot of comparing. Everybody wants to compare. You know what I mean? Oh, this person's like that and this. But everybody got their own thing, and I think that's what's really cool about it. You look at it like, I always say Avengers, but I'm into Marvel and all that stuff like that. But you got to look at it like, give every superhero their props. You know what I mean? Like they did this thing.

You're a Marvel's guy. Who's Michael Jordan in the Marvel family?

See, look what he doing. You see how he did that?

He's smooth with it.

He's a pro, baby.

Let me see. Okay, so this is Avengers. Okay, and we got all the heroes. I want to say he's Spider-Man.

Spider-man?

People are probably going to be like, What? What? What? What? But Spider-Man is the most recognizable out of all the adventures. If you really got to look at it, and then the colors that he has, if you look at what he does and how he's still staying with it, you know what I mean? It's still there. You know what I mean? It's still there. No matter what everybody else is going on. Spider-man is still doing his thing.

Jordi since?

Yeah, man. I feel like that's what it is. Who's LeBron? You know what I mean? Who's LeBron? I want to say he's Hulk.

I like that. I like that. You know what I'm saying?

It's Hulk. It's like the same. You know what I mean? It's that vibe.

Who's Shaq?

Who's Shaq? Shout out to Shaq, man. Good burger. He was a good burger. Who's Shaq in the Marvel Universe? Who you all think Shaq is? I'm trying to think before I could put Shaq in the Marvel Universe. Oh, man. That would be dope. Wait, okay, so we got LeBron as Hulk. We got Michael Jordan as Spider-Man. And you got Shaq I think Michael Jordan, Thanos.

Thanos got the rings.

Oh, I'm just thinking hero. You went villain side. You went villain, though. You went villain, though. Who got all the rings? I didn't know we was excluding the villains. Okay, well, yeah, with all the rings.

You got Thanos. That's Bill Russell.

That's a fun one. You all need to put that out there, man. That's a fun one to do. Like the Marvel Universe of NBA. Nba teams. That's a hot one. Got it. Yeah, that's a hot one. I like that. It was so crazy.

Mj retires, goes and plays basketball for a couple of years, comes back, three peats again. Have you ever seen a three-peat in basketball again? Like that? In general. Is there going to be another three-peat? I don't know. It's a different world.

It is. Team building. With the players switching teams so much. You know what I mean? It's a whole different vibe now. You know what I mean? Mike stayed there. He was like, We're going to rock it out. You know what I mean? That's right.

Jackie, do we have any leftovers?

We talked.

What's happening?

Just some questions we We didn't get to earlier. Okay. We're talking Jordans. We're talking the cultural impact, the staying power. Kael, if you had to pick a favorite Jordan shoe, what are you picking one through? Oh, 20, whatever they've been. He's right here. Can't get on with some ones.

Sick.

You can't go. It's only one answer. There's one answer. That's right. I like the Space Jam. I'm an 11 guy.

I do like the Space Jams because I do have a pair of those. So I do love the Space Jam joints. The Flu. The Flu game. That shoe was insane. I like that shoe. I like that shoe. I used to train in the 10s because they were wide, they were comfy.

They were like Cadillacs. I had the 12s. I played in my seventh-grade basketball team on the twelves.

Oh, the twelves was hard.

But they had a little guy in the back, the hologram guy. But people were calling them Payla shoes. Oh, no. Because remember, they had the dots, the Payla shoes you used to have.

Yeah.

And people were like, Are those Payla? I'm like, No, these are fucking Jordans, dude. What are you talking about, Payla?

That's the worst.

Oh, my gosh.

We got, Keel, we talked burgers earlier.

A couple of burger connoisseurs here. If you had to build your perfect burger, what's on that thing?

Okay, so you got to have some avocado on that. Avocado. You know what I mean? A lot of avocado.

He's been in Cali.

People in Chicago, it's all right. You know It's all right. We're going to put some of this California stuff on it.

Let's get that healthy in there. Throw that in there. Healthy facts. I've had so many different burgers. You got salmon burgers. If you know how to do turkey, right. You got the good turkey burger because some people dry turkey out. They don't know how to barbecue it correctly. But being in Chicago, I know how to smoke the meat the right way and make it make it real nice.

Trigger smoker.

You know what I mean? Come on. Make Make it real right. What's our sauces? You know what I mean? The sauce is you got to go with egg sauce. Egg sauce? No, egg. Ed sauce.Egg sauce?No.

Ed.ed sauce?Ed sauce.What is Ed sauce?I.

Said Ed sauce. Good burger.

I can't tell you.

It's a secret.

Is it like a thousand island?

You got to come by the house, man.

It's a secret.How do I find this Ed sauce?

From Ed.

Where can I see Ed?

It's right here, dude.

Where do I get the sauce? Is the sauce here?

I'd make the burger for you, dude, and put the sauce on there.

How do I get to...

Who's on first here?

Oh, my Lord.

Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

The big take from Bloomberg News brings you what's shaping the world's economies with the smartest and best-informed business report borders around the world. Western nations like the US and Europe.

Mexico will likely have its first female president.

Then you have China.

And help you understand what's happening, what it means, and why it matters.

He got his yo-yos to Europe in time.

But the longer this drags on, the more worry he's getting.

They knew that they needed to do this as fast as they possibly could to get a drug on the market as fast as they could. I'm David Garra.

I'm Sarah Holder. I'm Salaya Mohsen. We cover the stories behind what's moving money in markets.

Basically, everyone was expecting, if not a calamity, certainly a recession.

But the problem is that that paperwork, as our reporting showed, is fake.

As someone who's covering the market, I'm often very worried about an imminent collapse. I'm I think he about it quite often. Listen to the big take on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Salaya Mohsent, and I've covered economic policy for years and reported on how it impacts people across the United States. In 2016, I saw how voters were leaning towards Trump and how so many Americans felt misunderstood by Washington. So I started the Big Take DC. We dig into how money, politics, and power shaped government and the consequences for voters.

It's an election year, so there's a lot of focus on the voters that TikTok is reaching.

The initial reaction is like, Oh, things are looking so resilient.

I don't want to be too pessimistic, but I just don't see the political will down in Washington right now to change their tune. I think the American electorate has been signaling that it expects a rematch of the 2020 election. These are unprecedented times.

With new episodes every Thursday, you can listen to the Big Take DC on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's grade the game. Let's grade the game. Let's go. The name of the game is the Shrug Game. Is this the best game of all time? Let's score it. Stakes. Game one is game one of the championship. So the stakes of the game, 1-10. Decimal is okay, but the stakes in a game one of a final. Now, we've had game sevens, we've had Super Bowl. What are the stakes 1-10 with decimal being okay?

I think we're going up against. This is 1-10?

1-10. Stakes are high.

High stakes. They're high. They're 10, man.

Just to put in perspective, in context, we've had game sevens on this show. We've had...

One game, elimination.One game, limbs. If you fuck up this game, you got six to more to I'm going to direct it and catch up. It is still a final. It's still a final.

We're going 10.

Yeah, man. It's high. It's 10. Star power.

Oh.

That's big.

One to 10.

It's pretty high.

It's pretty high. I feel it's pretty high. Do you have people You know what the game? Any stars in the game?

I didn't see any in the crowd that were of note. No this isn't full LA celeb, bro. But on the court, I mean, Jordan Pippen, Phil.

I mean, some legendary. Yeah, on the court. It's crazy.

All right, so it was one to 10. This is you, baby.

Let's do a nine.

Nine? All right, let's do a nine. The gameplay. What was the final score?

122,89. So it was a-It wasn't close. It was a blowout.

It was a statement game. Yeah, it was a statement game.

Start out hot.

Start fast from the Bulls.

Let them know what's happening. I'm going to go. Let's go 10, man.

10 on the gameplay. He did set a record in the first half for most threes and 35 points that still stand today.

That still stands today.

The name of the game, the shrug game, 1-10.

What is the name? Oh, you all rate the name of the game?

You got to rate the name.

Oh, I like that. The shrug. I mean, the shrug, that's what it was. But I get eight.

Eight? That's fair. I just got one of my producers hit me. He's sick right now named Kyler. He's going to go and say, Well, gameplay being a 10 on a 40, 40 Point blowout. We've had 28 to three. We've had this. We've had that. Now, are you sure? Final answer. You want gameplay to be a 10.

Kyler's our Russian judge. He's the Russian He's a Russian judge. He's Russian judge. He's tough.

He's Russian judge.

Do I want gameplay to be a 10? I mean, if we're talking about what happened, though, man.

That's him right now. He's working remote. He said, Thank you. Yeah, he's working remote.

Oh, so I can't...

No, you can. But we're going to put this-But think about what happened, man.

I see Jordan take out this- show this other skill.

Keep it 10. Let's see what the...

If my math is correct, I believe this is a 9.25..

Where does it stand in our list here? Of the games that we've done here on games with names.

Just ahead of Game 4, the 2004 ALCS, and then just behind behind the 18-1 Super Bowl, Giants versus Patriots.

Was that the game where the Red Sox were down 3-0, and they were down a bunch of... And then they came back.

Back against the wall, Big Papy, Mr. Clutch comes through, and the rest is history. Oh, man. So, yeah, this is a high one, man. It's a high one. It's our first Jordan game. It's our first Jordan game.

Oh, well, then there it is. Yeah.

And it's a shrug game.

It's a shrug game.

Shai town, baby.

Give him a shrug.

Yo, And since this is a show, NBA players, Ron Harper was on Kenan & Kael.

We were watching that episode. Yeah, we were watching that episode. Dude, he dropped the orange soda right on his foot.

I dropped it on his foot, man. We were watching.

Because we were just doing research, and I wanted to brush up. We saw Ron Ron Art. Was he cool?

He was mad cool. Mad cool. It was like... And then you could see acting. It was like his first acting gig, but he did it. He got the lines down. It was cool.

Who is the worst celebrity at acting?

I'm not going to answer.

It wasn't Grunk. Grunk was in that Grunk. He comes ready, man, with the improv and all that.

I love Grunk, man. We work with him a few times.

We just had Grunk on. Oh, really?

Oh, he's awesome, bro. Got a great Welcome to Good Burger impression, too. Yeah, does he? Yeah, he does. He cracks me up, man. But yeah, man. No, I mean- Now, you don't have to answer that. Okay. I'm not going to answer that, man. I'm going to see these people in the streets.

Man, kill. We miss anything from this game?

No. You know what I mean? It was an awesome game. Amazing game. I mean, everybody knows they've seen it. It's great. And the commentating by magic is amazing in it as well. You know what I mean? Yeah, man, the shrug game, man, you got to do it. You know what I mean? And then don't let nobody box you in. Man. You know what I mean? Can't. Can't let them box you in. You can't. Michael showed us that.

Michael, he'll stew something up and punish you for it. Dude.

I'm such a villain.

Everyone, you got to go out and see Good Burger 2 on Paramount Plus streaming now. Anything we miss? You want anything else to plug?

Man, much love, you all. When I come back, we got to talk about Robin. That's right.

This is a pro-R Robin podcast.

Shout out, Dennis. The worm.

But yeah, man, good burger, too, man. Go check it out, man.

Got to check it out. It's awesome. I appreciate you coming on. Oh, man.

Thank you for having me, bro. Have fun, man. Thanks, Keel.

Man, what a fun episode.

Keel rocked, man. Good energy. What a guy.

What an energy. What a guy. Also, it brought us down memory lane of, at least for me, I'm 37, turned 38, 92, Nickelodian.

Sweet spot. Sweet spot.

Sweet spot.

Oh, my God. Speaking of that and speaking of good burger, and great fictional burger spots, that brings us to the post-show segment.

What's the post-show segment?

Let's talk about which fictional burger spots we would most want to hit up.

What's a Pulp Fiction fiction spot?

Dude, that is my pick. Big Cahuna Burger.

Big Cajuna Burger. They got the tasty beverages. I think they're opening one of those.

Really?

Yeah, I think someone's opening That always did. It looks pretty good.

I like that. They got Burger World and Beavis and Butt Head. Burger World. Fatso Burger from that '70s show.

I like Crusty Burger from...

Crusty Burger from the Simpsons. God, I love that, man. Crusty. What else we got? Ponch Burger from Parks and Rec.

What's a burger in a Spongebob? Oh, Crabby Patty. Crabby Patty.

Crabby Patty. Also, can't forget about McDonald's, bro. Coming to America. That's the best one. Coming to America. We're sitting in New York huddled up eating McDonald's.

Oh, my God. Remember the scene where he's talking about the Giants? No. He was talking about the Giants. Eddie Murphy's guy, he was talking about the Giants and the boss, the dad. He goes, Son, you need to lay off. Don't check me. I just saw it on something.

It was pretty funny. My Coming to America knowledge is... I haven't seen it in a while.I'm lusty.I.

Love Coming to America.

We got to rewatch that.

The barbershop scenes are always the best.

Oh, my God. With Eddie playing Everybody.

Eddie Murphy as the white guy is so funny.

It'll never not be funny playing the old white guy.

He's like the original guy that did all characters in the movie.

Came back to bite when he was doing all the characters in Norbit. That's why they said they didn't give him the Oscar. Because he was for the Oscar in Dreamgirls. And then Norbit came out in between the voting period, and they punished him for Norbit. Norbit. How are you going to punish Eddie for that?

Can't.

Can't forget about some other ones. You got McBurger Town and Family Guy. Some of these lists count the Max from Save by the Bell. I don't really think that is a burger spot. I think it more is like a-Max? Like a diner. It's a good spot to sit on a chair backwards, AC Slater style, but burger?

I mean, they probably got a burger, but you probably get mozzarella Yeah, like a little basket of fries.

You're trying to riz up Kelly Kapowski here. I'm not trying to stuff my face with a big burger.

No, it can't be sloppy. Maybe some chicken fingers.

Something good and clean. All right, so I feel like the consensus is we're hitting Big Kahuna.

Big Kahuna.

Hell, yes. Quentin, shout out. Samuel.

Julius.

This is a tasty burger. Hell, yeah. All right.

One episode. Thanks to Kell again. That's been another episode of Games with Names, presented by Wyn Bet. Remember to follow Games with Names on YouTube, Instagram, X, TikTok, and Snapchat. We'll see you guys next week. Games with Names is a production of iHeartRe. Radio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's just so much noise out there right now, and we don't want to add to it. All we want to say is, visit Frank Keen Volkswagen to purchase your new or used Volkswagen car or commercial vehicle. You can be assured of an excellent experience and, oh, the best offers, of course. Visit frankine Volkswagen in Liffey Valley and Sandiford, or find out more at frankinevolkswagen. Ie.

Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Salaya Mosin, and I've covered economic policy for years and reported on how it impacts people across the United States. In 2016, I saw how voters were leaning towards Trump and how so many Americans felt misunderstood by Washington. So I started the Big Take DC. We dig into how money, government and the consequences for voters. With new episodes every Thursday, you can listen to the Big Take DC on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.