Hi, I'm Christina Applegate.

And I'm Jamie Lynn Sigler.

And this is Messy.

Hello.

Hi. How are you?

Honest.

Only?

I'm in relapse right now.

Pretty bad. Babe, what does that mean for you? I'm so sorry.

Intense pain in my legs, not being able to walk to the bathroom without feeling like I'm going to fall. Insane tingling that just has spurts of tingles that are weird coming from my butt down. And then I haven't slept for 24 hours because my eye is doing something weird where every time I close my eye to go to sleep, my right eye starts to shift like this. I don't know if that's something you have ever had or if anyone who's been listening has I've never had, but I'd love to know if they have because I tried looking it up last night, and it can be a symptom of MS that could be some possible damage to the optic nerve in my eye, and I couldn't sleep because every time I would close my eyes, my eye would start doing crazy shit. So I have been up for over 24 hours.

Oh, my God, Christina.

Yeah.

Are you in touch with, obviously, your doctor?

Yeah, we texted them yesterday and haven't heard back from them about it. Definitely, I'm going to have to go in and see someone because it's a little scary and it's freaking me out that my eye is going to burst out of my face or something. So I'm a little concerned. About that. And my legs have never been this bad. So I don't know what's going on. No energy.

Legs are just done.

I can't get circulation. I can't get to stop hurting.

No matter what you do. And that sometimes happens. And that's, to me, one of the most frustrating things about this is sometimes you could be doing all of the right things and it's not fixing the problem like it normally would.

So then you do all the wrong things and you just lay in a dark room watching TV and wanting it all to just go away. And that's where I'm at. How are you?

Well, I'm okay. I'm fine. Last week, it's funny because I've actually talked about it with a couple of people, and I don't know if it was a collective experience, and I don't know if you felt this or anyone you know. But last week I had a major grieving day. I woke up one day and I was depressed, and I hadn't been that low in a while. It came out of nowhere. I don't know what it was. I was in bed all day. I was sad. I was frustrated. I was grieving. Like I said, I just think really just giving myself the moment, but also just not seeing the other side of it at all. But I'm okay now. I almost feel like a relief right now that I felt that. It felt important and necessary. I mean, I also just think it's really weird to go this long without working. Even though, obviously, I'm busy with my life and my children and everything, it's just there's a whole part of you that's not fulfilled and that that's just not exercised. It feels like it's like, wake up, Mom, and address my illness, go to sleep, wake up, Mom, address my illness, go to sleep, which is fine, but not ideal every day for months and months and months.

But I'm okay. I will say, though, I will say positively, I'm feeling pretty good this week. So I'm going to take that win today, even though I don't-Yeah, take that. And I'm going to take it for us because at the same time, I know where you're at, and I hate it for you, and I'm sorry, and I want to be respectful of where you at. But also, I think it's important for us to remember these, like you had the win vacation. You know what I mean?

Yeah, it was a win. And then came home and deep depression set in. And I'm going to be honest with you, I need to buy stock in cottonel because I haven't taken a shower in three weeks. Oh, honey. Because I can't stand in my shower. There's no fucking way I can stand in my shower. You have a bench? I have such a small bench and my ass is so huge these days. Is that I can't sit on it. It's like I slip right off of it. It's late. It's very Four Seasons Huala Lai slate. So I've been cottoneling my body. So there you go.

Commercial. It's doing the job.

Thanks, Cotton El. I don't know if it's doing the job so much. I smell so bad, and it's awful. Thank God, I'm always alone so that no one smells me except for Sades. And she's always like, oh, mama, that is bad.

What's happening right there. The kids will always tell you.

Yeah. And I make her smell my armpits just to make her vomit. And then she makes me smell her breath. And then we laugh about that, how disgusting that smells.

Well, there's a lot of things. There's a lot of things in there, man. Keep it real.

So I was going to say something, and I think I might have mentioned this before. When asked, How are you? Most people don't want to hear the answer. And I think that I I had someone in my life that didn't want to hear it and called me, woe as me to someone else. And so today I was really nervous because I'm not doing good today. And is that a burden? Does that become a burden when you ask that question? Are you then taking away someone else's grace or happiness or something because you're being honest about how you're feeling?

And the whole point of our friendship is for you to never feel that way, not just because I can sympathize and empathize with what you are going through, but just as human to human. No. I think that I'm sorry that that happened to you and that made you ever even doubt the space that should be held for you and everyone always. But I think that people that aren't in a place to really engage. I mean, that's on them. That's their choice. That's on them. And their reaction should not be taken personal. I truly believe. You being able to share what you're going through and what you're feeling takes great strength and courage and humility. And anybody that can't receive that has whatever shit, I'm not a doctor, but whatever stuff going on, that's their problem. I really hope that you can get to a place where you don't... And look, you're going to run into somebody else that does that, and so am I. We all are. We all are. But it's about as you get older, it's about finding your tribe, your people, that you don't have to question that ever.

But I think that's the thing. It's like most people don't want to hear because, well, look, everyone's going through their own shit, and I get that. And this person that said that about me was going through stuff, and she didn't want to hear about my stuff. I never want to be in a friendship where it's not reciprocated, where we can't be right there for each other. When my friends are, I have two. Well, I mean, you, obviously, but you're here at home. I want to know how you are, and I want to know how shitty it is, and I will be an ear and a shoulder to lean on regardless of what I'm going through. And I think a lot of times people that see us who are disabled and stuff like, Oh, my problems are not as big. But they are. They're just What you're feeling is just as important and just as important.

You can't judge trauma. You can't compare issues or problems. You can't. It's all relative. It's all real, it's all valid. I think that that's one thing that this whole experience has definitely taught me. Again, I'm really sorry that that happened with somebody that you're close with because I can understand why that would really- Well, I think it was in realizing that I probably wasn't close to that person.

For someone to call me, woe is me, when I was just starting to have my symptoms. I didn't know it was MS yet, but I was going through it. I can't walk. From a dancer to a runner, to all the things I was, to all of a sudden not have those things. It was just a weird thing. And then it put me... My brain, my little kid brain, goes, Well, then I'm just not going to complain anymore, where I'm not going to discuss my shit because I don't want to put my shit on somebody else. So then what? And I've done that my whole life. I've always succumbed to someone else's need for attention, and they need it more than I do.

They need the room more than I do. Why? Because you got it elsewhere or because of- Or yes, because I was an actress or I was this, and they needed the floor more than I did.

So I shut my mouth and I wouldn't talk, and I wouldn't complain. I think that that's something that a lot of, not to be this sexist, but a lot of women go through where we're like, Okay, you be the bigger voice. Be the bigger voice than me. I'll just shut my face.

See, I'm like you in that 99% of the time. I don't tell anybody what I'm feeling or what I'm struggling with. And that has not served me and hurt me for sure. And I've admired you for your candidness and your ability to go there and be like, No, this is fucking bad. This sucks. That is something that I have truly learned from you because I think it's essential. I think it's essential for survival, for living and being human, and to bring up your people around you. I mean, you've touched on it, and I talk about it a lot, too, with my husband. When you deal with something chronic, whether it's a disease, whether it's addiction, whatever issue might plague you a lot in your life, those in your close circle and in your immediate family, it's also their issue as well. And it's really hard to not feel guilty about it. It's really hard to not feel bad about it. I had to have a talk with my son, who's not even 10 years old yet, last week because it was one of those days where it's super hot here, and I pushed through, and we were going from activity to activity to activity with them, and I don't say anything, and my bladder was acting up, and my legs weren't cooperating, and I'm going from this sport to this sport, and my five-year-old acting out, and he has IBS, and I'm this, and I'm gripping.

I'm literally white-knuckling my life. And when we got home, the boys got in a fight, and I just snapped. I screamed at them, I yelled at them. In I was the type of parent that I don't want to be, that I don't like to be, that I had growing up, that I promised I would never be. I took a minute and I came into my room and I had a good cry, and I I felt bad for my family, but I was like, they need to understand what I'm going through right now. I sat my son down and I said, this is a very unfortunate reality that comes with your mom I have a lot of great things I think about me, but one of the things that comes with me is this disease. I don't want to tell you that it's hard for me, and I don't want to tell you that I have to push through things because that shouldn't be your problem. I want to be there for you for everything. The truth of the matter is, I really struggle in my body a lot. And today was really hard for me.

And I'm sorry that I yelled at you, but I said to him, I was like, in those moments, Bo, I'm going to need you to do something that maybe kids normally don't have to do. If you see mommy and you see me starting to break down, I need you to back off. I need you to just start behaving or take a minute because I can't. I want to be calm and I want to be patient, but I can't do it. I can't. And he looked at me and he was like, please. It was so sweet. He was like, Mom, don't ever feel bad about anything you're going through, and I'm sorry, and I'll help you. And we had such a beautiful moment as a mom and a son. I'm always looking and holding on to any gift that can come from this experience.

I just was like, You know what?

If anything, this little boy is going to be so empathetic and conscious of what other people go through because of what he sees his mom deal with every day. And I was so proud of him. And I still deal with my guilt and everything. But to just have that open communication is really important so that I don't constantly harbor the feelings of guilt and that I'm a burden. And it's just the reality. It is. I take extra care. I take extra time. Things just aren't going to flow as normally as they can with other people because of me. But I would be nowhere without the people that show me the grace through it. And I'm so grateful for it.

Well, Thank you for shit. Sades has gone through this now. And one day I just said, I was sitting in here crying, and she just came and just hugged me and kissed me on the forehead. And she said, said, Mama, you don't have to do everything for me. When you're feeling sick, let me do stuff. And she's really come into that right now. And that's, like you were saying, it's such a burden to be our kids, these people that we're supposed to be the ones holding them up every day. And now at a young age, they're having to hold us up. And that's such a guilt feeling that I hate. But like you said, we're going They're going to be empathetic.

But she's going to be an amazing friend. Yes.

She already is. And she already is to her friends. I already see her with her friends, and she's supportive and loving.

It's also bringing out... It's also showing... I think I'd like to think that my son also, and I think Sadie too, in those moments, they feel good about themselves. They feel good that they're... You know how good it feels to show up for somebody and to know that your support is meaning something to them. For them to learn that human exchange at a really early age is a gift. I do. It still sucks. It sucks for them, but that kid had my arm.

When I wasn't using my cane and I was walking around, she would always make sure that I was okay and it had my arm until she walked really far in front of me.

Then I I saw something.

And then I was the caboose again. But no. Yeah, she always tries. Okay, so I have to say something.

Say it.

I don't think I've mentioned this, but I sleep with a heating pad, which heat for us is really no bueno, but I keep my house so cold that I want to snuggle with someone. So I have a heating pad, and I named him Jake Ryan. I named all my heating pads are named Jake Ryan.

For obvious reasons.

Yeah, because it's Jake Ryan. Jake Ryan burned me the other day, and I have a third-degree burn on my arm with a blister the size of two grapes. Jake Ryan. Jake Ryan really let me down. We just had to pop it, and then I've got some antibiotic appointment on it or something. But I I can't believe Jake Ryan did this to me.

I cannot believe. Your relationship had lasted a long time, too.

Yeah, it's been a couple of years of Jake Ryan.

Is that Jake Ryan? Maybe we need to trade him in for a new Jake Ryan. Is this Jake Ryan. I have two new jacreans.

I have two new jacreans. And I fell asleep with it, and it didn't turn off. It's supposed to turn off after two hours, and then it didn't. So I woke up with a blister. I mean, third-degree burns on my arm.

Anyway. I'm so sorry.

Woe is me. Damn it.

Quit being, Woe is me, girl.

Woe is me with my blister.

Can I say you mentioned something to me, and I feel like we need to get to know each other better because I love this about you. But you mentioned to me that when you ask somebody what their top five movies are, you can tell a lot about them.

It's my party trick.

Okay. Do you want to experiment with me and then explain we do it, or do you want to talk about it? Because this is fascinating me. I love it.

It works better on like, Strangers.

Because I don't know them.

But then by listening to their top five favorite movies, I've made people cry, saying, you probably were abused. Just weird. I can get into the psyche of it, but I know you, but I don't know you that well. Yeah. Okay.

Should we try?

Okay. Give me your top five of all time. It's really hard to have five. It is. There's so many good ones.

Okay.

Don't make fun of me. I don't have high class taste. This probably says a lot about me right now.

No, don't think about it. It has to be right off the cuff.

Goonies. Okay.

A League of Their Own, Forest Gump, Old School, and Shawshank Redemption.

Okay. You did not have a lot of kid life when you were growing up.

And you wanted to be part of something and a part of a group, but you felt like you couldn't be a part of those groups.

And you felt stifled by that, but you were a good student. That's what I'm getting right now.

I have full body chills.

Okay.

I have full body shows. Wow. I wasn't a kid enough. You're right.

You weren't.

Wow. The movies that you watched were things that made you feel like part of something.

Yes. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

And camaraderie like Shoshank Redemption. That's camaraderie. That's a brotherhood of having a best friend And yeah, so you can see a through line.

You're amazed. This is the super talent. I cannot wait to just watch you ask people, What are your five favorite movies? Oh, boy. That's too personal. It's pretty obvious.

All that jazz, Sophie's Choice, Dog Day Afternoon, Spinal Tap, and Step Step Brothers.

Yes. Step Brothers was my six. Okay, there we go. Wait, what does this say about you?

I'm fucking nuts. In One Flea of the Cuckoo's Nest, which I I can basically watch on a loop.

Wow. I could watch that on a loop. I've only seen that ever one time. Girl. Yeah. I need to watch it as an adult. I watched it in a film studies class in high school, which means I didn't really watch You didn't.

No, it has to be on a loop. That's one of the best of the best. I mean, wow. Yeah. All that jazz. Yeah. Those are my favorites.

Wow. This is so cool. I love this.

This reminds me you're from New York. What do you miss about it?

It's interesting. I was watching Wheelhouse Wites of New York the other night. My husband was in here with me, and I miss. I said, I don't know if I could live in New York City again, only because I couldn't walk around the way I used to. I lived in New York City from the day I turned 18 until I was 26, 27. I fucking love it. I loved it. New York to me originally, so I'm from Long Island, which is right outside New York, and I grew up a musical theater kid. I lived and breathed musical theater. I was in community theater on Long Island. Every play where there was a kid roll, I was either in it or auditioning for it or wanting to be in it. I was in a million productions of Annie, Every Why, My Poor Brothers came to watch me and all this shit. So New York City for a long time represented Broadway. Any time we went into New York City, it was only to see a play or a musical or for me to go on an audition. I would take the Long Island Rarewell with my mom and go to all the open calls that we were reading backstage.

And when the audition for Sopranos came along, I was 16, I thought it was musical.

Oh, wow. Because Sopranos.

Exactly.

Little did you know.

Little did I know. But I think what got me that part truly was my thick New York accent. When you watch that show and you see the first few seasons, I am not putting on an accent. That was me.

No, I remember.

That was me. All the walk talk. I don't know how I lost it, but it comes back every once in a while. But anyway, New York City, that's what I represented. And then when I started the show and I graduated high school, I went to NYU for a little bit, and then I got my own apartment, and I lived all over. I lived in Tribeca. I lived in Upper East, I lived in Midtown. I literally lived in Times Square. And then when I was 20, my dreams came true, and I got to play Belle in Beauty and the Beast on Broadway.

Oh, my God.

Which was...

I didn't know that, Jamie. Yeah. Oh, my God. Wow.

It was really cool because it It was in between shooting, I think it was the second and third season or third and fourth season of Sopranos. And I was doing Beauty and the Beast. Edi Falco was doing a play called Frankie and Johnny.

Okay. Yeah.

I know that. Stanley Tucci. And then Lorraine And Baraka was doing The Graduate. So the three of us were all on Broadway at the same time in our six month hiate. That's so cool. It was the coolest, especially because from being New York, I never knew who was in the audience. I never knew who was there to see me. It was during the holidays. And When you're it's Disney and all these little girls dressed up like Belle sitting in the front row, you're everybody's hero. But I got diagnosed with MS a month before I started Beauty and the Beast. I wasn't really symptomatic, but I had little things that I didn't know the disease well or what it would mean for me. If I had a bladder spasm while I was on stage, I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm going to go pee my pants on Broadway. Or my balance was off when the beast would twirl me and I'd be like, is this the beginning of the end? I just remember a lot of that. And this was at the point where when I was told by a doctor, never tell anyone, you don't tell anybody, you don't tell any.

It was secret, secret, secret, secret, secret. Just my parents knew and my fiance at the time. And I remember during one performance, there's a part where Belle is reading a book with her back to the audience with the beast. And I looked at the guy, Steve Blanchard, who played my beast. And I was like, I am so sorry to do this to you right now, but I have to tell I just got diagnosed with MS, and I'm really scared.

Oh, my God, mama.

On stage, literally. We're going to have to start singing together in a minute. And he looked at me and I remember he's like, I want to give you a hug right now, but I can't. But he's ahead. He goes, My Mom has MS.

Oh, my God.

And you're going to be okay. I remember being like, okay. And we never spoke about it again. He never asked me about it. I think he gave me room, obviously. If I ever wanted to talk about it, I didn't. But I'll never forget that. It literally happened on a Broadway stage. First person I ever really told out loud.

That's insane.

And so New York is a little heartbreaking for me because it's like, I don't know if I could ever do Broadway again. I don't know if I could ever... You know. I mean, Gosh, you know. What is New York for you?

Oh, my God. It's everything to me. I started going there as a little girl. My grandparents lived in New Jersey, and my mom had lived in Manhattan for years before she came to LA and married my father. So we spent every Christmas in New Jersey, but also went to New York. And we went to New York. I mean, I'm talking like six years old, seven years old, riding the subways, seeing every Broadway show that you could possibly imagine. I wanted to be a dancer. That's all I wanted was to be a dancer. I wanted to go to LaGuardia High School. I wanted to dance and sing on Broadway. That was my dream, my fucking dream. Like my whole life, I was a Fosse fanatic. From the time I was nine years old, I had seen Sweet Charity. I'd seen all that jazz. It was my dream was to live in New York, and my road took a different way. And then in 2005 or whatever it was, I was given the great opportunity to play Charity Hope, Valentine in Sweet Charity on Broadway, which I auditioned for, and I only went to audition for it because I wanted to have the experience of having a New York audition.

I wanted that experience of walking up those stairs to the studio that's dusty and weird. And the people are there on the table and they're all staring at you, and it's exactly what you imagined it to be. I auditioned for 10 hours.

They made you do everything.

Everything. Like, repeatedly, over and over and over again. And by the end of the day, they came and I was sweating. We had just done the dance segment, which is like two, three hours or something. And they're like, can you give us a year? And I said, well, first of all, can you give me a minute? I can't breathe. Can you give us $15 for a cab? Because we don't have any money to get back to the hotel. Not that we didn't have money. We just didn't. For some reason, my mom and I didn't have. We had no cash on. We had no cash on us. And back then there was no credit cards in the taxi for some reason. I don't know why. And that's how that happened. So I ended up going and doing that for a year. I lived on 11th Street between 6:00 and 7:00. I love that place so much.

Cool little Brownstone. Great area.

Great area. Great places to walk, the little cobblestone streets. And I would take the subway to work against all requests.

Of course.

They were like, I would sneak out of my Brown Stone and away from my driver to go take the subway at 14th Street.

You wanted to be a New Yorker.

Well, I always felt that way. When I was a kid, I love the smell of the subway. I love the smell of urine and gasoline and stuff.

That's why you're not showering. You just need to... You love the smell.

I just like the smell of myself. I mean, I loved it so much.

You just miss New York.

I do. We were there recently to go see my friends in dancing, Bob Fosseys' Danson, which was the most incredible thing I've ever seen on a stage in my life besides like, Dear Evan Hansen and stuff like that, where you're like watching miracles happen. Yes. But I watched my friends. They were all my friends in this show, and it was so incredible. And the night before we went to see the show, another girl who was also in Sweet Charity with me, because I still am very close to all of the ensemble and cast of Sweet Charity. We walked around New York for hours, dude, like this. We walked around New York for hours. We took the subway. We walked to my old house. They let us in to my old house. I knocked on the door. We went on San Ambrose and had dinner. I did all the things, and then the next day, I couldn't get out of the bed.

But you did it, remember?

But you did it. I know. We did it. But I have to keep reminding myself as a newbie to this that the shit days are going to come after the good ones, and you can't be discouraged, I guess.

I think, though, listening you talk and hearing all this, though, I think that you having a lot of these good days or pockets of good time are all when you leave your home and all when you get out of this element. I think that your body is still telling you what you are capable of. I think you just need to support yourself when you're home.

Yeah. I think that's... Yeah. Because I give up really easily. And then I'm like, lights off, television on, under the covers, don't come near me.

Don't talk to me. And by the way, you can do that for I get home and for a day or two be like, whoa, because that was a lot.

I just did three weeks. For three weeks, I've been laying in my bed, James. I don't like it, but I don't know what else to do because when I start to get out of the bed, I'm like, if no one's with me, I'm going to fall. And how am I going to get downstairs? How am I going to do anything? I have stairs. I have to leave my bedroom and go downstairs in order to help Sadie with something or whatever the case may be.

I don't know. Well, one One of my mantras when I'm in moments like that or I'm getting scared. And for me, the only thing that really shows up and I'm like, is bladder issues for me. That's one of the ones that comes in and out where I'm like, it gets frustrating and it's hard and it's hard to manage. But I say whenever I find myself getting anxious or in those places, I'll just put my hand in my heart and I'll be like, this is just where I'm at today. This is just where I'm at today. I'm going to deal with today And you never know what tomorrow is. Tomorrow could be bad.

What's the I thing? What's the fucking I thing? I don't know what's going on with my eye. I've never dealt with that.

You know what's going on with my eye? I've never dealt with that. I do. You know what's going on with my eye? I've never dealt with that. I do.

Ms can affect the eyes. And so now I'm really scared.

Well, look, this is also another problem with MS and chronic illness is you don't know what is just an individual thing that might be happening or is this MS? It's always that question. Like, is it a cold or is it MS? Do I have a UTI or is it MS?

Sometimes I feel like I have the flu or is it MS? Sometimes I feel like I have the flu. I'm like, my bones are aching. And I'm like, do I have COVID or do I have MS? And knock on wood, I've never had COVID. So we're knocking. There's an uptick right now. But I don't know. Then I'm like, am I dying? I can't see. I can't walk. I can't breathe. I have trouble breathing because there's a respiratory issue to it, too. And then I just get discouraged. And then I just give up. That's how I feel sometimes. And I hope people that are listening, You're not. I mean, I hope I'm not alone in feeling that way because it feels pretty lonely. It feels pretty damn lonely.

But as your friend and somebody who forces myself to look at the positive a lot of the time, there's times where you rebound. That's not lost. That's not gone. I'm not taking away from the reality of what you're dealing with and the difficulty of everything that you're dealing with. That's very real and that's very hard. But I think that we need to figure out a balance for you to recognize it and rest and be pissed and angry and depressed and all of that. But then also to somebody with you that gets you up out of bed and just be like, I'll hold you as we walk right now, and we're going to either go get an IV or we're going to go see a doctor.

I don't quite have that.

I wish I lived closer to you.

Not to shit on my friends, but I don't really have that. I have a very, very minute group of people that are around. And they're friends, but they also are caretakers. But I have one friend who's like, let's go swim. But I'm like, it's too hot outside. I can't go outside.

Even if you're in the water?

It's so hot outside. It's too hot. My brain starts to hurt and stuff. I have a very small... I have three people around me. That's it.

Can I ask you a personal question?

Sure.

Is that because it's hard for you to trust people? Is that because- No, I just don't like people. That's an answer. That's an honest answer. I appreciate you. I can't hate people.

They're annoying. Most people are just annoying. So these are the least annoying ones.

And it's also very hard to ask for help. I think, especially as a grown woman that's had so much success all because of herself. You know what I mean? Everything that she has and owns and is is because of you. It's hard to ask for help.

Yeah, I I don't like asking for help because I'm always like, no, no, no. Because they'll be like, let me help you to the bathroom. I'm like, no, I have to walk. It's important for me to try to walk because I've been laying here for six hours.

Are you just stiff?

It's stiff and weak and pain, in my bones pain from my knees down.

When you hit the ground pain or all- Yeah, I almost fall over.

And the bottom of my feet are completely numb, so I can't feel the ground. That was my first symptom. Was the numbness in my feet.

Right. Mine, too.

So I fell into the wall trying to get to the bathroom this morning and just things like that. And I was alone because everyone's asleep.

You know what's so weird, though? I fall on the wall all the time, but I think now I'm just used to it. You're used to it.

I'm not used to falling into walls.

I mean, when- I lose my balance. There's handmarks. I have white walls in my house, and there's just little finky prints, not from my children, But for me, they're my touchstones that I use to get through my house. It's funny. I'll leave a physical therapy session, and I'll stop myself and be like, oh, shit. I didn't even realize how much I I just depend on surfaces because when I get out into the real world is where I'm- You're freaking out, right?

I was going to say in the '90s, I fell into a lot of walls, but that was for a completely different reason. Good for you. No. But now, when we're out in the fields of life and there's nowhere to grab onto, I get so fucking scared.

I understand.

Like, panic.

Well, that's when you bring out your awesome walking stick that you designed.

F-u-m-s.

Fuck U-M-S.

My son put the F-U-M-S keychain on his backpack.

I love that so much. That makes me so happy.

That's pretty cool. I was like, Oh, I hope a public school teachers in Texas are cool with that.

I'm going to give you a little a side note.

Probably not. I figured. Oh, well.

Well, you could put the believe one on there, too.

My five-year-old has the believe one. Okay. My 10-year-old has the F-U-M-S, but it's fine. He's supporting his mama.

It's all good.

It's all good. You know, my little one said to me yesterday, we were leaving my bedroom, and it was one of those moments where I getting up, and especially when you're getting up from laying down or when you were being like, what's the word? Sedentary? What's the word?

Wait, hold on.

Sedentary. Thank you.

We got this. Thank you.

For a while, I get extra stiff when I'm sedentary. So I was like, walking behind him and I was like, and he was like, you look like an old lady. And it's like our joke. I'm like, I know. And he looked, turned around to me and he's like, every mommy except you can run. And I said, I know, buddy. I'm really sorry. And he goes, I don't like it. And they said, you don't have to like it. I don't like it either. I really understand. Those moments are getting hard order for me.

Now you just fucking turn me on my head. Because I know that they look at us. My twelve-year-old, she just makes fun of me, basically. But I know how much this is affecting her. She comes in and hugs me every day when I'm in bed. But she's always like, I know, Mom, because you're a DeSabe baby. That's what she calls me, DeSabe baby.

That's what we almost call this podcast, by the way. I know.

Would have probably offended a lot of people. So I'm glad we didn't do that.

Then we should.

That's used in my home. But, oh, honey, that's heartbreaking. Yeah, I know.

I know. And I have two very different ways that my kids react to this. But I got to say, sometimes that's more times than not, it's like 90% of the reason why I still get up and go to physical therapy or still get up and go to that Pilates workout or still get up and stretch or go on the cold plunder, stand on the power plate or whatever the fuck it is. Because maybe I'm stupid, but I still dream about being on on the runway again one day. I still like, maybe it'll never happen. There's probably a good chance it won't, but that's what keeps me going most of the time.

It's weird. It's a part of me, too, and sense of I laid the cable. Well, that's no. That means pooping, right? What is laying cable?

Not necessarily. Laying cable, yeah, I think that's pooping or boning.

What I laid the cable out of my mouth of saying that I was retired because I couldn't imagine at that time. Of course. Going to a set again at this moment. But fuck, I miss it. I miss it.

It's going to look different. It's not going to look or feel the way it always has for decades of your life.

I did a whole season completely in the worst of it.

I know.

I was falling over every day. Some days I couldn't speak because I was having tremors and my hands were shaking and all the things that I hadn't gotten treatment yet. So nothing had been done. I was a raw nerve of multiple scleros. Yes.

I know. And you still got an Emmy nomination.

This is true because people feel bad for the disabled.

No, that is not why you got it. You got it before. Shut up. That is not why. If anything, we know Hollywood's not, doesn't feel that.

They really don't care about the disabled.

They don't care about the disabled people. But it's not going to be how that was either, because you didn't know, you didn't have your disease in control all. You didn't have the support you needed at all. And you also, yes, you had your boundaries like we talked about, and you had certain things, but you're going to be able to be way more specific about what you need and don't need. When you're ready.

But is anyone going to... I go think about, is anyone going to hire me because I gained all this weight and I don't look the same and I don't look the same and I'm going to be a problem. And then I'm going to only be able to work for eight hours or I'm going to have to show up later. All those things as conditions that I'm so scared to ask people for.

You are Christina motherfucking Applegate. And you put that out there. You put out there for a moment that you're done. We can turn that. You can say, I actually think I'm ready, and I would love to just see the outpouring or the influx of requests for people to read your script, your stories, wanting to develop something with you. What if you developed your own story or your own show?

I want to do that. Those are things that we want to get to. It's going to happen.

I can't wait. Just let me guest star once. Oh, my God.

So I can make the insurance. You're going to be my co-star for everything for the rest of my life.

Please. My dream.

Here's our first question from a listener. She says, this is Brittany. I've been diagnosed for 14 years and symptomatic for 20. I am a mom to a toddler, and the mom guilt of having to say no or slow down is really mentally bringing me down. Any tips for being less hard on myself?

I think that we float that right to you, Jamie.

Yeah.

We float that one right to you.

I got it.

Hand it off. You got this one, lady.

Oh, girl. I've only known IMS, being a mom of toddlers and small children, and it's so hard, let me first say. It's so hard to say no. It's so hard to hand your children off to do other things with other people because you just can't either do it or muster the energy for it.

I wish I had some beautiful secret to get rid of the mom guilt.

Mom guilt, I think, just exists because we love so much no matter what. But I can tell you that you're not alone. I can tell you as having a child that's a little bit older, who's 10 years old, he Sees my struggle and he understands it, but he has never, ever made me feel like I'm any less of a mom because I can't do things that other moms can. In fact, he's even actually said that out loud to me. We talked about this before that sometimes we can obsess and think so much about the things that are being taken away from our children's lives because of this, and that's very real, and We're not wrong. But I also do think that it gives them just a life lesson and some compassion and empathy that maybe they wouldn't have been exposed to this early with. I'm sorry, Brittany, and I get it and find ways to sit down. My son was obsessed with hockey, so I used to just play knee hockey with him. We did a lot of Legos, we did a lot of coloring. We just got creative. Anything you want to add, Christina?

My daughter has only known me like this for these three years. Before January of 2021, I was a very not a mess person. I was hiking every day. I could dance around the house. I could do anything with her. I I could drive her anywhere. I could do all these things. And mine came on subtly, but then got really bad really quickly because stress can bring it on, can bring on the symptoms. And I was going through an incredibly stressful time. So she's known me as both. And luckily, she's not very active. She loves to lay in bed with Mama. She loves to lay in bed, even at 13. We watch Only Murders in the Building or shows that she wants to watch, and we just cuddle in here, and there is that sense of she understands that I can't do much, but she does love when I do do stuff for her because she has a semblance of her old mom, but she also knows that I can't. I can't always. She gets it, but I know that it hurts her. I know it breaks her heart every single day. I don't really have tips because I'm learning as I go.

That's all we can do. Okay, I have another one that I'm going to read. Gosh, I need trifocals, too. Christina, here we go.

I try. It's just not working. It's everybody else is working. But the reading part, which is why I really need them, is not working anymore. So I need a full makeup.

We need some new glasses.

We need some new glasses. Plus, they're always dirty.

Okay, this is from Alicia.

Hi, Alicia.

Since my diagnosis, I have found other MSers on social who have become incredible supporters and real-life friends. Can you share how having friends with MS has helped you through the good, the bad, and the ugly? I'm going to hand this one to you.

Are you going to toss it over? Are you going to ping-pong me? Yeah. So first of all, I have to say Jamie has been invaluable in my life since we were connected again through our friend Lance. And without her, I don't even know what I would do. But I remember when I came out publicly and I made a public statement Because, and I'm going to say why I made the public statement, I wasn't ready to make a public statement at all. But somehow a picture of me in a wheelchair was posted somewhere, and I just didn't want speculations. And I thought, you know what? I'm just going to say it. And I said it on the platform and said, Hey, this is what's going on, and please leave me to be through this, and I'm going to figure it out. And I don't usually read comments of things that I've posted, but I think because it was this, it's like I did want to have a community. I wanted to see who understood because I hadn't talked to you yet, Jamie. This was before you and I had talked. I had really nobody to talk to about this.

There was this one woman named Cindy, and she and I started a dialog together online on Twitter or X or whatever it's called now. Not putting it down because got to have it. But she and I have remained friends for three years, and we talk almost every day. She checks in with me every single day. We FaceTime. A few nights ago, we're both up at the same time at midnight, which is my witching hour. After I've been asleep for four hours, We talked for two hours on the phone, and she sends me things, and she's just there for me, and we've never met. And then I love her with all my heart.

I love that.

And you were my first friend, really, that I had a very close relationship with that had MS. I've met other people with it, and it's nice to have a moment of acknowledgement and recognition. I see you. I know what you go through, but you were the first person that I ever felt that crazy support from. I do think that it's really important and If you can find somebody that just has some idea what you could be going through, it's incredibly helpful.

I think it's invaluable. There are a lot of different apps and chat rooms that I look through. I don't engage too much, but I look through and I feel seen and I feel heard because I didn't know anything about this disease, man. Nothing. To feel like, Okay, we've got these people that know what we're feeling. Then there's ones that I've gotten on the phone with. I think I told you that this woman who works at Peloton, her mom has MS, and she was like, Get up.

Get up out of your bed.

Get on your bike.

You go move. And she's incredible. She's probably 70 something, and she's just a badass bitch.

I'm like, I want to, but I'm still in my grieving phase, I guess.

But it's so important to have all different angles. And I was going to say this, too. And this friend of mine listened to our podcast today, and she sent me a voice note, and she was crying listening to it. And she said, and she has some autoimmune stuff, but it's not MS. And she goes, I'm never going to complain again after listening to that. And I went, oh, no, you complain, girl.

It's okay.

We've got your back. That's what we're here to do, is to talk about the good, the bad, the ugly, and the in-betweens, and hopefully it resonates and maybe it lifts someone up that day or allowing you to have those feelings.

And you know what's so weird?

Badness.

I got a call today from this woman who I want to put you in touch with.

Very high up level Executive in our industry.

She's a badass. She's been battling MS for 20 something years. And I saw I was having a call from her today, and I thought it was because she would listen to the podcast or whatever. She had no idea. And she was like, I She picked up the phone, she was like, Jamie, I haven't talked to her in nine months. She was like, Can I please just complain to you for a second? I'm like, Of course, because she's someone like me who's just tried to white-knuckle through and not say anything and not complain and try to not be a burden. And again, this is the space we're trying to create here, guys. It's just a safe space and a place where you can feel heard and understood. And while your voice may not be on this podcast, we hope you hear yourself through either one of us or both of us.

Yeah, we're representing you. We're representing both all the sides and about everything else, too. That's what I said to my friend. I said, This podcast is for you, man. So you may not have MS, But this is for you as a person, as a human, as a woman, as whatever the case may be. Or maybe we have just funny guests, and we get a little moment of repose from all of the madness in the world. But don't ever say to me, I'll complain again. It's okay. We don't do that.

But you know what? I also do think it's good for your friends that you may be pulled back from saying what you were going through, for them to understand what you've been going through and hear about the realness of what your life has been.

She also said, I feel like I've been a bad friend because I didn't know all the stuff that you were feeling. And it's like, not. You're not. It's just, how would you know? Unless you wrote a thing on it or read a thing, we don't sit there and read these things. We just what's going on. And sometimes I'm not honest about how I'm feeling because I don't want to get into the conversation. Sometimes I don't want to talk about it. I want to talk about poop, which I think is a clear line that we have established that I'd rather talk about poop most of the time.

Yeah. This is a podcast of many things, but it's also a poop pod.

Yeah. Poop podcast.

Thank you. Yeah. All right. So keep sending in your comments and questions, and we will continue to answer them as the show goes on.

What else do you want to talk about?

Or should we- I picked a good card today, by the way.

Oh, you did? Okay. Yeah.

Ready? I literally picked this randomly. I swear to God, I swear on my children.

It's sad. I always pick randomly. Okay, let me hear.

We have no right to ask when a sorrow comes, why did this happen to me? Unless we ask the same question for every joy that comes our way.

Fuck these Eckartole ones. I'm not even going to even know if I'm going to go there.

Isn't that a good one?

That is so beautiful. That is really what we needed today.

I really think we needed that one today.

All right, let's see what... Okay, pick a card, any card.

That light blew in in the middle.

Right there?

Yeah, that one's fine.

This one?

Yeah, that looks nice.

When the compulsive striving away from the now ceases, the joy of being flows into everything you do. The moment your attention turns to the now, you feel a presence, a stillness, and a peace.

It's very true. The power of now.

Power of now, guys. Literally I'm literally the name of the cart.

Littler.

I have a really good friend who says Littler. Like, literally says it like that. L'hitler.

.

Yeah. And she's talking to you. She's like, Littler. And I'm like, literally, stop doing what you're doing.

That is so good. Littler. Littler. I only will say it that way now.

You have to say it like that.

Well, I'm going to try to do this now. I'm going to try, not always, let's be realistic. That's not going to happen. But when something good happens every once in a while, I'll be like, why me?

Yeah. I want to know I want to remember that, too. Let's do that. I mean, I don't...

If I had bigger biceps, maybe I would do the whole thing on it. But you know.

You don't want to see what's happening in these arms right now. Oh, there's a cat. Is that a cat? There's a cat trying to get into the cameras right now. Hi, Ashi.

I love you. I appreciate you for your honesty and your heart. It's not easy to talk talk about this shit, whether it's to a friend, let alone on a podcast. But I really think that this is the stuff people need to hear. I know I do.

Yeah. And then we're going to have some ones that are going to be some fun ones. Oh, yeah. Maybe today needed to be talked about because I was not in the mood to, I don't know. Yeah.

All right. Well, I love you.

I love you, too.

And so it is, guys.

And so it is.

We want to hear from you and answer some of your questions and read your comments. You can send them in through the contact form on our website, messythepodcast.

Com, or DM us on Instagram at Messy Podcast. This show is executive-produced by Christine Tina Applegate, Jamie Lynn Siegler, and Allison Breznik. Our audio engineer is Josh Windish.

If you want to show us some love, don't forget to leave the show a rating or review. Jamie. Thanks for listening. I just want to let you know I am a paid spokesperson for Novartis, but this podcast is independent from my collaboration with Novartis.