Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Garabaldi Red, a Nottingham Forest podcast. We are live across YouTube, Garabaldi Red, and Facebook, Nottingham Forest News. I'm Max Hayes, your host, and joined by Dave Asprey and Max Scott, both legends, both returning to the podcast this afternoon to talk about what is a huge game for Forest tomorrow against Luton. A must win, a cup final as people are talking about. It really, really could define Forest's season. Max, Dave, I was about to say morning, afternoon to you both on this Friday. I suppose it's nice, actually, Dave, isn't it? That Max is joining us for Friday brunches. Hopefully, he can find a special recipe out of his cookbook.

I think he might be a bit more modern in the kitchen than I am. That's what I'm saying. You know what I mean?

When I'm saying that, boys, actually, I've just wolfed down a a microwave macaroni and cheese and about four slices of fresh bread. So I'm carved up, ready to go.

Carbed up, ready to go for Garibaldi read.

That's an interesting food diary there, isn't it? Yeah, I just needed something.

Brilliant. You've got to feel yourself up talking about Forest at the moment for sure. We're live on Facebook and YouTube, Nottingham Forest News, Garaboldy Red. So if you do want to get your comments in about tomorrow's game, then we will put them, of course, to us and we will discuss them throughout. Right, Dave, let's start with you. We talked on Monday, which feels like an eternity ago, really, now, just about post-Brighton and the disappointment that we found ourselves in the back of more controversy. But really now this week has been even bigger, given the possible point seduction hearing as well that will come out most likely next week. But in terms of tomorrow's game, I think this is the biggest game since Wembley, would you agree, Dave?

Absolutely. I was very privileged to be invited onto a Luton Town podcast last night, In the Town. And I said Looking at both sides of the coin, it's the biggest game since we played Huddersfield town at Wembley in the playoff final. And it's the biggest game for Luton town since they played Coventry City at Wembley in the playoff final, which then led me to summarize that this tomorrow is as near to a playoff game in the Premier League as you will get. It's huge. It's massive. I've read a couple of prediction sites this morning. Most people are hedging their bets and sitting on the fence. Chris Sutton has gone 2-2. There's another one that said 1-1 or whatever. I don't expect a great game. I expect a game where in the end, the concept of making sure we don't lose overrides the concept of... If one of the teams is brave enough to go for it, then they'll earn the victory. But it is a colossal game for both of them. It's psychologically fascinating because neither of them are in great shape. I thought we were pretty poor at writing, but it's one of the most the pointy days I've had traveling with Nottingham Forest for a long time.

Personally speaking, it was a tough game, and then Forest added more woe onto it. Luton saw a slight glimpse of a promised land for 45 minutes and then had it brutally taken away from him. How Rob Edwards rebuild spirit and confidence and motivation in Luton town over a short turnaround time of certainly 2 hours could be defining tomorrow. So neither of them are in great form. Neither of them are blessed with great confidence and belief at the moment. The one thing I will guarantee you is it'll be a cauldron of an atmosphere due to the Lutentown fans. They'll make it really, really difficult. Forest are going to have to withstand an oral barrage from the stands, so it's going to be really difficult. Whoever is the most mentally together team on the day will win it. But I expect a very tight, very cagey game where, do you stick or do you twist? I don't expect to class it.

No, I don't think it will be easy either. Such a big game. Lots of comments coming in to us. Mark says, afternoon. Michael says, proper six points of this. So come on, you reds. Kemp, afternoon all, you reds. Very nervous for tomorrow. As we all are. Max, how do you... It's been a while actually since we've talked Forest. How do you really see the Forest situation at the moment? I feel like at the moment off the pitch, there's so much going on that it almost... I think it's distracting for the players on the pitch, even though they are professionals. It just seems like there's rumors today that this points deduction is going to come out. There's rumors of all sorts of stuff, and it just doesn't help the club at the moment, given the desperation for points, really.

No, it doesn't. I think there's been lots of things. Forest have been the victim of what seems like an inordinate amount amount of really poor refereeing decisions. There's no doubt about that. Obviously, it's easy to say that as a Forest fan, but colleagues I work with, every time I go into the office, I think, Max, what do you think of that? I mean, that was a shocker. There's that to contend with. For me personally, I've said this publicly, I think the appointment of Mark Clattenberg is really confusing. I think it's quite embarrassing. I think that it draws attention to the club. That's not good attention. Absolutely. So things like that, yes, they do distract the players regardless of how professional they are. And the thing that concerns me about the Luton game is Luton remind me of Forest last season. First season back in the Premier League for a long time, or back in the top flight for a long time. A fantastic old classic stadium with incredible home support. I think Forest Homeformed last season is probably a little bit better than Luton's, but nonetheless, you've got to credit Luton and Rob Edwards for what they've managed to do.

They've gone through the mill with what's happened with Tom Lockier. Although they're our relegation rivals, I can't help but feel a great deal of admiration for Luton. But it worries me that they remind me of us last season because we had that momentum and we had that strength of feeling at the club through what Steve Cooper had done. Now, I'll make it clear, I don't think that Nuno should be sacked. I think that that's ridiculous, some of the tweets that I've seen. I didn't think we should have sacked Cooper at the time. But parking all that, I think we have to acknowledge that as a club, We have gone for a massive transitional period this season. Call it the soul of the club, the feeling, the emotion. Some people don't like talking about it, but I think it really matters to what happens on the pitch. We Since Steve Cooper's departure, whilst Nuno has come in and we're really wanting to do well and we're behind him, we have lost something, I think, and we're trying to rebuild. And all of these things around Mark Clattenberg coming in to try and build relationships with the PGMOL.

All of that just leads to quite, I think, a difficult feeling at the club. So that makes tomorrow, I think, even more interesting. I would say on paper, Forest Forest should win the game. I know we're in similar league positions. Actually, I think I slightly disagree with Dave about it being a cagey affair. The thing about Luton and Forest, particularly Forest Under Nuno, is we score quite a lot of goals, and particularly Luton. And so I've got a feeling that it could be a bit of a classic tomorrow in terms of goals. And I'd love to see Taewo and Alanga back in the fold because I think they're incredibly dangerous.

Yeah. Do you agree there, Dave? Do you think that Then tomorrow, in terms of players like... Like Max says, you look at the squad on paper, and it's a squad, no disrespect to Luton, that should be beating Luton. But then almost all of this hype and build up around the game might work against Forest. It might work in Luton's favor as them being the underdogs, them being a stimulator for Forest last season. It's not going to be an easy game at all tomorrow at Kennewath Road.

No, it's going to be incredibly difficult. Lutentown will probably always be perceived as underdogs because we've won two European Cups, we've won League titles, we've won League Cups, we have a bigger ground and all this stuff. It's like we're seeing us received as one of the grand old football clubs of English football. Lutentown are an excellent club, brilliantly run, especially by Gary Sweet. I agree with everything that Max has said. I find the Clattenberg appointment just an irrelevance, an utter irrelevance. What can he do? I'm old school, as you can probably tell from my gray hair and the double chins and the wrinkles. A referee is right even when he's wrong. I have never, ever had a go at a referee. When Max is right about the soul of the club, I believe that certain decisions and certain facets of our club at the moment bring bad karma on us. When the decisions go against you, shut your mouth, get behind that dressing room door and say, Right, let's have some siege mentality. My owner chasing a referee down a tunnel, I think, is unbelievably undignified and not a good look at all. I want the moral high ground.

Luton town, Luton town. I've gone and got the moral high ground from the moment everybody thought that they would lose every game, and Garth Crooks and people like that who really should know better, and people on talk sport, just by mocking them. If Robert was his savvy and modern and intelligent and highly articulate. He'll take that stuff and he'll use it as a motivational to them. I agree with everything Max says. I nod profusely when he talks because what comes out of his mouth correlates with what is in my head. And this game, a key point is what he says. I talked last night on the Luton town podcast, and the excellent people that run this podcast. I said it's first season syndrome against second season syndrome. Luton town resemble us of last year for all the reasons that Max has pointed out. I worry about us sometimes that we resemble Leeds United of last season. I really do. And if you want to talk about the soul of the club, anybody walking out of the Amex on Sunday afternoon, that away support, it was really lifeless at the Amex. It was about 20 minutes of Mull of Kintyre, and 'Your ground's too big for you and all this stuff and trouble in the library.

And then it just fizzled out. And most people... I heard people, even with my one good ear, I heard people as we walked out the Amex going, 'Play like that, we'll get buried at Luton. ' I think the key factors tomorrow are all on Luton. How do Luton psychologically handle the unbelievable gut punch that they got on Wednesday night? To have it teased at you then have it dragged away. We might end up in the fullness of time thanking Bournemouth for what they did the other night. At halftime, I was like, We're down and we'll get buried on Saturday. That's how I felt at halftime. And whatever I'm doing here, Iola said at halftime, we are supporters for Nottingham Forest. I know people say we don't want to be... I'd like this to get to the point where we don't have to consider what other teams are doing, but we aren't good enough to be... We haven't earned that right yet. So I looked at it and I thought, Thank you. I had Bournemouth fans sending me a, 'you're welcome' text and things like that, because I know a lot of people in Bournemouth. But I think the key thing is how Rob Edwards rebuilds those lads because they looked utterly devastated at the end of that game.

And Rob Edwards for the first time this season, looked like he was finding it difficult to front up. He's always fronted up, from Wembley with Tom Lockier to Bournemouth with Tom Lockier, and all points between. Rob Edwards has come out, spoken beautifully. But Wednesday night, he looked a devastated man, and he's teemed it. That's one thing. The other, the key player tomorrow, if he plays is Ross Barkley. He can run a game. Who for us runs a game? Does Yatesy do it? Not really. Does Nico Dominguez do it? No, not really. Morgan. It might come down to Morgan doing to Ross Barkley what he did at St. James's Park to Bruno Guimaraes and what he did at the city ground against Bruno Fernandez. We need Morgan tomorrow to be our talisman and offset Ross Barkley. But The thing is, I'm thinking it's gaugey. Max thinks it'll be a goal fest. The truth of the matter is, neither of us really know. And that is the great beauty of football. Do you know what I mean? Lutentown didn't know. They thought they were home and dry Wednesday night. And then 45 minutes later, the beauty or the ugliness of football took it away from them.

So it's a fascinating prospect. We're having an FA Cup quarter-finals shoved down our throats. This game is a twelve-pointer, and it's a far bigger game than any of the FA Cup. It should be the main game on all the channels this weekend, this game.

Yeah, it should be. I completely agree there, Dave. We've always liked Bournemouth, haven't we? No.

Well, I'm going to jump in here because, weirdly enough, my initial connection with Dave is Bournemouth. We both.

Yeah, it is.

My colleague, Dave managed my ex-colleague Ross, who's an absolute brilliant bloke. But I lived in Bournemouth for eight, nine years And I loved everything about it, apart from the fact that they were painstakingly always more successful than Forest. And I hated it. And every time we played, we never won. And then at the end of that championship season when we didn't get the penalty, refs are a bit of a theme here, aren't they? It was so sickening. And then my ex-students were on the pitch flagging me off. And I hated it. So when we were three nil down, I was in the pub with my dad watching Champions League football. He was down in London to come visit, and I just was incensed. I thought, 'Bom, have you never do anything for us? ' And then lo and behold. So maybe that's this... Dave and I often talk about the magic and the romance and the softer, more subjective side of football, maybe that's the moment our seasons change. We've more than likely got points of deduction to come. I don't have any information on that. I'm not saying I do, but if precedence is anything to go by, we will.

But maybe that's the moment. At halftime, we were third bottom, and by full-time, we were given the opportunity to go six points clear. Yeah. Which could be... Lots of the reports have been mooted that it could be six points, or it could be between one and 10, I guess. And that's a game changer. And if we beat Luton and we do it convincingly, the momentum is shifted in our way. I almost hate to do it because like I say, there's so much about Luton to respect and admire. But if we can shove them faces in the dirt a little bit and say, If we were to stay down there, then it could be a massive game changer. Look, there's so many clichés that we can reel out and all the backpages or print those. I don't really want to parrot them off, but it truly is massive.

And the onus, Max, everything you say is right, mate. The onus is home advantage. Make the most of it. The thing is, there There were some little blueprints there. They lost at home to Burnley. And crucially, the one game this season where everybody predicted them to win was when Sheffield United rocked up and Sheffield United won three-one. So I I think people have seen that Burnley result when Burnley won 2-1 there and Blades went in there 3-1, where Blades were by far the better team. Blades have had some proper thumpings this year and look, similarly with Burnley. I think this I think next time, I think if Luton had beaten Sheffield United, come to play, then I think Forrest would be written off this week. But people would begin to think, 'We can't totally neglect Forrest in this game. ' The thing is, if the Forest that played Liverpool turns up, Forest can win. But if the Forest that went to Brighton, I thought, 'Let me down far more than the team did say at Fulham. ' For everybody, Fulham wasn't an idea. Fulham was the lowest point, and Fulham was awful. What angered me, actually, and led me to feel really, really gloom about Forest was all the stuff that was talked about at the end of the Liverpool game around the referee and all this stuff.

I thought it would make us the angriest team in Britain. All the hot air that followed it gave the impression that Nottingham Forest were like, Right, we close ranks We took the same as Cluffy did in the old days. We close ranks, we build a suit of armor, we smashed through whatever is in front of us. And we take it on Brighton O'Valby next week. Who, by the way, I've just had a right good drumming in Europe. I'll take it there. And it was nothing of the sort. It was passive. I'll tell you something. We're all in the away end of Amex and the subs were warming up and everybody was looking at the subs and nobody was looking at the 11 that was going to start the match because on the bench, Callum, Taewo, Anthony, Willy, it was a bench, you think. Everybody's going, mind me, we must be great. Look at this, Ibrahim Sengari, who must eventually burst out of his chrysalis. You looked at the bench and you thought, We must be a good side if that's our bench. But then the other side of that coin was people are going, I can't believe he hasn't picked Callum and Anthony.

The first time for a long, long time, lads, and you'll have to forgive me for being so gloomy, it was the first time I went a long way with Forrest and felt, what was the point of that? Given everything that was going on in the background of my life that day, I wanted some sustenance, I wanted some uplift, and I got numb. And I think the Forest fans just trooped in, sang for a bit, trooped back out. And me and Max, we talked, didn't we, about the rapport and the relationship between Nuno and the crowd. Now, Steve was a tactile man, a social animal, a social boy. He cultivated it. Nuno is not like that. Nuno is more reserved, I think. But if Nuno is going to cultivate a bridge between the stands and the pitch, he's got to start delivering results. And he basically sent the jury back out on him last week by what he did or what was done at the Amex. And I came away from that game. I wasn't angry after full. We were just being by the better side of the night. And once two or three go in, try as much as you like.

I've been in that situation where the more you try, the worse it gets, right? But Brighton left me angry. I thought, where is the response to Liverpool? We've had all this Clattenberg nonsense all week, and what have you, Tierney, and what have you. It's all well and good. You can't change it now. Go and do something at Brighton. And they did nothing of the sort. I basically sat in the Amex, and I don't think I got... The Amex has got paddied seats for those who've not been there. I think it's the first time in an away end Where a lot of people were sitting down. It was distinctly average.

What I don't understand is this we need to get behind Nuno. I see it all the time as if we need a song for him. Obviously, we're all behind Nuno because we're all behind Forest and he's our manager. We need to see something on the pitch. Like you say, football fans and Forest fans in particular, we respond to what we see on the pitch because we've grown up in a club with a rich history of what it means to play bloody good football, exciting football. And that's why the city ground became so famous when we were in the Championship last season, because we saw something on the pitch that reflected our passion, and we had a manager that reflected our passion and represented us and our values and the best of Nottingham Forest, the best of the city. And I'm not saying Nuno doesn't... I'm not overly critical, but let's start with it on the pitch, Nuno. And starting Chris Wood after a long layout and not playing Anthony Langer, who's arguably been our most influential player in terms of stats. You make your bed, you lie in it. I'm behind Nuno. We're all behind Nuno, but come on, let's make a song for him as if that's going to get us three points.

Do us a favor. He needs to set the team up right. He needs to pick a team that's consistent and then play people in the right position. That's what I want to see.

Do you know what, Max? I heard it said in the away in last week, I had one bloke a couple of rows behind and said quite loudly, Well, if this was Cooper, he'd be getting hammered for this. And there have been occasions since that happy Christmas that we had with Newcastle and Manchester United, where it's like, this is very Cooper-esque.

Do you think that the patience might run out quickly more with Nuno? I'm I'm not saying that if we lose tomorrow, it's going to get that. But do you think if we lose tomorrow, the pressure, the pressure, counts on him and the fans won't have the backing of him because he hasn't been a fan's favorite. And that also leads me on to my next point, Dave. If I watch Nuno's press conferences and I observe him when he's on the sidelines at Forest, and I just wonder whether we need a bit more energy from him and a bit more passion. And maybe that's what we were lucky to have with Steve and that connection. Whereas potentially with Nuno, no disrespect to him, but maybe his mood is bringing down the football club a little bit at the minute. I saw that on Twitter and it's a very interesting point.

He's more tacit than Steve, Max. I've said on several podcasts, I find utterly fascinating the contrast between Steve writing a four-sided essay of program notes and Nuno gives you two sentences. Thank you for your support. We must improve. At his press conferences, I find uncomfortable. Not because of Nuno. There's this barely concealed content, this like, Oh, they get... To be fair, most of the questions that are asked in Nuno's press conferences are And I'll be on belief. Asking him things that are so obvious, why do people ask a question when they already know the answer? Apart from who's injured this week, No, no, or who isn't, the rest of the questions are, Are you hoping that you can win at Luton. Yes, what are we even here for? So I can understand his frustration with that. But I'll tell you, because Nottingham Forest fans will only see the size of our ground and the size of Kennewath Road and what we've achieved in history and what Luton town have achieved in history. They'll see, if we lose tomorrow, he's going to have a welter burden of pressure on him, I think.

But then what? I agree with you. He's going to have pressure. But if that pressure leads to his job being at risk. And I think that says everything about what's going wrong behind the scenes at Forest. If anybody at the club seriously thinks that sacking him, regardless of the fact we're still only three points above relegation, regardless of that, if anybody thinks that that is seriously the appropriate thing to do, then I worry about the future. It feels like it's a bit of a house of card situation. And I I hate to feel so bleak about things. And I promise I am hopeful still and desperately deep in my bloody loins want us to win. But it feels so hard to conjure that hope when all of this stuff outside is a massive distraction. Back to your question, Max, when it comes to Nuno, we can't ask him to be like Steve Cooper. He is the man he is. He speaks in a certain way. He is his own man, his own character. We've got to respect that. Going back to my point, I absolutely am behind him. But as Dave says, and as you've suggested, Max, patience will run thin.

I just hope that that doesn't lead to some ridiculous snap decision to get Gary Megson back in for the last 10 games.

The thing is, Max, would anybody care to look at the Olympiarchos model of doing things?

Because I Well, I mean, no one wants to mention it, Dave, because it feels like a cardinal sin to suggest that there's anything wrong with the way that things are being run. I think for anyone that's willing to be open enough can say, yes, there has been an incredible, generous investment in the club in buying players, and that's fantastic. However, it's also put us in breach of PSR rules, and it's also led to a lot of unrest. And a lot of people all of a sudden looking at Forrest and thinking, That's a bit embarrassing, that. Mark Clattenberg is a referee analyst. What, the man that wrote a book slagging off his colleagues at the PGMOL? We're going to get him in?

Gladiators. I mean, gladiators, for God's sake, why can't we have some intellect and some decent I mean, gladiators. The man, it's ridiculous. I'm watching him one week telling some oversize blokeed it, another bloke with a cotton wool bud. And then he's in our club. And the thing is, my granddad was a hell of a football man, a cracking player. My dad was a scout with Forest under Allen Hill, the great Allen Hill, so long, right? And they always said to me, Son, when it's given, it's done. The AR might have changed that a little bit, but once it's done, it's done.

But do you not think Dave But do not think with the Clattenburg appointment, and we will move on in a minute because we're off on a bit of a tangent, but do you not think with the Clattenberg appointment, and hear me out, Max, that maybe it is sometimes times a potentially good move, because if Forest needs to put someone in front of the press, a bit like they did after the Liverpool decision, then they can do, and they can put someone in front of them, almost that then doesn't get the players. Morgan Gibbs-White heavily criticized the referee on Saturday. Borderline, he'll most likely get a fine for what he said. But if you can put Clattenberg in front of the players, in front of the management as a club representative, to almost echo what the club's feeling.

It smacks of entitlement. That's what he said.

What I really didn't like, I thought that entire debacle at the end of the game, Tierney was wrong, but the whole thing about going on the pitch, berating it on the side of the pitch, putting pressure on berating a referee, whatever extent it was, I don't think that's befitting of the owner of a club so rich in history as Nottingham Forest. So when Mark Clattenberg comes out in front of the press and comes dangerously close to just Justifying that behavior. Remember, we live in an era where referee abuse, particularly grassroots level, is an all time high. It's disgraceful. And when someone comes out representing Nottingham Forest and almost comes a word away from justifying that? He said, and it's not verbatim, well, the owner is very angry. He's invested a lot of money in the club and he wants to see a return on it. That is so close to justifying that Paul Tierney's punishment is the shame he should feel for getting the laws wrong. Paul Tierney's punishment is that he didn't referee the game at the weekend, and let's hope that he improves, but he's made a mistake. That is not what I want to see from my football club, which I've followed since a boy, I've spent thousands of pounds on.

And like all of us, I'm not saying I'm alone on that, like all of us, I don't want to see that. And so I do think it's a bad look. I don't understand the I'm thinking behind it. And I think it's antagonistic to get someone in to say that we're going to scrutinize your work. Let's be real. What material impact is that going to have on the pitch for Forest? Having Mark Clattenberg getting paid either much, sat in the director's box, chewing Marenackus' ear off when he doesn't like the decision. What's that actually going to do on the pitch? Nothing. What's going to change? What happens on the pitch is the manager and the players booking a ride days up. Not Mark Clattenberg sat on the throne at Forest and speaking to reporters. I'm sorry.

Let's move on, Dave. Hang on. Let me just come back on that. The influence it has on the pitch is it makes other teams want to beat us. It's a motivational tool for other teams. Rob Edwards might say, Have you seen this lot whingeing about a referee? They can't take it, lads. Get stuck in at it. Before we move on, Max, I go back to the 1980s and our team in the 1980s, and a certain man went, We don't have trouble with referees. We try to entertain. And you never know, John, you and your lot might think we're a good site. Forest in those days, the referees' favorite team, because our greatest, the greatest of all time, said, A yellow card and a red card is a dereliction of duty, and it's a help given to the opposition. If you get a red or yellow card, you have to face me when you come back in the changing room. And the Gary Crosby's and the Nigel Cliffs and the Neil Webb's and the Terry Wilson's and the Dez's and the Pierce's and that, barely got a yellow or a red card because the great man set the standard.

And unfortunately, because I come from that era, I I want the same thing now. I agree with Max in every respect.

Okay, breathe. Let's move on from.

Shows how much it means, though, doesn't it? Yeah, I see your point. That's, I think, the thing.

I see your point. I will finally add, and I think that if this was an appointment from... If Liverpool or Man, you had done it, I think the media narrative would have been incredibly different, are we, around Forest? But I can see both to it. Right, moving on to the game tomorrow. We cry out, don't we, Dave, for passion constantly from the players, but really tomorrow it has to be blood, sweat, and tears on the line. Almost the game should be motivating itself for the players. They shouldn't need any extra motivation tomorrow. I think the small number of fans traveling down, because it is no disrespect, but a very small away allocation tomorrow. I haven't got a ticket. I'll be watching it on the TV, though, for sure. But, Dave, you'll be there, and you just hope that the players really do leave everything on the line for the fans that are there and for the fans that all the Forest fan base that will be watching at home hoping because it's the biggest game of the season.

Absolutely. I mean, I'd be saying to them, if I was in that dressing room and said, 'Thanks for nothing at Fulham. Thanks for nothing at Brighton. ' They've been some good ones away from home. They've been some good performances. I mean, against Liverpool, we played some really good football against Liverpool. But with the Liverpool game, it was like, 'We're 17th because we play well and find a way to get beat. Liverpool is top because he played below par and we found a way to win. I'll take 10 horrible performances that gather us some points from these last games. But if they go there tomorrow and they play like it's just another game, it's going to say to me, Where's the perspective in this club? It's colossal. I saw it reported. I read an article. I read, I don't know. There's like a look forward to the weekend of the Premier League. And the person writing the article said, Defeat for either tomorrow is within the context of football and league standards. Not life, but just in that little bubble of football, it's a disaster. We come out the Kenny tomorrow and we've been beat, we're looking down the gun barrel.

If Luton come out tomorrow and they've been beat, they're in real trouble. Whoever loses tomorrow is on a slippery surface. And that's where I see where Max is coming from. And I'd love a game like that. As a football spectacle, I think that maybe it'll go the other way. I I wanted Brighton to mean something in the context of Liverpool, and it was treated like there was no follow on from Liverpool in that game at all. I was deeply bitterly disappointed. So maybe they'll do a Forest and just when you think you've got them pegged and this is the trend, this is the theme, they'll go do something different, but they're going to have to play really, really well. What is possibly in Forest's favor, and I know I got this from the lovely guys at Luton last night, was that they have a serious injury problem So again, another parallel for Luton with us last season. And I think a key loss for them is at Adibio because we are pathetic in dealing with set pieces. Truly pathetic. Everton are in trouble. Everton are like Dynamite from corners. And so if Luke were thinking, Well, the big lads in the box will stick it to the forward.

I mean, Carl Morris is going to be handful tomorrow. Willy has to come in tomorrow. Willy has to be back tomorrow. I love Andy on the Obama Daily. He's a cracking prospect. Andy, in fullness of time is going to be a lovely, elegant defender. He's got a touch of class about him. I love Andy, but Willy has to play tomorrow for me.

I couldn't agree more. Carl Morris is an absolute menace. He looks... He's like... He reminds me of Ryan Yates up if he was a striker. He's so difficult to play against, and his holder plays fantastic. And whilst Marillo is built like a fridge and runs like a ballerina, I think he needs some support. And Willy Bolley, for me, I don't think I've ever seen him miss a header. And it is beyond me why. As Forrest have been statistically the worst at set pieces, why Willy Bolley has not been straight back in his side? I think he was injured when he came back from AFCON, fair enough. But for me, he needs to go straight in there because every time I've seen him play, look, he's just looked absolutely solid. I'd love to see him at the back.

Do you think, Max, tomorrow is a case of playing leaders, playing players that will fight for Forest. You mentioned it earlier about Chris Wood versus Tywo, given that both are okay. Nuno hasn't done his press conference yet, by the way. I will reiterate this as we're live and recording. He hasn't done it, so things could change by five o'clock this evening. But given that Tywo and Chris Wood are both fully available, you'd be surely going for Tywo out of Chris Wood. But then saying that Chris Wood has almost become a little bit of a fan's and maybe he's the player to play tomorrow, holds the ball up against someone that you can have as a target man up there.

No, I'm playing Tywo every day of the week. You know, nothing. Taewo, Andy's got God on his side, hasn't he?

Do you think he's been a little bit lackluster, though, recently?

I think- Yeah, look, I do. And I think we saw it before. He clearly takes a bit of time, I think, to get going. And I think he's a rhythm player. And we've seen from both those big injuries he's had, it's taken a long time almost to dust himself off, dust the cobwebs off. But I just think he's rapid, he's strong, and yes, sometimes he'll shin one, but I think he's the most clinical player. He's per 90 minutes or whatever that statistic is. He scores the most goals per minute in the Premier League. I mean, Crikey Moses. We If we got him in a six-pointer, put him on. I'm not going to argue with someone that thinks, Absolutely not, each to their own, but I'd be playing Tywo every single day of the week against Luton.

Do you agree, Dave? You think that You think that Tyro should start tomorrow?

Yeah. I want my front four tomorrow to be Tywo, Anthony Callum, and Morgan. That's what I want. I think Woody's smashing. The thing with Woody is your service has got to be more precise. Like last week, when he holds up well, he had the one chance, the one real good chance that we had in the game. I was a bit surprised that he wasn't eased more back, he eased into the side more. But I'm playing Tywo, Callum, Anthony, and Morgan tomorrow. And there has to be a sense of... You play your best 11. Everybody last week was feeling that he hasn't picked his best 11. We all have our different perceptions. Some people think we shouldn't accept decisions. Some people think we should, and all this stuff. Everybody's got a view. That's great. It's about diversity. But I want that from for there tomorrow. To not pick Elanger and Calla Mutson-Adoy, who did give Liverpool problems last week. I came out of that game for Liverpool. And in fact, we said last week, you asked me, Max, before Brighton, I said, play the same 11. Chuck the same 11. So you He did really well against the lead leaders who are...

If they're above Manchester City, you have to maybe say, Well, maybe they're the best team in the world at the moment, because Manchester City had won everything. Say, You've done me a good job. Go and do it again. I have faith in you. But I sometimes think managers have to justify their own existence. Like, oh, look, everybody. It's like this, everybody goes bonkers about substitutions. You know what I mean? It's like a ridiculous bit. Because for me- Yeah, tie away from me tomorrow.

Because for me, Max, start the team that played against Liverpool and put the bodies on the line, bar maybe Willy Bolley. I can completely understand your point. And then we touch on leaders, we touch on set pieces, things like that. Start the team that played against Liverpool that put the bodies on the line that fought. And I didn't see any lack of passion there or desire. I saw a few silly errors, which we've talked about all the time, and a poor refereeing decision. For me, go to Luton with that team that played against Liverpool that will fight, that will lead absolutely everything on the pitch at dinner with road. Because if Forrest come away tomorrow with a loss, as Dave says, we're looking at a complete meltdown.

I don't think there's many Forrest fans that disagree with Dave's front four. And for me, it's Yates and Dominguez behind. They just love it. Don't bring Sangari then, Max. Sorry?

Not to bring Sangari in them back into the 11.

I'm sorry, no. I mean, I don't want to... I mean, Sangari feels like the perfect representation of Forest season. Lots of promise, but flat. And I'm just not convinced he cares. And that's a really speculative thing to say. But just from the way that he's played and his body language on the pitch, he doesn't see him as bothered as someone like Dominguez, who, born in Argentina, raised in Nottingham, vibes. He's absolutely at it. And I know he's not been at his best, but in a game like tomorrow, where it's a bit of a dogfight, him and Yatesy, I think of the people in our team, I couldn't think of anybody better, a better pairing, to be there in the middle. I could understand if he played Sengare, Afcon winner, played in the Champions League, highly rated, clearly very capable. So I could understand it. But for me, who do I want representing me as a fan on the pitch? It's Ryan Yates and Dominguez in that two behind Morgan Gibbs-White, because I think that they've got that aggression, and that's what we need.

I agree there.

Men for the Trench is tomorrow.

Dave, got to finally ask it before we wrap up. How do you see tomorrow going?

Nil-nil.

Do you think?

Yeah. Yeah, nil-nil. Just think there's so much on it, the weight of what's on it might just press down on both teams. And I do think that neither of them are in great shape, Brilliant.

I just don't think, Dave, I see what you're saying about the pressure. I just don't think either side is good enough to not make a game-changing It's a mistake.

Yeah, that's true.

I agree with that. I'm going to say Forest 2:1. And I'm saying that because I believe we've got a better side on paper. Positivity. Yeah. And look, for all of the criticism that I've got about things off the pitch, for all of the concerns I've got around that, Forest deserve something to go their way. All of that aside, we've been on the receiving end of some absolutely woeful refereeing decisions that have changed games. And it'd be fascinating to stick it into an AI simulating computer to see where we'd be or where we could be in the different permutations of where we could be if it wasn't those things. And I think it's about time that something went our way, our luck turned, and we got three points scraped to scrappy goal or bing, bang, bong, deflections into the bottom corner. So I really just feel it's about bloody time things change for us. So I'm going forest 2-1, and I'm going to stick my neck on the line. I'm going to say, Harry Toffalo is going to score a 25-yard streamer because I think he's an absolute top bloke, and he's got a good left-to-event, hasn't he?

Yeah, cracking lad. In fact, I think him and Nico have been really good. Yeah, they did. He's brilliant. Toffalo, I mean, if you think he was the main weight in the O'Brien deal and nobody paid very much attention to Harry, and then he dealt with his personal demons in a brilliant way, and now he's helping other people. Karma is paying him back, and I can't believe. Actually, mate, what you say about we have had some horrendous decisions. They're awful decisions. Nobody's arguing about that. What I'm saying is you just can't do anything about it once it's done, but you keep plugging away. And the better you are, the luckier you get. And like you say, Matt, I would love tomorrow for a ball to go into Luton's box with us. And somebody, a Luton lad tries to clear it, it hits, I don't know, somebody's backside and flies in the back of the net. And we do on the balance of fate and all that stuff, we do deserve something to go our way, mate. So we'll see what goes on.

We do, but it is Nottingham Forest. That's what I'll say. But you never know. You never know. Positivity. I'm going to read one last comment now. Mauricio says, This will be our Champions League final. Completely agree. Such a huge game tomorrow. And I just hope I'm not spending the weekend planning the podcast on Monday, giving another core refere indecision and referees dominating the conversation. I don't want to speak about referees for ages.

I'm so nervous. I wasn't nervous before this conversation, and now I've got all wrapped up. Honestly, I feel like it's about to kick off. Honestly, I'm really nervous, but I also feel enthused, and I think we're going to win 2-1. Come on.

You never know.

I'm kicking off at half four. I've actually got a match this afternoon. Two days short of my 60th birthday, I'm knocking a ball about this afternoon. We are twice European champions. We've scaled great heights before.

Why not? And also it is what it is at the end of the day, to use iconic Billy Davis' phrase, and we'll still support the team no matter what, given the result on Saturday. We will be live tomorrow reflecting. I will be live reflecting on the game with a few special guests, so do tune in tomorrow evening for that. Right, I think that does us nicely. I'm worn out. I'm not going to have to go and lie down in a dark room again. I've said it on Monday, but I was going to go to the gym, but maybe it's time to go to to go back to bed. Student living, eh? Dave, thank you for today. I hope you're not too maxed out. That's like a Lineker-esque pun to finish this. Sorry, I had to do that. Max, thank you. I hope Dave didn't-Cheer, mate. Dave didn't.

I love it.

He's good, isn't he? He is good. Bless him. We love you, Dave. So are you, lads? Yeah, it's been a good conversation. Thanks for all your comments. As always, we will see you tomorrow, like I say, and then Monday for our main episode. For the fans, go in tomorrow. Sing your heart out. Enjoy it. Fingers crossed the forest. Come on, you reds. Forest till we die. And please, just a bit of look on our side. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye.