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From NPR, this is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedantam. Summer is usually a time when we relax and reset. But this year, with a pandemic and a recession, unwinding seems out of reach, it feels like an accomplishment if we even know what day of the week it is. Every day feels like Blur's day. So for this year's You 2.0, our annual series about reinvention, we are focused on reframing our circumstances.

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We may not be able to change some of the most important facts of our lives right now, but we can't change how we experience them, these episodes will give us new ways to think about loss and empathy that help us set goals that we can actually reach and take stock of the bigger picture. We start our series with the pursuit of happiness and a story that takes us back to 2008. Psychologist Liz Dunn was invited to go on a vacation.

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The man she had just started dating and three of his high school buddies wanted to go on a road trip with their girlfriends.

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They planned to drive an RV from their home in Vancouver to the Arctic Ocean.

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Liz said, yes, it seemed like an adventure. It sounded like fun. It felt romantic. It was a mistake.

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I would rank it as probably top three worst vacations ever.

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One by one. The other girlfriends decided that an RV trip to go swimming in the Arctic Ocean was not their idea of fun when the RV rolled out of town. It was just Liz and four men who thought they were having the time of their lives.

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So it was kind of like living through one endless day on this highway that never ended with four Canadian men who were increasingly driving me crazy.

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That road trip led lives to important insights about human nature. Today, we look at how things that start out fun can turn miserable and how our minds can take miserable experiences and remember them as fun. Anticipation, memory and the winding road to happiness this week on Hidden Brain. This message comes from NPR sponsor sales force from the smallest InterAction's to the biggest procedures, every health care moment matters. Learn how to offer connected and personalized patient experiences at Salesforce.com health care.

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Elizabeth Dunn is a social psychologist at the University of British Columbia, along with Michael Norton.

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She's the author of Happy Money The Science of Happier Spending. Liz told me that at one point in the interminable journey to the Arctic Ocean, she decided she'd had enough.

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She tried to escape. Yeah, I think this is one of my low moments of my life, like my phone, my my smartphone didn't work there because we are so far north. So I sought out a payphone. This was shortly after the waste disposal system in the R.V. had sprung a leak. And I was just like, I am over this vacation. And I called Air Canada and I said, how can you get me out of here? And they said, well, we can't get you back to Vancouver and my home, but we could get you to Edmonton.

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And I was like, can you put that ticket on hold for me? Because at that very moment, all I wanted was to get out of there.

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Did you actually manage to catch one of those flights? What happened?

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You know, by the time I got back from making this phone call, the guys had realized that I was losing it and they made a plan to try to make things better for me.

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So one of my friends who's a cancer researcher took me aside and he's like, let's have a nice science talk that will make you feel better.

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You know, other guys were like, why don't we why don't we, like, read women's magazines and talk about them like they had somewhat misguided ideas of what was going to be helpful, but like they were really trying. And so then I was like, OK, you know, they convinced me, like, it's almost time to turn around. Like, you can do this. And, you know, in the end, I did make it through, but I will never go back when when the waste disposal system sprang a leak.

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I understand this is how you derived a nickname on the trip. Tell me about that. Yeah.

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So the guys nicknamed me Blackwater. Liz, Blackwater refers to waste disposal in an RV. Let me be clear. I had nothing to do with the RV waste disposal system springing a leak. But for whatever reason, like this name stuck to me and they still refer to me that way. Like this is now. It got away.

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And did you actually go did you see the Arctic Ocean? Did you go swimming in it? What did you do when you got there?

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Yeah, so we did. When we finally made it to the Arctic Ocean, we did get to go swimming in the Arctic Ocean. We got to see belugas in the wild. So that was, you know, very cool and very special.

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So here's the question that arises from this whole trip. You were obviously miserable through much of the trip. But looking back on it now, do you sort of think of the trip as being a miserable experience or do you think of it as being a rewarding experience?

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Well, I think that it makes a good story. And so I appreciate that. Like, it's this aspect of my life that, you know, was very unique. Not many people have swum in the Arctic Ocean or got in to hang out with belugas in the wild. And so it was this unusual experience that contributed to sort of my overall life story. It also is this really powerful source of bonding for me and those four Canadian men, one of whom I ended up marrying.

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And so we still talk about it. It's when one of us is going through a rough time, we pull up pictures from that trip and talk about it.

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So we really enjoy the memory of it. But, you know, I still remember that I was not having a good time while it was happening.

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Hmm. So there's been this really rich debate in the field of psychology, but also just as people have thought about their own lives, about the value of spending your money on buying things versus buying experiences. And I'm wondering, when you think about an experience like your trip to the Arctic Ocean, how does that dovetail or contradict this larger body of research that has looked at the differences between experiences and things?

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Well, the research on the value of buying experiences really suggests that a lot of the benefit that we get from buying experiences comes after they're over. So, you know, one of the great things about experiential purchases is that we can reminisce about them. And I really do enjoy reminiscing about this experience. Of course, many experiences are enjoyable in the moment, but that's not necessarily where the real value of experiential purchases comes from. Instead, the big sort of benefit of experiential purchases over material purchases seems to come after they're over, which to me is is pretty interesting because, you know, material things stick around.

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So I am not like a frequent close shopper, so I literally still have clothing that I had on that trip. Like that stuff has stuck around. That experience, of course, is gone. It's, you know, long since over. But, you know, it lives in my memory. And it turns out memory is a great place to store stuff. Right. So when we store stuff in our closet, it kind of gets outdated. It gets torn up over time.

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But our memories have this amazing property of being able to make things more positive or at least funnier over time, because we've retold this story so many times, like just starting to think about it kind of makes me laugh.

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And so that. It's kind of the magic of experiential purchases. Perhaps you've noticed the magic of experiential purchases in your own life and in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, perhaps you are wistful about their absence. So many of the events that marked the summer baseball games, concerts, overseas travel are not an option for Americans right now. Even banal outings that we used to look at with indifference or dread running an errand to the mall or bringing our kids to soccer practice.

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These things are now tinged with nostalgia. These sorts of feelings have been accentuated by the pandemic, but they predated as well. Liz cites a study that tracked students going on a three week by trip across California.

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During the trip, 61 percent reported that the trip was worse than they expected. But after the trip was over, only 11 percent of the students said the trip was disappointing. You know, our memories are great at sort of making the best of things. And, you know, in my case, the Arctic trip was like so far from the kind of vacation that I would like to take that it's hard for my mind to completely bridge the giant chasm between, like, my ideal vacation and that trip.

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But like most other vacations that we take, have a much smaller sort of a little gap between what we ideally would have wanted and the way things actually work out. So, you know, maybe you go to Hawaii and it rains for several days, but like your memory can kind of focus on the days that you were out on the beach and forget about those days you were stuck inside. Or you can think about how it is actually kind of fun sitting around eating salt and vinegar chips and playing cards.

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And so when there's a pretty small gap between how we expected to feel and how we actually felt, that's where our minds can kind of jump in. And the sort of positive expectations that tend to surround our experiences can actually sort of paint over the little bits of negativity that might have occurred during the experience itself. I'm also struck by the fact that when experiences are strongly negative, when in fact when we have perhaps not traumatic experiences, but when we have negative experiences like your trip to the Arctic and had all these downsides, when you look back on it, there is something sweet about it.

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I mean, you cite the Roman philosopher Seneca, who said the things that were hard to bear are sweet to remember. And there is some truth in that, isn't there, that that once you've been through something really difficult, there's actually a special pleasure that comes from thinking back on it.

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Absolutely. I mean, one experience that really stands out to me is on that Arctic road trip, we did this thing.

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There's this bar in the Canadian Arctic you can go to and you do a shot while having pressed up against your lips, the toe of a dead man.

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And this is like this classic sour cocktail experience that that people like to have.

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And let me tell you, it is not pleasant, like having a dead toe up against your face.

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I can't recommend it, but we still have this fun memory of this thing we all did together. And it's fun to sort of remember and reflect on it. And I feel this real connection with the Arctic because I had this quintessential experience of the sour cocktail. As a non Canadian, forgive me for asking what seems like an obvious question, but how does a bar obtain a dead person to get a death toll pressed, pressed up against you while you're having your coffee?

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So there's this whole legend surrounding it about like the first guy that decided to donate his toe to the bar. But then it became such a tradition and a legacy that now they have a long line up of toes, people who are waiting for the honor of their toe being taken upon their death to be included in this magical cocktail experience.

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So we're going to talk a little bit later in the conversation about some of the wise and brilliant things that Canada does, but I'm actually going to put this one on the other list, Liz, if you don't mind it. It doesn't seem to be my cup of tea, but you say that.

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But then if you experience it, you'll have this great story and you'll remember it fondly.

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So you've made a case really in the last few minutes of why it's smart to spend money on experiences that in some ways we we anticipate experiences very strongly. We look back on experiences very fondly that give us great stories to tell. I want to spend a moment talking about the potential benefits of spending money on physical objects as well. You once wrote a study titled The Unsung Benefits of Material Things, where you analyzed people's satisfactions with material purchases and experiential purchases.

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What did you find?

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Yeah, so this study came about because after I wrote my book, Happy Money in the first chapter was called By Experiences, I gave it out to a bunch of the grad students in my department and this very smart young grad student named Aaron Wiedman came to see me and he's like, you know, I love the book. I think Chapter one was wrong. He's like, I think this whole buy experiences recommendation is bunk.

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And so I was like, OK, great, sure. I just published this book. And you think the first chapter is completely wrong.

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But let's let's talk about that. So we ended up teaming up to to conduct the study. And his his insight was that previous studies had captured how people felt about their past experiential purchases in their past material purchases. But they hadn't necessarily captured people right in the moment as they were enjoying, you know, meaningful material and experiential purchases.

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Hmm.

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So, Aaron, Aaron was really dedicated and he actually devoted his Christmas vacation to studying this issue. So he connected this study where we asked people to tell us about either a material thing or an experience that they had received for Christmas. And he began texting them three to five times a day every single day, starting on Christmas Day. And he followed up with them every single day for two weeks. And one of the things that he discovered was that people did actually get more frequent happiness from material things.

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So material things had this unsung benefit, which was that, you know, they are kind of always around. So, for example, I have a leather jacket that I really like, and every time I put it on, I kind of feel a little bit happier. You know, I'm not, like, freaking out. I'm just like a little bit happier.

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It was that sort of little small boost in momentary happiness that these previous studies had kind of overlooked. And so that's what we saw in our study, was that material things do provide this small but frequent boost to happiness.

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And in contrast, experiences in some ways might give you the tallest peaks. Right. In other words, they might be less frequent, but the peaks are going to be much higher.

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Exactly. So when we ask people about the intensity of happiness that they were experiencing, we saw that these experiential Christmas gifts gave people much bigger peaks, much more intense bursts of happiness, whereas the material things gave people this sort of lower dose, but more frequent feeling of happiness. So in that sense, you might think of it as like two flavors of ice cream. You know, experiences are like gelato with this intense burst of happiness, but then it's gone.

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And then on the flip side, you know, material things are more like a big thing of Froyo where they're not like as amazing in any one moment, but like, you can have it for a while. And so, you know, in that sense, I think material things maybe got a little bit of a bad rap.

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So maybe instead of saying that experiences make you happy and and things don't, it might be wiser to say that experiences give you, as you say, a different kind of happiness. They give you more anticipation, better memories. But but often in the moment, things can give you many small moments of pleasure. And part of the question about happiness is what kind of happiness do you prefer?

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Exactly. So do you want those sort of low level moments of contentment that material things might provide? Or do you want these, like bursts of joy that you might get from experiences? Now, from what I said so far, it does seem like experiences in material things are kind of on an equal playing field and it sort of depends what what flavor of happiness you want. But we actually also followed up with our same participants six weeks after Christmas. By this point, they must have been really sick of us, but they still filled out another survey for us and we asked them how they were feeling about their Christmas gift at that point.

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And what we found was that six weeks after Christmas, people were significantly more satisfied with their experiential gifts than people were with material gifts. And so this was really interesting to us because, again, it suggests even though the experiential purchases are experiential, gifts, in essence were gone by that point, like most people had already enjoyed their spa day or gone to the hockey game or whatever it was that they'd received for Christmas. But they actually felt more satisfied with it six weeks after Christmas compared to people who had gotten these material gifts.

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So in that way, I think Erin was right when he was right that, like, the advice to buy experiences might be a little too simple, but I feel like I kind of had the last laugh and say, yeah, but by six weeks after. Are words like experiences still way? When we come back, why the pursuit of happiness can feel like being on a treadmill and how to get off it. This message comes from NPR sponsor Western Governors University, G.U. offers online bachelor's and master's degrees in business, I.T. education and nursing.

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By visiting W.G., you use hidden brain support for hidden brain, and the following message come from Best Vimes. Whether you have hours to fill or a few minutes of boredom to conquer, look to the fiendishly fun world of minutia. Collect cute characters, solve challenging puzzles and level up your themes in this free to play puzzle adventure with over 100 million downloads and counting. Download best beans for free today on the App Store or Google Play. That's friends without their best fiends.

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If you and your partner have worked from home in recent months, perhaps you've noticed something surprising the person with whom you share your life becomes someone different. When he's with his co-workers, he's more upbeat. He uses words like objectives and deliverables. He seems to laugh harder at other people's jokes. In fact, he seems to be saving the best version of himself for people who arguably matter less than the people with whom he shares his home. Liz Dunn first noticed something similar when she was in grad school.

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She had a boyfriend, Benjamin, and he did something that she found pretty annoying.

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So when Benjamin was in a little bit of a bad mood, he would come to me, his longtime girlfriend, and he would get kind of cranky and grumpy.

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But if we happened to run into a random acquaintance or even a stranger, Benjamin would perk right up, acting all pleasant and cheerful as social norms demand. And what I noticed is that afterward he would actually be in a much better mood as a result of his own sort of pleasant, cheerful behavior. He would get himself into a better mood. And so, you know, I started to wonder, is this just some weird, quirky thing about Benjamin or is this part of the way that humans behave?

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And so I decided to bring in about 100 romantic couples into the lab to try to get to the bottom of this list, recorded some of the people chatting with their actual partners and some chatting with a stranger.

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Here's a clip of two people who are in a relationship right now, would like to be 55.

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And here's a clip of two strangers. How are you going to spend a month? I mean, you know, here. Yeah.

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What stands out to me is that when the romantic couple is talking, you hear this sort of low level, sort of mildly cranky kind of tone, whereas when the strangers are talking, they have this very cheerful, positive, upbeat lilt, which is, you know what we would what we expect. So in North America, at least, there's this strong demand to act pleasant and cheerful when you're talking to someone that you haven't met before or don't know well.

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And so, you know, what we see in our study is that when people engage in this positive self presentation, acting all sort of pleasant and cheerful around someone that you don't know, it actually has benefits for their own mood in a way that they themselves don't seem to foresee. It provides this unexpected boost to our moods when we just act pleasant and cheerful for the benefit of somebody else. The fact that we tend to present our best sides to strangers rather than to people who inhabit our lives is very sad.

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But it turns out it's not just our partners that we take for granted. We do this with nearly everything in our lives. Familiarity breeds, if not if not contempt, at least a certain amount of indifference. Can you talk about this idealism?

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Yeah. So this is one of the most important ideas across all of happiness research, which is that whatever we have, we tend to get used to it. So no matter how awesome our lives might be or what wonderful things come into our lives, we tend to get used to them over time and the pleasure that they provide gradually diminishes.

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This is sometimes being called the hedonic treadmill. Give me a sense of the origin of that phrase. What is that phrase? Trying to communicate?

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Yes. So the hedonic treadmill is such a sad phrase, right? It conveys this idea that we're sort of stuck no matter how hard we try to get happier. We can't we're kind of on this treadmill where we always end up kind of back where we started. So try to run faster, work harder to get happier. And it doesn't do any good. So the metaphor of the treadmill here, of course, is the idea that you're running, but it's still you're staying in place even as you're running.

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In other words, it's not changing how happy you're feeling, even though it feels like you're doing things that should make you happier. So so you and others have thought of ways to fight this psychological phenomenon, this phenomenon of the head on a treadmill. And you've drawn inspiration from a marketing trick by McDonald's. Here's a clip of a McDonald's customer talking about the McRib.

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I'm I've done everything right. It's amazing. It's the best thing ever made. Why did you get rid of it? I don't want it, I need it, it's not going to stick around. What's going on? Your list. So the McRib is a McDonald's sandwich that is only available for a limited time. So at the height of its popularity, McDonald's will pull it off the menu, which at first glance seems a bit counterintuitive.

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If you have a product that's selling really well, you'd think you'd want to keep it available.

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But in fact, by yanking it away, McDonald's can actually make it more desirable.

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And how is this connected to the idea of the hedonic treadmill and the psychological insight about how to overcome it? Well, it turns out that one way to fight hedonic adaptation or get off the hedonic treadmill is to deprive ourselves a little bit so to not have constant access to the things that we like. So on the one hand, it seems like the recipe for happiness should be to have all the things that we like abundantly available to us all the time.

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But in fact, that's a recipe for is massive hedonic adaptation where we just get used to the things that we like and no longer derive as much pleasure from them. And some of my research, what we've discovered is that actually taking things away from people for a period of time can increase their capacity to enjoy those things.

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What kind of things have you taken away from people to see the effect it has on them?

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So in my lab, we buy a lot of chocolate. Chocolate is a pretty good, reliable source of happiness. Most of our research participants really like chocolate and get enjoyment from eating it. So in one study that we ran, we brought people into the lab and asked them to eat a little bit of chocolate. And then we sent one group of students away with a big bag of chocolate and asked them to eat as much as they comfortably could over the ensuing week.

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Meanwhile, we asked another group of students to please refrain from eating any chocolate for a whole week. And finally, we just left this third group of students without any special chocolate related instructions. Then we brought everybody back into the lab a week later and once again we had them eat some chocolate. Now, what we see across most of the sample is that people enjoyed the chocolate significantly less the second time than they had the first time. And this little tiny finding kind of captures the sad reality of the human experience, which is that the more we have something, the less we tend to appreciate it.

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But there was one group of people that enjoyed the chocolate at least as much the second time as they had the first.

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And this was the people who had been asked to give up the chocolate in between. So what this suggests is that taking a break from things that we enjoy can actually sort of renew our capacity to appreciate them.

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So there are people, many of them, of course, in Silicon Valley who are taking this idea to its logical conclusion, if scarcity can produce greater happiness, let's engineer scarcity. Take a listen to this clip about someone talking about a dopamine, fast rules or no pleasure.

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Anything you find pleasurable, you're not allowed to do examples. Electronics, no electronics, no computers, no iPods, no phones, no food, no coffees, no teeth, no juice, etc..

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Just in other words, lose everything you thought would make you happy actually makes you unhappy. And everything you thought would make you unhappy actually makes you happy.

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Yeah, I mean, I would say taking a break from all of those things, as terrible as it sounds to me, to take a break from coffee, taking a break from these things probably won't make you happy while you're abstaining from them.

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So I'm not arguing that, you know, there's something really pleasurable about having nothing.

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Right. Instead, the idea is that we can kind of restart our happiness systems a little bit by taking a break from the things that we like. I would not advocate, you know, that we should all like move into the woods and give up every kind of pleasure in life. That's not the recipe for happiness. But, you know, the recipe for happiness does involve figuring out how to reset ourselves a little bit so that we appreciate the things that we've started to take for granted.

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And so that can mean, you know, I think long distance relationships are potentially interesting in that way because, you know, you have these breaks where you're you're not able to be with your romantic partner. So my my husband went to Africa for six months and I really missed him. And I can still sort of channel that, you know, we're around each other all the time. Even just thinking back to that long period where we were separated can help me appreciate that.

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He's around all the time now. Is it possible that experiences are less likely to produce the hedonic treadmill precisely because they are in fact rarer? You can go to the Arctic Circle every weekend. So investing in experiences rather than things automatically forces you into a form of scarcity that you don't have when you are thinking about material purchases or material objects.

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Absolutely, because one of the things that's interesting about experiences is that they feel unique. You know, my Arctic road trip feels very unique to me, but even going to like, say, a Springsteen concert like I did in grad school, obviously Bruce Springsteen plays all over the world. Many, many people have seen him. But that concert for me feels like, oh, well, that was really special and I'm never going to have that exact experience again.

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And so, you know, our experiences take on this property of uniqueness that makes it harder to adapt to them, whereas material things, you know, they're really easy to compare.

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You know, you could replace them with something probably even better. And so material things may be more subject to this problem of the hedonic treadmill than than experiences.

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Many of us, you and I included, are working from home or sequestering ourselves in some ways, and many of the things we took for granted, you know, going to work, meaning people going to a coffee shop, going to a restaurant, these things have been taken away from us in some ways. Is this going to serve as a mechanism to fight hedonic adaptation?

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So my prediction is that the terrible covid-19 pandemic, as awful as it's been, might provide us with a little bit of a happiness reset. So my personal experience, something I've been noticing, you know, as a happiness researcher, I tend to pay attention to my own experiences. And what I've been noticing is that, you know, really simple things that I had been taking for granted.

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I am so appreciative of now because most of the things that I really like in my daily life have been taken away.

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So for me, I at least have been finding that, you know, how having limited access to things that I enjoy is really renewing my my tendency to appreciate them. Taking time to savor the experiences we've had in the past and whatever experiences are currently available is one way to maximize happiness during a very difficult time. Coming up, we look at another way to increase well-being at a moment when many people are experiencing hardship.

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Stay with us. You're listening to Hidden Brain.

[00:32:05]

I'm Shankar Vedantam. This is NPR. This message comes from NPR Sponsor Better Help every day, thousands of people seek the help of a licensed therapist and better help dotcom. If you are a psychologist, marriage and family therapist, clinical social worker or board licensed professional counselor, better help is the easiest way to apply your clinical expertise online. With better help, you can focus 100 percent of your time on counseling, visit, better help dotcoms join, better help and complete a brief application to get started.

[00:32:40]

Support for NPR and the following message come from First Republic Bank Experience. Personalized banking from the comfort of your home with the redesigned First Republic mobile app. You can schedule payments, manage your debit card and talk to your banker any time anywhere. The first Republik app is available now on the App Store and Google Play. Visit First Republic Dotcom Slash Digital to learn more member FDIC Equal Housing Lender. Whoever said money can't buy happiness didn't know where to shop.

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You've probably heard some version of this quote about the relationship between money and happiness, philosophers, novelists and TV writers have all wrestled with the question of whether we can buy our way to bliss. Over the years, researchers have tried to test the relationship between spending and contentment, one method they've used is to give money to volunteers and tell them to spend it either on themselves or others. Social psychologist Lasdun says most people expect no surprise to get more happiness from spending the money on themselves.

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And, you know, it's kind of interesting because I do get letters from people saying, you know, why didn't scientists need to come along and do this? Research like this idea of helping others is in the Bible or my mom, you know, told me this. But the interesting thing is that when you bring money into the picture, people just don't seem to realize that that 20 dollar bill in their pocket might be better spent on somebody else than on themselves.

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Hmm, so some years ago, you were sitting down with an accountant and going over your taxes and the accountants stops on the line that talks about your charitable contributions as someone steeped in the literature on the psychological benefits of generosity, was your accountant worried that you were giving away too much of your money?

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He was not worried that I was giving away too much money. He had read about my research. You know, the downside of having your work prominently featured in the media is that like your accountant reads about it.

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And so when he saw that when he saw the charitable giving line of my tax return, he shot me this look of like I see through you to like the barest ugliest part of your soul, you know, and you're telling everybody else how happy it would make them to give money away.

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But like, this is not impressive how much money you're giving away. And I really, like, stood out to me, you know, I have this, like, moment of reckoning of like, oh, God, OK. I need I really need to be doing better.

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Why were you not practicing what you were preaching, Liz? And what would happen if you when you when you tried?

[00:35:25]

Well, you know, I would give money to charities here and there.

[00:35:28]

And one thing that I was really wrestling with is that I wasn't getting much of an emotional boost from these giving experiences that I was having, which was really puzzling to me because, you know, we saw that even in parts of the world where people were struggling to meet their own basic needs, giving money to charity was linked to to greater happiness.

[00:35:51]

So it's like, what is wrong with me? You know, why am I not feeling this emotional boost that all of my research suggests should be there?

[00:36:00]

Hmm. And you started to ask yourself, is there something wrong in the literature or is there something wrong with you?

[00:36:06]

Yeah. And so, you know, maybe there is something wrong with me. But I guess my first inclination was to explore whether we'd missed something in the research. So maybe it's not the case that giving to charity always makes people happier. Maybe it actually depends how you do it. So maybe I was just doing it wrong.

[00:36:26]

And so I started with my colleagues and students exploring when people get the biggest emotional boost from giving to charity and and when that emotional boost seems to sort of disappear.

[00:36:41]

You ran a study where you asked people to give money to UNICEF to tell me what UNICEF does and what the experiment was about.

[00:36:49]

Yes. So UNICEF is a wonderful charity that really helps to support children's health initiatives around the world.

[00:36:57]

But UNICEF is such a big, broad charity that it can be a little hard to really envision how your own small donation is going to really make a difference. So we asked people to give money to either UNICEF or another charity called Spread the Net and would spread the ng'andu.

[00:37:15]

And what's the difference between their approach and the UNICEF approach?

[00:37:18]

So Spread the Net has a lot in common with UNICEF. They're actually partners. They both care about promoting children's health. But Spread the Net has a very clear and specific mission.

[00:37:28]

And so what they do is that for every ten dollars donated, they purchase one bed net to protect a child from malaria. So if you make even a small donations, this charity, you have a very clear idea of how you're making a difference.

[00:37:44]

So we chose these charities because, you know, they're both important, worthwhile working, kind of the same general space.

[00:37:50]

But Spread the Net is giving donors a very clear window into how their dollars are making a difference, whereas with UNICEF, they can just be a bit harder to really understand how your donation is really going to change anyone's life.

[00:38:04]

So in other words, when you're asking people to give, it's really helpful that they know what their money is getting, that the more specific feedback that you can give them about the good that their money is doing, the greater the likelihood that their generosity is going to give them a warm glow and the greater the likelihood that they actually give.

[00:38:22]

Yes. So people get the biggest emotional boost from giving to others when they can really envision or better yet directly see how their dollars are actually making a difference.

[00:38:34]

So in the case of our Spread the Net and UNICEF experiment, what we discovered was that the more money people gave to spread the net, the happier they tended to feel afterward. But kind of remarkably, this emotional boost of giving was eliminated when people gave money to UNICEF.

[00:38:54]

So this suggests that just giving money to a worthwhile charity doesn't automatically inherently trigger this emotional benefit.

[00:39:01]

Instead, it really does seem to matter whether you can have a window into how you're actually having an impact on others lives.

[00:39:11]

So besides the value of telling people exactly how their money is going to be used and to give them a sense that this is the impact it's going to have, you're also finding that the connection that people have with the object of their generosity seems to matter. And I'm wondering if you can tell me a personal story of your involvement with the Syrian refugee crisis and how your work with them has shaped how you've come to understand the psychology of generosity.

[00:39:41]

Yes. So at the peak of the Syrian refugee crisis, when stories about that terrible, terrible crisis were on the cover of the newspaper every day, and we were seeing really just horrifying photos of even young children dying in this crisis, I was overcome with the desire to to do something to help.

[00:40:04]

My first inclination was to donate money to big, reputable charities that were doing good work on this issue.

[00:40:11]

And that's exactly what I did. But, you know, again, I just didn't feel much of an emotional boost at all from it. I just felt like I wasn't making a difference. Luckily, I live in Canada and here in Canada, I discovered we have this incredible program called the Group of Five. So the idea of the Group of Five is that any five Canadian citizens can actually privately sponsor a family of refugees. And, you know, you have to raise enough money to support the family for their first year in Canada.

[00:40:45]

And then they actually get on a plane to your city. So they move to your city and you're responsible for them for their first year in Canada. This is a big undertaking.

[00:40:56]

And one of the things that I think is so awesome about this program is that no matter how sort of wealthy and connected or smart you might be, you are not allowed to do this alone.

[00:41:07]

And it happened that a bunch of my friends were interested in this as well. So I remember we all got together at someone's house one night and talked through it and thought, you know, is this something that we could do? And by the end of that night, we pretty much decided, like, OK, let's try to do this.

[00:41:25]

The first step was that we had to raise the money, so in our case, we had to raise about 40 thousand dollars, that turned out to really be kind of the easy part because everyone was very concerned about the Syrian refugee crisis at that time.

[00:41:40]

And people really opened up their wallets and gave and then then the hard part started.

[00:41:47]

One of the big challenges, of course, is finding them a house, and so the family that we brought over had five kids, which is pretty much unheard of in Vancouver, like in Vancouver. Housing is very expensive. Most people have zero one or two kids. So that was a huge mission in and of itself.

[00:42:05]

We found in a house, we filled it up with furniture, we stuffed their fridge with some nice fresh food, and then before long, it was time for us to to go to the airport and meet our family.

[00:42:19]

Liz and her friends gathered in an airport waiting room with welcome signs and balloons.

[00:42:25]

And I still think about this moment where the doors are open from customs and our family of seven walked through those doors and as soon as they saw us, the father who was this, you know, very strong, emotionally resilient man, his eyes just filled with tears at seeing us. And, you know, his wife was also quite overcome with emotion. Her sister had come to Canada previously through the same program.

[00:42:57]

So they were with us, too.

[00:42:58]

And so we got to see these two sisters be reunited after being separated for 15 years. So we got to be there for that moment where these two women came back together and that experience, it still gives me chills now.

[00:43:16]

And I think about it and it's, you know, so far removed from the experience of going on to a website and donating money to charity and hoping that it makes a difference for somebody at some point right in this moment. You know, we could see everything that our group had contributed, really reshaping the lives of this whole family. I'm struck that you used the phrase our family when you describe this, the Syrian family that came in, I mean, at this point, this is not just to them that you're helping.

[00:43:54]

This is an asset that you're helping.

[00:43:57]

Yeah. And so when we when we first took on this project, we would always just refer to the refugees, which I think is the way that most people talk about refugees. Right. And now it sounds so weird to me to to refer to them as the refugees. Right. Because I think from the moment that they walked through that, the doors at the Vancouver airport, like the children in this family, just climbed into my heart. They'll just be there forever.

[00:44:22]

And yet so so it's a really amazing experience to know that you have been able to alter the course of life for a whole family. After we met them at the airport, we got to take them to their new home. We got to play soccer with them in the front yard, show the kids their bedrooms. One of my friends, my friend Kylie, had brought her daughter over a week or two earlier. And together they had decorated the girls bedroom to try to make it just the way a pre-teen girl would want it.

[00:44:57]

So basically, we put quite a bit of thought into trying to create not just this house for them, but create this home for them and this feeling of being able to say to them, your home, you know, this is your place now. And certainly the most profoundly rewarding experience of my life. So when when you had this group come together, the Canadian government requires that at least five families come together, but I understand that you actually built a larger group to tell me about that group and tell me about the dynamics in that group before this family came over.

[00:45:35]

I'm imagining that actually this this was a source of bonding for the group itself, that, in other words, you were establishing ties with one another, separate from the ties that you were establishing with this the Syrian family that you were bringing over.

[00:45:48]

Absolutely. So in the end, there were more than 25 people involved in our group and about six or seven of us who were very deeply involved. And we were constantly having to sort of overcome challenges, problem solved together. You know, one of the things that I loved about this experience is that I really got to see my friend's strengths. So most of the people that I was working with closely on this project, I already cared about. I was already good friends with, but I hadn't necessarily seen everything they were capable of.

[00:46:20]

So, you know, one of my friends, for example, is a nurse and she can just take over any situation, get everything under control and like fix whatever is going wrong. And she just amazed me time and time again through this process. Like, I just got to see the strengths of hers that, you know, in our casual sort of day to day friendship I hadn't gotten to experience.

[00:46:45]

So it's so interesting because the difference here is not just between, you know, writing a check and helping a family. I mean, just in terms of financial help, I'm guessing you probably have donated far more financially than you would have ever written in a cheque to any any organization, just not not just in terms of time, but just in terms of the resources you're giving this family or the help you're giving this family. Essentially, you've you essentially had an open checkbook as you as you're working with this family.

[00:47:12]

But it's also you're not even thinking about the money, it sounds like, because at this point, you're not actually helping someone else. You're actually helping, you know, you are helping them as if you would help your own family members. And, you know, you're not thinking of it as an act of generosity. You're just saying this is how this is what it means to be Liz. Yeah, and I think this was something that really struck all of our group members is that once our family arrived, it just seemed obvious that we were just going to do whatever they needed.

[00:47:42]

We were just going to, you know, whatever problem arose, we were going to help them figure it out. You know, again and again. I've been just stunned by the level of generosity that my group members have shown, not only in terms of the financial support, but also, you know, my friend Mandy dropped all of the work that she was doing one day when the family needed to go to a clinic and needed her help in getting there and navigating that system.

[00:48:14]

And, you know, the the oldest kid in the family who was 31 when he arrived, he just kept saying, I just want to be on a soccer team. And so one of my friends was able to find a team, even though it was the middle of the season. She found a coach who was willing to add a last minute player who had just arrived in Canada. And I just remember seeing him kind of running onto the soccer field and, you know, getting high fives from these teammates who were opening up their team to him.

[00:48:43]

People have just been ready to sort of drop what they're doing and help this family. And I think that, too, has really just increased the depth of my relationship with my close friends who've been involved in this, because I've just seen the best side of their humanity. Elizabeth Dunn is a social psychologist at the University of British Columbia, along with Michael Norton. She's the author of Happy Money The Science of Happier Spending. Liz, thank you for joining me today on Hidden Brain.

[00:49:14]

Thank you so much for having me.

[00:49:21]

This week's show was produced by Part show and edited by Tara Boyle and Raina Cohen, our team includes Jenny Schmitt, Laura Querelle, Thomas Lou and Kat Shoukhrat, engineering support from Joshua Newar. Our unsung hero this week is Isabel Lara, the executive director of media relations at NPR. Isabel has long been an enthusiastic supporter of hidden brain, and she always works hard to find ways to spread word about the show and connect us with new audiences. Plus, she's a really kind person, a colleague you always look forward to seeing at the office.

[00:50:03]

These days, we mostly see Isabel on Zoom, but her upbeat demeanor shines through, even on a video screen. We are so grateful for you, Isabel. One last thing before we go, we are working on an episode about secrets, do you have a private truth or a hidden burden that you keep tucked away from other people? Tell us about your secret and why you've kept it under lock and key, what have you lost and what have you gained from holding on to the secret?

[00:50:37]

If you'd like to share your personal story, please find a quiet room and record a voice memo on your phone. Two or three minutes is plenty. Email it to us at Hidden Brain at NPR dot org using the subject line secrets. Be sure to include your phone number and whether it's OK for us to use your name on the air again. Record a voice memo in a quiet room and email it to us at Hidden Brain at NPR. Doug.

[00:51:10]

For more hidden brain, you can find us on Facebook and Twitter. Today's episode was the first in our You 2.0 series, which runs all this month. If you like today's episode, please be sure to share it with a friend who might enjoy the series.

[00:51:26]

I'm Shankar Vedantam and this is NPR. We're only months away from Election Day and every week or even every few hours, there's a new twist that could affect who will win the White House. To keep up with the latest, tune into the NPR Politics podcast every day to find out what happened and what it means for the election.