Hi, I'm Christina Applegate.

And I'm Jamie Lynn Sigler.

And this is Messy.

Hi, guys.

Hi.

Let's do this.

Are we going to talk in that voice? I have. Sometimes. From SNL.

Oh, you have a good one.

That talks about lady balls or what is that sketch? You know what I'm talking about, right?

What's a lady ball?

I need to know. No. You remember that sketch that was on SNL of the two women doing a radio show?

Yes, of course.

And they talk about weird stuff, like balls? Yes.

Here we are. We've talked about this for quite some time, and we're finally doing it. This is Jamie. You want to introduce yourself?

Christina. I thought we would do our full names. Would you like to say who you are?

Sure. I'll do my full name. My name is Jamie Lynn Sigler. But if you know me well, you would just call me Jamie. So that's how I would prefer to be called in this realm, because I think we're going to get really up close and personal here.

I feel like I really have to get close to my microphone now, so it sounds as sexy as your voice. My name is Christina. No middle name. Fruit Fence.

At all? You have no middle name?

No. They couldn't think of anything to go with Christina and Applegate.

You know what? Christina Applegate is a really solid name. I get it.

It's pretty solid. People thought that I made that up, and I'm like, Really?

Anyway- It's not your stage name.

It's your real name. No, it is my given. It's my given. I was named after a painting. We'll get to this in two seconds. In two seconds, I'm going to tell you something really weird. Anyway, I wanted to say we are two actresses who have this really fun sidebar called multiple sclerosias.

Joss. That's a beautiful pronunciation. I like the way you say it better than anybody else does.

.

Anything with an Italian accent sounds better.

Doesn't it? I can do French. I can do all things. I can't do Australian.

Never. Don't ever ask me.

Yeah. So this is our conversation about stuffs.

Yes. Yes. Christina and I have known each other for a long time through mutual friends, and we've had several hangouts here and there. But I think, unfortunately, but fortunately, we have each other. What's really bonded us and what's brought us here to this moment is the multiple scolosis. I can remember I got a text from our mutual friend, Mr. Lance Bass, and telling me- That's right. Telling me in confidence when you had found out the news. It was like another one of those things. Christina and I have very different... Well, I've had this disease for 22 years, and she's very new to this life. Not to say that my experience makes me any more knowledgeable or have any more credit. I mean, living with this, it's very unique.

Oh, that little MS street cred that we all.

That's right. I have no more street cred in the EU. But it was one of those moments where I was like, anytime I hear somebody that has it, it's like, fuck. It's just, God, another one? No. Another great person that I just don't want to have to live with this. But at the same time, you were honest and open and vulnerable in a way that took me 22 years to get to. So as much as you looked at me, looked to me initially to be like, what am I getting into? What do I need? Where do I go? Am I going to be okay? You opened this door for me to be like, yeah, this sucks. I really, for a long time, was afraid to say that because I thought it meant I was losing.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

No, continue your thought. Finish your thought because I have something to say upon that.

No, I've already forgotten it. Go. Okay.

Yeah, because we have We have MS. Finding out two years ago that this was now going to be my life, I was in the middle of shooting something, and I was scared to death. I was already past the point of hiding it. It was now very much at work. I couldn't walk. I couldn't stand for very long. I couldn't do all the things. And you Thank God for Lance and Michael, these are beautiful friends that we love so much, put me in contact with you. And I had heard about you having it, and I didn't really understand what it was. I just thought, oh, it's a death sentence. You're just going to die. I honestly thought that's what it is, but I didn't understand it was. But one thing you said to me was, Set your boundaries. And if you hadn't said that to me, I wouldn't have been able to finish up the last season of my show and do it because you gave me that power because I was scared. Been a workhorse my entire life, a child actor, and you show up on time, you show up early, you do everything for yourself.

You don't ask for anything. You work the 18 hours, and you said, Set your boundaries. And you shared some really personal things that we can talk about or not talk about. It's up to you. But you really got me through that last few months of working. So I really want to thank you for that.

I love you.

I love you too, Mama.

I think that's just such an important lesson for anybody, like MS or not, whatever you're living with. You get to a certain point in life where you learn how to set boundaries. And I think in our business and our industry, especially, I think when you grow up in it like we did, especially you, you really grew up in it. You want to please and you want to do your work and get your mark and make everybody happy. For me, I lived with it as a secret for 16, 17 years.

I can't believe you did that, Jamie. I cannot believe you lived as a secret.

Me neither. Me neither. It's because I could for quite some time until I couldn't. Then it became this long series of lies. I have a back issue. I must have tweaked my ankle because I got away with it as long as I could until people would be like, Are you limping? Are you okay? And I'm like, just brushing it off, brushing it off because I just didn't know what that would mean for me to say it out loud, to have anybody know I'll probably get fired, who would want me. And then it just became this terrible cycle of me doing the opposite of what you should do as an actor, planning exactly how I needed my scene to go so that once I was there, all I had to worry about was my body. I was not doing my best work, and I wasn't proud. I had to take a step back and a step away to really reevaluate my life, and I really knew I still wanted to act. If I was going to continue to do that, I had to set boundaries. I had to be honest, and I had to set the boundaries.

Now, every job I ever take, I have a call with the director and I say, Listen, here's what I can do. Here's what I can't do. As long as we have this squared away, we're good. I'm going to show up and do my job, and you don't need to expect any... Do anything extra or anything special for me. If you feel like it's going to get away with your creative vision or you're going to feel like this is going to be anything other than easy, I don't want it because then we're not going to have... Neither of us are going to be happy. I'm proud of myself that I've gotten to that point, but it's bled over into my personal life as well. We'll get into it so much of what this also has taught us, not just what it's taken away. But yes, the boundaries thing was huge.

Well, you definitely helped me and our set learn. Everyone was learning at the same time. So, of course, no one on the set was touched by MS. They were not... I mean, as far as our production, our directors, our writers, our creator, Except for one other person on there has been touched by MS. And that person was invaluable to me and telling me, You can't be in heat. We need to have the set be cool. Like, different little things that I didn't even know about, because I found out on a Monday night at 07:00 PM, after I just worked for 12 hours, I found out I had MS through a Zoom call with my doctor, and I had to call them the next day and go, Guess what, guys? It's not peripheral neuropathy or whatever they were telling me it is. I have a disease that's progressive and degenerative, and this is the deal. And I don't know how to deal with this. And I'm supposed to be at work at 6:00 in the morning tomorrow. And all those things came into play. And we were all learning together what I could do. And there were days where they were like, well, do you think you can do three more takes of walking across the room?

And because of you, I was able to say, no, I honestly can't. And it's not because I don't love you guys or I don't care about what we're doing, but I can't. And I've been pushing through this for a while now, and I'm taking my power right now. And as you were saying, I keep saying that I'm going to stop doing this because I'm afraid that I'm not going to be on a set that is going to be inclusive to what my needs are, our needs are.

And I'm going to let you say that for now because this is still very new. And I think that there is a grieving process that goes on.

Yeah, I'm two years.

So I'm still- And you also, through COVID and also the lead of an epic show that was on dependent on you and your talent. And yes, you had a beautiful support, but that's a lot. You actually are right now dealing with it.

Babies are yelling. Babies. They're like, yes, we know. Yes.

See, that's why we will always say, confirm it. Yes. That's a yes from the dogs.

Thank you.

Thanks, kids. But I think you're just dealing with it now. And that's why I've always said, I will let you say that you are done acting for now. But I think that there's, first of all, you're you. You are amazing and wonderful and important and so talented. And your talent is very singular and special, and there's no other person that's like you. And I think if you're willing, which is a place that I am only just willing to get to, but I think that you will get there faster than me. If you're willing to just play a woman that moves the way you move or that has MS or whatever it is, because we know very well, yes, I have MS, but I'm a wife, I'm a mom, I'm a friend, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister. I'm a lot of fucking things. But yeah, MS makes all of those things a lot harder for me, but they don't stop me from fulfilling all of those roles in my life. So to say that if you played a woman that had MS, it would have to be all about MS is bullshit.

And if anybody could I can't do that. It would be too sappy, soupy, soupy.

No, it doesn't have to be soupy, or sappy, or whatever. It can be hilarious because you and I know, you and I have had many long conversations, and we still laugh. Stuff about the absurdity, the bullshit that we deal with. You have to find humor in it. I'm not telling you anything you don't know or anybody doesn't know. But I think that there is... Whatever. I'm not going to press that on you now. But I do know that that's in your future, our future, whatever it is.

I do miss that because in all honesty, the only thing I ever had my entire life was work. I had a really shit upbringing. I had a shit cards dealt me as a kid. And I grew up on sets. That's where I grew up. It's all I know. All the inner workings, the outer workings of being on a set is all I really know. I'm the best first AD you'll ever have. I'm the best costume. I love that place. And I've taken this since we stopped working. Two implode, explode, be sad, watch a lot of crap TV, do whatever I need. I've never been able to sleep in. So it's been really nice to not have to be somewhere and not have be on and push. But I know that at some point I'm going to be like, okay, when does someone need me somewhere?

When does someone care? And there will be a lot of hands that will be raised.

I know. But I got to work on... I don't know. I physically just don't feel good, obviously. And I physically don't look like myself from lymphedema, which is something that we can discuss later on.

What is it?

What is lymphedema? Lymphedema. So Okay. So one of the symptoms of MS can be lymphedema, where your lymphatic system is not draining. Because as we know, MS slows down our organs, slows down our systems, our digestive system, our brains, all the things. I, unfortunately, have gotten lymphedema, so I don't know if it's from my medication or if it's part of... I'm not a doctor, so I don't want to sit here and say that this is because of MS, but my lymphatic system is not draining. So my hands are swelling up, my feet are swelling up, my knees are swelling up, my face is swelling up, my body is swelling up. And it's not like I'm sitting here eating burritos all day long. Nothing wrong with burritos. I fucking love burritos.

Burritos are great.

Give me a damn Paquito Mas burrito and I'm set for life. But see, you can see my fingertips are red. So I can feel it not moving, but But at the same time, I'm not moving. Because if I wake up in the morning and my feet aren't working and I have to get to the bathroom, I get so upset that I just want to lay back in bed and put the TV on again. So I'm also not moving. Those are things that I think a lot of people with MS who are new to it, too, just want to close the curtains and say, fuck off to the world. And that's where I'm at right now. And that's my honesty is I'm in the fuck off.

And you're allowed to. And again, I never did the fuck off. I was too afraid to do the fuck off. I was working like you, but I didn't think anybody would care to still want me around with this. I think it took a lot of self-work to find out that I still have the same value despite having MS. I didn't realize. I remember my husband one time was, I said something, Well, they wouldn't want me because of this. And he was like, Why do you think you are less important because you have a disease? And I didn't even realize that that was my way of thinking. And also really accepting the fact that this has rendered me somewhat disabled. When you have a... When you grow up Like you, Christina, I mean, I grew up dancing and performing and on stage, and your body is your vessel of expression and everything. And to feel so restricted and to feel like you can't do what you once did, it takes, I don't know if you ever get over it, but it takes a lot to deal with. I think while this disease has It's done a lot to my body, I think the emotional and spiritual ride that it's taken me on as long and heavy and hard as it's been, I am.

This is where maybe my 22 years can come in handy is I do feel a lot of gratitude for it. Like, who I am today, I am not sure I would be had I not.

Yeah, I'm not there yet, James. I know. But I will say the other day, Sadie was asking me to show her a perfect tondeu or a perfect degage, right? Because we were watching Dance Moms, and I was saying, Oh, I feel nothing from this number, whatever. And I said, I wish someone would say to these dancers, Push past that place, where the toe and the feet go past into a spiritual zone, where your hands don't just be beautiful, but stretch out and be beautiful. So I was showing her, falling over a little bit. And she just said to me, You still got it, Mama. And my heart, I'm going to cry. My heart just broke because it was so hard for me to just show her that. But she recognized. She goes, You still got it. And that's the effect it has on our children seeing Sadie is twelve now, so she's been seeing me like this for two years. She lost her hiking partner, her dance partner, her tennis partner, all the things that we used to do together. She's lost that, and that's been an incredible weight on her shoulders and trying to come in.

And the only time she gets to hang out with Mama is laying in bed at this point right now. I I don't know how to get out of this rut. And I'm sure there are a lot of people that if they are listening to us, that this rut of self loathing and self just giving up. Yeah. I don't want to give up for her. That's the most important thing.

Of course. But also for you.

I'm on the back burner right now. That's where I'm at, to be really honest. I'm so far on the back burner. Her, but she is the thing that keeps me going.

Well, we all need something until we get there. You know what I mean? And she's the coolest, so I understand why.

I can't wait for you to meet her. I did.

I met her when you came to the pool. Don't you remember?

Oh, that's right. That's right. That's right. Sorry. Okay. I'm sorry. That's right. But she's changed so much since then, since the pool. She's She's definitely her own human. That's very tough.

Of course. She's your daughter. She's not going to be a pussy.

Oh, no. We don't do pussy in this house.

That's what I figured. That's what I figured.

And if there are pussies in this house, they are unshaven and disgusting and not really showered.

Isn't that back in? Isn't that back? I just saw something. I I saw something on Instagram, though, saying Gen Z's thing is being unkept and not showering. Oh my God.

I so fit in.

You're so Gen Z. You're so trendy.

Even though I'm really as Gen X as a person can be, but now I feel pretty cool. I feel pretty dope. Do people say that anymore?

You're pretty dope. I do. I hope so.

No, I don't think anyone does.

To to wrap up the little sappiness of this, I will say that a turning point for me in this was allowing the harder feelings to really live with me. For instance, doubt. Doubt's a big one for me. I've had a lot of people, well-intentioned people over the past however many years being You got to go to this doctor. You got to try this. You got to do this, this, this, this, this. And I've been disappointed a lot. And so doubt has been a big thing for me, and something I've always pushed away because I thought, Oh, the doubt is why I'm not getting better. The doubt is why I'm not healing. The doubt is why nothing's working. And they had this turning point once where I was just like, You know what? No. I have every right to feel doubt. And I allowed myself to really sit with that negative feeling that I tried to always push away or judge myself for having. And in that process, I was able to let it go. But I think that, like we said, allowing yourself to really sit in the shit is hard.

Yeah. I'm sitting in the shit. In fact, I'm very unapologetic to my friends. I don't have many that are around. I have two friends that come around, and I'm like, I'm so sorry, I'm not emotionally available for you. I'm not. If you come into my room and you start crying, I'm going to get bitter and angry because I honestly, I don't have it in me to be like, let me take you under my wing. I don't have any wings right now. I'm a wingless bird. I am a flightless bird right now. And it feels really shitty to say that. I had to be very honest about the fact that I'm not ready for that. But anyway.

Well, let's go back to you. Tell me about your name again. Let's just really do a hard left right now. Back to-Okay. Yeah. Okay.

So it's really poetic. So my mom saw this Andrew Wyeth painting in New York when she used to live in New York, and it's called Christina's World. And it's a beautiful painting of a crippled woman crawling across a field to her home in the distance. If anyone wants to look it up, Christina's World, Google, there you go. Never thought about that in my whole life. And I was cleaning some stuff up the other day, and I saw it again. I have it framed down in my basement where I have a pool table and stuff. And there it was. And there's someone crawling to her home. And my mom actually wrote a song called Christina's World. Her name's Nancy Pretty. You can also Google that, P-R-I-D-D-Y. Then she named a dog after the painting, and then she named me after the dog, but actually after the painting. So it's all the things, like dog painting me. But it's a disabled woman without use of her legs. And I was down there actually playing pool with my friend the other night. And not like I have a bunch of people here. I have people that take care of me on the weekends, like two friends.

And we were playing pool, and there it was. And it like, stabbed me in the heart of that. But there's also this beauty and hope in the painting as well.

Yes. I was going to say, I'm sure there's more to that painting than just this one.

Her name was Christina. She was a real person. I think her name was Christina Olson, and Andrew Wyeth knew her, and she had no use of her legs. And who knows why she didn't have use of her legs? Because it's from- I have chills.painted in the 1930s or something.

Wow.

I don't think that was a really fun story, but that's where it was named. That was how I was named.

I appreciate you telling me that story. That's crazy. Look, one of the other things that you and I talked about, with this podcast, the purpose of this podcast, while we wanted to start this podcast, obviously- You be the guy.

You be the guy.

Anytime. Obviously, we both share and we live with this disease, but we persevere. We push through. We're still living. We've We've got children, we've got dreams, we've got hopes, but we're honest and we're real in the moment. We live moment to moment, sometimes day to day, minute to minute, all you can focus on. I think we're interested in not only our daily lives with this, because we've talked about the fact that, and I've mentioned this to you, I have a really good friend who said to me once, when we ran into each other, I was like, Hey, how are you? She was like, Do you really want to know?

Yeah.

And I said, What do you mean? And she said, I don't know if you realize how are you is probably the most loaded question you can actually ever ask anybody. And it stopped me in my tracks.

Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. Because when you and I speak, when you and I get on the phone and we say, How are you? We're like, We're like two hours later, and we're going on because we're being real. We're saying, Well, today... And that anyone Anyone could say that. Anyone. And I have a personal interest in you.

But most people don't want to know how you are. They don't.

It's not that they don't want to know. They maybe just can't handle what you're about to give them.

No, that's exactly what I mean. I was actually someone that I trusted in my life that was a friend, quote unquote, left a message on someone's machine about how I was so woe is me because she would ask me how I was And I would say how I was. But apparently, it was too, woe is me for that person. So then I got scared of being honest about how I was. I was like, well, I guess other people can't handle it. And that was actually an agreement I made with myself many years ago in relationships. The dude needs it more than I do. They need the attention more than I do. I already get all the attention. They need it more than I do. So I put myself back. But to hear it from another girl, I was like, wow, that's really fucked up. I can't just say how I feel. And that put a boundary between me and other people when they asked how I am. So I put my little mask on and went, I'm good. I'm fine. I'm dealing. Fine, as people know, is fucked up, insecure, neurotic, and emotional. So there you go.

Now I know. I learned something new today. Thank you.

Didn't you know?

You didn't know that? I did not Fucked up, insecure, neurotic, and emotional.

That's how you are.

This is a podcast where we're going to ask you, How are you? And we're prepared to listen because that's who we are. And if anything, that's what this terrible disease has taught us to really appreciate, to sit with, be present with, pay attention to. There's no ignoring anything when you have MS. There's no ignoring anything when you have a chronic illness. But more than anything, what somebody reminded me, and I have to remind myself constantly, though, is everybody has something. I'm also saying, MS is not urinized the only thing, we've got a lot of things. Everybody has things that they carry with them everywhere. I will say it sucks a lot of the time that our thing is on the outside. So you almost have to talk about it or people ask about it a lot, or it's right there. But it has really taught me to be comfortable with being vulnerable.

You are my hero because I look at you and I see this poised, beautiful woman And I'm like this dirty piece of shit in my bed going, I just want to watch Bravo. And nothing wrong with Bravo, as we will get to in some times, how much Bravo means. Excuse me.

Those are the only people I want guests on this podcast.

No, it's going to be the only people that I'm going to be friends with for the rest of my life. And we're going to have them on our show, which I've got their digits, personal digits.

You're good, GMR.

But I don't know how to do this yet, James. I don't know how to do this yet.

And that's what I'm here for you for.

I know. But also I think we're here for anyone who... When I had cancer, I became the go-to for anyone who knew anyone who had cancer called me. I'm some fucking authority on the fact. I helped so many women through their mastectomies and stuff, being there three o'clock in the morning, you want to call me? You want to talk about it? Great. And I could do that. But I've been asked recently about people with MS to talk to them, and I can't because I'm not on the other side. And the thing is, there is no other side for me right now. There's no other side. Cancer, they got rid of. I don't have to deal with it. This is my forever. So I don't know how to speak to someone and inspire them or help them through it or whatever the fuck. I'm like, Yeah, guess what? It's crap.

That's not your responsibility. And I don't think that's why people are going to you.

I know, but it's like, I feel like it's like, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I think, yes. Look, people are like, I have MS. Tell me what to do. There's no hand up.

Give me the doctors. Can you get me into your doctor? No, I actually can't.

Right.

I'm sorry.

I get it.

No. I don't I'm laying in bed crying. So I don't know how to help you.

And that's a boundary.

There you go.

That's a fucking boundary. That's a boundary.

Yeah. My boundary is like, please don't call me about your... I can't with your...

Well, that was a thing, too. When I came out about it, I was the first person, like, young- You were. To come out about it. And then there was Salma and everybody. But I had to learn very quickly, oh, just because I'm a whatever level celebrity, I'm not responsible to be the spokesperson of it. The advocate. No. I'm living with it. It's not like it was something in the past, and I can share with you. I'm still going through it. Am I happy to be open and honest and as encouraging as I can be of what I found to help me deal with this? Absolutely. When I feel good enough to do that.

That's what I was going to say. I've been invited to all these things, right? And I'm like, I can't be an advocate. I can barely advocate for myself right now. And until I can advocate for myself, I cannot be a poster child for this because I'm just going to be a sobbing mess and go, this sucks. I'm not going to be able to be an inspiration in any way, shape, or form at this moment. It's not going to happen.

But here's why you are an inspiration. Here's why, to me, anybody is an inspiration because you're fucking living with it. And that's what I mean. We're all living with things. That's what we just said. We're all living with things, and sometimes people don't wish to share them. And that's a boundary. Great. That's cool. But for us, we don't have a choice, right? Because it's so physical. It's so out there. It's so there. Or it's the reason why we're not here or you're not doing anything.

How many of that copy of that book from that one lady have you gotten from people?

Which one?

I'm not going to say her name.

You know what I'm talking about? I was at work between takes, between takes, a I thought was coming to give me direction and was like, Have you listened to this person and their podcast? And I'm like, Really? Between takes, are you going to tell me the diet I need to be on right now? Come on.

Seriously. I can't. I get it.

But it also- It's lovely.

And it's lovely. It's people trying to love on us. It's lovely and it's sweet. And I get it.

But also, too, I'm like, I walk the way I walk. I get it. I'm sorry if it makes you feel uncomfortable, but this is it. This This is how I move. I'm sorry if... I also think there's this point that I get to where I have to stop feeling like I need to fix myself.

Yeah. I know. I've had friends recently been I'm like, I hope you're just taking care of yourself. I'm like, What else would I be doing? I'm not sitting here eating Doritos and shooting heroin. I'm like living each day by the moment because I don't know what next moment is going to happen. I don't know if one day I'm going to wake up and my feet are completely numb and I'm going to fall over, or maybe I'm going to have a day where I walk through New York City and get on the subway, which I did a couple of months ago, and it was amazing. And guess what? The next day, my body said, thanks, but no, thanks. So I don't know. Sure, I can eat this. I mean, I've recently found out because of MS, I have a stomach like a GERD. Gerd is a really fun- What's a GERD? Gerd. Gerd. Or Croses. Or MS can present itself as Croses, GERD, or celiac. And all of a sudden, I don't know if you know this. I didn't know this.

No.

Not at all, because I was in the hospital four times in the last year for vomiting profusely. And it's just a symptom of MS. It's like MS. I'm not going to have anything. Otherwise, I'm going to puke.

As if this isn't hard enough, now you got to restrict the food you eat. Come on, this isn't fair. It's a very individual. It's a very... I ate pizza yesterday.

I don't really care. And I had diarrhea today. So there you go.

Well, you know.

I paid my price, but it was delicious.

It's all about balance. But we're going to learn as this goes, MS is very personal. It's very individual. It affects everybody very differently. But- Yeah. Yes. This podcast, as you were just going to say- Brings it to our point. Yes.

What is our point? The name of our story.

What is it?

Messy.

It's so messy.

So messy.

But it's a beautiful mess. It's a funky mess. It is a beautiful mess. It's an ever-changing mess. It's messy. It's messy.

It's messy.

But that's okay. It's M-S-S-Y.

See.

You'll learn. Christina is the punny one here.

I'm so punny.

I'm so punny. I can't wait for all the puns that you're going to bring out.

There's going to be so many. It's going to get real awkward.

Why? This is my favorite vibe. What do you mean? Give me an awkward vibe every day.

I have so many things to discuss, and I hope people are listening and going, Oh, my God. I was going to say something really quickly.

Yeah, you don't have to be quick.

It's not going to be a show constantly talking about MS. No. I had a friend who was a public figure who was going through Cancer. And I said to her, be honest about your journey because don't say, I'm a warrior, I'm a this, I'm a that. And this was my advice. This is just me because I knew that by her being honest with it, someone was going to feel less alone and then also feel empowered in that moment. And I think that by what we're talking about is we're not sitting here going like, get on the bike. Yes, get on the bike. Actually, get on the bike if you can. But if it's dangerous, don't fuck around with that.

But- Go to the MS gym.

Oh, yes. At TheMS gym on Instagram is our hero, Trevor Wicken. And he's changing the lives of so many people.

If you're going to do anything, go to the MS gym. I didn't mean to interrupt you.

No, no, no. You talk.

No, I'm done.

Because we love him so much. I miss him. I haven't- Trevor's the best.

He's one of the most knowledgeable. Yeah, let this be the little... Every week, we'll give you one little nugget of healing, okay? We're not going to push things the way other people have. Maybe we can just give one nugget that's helped us each week. This week, let's give Trevor. Trevor is a hero, an angel who literally, after 22 years of living with MS, finally made me understand what the hell was happening inside my body and how I could and what neuroplasticity was, and how I could override certain things that have felt lost or weakened. He has empowered me to feel like there's room to grow and get better.

Yeah.

But without expectations, like I'm going to run again or I'm going to this. Just has connected me and redefined my relationship with my body, which has not been a healthy one for quite some time. I felt quite betrayed by it for so long. He's the best. We love him. He literally... There's a whole system. From day one, whether you're in a wheelchair or whatever it is, he will guide you through a year long process of physical therapy, basically. And you, Christina, who introduced me to him on Instagram.

And you still work with him. I haven't worked with him for a couple of months because I went into my I hate everything about life moments. And he'll text me sometimes. He's like, Hey, girl- He loves you. He loves you. I know. I love him, too. But, yes, He... But I still lay in bed and I do my little twisty toe nerve awakening things for people who have this. For anyone who's listening who doesn't have MS, we're going to talk about other stuff. We will. We're going to talk about other That's it.

What guests are we going to have?

Bravo.

Bravo, Leberties.

Bravo, Leberties.

Bravo, Leberties. Some friends, some friends that we've worked with, some friends that we've met.

Some good people that we adore.

Yeah, only good people. There's only good people on the Messy podcast. No assholes.

And so it is.

And so it is. And we will end with and so it is. But should we give them what and so it is means to us just once so we can explain it? So and so it is happens to be tattooed on my wrist, soon to be tattooed on your foot, correct?

Yep, my right foot. My good leg.

And so it is an affirmation. It is how we would believe to end a prayer or a wish or whatever it is because it's a trust in the universe. It's... What else? Christina, help me.

I've been going to a church called Agape for almost my whole life. People may know Reverend Michael Beckwith. We don't need to get into that, but we love the Reverend Michael. And so it is actually what amen means in Arabic. I think. Look it up. Pretty damn sure. It just means, and it is so. It is so. It is what we are affirming for ourselves. It is so. The prayer that we are doing, it is so. There's not a begging. There's not a pleading. It is so.

It's a trust. So it is. It's faith. It's trust. Yes.

And you want to do a card reading?

Okay. Yeah. So I'd like to- You do yours.

I'm going to run and get mine. Okay.

So I like to pick these inspirational cards every once in a while and be cheesy like that. So we will always leave you with our inspirational card of the week. And this week's says this, We don't receive wisdom. We must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us. Ain't that the fucking truth?

Ain't that the truth? Now, I'm going to do these Eckert Tolle ones. Do it. So say when.

Ready, go.

Okay.

Oh, shit. What is it?

The dogs are barking. Okay, listen to this. Every time you walk up and down the stairs in your house or place of work, play... Sorry, I can't even read. I'm laughing too hard. Pay close attention to every step, every movement, even your breathing. Be totally present. So we don't fucking fall down them.

Fuck you, Eckartole.

Wait, literally?

That's what it said. You know what? That was meant for this moment. That was meant for this moment. I'm I got to breathe every time I go up and down the damn steps. Every time we walk up and down the stairs. Okay.

Thanks a lot. And so it is. And so it is. This show is executive-produced by Christina Applegate, Jamie Lynn Siegler, and Allison Breznik. Our audio engineer is Josh Windish.

If you want to show us some love, don't forget to leave the show a rating or review. Jamie. Thanks for listening. I just want to let you know I am a paid spokesperson for Novartis, but this podcast is independent from my collaboration with Novartis.