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Why, Peruggia, that's what that was like, my big thing when I was watching, I was like, why not Fenice?


Why not Tuscon, so there's a sister city association with Perusia in Seattle, so like the the reason why Perusia was such a nice place to do that is because they had developed between the UW and the and the University of Sydney area program that was like a friendship program. So people from they just made it very easy to like they made it easy for you to sign up for classes, basically. And that's why a small town in the middle of Italy, I didn't even realize there was another university there.


I thought I was supposed to be like a small town vibe. And I felt like a small town vibe was going to be better for me to learn the language, because I figured I've been to places like Tokyo or Berlin. I know that when you're there, a lot of people speak English and you are and they want to practice English on you. And it's like, I'm not here. I didn't.


And my the world my English is better than you're German. So can we just get this right? I need to like, find the bathroom. I watched. I don't want to go is deported similar Vortis despotism. I don't want to like work to like find out when I need to pee. And that was not like in Italy. I was going for small town where there weren't going to be many tourists because I genuinely wanted to just like immerse myself in Italian people.


And that was out of a genuine love for Italian people.


So pathogen avoidance circling back because I forgot.


So when we the fear of a robot or a scarecrow or doll, I talked about this a little bit with Robert Green dolls do creep me out, think that clowns is when something looks human but doesn't behave like a human.


And I think the reason why dolls freak me out even more is because their children don't like I'm always in makeup and dressed in, like, weird drag makeup.


Yeah, I'm like, I can't take care of you.


And yeah. And like there's like your eyelashes are those from what are the eyelashes made up. Yeah. I just want to know what animal died for this creepy fucking doll. But pathogen avoidance, if we see something that looks human but doesn't move like a human, the descendants stresses us out to stop us from fucking corpses. Which have those guys.


What were you guys? What were you saying? So that the fear of holes and like when people see close ups of human skin, they can be really freaked out by all the players.


And we were hypothesizing the other day, try YPO phobia. It's a I think that's it. Yeah.


A fear of like in at the normal human scale of perception, you don't see things with many holes that way unless you have like gaping wound sores or festering, you know, like so it's a disease avoidance thing.


Leprosy pathogen avoidance for Jayaweera War. Yeah, they show honeycombs.


Yeah. I and I love popping zits, which I've talked about. I also love popping sets live. She does it without consent though. Yeah.


No I have learned to not. I do it right. Do I do with exes.


I'm like can I just got that. Like I cannot handle it.


So I have a thing that goes back to like grooming grow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ejecting bacteria from the body et cetera, et cetera.


Interesting that I wrote down. OK, so why is it that when Ted the Ted Bundy tapes came out, I listened to them and Ted Bundy does a movie and we watch it, Ted, but like, why isn't Ted Bundy case?


Why do actual convicted murderers get to have 50 shows and be celebrities and comedians don't get to say tell rape jokes. That's not I know that's a big Pandora's box, but it's like. You have to have done it. To speak knowledgeably about know I mean, I listen to the Ted Bundy tapes on Netflix, I gave I don't know who got that money, but Joe Berlinger.


But can I who's that? He's the director. Oh, copy that. Am I? I can't listen, R. Kelly. I can't listen to Michael Jackson. I can't watch Kevin Spacey movies, but I can watch the Ted Bundy tapes and mine hunter.


I think that's because we we want to understand extremes. And so I think we're on yeah. We're drawn to black and white. And I think it also kind of goes back. I mean, at least from a woman's perspective, you're going I could have loved this man.


And and Ted Bundy had a wife that he did not kill, right? Absolutely. And I'm such a like it's a wolf.


I'm not going to think people are really drawn to and terrified of the idea that the person who looks really pleasant and really nice and kind, the Ted Bundy or the Amanda Knox especially, it could be anyone.


And they are sometimes they're handsome. Sometimes they yap, yap, yap.


And it also like isn't like you don't have this sort of satisfying, like, oh, you know, he grew up in a bad home and he was like, you know, it's always, always the mom's fault.


Always the mom put painting. There's a whole show about like psychopaths, moms or something like that. It's always the mom's fault.


She just didn't do anything right.


Not what about your mom's day where you, like, forgot you were Amanda Knox for the day, like one day where you just, like, got through the day, maybe your wedding day or something, where you were just like, no, I did not get to do that on my wedding day because they were paparazzi that were AMZI.


Yeah. Like the day before my wedding, we got, like, the guy in the office at like the no, like the the guy who owned the Elks Lodge where we were we were at like call me in.


And he was like, oh my God, I hope I didn't do anything wrong. And I was like, what happened? And he was like, well, this TMZ called and and they asked if your wedding was happening. And I said, it's a private event. And like he was in Blasim, I didn't like I thought that we had done a good enough job to, like, not let them figure this out. I don't know how they figured out that it was an Elks Lodge of all plays out in space themed wedding.


Yeah, incorrect. Though it's not even space themed. They were just like postulating based on what people regard. Good to see a man. And Chris came full circle with their love for the otherworldly. They got engaged with a full blown E.T. recreation.


I love it how people were like making assumptions about what it was based on, like their what they saw through their long distance lenses and no no context whatsoever.


It was not a one time convicted felon like the acquitted, acquitted person.


But these are words like words fucking like boom. Yep. Yeah. Adrenaline turns into dopamine and they know that. Yeah. Once convicted as a the safe way like then I can't sue you way of saying you called me convicted when I was twenty one. I have attempted I've got looked into suing people and consistently across the board I it's never ever worth the amount of money that I would have to put into fighting it and it would take years and it would honestly just give them more publicity.


I as a public figure don't have the same protections as a private person and people can make what they want of me and my story constantly without having to consult me. So lots and lots of people are making money off of the worst experience of my life and I have no say in it.


And then when you have a career that isn't even you know, when you just do a podcast, that's not about that. You're criticized for somehow having a job.


Yeah, yeah. But it's also but I get criticized. It's like that also now that you're like moving into the things that you have earned and deserve to be doing and should be doing, you're going gonna get shit. Forget Italy. You know, I'm saying everyone that has a podcast and a public figure gets shit. So it's you're also a lot of it is not cumulative. A lot of it is. It's just like it's like in the roasts.


It's like when we have nothing to get you on, we're going to go for your looks. We have nothing to get you on. It's like the best thing that can happen to you at a Comedy Central roast, which is the public flogging that we sign up for.


Yeah, the schadenfreude, first of all, the, you know, cutting just public humiliation. The Roman Colosseum like it's kinky if it's so kinky.


Yes. They're crying and sort of like trying to read and I'm just trying to pay my rent and like, that hurts.


Is it like the purge? Do you guys just do the purge? Says comedian purge, you get it out, it's good for you, it's really good for you, Pancoast like no, we do it because we get paid.


Oh, you know what? That's great. Our job. Good on you. And but the Friars Club roasts were for free. And truly, this is how we show love to each other. When you grow up in a home where people. This is why I loved Roseanne and why when I watch Roseanne, I was like, holy shit, that's how my family talks to each other.


That's just like some everyone's scared. Ba ba ba ba. Self-Aware, self-aware, self-aware. Like this is why I love Chris being like, oh really? Because everything is about you. I love that.


That's how we talk to each other. But he literally does that because he knows that you like it and he's like oh like.


But also, you know, you're, you're like it's a and maybe it's a catharsis for you because, you know, I didn't like that.


It makes me think we're equals and it makes me think. You don't think I'm weak and fragile because I'm sick of people thinking I'm fucking fragile because I'm a woman. It's enough. It's fucking enough. I mean, it doesn't it's not tracking for me. It's not true. This narrative is not true. And it's not serving anyone, so like when you fucking come for me. Oh, and I wanted to talk to you about this. Emily sent me the there was this female.


A football player, first female football player, OK, on women should be able to get traumatic brain injuries to head. I mean, which is like I don't think I mean, don't get me started. I love I know executives. So this woman is named the the lost vet.


The lost vet, like like sexy. You know that from the show or.


No, this is weird. Sarah Fuller. Hey, girl. First woman to play for a power five college football team last weekend is set to continue her career with Vanderbilt. The twenty one year old took on kickoff duties for the Commodores last week after several members of the team were ruled out due to covid-19 protocols. And so she's the kicker.


She's the designated kicker. Is that right? Sports is not Marcheline. The comments. I hope she gets plowed. Huh, publicity stunt, she's going to get slaughtered on a fire play. They couldn't have grabbed one from the guy's team. Is it bad that I want her to get rocked? I mean, it's only fair. Rocked meaning like tackles, like what does that mean, someone better tackle the fuck out of her, make her realize it's 20, 20.


I hope she gets plowed.


I mean, that's I mean, do they say that about all the designated kickers? Because that's not the job. I don't think kickers even get to know. They just go on the field to kick the ball and then they leave the field. They're not built to do what a line like. And again, like that's also ridiculous to say because like the person I don't know much about football because I don't play sports or I don't do like I'm not a sports person, but I know that some people are bigger because that's their job.


They're supposed to, like, hold people back. Some people are smaller and they run fast and that's their job. And some people can kick a ball. Yeah. And like, it's not, you know, for a lot of the things that happen in football, it has to be a guy because like that, you're just the way that the game is built is because that's how your body is built. But like the kicker is not he doesn't if you can kick the damn ball, like you can kick the damn ball.


Well, but so cooking, I don't feel I didn't fully understand because. Are you talking about the Kinki thing? Well no. People keep saying like he's a cook, he's a cook and I sometimes pretend to know what it is because I don't want to be embarrassed and I'm like, like it feels like a political thing and like political just feels like sports to me and I just it is sports. I just. Yeah. I mean it feels like forty Niners versus I said the Redskins.


The Dolphins. I think a cuck is someone who allows himself to be dominated by a woman. Is that what that.


But there's an amazing I think it derives from cuckold's right. Right. Which is women getting fucked in the publicly.


And so the man in Italian, they say so yeah. When a woman is unfaithful to her man like the husband is the one who's the cuckold because he is, you know, the woman's getting her is behind the scenes when she should be getting it from her husband. So it's so humiliating.


She's having multiple orgasms.


It's just goes back to the epistemic gap exactly like any if you have an animal, the human in which one of them knows that it's their child and the other one just has to hope and the other one is bigger and stronger, they're going to lock that shit down. And that's what you see all across human cultures. The women are locked down in various ways.


But I just it's the I think we like to watch women be humiliated. We have a way it's a way out of control.


That's about humiliating the man. That's about the. You didn't lock your women down good enough. Yeah. That's why you're now Occoquan. Yes. As well. You're a woman well enough. You couldn't fuck your dicks. Not big.


Well, I think it's more so the shame that men put on other men, because how are you going to protect your lineage if you don't have control of that?


Or like people who who say rude things to me on Instagram, like, oh, I bet you are paying your cock husband. So like in our relationship, the cock is supposed to is the one who takes on the feminine, submissive, modern.


That means you fucked in the butt with a yes. I mean this whole thing is cuckold. The word etymology comes from. Yeah, the modern cuck is more like a beta chomp. Yeah. Right. You're not an alpha is kind of what is synonymous with.


Yeah. Is it a chad. Is a chad supposed to be the opposite of a cook. What is it, what's the opposite of a cook. An Alpha whatever. What's a chad. Does that a thing. No what a chad is. Is that like don't insult. Describe Chad's is the one who is actually having sex. I don't know.


I don't know. You guys don't know anything about anything.


Let's be honest. I really don't. Let's be honest. I admit I'm shocked.


Yeah. So there's Cuck, as you might expect, comes from the word cuckold. An insulting word for a man whose wife is cheating on him. The Oxford English Dictionary places its first attested use in the mid 13th century. Middle English poem. OK, I don't do poems.


And the idea is that, like, if a woman can get away with cuckolding her husband, it's because he's a submissive and hasn't asserted dominance over his woman. Which is why I like back in the day they were like, Oh, your way of informing your wife that you love her is beating her because you care enough about her to assert your dominance over her.


But also, it's like it's not if the wife is cheating on the husband, it's like even if the wife is raped. Yeah.


Even if, like, you didn't fire husband, you didn't lock her down. Knocked down enough.


Right. The husband becomes the cuckold because he failed in some capacity.


Hunker down. Yeah. The idea that, like you have to be asserting dominance constantly for any human relationship to have meaning is silly. As soon as you like, as soon as you like, get to a place where you don't have to be asserting dominance, like, then you have this eureka moment.


But you live in a world where everyone is asserting dominance. Like you don't you don't understand that there's another way to be. And so, like, I feel bad for when people like especially guys say stuff to me like that because I like how you have never had a fulfilling relationship. Such a bummer.


I feel. I love that you are. In the place, and I think, Chris, like it's it's there's no reason you should be here, because I you know, I do call you the tiger by her side. You know, it's like. That you have compassion for the people that come for you and like, you know, their motives and you know that hurt people, hurt people and you know that they're using you as their greatest.


Yeah, I mean, it's so obvious to me is the thing. When did it become obvious?


When it couldn't have come?


I mean, if you knew this when you were in jail, like, how did you know it was becoming then they're different.


Yeah, I was in prison.


Do you learn this like two hours holding up a mirror. And I don't like it. And I really hate everyone. You hate them.


What was I going to say? When did you what did you know that the people that attacked you were in pain?


Because I saw there, like, I don't know, I just and I hate the word empathic, it's kind of like gotten a little bit like like it's a water bottle.


I just like I've never, like, had the impulse to punch a wall. Right. Like, I know people do that when they're mad and they and I've seen people do that when they're mad and I've just never had that impulse before. And I see them and like I feel like someone's impulse to punch a wall is their same impulse to punch a person, their same impulse to hurt a person.


And I'm like, you are clearly feeling something that I just don't feel ancestral, like it's so much bigger than you.


It's so much bigger than the first reaction.


And that's my fear about the neural link that Rogan's always talking about.


And Elon Musk and and we were talking about this the other day, which is like my first and second thought is probably not great, is never great.


And it's so wonderful that you acknowledge that because other people so much identify with their thoughts that they can't bear the thought of thinking the wrong thing.


Feelings are not facts that the first thing you even your own thoughts are not facts. Like you can be like you. They're not you. You're not defined by your thoughts or any.


And my favorite part of that history is when men realize that women needed sexual satisfaction. So they were just like, oh, we're just going to diagnose histeria and give them dildoes. And that was like almost compassionate.


But then they also, like, locked them into mental institutions and like they know them like that. My make it up there is you are not making that up and I'm happy to cut it. They they are so scared of asking that. They said in court that and they claimed in court that Meredith was intimidated by my. Vibrator, she thought that, like, I was just this, like, overly sexual person and she was intimidated by me and therefore we had a fight over my uncouth over sexualized ways, English.


She was English, which was a gift that Viber was a gift from her, a sort of tongue in cheek.


Spencer's like, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, you know, she was like, until you find your Italian stallion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the dykstra's about like I've never used, I never used and I've literally never used it.


I don't know how they are. More charger's. I got more batteries loose like I just had fun fact I had never masturbated until prison.


I can't believe you just said that because I said I can't believe you said that because the other day I was like, I just don't know if you masturbate in person that I masturbated a lot because at a certain point I was like, oh, what did you think about I'm never leaving here.


I better figure this out.


That's fucking so.


She had to time it between guard and rotation's. Yeah. You know what?


They rotated, they masturbated her. They walk past and look in the mirror. So you have to wait until everyone else is staring you. They open up the window and look at himself. I don't think that it would be like if he is really under suicide watch, there is no way that he would have been able to kill himself. I was on suicide watch, and there's no way in hell that I would have been able to kill myself. Did you think about it?


I definitely thought about it. But also, like, it was funny that I thought about all the ways to do it, too, because it was the way that I decided that I would do it. If I did it was I would slit my wrists in the shower with with a broken pen. This way, yeah, yeah. How did you know to go this way? I've seen a movie. Not really, I think Legends of the Fall.


Actually, it's true. I have not seen shots, but I've seen enough movies to know that you're not supposed to go like this. This is you're getting attention.


How much time do you have to masturbate between guard switches?


You have to get really fast. I saw cut tomatoes this morning.


Yeah, it was a deal because like most of the people in the prison were taking medication to just kind of get. Were you on medication? No, I was not. The reason I was not was one, because I've never taken I've been the kind of person who I break my foot. I never want to take medication, not about anything. Now, I'm never on anything as I'm on nine about.


I've proved I don't take ibuprofen and it's not because I'm like weird and like I don't trust like I get I get vaccines like I'm not like against things. I just have really, really high pain tolerance, really, like it's it's weird how little tolerance I have and I don't like being vulnerable when I'm scared. So what I saw was, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.


I don't like being vulnerable when I'm scared.


So if I'm scared, I am want to be as alert as I do. I am hyper vigilant. I want to be I don't even run for president.


Yeah, well, no, not before President Suarez and I was like, carefree, carefree. I didn't think anything bad could happen.


Nothing bad had ever year. You're I'm the oldest.


Oldest. Yep. Nothing that ever happened to me. Nothing that had ever happened to them. Super easy life. In fact, my first thoughts when I went into prison was, oh, I've had such an easy life and like Karma forgot about me. And then like was like, oh my God, we have to do something bad to Amanda.


Just do a lot of bad stuff. The worst. The worst. Like, what's the worst? I can't wait for the best. They so excited.


Well, I mean. Like, I'm so excited for this to be the best thing for you. Yeah, it's continually like hindsight right now.


And what's like what's really sad is like a part of me wonders if he would love me if I hadn't gone through everything.


But that's a weird question and ask because it's like, well, I did and here I am. And he met me after it happened and it is part of who I am.


So the thing that's messed up about that thinking is not the like like the time runs in one direction. So like that sort of counterfactual thinking I don't really believe in. Right. But the part I'm worried about is thinking like, well, this happened to me. It's not of me. And so what you like is a thing about me that that I didn't create. And I think that's wrong because I think that the environment is the cauldron. You know, you're the raw ingredient.


And like not everyone emerges from that experience. The same. That's true. And you emerged who you are because of how you decided to react to all that. So there's a lot of choices you made every single day. So I think you do have ownership of who you became.


You're slowly convincing me of that. And I love you for it. So I see you. As for you, I haven't seen it.


There was an SPU episode. I'm trying to look it up where they said Lexy's sexy, sexy or sexy, and they did an episode based on you. So here's the thing.


I don't care if people do episodes based on what happened to me. Like, that's fine like that. That makes sense. The question I have is, if you are going to directly reference me and you're going to make that parallel, are you going to reinforce a false narrative about me or an actual narrative about me? So like, if the story that S.V. presents is a girl who loves orgies and like and having sex with her drug dealer and her roommates ends up dead and who knows what happened there dika by the way, maybe that's true.


I don't know. But like, if if the ending is well, maybe she didn't. Maybe she did, then you're just reinforcing this, like, narrative that is perpetually keeping me boxed in because people pretend that they don't know what happened. People pretend that there isn't clear, unequivocal evidence that some motherfucker killed, raped and killed my roommate. And I had nothing to do with it. And they like the idea of her sorry. They didn't find semen.


They found his DNA in her vagina that they didn't they didn't test for semen. They didn't test for someone.


There was semen on the pillow that was found underneath her her hips. And they didn't test it. They didn't test it because they didn't care because they had me. And I don't produce I don't produce semen. Yeah. So what they wanted was a scenario where some sex happened and I was the one responsible for it. So semen is irrelevant. Right. So like here I am going, OK, like sure. Tell my story a million different ways all the way you want it.


Except like stop reinforcing this narrative that we don't fucking know what happened because that is bullshit.


And so like I don't know, I haven't seen the last few episode. I love Law and Order. I'll watch that shit all day.


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So sweet lady, you are such a like fucking I. It's very rare that someone makes me laugh. I'm pretty numb. I know where everyone's going. I don't know. It's frustrating to have to be performed around people for comedians. You know, it's like Chris Rock or because you guys are masters of the craft.


So you like to really do the twist. You have to like twist it.


Was it was it Chris Rock or Seinfeld? One of them said, like, when comedians are at an event and another comedian comes the room, they're like a comedian and they can sit in the corner and just not be funny.


Yeah, like we could totally like, dude, what the fuck and not perform, take the mask off and like you are. Sharp as fuck cutting, sorry, it's not that was not a job in touch with him, cutting with him. Your cooking show knives, knives out with a man. I mean, it's a tough one. I can't even compliment you without razor sharp.


Sharp with Amanda Knox. So you should have come out with another set of knives and God is collection that actually happened like the second I was acquitted, the there was a promotional thing with a magazine in Italy that had like the front page, me getting acquitted and a complimentary knife set.


Mm hmm. People love putting knives in my hands or Photoshopping knives into my parents, you know, because you're even near me.


So either you're being murdered by me or you're murdering people with means whose trajectory like Monica Lewinsky does, does she? When people come up to her, are they like Navy? Can she where Navy? Can she ever wear a beret again?


She calls herself beret model. Former model on her to love her for that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I would ever do life modeling, though.


I think I would ever do that.


So Lady Gaga tweeted. Lady Gaga tweeted Famous prison, and I happened to notice that just like as I was, I was doing scrolling, as you do, like over breakfast, like James Brolin or Lady Gaga. I follow Lady Gaga.


I don't think you did. I think you saw it through someone else at the time. Well, maybe someone who I follow retweeted it. I don't know. Hasn't seen Legends of the Fall, haven't seen much in the fall. But I noticed that Lady Gaga tweeted that and I was like, you know, would be funny. I hear you, Lady Gaga, but prison is prison. And and that wasn't meant to, like, call her out.


It was literally just supposed to be like her, like what we're doing right now. Yeah, exactly. And what what made me sad about the reaction was people were like, yeah, Amanda, burn her, burn her. And I was like, I'm not a burner like but that's my Twitter.


It's the mosh pit. You're jumping in a mosh pit. It's the Roman Coliseum. Like you go in there to fight.


It's the same instinct is when the quarantine first happened. And everyone's like it's like being in prison.


And a man is like, it's not like that. Like prison is prison. And like quarantine can suck at the same time, like as this whole quarantine is going on. I'm thinking about the fact that not only are prisoners in prison, but now they cannot even see their families. And if that was happening to me, like I lived for my visitations from my family and they never missed a visitation, how often? It was eight hours a month.


Any iteration of so it was basically like almost once a week, so we had to fly to Italy, they had to fly to Italy, they lived in Italy. So everyone lived in Italy for like a month at a time. And they and they spent that entire month in Italy so they could see me in Perugia, Italy, so that they could see me for eight hours over the course of the time for one hour at a time. So over the course of a month, no.


And yeah.


And the idea that, like, there are people who are going through that process without having that connection to the outside world, that and who are going to covid Petri dish, they're trapped in a petri dish.


So that's me with horses in barns and dogs and anything. Trapped, trapped, trapped.


Yeah, they're literally trapped. We are forcing them to you know, we're exposing them to risks. That is not a part of their sentence.


And is there any country that you're not like where are you the least famous? That is a weird question is can answer this, you know what, Google Trends can answer that. Google Trends Dotcom. Yeah. And then you just look at Trends DOT, Google or Google Earth.


So I'm doing mine. Yeah. See where you're the most famous, where you're the most Googled. Yeah. Yeah. I have a lot of support in Ireland, as it turns out.


Nice islands. Islands. Love you. OK, so except for England, Knox. I don't know what I'm looking at.


Kidnapping you can.


Oh these are related topics you can sort by country and you can start by stage and think, OK, this is like I think we have the data.


This feels like I'm on the dark web and I'm like on trafficking something.


Apparently Alaska is your number one state. A large number of people in Alaska love you then. Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Oregon, Colorado, California.


There's like, you know, because I'm like, what the fuck? Or I'm like I'm like, all right to them say that people should be able to make jokes. Right. I'm a pariah in California because I think that people should be able to get employed in the pandemic. Yep. And they should be able to feed their kids. Yeah, it's a hot take. That I think that and you know what, you're allowed to have it and I'm allowed to be wrong.


Yes, you are, dude, she's wrong when he was wrong about that thing. Cool. That's OK. Help me be right. Not all right. Look, I just want to learn.


OK, so, yeah, it's like it's a little bit sloppy to be using you to.


Why were you trending for weeks? Like you're a little bit of like slow news day. Let's like trudge up Amanda Knox.


I agree. Which is like you're going to take your husband's name. I did not. Part of that is because I didn't change my name when I first came home precisely because I was like people invited me and asked me if I was going to do that. And I was like, I literally did nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with Amanda Knox and everyone else has the problem. So I'm just going to be me and I'm not going to like it felt like I was giving up.


I was giving in to the people who are saying that there was something wrong with being me. And so I was just like, there's not I am assertively telling you that there's nothing wrong.


And why haven't you watched the flight attendant?


Because I've been here hanging out with you. We've been staying up till midnight chatting. And do you like it when people reference you and stuff? Because it's the conceit is you're innocent.


I mean, I. I appreciate when people care about what happened to me. And so I'm constantly like when Kristen showed me that joke about me in 30 Rock, I was like, oh, my God. Like, I was on Christian Shuls radar and I love her and she's great. And or when I watch Tina Fey's other show, The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, like there was so many moments that must have been I felt so seen.


I felt so so orange is the new black didn't go so well.


Orange is the new black. I tried I almost got through one episode without having a panic attack. But it, I, I couldn't. Yeah. I had there are things like especially the prison experience which I haven't talked a lot publicly about because a lot of people don't really care, like the thing that was the most like impactful for everyone else, like the trial and the generally the least interesting thing about you.


Well, like the like the narrative is the thing that everyone cares about. The narrative, like, affected me that it had put me in prison like I have.


So like your sister tatoos, like I have so many.


Do you want to know what these tattoos mean? Sure. Yeah. So this one, which is the camera, that one first of all, both of these tattoos are tattoos that I share with Chris. We have the same ones. This is my skeptic's tattoo. So it's it's the what is the symbol. The the resistor symbol. So the resistor is doesn't allow all the electricity in and out. So I'm being aware of what information is being put in and what information I give out.


I'm just being conscious of that because I need to be skeptical and I need to be thoughtful about the things that I'm allowing to affect me and the things that I'm putting out into the world.


This here is a number of symbols. This one, the van diagram is find common ground. So when I'm talking to someone, I need to find a common ground. If they're making an argument, I need to give them the benefit of doubt and understand the strongest version of their argument, even if they aren't expressing it.


Well, I need to I need to see all that, you and me all the time.


I need to have compassion and I need to be willing to change.


Oh, yeah. Let me take off my horse, Boléro. Yeah. Take it off this one lot.


So this one is white. I got white tattoos because I. Oh, pretty.


You know what the tattoo artist like I wanted white tattoos and they were like no, this one says I love you, which is just for like I love it. How it looks like a scar. It's basically scar. Yeah.


And then I have an anchor right here that's upside down. And I just want to just I love you.


I like you. I think you can ask someone three questions and fall in love with them, like, I think find a way to love them. Not like sexual like I want to fuck you, but you find a way to the common ground of your concentric circles.


Yeah. I mean, I want to understand people and I don't think you can understand people by judging them.


Where do you go on vacation? I love to go hiking. I love to be outdoors. And I also love art museums, which is why ideally I would go to Japan.


Yeah. For for our honeymoon eventually, because that's great food, great outdoors, great culture and great art. That would be my ideal place to to go to Italy.


I am so obsessed. My the most beautiful place in the world I think is Ravello, Italy and Urban.


It's of by one of my dearest friends, Lizzy Caplan got married there. It's so phenomenal. But I. I am. Oh, my God, I just got scared to talk about my mafia. I that was weird. It's like that's I don't give a fuck about Scientology. I'll fuckin go off on Scientology.


But Mafia, I'm like, is there a presence here? No, but I mean, in Italy, like, just from what I learned from the Berlusconi podcast. It all feels very emotional to me, very irrational to me, not that America is that different, and I cannot fucking stand when people from other countries come in and criticize a country they're not from like that always bums me out.


I'm always just like, OK, go back then. Mm hmm. If you hate America so much, go back like let's say we got it because we got it. Thank you.


Like, I'm I'm sure he's like I think he's kind of I think him and Ann Coulter kind of performance artist, you know, I don't even know like they perform.


I mean, they really believe what they believe. I just am sort of like be interesting.


It's like, how do you lean into boring surf? Very brilliant neuroscientist at Northwestern who interviewed me for the female brain. And we just we've talked about you a lot. Oh. About memory and this sort of uncomfortable thing. That memory isn't perfect. And that's not something to talk about during the believe women thing. And you're not really allowed to say that right now as someone who.


But it is absolutely 100 percent true. Yes. And the story as stories get retold, they get punched up, they get change, they get exaggerated.


And you can be convinced that you have a memory that you've never had. Like they've done studies on this.


I've told stories that aren't lying and thought they happen to me. Yeah, but, you know, so without getting specific because it's a case by case basis. Yeah. There are times where it's like I'll see someone accuse, you know, man of rape or assault or something. I'm like, I don't think that happened, but I think something happened to you.


But it wasn't that, you know. I mean and it's like because women carry around this, like, cumulative arsenal of every guy that put his finger up your butt in the bar and every guy that just kind of grabbed your neck and kind of got, you know, that just and then when someone that is click Baity does it, it's a boom.


People can also have incoherent beliefs that they deeply believe and they can be hypocritical. It doesn't mean that they're that, in fact, true.


Like when you talk a lot of people's Ann Coulter or Piers Morgan or whatever, like when when we went back to Italy, Piers Morgan was mad that when you're your last year.


Yeah, last year. What part of Italy?


I went I went to Milan and yeah, I went to more than that is where it was ultimately going to take place. But like it was it. Oh, then at the Italy Innocence Project, which didn't exist when I was going through everything was holding its first ever big public event about wrongful convictions. And they invited me to be the keynote speaker to talk about trial by media pay you none.


But it was, you know, for the Innocence Project. Yeah, it's for the Innocence Project.


And as far as you know, Piers is mad that Amanda's in the spotlight and that it's a you know, if you're a flight.


They paid for part of the part of it, yeah, but you know what, they did give me a personal security guard when I was there, there was Italian. Yes, yeah. But he was great. Really, really great guy.


Love you, Julio.


But, you know, he'd been begging Amanda to come on his show and then he's begging me to humiliate her.


And indeed, when I called him out, he was like, yeah, because you know what I would ask you? And I was like, yeah, you would victim blame me and not listen to anything I had to say because you're actually not interested so quickly.


But it's like. It's what we were talking about before with the guns, it's like it's like the hustle, you know, it's like the Huckster is like it's like feed my family, feed my family.


You know, that's ways to feed your father. What are your motives? What are your fuckin motives?


It's sort of like, you know, we're all just trying to get ours, you know, we're all just trying to fucking.


Do it, but it's like the good and evil, it's the goodwill, and it's interesting because I have this thought that right now with the radical transparency thing that's going on right now, which is like what do you mean by radical transparency, like everything you've ever done.


Right. And and will be held again. There are only as sick as the secrets you keep edge like there is like everyone is on notice. The Damocles sword has been hung.


And the Halloween costume that you wore when you were 17 might lose your job that you deserve to have.


Yeah, it's bullshit and it reminds me of how people use that against me in the courtroom. And it's like, oh, you mean like, oh, Rafael's Halloween costume from a few years ago is being used without a thing? Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. You tell.


I mean, he had a Halloween costume where he was like wrapped up as was in blackface and he was wrapped up as I like, and he was like in a mummy costume and he had like a meat cleaver.


I don't even understand, like, they dug through their MySpace pages. Yeah.


And there are other ways to make psycho holding.


You know, I was playing with, like, one of the machine guns and it was just like, how old were you? I was like 19, 20, like you also were.


This is like almost like the four you were like the martyr of.


Birth of social media right around the same time. Yes, kids got used to be able to do this in private and it wasn't documented.


It was like the first like out of all the people who had just been invented, Twitter was was new of all the people in the world to be kind of the one that got it, because we all did that shit, of course, in front of mirrors.


And we sang in the shower. Yes, we did all the shit.


And I mean, there's some printed felt like there was a printed photo that me and my friend I won't name because I drag them into it, where I was dressed as a geisha because I ordered this beautiful I love Comodo so much.


Yeah. I ordered this beautiful kimono.


I found it. I found a flea market and I put the baby powder and I mix it with water and did the whole thing, the traditional thing I loved. And there's a printed photo of it floating around. And I remember it.


I think like a couple times a week I'm like. That's going to get you yeah, maybe, maybe, yeah, you know, so we're all in this sort of like when am I gonna I just find it fascinating how, like we have.


There are so many reasons for you to, like, have problems with people. And yet we're finding reasons to have problems with people that are not real reason.


Are you into terror management theory at all? Explain or it's I can't eloquently, but essentially we're the only species that knows we're going to die.


So we have to sort of like, you know, engage in all this rigamarole trophies and teams and tribes into symbols and shields with the Scottish emblems that emblazoned on the shield like a Nittany Lions like crust. Thank you. To have posterity to feel some level of immortality, because certainly we'll all imminently die.


Right. And we're also like entering into a sort of regression to a place where we need instead of like being this sort of enlightened world where everyone finds their own meaning and is the author of their own meaning, we are instead regressing back to a world where we want to be told what everything means and who we are so that we can belong and we all just want to be.


I mean, it's just we just want to be loved and we love seeing her and love seeing her and loved.


And the easiest way to do that is to join other people in judging someone who's an outsider.


And also, it's this shame we carry around of like forgive yourself. You know, it's like everyone that thought you did this and got off on it and thought it was titillating and titillating, scandalizing skalla scandalizing.


That's great. Fellating, scintillating, scintillating.


I have a little speech impediment that doesn't allow me to do that. And so like I say, don't ride elephants at the end of every episode because I rode elephants in Thailand and I didn't know. Yep. And I had a framed photo of me on an elephant and then I am like into getting elephants out of circuses and elephants. And then I look through a picture and I'm like, there's, I see the chains on the feet.


And I'm like, oh my God, I did that. Yeah. Yeah, and there's going to be and they're going to be things twenty years now, I've done that where we go. Oh, I didn't know I've done that. And I just feel like I made a best friend is it is Amanda Knox, my new best friend? I wasn't listening. I was playing best fans. I don't know if you guys are friends or not, but I ask I just made a best friend.


Amanda Knox has done two episodes.


We had a two parter with a high level of some tiny bugs. So you're jealous of me and Amanda Knox's best friendship. So you're playing best, best fiends in the corner like a brat.


All my friends and own best fans. So Steans is now that I have her best friend name Amanda, not someone to play with.


She'll play best friends that she would play with me.


She's my best fiend. Amanda Knox is my best. I love these fiends. So where do you play best fiends?


And please don't I play it on my phone when you're playing, when you're getting my Prozac at the Rite Aid. No, I play it day.


When I play it, I play it because it's that game. Remind everyone it's a game on in the App Store.


Yeah, it's an online, like, role playing game on your phone where you get to play in these different kinds of bugs and you fight slugs and you have all of your bugs and they change.


Look, it's it's like role play and you don't have to have sex in the ad.


It's the best different role play. Yeah, I play mine though. I like to when I pop in my my nuggets in my toes trying not to play it with my mother. Tostin so you play best while you're making I guess.


Yeah, of course. I'm so into video games right now like best fiends otherwise I'm just scrolling Instagram. I'm going to be like looking at X's, looking at their new girlfriends. It's just so unhealthy where my brain goes.


Yeah, but your ex is a slug phyto, so I go to best fiends instead.


Taking a contrary action as it is a five star rated puzzle game that's over 100 million downloads. It's like it's the game binge where the mobile puzzle game free to download download best feeds free today on the app.


Bull Appstore, you say download best fans free today on the Apple and Google Play, that's friends without the R best fiends, FYI. And are you my best friend or my best friend?


Amandas my best friend. The best time of your life. So, listen, multivitamins, we're all taking them. No, Benton. Oh, what a Segway.


You're still naked. And we're we've been naked for four for these.


We talk about virtual vitamins on the show quite a bit. Yeah, that's our ritual. Now it's our ritual to talk about the ritual on the show.


I always screw up this ad read. So I'm going to let Benton take this one from here.


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So who's your dream guest on your podcast? Oh, Labrinth, which is can I tell you a in an audio, a velveteen audio experience?


I mean, it is so cool because it is so it's like jazz. It's like jazz. It's just like the pacing is perfect.


We really work hard to make it. I'm a fucking nightmare. I am. So like you were watching something ADR. Did you watch me yell ADR at some movies? No. When I watch movies I'm like ADR ADR looping like, you know, Emily is the worst. I have no notes on your podcast. Amazing.


I can be a listener while I really and I have this Affinia, which is like the you're the I hear things really loudly.


That's amazing.


I really appreciate that because we've worked really hard. You don't say like a lot, which I'm working on, you know, like like like like like like like like wow.


Being forced to like first of all. Yeah. Right.


Of being forced to first of all learn another language and then have to perform for your life, makes you very self-aware. Perform for your life.


Say that again a different way.


Perform for my freedom. So here I am. I have one chance to make my case in front of a court. I'm not allowed to speak the vast majority of the time that I'm on trial. I'm not allowed to even defend myself. The one chance that I do is the one chance that I have. And that ultimately is interestingly, the thing that is going to be the biggest outcome, because people don't judge based on the evidence they judged based on how they feel about you and their gun and your reaction.


Yep. So did you speak? I remember. I remember coming to stop. I hit the space bar when you were it. They said you're innocent and you like kind of collapsed and cried like I had kind of hit the space bar. Did you ever speak to them?


Yes, I right before they went to go do a verdict, like when everyone was doing closing arguments, I had an opportunity to stand up and speak in Italian, in Italian.


Amanda Knox is getting married in forty days, but she's still rocking her old prison uniform.


CNN do better. Yeah, if that's on CNN. Whoa. That is like low hanging.


And also, like, again, I'm doing a lot of things. Why are we looking at why are we making fake headlines from Lexi Knox?


That's like a fuckin if I'm working in a news station, I'm like Nexium. Knocks Fuck. Yeah, that's sexy. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Foxy Knoxy Nexium. Oh, yeah.


For the record, I know nothing about that case. And the only thing I know anything about is conversations about prosecutorial integrity, which is how I was introduced into this whole thing in the first place. So I have no opinion on that case because I love to be funny at how to make crass jokes.


And I'm not such a fucking bummer because you're so fucking no small thanks.


I mean, I can do it around you and then hopefully it annoys me because I'm a it's funny but it annoys comedians. Does it. Yeah. What other people are funny. It annoys us.


Oh I sort of thought of that. Oh I see. Like that's what we do.


Yeah. But you what.


I would feel like you will make me laugh like you will make me like laugh. Like you're, you're very surprising and I think it would be this way even if I didn't have a you in my hippocampus like really Amanda Knox. I wonder.


Like my impression is that people tend to have an already preconceived notion of me that is very easy for me to break because I'm very much not what people imagine.


I am not just like jerking them off the side. You meet them.


Yeah, masturbating. I don't walk in a room like this.


They are also not enigmatic, you know, like that's a that's a false. Yes. I like the idea that I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


Like you're just this in this like you gave a talk at some how much money I'm confessing a while ago.


What was it that paid. It was OK. And then I heard I was overhearing people in the fan line talking to you and I overheard these two girls walking away from the talk going, she wasn't that weird.


Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm supposed to be having, like, wrong reactions to everything in the world because everyone's like, oh, she's must be. People have been told me, oh, you must be histrionic. Oh, you must be like you just might be on the autism spectrum. And I'm like, good job diagnosing me from afar.


You're weird. What's your dream next? Ten years. My dream next ten years is that Chris and I started. And with you clearly were the best threesome ever, and we have a successful show, yeah, podcast while podcast or we're developing a number of shows, including a comedy one about Pryor's.


So about what it's like to be a public facing woman, particularly when you know how we talked about, like there's being famous, by the way, don't even get me fucking started on all the shows that say Whitney.


They want to Whitney Cummings type and don't want me.


That's cute. Well, it means they know you then. I'm like, people know.


People have no idea, do they?


I have no idea how famous you and I walking, but I actually want to do I would be so a little like thing.


Think it's just called. Do you know have you heard of me? Do you know me? Like, I just want to go to like have you ever heard.


I just need to understand where I stand. Sure. I don't care what the answer is, I'm just genuinely curious.


But if we go out to coffee together and yet and then see what happens, I think it would depend on where we go. But I think you would get it. Let's fly that airline together. Oh, my God. Right. What name do they yell?


Yeah, I would be holding your purse in the background.


OK, so making the show, you want a scripted show or you want it loosely scripted, improvised.


I would love a scripted show because Chris and I are writers and I would love a comedy show because I am first of all, I love comedy like I at the end of a long day of dealing with really, really serious shit, which we do kind of like.


I just would like you to stop talking about blood. Well, yeah. And like it or like, there's just like a million ways that people can be victimized. And I empathize with that. I love goofy shit like I know. I know. Weird al songs by heart. You're a goof. So I love goofy shit and like this is my my catharsis at the end of the day is cooking dinner while listening to weird alkene or you're like nerdy.


Yeah. And then watch Dr. Hill.


Yeah. Now Dr. Fu and I don't, I don't know huvelle. Don't worry about it.


I don't really know what I look like. A Whoville. Yeah. I don't know. But very different than huvelle. Yeah. Yeah. That's just sci fi. It's just like goofy silly ulos I play.


Oh my lord. So OK. Sorry you didn't invite me to bring costumes are you. Dungeons and Dragons. We play Dungeons and Dragons. My character is named. You're often laughing. We've my first ever so are like this is how we knew we were in love and whatever. Like his first birthday that I was a part of. I organized with his brother, who is a professional knight who jousts and everything. We orchestrated a whole day of laughing where he was a futuristic, like sci fi agent.


I woke up in the morning. Yes, your perspective.


And I stumbled to the bathroom. And there's this there's this weird outfit there. It's like red leather coat and a pair of, like, weird futuristic sunglasses. And she's gone.


And I'm like, where did it get store? Well, good.


And then I take a shower. And then as the mirror fogs up, I see that someone has written on the mirror. See you next time, Coco. And I'm like, What is this? And then I get a phone call from like an altered voice that's like meet in the cafe. It's there's this whole, like, adventure planned out that we organized all of it.


We wrote a story was the line producer production and we wrote a whole story. We got all of the friends in on it. Everyone was a character. We organized the whole neighborhood. We set up like things for him to, like, find throughout the neighborhood because he had like a secret mission we like. It was a whole day worth of like, everything's not secret.


I guess not. Yeah, I'm just trying to get in your LARP. Yeah. Know, but like, it was so great. And like his like his introduction to me was like I had this like crazy mask on and he had to like battle me in a battle of wits of like laser chess.


And then once he did like it was all everyone had a character and it was super fun.


So what's your franchise? What's our franchise? Harry Potter. Yeah. Oh, yes, my franchise. That, like, got me through a lot, actually, like Harry Potter really helped me out. And when I was in prison, because I've read the books so many times that reading them in Italian helped me learn Italian.


Whoa. Yeah. And like tampons and stuff now.


Yeah, we had pads so we had these giant thick ass pads and we had to like, you know, ration them and everything like it was a thing. And a lot of people are mentally ill in prison and some of them would like ration. They're used for sure.


So it's like screen. Yeah, it's it's like prison is. I don't reckon that we're off.


I don't recommend it. There's a comedian, Stephanie Escada, who I came up with and she tweeted one time she went to jail for a night or something, and she just tweeted, this is like back in the day, like MySpace days. And she just tweeted, Prison is no joke. It was so funny.


Like at the time.


It's like you're in jail, not prison still.


Yeah. She said jail is no joke. Jails no joke is also true. You knowing the difference. I'm pathetic. And then. OK, so you're Harry Potter, huge Harry Potter fan. OK, yes, I'm a couple of and then so Lord of the Rings are we doing that love?


Lord of the Rings didn't grow up reading the books as much as Harry Potter. Heated and lovely. What's the point of Lord of the Rings? What's the point of the Odyssey? Yes, good question. I fuck with the Odyssey. Yeah, that's why you should fuck with Lord of the Rings, but I was I was so young when I read it, it made me feel smart. Mm hmm.


That's also a good reason for this quest thing is. Yeah. And then things just happen and then they happen. As a kid, I loved also I loved that.


And so I the only way that I could, like, deal with scary things, I could read about scary things like RL Stein, scary things I couldn't watch. Are you afraid of the dark? Are you afraid of the dark scary member?


Oh, my God. Like, I try to watch side tales from the dark side, no. Is this another way of come through Tales from the Dark Side? It was like these little horror like. Featurettes, there were like 12 minutes or something, and there was one that was a blob that was in the middle of a lake and these like hot girls and guys that deserve to die, they fucked and were sexual, right. Went to the lake to fucking drink.


And this blob just like ate them. And there was one where the cat kept chasing the guy and the cat. I think this is my thing with cat problem with cats. And a cat didn't know yet.


I guess it's like I have a like a little bit of like a fear of that. It's going to go in your mouth and it goes in his mouth and kills him. I'll send it to you. Oh, you guys have heard of this, OK? I have not seen Old Yeller wasn't great either.


So this aired from 83 to 88. I was born in eighty seven. But did they rerun it. Sure. That was on reruns. Yeah. Yeah I'm sure it was on reruns.


Yeah. Like we do just train our children to want to be tension and fear.


I mean it's the Grimm's fairy tales. Fucking scary as fuck. We love it. Yeah. And their morality tales.


And then yours is fantasy too. I mean it's like all crime is. It's like it doesn't matter if it's true or not. I just write it's tales from the Crypt, Tales from the dark side. It's a puzzle. Yep. I love. And also it's like a statement about human nature. Like I think that the saddest thing about the statement of human nature that people tried to push on to the story of my roommate being murdered and me being accused was that there was some problem between me and this other woman that, like all of this pain and death and destruction was the result of women hating other women.


Oh, and that was so not true. It's it. And also it's we are people stay in power by. Separating, making it impossible for collusion to happen, so and everyone knows that my ancestors, West Virginia and all of the slaves that came in to work in the coal mines from Italy, from Ireland, Scotch, Irish, Scotland, from they kept them separate so they could not collude.


You know, that was like the unions I'm sorry. The way of avoiding them, unionizing, rising up. That is how that is how they keep us and. This business has done it every sort of I think business does it in some way is just keep the web and this is what me to happen. Everyone's like I think it was Andy Letterman who's a comedian, dear friend, who was like, boys will be boys, but girls will be girls.


So for your wedding, you made a spaceship.


So for our wedding, the wedding theme was time travel.


And of course, if you're going to sing no string theory. No, no. It was just general real life.


I mean, are we. Oh, is time travel possible? I mean, sorry, that was dumb. That was dumb.


Dumb as Brody Stevens If you don't get me your dumb Brody Stevens, one on one comedian, I will introduce you to a cop killed himself.


Oh, Brookmyre. He won't introduce me to him at all, and so string theory for, like, masturbatory what we go.


Yeah, yeah. It didn't need to, like, make sense. What needed to happen was we needed to have accidentally destroyed the timestream continuum and all of our family members and friends needed to come together to be a part of this ceremony to restitch space and time. So that was like they were scattered throughout space and time.


And that's why we arrive at the wedding from different time periods. Yes. And they so there were sort of a bunch of puzzle.


I had a friend who showed up as a dinosaur. So like there people weren't even human anymore. Like this was easier. Yes, a meteor, so the the died. Oh, yes, yes, yes, the ice age following the meteor.


Yes, yes, the sun and posed by having a meteor hit your crash land in the backyard. Yep. I was sewing Wizard Cloke one evening and out of nowhere. This like the sound of what what I thought was like North Korea bombing us, like came out of loudspeakers, like just Pushka.


And he's like, oh my God, I think something landed in the backyard. So we went out there and ate music starts playing, which is where all these people got that right. TMZ saw the proposal video and assumed that it was E.T. related. All the E.T. that had to do with it was that it was the music at the end of the movie that was the music playing as I was discovering this meteorite. And inside this meteorite was a broken labarge, right.


PLAC from the Encyclopedia Galactica many, many, many, many thousands of years in the future that described our future together. And we took this idea of there's something happened in the future that launched something from the future to the past and it broke the timestream continuum. We took that idea and we built an escape room wedding where all of our guests had to arrive in costume from different time periods they chose. And we had a ceremony where we didn't walk down the aisle.


We had to be rematerialize how to make it about me, how it was about me and my body. What about it?


We we had to rematerialize in these specially constructed canisters that were constructed in the future to rematerialize lost timestream continuum space objects, which was us. So our family members had to like input their DNA. A future tech support person from the Encyclopedia Galactica had to orchestrate the wedding. He was our officiant. There was laser light saber battles. There was like it was a whole thing. And we had puzzles that we made ourselves.


So we had a year making puzzles. We spent a year making puzzles, escape from puzzles, escape from puzzles. For every single table at the wedding, everyone had to solve their puzzles in order for Chris and I to successfully be married and rematerialize. So that was the idea of the wedding.


And all of our friends and family say it was the last fun thing because then the pandemic happened. We were so fortunate that it was February twenty ninth, February twenty ninth right now. Leap Year, Leap Day, Mark de la Day, Leap Day.


It was the day we took the lead a better day for time travel like the day that only exists every four years.


Yeah, names are incredibly important. You know that. I was almost named Amanda. Hey they named me first.


Oh that's so weird that I just remember that. Hey, I remember that's when I'm here a couple of years. I asked my I asked my mom. I think everyone struggling with their relationship with their mother, ask your mom questions about herself. She knows more than you, even if she's hurt your feelings, even if she's a nightmare, even if she's a mess, she's doing the best she can with the tools she has. Forgive her and ask her questions about her wedding.


How did he do it?


Were you scared? And I asked. I finally figured that out.


Georgia said to me she was just like, well, what about your mom? Like, what? How would she know? What tools does she have in her toolbox? And I was like, I'm like, she's you know, what? If you had a kid right now, how would you you'd be a mess, too. And I asked her, like, about her wedding and stuff.


And were you in the womb? At the wedding in the womb, I was in my mom's womb at the wedding, I was like at the wedding.


Well, let's talk about epigenetic imprinting at some point.


I want to know more. What what what did you learn from your mom?


My mom was stood up at the altar, cancelled the wedding the day before, two rings, two engagement rings that I am now making into a necklace like things that you're just like I didn't know.


How would I know? I was only thinking about myself. All I was thinking about is that you're not good at a good enough mom.


Mm hmm. And I thought, oh, oh, she I used to. And everyone's always like, why do you have all these, like Christmas decorations and parties everywhere?


And then that this and the pomp and circumstance and the gifts in the book. Yeah. My mom was in public relations for Bloomingdale's. Neiman Marcus and I grew up in malls.


I grew up in shopping malls and shopping malls are all about fucking decorating for holidays and I to carry right on time.


I had license if we could afford that.


How do the malls how are they able to afford it every day at five p.m.? No, it's it's for them. They get it free. I mean, it's promotion. It's like, oh the I'm obsessed with casinos and mall psychology, the smells, the lack of clocks, the music, the air. You know, they yeah.


They, they both give me incredible anxiety because I feel trapped. I know that they're trying to trap you. Yeah, casinos, no, no, I've been to casinos and you got like haunted houses.


No, no.


Oh, very bad. I again, I feel very trapped, and I don't like feeling trapped. I don't do well enclosed space.


It's interesting because I have that, not because. Because of the ancestral coal mining stuff, a lot of people that were in coal mines, because you have to go like really a mile down in an elevator, totally in the coal mine explosions. I mean, horses were down there. Jesus, I didn't know they would fit. And I guess they make big enough horses would go down, die.


Inhaling the whole thing with the lungs, so it's like, I think a family constellation is in your future. I know it sounds.


Are you saying that I just look like I'm about, like bursting like bursting with like family constellation is like the ancestral trauma you carry.


Some of it is who we feel we buie find. Some of it is makes total sense.


Have I fully told the horse carriage story Dave. Come on, you talked about be serious. You oh, you just did without me. I think that was the first time you've ever thought about saving the course characters.


Yeah. I mean, it's like. When, like, what is your lot like, what is the unfinished business, you know, of your ancestry? And we look at herding dogs and last night we were watching a video about the sheep in the all I was looking at was the herding dogs. And I was like that because herding dogs, that's the only way they can experience the world. And I always discourage people from buying these Aussie shepherds, Australian shepherds, because they they don't have a flock there like they have been stressful for them.


Where's the flock?


Right. And then they try to, like, herd humans and then they get into trouble because they're like nipping at humans.


Your dog is barking. You've got to let them bark. Dude, that's just in there. They're doing their job.


You never declaw a cat. We're like people like huskies, like, oh, so much work. It's like, why did you get a husky? Like, they have it in there.


They get dopamine from why doesn't it just exist the way I want it to exist. Yeah. Why can't you already be a trained eye, aren't you?


Might they be my toy human woman's animal. Yeah.


No, I get real time now.


It makes me upset. Like I genuinely feel like when people I get I feel bad again, like I'm drawn to the thing that has the least agency in the room. And when I see people who treat animals like toys, I go off feeling like they're they have feelings like they like that.


It's just I get I go I mean, you I mean, I drove through a fire to try to get a draft. I mean, I'm like I go nuclear because I was in a fire as a kid.


It's like we owe it to ourselves and everyone around us to figure out what the fuck we come from. Hmm. You know what I mean?


And what we're carrying, the guilt. We're carrying the shame. We're carrying the unfinished business. Like that's your job to figure out. It's not my problem. This isn't mine. This is your bag. It's in your backpack. Take the shit out of your backpack and get rid of it. So the family constellation, which is I'm sure we talked about this a little bit with Tasha, like I'm sure it's part Fwy, but who gives a fuck?


You know, I have not heard about this placebo effect is in effect. Right. It's maybe.


Can someone look up what the. Because I always say like sixty percent and like, who decides these things, as my dad would say. Like what?


Pew. I feel like Pew is the only one I respect for some reason.


Why is that been around for a long time. You Attenberg. They've consistently done what they feel like, studies that feel, that feel and, you know, I mean, does it feel true?


Yeah, so I'll say it in short, because I think next time maybe we do a family constellation if nothing will get a joke out of it.


Oh, yeah, I'm German. Let's go. Let's go there. Have you not done your ancestor in your lineage?


I know my great grandfather was in the Nazi army. So like I know that like that's a thing like I've seen pictures of him in uniform. Like that's a thing that makes me so sad. I mean, and at the same time, like, here's my my Oma who was in Austria while this is going on. Her mom died because a bomb fell on her and she was starving to death. And like all of that is like real. And it's interesting how there's like this generational gap of wanting to talk about it, like our generation wants to talk about it.


But the generation, my generation or even my mom's generation doesn't want to talk about it. They want to move on and they don't want us to be carrying their burden, but they don't realize that we are carrying it anyway. So you might as well talk about it just as fuck. Mm hmm.


So I when I go to New York, you've seen me. Were you with me?


Only when I was at I think it was like Fallon or Letterman or something. And whenever I in New York, it's hard for me because the horse carriages, I just can't do it. I, I have ridden in a horse carriage before.


That's no better, have I?


I think in Charleston I've done it like multiple times because I'm like horses. I am obsessed with Lex Freedman.


If I can ever get him to have the time for me in every way like Tesla programs.


What's his job. I scientist up at MIT, professor the good sexiest Russian and to make robot horses so that we can have certain are so much cooler.


And by the way, that's where fuck in Asia and then people will ask if they can touch it.


Robot. Right.


Robot restaurant. I want to show you. Cool. So robot fucking horses. Great. Do it man. Which is a whole other conversation about robot brothels and women. And does it exacerbate or does it is it cathartic? And so I would cry every time I saw a horse here, just like I would like fly forward in a taxi cab.


And I had to cancel Letterman when I was not famous, like when I was not.


I should be so lucky. Mm hmm. I would be like, I can't I was in a it was like a muscular, you know, the body that heals itself is that the trauma release, but.


And I just had so much shit with with seeing horses pull carriages, and it was just like so upsetting and so upsetting and then I. You know, was just like, I'm just I'm emotional, I'm crazy, I'm a woman, like I'm on my period. I'm just on my IBS.


Like, it's probably just like I'm just jealous of someone. I'm sensitive. And then my dad died and I said to my. Uncle, like a couple months later, we were talking and I was just like making conversation after I had done the family constellation, I had done a family consultation where this woman came over. I'll give you her information. She should come on with you next time. And she makes you stay on a piece of paper, like with your ancestors names on it.


And it was just like, what am I doing? This is so fucking L.A. This is ridiculous. What we do. Are we going to get charcoaled toothpaste next?


I mean, it sounds like what is the game where you put your hands on the search board? No, no, no.


It's like trauma twister, which was like the most sexual experience of my childhood. Of course, like t bang ball is like just under the guise of a math game.


Yeah, that's like dots.


Dots like, are we fucking jumping on this?


And and then I don't I just don't know a lot like I just no one talked about it and I was like and she was like your great great grandfather. Did something unforgivable, and I was like, of course, they cheat, all men cheat. Dinosaurus Issel tracks alcoholic and then your mom, Graham Gregori, her mother used the tactic of withholding love to punish. I do that.


It's this person just saying this stuff out of the blue like she's sitting on a lot of questionnaires based on things you've written down or she just bullshitting you.


I wrote I answered a bunch of questions. I'll have to find them.


Is there documentation that, you know, a person used love to with withholding love, etc.?


No, it's by the way, so it's not. It could also be astrology, which is. Yeah.


Oh, she was doing like I read a Taurus that works to Pisces that works. Do they all work? If I want them to work, I can like.


So it's basically like whatever pings you as true. It's not like I'm fucking in. I want to heal. I want a new story. I want a new story. I'm sick of my story. My story is not working. Like just rewrite it, refresh, update the software like I'm just in pay you by check. Fuck it. I'll drive to a weird hotel in Venice and pay you buy bitcoin. Don't pay with pay pal or pal hilar with a little bag of rocks.


Sure. Like I was just like anything to stop crying in my car and then she was like on your, your. Yeah. Your dad's great great grandfather did something unforgivable and you're carrying his guilt and it's an unfinished, it's unfinished business. You're King is unfinished business.


Do you feel like you needed a reason why though? Like the thing that I found from meditating is that the reason why we feel or think anything doesn't have to make sense. It can just be something that appears to you. And I don't need a reason to know. Like I don't need to know why I'm feeling bad to know that I need to do something about it. Like, I know that I don't need to take an action.


You need you don't need to take it. You're saying you don't need to take an action?


Well, I don't need to, like, seek out my ancestors to understand that sometimes I feel shitty about myself or about the world. Like, I just sort of allow myself.


My brain needs for if I need proof, you need a reason to true data.


I need data as it can be fake.


And I'm having changed my mind and I'm happy to be wrong. But terror management worm at the core one on one, like I need some I need a while to make my head on.


And so I need a scapegoat.


Oh no.


You're the monster one eighty and then. Yeah, no, I didn't follow you because I was in my own shit at the time, of course.


And then as we all are, I think some people followed me just because they were in their own shit and I was a good distraction. So that's fine. Like I get it.


Such a good punching bag. It's got a very punchable face. We can't look and so to make a long story fucking so long, but I think the cards are running out of cameras, Dave, getting in there.


Let me just and wrap this up. Is that and then did something and I'm talking to my Uncle Mark, who is amazing, just amazing. And. I'm like, hey, I did this family consultation thing, I'm a dumb leotard from L.A. and family constellation and I'm like, my life is so hard. White woman from my life is hard.


And what's up with my great great grandfather? And he was like, oh yeah, he died of cirrhosis tracks. Got it. He he.


Worked in West Virginia, made a part that adhered horse carriages together, like he's the guy that figured out how to make the axe and stick together.


It was like manufactured the manacles, manacles.


I don't know what it means, but manacles. What's a miracle? You know that. Yeah.


Yes. Don't flirt with me.


And then you know about the sword of Damocles, but you don't want to monarchal, which I did.


And and I was like, well, everyone probably that was everyone's business back then. And you don't I mean, like everyone worked in horse care, everyone, you know what I'm saying? So it's like I'm always like challenge and challenge. And then he was like, no, no, no. Like he was the guy that like, figured out how to get the wheels to stop going like, oh, you know what, though?


He didn't invent the album. He did not. It's pretty cool that he didn't do that. That's pretty cool. He wasn't off and on. Yeah.


With that right. Feel better. I actually it's a team effort. It's a team effort. So it's like.


It's like it's like let's be let's go on this hike and go all these wrong trails. Wrong, wrong, wrong where we're wrong and then get this amazing sunset at the end.


You know, it's, you know, it's true. And this is what all of our ancestors have done, something unspeakable, all of that, all of them.


And they had to to survive.


None of us is is untouched by somebody doing something fucked up because that's human.


Are we used to watch? Tiger's tear apart human beings in a ring. Sam Harris, we're no different than those people.


We just do it now on Twitter. Egging people's brains are no different.


Our brains, our modern humans have been around. They have not.


It's astonishing that we still don't do that, if you want for Christmas gifts sapiens.


Oh, yeah. Yeah, we read. We read, which was the one that we read by Yuval Hari Sapience. We already read and then Andromeda's.


We only read him. I was going to mispronounce it. Have you read The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Hate. No. Really? Really.


Michael Malazan. That's probably the worst I've heard in a while.


Best book we read that the new role, the righteous mind, the righteous mind, it kind of gets into why politics and everything. Everything is sports teams and also the like where the worm at the core I'll get into. I would love to read. I have heard of that.


But like moral intuitions where they come from, like I love talking to people and they just want to feel safe and protected in love at all times. Yes, but all of us feel it in a different way, which is interesting.


Q. Man, you win. Who won this one? Who won this podcast? Emily There you see it. But here's the thing. We don't have some one of us doesn't have to be pegging the other.


We can be making there even those in the bubble. I feel it when it happens. I definitely feel that there's got to be privacy. Dave, hands on the back of that and just go, I'm no father, don't ride elephants, Labrinth, it's plural, Spotify, Stitcher, everything, all wherever you get it.


Thank you. Follow Amanda. I do have some notes on your social media. Cazaly's. It's very audacious as it as of course it is. Yes.


I am very cautious and I would love to be less. He's trying to convince me to be less cautious. You want me to put that Carol Baskin Danson?


I want us to do a little series. Of all the things you recorded I never posted did. Why? OK, because I have problems with Tiger King that are so far beyond the Carol bioscan.


Part of it, the part for me that, like, hurt the most was when the momma tiger gave birth. And then they immediately know. They always do go to kabaddi.


Always they have to they kill him right away. Competing always, always, always, always, always. If anyone is touching a like an apex predator lion tiger, it is always abuse. Always, always, always. If you see it on the morning news, if you see it on the fucking side show in the Ozarks, if you see a human being getting anywhere near touching a tiger, that means the mom was killed immediately.


Black Tiger, white jaguar, black tiger. I don't give a fuck. These people are nuts. Antle Malibu wines for I don't give a fuck, dude. It's all abuse. And it also suppresses their immune system because they can't get the breast milk.


Yeah, they're, they're, they're Mollenkopf and they die and they are also on drugs. So any time you're taking a picture with a lion in Thailand or a tiger in Thailand, they're always drugged and white tigers are always inbred and cross-eyed and can't hear or see. And it's all bother's fucking daughters and brothers and shit.


I know it's I'm into deep turns out. And if you guys Caroline's lions and tigers and bears icom because it's also important orch, it's also important because NLB is people, Whitney, anal abuse.


There's so much other shit going on in the world.


We children learn how to treat powerless beings. Yep.


From what the way we treat animals. They only care about animals. They don't care about adults. Yeah. Yeah. So they learn. Oh we put them in cages.


That's what Yuval Harari says about how future robots may treat humans, right? Yeah. You want a clue? Look at how we treat animals. Yep. How do you think the superintelligence will treat humans. Yeah. Not the best. What's your note on her on her social media?


He only wants to be justified is like validate me, validate me fucking sparkly and effervescent and just you just like tell me to pop. It's on it.


Your your Amy Sedaris and your. Rachael Ray and your Nigella Lawson and your you want some grit, Amy Poehler, and you're like you're just so wildly talented. It's so many things you remind me of. My dearest friend in the world, Jennifer Goodwin's sister, Melissa Goodwin, who's an animator who animated the end of the female brain credits. She animated this. I'll send it to you this. She worked on Robot Chicken and The Simpsons.


And you're just so wildly to House of Style, which was my favorite thing. I'm going to stop saying that on MTV, which was like how to turn genes into napkins, how to turn an old pair of jean shorts into, you know.


Yeah, totes haven't heard that in the hot cool means.


Like, you just have so much your you would be like a lifestyle guru. Like who's the current one.


The challenges, the one the challenge for me in that is that that would require me to be constantly remembering, to document instead of being present.


And I spend a lot of time just sort of being you're not on your phone, you're not a phone person. I try to be on my phone as little as possible so that I can be privy to.


So if I had, like a professional, I want her to follow me around and like, do that. That's the challenge for me is like I am not obsessed with my appearance. I'm obsessed with my experience. And if my appearance gets in the way of my experience, it's the appearance that has to make you uglier.


I mean, I don't know what I look like in drag.


I'll be dressed up as Depression era hobos for a. Oh, yeah. Birthday party.


We did take a picture of that and then she got shamed for looking ugly, so being insensitive.


And Joe Rogan told me about how and we're wrapping up Dave, I swear. I swear we're war two German facial dueling scars. Men, sir, scars in World War One portraits. So they used to scar on purpose so that they would look dope.


Mm hmm.


I always have wanted one of those through the eyebrow ones. Yeah.


I mean, I don't know if you've noticed, but I have a scar on my face like I have. I can part of it's hot. It's like. How did you get that. Yeah.


Punchable face Luling scars are can you pronounce on a German Miss Cynosure in German and were seen as a badge of honor since as early as nineteen twenty five alternative men search scars, fencing scars. They were popular among upper class Austrians and Germans to some lesser extent involved in app.


And I just love how they're like, I'm not going to actually duel, I'm just going to get the cool duel scar.


Yeah, I was going to be sexy.


It's like my offspring, like, just like the reminder that we are animals.


Let's just keep that in mind when we are mad at people and hate people and want to destroy and humiliate and embarrassed and ashamed and.


Oh, I do. I remember that all the time. That's why I don't get mad at people, animals. A lot of people have been hurt and a lot of people want to make sense of things that don't make sense and they put it on other people.


I love it.


It's a good podcast like this one. Don't ride elephants. I love you guys. We'll do it again. Do it again.


We have to.