So we just had this team meeting, and we were talking about the podcast episodes we're going to tape this week. And one of the topics was the subject of how to not give a shit, like the art of not giving a shit about things that don't matter. And somebody chimed in in our team meeting, Well, Mel, you don't give a shit about a lot of things. I'm like, Really? Yeah. Last week in L. A, Oh, my God, you were out of control. I'm like, What? What do you mean? What did I do? And so welcome to an impromptu episode. I have dragged Christine, our COO and CFO here. I've got Jesse who runs video and video production. I've got Amy, who is one of our senior members of the team and a senior producer. We have Cameron, who is also a producer on our team. And by the way, we've got a gazillion other people that we would have dragged here, but we got a lot of other stuff we need to do for you. And these guys really had a lot of examples about how yours truly was acting out of control last week, like literally give zero shits.

I don't know what the examples are. I said, Guys, let's just jump on Zoom and let's just lay it on me. And then once I respond to.

Their.

Evidence proving to you that I give no shits, I'm going to give you my four rules. The four rules for how you two can learn how to not give a shit. And we're going to give you two simple things you can start doing at the end of the episode so that you can practice this. All right, who wants to go first? What did I do last week, you guys? I'm sitting here going, What the hell did I do? I thought it was a great trip. I mean, is not giving a shit really a bad thing? I personally think it's the secret to life.

It's a great thing, but it's shocking when you do it, I think. Really? Especially the way you do it sometimes. Mel.

Okay, this is Amy, one of our senior producers on the show.

Hi, everybody.

Okay, laying on me. What did I do last week in Los Angeles that was shocking?

Well, first thing is we were having a team meeting outside. We needed to get a little sun, and you needed to get maybe a little more sun than everybody else desired to get. Do you want to.

Take it from here.

Christine, to talk about the outfit and.

The attitude? You better set the table. Where were we? And what do you mean? We needed more sun.

We were outside for... And Mel and I are from Vermont and Christine's from Chicago. So we're all a little pasty and somewhat translucent, as you say Mel, at this point, it's early spring, and we haven't seen the sun in a long time. So we were in L. A. Outside at the cafe and the hotel that we were staying at, and there was a lot of sunshine, and we were all soaking it up and loving it. You were, too, right Mel?

Yes. You were loving that.

And then it got a little hot, and everybody else thought like, Let's get out of the sun. Mel thought, Let's just take our shirts off. That makes it sound worse than it was. But that is, I think maybe one of the things that you said, I'm just going to take my shirt off. Now you had a shirt on underneath. Thank God.

No, I had skims, brand new. This is not an ad. But I did buy skims for the first time. I bought a body suit. And I do have to give skims a thumbs up. It was a tank top body suit that had a thong back, but the thong was quite wide, so it did not operate like dental floss of my rear end, which I also think I explained to all of you as I pulled my T-shirt off and revealed the fact that I was wearing a medium compression tank top thong body suit with my jeans. That basically looks like a bathing suit.

Yeah. No, it looked.

Like a bathing suit. I see through.

Bathing suit. See through.

But I think it didn't stop there, right, Christine? It was like, okay, so she had the top on, and then- She had.

The top on, but I could see her nipples. So I'm like, that felt like an HR violation to have the team there. And you were totally down with it. I'm like, okay, can we... You're like, oh, I'll put my T-shirt over. And so you tucked the T-shirt you're wearing into the top of the body suit so that it was just like across your chest.

It was like a chest.

Apron.

Is what it was. I was covering the top. So it was like a drapery across. I was using an opaque chocolate brown, skims T-shirt, and I took that off and I was wearing a nude body suit. So it didn't exactly look like a bathing suit. It looked like a nude body suit, meaning nude color, not nude. And then I put the T-shirt, it was not long sleeve, otherwise I would have tied it around my boob. And instead, I just tucked it into the front like a boob. And I covered my nipples so that I could get some sun, and it was not an HR violation in front of the four women that were sitting at the table.

Right. Now what was so.

Shocking about that? Because I have to say, there was a pool that was approximately 40 yards from us. We are on the same... We are technically on a pool deck in the restaurant area.

And.

Then Christine, for those of you that are listening to this, I want to tell you this may be one of those episodes that you do, after you're done listening, want to check out on YouTube, because we do film all our episodes, and we will be putting up photos. Because Christine did take a photo of me. And can I see it? I haven't seen it. Can I see it? Is it really bad?

I mean, it's pretty bad.

It's pretty bad. It's not flattering.

Pat, will you pass me my phone? Okay, this is ugly, but mainly because I have a really bad farmer's tan, and I'm starting to get sunburn on my arms and the undercarriage of my arms. One of those muscles that we do this with? Triceps. The triceps are really flabby and white. So the tan is not uniform. In fact, it's not even coming in yet. But it's appropriate. I mean, it looks like a shirt tucked into a bra. That is what it looks like. Okay, so that's number one. And you're right, I didn't give a shit. I sat there, I got my son. And then when we move back into the shade, I put my shirt on. Okay, was that the shocking example? Yeah, man, I think that's pretty shocking.

I think it's pretty shocking to not just stop at the fact that you're not wearing a bathing suit, or stop at the fact that your nipples are showing, or stop at the fact that you're tucking a shirt into your camusole. What even is that? Or stop at the fact that you don't have sunscreen on. There were a lot of moments I think many people would have heated the stop sign or at least yield a little bit, but you floored it to the- I did. -on. And you got what you wanted, and you didn't.

Give a shit. I didn't give a shit. I didn't give a shit. I'm sitting with four ladies. We're all from the Northeast. I am so pale, I'm translucent, and I needed a.

Little vitamin B.

Okay, I think I can roll with that one. What's the next example? By the way, that was Christine, who is our Chief Operating Officer. Was that an HR violation?

I'm pretty sure that in most cultures, that would be unacceptable. It's the thing. Okay.

And instead, at 1-4-3 Studios, we make a podcast episode. Okay, so what else did I do?

Okay, who has the next one?

Well, then later that day, we had a meeting scheduled with an important meeting with somebody we've never met before with Audible. And I took note of the fact they're wearing open-toed shoes, which in my previous corporate experience would not be the way you would show up for a first time meeting.

Wait, what is.

Open toe... What are you talking about? First of all, who made up a rule that you can't wear open toe shoes? I think.

In general, toes are a touchy subject. Not everybody wants to see people's feet, especially in a professional environment. Even though it was casual, it was we were meeting out for after work drink situation. But still that I intentionally packed closed toe shoes just for that meeting. You did? I did.

So can you walk me through the thinking that goes into giving a shit about closed toed? Closed toed, I can't even say it. Closed toed shoes? Covered toed. Covered toed shoes? Ballerina slipters.

Yeah. I was wearing a ballet flip because I didn't want to have show up for meeting with my toes exposed. So I left my sandals at home so that I would have appropriate footwear for a first meeting. Me, which never crossed your mind. And I noticed your toes right away, but then I didn't say anything because obviously you're the boss. You can show up however you want for those meetings.

Well, you're the boss. You run the place. I just break the rules, apparently.

So.

Never in a million years did it even cross my mind that open-toed shoes are a problem for any meeting, first of all.

I think open-toed shoes are the neck hair of the past. You know what I mean? You don't want to see neck hair, button that top button, get your toes covered up. Really?

Come on now. I've got my Birkin stocks on.

Right now.

It's in open-toed.

Shoes right now. So to make it even worse, Christine has immaculate toes. You always have a gorgeous, high gloss, bright red, polished situation going down. I not only had open toes, everybody, but I happen to have gangly situation with the pedicure, not getting them that often now in Vermont, did not have on polish, might have been shipped. But here is my thinking. I'm thinking, those aren't just open-toed shoes, bitch. Those were Valentino, wedge, Espadrils that I had bought to wear to graduation. And so I put those puppies on like a freaking Ferrari on my feet. I struttered into Soho House LA like the baller I am. And you were right behind me strutting in your Chanel ballet flats because Christine, don't you mistake that voice, everybody. I always say, Yes, Christine is the badass business bitch that says no. And so she was walking in those ballet shoes like a dumpster truck ready to do some business. And so I go striding in there. I had no idea that you glanced at my toes and you judged me.

I didn't judge you. I didn't have any idea that they were fancy shoes. All I saw was your toes. I'm like, Whatever.

Well, would it have mattered if they had been fancy? Or would you have just rolled your eyes and been like, She's just making a mistake with a couple hundred dollars instead of making it with flip flops. But she's making a mistake.

Well, again, you are you 100 % all the time. So again, I wasn't going to say anything because we were walking out the door because, of course, we were late. I was judging a little. But again, it's your meeting, your call.

Possibly with good reason.

The judging. I don't think so. See, I don't think anybody notices your feet. We know. We know you. And I don't think anybody's not going to do business with you because you have espadrils on.

I'm going to put Colin some backup here. Cameron, you worked at a law firm. Am I alone in thinking that this is a corporate no-go in some environments?

It's definitely a no-go. And also, if you have unpainted toes, I think it's a little worse.

Mel, were your toes painted?

No, they were not. They might have even had dirt on them, for all I know, because I wasn't looking down there. Because I had on also the very in fashion, bellbottom jeans. And just to make a point, this is one of the top deal makers at Audible, a person that says yes or no, somebody we have never met, and a really important meeting. And so here I am thinking, oh, yeah, I got an important meeting. I'm going to pull on my high waist to bellbottom jeans because I'm in LA. And that is what the badass bitch women boss situation. And then I'm going to pull on my expensive Valentino wedge things with the studs because, man, it shows I don't give a shit. I make money. I don't need you to say yes or no. And I'm going to breeze in there with my COO, who is always the deal maker. And we are going to wow the shit out of this thing. I didn't for a second think about my toes because I gave a shit about other things, which is killing the meeting, which I do believe I did.

You did an amazing job.

Thank you. And did I do anything else wrong in the meeting? I think so. I think I did. I think I did. I think I actually know what happened. I think I know what happened. See, I went into that meeting going, I'm not going to drink tonight because we got a big celebratory weekend, and I don't want to say anything stupid at a business meeting with somebody I've never met. And so we meet the guy. I immediately love him. Just a great guy. He's like an entrepreneur inside big organizations. He's the guy. And I can tell he is a deal maker. I can tell he just loves to be innovative. And that's exactly how we roll. And it's why we have this incredible, unprecedented relationship doing all these original projects with Audible. So he goes, Are you guys going to have something to drink? And I said, yeah, well, I think I'm just going to have a seltzer with some.

Bitters.

On ice and a wine glass with a twist doing the non-alcoholic thing.

And he's like, Oh.

I thought you like gin. And I'm like, I love gin. Let's get gin. And so now I'm in, and I go all in. And that was probably another Mel doesn't give a shit, but this is a no-no. Would you say that, Christine? Yeah, definitely.

Took the media in probably a different direction than if we would have stuck with the seltzer. I know you're trying to get us to the bitters, but I think it was a very enjoyable meeting. I think, for sure, we got to be fast friends probably quicker than otherwise.

That's true. The gin always lubricates me a little bit. I started dropping the F-bombs, which always is what happens when I drink. And it leads to a very productive business meeting. And I don't give a shit, I guess, right? I don't give a shit. Christine's smile is so tight. I wish you guys could see that. That's the smile that she gives me in meetings where she's like, You can shut.

Up now.

Let the adults take it from here. Was there anything else I did? Okay, we've taken the shirt off and tucked it into the front of my body suit. I've worn open toed shoes to a massively important business meeting. I have had maybe three gin and tonics with the person at Audible, and we had an amazing time, so much so that he then texted our literary agent to say that he was both afraid and extraordinarily excited and.

Impressed by.

What just happened. He did not, I would like to point out, mention that it was a problem, though, that Mel was wearing open-toed shoes. Just want to point that out, everybody.

Yeah, not a problem.

Anything else? That's all you got, you guys? That's it?

Well, that was Monday.

What did I do next? Yeah.

So then Tuesday, we went to a hot yoga class, which we usually do while we're in L. A. And it was a super, sweaty, hot class. But obviously, I've been to a lot of these. But I'm always amazed that no matter how terrible the look or the situation that you're generally recording a selfie on the way out about how amazing you feel coming out, which is true. It's not always easy to get there, but coming out, you always like, Hey, I'm so glad we did that. You're recording. You're going live. And this day, you really run over. You were so hot and sweaty and your signuses were bothering you. And without fail, you're recording your selfie. And I just am always impressed. And I think it really connects with people. When we're out and we're talking to people about how real you are, of how you show up at really what is truly one of your of.

Being.

Out of this class because you're hot, you're sweaty, you're just a mess. And you just are ready to go live and share that. And I think because you do that, I know other women that we run into are always feeling like, Mel makes a huge difference because I'm like, if Mel Robbins can do this with all the people that she is connecting with, then what am I worried about? And I think there's something very freeing in that. And so I'm.

Always- It's a compliment.

I think it's a.

Huge.

Compliment. Well, thank you. It is a huge compliment. But then I think it also is freeing for you, too, because I think because you do that at those worst moments, then you never really are concerned about what those other moments are, or maybe other people would feel self-conscious because you've already shared what at those moments.

So if I'm hearing you correctly, I look like absolute shit.

You did look like absolute shit. And we canwe'll pull up the post for folks so they can see exactly what we're talking about. French buddy.

Is watching on YouTube. Just to give you a visual, everybody. You know, tomatoes in high summer, August at a farmer's market. Bright, deep, opaque, shiny red. That was basically the color of my face. My hair is starting to grow out, so the roots are coming in nice and gray. And I put on my glasses and they fogged up. For all I know, I had a camelel toe. And I was walking down the sidewalk in L. A. Outside of the yoga studio, headed to my favorite coffee shop to basically get a cup of liquid, caffeine sugar. And I pulled out that phone because I thought, you know what? I did not want to go this morning. My sinuses are bothering me. I know you can relate to that. And so I just start filming. And I agree, I looked like absolute shit. But here's what I think. I walk around looking like that. So why would I be worried about putting it online? If you walk into the grocery store wearing a pair of yoga tights and your bra is showing.

Through your T-shirt.

And you're sweaty, and your hair is a mess, why do you feel bad putting a photo of yourself looking like that online? You got to stop and consider that you're okay going out in public or being around friends looking like crap because that's how we all look in real life. But somehow that's not acceptable on social media. And so it's been very liberating for me to just go, fuck it, I don't care what I look like because I walk into a grocery store looking like this. I know I look like shit. Who cares? But the public and what I look like in public is exactly what I'm willing and I think you should put on social media. Because if you don't, you're subconsciously giving a shit about your appearance. And I think that's really, as you guys keep teeing up these examples of where I'm either completely violating social norms like the no toes policy, which I was unaware of, or I am being really offensive by taking my shirt off and doing what I thought was a very polite, discreet move of covering my nipples with my T-shirt so I could get some sun because I feel depressed and translucent like a gray dolphin living here in Southern Vermont.

But I think the real liberating thing about learning how to give a shit is that you put your energy toward giving a shit towards things that matter, and you spend less time draining your energy on the shit that really doesn't matter. And one of the things that I gave up a long time ago, Christine, is worrying about what I looked like. And maybe it was because of the experience of being a commentator on CNN. Because when I was on CNN, I was on CNN, as you know, Christine, as an on-air commentator, a paid legal commentator. There were only five of us in the entire.

World.

That were on that team. And it was a really cool job analyzing some of the biggest.

Cases of.

Our time. I noticed something that whenever I would be on TV and I would have an opinion about particularly a case that people were really hot about, like.

Trayvon Martin's murder.

Or what happened in Ferguson, or Freddie gray, or Tamir Rice, and I'm a criminal defense attorney. And so I am adding in commentary as a defense attorney. I noticed that when people criticized me, they never criticized what I said. People on Twitter or on social media, here I am on television talking about this very serious topic. I take the job very seriously. They're like, you old fucking bag. Have you seen your neck?

Who did it?

Like just dragging down my jowls that look like saddle or my saggy ass, turkey gizard neck, or just constantly trashing me that I just learned how to tune it out. And I started to not care. And there's something very liberating about leaving an exercise class and your mascara from last night is running down your face like Dracula and going and getting your coffee anyway. You know why?

Because you don't give a shit.

What the other people who are standing in line around you think about the fact that your fucking mascara is running. And half of them, you're probably never going to see again anyway. So who gives a fuck? But I spent way too much time caring way too much about what other people might think, and it jokes you. So yeah, I did look like shit that day. I did. We'll post that video soon. Okay, what's next?

What.

Else did I do?

Well, I think then Wednesday, we had our first live event for our course offering for launch with Mel Robbins. And as a surprise, our team had pre-ordered some props for the event to make it a celebration. And the course is called launch with Mel Robbins. So they had purchased a spacesuit with a helmet.

And.

A pop-up tent shaped like a rocket ship.

Let me just.

Say here, Christine, just before you go on, everything Christine is describing is child size. So it was not like a normal fitting spacesuit or a big helmet that you had to put on or a tent that an adult should even be in, these were.

All.

Things that needed a squeeze to get into. So I just want to let the audience get that visual.

Let me also add that these were purchased in hopes of just having them on the desk that you were perched on upon.

They.

Weren't actually in hopes of you putting anything on. We just wanted to get you energized by looking at it.

Having it.

In the background. And so when we brought them out and you were so ecstatic and you're like, I'm putting this on, it was definitely a little more of a, is that actually going to fit on her? I thought I was just sitting on the desk.

Right. Is that a spacesuit or a skin suit?

Sort of a skin tight astronaut suit. Yeah. Somehow I missed in the setup because I was so surprised. And to paint the picture, we're doing this six-month long coaching program. We have 5,000 people waiting from around the world to log on to our first live training. I'm in the serious studios, and they pull out all these props. I'm like, awesome. And I start pulling it on with minutes to go before we're supposed to be live. And I pull it up, and it did fit like skims. I had to suck way in and do that. You know like when you try to pull your jeans on and you've had pizza or bread and you've got your bread basket, and you've got to do the butt tuck to get the zip to go in. It's like the human equivalent of sitting on your suitcase to compress it. Well, anyway, that's what I do. I either jump from my bed to the floor to get it up. I had to do that with the entire thing. And then the helmet was so tight, you guys, I had to take my glasses off and my pony tail out to squeeze the child size helmet onto my head.

And then I climbed into what was probably a three-foot-tall spaceship, playpen that you might up at the beach so that a baby could take a nap in it. And so I'm sitting in there squashed like a ball with this helmet grinding into my shoulders. Why? Because I don't give a shit. You know what I give a shit about? I give a shit about the enthusiasm and the surprise and delight that it's going to create that I would be willing to do something so ridiculous in order to surprise my students that are in launch. That's why I did it. Now, there was a downside to this because we're learning about Mel Robbins, my enthusiasm and my bad assery that leads me to not give a shit about certain things like open toed shoes or the fact that I'm wearing spanks in public next to a pool, next to a pool. I'm technically leaning on that a little bit too much. There's an actual fence between the restaurant and the pool. I don't think through things very often. And so what I didn't think through is that I'd be in a tiny little basically uterus with no circulation in a suit that is cutting off any possibility of airflow and a helmet that is slowly constricting my breathing.

So now my body temperature is up to about 120. And I come climbing out of this thing. I can barely get the helmet up over my ear, so I have to flip the thing open and talk through it. I get the helmet off, and then I have another problem. The suit is not only so tight that I have to do a striptease in front of 5,000 people to get the thing off, but it's got elastics and things around the ankles, and I can't get over my shoes. So I begin our first live training on the ground trying to pull this fucking thing off of my shoes in front of 5,000 people watching. I think it was a pretty big hit.

It was a huge hit. Huge. It was a huge hit. And it was a good reminder to me, because when I saw these props and we were putting them together in the green room, I had some concerns. Because people were watching the tent and people were guessing in the comments of like, I think Mel is in there. I think Mel is in there. And I didn't know. I didn't even know that you were in there because I didn't think you could fit.

I.

Thought it was just like, This is too small. So I just thought, and I thought you were going to pop out from the side. So when you came out of that tent and I wasn't in the room, I was watching on the app, I was like, no fucking way. And you popped out and everyone went bananas on all of the chat and comments. It was a huge hit.

And again, a reminder- I just said...

Go ahead. Yeah. No, just a really reminder to me of things aren't that serious and to have more fun.

Because I think- Next time I'll wear my open-toed shoes, Krista. Was there anything else I did that is on the... Oh, I farted at work the other day. Jesse, you want to tell everybody about that? And then I took photos of Jesse laughing and put him in the slack. Was that an HR violation? Probably.

Well, that's again, a situation where I thought and shared in slack, and I'm thinking, Oh, boy. And then before I could stop it, I thought it had been posted already.

Oh, on the stories. I put on the stories. Yeah, you put.

On the stories. I was like, Oh.

I can't.

Say I've ever had a boss fart in front of me before.

You just didn't know. They farted in front of you. They just hit it.

That's true. But you did the lean on a cheek to make it known that this is coming. It's coming. It's coming. And there was no time to run.

We.

Were stuck. And I can't help but laugh at farts. They're great. It was a memory that I will never forget. And you did it not once, but twice. But you.

Laughed for a minute straight.

Oh, I couldn't stop. I couldn't stop. It was hilarious.

Now this is a woman, by the way, who's worked at NASCAR. She's worked for the Baltimore Ravens. And you've never heard anyone at work fart? No.

Especially a female.

No, especially a female. What's in here?

How are their toes?

Farts and toes.

Farts and toes, people.

It made my day. But you didn't give a shit. You had.

To fart. Well, thank God I didn't give a shit, because then I wouldn't be able to wear those underwear again.

Too much, Mel.

Too much. Hopefully, they won't edit that out.

Oh, man.

What? Do you not have colleagues at far at work? Iknow. I'm just Furnit. Oh, my God. I'm crying. It's so fun. Okay, Cameron, anything else? You quit a job at a law firm to come here.

I know. Best decision I've ever made.

I.

Don't know if we want to talk about Dr. Amy, but I think that was a great example of how you can give a shit without not being a dick, which is such a hard-skilled master and you have it down pat where you can give really honest feedback without coming off as condescending. And so it's just you being open and free and vulnerable and honest and sharing your experience, and then giving someone that same feedback and honesty.

What did I do? No, I'm serious. What are you talking... Well, tell everybody who is Dr. Amy Shaw? Okay. And what the hell did I do that is in this realm of walking what is clearly a fine line? Okay.

So Dr. Amy Shaw was an expert that we had come on the podcast all about hormones, eating habits, menopause, great episodes that came out of that interview. And when she arrived, she definitely looked up to you a lot as a mentor. And when she sat down, you asked her like you do with most guests, what do you want me to call you?

And at.

That moment, she said, Amy, just Amy. And she is a double board certified doctor. Ivy League degrees from Harvard and Colombia definitely has the expertise to go by a doctor. And you said, I think that's a bad idea. And you said it in a very graceful way, but a very honest. And I don't really give a shit if you aren't going by Dr. Amy, you need to be going by Dr. Amy. And here's why. And I think that level of honesty, especially in a space where, I don't know, people are walking on eggshells a lot about, What do you want me to call you? What do you go by? And you're very honest about what you think. And I think you do it in such an amazing way that you're walking the line of being a dick, but you're not a dick, obviously. So giving a shit without being a dick, I think, is pretty much the hardest thing to master.

How do you think... What did you observe? Well, first of all, Cameron, thank you. And we have, I'm sure, that clip. So let's play that moment right now. Do you want me to call you Dr.

Amy? No, Amy. But you are a doctor. Yeah, but if I was your doctor, you could call me Dr. Amy. You don't need to call me Dr. Amy if we're in a conversation. Okay.

Do you want me to call you Dr. Shaw?

No. You're sure? Yeah.

Okay. Well, I'm going to make sure that we... I don't know. I might push back on that with you. Yeah. Maybe you.

Should go by Dr.

Amy. Okay.

I don't know. Whatever you prefer.

Whatever you prefer.

For me, it's whatever you're comfortable with.

I don't know. I feel like if I could give you some.

Coaching-.

Yeah, please. -because I've just already told you not to wear your blazer to wear a lab coat, as I think it's incredible that you're a.

Nutritionist and.

That you are also a.

Medical doctor.

And you worked your ass off.

To get that degree. And I want you to.

Own doctor.

Yeah.

And that's what you are.

No, that's great. Thank you. But I think that it's like you always come from a place of wanting to be relatable and humble. I know, for example, that some of the things that we're going to talk about, it's not really coming only just from my medical experience. It's also from my personal experience or something I would talk to a friend or a colleague. And so either way it goes.

I'm going to call you either Dr. Shaw or Dr.

Amy. Okay, Dr. Amy then. Okay, Dr. Amy.

Because I feel as though you have this authority in your background, and I want you to profoundly claim it. You're already relatable. You're already going to bring your life experience to it. I feel that the next level, I just felt the need to tell you this, the next quantum level up for you is in really embracing.

The.

Doctor.

In the Dr. Amy. Yeah, and I love that. Thank you. I mean, there's so much noise out there to hear something from somebody like you who knows has been through it. Any more life coaching advice? Go for it.

Well, that's why, because I feel like there's a lot.

Of noise.

And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you, Dr. Amy, because there's a lot of noise on TikTok.

There's a lot of.

Noise on social media. There are a lot of, quote, wellness experts that got themselves in shape, and they have a lot of important things to say.

But you.

Are a licensed and trained nutritionist with Ivy League degrees, and you're also.

A medical doctor.

And you understand not just nutrition as a lifestyle, but you understand nutrition.

And the science of nutrition.

And.

So when.

I'm listening to somebody who's a wellness expert who has figured this out in their life, I listen to them differently than I listen to a medical.

Doctor who.

Is figuring this out in her own life, who is also a nutritionist and understands it from the inside out. And so I'm thrilled that you're here. And I want to start.

With, so thank you. Thank you. You're welcome.

That was interesting to hear that back. And I wanted to ask you a question, Cameron.

What.

Is it that makes that exchange not feel like I'm either ganging up on her or I'm being a condescending jerk? What's the advice to anybody listening? Because giving feedback like that's really hard because you don't want somebody to feel demoralized. You don't want them to go, Oh, shit, I should have been doing this forever. But for me personally, I am so committed to helping other women and to helping other, especially people that have diverse backgrounds, be elevated and have bigger platforms and be widely respected and to own their power that I feel so passionate about it that you're right. I don't want to trample on somebody, but I know I'm fucking right. I give a shit that she cares about this.

Yeah, I think what made the encounter so different is that at the core of it was just a level of kindness and the amount that you care for people really was shining through versus you coming off as judgmental. It was coming from a place of, I want to really offer you this advice, and this is going to be brutal and honest. And people are going to be like, Wow, she really doesn't give a fuck. She's going there. But in many ways, you do give a shit because you're giving really authentic, valuable, and tangible advice to someone who really was open to listening to it.

Cameron, you just gave me this huge wake up moment, and I want to unpack it with you because I think it's going to be helpful to everyone listening. So since the topic is learning how to not give a shit, which is also the topic of learning how to give a shit.

About what matters.

In relationships, I used to struggle all the time with walking on eggshells, tiptoeing around issues, like seeing somebody in a bad relationship and not wanting to say anything because she's really in love with him or whatever, or seeing somebody getting walked all over at work and not wanting to say anything. And I used to not say things because I gave a shit about somebody being mad at me, or disappointed, or hurting their feelings. And I personally look back on that and say to myself, you're a bad friend. You should have given a shit. You should have given a shit, Mel, so much so that you were willing to risk somebody being disappointed or mad with you that you told them the truth. And you told them the truth because you cared about them and you needed somebody to tell them the truth. Have you ever been in that situation? Because you strike me, Cameron, so much as somebody that can, boom, just get right to the heart of something like that. Your mind is so powerful.

Yeah, I feel like I've always been the honest friend, but it definitely has been a line that I've walked, and sometimes I've crossed over it, and I've come off as a dick. And I think that as I've reflected and gotten older trying to find that balance of when can I not give a shit and really just say it as it is, but when is it going to cross the line?

And.

There's been many moments where I feel like it's been necessary. And it's important to remember when you're... I feel like Dr. Amy reacted in the perfect way. She was really honored that you were willing to give her that advice and take the time to explain why you felt she should be going by a different title. But I feel like in a lot of those situations, it's normal you're going to get someone that's defensive and that doesn't want to hear it.

My mom always used to say that difficult conversations are a lot like putting a time-released Grenade in somebody's head. It might not explode when you're saying it. They get defensive, they argue against it, but eventually, it'll click and go off. Because if you're coming from, and I think that's the takeaway as you're listening to us, that you're not doing anybody any favors if you give a shit about disappointing people or upsetting people. But you are being an incredible friend or family member or mentor or leader or colleague if you can really align with your values in wanting to support someone and wanting to tell the truth, and you give a shit about that. And when you do that, I think you can manage your tone, but you don't censor yourself. And that's the most.

Important part.

Yeah. Although I am picking up from this conversation, maybe when it comes to taking off my top in public, I should start censoring myself there.

I.

Really appreciate you guys sharing this because I feel like it's a really fun way to have a deeper conversation about something that we have to navigate every single day. I've often thought that it's really strange that there's one piece of feedback that I get all the time from our audience. All the time. And it's been happening for over a decade, and it's always struck me as odd that people come up, and I can reduce it down to one word that people always compliment me for. And they always say, Mel, I just love how real.

You are.

And I would always say, Well, thank you. And then I would walk away and think, What the hell does that mean? What do you mean real? What other way could you be? Of course, I don't want to be. Why would you come and I'm real? How do you know that I'm real? And what I'm getting from this conversation is authenticity and this being real, which is also, I think, a way of somebody saying you're relatable. It does really come down to giving a shit about what matters and not giving a shit about the things that don't. And that if you can start to use this conversation as a way to be or be more thoughtful about, well, what do I actually care about? And where am I spending energy on things that I don't give a shit about? It's a way for you to start to get closer to the core of who you are authentically. Because we do waste way too much time giving a shit about things that really don't matter. And they may have mattered in the past because you worked in a corporate setting and it was really buttoned up. Or it may have mattered in the past when you lived at home with your parents and you were a child, but it doesn't matter now.

We spend so much time twisting ourselves in knots about unimportant things. And we just talked about how hideous, I'll use the word hideous because I literally looked hideous. I mean, I not only had a tomato red face, and crazy witch hair and fogy glasses and bad breath and impacted sinuses, and probably throwing in a camel toe in there, too. I didn't have anything tied around my waist. But not giving a shit about that is very liberating, because otherwise, I'd be embarrassed by my own existence walking down the sidewalk. And I would twist myself in knots worrying about what do I look like and how right is my face? Is my face coming down? And maybe I should go back to the hotel and take a shower and get this makeup off my face and blow my nose before I get a cup of coffee. And all of that energy twisting myself around what other people may be thinking rather than just being okay, not giving a shit. It's so liberating. And I think about that example of for how long I was willing to twist myself into little spaces that didn't fit and how painful it can be.

When you hide who you are, when you're embarrassed about what you look like, when you worry about what other people think about what you're wearing. And yet it's also the flip side is when you give a shit about the right things, twisting yourself into spaces like a small tent is an act of joy because it's aligned with what you value. I didn't give a shit how small that little hole was. I had to army crawl my ass in there in order to get in. And then I had to swirl around like a centipede to curl up in there like a little ball because it was so aligned with my value, my values of wanting to serve, of wanting to bring fun, of wanting to demonstrate something, which was enthusiasm, and surprise, and celebration, and not giving a shit, like being willing to do that stuff. And so as we continue to go deeper and all these examples of how I'm oblivious at times and how I've worked actually really hard to get to this point of acceptance and this point of focusing on caring about things that I value and trying to completely disregard aspects of life that I just don't give a shit about, that visual of the tent and why it's important to twist yourself when it's about your values versus twisting yourself when it's not, that's really helpful to see.

Did I do anything else that day? Is probably.

Probably is probably the right answer, but I don't have any.

Specific.

Meaning. I do. Botox.

Oh, my God.

So I got Botox, everybody, in my jaw joint. And I've been going to the same dermatologist for over a decade. I love her. I trust her. She's sensational. And I've been having tremendous pain in my jaw, grinding, trouble eating. And both my primary and my dermatologist was like, You got to get Botox in your jaw. And when she felt my jaw, she's like, Holy shit, that's a tense muscle. You're going to have to have a little extra. And I'm like, okay, as long as you make the pain go away. And she said, well, it could impact her smile. I don't care. I can't eat at this point. Just take the pain away. Well, she shot me up. And let me tell you something. It impacted my smile. I look like a taking a shit when I have a smile. And this is something that I am self-conscious about. So all week long, as we're in Los Angeles, and we did a bunch of interviews, I'm having to really try to manage that my lips are curling up. Because if I do a closed smile, try to lip smile like you keep your mouth smiled, my lips suck in like our body language expert warned us about.

What's that called? A lip? Lip roll. A lip roll. I do a lip roll, and it looks like I'm frowning. And then if I try to do a big toothy smile, I look like I'm grinding out of shit. I'm like, clenching. And so I had to tell every single expert we had. Now look, I'm going to give you a kissy face in this, because if I try to give you a smile, I'm going to look like I'm growling at you. And so I now have a week's worth of photos from both graduation week and the podcast where I'm kissing experts and kissing in the air. And I look completely ridiculous. But at least I can chew food and the pain has gone away. But I'm never getting Botox in my jaw again.

But right now, you don't give a shit.

I don't. But it bothers me a little. But I'm trying to direct my attention away from how I look and just go, Mel, it looks like shit, but whatever. What was the CNN story?

Exactly what you said. Can I read to you what some people said to you on CNN?

Wait, you have it?

I do.

Oh, my God. She went back in time.

I think a lot of it you remembered, but this is pretty brutal. I have four outstanding comments. Let's say that. Your neck is saggy, just like your opinions. It's funny now, but you were probably like.

When you got.

That, right? That was probably- Yeah, I probably.

Heard it in the beginning. Yeah, probably hurt.

I'm sure I did.

You should go back to the hole you crawled out of.

It was a deep hole.

Now we know you're an expert on crawling.

Out of a.

Small spaces. Why is someone so ugly on television?ouch.

Nice.

Because I'm smarter than you, fuck face.

Okay, the last one. How does a moron like you have a law degree?

I cheated. That's how to not give.

A shit.

Well, you.

Know how I learned how to not give a shit? Is I started to visualize. Empathy helps a lot. So a couple of things on other people's opinions. Number one, let's just take a minute and zoom out and have some perspective and imagine what is the life of a person who is sitting on their phone watching TV nonstop, sounding off at Pundence online. What does their life actually look like? I would imagine hypertension. I would imagine a lot of negativity. I'm going to throw in a little alcohol or drug abuse. Probably a small circle of friends. Not getting a lot of sex, I would imagine. Perhaps living in your parents' basement. I would think your bills are piled sky high if that's how you're spending your time. If you truly spend time sounding off at strangers online, your life sucks.

And so feeling sorry for somebody that cuts you off in traffic or even the mean girls. Lean girls are shitty people. You know how insecure they are? If you need a fucking purse and a designer, whatever, in order to have high self-esteem, you are really fucking insecure. And so I just look at people that are critical of other people, even though I'm being critical of other people for the sake of humor, with a lot of sympathy Wow, must really suck for you to watch TV and feel so offended or triggered by what I'm saying that you are taking time and energy to not only write about it, but to spread negativity. That's a really awful.

Place to live.

Your life. I hope you find a good therapist at some point, and you get the healing you deserve. And so understanding the greater context and not making it about you, I really mean that. I think about lots of experiences of just mean cliques of people and how they look down on other people. And I literally say to myself, I would hate to be part of that friend group. And one rule of thumb that I think about a lot is this. I think small minds talk about other people. And really cool, big, creative minds talk about ideas. They talk about things; they talk about the future. And that's what I'm interested in. And so when you make it not so personal, that helps a lot. And when you elevate yourself above the pettiness and the criticism and the negativity that other people might throw at you, it helps me rise above it. And the truth is, there are days I look like shit, and there are days that I probably look like I shouldn't be on TV. And you know what? I don't give a shit. So it helps a lot. It helps a lot because it's mentally healthy to be able to detach.

And a lot of your mental health struggles, whether it's anxiety, or disconnection, or paranoia, it's all a result in many, many, many cases of you being way too concerned about shit out of your control and way too focused on stories that you're telling yourself that aren't even true. And so if anybody's out there gossiping about me, you need to get better hobbies. You really do. If you're looking down on other people or notice the next time you go into a social setting. And notice how much time is spent talking about people who aren't there. If that's what's happening in your social setting, and it's not a structured conversation around you seeking advice about a situation, which is very different than gossiping, you can seek advice about a situation with another person in your personal life, in your family, or in business and not have it be gossiping. But if you're engaged in constant banter about other people who aren't present, you need bigger goals. You need to do more with your life. And you need to assess who you're hanging out with, because when they gossip with you, they're going to gossip about you when you leave.

That's what those people do. And so it helps to not gossip yourself because I think gossip is one of those things that you also start giving a shit about things that don't matter. Because gossiping is caring about shit that doesn't matter. And I don't think very successful people or accomplished artists or the greatest entrepreneurs are waste in time giving a shit about gossiping about other people. And I used to be a big gossiper. I can say this with certainty because I used to be that insecure, desperate, clingy, anxious, competitive bitch. And I'm not that person anymore. And gossiping was a big thing in my 20s. It is not part of my life anymore at all. That brings me to the four things, like the how. How do you not give a shit? And these are just four random things that I just tried to distill down because I want to give you a takeaway. This shows you a little behind the scenes. It allows me to show you more of my personality and have a fun way of having you meet Cameron, one of our producers, and Jesse, who runs video and production here for the podcast, and Christine, our COO and CFO who did not want to be on camera.

I'm proud of just like, Fuck it, I don't give a shit. I'm just going to jump on, even though this is out of my comfort zone. And Amy, who's one of our senior team members and producers here. But I'm like, I got to figure out what's something you guys can grab onto. Okay, so the first one is rule number one for how to stop giving a shit about things that don't matter. Rule number one, try giving a shit about everything and see how it feels. I'm dead serious about this. I know it sounds stupid, but why not worry about what shoes you're wearing? Worry about what everybody's thinking. Worry about what your boss is doing. Worry about what's going to happen next week. And then stop and ask yourself, that working for you? Does it really work for you to lie at bed at night and worry about what your friends are doing? Does it really work for you to scroll through social media and worry about the weight you've gained or worried about this? Does it really work for you to obsess about what outfit you're going to put on seven different times before you leave the house?

Does it really work for you to worry about the fact that your makeup is drowning and.

You just need a...

Drop the mask. That's the point of this. Because if worrying about everything and giving a shit about all this stupid stuff actually worked, you'd be happier. You'd feel more secure. You'd have more time because you would work. But it doesn't work. It is so liberating when you realize that, My God, I'm robbing my own energy and my own focus and my own confidence by worrying about so much shit that doesn't matter. Stop it. Stop it. And if you can't stop it, I would just goose it, man. I would step on the accelerator and I would worry about every damn thing and then ask yourself, is this really helping me? Because it doesn't help you to put your hand on a hot stove. That's why you don't do it every day. That's rule number one. Rule number two, this goes back to the stuff we talked about with CNN and zooming out and visualizing who actually is criticizing people online? I mean, come on now. Let's show some empathy. Rule number two for me that has helped me really stop obsessing about what other people are thinking or other people's reactions is I've come to believe that almost everybody you meet is at about the emotional maturity of somewhere between eight and 12.

I think that's where most people get stuck. Most people's disappointment is an eight-year-old throwing a tantrum. Most people being mad at you is about as long as an 11-year-old is mad at you. And we conflate adults with adult maturity when it comes to their emotional reactions, and 99 % of the population does not have it. And so if you can imagine your boss as an eight-year-old, like I think about the guy that we were meeting with at Audible, great guy. I freaking love him. I hope we do a ton of business together. But I think about him as a cool kid who's playing games and video games and super innovative and super smart. And it allows me to just relate to him on that human level instead of trying to do that gamesmanship and bad boss, I'm going to get the deal done. No, think about everybody as between the emotional maturity of eight to 12, and you'll worry a lot less.

About.

How they react. Now, rule number three is incredibly important. And I want to thank my team for helping me distill this down, because I think this is super, super, super important. Rule number three is when it comes to not giving a shit, there is a time and a place.

For.

It. Okay? And I'm going to take this even further. There is a time for really important standards and being rigid about following them, and a time to amplify.

Your self-expression.

I'm going to give you a tool in just a minute for how you can really use this. In fact, now I'm going to give you the tool now because I think it'll make more sense. Think about a seesaw, that teeter totter thing. It's a balance. And so in certain environments, like maybe when you go home, home still feels like the same operating procedures as when you were eight years old. And so maybe you've been.

Really.

Putting more weight on the side of the way things have always been, and you've really not been giving a shit about your self-expression. The opportunity here is to see where in your life you have stopped being you. You have started giving a shit about things that don't align with your value, that suffocate you, that make you feel like you can't be you. That is not a place that you should be. Those are not relationships you should be in. But you've got to think about this like a seesaw. Where in your life are things out of balance and you're starting to give a shit and put weight into things that no longer align with you? And where can you bring things more into balance so that you can be yourself, you can be self-expressed, and you can do so without offending people around you, without you violating corporate HR policies? We were talking a lot about open, toed shoes. And if I were walking into J. P. Morgan to close a massive eLearning, corporate training deal, I probably would not have worn my Valentino Espadrilles, despite how much they cost. I probably would have worn something else, or at least I would have gotten a fucking manicure.

Okay? Why? Because there is a time and a place to be cavalry. Your job is a place to pay attention to standards. Why? Because they're paying you to do something. A job, I hope it's fun. I hope you're part of a culture, and you have a sense of belonging, and you feel appreciated. But the bottom line is you're there because you're getting paid to do something, which means you should care more about the standards, and the culture and the operating procedures than you might in your day to day life. Why? Because you are making an exchange for money. But I have one giant caveat when it comes to talking about standards in the workplace. And I want to take this opportunity to have a conversation with you about it because it is incredibly important. It is very real. It's very real in work. It's very real in life, in general. And it impacts people's ability to be fully authentically their truest selves. See, there are a lot of standards, especially in the workplace, where discrimination and bias is very real, and it impacts people's ability to be themselves. And as a white woman, I have the privilege of never having to deal with that.

I'll give you an example. So I have a bunch of black female friends who do not feel comfortable wearing their natural hair at work. And it's not just anecdotal.

There is.

Incredible research documenting this. So a recent study from Michigan State, for example, confirms that 80 % of black women feel that they need to switch their hairstyle in order to align with more conservative work standards. And a recent study from Duke has proven that black women with natural hairstyles like an afro or twists or braids are less likely to.

Land a job interview.

Than a white woman like me or a black woman with straightened hair. I mean, that just makes me want to cry. And here I am talking about open-toed shoes and black women have to worry about.

Their hair.

And being who they are.

That is so shitty.

And that's why I wanted to take an opportunity and why I think it's so important to call out this type of bias, and that's why I'm doing it right now. I want to acknowledge that whether it's your gender, identity.

Or your.

Religion or your race or your sexual orientation or a disability that you have, I want to acknowledge that how you manage this balance that I'm talking about between self-expression and being your authentic, full self and the very real bias and discrimination that exists in social and workplace norms, that is a deeply personal decision and balancing act that you got to make every single day. And it's easy for me to say, hey, me. Hiding who you are is never okay, because.

It's true.

I don't want you to.

Ever hide who.

You are. But I just felt it was important that I acknowledge that it's easy to say, but it's not that easy to do. So let me kinder layer that into this rule number three that we're talking about, which is there's a time and a place for self-expression.

It is up to you to decide what you value most in any situation. When you think about that seesaw between standards and societal or workplace norms.

Versus.

Your self-expression and you being you. But here's what I do know. I hope.

That you find the.

Courage to choose your values and to choose.

Being yourself.

As often.

As you can.

And that brings me to the fourth rule. The fourth rule for how to learn how to give a shit about what matters and not care.

About what doesn't.

The fourth rule is you go first. You go first.

Every single human being that you encounter is trapped in some rule they think they should be following. Everybody. And the rule, if you want to start giving a shit about what really matters is you go first. You be the one that shows up with Aspergerils. You be the one that says, I'll pull on that spacesuit and climb into that thing. You be the one that brings the fun. And what I've found over and over and over again, and I think Christine, you'll be able to say, Yep, it's true, is that by being willing to put the real me, especially the hideous me, the moments where I'm crying, the moments where my makeup is running, the moments where the dog has just barfed all over something, the moments where I've just left a gym class, where I've pulled a calf muscle, and I'm still panting, and my eyes are bloodshot, and my face is beat red. And I literally look at myself in the selfie. And I say, how does Christopher Robbins wake up next to this every single morning with a smile on his face because you, woman, are ugly. And then I hit play.

My willingness to do that, my willingness to go first, to drop the mask, the filter, to just put it out there, it's liberating for people. I mean, people come up to me more often when I look like shit. And I say, yeah, I'm happy to take a selfie. They're like, really? I'm shocked that I would want to actually take a selfie looking like that. And then somebody perfectly made it up. Let me fix my hair. I'm like, are you kidding? Look at me. I look like a Labradoodle that just ran a marathon. I mean, give me a break. Get the selfie up here. Let's go. I'm going to make a kissy face because my jaw is frozen and it makes it look like I'm taking a shit when I try to smile. But what do you see, Christine? And the you go first.

And that you go first? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's something that really connects with.

People.

When they meet you of just feeling like they're running into a friend that they have seen from afar. And I think there's something very special about that and it's a true connection. And then something I would just add as somebody who's known you for a long time, 18 years at this point, you have always been exactly the same person. And so it's weird that when we run into people and people are super excited to see you just because I've known you for so long, but that it's a sincere connection, for sure. And the other thing I would say is that I've never known you to make a negative comment about anyone else's appearance, how anyone else is dressed. I don't think that's something that you process or connected to. And I think it's because you read yourself of those constraints that I don't even know that it's something that you notice. And I think that's quite admirable. And I think that's also something to share of like, once you stop caring about those things, you'll stop paying attention to them and other people, too. And it makes it better for everyone.

That's a huge, profound point, because I've heard other people, Christine, make this point where they go, When other people judge you, it's about them. It's not about you. But I think you just illustrated why. Because I don't ever critically judge what anybody else looks like or what they're wearing because you're right. I don't judge myself.

For what I'm wearing.

I mean, I can laugh at myself. I have humanity and humor about it. But I'm not actually very critical of myself. And I think if you can eradicate that in yourself, it's true. You don't actually criticize other people. It does begin with how you treat yourself. And this also then reinforces what I'm saying about empathy. All those people that you're trying to be friends with that are competitive, or they're the high end group, or they're the fancy people, and you feel that criticism, they're deeply critical of themselves. And that's the circle that you're chasing? You got to get right with you. And it's an interesting topic how to not give a shit about stuff. I love that quote from the beginning of the book, because it sounds like a throwaway topic. But I think at the core of a great life, it's really one of the most important skills that you can actually learn, because what you're doing is you're really giving a shit about your values, and you're putting your attention and your mindset and your effort toward what you value, and you're spending less and less time and energy on things that you don't.

I love that famous Nipsy Hustle quote. If you look at the people in your circle and you don't get inspired, then you don't have a circle, you have a cage. And I'm going to add to that quote. If you look at the people in your circle and you can't be yourself, then you don't have a circle, you are in a cage. And you've got to be very careful.

About this, because here's what I've realized.

Over and over and over again in my own life. It's that my own behavior and my insecurities are almost always what put me and keep me in that cage.

And that brings me to a final story I want to share with you from last week. It's a story about our daughter, Kendle, and how insecurities.

Can put you in a cage.

If you follow me on social media, you're probably aware that our daughter graduated from USC last week, and she was given the honor of singing the national anthem at the 140th commencement ceremonies for the.

University of Southern California.

So we were there. It was.

An.

Unbelievable moment to watch our.

Daughter.

Sing the national anthem acappella in front of.

20,000 fellow graduates.

Uits and their families. So we're talking.

At least.

50,000.

People there.

As she was singing. And one of the coolest things is as she was singing the national anthem and as the.

Song starts.

To build, you hear the crowd getting louder.

And louder.

And.

You can also.

Hear her just.

Coming into the fullest, most authentic version.

Of.

Who she is.

Just take a listen to this moment. Oh, say.

Can.

You see? By the dawn's.

Early.

Light?

What so proudly we hailed.

At the twilight's last cleaning? Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight. And the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming. And the rockets, the red glare, the bombs bursting in air gave proof through the night.

That our flightsure to get to where you were still there. Oh, say, does that star-spangled banner yet away?

(chris) Oh.

The land and of the free and the home of the brave.

That moment will probably be one of those moments that flashes before my eyes on my deathbed, like a core memory.

But that's not the point of the story. The point of the.

Story is this.

24.

Hours after that.

Moment.

I asked her.

So can.

What was the.

Most surprising.

Thing that's happened since you.

Sang the national anthem yesterday? And she said this.

I didn't realize.

That 99 % of my friends have never heard me sing.

I'm like, what?

She said, Yeah. She said, hearing me sing at graduation was the first time in four years of knowing me that they had ever.

Heard my voice.

Now, keep in mind, she is a popular music major. For four years, she.

Has been performing.

In college. And just stop.

And consider.

That 99 % of her friends over the past four years have never heard her sing. Why? Because of her insecurities.

See.

She gave a shit about what people would think about her singing. And if you look at her social media, for the last four.

Years.

There was only one post on her Instagram account. And that one post was of her singing. But that's it. Now this is her deepest passion. Her standing.

Before people.

And singing and sharing.

Herself.

This is the truest form of herself expression.

And yet.

She put herself in a cage because of her insecurities. That's so sad. And I know you're doing it, too. That in some area of your life, you are so concerned about what other people might think that you're not sharing your full self. That's what it means to put yourself in a cage. Now here's the good news. The door to that cage, it's.

Wide open.

And it.

Always has been.

I hope this episode has inspired you to open your wings and.

Express yourself.

Your full self. Because when you drop those insecurities and you stop caring so much about it and you allow yourself to just be you, you, my friend, will set yourself free.

Actually, you know what? I'm going to commit right now to letting go of making myself wrong. Good job, Mel Robbins, for getting out there. Good job for trying out an episode where I would be walking and talking and recording it on my iPhone. And good job for having the presence of mind to realize it would be a better listening experience for you and a better experience for me to unpack this really important topic of letting go.

How do you.

Let go of what no longer serves you? I got to say, I get questions about this all the time. In fact, just yesterday I got this question from Cheryl. Mel, how do you know that the thing you're holding onto is meant to be let go of versus fighting for it even harder? Do you have any thoughts or perhaps tools to help discover it or encourage the universe to bring that epiphany along? In other words, how do I know when it's time to let go? All right, everybody, get ready, because this is one of the most important aspects of creating a better life and of being a happier person. We spend so much time focusing on what we need to do, what we need to add in, what we need to change. And have you stopped to consider that the best place to make a change is by letting go of things, of projects, of thinking patterns, of relationships that no longer serve you? And the big question is how? How do you know when it's time? And I have got not only a fantastic visual metaphor to help you understand this concept.

But I.

Also have a really interesting way to approach this. We're going to talk about the fact that your energy and your intuition is always there to tell you when it's time to let something go because it no longer serves you. So to get into this topic, I want to introduce the metaphor. And it was the metaphor I had started talking about as we were on that hike together. I mean, here in the United States, anyway, it is autumn. It is the fall season. We are all aboutumpkins. We are in harvest time. There are corn stalks everywhere. We're getting ready for Orange and Red and all those amazing colors and carrot cake. I mean, I love this time of year. And I realize it may not be fall where you are. If you're part of our global fan base halfway around the world, it's summertime. Don't get hung up on the fact that I'm using fall as a metaphor. I personally believe whenever it is that you are listening to this episode, even if it's two years from now, you're listening to this right now because you are meant to hear it right now. Because there is a new season that needs to start in your life, and that's going to require you to let go of things that no longer serve you.

And so let's talk about the metaphor of what happens to a tree. When the fall season hits. And in researching this for you because it's one thing to just tell you a metaphor, it's another thing to really understand it and explain it. This was fascinating. I know we learned about chlorifil and fall and the life cycle of a tree in elementary school, but I had forgotten most of this stuff. So check this out. The reason why a tree has leaves.

Is because.

The tree needs energy to survive. It needs energy to grow. And the leaves have a very particular purpose. The leaves are there to take the sunlight and convert it to energy so that the tree can grow. And in exchange, the tree gives a ton of water back to these leaves. I mean, this process of the leaves sprouting and the leaves growing and the leaves taking its surface area and converting the sun into energy so the tree can go from a tiny little acorn to a mighty oak, that is a lot of energy. And there's this reciprocal nature to the relationship that a tree has to its leaves because the tree has to bring in tons of water in order to fuel this energy exchange. And here's the reason why leaves fall off a tree. In the middle of winter, at least here in the United States, when the ground is frozen and snowpack is on top, there is no water for the tree. And if those leaves with their big flat surface were to stay on that tree through winter, the leaves would.

Kill.

The tree. It would suck the tree dry of all the water that it needs. An interesting thing about fall is that we.

Look at the.

Leaves turning and we look at the leaves dropping gently and falling down to the ground as this beautiful thing that happens, this natural thing that happens, it's.

So lovely.

It's just wonderful. Isn't this delightful? Do you want to know that this is almost like a violent act? That the trees are pushing those leaves off its branches. The tree is basically going, Yo, if you are hanging around on my branches through the wintertime, you are going to suck me dry of all my energy. I am going to die if you don't get off my freaking branches. The tree literally pushes them, ejects them, kicks them out of their life. Why? Because there is no reciprocal energy exchange that can happen during the winter. The tree has to conserve its energy to survive. And after the winter season, once those leaves are gone and the tree can conserve its energy instead of giving it all to that leaf while killing itself. I bet you got areas of your life where you're giving all your energy into a relationship or into your work or into some stupid thinking pattern that you've been doing for years that makes you feel bad. You put all your energy in one direction, you get nothing in return. That's what fall is for a tree. The fall season for a tree is thank you very much for spring and summer.

You were amazing. This relationship between the leaf and the tree, this was reciprocal. You got energy from me. I got energy from you.

Bada-bing, bada-bong.

And then all of a sudden, boom. This is a one way thing. And if I hold on to these leaves, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. And I'm bringing that metaphor and that visual and that's a documented point of view that this isn't just some lovely thing where the leaves change colors and it's so beautiful. And now we all drink a pumpkin spice latte. That's not what this is. This is a tree's survival. This is about energy.

This is about.

The fact that in order to grow, in order to be strong, to be the best at you, you got to surround yourself with relationships and work and projects and friendships and habits where there is an equal reciprocal exchange that you give and you get and return. And that's where we're going to start when it comes to how I want you to think about this concept of letting go. We're going to talk about how to identify that moment when there is no longer that energy exchange, that there is something that has become a complete energy suck. And when you realize whether it's a friendship or a romantic relationship or a job or some habit or a place that you live, when you realize that something has become an.

Energy-suck on.

You, that's when you know it's time to let go. That's when you know, like that tree, that you better kick that thing off your branches because it's hanging on to you or you're holding on to it. And if you keep doing that, what will happen? And you've had this happen in your life where you've held on to things for too long, where you refuse to let things go. And what did it do? It sucked you dry. It sucked you dry of your energy. It sucked you dry of your vitality. It made you feel depleted. Instead of those leaves or that project or that person withering away and falling to the ground so that you could regain your strengths so that you could step into a new season of your life? No, you gave it all to them. You held on for too long. Well, guess what? That's not happening anymore because what we're going to talk about when we come back from a short word from our sponsors, which I want you to listen to because by the way, our sponsors, they're the reason why I can show up twice a week. There is a reciprocal exchange between us.

They literally.

Pay for this show, which is why I'm so enthusiastic about it. So we can put this out there around the world for free. So I want to give an energy exchange back to the amazing sponsors of the Mel Robbins podcast.

Take a listen. We're going to be right back because we're going to now talk about in detail what do I mean by reciprocal energy exchange? And where are the major areas in your life where you tend to start to have this be a one way thing where you're given all the energy and you're the one that's depleted and dry? All right, I'll be right back. You hang on to my branches. We're not done yet. It's really green right now, which.

Means these.

Trees are.

Holding onto it. Chlorifil.

That chloraphyl is coming through, but in literally a matter of days. The green is going to leave.

Those leaves.

Yellow.

Orange, red, brown, purple.

It's going to take over, and.

Those leaves will.

Have served their purpose, and they will all of a sudden, wither away and fall to the ground. That was Mel Robbins, your friend who has a degree in Botany. No, just kidding. I want to touch on one point from what I said on the trail before we get into this energy exchange and how you're going to use your intuition and the fact that you deserve to have an exchange or reciprocal nature to what you give and what you receive back from it, I want to talk about one thing that I said, which is the leaves served their purpose. When the leaves are green, the leaves are bringing energy to the tree, and the tree is returning energy in the form of water. The reason why the leaves start to change is because the tree starts to pull back. The tree starts pulling back on the amount of water that it is sending to the leaves. The tree is starting to let go. The leaf no longer serves a purpose, and this is an important thing to say because so often we have trouble letting go of friendships, of habits, of jobs, of for me where I lived and raised our kids for 26 years.

We recently sold our home. And by God, I held on to that for probably two years longer than we needed to because I had trouble letting go. But what I want you to focus on.

Is that.

When something has a purpose in your life, that's an amazing thing. And it's also normal for something to serve a purpose during a specific period of time and to no longer serve a purpose in your life now or in the life you want to create. And so when you honor that a friendship served a purpose, and a really good example of this is you know how whenever you have a new job or you move an apartment or you move to a city that all of a sudden the patterns in your life change and your friendships change. And your friendships change because now you're doing different things. You're bumping into different people. It doesn't mean that you're no longer friends with the people that you used to hang out with at work, but the friends that you had at work served a particular important purpose during that period of your life. There was an equal exchange back and forth. What you gave, you received back. It's why you ate lunch with the same people every day. You enjoyed them, and they enjoyed you. But now that you live somewhere else, putting a ton of energy back into that relationship when you're not going to get the same back, it doesn't serve the same purpose.

And that's why when you let go of friendships, you also need to let go of the judgment on yourself. Like, there's something wrong with me, and am I doing something wrong? And do I have any friends? Of course you have friends. The patterns of your life have changed. You're putting energy somewhere else because you're getting energy from somewhere else. This is the natural cycle of life. It's the natural cycle of relationships. And I find that when you really honor the things that you need to let go of, whether it's a job you no longer like or a house you no longer want to live in or a friendship you don't see very often, or maybe it's some habit, maybe it's some habit that you used to have. So when you say something serves a purpose, you actually honor. You honor the energy it used to give you. You honor the fact that you put something into it. And you also honor the fact that not everything is going to be in your life forever. And that's what allows you to let go. You start to let go when you realize.

That.

Holding on to things is holding you back. And in particular, holding on to the guilt and the judgment that you layer onto yourself that you should. But I feel guilty, but this, but that, that is definitely holding you back from creating a new life and from creating space for something new to happen. And see, that's one of the reasons why you have to learn how to let go, because when you continue to pour your energy into things that no longer give you energy back, it's going to kill you. It's going to kill your happiness. It's going to kill your vitality. It destroys your motivation. It makes you feel depleted. It makes you feel like you're the last on your list. And so that's reason number one. And the second reason why you have to start to let go of what doesn't serve you is because as long as you are holding on to the old stuff, you have no time, no space, and no motivation to create anything new. Period. And you know this. So let's now jump into how. How do I use this energy exchange and my intuition to spot the things that are draining me dry and to let them go, push them off the branches.

Get them out of my life.

Thank them for their purpose and their service. But then get out of here because you need to make room for something new and better and energizing. Doesn't that sound good? Yeah, you better believe it sounds good, so let's do it. And one of the reasons why I want you to really focus on energy is because your energy doesn't lie. I mean, just for a second with me. Just take a second. Whether you're out there walking the dog, or you're driving around in your car, or you're working from home, or you're busy doing a bunch of stuff, I want you to just stop for a second. And I want you to assess right now. What's your energy level? Think about a fuel gage in a car. Empty to full. Empty to full in a human being means you feel depleted, you feel burnt out, you feel checked out, you feel like your whole life is basically pouring energy into everything else. Full in a human being basically means that you're energized, you're excited, you feel like the things that you're pouring yourself into, your habits, your routine, the people you're surrounded with, the projects you're working on, it may be difficult, but it's bringing energy back into your life, too.

Your energy never lies. We are energetic human beings. I know that sounds woo woo. We can get into the neuroscience on that on a totally different episode. But let me prove it to you. Have you ever walked into, say, a coffee shop? And the person that is behind the counter is having the world's worst day. They are super grumpy. It doesn't matter how big your smile is. It doesn't matter how nice you are. They are like... That energy actually impacts you. Just like your positive energy can impact somebody else. Energy is contagious. And most importantly, when you hang out with your friend Mel Robbins, I'm going to teach you to start to pay attention to it, and I'm going to teach you to trust it because energy is also tied to intuition. And we're going to get into this tool of how do you assess, is something giving me positive energy? Is something giving me negative energy? Is this a relationship that is one way or is this something that gives me something in return? That is the tool we're going to talk about today. And what if the very next morning you walk into the coffee shop and you're having a bad day.

Like one.

Of your pets.

Is really sick and it just is really bumming you out and you're feeling really low. And the person behind the counter is just the nicest person on the planet. And they look you in the eyes and they give you a big smile and they are really cheery and they compliment you. And they maybe even ask you, hey, how are you doing? You're like, oh, I'm not doing so great. Oh, I'm really sorry. Coffee's on me. How do you feel? You feel better because they poured their positive energy into you and that lifted you up. Energy is contagious.

It also.

Always tells the truth. It's like a compass. In fact, a compass runs on magnetic energy. That's why a compass always points true north. It never lies. Your energy doesn't lie either. It's why you feel off around certain people. It's why if somebody texts you and you don't like them, you're like, but.

If you.

Like the person, you're like, oh, yeah, cool. Energy never lies. So let's talk about how we're going to use it. I'm going to break the topic of letting go into two different types of situations. And in each one, I'm going to explain how to use energy and paying attention to the energy inside you, both that you're giving, that you're feeling, and that you're receiving back in order to know when it's time to let go. Situation number one is super easy, and this is typically when it has to do with things or projects or a job or somebody who's really, really engaging in toxic behavior. This is the easy stuff. This is when you have a flood of negativity around something. I'm going to give you a bunch of examples of this. We all have a pair of pants that we're holding onto from high school or before we were pregnant or whenever that we can't freaking fit into. When you stare at those things, you're reminded that you can't fit in them. When you try to wiggle them on, especially after a shower, you feel terrible about yourself. That is something that is an example you need to let go of that.

That job that you walk into where there is a pit in your stomach and you gripe about it to your friends and you spend all this energy pouring into why you hate it and resisting, you need to find another job. That friend that does nothing but gossip and roll their eyes and drag you down and literally is such a bad influence on you, you need to let them go. And what does that mean?

Well.

That depends on you. Donate the pants for sure.

Start.

Redirecting your energy from complaining about your job to directing energy to looking for a new one. I mean, just imagine that's the other thing about this. Do you know how much energy and time and effort you waste focusing on resistance and complaining? If you were to just stop complaining for a day about something that gives you negative energy, like your job or your parents or your boyfriend or your girlfriend or your roommates, what if you stopped complaining? Because that's negative energy pouring out and you directed that same effort toward something.

Positive.

Like fixing it or letting it go and creating something new that makes you feel good. I relate to that because I think I've spent a lot of my life pouring negative energy at things that I didn't really like. Instead of realizing I needed to complete this. I needed to let this go. The roommate served a purpose two years ago. Not a fit right now, and that's okay. Time to kick the leaves off the branches. You know what I'm saying? Time to save myself instead of pouring everything into either another person or my energy into being upset and frustrated and disappointed. So when you have things that are for sure 100 % zapping your energy or you find yourself complaining, griping, resisting, let go. And you can do that in two ways.

Obviously.

Donate, throw out, delete is one. The other one is take all that negative resistance that you feel in you that churns and pour it into something positive. If you can't quit your job, for example, because you need to pay the bills, no problem. Instead of complaining, instead of feeling resistance, spend 30 minutes every morning before you go to work looking for a new one. Or spend 30 minutes every morning pouring positive energy into a hobby or a project or a side hustle that brings you positive energy. And when you start to do that, you start to lift yourself up because you are now getting this reciprocal exchange by pouring energy and attention into something new and something positive. And that's going to lift you up. And by the way, that will also change your experience of that current job that you hate. I know this because I've done it. I remember being.

Right out.

Of, let's see, how old was I? I was 30 years old. I was pregnant with our daughter, who's now 23. And we had moved to Boston from New York City, where I had been a public defender. And I love that job working for legal aid. And so we moved to Boston. I do not have a license to practice in Massachusetts, so I could not work for the public defender's office. I have to take the bar. But I've got bills to pay. So I get a job in this huge law firm. And working in a law firm is the exact opposite of being a public defender. When I worked in New York City for legal aid, I was in court five days a week from eight o'clock in the morning till five o'clock in the afternoon. That was my job. I was on my feet. I was negotiating plea deals. I was talking to witnesses and police officers and judges and going to clients, going to Rikers, all of it. When you get a job in a large law firm, you literally go into a high rise and sit in an office and write all day.

It was the exact opposite of what I am wired to do. I knew the moment I got that job that I was going to hate it. And for a year, I would get on the commuter rail and I would commute in for 45 minutes, and then I would get off the commuter rail and I would clomp, clomp, clomp, clomp over to the building. And then I would get in the elevator and then I would take the elevator up to whatever, the 23rd floor. And then I'd clomp, clomp, clomp, clomp. I'd go into my office and shut the door. And from the moment I woke up every morning.

I felt depleted.

The closer I got to that office as that train clunk down the tracks towards Boston, the more resistance I felt. I got nothing in return from that job. Yes, I got a paycheck and I needed it, so it served a purpose. But I was getting nothing of value back. Because when I looked at the partners in the law firm, I knew damn well that's not the life I wanted. I knew that this was not a fit for me. But I'll tell you, I made the mistake that everybody makes. Instead of recognizing that that's how I felt, instead of channeling all of that angst and resistance and into looking for something else, I sat there miserable.

And I felt depleted and.

I felt awful. I'm going to confess this.

To you.

I didn't even take the advice then. You know what happened to me? I got pregnant and I had a baby and I went on maternity leave. And when I was on maternity leave, that's when with distance from it.

I was.

Like, okay, there is no way I'm going back there. No way. Now that I have escaped, there is no way I'm going back. And we've all had exes like that where you're in it for so long, you finally let it go and break off. And they're like, what the hell was I thinking? Now that I'm on the other side and I'm away from that energy suck, I don't want to go back to the energy sucker vampire thing. What the hell? But when you're in it, that negativity cortex can keep you spinning and stuck. You convince yourself, But I need the money, but I can't do this, but I don't have it. And then you're so depleted from your complaining and the outpouring of energy and the wrong thing that you're just stuck, stuck, stuck. That was me. So I get pregnant, I go on maternity leave. Holy cow, I am free from the cortex of negativity. I've been let go, but now I got to go back. And so my husband, Chris, says to me, Look, I know you don't want to go back, but here's the problem, Mel. We have a mortgage and we have a baby and you will go crazy being home.

And so here's the thing. You need to find a job. Your maternity leave ends in exactly three months. So that means you have 12 weeks to find a job and you have to make $60,000 a year. That's it. And you know what's interesting? If you give a human being a problem to solve, we get pretty creative. And I'll tell you what, the night before my maternity leave, I not only landed a job, it wasn't for 60 grand. It was for 55, but that was enough. And I walked in the next day and I let go. What do you say?

I.

Guess I quit. But they didn't let me go. I quit. But so what I'm trying to say is do not make the mistake that 30-year-old Mel Robbins made. Do not do that to yourself. Do not waste a year of your life spinning in that negativity energy cortex. Your body knows, your spirit knows. Get rid of those pants. Push that project to the side that you don't feel inspired to work on anymore. Let it go because it is sucking your vitality dry. And I want to just remind you that we're talking about reciprocal energy exchange. That's why these situations of the pants that don't fit and the friend that's engaging in toxic behavior or the job that sucks your soul dry, there is nothing that you're getting in return. Nothing. In fact, what you're getting in return is more negativity. Those jeans in your closet make you feel bad about yourself. It's bringing you negative energy.

That's the job.

That you're complaining about that you go to day to day convincing yourself you can't leave, you can't find something.

It's.

Bringing negative energy into your life. And so these situations are super easy to spot. Because there's no reciprocal value to the relationship or the pants or the project, period. Now what I want to talk about is the more complicated situations. Those situations where it's not clear.

Where you feel guilty.

Where maybe you're taking care of an agent parent or a child that's struggling with mental health stuff and it is depleting as hell. Or maybe you are struggling with friendship or in relationships because you have old patterns of behavior that you don't realize are interfering with this free, flowing, reciprocal, give and take that really brings amazing things into your life. Anna is coming at other people's reactions from a slightly different angle. Hi, Mel. My name is Anna. I just saw your.

Stories and.

Thought I'd.

Send over.

A question that I've been having.

My question is more about... Well, I consider myself a very independent person and I'm definitely very disciplined in what I do, but that leads me to live a life that is very different.

From most of the.

People I surround myself with, I guess. So my question is more of.

How to really hone in on that discipline and keep living the life that you.

Know you.

Should be living even.

When others don't understand it or just don't get why you're doing it. Thanks.

Anna, I love this.

Question because.

You are making a mistake that every single one of us makes when we start to live a life that is truly aligned with what we want to be doing. Everybody that you're surrounded with right now has been on the road with you up until this point. But they have no idea what your day to day life is like moving forward because they're not living the same life. And here's what I want you to understand. When this happens and you start to make very deliberate changes, whether it's in your health or maybe you've launched a business or you are just tired of a gossipy, social climbing circle of friends, and now you're seeking deeper meaning in your life, you don't have to ditch those people. They can continue to be in your life, and they will be part of the rest of your life. But they're never going to understand what you're going through because they don't live the day-to-day life that you're living. And a major mistake that I see people making is as we're making major changes, we turn to our existing friends and our family for counsel, and they have absolutely no idea what we're going through.

So, for example, there are very few people on the planet who actually understand what I do for a living. I can count them on one hand. When it comes to speaking on corporate stages, hosting a podcast, creating content for people like Starbucks and LinkedIn and Audible, to being an entrepreneur, to having the social media following, to having a marriage and a family, very few.

People.

That understand the pressure I'm under, the impact that I'm making, the goals, the hopes, the dreams, the frustrations. My husband doesn't understand it. He's not in that world. My kids don't understand it. My friends don't understand it. If I want somebody to truly understand what my.

Life looks like, I got.

To pick up the phone and call Jay.

Shettie or.

Jenna Kutcher or Trent Shelton, like somebody who is doing what I'm doing. And it goes for everything. I'm in the middle of menopause.

I talked on the... I asked a couple of episodes.

Ago about this bread basket that I'm feeling on my waist and hormone stuff. I'm not going to go to a 28-year-old fitness freak in my family and ask them for advice about my stomach. They don't understand what I'm going through. And so I'm making this point because when it comes to people pleasing and when it comes to putting yourself first, the way that you continue to create discipline is twofold. You have to get super intentional about seeking out more people in your life, either through mastermind groups or following people on social media or attending online classes or going to different events. You've got to.

Find people.

Who are up to what you're up to because they'll understand, they'll support you. And you have.

To stop.

Seeking validation from the people that are already around you, because that's not why you're doing this thing. And here's one more thing I want to tell you. Why do you care what they think? You already said you're independent.

You already said you're putting yourself first.

Why on Earth would you seek validation or advice from somebody whose lives you wouldn't trade lives with? Just stop asking people who are miserable or unqualified to validate your happiness, your life, your choices.

You got to validate yourself.

By making decisions that work for you. Stop looking for validation from other people, particularly other people who don't even understand themselves or what you're doing. Because if they can't understand themselves, if they don't understand what you're even trying to do, there's no way in hell they're ever going to understand or endorse what you're doing. Instead, start looking to people who have made the changes that you want to make, who have the values that you want to make. Not only do they understand what it takes to make this change, but they also have the confidence in the track record and the experience to cheer you on.

Well.

We've covered a lot of ground, and I think you're starting to realize, wow, this people pleasing thing isn't really about saying no, it's about self-awareness. It's about my ability to catch those moments where those uncomfortable feelings rise up and to tolerate them. It's about my ability to know that there are going to be times in my life where I'm going to be making decisions that people that I deeply love are going to be.

Disappointed.

By, and I can make space for both. There are going to be times in my life where I'm pursuing a change in my lifestyle that nobody around me understands, nobody else is pursuing. And I got to stop this default of seeking validation and advice from the people who don't understand what I'm doing. And when you.

Learn.

How to do that and start making decisions that really empower you in the long run, your life is going to change. It's going to be more meaningful. It's going to be richer, deeper. You're going to feel more agency and control in your life. And I know what you're thinking right now. I know here's what you're thinking, Mel, dear God, do I want this? But if I'm the person that has never, ever, ever put myself first.

How the heck.

Do I even know when to do it? And let me tell you something. First, you have to go back to the beginning and become self-aware, and you have to get deliberate about defining the person you are becoming. Let's hear this final question from a listener to this podcast named Nella.

Hi, Mel. I am a big.

Fan from Ireland.

My name is Nella.

I'm a singer-songwriter.

Something that I definitely struggle with is.

With.

Masking.

And being afraid to show up as my true.

Authentic self.

To all people at all times. Yeah, just any advice would be amazing on how to just.

Get better at doing.

That and have the.

Confidence to just be my authentic, true self all the time. That would be great. Thank you.

Nella, thank you first and foremost for your honesty. But I'm going to say something a little provocative. You kept saying the words true, authentic self, authentic self, authentic self. And I want you to stop and ask yourself, do you even know who you are? Do you know what it means when you say, I am my true, authentic self? And the reason why I'm asking you this question is because I don't think most people do. I think we want to be our authentic selves. Of course. But what does that even mean? Listening to your question, it reminds me when I was writing The High Five Habit, there was a woman who wrote to me from Ireland, and I ended up getting on the phone and then on a Zoom call. And I spent a lot of time talking to her. And she is in the book. And I want to bring this up because I want to make a point about the pressure that we feel to conform. So in this example of the woman from Ireland, she was writing about the fact that she wanted to get divorced. That is her true, authentic self.

Yet she.

Had been delaying doing this for seven years because of the pressure of the Catholic Church, because of the disappointment of her mother, because of what the priests might think, because of what the whole fricking country of Ireland might think.

And so I'm highlighting this because for.

Some of us, people pleasing is even deeper than this discomfort. It's the social norm. You wouldn't be.

Caught dead.

In some cultures or in some religions or in some households veering from the norm. The pressure is so intense, it's just the air that you breathe. And for many people, that is the case. And so if.

That's.

You, you might not even know what the authentic you is because you have.

Been told.

For so long by your country, by your religion, by your family, by the.

Community you live in, by whatever.

Who you're supposed to be. And I'm going to give you a really important exercise. I want you to just imagine that you are a screenwriter, that you are about to write a movie about the real you. Write a character description and describe a day in the life of the real you. Remove the country you live in, remove the religion you grew up with or you didn't. Remove the stories that you've been telling yourself or the pressure you feel or the disappointment or what other people think you should or shouldn't do. And write the story, a day in the life of who you are at your core. When you would wake up, where you would live, where.

You would.

Go, what work you do, what friends that you have? What are your habits? What do you love doing? Who are you laughing with? This is such an important exercise because, again, remember I told you that people pleasing, it's a balance. And it begins with you truly knowing yourself. And if you don't really know who you are because you've always been told who to be and you've spent your life feeling like you do nothing but conforming, this is a really important.

Step.

For you to take.

Because.

People pleasing at its core is you believing the person that you are deep inside that it's not good enough. You're not good enough. Based on what we've talked about, you can start to change that. But you really have to go through the steps of getting curious about who you are for real. And if the idea of you having a conversation like I did with my dad, or you telling somebody that you're not coming over for dinner because you're tired and that's the truth, or saying that, No, you can't borrow my pickup truck again. I don't lend it out anymore. If that makes you really uncomfortable, here's a tool that you can use to start to experiment with that moment of discomfort. And the tool is called Switch, and this comes from research.

You don't have to say yes.

You're going to go from saying, Sure, I'll let you borrow my car, or, Sure, we'll come to things. Or, Sure, I'll do that, or, Yes, yes, yes, yes. Instead of saying no, switch to a pause. I'll think about it. Let me check my calendar.

I'll get back to you on that.

When you switch your.

Yes.

To a pause and you buy yourself some time.

You're going to feel a little.

Less pressure. For example, when you say, Let.

Me get back to you, 20 minutes later.

You can email back and say, Thank you so much for the invitation. I'm booked. Or send no over text if it's too hard to say it in person or say no over the phone if you don't want to say it to their face. But switching from feeling the pressure to say yes to putting yourself in a pause, that's what I want you to practice.

Because if you can say, I'll get back to you.

Let me think about it. You got time to settle those uncomfortable feelings, because remember, it's not about the other person. It's about you not being able to tolerate that discomfort that rises up. And then you immediately make the discomfort going away by going, okay, fine, I'll do it. No. Switch into pause. Switch into pause, because in that pause, you're going to find some peace. In that pause is where you're going to find that balance. And I'm going to give you one more quick little example about how this works.

So.

Last week, I was in Las Vegas, and we were on day 15 of a 16-day business trip. And we landed late and we did a tech check because I was delivering a speech in the morning. And we were about to head up to the hotel. It was eight o'clock at night. And I turned to my friends, and I'm like, We should probably get something to eat because we haven't eaten since lunch. I know it's late, and we're going to get up early, and then I'm going to have to race and do this speech, and we're not have any food in our stomach. So we went straight to the steakhouse that was in the casino. We walk in there wearing sweats off an airplane. It is 8:30 at night.

This.

Place has a freaking DJ in.

The bar. People are.

Thumping, and bumping, and glitters, and sparkles everywhere. They seat us right away in the bar at a high top. The three of us order immediately because we are going to shovel down that food.

I got the filet mignon.

And some mashed.

Potatoes.

And we got mocktails.

Right above our head was this speaker that was like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like we were. I mean, it was like zero to 1,000 inside this place. I was not ready for this. I just wanted to get some protein in my stomach and get to bed because I had a speech to give, and I was exhausted. So we're eating and we're bopping and talking. Right when the steak comes, I hand her my credit card signaling, bring me the check right away. I'm part of the clean plate club. I am done.

I have.

Finished in probably 11 seconds flat. Melinda, who is at the table with us, she is done, too. I look over at Amy. She is eating in slow motion. She is enjoying every bite. I think she is engaged in a mindfulness meditation with this steak and salad at this point.

And as I.

Assess what is left on her plate, I think.

This.

Is going to fucking take her 20 minutes to eat. It is 9:30 at night.

I am exhausted.

This is the moment I'm talking about everybody. This is the balance. Because the wave of discomfort comes up in my body. I want to leave. I want to go to bed. And I don't want to be a douche. I mean, here one of my closest friends is sitting here enjoying a salad. We've been on the.

Road together. I'm like.

A ride or die person.

What a jerk.

Leaves.

Their female.

Friend alone at a high top in a bar.

With a salad.

That has.

85.

Percent to go in terms of completion just because they're tired? I do. That's a joke. It's a balancing act. I said to myself, Well, what's really going to serve me? And what's really going to serve me, because my.

Number one job.

Is to kill it in that speech tomorrow.

Is to ask.

Amy if it would be okay for me to go upstairs and just go to bed. And I felt that discomfort because the old Mel would have been like.

I would have just sat there.

Because it would be rude to leave somebody. And oftentimes, we don't even ask. We don't even ask. And Amy is sitting right over there. So, Amy, I want you to get on the mic because I wrote the balancing act, I used the tools, and I turned to her because a lot.

Of this is also about.

The context, and it's about how you say it. It's not what you're saying, it's how you say it.

Andand.

So you don't be like, I'm leaving.

Out of here, bitches.

That's not what I said.

I just said.

Amy.

Would it be okay if I head upstairs and go to sleep?

I'm exhausted. And, Amy, what was your experience at this moment? As I'm clean plating it and you've got probably 20 minutes left?

Yeah. I mean, you're a fast eater. So that was number one. And I felt like when you asked me and you said, You mind if I go upstairs? I felt like, Thank God, because I would not want her to sit and watch me and my Llama eating habits, super slow and just savoring every bite. I wouldn't want that to be the case. I want you to do you. And I want me to enjoy my salad and-.

I'm not making a mistake. So when you noticed that my plate was clean and so is Melinda's, and you still had 20 minutes to go, what were you feeling?

Well, I'm often in this situation. I felt like, I know what's going to happen next. They're going to want to leave. And I'm happy to do that. I felt really happy for you to get what you needed, and I needed to get what I needed.

I wanted you to hear that, and this is why. You often don't even ask. And Amy was.

Relieved that I.

Asked because you know what? She doesn't want to sit there and.

Feel pressure.

She wanted to enjoy her salad, and that's exactly what she did. Melinda and I went upstairs. She sat there for another 25 minutes bopping and weaving, alone.

Having the best.

Salad of her life without her annoying friends sitting there staring at her like she was some zoo animal. So we all won. Bottom line, people pleasing. It's not about the other people, it's about you. So notice when it comes up, notice that discomfort. Find the strength to say, no, I'm not going to sit here with this discomfort and do something that doesn't serve me. When you have the ability to recognize this and you have the ability to say, no, I'm not going to just fall into line. No means that you're in charge of your life. No strengthens your self-discipline. No keeps your goals and your happiness front and center. It can make you stronger so that you change patterns and habits that don't serve you. Because when you don't say no, you're saying yes to something else. It is powerful. When you say no, I am.

Not going to.

Do that.

I'm going to.

Ride this uncomfortable wave, and I'm going to do what works for me. And I'm going to know at the end that you can be disappointed and you're still going to love me. But I'm going to love myself a little bit more, because every time you say yes to you, you are to yourself that you deserve to be happy. You deserve to have support. You deserve to go to bed in Vegas because it's late and you deserve to have that room back because you need it and you deserve to do things that really work for you. So starting today, start saying no, start tolerating the discomfort. Switch your yes to a pause and put yourself back in charge.

Your happiness.

Your life, it starts with you always, always, always, always. And I know you can do it. And I want you to do it. And you don't have to prove anything to me. You got to prove it to yourself. Hey, it's Mel.

Thank.

You so much for checking this video out. And if you like this one, I have a feeling you're going to like this one too.

I'll see you there.