Hello.

Welcome to Caribond Red as Notting Forrest threw away at least a point to lose 3-2 to West Ham United yesterday. Three goals gifted, two conceded from corners, and one angry, Steve Cooper, as it was a case of what should have been for the Reds. Joining to discuss all that, first of all, is Reds fan Michael Temple. Tempst, good morning. How are you?

Good morning, chat. It's feeling good, thanks.

Good, good. And returning to the show with no nasty introduction for once in a while.

God, you've changed.

And no Ryan, Ryland, Clark, filter either. David Putton looking and sounding like David Putton.

I'll get dead close that this is going to scare everyone now. No dying this. I mean, my nostrils are a different debate altogether, but yes. Anyway. Good morning, everyone. Sorry about that.

Good morning. How are you?

I'm good. I'm good. I've enjoyed Tim saying he's good, he's balanced, he's putting things in perspective, not too down, not too high. Hopefully that's the Bible going for this Monday morning.

It is. It is. That was going to be my update.

The defending was terrible.

Well, I did say last week, never too high, never too low. So that's a theme. But yeah, there was a lot wrong with yesterday, certainly. I mean, just kick us off, Temp, with the overall thoughts of the emotions coming off the game.

The only thing I'm mad about is it took us seven minutes and conceding a goal to realize that we could live with them, and they were no League form whatsoever. And we needed to go through that process to realize, Hang on a minute, we can cope with this. And then you saw a massive period in the game rest of the first half, start the second half where we look composed and players look dangerous. And we made a really good account of ourselves. But the reality is if you make a mistake like, doDomingez did in that part of the pitch, and it gets punished by the quality of the players that you find yourself up against every week. But I've left that game thinking that we probably are in that mid-table battle now with teams like West Ham, if we can cut out those mistakes that get punished as it rightly was by Pankytar in the first instance, but so much be proud of for the rest of the first half, start of the second, but those frailties and lapses around the three goals have really cost us.

I should say get well soon, Greg. Greg was supposed to join us, but he had to drop out, hence the three-man panel. But we used to do those all the time, and I'm sure we'll put out some good stuff for you today. Perhaps after the match, I did the press conference. I don't normally do games, but I did this one and Cooper was pretty angry. A bit out of character for him to be visibly so annoyed at the manner of the goals conceded, and it was the set pieces. I know it's so obvious, but to concede two goals from set pieces like they did, you can't win many games doing that, can you?

No, I think that's where Steve's anger comes from. As you know, Matt, more than anyone talk to him with the regularity that you do, very mild-mannered, very composed, and that doesn't belie any lack of passion for the job because we know he is absolutely a forest man through and through. But it's hard enough to get near a point in the Premier League, let alone three without aiding and abeting the opposition. The Domingas won, having done that a fair few times, your heart sinks. Because as you see him play that ball tentatively, almost too relaxed, trying to chip it over into the wider part of the pitch and it gets cut out, you probably get away with that in the championship, don't you? You don't in the Premier League and against a team such as that, which has got a lot of good creative players, it was laid on the plate. And then the manner of the set pieces, Jared's a very, very good player. You give a very good player three or four yards of space in the six yard box, then you're going to find yourself with a huge problem. And then there were warning signs come near the end of the game, wasn't there?

Such a hit in the bar and then ultimately finding himself in a position where West Ham were coming away with all three points. That's why he was furious because so much to like going into the game, so much to like about the Villa game, so much to be very, very proud of, clean sheets, potent going forward, undone by the type of performance that was thrown forward against West Ham. There was an article that I read with regards to question in the lack of desire. I don't think it was the desire necessarily of getting around the pitch. It's more to do with the desire to keep the ball at the back of your net, to do with marking your man, to do with switching on wonderful goal that put Forrest ahead. I've seen a comment there about potentially the reaction to that goal and the throwing of emotion around that maybe you got to get your head back in the game. It's a cliché, isn't it? You're never more vulnerable than when you've just scored a goal. And that was absolutely that. And in Premier League terms, in the sense of the responsibility taken with the set pieces, it's unforgivable, really.

There's a lot to unpack their attempts, and we'll do it as we go along. But is the general frustration that this season we look a much better team, a much more accomplished team, but we're not doing basics of defending, like loot and players will put their bodies on the line. Sheffield United will, even if they're flawed teams, but if we're gifting goals, then we're gifting points and we're not making the progress that we can be.

Yeah, that's absolutely the case, isn't it? I think you can look at that table in two ways. You can say the bottom six are the most recently promoted six and are struggling to plug that gap. Or if you look really harshly at the games that we've played, you can say that our own mistakes have cost us and we're 4-6 points behind where we should be. There's probably a little bit to learn from West Ham because I think their approach to the game yesterday, not in general the season, but yesterday was championship style, on the break, flood the box. Big lads on trying to get an advantage from set pieces. And the difference was James Ward Prowse delivery is bang on the money every single time. And the reason I highlight that is because ours wasn't. And we can't expect to translate positive territory, corners, free kicks in and around the box into goals if we're not going to improve the quality of our delivery and the man in which we gain an advantage in the box. Several instances yesterday to the question that you asked, if that's a microcosm of the season, what went wrong?

We didn't defend our set pieces nearly well enough. We weren't disguising enough of the fact of the man which we were trying to put them off in the box, and players who shouldn't be scoring headers found themselves on the end of world-class set piece delivery. You could analyze a couple of those instances. There was so much wrestling going off in the box. If they had come into play at any point, you could have made three or four cases for the penalties against us. I think it's something we need to address quickly because you can't get on the front foot and become the team we want to play with the ball if we're going to be back concerned about our weaknesses from corners and free kicks. It was all too apparent yesterday.

Just to jump in there, Matt, sorry. We do understand the approach, obviously, of what Steve wants from the side. And again, I'm not laying this all firmly at the feet of Domingo's by any stretch of imagination. Obviously, by the fact that he didn't appear for the second half, you know what Steve's take on his performance was. But it's these very, very tight, fine margins that can rock a team. Now, the fortitude of a team and the strength of character comes from reacting to those situations, which you get back on level terms and it's almost like, Well, we've canceled out that mistake. Right, lads? Collectively, we go again. Next set piece, pick up X, Y and Z, all the fundamentals and the basics. But it's a tough thing for a manager to try and legislate for a mistake such as that so early in the game. A graphic popped up on screen about the amount of goals that Forrest score in the first few minutes of a game, which suggests that they do start games brightly. Ironically, that went against them in that particular instance, and suddenly they're on the back foot. So the reaction to it, I think, as the game meandered away from Forrest or the let it get away from them towards the back end of the second half is something that has enraged the manager and has given them the reason, as you say Matt, to come out and actually say, Well, I'm not happy, and I'm not happy because of X, Y, and Z, which I think is good because it gets it out there, but also blows those cobwebs away.

The players are under no illusions that if they go away for an International Break and come back, what the next port of call is? The next port of call is the next game has to have a clean sheet in it, or we get undone by a piece of magic or something that is truly unstoppable. But there is no real excuse. I used the word unforgivable just a minute ago. I meant in football in terms within a 90-minute spell, but there is no excuse for players not knowing who to pick up. There is no excuse for not being tight enough to your man. And they might point to the fact, Well, the AAR is on this, and I might give away that rubbish. Absolutely rubbish. Defend properly, which in itself is a massive concept. Defend properly because it's part of your job as a professional footballer. Are you picking up? Wasted in the six-yard box? Don't give away needless free kicks and corners. If you know someone's that good on the ball, you try everything to stay away from that particular area of the pitch because James Ward Prowse, his delivery is up there with the very best in the Premier League, but then if you're not marking, it makes him even better.

Let's talk about defensive set pieces before attacking one time because there's so many more gives like comments in the comments. It's interesting. We'll get to that. Just unpacking the goals, Pruts. The first one, you were saying you think it was probably Danilo that was meant to be marking Bowen, which is an interesting match in itself.

Yeah, but only by virtue of the fact that he appeared to be the closest player to Bowen as the ball was whipped in. The marking was that poor that by the time he headed it, it could have been one of four players that were meant to be somewhere near him. Now, having seen for us in the way that they set up and whether it's zone-level or man-marking, you've still got to take responsibility. Because it was virtually inside the six-yard box, which again, shows a great delivery that it's whipped in at that pace with that precision. But there should be enough bodies in there for someone to take responsibility. And if you are in that position, then it is panic stations. If you're closest to the ball, you go and edit, you leave the person that you're with. If you think you can go in the header, you go and try and do it. But leaving him with that particular space, as he was growing into the game, I thought, Jared bone, wasn't he? Just doesn't reflect well on who was meant to be picking him up and who organizes that particular setup because it's obviously done prematch half-time.

And then in the game, it's very much the responsibility of the player, very much their job to know what on earth they're doing. And if you're a fan watching that, you are left scratching head thinking, Well, it's pretty obvious where the ball is going to go.

True. There are over 500 people watching after 10 minutes, which is great. Do give us a like and subscribe. Giant new animation product. Capway. Yeah, that's just the software that.

I used. Is it? That's why I'm right. That's why I watch when you don't pay for the premium version. Has he gone for the Tuesday? I've been trying toin there. He's cutting corners, David, isn't he?

He's cutting corners. Yeah. Well, the company I work for is not paying for it, definitely.

Oh, and don't bite the hand that feeds you, Matt. Christ, Matt.

Prud said their attempts couldn't really tell who was marking for the second goal. For the third goal, it was definitely the same. I think it was meant to be goal, but Thomas Suchex, probably their best head of a ball, can't be.

Getting that much to- And about seven foot tall.

Yeah.

It's pretty obvious. Again, I sound condescending when I'm saying this, but it's hard to miss.

It's a Sunday.

Morning shout, isn't it? Even then, Forrest played him in before that to hit the bar. It was a perfect header from Aena, wasn't it? Layed on a plate to him. He should have scored that one.

Sunday morning shout, big on big, lads. And he definitely is a day to-day Bowen, perhaps less so. There's not quite enough respect for James Ward-Prowse, who's one direct free kick away from surpassing David Beckham in the Premier League and rarely does anything but whip it with extreme dip, power, accuracy, but I'll just put that one to bed. I would want an English football taking a corner over James Ward-Prowse. Do you carry him a bit in midfield? No, not really. He's tidy enough, isn't he? But in and around the box from corners, he's worth his weight. I think there was a start of match today too last night. He's out on his own on assists from set pieces over the last two years. I think he's 10 ahead of anybody else in English football. I don't know why I'm pumping James Ward-Prowse's tries on a Forest podcast. Anyway, what was the question? What was the question?

The question was how good is James Ward-Prowse?

Yeah, not marking Thomas Suchak. Suchak is a threat from set pieces. We had the warning shot, as Prit said, and we let him get ahead of us. It was a great finish from him, but yeah, he stole a match on defenders who should have been putting on a rear guard action at that point. If it was Willy, Bolly, marking him, he's the guy that I like in these situations. I think rear guard action backs against the wall. He wins his heads and tackles. He didn't yesterday; the Merilloow injury was a blow. I think since the warrent incident, Cooper's been a bit more reluctant to introduce defensive substitutions. He had to on this occasion. Well, he doesn't usually let us down, but Suchak stole a march and nicked it to death because I think all things considered a draw would have been a positive result from Forrest on the balance of 90 minutes.

I mean, on online, Cooper is getting some blame for we can't keep doing it, we can't keep proceeding set pieces. Obviously, players are coached in the week, but there has to be a bigger element of personal responsibility from the players, doesn't there? To do their jobs, as the manager said.

Completely. If you just take that game in isolation, obviously the frustration comes in a broader sense of seeing it over the course of a season because then the finger only gets pointed in one place over a season. It's got to be the manager's responsibility because he's the boss. But in that game, like I said, in isolation, it's unfathomable to kindof work out why those players aren't marshaled correctly. Like I said, the Domingues one is a mistake that any player can make because you try something and then your stomach immediately stinks because you realize, out of everything that I could have possibly done, that was obviously the worst choice, and then it leads to a goal. But the ability to... And a lot of football is reactive, but the ability to get into a situation where you can proactively work out who you're going to mark and get your body right and the ball's coming in, you've got your man here. I'm not saying you start grappling because then you're just going to get a forest player resting someone to the ground and then there's a penalty and that's a different thing altogether. But there's a lot you can put in your control in that particular situation.

Yes, we talked about what process free kicks. I mean, terms of length is obviously a massive fan, but that sense of what it is to see that threat coming and then to try and mitigate that, the players absolutely have to take responsibility for that. You talk about Bolly as well in that particular situation where changes are made to try and shore things up. Steve said he would have been disappointed with a point in that game. So to come away with nothing shows what he thought and where he thought the players had got to. The second goal is, I don't know the word stunning. That's way too over the top. The second goal is a thing of beauty. It's a wonderful sweeping, attacking play, batch of play from Forrest. The type of stuff that with the skill, with the clinical nature of it, and the ability to get forward in numbers and at pace is something that thrills fans home or away, isn't it? And it was a really potentially pivotal moment in that game, like I said. And I'm not one for dialing down reactions and celebrations. Var is absolutely ringing the neck of that type of stuff.

The fact that they've gone over and celebrated with a traveling fan, yeah, I absolutely don't mind that because what's the point otherwise? If you're not going to celebrate great goals like that and it's like... But the other side of it is then get your head back in the game. Quickly, fellas, whistle is going to go. The next five minutes, the next two minutes are going to be so important for this game that you've got to do absolutely everything. And just in those moments, that's not the manager's fault. In theory, he's got the right people in to manage those situations at the right time. And they just collectively didn't do that.

Quick word on the celebration. He's whipped his job off and he's shredded to the bone like a.

Young man. That is a frightening set of abs, isn't it? That's a temp special.

But he's whipped his GPS off. So the last three kilometers that he ran didn't count. So he'll be getting a cane in from the fitness coach this morning. I don't think they'll mine the yellow card. I just think they'll be annoyed that they've lost 35 minutes of data from Anthony Allenga. The point I wanted to make on Anthony Allenga is you think of his highlights this season, that finish, the break for the Tawo goal against Arsenal, the finish against Chelsea. He's got it within him to be a very special player, probably in that bracket of 10-15 goals and assists combined per season if he wants to be. The pace is electric. The way that he stands defenders up, particularly fallbacks and gets past them, had his man on a yellow card pretty early on and then terrorized him for parts of the game. He also has it in him to be wasteful and extremely promising positions. And I just hope that Steve Cooper can get the best out of him because a confident, consistent, Anthony Langer can be a real weapon for us. There's no doubt in his fitness. There's no doubt in his pace, it's electric, and moments of this season have shown the flashes of what he can be.

I hope he can just hone that and be slightly more consistent because then he'll be a real player for us.

He did play very well. It was funny, Kufahl or Sufahl, sorry, got the state man in the match in the stadium, which I thought was ridiculous because he had him on the pitch. Did he?

Why?

I know from the Hammers fans. I guess it was the corporate ones who picked it. Yeah, I didn't see that. I don't mind him taking the shelf celebrate. I would have mind if he got a second yellow and got sent off. That's when you mind it. It's more of a mentality thing, like Pruts has said, switch back on, deal with the next ball from the restart and don't concede a corner. I think that was the weakness. Just on corners then and set pieces. I think I read an article at the weekend where it's not like less than three % of corners end up in goals and it was a higher ratio for us at the weekend. But on our.

Set pieces- In what sense? Across the Premier League?

Yeah, in a season across the Premier League. Yeah.

Less than three %... Say that again. I'm crack with that. Say that again.

Three times out of every hundred, someone will score a goal from a corner in the Premier League.

I should say, actually, that's from a corner whipped in straight away. Short corners. It was an article about dying things in football, and short corners, it's a slightly higher ratio because you see more prevalence of short corners, fewer long range shots. Everything's so numbers-driven now. That was what I was saying. But the point is, our ratio is probably lower than that. So Morgan gives a lotis taking absolute pelters for the quality of his free kicks. First question is, Temps, are they that bad?

You know what? It's about outcome, isn't it? We have to say time for someone else to have a try. Being a set piece taker in a team is a huge responsibility. There's going to be frustration from center-halves if they make an eight-yard dash to be up for a corner that sells over their heads. What's going wrong with Gibbs, White's delivery? Is it him? Is it the movement in the box? I'm not sure. He's certainly not as consistent as James Ward Prowse's ding, ding, ding, ding, ding on the delivery, but neither is there any separation between the big lads and their markers to convert them into goals. I don't know. I do always like the in-swinger. The technique that Premier League players have with out-of-one corners that's still learning the six-yard box is incredible to me. You don't see that at lower level. So it gives... White is taking everything from both sides. Toffalo's delivery is reputedly very strong. He's obviously got a bit of a wand of a left peg. So I'm a bit of a traditionalist. I'd like to see the in-swinger and maybe let Toffalo take the right-wing corneron us. But yeah, Gibbs White for me seems to have a bit of a monopoly on them, and they're not being converted into goals.

You mentioned the Toffalo one there. Wonderful ball in early on, which brought a great save from the goalkeeper, wasn't it? Was it Tywells header, was it?

It was, yeah.

Really good save from that. Great header. Very, very good save as well. And there was almost no thought with that with Harry, ball came back, just faded it in. Wonderful ball in. And again, I'm not saying that you then fall down the rabbit hole of what if, if that had gone in, if you know what I mean? It all gets a bit hypothetical then.

How good is that technique, though, Prux? To take a little bit of this thing out of it. That's a serious technique.

Yeah, I don't know, maybe there's a school of thought there that you then get yourself in position with corners and free kicks. The thing with Morgan is obviously is undoubtedly a very technically gifted footballer. There's a real game to him that I, as a journeyman, clogger, absolutely respect. Give me the ball, give me the ball, give me the ball, take places. I'll try stuff. There was one instance, I think there was a West Ham player down, whether it was Pauquette that had been fore-armed smashed in the face by somebody's finger, which sent him down like a platoon.

Then the ball came to Morgan and there was nobody around him and he backhealed it on a 1-2 and it went about three or four yards in front of its intended target, which in those particular instances, as a teammate and then as a fan, you are going, There's just no need for that. It's not in a wagling your finger, like do it properly. The backfield does nothing. It doesn't take anyone out of the game, doesn't take anyone by surprise, barron, his teammate who goes, Well, can't just pass it to me, he's at a rolling out of play. It's frivolity for frivolity's sake, I think. Now, taking the rough with the smooth of what Morgan can provide, I think the levels, and again, when you talk about comments, Matt, and people's reaction to it, I think he's held the platform that he's held on because of the creative force that he can be, means that probably, as is always the case with the place, which is that more fingers get pointed. You see more of him trying to do things with the ball. Therefore, you get more of a picture potentially about not just what he can do, but what he's not doing.

So if he's taking all the set pieces and they're all crap, then you're going, Oh, it's rubbish. But if no one else is actually stepping up to take the set pieces, then the odds are stacked against him for being able to show, Well, someone else needs to come and do it. Now, again, that dovetails into what a manager wants from his team. If he's saying that Morgan's struggling, get someone else set pieces. The other question then becomes you look through the squad, who's the next off the rank to be able to do that.

Yeah, it would be tough, wouldn't it? I suppose. It's interesting, Thames, you dropped in the group about Morgan still leads the team in shots in the box, chance creation, all the areas you'd want him to lead us. There is an element of Rough with smooth, isn't there as well?

Again, like the Elanger point, I think he could hone it, and he could be everything Forrest want him to be. He doesn't need to try Hollywood flicks and tricks every time. Seeing a pass and being able to execute it is enough a lot of the time. For all of Messi's dribbling and skill, he has this proprioception and ability to see things on a pitch at ground level that we don't even see on a broadcast camera. But yeah, the stat was pumped by Sky before they gave put up here, actually. So Morgan Gibbs White in our team is number one for shots, dribbles, through balls, touches, touches in the opposition box, chances created, distance run, jewels won, passes in the opposition half, and possession won. So there's a player there, and I know his place has been up for debate, and I still don't think we get the best out of him when he's expected to operate from the right, as has been increasing the case in the last three weeks with this one, dropable center mid three. So the numbers are there. But if he can hone that by cutting out the mistakes through the flicks and tricks and just using his raw ability to delay the pass, make the pass at the right time, execute quality from set pieces, then he can be the heartbeat of the side for a long, long time to come.

You've got to try things, though. So as a creative attacking player, you have to be given the license to make a mistake. The old Cooper mantra, don't be boring. He's certainly not that. We just want to see him iron out the enforced errors to be the best player he can be for our team.

Yeah. I've so often compared him to James Madison this season, so I think they're trying to play similar roles, but Madison doesn't really have the flicks and the tricks, but he does have very efficient passing and the chance creation, and he takes up good areas. But also there is an element, Pritz, that he is doing a bit of a job for the team at the moment, isn't he? As Tim said, he's playing from the right, which isn't really his best position.

Yeah, I don't think he's that traditional cliched luxury player that does nothing the opposite way. I don't think, especially in a team such as Forest, given where they are finding the feet back in the Premier League to become part of that particular furniture again, there's no room for passengers. And Steve is not that type of manager, is he? He's had players that potentially you might put in that bracket like an IoT at Swansea, but he worked his socks off up top. He got a different tune out of a player such as that. So he knows that he needs those players that can change games. There was... I just got to mention about a game I was at the City Grand last season, and it was a forest home win, Brennan scored. And one of the goals waswas, it was a great goal from Brennan, but the pass into him from Morgan was exquisite because it was a pass that had pace on it. It had accuracy. It allowed Brennan to take a first touch toward goal. And it was... He made it look very simplistic, but there encounter lies the skill of what he's got.

That type of pass, which is not straightforward in its execution, but looks straightforward and is one that can take out several members of the opposition. That's what he can do. The other bits and bobs, I'm not saying he's been indulged to do stuff like that, and you can bet your backside that Steve is not going, Morgan, try as many of these flicks and tricks that you can and really put the ball at risk, because he knows how dangerous that can be. The Madison comparison, I think, is a good one. Madison, and I don't think anyone watching this or listening to this would disagree no matter how much you love Forrest. Madison surrounded by far better players. So maybe that ability is also a regular member of the England squad when he's not injured, isn't he? So you're looking at a player there that's maybe had those tendencies that Morgan has got, but ironed them out because that's what separates a very good Premier League player to one that's playing in the team that has been top of the league, that has dominated football matches. So maybe therein lies a different... Maybe it's all a bit of a learning process, but some players learn quicker than others.

Some players offer different things. And from what Temp said, numbers wise, he said. It's a player that's not contributing, is it? I just think whether there is that sense, and I've been treated to see comments wise from you two lads, that are we expecting too much of - Yeah.

That's what I was going to say. Are we holding him to a standard, Prux? Are we holding him to a standard because of what we know he can be?

I'd say so. And yeah, I would. Yeah. I think in any team you need a player that can change the match for you. It's a bit like possibly we saw Brennan getting a bit of stick, start of last season, didn't we? And sometimes other dynamics come into that of what is meant to the football club, what is done moving forward for Forest, what is managed to achieve in the Championship and then moving into the Premier League. But it all becomes very hypothetical because then when you watch on a football pitch and he does things that you don't quite understand, that's your currency as a fan. You're allowed to say that. You're allowed to say that things get on your nerves about the players that are wearing your shirt. And given what I saw in the game yesterday, I was far more perturbed by the defending than I was by Morgan's performance.

Yeah, Is Forest fans have a habit of isolating one player, I think, and Morgan Gibbs White wasn't the problem particularly in this game. But I suppose, like you say, we haven't really seen those outside of the footballs in behind that set up a Brennan's goal against Leicester and a one-nil goal against Pallis. We haven't quite seen that. But yeah, I think he's still a good player. And we should say congratulations on becoming a father, having spent 20 minutes discussing him. We're not that long, but yeah.

He's probably knackered then. Well, congratulations.

Yes. Babyborn last week. So he's going to be knackered for the.

Next few months. He hasn't slept since Tuesday, blessed him. We're bagging him for a long corner.

True. Yeah. And obviously taking away all the hard work done by his wife. Oh, he must be really tired. And she's sat at home going, Are you joking?

Last point on the game in general. I think Mikey really wants to discuss this because Mikey was really angry coming out of the match tense. He was for a week quite a lot. I think it's around physical and mental weakness to see how a game. I think he's got a point there, hasn't he? To be fair.

Well, the word Cooper used was desire, wasn't it? You want to stop some of such a check. You find a way within the laws of the game, within the confines of VAR. You touch the right part of the body a little nudge here, a little notch there. I don't think that Cooper thought, and certainly, Mikey Clark thought we were good enough or cute enough in that. So yeah, we need to be harder and not in the pruts way, go and kick him in the knee with five minutes to go against you, whatever. In a certain model-Premie League way. You've got to mean your.

Tackles- In a James Warprowse way?

Yeah, exactly. What a boy. What a boy. I bet you can bend your breath.

Jimmy, my mate, Jimmy.

There's a certain hardness and shrewdness that the top Premier League players have. I don't know how else to describe it, but yeah, there are clips from yesterday's game where you can see that we didn't have, I'll use Steve Cooper's word, the desire to defend in the same way that Sutech had the desire to attack.

True. Let's talk about Marillo briefly as well. That'd be a big worry, perhaps, if he's out for a while. He went off with a hamstring strain. That could be a problem because he's come in and done so well.

No, he's been good on it. He's visibly frustrated, obviously, coming off the pitch. And I think given what he's brought, that word desire and his ability to galvanize those players around him, I think he's been a really good addition. Having read a lot of feedback with regards to team selection and recruitment, there's not many that are looking at him and not too sure, are they? Everyone's pretty happy with what they've seen so far from him. So has there been any word on what potentially that could be? They all probably look like he's holding his hamstring.

Yeah, with a hamstring, he's going to have a scan probably today. I suppose the benefit is he'll have the international break, but I suppose the opportunity is there now for Willy Bolly to come back in potentially and get his place back, because aside from yesterday, he's actually done really well for us.

Yeah, Bolly was unlucky to be left out, wasn't he? But we had a necote masterclass last week, and I think he does have more about him on the ball. But Bolly's a monster. The sheer size of him, you'd want him in your box, wouldn't you? Defending a James Ward-Prowse set piece. There's a hair's breadth, really, between Bolly and necote as that second central defender. But you're right, what applaud it? Haven't we already laid out there for Marillo. I'm not having his age. I reckon he's five years old and he's making out. Some of these obscure crickers that we're scouting at the minute. I just think he looks like he's fully formed, isn't he? He's arrived off the back of less than 20 games for Corinthians and looks like a comfortable Premier League defender. When the Domingu's mistake occurred, it was Marillo that reacted best for me. He had that last gasp dive to try and get in the way of the ball. He has a hunger, a desire to defend, and also that rare vision and ball-playing ability for a centre-half, limitless potential. I think in a footballing sense, they want to pair with Niokate, but has to be bang on that door now.

Did I see? It's nothing to do with his football and ability. Was he one of the first lads over to go and see the young lad playing in the last post? Yeah. Which I thought... Because you read it, don't you? You see it on Twitter and obviously you get all kinds of whoppers steaming in all pointing to the finger. People that have never done anything in the lives going, Look at that. It was rubbish. And then you watch it and you see how emotional it was. The reaction from the Forest fans was exceptional. I mean, talk about needing a certain fortitude to do that in front of so many people on a very emotive day. But it looked like Marilla was one of the first ones over to give him the benefit of, come on, mate, you're fine. These things happen. I thought that was a nice touch and almost leading the team over. Not saying without him they wouldn't have done it, but you get a sense of that's the type of player and person that he is from the tiny bit that I've seen of him. I was very impressed with that.

I talked on it, Matt, the weekend. What odds would Paddy give me on Marillo being a future Brazil captain?

I've said he's going to play for Real Madrid in three or four years. So yeah, I think he's that good. I think we might be a stepping stone for him, which I don't mind, to be fair.

If it's a stepping stone that keeps for us in the Premier League, then happy days.

You're right. There's just an implied leadership that isn't there? Being psyched up for a game and everything that's going through your head at that moment puts and then, Oh, there's a kid in trouble here. I'm going to go and tap him on the shoulder and give him a word that he will remember for the rest of his life. And that's incredible from a 21-year-old that doesn't speak the language. God knows what he said. I don't know how he can console a bugler, and he can barely speak a word of the Queen's blessing at the minute.

But yeah, empathy doesn't need words, does it? That's not a necessity for that. It's a feeling. It's an emotion. And he knew what to do in the actual... Knowing what to say at the right time is tough. Knowing how to act in a specific moment, I think, is even tough because that's what your natural instincts are as a human being. And his natural instinct was to go and help, which I thought was, as you say, a class act.

Yeah. Emotional intelligence from a young lad. Really good to see.

Speaking of emotional intelligence, Matt, what's your next question?

Thank you. Greg in the comments pointed out he was the first to go to Domingo's yesterday, and he was the first to go to Warrell, as Greg said. So I do like that point, which is true. Talking of Domingo's from a Centrum and Fielders point of view, you make a big gaff early in the game and he didn't didn't seem to recover from it well. I know he came into the game with a bit of an illness, but he seemed slow as the ball in his passing was off. Can that just happen in your experience? You make a bad start and you just feel things unraveling for you within an isolated match.

Yeah. And I suppose if you were watching Forrest 20 years ago, you nod along going, Yeah, I've seen him do that and absolutely unravel in a game. And that's how it goes. Yeah, you can. It's a proper tough test. It's a tough test, that one, because speaking from experience, it's the proverbial runaway train where it's gone. The only difference is that if you're having a stinker at work, and by virtue of what football is, there's 40,000 people seeing it in real time, and however many hundreds of thousand people watching it at home, and then watching the goal back, which is there for eternity, existing somewhere for people to see. And that's where mental toughness has to come into it. Again, you're looking at a player that before this game and the first half had broadly covered himself in a relative amount of glory with regards to performances. We're not looking at a player there that's given the ball away every single week that's leading to goals, are we? By any stretch. You hope from a points gathering point of view that it's an isolated incident. And for him, yeah, it's tough because that happens, the game gets away from forest, you get taken off.

A very straightforward finger point would say, Well, it's your fault. I'm not saying it is by any stretch, but human nature, you're feeling like you're starting to go, Christ, this doesn't look like anything else other than my fault now. But that's the nature of the beast. There's no hard in place. If you've got any aspirations for longevity at the level that he wants to, and I think he's got the capabilities of that, bad days at the office are going to happen. You've got to get over it very, very quickly. I'm not saying for one second that the next time he's in training, it's there to have the Mickey taken out of, because it'll be so for everyone. If Cooke said you're saying that, he'd go ballistic given how disappointed he was off the back of the game. But that comes being part of that collective where you've got to take it on the chin. That's what I always felt about football and progressing in football and moving through youth teams and stuff. It's funny because I went to see Paul Hartley the week just to have a cup of coffee and pick his brains about a couple of bits.

And then you start reminiscing as we all do a bit like we are now. And you talk about how good he was with younger players. He was very tough, very tough on younger players, but very empathetic and kind. And what he dished out in front of your teammates to specific players was as much instant feedback, but it was also stress-testing. Can you deal with 20 other players looking at you going, It's him today that's been crap. Can you deal with that? Because soon it'll be 15,000 people watching you, maybe thinking the same thing, 30,000 people watching. The paper saying the same thing, the internet forever saying the same thing. You've got to be able to deal with it. And that's what it is. It makes footballers emotionally, mentally, hopefully robust in that particular situation, and none more so than this situation. Got to get back on the bike, start pedaling again. That's the only way forward.

Did Danilo do enough for you, Temp, to maybe take his place or not?

Well, he was crying out for that pass at the back stick, wasn't he? After Anthony, Alengar and Taewo combined so well for that chance where he's pulled out the sky. Really clever. 1-2. And he made that run to the back stick where the goal was begging. I think he's found himself ahead of Ryan Yates because Cooper wants to play dynamic players. And it's an interesting debate because if you just wanted all-out heart, action, what's the word? Desire, what Steve Cooper's word from the weekend, then Yates, he gets in ahead of the nilo because of what he is. But it's that need that he feels to have this more dynamic midfield where players can be multidimensional that puts him ahead of Yatesy in terms of the changes he's making from the bench now. And I think therefore, and his thoughts for what he's going to do if he does break up this central midfield three at any point. The Danilo at the back end of the last season starts every game on the merit. He's had injuries. He's fighting to get back towards his form. But it's a really valid debate at the minute. I don't think he is quite ready to break into that three.

I'm not even sure the minute in certain types of games, he's an automatic pick over Yatesy. So very much of a debate for me. I thought he was the only change that we might see going into this one, maybe in place of a Langer. But as it happened, that outlet was entirely necessary. And you think now, Well, if he's not going to break up that Central Midfield Three, if we need the pace of a Langa out on the left, then he's scrapping with Morgan Gibbs White, and he's taking too much away in that respect. So the midfield selection very much up for debate. The manner in which his claim would have been slightly different if Taro had looked up and slid him in yesterday.

True. Someone in the comments has called you a B-tech Felipe, Pratt, which I think is actually a great compliment because there's no more handsome man in football than Felipe.

There was another one asking about my teeth. I can assure you these are all mine. I mean, at one stage when I was younger, they were all pointing in different directions, but I could chew through most wire cabling, but don't worry, they're all mine. They weren't bought off the continent.

So, yes, someone else asked if you got the same stylists as Roman, Frank, and Nathan as well.

If you scroll back 15 minutes, I got a happy shopper, Felipe. Did you? My mates like to point out I look far more like Philip Schofield than Felipe.

I'm trying to find a comment which leads into, not bagging you, chaps, no. Leads into a good final topic. Oh, yeah. Okay. Is this the season? Is this going to be a season of should-haves? And I suppose that's one of the points that we've had is never too high, never too low. I think the thing we have to do is cut out the bad days and reduce the errors. We didn't do that against West Ham. So I suppose, Thames, is that a fair point that this season could be one of should-haves and what might have been if we're not careful?

It's going to be a season of progression and as much as we're going to finish six to ten points ahead of where we find ourselves last season. I just think for some people, that's not going to be enough, is it? So the Cooper Out Brigade is still out in reasonable force, and there's my camp, a bit more circumspect and see that any season in which you improve as a football club and improve your points tally in the Premier League should be seen as a positive thing, and upheaval disrupts that. Every season is a season of should-haves because we look back with roast into the spec slightly, Oh, what if this happened? What if the other happened? And we tend not to remember those moments where us ourselves had a bit of luck. Like the palace win at home last season, for example, where the AR was very kind to us rather than the other way around. I think we're going to progress. I still think we'll find ourselves 6-10 points ahead of where we were last season. I know for some people that won't be enough, but I think that gives us a platform to kick on again, again, again and again and again.

I, for one, I'm all about the continuity of the management and now of the spine of this team. I don't think major surgery will be required in quite the way it has in the past two years. Yes, we're in the bottom six with five other recently promoted sides, but I just think there's more about us and more improvement to come from within. Will that be enough for everyone? Probably not.

What then is the consensus of what it should be for Forest this season?

I think some want to see us 15 to 20 points ahead of where we were last season, which is such an Almighty leap in Premier League terms.

Yeah. I think if we finish anywhere, there's a clutch of teams from ninth to 16th that are fighting for that bracket, and we could finish high up in it. We could finish with low down in it. But I think we're a better team than we were last season, certainly. I mean, I suppose, Pruts, last week we were on here saying how brilliant we were against Saturday and Villa and we played really well. And my worry is people are like, Oh, we're amazing. We're going to do this. We beat Villa, we're going to finish ninth. And I was like saying, Well, like I said before, good days and bad days are a bad day, but we can't be completely on the floor. I mean, there were good things yesterday, but it's these moments of madness like we saw against Luton that are holding us back from where we could be. But it's not all need for doom and gloom, is it? Certainly.

Well, no, but it just reflects, like you said, about the bottom six, Burnet the bottom, Sheffield United, Luton Bourne with Fulham, and then Forest. Everton have been in the top flight for eons. Palace we've seen bounce between the two. Wolves, Brentford, similar. The rest, Chelsea West Ham... I don't know, I'm just naming Premier League football teams here. Chelsea, West Ham, Brighton, Newcastle, Magnet, and Villa Spurs. Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City at the top. I've always finished 15th like that. And without being a pessimist or a cynic or anything like that at all, again, that gradual building, and forgive me, Forest fans for using Leeds as an example, Leeds came steaming back in after 16 years and declared that after the first season, we want to get to here, get to there. And you're listening going, Oh, my God. What are you talking about? You've been away from it for that long. That consolidation. And I don't think it is too defeatist because you talk about European Super League, this is it. It's ginormous. The team bankrolled by states. That's where the fight is. And then to be comfortably mid-table towards the bottom half of the table in that bracket way above the bottom three.

But whether you get anywhere near European football, I think that still qualifies as success. And whether you're a Forest fan that's seen them conquer Europe back to back, whether you've seen them finish third, was it under Frank Clark? That's a different kettle of fish entirely. This is what they've got in the here and now and the finances that play with different football clubs. I understand that need for progression. I understand that thirst for it, the hunger for it. That's what being a football fan is about. But the realistic side of it is where you look at a West Ham team that beat Forest. Obviously, we've said so much over the course of our chat that ably assisted by Forest. They won a European trophy, regardless of what the European trophy was last season, but they were still struggling at the bottom end. That goes to show what this division is like. It can draw out, it can concertina. And the minute you start thinking we should be doing better, it can quite quickly bite you on the on the backside. And suddenly you are looking around thinking, Right, we've got to duke it out now between former championship size to make sure that we stay in the division.

Like I said, I'm not being defeated to say that from what I've seen in the Premier League, there's different factions of leagues within leagues. But Forrester are absolutely in the thick of that one that, yes, it would be great to have that top half finish, maybe have a little look on the horizon towards the European spot. But it's about the evolution of the football club, and evolution can take time.

And the other thing is about teams like us and teams in this bracket. You'll have streaks where you play well and streaks where you're terrible. Look at Wolves a few weeks ago. Wolves fans thought Gary O'Neal was a complete dunk, so now they're absolutely loving him. Everton lose at home to Luton and and they're terrible. Now they're beating West Ham away and they're winning at Crystal Palace and they're great again. But by nature of being a mid-table team, you're going to have games where you'll win one, lose two, win two, lose one. That's why you're a mid-table team. If you're a relegation team, you're going to lose almost every match and be scraping for points and it's all chin up, chin up, we'll get there. And if you're Chelsea and Man United, you expect to be much higher than you are. But we're in this bracket where we're going to win some, we're going to lose some. And I know I sound like a broken record, but we have to be more efficient and reduce the errors. Gary talks about avoidable goals all the time. We've gifted five goals in three games, and we don't need to do that to Liverpool, but we did it.

Definitely don't need to do it to Liverpool, but we did it. And we've given three to... It's more than five goals in three games, isn't all maths is terrible. It's eight goals. And we've given West Ham three. Steve Cooper says you've got to be perfect to win games against top sides. It's frustrating. We didn't have to be perfect to beat West Ham. Temp said after seven minutes, we could see we could get at them, and we really did throw it away. And that's the frustration that we could be better in the table than we are. But similarly, we've had really good days against Chelsea and Villa, and I think we're a side that's progressing. It's just about calm heads, level heads. We've got two weeks to put it right. And then we've got Brighton where it could be anything, because they could turn up and they could absolutely turn it on and score three goals.

Without- Like home games as well.

Exactly. But Brighton, we saw drawing with Sheffield United, drawing with Everton. They're another team now where you can get at them. And then we've got Everton and that's a big game. And if we come out of this game, this bracket, having beaten Villa, beaten maybe Everton and got a point with Brighton, then we're doing all right.

Isn't points per game wise, a forest marginally ahead this season? Did I read? Maybe a point?

Someone said we're 1.08 points per game, so we're doing better than we were. Yeah. I don't know, Pat, in the comments is, How many games have we won? We've won three, but we could have won more. I still maintain that Steve Cooper has us on the right track and we're getting to where we want to be, but it's never just a straight line up, especially you sign all these new players, they take time to settle. How many other teams have got seven new signings and changing their back for game after game? So yeah, that's where I'm at on it.

I mean, you are preaching to the converted. But then if there wasn't any debate, if there wasn't a section of fans that were miffed, if there wasn't a section of fans that were delusionally glass half full at all times, then we wouldn't be sat here for a start chatting about it, would we? It'd all be very, very similar. So I totally get it. I absolutely do get it. And like I said, I'm talking about this football club, hopefully right now, objectively. But the subjective side of it is having had a foot in the door many, many about it, but also following it back into the Premier League and knowing how tough it was, who's been in charge, who's been nowhere near getting the team promoted, who's been nowhere near hitting the heights that have been set in decades gone by. So what Steve's done, the way he's gone about it, don't worry, we're not going to turn this into we all love Steve Cooper. Therefore, he should never, ever, ever be in a sticky situation regarding his ongoing leadership efforts. But right now, he's a fair distance away from that given what we've seen and how he's set the team up.

And again, we go back to the reaction of yesterday. He's as frustrated as everyone watching the game or making comments about what he saw on the pitch as anyone else. It's his team. He has to take responsibility for that. He's banging his head on the wall going, Lads, you know how good the set of pieces are. Why aren't you picking people up? That's the virtue of what he is as a professional football manager. I think the incremental improvement that we're seeing is keeping Forrest on track. What that track is? I don't know. Do we expect them to be knocking under the door of Europe in the next five years? Is that a relatable concept? Is that something realistic? You've still got to take it season on season, I think.

I hope it's a feeling that the old gs, these players could really be something here. These players have the potential to be A, B and C rather than we just ain't good enough. That simplistic argument doesn't wash with anyone that's watching these games. You can see that Forest are a work in progress and that their ceiling is higher than some of their performances or results, more importantly at this moment in time. But I think the broadest element of the fan base, see what we can be, and they're just a bit frustrated that we're not getting there as quickly as they would like. But two winnable home games there, Matt, and as was the mood after Villa, we could see ourselves looking up once more if we were to get four points from two games there.

Yeah. The pressure comes if you get zero points from two games, and that's the nature of management because it is a results business, and I fully accept that. It's an ongoing process, but it's not a straightforward process. Right, loads and loads of comments. Very much appreciated. I did try and keep up with them all. Any other business attempts before we depart? Anything you want to add?

I was going to tell a quick story for Greg. So Greg's a patron of an MND charity called Stand Against MND, and he was a Marshall at their golf event a couple of weeks ago, and he positioned himself on the green of the... There's a hole at the nottinghamshire on the signature course, part three straight over water. I can see him stood on the green with camera out. Here we go. Time to shine. So full swing, top to it. It's bounced three times on the water. As you see, Roy Mcleroy do an exhibition games. He does it quite deliberately. This was definitely a mistake from me. Climbs the bank and lands six foot from the own. So I'm dancing a bit of a jig, walked down to the green. I can't then, Greg. Show us that clip. And he says, The second I saw it going for the water, I stopped filming and deleted it to save embarrassment. So now no one will ever truly know if I meant it or not because Sir Gregory deleted it. I can assure you I didn't. And I did make the put-out by the way. But yeah, one of my favorite moments on a golf course would have been captured forever if it wasn't for Greg trying to do the right thing and save what he thought was going to be my embarrassment rather than my pride.

Rubbish, Greg.

Rubbish... I do the right thing. That's why we love Greg.

He does, Denise. He's just a fundamentally nice dude.

He is. And I know people say he's too optimistic, but I think we need that. So yeah, that's what we need in the fan base. The optimistic and the cynical are all welcome.

-cox, anything from you? -makes for the melting pot, doesn't it? Anything from me? No, I'm very happy to be back on again. As I said, without falling into Greg mode of being just perennially optimistic, I think there's so much to like about what's going on. There's so much to enjoy about the movement and the direction that Forrester in. Yeah, everyone goes into the international break because the thing is, you've got to sit on your hands now for two weeks and think about it. If you're at a loose end, feel free to watch Knots County at lunchtime on Saturday. Get yourselves on board for that one. But it's that sense of that what-if element, but that keeps coming back as a football fan, doesn't it? You go back with full voice and full heart knowing that next time it could be a wonderful sensation walking back along the river after the next game.

True. Right. Well, people often say this is a bit of therapy listening to this, so it's been a bit therapeutic for me. I've had a couple of terrible few days, so I'm grateful for people being with us as ever. Very much appreciated and grateful to Themp, Prat, Greg, et al for being so supported.

I once used that phrase working with Glenn Murray et al, without sounding like a what? What's that? With et al? Well, no, Glenn's taken it, and I love Glenn to bits, even though he is very miserable, was who?

The Moroccan midfielder.

Yeah, exactly.

You've got to do that weird Parches thing when he's on the phone saying, don't you have a basic grasp of Latin working in Curries? I tried to explain and he just chucked his head. That was it. End of combo.

A good note to end on. Right. We'll leave it there. We'll be back. Because it's an international break, I don't think we'll have a Wednesday show. We'll just do something on Thursday or Friday just to bridge the gap of the board from non-Prem League football. But do join us for that. And as I said, thanks for being with us. Prats, thank you. Hope you enjoyed it.

Loved it, mate. Loved it, mate. Echoing the sentiments in the comments as well, mate. You do a fantastic job and long wait to continue. Lots of love.

Thank you. Tempts, anything from you? Well, no, don't say anything else. Just say goodbye. Unless you really do want to say something else, we're dragging on.

No, that's enough from me. Cheers, fellas.

Good. He's shaking his head, which is always good for audio. Thanks very much, everyone. Have a good few days and we shall see you soon.