Hello. Welcome back to the Garibaldi Red podcast, a podcast brought to you by Nottinghamshire Live. I'm Max Hayes, your host, and as ever, joined by Forest Journalists, Sarah Clapsham from the post. Sarah, hello. How are you? Much better after last week and after the Fulham game, I'm sure.

Yeah, much better than Thursday morning after the Fulham game, certainly. Doing good. Thank you.

Good. We should mention as well, Sarah, that your microphone has been lost in the post, so you are still on the classic headphones. If this week couldn't get much worse with the Fulham performance, your microphone got lost in the post, hey?

Yeah, typical my own service, but hopefully we get there eventually and we get one delivered.

Yes, definitely. Also joining us is a man that has scored 32 goals for Forest, 102 appearances. He still remains the only player to have scored a hat-trick in the Premier League. All three divisions of the the FA Cup and his country too. That is a stat. Don't worry, it's not Dave Asbury. It's Rob, Ernshor. Robbie, good to see you. How are you?

I am excellent. I feel even better now I'm on this podcast. I've read big things.

Oh, great. It's all right. Robbie, does that stat often come up in conversation with people? Do you get people always asking you about that stat?

You missed one out, the League Cup. The League Cup as well. We can.

Add that one in. Surely when that stat comes up, people must be like, How on earth did you manage to do that? You're still the only player to ever do it.

Yeah, do you know what? That's the one thing that always comes up. My background, I've been all over the world, different leagues, different countries, and everywhere I go, that's the one thing that a lot of people still mention still now. And you know what? Over time, it's taken me back because I'm always like, Wow, I have to think about it because that's me. Really? It's that feeling. So it is special. I mean, it's amazing. And it is crazy the only person to ever do that. But it's also humbling as well. For me, it's the feeling of the work that I put in, if that makes sense. Because for me, it's like when I was a kid, I always take myself, I'm 12 years old, taking the ball in front of the garage, annoying the neighbors. And I'm that kid and I want to become a footballer. When I become a footballer, I want to leave something behind. I want to do something that some people can recognize as special. And when I fast forward and I hear that type of stuff, that takes me back to thinking, yeah, that's amazing because I did something. I was the work along the way for years and years and years.

It is worth it, and you get results at the end of it. So that's what I always think when people say that. So it is nice, it is special. It is a special stat because not just the score, but to score hat-tricks, because that's what I was trying to do all my career, all my years, anytime I'm on the pitch, I'm trying to score hat-tricks. So to do that is like the pinnacle of a forward player in my position.

Yeah, definitely. Also joining us is Forest fan Dave Asprey. Dave, I'm sorry I haven't really got much noted down for you as a bit of an intro. I'm just actually reading my notes here. Apologies Dave, but I think you're probably the best person to kick us off on what you thought the Forest Wolves game as well.

Well, first of all, let me just say I'm in quite a lot of pain, Max, at the moment. I've got a bad back. I've been practicing with Robbie at your goal celebrations and there's not a lot of room in here and I'm 59, didn't go to plan. If there's any wins in, it's because I'm not a very good Robbie, and sure, I'm going to do the Sarah Clapsham gold celebration next week. But Saturday, Saturday folks was a distinct improvement upon Wednesday night. Wednesday night was as bad possibly as it could get, but there was a definite sense of, I wouldn't say it was a full redemption, but there was a definite sense of taking a step forward from Wednesday night. I mean, Wednesday night to just backtrack a little, Forest actually thought it quite well, and but for a few inches Divock of Regan could have put us in front. But from the moment that Alex Iwobi scored, it was just the most anonymous performance you could ever imagine. So I went to Wolves and they've been playing well with a sense of trepidation. But I actually thought in the round, it's a really good point, a difficult place to go.

Manchester City have gone there and not come away with the point for perspective. And I thought, Forrest, they weren't brilliant, but they weren't abject like they've been on Wednesday night. And I thought they were, at least this time at Mollinion, as was not the case at Kraven Cotchford, there were performances to hang your hat on. There were certain individuals who gave a real good account of themselves. I just think with all of this at the moment, there is a sense of perspective needed. And I think that some of this hysteria has gone a little bit over the top. I mean, by this time last season we'd been done six at Manchester City, four at Leicester, five at Arsenal. We've had one real good stripe in this year, which was at Fulham. And we're outside the relegation zone, which is where we were last year. I do think even though it's a marginal gain, we're a better side than we were last year. It's not all, Rosie. There are a lot of people who want the manager changed. There are a lot of people who want the manager to be kept. And a diversity of views is healthy.

It's a sign of a civilized society, but we have to keep it within bounds of decency and respect. I think Saturday allowed us to move to a slightly less fraught setting, if you like, Max.

Yeah, Cooper made seven changes. Matt Turner, of course, returning to the starting 11. Nico, Williams, Czechuiaté, and Forest reverting to the 352 formation instead of the usual Cooper back four that we've seen recently. Sarah, watching from the press box, that must have just been, as Dave mentions, a huge improvement from Wednesday night.

It was night and day compared to Wednesday night. Completely different performance. I showed a lot of spirit, a lot of fight, a lot of character. Whereas on Wednesday, there was absolutely none of that. It was just a dreadful display. Saturday was a step in the right direction, could have won, had some really good chances, had Chiate, had Toffalo, scored a second, could have come away with three points. I think a draw was probably fair. It's just got to be a starting point. It's got to be a shift. I hope it is. I hope it's a sign that the mentality has changed because on Wednesday, it was just a complete and utter collapse. Obviously, that can hit players hard. Then it's about how they bounce back and how they respond. The ones who were picked for Saturday responded very well. I think there's a really big selection decision then to make for Friday night. Because players who started on Saturday put their hands up. Ryan Yates, I thought he did really well. Nico Williams was exceptional. There were some really good performances in there. He's given the manager a big decision for the Spurs game.

Yeah, it certainly is. Robbie, from I suppose, an outsider perspective, what have you made to Forest this season? Of course, we're in a little bit of a rut at the moment and need to get out of it quickly. But what did you make of the Wolves game and what you've made of Forest so far?

Well, to be honest, I was very optimistic at the beginning. I think, listen, it's been a tough week, of course, a tough few weeks, to be honest with you. What is it? Five out of seven, I think they've lost. So it's been a tough few weeks. But to be honest with you, I agree that I think we are a better team. Forest are a better team right now and this year than last year. So I think, especially the first few games, probably the first five or six games, I was thinking, I like what I'm seeing. There's a progression. Because always you want to be like, first season in the Premier League is tough. Lots going on. You're trying to find what works, what doesn't. The manager is trying to figure things out. Players are trying to figure things out. New signings that second year. And I like how competitive Forest have been this year. I like how aggressive that they are. And I think we've got a good squad as well. I think it's a very good squad. But I think there's just the consistency. We can't find the consistency. For example, you've gone lose five-nil at Fulham, then you bounce back against Wolves.

That is sums up for us to season pretty much this week. And that's where I think how difficult it has been. I just wonder, I was always watching and I always wondered, Steve Cooper always strikes me as he's still trying to figure out his best team, still trying to figure out what's the formula, how can I get these players to just be more consistent? And not just always just the signings and the players, but I just feel like just in his tactics as well. Sometimes he's played with the back three, sometimes he's played with the four. So there's always different things where I'm thinking he's still trying to figure things out. But listen, overall, I think good team. Can they stay up in the Premier League? Absolutely. Are they good enough? Yes. Good players, good squad? Yes, absolutely all those things. I think it might just take a little bit of time.

Robbie, just touching on that. As a player, how difficult is it when you've played and managers have constantly changed teams and maybe you were involved with the team or you weren't, you were often left out? How difficult is it to find that consistency for a manager? And how does that affect the players in the dressing room, I suppose, as well?

It is difficult because as a player, you're there, you're coming in. And what the people don't see is whether you're playing or not, you're in every day. We're all in every day. We're training. Everybody's pushing for the next game, the next couple of games, the next few weeks. Everybody's always working towards that. And then you're only really finding out maybe sometimes the day before, a couple of days before, an hour and a half before, who's actually playing and who's not playing? Who's going to be on the bench? Who's going to affect the game straight from the start? Who's going to be affecting it from the bench? All of those things. So as a player, it's always difficult in those situations. But at the same time, you're ready. And I think it's tough because what you're trying to do is give everything for the team, give everything and get results and do well. For example, four players, they're trying to score goals. They're trying to make the difference. Defenders, they're trying to get those clean sheets. So there's all these things going on, but it is very, very difficult. I always see it this way. It always comes back to stay in the team, play well enough as a player, play well enough that the manager says, Wow.

His level of training, his level of playing, I've got a minimum consider him to be on the bench, but I got to consider him to start. And I think that's the level for every player. And I think that's what you got to have. You got to have that mentality of, I want to be playing. I want to be playing every single week. But when I do play, I want the shirt. I want to play every single week. So that is the level. And it's been difficult. It has been difficult. I think it's also difficult for some of the players also, because what's happened is we've had a full dressing room, 20, 30 players in the dressing room, so many players. And what happens in that dressing room? Sometimes when you get too many players in the dressing room and so many bodies and so many options and someone playing, someone not playing, it is also disruptive to the player sometimes because that's why the Klops, the Pep Guardiola, they like to have 23, 24 players, and that includes two or three from the fringes, so to say. And then you can add up numbers, youth players, young players, ones that you can bring up from the academy and get a bit of training experience, be on the bench.

But your core is about 22 players. But I think that's the difficulty part from the last year and a half in this Premier League is that forest dressing room has been full. And I think what I would like to see is to start tapering that down to what is the core Forest squad as players. And decisions have to be made, no problem. But that's like any football club. But I think that is also difficult inside a dressing room to be able to juggle in so many players, so many people coming in and out. I think that's also very, very difficult.

It's a very interesting insight. Let's go to the fans. We put a call out on social media for your voice notes and videos. Charlie got in contact. And here's what Charlie had to say.

I'm really, really pleased after yesterday's result. I think won-win against walls was fantastic after a really terrible week. And I was really worried before the match that if we'd lost badly, two-nil, three-nil, or worse, if we hadn't put in a performance, that would be the end of Steve Cooper. And I think what's fantastic now is that we've got an opportunity on Friday to show Steve Cooper how much he's loved by the whole city of Nottingham. And that's a chance that we didn't know that we would get. I think just other positives from yesterday, I think, Neco Williams, he put in a shift. He was quick, he put his foot in and he was creative setting up that goal. I think, Toflo to him get his first goal in Premier League and he could have a second as well. I think that's really positive. And man, Garland, drifting past the midfield like it was a mid-ninet, Stank, Hollymore was a really beautiful moment. I think yesterday is a foundation. There's still big questions for our season. Are we back at five in defense again. Are we back in last season's style of play? I think right now we just need to just steady the ship and just build on our foundation and maybe those questions need to be answered in the future.

Friday night, I think it's going to be showing our love to Steve Cooper. I think the city ground is going to be electric. There's going to be so much support for the side. I think Brennan Johnson coming back is just going to add a bit of spice to the proceedings. I think Neco Williams against Brendan Johnson and all Wales battle, that's going to be fascinating to see. I'm really hopeful that we can get a result out of it. I'm really positive about that after yesterday and being on Friday, really.

Charlie, great video. Charlie is partially deaf as well. He comes from a family of deaf, Forest fans. Lovely to see. Dave, did you agree with everything he said there? He talks there about the pressure that Steve Cooper is under. But for me, watching the game in the away ends, I thought that the players played for Cooper, they showed much more fight, much more passion, desire. It looked to me like he picked a starting 11 that were really going to put their bodies on the line for him.

Absolutely, Max. There's been this talk about the dressing room being lost. Now, those of us outside the dressing room, all we do is make assumptions from distance. Anybody who thinks the dressing room is lost, might I draw their attention, to exhibit A, which was Harry Toffalo's post-match interview. Go and say to Harry Toffalo, That dressing room is lost, ain't it, Harry? And Harry will tell you a different story. And Harry himself is a sign that the dressing room has not been lost because his improvement is marked. He's been through his own personal issues. Harry Toffalo fronted up and faced those issues, and he was honest about them. And now Harry Toffalo, in my view, is becoming the most improved player in our squad, and he's a good spokesman. So if you think the dressing room is lost, just go and sit down and have a chat, a cup of tea with Harry Toffalo, and he'll tell you otherwise. And I think the point that was made on the voice note is right. Nico Williams set a tempo. He put his body on the line. He's not been in the sight for age. Now, if the dressing room is lost, would he have come in and played like that?

Now, he'd have sought and walked away. We're talking about a group of human beings. You're not going to get a complete unity of emotions and feelings. There's going to be one guy over here thinking one thing, another guy over there thinking a different thing. But what I saw on Saturday was I saw a group of human beings who knew themselves that Wednesday night was abject and not a reflection on what they want to do. And just as they did when they beat Villa, they came out and said to us, Look, we're as unhappy about the Luton fall off as you lot are, and they put in a shift against Villa. And they came out on Saturday at Molly knew and said, We're as unhappy about craving cottage as you lot are. And I thought they put in a show of unity and they battled hard against a side in better form than we've been. And I thought it was a credit to it. And the thing is, the supporters, it seemed to me, appreciated that. We're stretched along the whole length of Mollinu on that side of the ground. And certain Forest fans were in a different hemisphere to certain other Forest fans.

It was that far apart. But the feeling was I never heard a Cooper out chant. I had not seen a Cooper out banner. In fact, Max, I've not heard a Cooper out chanting either the city ground or an away ground this season. And I've not seen a Cooper out banner anywhere. And I've been to every game. Now, is it that the Cooper-ins are going to matches and the Cooper-outs are sitting at home? I don't know. Maybe they need a keyboard. I don't know. It's just that the truth of the matter is whether you're Steve Cooper in or Steve Cooper, both views are valid. If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. Where we're all unified is we all love Nottingham Forest Football Club. And what unifies us even more is we are none of us, Mr. Evangelos Marinakis, because we're all powerless. We're all sprouting hot air into the ether. If a decision is going to be made, it's going to be made by Mr. Marinakis and none of us. So we're all united in that. But I do think heading towards Friday night, it's a good game for us, actually, because I watched Tottenham yesterday and they're coming off the back of an excellent performance against a Champions League side.

And I'm always happier in a way when Forest are written off against Luton, Burnley, Brentford, Sheffield United. Everybody's like, This is in the bag. We only have to turn up to beat these. We play Aston Villa and we put in a performance. And I think Friday night, and like I said, Brennan's coming back, which has a little bit of nuance to it, then I'd be happy for Forest to be written off. In the days of Brian Clough, no team was written off more than Nottingham Forest, and it won a League Cups, European Cups. And it was this business of being the underdog. And I just think Friday night might be ideal for that. But yeah, it'd be interesting if those who want to see Cooper out, which again, is absolutely fine. They want to come and state their point of view, please do so. But I have yet to hear it. Now, my hearing is not great, as you know Matt. I'm partially deaf as well. I've got no right ear. So maybe I'm not a coherent judge. But all I see at Fulham, I was truly astonished. I stood there at half time feeling concussed.

And then I thought, This is going to go really nasty. And it didn't go nasty. It was almost like that. There were two Forest teams at Kraven cottage. The one on the field was distinctly average. The one in the stands was magnificent. And it's almost like they looked at the manager and thought, This guy is having a bad night. They are letting him down. And the affection and the compassion and the empathy for Steve Cooper from that end of the ground was incredible. If you think that Roy Hudson the same night got unbelievable from his crowd at Crystal Palace, it's like.

In a way.

It would be less complicated, Max. If everybody was, Let's get rid of Steve Cooper, then Evangelos Maranax could go ahead and make his decision, and that would be it. But the love that Steve Cooper is getting is making it slightly more difficult situation because it's like it is maybe going to be rolling on, rolling on, rolling on. So it's very strange, really. But it's testament to them. I mean, for me, I'll never forget Wembley. It was astonishing. I can't turn on a guy because I've still got that great memory. He's got a lot of credit in the bank. Results do have to improve. They have to be better. We haven't won for ages now, so it's not all rosy. But I just think, Tottenham... Because Tottenham will come thinking they've only got to turn up and win after what they did yesterday. That's probably a good time to catch them. But the City Ground will be, let's hope it's really hostile to Tottenham, not to our manager, but to Tottenham Hotspur, and that's the way to beat them.

This week really shows how special Forest fans are and how special Forest is as a football club. Because when you're... When you lost five nil at Fulham away and it's ugly, it's not great, all of those things. But the love for the manager and like we said, the compassion, the understanding, it's not been seen before. I think that understanding from, do you know what? We've lost five nil, but we're still together in this. I love that because that was a show of something very, very different because way too much. And I loved it because I see way too much from most football clubs and most fans to just turn toxic without thinking, Careless, doesn't matter. I just want to throw my anger out there. But the landing of where we've been, what's happening, and are we still together in this? Yes, we are. Let's show that. And I thought that was brilliant. I thought it was an amazing show of absolute trust, love, care, compassion, all of those things within the football because it's too easy to be toxic, but it's very hard and brilliant when you can just show that compassion in the moment and bring yourself together inside the moment.

So I thought it was brilliant for a fan base to just show their love. And you could see, Steve Cooper was pretty much apologizing from the heart, and he owned it. He pretty much just said, You know what? That's on us. That's on us as a manager, as a staff, as players, that's on us. And the fans were like, No problem. We're with you. Let's go again. Let's go again against Wolves. So I love that. And I wasn't at the Wolves game, but I believe it was the same again at the Wolves game, because that sets it for Friday night now against Tottenham. That sets it up because, at first, a very different way to at home. But at home and you're playing Spurs and it's Brennan Johnson's coming and all of those things, the story that will bring up this week. But, Forest, you know they're going to come out and go for it on Friday night. And that's what the football club is about. And that's what everybody wants to see.

Definitely. So really nice points there. Sarah, if we look back at that Wolves game and I think it stands out. We're running in the away end, jubilation when Toffalo headed it in, almost a little bit of disbelief and a certain song ran out in the away end that we won't repeat, but it went along the lines of How must you be Forrest a wining away? I think that was the shock. And then 10, 15 minutes later, it was typical for us, really. And inability to hold on to a lead, which we've seen numerous times this season, probably one of the issues that needs to be fixed urgently by Steve Cooper's results must have improved. It's 40 points, Sarah, dropped to winning position since we returned to the Premier League last year. It's 14 points already this season. If, of course, Steve Cooper is the man to turn this around, it's a difficult task to get the players to stand up to that and face that, Hang on a minute, this inability to hold on to leads obviously needs to be addressed quickly.

Yeah, it definitely does. Robbie will know more than any of us, I guess, that it can affect your mentality. If you start thinking, Oh, we've lost a lead however many times. Now we've gone in front. Oh, no, what's going to happen? Players are human beings. It's bound to affect them. It's about getting over that hurdle, I guess, and ensuring they have the right mentality and the right tools to cope with going in front and being able to hang on to it. It is something that needs to be looked at. I think Saturday was going back to basics. It was getting back to being hard to beat, being tight at the back, changing the formation because of that. It was a needs must, I think. I don't think it will go back to a four on Friday. I wouldn't be surprised if it stays the same formation because there's that base now to build on. I think a back four is Steve Cooper's preferred formation is what he wants for us to be a back four team. Maybe there is a feeling of trying to change it too quickly because of all the changes, because of the players that have come in over the summer, players like San Garay that are still adapting to the Premier League, that are still finding their feet.

Maybe it was done too quick. Maybe it's a case of having to go back, row back on things and get back to doing what Forrest did well last season to get over the line, which was being hard to beat. And sometimes it's needs must. Everybody wants to progress. Everybody wants to move forward and show development, but you have to pick up points first. Forrest have been doing that. They needed to address that. So it was taking a step back. Hopefully then it's getting back to how they were at the start of the season. Because the start of the season, as we mentioned right at the top of the podcast, was really positive. It was really encouraging. There were some really good performances in there. Didn't always get the right results, but the performances were something to be really positive about. I think what was quite alarming was how quickly it fell away. Even if you go back to the Meath of Bill again, seems like an age ago. It wasn't that long ago.

But it.

Dropped off so quickly from that that it just seemed that everything spiraled and everything became heightened. I think you forget what it was like a few months, weeks ago, where it was more positive and there was a lot of encouraging signs, it's been able to get back to that. I think the instability and the uncertainty around the managerial situation can't help. Players are going to know what's going on. They're going to know the manager is under pressure. They'll know that there's talk about his future. That's bound to play on their minds, and it's bound to affect how things are. Players are human beings. Steve Cooper is a human being. As professionals, you try to put it to one side, I'm sure, and you have to do that to an extent, but it must have an effect. It must be a distraction that you could do without. It must be something that you can't keep going, you can't keep continuing with that. You need some certainty and stability because that's how you progress.

Yeah, let's see what Forest fan Max had to say after the game. He sent his video to our WhatsApp number. Yeah, 1-1 draw away at Wolves, just a brilliant response after the total shambles of the Fulham game.

Cooper.

Played.

Players that he can trust, which.

Has been not many of the summer signings. San Garay and Domingez, Hang your heads in shame, and Quote, Yates, Nico Williams.

Harry.

Tofalo, Morgan Gibbs White in the middle were all brilliant, I thought, against Wolves.

Nico Williams was fantastic when he came on against Villa and almost top the rankings for the week in terms of interceptions.

And tackles and.

So on. So yeah, brilliant. I think, Steve Cooper in big game, under the lights, on the telly against Spurs, we can do it because Spurs, they're not all that.

And Allanga.

Mawn, gives white, playing the balls out to Allanga and Callum Hudson-O'Doy will tear them apart. Come on, you eds. Very optimistic there from Max. Maybe it's just a Max thing. Dave, I suppose when you think about Forrest on a whole this season and you think about the improvements that need to be made, but there's one thing, and you massively touched on it with the Cooper loving the away end, is that the expectations are different this season. We've touched on it in this podcast numerous times, and we spoke to Gemma when I spoke to Lisa and Callum as well last week. For that apparent reason, expectations are slightly different. Do you still think those expectations are a little high, Max? They're talking about, We need to turn this round and Cooper in. But where do you realistically think the Marinacas family would be hoping that Forest would be finishing this season, Dave?

Well, from my distance, Max, I believe Mr. Mari Nakis has Brighton and Hove Albion as his blueprint. That's what I think. I think he likes the idea that they get Thursday night European football. I think he gets the idea that they're up there cocking a snook at the big boys, if you like, at the top, playing really good football. But if we're going to compare Nottingham Forest to Brighton and Hove Albion, might I offer the fact that Brighton and Hove Albion and their first four seasons back in the Premier League finished 15th, 17th, 15th, and 16th. Brighton and Hove Albion paid their dues to get to where they are now. And when it happened, I think, under Graham Potter, it just came out of nowhere. It was like Brighton are muddling along near the bottom, and then all of a sudden, they blossom. They came out of their chrysalis, if you like. We are one and a bit seasons into our tenure in the Premier League, and it is going to take time. Me personally, and I'm probably going to get flat for it, I'm probably going to get flat for it. Even my face and my glasses and anything, bring it on, is that I just wanted to be a Premier League team again.

I want to be a Premier League team, us to be our family, my club to be a Premier League team for another season next season and then another season after that. And if it takes grit in your teeth and playing in a way that you don't really want to, then I'll be happy for that. I just want to be... The thing is, Forest, I think, have still got this slight identity crisis. They came up last year. They started by playing the open, free attack in football that they played in the championship in which had served them so well. And boy, did they get found out. It culminated in Leicester away, which was a pretty shabby performance. It was then followed by the Daorist of draws against Aston Villa. We're in a similar situation. We just followed a five-nil with a relatively daour drawer at Wolves. My view is that last season was a 38-game preseason, if you like. As Robbie has touched on, so many players in the door, so many players getting to know each other, let alone any style of play or any system. It's like you've got all these jigsaw pieces, but you have to work out how they fit together.

It takes time. It isn't FIFA. We can't just do it on a computer screen like that. It's not like that. And what I loved about Forest last year was people moaned about the low block. He's playing boring football. He's doing this, that and the other. It kept us up. The low block kept us up. The game against Arsenal, 18 % possession, which is a record low for any team in the Premier League. And a title contender couldn't work it out. They shuffle from side to side. We kept ourselves up on that day and we handed the title to Manchester City. And I thought, Steve, Cooper and Forest last year said, We want to play this rock and roll, sexy football. But they said, You know what? We've got to play this grinding, dour football to keep us up. And they went out of their character. And I think that is still going on now because, again, the turnover of players means that you can't get to an established, settled base. A settled side is the holy grain in football for any manager in any team. And Forest are struggling to get there. It's going to take time.

Me, I'd just give me 17th of... I'm not saying there is no cast-iron guarantee that because you stayed at Russia, you're then going to become like Crystal Palace or Brentford. It isn't going to happen. In fact, the beauty of football is, essentially, every team that's picked is a gamble. Every sign-in that's made is a gamble. You can throw 200 million pounds at a team and it's a gamble. Hell, there's a team of throwing half a billion at it and they've got 19 points and got beat at Goodison Park 2-0 yesterday. There are no cast-iron guarantees in football. Brian Cliford said, I always expect the unexpected in football, which tells you there are no certainties. And he was the greatest of them all. The only certainty in football is that he was the greatest manager of them all. So it is going to take some time. We're going to have to grit our teeth. We're going to have to go through some like awfulall performances, some bad days. But all being well, we'll get there. The thing is, mate, there's a lot of people getting fritty enough. Now if Forest go down, what happens? It won't change me.

I just go to matches. I'm still Forest. You know what I mean? Let's just stay in this division. My expectation is... I'm still working out whether I think the recruitment is good enough. Some of them have been excellent. I mean, Taewo is a perfect example of that. Marillo is an example of that. Some of the others need to start showing us, like Robbie said, it's consistency. A lot of hours they'll have a good game and you start to say, Well, they're a good player. Then they have three or four week and I think, Well, where are they now? You know what I mean? It's about this forest need to find a settled side, some consistency and a base to then take the next step. If it takes a while, it takes a while. It's not going to happen overnight.

Interesting point, Dave. Reports came out on Sunday morning that Cooper was going to be given another game against Tottenham, and that Marinacas was quite pleased of what he'd seen against Wolves. Robbie, in terms of when a manager comes under pressure as a player, I guess it can be difficult, especially if you've spent time with that manager over a few years and really built up a relationship with them. But in a way also, are you shocked that Cooper is under pressure this season, or can't you understand, given that it's won-win-13, I think it is now?

I can understand it. Listen, I believe that, and over time, my experiences have led for me to feel this more that you need the pressure. The pressure is not pressure as in negative. You need the pressure to be saying, No, no, this is the level. And I think it's a good pressure to be under. Is he under pressure? Yes. Of course, he's under pressure. You've got to get results. The team's got to win. All of those things, yes. But you need some level, some measurement for you to improve and exceed that. So listen, I think Steve Cooper is a fantastic manager. Should he be at Forrest? Yes, absolutely. I think he should be there. Is the pressure there for him to do better to get results? Yes, of course that's there. But I still think they should stick with him. And I thought it was brilliant last year when we were in this little period of struggling, results were bad, and it was murmurings of, Oh, is Steve Cooper? This is last game? Kind of like this last 10 days. Is this is last game? Maybe if he doesn't win this game, he's out. All of these things were said last year, and then the next week it was, Steve Cooper, a new deal.

It was almost like, whoa, a complete change. Actually, I thought that was brilliant because what it did is it settled everything down. It wiped away all the media pressure that we're saying and said, no, no, this is our guy. This is what we're going with, until further notice. And it almost calmed everything down around the football club, the media, the pressure, the so-called pressure, and said, Let's go for this season. We went and stayed up. Great. The last 10 days have been that way. I hate this fact or this idea of being, Oh, is this his last game? No, no, no. Give them 5, 6... Give them until end of January and say, Do you know what? You got till the end of January. Let's see how we do not... Is this his last game? No, let's see how he does up until the end of January. You've got a period of time. You've got the signings a few months later. And then let's say, okay, where are we at the end of January? And where's our season? How are we doing? Where are we in the league? Have we progressed? Have we had that time to find the next level?

Yes. Okay, great. Brilliant. Let's go again then. I don't like this. He has one game left. He has two games left. I think it's a poor assessment of what's happening and what it should be. So listen, it is very difficult. I remember actually, when I was at Forest, Colin Coldwood, that first season when I was there. Colin Coldwood is the manager, and he was under pressure. Of course, he was for a couple of months. Results were up and down. We just got promoted. I just signed. A couple of other players just signed as well. And going up until Christmas, it was just pressure-mounting, results weren't great. And you could feel the pressure as a player. And you do feel it. You feel the pressure as a player. Things are not quite running as smooth, too much negativity around. And Colin Calderwoods get sacked on Boxing Day, I believe. And as players, it was like, Oh, no. We're actually just progressing here. We're on the right path. And it is difficult for players. And one of the most difficult is then to just go, Bang, let's start again. Everybody start again. Sometimes that's also just as difficult.

It's not just, Oh, get a new manager and rip it up and start again and everything's rosy. It doesn't always happen that way. Sometimes for players as well, inside a dressing room, it's like, Oh, no, we have to start again. We've put in this body of work. Let's continue the progress. And listen, I think Forest have progressed from last year, so there is progress there.

But listen, there's always a level. There's always a level for football clubs and the owners upstairs to say, You have to win games. Of course, that's there. But listen, I think, Forest fans are making it very, very special for Steve Cooper, but also showing how good a football club can be, how supportive a fan base can be, because they like in what the fight that they're seeing. And it's not always about, as the manager lost the dressing room or not. Listen, that's not how it works. How it works is players, they come in, they turn up. The difference is the little details. And that is what we've seen from Forrest this year. And listen, I think it'll be fine.

Fingers crossed. Let's go over to another voice note. Ollie sent us his opinion on the game as well as asking if we should target anyone really in the January transfer window as well. Here's what he had to say. Hi, guys. I was at the game yesterday.

Much.

Better performance, even despite my initial reservations about the team announcement, given that we were lacking a striker. If a Langar had discred.

The ball to Gibbs White.

When he had acres of space in the middle. If Toffalo had scored his second header, and if Quijote had done better with his one-on-one. On a different day, we'd come away with three points, still fully behind Cooper.

What.

I'd be interested to know is, especially given yesterday and the fact that we didn't start with a striker and Wood came on and he didn't really do a great deal, what would you do in January? It looks like we're going to be shipping out a few defenders. Would you be targeting more strikers? And if so.

Any punts?

He did say punts. That's punts with a P about January transfer window. Sarah, I suppose I just wanted to clarify in case we got shouted on Twitter. Sarah, I just wanted to come to you with that question and more on the fact of Chris Wood. He's been a player that's been talked about for weeks, and I'm sure we'll get Robbie's view as being the striker. He came on, I mean, he didn't have long in the game, a good 10 minutes. Do you think Forest's main aim in January, whether Steve Cooper's here or not, it surely has to be a proven Premier League striker?

It has to be a striker. They need a striker, and I don't think you can get away from that. One year has been a huge, huge mess, and I think the problem at the minute is that Forest haven't found a way of playing without him. I think I saw a start the other day about how many wins they've managed when he has been in the team and when he hasn't, and the difference is so stark. It's incredible, really. And it just shows that over a long period of time, that problem still exists. It's still something that needs solving. Arigi hasn't really made much of an impact since coming in. I know most of his appearances have been as a sub, which probably doesn't help, but he hasn't really put his hand up to be the replacement, if you like, for one year while he's out, would I think, Forest haven't found a way of playing to his strengths. I think he can offer something. He can score important goals. We've already seen that, but it's getting the best out of him. I think the setup hasn't quite been right for that. Again, it's something that needs addressing because Tyro is still out.

He's still going to be out for a little while yet. But yeah, a striker is definitely needed. Somebody who can step up while Tyro is out, and somebody who can help shoulder that burden, somebody who can score goals. They're not easy to come by and they tend to be very expensive, which is a problem in January because every club is looking for a striker that can come in and get goals and everybody has FFP to contend with, so it's not going to be easy. But I think Forest definitely need... They need something. They need some attacking threat, I think.

Yeah, Robbie, I suppose as a striker, when you're going through a bad patch of form as Steve O'Carigay is, but I suppose more with Chris Wood, how do you get out of that? It must be a real challenge. And also, do you think in terms of January, Forrest targeting the striker, would there be anyone that you'd actually be thinking that you've watched in the Premier League that would be available perhaps to target?

Yes, I am officially getting fit and I'm coming back. I've had enough of this. I've had enough of this.

Let's do it.

I can't watch anymore.

Sign him up. Sign him.

Up, Ross-I can't watch... I can't watch people going through one-on-one I'm missing all the time.

I've had enough. Bring your boots, Robbie. Bring your boots Friday night, mate. Urge you all. Get warmed up. We're putting you on.

It's hard. Listen, you're going to come into January. Everybody wants a striker. Everybody wants to bring in a striker that scores. It is difficult. Can you find them? Yes. I think we mentioned Brighton. Brighton are brilliant because Brighton analyze what players and what qualities they're going to bring in based on what's there and what the idea of the manager is going to be, how they're going to bring in the best of them. I think you can bring the right player at the right price and they will score goals for you. We got Hudson, Adoy. We got Allange. We got Wood. A one year is out for a little bit. You'll be back at some point. I actually think where we're lacking or where we could do better. And I like our midfield players, but I think we can get more goals from midfield. Gibbs White, I think he can contribute more. I think be more effective. I think he's a talented player. He's impressed me since he's been at first. I think he can add goals. I see him as potentially somebody who can get 12-15 goals because he gets chances. He's creative, yes, all of those things.

But I think the next level for him is the challenge of, can I get 12-15 goals? Because that's what I would be putting on him. I'd be saying to him, Hey, I think your quality, you play good enough minutes. Let's get you 12-15 goals now. That's your challenge. Because then he takes it on board. But I think from our midfield players, Kyate going in, he's 1-1 the other day. Can we get more goals like that? Can we get more goals from midfield? Because I think the easiest thing is to always say, Oh, we need a striker. Well, of course we need a striker, of course. But I think everywhere else we can add more goals because this day and age, and to be honest, football is 20 years ago, 30 years ago now, yes, of course, you've got your core striker, he's going to get you goals or maybe he's missing. But you also always needed your midfielders to get goals the rest of the time. You always needed in a moment where you're 1-0 up, you then go 2-0 up because your midfield has gone through and they've created something, and then now you're 2-0 up and your midfield gets one gets five, one gets goals, the other one gets 12-15.

I think that's where we're lacking because I think it's way too much to just say only the striker gets you the 20 goals or the 15-20 goals and that's it. Well, guess what? It's a team sport. The rest of the team have got to contribute as well. The rest of the team in moments where it's 1-0, I've got to make it 2-0, 1-3-0. Or the wide players, especially, generally, we've always got generally the one striker and two wide players who are very attacking, it's got to be from those moments. So that's why I liked Toffalo when he scored the other day because it was him saying, Well, I'll go and get the goal. I'll go and arrive in the box and help my striker, help my midfield, help the goal scoring, because it was a moment to take responsibility. So I love that. I think midfield, especially, is where I think we can do better as well. And the other thing is with with Forest, being in the Premier League and watching Premier League every single week, watching the top teams, the thing that we can do better with is some of the players that are there also, sometimes we need to control the game.

Sometimes we just need to just possess the ball, not constantly, Oh, we've got the ball, let's go and go as fast as possible. Because the top teams don't do that. The top teams, even the Liverpool with their rock and roll football, they don't always just go and attack. At some point they say, Let's control it. Let's get a little breather. Let's get a little breather for a minute. Because the hardest thing, the thing that players make mistakes on is when they run up here, then run back, then they've gone to tackle here, then they're shuffling across and then mistake happened, goal. That's how normally things happen. Sometimes you've got to be, You were attacked. No, no, let's control the ball here. Let's move a side to.

Say.

Okay, let's go full-time as an hour because now it's open. Sometimes in forest, especially this year, they've been vulnerable there when they're not controlling control in the game, as well as, of course, when it's right, it's a 4v3, go. When it's 5v4 or whatever and it's a transition, corner kick, whatever, ball drops down and you can go, of course, go. But there's the other times, the rest of the game where you need to just have more control. And then your midfielder pops up. Earlier in the season when Hudson and a dice called that Screamer, what game was that? Was that Burnley? Was it? When he bet that in the top corner from the left-hand side, that was a moment where we were just... We countered, we threatened, but we analyze the situation. Wait, wait, wait. And then all of a sudden, and he comes in and puts it in the top corner.

So.

It's moments like that I think Forrest can do better. Listen, I think for me, if I was in January, I would be analyzing three players, three positions. A defender, one defender, I think a midfielder from midfield that can control the game. I mean, technically very good. Technically, not like tackling and then sometimes keep possession. But a player that says, No, give me the ball, control it, and almost like be that quarterback within the team and say, Hold. Hold. Wait, wait, wait. It's not the right time. Because Rodri does that brilliantly for Man City. Why does he play every single minute of every game? Because he understands. He's so smart. But also you give him the ball, he's not losing it. He's controlling the tempo and the speed and what's happening, and then they can be the top team. I think a central midfielder and I think we can do that. And of course, listen, if we can pick up a striker, yes, we pick up a striker. But I'd actually like the Hudson and the Doys to say, Give me that shirt. I'd love to see Wood say, I'm going to score three and four games, three and five games.

Give me the shirt. Because we've got some strikers there as well. And I think that's where we can improve a little.

Bit as well. Yeah, certainly an interesting take, Dave shaking your head massively there. So obviously agreeing.

With what- I tell them agreement. The man speaks very sad.

Yes. Perhaps a player, Sarah, that Forest have lacked, Brennan Johnson, since he's obviously gone to Tottenham talking of him, he returns to the city ground on Friday night. I won't say must win in case Gemmo comes for me, but what I will say is that it's another big game under the lights. It's on the TV cameras in front of an audience. This will be a game where, of course, Tottenham are and they're a great side with Postercoughlow this season. But it will be a game that Forest will be hoping at least to draw. Possibly three points would be an incredible result. But a game, Sarah, that could maybe really start to turn this rot around and keep Steve Cooper in a job.

I hope so. I hope it's that Saturday proves to be a turning point and Friday is then a chance to build on it. Forest do seem to raise their game when the big clubs come to town. We saw that a few times last season when there's an incredible atmosphere and the city ground is really rocking. It can be a really special place. You just hope that Friday night is another one of those games. Huge game, big opportunity, big chance for some players.

It has the.

Makings have been a really tasty one, particularly with Brennan coming back as well and everything that adds context to around the game. It's a really exciting one, I think, to look forward to.

Definitely. I think that finishes us nicely. We could talk for hours. Dave, thank you very much for your time. Really appreciate your comments this morning.

Thank you, Matt. Pleasure. Lovely to see you, Sarah. Lovely to see you, Rob. Can I just say as well, mate? Big up to all the Gary, Baldy, Redd crew that came before us. They did wonderful works on Matt, Greg, Mikey, Temp, Fletch, Gary Bertals, all those. They set us up really, really nicely. So a lot of gratitude to them for the work they did and wish them all the best in their new ventures. Definitely. Thank you for having us on. Definitely. Squeeze between two Legends here, Max. It's a nice way. It's a happy Monday. A happy Monday, mate.

Sarah, thanks for coming on. Thanks for putting up with Dave.

I'm squeezed next to three Legends.

Oh.

Babe.

Robbie, thank you for coming on. Hopefully, your expectations lived up to what you thought the podcast was going to be.

Oh, it exceeded all expectations. Brilliant. I mean, brilliant. That's just- No, honestly, really, really good. A pleasure to be on. Very, very nice. Sometimes it's just nice to talk, Forrest, and just talk what you think, what we would like, personal opinions. I like that. I enjoyed it. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Definitely. You are most welcome. That is one thing that we all talk about. Forrest, I will be back on Thursday morning talking a Spurs preview. We'll be back next week for our main episode as well. Me and Sarah will be back with a few new guests. Remember to follow us and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and on YouTube. Drop us a like and subscribe on YouTube as well. And we will see you next time. Fingers crossed on Friday through Good Forest Performance. We'll see you soon. See you then. Thanks.