I kept getting fired from job after job, and finally I was like, you know, I'm just going to like, chillax, make some parts sort of see what happens and give up on my idea of a fancy career and a jappy lifestyle and just kind of become a potter. We talked about fitness before, we talked about spiritual fitness and couples who work out together and Mannick fitness versus relaxed fitness as it pertains to your personality. I do know a decent amount about diets because I grew up in an unhealthy household as it pertains to food and exercise.

And the word diet was something very common in my house. And you ripped out every magazine from Cosmopolitan or whatever magazines were popular then and promising. If you eat this food in one week and it had the pictures of everything you're supposed to eat, then you're going to lose weight. And back then it used to be every single person was on a diet and every single diet had conflicting rules. So I remember there was something that back then was called the stewardess diet, which is now would be the flight attendants diet.

And it literally had like one whole day of all fruit and then one whole day of all vegetables than one day of beef and tomatoes. Then a day you could have a hot dog and two scoops of ice cream, like it was literally the constipation diet, the diet, the let's see how stupid people are, a diet where I mean, if you ate fruit all day, vegetables another day and just if you ate pizza or popcorn one day, you'd probably lose weight because you're not going to eat 50 pieces of pizza like all of these crazy diets have the word die in them.

I don't believe in the word. I hate to even say the word today, but. I just having gone through so many years and so many iterations of this multibillion dollar industry, it just brings me to believe we are so stupid. So I listen to everybody now it's Kitto and I'm on the Kaito and I do Kaito, I practice Kaito. And Kitto is basically like a cousin of Atkins and South Beach and Zohn. So Atkins' really started where it was.

You could eat sixty five steaks, forty five pieces of bacon, thirty scrambled eggs, much cheeses. You want Cobb salad dressing, Caesar salad dressing, et cetera. You ate a fucking stick, a trident gum. You gained 40 pounds like it was literally you eat a piece of watermelon and the carb police are going to come to your house and arrest you. And you were supposed to buy these like urine sticks that you peed on because you're supposed to go into ketosis, which many doctors say is not a good thing for your body to go into.

Not to mention that really is the constipation, dehydration, diet. Like you can eat four hundred pieces of beef jerky, but you're not allowed to have an orange slice. You're not even allowed to probably have them. You might be allowed to have some lemon in your water. But like, this is fucking crazy. And then years later, the Atkins diet, the Atkins diet bars came out and it were like sort of OK, but they had some carbs and God only knows.

And then that diet sort of changed a little bit more to be more sort of human. And the South Beach Diet is a distant, healthier cousin of the Atkins diet. But it was basically that you could just never combine food. So if you were going to eat the steak with the vegetables and the lettuce and the ten pounds dressing, that was OK. But on the meals that you were going to have whole wheat pasta because white is not OK, holy is OK.

And those meals, because you were eating carbs, you weren't allowed to have any fat. You could only have like the carbs with the tomato sauce and the vegetables. But no fat fat only goes the protein at those meals. OK, so this is how the craziness this is how crazy this was. Then there were other food combining diets where you're not allowed to eat anything in the morning and then you're allowed to eat fruit, but you cannot eat fruit any part of the day besides the morning getting fruit in between meals.

You can't eat fruit after a meal. You can only eat fruit in the morning on an empty stomach. Incidentally, that makes some sense because your body, after it's been fasting all night, acid in orange or citrus or fruit in the morning, is best digested on an empty stomach. And the food combined, I think, does make some sense. It's why after Thanksgiving dinner, you are so exhausted. It's not because of the tiny amount of tryptophan you're getting your turkey.

It's because of all the different food groups that your body is trying to digest at the same time. So the machine is working overtime, which is why fast and cleanses and juicing do have their health benefits if supervised. If you understand them, meaning when your body, the machine is off and you're only eating, let's say, fruits and vegetables or you're not eating animal or sugar or caffeine or meat, which is harder to digest, or you've taken it to the next level and you're doing just different types of smoothies and soups, which also comes your system because it's not working overtime to digest that food and take it to the next level.

If you're doing green juices or regular juices or when people do the master cleanse, which is way more extreme, or people even to a water fast, the point is people do heal themselves this way because the machine, which is your body, is focusing on itself versus like the energy that the machine takes to digest food. But we could do a whole other thing on that. That could be an entire podcast in and of itself, and I'd be willing to do it so.

After the Atkins diet came out, maybe 10 years later, there used to be the Beverly Hills Diet, I forgot that used to be the California diet, the Mediterranean diet, the San Francisco diet. I mean, it sounds like I'm making all this up. It's all real. So Atkins is like all fat, all protein, all animal, all like clogged arteries and constipation and ketosis. On the other end. There used to be this woman named Susan Poutre who had bleached blond, platinum short hair.

She used to go on television with piles and piles for drama, piles of pasta, piles of baked potatoes, piles of pretzels, anything fat free. It's fat free. You can eat fat free as long as you eat only fat free. It has no fat. You can as much of it as you want. Steak, bad, fat, oil, bad avocado was the goddamn motherfucking devil. The devil. I used to think avocado was a sin.

Like back in the days when sushi came out, avocado was a sin. Now I literally I bathed in avocado. I rub it all over my body and I lick it off. So back then avocado was the goddamn devil, but 40 pounds of pasta was OK as long as you didn't have a drip of oil in it. So if you went to a restaurant, you had to, like, literally take the waiter by the throat, make sure that there was no oil whatsoever made used in the process of making that pasta.

And then that was when everything became fat free and everything that used to be atkins' and everything that was whatever became fat free. So you'd be at food shows and anybody who had fat in their products was a loser and anybody who everything was fat free. And then people started promoting bread, fat free pretzels, fat free beer like pretzels were always fat free, you know what I mean? Like they started being like Diet Coke is fat free. It's like no shit.

It's always been fat free, brown rice, fat free. We know it's fat free. So that was that. And then a later happy medium was the low carb diet. So now you were sort of back to the South Beach diet with another name. So everything is a remix. I think it was like Bill Gates said it. Everything is a remix. All of it's bullshit. I don't know what to tell you. I could go on for days, I will go on another time, but I'm just saying, like, be sensible, OK?

Have a decent relationship with food. The one rule I could tell you is do not binge and make good investments. Meaning if you are going to eat plain grilled chicken, which bores me, you can eat more of it. If you're going to eat fatty eye, which excites me, you're going to eat less of it. If you are PMS or you need a piece of chocolate cake, try not to eat the whole thing, but then don't have bread and wine after and during dinner.

Like, you know what, balance it out. It's checks and balances. It's the same way you spend your money just just just spend wisely. Try to get an early return on your investment and meaning. If you eat something healthy, you're going to feel good or it's going to fill you up like a salad and chicken or soup or whatever. And if you don't invest wisely, then make up for it elsewhere.

My guest today is designer Jonathan Adler, who is at the top of his game, he has an interior design brand of all these different products to just make your house come alive. It's whimsical. It's fun like him, and it's a signature style. I have several pieces of his work in my home, and I truly, truly love his work. It just it is a brand. So he's here because he has absolutely, unequivocally built a brand and also built an e-commerce business, which is huge and truly necessary in this day and age.

So he started out as a potter and now he has stores all over the country. I am so excited to share our conversation with you today as we talk about how he developed his brand and he became a household name. And I hope you enjoy this as much as I do.

Hi. Hi, how's it going? I'm good. So nice to see you. So nice to see you also. I just finished a place in Connecticut and you are ever present. My daughter has those multiple color bubble bedside lamps and I have those sort of mixed metal sconces in my dining room. You know, the ones that like have the the lines and gold and maybe it's like a squirrel. I've got the evil eye table. I mean, almost erring on the side of buying too much of your stuff.

And it looks like you're in my house. I'm all in with everything.

Never enough. Never too much. All right. Well, Art, you I think you're amazing.

I literally I could go on. I have so many things in my house and I think you're so creative and so innovative. And, you know, there are many successful and talented and a deep architectural digest published designers, but you can't name that many that have an actual brand. And this show is the filter on. This brand is not about being famous, rich or powerful. It's about having built a brand or being a game changer. You created an industry, a maverick start in the bottom.

Now we're here. So that's why it was important to me to talk to you, because, I mean, I really can't think of very many people that have built a brand like yours that is constantly changing and that is obviously thriving and it's just desirable and interesting and quality and fun. And you're kind of checking so many of the boxes.

Well, thank you very much. I'm doing what I can, just trying to stay relevant and, you know, stay creative.

Well, how long do you feel that you have been relevant?

Well, it's it's actually a really interesting question. I started my business quite accidentally, like twenty seven years ago, how to take old.

And the idea of relevance is kind of interesting because I feel like I've been I've been very, very lucky that I've had a long run. And I hope I'm still relevant. I mean, it's not something I think about very much. I really think about trying to stay authentic and true and just kind of follow my creative muse wherever she leads me. And I think that the idea of relevance, I think as long as you're authentic, you're relevant. And that's kind of how I approach and evolving and evolving.

Evolving. Well, I know what I like, but I think commercially, which is ultimately what you're doing is a brand and you don't want to just be niche. I think you probably are more relevant than you ever have been to me. It keeps up. I mean, it's been the last 10 years that I feel like it's popped off. That's what I think. But I may not know everything.

Well, bless your heart. I hope that's true. That's what I really do think.

So you started off by doing pottery, right? Like you're you're a potter by trade.

Yeah, I started off, as I said, a long time ago, making pottery, thinking it was something I always wanted to do with my life. But of course I'm a little bit jappy, and it never crossed my mind that I would be able to have a Jappy lifestyle and be a potter. Luckily, I failed at every job I ever had when I was young. So when I got out of college, I tried to work in the movie business and I had a very poor work ethic and very loose morals.

So I would show up late.

I was sleeping with my boss and everybody else in the office.

You're like and Silver Linings Playbook when she said fired because she slept with everyone. And Bradley Cooper says, well, how many people? She said eleven years ago. That's a no.

Well, I couldn't. Unfortunately, I was I wasn't even I wasn't even as good as she is. I sucked everything. So I kept getting fired from job after job. And finally I was like, right. You know, I'm just going to like, chillax, make some parts sort of see what happens and give up on my idea of a fancy career and a jappy lifestyle and just kind of become a potter. It was very like Brooklyn in Williamsburg before that idea even existed.

And then, you know, miraculously, miraculously, over the years, I managed to be an actual Brooklyn potter and a job. So I made it all happen. It all came full circle for me. But yeah, I started out as a potter a long time ago and just was in my studio all day making stuff and got an order from Barney's and just filled the order and very gradually continue to get more orders and never really had a plan, never even really thought I was launching a business or really doing much of anything considered myself unemployed until about two years after I had gotten that first order from Barney's, I was out of I was at a party and my mom was there.

And someone said to me, like, Jonathan, what are you doing? Do you have a job? And I said, No, I'm unemployed right now. And my mother said, No, you're not your potter. And I thought, Oh, yeah, I'm a potter. And I thought, I have a career. I'm a potter.

Well, how are you supporting yourself during that time? Did you come from a. Privileged background. Because you said a Jewish American princess, which is a Jewish American princess. I came from sort of a nice solidly upper middle class, but not rich family. So I went to a fancy college and for some reason or other, all my friends were these heiresses, and they never really had to think about working. And I thought for some reason, I just sort of took on their identity and thought, well, why would one really have to work and cut to I got out of school and I was like, oh, one has to work, this one has to pay the bills.

So, yeah. So I was very lucky. My parents paid for college and they were always there to help. But it wasn't dynastic wealth that that my friends had. However, I think that one of the benefits of being friends with a lot of kind of like fancy designing stylish people from college was that I never really developed a practical streak. And I think that served me well as a as a designer because I, I really approached my work not from the level of not from a real sense of practicality or business or from sort of an airy fairy artistic approach.

And that's something I've managed to stay true to.

Well, I think what's great about your brand and what you've just said, though, is so if I design something, I like it to be not to taste specific. So I then can accessorize with things that you make and have those be the moments versus like every single thing I have being like making a loud statement. So I think that that's where your brand is amazing, because if you just need something to just make something look fun, lighthearted, special, designed, kind of comes in with a lighting fixture, with a with a Vyse, with a piece of furniture, a pillow.

So I think that's really something that's amazing. I know you have obviously major pieces of furniture and I own that. But I think that's a cool a cool element about your brand. Well, you know, that really comes from.

I had a I had a very groovy grandmother who is sort of an Auntie Mame type of person. And I remember I would go to her house and she had fabulous tastes and I would pick up an object and it would be completely riveting and inspirational and transformational. I would like pick up a sculpture off the table and say, where's this from? She said, Oh, it's in Denmark. And I found this jeweler and he made this thing or I was in Mexico and I went to a and Iron Smith thing and moments.

She just had fabulous, inspirational moments. And I think that I've always strived to be the dude who makes the stuff that the next generation of mes will pick up and be like, oh, this is cool, this is inspiring. This makes me want to make stuff. So, you know, I hope I'm making the stuff that will sort of be weird and provocative and trigger people's imaginations. And my real goal in life is to sort of battle the basic.

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I'm the absolute worst. I wish I could say that I was more varsity in my strategy, and I know I should be at this point, but I kind of just I do a lot of stuff intuitively and what feels right. So I might retire some stuff if I'm sick of it or if I still love it, I keep it around it. Really. I'm sort of the the arbiter of what stays and goes, however. Talking about my company and my business, what my brand, whatever you want to call it, makes me realize what a kind of junior varsity person I am in that I never really had a business plan.

I've never really been as strategic as I should be. And perhaps that's what I hope keeps me authentic.

I didn't ever really have a business plan, but I am very strategic. And what would you say your brand is in the elevator pitch?

You know, we call our brand kind of modern American glamor. And it's really it's a reflection of the fact that my design is, I hope, modern. I always am trying to push the envelope, make things that are new and forward thinking. I think that my work is very American in that I am a very American dude.

I love this country. I love this sense of optimism and possibility that is uniquely American and to modern American and glamor, because I think glamor, I hope, is at the core of everything I do. And glamor is one of those funny words that people throw around but can't ever really define it. Sort of an ineffable thing. But I guess to me, glamor means being memorable. You know, so, yeah, modern new American, optimistic, glamorous, memorable.

I love it, I get it. And it's true. A little retro if you like. So many designers, many very successful designers have made mistakes. I've been talking more in fashion the way when I'm thinking about in my mind, who I'm thinking about have made mistakes in that they're amazing, brilliant designers, but not amazing business people, and that they some of them have made the mistake of thinking they're good business people and some have made the good choice to have amazing business partners who had literally just business guys or gals.

And they're the designers. So do you. It sounds like, you know what you know and you know what you don't know, because before you were explaining that you gave in certain ways. So it sounds like, you know what you know. Do you consider yourself to be a business person in addition to a designer or really just a creative and you need to have the right people around you to do the business. I've become an accidental businessman. You know, it's not something it's not something I even understood at all going into this.

I didn't even know an invoice was I was an extremely airy fairy, impractical person. And over the years, I've, of course, had to learn how to navigate the world on the same.

By the way, shocking to people and the same, by the way. I'm sure I think that's as it should be.

I don't think you can be you or where you're like you're weird. You're this one off thing. You can't become that weird one off thing. By being a business person, you have to just be you and then learn the business as it unfolds, or else you wouldn't be able to be you. But over the years, of course, I've had ups and downs and I've had fabulous business partners and fabulous business partners and businesses evolve and they're sort of like living organisms.

And if you were to take a snapshot of my company at any given time, that might be I might have the perfect team of the imperfect team. Right now we are killing it. We have an amazing team. How many? Probably like a hundy.

That's a lot. And that's a prize because you have a massive business. And where is everybody?

And right now, because of the pandemic, where is everybody? We're in far flung locales doing everything virtually and, you know, managing to keep it all together. And as it relates to the pandemic, I am extraordinarily lucky person to be one of the few who hasn't been destroyed by the pandemic. And I, I certainly don't take it for granted. And I really don't know what I would have done had I been, say, fifteen years younger and earlier in my company where like, I didn't sort of have the scale or the support to weather this.

I don't know what I would have done if I was like a small business owner during this time. I probably would have been like if I was like young, younger. And at that stage, to be honest, I, I think I probably would have been like going in every day and like and defying all orders just to keep my business alive. I have tremendous sympathy for small business owners who are not going into their store. It's a really it's a really tough position.

And I think as a small business owner, I really understand that business is war. It's really meaningful. Building something is extraordinarily difficult. I feel awful for all of the small business owners who are being decimated. And I'm happy I'm not in their shoes. And I really, honestly don't know how I would have handled it. I think I probably would have been pretty. Bold and defiant, I think I would have been I think, again, I think that's a reflection.

Yeah, business of war. And I think I think that if you have a small business, you know, whether you have insurance or whatever you have, you're still kind of a little bit of a warrior. And I think that that was an important part of my journey. And I I feel awful for people right now. It's all so well said.

I'm glad. I honestly, I'm glad you said it. We haven't talked enough about it. Do you have partners in this business and this brand? I do.

I do. And that was something that I kind of developed over time. You know, I sort of I've had the good luck and smart luck to find people and resources that I need to continue my journey. Funnily enough, the main focus, though, for me has always just been creativity. So I kind of see my whole thingy as a as a very selfish endeavor in that my goal in life is just to make groovy stuff and keep doing it as long as I can and finding the resources and ways to make it all happen.

So I see my business as more of a means to an end than an end in and of itself.

Well, there's so many people that listen here for brand building and business. Do you feel that you still have control and that if you have partners, you've had to give some either control or some obviously percentage money way? And what advice do you have to people? What what sort of mistakes have you made? What has been good about it? Because what's odd is that I get a lot of emails and messages from people asking me. They tell me how much money they're making and they tell me the piece of their business that they have and what they're paying themselves a year.

But someone wants to come in and take part of it. And should they take some money, you know, then you get a pile of money and get some money off the table and you know the drill. It's like I'm in I'm like the mini shark tank all the time. So how has that affected you? Because I own one hundred percent of the skinny girl and the brand, which surprises people because I only sold the cocktail portion and now my not compete is up.

And so I'm going to launch another cocktail, not with Skinny because I don't own Skinny Girl. And for a decade I was still involved because I was still a spokesperson. I had a back end deal. So in owning one hundred percent, it's been a conversation. I actually had the conversation with Mark Cuban, who's been on here, if I would sell part of it and what the reason would be and what I would use the money for, et cetera.

So do you have control and how do you feel about having other people involved? And what was that decision like in that journey to do that?

Oh, my God, I was so happy to get other people involved because I hated having all the responsibility myself. So I started off. It was me, a lump of clay, which is essentially just earth, water and fire. You know, it's like a like making pots is extremely elemental and basic. It's primitive even. And I was quite primitive. And to go from that world in which it was just me, mud, fire and water to this world, I'm I feel incredibly grateful every step of the way.

The more people I've brought in and the bigger my company has become, the happier I am to give up a piece of it and and sort of acquire a merry band of co conspirators in this journey who all share the responsibility and the passion I felt when it was me, fire, water and clay. I felt really overwhelmed by everything. So the journey of having people who are as invested in this and in as invested in me as I am in this has actually been.

Incredibly fabulous. Emotional journey not to get all, like, whatever, no, it's cool, but, you know, when I first started, it was it felt very overwhelming, very suffocating. Yeah. So I'm thrilled to have to be a part of a team now rather than to be a one man band.

Wow. OK, so it's been positive because you're as a designer, it seems like you've made the right moves in the right choices or got lucky or a combination of all. So it's been positive, like you're happy with the partnerships and you are happy that you gave away a piece of your business for the greater cause and to really blow it out and build it. Oh, my God.

Totally. And I think that's more a reflection of who I am as a person. Like, I'm not a gambler. I don't really like I hate gambling. In fact, I don't really sort of risk averse. And my genuine, like priority in life is to make groovy stuff like that's what occupies my brain and give it to be able to be free to do that.

And it gives you got it. I got it.

Yeah. And so if I if I was spending all day and night worrying about like business and banks and risk and I think it would really impede my ability to do what I do. I agree. I get it completely to because it's something it takes up so much bandwidth is take me away from what you really would like to be doing. And it's that I've had that experience, too, with having now having good business managers doing a show on HBO called The Big Shot with Bethenny and finding someone that I like to be me.

I don't want to have to have all these ideas and think about all these things. I want to sometimes be the talent and not be the CEO, sometimes be just free to be doing my podcast, talking to you and not be thinking about the seven thousand things that I'm thinking about.

Because anyone who needs who needs the Michigan State. Yeah, there's enough Michigan in the world that like for me it's like do I what I do, I want to be Jeff Bezos or do I want to be me? I'm sure he's like loving being that rich, but like that ain't my focus. My focus is on making groovy stuff. And yeah, you know, I'm also lucky dude, in that like I'm gay. I don't have a huge amount of responsibility.

It's just like me, my adorable husband, Simon, and our cute dog Foxy. And, you know, I don't I just don't have that much responsibility. So I think that my focus can be being creative and probably being really selfish. I'm awful.

I was going to say there should be a product of yours that says the word selfish on it.

I don't know what I know. Right. Yeah. I think you should have a selfish thing. Your piece. What is your favorite piece of all of your work and what is your favorite thing to do? Oh, my God.

Probably, probably whatever I've made most recently, it's my favorite thing.

But if I had to say perhaps it's like I make this groovy is called a Dora Marvis. I have it. It's thank you for your custom. I appreciate it.

I have the one also that has painted on it, not just the one where it is the face, but do you have the faces painted on it. That was it again in a moment. Yes, I did that, yeah, exactly. I think that piece is a real reflection of me at my best, which is I hope I make things that look kind of like they were always just meant to be. And like I really sort of channeled them rather than created them.

I think that's what that phase reflects. Like, it's, you know, it it kind of just came out of the world and I was merely there to unearth it. Yeah. I mean, that's how I think things should look. I think things should look completely effortless, like they're just there. But unfortunately, nothing is ever that simple. But so yeah, I think I think my work at its best looks like so obvious that you just think to yourself like, oh, how could the world ever not had that.

Oh yeah. Yeah.

I live for my furry babies, I have two rescues, Biggie Smalls. They are one litter. Their mom is going to be euthanized while they were in her belly. They are my children. They are my Quadron team. I live for my babies. My daughter loves my babies. There's not enough to say about how obsessive my animals I am. They're not even animals. They're babies that people say when you have a child, your babies become dogs, you fur babies become dogs.

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Are you decisive because the way that I look at design and the way that you design, when I look through a lot of the pictures, it's like cooking. You could easily use cilantro, basil or parsley in a fish recipe with olive oil and garlic. And it would be great. All of those ways. You don't have to make a decision and keep it moving. And so when I look at the design, some of it seems like crazy, accidental ends up looking good.

And I feel like it's a little bit like cooking with decisions, pick, pick a decision and keep it moving. It could have been blue, green, yellow. Doesn't matter just then go to the next thing that goes with that. It's like the smartest thing you've ever said. That's exactly what it is, and yeah, I am super decisive. And one of the fabulous things about being a an applied artist versus like a fine artist is that I have just a ton of things on the go all the time.

I have to make decisions constantly about anything from a sofa to a chair to an interior to a pot. But it's not like I sit there and contemplate the next brush stroke I'm going to take. And I think that pace of decision making and being decisive, I hope, gives my work a feeling of freshness and clarity. And I think things shouldn't be overworked. I always think about hairdressers and how really good hairdressers are pretty quick and they understand that, like, you kind of just got to like start cutting and go and not think too hard about it.

And I think the same applies to design. It applies to cooking, to business, to life, to everything. I agree. I agree.

And people at home are listening. And I'll say that, for example, my girlfriend, she's been obsessing over what to do with her kitchen for like a year and then obsessing over when to organize her closets. And I just pick something and keep it moving. It ain't that deep. There could be seven things you could pick and then nest around that move stuff around you, things you have. Like I took a bench that's outdoor furniture, my house.

It's been outside for six months and I just took and I like why did I like that? Be good behind my couch just to hold a candle. Like a lot of different things work. You have to start looking at things differently. When I used to go to IKEA and find these planters, I was like, oh, they'd be good for kitchen utensils. Like everything you already have in your house is something you probably could use in some different way.

I use Ziploc containers for my daughter's crayons and markers and buttons and extra pieces, and I use the clips from binder clips for chips if I'm out of it. Like everything can work in different ways. If you just open your eyes.

I think especially Ziploc bags. Oh my God. I can't even talk about my durable husband, Simon. His dad had a great saying which was about to tell you have to make a decision. He said, look, everything has to be some way. So just make a decision and move on. Don't be paralyzed. Know, it's going to be what you just have to make a decision. Everything has to be something.

What if you've ever done a cool brand? I would like to do whimsical permanent Ziploc bags that have like where that snap thing is neon or something and says on it make up. And so it's like a more durable Ziploc bag to put inside for your toiletries or things like that. That would be just like, you know, something we could cook.

Yes. It's a great idea. You want to eat it? I love it. Right. What is it?

But containers, we can make our own containers and I could sell many of them anyway. Totes. So think about it. Think about it. What does someone get you as a gift? People must be so intimidated by getting you a gift.

I hope nobody ever gets me anything because I'm like, do I have enough stuff? Like if like just give it straight to housing works when I am like that.

But I don't like not getting a gift.

I'm ah you know, thank God you are. If you need to buy a gift you can just go straight to John Mather Dotcom. But if you need to buy a gift for me, don't bother. I don't want more stuff, not even if it's food or something like that.

Except for food for. OK, so we'll get a different get food. OK, great. Yeah.

All I do, I eat, I work out and I work out and I work on it. I'm like a hamster wheel eating and exercising, eating and exercising. It's a disaster.

What be that noise. Yeah that's food and exercise noise. If you exercise just a little bit less than you wouldn't want to eat as much. But that's a different conversation for a different day. What do you give as gifts? I do get your brand, you give Jonathan either, always, always good. Yeah, of course. I you know, I sometimes I encounter like a designer who doesn't wear his own clothes or doesn't live with his or her own stuff.

And I'm like, well, then why are you inflicting on on the rest of the world? If you don't love it, don't make it right.

That was like a housewives moment when the woman she by Shiori wasn't wearing. She by Sharon. Not that. Oh my God.

Jesse Ventura is I talk about Steve usherette every single day of my life. And I'll tell you why. When she Bashary was launching her first collection, she like Yeah. Collection she hired designer. She got like all the samples made and she was getting her samples the day of her show and she got them and she was like, she was like, wait, this doesn't look like I thought it would look. And she was like Shray obviously like the samples is the very first step in a very, very long, arduous, analytical, massaging process.

An edit. It's the edit. It's the book that's now in the edit. Oh, dude, it's like the it's like people say writing is rewriting, designing is redesign. I'm like, get the first sample sucks at the tough part isn't coming up with the design. The tough part is getting the first sample, seeing how much you hate it and have them and taste and everything that's wrong with it.

Exactly. And you are a person who comes from a place of. Yes, but still you know that samples are shit, they're shit.

And you need to like you hate yourself. You think, oh, I screwed everything up, then you got to like, roll up your sleeves and say like, all right, how can I fix this? How can I make the proportions better? Why don't the materials look good? Better. And she by Shahraz, emblematic of the current challenge, our culture, which is everybody thinks they're brand, everybody thinks they're designer. Nobody wants to do the actual work.

Oh, that's totally true. And I guess I was going to say she by story has never been emblematic of anything until this moment. And yes, she my story is emblematic of that. I literally talk about she boucherie every house brand ever, ever launched.

Well, many. Oh, wow. Well, it was so good talking to you. I think you're wonderful and I'm so proud of you. And I think your success is well deserved. And I honestly congratulate you and just wish you the best of everything. I appreciate you coming on here because you're an amazing company. I will tell you that we've got good stuff going on. One hundred percent.

Right. That got you. Ditto on all of the above. Your fabulous. And this was like such a great chance to, like, really bro down with you. One hundred percent.

It happens where I know people but never really get to talk to them about these things. And I love that part about this. Yeah.

Like I've known you forever. We haven't had a proper bro down, so I'm glad we did meet and I hope more to come.

So, Jonathan, I was really interesting because he just kind of created a job, a career and a business and a brand out of a passion, and I can relate to that because I'm a person who tried to be an actress, wasn't really that good at it, didn't feel natural at it because it wasn't me.

Just being me and being a host wouldn't be me, because that also felt sort of staged and scripted. So just being me ended up how I started my career on television.

And I just liked that he loved doing pottery. He didn't do well at working. And so he thought, you know, he was sort of possibly going to fail. He didn't know how he would succeed, which I can relate to in many of us can. But when you just are good at something and find a way to hone that skill and find a way to market and monetize that skill, it's amazing. And, you know, he really just took a passion and then just was selling those items and realized that they have some value.

And then what you do with that is really important. So he just went one step at a time in his trajectory and really created a signature brand. You understand exactly what it is when you see it. He knows exactly how to describe it in an instant. He really doesn't stray from the line to which all things adhere. And I mean that when you have a brand, you should be able to describe exactly what that is in an elevator to somebody.

And you may want to layer elaborate, but I know that my brand and skinny girl is practical solutions for women and in the Bethenny brand that I'm just launching and eyewear soon is elevated solutions for women.

So you kind of get it. And with his brand, he could describe it to you.

But I would say it's fun, whimsical, not taking yourself too seriously, design, you know, high quality and colorful. And he could describe it better than I could. But with each business that we talk about, with each person who is definitely a success in their own right, in some way you can piece together your own puzzle for your own business, in your own brand or your own life.

Just everybody has these life jackets and life tips about just their journey. So that's kind of what this whole thing is about. I appreciate you listening and I hope you enjoyed it.

So please remember to rate review and subscribe and just be with Bethenny because it's kind of how we get feedback and stay at the level we're at and get these amazing guests and have these interesting conversations. And it just really helps. The interaction is helpful to us and to find out exactly who you are, that gives us an insight into who you are and what you want.

So thank you so much, as always.

Have a great day. GSP is hosted and executive produced by me, Bethenny Frankel, Real Productions and Endeavor Content. Our managing producer is Samantha Allison and our producer is Caroline Hamilton. Corey Preventer is our consulting producer with the ever faithful, Sarah Cattanach as our assistant producer. Our development executive is Nayantara. Roy just B is a production of Endeavor Content and spoke media. This episode was mixed by Sam Baer. And to catch more moments from the show, follow us on Instagram at Just With.