Hello.

Everybody. Gary Boyer-Redd, Nottingham Forest, suffered their first home defeat of the season as they lost three to Brighton on Saturday, making it 13 points from 13 games with more avoidable goals conceded in the game, featuring two penalties and a red card. We'll discuss all the drama at the City Ground in the company of, first of all, Reds legend, Gary Bertles. Gary, good morning. How are you?

Good morning. Very good. Thank you.

Good to have you with us. Second guest is Greg Mitchell. Greg, how are you doing?

I thought I was feeling a bit negative, but I'm looking at the comments and I realize I'm still a hell of a lot more positive than many of the others. So we'll see how this goes today.

I haven't read the comments yet. There's 20 to get to, but I'll flick through them while you guys are talking. And finally with us is Mikey Clark. Mikey, good morning. How are you doing?

Morning. Yeah, not too bad for Monday morning. This is the first time I'm using my new computer so I can actually see the comments now and there's some interesting stuff on there. So it should be a good episode.

I'll flick through the comments while you give us some general thoughts on the game, Mikey, to kick us off. What did you make of it?

Frustrating, wasn't it? We did the preview show on Thursday and we talked about how... Well, I talked about how I thought it was going to be tactically quite intriguing because my mind was set back to last season and the amount that was on that game last season and the way we set up and the way we let them have the ball and broke. But for me, that game on Saturday was I wasn't really expecting that. I thought we started really well, obviously won the loop after two minutes. And then I don't know what happened for the next 60 minutes. We seemed ineffective. Our inability to keep the ball was something I've not really seen all season. And I think we deserved we went into one down. So I'm expecting a chess match, an intriguing tactical battle. But the second off was just like a basketball game. It was end-to-end. There was sendings off. There was two penalties, ten minutes injury time. It was just not what I was expecting at all, but I left the ground feeling quite deflated. I think I'm sure we'll get into the weeds of it and it's right that we face into it.

But I think, youknow, we're letting in too many soft goals. The Ferguson goal was a great finish, but there's questions around whether it should have been closed down. But this is the fourth or fifth game in the last month where we're just letting cross after cross and goal after goal and teams aren't having to work especially hard to score against us. So you score two goals at home, you expect something from the game and yet again, we've got nothing. Now that's one-win-nine now and it is a little bit concerning. And I'd just say one more thing, I watched Everton yesterday, and what do they do? They get it wide. They get Decory and Calvin in the box and put cross after crossing, which frightens the life out of me because we seem like we don't know how to defend them. So let's get into some of the specifics Matt, but I was shocked at what I saw on some occasions, but I just felt really deflated after the game.

Did it feel like a missed opportunity, Greg? Because obviously we take the lead, but also Brighton go into the game with injuries and lose more players with injuries and it's them celebrating the win massively at the end, which I had no problem with, but I know people did. But does it feel like a mischance for you?

Yeah, I had a big problem with Deserby, but we'll get back to that. It was a massively mischance just because we've got bad injuries. We're top of that; we're top of the injury charts list again, but also Brighton did. They also managed to bring back the Barcelona player. So you've got to appreciate how good a team they are. I'm not giving excuses for how we've lost, but you look at how they've done this year, Brighton. They've been involved in the most goals per game out of any team this league. We knew there was going to be goals. It was just if we could keep it tight enough at the back. At the end of the day, their first goal was a really good goal. There were some mistakes for the others, but yeah, it was a massive missed opportunity, especially with those 20 minutes at the end. I thought they'd give more injury time. I thought the officials were absolutely useless. I thought Deserby shouldn't have even been on the pitch for the way he was acting for the majority of the game. I'm stood right down that line, so I could see how he was acting and peculant at best, driving us insane.

I don't know, I just think we've done so well. This run we've had where we've only lost two in whatever it was, 20 games at home. That shouldn't be forgotten in our first season of the Premier League and into the second season, but we are going to lose games. We've got to just show you that fight, which we did at the end. We were shattered. We were absolutely on our knees at the end, and we could have got the draw and this whole conversation is completely different. But for me, whatever happens Saturday has a bigger effect on how I feel really about this previous game we've just had as well, because that is just huge now.

I suppose, Gary, the frustration for me is that in the last five games, we've conceded 11 goals, and I would say we've had a big hand in, arguably, 11 of them, but at least eight of them. And that's a problem for a football team, isn't it?

Well, you go back to last season, Fulham-Bournemouth 3-2, 3-2. You go back to the start of the season, Manchester United 3-2, West Ham, 3-2. We're losing all those close games. We're not getting anything out of those close games. Like you said, you've already used it. We use it so many times now with Forrest, avoidable goals. Steve Cooper must be pulling his hair out, really, because again, the Ferguson goal, yes, is a great first touch, and then he just stuttered a little bit before he put in the back of the net, but we didn't close him down. I saw Louis Dunk before he stupidly got himself sent off, blocking what, four or five? I was commentating on the game. And his desire not to let the ball come into any danger area that would cause his team a problem, I thought was exemplary. I thought it was superb. The header, yes, it was a good header from a long way out, but he's the wrong side of the ball. Ina's the wrong side of the ball. It's lack of concentration. The cross, who is going to close him down? Who is going to stop him getting that cross in?

Bryan Clubb always used to roar from the touchline, Stop the cross. Stop the cross. You can hear him every game. And Martin O'Neal said, I wonder why he always said that. He said, But then when I realized I understood exactly why he was shouting that because if it comes in your box, you've got a big chance to concede him. And the quality was good. The header was good. I still don't think that was a penalty of theirs. It was a bit silly from Chris Wood, but the ball had gone through the keeper. There's no way he was going to get it. And he threw himself to the floor as well and made a meal of it. And I just think it was somebody making that decision who'd not played the game again, who didn't really look closely enough at what was going on there. I still think ours was a penalty, and that's not because of my for-example. I said that in commentary. I said it's not because I'm an ex-player. I just thought that was more a penalty than theirs. But we've got to stop conceding sloppy goals, avoidable goals. I'm fed up of saying that, Matt, and you are as well.

The better players than that. He goes back to that one word I always say is the most important in football, concentration. You lose it for a second, and that's all it is, a split second. That's what quality players do for you. I mean, their injuries probably helped them more than went against them because he came on, Jael Pedro, and what did he do? He scored two goals. But I've got to say a big thumbs up to Morgan Gibbs White, to be fair. I thought for his penalty, for how long they tried to put him off to score it was impressive, and his ball for the first goal was absolutely superb. And that was shocking defending from Brighton, letting him run as far as they did. Nobody closed him down. That's what happens if you don't close you down. It happened to both teams, and it's just such an elementary thing to do. Go to the man with the ball. He's the most dangerous person. Not the man in the box. He's got to get the ball to the man in the box. The man with the ball at his feet is always the most dangerous because he's going to do the next thing that could hurt you.

We just don't stop those things at the moment. It's sad to see.

Yeah, In anger should have got out to the man much better, I thought, for that second one. Let me ask you a big tactical question, Gary, that is important. I want to get your take on it. I thought our midfield was terrible and it reminded me of last season's midfield where we couldn't get a kick, couldn't pass the ball and we dropped deeper and deeper. Over. Did we get so deep because we couldn't retain possession and we invited pressure? Or do you think it was a tactical thing to suck them in and try and hit them on the break? Because it didn't work.

I think the problem was Chris Wood was getting sucked deeper and deeper and there was no outlet once we got the ball. I said in commentary, the big comparison between the two sides was that Brighton moved it far quicker than we did. Their thrust going forward, it was was incisive. Ours were quite labored from the back. Players have got to play balls quicker and ping it to feet quicker. Ours was a little bit sloppy, a bit labored, I think, at times. Every time they went forward, they looked like they got something in them that could hurt us. There's always a man available. That wasn't a criticism of Chris Wood because as a striker, you want to get involved and you come closer to the ball to try and get that ball. But then you've got... Because everybody else is back, you're struggling. Because of one, he's got pace and a Langer's got pace, and when Brennan was there, you just knew you'd got the options to counterattack time after time. But at the moment, maybe that pace, a Langer's got the pace, but even he was dropping quite a bit deeper and we found a struggle to get out and actually try and hurt them.

Obviously, when they went down to 10 men, I thought they defended admirably. They're the other centre-half. I thought he led by example, and you've got to give them credit for holding out all that time with 10 men because I thought we'd definitely get something out of that game. But I think we took the easy options at time, just throwing the ball in. There wasn't a lot of thought behind delivery at times. It was sometimes hit and hope and that suited Brighton at that particular point.

The midfield, Mikey, I thought we really missed Sangare and Domingo's was ineffective within the Sangare role and Danilo was ineffective in the Domingo's role of pressing and trying to wing the ball back. Do you feel like Mangala needs Sangare to play as he does? Because it just all... There was a domino effect which all went wrong in that area I thought.

I just think there was a number of players that just didn't perform to the standard that they're capable of. And I think midfield is a really good example of it. It just shows you, doesn't it? When you take somebody out of the team that I think most fans would agree hasn't necessarily reached the heights yet that we know is capable of San Garay, but you take him out of that team and he makes a hell of a difference. His physical stature in there, his core, his composure, his confidence on the ball. And he has worked really, really well with Mangala since they joined up together. When I saw the team at two o'clock I was a bit... I wasn't overly worried because I thought, Danilo, he probably needs 60, 70 minutes and he did really well last season against Brighton. Sorry. So I thought we'll be fine. But it just became evident in that first half that we were really missing San Garay. And let's hope by all accounts, he's had a bit of a virus, hasn't he? Lost a lot of weight. Let's hope he's okay for the next game because Everton, physical team he's going to be absolutely crucial for us.

So I just thought it was an ineffective performance in midfield. And as soon as we went down to three-one, we started chasing. We looked a little bit better, of course, they went down to ten men. But I just thought overall, Matt, it was one of them where we thought didn't really click today. I've got to get back to the drawing board a little bit, try and get that makeup of the three right. So for me, it is Domingez, Sangari, and Bangala. And the quicker we can get those three back together, I think we'll be okay. So it was just one of those nights.

Do you think watching that match, Brighton, like I said, they moved it so much quicker than we did. I think it was slow from the back. It was not... Well, as a striker, I used to love of getting the ball pinged at my feet because it made me react. Ours was a bit slow. It wasn't any pace on the ball. They look just really sharper than we did, more incisive, more dangerous. You thought every time they went forward, there's an opportunity going to happen. I think going in front again, how many times have we gone in front and not taking advantage of that? It must be so frustrating for Steve because he can't do anything about it. He can only put a team out there that he thinks is going to do the job, and if they don't, well, that's down to them. Players often get away with the stick. The manager always gets the stick, but sometimes the players have got to stand up and say, Yeah, we weren't good enough today. I think like you said, some of them weren't at the top of the game. In the Premier League, if you're not at the top of your game, you're going to get beat.

But it's just those disappointing three-twos. How many have we had? It's not the odd one, it's quite a lot of them. Now, one year, that is going to be a massive loss. He's going to be out for a long time by the sound of it. If Chris Wood gets injured, we're back to that situation again, which you just got to hope maybe Man City and Chelsea get relegated to League 1 now. It is a worry, the lack of options upfront at the moment. It's good to see Hudson, Adoy and Eric back in contention. We need them in contention, get the fitness levels good, and now the international breaks are out of the way. But then we've got the Africa Cup of Nations where we're going to lose a host of players. That could be massively detrimental to us.

When you're watching the games, Greg, in the stands and we go up and then we can see, do you detect or worry about a mental weakness or a physical weakness? The goals are cascading in at the moment. What do you think it's down to?

Specifically on Saturday? No, not for that first goal, because it was a very good goal and they played with their entire team, passing the ball around the pitch, don't they?

That's what we're great there though. We gave the ball away. Danilo should have played, Gibbs White and he was in a great position. He hit the rugby pass and the next minute, he's in the back of our net. How many times- Danilo.

Was rusty, but just like for our first goal, they gave the ball away. Man, goal gets it off. It happens, doesn't it? It's just the fact that when we're playing top top teams, we're going to concede goals. We just need to be able to have that attack in front that are going to score us more. And with Tywell out now, it's going to kill us. But I just think going back to San Garay, if he's not playing on Saturday, for me, Yates has to start. He gives.

That presence. You've answered my question before I asked it for-.

Yeah, it just... Sorry. All I keep thinking about is next Saturday now and how we'd win that critical game. I think if we'd have played Everton, playing how we did this weekend, we'd have beat them. I do. I just think Brighton are a step above. They just knew how to get out of us and they did it. They did a job on us. In for the second goal. Yeah, wrong place. The penalty was a frustration. But I do think if they gave as, which they did eventually, they had to give theirs as well. But yeah, we're going to concede goals. We're in the Premier League. We're in the best league in the world. We've just got to figure out. We need two morillas at the back, basically, don't we? That'll help us out a little bit more. But I'm not as frustrated.

As I was. I can speak about a Gnacho style goal, but the goals were conceding.

That first goal was a good goal. Their first goal.

Was a good goal. I played a bit and a half, and I've mentioned Louis Dunk how good he was at closing down and how his desire probably kept his team in the game at that particular point, because we could have gone further in front. I think he made four blocks. My commentator kept saying, Louis Dunk again, Louis Dunk again. Louis Dunk again. And that's what you do as a centre-half. You have to close down quickly. You have to expect that your opponent, in that respect, Ferguson, and I rate very highly, he's only a young lad, but my word, he can play. His first touch was excellent. At the Premier League level, you expect that. You expect top players to have the top touch, and he has. So you don't back off him. You close down, and he actually paused and then he took the shot, and it was a great finish. But it was a stoppable one.

And I think with playing with the more attacking midfield like we did when Danilo, Gibbs White, Alangara linking up, there was some such quick play, like some brilliant play from us in spells. But once one of those passes goes wrong, it's not so much switching off. It's just not having that support when the other team come and attack at us. I think that's why we've got to just have that little bit more of a defensive, almost more of a negative midfield. It was exciting at times on Saturday, there was some quick passes going between three or four of them, superb. But like at the end of the first half, you lose the ball, you're going to get punished big time in this league. We are learning, we are, but there's going to be more goals like that. It's just how we come back from it.

The week after. All right, we'll go away from that goal, the header. That was just poor all round. The guy's got the ball and there's no pressure on him at all. There's nobody within five yards of him. He's in a really good area. Why is nobody closing him down? Then he puts the ball in the box. You know he's going to come and your fallback is not switched on and he's the wrong side and it's a great header, but again, it's a stoppable goal, and that's the annoyance because they're basics. As a defender, as a midfield player, pressure. You talk about pressing, pressing, pressing. Nobody pressed him before he put that ball in the box. That's a disappointed thing. Little things like that. We're not getting the basics right at times, I don't think, in certain areas.

Let me ask one Everton question that was on the list for later, but it fits into what we're saying. Mikey, Greg said we need two morillas. Do we need three morillas or three at the back? Certainly, do you think for what's going to be a war on Saturday, I would imagine against Everton?

It is. I enjoyed that back and forth with Greg and Gary. I think in terms of Everton, yeah, it did worry me. I watched them yesterday. They get it wide and every time they have four or five in the box. So you can tell what their game plan is. Kikore, Kelvin, Luan, the two wingers tuck in and the fallbacks overlap. So it's quite old school, should I say, but it's effective and it works for them and their away record is excellent. I don't think we're going to change shape. I can see the argument for it, the Everton game, but I think you've got to find a way to get Willy Bolly in that team, if I'm honest with you, because he doesn't lose much in the air and it's going to be a bit of a war at times on Saturday. So I was also thinking as Greg was talking, I think I'd go the opposite way because when you sit back against a team like Everton, they're just going to pen you in and put crosses in and eventually you'll succumb. I think if we're on the front foot, we've got a real opportunity on Saturday to pen them in and not worry about what they can do.

It should really be about what we can do to hurt them. And as Greg was saying, we've got some wonderful ball players. So I think we just need to be sharper, tighter, as Gas was saying, or move the ball quicker and worry about how we can score goals against them. But like I said, the other end, if Sangar is fit, he plays, there's a big argument to get Bryan Yates in. And I just think you don't need two Morillows or three Morillows. You just need Willy Boley next to him to head and kick it. And I have to say, I've retweeted something this morning for those guys on Twitter, the Merillo tracking back where he jogged a little bit and then he sprinted and tackled that guy near the end, it is phenomenal, the angle that I've given. He watches Mangala and when he realizes Mangala can't get there, he sprints back. He is a wonderful footballer. He is so good. So I just think get the right partner next to him, horses for courses. We know what Everton are going to do. Get Willy Bolly next to him will be all right.

Do you see any chinks in Marillo's armor, Gary? I think he's great as well, but we are seeing a lot of goals, and I can't think of too many being down to him. I think he's been good. But am I really giving him too much too soon?

Do you think- They mentioned necote either, really, have they? It's not just down... Yeah, it's a... When I played upfront, I played two upfront, and it was so important you integrated with your partner, and at the center half, it's just as important to do that. I played with Paul Futcher at Grimsby at the end of my career, and we think we might have helped the young lads around because we were very vocal. We were shouting and cajoling and trying to get them in the right positions and things like that, and that's what experienced players should do. You don't see many leaders out on football pitches anymore. I look at maybe look at the Forest side and think, Well, who's the leader out there? And you think, Well, is there anybody in that vein? I don't know. But the Premier League is the hardest league in the world to adapt to. I've spoken about this before when Birdcamps and people like that came over. They never nailed it straight away, and defenders aren't going to do that easy. When you've got somebody like Ferguson who's very young, and sometimes I watch him and he doesn't get a touch for quite a while, as strikers don't now.

But when he does get involved, he's difficult to pick up, he's difficult to mark, and you've got to be on your toes all the time, as we saw with a finish. With players like that, it's like Haaland. We talked about this before. In large parts of the games, he's not there, he's not involved, and then he will go and score a couple of goals for you. I just think it's going to be sharp. You said it, Mikey. I think sharpness was not there all around the pitch. I think Gibbs White probably had one of his best games of the season. His delivery for the first goal was exemplary. Then he put one for Chris Wood, which was difficult because he had no pace on and he was slightly behind him, so it's difficult for him to generate any pace. But yeah, that's what you want to see from Gibbs White. It's just collective. It's not individual. It's individual in your own mind. As a player, you want to do the right things, but it's a collective thing. When I was playing, if I didn't do something right, I knew I was going to get a right rollicking off my teammates, and that always lifted me to say, Right, I'm not going to do that again.

I'm going to do the right thing. But you don't seem to see that a great deal anymore, and I always like to see that. I always like to feel it because I wanted to do the right thing every time I got the ball. But the quality players, you've got to learn by your mistakes. If you don't learn by your mistakes, then you don't deserve to be in the team. The concern is at the moment we're making the same mistakes. Steve knows that. When the ball comes in the box, everybody's holding the breath. Are they going to score? It's like Bowen, the West Ham goal. He was one of the smallest players on the pitch, he's not 6'4, and he got a free header and that is switching off as a defender. Yes, great players are... They're going to punish you at times, but you have to be aware that they're going to do that and you have to expect that and you have to plan that in your own game. And it's just getting too many goals given away when we don't need to.

When you said about a back three or back four, Matt, and going on about Bolly, and I've just had a message, which is a good point, that we had a back four against Villa. I remember saying I wanted it to be a back five, and we kept a clean sheet then. I do think if you look at a game like that, you're compared to what we're going to go through and if, say, Bolly is fit, because was he just dropped on Saturday?

I don't know if he was on the bench, actually, I'll have a look.

I think you just stick to that back four and keep going at them next week, then you just have an idea. There's got to be a win or there's going to be big pressure all around the place, isn't they, on everyone?

I think we could go to Tottenham and win 2-1. We beat them 2-0. And just it's baffling sometimes that these sorts of results crop up. We've got it in us to beat good teams. We've seen that. We've got close to good teams, close to Arsenal, close to Man United. It is there, but it's about stopping this sloppiness at the back. The goals are conceding.

Just to add a little bit of balance, Matt, because I think it's right that we face into it and we talk about what we can do better and try and analyze it. But I think my mate James has been on me all weekend about comparison. So it's right that I mentioned it. So this time last season we played two games more, I think, just for the World Cup. We were in the bottom three and struggling. So now we're eight points drift to the bottom three. Appreciate Everton of that points deducted, but that's just the way it is. And if we beat them on Saturday, we go 11 points clear in theory. So we're not going down. It's just we're in a bit of a bad run, one winning nine. I think I wrote down here earlier what's eight goals in the last four games we've conceded? I think seven of them will cross us or set pieces. I mean, that's stuff you can work on and get better at. So it's not unfixable and it's not all doom and gloom, but I think it is right that we look at what we can do better as a club.

So let's not try to be too down about it, even though leaving the ground on Saturday, I was a bit... We'll have time to.

Read in my mind. We probably should have six to eight more points and then we're at seventh and dreaming of Europe. I think that's why people get frustrated. But it shows we're not far away from being where we can be as well.

Yeah, the worrying thing is, Luton beat Crystal Palace at the weekend. They're starting to creep up. I've watched Luton on a few occasions and they aren't overly bad. They've got a win in them, as it proved at the weekend. But yeah, you don't want to get dragged down. Like you said, Mikey, I think, and Greg, the game on against Everton is just immense now. If Sean died, you'll want to put one over on Nottingham Forest without a doubt. And we saw when they.

Came- We'd seen enough of us.

Yeah, when they came to City Ground last season, they were very good. I think we were fortunate to come out with a draw last season against them. It was 2-2, wasn't it?

Yeah, and they.

Did put us in.

Too often. We didn't deal with them.

Yeah, it was the one where we drew against Man City and felt like we just lifted a cup. It was incredible. Then you draw against Everton and you walk out so deflated. But saying about loot and winning, flip it over, that keeps Pallace about one point away from us. We went on Saturday and we jumped them. So it's just a crazy league this year for all different reasons.

Yeah. Everton lost at home to Luton. Teams keep having these bad results. I think the annoying thing is that we're getting in position to win these games when we probably should be seeing them out. And if we do, then we'll be just fine.

And it was just the last 10 minutes of the game, these crosses we kept throwing in. When you're down to ten men, took in crosses into the... They've got everyone behind the ball. You're not getting an advantage from having that extra man, Oh, yeah. I just felt like we needed to pass it about a bit more. It looked like Marillo was trying to line up for a shot a couple of times, and then he just kinder, I don't know whether he just lost his bottle a little bit and laid it off, got it out wide, more crosses in. It just wasn't working, and.

It was thinking- You've got to get round teams when they're down to 10 men because they'll just pack the tuddy box.

And that was that again, learning point. Sorry in the comments that don't like it, but they are going to learn from that, aren't they? And that was one of the most frustrating points for me, the way that.

We- I think what, Greg? As well, Chris would have gone off by then. If you're putting crossers in the box when he's there, that's his strength. Maybe keeping him on and letting one of the two who came on play alongside him or play off him, that might have been an idea, but yeah, it's all a learning curve. All you can do is hope that players do learn. That's what Steve will be hoping, that they learn from the mistakes, and if they do, you've got to applaud that. But we can't keep doing what we're doing at the moment to not defend set pieces, crossers coming in the box. Oppositions, they watch every game, their opponents coming up are played, and they'll say, Right, get that ball in the forest box every opportunity you can, because they're struggling to defend. They're a bit nervous now maybe because people keep saying they can't defend set pieces, and teams will do that to you. That's what the Premier League is all about. That's people doing the jobs, watching what the weaknesses are of football teams. And Forest will do the same, watching their opponents. They've got to put it right quickly in that respect.

I'm just skirting way back. Willy Bolly was on the bench on Saturday, so he's not injured and he could come in, and Montial was on the bench and O'Ready. I wonder if we might see a fallback change. Although, I mean, just quickly, Greg, the tough flow took some dead balls and I thought they were decent. What did you make of them in the ground?

I liked it. We said this in the first half because we're right near that corner, that A block low Bridge for the corner. And it was good because it gives white that opportunity as well. It took him off the set piece and he's more of a danger in and around that box. His quick feet, even winning the ball back, if it doesn't come to us straight away. So it was a really good option to have tough-to-follow doing that. I saw someone in the comments a minute ago actually talking about trying some short quarters because I don't know if it was statistically we can score something like 5 % from these corners anyway. So maybe they'll look at that because we seem to be getting quite a few at the minute, which shows we are getting it up there a bit more in attacking positions. But I must admit, like Gibbs White with his corners this season, they've not been amazing after as good as we'd hoped. I liked that switch. I really did.

Yeah, and I think Gary's right to highlight. I thought Gibbs White had a really.

Good game. One of his best, definitely.

Yeah, I.

Thought it was his best game. I've captained him as well. He got me some good points, but anyway.

You're joking. Did you captain him?

24 points, I'd tell you.

How did you keep.

Doing this? Yeah. It's mad.

Okay, well, this isn't the time to talk about FPLs. It's a bit of a glean. Yeah. Okay. I don't know how you keep doing it. On the strikers, Gary, what do you make of Wood and o'reary? Because I don't mind saying I thought O'Reilly was not very good at all when he came on, and I thought Wood just didn't play through his strengths. I felt a bit sorry for him. He's coming deeper and deeper. Do you have to tell him just stay up there and make people busy? What he's-.

What he's- -wants from him. I said... Again, you said in commentary, I said I felt really sorry for Chris Wood because he's dropping deeper to get involved, and you've got to play to your strikers' strengths. We saw against Man City last season. He finished there. That finish, he was in the right place, right time as strikers are to get us a one-each against them, and he scored goals this season. But he didn't get a great deal of real quality. That one ball from I mentioned from Gibbs White, there was a lovely cross, but just got nothing on it and it's difficult to generate power when it's like that. But you want him in the right areas. You want him upfront. He's not the fastest, though. He's not one you wear, he'll break forward with pace and hurt people. If you're playing him, again, his strengths are when it comes in the box. We were putting a lot in when he wasn't on the pitch. But yeah, it's the one thing that I repeatedly said that's the worry for me, that we never signed an out-and-out top quality striker maybe, when you saw the options we got, but you just had Hudson, Adoy now, and De Regie get themselves match fit.

They've got the opportunity, hopefully, to do that and they could make an impact. We know they've got the quality. It's just getting them in the team and getting a consistent run from them. That's not going to be easy because if they might not fit into the system that Steve wants to play.

Yeah, I thought Hudson had always bright when he came on, to be fair.

That's what I was going to say when we talk about Next Man Up, and that's one of Cooper's things that I love. Next Man Up, we've always got that. But after Wood and Regie, I'm not sure who the striker is to turn to then. It's there.

They have to step up, don't they?

In Reggie, I think they have. Yeah. If one of them gets injured before the January market, which that's a good thing. Some of these teams, the Sheffield United teams like that, they're not going to be able to. We know with our owner that if we need something, we're going to get it one way or another in January. So there will be that striker. I love Tywell. I said it on the West End podcast the other week. How strong he is for us, but the big issue is his injuries, and it's happened again, hasn't it? So even next season, even if he has a really good end of season, we can't rely on him, sadly, just because of how he is with his injury form.

Well, there's an article in one of the papers last weekend or last week saying there's never been as many injuries in the Premier League in the history, more so this season all over the Premier League than there's ever been. The question they were asking is why. It is a good question to ask why. When we played those two seasons where we won everything, we play 130 odd games on Muddheaps with 15 players. So why is there.

Always- I think it's the level of training as well, isn't it? The training eight hours a day, they've played in the summer. The guy next to me, stood next to me, looks a bit like Gary Nevel, actually, but he was talking about the African Cup of Nations as well. And we've got the most players going to that tournament, aren't we? So there's going to be more injuries coming back from that. Not only do we lose them for two or three games during the winter, but there's going to be more injuries coming back from that. So it is just crazy and it makes you wonder whether eventually they're going to have to look at extending this 25 man squad to a 30 man squad or something because most teams are in the same boat.

True. Let's move it along. I actually thought Chris Wood did okay, but it's such a huge drop off from Tyiway that we're just going to notice it no matter what and we didn't play towards strengths. Let's talk about the penalties quickly. Gary's given his thoughts. Mikey, what did you make of Brighton's penalty first and then our penalty?

I don't think either of them were... I certainly didn't think Brighton's was. But I guess if you are, I shouldn't say this, but if you're going to give one, you're probably going to give the other. It's just the way football is at the moment. You know I'm not anyone that ever watches this podcast knows I absolutely hate the AR and everything it's done to this game. I think it's ruined it for supporters. The focus is getting the right decision, even though it takes three or four minutes. And going back to injuries, people stood around for four minutes, cooling down and then having to sprint again. So that's not helping. Anyway, neither were penalties in my opinion that I agree with Gary. The Brighton guy is not going to get there and chucks himself to the floor. Would be a bit silly with his arms all over him. But if you're going to give that, there's about five or six in every game you watch, you're going to have five or six punches a game. And then ours was probably more of a penalty, but I still didn't think it was either. But if that's the level that they're giving, then that's what it is.

I just don't like it. I don't like the way VAR is just completely sacked all the emotion out of the game. I hate it.

And they do that, but you watch every corner. Players just aren't watching the ball. They're just intent on just getting their arms around people. They're fouls every day of the week, but because the ball is not in play, they're not given. They need to change that rule because it's spoil in the game in that respect as well. You see very few goals now scored by centre-offs from corners because everybody's all over them and you're stopping the run in the ground the waste. Referees talk to them, but don't do anything about it. Change the law a little bit. Say before it comes in, it's a penalty if you're doing that, and it will soon stop because it is a good spectacle when a set piece is a good one, somebody scores a decent header. We don't see that many times anymore.

No, true. I'm just last one on the game quickly before we move on. Greg touched on this, Gary, and I think he's right. I felt we need a lot more craft after going against 10 men. Do we need to get down the size of them and pull the ball back? What do we need to do to manipulate the space better?

When you go down and you're playing against 10 men, you have to make it difficult for them. You have to move them about because mentally and physically they're going to tie if you do that. But I think we just made it a little bit easy because we just kept throwing the ball in the box and hoping that we get something out of it instead of maybe being a little bit brighter, a little bit more inventive, getting round the backs of teams instead of just throwing in the box. Because centre-halves like that. The lad, I can't remember his name. De Hec... Was it De Hec? Van Hacq?

Yeah, he was good. Van Hacq, yeah.

I mean, he was immense when Dunk went off. I mean, how stupid was that, by the way? Donk getting sent off. You get a yellow card and then he carries on. He's the most experienced man on the pitch.

That was a straight red, he got. He must have really said something. It was a straight red. It wasn't a second yellow. He must.

Have really said something. I thought he'd been booked. I thought he got a yellow out first. I'm sure.

He got a yellow out. He did, yeah, he got booked. But then apparently what he said was so bad that it was.

A straight red.

Card offense.

Yeah, somebody sent me the link to him about exactly what he called Anthony Tales. Don't repeat on here.

Tell us, Gary. I don't know. Go on.

No, I mean, stupid is that from an experienced player. England international, you're winning in the game and he does that, gets himself sent off and puts his team under pressure. But that's beside the point. We're not well interested in what.

They- I've just seen in the comments what it might have been.

Exactly. But yeah, it's about us. It's not about opposition. The annoying thing is we've mentioned the Villa game. We know we can do it.

We.

Didn't make a great deal of mistakes in that game. They missed a few chances, blazed over the bar where they should have probably done better, but they didn't score. We cleaned sheet two-nil, and then you think, Right, okay, what a great result that is, because Villa were one of the informed teams. And then we lose against West Ham when we shouldn't have done, we'd lose against Brighton when we probably should have got something out of it. It's that lack of consistency that's concerning.

That leads into the last topic to discuss about the manager, reportedly under pressure again, not for the first time. I don't think he's on the brink or anything like that, but he is in the stage where he needs a result soon, I would say. It's a results business, Greg, at the end of the day, isn't it? Do you worry for the manager's future at the moment or not?

Yeah, definitely worry for it, especially if Saturday doesn't go well. If Saturday doesn't go well, then this conversation is a completely different one. He's done so much for us. He's so clever in some of the things he's done to get us where he is. And I completely trust that he'll get us out of this little rut as well. And I think that'll be shown on Saturday. I have noticed that you talk about the manager this time last year, and 95 % of the fan base are saying, got to stay, got to keep with him. That's changing, though. And I think obviously our owners don't listen to the fan base, and they never should. But that has definitely changed the conversations in and around the ground. Not that I agree with them at all, but you can definitely see a shift in opinion. Not the majority, but a lot more people are talking that way. But it only takes one game and one good win against Everton on Saturday. The crowd, everything, half five, kick off. There's going to be some big things happening. It's just going to be a really massive chance for us. The pressure's on him and he knows it, but the pressure's on him every single game, no matter how well he's doing.

Get Saturday out the way. Get Saturday as a win and we don't have to talk about it until the next time we lose.

Well, the crowd were magnificent again, weren't they? At the weekend. It's one of the loudest I think I've heard for a long time as well. It was just fantastic. The noise around the ground, especially when Morgan Gibbs White scored the penalty. If they get rid of him, I can't see any plus points in doing that. I watched them train. I watched how he sets up in training, and it's fantastic to watch. It's quick and it's incisive. The training is spot on. The professionalism, spot on. Everything about it is absolutely great to watch. But I've said before, a manager can do that, which he does with trainings, and training is second on from what I've seen when we train, it was totally different, which is obvious, but it's about players when they get out there. Brian Cliffs, what he always said, I go back to him. Once you cross that white line, it's down to you. I've picked you. It's down to you. That's your job when you get out that cross that white line. And that's how players have got to accept it. Players never accept they do anything wrong. I saw one incident in the corner flag where, who was it?

I don't think, pushed the guy over right in front of the assistant. Yeah, there. And he didn't even give the foul for that. He shoved him with two hands. Right, he's a foot away at the assistant, didn't give a foul for that. But you cannot, as a manager, accept that, not accept it, but you can't do anything about the stupidity of a player doing that when the guy is facing his own corner flag under pressure and you shove him to the floor. What is that all about? It drives you nuts, but you know it's going to happen. They're the things that annoy you more than anything, but getting swapping manager now would be absolutely madness for me, because then whoever comes in has got his own methods, his own way of seeing things. He will see view players differently to what Steve sees them. He has his own training methods, and that could disrupt everything, especially with the African Cup of Nations coming up as well. It would be silly because Steve is still doing a very, very good job for me. We're losing games by the odd goal. West Ham 3-2, they're 3-2, we beat the villa.

We're not getting battered by teams, but it's just those little mistakes that we're making, those avoidable goals. That's the last time I'm going to say, avoidable goals. And that's not down to a manager, that is down to player individuality. That they switch off, they don't close down, and that's basics. If you haven't got the basics of a player, you struggle and you concede goals. And that's what's happening at the moment. Nothing to do with the manager when players make those silly mistakes.

I suppose the question, Mikey, is to what degree do you think we're underperforming to be where we are now? Are we way off? Are we about where we should be? Because that dictates whether the manager's future for me.

I think we're a bit off. If if I'm honest, I think you said it right at the start of the show map, maybe six or seven points off, probably where we should be. People cast their mind back to the games that we've had, the leads that we've had the last two games for example, there's some, the looting, the tunnel up, these are points we're chucking away. It only takes one or two of those games to be seen out and we're not even having this conversation. I also think we're leaving the ground on Saturday and the first two messages I got both read the same thing from different people and it was along the lines of that time of the year again, Cooper's under pressure. So he knows what it is. We all know what it is. It's a results business that it can turn in the space of 90 minutes. So if we turn up on Saturday, put Everton to the sword, we could be nicely mid-table and not having to have this conversation. But that's just the nature of the beast. There's the earners injected 200 or so million pounds, probably more. And with that level of investment comes a higher level of expectation.

So, Steve Cooper and his team will know this. And like I said, they're not far off. I said it earlier. Seven of our last eight goals have been that we've conceded have been set pieces or crosses or mistakes. You cut half of them out. It's not as if we're being ripped apart and losing three nil, four nil. It's just silly errors of concentration, as Gary said, so we're not far off.

Mikey, going back to basics as well, you can practice in training all you like and stay there for 10 hours a day trying to cut those out. It doesn't matter about what happens on the training pitch. You know you're making those mistakes. It's when you're out there on a Saturday afternoon getting your concentration levels right, watching the ball instead of trying to fight somebody off and not even know where the ball is. The number of times you see players and they just don't know where the ball is. You've got to be professional about it. You can train all you like, a manager can train anything they like, but trying to defend that piece. A manager will put Willy Bolly in there, Neo Carti, big lads in there, but we're still conceding goals at times. To Bowen, yes, it was a great delivery from Ward Prowse, but you know it's going to be a great delivery from Ward Prowse, so expect it to be and get your concentration levels up at any level. I mean, I played centre-half. I know how important it is to concentrate on what's coming your way. If it's a magnificent ball and you're in the right position and it just goes over, beats you a little bit and somebody scores behind you, you hold your hands up sometimes and you say, Right, okay, I couldn't do anything about that.

But they're not the goals we can see at the moment. They're goals we can stop or should have stopped. And you're right about the position. Luton, we should have got three points there. Should have beaten Pallace away, didn't, we got a point, which last season would have been collided with. We get a point against Brighton, that would have been fantastic. Just that one point on Saturday, the way things had gone. But it's little bits and bobs and other teams will say exactly the same. They'll be having the same conversations we're having. It's all down to the players once they cross the white line. And managers can do absolutely nothing about it if they continually make those mistakes apart from leaving out the team. That's all you can do to stop it.

Yeah, I agree. I don't think we were far from where we should be. I think we look at more accomplished Premier League team this season, so I think we'll be all right, but we need to iron out these creases very quickly. There was a couple of points I was going to make as well. People keep referring back to the amount which has been spent, which is true, and obviously the owners back to them massively. But we were starting from square one. Our squad was nowhere near Premier League ready and they needed to spend a lot of that money to get us to even be competitive. We had about five players in the youth team when we came up. So that's a mitigation. And the other thing is you watch Brighton and their recruitment and the way they play and everything's so well drilled and so fine tuned, we're still signing new notes of ours to play left wing-back and now we're playing with left backs. I don't think we still know exactly what we are and what we want to be. And Cooper is still melding a team with seven deadline day signings, and it sounds like I'm making excuses for him and to an extent I am.

But I do think there's mitigation and I don't think we're hopeless.

And.

I think we're a lot like... This was the only thing I would say about Sassé was, it was the first game where I thought we looked like last season's team in midfield. I came on here and droned about how bad we were in midfield every week, can't pass it, can't retain possession. And that was the worry for me was that we looked like we'd regressed a long way. So against Everton, we need more control. We need more discipline and desire to defend our box. And if we see that, then I think we'll be fine. But I don't think Cooper is doing a terrible job. I think we're making terrible errors that are making us look worse than we are. Right. That was my bit. I think that covers all the agenda. Anything else you want to say, Greg, before we depart?

Yeah, just two things. I got a message last week, and it wasn't even Forest-related, but it was from a brilliant Cooper comment, and I think it makes so much sense for the Everton game coming up as well. Sorry, something's just popped up. Don't know what that is. And it was about what this football club is about, what Forest is about. And he says, When people make big errors, we don't kill them, we get behind them. I think that's exactly what we've got to do on Saturday. There's not been many games this season where the crowd has been commented on like, Wow, that's impressive. I think on Saturday, half five kick off under the lights. It'll be a very impressive start to that game, I think. I think the crowd have just got to really get there. And on the any other business, for are going back to what we used to do well at the very start. And we've got a really good prematch planned at Saltbox right on the edge of the ice arena on Palero Square. That's going early doors from about 12 o'clock. We've got DJ, live music from Louis, who's been on all over the timeline with his brilliant songs this past week, so he's going to be playing for us.

So get down there, get your singing heads on and take it straight into the ground. And I really think we can give Everton a beat and I really do.

Well, yeah, I think so. I agree. I think we can. It does worry me the game, because I think they're going to front up and we're going to have to. That's the big question for me. We'll talk more about that later in the week anyway, on Thursday. Mikey, anything for you before we depart?

Yeah, nicely said. Just a couple of things. Just congratulations to the women's team. Obviously, yesterday I think they got into the last third round of the FA Cup and also our Under-21s, I think they're in the AFL Cup. Did we get Doncastra away?

Yeah, not Derby.

Everyone wanted Derby, of course. So just congrats to those two teams. And I just echo what Greg has said. I think there's a difference between facing into what went wrong and trying to analyze it and understand it. And I think we've come to a consensus today that we're the makers of our own downfall. And if we tie it up and concentrate a little bit more, we'll be fine. I think it's very different than just absolutely slay them, which I hope we don't do. So I just echo what Greg was saying. I think Saturday feels a big game. I love these half five kickoffs because I think everybody's just has a couple more hours just to get up for it. And if the three o'clock's go our way, we could shoot up that table, pass Pallace, pass a few more. So let's just be positive because one result changes it all.

True. So Gary, anything for you before we depart?

Yeah. Again, I've just got to go back to players and managers. The stick that managers always get and always take, whereas players get away with it. You've got to be professional as a player. It's too easy to not accept responsibility sometimes, and I think that's where we're... Our downfall is a little bit at the moment, personal mistakes, switching off, get that right, and we're going to be okay without a doubt. I'm just going to say a big up for Harry Cain for what he's doing for by Muniq at the moment. Goodness me, I keep watching that and he seems to be breaking record after record. People will say, Well, it's a Bunders League. You've still got to score. He's in his 30s now and he's having an exceptional season. And Gnacha, I've got to mention that goal. That is just ridiculous ability to do that. I think even the Everton fans behind the goal were mini-applauding it because it was so impressive. Very much like the Rooney goal against Man City a few years ago. That's it from me. Players take a bit more responsibility, but get the concentration levels. That's all it is. It's a lack of concentration that is probably costing us these goals at the moment.

It's true. It's major. It's fixable, without a doubt.

No, not much for me. I don't think I was going to say a few couple of times to this is just the note... I noticed this is a strikers thing, Gary. We see a lot of one touch and finish at the weekends like Ferguson, Haaland, Ollie Watkins. That's how strikers seem to be playing now. That's a widely conversation. We've been going on for an hour. So I just wanted to get that in. Go on, Greg.

I don't know whether we've had a show since Emily and Eastman does today won the award as well. So shout out to her for that if not.

No, we haven't. Congratulations to Emily and East Midlands today for winning an RTA. What's that? I don't know what that stands for. Something Yeah, but a.

Regional award. There's a big award.

World television.

World television Academy or something like that.

Yeah.

So well done to Emily. I was also going to say, Oh, yeah, I was going to go back. I can't believe Greg, Captain, gives away an F. P. L. After he got one assist all season and then he gets a goal and assists from the captain.

I'm going to keep calling myself the Captain King and it seems to keep working. I'm slowly creeping up your league now. I'll be respected one day in the F. B. L. World.

I plans on two weeks ahead, three weeks ahead, six weeks ahead, and you catch in, gives away, and probably getting more points. How many points do you get this week?

I don't know. I just saw a give away, I've got like, 24. I don't know how many points you got. Over 50.

I got 50. Sorry. Yeah, we're going off on a real tangent. We might do an F. P. R. Podcast next season. I don't know, me and Greg and someone else. And then I can go on.

For this some more. Me as the expert. Yeah.

Thanks for everyone who's joined us in the comments, very much appreciated loads of them. Some positive, some negative. That's all fine. All pretty respectful. So that's good. Greg, thank you very much.

I enjoyed it. See you all next Saturday. Be loud.

Yeah, indeed. Mikey, thank you.

Thanks very much. I enjoyed reading the comments today, guys. The first time in a while. Some good stuff on there. So thank you very much.

Gary, thank you.

An absolute pleasure. I can't read anything because I'm not into social media, so I have no clue what's going on.

You're on your phone. But if you get a laptop for Christmas, you can read the comments.

They're usually about your shirt and wallpaper, Gary. You're not missing much.

Okay, that's it. Mike has.

Got a Christmas jumper for every day until Christmas now, so people should get used to that. Right, we'll leave it there. We'll be back on Thursday or Friday with the match preview. But in the meantime, thank you very much, everyone. Have a good few days and we shall see you soon.