The part Kenny show on news talk with Marter private network during current restrictions. Don't ignore your health concerns. Our expert team is ready to help. It's happened to us all, you see the perfect item you've been searching for online, you added to your cart only to find out when you go to the checkout that the price has skyrocketed once VAT and delivery fees are added on. Well, you can expect that to happen even more regularly as the reality of Brexit makes itself known to Irish shoppers.

Joining me now to help us understand how our online shopping is going to be affected, Robert Troy, minister of state for trade promotion, digital and Company Regulation and FENA voted for Luxford. Westmeath Minister, good morning and welcome.

Good morning, Pat, and happy New Year to you and your listeners. Happy New Year to you as well. And happy vaccinated as soon as possible. New Year is what we're all saying to each other. Now, let's talk about that. Let's talk about the changes to the regulations for buying online or the reality of buying online since Brexit.

You know, when you were all in the E.U. together, if you pay VAT in the U.K., you don't pay VAT here.

It was one of the rules. You pay it only in one territory that now has changed.

It will look at what this is about is a very much a consumer awareness issue. It's about making sure consumers exercise care and caution when shopping online, because since the 1st of January, there has been two areas of major change, really. And the two areas is in the area of taxation and in the area of consumer rights and money. Consumers who are shopping online from the UK must be aware of goods in excess of 22 euros will be now liable for Irish VAT at the same rate applied in Ireland to similar goods and any purchases.

Over 150 euro, which did not originate in the UK, are in another EU country, will now be liable to customs charges. And in the second area, from the perspective of consumer rights, as the UK is no longer a member of the EU, clearly, and you will no longer benefit from the EU consumer rights and you would will be reliant on the UK consumer protection. So there is two major areas of change. And what I would be saying is that anybody who is shopping online needs to be vigilant and needs to exercise care and caution before doing so.

OK, so suppose suppose you buy a sweater from Marks and Spencers online. Let's just say that's a well-known UK retailer.

They will presumably charge that out, including the VAT that was, you know, available in the UK.

Whatever the VAT sweater's is that goes into the post, it's obviously going to cost more than 22 euro, including post and packaging.

When it gets here, it will attract, what, a 23 percent VAT when it arrives here. Is that it? Well, there's two up and twenty two scenarios.

In some instances, websites are taken account of the new changes and are actually charging and the Irish VAT before dispatch. And it's quite clear there will be no additional charges but other websites, Acton's. And what happens then is when it comes to a delivery perspective and the delivery, whether it be unposed or whether it be another delivery company, DHL or whoever, and then there is additional charges at the VAT of 21 percent. If it's if it's 21 percent for a similar product in Ireland.

Yeah. And they will then potentially charge handlin fee on top of that. The one thing is, even if even if the UK VAT is paid, once it goes over 22 euros, there still is a requirement that Irish VAT will be applied when the goods importers and so on.

OK, so so let me get this straight. Let's take this sweater, which costs more than 22 euro. It arrives here and the including the delivery costs, because you've got to factor that in as well.

Suppose it comes to fifty euro at that point, you're going to have to pay 21 percent on that particular thing, which would be another, what, 10 euro fifty. So it's now costing you 60 euro 50 instead of the 50 you thought you were going to be paying. How do you pay that to one post other than the people in the vans going to have to take money from you?

Well, there will be a requirement there, and that way they will and will charge a fee also.

So, I mean, is this what is this what's intended that the DHL, the FedEx, the unposted delivery person, now has to have credit card facilities?

They've got to be able to take your credit cards because you don't to be handling cash in a pandemic, so that's what's going to have to happen. Unpossible would be saying if you got a credit card, I have your sweater.

Show me your credit card. Let's check if it's OK and then you can have your sweater. Is that what's going to happen?

Well, currently, for any project that's coming in outside of the EU, this has always been the case that customs and charges did apply. And here customs and charities applied on post would, when delivering us, ensure that that those charges were paid. And there would be and there would be remiss it back to the normal channels at what's happening now is because the UK is no longer a member of the E.U., these charges are now applicable from items coming from the UK.

And I suppose but I would be saying to to people who are shopping online that if you want to avoid these charges, that the best way to do so is by a shop and local. And you're in the last pandemic or indeed the first pandemic. My department through Enterprise Ireland investors heavily and to many retailers to enable them enhance their online.

That's that's fine. And they will source their goods wherever in the world or locally they source them. And that's fine. But what I'm getting at is given the amount of stuff that we have been buying from UK websites, that this could become very cumbersome indeed for those people who deliver. I mean, I remember years ago when my kids were younger, we'd be ordering stuff from Abercrombie and Fitch for a birthday or something like that, and FedEx would arrive and they would demand at the payment of taxes before they would pass over the goods.

But that was, you know, a very rare kind of occasion, maybe a couple of times a year would happen. Now, people are shopping pretty much every day from UK websites. Now, I note that the online fashion retailer Azar's has said that its customers will not have to pay any new customs duties or import taxes because what it's going to do is going to ship from EU based warehouses instead of from the UK. And we'll see how many other online fashion people do that.

But here's the rub.

If we go back to our Marks and Spencers sweater costing 40 and then adding the VAT, bringing it up to 50 euros 50 cent, if that actually was made for Marks and Spencers somewhere else, then the duty, even though it might have been paid in the UK to get it into the UK, the duty that it would have attracted.

Coming into Ireland will also be added to that sweater. So that sweater might, instead of being 40, as we thought when we were buying it initially, not 50 with the VAT, but it could be 70 perhaps by the time FedEx or on post handed over to me.

This is a mess.

And and that's why, as have at the very outset said, this is very much a cost because consumer awareness issue and consumers need to be aware of these new charges that potentially are liable when purchasing online the need to exercise care and caution.

And prior to making a purchase online, I would encourage consumers to look at the CPC website and to look at the revenue website, because on both of their websites they have very clear and comprehensive outline in terms of what potential charges could be liable for consumers. But at a very high level, for goods in excess of 22 euros at coming in, they are now liable for Irish VAT at the same rate applied in Ireland to similar goods for purchases in excess of 150 euros where where the product did not originate in either the U.K. are in the EU.

They will be liable to customs charges and those charges are outlined on the revenue website and people need to be aware of that before making the purchase.

And one of the tax from Newstalk Lessner says, My husband is a postman. He will not handle cash as he could be a target for robbery.

Well, that's down to unposted, speaking as a postmaster myself, I have a rural suboffice in County West and for many years and the postal postal workers have been providing this service, albeit for for produce that is coming in outside of the EU. A heretofore unfortunately now, because the UK has left the EU, it will be a requirement for projects coming in from the UK. Yeah, one of the issues I've come across myself where I was trying to buy some LED light bulbs and I thought I was buying from an Irish site because it was dodgy, but in fact, the stuff came in from the UK.

Now, I want to avoid doing that in future.

That was a while ago. Now, I'm not sure whether even that company has set up its own warehouse and in Ireland since. But it was an experience I had thinking I was buying locally, but in fact being delivered from the UK. What can we do about the sites identifying themselves in terms of where you are actually buying from?

A valid point, just because it is simply a Daae doesn't necessarily mean that it is located in Ireland. It could be set up as data, i.e. to to attract Irish consumers to what people need to do again is be vigilant and aware, but they need to go in to the website that they're looking at to go into their terms and conditions to find out the physical address, and then they will identify where exactly that website is located. And it could potentially be located somewhere in the EU.

No problem in the UK. Again, we have an issue in relation to the minister.

I'm not I'm not happy. I'm not happy with this. The you know, the consumer having to do all the heavy lifting on this. This was negotiated by the EU and the UK.

It is, I think, incumbent upon you in government and the EU generally to force people, to identify sellers, to identify exactly where they're located and exactly what duties might accrue. Presumably we can do this. I mean, the UK is the third country we can do this now. We can actually say to them, if you want to sell to us, you've got to identify that you are indeed UK and all the taxes and duties that might be payable.

If I buy from your website, surely we can do this and governments should be doing it.

Well, what we have to acknowledge is that this is only where we're in the first week of the UK leaving the EU at all stages. We have identified that there are going to be major challenges and there are going to be consequences of the UK leaving the single market. And unfortunately, these are some of the consequences that have fallen out and that there will be additional charges applied.

Thankfully, many companies it's not just I mean, anybody is this would be anybody in the EU who's buying from the UK.

So you'd imagine that the 27 countries could get together and say to the UK, listen, if you want to do business with us, we're happy to do it on the basis agreed in this skinny trade deal. But if you want to do business with us, you've got to identify yourselves. We're not having our our citizens feeling gypped when they're suddenly having demands from Farkash, from their delivery services. And by the way, you were talking about the people in unperson, your experience as a postmaster and these tax coming in postman here.

I will not be handling any cash cards on my route. Absolutely no chance. I'm walking around the city centre with a target on my back and other Paul in Dundalk, a postman. The minister's not explaining the situation correctly. No postal operative will be asking customers for money. Our union simply wouldn't allow it. But then John and Leitrim says nothing new about this. Years ago, I bought a watch from the U.S. on eBay. When it arrived, the postman told me I owed VAT.

He took the payment by credit card. Apart from the annoyance of the extra charge, it was pretty simple. So says Ajan in Leitrim, another one from column.

The Irish consumer was always going to suffer the most from Brexit because Ireland was just seen as an extension of the UK market. But our EU negotiators appeared to have done nothing to protect us as they were more concerned with Spanish fishermen and German car manufacturers. The ordinary Irish person person will suffer the most, not even mentioned in the agreement. That's according to two column minister. There's still a lot of heavy lifting, I suspect, to be done on this still has work to be done.

And part of why I'm speaking new to you today apart and thank you for having me on, is to ensure that the consumers are aware because quite clearly a lot of them aren't aware up until now. And by making consumers aware, they will begin to exercise care and caution, the will begin to realise the potential and taxes that may be charged on produce, and they will know about the change into consumer rights. And it's important that consumers are aware of that.

And I would direct people to the CPC, the Consumer Art Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, who has done a lot of work on this and has a very comprehensive and Lincolnshire website in relation to this. And also the revenue at website has a comprehensive link in relation to what is potentially liable for products coming in from the UK. All right, by the way, before we let you go, what can we expect to hear from government later on covid schools to remain closed until the end of January?

That seems to be fairly clear. Have you any information on construction and how much will remain open? How much will remain closed?

I don't I wasn't party, obviously, to the meeting yesterday and are not party to the meeting tomorrow. And I'm I'm. Literally and reading online to see what has been leaked from those meetings, I haven't been speaking to anybody that's coming in that night.

We will await the deliberations of cabinet. All right. Look at Minister. Thank you very much for raising a hair here with our listeners. And that's Robert Troy, minister of state for trade promotion, digital and company regulation. And also FENA faulted for Luxford Westmeath.