Hello, skyboard your edge. Good to be back with you after two weeks off. Thanks to Michael Temple for his sterling work as standing host. He's awarded by being dropped to the bench this week as joining me to discuss preseason form and the latest transfer news are, first of all, former Reds midfielder Lewis Magugan. Lewis, good morning. You well?

Morning. Yeah, not too bad, thank you.

Good. And also with us is Mikey Clark. Mikey, how are you?

Yeah. Morning, Matt. All good? All good. Are you good?

Not bad. Very quiet birthday yesterday. I paired some socks and did some washing up because the dishwasher is broken. So, yeah, it was a thrilling way to turn 41, but I think that's what happens with old age. But yeah, good. Thank you. Mikey's got a random football shirt on as normal, so if anyone can get it in the comments, then a bonus point to you. Good morning to people who joined us already and also happy birthday to Paz I see in the comments. Do drop your thoughts in and we'll go through them as we go along and put a few on screen, hopefully. Right, stuff on the agenda today. Preseason for mixed results, does it matter? And we'll discuss what preseason is actually about and then transfer chat around Brennan, Dean Henderson, et cetera, et cetera.

Right.

We'll start with preseason. Like I say, mixed results so far. Beaten Knotts County in Levante. Lost to Valencia, Leeds and PSV with two games. To mean one of the things we wanted to was does it actually matter if Forest are winning or losing these games before we get into tactics and style of play, what do you think? What's preseason generally about for you?

Listen, it's about a lot of things. As players, they'll look at it very differently to us. Steve Cooper and his coaching staff will look at it completely different as well. Everyone's trying to get individual things out of it. I think as a team, collectively, you don't want to be losing any games and you want to try and build a momentum going into the season. But listen, I've been part of teams that have gone through preseason and won every game and you feel like you're in a great position. You start the season, you can lose two or three your first games and you think, where's that come from? Do you know what I mean? And then I've been on the other end where we've had the worst preseason ever and you think that it's going to be a tough start and then the ball gets kicked on the first day and you go on a little run and no one sees that coming. I think you've just got to try and find that happy medium, really. I think that when you look at it, I think players are starting to come back and I think maybe this season being part of the Premier League for now, the second season.

I think Nottingham Forest and especially the fans are now seeing maybe a difference of how preseasons work at the top level in terms of how the players kind of come back in in little stages, whereas mostly in a championship and leagues below, everyone kind of start on the same day. But obviously with the Internationals periods, that seems to now change. So I think the early friendlies that sometimes has a lot to do with it. I think over the next two weeks now, the squad is really starting to kind of come together, a few people come back. Gibbs White played his first game against PSV and players like that. I think the next two weeks are going to be really important for various things.

For Steve Cooper Lewis is it like there's probably like a graph, like my arms going the wrong way. We want to be at 80% fitness two weeks from the start of the season, 90% a week away, and then you want to be 100% ready to go for Arsenal and kind of the stuff before then in a sense is just kind of progressing the curve upwards. Is that all he wants to see really, do you think?

Yeah, of course. I think that any kind of management team, when they start preseason, they'll have the plans and the way they want preseason to go. Like we know nothing's ever going to go to plan and there will be things in that what happens, maybe a few people will get injured, which then also allows younger players to emerge. And sometimes from a younger player's perspective, they come into preseason to kind of maybe be one of the numbers because a lot of the first team players are maybe missing the trip or out injured. And then they could find themselves come to the end of the preseason in the reckoning for maybe a chance to be in the squad. And that kind of catapults them into the manager's eyes and the coaching staff where maybe at the start of preseason they wasn't thinking about that. So I think that you can have this kind of process and you want to hit these targets along preseason, but it never happens. And every day something will happen, something will change and obviously then sign ins maybe coming in, but also players going out maybe can change things. So it's a hectic period.

From a player's point of view, you just want to try and get in, get as fit as possible, stay injury free and just be ready for available for selection come first day of the season. From a player's point of view, that's all you want to try and be. But from a class point of view, there's so many little things that can change on a daily basis, which you might have a plan and an outlook, what you want the first day of the season ready for Arsenal to look like. And that could completely change within days and weeks. And you could find yourself at Arsenal in a different place with a completely different team that you didn't think that you would be starting the season with.

Two people have got your shirt, Mikey, so well done to Gary and Hal Breezy is Chicago Fire. You've seen quite a few of the pre season games, Mikey. People have generally said, I haven't seen them because I've been on a holiday, I've only seen a few highlights. But you have watched them. People have generally said they've been a bit dull, not very inspiring. What have you made of them so far?

Yeah, the thing with being on with Lewis is he makes such a compelling argument based on previous knowledge and understanding of how preseason works. Kind of half changes your opinion, but I will stick to my guns in terms of what I think preseason's gone so far. It's not been great. I'll be honest with you know, we ended the back end of last season very compact, arguably dropping our best player in Johnson to try and have that solid shape in order to get results, to get us over the line. And I think, from my perspective, what I would have really liked to have seen, and there's still time, by the way, there's still a couple of friendlies, is a slightly more of an expansive front foot style. So I'm in two schools of thought, really. You look at our start of the season, we've got six really tough away games, arguably the six toughest all season. So, realistically, he's going to play a back five, so he doesn't want to lose any of the understanding and the shape and the structure that he had last season. And I get that. But the flip side of the scale is we've got very winnable home games and the only signing we've made so far, other than obviously making Chris Wood permanent, is Anthony Alanga.

So you'd like to think that Alanga will start those home games. So what I would have really liked to have seen is a bit of both. So that defensive structure, which I thought we saw at Parks against Valencia, not so much against Leeds, but a bit more that front foot high, pressing, attacking football, which we're going to have to play in those first few weeks at home. Like I said, though, and Lewis makes a great argument, it is still early. There's a lot of players that haven't come back. Know, Morgan only kicked his first ball the other day. We've not even seen the likes of Felipe and Brennan Johnson and people like that. So my head is telling me just to calm down, stop panicking, it's only preseason, doesn't matter. But my heart is saying I would love to see something in these next two games to give me a bit of confidence that, yes, we're going to play, I don't know, gibbs White, Alanga Johnson in behind Owen E. However they want to set up and to see some of that fluidity, just give us a bit of confidence. But like I said, I know it's early, it's not been great, if I'm honest, and just reading a few comments, I think most people kind of agree with me.

But like I said, going on back to what Lewis has said, it's all about getting ready, isn't it? And you know, what? If they turn up on Wednesday and put in a great performance and then again in the last preseason, friendly, we might all be flying. Can I just say one more thing as well? I tried to remember my favorite preseason, which is a really weird thing to do, but I did 2002, I think it was just before the Paul Hart run. We were brilliant. We battered Newcastle at home, three one. I think Johnson got five or six goals, and going back to what Lewis said there, I felt as a fan, like we were going into that season red hot and it kind of played out that way. We had a great season and I just kind of want to see a bit of that in the next week or so. So let's score some goals, let's get everybody up for the game, because we know those first few weeks is going to be difficult. But it's preseason and it doesn't matter, does it? It's just about getting fit.

Yeah. I really struggled to remember any pre seasons. I couldn't tell you any pre season results from last season before we kicked the ball in the Premier League. You forgot. Ola aina, as Mike points out. So, yeah, forgotten already. That's the important point as well, Lewis, isn't it, that Brennan's not kicked a ball yet because of injury? Tywe's barely played Gibbs white. He's probably very match fit because of his England, but we haven't seen much or Alanga's New through the door. A lot of the attacking players we haven't really seen in preseason yet, which is kind of comforting, but also a bit of a concern that there's probably not so much, cohesion there is there at the moment.

No, and listen, that happens. I think if, looking back, I made a point. The live show that we did about the fixtures and about Nottingham Forest playing the bigger teams, and I think maybe fans look at it a bit in that way, is that I've said that playing the big teams in the first six weeks sometimes is the best thing because they're not ready. The players have come back in little stages, they probably don't get going until at least six to eight weeks into the season when everyone's back, everyone's now got the group and I think a little bit like that is starting to happen now. Nottingham Forest are Premier League club and they've got these international players and people are going to get kind of fed back into the team, back into the squad, and maybe come the Arsenal game is it exactly where Steve Cooper wants to be and where he sees everything in place? Probably not, because it's just so hectic and so squash period of time. It's so hard to get everyone in and tactically structured to be ready for the start of the season. So it might take three or four weeks to really get that kind of understanding of how the manager is going to set up and wants to set up.

That might be tactically and personnel, I think, take a bit of time. And I think that maybe we shouldn't look at Arsenal first game of the season. So that is going to be kind of the blueprint of things going forward.

Do you think, Mikey? Did you watch the PSV game?

I did, yes, indeed.

So Chris Wood played in that. And I don't want to pile in on Chris Wood because he's been injured for three months and it's probably hard coming back from him, but does it show maybe we're a bit light, a Scarper as well, hasn't played. Does it show we're a bit light in Attack without those players there perhaps. Isn't the depth there? If Brennan doesn't play, we'll come on to him, but Alanga betting in as well. Does it show that we probably need to see more from Wood and we're back to the same discussions we had?

We are, yeah. When I looked at those team sheets for those couple of games, I was struggling to see a forward on Know. I know, obviously, Chris Wood plays the last one, but I think the one before did Taiwo start and it just seemed that the one up front, be it Taiwo or Huang or Chris Wood, so isolated because we're playing with that deep block, even Know inferior teams, perhaps. Certainly, yeah. And it's those forward. You know, I've read a few articles since about the potential for, say, a Ryan Yates to play further up the pitch. I don't think that will happen, if I'm being brutally honest. I genuinely think, and maybe Lewis can disagree with me, but I genuinely think that it's all about getting players minutes at this stage. So when you see a team line up and you have the reaction that I had, which was, what on earth are we playing here? Is it five five none? Is it Ward up front on his own? You have to almost temper yourself because playing Ryan Yates in behind the front man, that's not really going to happen, is it? I mean, please tell me in the comments if you think I'm wrong, but once everybody's fit and the names that you guys are suggesting gibbs, White, Alanga Brennan, Johnson, Scarper, they'll all be ahead of a Ryan Yates in that position.

So those first few preseason games were surely just about getting people minutes on the pitch. So I won't read too much into the fact that we only started with one striker and would look isolated. However, I will say that this week, with the players having a week more of training and getting used to being in those surroundings again, I would like to see a bit more of an attacking lineup, if possible. But like I said, it's preseason, we can go through the ins and outs of it, but essentially it's just about getting ready for those first few weeks of the season. Don't read too much into results, maybe not even shape or pattern of play, even though I realize I've just said I like to see a bit more in a play. But if you've got what you've got available and if we've only got a Chris Wood up front, then it's just going to be Chris Wood up front. I am interested to know what's happened to Scarper and Josh Bowler, though, because they were around in those first few preseason fixtures. Matt and seem to have disappeared. So quite interesting that we'd not have them in the team.

So be interesting to see the team on. Is it Wednesday that we play? No. Thursday.

Is it Wednesday against Rand? I think Scarpa must be injured because a lot of the frennies have been abroad. The manager hasn't done much post match press, has he? So he's not really been asked about individuals. I don't think the club are going to put that out. So, yeah, we'll see. Someone said in the comments that Bowlers going out on loans the championship, which makes sense. I haven't seen anything today about that. What do you think Lewis about? Does the formation that he's struck on, they've been playing it's like three wingbacks, two, two, one. Does that make sense to you when you consider playing this in preseason with the away games to come, arsenal, Chelsea, United City, Liverpool, all early in the season, is it wise to manage to focus on that in pre season?

I think there's been a change. I actually did the commentary for the Levante game, so I watched that and I made a point that Yates, he was playing high, he was playing kind of really high off the right hand side as more of a kind of like a two, him and Danilo behind the main striker. So there has been evidence of YatesI paying a lot higher. Whether that's something that the manager is looking at to go into the season or whether it's just a needs must at this point in time, in terms of personnel and in terms of maybe he's trying to get Yates his minutes. But also we've got a lot of more players in terms of Freudler, Kiati, Mangala who can play the deeper ones. So as a squad, and you've got to think that everyone, we need to get as everyone as many minutes as possible. So sometimes players have to sometimes play in different positions where it's a bit lighter, but it means that he can still get his 75 minutes, at times 90 minutes, and then it allows other players to also get their minutes in. So sometimes you look at it and I think, yeah, don't sometimes read too much into that.

But I think a few games now, obviously, I think a few games, YatesI has been playing that more advanced role, so there may be a bit more into that that the manager is looking at. But like I say, it's a tough one because of so much going on. And I think that doesn't help because there's a lot going on kind of off the pitch in terms of a lot of speculation regarding ins and outs. That also doesn't help because really, preseason, you just want to go about your work, go under the radar, kind of get the things you want to do and just be ready for the season to kick off. So I think there's loads of things that are going to have the input of what kind of general fans are feeling at the minute.

Do you like that three wingbacks, two, two, one formation in principle, is it sustainable for you? Because it worked well at the end of last season as Forest stayed up, didn't it?

Yeah, listen, I think that formations are formations, you know what I mean? There's all these different kind of formations. Some people are going to like them, some people are not. You've got to basically look at your personnel and you've got to look at the group and what you've got and what's the best for this group to get results. And I think that if you looked at the last part of last season when Forest changed, is that Steve Cooper and what Steve Cooper has really been about in terms of probably not, but there was needs must at that time and you had to go and win games, you had to stay in the Premier League. I think now you've gained that and you've now got a second season. I think it's now the manager want to really put his kind of stamp on what he wants to do and the way he wants to play and not kind of change too much. I think you go away to the big teams and of course you have to kind of tweak your tactics and maybe formations for then gains. But I think this season, I think the manager will want to really kind of stamp on his own formation and the way he wants to play.

And sometimes as a manager, if it doesn't work, at least you've gone your way, do you know what I mean? And played how you want to play. And I think Steve Cooper want to do that this season.

Yeah, mikey will expand on that in the preseason preview, I think probably the style of play, but someone in the comments says wales online reporting josh Bowler is going to Cardiff on loan, which makes sense to get him some minutes. We'll do other transfer chat now, starting with Brennan. Mikey spurs are the latest team linked. Brentford are obviously still interested and we'll probably discuss why they're still interested a little bit. But I think one of the things I wanted to ask was do we need to find a resolution to this soon? Because we've seen that if you sell Brandon, you're going to need to replace him somehow, maybe not using all the money, but you don't want to run the clock down and only have a week to get someone in. So do we need to see a resolution to Brennan and similarly Dean Henderson now?

Yeah, I personally would like to see those two resolved sooner rather than later. My gut feel is that certainly Brennan is one that's probably going to drag on on and on and on, maybe even till deadline day, which is not good for us because he's one that will absolutely need to be replaced. There's very few people in our team that can do what he can do and that worries me a little bit. I guess on the flip side of that, if there are more than one team that's really interested in taking Brennan, then logic dictates that you might get a little bit of it's a cliche, but a bit of a bidding war, perhaps, which might drive the price up, which for us would be good, because, like I said, he would need to be replaced. I can't really see a like for like person coming in for him. You'd expect Elanga will probably start on the left, so I'm really struggling to see who takes that position, I think, for himself. Brennan, I've said consistently since I've been on this podcast for years that I think the sky's the limit for him. I think he can do whatever he wants to do.

I think he's exciting, he's young, he's quick, he's an international, what is he, 22? He's going to get better and better and better. And his first year in the Premier League, last year, his numbers for that second half the season were off the charts and he was brilliant for us. People always harp back to those last six or seven games where we tightened up and what I keep being told is, well, he wasn't even in the team, Mikey. Well he wasn't, but if you look at those 1st 30 games, the amount of goals and assists and important moments that he gave us to wrap that points tally up, I'm not saying he's irreplaceable, but he will absolutely need to be replaced. So for me, the quicker we can resolve that, either with a new contract or a statement of intent saying he's staying for the foreseeable future or he moves on and we use that money to get in a replacement and to maybe add one or two positions in the squad, the better. So there's that side and then for Dean Henderson as well. I feel really sorry for the guy because you keep hearing rumors and reading articles around that his injury is not really clearing up.

And if you guys remember, I think he was out for six weeks, wasn't he, is what it was told at the start. How long ago was that? So he's obviously struggling with that. I think the consensus is, regardless of whether we buy him or not, he's not going to be fit for the start of the season. Which then leads you to ask the question, well, are the goalkeepers we have comfortable and competent enough, and is there enough trust in a horvath or a hennessy or even the young lad, Shelby, who's done quite well to start the season for us? I'm not sure that that will be the case, so I'd really expect us to move on that goalkeeper position, probably even this week, be it Dean Henderson or I know Matt Turner's been linked, and a few others, a guy from the MLS, hence the shirt today. So I'd really expect us to kind of move on that position. But, yeah, let's sort Brennan out ASAP for him, for that lad's sake, and also for us, because we don't want to sell him and then not be able to replace and have to have three or four months where we've got no one on that right hand side.

It's a real big risk for me because he's an integral part of what we do, certainly at, you know, from a fan's perspective or from my head. Let's get it sorted ASAP. Matt.

I remember when the first rumor came in about Brentford, we all kind of scoffed at it, you won't go there, but they've obviously persisted and they normally suggest that there's a reason they've been given a signal that if you persist there's some interest, there's, a transfer could happen. So what's your read on it at the moment, Lewis, in terms of the position Forest are in, like Mikey said, we need it resolving quite quickly now. Are you in the same boat that Forrest need to make a decision either way or offer him a pay rise or something to resolve the matter now?

Yeah, I think if you look at it in terms of some kind of resolution to it a new deal, I don't think he signs a new deal, that's just my personal opinion. I feel that there's a lot more in it. Like you said, Brentford are coming back with, okay, it's Nottingham Forest's valuation, but it's still really big money, do you know what I mean? And they ain't going to do that if they're not feeling like there's light at the end of the tunnel. I feel that there's been a little bit of an interest from Tottenham, like our conversation that we had through Message. I don't see that from a Tottenham's point of view. I don't see how they will sell Harry Kane, who's an out and out striker and replace for 50 million. We're talking 50 million on a Brennan Johnson, not because Brennan Johnson is maybe not good enough. Tottenham but you look at Son, you look at Richarlison, you look at Kulif, they've got a lot of players of that same Ilk. They haven't got a number nine. So I think they wouldn't outlay so much of that Harry Kane money on a player that they don't really need to identity to replace Harry Kane.

But sometimes you look at it, that from income, that sometimes they'll try and generate interest. Like said, they'll generate interest from other clubs that will also then try and they'll think, well, if brentford will look and think, well, tottenham are coming, they might panic a little bit, and they might offer the money straight away. But then there's so many little things in behind that games and tricks that people use, and that's just football. And they try to generate interest, generate people kind of calling people's bluff, really. And at this point in time, Brentford are the only ones who have put a substantial bid in. But I think from a Nottingham Forest point of view, I feel that there's a chance that he will go. When you look at Alanga is he a type to look to replace Brennan, and he is that kind of type, he will play similar positions, the same as always. I always go back to the point that I made last year a few times, that the times that he was left out of them big games, they will have a massive effect and they would have had an effect. And sometimes people and fans might want to look at that and think that, but all players have egos and that's what it is.

And he will be looking and thinking, well, at the end of the day, I'm at times I've got this club points. I've kept this club at times in the Premier League with my goals. But when it's come to the big stuff, and when it's come down to it, the managers decided to go a different direction. Now where does that leave me? What does that say to me? And he'll look at it and then he'll look at is obviously you look at Gibbs White, who, let's be honest, plays pretty much every game, if he's out injured, he'll come straight back in. So I think that it's no surprise that Gibbs White is Steve Cooper's main attacking threat and the threat that he wants to kind of build around. And listen, Brennan and his camp will look at that and they'll look at it on an individual note and think that, well, he did a lot for the club last season. He scored a lot of goals and he got them key points. But when it came down to it, at the business end of the season, he wasn't involved. So that will have a massive effect on any opinion and any kind of conversation through the summer.

And I do think that something will happen, not sure. What club it will be, but I wouldn't be surprised if in two weeks time, he's at a different football club.

A couple of things on that, Mikey. If he does stay, he doesn't strike you as the kind of player who's going to be a problem, does he? I think we'd still get the best out of him. And secondly, it's interesting what Lewis says about him not being a number nine. I still wonder if he is our backup number nine ahead of Chris Woods because of the mobility that he brings. He's flawed in that position. But again, does that leave Forrest in a tricky position that we're so light if we sell Brennan?

I think it does, yeah. I actually think he will go as well, for the reasons that Lewis articulated, and I think he will go for a lot of money to one of the big clubs. You look at the transfers that are happening right now, there's not many. West Ham have got 100 million pounds, they haven't spent anything. Wolves are just selling all the players. The market isn't moving quite quick, but I think it's like domino's, isn't it? Once one goes, they'll all go, and I think he'll go too, but let's just say he doesn't. And your point, Matt? No, he's not one of the he's a Nottingham lad. He has worked his way up, he's played in pretty much all the divisions. He was brilliant for his last season, absolutely brilliant. And if the move doesn't materialize in this transfer window, he's not one of them that will go and soar come positive that will be the case and you'll still see the best of Brennan Johnson. If it doesn't happen, this it'd be interesting to see if it happens, and this is a conversation for further down the line, maybe in January, but obviously there's a lot of things depend on that.

Our league position, his appetite for a move, teams in for him, all that sort of stuff. But I think he'll go, if I'm honest, and if he does, I'd like to think it would happen soon for him, for that lad, so he can settle in, and also for us as well, so we can replace and we can formulate the squad and the team, how it needs to be for those starting games. And your last point, Matt, around, playing him up front? Yeah, weirdly enough, I've been thinking this as well. So you've got Chris Wood there. Of course, you've got a few other know Morgan played in that sort of false nine dropping back. But I think if you look at the start to our season, let's be honest, apart from those one or two home games, we're not going to get much of the ball in the first six or seven matches. Let's be honest. So I can see him potentially being either starting up front, because I'm not sure if Taro is injured. He didn't play the last game did he? He went off injured before that. So he could start up front, basically, because we're going to play on the transition and we're going to get 25 30% possession in those first six away games, let's be honest.

So I think he might be really useful. So if he does stay, yeah, I can kind of see him playing up front, away from home, and then maybe on the right when we're playing at home.

Yeah. And another thing to note is he's changed agents as well, which is often a sign. A move or a new contract often happens after that. And I suspect they might have been in his ear and saying, well, we can get you a move to another club and progress, you on. I mean, I really hope he stays. I see him as a bit of a grealish type. I've said this before, that you spend an extra season like he did at Villa and go to Man City, and I think Brennan could do that and I think Gibbs White could do that as well in a couple of years. So I do hope he stays. Lewis mikey made an interesting point about transfers in general. Not many teams in the Premier League have actually improved for me this summer, apart from, I think, like, Villa have done good business, but it is a slow market and it feels like teams are really struggling with FFP now, like Wolves and that and the Saudi Arabia influence. There's a bit of a split emerging, isn't there? And Forrest are in this group of, to me, this clutch of teams where it's very hard to get deals over the line at the moment isn't, I.

Think listen, I think that the Saudi Arabia kind of has just kind of thrown everything kind of off. These big clubs have now got this competition. These players mean, you look at Manchester City, look at Maurice, just easily out the door. These are players that are still in their prime, so they've got to look at it and think, did they expect that? Okay, did they expect it so quick? So they've now got to kind of change their stance and maybe look at their recruitment. So it will always happen. I think teams are just really assessing where they are and assessing this market, assessing what the Saudi involvement has done to the market, and that will always have a knock on effect. And I think once the kind of bigger clubs make their decisions and start maybe over the next two weeks, making a few more signings to replace the kind of people who've gone, then that will then have that filter effect down below. But like I said, it's just a tough market, really. I think that now that there's a lot of money, there's a lot of money to be involved, there's a lot of money to be asked for.

These transfers are big money, and sometimes even the Premier League clubs just haven't got it. And you maybe see a lot of loans with a view to buy or with an obligation to buy and all these kind of structured deals like that, more so than there's just the flat out transfer fees. But I think the next two weeks, like always, will just go a bit crazy towards the end. People panic, head Of Recruitment Chief Execs panic and stuff will start happening and it only needs kind of one or two kind of the right deals to move and then everything will kind of filter off that.

You want to come in on Brennan? Mikey, I was just typing a private message, but Lewis was too fast for me to type. Yeah, go on, what are you going to say about Brennan?

Yeah, there was another point I wanted to make and Lewis has just reminded me, so I think, try and choose my words carefully in terms of the money that we may get for Brennan. He's an academy, you know, we operate in a system of financial fair play and that money is, for want of a better phrase, pure profit. So there will become a cutoff point where Forrest will find it very difficult to turn down because of the fact that it will go straight to the bottom line, so to speak, and really help us and may alleviate some additional funds to get another central midfielder in, for example, or two goalkeepers instead of one. So, yes, we talk about Wood. Brennan want to go and I've read the comment, would he want to go to Brentford? I don't know why anyone wants to go there. What do you want to go to Brentford? What do you want to go to Tottenham? There's that point. But there's also what becomes an offer too good to turn down. And like I said, Brennan's in this very small group of players, that it would be, again, for want of a better phrase, pure profit, to cash in on him.

So that's something to consider. And that's why I said I think it will get done because I think one of those two points will be hit in the next week or two. So either we will say that offer is acceptable or Brennan will say, look, come on, I want to go to this club and press it on. I just can't see that not happening. That's what I wanted to say, Matt.

Yeah, I suppose the frustration there is you've probably got ten to 15 players outside the squad that are kicking their heels. You can sell them and you probably don't need to sell Brennan, but they're finding it hard to sell a few, although I think Brian Hader is going to Real Salt Lake for people who remember him. He's been learning the MLS for a year, so that's another one out the door. But it's players like Dennis and obviously Shelby and people like that that they do need to shift on really. The other thing I was going to say, we all said we want quality, not quantity, so I think we're going to have to be patient and probably up till deadline day to get touchwood a Sangare or a Tyler Adams or someone. But I didn't ask you about the goalkeeping situation, lewis and Henderson and stuff like that, and it's dragging on. Can you go into a season with Horvath or do you need to sign Henderson? Matt Turner? Mike, you mentioned the Chicago Fire, the MLS Keeper, New England Revolution. Jordy Petrovich is the other one who's been linked with do they need to get lewis is gone.

Okay? We've lost him. He'll come back. Do they have to get someone in, Mikey, and then I'll throw it to Lewis?

I think they do, personally. I think that as soon as they do, you might see not sure. I'm not even sure Hennessy's even fit. And I don't think you're going to start the season with a George Shelby, who looks really good, I must say. But I think he probably needs a loan. So I'll hand over to Lewis in a SEC. But, yeah, I genuinely think they'll move on the keeper this week as well. In fact, I think this week might be really interesting. Transfers in and out.

Yes. Just get your take on the goalkeeping situation, Lewis, before we lost you. Does it need sorting this week, like Mikey said?

Yeah. When we spoke before, I feel that the Henderson situation, I always kind of go back to I've mentioned it a few times. I thought that his interview last year when he left Man United, coming back to kind of difficult. There was no need for him to speak about Manchester United. In a way, he did, regardless what happened, because regardless, when you think about you're on loan, you've only got on loan. So they're your parent club, they're your football club and they have your full control. So I think that when you look at it now, I think at times and clubs do this, I think they're just playing. They may be at times, just being a bit awkward about stuff, about doing it. Because everyone knows that Henderson wants to come to Nottingham Forest and everyone knows that forest want Dean Henderson, but we're still two weeks away from the season starting and he hasn't really moved, so that tells you a lot that something's obviously going off in the background. The fact that Nottingham Forest are now entertaining, looking at other possibilities, doesn't look good on the Anderson front because there's a reason why they're doing that and kind of finding out other kind of valuations of keepers and other situations, as Mikey said previously, that he won't be fit for the start of the season.

That's correct, isn't it, Mikey? He's not going to be fit for the start of the yeah, I believe.

He'S I don't know whether he was ever going to be fit for the start of the season, but by all accounts he's still got those niggles Antima.

I think, yeah, I think he's going to miss the first three or four games. They probably need two keepers really because they've obviously got no faith in Hennessy or Horvath, so they're going to need to get two in again. It comes down to the money, I guess doesn't.

So that's so he's not going to be there for the start, he's not going to start the start of the season. Okay, so you're going to get him for the longer term, which is fine, but then obviously if you're not the current keepers in the building, if they're not for your fancy, then you're going to need to also get someone else in. But then you have that problem then of what kind of keepers you're looking at. Another kind of example story. If you're looking at Arsenal at the minute they're on about bringing in the keeper from Brentford, well then he's not coming in to just sit on the bench and be a number two. So then what does that do for Ramsdale? So I think, okay, you want to bring Anderson in as your number one, but then if you're going to also bring in another keeper, it's what that keeper is then going to come and do. Is that keeper again going to come in and sit on a bench and be happy to be that number two keepers already in the building that can do that. You have a keeper that's been out alone last season to a club that has got promoted at the championship.

So I think that if that's the case and what you're doing, then why don't you just deal from within, okay, go and get your number one, but you've already got keepers in there, you've got the young lad who's played through preseason and by all accounts and what I've seen, he's equipped himself very well. So I think you've got to look at it like that. But I think that this maybe signing two keepers for what will be substantial money, is it really necessary and is it money that can go elsewhere in other positions and that's obviously something that the manager and the football club have got to come to decision pretty quickly.

Yeah, that's the thing about Premier League keepers as well is not too many clubs where there isn't a huge golf between a number one and number two. I was thinking like, I guess Chelsea with Kepa and Mendy last season and Fraser Force is a decent number two at spurs, but generally you got that huge drop off and Forrest had that really with Henderson and Hennessy till Navak came in. It's difficult, isn't.

Of it's a one off position anyway, but the way the goalkeeper kind of works and the way the goalkeeper world works, it's like its own little kind of world inside football as well. There's a lot of players now that have a lot of agencies that only look after goalkeepers because it's a very structured little and it's a thing with goalkeepers, once one makes a move, it's then a massive domino effect on three or four clubs, then try and create that. But you have some goalkeepers that are perfectly happy with being a Number two, being a number Three and training like you said. And I know he's towards the end of the year, you look at Scott Carlson at Manchester City, for the last three or four years he's just been a Number three. He trains Monday to Friday, he helps with the team, he does warm ups, but he knows that he's never going to play. Now there's a lot of them kind of scenarios throughout the league, especially the Premier League because of the money that's involved and because of kind of homegrown, which also helps has to go into account. So I think there's a lot of goalkeepers that are willing to be number twos and very happy with that.

But I think they've got to find that what they can't do is go out and try and sign two number ones or two keepers that are both coming in thinking that they're going to be number one because it's just going to cause unrest and it's just not going to work. And like I've previously said, you've got free goalkeepers already in the building what maybe are happy to do that role and that keeps kind of more transfer fee for something true.

Just tidying up a few loose ends before we go then. Gary Brazil is doing the England setup I see as a kind of talent ID guy, making sure we don't lose players to other countries of dual nationalities. So congratulations to him. Reflects his good work at Forest. Obviously Jack Colback has gone to QPR on a free. I was a bit surprised by that. I didn't think he want to go to London because I guess he's rooted in the north and he's got young family, but good luck to him, good signing for them and I think they're trying to sign Steve Cook as well. So, yeah, he's obviously been a very good servant for us so hopefully Steve gets fixed up this summer as well. Another one on that long list of players that need a move. Any final words, Mikey, anything you want to add? Any other business?

Yeah, just a couple of things. Just want to say just a couple of quick shout outs, if that's okay. Just want to say thanks to Grace and Eden who sent us some really cool Forest stuff that they've made. Eden's a young lad, listens to this podcast. He's the only Forest fan in his school, so keep being different. Don't support my new Arsenal, Chelsea, anything like everybody does that, so stick to your roots. And I just wanted to say a shout out to a guy called Nick as well so I know I've not been on here for a few weeks, but in between, one of his friends, I think David reached out to me and Nick was on holiday and had a boating accident and lost his leg, which is awful. He's a huge forest fan. He's still in I think he's in Sardinia waiting for his second operation. So best wishes to you, mate. I know you and the rest of the lads listen to this and think he's hoping to be back for the Sheffield United game, which will be awesome. So I'll come and say hi and have a beer with you when you're back, mate.

So just thank you for those guys and best wishes to Nick. And my last point, Matt, was I was thinking around preseason as well, some of the players that just haven't appeared yet. Does anybody know what's happened to Lewis O'Brien? Because obviously he was on loan, wasn't he, in America? I've not seen any pictures of him. Has he got extended leave? Are we keeping him? Does anybody know? Matt, have you heard anything? Lewis?

I've been on holiday, so no, it's a weird one because he's probably match fit, so he doesn't really need a preseason. He's going to get a move, isn't he? So I don't know, I think they're trying to fix him up. It feels like he's on the outside. Lewis, any final words from you? Just in terms I assume you don't want to plug anything, but just in terms of where we are and how it's shaping up, because there seems to be Twitter's too easy to read, there seems to be a bit of a split, as ever, between it's all fine, everything's, we're all shaping up well, and then this kind of blind panic. We're miles off where we need to be. What's your assessment of where forests are at at the moment?

Yeah, listen, I think that it's just a time to be kind of calm, relaxed. Nothing started yet. We've got to get ready for the start of season. There's still two weeks to go, like I said. Okay, results wise, in a few of the games could have been a bit different yet, but it's preseason. I seem to think that it's a lot of the noise off the pitch, which is kind of creating a bit of negativity kind of on the pitch. And I think that if we didn't have the scrutiny around, is Johnson staying or going? If we didn't have the fact that everyone knows that we need a goalkeeper in the building as soon as possible, I think that what kind of brings a bit of it kind of takes that calmness away. I think the results and the games. Yes, listen, at times will be of like to won every game of preseason course, but preseason is preseason, it will always be the same. Just because you win games doesn't mean that you're going to start the season very well. If you lose games, doesn't mean that it's going to be the worst season ever.

I think the thing is, you got to try and get through it, get everyone through it, get everyone as fit as possible, get everyone ready for selection come the first game of the season, and just to see where the kind of squad is around that and how things change. But it's a long old season, as we know, and things can go up and down and 1 minute can look very bleak and the other full of optimism. So I think it's just a case of try and be supportive, try and be on board, kind of for the next two weeks of the season. Hopefully things can kind of get sorted out and become a little bit calmer off the pitch and be ready for the Arsenal game.

Yeah, true. Lee in the comments makes a good point about O'Brien. He's probably on holiday, like you said. Their season finished mid July, so he's probably got a week or two, but it doesn't give him much chance to get any kind of claim for Forest, but he probably does need a break, so, yes, true. And good words, Mikey, about Nick as well. Best wishes to him just for me. Finally plug the FPL league. Everyone who was in it last year is auto enrolled, but if you want to join, the code is three one, then lowercase PWRD. And it's our pinned tweet as well at Garabaldi red underscore on Twitter. If you want to join the league, just click on the link. There nothing else to say except me and Lewis were saying at the start before we recorded, kids'summer holidays are internably long. If you're a parent trying to sort out childcare and entertain your kids for six and a half weeks, if there's any parents watching this, I'm sure you'll feel the same as me when you're a kid, they just seem to go fly by in an instant. But when you're a parent trying to entertain kids for this long is an absolute nightmare.

So a shout out for all the parents out there and the people who are working in these summer camps, trying to make a few quid on the side as well, helping us out. So, yeah, thanks to everyone who has enjoyed this. Like I say, like and subscribe. If you can subscribe, you won't miss an episode. Give us a good review on itunes, et cetera, et cetera. We might be back later in the week. Well, we probably will do something and then we've got our full season preview this time next week with all our predictions, et cetera, et cetera. Mikey, thank you very much.

Thanks, Matt. My wife Lindsay, as you know, is a specialist Dyslexia teacher. She doesn't think they're long enough. These are 20 weeks, if she could so you'll upset her, by the way.

Matt well, it's better me to upset her than you to upset her, as it normally is, so that's fine, Lewis. Thank you very much.

No problem. Anytime.

Good man, good man. Much appreciated as ever. Always great to get your insight. And I say thanks very much for everyone who watched. Good to be back with you. Have a good few days and don't panic about preseason and we shall see you soon.