Megan McCain has entered the. Welcome to Megan McCain has entered the chat with me, Megan McCain. Today on the show, we have my friends Carol Markowitz and Bethany Mandel. Bethany is a candidate for Montgomery County, Maryland, Board of education. And Carol is a New York host, columnist and host of the Carol Markowitz show podcast. Mo Kelly is a radio and television commentator, and he hosts the weeknight show later with Mo Kelly on KFiam 640 and I heart Radio. All my friends, Miranda, we just taped with them. Very good. Nice to see you again. I know we missed our show on Tuesday. We asked for everyone's forgiveness. Sometimes shit happens. Just scheduling life, president's day, studio time, all the things that didn't work out. But we have anything coming up in the future, in the foreseeable future, where we were going to have to miss another show.

Not that I can tell on the calendar. And then you did, like, an Instagram live. Because I was asking you. I was like, do people really care that much if we miss a show? Remember, I was asking you off the air and you're like, yeah, they freak out. And you were right. I was so surprised. On your Instagram live last night, everyone's like, we missed the podcast. When's the podcast coming back? When are you going to be back on the air? Did you get fired?

Every time I miss anything, once it's, did you get fired? No. I've actually only been fired by one thing in my entire life. And it was not the view, but no. And I was like, we've done like 30 something shows. We're working on it. But, yeah, we're good. We're back. We got some fun things coming up. The South Carolina primary is this weekend, so we'll be talking about it on Monday. I don't have anything else to say. Do you?

I wanted to ask you about Tom Sandoval and his really stupid comments.

What's wrong with him? The New York Times. So Tom Sandoval, for people that don't know, was asked by the New York Times, which, by the way, New York Times, him agreeing to do a New York Times interview. That's. No. Yeah. And the interviewer asked him about the scandal, sex scandal, and he compared himself to George Floyd and OJ Simpson, which again, I'm confused on, like, scandinaval is.

Also a very world known black man.

But also, like, OJ Simpson murdered his wife, and George Floyd was murdered by a police officer. I don't understand the connection. I guess he was trying to say, like, he has since apologized and he was trying to say like, media attention wise. But, dude, don't do fucking interviews if you're going to sound like that. Like, come on. Come on, my friend.

Does he not have pr people that can just kind of tell him to back it up or give context? Because I think that anybody who is familiar with him, a, knows he's not very smart, but b, none of those.

People on that show are smart on Vanderpump. Not one is smart, I would say not one person on that entire franchise is smart, I don't think.

But who would try to give him the benefit of the doubt, possibly knew what he was trying to say. Because, I mean, I got it. After thinking about it for a second, it's like, okay, yeah. He means just by the scope of the coverage. Because, yes, it did. It got them to the White House.

It was on.

Like, everybody was talking about it. We're still talking about it. Nearly a year later, the New York Times is covering it. So I understand what he was trying to say. He just said it in this really boneheaded and tone deaf way, especially during black History Month, to compare yourself to people like that. And then his apology was like a screenshot from his Instagram story.

He's like, I'm stupid. Sorry. And by the way, I mean, the Vanderpump cast is stupid. They're not that smart in the sense that what I consider smart and Miranda, what you consider smart, we are lucky that we work and know. Don't think I wouldn't ask any of them on my podcast to talk about the news. How about that? That's a better way to give them.

They're smart in other ways. Like, if I wanted to figure out how to get a million followers or start a makeup line, for sure, the people I would go to, totally. But I love them, and I will watch them forever.

It's funny. I'm so over the show, and I've actually been reading a lot of comments. You know, our favorite instagram by wig. Hello. Drama has been showing that other people are kind of over the season, too, because the scandal has been just, like, all encompassing that it's just all we're going to talk about forever. And I, too, would like to move on from the discourse because, again, we're talking. I mean, over a year now. That's a long time.

Not even on the show anymore. Rachel.

Raquel, whatever.

And they're still using her for the ridiculous. And I mean, not to be gross, but everyone's sober, and that's.

Yes, yes. Are you looking forward to the Beverly Hills reunion at um, if Kyle is.

Going to be honest, did you see that trailer for buying Beverly Hills where Marie?

Yes, I did.

We got more out of that trailer in three minutes about their marriage, the state of their marriage, than this entire season.

That's true. With Kyle. That's true.

I'm more looking forward to this new season of Real House of Atlanta whenever it starts, because Portia's back, by way.

Hello.

Drama said that Kim Zolcik's coming back. Candy's gone. That opens the door for possibly Phaedra coming back. She's been killing it on traders and all of the ultimate girls trips. If we could start getting some of these original cast members in and not rebooting the whole franchise, because I think people saw that New York reboot was not the hit people were trying to make it be, I think it might have a chance of survival. And Portia's husband has all these really weird od camera things going on. I want to explore that some more.

There's also rumors Kim Zolciax coming back to Atlanta. So if Kim and Phaedra and Portia are back, I will watch every single episode and make Ben watch the girls in real will twice.

We'll have someone on analyze it.

Yes. This will be a big, just a warning. This will be a very big thing for Miranda and I. Going forward for the chat Atlanta edition.

We'Re going to pivot.

I know. Housewives podcast 100%. I also just want to say I spent the weekend in Orlando at the BBYO convention, which is a wonderful organization that is for young teen Jewish, not only Americans, but it's an international organization. And they were so lovely, and the kids were so fun. I'm so old compared to teenagers, but they were like, so wonderful to speak to. They gave me this lovely award, and I got to speak on a panel with the actor Josh Molina, who was so smart and so nice, and I got to speak at another little thing about politics to them. And it was like a really wonderful experience. And I also made a lot of friends in the Orlando airport when I was delayed for almost 4 hours. And I met a man who was at a car wash convention, a man who was there for a rice convention. I met someone who had just come from Appleton, Wisconsin, and was delayed from a cruise. I could run for mayor of the Orlando airport, and I'm confident I will win. Just so we're clear, I made so many friends in the Orlando airport, lower baggage fees, better restaurant at the Orlando.

The macaroni grill and Chili's is really not cutting it like we could better restaurant.

Megan.

Yes, that's my so. But I had a really nice time, and I just want to thank them for inviting me because it was such a little, like a nice little know, escape into the real world to talk about serious issues and fun things. And they were just a really wonderful organization. I highly recommend it if you have jewish family members, friends that are teenagers, that it just seemed like fun camp like time.

There is like Google what a car wash convention entails.

I know a lot about car washes right now.

The new scrub brushes or whatever.

They're new equipment, different kinds of equipment, what it costs to start a car wash and what it would be around $7 million, I was told. Car wash conventions.

Yeah, I love a drive through car wash. It's a fun way to entertain a toddler.

The man I spoke to also said that during COVID was like a peak time for them because car washing was like one of the few things people could do, which I forgot about. Anyway, I love it. Really. I almost asked him on. I almost did it. And then I was like, no, I'm not going to do it.

I'm like, we're having this guy on. I just know it.

I was so bored in the airport. I almost was going to do like a live stream being like, here, I'm here, and nothing to do because, whatever. But my flight did eventually. Everyone around you, you know what? At a certain point, I was, like, frustrated, and I was like, oh, my God, I'm so delayed and this sucks. And I was delayed getting down there, too, and I was just, like, cranky. And then I was like, you've just got to surrender and then lean in. That's my advice. In life in general, when you're in a situation you don't want to be, sometimes you got to surrender and lean in. That's what I did. Just give up. I was like, okay, let's talk, everybody. I talk for money.

Go ahead and surrender.

Surrender. Okay. All right. On that note, we're going to get started with the podcast. And again, thank you for your patience. Not fired, not quitting, not gone. Just couldn't make it work last week.

All right, everyone, it's fine once in a while.

Okay, let's get started. Welcome back to Megan McCain has entered the chat with Megan McCain. When I first launched this podcast in October, these were two people who were on my list of people I wanted to get because they had just released their book called Stolen Youth. Carol Markowitz and Bethany Mandel are here. Bethany is a writer, commentator political analyst. And currently, this is amazing. A candidate for Montgomery County, Maryland's board of education. And carol is a New York post columnist and host of the Carol Markowitz show podcast. Ladies, thank you so much for taking time today. I know you're so busy, and I really appreciate you coming on.

Hi, Megan. Thanks so much.

Yes, thank you. This has become my favorite podcast.

You're just saying that. Well, your husband, Carol's my favorite podcast. And I have to say, though, your husband's commentary podcast, Seth, I listen to it every day. He's so good. I actually was going to reach out to have him on as well. And there's something that I need in my life, that I need John Pereritz to be angry in the morning for me to get my adrenaline and blood moving in my body. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is about that podcast that, like, need. But my husband was saying, like, I just hear their voices in the background of my life at all times. So I love those podcasts. Hopefully not in his dreams. He saw Matthew Cottonetti at some event, and he's like, I always hear your voice. Your voice is always in my life. Anyway, funny, because I've listened to that.

Podcast since my oldest was very little, and she loved the intro theme song. And then I brought her to the office one day to meet John, thinking it would be like a celebrity encounter. And he talked, and she burst into tears.

Why?

In real life, scared Jesus out of her.

And I was like, okay, he's kind of a big baby guy. He is such a baby guy. He's, like, obsessed with babies that he made her cry. Well, I want to just start with Bethany. I mean, candidate for Montgomery county board of education. What made you decide to do this? I mean, a run for school board seems really intense, especially in Montgomery county. What made you make this decision? What's the process been like, and why do you want to do this? I would never do this. Why do you want to do this?

Why did I do this? That's the question my husband Seth keeps asking me. So I was watching who was entering the race, and the woman who entered the race for my district is awful. If it were up to her, kids would have been forced to be vaccinated. They'd still be in masks, and she'd think that was a compromise because at least schools were finally open, which she would have opened six months ago. She is drastic. Over the summer, there were protests outside of the Montgomery board of education because muslim parents, majority muslim, and some ethiopian christian parents protested because Montgomery county public school system decided that LGBTQ books were mandatory, even k through five mandatory. You cannot pull your child out. They told them that we won't tell you when we're having the kids read these books. That's, like, in the passive. Like, they're reading them to these kids. We won't tell you when we're reading them to your kids. And you can't opt your kids out. And so there was this big protest, and the woman who's running for my seat stood outside of the board of education meetings protesting the parents who were like, can we just opt our own children out?

She was standing out there calling them bigots, and I saw her, and I was like, this cannot be as bad as the support of education is now. It's going to get that much worse. And what's frustrating about it is that test scores have all plummeted, violence has skyrocketed, and all they seem to be concerned about are these books, and they've spent half a million dollars making this mandatory in the county. Meanwhile, kids can't read.

Well, can I ask you both? I mean, we're all kind of in the same circles for a long time in the political commentary, conservative areas. But one of the ways that I really felt really connected to both of your work was during COVID and the COVID lockdowns, because all the things you two were going through. I didn't have children at the time, but I felt this same thing. Sense of anger, sense of frustration, sense of, like, I was being lied to and kids were being taken advantage of, and we were hurting the youth of our country in a way that was irredeemable. Carol, you infamously moved to Florida and left New York after you, I believe, had been there for extremely long time in Brooklyn. And now you're kind of like a little ambassador to Florida.

I think you should come.

I don't mean I'll get to that in a second. But I want to know, just, like, for you, how do you feel like your life would have been different if you stayed in New York? And do you feel like there is any understanding now broadly? Because I think there actually is a shift, even among people on the left, that things went too far during COVID and even, like, the things Bethany is talking about right now and fighting for. Why is it so important for the left for kids to have sex education at a bizarrely young age?

Yeah, well, so it's funny because I don't even know if you guys saw it, but recently, David Leonhart in the New York Times, who is kind of, um, the guy who brings them the news that everybody knew three or so years ago. He had a piece recently about how kids actually don't need to get the COVID vaccine. Which when I said that early on in the vaccinating kids process, that was a super controversial thing to say. And the thing was that it wasn't controversial. It was based on just facts, figures, numbers. I wasn't like, coming out against vaccines in general. I was just saying kids have a risk of zero, of dying from the COVID virus. Why would we give them a vaccine that is unable to reduce that risk? And we already knew that the vaccine didn't stop spread. So it was stuff like the fact that it was controversial, to say the obvious that I knew they were going to say eventually. It wasn't like I was aware that they were going to eventually come around to my point of view. It was just very frustrating that I had to be this evil anti vaxxer in the meantime, leaving New York.

I had grown up there my whole life. I definitely planned to live there. We built our dream house, moved in March 2020. It was because of the COVID regulations, but more than that, it was about New Yorker reactions to that. They didn't fight back at all. They accepted everything. They didn't raise their voices at all. One of the main things to me was like, private schools were open, but public schools weren't. And all the people who had just spent the summer marching for equity didn't say one word for the kids in public school. They just sent their kids to the open private schools. Things like that really made me bananas. But I wake up every day in Florida feeling like an absolute genius since then. And it's not just about COVID it's about know I don't have people marching by my house, talking, yelling about how Israel shouldn't exist, and I don't have the kind of crime that is happening in New York and that we're supposed to ignore because it's inappropriate to talk about the levels of crime and just disarray. My mother in law accidentally left my side door open for like 4 hours the other day.

And my big concern was like, lizards and frogs. And those are concerns, let me tell you, because I had a snake in my house and that was very worrying, but it wasn't. Squatters are going to move in. I love it. I think you all should move here. Forget about the school board race. Just come. Be fluid.

Look at your hair. Your hair alone.

I know. I was actually like wondering if you thought this was video because I was like, your hair looks beautiful, sunkissed, beachy look you got going on.

Thanks, guys. This could be you.

Why did you guys decide to write stolen youth? Because writing a book is so intense. And then writing a book, I assume, with another person is intense. What inspired it and why did you decide to do it?

So we always wanted to write a book together. We had been talking about it for years and we were thinking, when we sat down with this idea, especially in the wake of COVID we thought, do we have enough material? Obviously all this stuff is coming for kids. But people had been talking a lot about college students, have been talking about corporations. Like, Chris Rufo is really good at corporations. Is it hitting the k through twelve kids enough to fill a whole book? And so we started a Google Doc between the two of us and we started dumping stuff like anecdotes, stories that we saw, everything. And within a week we got on a call and we realized not only do we have a book, how do we organize this? There's just too much here. And I think the hardest part was organizing this sort of general consensus feeling of we feel like we're under assault all the time. Every turn we turn on the television and every time there's an ad on Nickelodeon for a new show, we feel like we have to pre screen everything. I tell a story in stolen youth about how my.

I think she was seven at the time. She picked up a graphic novel in the graphic novel section at the library. And I thank God I'm not an organized person. And I had it sitting in my trunk and I was writing the chapter on books and the publishing industry at the time. And two different moms warned me about this book. And I thought, like, the second time, that sounds really familiar. And maybe I looked back in my notes and I said, oh, the other mom had talked to me about it and then she described it and I had this replay moment in my head. I remember my oldest daughter telling me she was excited about this book about girl soccer players. That's a graphic novel. And the mom that I was on the phone with, I said, can you hold on a second? I ran out to my trunk, I took it out and I said, what page are you talking about? And I opened it up and lo and behold, there's a scene in this graphic novel for my seven year old about girls kissing at a sleepover. And I thought to myself, they slipped this in because if you object to it, you're there for a bigot.

But I don't want my daughter. This is something that I'm very paranoid about. I don't allow sleepovers. I don't want my daughter taking from that book that it's okay to have your first romantic experience at a sleepover. This is prime abuse territory. If you want to talk about grooming.

Like, whether with a boy or a girl.

Right.

Your kid is most likely to be sexually abused at a sleepover.

I know. I just read this recently. I just read this recently, brother. It's so scary. I had no idea.

I don't allow sleepovers.

Do you, Carol?

So I would say that this is partly why we also wrote the book, is that we sort of have different paths. I do allow sleepovers, and we have kind of a different way that we deal with our kids. My kids were all in public school in New York, and now some of them are in Private. Some are in public in Florida. Bethany homeschools her now six children. So we present as sort of deserve.

A medal for that.

I just found out yesterday my daughter couldn't pick. What's her name?

Taylor Swift.

She couldn't pick Taylor Swift out of.

A line cut out magazine. And the kids kind of amazing Taylor Swift.

And she said, oh, is that who this is?

I thought she was pretty.

Oh, my gosh.

My daughter was Taylor Swift for Halloween. So you have that.

You have the ying and the yang. Yeah. It's interesting because I'm kind of like an older mom, I guess. I have my first kid when I was 35, almost 36. Pediatrics. I know. Well, they call it that. They're like, you're so old, and you're the old mom, whatever. But most of my girlfriends from home had kids in their 20s, which is fine, whatever people want to choose. But I actually read this story, and I thought it was serendipitous you guys were coming on. Because I really want to talk about this because it really disturbed me when I read it. And I need to emphasize before I say this story that as I've gotten older, my perspective has changed, but also the world has changed a lot. The story you just told Bethany about the fact that I have to look for sexual stuff in a seven year old's book is not, I think, a normal thing that generations past had to do. It's also weird because I have a very interesting relationship with the LGBTQ community because I was, like, an early advocate for gay marriage. I actually am being impersonated on RuPaul's drag race in this upcoming episode by a drag queen.

I have a strong relationship with the LGBTQ community, or I have in the past, but then I read things like this, that according to british health officials, breast milk that is going to be produced by men who transition to women is as good for babies as milk from a genetic female. Again, this is. According to british health officials, this has obviously sparked outrage from critics questioning science. A leaked letter from the University of Sussex Hospital NHS Trust contended that the milk produced by transgender women after taking a combination of drugs and hormones is, quote, comparable to that produced by a mother following the birth of a baby, the Telegraph reported this week. Now, Bethany knows because I texted her a ton when I was first breastfeeding and I had a really hard time originally, and I had to pump and breastfeed and whatever, but there's a real emphasis on breastfeeding for women. I know they say fed is best, but they really prefer you to breastfeed before formula feeding. I personally have done a combination of everything. Yeah. But I also know when you do formula, you have to have filtered water. You can't take water from the sink.

You have to have, like, bottled water or filtered water, and that's for formula. So someone is going to tell me that I can't use filtered water, but hormone and drug breast milk from a genetic male is okay? I don't understand why the world's like this right now.

So I would say, like you, I always. That's a long intro, like a friend to the know. I love the gays. The gays love me.

That was always sort of my way.

But this is not about gay rights. This is. And it's funny because I wrote about this, biological men breastfeeding for the New York Post, I think it was last summer, and I went out that night with two of my left of center friends who are reasonable otherwise. And they were like, this is a fringe thing. It's not going to become a mainstream thing. You're focusing on two idiots who think that they're breastfeeding. But look where we are now. Now it's a medical organization saying that this is acceptable. Not just acceptable, just as good as women breastfeeding. So to me, it's not about being pro or anti LGBT. It's like I'm anti insanity. And this is crazy.

Yeah. I mean, I've breastfed for ten and a half years, and I did a.

Comic girl also, but mostly for ten and a half years.

I did like, a breast cancer screening. And they ask on the form, how many combined months have you breastfed? And she said she had never seen that number before.

Yeah. I was like, it was like 9000.

Yeah, it was a lot. And it's much more now. And I basically have had to watch my medication intake for ten years. I can't take anything. I can't.

There are things you can't eat because it makes your breast milk spicy. Whatever. I don't know. I was told I was having too much. Like I was eating too many spicy food. Anyway, go ahead.

I am the friend who, if you text like I just did this, is my baby going to be okay? My answer is always yes. Rule of thumb, like you said, the filtered water. And I was like, oh, one of my babies was like 60 40 formula and I never gave him anything.

I just took it out of the tap.

He's fine. I don't know, maybe he's not. He's kind of weird. But I've been watching what I've consumed for ten and a half years. When you are pregnant and nursing, which I have been for eleven years, you can't eat anything. You can't take pseudophed, you can't take everything. And then all of a sudden they're like, well, if you are a male, you can ingest all of these things and everything is honky dory and it doesn't pass the smell test, and it's the same as the COVID vaccine for kids. When you're thinking to yourself, well, this doesn't really make any sense. Why would I do this? And the experts, quote unquote, the last five years has been like the death of expertise. The experts keep on telling you things that are just patently false. In the middle of COVID I was reading my kids fables and everything, and we were reading the emperor's new clothes. And my super perceptive older two kids said, this feels just like Covid. My gosh, they tell us to put a cloth on our face and everything's fine, and obviously it's not.

This is just like, well, can I ask you, though, in regards to this story, because I always say I have very nuanced feelings about things like this, but when I hear, because I want everyone to feel respected, I think like both of you do. No one is anti LGBT here. I'm not against anything. But when I hear stories like this and I read things like this, it makes me scared because like you said, I too am anti insanity, Carol. And I also feel like children are going to be put in a situation that is very, very dangerous. And at the very least, when we're in a society, we should value babies and children's lives above all else. And this feels like a breakdown of our society, that we are no longer prioritizing babies. And that, to me, is a very, very scary world to live in. And when you say you're anti insanity, I obviously feel the same way. But why do you think we're at this place, again, where a transgender woman is going to take a combination of drugs and hormones and people are saying, it's fine. When you say you can't take pseudophed, I know that you can't take pseudophed when you breastfeed, which is not a hormone or an injection.

Why do you think we're here right now? And that may sound like a big question, but I just don't understand it, and it seems very antiscience.

Well, every time I think about being nice or about, like, just be nice and respectful, I realize that you really can't be in these situations. And actually, this is something. I was on Michael Malice's show. I know we're all mutual friends with him.

I love him.

Yeah, he's amazing.

He's my favorite anarchist, one of my favorite people.

Yeah. And so he was on my show. I was on his show, but I said something, know, be nice. And he's like, you wrote a whole book. That's why you can't be nice. Your whole book is about the fact that you can't be nice because they're going to trample on everything that you believe and go way beyond what they say that they care about if you're nice. So, for example, I would call anybody any pronoun that they want, but then that became plural, and then that became made up pronouns, and then that became, if you don't call me this pronoun, you're going to go to jail. And it literally is that slippery slope that conservatives care about or talk about. It happens, and I see that in every facet. I don't want to bum you guys out, but the whole thing about the porn books in the school libraries, we're losing that battle. That is polls very poorly for conservatives.

Why is that, though? Who wants their kids to read porn?

Because they got to where they painted us as these book burners, and it didn't matter what the content was anymore. It became, look at these crazy conservatives who want to pull Anne Frank books out of the library. And meanwhile, there was a great reason why not every kid, and it doesn't have to be porn. Sometimes the book is just inappropriate for young children. I'm jewish. I didn't tell my kids about the Holocaust until they were at an age where they could understand that I didn't throw that at them in kindergarten. Like, hey, guess what? 6 million, just like you, died in gas chambers. You have to kind of be conscious of not scaring children and giving them a resilience for their lives. This is part of what stolen youth is about for us, is about raising resilient children and the fact that we're losing the book battle because we're being painted as these know, book extremists. That should really depress people and scare people.

Yeah, I totally agree. Bethany, do you have anything? You looked like you wanted to say something.

So when we were selling the book, someone, one of the possible buyers, asked us, well, can you tone it down a little? Can you make it nicer?

Two different buyers, two different publishers said, can you stop with the fighting so much? Why are you guys fighting all the time?

My gosh, can you just make this nicer? Make this a positive read about how to raise kids in this environment? And I don't even think we talked about that. We were like, that's not a thing.

We can't do that.

First of all, it's not our personalities. We are very different in many ways. But we are both like New York Jews who don't fight is not an option. But not fighting is not an option anymore. You have to push back against this. You have to be willing to be called every single name in the book. And that's part of why I'm running for school board. Also because I realized I'm already very used to being called every name in the book. And I don't mind it. So if I'm going to.

It's also histrionic, too. It's ridiculous. Some of the stuff people call everyone on this call, even Miranda, is just so histrionic and absurd and dripping in misogyny. It's always okay to say the most sexist tropes possible towards conservative women. We're the main targets. It's fine. But liberal women, you say one thing and it's the end of the world. And you're. But us, no, just go crazy. I find always the attacks, particularly on you, Bethany, so misogynistic, for whatever it's worth. And it's like, she's a mother with six kids, so she can't have. It's, like, so disgusting.

Rolling Stone wrote a hit piece about me last week and they called me a prolific social media poster. And I was, like, also bestselling author.

But also, like, what? Okay, whatever.

They made sure when I talked about my husband, to talk more about him because they had to place me my relevance in relation to who my husband.

Is, because nobody fucking reads Rolling Stone magazine anymore. Like, nobody. It's not really a thing anymore. Anyway, sorry, I wanted to also ask you. And this was something that was covered on the commentary magazine podcast last week. There's this article that I know you guys read because everybody read it. This Emily Gould essay that went viral. I know Emily Gould from Gawker. Like, running Gawker and doing, like, Gawker stalker, which is, like, where they put in live term places where celebrities were at. It was actually quite dangerous. And she wrote this really weird article called should I leave my husband? The lure of divorce. And it's very sad article for anyone that hasn't read it, go check it out because it is worth reading. And basically, she has two kids, has a nervous breakdown, ends up in a literal mental institution. And a lot of her anxiety comes from not feeling like her career is where it is. And she's very competitive with her career, with her husband. And that basically being a mom, which we all are on this zoom right now, is hard. You have to make dinner and do laundry and do all of you.

My daughter was barfing on me last week. All night long. All night long, every 45 minutes, throwing up all over me and my hair. Like, not the sexiest night of my life for me and my husband. And it's what you sign up for when you have kids. What was your response to this essay? Because it made me so sad. She's around our age, and all these feminist writers make motherhood out to be like a fucking prison. That is just, like, the worst thing that can ever happen. And now new Pew research says that young men are more likely to want to become parents than young women in today's era. It's a lot of questions for you. Answer however you like.

I mean, this is basically the topic of the next book that I want to write. Carol said that she's breaking up with.

Me.

But this is the topic, basically, about how both the left and the right both paint motherhood to be absolute misery, dread. Everything is terrible. And our fertility numbers reflect that. No one wants to have kids anymore, and no one is having kids anymore. But it also ties back into stolen youth, because my last chapter I wrote about resilience, and this is just an absolute lack of resilience. Our generation were the trophy with the participation trophy generation. All of us got a trophy no matter what we did. And this is a woman who has never faced actual hardship in her entire life. I talk in the last chapter about how both my parents died when I was in my teens. I took my mother off life support when I was 16, and my father committed suicide when I was 19. And weirdly, I'm kind of grateful for it. Obviously, it was pretty unpleasant experience in my 20s. My early 20s were really rough, but it gave me such a deep appreciation for life, but also what's important in life. It's why I've made the life choices I have. I had six kids because it's a direct reflection of having lost both my parents and having had no siblings.

But this is a woman who never experienced any hardship and just has no appreciation for, oh, my God, you are so blessed. And you are blessed with a husband, by the way, who seems really nice because he puts up with a lot. And I say that as a wife who's blessed with a husband who puts up with a lot. Same like running for schoolbird without asking him, let alone telling him. And she takes it all for granted. And she's a taker. She's a taker. And she doesn't practice anything resembling gratitude. And lo and behold, she's miserable. And all of this stuff churns out miserable adults who have no resilience and have no desire to have no resilience. All of them sort of bask in their victimhood. I'm a this, I'm a that. I'm on this antidepressant. And they can't just say, you know what? I'm really happy. That's not a thing we're allowed to say anymore. Everything that gets, like, on the Internet is about pain and strife and struggle, and sometimes you just can't. I'm really happy you're not really sorry for it.

As Bethany's co author, I now see the headline of this podcast, Bethany Mendel. Happy her parents died. I can predict where this goes.

I know what you meant.

Yeah, no, but I've already been canceled for killing my mom.

Right. But I would say that it's funny. You're absolutely right. We're not allowed to be happy because every time I talk about how I'm obsessed with my husband or how glowing stories about my kids, I kind of do always have to put in, like, it's not perfect, but it's kind of perfect. And I don't feel like I can say that, because you're not supposed to say that. You're like, your husband really does it for you, and he's amazing. And I don't understand the stories that I hear about husbands that don't participate in family life. And it is depressing that women I don't know, have moved away from wanting to have kids. I think that it's funny, you get so many of these stories where the woman's like, I never heard about how hard having children would be. That's all I ever heard. That's all I ever knew. I had no idea how good it was going to be. That was completely a mystery to me, the fact that you were going to enjoy even the tough times with them. And it's just sad that they're giving up their own ability to have a family and their own kind of just a happy path for themselves, because they're being convinced by outside influences that it's better for them not to have kids and not to get married.

And the man doesn't always take out the dishes out of the dishwasher. And he's the worst. I never get together with my friends and talk smack about my husband. That is just not something I do. And the idea of writing a whole piece about how he's trash is just wild to me. The fact that they are not getting divorced is impressive. I hope that they figure it out. I hope they figure it out and make their marriage work. Another viral piece recently was by this. Not a piece, but she has a book, the polyamory. Brooklyn mom wrote this whole book about her own miserable marriage and how she doesn't want to be in an open marriage, but her actually terrible husband keeps pushing her into it. And all of the outlets kind of covered it. Like, look at this funky open marriage they're having. It's like this new thing that people do now. And if you've read it, it was like, he's forcing her to have sex with other people. You guys used to be opposed to this kind of thing, and now it's like, polyamory is cool, and therefore you're not going to mention the fact that the husband is literally pressuring his wife to have sex with other men.

And that's supposed to be okay? We're just in a really topsy turvy world.

Can I ask you, Bethany, you said people on the right make motherhood look bad, too. Because I found it agree both ways. I found people who made marriage and motherhood look. There's like the left sex in the city generation. Becoming a wife and having kids is like, disgusting, and you're not going to have a fabulous life. And then on the right, it's like, unless you have gotten married, when you're 20 and you're a trad wife, and you're just like, just focusing on that which no one here is doing because everyone has a career here. That you're, like, doing something wrong. And I don't understand why everything is so extreme on both sides.

Yeah. And it's funny because I am in many ways, like the definition of these tradwives. I have six kids. I home school. I really like baking bread. I bread until my sourdough starter died.

Recently of blessed memory.

So I hit all of these notes. But so many of these tradwife influencers, first of all, they have help. That's why businesses look the way they do, because they have a lot of money and a lot of help. But they want women to completely rewind 80 years and define themselves only in terms of their relationships, their motherhood, their wifehood, whatever that. I don't understand why it has to be these extremes, but I should stop because it drives me crazy. But I follow these tradwife influencers who are making cereal from scratch.

Okay, I know. What is that?

I'm like, why are you doing that? If you don't like Cheerios, then just have yogurt and you can make yogurt. I make yogurt. It's delicious. It doesn't have to be this extravaganza of showing off how trad you are. You can do things. And I think that this is a problem in our conversations about motherhood as well, because you're either formula feeding or you're breastfeeding, and no one tells you. Like, these are the things they never tell you. They never tell you. You can do both. My best feeding experience with all six of my children was with my third, and he was 50 50, 60 40 formula and breast milk. And I went to your wedding, Megan, because of that, because I could leave him overnight with my cousins at like five months old and be like, here's some formula. And I had freedom with him that I didn't have with any of my other babies. And it was because I could give him a bottle. And I desperately wish my other babies would have taken a bottle. No one would. But there is the possibility of being 50 50. You can work part time, you can breastfeed part time, you can bake your bread sometimes, and sometimes you can instacart it.

But that's not a thing that is talked about in mainstream mommy chatter. But that's the experience of 95% of us. There's only like 5% of crazies on one end of the spectrum or the other who are like, barefoot in the kitchen baking bread for their 15 children. Or, I mean, I don't know, what's the. Or Emily Goulds like. She's the other end of the spectrum.

I was going to just say that my concern from the right is actually men arguing that men don't need to get married or have children. And to me, that's become sort of the crazy thing that I hear on the right now. I don't really hear on the right. I guess the tradwife thing exists. But the concern for me is that men are just, they're listening to the Tates or whatever his name is of the world, and they're saying that this marriage thing is basically a scam by women and why should no point to have kids. And I don't know, it almost feels like a leftist op to me because how are you giving up your birthright and how are you giving up having kids? For what? Because you were told that women are gold diggers and all we want is take advantage of you. It's crazy to me, and I hear this a lot now from men on the right.

Yeah. I wish there were more, like, in the commentary space. And I don't mean commentary magazine. I just mean, like, male commentators. They seem to be very extreme. I actually find women to be a lot more nuanced. And they're all doing like, can there be a little more normalcy? I actually think Seth talks about it very well on the commentary magazine podcast, though, Bethany. But I do want to move on just because I know there's more stuff to talk about other than motherhood. I just thought you guys were good to talk about because of your book. With that, you both mentioned that you're both jewish. This has been a very intense, trying, awful time since October for Jewish Americans, for Jews all over the planet, but obviously for Jewish Americans as well. My husband had to take my daughter to the pediatrician two weeks ago, and he was very late because they were pro Palestine protesters outside of Anthony Blinken's house. And that's very close to our pediatrician. And I was like, I'm so sick of this shit. I'm so sick of this shit. I'm so sick of these dumb protesters. I'm so sick of the pro Palestine people.

It's so dripping in anti semitism and all of it. There's signs from the river to the sea. What has it been like for you guys recently? Because I don't feel safe in the spaces with the protesters anywhere. And I'm not jewish, obviously.

We would welcome you.

Just, I'm just pro Israel, but how has it been for you? I mean, Bethany knows. I saw her at my Halloween party. I've been very worried about so many of my friends and just people in general that I know. How are you guys doing? Mixed.

I feel very comfortable physically. In South Florida, we got armed after October 7, something we always meant to do, but now we're taking very seriously and we go shooting a lot and learning how to use our weapons and we've gotten to where we understand that nobody's coming to save us and all of that. But I have to tell you, Megan, I yelled at this jewish organization today because they had a, I'm not going to name them, but they had a ceasefire Democrat speak to the bunch of jewish teenagers. And they were like, but we had Megan McCain too.

Are you talking about.

Talking about.

Yeah, the one I just spoke at.

Yeah.

Who was it?

Congressman Frost from Florida. He called for a ceasefire a few days after October 7. Like a few days after, not even like into November.

I just spoke by myself and with Josh Molina. But anyway.

Sorry.

Yeah, that's crazy. Actually.

They used you as. No, we really do have good voices too, but that just didn't really make me. Obviously, I was very happy that you spoke to them. But I don't know why jewish organizations feel the need to include people like the congressman who clearly don't care about Israel, even though they're a pro Israel organization, et cetera. So that's been my challenge, kind of making these jewish organizations realize who their friends are, who their friends are not anymore. I'm a secular jew. I'm not orthodox. That's another difference between Bethany and me. So I see a lot more in secular jewish world of, they're all still fairly on the left, but they realize that their friends on the left are not pro Israel and they're not sure how to navigate it. And I am, a, helping them navigate it, but b, making sure that they face.

I mean, our lives really changed in a really big way. I think the biggest was Seth started at commentary. He was very happy working at the Washington examiner magazine. He had built that magazine from scratch. And John asked him in the days after October 7, do you want to work here and just cover only anti semitism in Ona Israel? And I was like, yes. He said yes because it really hit home for us. I think October 7 was traumatizing in itself, but I think equally traumatizing was watching the good people, quote unquote, the good people excuse and ignore. There's still a baby and a four year old being held hostage who are completely unaccounted for. There's an american man. I'm wearing the number 138 in my shirt, 138 days. Then an american 20 year old kid named Hirsch Goldberg Poland, who should be a household name here. He was at a music festival and had his arm at the till the elbow blown off by a grenade. He was thrown into a truck, driven into Gaza, and we've never heard a peep out of him again. And his parents are losing their minds. And I was laying in bed last night thinking about my boys, my four boys, and thinking, what if that's just the last picture I have?

And that's just it. And I don't know where he is. And what are they hoping? Are they hoping he comes back? Or are they hoping that they shot him in the head? That, like, this is mind blowing, that these american parents who happen to be living in Jerusalem are feeling about their boy who just wanted to go to a freaking music festival. Like, he just wanted to dance with his friends? And the good people have said nothing about Hirsch Goldberg Poland. They've said nothing about a one year old boy who turned one in Gaza, kafir bebos. Like, where are they? All they can talk about is a legitimate humanitarian crisis in Gaza. I'm not discounting that there is a humanitarian crisis, but let's talk about why that crisis exists, and you cannot do one without the other. And so, like Dave Matthews, total fricking schmuck has hyper focused on Gaza for the last several months, and then he sort of threw in. Oh, well, that. What happened at that festival, that was terrible. I'm sorry. Screw. Like, we're not. What abouting this? People invaded a sovereign country and systematically slaughtered people in the most grotesque way as possible.

And there are good people in this country calling that resistance. I'm going to curse because you cursed. Go fuck yourselves like this.

We curse all the time.

I don't understand it.

No, I agree. And I think that what's been weird for me is that all of us have been through so many activist moments over the past four years, and to see the abject silence on the beheading of jewish babies, the burning of jewish babies, the raping of women in the street, and you can see the videos of the woman's bloody pants. What more evidence do you. I was. How I was raised. And it's funny, at the event you were talking about, I was talking about that this weekend, that where I come from in Phoenix, Arizona, being anti semitic is, like, disgusting. Because most people where I'm from are conservative, republican, big military families, and there's an innate understanding that we're a Judeo christian nation and we have to support our jewish brothers and sisters in the same way that they support us. And we are together and aligned morally, spiritually, religiously, and then just as Americans. And I don't understand where that has evaporated to, because, again, where I'm from, you don't fucking do this kind of thing and you don't talk like this and you don't do. What about isms in this way? And I think what's been so shocking to me is just seeing sort of how far gone we are from the place as Americans that I thought we were when, like you said, people like Dave Matthews really feel no shame.

Speaking of Taylor Swift, her ex boyfriend, who people don't like anyway, because she's just wrote a hate album about him. He signed a ceasefire thing, and I was like, fuck Joe Alwyn. Same thing. Yeah. So, like, I don't know, just at.

The same time, scooter Braun, who, you know, hates, and he bought her music, I'm like, he's been incredible. And I'm just, hmm. Second look at Scooter Braun. I don't know, maybe Taylor's wrong.

Do you think there's any coming out of this? Because, like I said, there's just been so many people in media and just the world in general who, to me, have really shown their ass on who they are? Or do you think it's just as simple as anti Semitism is alive and well and strong in the west in a way that I didn't really know until October 7.

I've been writing about antisemitism and how bad it's getting for a long time. So one of the things to me was, in Brooklyn, there were these violent attacks on orthodox Jews. It got to where it was happening every single day, and no one cared. No one cared. Not even secular Jews cared, which was actually the worst part for me. I, at the time, was living in Park Slope, belonged to a very far left synagogue because that was like, the one that was close to our house, and they would have marched in the streets had any other group been beaten, but because it was their own, because it was orthodox Jews, they didn't care. And to me, that was really the alarm bell. And so it's been bad for a long time. I think October 7 exposed a lot of the bad things. I would say it also exposed a lot of the good things. I think we have a lot of people like you, Megan, who are amazing and so fantastic to us and we really appreciate it. And I want you to know that.

Well, I appreciate you saying that, but it makes me feel uncomfortable when people say things like that to me because I'm like, didn't I want to have just like a baseline education in 7th grade when you did, like holocaust education? Watch Schindler's list. Come on, you guys.

I mean, that's part of why I'm running for school board, because the answer is no.

Wild. Like wild.

The education is not great, Bob. It's not.

Yeah.

I'm going to have to say thank you too, because so many people, by the way, I don't pass it along because I don't want to be annoying, but so many people text me all the time. I know you're friends with Megan McCain. Can you just say thank you?

And I'm like, thank you.

And I don't pass it along. Don't tell them. But I get those messages a lot.

It's not just I said I really, I had a great education growing up. I know the difference between right and wrong. And I really give it up to my parents. That's my parents. I'll give it and I will say one of the things I also talked about is my dad's best friend is an orthodox jewish man. So I just happened to be around of a lot of traditions. And being around jewish families was not something that was unusual. It was just like part of my normal. So I think that has like illuminated because people always ask and I'm like, it just wasn't. I never even thought about the difference between a kosher meal and a non kosher meal or anything because I just had done Seder so many times with the Liebermans and I just didn't think about it. And now I'm like my, like I totally took for granted, took for granted the kind of life experience I had. Now my challenge is to make sure my kids have the same thing because it's even a bigger threat now than it was when I was growing up. Anyway, come be Floridian. Well, is there anything else you guys want to add as we close out this interview?

I really love speaking to both of you. I'm just such big fans of both your work. I think you both do just like the Lord's work in the city of Satan. It's so hard to do the kind of stuff you do. People are so fucking nasty and so mean and so intense and everybody has to stick together. I don't know, is there anything else you want to close out on in any way? And I wanted to ask you about the border, Carol, but I guess we ran out of time. Just tell me something quick about your trip to the border. I know we're on time.

Walls are pointless, and you can literally walk around them. There's three walls at the border. None of them are holding back anything. It's policy that needs to be changed, and I don't see the appetite for changing policy. And so we're in big trouble.

My God. Okay. Is there anything positive either of you want to share?

I will.

Okay.

So we talked a lot about motherhood this episode, and I think the number one problem that american mothers and I think maybe western mothers, but I'll just cycle back and say american because that's where my expertise is. The number one problem that we have is that we care too much what other people think. And you just have to stop. You have to stop caring what people think, what people say, like, do right by you, do right by your kids, and you're probably fine. And if you're not, who cares?

Yeah, that's really good advice, actually. I don't care what anybody thinks of me anymore. I think. Yes. Well, you guys can pick up Bethany and Carol's book called Stolen Youth. It's very, very good. I know it's been out for a, you know, whatever. And Bethany is a candidate for Montgomery County, Maryland Board of Education. So if you are in Montgomery county and can vote for her, please do. And you can follow Carol's New York Post column anywhere. You get the New York Post and her podcast, the Carol Markowitz show podcast, which is wonderful as well. And thank you guys so much for coming on. It really is such a pleasure.

Thanks so much.

Welcome back to Megan McCain has entered the chat. We are back with one of our favorites, Mo Kelly. You know him as the radio and television commentator and host of the weeknight show later with Mo Kelly on KFI, am 640 and everywhere on iHeartradio. Mo, thank you so much for joining me yet again. Last night. I was thinking about what I wanted to ask you, and I was just so happy that I was going to have someone that I love talking to on the show today. Not that I don't love talking to anyone, but I don't know everybody who's on the show as guests sometimes. So was nice to have a friend and smart colleague back on. Thank you.

I am overjoyed at the opportunity. I love talking to you. I love dialoguing with you. I wish we would do it more often.

Honestly, I agree. I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Miranda and Kara and I have been going through our favorites because we want to start doing just like regulars because the audience seems to like it, too. And I was like Mo Kelly at the top of that list easily. And this is what I love about you, is I can really talk about anything, any topic in the world. You are a great person to give analysis on, but you love politics and the news climate as much as I do. And I actually just wanted to start with, I was on Twitter last night, and I saw that the Senate debate happened last night for Diane Feinstein's old seat. You are Los Angeles based. It was Adam Schiff versus Katie Porter, among other things. I guess. Adam Schiff criticized Porter's purity test for the democratic party, which is interesting because it's kind of a knock at her progressivism. How do you feel about your senate race? Who do you think is going to win? Did you watch the debate and do you think that Adam Schiff is maybe trying to moderate even a little bit?

There's a lot in there. Let me just first say I expect Adam Schiff to win. He is the person who has the biggest name recognition, and I think that goes back to his time trying to impeach Donald Trump. So people are more familiar with him. Whether you like or loathe his politics, people know who he is. Katie Porter is much less known in the sense of being on the national scene or even the statewide scene. She is in a mostly red district, believe it or not. She pierced the red curtain, as it were, in Orange county. So she has a very mixed base, which may work against her in a race like this. The debate last night, I would say, was par for the political course because Adam Schiff is making a political calculation. He needs to separate himself from Katie Porter. And Katie Porter is trying to make up ground on him because in California, you have this jungle primary on March 5, people will go to the polls and they will select their choice. But the top two get to go to the general election. The political calculation is you're trying to make sure that you're in that top two, and it may or may not be two Democrats.

Katie Porter right now is neck and neck with Steve Garvey, the leading republican candidate. So she needs to cut into Adam Schiff's lead to get more democratic support because all the Republicans are going to be voting for Steve Garvey, most likely. So she's trying to make sure that she's in the top two and part of that is trying to chip away at Adam Schiff.

I'm actually surprised that Garvey is doing as well as he is. I saw another article that just came across my transom yesterday that was talking about the state budget crisis in California and that watchdogs are warning that the deficit is actually going to reach up to $73 billion in debt. This is at the same time that since 2020, the state has lost a record of 700,000 residents according to the state census data. Do you think that all of this is sort of combining with. I'm surprised to hear that the Republican is coming in second. Do you think people would actually take a risk on a republican senator? I find that very hard to believe because it's such a blue state. But do you think it's maybe impacting Katie Porter? I think of her as very progressive.

She is. And the math is good for Steve Garvey in the primaries. Bad for him in the general. Good in the sense that he's going to get the republican support in the primary so he's not fighting against anyone else. And if he can coalesce all republican support behind him, he will likely be one of the two top finishers. Bad in the general election because in California, to your point, Democrats plus independents outnumber registered Republicans more than two to one. The math is not there for Steve Garvey. It makes it very difficult. Now, personally, I don't think he's a very good candidate. I think the Republicans could have put up someone who was better, more familiar with the issues, could articulate the issues. There's plenty wrong with California. But I don't know if Steve Garvey has done a good job of articulating a lot of the solutions or the conservative answers to the progressives in the state. I think he will be in the top two. I wouldn't be surprised if he were for the primary. It's going to be very difficult in the general election. Just math?

Yeah. I mean, that's a really interesting insight. I didn't actually know that about two to one about independence and Democrats. I have to ask you, like in the same vein, obviously the South Carolina primary is coming up this upcoming Saturday. Nikki Haley is still in the race, which I'm fine with her staying in the race because it's her right as someone running for office. But some of the recent polling has Trump up by 30 something points in her home state. Do you care? Normally I love primaries and I love primary nights. I normally have parties like if you were still living here in DC. I would invite you over to watch polling, but it seems kind of pointless right now because it's just like two man race between Biden and Trump. Do you care about New Hampshire or South Carolina primary? And do you care about Nikki still being in the race?

No. Those are all great questions. And big picture is probably not going to make a difference. My political nerd picture, I think it could make a difference in this way. Hear me out. We know that a lot of these contests are not winner take all delegates. I suspect that Nikki Haley is staying in the race. So she could say possibly, presumably, if it were to get to the convention. I have x amount of delegates under my name that she can use to broker or withhold in the event that something should happen to Donald Trump, to throw his candidacy into question where she has actually more standing. Let's be honest, Donald Trump is 77. There could be a health incident tomorrow. I think there's more chance of a health incident incident than a legal incident because we see the trajectory of those cases. They're moving so slowly. But I think she's hanging around as someone who could be a power broker come the convention, not an outright winner.

Do you think Trump put out a really nasty statement about her that was basically like, as soon as he becomes the nominee, she's going to get on her knees and beg to be a part of his administration? I think it was maybe even a little more graphic than what I said. It was kind of like a gross statement.

More graphic. Yes, I saw it.

So I think it had some sexual innuendo. Not to be, like, disgusting for our listeners. It's a family show, but it was a pretty nasty comment. Do you think she's just going to do that? I mean, it's interesting to hear Trump talking about who he's considering for vice president. He said Ron DeSantis, Vivek Ramiswami, Christy Noam, Byron Donald, Tim Scott and Tulsi Gabbard. Do you think Nikki Haley is just going to rush up on the stage and, I don't know, support him after all this?

I would hope not. But then you have people like Senator Ted Cruz or Lindsey Graham who turned around, didn't about face after running for president, and kissed that brass ring, even though there were so many personal insults of family members of the candidate himself. I don't think that she would. But given recent history, I would not be surprised she did serve in his administration. We've seen politicians running for president do that about face. We've seen the pointed criticism kind of just disappear after the candidacies disappear. Tim Scott did not do that. Vivek Ramaswami obviously did not do that. So there was an easier transition for those individuals. But Nikki Haley, I don't know if she would be able to rationalize the cognitive dissonance, to be able to be so pointed in her criticism today and then turn around and endorse him. I'm just talking about endorsing, not even be a part of his campaign, but to endorse him, that's a huge leap. I would hope that she wouldn't and she would stand on principle that we can believe what she's saying now and not just later.

Yeah, yeah. Just for personal, like you said, personal reasons alone. As I just mentioned, Trump did a town hall on Fox News last night where he named all those people as his possible running mates. I think if I have to have a Trump Vivek Ramaswami presidency, I'm going to have to leave earth. I don't know what I'm going to do because I think Vivek Ramaswami is just such a goof, and nothing about him comes across authentic or real to me. Do you think any of these people help him? I was actually surprised that he is okay with the idea of Ron DeSantis. Does any of this matter? This is literally the least exciting election of my lifetime, and it's hard to even feign some semblance of interest or anything for these people. No offense.

You understand this better than most conventional wisdom is you want your running mate to offer a constituency, be it geographical, demographical, that the person at the top of the ticket does not have. Some people may call it identity politics. I just call it politics. If you should nominate a woman to be your VP pick or someone who's african american, there is a strategy to that. To your point, with Vivette Ramaswami, I don't know what he gains. And I think that there has been a ceiling, which has been demonstrated with the MAGA base. You're going to get your 35% to 40%, and then it comes down to those battleground states, and you can duke it out, but it makes it very difficult to win a general election with just the base. And if former President Trump should choose someone who's as MAGA as he is or MAGA light, I don't know if that gains him anything, but that's conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom would have said a candidate like Donald Trump could never get near the Oval Office a second time, but he has a very distinct possibility of winning.

Well, on that note, I haven't had a chance to talk to you since this DOJ report came out that just sent shockwaves all over political news that President Biden is in cognitive decline. They basically said in this report that he has no memory of things such as when he was vice president and his son Bo's death. Obviously, we all saw the press conference with President Biden reacting very emotionally and very angrily and then mixing up the president of Egypt and I believe, Mexico. Thank you. Their names. What was your response to that? Because some, I know you're an independent, but democrats seem to be saying it's like a witch hunt, know a Trump person and that it's unfair. And then people on the right are, he's, he's know he can't function at all. He's brain dead. What was your reaction to that?

I say this as an independent, and my democratic friends were very angry at me for taking the initial stance that I did. And if you follow me on threads at Mr. Mo Kelly, I put it up there just as soon as the report dropped that this was damning in nature, if only because it put in print and from the Department of Justice, it legitimized concerns that many people had, and I think rightfully so, fairly so, about the cognitive state of the president. I said last time I was with you, and I'll say it again. Even if you believe that Joe Biden is 100% on this day, I think it's unrealistic to believe that he would be 100% come 2029, when that would be the end of his second term. That report for me was damning. No prosecutor her is not a doctor. But I think we can look at someone and see if they're not functioning at 100% or not at a high level. It's something that the Democrats can try to spin, but it is a fair conversation to have and it's a fair concern. I would be surprised if we continue on this trajectory because there are going to be more gasps, there are going to be more problems.

There probably will be more falls on Air Force one. This is not a problem that is going to go away. It's going to exacerbate itself because he is getting older. It is a realistic conversation that we got to have. And I don't know if he's 100%. I know that he does stutter. I know that he's had problems with speech, and I'm not conflating the two. But I do also know that I can listen to his speeches five years ago and compare that to how he's performing in an oratory sense today. There is a marked difference. Democrats can't run from that. I don't know if they can run from that. I remain of the opinion that the only person that Donald Trump can beat is Joe Biden.

No, I agree with that. And I also feel mo, you and I are like, we're not always aligned on politics, but I think you know me in the sense that, you know, that it would be morally, ethically, and politically impossible for me to vote for Trump for a host of reasons that are political and personal. And I can't vote for Biden either, that are both political and personal. And I would love to vote for Biden, given the opportunity, but he has shown himself to be much more progressive, not anything like the candidate I thought he would be. I'm either, like, not voting or I'm going to write in. I don't know. I mean, I'd vote down ballot, but not in. And I was talking to a friend of mine who works in politics who is a really staunch defender of Biden. And he was like, his staff isn't putting him out enough. He needs to be out more. And this is all just like a witch hunt from people in the media who are out to get him. And I was trying to gracefully say, like, well, then why didn't he do the Super bowl interview?

Like, if this is just about him not doing interviews, why didn't he do the biggest audience on the. And by the, like, apparently the biggest Super bowl that ever happened because of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey? Me? Do you think that this is just, like, a tactical error on the part of his staff? Because I've been trying to get into the mindset of people on the left because I know what I'm seeing. You know what you're seeing? I'm not a doctor, but I am a human being who's had grandparents that have declined. Why do you think there's sort of this hesitancy to even just talk about the fact that this is a real issue?

This is something that I do credit. Donald Trump, in his first run, he took advantage of every opportunity to be seen and to be heard. There used to be a time where they didn't allow presidential interviews as far as call ins. They allowed Donald Trump to do that, and he took full advantage of that. I don't understand. I put it this way. I've not heard a good enough reason for why President Joe Biden is not as visible and audible as possible, if only because he is campaigning to become president. Again, we talk about the deficiencies of Democrats and messaging. Well, who better to extol the virtues of the Democrats than the titular head of the party, the sitting president of the United States? Why would you not sit down on the Super Bowl Sunday at halftime and speak to 150,000,000 people about all your legislative accomplishments, all your legislative goals for your proposed second term? That, to me, as they say, that dog don't hunt. It doesn't make sense that you would turn away from that. So that tells me that the party is at least aware of perception and is concerned with the possibility of him making a major mistake on a major platform.

Or, know, what's interesting to me is that with all the criticism and data polling that we've seen on President Biden, Vice President Harris's is worse, especially among, I guess, african american voters and women, which is really fascinating to me. I have found her to be someone who, from just what I can tell, someone who has been media strategized in an inch of her life and then got in her head and chokes every time she's on camera, because I've been told by people who have covered her that behind the scenes she's actually not this person that comes across on television and the press. Is she in any way someone who could, I don't know, help herself, fix her polling numbers? She was your senator for a brief period of time. Kamala Harris is just like one of the more fascinating and tragic figures, I think, in modern politics. From my perspective, it's a complicated discussion.

I think there are historical reasons and there are also political reasons why she has not grown in the position as people originally thought she would have. Historically, we ask more of a vice president than maybe when Dan Quail was vice president. We're expecting him or her to be more visible, be more active, take a more prominent role in an administration. We saw that with Mike Pence. We're seeing that with Kamala Harris. And so the expectations are just different. I don't believe Vice President Harris did herself any favors in that role in the way that she handled it. Part of it could be the instruction that she's getting, and maybe she's just getting bad advice. But then when she's out there by herself, she hasn't done anything to endear America. And I'm saying this very respectfully to the idea that she would be the next president because the Democrats plan originally was, okay, Joe Biden, we need you at least as a stopgap to deal with Donald Trump. Then we would have, presumably, Madam vice president, then ascend to the Oval Office. Then you have Joe Biden say, you know what? I think I want a second term.

And then Kamala Harris say, you know what? I don't think I'm ready to be president in so many words and ways. And the plan back in 2020 has not panned out in the way that I think anyone expected. I believe that Vice President Harris has underperformed. Joe Biden has said, I want my place in history. I'm not going to be a stopgap. And that's changed the calculus for everyone in this election. And I'm disappointed because I thought that it would have translated better, and it has not. And I'm not even a Harris supporter. I couldn't even get her to come on my show when she was running for president originally.

That's weird.

She seemed to be ducking outlets. And I don't like that because that says to know you're not ready for prime time.

Also, do home state like, hello, that's like class one. I mean, not to toot my own horn, but I'm doing a local Arizona radio interview this evening because I'm still maintaining friendships and relationships because local, your home state process, so important. And I'm not a politician, but that shocks me. You're also like a household name. Okay.

I would just say KfI, number one news talk station in America. You might want that. Free press.

Yeah.

And she declined it. So that said something to me. It's like, okay, there's a concern about having her in certain situations, which I think has played itself out on the world stage since.

Do you think it's because her team knew that if she went on your show, you're not just going to give her a pass and you would have asked her questions? Because I think there's like, when I talk to people who are interested in politics or candidates, I don't think you get to become elected to anything. If you can't do interviews with the fourth estate, your job is to ask challenging questions. Their job is to answer it. And everyone has just become such a daisy about everything. Like, you're not supposed to be challenged. It's so strange. And look where she's at. She's not seasoned enough.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong. I've always thought that campaign staff was supposed to protect and promote, protect them from the truly dangerous things, but also make sure that they're promoting the candidate and putting them in positions that they need to succeed in and could succeed in. Yes, I would have asked real questions but so would have other media outlets, especially if you're then running for president or going to be a part of the ticket. I had heard from a number of strategists that Kamala Harris was not quite ready. In other words, she ran for president too early. She was not ready for the national stage. She needed more seasoning. And unfortunately, and I know you know this, after a certain point, people make their minds up about you. People will feel their way about you as a politician or an elected official, and it's almost impossible to change that thought.

No, I agree. I also think I, Nikki Hilley recently went on a breakfast club and I thought it was really ballsy, something she should have done a while ago. And I think everyone knows what that show is. That popular radio show that's obviously the host is left leaning. I actually think once in a while, and you're not this person, but you should walk into the fire and show people that you can handle the heat. And I just don't understand why you wouldn't be doing news interviews in your home state. But I think it shows that she wasn't ready and she isn't ready. And all of that to circle back to the Biden White House is in a little bit of a cluster right now. So much so that I know you have heard these rumors in your neck of the woods in California and your media circles. I've heard it in my neck of the woods in my media circles here in DC, that there's this strong rumor that somehow the sky is going to open up and Michelle Obama, our former first lady who has some of the highest approval ratings in all of political, everything of any modern political media figure is going to come in and somehow become president at the convention, that she's going to be nominated and Biden is going to step down.

I originally thought this was just like a weird fantasy, but honestly, the drumbeats are so loud on this, serious people are talking to me about it, not just gossip, people on page six. What do you make of that rumor, and do you think there's any reality to it?

I would bet the house against it. From every public statement that I've heard of Michelle Obama, when she was even just Senator Obama's wife, she basically detested politics. She did not like it. She was not even all the way emotionally in as far as supporting Barack Obama throughout his political career because it had stalled and she was wondering if it was worth it. And she was very vocal about her distaste for the time in the White House, the scrutiny, the negativity I don't see a scenario where she would leave her private life at this point when she's never been a politician at all, to then step back into the fire and take the slings and arrows that she saw her husband take, but then be the center of that attention and have to take the party and the country and put it on her back at the last moment where she's really never done any campaigning. Could she get the nomination if she wanted to? Absolutely. Could she win? I don't know, but I don't see anything that suggests that she wants to do it. I would more believe it would be Gavin Newsom, if only because he's been shadow campaigning since the beginning.

He's coming from California, so there is already a national profile on him. He did the debate with Ron DeSantis, which was a part of his growing, his national profile. He's been fighting with high profile republicans, basically signaling to progressives that, look, I'm fighting for you, I'm speaking for you. I'm the next in line. That to me, would be more believable than Michelle Obama. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I would not put any money down on that. I have not seen anything to legitimize that.

Yeah, I feel the same way. And I was like, know is yachting and putting out hip books and looking like she's like, living a very nice lifestyle, doing very fancy. I'm like, I just don't know if she wants to do that again. That being said, I still think, again, if this fantasy happened, I think Trump would have a very hard time attacking her for a lot of different reasons. But you always have amazing poll numbers until you actually run for something. So it might change if she actually did. But again, this might just be weird rumors and all of us just sort of in political media giving ourselves something to talk about. But I keep hearing it. I keep hearing it all the time. And it's kind of a crazy world that we're in. Right know, mo, I'm feeling, know, very sort of downtrodden, pessimistic. I'm just having a hard time talking about this election the way I do any other election cycle or any other news cycle because it's so boring. It's the same two people over and over again. Trump, Biden, Trump, Biden. They're both the oldest candidates ever. They're the least popular candidates, both of them, in polling history.

How are you dealing with covering this in your show every day? How are your listeners responding to this? Because when people like us choose this, to do this for a vocation. Part of the reason I used to love it so much, and I still do, but I like the adrenaline rush of different candidates and different who's going to win? Who's going to not win. Like the horse race aspect of it, I love, and that is completely depleted right now.

Get out of my life. I usually would do a segment called race for the White House, and I would put in clips of all the candidates and what they're saying. And it doesn't have the same appeal because there aren't that many candidates. And so I tried to address it from the standpoint of cynicism and sarcasm. I'm not talking about the judgments, the multiple judgments against Donald Trump. I'm not talking about the FBI informant in regard to Joe Biden or impeachment. I'm more talking about Trump sneakers and the audacity of it all. Because it used to be where we could talk about policy and have policy disputes and talk about who might have the better immigration reform policy proposal or whether it could pass the House and talk about the machinations of the Senate and where that might go. But there's none of that now. I thought for a moment I was going to be in heaven, where there might have been an immigration reform bill which was going to pass the Senate and then be fought in the House. And it didn't get that far. We're not talking about policy. America is a one issue, single issue voter right now.

You either love Trump or you hate him, and you're going to hold your nose and vote for Joe Biden. People don't love Joe Biden. People will vote for Joe Biden because the alternative is not, you know, and.

That'S sort of the feeling I get just anecdotally. And the people who are responding to our show and just like friends in my life, and I just don't know. I think it's going to be harder and harder as this progresses forward, because in DC, and I know you know this because you used to live here, the tenor of the president dictates so much of the tone of the city. And in Trump, it was, like, chaotic and sleazy, and now it is, like, tired and depressing, and both are bad. Chaotic and sleazy and tired and depressing are both, like, things, not the environments I don't want to live in. And I think so much of it is percolated out to the rest of the country as well. This may be, like, an existential question for you, but when does this end? When will this become? And it doesn't even have to be, like, happy, but just more exciting again and more compelling, because I really feel like I'm in political purgatory right now.

I believe it comes down to what you're willing to risk. And the only way I have to make a sexual connection here, you get older and you realize that having casual sex, it may be exciting, but it's not fulfilling. And it's definitely dangerous. And as you get to be more of an adult, you make an adult decision about how you're going to make your life decisions. And I think we're at that point where America's deciding, are we going to be the grown up and do what we think may be safe or boring? And it's not necessarily what we want, but we know that we're not going to go off a cliff, per se, or are we going to do the thing which brings more excitement into our lives and keeps us talking and maybe even more gratifying, but definitely more dangerous. There are other things to consider. If you talk about Trump and NATO or just world issues, or what you feel about where we are in our world standing. And I know that I think people are generally tired, exhausted of the Trump era in reporting it and understanding it, trying to figure out what's going to happen.

I suspect that that's going to impact turnout. There's not going to be the same turnout for this election. Presidential can't speak for down ballot, but that's usually a reflection of what's happening at the top of the ticket. There's probably going to be a depressive, not suppressive, but depressive impact on voter turnout. And I believe that that helps Donald Trump, if you take the classic model of lower turnout, helps Republicans. But I don't know, to answer your question, when does it all end? I think this is the last election. Donald Trump is not going to be running for president in 2028.

I quit. If I have to do this again, I quit. Mo. I don't want to do this anymore. I hope so, because I don't want to do this anymore. I do want to ask you just to like what you were saying globally. My last question for you, I know you've been following this as well as the rest of the world, but the Alexei Navalny murder in Russia has really sent shockwaves, I think, globally. The headline of the drudge report this morning, before I came in to interview you said, is Putin winning question mark because he has successfully killed his greatest freedom fighting dissident and the west is kind of just being like, it's a shame. Navalny had written a letter before he died warning against a Trump re election. And I think things like that is when things get, for me, at least, get very, very real, because Putin wants to expand. It's in the realm of possibility. He could expand into Poland or the baltic states and start World War II. Like, this is real shit we're talking about here. What was your response when you heard of the Navalny poisoning? And do you think that will have an impact on the way people are voting as well?

Well, two things. There's the Navalny poisoning, and there's also his suspicious death, which could have come any variety of ways.

I'm sorry, I meant his death. And his wife believes he was poisoned. Apologies. Sorry. To make that clear.

That's okay.

To answer your question, yes, Putin is winning, because Putin is able to forward his geopolitical goals around the world. He wanted to exert more influence. He wants to get back in the g eight and g 20. He's on the precipice of doing that. He's invaded Crimea, he's invaded Ukraine. He is a central player as far as the world issues. I'm speculating at this point, but I'm quite sure his alliance with China has been beneficial for him. He is far more relevant now than at the beginning of his presidency. He's exerted influence over what the west does and does not do. He's created dissension within America and NATO. As far as our response to his aggressions around the world. We can go back and forth as to his degree of influence on our political elections, but we can't really argue his impact on world events and the world stage. Russia was not a thing before he came into power. The dissolution of the Soviet Union, economically, was disastrous for the Soviet Union and the beginning of Russia. We all know that Putin wants to get the band back together again, and part of that is annexing these different territories, these different countries.

There's no reason to believe that you stop at the border of Ukraine, that you don't also invade Poland. And any student of history knows where that leads. He is more powerful now than ten years ago. We can argue about why that is or who is to blame, but I don't think we can argue that he is much more relevant, much more powerful, much more influential and aggressive today than ten years ago.

No, I obviously completely agree with that, and it's absolutely petrifying. Mo, I could talk to you for another hour, but I know we both have things to do, and you have to go host your show as well. Please come back again. Like I said, we're going to start really just focusing a lot on our good friends and people that we love to have on the show. It's fun to keep having regulars, and I know you have your own show. You can listen to Mo's weeknight show called later with Mo Kelly on KFIM 640 and I heart radio. Mo, you're just one of the best. Thank you so much for coming. I really, really appreciate it. I'm always grateful.

I'm always humbled to have the opportunity to come on and talk to you. Thank you for having me.

Thank you. Thank you all so much for listening to our little show today. Thank you again to all our guests, Mo, Bethany and Carol. We will be back again same time, same place on Tuesday next week, and we will be going over a result of the South Carolina primary as long as it's even a little bit interesting, and I hope you have a wonderful weekend. Thanks for listening to this episode of Megan McCain has entered the chat brought to you by Teton Ridge. I am your host and executive producer, Megan McCain. Additional executive producers are Miranda Wilkins, Eric Spiegelman and Wynn Weigel. Our supervisor, rising producer is Olivia DiCapoulos. Our senior guest producer is Kara Kaplan and associate producer Austin Goodman.