Hi, I'm Chelsea Devadas, host of Celebrity Book Club, a new podcast from Stitcher, each episode of this book club explores the power of women telling their messy, sometimes ugly, mostly empowering stories in their own words. So come join me. Come get in the book club. Let's talk some shit.

Celebrity Book Club is out now. Listen, Instict, your Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. You're the most professional guest we've had, really? Yeah, you come in, you're like signing the things and you're ready to go.

I'm ready to go into journalism face on. I know. I also do what you did. Like, I don't want to talk to you now. I've got a way to talk to you. We're talking. It's happening right now. Oh, we're happy. We've already started. This is this has read.

This is how you begin reading and you're still old school. No, I'm not. I'm old school in some ways. Yeah. And that I'm very new school in other ways. Well I know that.

Well now we're so Maria, you're like you're like, oh OK. Let me turn the corner. I turn the corner. Hello, everybody, and welcome to literally with me, does it sound different to you right now because I'm sitting in my car doing this because my wife has mover's at the house, so don't turn it off if the sound quality is not up to par. And don't turn it off, you hear my stomach growling, starving at the moment anyway, Maria Shriver is one of my favorite people on the planet.

I wish she would run for president. And I'm not kidding. She's not only with the smartest, brightest, most beautiful, most articulate people I know, but she comes from a fantastic legacy and has raised amazing kids. And I adore her.

And I hope you enjoy this as much as I do.

And I promise I won't do any more of these intros from my car ever again. Maria, what was the first time we met? I'm trying to think of. Do you know when it was I actually remember the first time I saw you, which is different the first time. That was the first time I saw you was skating ice skating in in Sun Valley.

Know a little rink now because you came to Sun Valley because you already knew me. That's much later. When was that? Well, that couldn't be the first time you saw me then.

That was the I saw you there when Catherine was literally Arnold was pushing Katherine on a chair across the ice rink as there was an announcement. No chairs on the ice rink. Please return the chairs, the ice. I knew you then.

Did you know me then? Yeah.

When was the first time you remember meeting me? I met you at the harbor. It's.

Oh, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, I met you at the harbor. That was the, the, the harbor. We didn't really kind of. I don't know that we, it was more like we just met and then we had kids at around the same time and I became friendly with Cheryl. That's right.

And then I remember us ending up in the Bahamas. That's correct. That's right. At the same time really bonding. It shows fortieth birthday. And I, of course, campaigned for your father when I was eight. You did? Yeah. McGovern Shriver.

I have the book that I have McGovern Shriver like. I admire McGovern Shriver button. That's so great.

Well, we didn't meet them, though. I was campaigning for them, too. I came to Ohio. Did you come to Dayton?

I probably did come to Dayton. I met. Yeah, no, we didn't meet. We could have met then imagined. I'm a magic guy and I was sixteen.

So that tells you I'm older than you.

You would have looked at me and got older woman going, wow, older woman allow whole past. But no, we have to wrap. So we've known each other for. For what.

How many. It's probably say more than twenty years.

More than twenty years in twenty years. Yeah. Yeah. Through thick and thin. Yeah. High and low. I mean those are the best relationships.

Yeah. And through, through, through life events that if we had said, if somebody had said hey here's what's going to happen in the future, you been like no it's not me. I get to your mind. And we've lived to all of it good and everyone. Why I think this comes back to this is a moment and we're going to get through it.

You do such a great job of of sort of leading your family and your kids as your kids are like my second kids. That's right. And vice versa. Yeah.

What do you find the difference between the way they think and the way we think? And I'm talking specifically so much about your kids and play about just generationally.

Like when I sit with my boys, I am always blown away with their world view because in many ways it's so different.

Yeah. Than than mine.

And I don't know if it's a product of the fact that they're younger or if it is a product of they've grown up in a different time.

Well, I think your parents probably felt that about you. Right, for sure. And so I think we always think that about people who come along and have different experiences. So because they are different, they're having different experiences. And I think the truth is that we're all different every day from the day before. We're all different every year from the day before. And so they have less time to be different. Their worldview is different. They I was talking this morning, you know, like I grew up in having collective moments.

I grew up in and assassinations. I grew up in the civil rights movement. I grew up in the AIDS epidemic. I have a reference point for what's going on for what we're experiencing right now. Right. They don't have that. So I would say barely have 9/11. They have 9/11, clearly. But that was a moment. Right. And this is a moment also. It's been dragged out, but we're not being called to come together.

9/11, we were called to come together after my uncle's assassination. We came together, the civil rights movement, marches and assassinations. We didn't really. And I think we have the repercussions. I think this is a moment that leaders can call us together.

But why don't we listen, this is a longer conversation. What? But that's why we do a podcast, because we have long conversations.

So why don't we have the kind of leaders what is what does all leaders. I think we're all leaders. All right. I think if you look at I get less Miz Schriver.

Yeah, I get you. I get you on that one.

I want to know why we don't have the public leaders. What's listen, this is this is your wheelhouse. This is this is right where you live.

You know, this has been your whole life around public leaders. Right. Where have they gone? Joe DiMaggio?

I think there are public leaders. I think there are public leaders. I look at my brother at the Special Olympics movement, the movement for people who are developmentally disabled. He's leading. He's leading globally. He's leading with language. He's leading in stature. He's leading in every way possible. I think there are people in all of these different entities who are leading beautifully.

Why don't they go? Why don't they go into it? You just have to follow them. Why don't they go into politics? They have their own stages. Right. And I think in politics isn't the only place to lead. I think that that's a false view of the world, that it's the only place I think we see spiritual leaders. We could see nonprofit leaders, we can see gun reform leaders, we can see journalistic leaders, we can see family leaders.

I think, you know, is there you know, I think certainly the other moment I saw Joe Biden stand up and lead in a very calm, reassuring way. I think the wave that you just saw recently, I don't know when this airs, but I think people are like, OK, wait a second, you know, like, I want some calm. I want to adult in the room. And I think really we're in a moment where at this moment, I think it's not about who did what, who brought this here, who didn't do who what.

Let's like pull it together. Let's move forward. We can all I think we can all pick everybody apart. You know, I just tweeted something about being on Delta and asking the flight attendants and somebody said, oh, that's easy for you to do. You flew private.

I'm like, read the tweet board. Don't take me.

I think we all want to criticize. We all want to attack what we all want to judge. Do you think social media?

See, I think I think social media has given voice to people that previously didn't have a voice and they're always like, excuse me, shit disturbers, pot stirrers.

They've always been around, but now they've got an equal platform.

And sometimes it makes one feel like there's more divisiveness then than there is. I mean, I find particularly in an election cycle, I find that to be the case.

I think those of us who believe that we're not as divided as social media. Maybe the noose wants to let us believe need to put that narrative out there. We need to stand up. We need to say every day we're not as divided as some people want you to think. We need to we need to put our voices. My brother was saying to me the other day, he said, you know, the thing is, Bobby, which brother you have so many brothers.

I have so many brothers, literally can't keep track of my Christmas cards are a nightmare. I do. But that's true. Bobby. Funny.

No, Timothy was saying, you know, the thing is, is that moderation doesn't seem to have the same emotion as fear and hate. Of course. Of course. So how do we kind of take the emotion and put it into the people who are saying, who are reasonable, who are calm, who are.

Well, that'll never happen in the media because here we are. No, how about how about compassion sells? How about calm sells? How about let's we're in this.

I want you to walk into the networks.

I just saw the network the last day sells. You know, we do a show about moderation.

They'll be falling all over themselves for that. Are you being facetious?

I'm being facetious that because I say that when I'm on the air, I've been on the air every morning for the last ten days.

And Maria Shriver, they're going to say yes to you right there because. Yeah, yeah, they are. And then they're going to walk out. You're walking to she is out of her mind.

That's a great I don't care.

I'm used to that. So I think you can use this platform, right, to put people up who have emotion in their moderation.

It's not even in their moderation. I have tremendous passion towards compassion. I have tremendous passion about calm. I have tremendous passion about the issues that I'm focused on. And I have tremendous passion around, you know, the issue of compassion towards our neighbors. I think that's, you know, as important as the people who are spewing hate and anger and division.

I have just as much fervor and just as much emotion around that as someone else could have around screaming at me.

Because but you're also one of the most articulate people I've ever met, and you're able to synthesize your thoughts in a way that most people aren't around in in an area that is hard to articulate. I mean, anybody can be angry. It's really easy. Anybody can be.

But you know what I've learned? I've learned that the people who are angry and really judgmental and they spew it out, as I say to my kids, imagine what they're doing to themselves. Yeah, true. And that's something I learned very late in life, that people who are doing that out, what they've got going on inside.

Oh, my God. So I when someone like snaps like that, I'm like, wow, I'm really sorry that that voice is attacking you first and it's coming back out here second. But like, you know, I hope you kind of take a deep breath and, like, be a little bit more compassionate to yourself because that's in fact, what will heal the world. Actually.

Hold the thought. We'll be right back. Hello there, I'm Rory Scovel, I'm a comedian, I'm an actor, but most importantly, I'm a dad. And I'll tell you what, as a father, it is my sworn duty to tell you about my new show with Team Coco called Dads, the podcast.

On each episode, me and my co-host, Ruthie Wyatt, are joined by a hilarious guest to talk about the mysteries of fatherhood and parenting, people like David Cross, Conan O'Brien, Sabrina Gelis and Roy Wood Jr.. Even if you're not a dad or a parent, I think you're really going to like this show. So please check us out. Find Dads the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Don't miss it. Hey, everybody, Conan O'Brien here to let you know about Team Koko's virtual comedy show hosted by my good friend, the very funny comedian Moses Storm.

Moses Storeman friend streams every other Thursday on Team Koko's YouTube twitch and Facebook pages. Past guests have been Chris Read, Joakim Booster, Rachel Bloom, bestselling Kal Penn, Ron Finches, Angela Johnston and so many more. It's really a fantastic comedy show, Jampacked, featuring some of my favorite people, and I'd like you to check it out. If you get a chance. Follow Team Coco live on Instagram for the latest show dates and guest lineups. One of the many things I admire about you and love about you is your your self curiosity in terms of growth is sort of, you know, insatiable.

Were you always someone who was on a path to learn more about themselves or because when I was young, I didn't give one shit about learning about anything about myself.

I just like was out there in the world. And eventually the world beat you up and you learned some lessons. Then you look inward and you go, I better figure it out.

Did you did you have that or you always the world. I've had moments where, like getting the white clean out of you and then you have to, like, dig a little deeper, right? Yeah.

And but I've always been incredibly curious, which is why journalism was so great for me. And I've always been curious about the world, about I always felt that I saw things perhaps that other people didn't see. So what I would say, do you see this? You did see that people go now. What are you talking about? Said, Hmm. And so I I've always led with my curiosity about other people, about myself. I've always wondered, like being in a large family, a large political public family, where did I fit?

I felt different in many ways. So how do I use that?

How did you where did you where did you feel like you felt growing up in your face?

I felt like I was the only girl. So I had all brothers. I had a very tough mother.

I know you're I, I my favorite story of your mothers is so.

So Eunice was how old do you think was was Eunice the day that she asked me to put her in the back of a bicycle built for two and go on a race probably 80 late 70s or 80s.

I think she was eighty something. Yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, it was a race for your brother.

Best buddies, my brother Anthony for Anthony S. and Anthony. So many Shriver and they all all these boys.

Anthony runs best buddies, Timmy runs Special Olympics and also Cassol, which is the largest movement for social emotional learning in our public schools. Mark runs Save the Children, which is doing extraordinary work. And Bob started Red with Boto and one which has done such incredible work with the AIDS epidemic globally, which I often think of that epidemic when we're in this epidemic.

Me and my brothers started a flag football league.

Yeah, you play really good. And it was really it was. It's changed the world. Yeah.

So so your wonderful mother, who is not a physically big woman now, she's very thin.

You occupied a lot of space with her energy.

Yes, but her body. Gabey. Yes. And she's like, I can't do a Eunice Shriver impersonation. I wish I could. If I if I could, would you would you would mind if I did it. But you can't. All right. I won't.

And she but she insists you're an actor, actually.

Thank you. Thank you. I love the way that Maria look like she just discovered. That was amazing. Did I just say I just remembered. I don't think of you, but don't worry. You're not alone.

I know, but I don't I think of you. You know, I always tell people that I. I think of you as being super smart. Thank you. Super well read. Super opinionated on so many different fronts, super wise. And so I when I think of you, I don't think of you first and foremost as an actor. I think of you first and foremost as a human being. Oh, thank you. That I think of you as a dad and as a husband, as a advocate for sobriety in the world, as an advocate for honesty in the world.

I think of you as someone who tries a lot of different things, puts themselves out there in spaces that you make up. Actually, I think of you as a writer and I think of you as an actor, but I don't. And I also don't like to lead with anybody with their profession. Right. I like to know who they are before I know what they do. You're great and thank you for that.

You're one of the things I also love. It was great is the way it went, you know, navigating kids. And you sit your kids friends down. Yeah. Unlike any parent I ever saw, I thought it was awesome and and you would just make them look you in the eye and talk about who they were. Yeah, and I think we're very much alike in that way that I mean, I know everything that that group of kids is doing today.

I literally know the kids are all friends and they have a kind of a larger group of friends, all of whom have their own identities. And then they have a collective identity. They have their own fears and their own challenges.

And I think to me, that's what's always interesting about a person, is their fears, their challenges, their view of themselves, their lack of their view of themselves. I'm always super interested.

You have a great every night, every Sunday, family dinner, family dinner.

The boys come all the time, boys.

Actually, I got to tell you, there is a I know you don't come or your wife, but you're always in a different city.

I know, but but when I do come, I love it. But my boys are there all the time and wait. It's family dinner. But that's they're not with my family.

With you. Yeah, they're with me. And they're really great because they always text ahead and say we're coming. Just wanted to make sure you know, which is great because most of the time I don't know. And I'm just pulling in chairs and all that sort of stuff. But I think that that that started with this kind of collective idea that people want to sit around a table for sure, want to be invited in. They want comes back to tradition.

They want a tradition, even if they can complain that I have too much food or not the right food or I have one kid that says, you invite people to this table, you don't even know that well. And I go, that's the point. And I have to thank my parents for that, because they invited people from all walks of life to our larger tables. So we would come to our house and there'd be, you know, a member of the cabinet sitting next to a Special Olympics athlete.

Right. Sitting next to an astronaut, sitting next to a religious leader, sitting next to a civil rights leader. That's how I grew up. And so I've tried to kind of emulate that a little bit at my own table. I've tried to have a lot of young people at the table, but people that they could learn from, people who had different points of view. And but I learned that from my parents.

I've had more good conversations, more great conversation sat at that table probably than probably than any ours and great Mexican.

I mean, Rob always complains that he has only one kind of food in my house. So when you come over, I only want to serve Mexican. So your storyline works.

I know we need to keep that going. Although, you know, it's not true. It's like a three story line.

So I try to make it true for you.

Listen, I never let the facts get in the way of the story ever. We have to change that. We need the facts now. No, no, no. We just you're doing a podcast. It needs to be based on facts.

Does it? Does it, though? It's you are. So you get to do what? I don't know what it is.

I mean, I'm just finding my way through it. No, but I've had so much. You must have an intention with this podcast. I do. What is it I do.

I have an NC. Oh, here we go. Jessie, I'm so happy for you listening because now you're all getting a little bit of a sense of what it means to be really close friends with Maria because she's turning the beams on me right now.

Those big blue eyes like like like lasering at me and she's asking me my intention. And now I'm getting a lot of flop sweat because you want to be you know, you want to be right or at least have a good, articulate answer. And I don't know. I do. I have one.

What is it? You know, it's it's for people to be able to take an hour.

Forty eight minutes. Where the hell they these conversations are and kind of just take a deep breath and have some fun and levity and thoughtfulness and escape. For for that moment, it will take different it'll be different flavors. Each episode is a different flavor, right.

But overall, it hopefully it's I have people in your your chair like you who either people have never heard of and like, holy crap, that was great.

I didn't know anything about that or it's people they know really, really well and they're seeing a side of them that they've never seen before.

What side of me do you want people to see that they haven't seen before? Oh, my gosh.

Well, I mean, I have so many. There's part of it. We're getting that Maria Shriver laugh. You're always I mean, you're like you're you're a substantive woman.

I did more serious because that's that that isn't really right. Because you're fun and you like to have fun. You're vivacious.

But look at you. Look at you.

I was always there, like, shocked that I laugh. Laugh. Yeah. I don't know why that is. People like are like, oh my God, I didn't realize that you were funny or you like to have fun. And I'm like, wow. And you have to do a better job of that.

And you're a great audience like you love. I love watching you watch people tell stories and entertaining. You're so excited. Yeah.

Like when your kids are talking or so he's telling a story. You're just you're like you look like you're like 16 and like a Beatles concert. Like you say, it's it's it's really, really fun.

You're a very good skier.

I'm really good skier. Thank you.

Although you're like one or two runs and then you kind of like true. Is that not true. That's not true. Real. And it's I'm not a thirty to four thirty skier like I used to be when I was younger. Now I'm like, you know, nine thirty ten. One thirty one bunch. Done. You like to travel. Yeah I like to travel. I love adventures. I love all kinds of adventures, big and small.

I, I'm an extrovert and an introvert. We relate. Yeah. I really relate to you on that, you know, with lots of people.

And I also like I've come, which is really fascinating to me. I've come to really enjoy my own company and my aloneness.

And because I my guess is you've known through your life you've not had a ton of that.

How about nine? How about none? How about none? And that's a big I was saying to my brother again the other day, like, wow, there's this big whole storyline that nobody tells you that your own company is great and that you can enjoy yourself and that being alone has this negative connotation and yet being alone can be so beautiful and fulfilling. And I feel, you know, when somebody says, like, you know, usually I'll go, people go, oh, you're all alone.

I'm so sorry. And I'm like, don't feel sorry for me.

I'm really kind of I feel in the greatest moment in my life in a way I feel like I have for healthy, good children that I raised along with their dad. I feel like I get along with each of them and I know them as a unit and also individually. I have four great brothers. I have friends like you guys that I can call in the middle of the night. My work brings me meaning and purpose. So if I walk into a room alone, don't feel bad that I'm alone, you know, come over and talk to me about what my life is like.

Not like you did you, because I love being alone.

I've always loved being alone, but I've always gone to restaurants alone that I don't do perfectly happy. Now I'm perfectly happy to do it.

I go to my Starbucks alone, but I don't go and sit down and eat in a restaurant alone. Why not? I don't know. That's one of those things. You know, somebody asked me the other day, what scares you? I think maybe like going into a nice restaurant for dinner by myself would probably be a real growth move for me.

OK, we're going I'm I'm going to hold you to that. No, I think it's so great. It is. Yes. Mostly it's lunch, I have to say. OK, lunch.

I can do you can do lunch alone. I can do coffee alone in the morning. I can go in and grab a salad and sit down. But you probably have your phone.

Yes, but before phones I would have something to read. But yes. Yeah. I mean I'm not yes. I'm reading the paper.

I'm reading a book for sure. Yeah.

But I think it's great.

I think it's great to you know, I think those I think more people talk about the benefits of spending time, monastic time, time alone, time in retreats that I think it demystifies that a didn't you do a retreat where you do it?

I do know I could do that. I didn't do a silent retreat, although several of my brothers have done that.

But I have not done that. I could I don't I don't know if I could do that. I wasn't invited to do that. I once did.

I was playing a character that couldn't speak and couldn't hear in Stephen King's The Stand. So I didn't speak for. A day, but it was on a set, so that was a really hard part, you know, having to communicate with people and not speak. And that was it was a nightmare, just a lot different than.

But you probably learned something inhabiting the shoes of someone else's life. I did very much so. That's the great thing about being an actor. You get to inhabit other kinds of lives in other professions and other experiences.

And, you know, to learn like I like to say my knowledge, it truly is a mile wide, but an inch deep like I can face. Not true. Oh, it is true. No, it's not.

Oh, for sure it's not. Your sports knowledge is more than an inch deep, is it? Yeah. Really? Yeah, it is. You shouldn't always express it on Twitter, but you have sports knowledge. You have a lot of knowledge about sobriety. You have a lot of knowledge about addiction and are a lot of knowledge about acting. You have a lot of knowledge about Hollywood. Otherwise you wouldn't be doing that One-Man Show or you wouldn't have written that book.

That's true. Yes, you guessed now.

But that's that's about the subject that I love the most. Me, me and more. Me books about me, shows about me, podcasts about me and my guess.

Oh, gee, I'm not even going to help you here. You're not going to just get it's all I get to repeat it when I get home.

You can't believe what Rob said, what he said on his podcast. The subject is him. And he's like, yeah, that's that's not going to come as a shock to anybody. Yeah. The Hello. Do you know me? I know you know you can work on that now.

What should I work on. What else should I work on it being less about you. That ship has sailed. No, no, your change every day you have the chance to become, you know, different every day, all the time. So like you could say, like, OK, now for the next year, you can like, say, like, I'm going to make it about somebody other than myself. What does that look like?

Yeah, and it doesn't count if it's your kids, right? It could be Cheryl. Could be Cheryl. Could be Cheryl, my lovely wife.

I have another question for you.

And it is this OK, do you prepare questions for me? No. No, I don't.

I feel like I don't want to talk to people. I like to have it be free flowing and get it, you know, I mean, it's just what I'm going through in my house with my kids, the stages of having kids. Right. The job hunt stage, like the it's the it's the stage immediately after empty nest where they're out and they're like navigating, getting jobs.

And how has that been for you? I know you still have Christophers right about to graduate.

I find that there is all of these different phases to parented. Right. There's the emptiness is when they go to college. Right. And that's a transition more for the parent, the kid. I think that the transition is big for kids when they get out of college. Right. Because it's that period where everything's kind of been organized for you all the way through. Yes.

I made a little movie about it. It was called Saying Elmo's Fire, but that's about me.

And that was a long time ago. And how about, wow, Maria Shriver with a shade that we can. That's the good news is we can watch it again. That's right.

But is that it's that moment where most college people don't.

Yeah, I think people, you know, post college I found has been scary for each of my kids. And it's been bumpy. Yeah. For each of my kids. Because I think and I think I anticipate.

Which of your beautiful kids do you think navigated at the best or whatever?

Answer that? Uh, no, not even that. And that's fairly innocuous.

No, because I think they each navigated it in their own way. And I think their 20s are about navigating everything right in their own way.

And I think it's more for the parent to kind of be there, but be back, step in when needed to step back and let kids find out for you. It's hard for me to say. It's hard for me.

My parents, like, stepped all the way out. They did know. Oh, yeah. They didn't really anything, at least in my situation. But I also was like, I want to do it.

Well, they were on they weren't like, like not paving the road, but they weren't like they had done that throughout my life with their who they were and the way they live their lives. But I wanted to do something different than what they were doing. So I wanted to go into journalism, which was not their space or place. So and it was really important to me that I navigate my own way because I wanted to kind of, as best you could say, it is earn my way.

Right. I wanted to go into this profession that I had deemed right for me, away from politics, away from Washington, and kind of find my own way and work my way up. So there wasn't there not going to help me get a sound job in Baltimore? Right. You know, that's not over there. And I'm really glad actually that they didn't because I feel like and I try to say this to my kids, you know, it's better for you to find your way and do this yourself, because if your dad and I did a good job with, we've hopefully taught you some grit.

We've taught you a work ethic.

We've paved away way. How do you teach your work ethic? Because I think you learn does you model it, you model, model it, you model it and you model my parents every single day. They got up, they went to church and they went to work every day. Every day they got up. They went to church, they went to work. They both had briefcases and they were out the door and they worked and they worked to the day they died, both of them.

And they worked. And they and they were interested in people who work. And they that was their life and that's what they respected. So just by osmosis, I got the point. I knew that these were two people who weren't going to be down. If I sat on the couch, they weren't going to be OK if I didn't get up, make a difference, find a cause, go to work, make my own way. That's awesome.

And and I knew that. I knew it.

You know, I think people are also born with a work ethic or I think people, you know, look at the vast majority of people have to work, have to, you know, make money, have to pay the rent, have to pay their bills. And so I think. I have to say, I don't understand people without a work ethic. I don't either. Yeah. And I really don't find it attractive 100 percent, as my mother would always say.

I don't find that attractive.

That was her. That was her shade. That was that was it.

I don't find that attractive at all. My sense is she probably had other ones. Oh yeah.

She know. She would always say to me, I don't wanna hear one yip out of you. Oh, I love it. And yet I don't want to hear one yip out of you ever. I don't want I don't want to hear one yet about anything, ever about anything, ever.

Anything ever.

That was part of the fresia. I always her thing. I don't want to hear one yet out of you about anything ever. I just do your work and get going and never throw down.

But I mean I have I don't hear you part of you ever.

And she, you know, my mother was you know, she'd put in our breakfast, like in our dining room, she'd put up pictures and she'd taped them to the wall of children in Biafra, starving, so that when we had dinner, we were looking up at these pictures with the flies in the eyes, even those pictures, because and then she'd put in the middle of the table a piggy bank and say, we're not eating tonight so we can send money to Biafra.

We're not eating tonight. So and so her thing was, you know, like I don't want to hear what jittery you look up on the wall. I don't want to hear one Yifat out of you. Look at what's going on, you know, five miles from you. I don't want to hear one yip out of you. And and my parents were really also, you know, they sent me to live in Africa for two summers by myself. They sent me to do a lot of things that I think most responsible parents would be stunned at today, but so that I wouldn't they wouldn't hurry up out of me later.

But it just talking about your dad made me think of do you have a vivid memory of when he was asked to run for vice president?

Yeah, I was in Senegal, actually, in Africa so that nobody could hear me up.

So nobody could hear any. No Yepes coming from Senegal. So and I remember the embassy there came to tell me that that's what had happened and that they felt that I should leave. And so I I left, actually, and came back. And then they had a kind of a little mini convention. And that's when I really discovered journalism. And because I ended up on the campaign plane and I ended up. So how old were you back? I was sixteen and I ended up sitting in the back with the journalists and I and it was there that I discovered.

Wait a second. First of all, these people on the back are having more fun than the people on the front are like super serious.

And the people in the back are controlling what the people in the front say. In a way, they're controlling what the vast majority of people think about the people in the front. So I'm like, I'm going with the people and the back. And it was then and there that I decided I wanted to be in the back of the plane, the back of the bus, not in the front.

I never knew that.

Yeah, that's how I came up with my journalism thing. And there was only one woman in the back of the plane, which was Casy Macan, and she was a journalist. I was used to being around all men. I was used to I was still very much a boys club. I was a boys club and it was a boys club in the back of the plane. But I grew up in a boys club.

So I fit in. I fit in, I got it. I understood it. And so even when I went to work in Philadelphia, the local station was a boys club. I was like, I, I get this. I have all I had a lot of male cousins, I had all brothers.

We have a lot of people that listen to the podcast who are women, young men, women of all ages.

What's the I know it's hard to distill it down to one thing, but what are your big takeaways from making it in a boys club?

Well, I say kind of making it in the world is a bigger thing.

And I think, you know, what I try to see got to be you've got to have a strong work ethic. You have to have grit. You have to have determination. You have to have a vision that's larger than yourself. You have to know that what you need is actually inside of you. And you have to keep getting up. You just have to keep getting up. You have to keep getting up. And I think that's something I learned.

I watched my parents keep getting up and I watched them both have missions that were way larger than themselves. Their mission was never like to get a fancy car to you know, I never heard about that part of like, I want to make a lot of money. I want to do this. I want to do this. You know, their mission was to change the world, change the world, change the world. What are we going to do?

What are you doing? How are you doing it? And my parents asked it of people who were eight, nine, ten, eleven.

That was that's got to be that's got to be a rough visit to the Shrivers when you're eight. Oh, you just want to play Legos. You got Sargent Shriver up your grill.

My mother had you on volunteering in her camp who are nine and ten and eleven. And my friends used to always say, I don't want to come over to your. Because it looks like, you know, I just signed up for Special Olympics and I was like, you know, it was just but I think, you know, I daddy, I just was at the Shrivers and I decided I want to go to Senegal.

Yeah. I had a friend who went with me to Tunisia and she left in forty eight hours. She's like, I'm out. And now she's like, I think your mother never forgave me for that. I'm like, yeah, you're probably right.

But, you know, my mother really liked people who were tough. She really liked that her brothers were tough, her dad was tough, her mother was tough in her own way, strong, you know, perseverance.

So she was into people who were who didn't have a yepp come out of them.

She was. How have you not used that as a title for a book? Yeah, I do. I hear you, Patti. Yes.

It's so good. Is it. Yeah. Oh, it's so good. Yeah.

It's you know, probably in other words like here's OK, I'll be a publisher for a minute. What do you do that book.

And it's a it's a mother's it's a mother's mother's daughter's Mother's Day book.

But that's the title on her yet. But well people would think that's like abusive. That's the fun of it. Yeah, it's the fun of it. Yeah. I don't I have never said that. I don't think to my children, I don't want to hear Yip out of you ever.

I don't think what it I thought it. Sure.

But what did your dad ever have any phrases that were not like that.

Because he also knew there shouldn't be a part of him either.

Yeah. We'll be right back after this. Hey, everybody.

Conan O'Brien here to talk to you about something that's of crucial importance right now in America.

That's right, merchandise of all the things happening right now, nothing's more important than what we call Mirch. Team Coco dotcom slash shop is our hub for everything merch related.

I can feel my soul leaving my body. We have new Team Coco masks. Oh, my God. Well, sure. Yeah. We're taking taking every advantage of the covid crisis by making some Team Coco masks. No idea if they're medically sound as well as a variety of T-shirts, phone cases, coffee mugs and tumblers from our podcasts, including our summer sports series. I'm sorry, this is not the time in America. On top of all that, we did a special capsule collection with Jordan Slansky and most recently added a new limited edition world's worst assistant collection made for our very own Seona Mozartian.

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Get your priorities straight. Hi, I'm Chelsea Devadas, host of Celebrity Book Club, a new podcast from Stitcher. Back in February, I was reading Jessica Simpson's memoir and my mind was being blown and I started posting a recap of it on Instagram. Since then, I have been recapping all my favorite celebrity book club memoirs. Look, I know it's not like the best genre of literature, but it is my favorite genre of all time and I will keep reading more because I'm in love with them.

Each episode of this book club explores the power of women telling their messy, sometimes ugly, mostly empowering stories in their own words. This thing has been saving me during this time. It's given me a place to put my mind that is still empowering and gossipy and juicy, but ultimately about women coming together and sharing their fucked up truths. And it's making me feel stronger. So come join me. Come get in the book club and let's talk some shit.

Celebrity Book Club is out now. Listen in, Stitcher, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. When you brought Arnold home, yeah, that was like I must have gone over, well, that was everybody thought it was like kind of like that's just kind of a joke, right? That's just kind of like just for the weekend or that's just for like right now or you're just having a phase.

And so I think, you know, because obviously he was so different from, you know, what my family had experienced and what they knew. And it was a real different. There were two different worlds going out there.

You know what to make of them. No, but I'm sure all right, that he does. You know, he probably like people not knowing what to make of him. And but I think, you know, eventually my parents came to really love him and and they didn't hear a peep out of him. And, you know, what they heard out of him was, this is my vision. These are my dreams. This is what I want to do.

And as I said, my parents weren't interested in people's complaints or that's for sure. But I think they would have kept with the feeling like that we started talking about there are so many good people out there. There's so many people doing incredible things. That's who they surrounded themselves with. I mean, my mother brought Mother Teresa to the United States and honored her with an award. She brought her first visit. My parents took us to hang out with Dorothy Day and work in soup kitchens.

Daniel Berrigan, the Berrigan brothers, they were at our table. They were interested in those kinds of people. Right. So somebody who would be, oh, you know, complaining or yipping wouldn't be at the table. And if they wanted to, they would get pretty clearly that they shouldn't like. Yep. Now we're going to be happy.

Now we're going to is going to be a thing. No, it is. Oh, it's a thing I don't want. I'm going to use it tonight. It's no this is so good.

I don't know where I'm going to use it, but I know I'm going to now listen to it. When I told it to my therapist, he was like, I'm so sorry.

I know. I know. I know. I was like, was that bad? Was that bad? He goes, Oh my God, yes. I'm like, oh, OK.

Actually, that was actually good for me to hear. Actually, that's, you know, that it's OK to have needs. And I discovered that in my late 50s.

Isn't it amazing when you go to therapy, as we all have and I'm a big guy. Should should I. Yeah, no, I think it's a great thing. And you tell them something about your childhood or something that you grew up with as the only thing you've ever known. Yeah. And they go, oh, I'm so sorry.

Oh so it was it was. That's bad.

It's not good that my dad would pull over in the middle of a cornfield and say, get out of the car, drive away. That's like that's not.

That's a good thing, you know, if I was crying, sorry, dad, if you're listening, so it goes, payback's a bitch kidding. Kidding.

I think we should all ask our parents this kind of thing, because when I do and it's not easy, the answers are mind blowing like I just want in passing. He's a huge Izadi now, but he's always been a huge tennis player, his whole high school, college, all of it. And I said, what did your parents think of your tennis career? And they said, oh, they never saw me play.

So I'm sorry. What? Yeah. So now they they never came to a game he played ever. Yeah.

So let that sink in a minute, you know, and that's kind of I think the norm for that generation, you know. And but think about that, you know, and and put that in juxtaposition to how you went to your kids things every game.

So every game you have to understand the difference that that makes in a person's life experience, in a person's sense of themselves and a person, you know, how they feel about themselves and therefore how they parent 100 percent. Right.

You know, you have it brings I think you have to have some empathy when you realize, like, I think so often about how my mother grew up in a family of all boys when they never thought women could become anything. And here was my mother, who was so smart and who could have been anything and was never acknowledged as such in her family and her grit and her determination and her fire and her rage just propelled her. But she never got like what her brothers got from her parents.

Right. And so, like, so when she was tough on me, now I can look at that and say, like, wow, because she was tough on herself and her parents were tough on her.

And so when I think, like, wow, she didn't put a blanket over me or bring me hot tea, well, nobody did that to her. So how could she have done that to me?

And, you know, I remember like when I said to my mother, like, I'm going to touch you, you know, she said, don't touch me. She's in her 80s. I'm like, no, I'm going to you're now, you know, in the bed and I'm in charge.

So I'm going to touch you and I'm going to tell you that I love you and I'm going to mother you in a way that you were never mothered, because I know how hard that must have been and is. And I want you to have that experience. So it's OK. And I start with their fingers. And I worked my hand up.

But, you know, she taught and I wasn't sure how.

She just stayed still. She was in her bed and she was older. But imagine going through your whole life not having nobody like you couldn't have a. Yep. Out of you about anything. Right, nobody's like wrapping her in a blanket, nobody's nurturing her, nobody's even saying to her, I see you and I see what you want to do and I'm going to help you or show up for you, so. What's needed for that, you know, the walls that have to come up there and you're a woman and in a man's world and in a man's family, and so I have incredible empathy for her and what she went through and also my own kind of curiosity about myself as like I see that I want to be different from that.

I want to honor that. But I want to put a blanket on my kids. I want to bring the T 10 kids. And and but I want to break that cycle. And I think we're all here to break some cycle of sorts. Right. For sure. But and that means kind of also thinking about like what was that like for your dad that nobody came?

What was that like? Because that's still in him 100 percent.

Yeah, I find that there's there's nothing that gives you better insight to your parents than being a parent of your own. And you look at your 12 year old or whatever age they are at the time, and and you remember yourself at that time and then the decisions your parents made for and about you.

Yeah. And you you look at everything through that prism and it is mind blowing. Yeah. Mind blowing. It is. And you have to think about, you know, the generation that people grew up in. Yes.

What it was like for that specific gender at that time.

And I try to say to my daughters, particularly all the time, you know, when we were watching the debates with the women candidates and like I just want you to understand, this is like mind blowing.

This is my you're looking at this and maybe it's not like like for me, this is mind blowing, really. It's mind blowing. And if your grandmother could be here, she would be blown away. So change happens quickly. We may not realize it when we're kind of in it. But, you know, people thought. My mother, in her own way, fought to make it possible that a Hillary Clinton or Elizabeth Warren or Amy Klobuchar because women who did well made it possible for other women to do well.

And certainly when I started in journalism and I look at women today who get five months maternity leave and I got two weeks, I say to myself, you know, like, it's important that I did that well so that other women could come behind me and get five months. I do know what I mean. Well, that's been under way in some way. And I think if we see it that way, that we're all here to pave the way so that someone else can be on that debate stage, someone else can, you know, do whatever it is they're doing.

It makes your life more than about you, you know, because, like, really, why are you here?

I don't know why I'm here, but you're not here just to be about you.

Well, if I have a reason, it's that. What to make it more about me.

Know you're here to maybe break the cycle in your own family. You're here to father in a different way.

You know, I also say to my kids, I'm so excited about what I see happening with men that the men of like my our son's generation are so different, completely different partners.

Yeah. True fathers. I'm optimistic about it.

I have two boys. I'm optimistic. And you've got, you know, three, two boys. Two boys. Yeah, I have two boys and I have two girls.

But I say all the time to both of them how how your future is is going to depend on all these genders, how you treat people who identify, you know, as non gender. You get how it's going to how you're going to be, you know, to my daughters how you're going to treat the men in your life.

Yeah, right. Men, how are you going to treat the women in your life? And I always say to my boys, you know, like I was saying the other day, when I walk out the door and they don't hold the door for me, I just stand there. Wait.

Oh, that's the other thing. That's a great thing. I'm sorry I interrupted that when you were a little girl you had when your parents came into the room. You to stand up.

Yeah, right. Yeah. How great is a little girl all the way till they died. Girl So you're watching TV. You're watching The Bachelor.

Oh, I think I make your boy stand up when I walk in the room for sure. And they do by the way. And they do.

My boys stand up.

What I stand up when you walk in the door every time I'm a horrible parent.

And by the way, all my boys friends stand up when I walk in the room. All of them, because if they go out, I go like this to Harrison now up and everybody gets up.

I mean, it's funny. It makes me I'm so inadequate. I'm so inadequate as they they it's really true.

And I mean this I'm I'm half joking and but it's like you occupy a very specific like place in my boys hearts. I mean, it's like they they like.

No, like you are you are it. I tweeted or not tweeted, I commented on your son's Instagram yesterday because he was like showing some picture. I'm like, come on, get out. We need help down in Los Angeles, in the world, the world's falling apart. You can't be up there on the beach showing these images and they hope that he'll do it.

What he'll do is still up there, though, I think. Yeah.

OK, so I have one last thing to do before we go. So I have you remember the Proost questionnaire in Vanity Fair at the last.

Yes. Yes. So you do have questions, but you ask them to everyone. I do this. I do this at the end.

It's Rapid Fire, I call it I call it the low down because it's the happiest phrase ever. So I see.

But it's not cute. I've grown up with that hackie, low hanging fruit lazy line.

The low fruit. Yeah.

I mean, how many like the low down is like really we up all night trying to think of that. I'm up with this. I are your producers.

No, I came up with I want to take back because you know words words can only hurt you if you don't take them back. And I'm not letting the the low down hurt me anymore. I'm take I'm taking ownership of that word now.

How did it hurt you. Because Taqi why it's hackey. Stupid.

OK, it's make fun of my name and it's not funny. OK, go way. I'm getting there.

I'm getting the like I'm not having it. Maria Shriver. Look right now it's Kobe or MJ.

Well, Kobe probably right now, right, although I interviewed both of them and I thought MJ was incredible at Kobe's celebration.

Amazing. Yeah, beautiful. I was so I was so honored to be at that. I was so I went with Christopher and which is my youngest son and I think is really good for him to see a man like that cry about his relationship with another man.

And I and I think for me, also Kobe's effect on the culture, certainly as a woman, in terms of being a girl, dad is huge. And in terms of being a professional male athlete who's interested in validating women athletes, no one like him.

So that's why I would go like that. I can't. I can't. I cannot argue with that.

See, I did wonder, like what I know who MJ was. Well, I figured if I led with Kobe, you would you would put it together. And I just say, what do you feel about MJ? Could be Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson.

You don't know MJ, but you you're you're a smart woman, OK? You figured it out. Yeah.

It's like MJ does all the clothes at Michigan. Oh, there's another MJ that I didn't know about. That's MJ thing. Maybe you didn't know about that.

Rolling Stones or the Beatles. That's just an easy one. Probably the Beatles too. Always had a crush on Paul McCartney. But know what? I have met him a couple of times. Yeah, great. Do you live up to the billing? Yeah. And I think great dad. Yeah. Great Dad. A great husband. Once again, bigger than the Beatles, but. I love that he's kind of kept going, I love really everything about Paul McCartney.

Oh, here's a good one. Your phone's ringing.

Yeah, it's my it's my manager. My manager, I'm a very important person, I've got a manager. It's about you. Do you have a hall pass? Do you like it like a hall pass?

No, I know what those are and stuff like that, but I now know now make sure you have a hall pass now.

But I'm not in a thing, so there's no hall pass to have. Right. So that's true. Yeah.

So Cheryl, Cheryl, I know all about, you know, see you and my wife are so close to Cheryl, she'll have a hall pass that I don't know.

I don't feel comfortable here. This is the whole point. Oh, it is OK. I don't know. That's not true.

She looked away. I don't know. Studier of body language. Maria, you know, my wife's all passed. I doubt I will give it up on this podcast.

I will leave the boat. I won't. I Jesus.

I don't have one. You don't have one? No. OK, let's go to another question.

I'm very much interested in talking about hall passes.

Is there any of these questions have anything to do with other than sex? They're all sex. Well, mostly I like sex. Yeah, OK. Do you have any do you remember you write amazing books.

How many books of you right now. Seven. She's a seven and eight coming up now. I don't want to hear you. Yeah.

I don't wanna hear a yip out if you ever with big ever, ever, ever, ever ever will be in the fight.

Even after I've gone and I'm in heaven, I still don't want to hear it. Yeah. Which is why you need to write the book.

OK, I'll think about it. Do you remember what's the worst review you've ever gotten, but you've probably never got it better.

No, I did, absolutely. When I was the anchor of the CBS Morning News, there was a big television critic called Tom Shales. Yeah. Oh, hello. Yeah. And he, like, eviscerated me. He's like, you know, like, look at our hair. Look at our teeth, look at her cheekbones. I mean, he just like, made a mess out of me in every way, shape and form. So I don't know.

Oh yeah. Now come on. Oh yeah. Of course he did. You can look I mean, Tom Shales, Tom Shales, he was brutal. He was really brutal. But who remembers such things?

Do you you know, the whole thing of people like, oh, I don't read reviews. You remember people like that? Actors, actresses, journalist. Oh, I don't, I don't, I don't read reviews. They make you feel like you're an idiot for reading them to ever come across that whole notion.

Yeah, but I don't believe. I don't. Thank you. Thank you. See, this is why we're friends, because we think exactly alike. It's complete hogwash. Yeah. Of course they read them and it hurts that I read reviews in the intermission of the play I'm doing. Oh that's that's about the play. I don't think that's good. I don't think that's something you should repeat.

Oh, this is easy. I know you're going to say funny, smart or hot. Pick one. About myself was about about about your dream person, funny, funny, yeah. Oh, I thought you were gone with smart, funny first.

Funny first. Funny first. Funny first. Wow. Yeah.

Threw me a key key. Funny key. Key critical.

Do you have a phrase that you overuse. I don't think you do. By the way, I know pretty well over you saying phrase.

Yeah I don't like.

What's your version of that. I want to hurry up out of you ever. I don't have it. Maybe I just start using that one. It's too late to your kids are yappin. Yeah I know your kids. They're yappers. Yeah.

Patrick told me last night when I came home. Don't walk in here unless you go up and take a shower and take your airport clothes off.

I was like, I think that this is my house, but so amazing. Well, that's the whole down.

That's that's the I mean, there's more. But I just I just feel like you don't have that. Like, who would you like to have dinner with. Some history of you. Boring ones. That's boring.

Did uh I mean, how can I do a couple more months. We got nothing but time here.

What is your most treasured possession? Oh, my letters from my kids. I thought we could say the letters from your family.

Now, for my kids, it's for my kids to me even over that insane like legal pad thing from JFK. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah.

Not even close. That's not even close.

I love your kids plenty. Yeah. But that JFK thing that's hanging in the living room is nuts.

Yeah. But it's like my kids, it's like they're talking to me. How about the letter that that Rose Kennedy wrote you about behaving, behaving better at the dentist. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about not wanting to hear yet that.

No kidding. My dearest Maria does come to my attention that you were sniveling after being at the dentist. We Kennedys do not was. Yeah. Well my also favorite thing about it is and as you know, we are known for our teeth.

That's right. It's unbelievable. Yes. I put that there right above the toilet. So everybody, when they flush, will look at it and read it and think about their teeth and not having a peep out of them when they come out. So it's my own way of saying we're not interested in Yepes here.

Yeah, that is the letter is you went to the dentist.

Yeah, apparently cried. Right. Your mother must have mentioned it. Yes. To her mom, Rose Kennedy. Right. And you get a perfectly immaculate yes. Type type type letter from Hyannis. Yes.

From my grandmother telling me that Kennedys don't cry, that my uncle who was president never had a yepp come out of him.

And he had as you know, he was in he was in poor health and never complained, never complained.

And we don't complain. And by the way, we're known for having beautiful teeth. So and if you do complain, it'll have an impact on your siblings. So we don't want to do that anymore.

Am I clear? Had written, though, at the right hand side, typed in hand side, yes, as a child of Jesus, end of story. I got it. I got the memo.

I mean, yeah, we'll end with this one.

What is your what is your current state of mind? Awesome. I agree. Also, I've known you a long time now. A long time. I don't think you've ever been in such like everything firing and also place.

Yeah. A good place. Really, truly good place and space. Good place and space.

Offering great stuff to people enjoying your life. Yeah. You're enjoying your independence. Yeah. I'm curious on the move. Yeah.

Not tethered to the past in any way. I wrote in my Sunday paper last week that I was sitting there and I looked around and I was like, wow, I'm actually really good. I'm OK, I'm good, my life is great.

Who would have thought? Because it's had like everybody times when it wasn't so great.

But I feel it's really great. I feel really blessed. Thank God, every day. You've been great to be here with us. We love you. Thank you for letting me come on your podcast.

Well, that was everything I thought it would be. It's too bad you guys can't be here to see how pretty she is, I'm always struck with, like everybody knows how smart and, you know, like substantive Maria is.

But she's like a beautiful woman.

And the great thing is she would like that. I said that like it's OK. It's all good. Thanks for listening. There's more fun to come with, literally with me on our next episode by. You have been listening to literally with Rob Lowe, produced and engineered by me, Devon Tory, Brian Executive, produced by Rob Lowe for low profile Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Stitcher. The supervising producer is Aaron Blair's talent producer, Jennifer Sanders.

Please write and review the show on Apple podcast and remember to subscribe on Apple podcast, Stitcher or wherever you get your pockets. Sky con Robin Meade from Sky High, Cry-Baby and from. God is pop and listeners, I'm Lacey Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scams. Scammers of all time want to know about fake heiresses. We've got them. What about career con men? We got them two guys that were wined and dined you and then steal all your coins.

Oh, yes. They're also represented and I'm very excited to share that scam. Goddess has joined the Team Coco network. So check out the show. I've got guests like Nicole Byer, Jameela Jamil, IRA Madison, the third. And I've even got a brand new episode where Conan O'Brien and I dig into the wolf of Wall Street. So join the congregation. Listen to Scam Goddess is wherever you get your back is. This has been 18 cocoa production in association with Sketcher.