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This episode is sponsored by Viking Viking offers an all new custom built ocean fleet designed to bring the traveler closer to the destination with and a state rooms and a short excursion included in every port, Viking by river and by sea. Learn more at Viking Cruises Dotcom. I'm Jace Lacob and you're listening to Masterpiece Studio, it's Reverend Will Davenports Birthday, and with a lively party of his friends and loved ones, he says goodbye to another year and we bid farewell to another season of Grantchester.

[00:00:36]

And this one's for me. I chose it myself, Martin looks very commanding, doesn't he? Very. Thank you. But before that, there's a mystery to be solved, one involving a missing woman and a body found on Jesus green and an unexpected turn of events, a nun of sorts, Shaquill will out of his voluntary celibacy, a few.

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You see, the more you resist your feelings, the more unhappy you become, I understand the obvious.

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I don't think I have a problem anymore and will ensure we look beyond the trauma of this shocking season and toast to their growing friendship in a lovely moment of bonding.

[00:01:26]

I don't know. I suppose what I'm trying to say, and they're not entirely coherent way, is that things are good, but perfect. The pretty good. You've had sex. You sly old series star Tom Brittny returns to the podcast to review the fifth season and provide his best impression of the just confirmed six seasons still on the way. And later, co-star Robson Green comes back to the podcast chair for his own look back at season five. And we are joined again this week with Grantchester star Tom Brittny, welcome.

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Hello. How are you doing? Surviving.

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We're all surviving. We're all surviving.

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The reveal in last week's episode about Vick's true nature came as a horrific shock, one that had me reeling as much as Will. How much about Vick? Did you know ahead of the start of filming this season? The producers, they hadn't told us everything, so we'd spoken about storyline's because the good thing is the producers sort of allow we go for dinner Mamluks and talk about storylines. Coming up, we come up with ideas and we had batted around this idea of this.

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It was in a different form originally when we spoke about it and we didn't know exactly where it was going and how it would be revealed because we didn't get the scripts until about a week or so before. So I had it.

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I had a hunch, but I didn't I didn't think that episode would be quite as hard hitting as it was. I guess just trying to be in denial about how hard they would go with it. And and they did. And it was brilliantly written by Daisy. Were you as horrified as Will was to learn the truth about this surrogate father? Yeah, I was. It was I guess it kind of feels all the same, sort of easy to act.

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It was hard to act. It was it was hard to act in the sense of it being takes you to a place that is uncomfortable to be. But it was easy to get to because of just how horrific the subject is. You know, and again, with those writing your acting scenes that do make you I mean, there were times when I broke down a lot more than I had to pull myself back slightly and went in a scene where I confront Vic, for instance.

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We did different variations of just how angry we would get and how close to actually maybe even killing him. It was a really, really tough episode to do. And also, Ross is such a lovely guy and we got along so well. And it was it was really good to work with him and go through that together. I mean, throughout this season, there is this rapport building between Will and Vick to the point that Will tells Vick and not Georgie about his failed proposal.

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To Ellie, how ultimately damaging is this revelation about Vick to Will? How far does this shake him?

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It destroys, I think, for a while is his very foundation of all of his core beliefs. Like we said at the beginning, he's still barely clutching on to this eternal optimism that working with Jordy and seeing horrific crimes he does is is testing this belief. And he's trying to hold on and trying to hold on. And throughout the series, it's just getting pushed. And there's that scene with with Vick in the boxing ring, I think is an episode for when he's talking about how cynical he's becoming and how he's starting to lose this hope.

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And then when this revelation about Vick comes out, it sends him truly off the rails because it just comes to think of what what is the point what is the point in working this hard? What is the point in believing this is the person that you trusted the most, turns out to be one of the most evil people you could ever make that. How do you how do you recover from that?

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I think we see that in his closing statement in Episode five, which is full of a fury that we've never seen from Will before God gave us Eden.

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He gave us perfection. And what did we do with him? We destroyed it. We send. And we grew prideful and vengeful and angry. We surrounded ourselves with snakes who only want the worst for us. And who do we blame for that? We blame God. How dare we? How do you go on from something like this, Will is such a do gooder, he believes in sort of the goodness within people make does this shatter your world view or sense of morality in a way that is not recoverable?

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I mean, obviously we see that with the help of Jodi and the people around them and, you know, separate issues just from Vick, that he does start to see the light a little bit and he starts to recover. But I'm interested to see how this is going to affect him moving forwards and whether in the next series, whether he's going to still have that that same hope. I think some of that sort of idealism has gone, which is sad.

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But I think we'll we'll find a way to work with it and still still hold on to what makes him the good person he is. And I think he's still going to find an optimism and even even recover from this.

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I mean, because he's been through he's been through the mill, seen his father killed himself because of him and he's now seen his next father figure become this. I mean, it's going to be tough for him. But I think with the people in the family and friends he has around him, I think he's going to do good.

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This week's episode begins with Will in white tie drunk crashing his mother's engagement party. It's a very different will than we've seen so far. He's entitled, aggressive, rude. He stubs out his cigarette and a bottle of champagne. What did you make of this side of his character?

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Well, just like we discussed this in the first episode, you see those little hints of his past that have been discussed in the previous series. But we haven't seen and you see him in Cambridge at the beginning, kind of flirting with temptation. Now he's lost the will to persevere with staying on the straight and narrow. There is no point to anything anymore. And he's completely indulging in how we used to be. And I think it's a fascinating thing.

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It was really, I guess, fun, fun to play to to see that, but also quite sad to see that, you know, what he does to himself, that he's just lost so much hope. He's not the strong put together Vicha that we've seen before. He's just a child. He's reverted completely to being a teenager again and his mother has the time off.

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And these guys, you know, have to take requests. Do you know any of the first domino? Yes. Yes. Fats Domino like me doesn't make no difference when they come off of it.

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This is not who you are with him.

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I mean, psychologically, it makes sense. I mean, he's lost another father figure in his life. He regresses to sort of a teenager state in a sort of active rebellion slash self-destruction. But it is this very self-destructive behavior. He then meets fallen nun Sister Grace, who was initially a suspect in Nora Martin's murder. She says, You look at me and you see a path you hope to never take a path away from God despite her iciness. It's as though she can see into his very soul.

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What does he make of Sister Grace and why is he so drawn to her?

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Well, the first sister, Grace in his head is everything that's wrong with religion. Little did he know that it's not what it appears to be at first. And also Will can be very quick to come to certain judgments in situations. You can also be very forgiving and see the human side of things. But if it tests or challenges his belief in something, it angers him a lot. And seeing religion the same in the last series when he saw the Mennonite family, the parents mistreat the family members, it it makes it very angry.

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And so he sees it as his disgrace. And then as I start to break the case down, he's frightened by her because once they discover that this isn't exactly what they think it is, she represents this this gray area that he's scared of going into. He looks at life being quite binary and good and evil, even if it's muddled at times. He does try and see it in this binary way, which is not how the world works. And Grace shows him that you don't have to set these boundaries so, so strongly that stop you from being a human being.

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And in doing that, she liberates and she shows him that you don't have to be this kind of staid, stress, tightly wound person. And this is trying to strive for this perfection that doesn't exist. You have to be human and we have flaws. And that scares well, because he thinks that he's so terribly flawed that it's going to destroy everything around it. He makes the very surprising decision to end his vow of celibacy, not with Ellie, but with Sister Grace.

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What did you make of the fact that these two fallen into bed together? And how does the encounter ultimately change? Will does it restore his foundering optimism? In a way?

[00:10:56]

I think it does. I think he was attracted to her always in a way that he didn't admit to himself in a way that he wasn't admitting to himself. But, Ellie, in the beginning and I think he had his tail between his legs and when he saw Grace, I think he was and wasn't expecting it to go that way. And he needed someone to guide him through it and he knew he needed that figure. Will needs that help, which he can't give himself.

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And Grace definitely does liberate him.

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And yeah, again, it's an interesting thing to see where this new liberated world is going to go. But I don't think he would have been had to do with anything. He cared about Ellie too much and she was very embarrassed and still has that fear of hurting someone if he really cared and loved about the grace was the one taking control and guiding him through that, which made it easier for him to get rid of that vow of celibacy.

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I know what it's like, the clothes you wear. How you live. It's a constant reminder that you're different, that you should be pure special. It's wrong to think like that and is profoundly arrogant.

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I feel like at this point he has finally accepted his humanity, the thing that he has sort of put himself above. Do you see it coming from arrogance or from something else? I think we will never believe that he's arrogant, but that maybe that is a denial thing, it's it's time someone gives a person the right to say that they know what's good for a person. You know, in the 50s, people looked at their local vicar to guide them and they looked to the Bible to guide them and stuff like that.

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But, you know, you can always argue what gives a person the right to sort of to do that at times. And I think that's what Grace is kind of saying is, again, will kind of can get confused in thinking as flawed as he thinks he is, that he's made this choice. And that's become a and therefore and he's following these these strict guidelines that it makes him a better person than what he used to be. But in doing that, there is there is a slight arrogance.

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Of course, there is a slight arrogance that that makes you a better person if you deny your own flaws and you try and get away from it. Doesn't it just means you're in denial, really?

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You said you were curious to see whether the sort of darkness of all of this carried over into the next series for me, I don't know that it will.

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I mean, he says no weeds have grown, death was not born. Do you think it's significant that the season ends on Will's birthday? Is it a new beginning, a new birth for Wil Davenport of sorts? Is this sort of a clean slate? No, I think I think you're right.

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In terms of me thinking that the dog is going to carry over. I don't think we're going to have the same darkness in him. I do think it's gone a lot. I think this has been liberating sexually and liberating in other ways of him getting out of these self-made shackles that he's put on himself. And and I do think yeah, I think it's yeah, it's lovely. That was such a lovely scene to to film, which a little a little tidbit of information here, a little behind the scenes thing.

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I lost my voice for three days to the point where I literally could not speak. So we filmed the end scene and I couldn't say a single word. So we had to reshoot it. And I was so ill and so sad that they had to we had to shoot on a weekend rubs and came down and he said, oh, it was just a camera on me. So I'll sit with you.

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I know you don't have to look at tennis ball, but he came down and helped me and we did that scene again. I know it so bad. I've never had to do that before being ill. But it was a lovely scene. I'm glad we got to do it again. And I think I think you're right. I think this is a blossoming for the new.

[00:14:37]

Well, I'm glad you mentioned the final scene to me. I think that's probably my favorite scene of this entire season. So much of the season has been about how people can construct makeshift or found families. The final scenes of the season have will enjoy sitting outside, looking in at the people gathered to celebrate Will's birthday. It says a lot about the show and it says a lot about these characters that will have sort of invited into his life. What did you make of those final images and what do they say about Grantchester as a whole?

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I think they just drive home the family aspect of just everyone that we care about, the audience cares about all in that room and and everything's everything's seemingly good. And I think it harks back to the personal Eden theme of the thing that looking through that window we are looking at and and I don't think it could be better at that point. You know, Mississippi is allowed Daniel back into that to the house and, you know, all seeming to move forward in a good way together.

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I think it's a beautiful image to end on. And it was it was really lovely to watch that scene.

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I thought Will had blown it completely with Ellie, but I love the playfulness to their scene together at the police station where we'll ask for another chance to start over, quote, in the middle. What did you make of that scene and of their chances together? Is there any possible future for them at this point?

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I think it was a really good scene, really necessary seem to have, because I think the character really was always kind of up in the air of whether they would leave it open in that way. And I think because of the chemistry, the men Lauren had, the characters have and stuff, and I think they went, well, let's let's see if we can at least allude to the idea that there's maybe an openness, whether that then carries on.

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I'd like to think that honestly, even if Ellie and well didn't end up together, they they parted on amicable times. I think it was a really lovely, kind of playful. And let me say to something that they've they've had some up or down since and some dark times and some embarrassing situations. But I think I think hopefully there's some future for them. Maybe maybe.

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I did want to ask about Matthew Will finally does go and seek him out. You know, I feel like a bit to make amends. Do you see the scene as sort of playing out as an act of humility, of admitting that he was perhaps wrong and shunning him? How do you see that final scene between the two men?

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It's of course, that, I mean, will very much go towards the denial side of things. And you can see with the way he's dealing with everything. And Jodie Jodie, who has been, you know, the last person to advocate for Matthew, is the one trying to persuade Wil to go and make up for what he's done. And that makes Will even angrier and push away from it even further because he can't confront what he's done. He blames himself again.

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He's blamed himself for his father's death and he's blamed himself for the fact that he kept taking Matthew back to his abuser. He can't face up to that. It would break him. But to finally finally he does once he's understood that he's flawed, he's come to terms with those things and come to terms with what he's done. And he has to make amends. And I think it's very much that's what it is. And he can he can make up for what he did through or through a positive action and through supporting Matthew in the future.

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On Bunkroom, you know, you can have boys, like you said, the place. It's a people with an. You could do so much good. You do this for me. Because you deserve it. And I start. A sixth season of Grantchester seems all but certain at this point, where would you like to see Will's character taken in the next go around?

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It's a tough one. You know, I think I can say that we have we have talked about our next series and we have had one of our dinners together and talked about series. I don't know. I don't know. I think, like I said earlier, I want to see where this liberation takes him. And I want to see where a character now who is accepted is past and is not trying to to hide it and escape it in the same way where that kind of openness can take him.

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I'm excited to see what happens with me and me and Jodie. Our friendship grows even further. I'm looking forward to just seeing the relationship grow and just seeing where it goes. I don't know. I like I said with Ellie, you know, if the relationship with Ellie doesn't doesn't happen, she's a she's a wonderful journalist. And I have to see what happens with her character, whether it's in the show or whether we see that she's gone on to do better things.

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And maybe if Ellie's not in the picture, what relationships with women will maybe now have in the future? I think it will be interesting. But I also I think, you know, for me, taking well out of it, I'm most interested to see what might happen to Leonard next year.

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And I think I have a feeling that I think it's going to be a lot about Leonard next series, I think.

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Tom, Brittny, thank you so very much. Thank you so much.

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Before our conversation with Robson Green, let's take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsors. Castles and cathedrals, vineyards and vistas, Viking is dedicated to bringing the traveler closer to the destination along the great rivers of Europe, offering a small ship experience with a shore excursion included in every port. Learn more at Viking Cruises Dotcom. This week, we are joined by Grantchester star Robson Green. Welcome, Jace. Nice to hear your voice in these very surreal times.

[00:20:34]

We would have thought that saving the human race would mean staying at home and doing absolutely nothing other than watching box set on Netflix.

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If it's a sacrifice that we can make, I'm willing to make it.

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When we last spoke, you'd wrapped up the fourth season of Grantchester, which featured a handover between James Norton and Tom. Britney making that season one of transition season five for Grantchester and indeed, Jordan will hit the ground running. What felt different this season?

[00:21:06]

I think I said I've said this and most interviews, I think this is the best season yet, season five. I think it's because everybody loves being involved in the show and because Tom Britney, who plays well, brought this whole new energy to a much needed energy. It just feels like it's stepped up a gear and everybody has committed to what it is and everybody's enjoying that commitment. And I think the relationship between the engine, if you like, the engine will and Jody is so set in stone and knows what it is, as does all the gallery of likable characters.

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They know what they are. You can start to take risks. And not only the actors can take risks, but the cinematographer can make up can. And most importantly, the writing has taken risks. And I think in this series I use the word shocking in one interview. And I think it is the most shocking series because I thought initially when Daisy was writing certain episodes and certain breaks, when I was reading them, I thought they were way outside the remit and we were entering a dangerous territory whereby we moved away from what Grantchester has always been for, which is this quintessentially English, lovable, likable, charming story with something uncomfortable underneath.

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But there's something shocking underneath and too dark. We may lose the elements that are attractive anyway. I think Daisy just came up with a series and a brief because she oversaw all the writing that was so compelling and worked so well that we were forced to up our game because the writing was so good. So in my opinion, it is the best series yet and the relationships are so free and relaxed and enjoyable not only to play, but to watch and be with and be alongside as a viewer.

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It's it's it's been an absolute joy to actually be part of that that that series. And it's the it's the one I'm most proud of, I have to say.

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And you mentioned the relationships. I mean, there is a different sort of dynamic between Jordan will than there was between Jordan and Sydney. What do you think makes their friendship tick? And do you see it as being more akin to a father son bond than one between, say, contemporaries? Interesting.

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So I think the one thing and the relationship with Tom Britney and Die of Jordie and Wil is a one of father and son, most definitely. Whereas the relationship with Sydney and Jodie was two individuals, two friends who lived vicariously through one another. I desired his life or the freedom of women crawling up my feet. And he wanted one of security and family life, but also the dynamic that I think makes the will Davenport Jodie Keating relationship more solid is because Wil hasn't fought in war and he's never seen the two destructive nature of man, which already has.

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So that's really on his side in terms of the relationship. And therefore you have this notion of a father figure saying to his son, you don't know you've been born. You have no idea what I've seen. You have no idea what human beings are capable of. But with the Sydney Geordie relationship, they both did. So that that is the main difference. And I think Jodie and Series five really enjoys the notion of the fact that we don't solve problems by living life through an invisible friend.

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We can solve problems by talking to people through the University of Life and and talking to people and reminding them that no matter how good you think life is, there is always something around the corner, always something unexpected that can turn it on its head within an instant. And Jodie gets a kind of kick out of reminding will of that. So the. There's a lot of point scoring going on with Jordan that is really enjoyable to play and I think is enjoyable to watch as well.

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I mean, he does fight against change, whether that's personal or sometimes societal or generational. This season, he does court change by making the rather monumental decision to reorganize his household by inviting his mother in law, Diana, a.k.a. the cavalry, to stay with them. What are the initial motivations behind his decision?

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Well, yes, so. At the start of series five, this is the metaphorically, everybody has their own Eden Will's happy. His place in Grantchester seems to be cemented. His relationship with Jordis. Good. My goodness. Geordie and Kathy are getting on. Finally, there's this idyllic kind of imagery of the family. The visual grammar is telling us that all is wonderful. Goodness sake, Leonard is happy for the first time. Mrs. Happy with Jack surely couldn't get any better.

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Well, let's make a better story to himself when he says, OK, I accept Kathy is going to have her own life in terms of career and and corridor throughout that career. And so if he can help that in any way and make her happy and love Judy more, so he will be. And so he thinks that bringing in the mother in law, played by the wonderful Paula Wilcox, he thinks to himself, this is just going to make things better.

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The kids can be looked after. Kathy will have more time for a job and have more time for Jodie. And therefore, the whole notion of nothing good ever lasts as Jodie lives by nothing good ever lasts, plays out once the mother in law turns up, because one of the main themes in series five Secrets and Lies, and we all have them. And since time began, we've all had them and they come to the surface. Once the mother in law turns up and Jodie can tell by Cathy's expressive expression when she lays eyes on her mother that something is amiss and therefore something very secretive, very dark and very something in the fifties that was swept under the carpet plays out for all to see and I think colocated.

[00:27:51]

So beautifully and with an amazing amount of heart and pathos and the madness that unfolds within the household was something that certainly I can certainly relate to and in real life and experiences I've had and a lot of other people's lives as well. So this whole kind of charming notion of the start, Grantchester has it just completely flipped on its head when the mother in law turned it down and played by Paula. And just brings us back to that really kind of serious notion of of something uncomfortable slowing below the Garden of Eden.

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I mean, it's only after the the dinner party from hell and Diana actually takes a sledgehammer to the wall that Kathy finally tells Jodi about her childhood with Diana. Do you feel there's a sense here that the detective failed to detect what was going on here? Or is it more that Cathe did a really good job covering this up and really embedding these secrets within her?

[00:28:58]

Well, we just played it. And I did ask Daisy and Emma and a few of the other actors. I talked to Paula about it.

[00:29:09]

At what point do I realize something is amiss? Because the way I played it and decision I made was she's just the batty mother in law. And it's only when something destructive happens if physical destruction to all he knows, there's something far more to be batty to play here.

[00:29:28]

And I think it's down to the writing played it really well, but it's down to the performance as well when she's you know, it is the dinner from hell. This is all laid out. It's just fantastic. Oh, my goodness. What a cook. What a woman. The house is clean. The children appear to be happy again. Everything be happy. And then suddenly, like all good drama, nothing good ever lesson is all flipped on its head.

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So the decision is certainly made and the playing of that scene. And Paul made the planet seem she's just the batty mother in law who's larger than life. Isn't she great. And it's only when there's something deeply amiss towards him when she starts setting the table on fire and frightening the children and then finding her daughter. And then, you know, that only comes so much during a corrosive experience, which is denial, which is what Cathy's living through.

[00:30:23]

It has to come to the surface. And so therefore, I think it was time beautifully and I thought it was written beautifully, I thought was played beautifully. You're right. It was only when the physical destructive act started taking place that nobody could help her in terms of her daughter and the pain she's been going through in terms of denial and the secrets and lies that she's lived through all her life, that it needs her. The problem needs to be taken elsewhere.

[00:30:48]

And it's a lovely play because, you know, this is about love. Love hurts. Love is destructive. Love is incredibly painful. And, you know, I spoke to Daisy about my own mother who suffers from dementia. And we all live in denial. But when I see my mother's joy, it just walking along a beach or there's this childhood memory she'll have if I take her to see a film about Winston Churchill, darkest hour. She just starts speaking about her childhood.

[00:31:18]

And I just I was watching her and I saw a lot of my mother in her performance and it was utterly beautiful. And there was a couple of takes that I forgot my lines because I was just in all of what Paul was doing. She's so gorgeous, an absolute legend. We could learn a lot from them. She's a fantastic actress.

[00:31:36]

And the two scenes where she has to coax Diana out of the Keating household were incredibly powerful. There's just a sort of humanistic performance from the three of you, from you, Paul Wilcox, and scenes where particularly because they relied on the normally stoic Geordie becoming incredibly sensitive. How difficult of a sequence was this to film with Paul and Casey?

[00:32:02]

So I'll be honest with you, Casey went through the story of Paul unobscured on a case. He brought it up. She recalled experiences with her own mother. And I brought experiences with my mother to that scene.

[00:32:15]

Sometimes I'm not a method actor, but sometimes you can bring you know, you have to have a happy face and you can bring your own experiences to to any scene. And I just felt I was talking to my mum about certain things when my mum becomes scared and vulnerable and confused and upset about life. And she's trying to work out why things aren't making sense because of the glitches in her own behaviour, things are slowing down not only physically but mentally as well and becoming more and more confused.

[00:32:48]

And it's a very scary place to be. But the. On inherent thing that exists within family, a good family is love, and that's all we played in that scene. So it was upsetting but is is genuine and from many cases, many cases only shared experiences of our own mothers.

[00:33:06]

So it wasn't that difficult to play is just upsetting because in it, you know what's at play here in the real world, we're faking sincerity when when we're acting and we're suspending disbelief. Stories are powerful and they sometimes remind us that loving one another within our family is is a beautiful thing to behold. And I think that's what we we we played that in that scene.

[00:33:33]

I love his line of fine. I know we just want you to get well. But if I know one thing about the women in your family. It's that they're as tough as diamonds. Now, shall we show the neighbors just how important you are? It's a message for Diana in as much as it is for Cath, what was it like getting to showcase this very different side to George Keating than we've seen on Grantchester previously?

[00:34:07]

Well, it's it is a decision I made from the kind of black and white scenario initially that, you know, certain people from certain walks of life should be looked at in a negative way. You know, those people who go through life with entitled Is Jodie dislikable? You know, we're all products of our upbringing. And and in that first and second series, I made a conscious decision not to hang out or my washing, because as an actor, you know, I've seen some actors in a scene or they do something in a scene and I'm thinking in a series.

[00:34:45]

And so they're committed to a serious acting. And how on earth are you going to top that next week? I mean, this is an ongoing series. So in order for it to be enjoyable, in order for it to develop, you bring out certain aspects of a character throughout that series that keeps the audience with you. You care enough about a character throughout the series, and there's likeability within that character. But you see certain changes that you didn't know.

[00:35:12]

It's a really nice thing to play. I've been in a lot of series in my career and I've used that kind of method.

[00:35:21]

If you like, to actually keep that series going and make the process enjoyable, make the series likable and also just explore another side to a character that that maybe no one else had seen before, including Daisy. We talk a lot with Daisy about the character. I say, let's just see this side. So, I mean, I've already been speaking to Daisy about Series six, as has Tom. And that's a gorgeous thing going to happen with William during seriously.

[00:35:50]

They both go a while. And so who's going to save the two with that one save and the other? They're both in trouble.

[00:35:57]

It's really funny. It's great. They go well, great.

[00:36:03]

Will is the do gooder. He believes in second chances, something that the more cynical Geordie often scoffs at, such as Ross and Green. Apparently we see this argument brought to life in their very differing approaches to young offender Matthew Butler. Does Jordy see Will's interest in transforming Matthew's life as naive? Yeah, it's again, it's they come from two universities and the university that, you know, will come from is through wealth and privilege circumstance, whereas Jodi has just come through struggle and strife and the University of Life and the life is very different to what will lead.

[00:36:46]

And Jodi is one of the reasons why he's good at his job is because he he speculates to accumulate in terms of knowledge. But he can always spot a bad person at a very young age. And he lives by the philosophy that never underestimated when your grandmother said he'll always grow up to be a baby. And that's what Jodi lived by. He knows he's going to grow up to be about. So that's the decision you make as an actor, because my grandmother used to say and she was like my grandmother, my grandmother used to spot these kids in all the regions.

[00:37:23]

He's going to go to prison. He's going to he's going to turn out OK. He's going to be very bright. He's going to be a leader, my grandmother. So Jody kind of lives with that philosophy. And therefore, it's really nice to play when when he discovers of his will is right that we should not only invest in ourselves and our philosophies, that we maybe we should invest in others. And that is a great philosophy and great philosophy that is shared by well.

[00:37:53]

So as is the nice thing to play, definitely.

[00:37:55]

You think we're all naive, don't you? It will only fall for it because he is the best man. This has broken him, though I don't give a damn about that any more than you do about those boys. You don't see I look at Matana. And then Jodi brutally punches Vic in the gut, is this for Will, is this action for Will? It was it was interesting shooting that scene, because I was I was told to do it for well days.

[00:38:36]

I said do it for Will because you said the audience will do it for Will and because he is a prince among men. But it's also Geordie's never liked him. He's never liked him. And this is just the one chance on behalf, not on behalf of will not be half of the victims, not only on behalf of Daisy the audience. Let's just just klodt him just Bactrim giving what he deserves. And I, I sensed an audible cheer when the punishment in in the scene when we were actually filming it.

[00:39:16]

Rob Evans, who was there, a gorgeous director, my favorite director of the whole show, he's so gorgeous. You pumped his fist. Do it. Yeah. I love that love that. We all wanted to see that we all that was that was for everybody. Not just one. That was for everybody. Quite right. Quite right.

[00:39:33]

While working the Nora Martin case in the sixth episode, Jordan will don't get some sappy reconciliation scene, but rather a quick I was a pain in the arse waving away of an apology.

[00:39:45]

Should I be worried about you know, I was a bit worried about you. As it turns out, I'm fine. Honestly, I think after work, I just have to wonder for a while became a pain in the arse.

[00:40:05]

You mean does it speak volumes for the depth of the bond between these two that there doesn't need to be this long, drawn out apology? That final scene was lovely for so many reasons, it was it was beautifully written, but it's it's also it's just about friendship.

[00:40:23]

It's about why people watch the show. It's about the likability of that friendship because it's so relatable to an audience. And I think that's what was coming across in in the show. And I don't think if you if it was written in a different way, there was this kind of dissection of what will it gone through? And you can remember it's a one hour TV program with breaks in it. You have to very quickly and cleverly get to the point of reconciliation.

[00:40:52]

And I think it was not only played really nicely, but it was written beautifully. And just with the enough with just the right moment for the economy, for the audience to go. Yeah, I'll watch those two again.

[00:41:06]

What does Geordie make of the reveal that Will gave up his vow of celibacy, not with Ellie, but with Sister Grace of our people?

[00:41:18]

We shot that scene so many times. We shot it and we looked at it and it just wasn't right for a few reasons. A Tom's Tom's voice was going a bit and it just sounded a bit it just didn't sound right. And the way I was delivering some of the lines just just didn't work. It was flawed in many respects. And I think the way I was reacting initially, thankfully, the audience didn't see the scene. The way I was reacting initially was like I was enjoying the fact that he was getting off with a non pilot.

[00:41:54]

But instead of just a genuine shock and the joke the first time we shot it off. Just tell me one thing. Did you wear the wimple? It didn't work because we played the scene as a joke. But if you play it for real and play the reality of circumstance at the end of the scene, it worked. So we shot it again and it was much better. And I think it really cemented the relationship and that, you know, will this happy for the time being.

[00:42:25]

And if Grace made him happy, that's good in his book.

[00:42:30]

I mean, it's funny that line punctures the tension rather than escalates it. And I think that's why it works, is that you do play it very seriously. And then it is sort of typical Geordie sort of taking the mickey and asking about the wimple. Yeah, I love that final scene with them outside the vicarage. As Will's birthday party goes on inside, what is this final scene say about Found Families and Grantchester as a whole? You know what it says, because I think one of the reasons why you love it, Joyce, is because it's beautifully written.

[00:43:09]

There's an economy of thought come in in that scene from Daisy. And like Shakespeare, Shakespeare is easy to learn or your favorite record.

[00:43:18]

You probably know all the words to your favorite song because it's beautifully written and therefore it was so easy to play once we got our act together, the time we went at it. And I think what it says about Grantchester is it's quality. It's beautifully written. The characters are likeable, the characters you care about, the characters you want to follow. And for that one hour of Grantchester, when you're sitting there watching it, you think to yourself, I wish I was there with them.

[00:43:50]

I wish I was there with them because I really like I loved watching that scene and I really wish I was just an or just someone sitting with a drink. Just watching all that unfold is like my mother when I take her out.

[00:44:03]

She loves watching the world go by. And my mom is a huge fan of Grantchester.

[00:44:09]

Sometimes I'll be watching it with and she'll say to me, What are you doing on the television? Which sometimes didn't grasp the fact that I'm still an actor. But she does enjoy it. And the smile on her face when I see it through my mother's eyes and when I see it through the other people's eyes of my mother's ilk, it's all the more enjoyable. And I think it's down to the quality of the writing and it's the quality of the of the acting and it's the quality of the team, the role at the top of the game and Grantchester.

[00:44:38]

And what it says about family is that love is everything. And Grantchester is a very lovable place to actually working.

[00:44:45]

So it's the fact that Jordie and will go AWOL next season. You've talked to today said going in, did you have any wishes for where you'd want to see the character of Jordy Keating taken next season, taken away from Grantchester?

[00:45:06]

Let's just see them outside their comfort zone, location wise. So before the global pandemic, we were going to the seaside, possibly abroad on a package, some kind of package, too.

[00:45:22]

But we were still going to the seaside and we come across a victim on the beach.

[00:45:30]

I'm not spoiling anything because it's because cowbirds change the whole thing. But we're going to a holiday camp and it was all going to it all going to happen within that context. And but we're still still sticking with the theme of two friends, not not not either one of them being outside the comfort zone, but both of them being outside their comfort zone. And therefore, the circumstances surrounding themselves is so overwhelming that it affects them both. So they both capitulate at the same time.

[00:46:01]

So they seek outside help in terms of saving them. So and to Mississippi and to Leonard and to Kathy to save them. So it gives I think it gives a lot more scope to the ensemble cast as well.

[00:46:15]

So, yeah, it's just a day they find themselves in a den of iniquity and they and they have no escape, so they need saving. So that's the theme we're going to play with that no matter where you are in life, know expect the unexpected and sometimes you rely on your loved ones to save you rather than your closest friend.

[00:46:39]

So Jordan will in Betha not far off.

[00:46:44]

Don't even joke about it, Jase. Not far off by my.

[00:46:49]

That's when I went. Look, Interpol was huge then. It was a big thing with the collaboration between Europe and other countries was big in the fifties and was becoming more and more prolific as it as time went on and there were so many cold cases that were unsolved.

[00:47:08]

And so there was this notion that we take the two of them to France and obviously we're less fluent in French Jordis, not Geordies, not going to eat any foreign book.

[00:47:19]

Of course, all the cliches can be played out. It's all that kind of that lovely stuff. When we when we are all outside of our comfort zone, taking way outside our comfort zone.

[00:47:29]

But the thing that takes the way outside is the location rather than the situation within Grantchester location abroad.

[00:47:35]

I just think it's a great device to play on the two of them because, you know, abroad for Jordi Kallet, for Jordi, off the scope for comedy, just the scope for comedy. Well, I cannot wait to see it.

[00:47:50]

Robson Green, thank you so much. Always a pleasure, James.

[00:47:59]

Season five of Grantchester might be done and dusted, but we have more Grantchester moments on the way and an upcoming special bonus episode of the podcast. We speak with series creator Daisy Culham and Grantchester writers John Jackson and Joshua S. Johnston about how they crafted the stories and scenes you'll remember this season.

[00:48:16]

Do you think if policemen ever looked through your search history be like straight to tell you, I had to Google how to build a bomb.

[00:48:23]

I'm sure that my favorite listening into this even now.

[00:48:27]

That's out Wednesday, July 22nd. And so is a special video excerpt of our podcast taping.

[00:48:40]

Masterpiece Studio is hosted by me, Jace Lacob, and produced by Nick Anderson, Alicia Eatock is our editor. Rebecca Eaton is the executive producer at large of Masterpiece, the executive producer of Masterpiece with Suzanne Simpson. Sponsors for Masterpiece on PBS are Viking Cruises, Raymond James and the Masterpiece Trust.