Hello, everybody. Good morning. Welcome along to the Garrobaldi Red podcast. We are live on Facebook, Nottingham Forest News and Garrobaldi Red on YouTube on this Monday morning. And not just an ordinary Monday morning, a crucial Monday morning given Forest's potential points deduction that will most likely come later on today. It may well come during this podcast as we're doing it the next hour, I will reiterate, if you're listening back on Spotify or just on YouTube, and the points deduction has happened as we're recording this on a Monday morning, we have no idea. So do bear with us if the news does break. As Forrest traveled to Luton, not yesterday, Luton on Saturday for a huge Cup final, if you like, game, the Reds. So nearly left the hatter's mad. However, a late goal saw Forest drop more points from winning positions, a possible 21 now. And Forest probably set to sit inside the relegation zone given a points deduction today. To discuss all of that and more joined by, first of all, a last minute substitution off the bench is like Chris Wood, Dom from Over the Trent. Dom, good to see you, mate. Thanks for coming on this morning.

Absolutely. Pleasure I'm Roger Mac. I've listened to this podcast for a long, long time and to hear the music as we compared to Chris Wood, well, today's already made. Thank you very much for having me.

I love that. Well, fingers crossed, it will make your day better, given probably the news we're about to have. Also joined by George Butler, Forest I'm a fan broadcaster. George, good to see you again. How are you, apart from the possible news today and the football at the minute?

Yeah, football aside, all good. I just hope that Dom is going to be this season's Chris Wood, not last season.

Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed, you will. Right. Let's kick off then with such a big day, and we will look back to the looting game. But we'll start with you, George. When you look at a day like today that really does define football clubs, we saw it with Everton. If if you like, when they got the points deduction and the news broke, just how big a day is it? And also it defines Forest Sees in this, doesn't it?

It definitely does because, I mean, obviously the points alone, when you're in a relegation battle, three points could be the, we found out last year, it could be what makes or breaks us. But also from a momentum point of view, a psychological point of view, I think it feels like we're playing with a lot of pressure at the moment, and you'd have thought that that's tied to this decision. Perhaps actually, regardless of what happens, it could be a good thing just to have this decision out of the way. Obviously, not losing points puts us in a much better position for staying up. But even if the news comes back that we're losing three or six points, maybe that adds some spark and fire and takes that unknown out of the equation. So it's a massive day. I'm just pleased that it's coming. Hopefully, it does come today, or it's obviously likely to come the next few days, if not. I'm just pleased it's going to be here, and it's not going to be over our... And it's not just the players, it's the fans, it's the whole club. We just need this news to come in, and we need our fate to be given to us, really, don't we?

Yeah, we do. And especially if it's not that much in terms of the points deduction, that potentially Forest won't appeal, and We use it then as almost that siege mentality going into the next few games, especially after the international break. Dom, it's also interesting. It's going to come before the international break. I mean, as players, as professionals, and also as new know as a professional manager, it must just be constantly on their mind, and surely they just want it out of the way. And as George says there, get it out of the way and almost move on as a football club, do you think?

Totally agree. George hit it absolutely nail on the head We just need to get this done, move on from it, and create almost a Billy Davis-like island mentality. That works so well back in the Championship, and we're in a dogfight right now. Let's not kid ourselves. The teams, Luton, Everton, they're really working hard on I don't see that with Forest, we need to look into rallyers. And whilst this is a very negative day for Nottingham Forest Football Club, I think this could be a turning point, positivity-wise, because if we all look at the players, they don't seem like a team in the same way they did last year. I know we were saying they don't seem a team last year, but by the end of last season, they seemed and felt like a team. We saw that in the celebrations on the final day. Even Jesse Lingard being essentially a cheerleader at every game, making sure everyone was supported and Bianconi going to every game You just don't see that with Nottingham Forest at the moment. You look at Luton, Burke, Menge, the way they tracked back to stop those goals going in meant it was like a matter of life and death.

I think Forest needs to wake up because we've been sleepwalking into this relegation battle. And once this point of action puts us in the relegation spot for the two week period it's going to be, I think that will wake a lot of Nottingham Forest players up.

Yeah, totally agree. And it will probably wake a lot of the fans up that thought that maybe we wouldn't ever get to this point. Tom, just touching actually on your point there. You mentioned about sleep walking into a relegation fight. Do you think even without a points production, let's say points production PSR didn't exist, that Forest would still be in trouble now, given the recent performances and given the way the football club is at the minute?

I don't know, because this very strange cloud that's hung over the city ground since January has really impacted how we've played. If you look at that game where we beat Man United, we beat Newcastle United the week before, there's so much positivity. And since then, we've not really been able to deal with the pressure. Every time there's been a big pressure game, Forest have conceded a late goal. Almost like when we were trying to get to the playoffs and we concede over and over and over again in the 90 plus minute. It feels like we're doing that. Again, the fitness isn't there. I think everyone's so nervous that it's impossible to tell whether we would be in this situation. I think there's a lot of good players at this club, and if they didn't have that pressure, we're just going towards mid-table mediocrity, something we all dream of at the moment. I think we would be a little bit safer, but it's impossible to tell and it's just hanging over. So I think that is affecting current performance.

Yeah, I totally agree. Do keep your comments coming as well on YouTube and Facebook. This one here from Michael says, 6 points deduction, we will be doomed and we will be relegated. Yvonne says, explain why our defense is so wrong. That's a podcast itself, to be honest. She also says it looks like some of our players are not up for the fight. I think you can agree a little bit in times at the looting game. George, when you look back at last season and Dom touched on there about players towards the end of last season when Forest survived and you had that fight and you had that passion, that is something that a lot of the fans are calling on at the minute for the Forest squad to do more of and saw against Luton slightly. Do you think the squad does have fights? I asked Mark when we did a post-match stream for the podcast on Saturday, and he just says there just seems to be a real lack of almost cohesion, lack of team togetherness, and you could really see that on Saturday.

You know what? I mean, yes, We definitely are lacking in that. No one can watch the games over the last few months and really argue against that. I think the tricky thing is when you are a Premier League club that comes up from being a fairly humble Championship side with a lot of lone players and no base, we're not even like a Burnley that I've come in with at least a decent core. We came up with some gritty Championship players and Brennan Johnson, pretty much, right? And we clearly have aspirations from the club, from the ownership, to be a lot more than a team that clings on to the Premier League every year. So I can understand why last year we had a team which was... It had a lot of heart, it had a lot of grit, and it had a little bit of quality. And this season, the quality has got a lot better. But we're not yet, and it's understandable why, but we're not yet at a quality in which we are a mid-table team that have players that will be able to, without running through a wall, be able to get us points.

And we're at a stage where we've got a few of those really high quality players, and we're starting to build a really decent Premier League team, the likes of Marillo, Alanga, obviously, Morgan gives white. But the whole team isn't of that quality. The whole team isn't of a mids Premier League table quality, which these days is asking a lot. That is a really high quality of international players across the board if you want to be mid table in the Premier League. So I feel like we've been left in a position where we've got a better quality team than last year, but we've lost a few of the players that would... Like your Warrles and your Mckenas, they're not as good. Let's be real. They're not as good in terms of quality as some of the players that we But they had that fight, that determination, and that culture that they brought to the team, which probably spread through the team of we're going to do anything to win. And we've lost that. And I don't think the quality that we've added has made up for that, in my opinion.

Yeah, I totally agree. Because, Dom, I just think at the minute, the feeling around the city ground, you mentioned there, the point of seduction looms over it. But even taking that away, there just doesn't seem to be that togetherness, that club atmosphere at the minute. I hate to keep alluding to him and to the name, but we'll always remember, is when Steve Cooper said, This place oooses football soul. I'll never forget that in an interview. And at the moment, it doesn't seem to lose football soul at all. And there's no connectivity between the fan base, the manager, and the club, you could argue at times.

Yeah, it feels very disparate, doesn't it? It feels just the players George I mentioned there, it's Scott McKenna, Steve Cooke, Joe Warrell. The backline essentially started against West Ham. They'd all been Championship players. It was a real privilege to be in the Premier League. And for the whole fan base, it felt like a privilege to be in that position. For the manager, it felt like a privilege to be in that position. And now we've just assimilated very, very quickly. We feel like it's our right to be here almost already by some elements of the fan base. And we need to remember, we need to settle in. And do you remember Man City and the BBC Five Live commentary just said, I'm going to stop talking here. We're just going to listen to the fans because this is what Premier League football is all about. When was the last time this year we had a fan experience like that? It just hasn't happened. The fan base isn't feeling it in the same way. And you go to Kenneworth Road, that meant so much to every single Luton town player and fan and everyone involved in the club because it is their privilege to be in the Premier League this year.

And that's no disrespect to them because we're in the same position. I just don't I think, whether it be the ticket prices, we've seen that go up for people like me and you, Max. It's gone from 150 to 490 within the space of a year with no warning. And whether that's impacted the atmosphere, I don't know. But everything financially is going up at the city ground. It's £2.60 for a bottle of water. No wonder the atmosphere is not going well.

We're all dehydrated.

But it's so expensive to have a day out at the city ground. It's so expensive to consistently go and know the chance, know the atmosphere. And I think that's impacting our home for me. We only had two or three wins this year at home. It's nowhere near what it used to be. I do think there's not that same connection between Nuno and the fan base, and that's no disrespect on Nuno. You can't follow Steve Cooper in that, who is just superb at man management and fan management. So it's a very difficult job to do, especially with the point of action that is looming over our heads, but it just doesn't seem to be that soul, that atmosphere, that belief in the club anymore, and that's very worrying.

But you nailed there, Don, because you've gone from a master of one of Cooper's biggest skills, what maybe he had where he didn't necessarily always have it tactically or whatever. He knew psychology so well, didn't he? Of players, of fans, of media, When he created that atmosphere. Obviously, it was everything coming together, but he really helped create it. Whereas Nuno is the opposite. He's masterfully, when he comes over his career, he's a masterful tactician, but he couldn't be further from a Cooper-type manager when it comes to cultivating atmosphere.

Totally agreed. You look at when Forrest have done well, there's always been a cult of personality at the head. We all know who I'm alluding to here. But even under Billy Davis, we did well because there was that atmosphere behind him. And we've had so many managers. I think we've got a perfect specimen to do an experiment of when we need someone behind us and when we need a distant figure. I think Forrest always We just need that person to really lift the crowd up. And we've got nine games left. It's very worrying what could happen if we go down with the amount of money we've spent. If we go down, we could be in real, real trouble.

Max, do you not think it's on the pitch as well, though? Do you not think We need... Yeah, all right, Cooper was that and Nuno maybe isn't, but we need a few of the players on the pitch to be maybe bringing that personality a little bit more. Obviously, Yates brings it as much as one player can, but And maybe we need a bit more from, and I'm not talking football here, I'm talking about bringing that soul out of the club and the city ground from the likes of Gibbs White. I think Toffalo has been doing a really good job of it recently of interacting with the community, but maybe we need a few players to step into that void.

Yeah. I think we need players that show sometimes a little bit more passion and fight. And you look at players like Ryan Yates and Harry Toffalo, especially Harry Toffalo. Look, we all know Harry Toffalo He isn't, no disrespect to him, but a world-class footballer, but he's a very good Premier League addition. He's a very good player for Forest. I also think that if you have the fans behind you and you have the backing of the fans on the terraces, then you'll often do really well on the pitch. I think that's the case with Toffalo. It is interesting, though, and I alluded to, I think on Saturday with Mark, is we were talking about last season how you mentioned it briefly there, George. You've got the players like Joe Warrall, you have the players like Scott McKenna, Brennan Johnson. That's just three, to name a few, that know what it means to the city, to the football club to get promoted. They know what it means to Nottingham as a whole. Now, we've had a huge turnover of players. Agree with it or not, 30 signings was probably too much. Let's be realistic. And given within those 30 signings, there's only still a few now that feature in the first team in terms of from last season.

But actually, where Where is that almost connectivity with the fans? You could also argue as well that the fans will start making noise when Forest win games. Maybe the reason that we did well, and in terms of the city ground was loud, was in the Championship winning season Forest were winning most weeks at the city ground, and we had an unbelievable home record, and we had those FA Cup moments. So that's maybe where it comes into George as well. You look at maybe it's as simple as if Forest win against Crystal Palace, the atmosphere is going to be booming, and it be booming for 2-3 games after lose, and it's a completely different scenario.

Completely. And there's two things there. I think you're totally right, Max. Momentum is everything in football. We've seen that over the last few seasons. It's what brought us up, and it's what kept us up. A win will change everything. It will change the atmosphere, and it's like building blocks, and it leads on to something which is a bit more, as you say, a bit more of a brighter future in the short term. So I think momentum is everything, and momentum is what brought Cooper down, and momentum when Nuno came in was what got us all excited. So I would completely agree with that. And I would also say that actually Perhaps we are this season almost like a victim of our own success in that we have got amazing... And this is not me knocking the club for having huge ambitions for us to quickly become a much better team. And because of that, we've obviously spent We brought in a lot. But I mean, if you worked in a business and you go into the office every day and you fast forward a year and you're the only employee left and the managers, the ownership might be the same, but the manager who runs the office is gone and all of your colleagues around you are completely different, the culture of the team is going to be completely different.

It's not something that you click in it and it's there. It does take time to build. It does take time to grow. So So in that sense, we've been a bit of a victim of our own success that we wanted to grow so quickly and we wanted to improve so quickly. But these things do take time and there is no quick fix, especially in football. So I think it's one of those things that if we do manage to get a few wins together, we will be in a brighter position. Momentum will shift, and actually we've got really good building blocks to become a much better team. But these things do take time.

Yeah, I love a start on this podcast. We're talking about home records. Forest have only picked up 15 points from home this season compared to last season's unbelievable home record. That means we're the fifth lowest in the Premier League. Burnley are the lowest on only five points. So that's interesting to throw into the mix. Just read some comments out quickly. This one from Matthew says, Looting this season or us from last season. I want to look at their fixtures and want them to lose. Yet I don't. I find myself going, Well, if we can't get our own finger out, then we deserve to be in renegation. Mark says, A one-one draw was always the best we were getting, I'm guessing in terms of the Looting game. And we will go back to that, Dom, sadly. So I hope it doesn't cause too much damage to people listening or watching to talk about it again. But just so disappointing that Forest had to do a Nottingham Forest and throw it away in the 89th minute, wasn't it? With a set piece. That's 19 goals It was conceded from set pieces, and it just doesn't read well at all.

When you look at that game, Dom, what do you think was lacking? We talk about that passion fight. Do you think it was that? Do you think it was more tactically, the team selection? What do you think went wrong in your opinion?

I honestly don't know what quite went wrong for Nottingham Forest, because if you look, Righi and De Langer have two or three brilliant chances, but Burke and Mengi clear off the line. Luke Berry scores. Okay, set pieces, we need to talk about I think there's something almost endemic within Nottingham Forest. My dad tells me when he was going to that late '80s Wembley run, he'd still go to my mom, We're going to concede from set pieces back in the late '80s. I don't think that has ever changed throughout my lifetime, his lifetime, my grandpa's lifetime. I believe under Eito Karanka, we had the highest goals conceded from set pieces. What is it about Nottingham Forest Football Club that we can't defend set pieces and we can't score for them? When was the last time we scored directly from a free kick? I can't remember I can't tell you. Ben Osborne against Bristol City? It's ridiculous. But the chances we're not taking are really frustrating. I think we went to five hours of football without scoring a goal. That is simply not good enough. We got Divock, Righi, and Elanger, two very, very good players who are just not hitting the heights.

I talked to Alex Duke, who's a fantastic reporter for Great Setsradia, who massive Liverpool fan, and he's saying that Divock Reggie is someone who comes out for the big games. We saw how good he was against West Ham and how good he was against Man United and Liverpool. But since that and bar those games, he's not really hit the heights, has he? I just didn't quite get it over the line, quite literally. And Elanger's shooting boots are never quite... You're never quite comfortable with them, are you? You never feel like he's going to take that big chance. So I think shooting-wise, we should have had two or three goals, but in fairness, Ross Barkley took some fantastic shots, and he's fair play to him. He deserves a shout out. He's worked so hard to get his career back on track, and best of luck to him the rest of his career. But off defending at Set Pieces. We got a set peaches, set peaches, set pieces, Coach. What is he doing that Tahitian can be so open next to the back post and no one spot him?

It's been reported that he's perhaps not doing too much. Perhaps he's not really being used by the current set up. You've seen that as well, Max, I'm assuming.

Yeah, it was reported. Just for people listening or watching live now, it was reported by The Athletic on Saturday evening, Daniel Taylor reported that this was a player, a set-piece coach that was brought in by Forest under Cooper. It was Cooper's choice. And Nuno just hasn't really had much involvement with him at all, which you can see, because if you had a set piece, Coach, as you say, Dom, surely we would be better at them. George, when you just look at Forest again, you think, why can't Forest hold on to a lead? 21 points dropped from winning positions. And if you even think half of those points held on, half of those games where Forest could hold on. And you look at the reverse fixture against Luton, for example, at home when we were 2-0 up earlier in the season, it is just disappointing. And even without a points deduction, if Forrest get relegated, ultimately at the end of this season, there is only so much blame you can put on referees, injuries, and a points deduction. I can remember talking about it the other week with with Steve on the podcast, and he constantly said, you've got to control what's in our hands.

And Forrest don't seem to be doing that at the minute. We're not helping ourselves in any way.

Yeah. I mean, it's definitely a confidence thing, a momentum thing, an attitude thing where we don't almost believe we're going to win games at times. And obviously, these things only change when you do manage to get the clean sheets and win the games. That's when you can build and that's when you can build, and that's when you can grow that momentum. I mean, you see it with You see it with strikers scoring goals and you see it with defenders keeping clean sheets. Confidence and momentum means so much, especially in the Premier League. We saw it last season. In the second half of last season when we were at home, we would have that one goal lead, and I'd sit there in the sands and feel like we were going to win because we were going to grind it out. We had that confidence in grinding out results, which we don't have at the moment. So I do think it is a slippery slope that it gets worse and worse, and you're looking around thinking, Are we going to concede here? The fans are thinking it, the players are thinking it. So it is one of those classic things in football where we just need something to go.

I'm not saying go our way because you make your own luck, but we need to grind it out. And I think once we do, we will start to see a bit more confidence for a time. But right now we're a team that is very, very low on confidence.

Yeah, we are indeed, and it doesn't look good. I mean, Dom, what do you think is the... It's a difficult question, but what do you think has gone wrong for Forest this season? A lot of people talk about recruitment being a huge issue, maybe selling Brennan Johnson, getting rid of Steve Cooper. What would you put your finger on without a points deduction, why Forest find themselves in this position at the moment, just outside the relegation zone and in a real rut?

Max, that is a I think you can look at all areas of the pitch: goalkeeping, defending. I think midfield has been fair. There's been no shockers, striking. We've not taken our big opportunities. Overall, just simply, we haven't been on it. We haven't quite hit what's required of a good Premier League team. We've never looked like we're going to go on a roll. We've only had a handful of really good performances. Look at possibly back when we beat Chelsea the day after Brennan Johnson had just left. And there's a real momentum about the club. The international break comes in and we go on a disappointing home form, and we don't really ever build momentum from there. We've only had two or three wins since then, I think four wins in the league. I think momentum is a big part of it. We're not making our own momentum, but just overall not good enough at times. We're just simply not good enough. There's no team cohesion. I think that element of just gathering in as many players as we can to find those right gems is coming to its fruition now. We're not a team. It doesn't feel like a team at all.

There's many times when people are looking up, taking that extra second to go, right, he should be there and I need to pass it to him. Whereas back when we were playing under Steve Cooper in the Championship, I know it's a different level, and those players had barely changed since the start of the season. They just have that natural fluidity to them. It's so rigid at times watching Forest. They're just trying to almost tick boxes, not play football. I just think we need to reduce the playing squad, whatever happens this year, whether we have to just literally end people's contracts. Just get it down to a group of people that are just here for Nottingham Forest, here for Nottingham. How many times we played the same 11, two or three times in a row? Not that many. We're always rotating the squad, and that's just going to build that rigidity, and that's going to build to the unknowingness about playing not football at Forest, but just not a team, in my opinion.

Yeah, no, totally agree. And also it's just the lack of consistency and team cohesion and things like that. Another negative to come out of Saturday as well, George, Taewo Ohwani out between two and three weeks. It's expected, could be longer, but just really disappointing that given he came back from a lengthy injury or all of that hype wasn't on his top form, but he'd just come back from injury and was probably lacking that fitness and that sharpness. He manages to get a few goals during it as well, but now he's out for two or three weeks. And it's just a huge miss, isn't it? Because we're going to need whoever to score goals and ultimately win Forest Games, given the situation we're in.

Completely. And I also miss the Steve Cooper two or three weeks, and then they'd like, turn up in the team, like three days later. He obviously hasn't been fit since his return. He didn't look particularly sharp, but obviously having him in the team, having him around to make a few goals was helpful. It means a huge He is by far our best striker, and obviously, Wood's done really well this season. He offers something different, but it's very difficult to play in that real, real, real, real, real quick style, countering, playing very direct and using our wingers when you also haven't got Taibo, who is not just brilliant at holding the ball up, but really good at getting in behind and making those runs and getting into the space. So he's a huge loss. Frankly, at a time of the season where we need to nick a goal from nowhere and grind out points and wins, it is It's obviously a massive loss. There's nothing more you can really say about it. Also, obviously, when he returns, how fit will he be? I think it's about looking at what we can do, what our options are.

Obviously, we played two slightly more traditional forwards against Luton. It didn't necessarily work. We didn't really have the pace on Origi's side. So how can we get the most out of a front three, which is led by wood? That's the big question. That's what we really need to work on over the international break.

Yeah, for sure. International break coming up and possibly Forest going into it with a point seduction, but time, I guess, for Nuno to spend time with the players and hopefully We do Forest the world of good given the poor run of form and everything else going on. Dom, I wanted to touch on... I saw a lot on Twitter and a lot on social media and even a lot of comments coming in to us this morning whilst we're live about Gio Reina not getting a chance. The same with Riberio, Rodrigo Riberio, the young striker up front. It's interesting. Two players you bring in January transfer, deadline day, quite highly rated, and yet really yet to Yet to feature. Do you think they should be given more of a chance?

I'm not sure about Riberio or Ribero, however you're pronouncing it. I think he's a bit young and I was a bit surprised. He didn't get a run out against Blackpool. No, that would have been a bit too early, but I'm surprised that just hasn't had a few runs out in the FA Cup. But Reina is so strange not having any minutes. We're really crying out for some depth. Reina, he's a very, very good player. Obviously, a lot to to develop on and we're not going to see the best of him at Nassim Forest. But why not try him? We've got so many... We're desperate to score goals. And if this lad is as good as everyone says he is, why don't we just put him on the pitch and just letting him have a go? Because he's got so much to prove now, and He's going to go back and play with the US men's national team. He's going to really want to show that he is ready for the future in Bundesliga or wherever the world takes him. Why not just let him out? And he's like a caged animal. Just let him have a go.

What's the worst that can happen? Honestly, what is the worst can happen? We can't score goals anyway. So what's going to happen? We're not going to score goals with a different player on the pitch. That's the worst that can happen.

You agree that, George. To a degree, I would say the flip side is the moments he's come on, he's not look very particularly great. It's quite harsh me saying that because he's not had many chances and he's probably come on quite late into games and stuff. He hasn't necessarily come on and set the world alight. He's not necessarily, in his moments that he's been allowed onto the pitch, showed that he is this huge talent. Obviously, as a fan, you sit there going like, I would love to see this new quite hyped player on the pitch. But at the same time, if Maybe he just isn't showing that in training. Maybe he just isn't putting it in. I mean, there has to be a reason why he's not being given any minutes. I don't know. It's one of those things that if he came on as sub and looked electric, I'd be going, Why on earth are we not giving him more minutes? But obviously, as of yet, that's not happened.

I think he also just needs more consistent playing time as well because how many times he played more than 10 minutes from off the bench, I think he just needs We need to give him a big opportunity. That would be the only thing I'd say because he's only had five minutes spells at best. So I think we need to just give him that little opportunity. But I do see what you mean. He has never really felt electric, but he's so young. You look at what happened to Danilo last year. He burst onto the scene very in January, then we didn't see a lot of him. I just feel that we forget. I think I can do this a lot. We forget how young this lad is. We forget how young Danilo still is. He just moved from a different country and he's just settling into Nottingham. Maybe we just need to look after him a little bit more off the pitch, and then that might bear fruit on the pitch.

I also think there's a slight issue with where he plays because obviously he plays in the same role as Gibbs White. It doesn't look like he can play off the wing or he certainly hasn't been played on the wing. So I think there is a bit of an issue in the sense that he plays in the same position as our best player. So do you not play Gibbs White?

Well, it's one of those when we're chasing a game, say one-nil down at Brighton, and we need a goal, is it worth putting him on? It's one of those. We can have a few people in the same position. I do see what you mean. It's very difficult to take away from Gibbs-White. But yeah, I do think we just need to try something. We've got him, let's try and use him a little bit more. But We're running our games to do that, though, so that is very difficult for Nuno. It's a very hard balancing act, isn't it?

Yeah, it is for sure. Just one more player to throw in there. I touched on him a little bit on Saturday after the game, but someone that's dominated the forest, I was about to say Twitter timeline or X timeline, should I say now, Sangare, and there was questions about whether we actually miss Mangala. George, what's your take on Sangare as a player? It didn't show a lot for for me on Saturday, and maybe that's a player right there that we talk about that passion and fight. Maybe that's a player that lacks that.

We undoubtedly miss Mandala. You can't say that we don't. It seems a strange decision It was a decision in January to get rid of him unless there were, I'm sure there were reasons that weren't made public, but it seemed like a strange decision at the time. It seems like an even more bizarre decision now looking at the fact that we really do miss that ability to start playing football from our own half and distributing the ball and moving well with it. It seems like a very odd move, even more so now, to get rid of him. Sangara, I think, look, Would he have been my choice of player as somebody who doesn't work in professional football? It's easy for me to say this. Would it have been my choice to have signed another holding midfielder similar to a few of the players we've already got? Probably not my top choice. I would have maybe rather we had signed a ballplay midfielder. I think you have got players like Yates who obviously are at different quality levels but do bring a lot to the team when they play in that role. I think it's very difficult for players to come to the Premier League and immediately just be at their 30 million pound potential.

You see it time and time again that it does take a bit of time for players to get up to speed with the league, especially when they come from a slightly slower league like they've got in Holland. So whilst I wouldn't put it on the player, I do question the recruitment strategy to maybe bring in a player in that area where we had decent options instead of maybe looking to feel parts of the pitch where we struggle a little bit I'm not going to put our season on him. I don't think he's been particularly great. I wouldn't necessarily start him in our next game. But at the same time, I have an optimistic approach that he's one of those players that are just going to take a bit more time to find their feet in the Premier League. But I thought it was a bit of a strange decision signing him at the time. Not him as a person, but in that position rather than in other positions. And I stand by that thought.

Yeah. Interesting take there, George, and agree and think a lot of Forest fans will do as well about the recruitment side and players being brought in. Just a few comments. This one for me and this one from Ian that's cracked me up. Hi, gang. I don't get the coverage here in Melbourne, but always keep up to date with Results and News. Hope the team can turn it around. Love the passion. Thanks, Ian. Well, fingers crossed. You can listen to Gary I've already read. And you know what? We might do a podcast later on tonight about the points deduction. And given the time difference, you might just be waking up then. So you might be able to watch.

Something for your breakfast.

Yeah, exactly. You can have some breakfast for you while listening to my voice. I couldn't think of anything worse when you're eating your cornflakes. Right. Just to close us before we go because we have a shorter episode today, given that no news is yet to come out as we're approaching half 10 as we're recording this, but we will be doing podcasts later on, given a points deduction. Dom, just, I'm I'm asking every Forest fan that comes on the podcast. How do you feel at the moment? Do you feel that Forest will stay up? Are you still hopeful, even with a points deduction?

Max, I am the biggest pessimist possible when it comes to Nottingham Forest. I grew up when we'd blow play off games every year. So of course I think we're down. However, that's not a bad thing. I never think we're going to do anything. I never think England are going to get out the group stages because I'm a pessimist. However, if, logically, I think we're in We're in for a battle. I think we're in for a real battle. And Luton town are our biggest rivals at the moment, and it really depends on what comes out today. If it's four points, if it's six points, it could even be something ridiculous. And I know Everton weren't expecting 10 points. No one's expecting 10 points. But we've got to remember this whole system doesn't really make sense. No one quite understands it. That's why we're all living off rumors and hearsay. So we got to be prepared for the worst. But anything from three to five points and even six points, we're in for a fight because that's one win off getting level with looting again. We've got this slightly easier running compared to looting, but we've got to start taking chances and we've got to keep some clean sheets.

We've had one clean sheet since November the sixth. One clean sheet. That's not good enough if you want to stay up. Obviously, I looked at this this time last year, we were going through quite a similar spell. We lost to Newcastle, West Ham, Spurs, Leeds, Villa, Man United, and Liverpool. Then by the end of April, we just got on this good little run, the Brighton game, which is It was one of my favorite games to rewatch. The atmosphere that night was something special. But I think the fans, we all have to do our bit now. We've got to be positive off the pitch. We've got to rally behind the players, and we could turn this around, but I think we're going down, but that's not the logical thing to say. I've got to say it like that.

George, you agree?

No, I think we're staying up. I think as long as we don't lose more than six points, I think that the weight of that decision has been weighing on us. We're going to play with a little bit less pressure. I think wins change the course of momentum, and all of a sudden, things are looking a bit more positive. I think we've got enough to stay up. I think we will stay up.

Yeah, fingers crossed. That's the spirit. I'm going to sit on the fence and say, I don't know yet.

No, come on, Max. Put your money, let me go in.

I thought it was how we started to remain. I think At the minute, I'm tending to agree more with Dom, sadly. I think that it's looking more and more likely that Forest will get relegated. However, George, I see you, I hear you.

I honestly wish I was like you, to be so positive.

I don't think it's not been the best season, has it? I just also look below us and think, no disrespect to any of the teams below us. They're all worthy of their place, but I do think we are better than those teams, and I do think we have enough to stay up. Let's see.

Yeah, let's see. Paul Merson on Soccer Saturday actually said that he thinks that however many points Forest gets, he still thinks we're going to stay up because we've got a good squad, but it's just whether the squad performs and wins games, which is the most important thing that Forest needs. Right, that does us nicely. 40 minutes for a bit of a shorter episode. Dom, thanks so much for coming on from the Over the Trent podcast. Forest fans, give it a listen. Another good podcast that should be in the ears of many Forest fans and keeps you up to date. George, thanks as well. I appreciate it as always. That will do us nicely. We will be back, hopefully, if we're back in an hour, giving a point deduction. If we're back in three hours, we just don't know. But there will be another stream today if Forest are points deducted. If they're not, we will see you whenever it happens and in the next few days for some other content. But brilliant rest of your Monday. Happy points deduction. Have a great rest of your day. Cheers.