Happy Scribe Logo

Transcript

Proofread by 0 readers
Proofread
[00:00:01]

This is exactly right. On the murder squad, we discuss details of crimes that are often violent in nature. Listener discretion is advised.

[00:00:18]

I'm Billy Jensen. I'm Paul Hols. This is the murder squad. About twenty five miles from Indianapolis in a new subdivision riddled with home break ins, a double murder that haunts the community remains unsolved.

[00:00:43]

A three and a half hour window allowed someone to enter the dickeys home and kill a 10 year old boy and his stepmother, but that someone remains a mystery.

[00:00:54]

Summer was winding down when Blake Dickeys was finishing up a week spent with this Marine veteran father and stepmother. The week filled with fun at the county fair would end in tragedy. On July 20, Fourth, 10 year old Blake had plans with all his parents, mom, dad and step mom.

[00:01:12]

But someone ended the 10 year old's life before he had a chance to enjoy the day.

[00:01:16]

Our job to find out who killed China and Blake Dickeys. This is the murder squad.

[00:01:31]

Billy, you look like you're deep in thought I am, and, you know, I'm looking at the news and this is going to play into something that we talked about at the beginning of covid.

[00:01:44]

So last year there was a guy named Ibraham Boakai and he was arrested for sexually assaulting a woman named Carla Domínguez. The two were previously in a relationship. And then in October of twenty nineteen, he broke into Dominguez's apartment and he sexually assaulted her. He was charged and he turned himself in on October 21st. He pled not guilty and he was held without bond. So he's in jail and she actually testifies against him, too. But they're waiting for trial.

[00:02:17]

Then the virus comes now because of the virus, his attorney is arguing that he should be free before trial because of health.

[00:02:25]

So this judge got guy named and Dawkins, he reconsiders the bond in April. And this guy was released on April six under the condition that he remain in his home and meeting with his attorney.

[00:02:36]

But he wasn't required to wear any kind of ankle monitor or anything like that. So the court was going to have to take him at his word. Now, get this, in May, he's rearrested for an incident where he rams a car in a Wendy's drive thru and he's charged with multiple assault accounts, drunk driving and multiple traffic charges. And despite violating this original bond, he's released on bond again.

[00:03:04]

And then on July twenty ninth, Carla Domínguez was discovered, shot outside of her Mark Center apartment in Alexandria. They put an arrest warrant out for Larche. And the US Marshals were brought in to locate him. They spot his car and he actually shot himself and he was taken to the hospital where he died.

[00:03:24]

And this is exactly one of the things that we were talking about, actually a cross section of two things that we were talking about when the virus first started, which was the coronavirus episode that we talked about, domestic violence and the justice system and how they were going to be letting out potentially people that were violent offenders waiting for trial because of these concerns and these lawyers throwing this stuff up there instead of potentially letting out all of the people that are in jail for nonviolent offenses, for marijuana possession and things like that.

[00:04:00]

Yeah, you know, in this pisses me off because this is just a failure to understand the type of criminal that this guy was. You know, here he is. You take a look at that initial crime that he was taken into custody. He is breaking in to that residence and then sexually assaulting that woman. You know, that is a serious, serious offense. Why would you let somebody like that back out into society? Virus or no virus?

[00:04:29]

That shouldn't happen.

[00:04:31]

Yeah, virus or no virus, ankle monitor or no ankle monitor, and then he gets arrested again and then they say, you know what, you're OK. We can't this is goes out there to every judge, every every journalist. Look at the dockets, look at what's going on in your hometowns, because this is not an excuse to let out violent felons or potential felons who could potentially violate. Again, this was a complete and utter failure of not only the justice system, but this judge in saying, yeah, you know what, I'll let him out.

[00:05:12]

I understand there's due process. I understand that there could have been a possibility that he he was innocent.

[00:05:20]

You didn't want to put him in in harm's way because of covid. But there's a hell of a lot more people that are in harm's way that did a hell of a lot more a hell of a lot less stuff than what this guy did.

[00:05:31]

And it just it's one of those things, like you said, it really pisses you off. Yeah. You know, now now Carla has lost her life and her family has lost Carla just because of that one decision.

[00:05:42]

Yep.

[00:05:43]

So let's now go to Franklin, Ind. It was July of twenty six and 10 year old Blake had spent the week with his dad, Sean, and stepmom China. Blake was a typical kid. He loved video games. He had a Super Mario birthday cake one year. He was looking forward to going to his mom's the afternoon of July. Twenty Fourth. The two were supposed to go to the movies. When she got off work, he was already asking her to stop by the candy counter at the theater.

[00:06:11]

Twenty six year old graduate student China was supposed to take Blake over to his grandmother's house while his mother, Kristina, was at work. China and Sean, who was thirty three, had been married for three years. Christina, Sean and China all got along very well. Each was concerned with Blake's best interest at all times. So it wasn't alarming or even unusual when China called Christina to ask if she could drop Blake off a little later. Blake wanted to have lunch with his dad before going to his grandmother's.

[00:06:39]

Christina agreed. Sean came back at twelve forty five pm to their new home on Aberdeen Drive in the Branigan Woods neighborhood for lunch. The couple had only lived there a month.

[00:06:51]

The neighborhood still had many vacant lots, including one on each side as well as across the street from the dickeys home.

[00:07:00]

So China, Sean and Blake, they have lunch together and around one forty five p.m., Sean gets up and goes back to work. And Blake's grandmother was waiting for Blake to be dropped off at her house.

[00:07:13]

But minutes went by when it went by, minutes went by, he still hadn't shown the grandma reaches out to China but can't get in contact with her.

[00:07:24]

So the grandmother calls her daughter Kristina and says that the two were no shows. And Kristina assumed that maybe China was running a little late. So she waits, she gets off work and she drives to her mother's house to pick up Blake. So the two of them can go to the movies. But when she gets there, Blake still hadn't been dropped off. And like any mother that was looking forward to spend time with her child, she wasn't happy and she headed straight over to her ex's home.

[00:07:52]

But before she even got to the house, she could see that something was terribly wrong. There were several police cars in the street and there was a van parked at the dickeys home. Sean had arrived home at five 14 p.m., the house didn't look like anything was out of the ordinary, according to reports in the media.

[00:08:14]

Sean noticed the kitchen door that led to the garage was open. Again, not unusual. China sometimes had it open to greet Sean. Sean took off the shoes before going inside. Inside, he found what he called a whore. He then called the Franklin Police Department. Law enforcement arrives. They find no sign of forced entry and they find China and Blake just feet apart from one another, and a lot of these details are spotty because as you'll hear about during this story, law enforcement has kept a lot of this information very, very close to the vest.

[00:08:54]

But what we do know is China had been stabbed multiple times. And Blake was also stabbed, but he also had blunt force trauma and he had been associated as well. Some reports say he was smothered, but an investigator that we actually interviewed on Crimewatch daily use the term estimated.

[00:09:13]

There are some media reports of a two by four being found at the scene with traces of blood at the end of the piece of wood. Law enforcement hasn't confirmed whether the board was from the home or it was brought into the home. Police also haven't stated whether or not China was sexually assaulted. So and we're going to talk more about this particular police department and them keeping so many of these details close to the vest, but. Based on this crime scene.

[00:09:47]

What are you thinking right now? Well, you know, you have two victims, you have a 10 year old boy, there's multiple types of injuries to this boy.

[00:10:00]

And then you have an adult woman that has been killed by a stabbing.

[00:10:06]

You know, there's several different directions just from taking a look at, well, what's the potential motive here? Was she the target? Was it out of vindictiveness or was it out of revenge for she had gotten involved with a different relationship?

[00:10:26]

Or are you dealing with somebody who's a stranger who came in to attack this woman? And then, of course, now you have the 10 year old boy.

[00:10:36]

So what does it say about these these different methods? We have China had been stabbed, but Blake had been stabbed. But also he has blunt force trauma and he was fixated as well. So what is what does that mean? What does that tell you about the offenders?

[00:10:51]

Well, obviously, the adult victim, the woman is going to be a a more physically imposing person to have to be be able to neutralize and ultimately kill versus the 10 year old boy.

[00:11:10]

The fact that there is multiple modalities being inflicted on the 10 year old boy might suggest that you have an offender that is having to go back. This is something that is occurring over time. You know, this these crimes don't just happen in an instant, even though we're seeing or reading about the injuries to these victims.

[00:11:33]

This takes time and it's possible that initially the offender came in possibly with the intent to focus the violence on the woman, but then the boys there, and he has to try to keep the boy somewhat contained. And he's using different methods, maybe less than lethal methods to keep the boy contained until ultimately he realizes that he has to kill the boy. So that is one of the things that I would be looking at is taking a look. Can I sequence what is going on between the violence inflicted on the woman as well as the violence inflicted on the boy?

[00:12:10]

And that could give insight as to the offender's primary motive. Was she the target? We don't know if there is sexual assault.

[00:12:19]

However, we have to assume that that's a possibility until the police department comes out and says, no, that wasn't.

[00:12:28]

Could it be that there were two different offenders, at least two different offenders? There is that possibility.

[00:12:34]

Now, I would be taking a look at if I have two offenders and let's say one offenders focus is on a 10 year old boy and that offender is still having to bludgeon, still having to asphyxiate in some method and potentially stab that boy.

[00:12:52]

That offender is not physically dominant to that 10 year old boy. There's something going on there for that offender to have to go up unless there is fantasy involved. And right now, we have no information that there's something like that going on.

[00:13:06]

Detective and investigators called Blake's one of the manners in which he was harmed was asphyxia. But several reports refer to as smothering.

[00:13:17]

Is there a difference? Is that lend itself to believe it something else? What does that mean?

[00:13:23]

Yeah. So, you know, the the difference between smothering and asphyxia, asphyxia is a very general term that pathologists use. There's a multitude of ways in which somebody can be asphyxiated. It could be something to where somebody is smothered like we see in the descriptors of some of the other public source information on what happened to Blake. And this could be, you know, the use of a pillow or the use of a gloved hand as an example. But asphyxiation can also occur as a result of something that has been pushed into the oral cavity preventing the person from breathing.

[00:13:59]

So asphyxia is very general. So the fact that this detective used the term asphyxia is technically correct. It's just not as specific as smothering. If other individuals have said that Blake was smothered, then I would say that there's something that's been placed over his nose and mouth that prevented him from being able to breathe.

[00:14:17]

So, of course, the police first turned their attention to Shawn. He had had lunch with them. And to our knowledge, no one had had contact with China or Blake. Again, not until Shawn returned home from work. Law enforcement interviewed Shawn. They looked into his alibi at work. They even gave him a polygraph. He passed the polygraph and he had an alibi. He was at work and his co-worker saw him there during the interview. Shawn can't think of any enemies his family might have had.

[00:14:46]

China was very active in her church. Blake was active in sports China. And Shawn had even taken a trip to El Salvador earlier in the summer. The marriage was solid. Law enforcement cleared. Shawn, the Franklin Police Department seem to already be hitting dead ends.

[00:15:04]

Now, the police haven't released a time of death.

[00:15:07]

But by saying that they were clearing Shawn, is it fair to say that the time of death is after two p.m., but before five p.m.?

[00:15:17]

Oh, that yeah.

[00:15:19]

Based on the circumstances, that's probably a window, because now you have others that are able to verify when they were last seen and of course, when the victims are found.

[00:15:35]

Right.

[00:15:36]

OK, Paul, how accurate is time of death within such a small window of three hours when the last person to see them was also the last person to find the bodies?

[00:15:48]

Well, of course, there's concern about the veracity of that person's statement.

[00:15:53]

You know, Shawn is is the last person to see him alive and he's the one that's finding them.

[00:15:59]

You know, if he is involved in the case, he potentially has reason to skew the time to his favor.

[00:16:07]

However, assuming that he is accurate, then you have at least a window, this two to five in which China and Blake were killed.

[00:16:18]

Now trying to drill that down to a tighter window, using, you know, physical evidence, medical evidence from the autopsy results is very tough.

[00:16:30]

You really can't do that at. All so fundamentally, the statements that he's making are really the window that the investigators have to work with, their their time of death could have occurred anywhere between 10:00 to 5:00.

[00:16:46]

There isn't enough information in terms of are they exhibiting any rigor mortis? What's the temperature outside? Were they exercising beforehand? Are so many variables that it gets sketchy to try to narrow that window any further.

[00:17:02]

So the case goes cold and for nine years there isn't much movement. But the family is talking. They're talking to people again, like we always say, get loud and they reach out to the Vidocq Society. And if you don't know what the Vidocq Society is, we're kind of like a mini Vidocq Society here. We are a bunch of people that are trying to solve a crime.

[00:17:22]

The Vidocq Society is a group that meets every every month they get together in Philadelphia. They are former FBI, former forensics, a lot of different things. And they get together and they cover one case per month.

[00:17:36]

Yeah, very much as you get a lot of very experienced and intelligent people doing a brainstorm on the case.

[00:17:43]

Right. And the Franklin Police Department, when the family told them about the Vidocq Society, they didn't know what the Vidocq Society was, but they had some phone calls with them.

[00:17:57]

And this former FBI agent is asking them, well, what do you got? You know, what other information do you have? And the detective tells them about this particular piece of information. And the FBI agent says, listen, it's been nine years. You got to let this go. You got to put this out there. What are you holding this holding onto this for?

[00:18:19]

So here's what we learn and here's what they put out in twenty fifteen because of this pressure.

[00:18:26]

And again, this is necessary, I want to say pressure, but this is the family talking to Vidocq and then Vidocq talked to the police and then Vidocq saying, you got to let this out there. So during June and July of 2006 and 2007, that neighborhood that the Dickersons lived in was experiencing a string of burglaries. There was five in total. All of them were within a half mile radius of the dickeys home, and even on the day that China and Blake were murdered, there was a break in the very same day on the very same street.

[00:19:02]

Now, that breaking occurred in the home of Kobe, Wasniewski and Kobe told local news station are that the only items stolen were some silver dollars and other coins, a pitcher like a pitcher for lemonade. And a class right now. Hmm. All right, we're going to get to know what you're thinking. We're going to get to that in a second. Now, she also thinks the burglar took a picture with a camera that was in her husband's desk.

[00:19:34]

She didn't describe the picture, but it was taken at noon when neither she nor her husband were at home. And here was the earmark. There was a t shape that was cut into each of the window screens found at each of the locations.

[00:19:52]

Now, that's the first one, so you have a T shape cut into the window screens. The houses were ransacked. Specifically, the refrigerator's. I know what you're thinking, Paul. All items missing were minor coins, food, like a pitcher of lemonade, some jewelry.

[00:20:19]

Every robbery occurred during the daytime. And only Monday through Friday, this is very interesting, daytime Monday through Friday, and investigators told the media when releasing these details that, quote, We could very well solve the murders if we could solve these burglaries now.

[00:20:36]

Paul, based on what I'm telling you about the M.O., let's put aside the daytime Monday through Friday, but taking food, taking small things like silver dollars, a class ring.

[00:20:52]

What does this remind you of? Well, you know, this, you know, went when Joe D'Angelo started out as the Visalia Ransack or this is exactly the kind of thing he was doing.

[00:21:04]

He was breaking into homes. He was ransacking the homes, and he was taking these types of items. Sometimes they were items of value like we see in this case with the silver dollars and other coins. And sometimes they were nonsensical items. Only he could answer why he was taking certain things like the he liked clock radios.

[00:21:27]

Yes, he took a lot of clock radios, which weren't necessarily nonsensical. I mean, clock radio sound trivial now, but they were kind of a and remember, you know, from what we've learned about Joe Angelo, he was a hard scrabble kid with he grew up, you know, poor, not super poor, but he grew up like everybody in his neighborhood probably had a little bit more than him.

[00:21:50]

When he would see things that he would covet, he would he would grab them. What are some of the other things that he took, though? And then we know about the cufflinks from Michelle.

[00:21:59]

You know it when you start talking across, let's say, 50 break ins in Northern California, over one hundred burglaries down there in Visalia.

[00:22:08]

It really does range. You know, I think the most stunning aspects of what D'Angelo took would be when he first moved down into the East Bay in October of seventy eight.

[00:22:19]

And he is taking he did take a clock, kind of an alarm clock out of that victim's bedroom. But he also took 14 place settings of China. He took bed sheets, he took towels, and he took so much of those kinds of items that the original investigators thought that he was setting up a house like he had moved into to the East Bay. It was now, you know, basically equipping his house in order to live. And we know today that, well, that's not the case.

[00:22:47]

He never moved out of labor during that entire time.

[00:22:51]

Was this misdirection. He's wanting them to think he's wanting Sacramento authorities to think he's moved down to these bay. That's a possibility. But, you know, it's those goofy things. And so in this particular case, when I'm starting to see sort of an M.O. occur in terms of how this burglar is breaking into the houses, he's cutting through window screens, and he has a specific way that he's cutting into the window screens and then he's taking jewelry items, minor core coins, and then goofy things like, you know, a pitcher of lemonade.

[00:23:23]

You know, this appears to be potentially, you know, an individual that is on that spectrum of development. He is evolving from that petty burglar into a fetish burglar. And it potentially is escalating to where now he's looking at sexual assault and homicide.

[00:23:44]

So. We see that potential pattern there because we saw that that ramp up with D'Angelo going from Peeping Tom to breaking in to breaking in and stealing things and then beginning to assault.

[00:24:00]

And I do want to underscore that the mere breaking in and stealing things for somebody like D'Angelo or potentially somebody who is responsible for this case that is very sexually.

[00:24:15]

Motivating for them, they get off on doing those things. What does it say, though, about the the time of day we're talking daytime and only Monday through Friday now it reminds me of we used to see a lot with the Boston Strangler. Now the Boston Strangler would would strike during the daytime. And we know that his M.O. is that he would pretend that he was he had a nickname called The Measuring Man. He pretended that he was a.

[00:24:50]

He was from a modeling agency and he wanted to he would knock on the door of a woman, say he wanted to model them, and sometimes he would just kind of seduce the woman. Sometimes he would sexually assault the woman and then he graduated into killing the women. Then he used some ruses like he was from the power company. He was a superintendent. He was something along those lines. But it was usually during the day. What are we seeing here with these kind of these ransacks during the daytime?

[00:25:23]

At only Monday through Friday? Yeah.

[00:25:25]

So I'm actually going to ask you a question here. You think about this burglar.

[00:25:32]

When are people not home? Typically. During the day, during the day, what we see, and this is where getting into crime analysis and understanding criminology is that residential burglaries frequently occur Monday through Friday during the day because these burglars don't want to be confronted by the homeowners.

[00:25:56]

They're only interested in property. So on one hand, in assessing when he's breaking in, he is trying to avoid confrontation. He just wants property. But that kind of the conundrum in this case is the types of things that he's taking. He is not going after the real high value items that are in this house. He's going after what I would consider the sort of like fantasy trinket, something that he is associating. And he has some sort of draw, too.

[00:26:26]

But that's what we see with residential Burk's commercial. Burk's, on the other hand, have a tendency to break into business establishments at night because nobody's at the facility at that time and they want to avoid people.

[00:26:40]

So I'm looking at this going, OK, this is a guy who wants to live out his burglary and it could be a burglary fantasy and he's breaking into houses and doesn't want to confront people. But what is going on in this case? He goes into a house. Maybe he's expecting the house to be vacant and now he is confronted by China. And Blake, why is he now feeling he has to escalate it to this level of violence?

[00:27:09]

Most residential burgs that they're confronted by a homeowner are going to run out of the house. They're not into that taking it to the next step.

[00:27:19]

That's where when I start taking a look at the types of burglaries he's committing, the types of items he's stealing, the fact that he escalates to homicide of a woman and a 10 year old boy and not knowing the details, did he sexually assault a woman or not? But it looks to me like this guy is most certainly on that spectrum of a fantasy motivated predator.

[00:27:48]

Today's episode is sponsored by a new documentary podcast called Smoke Screen Fake Priest from Neon Hum Media Smokescreen.

[00:27:56]

A Fake Priest is an investigative show about Ryan Scott, also known as Randall Stocks, Ryan Gallinger and seven other names.

[00:28:05]

He was a popular priest who spent the last 30 years traveling the Midwest, swindling millions of dollars out of people, using the money to enrich himself and declare bankruptcy whenever outed for falsifying his identity. Father Ryan is a con man accused of several crimes, including fiduciary fraud, elder abuse and more.

[00:28:24]

Only once did law enforcement officially charge him with crimes related to his church, but he managed to essentially win the case. He's now free and working on his next con. Host Alex Schoeman, a news reporter from the Midwest, has been chasing Father Ryan's story for years. The craziest part is that Alex also gets an exclusive sit down interview with Ryan himself, and in it he reveals a shocking secret.

[00:28:48]

Subscribe and follow fake priest. Now to find out the shocking secret to listen to the show, just search for Smokescreen, Fake Priest and Apple podcast stitcher and wherever you listen. But could it be different that we don't know, they did tell us. You know, they had told us that there was no forced entry into the dickeys home. We don't know whether to assume or not that there was a cut that that cut in the window screen.

[00:29:16]

The fact that they didn't say it kind of says a lot.

[00:29:21]

You know, the ramp up from from doing those those five to that, you know. You sort of you look at it as an as a sort of an arms raiser guy, which I like to say that I am, and you say, well, how many people are really breaking into houses if five people are breaking into houses and, you know, there's fire breaks and break ins and in a half mile radius and then there's another break in and then it goes south, it's probably going to be connected, but it just seems just so, so different and such a a a giant ramp up of violence.

[00:30:02]

And it wasn't a ramp up of violence. It was a ramp up of violence that seemed very violent in nature. When we see I mean, to further on the basically ransack or comparison.

[00:30:19]

When does the rand or. Kill somebody, when does that happen? Well, the first that we know of is Claude Skellig after he tries to abduct Beth Snelling, a 16 year old girl out of the house.

[00:30:31]

And dad comes to the rescue and he ends up what we what we on the investigative side have called basically a defense type shooting.

[00:30:42]

He doesn't want to get caught. Dad is now coming at him and he shoots dad, not because he intended to kill Dad because he wants to get away. Right. But he escalates from committing all these types of burglaries that we're seeing in this case to where now he's trying to pull a 16 year old girl out of the house.

[00:31:00]

So that's a pattern that I'm seeing here with China and Blake's now.

[00:31:07]

And I think it's so important we are literally in the middle of an unsolved case. We don't know the answer.

[00:31:13]

All we know is we have a double homicide and we have some burglaries that are very intriguing that are occurring in the same neighborhood. And this is what happens when you're working unsolved cases is you form theories based on prior experience. And I'm seeing a parallel with the Golden State killer. But that doesn't mean that's what we're dealing with here. But that is one theory that I have to at least write down and consider. And then there's other theories based on victimology.

[00:31:40]

Who is China? Who is Blake, who has interest in what's inside that house or in causing harm to either one of them? And then other theories would develop based on that. And then I have to let the investigation guide me as to which direction I ultimately take.

[00:31:57]

So before releasing this particular information, law enforcement actually did believe that they had a decent lead.

[00:32:03]

There was a guy in Florida, he's in prison in Indiana. He was he was a guy from Florida. He was in prison in Indiana for an unrelated crime.

[00:32:11]

And he actually confessed to the murders at the dickeys home. So the Francom police, they chased down this lead, but it doesn't take long for them to figure out that the confession is false. Why? It's because the department has been holding back a lot of key information. And we've seen this this holding back of information.

[00:32:33]

Know it?

[00:32:35]

Definitely, I would say members of the murder squad, it frustrates us. We've seen this particularly in Delfi or most recently. Why is a department holding back information in a case like this?

[00:32:53]

There could be different layers as to why in the the the most likely scenario with an experienced department is they recognize that they don't have the incriminating physical evidence to show who actually committed this crime. Let's say she is sexually assaulted and the offender semen is found inside of her.

[00:33:17]

That would be an absolute nail in the coffin of that that particular offender. We know that he sexually assaulted her. And if he had no prior relationship with her, then then, you know, he's got some explaining to do. So department's investigative lead are going to hold back key details that only the killer would know in this. I mean, this goes all the way back to the beginning of time when it comes to criminal investigation.

[00:33:45]

And that's because there's people that will confess and falsely confess to committing these horrendous crimes. It happens over and over again. And the more notoriety the crime has, the more higher profile the crime has.

[00:34:03]

The more people you have who come forward and say, I killed China and Blake and this is how it happened during the interview. And now you're weighing the statements of that person versus the actual crime scene, the actual physical evidence.

[00:34:19]

And if there is very little match up, then, you know, this person's lying and you confront them on that. So that's one of the reasons for the hold back sometimes.

[00:34:28]

And the frustrating part is, is with more inexperienced investigators and departments, they hold back information thinking that they have to, not realizing that the information they're holding back could actually help solve the crime if they put it out to the public. And that's that's where I don't know, we don't have enough information in this case to to weigh, you know, what is Franklin PD doing here?

[00:34:54]

You know, it's 14 years later.

[00:34:57]

At what point is holding back this information detrimental to an investigation?

[00:35:03]

I mean, at what point do you does somebody say I mean, it took the Vidocq Society, it took a former FBI agent to be talking to this small town detective and say, hey, let this information go about these robberies or these burglaries.

[00:35:17]

Excuse me. Yeah, you got to do it. And he was like, OK, well, you know, he kind of saw this as an FBI guy. I'm going to I might as well do it. There's other information.

[00:35:27]

It might be other information about the crime scene that might not necessarily, you know, immediately put a light bulb on people's heads. But it at this point, 14 years later, can it hurt?

[00:35:43]

Yeah, it's so dependent on the circumstances. But the fact that, you know, somebody that is part of the Vidocq Society, they have a level of qualifications in which they've been accepted into that society. And I don't know who this FBI agent is, but the fact that he is coming forward and saying, yeah, you know, you guys need to release some of this information tells me that probably a more experienced investigator is telling this department it will only help you to release this information.

[00:36:11]

What other information is in this case that could be released, that could help solve the case? So that that's my big question.

[00:36:21]

Law enforcement says they continue to get tips, they get 10 tips or so a year, and the community continues to remember China and Blake billboards have been put up in hopes that a tip will lead to their killer or killers. But the most hopeful law enforcement has been on the case has come from cases that are using genetic genealogy to identify killers. And the Franklin Police Department resubmitted key pieces of evidence in twenty eighteen with the help of Indiana State Police in the hopes of using this same tool.

[00:36:53]

Wonder why they chose twenty eighteen.

[00:36:55]

We do not know what these pieces of evidence are. But Paul, from the little that law enforcement has released, do you have any idea of what this potentially could be?

[00:37:06]

I mean, it could be you know, it could be anything from this two by four to a rape kit. We have no idea.

[00:37:12]

Well, that's just it, you know, but in terms of evaluating the evidence as to what is going to be used from a DNA perspective, and that's not necessarily the only evidence. You know, what were there latents, you know, was late term processing done? Are there items collected in which maybe advanced chemical techniques can be done in order to pull up latents that haven't been recovered to date? But that's another way to identify somebody.

[00:37:39]

But, of course, DNA is the big thing right now and genealogy is the big tool. It would be taking a look at, OK, reconstructing the offender's interaction in the crime scene. How did he break in? How is he interacting with the victims and then taking a look where there's likely DNA? Of course, if there's a sexual component, you have to go after that, because that's where there is potential for a large amount of the offender's DNA being deposited, whether it be semen, whether it be saliva.

[00:38:10]

Did she fight back? Is it possible the offender was injured? Is he bleeding at the scene?

[00:38:16]

But then the intimate interaction to stab two victims, to asphyxiate Blake, to use a bludgeoning weapon on Blake, those are interactions that require that close interpersonal contact in which there could be contact, DNA or saliva or China is fighting back and she's trying to push this guy away.

[00:38:42]

A finger slips into his mouth or she punches him in the mouth. There's so many variables.

[00:38:49]

It basically is you have to look at everything, her clothing, Blake's clothing, the weapon, sexual assault kits, any swabs from either their bodies. And hopefully they did what I call blind swabbing in which literally you are just swabbing all the various areas on these victims bodies at autopsy to collect potential offender DNA, because oftentimes you can't see where that is. You don't know where the offender has licked or where there is offender DNA being deposited.

[00:39:20]

And you have one shot at getting that DNA because if they're if they're washed at autopsy or they're cremated, you've lost that evidence that could solve the case.

[00:39:35]

When you're looking at the DNA, when you're looking at a body, let's say at autopsy, a body that's not been sexually assaulted, they're going to start in certain places first.

[00:39:47]

Right? Are they going to start at the hands under the fingernails? Where do they go from there before they start doing blind? Well, you know.

[00:39:56]

If I have a a non a non sexual assault, and I will tell you that if I have a female victim, I always assume there's a sexual component until proven otherwise and I want her body processed as if that had actually occurred, even if she's fully clothed. But with in a general sense, of course, you're doing general documentation and then it's now kind of a layered approach. Taking a look at the transient evidence that might be on the body.

[00:40:25]

Is there any trace evidence? Is there any hairs that are present that you need to you can visualize and collect? There are any fiber evidence. It's doing what we would do. Tape lifts the stuff that we couldn't necessarily individually pick off.

[00:40:39]

And then it's taking a look at the clothing and making sure that we document the clothing and collect the clothing in a manner to preserve whatever evidence is possibly on it, whether it be blood pattern evidence, whether it be DNA evidence such as semen or saliva stains or even blood stains. And then once the body has been stripped down, now there is a processing of this body for physical evidence.

[00:41:05]

And this is where I get into the blind swabbing your swabbing around the victim's mouth, swabbing the victim's neck, swabbing the victim's breasts, the knuckles, individual fingers, the palm, the belly button, inner thighs, of course, the external genitalia.

[00:41:25]

We even solved a case of a of a middle aged woman who was fully clothed. But when when she was attacked, she fought back and the offender's DNA was found on the bottom of her foot because she was kicking at him. You have to process these bodies comprehensively. And sometimes you may collect over one hundred swabs from the victim's body.

[00:41:47]

And only one of those swabs will have the offender's DNA. But if it does, jackpot. Yeah.

[00:41:56]

So this case we're going to give you and the the assignment for this case. But before we do, we want to tell you about another case, too, that a bunch of people have sent to me just because I happen to be a Star Wars fan. This case is completely unrelated to China and Blake Dickersons murders, but I want to tell you about it.

[00:42:17]

So on on January twenty fifth, twenty nineteen on Tumblr, Texas, Elizabeth and Sergio Barraza, they were putting up notices for a yard sale around their neighborhood. And this couple, the reason why people sent me this case is because they were gigantic Star Wars fans. They were members of the Five Hundred First Legion. Now, these are people who dress up and don the uniforms of stormtroopers and scout troopers and imperial officers and Vader and that kind of thing.

[00:42:50]

And Elizabeth would actually don the uniform of the Imperial Scout trooper, which is the trooper that you saw riding the the scout bikes on Endor.

[00:43:00]

Yes, I'm geeking out.

[00:43:02]

So at six forty eight AM, Sergio left for work and Elizabeth was left to set up for this yard sale. So she's at her house. And just four minutes later, a dark colored Nissan Frontier, four by four pulled up to the home.

[00:43:21]

Someone gets out of the truck and they walk up to Elizabeth, and it seems like there's a some sort of maybe a word said maybe, but they're kind of facing each other.

[00:43:34]

But within eight seconds, Elizabeth was shot three times. The offender then stepped over her body and fired one more time and then got back into the truck and then left.

[00:43:47]

Now, Paul, I sent you the video, can you take a look at it? I'm seeing the surveillance. OK, so we see a car driving by down the street. It looks like a pickup truck and then a woman walking and then two people interacting up about halfway up into the front yard or sidewalk of the residence. Detective Tuck in, OK, and he's probably asking the public to identify the type of pickup truck.

[00:44:22]

So, Paula, it was interesting just from watching you watch it that you had said a woman walks up, that it appeared to be a woman on the video.

[00:44:33]

Yes.

[00:44:34]

OK, now, you know, the entire murder was easy to place time wise because cameras from the neighborhood, they caught it. We just watched it. And even according to witnesses, this Nissan Frontier had been seen in the neighborhood the night before and later in the day of Elizabeth's murder. And you have to think that maybe this frontier, because it pulled up just four minutes after her husband had went to work, that maybe. It was laying in wait, this killer was laying in wait.

[00:45:02]

Yeah, nothing was taken from this home.

[00:45:05]

And but when you look at the video, it's uncertain for me because my initial thing was that it was a woman. But the person is described by law enforcement as wearing a disguise on the video.

[00:45:17]

The offender appears to have long hair, but it could be a wig. And they're also wearing they appear to be wearing sort of a light colored muumuu nightgown.

[00:45:27]

OK, so kind of a larger loose fitting garment. Exactly. And what it looks like is, for lack of a better term, it looks like kind of an older woman, like a grandmother, maybe 70 years old. Sixty five years old, getting out of the getting out of this truck, walking up the front of this house and then killing this woman. Yeah.

[00:45:53]

Now, it would be interesting if law enforcement is thinking that it's a disguise. You know, besides the video, do they have any evidence? Do they have, like, wig fibers that may have fallen fallen off, that they recovered off the victim or in the surrounding area where she was shot?

[00:46:08]

Yeah, you know, it's so frustrating having a murder on video, but not being able to identify the killer.

[00:46:13]

You know, I worked on a case where the killer had a a Halloween mask on, you know, and I went that down a bunch of rabbit holes and eventually did identify what that mask was. It didn't. It didn't.

[00:46:29]

I don't believe it led to the arrest, but very well might have led to the ID, whoever had seen the things that I was posting and then and then contacted us.

[00:46:38]

But it was any clue that you have, you know, this clue, you know, I remember calling up, you know, costume companies and costume stores in the L.A. area trying to figure out where this guy might have bought this this mask. But I mean, if you could ID the mask, it's blurry. Then you can get a picture of the mask. And then when you have a picture of the mask, you put it out there and say, hey, anybody know anybody who has this mask?

[00:47:08]

Then all it takes is as somebody to say, I remember that person wore that mask or something similar to that at a Halloween party.

[00:47:17]

And then you can start from there or at least take a look at that person. Now, in Elizabeth's case, you know, when I hear the details about this case and I look at that video, it does look targeted.

[00:47:29]

You know, and and I've said this over and over. Victimology is huge.

[00:47:33]

You know, who in either Elizabeth's life or in Sergio's life would potentially have reason to kill Elizabeth? You know, Elizabeth may have done something that took somebody off. And you have to take a look at what's going on in her life.

[00:47:51]

And everybody everybody has a secret life, but do not limit to Elizabeth, even though she's the one that's killed, you know, by killing her, you hurt somebody else. And that could be the offender's purpose. It could be to hurt Sergio.

[00:48:08]

It could be to hurt somebody in Elizabeth's family or a friend.

[00:48:12]

You have to really kind of look at it as concentric circles as you do your investigation until you find something where you go, oh, here is somebody.

[00:48:22]

And that's close to Elizabeth that has something sketchy going on. Is this the reason she was killed? But it's such a targeted execution that, you know, victimology is probably going to be what will solve this case unless somebody comes forward from our listeners or you're doing your video thing, come up with something in which now we can figure out who's driving that that pickup truck or who's wearing that disguise and.

[00:48:53]

Even though the disguises as a woman, which might suggest that the person who's wearing the disguise is male, I wouldn't limit myself to that. You could have a woman wearing a woman disguise as well to try to alter the appearance.

[00:49:06]

Now, when you've got to sort of triangulate between the victimology, who would want to hurt this victim of a truck this four by four Nissan Frontier and who has access to that truck or owns that truck and then this disguise? Yeah, those are the three things that, you know, you know, it's a disguise, you know, with the victim. Do you have to look into that? And, you know, it's this truck.

[00:49:28]

And what you do know, she shot, you know, so minimally, there's bullets recovered. I don't know if there was a car cartridge cases recovered or anything, but do we have know make model information on the type of firearm used? Has that been entered into the NIBIN system to search to see if that gun has been used in other crimes?

[00:49:48]

You know, is there anything unusual about the firearm used? You know, is it limited? Is it is it rare? Can you get a list of registered owners of the gun and you start going down that list?

[00:49:58]

So there is some physical evidence in this case, but unfortunately, firearms allow offenders to kill at a distance. And so you generally don't get your DNA, your latents, your your trace evidence in these types of of homicides. You literally are just limited to bullets and cartridge cases and trying to hope that you can pull something out of that.

[00:50:21]

Yeah.

[00:50:21]

So the Harris County Sheriff's Office there also they have help from the Texas Rangers and Elizabeth's friends and family. They actually held a memorial for her, a vigil with all these lit up light sabers.

[00:50:34]

There's currently a twenty thousand dollar reward in this case.

[00:50:37]

If you're able to have a tip that leads to this case, you actually get it.

[00:50:43]

Get the reward from Chewbacca.

[00:50:45]

You get the reward from the Peter Mayhew Foundation. Peter Mayhew, who has recently passed away. He's the man who played Chewbacca and they have put up a 20 thousand dollar reward. That's great. So I think that's that's just fantastic. So we really want to stay on this one. We're going to be looking into doing I'm going to be talking to them to see if they want me to do some some sort of social media investigation on it just to see if we can drum up anything new and also maybe even try to clean up the video a little bit.

[00:51:18]

So now that gets us to our weekly assignment. The Franklin Police Department still has investigators actively working on China and Blake's case, which is the case we told you about at the top of the show, but after hundreds of leads and thousands of interviews, they still haven't identified their killer or killers. This is where the murder squad comes in. Any information on maybe the companies that were building in the Branigan area or the burglaries could be helpful because remember, this was an area where these houses were under construction.

[00:51:50]

There were a lot of vacant lots.

[00:51:52]

There were a lot of construction workers around there, too. That could have been could have been information there. No tip is too small. And investigators also believe that some people may have been burglarized and have not reported it because it was trivial. Only a few things were missing. They don't want to get hassled. So if you know a burglary during the time of China and Blake Dickersons murder, please let us know. And also, we are looking for any information about the murder of Elizabeth Baraza.

[00:52:23]

Take a look at that video. We will post it up on our social media and also on the website for the murder squad. It is we want any information on anybody that might have access to that Nissan Frontier four by four and anybody that would would have wanted to hurt Elizabeth Baraza.

[00:52:44]

As always, these are the rules, no side by sides, no naming names in public, no doxxing, be nice to each other.

[00:52:51]

Now on to the distractions. OK, Paul, what's your distraction this week?

[00:52:56]

Oh, you know, I've actually, for once, have a fair number of distractions, but it appears that a lot of our listeners are very concerned about Cora and how she's doing. You know, Khorram now a couple of weeks ago was attacked by a bear and had to have emergency surgery. She came through the surgery fine.

[00:53:19]

She had a pretty good gash on her side from a claw, as well as what appears to be a very serious bite to the base of her tail and then a gash above her left eye. All that was cleaned up. It was stitched up.

[00:53:35]

And then about six days ago, her stitches were removed. The wounds are healing and there doesn't appear to be any signs of infection. And quite frankly, from a trauma standpoint, she doesn't seem any different, just like nothing happened. And I think in her mind, she thinks she's the great bear hunter and she she won that battle. She's good. You know, she's probably dreaming about this, you know, this this fight with the bear. And it's probably one of the most exciting things in her life.

[00:54:12]

So she's doing great for a seven and a half years old. She's a ninety five pound yellow lab. She's slowing down. But, you know, I think this was quite an adrenaline rush from her. And I think she has fond memories of it, even though it caused all of us to have scares. But rest assured, she's doing great.

[00:54:33]

That's fantastic. Excellent. Good to hear. Yeah, I've got a couple of updates for my my distractions. They're not as serious as yours. You know, Taco Bell is ending their their menu. I did go and order all the menu items that they are getting rid of at E all at once.

[00:54:58]

I'm worried because I hate myself. How long did that take you to eat.

[00:55:02]

That can't be good for you. I'm not talking about it. OK, yeah.

[00:55:06]

I'm more concerned about the day after. Yeah.

[00:55:09]

Yeah they but here's the sort of crazy thing in the middle of this as we're hearing about them getting rid of all of these menu items, news comes out that they have launched a test campaign to serve chicken wings at Taco Bell. Really? Yes. Like what kind of flavored delight?

[00:55:35]

What kind of flavored wings?

[00:55:36]

It looks like it's maybe like a little bit spicy. It looks like, you know, just from the. So if anybody has tried the chicken wings, please, please let us know.

[00:55:45]

But a lot of people have reached out talking about Taco Bell. A lot of people thank you very much, especially to our British listeners. We love you all that you tell me about where I could find grand designs.

[00:55:58]

I'm still going through them. And I've been finding some bootleg episodes and things. And I got to get a VPN to watch all the other episodes that are on in Britain.

[00:56:07]

Well, you know, going back to the Taco Bell wings and I know we touched upon this in one of our prior episodes, but, you know, I don't eat meat off bone. So wings are not, you know, wings are not my thing. Now, boneless wings I can do, but not not real wings, not my thing.

[00:56:24]

Well, I tell you what, next time that you're here, I we will order them and I will cut them off the bone for you and feed them to you like a baby bird.

[00:56:37]

Oh that make them better. They'll still have the tendons and stuff. Yeah.

[00:56:40]

Yeah. I don't know if they. Yeah I'll tell them they it was mechanically separate.

[00:56:45]

I'm not sure it's going to work but we'll see. You can order up and then I can evaluate what I'm looking at and go from there. Yeah. Yeah. My other distraction basically is taking money from that. I normally would spend at the bar and spending it in Etsy shops because I know that a lot of these creators can't go to their shows. You know, a lot of them, they have like conventions and and art shows and things and they can't go to them.

[00:57:14]

So I'm like, you know, what if I can't do that, if I can't go to the bar and spend ten dollars on a cocktail, I will try to spend some on the artistic community or get some cocktails delivered to which I have been doing as well.

[00:57:29]

Ten dollars. I blame you for my new Etsy addiction, by the way. Yes.

[00:57:33]

Now Etsy is a yes. And I'm also trying to win for Empire Strikes Back broken glasses on eBay.

[00:57:41]

So good luck to me on that one. But anyway, please follow us on social, we are we might have hit 100000 by this time. We will see one hundred thousand people on our Instagram. We're going to start posting a little bit more on there, just fan art and things like that. If you got anything that you want to send us, we've got Mirch. We've seen a lot of people that are that are posting pictures of themselves wearing Murcheson, which is fantastic.

[00:58:09]

Remember to subscribe. Please remember to if you're new, give us a review. That'd be wonderful. And until then, keep digging. And don't be an irony. Jensen and holds the murder squad is produced by Exactly Right Media and Bench Clearing Productions senior producer Polly Kotowski, engineer Steven Rae Morris, music Tom Bribable executive producers. Karen Kilgariff. Georgia Stark. Danielle Cramer.