True Detective Night country brings a new twist to the thrilling series.

These men disappeared 48 hours ago.

In this podcast, we hear from the show's creators and creatives.

I love the feeling of a darkness. There is things deeper than what you can see. Alaska felt like a natural place to explore these themes.

Uvanga, Kannik I'm Alice Kaniklen, and this is the true Detective night Country podcast live. Listen wherever you get your podcasts, watch the HBO original True Detective night Country exclusively on Max.

Acast recommends podcasts. We love Chris and Rosie Ramsey here. Listen to our british podcast award and comedy award winning podcast.

I also won the most handsome podcast co host award, didn't I?

Yeah, okay, about that. I might have made that one up.

What?

Yeah. In our podcast, we talk beefs, parenting, grown up, and so much more.

What about me? Most improved podcaster trophy?

Yeah, that one as well. Just search, married, annoyed, wherever. Get your podcast.

Don't you dare tell me that you made up my podcast participation certificate as well.

We need to have a chat. Acast is home to the world's best podcasts, including the Blind Boy podcast, ready to be real with Sheila Shoiga and the one you're listening to right now. This podcast explores themes of murder and rape. Listener discretion is advised. For years, Detective Maxine Farrell has been the only police officer in Anchorage, Alaska sure that a serial killer is at work. Troopers confirm a second body of a.

Dancer has been found on the Knickk river.

Now, a body of a young dancer has been found on the Knickk river, killed in exactly the same way as another dancer, Sherry Morrow, who was discovered just a year before. A police source says there are still many more girls missing. How did it feel to have confirmation that you're right, there is indeed a serial murder operating right now?

I didn't need the confirmation, you know, because I already knew it. I believed it with all my heart. That's why I was going at it so hard.

Are you thinking, okay, now things are going to be moving forward?

Yeah, I thought they would move forward. Everybody else had to pay attention now, and we had to get more things going on to get this guy.

Did you get anybody saying, damn, Maxine, you were right.

Nobody. Not in my department anyway.

This is mind of a monster, the butcher Baker. And I'm Dr. Michelle Ward in this seven part series, we're in 1980s Alaska to unravel a serial murder case that spans over a decade. This is episode four. Your job is to protect and serve. It's September 1983, and it looks like Maxine has been right. All along, a serial killer is at large, but she's still relatively powerless because as a detective in the Ingridge police department, she has no jurisdiction over the bodies on the Knickk river. They are an Alaska state trooper territory. And after a year of no new leads on the Sherry Morrow case, a new guy is put in charge. His name is Sergeant Glenn Flothy.

In my meetings with him and face to face, he's kind of professorial. There's something more intellectual about him. You know, somebody who, you know, had on his chin really deep thinker, really thinking through stuff, really methodical.

Author Leland Hale met Glenn Slothy in the 1980s. And I've got this picture of Glenn here. He's thin and really tall. He's got this thick brown mustache and these wire rim aviator glasses. He's hard to describe. He has almost an earnest look to him. Leland. He doesn't look like I would imagine a police sergeant to look.

No, he did not. He was actually already known as a good homicide investigator. He'd originally been in Fairbanks, and he had four or five, six cases that he brought to fruition. And it was really his ability to put people at ease and get them to talk, and not always in a confrontational cop stuff.

Glenn's still alive, but he doesn't do media interviews. He's put all of this behind him, and that's where he'd like it to stay. And I get that he threw all of himself into this case. And as we go farther into the story, I think you'll start to understand. But we have managed to get access to some transcripts of interviews with Glenn from 1984 that have never been made public before now. So when you hear Glenn's voice as the story goes on, it's an actor reading from those transcripts. In September 1983, Glenn joins Sergeant Lyle Hougspin on the case.

I see myself as a catalyst. I think that's where my ability lies. And another thing I want to point out that I feel strongly about. Lyle gave the best he could. He himself, as a human being, was as emotionally involved and charged in the case as I was, perhaps in a different way.

Glenn starts by looking at the case notes from the latest body, who's been identified as 31 year old dancer Paula Goulding. I've got some of those case notes in front of me now. And there's one key observation here. The report reads, quote, scene observations. The gravesite is located on a slew flowing south on the west side of the connect river. The area is remote and can be reached by airplane and shallow draft boats. End quote. Both Sherry Morrow and Paula Goulding were shot in the chest, and 223 casings are discovered in their graves. But there is one big difference between the two. Sherry's body is next to farmland and accessible by vehicle. To get to Paula Goulding's gravesite, you have to fly or boat into it. Author Leland Hale.

So now this sort of changes the tenor of what they're looking know. They're looking for someone, probably who's a hunter, right? Who knows this area from hunting here. Now, that's not a small population in Alaska, but it's not the know. It's not all of Anchorage.

Glenn also inherits the file from Anchorage Police Department cop Greg Baker with details of the Cindy Paulson case. The 17 year old sex worker who claimed to have been held captive and raped in a house, then driven to Merrill airfield to be taken out to the wilderness on a plane. Greg's prime suspect is Robert C. Hansen, the owner of said plane.

Baker's report made it apparent that Hansen was more than a baker who had a problem with a prostitute. Made the hair stand up on the back of my neck.

Putting these two pieces together is what Glenn remembers as the moment that would set him on a quest for justice.

Until then, the plane had not become king. That was the blinding light.

Glenn is convinced Hansen is his man, but he knows that what he has so far is no more than a strong hunch. Leland, you can't put someone away for owning a plane, right?

So it's not enough to bring murder charges because at the early point, all they have is shell casings. And they have this history of bad incidents with women. He needs a search warrant to go into Hansen's house and find the weapon because they need to tie these shell casings to a person who owns the weapon.

But that's no easy task either. You got to convince a district attorney and a judge that you need the warrant.

And, of course, that's the case here.

From then on, we dug up everything we could on Bob Hansen.

Glenn Flothy, he had to go digging deep to pull out all those case materials because some of the records about Hanson were not available. They were not available because the Alaska state troopers was in the midst of converting everything to a computer record. And so they literally taken the paper files and they were scanning them and digitizing them. And so they weren't all available. But because this guy Hansen had been around Alaska and been in the police viewfinder since at least 1971, there were these memories. And Flothy considers himself, kind of like the Chronicle Lecler. So when they start to tell him, oh, I remember that guy. Oh, I remember that guy, Floaty starts.

To build a detailed picture of Hansen's past record. He receives the arson reports from Iowa. He talks to Ron Rice about the Susan Hepbard and Patty Roberts cases in 1971 and discovers the shoplifting of a chainsaw in 1975. He also digs up another case, that of black dancer Christy Hayes, who was abducted in 1979 but managed to escape Sergeant Floth.

And there was another guy. They came to my house, knocked on my door. They didn't call me. They knocked on my door and asked me, will I come and look at some pictures? I said, yes.

Christy has never spoken to any media before. We've brought her into a conference room in downtown Anchorage, where she still lives. Christy's set up with a can of soda under bright overhead lights, looking more than a little nervous. She appears a lot younger than her 63 years with this beautiful smooth skin and a huge smile. I want to start with, are you originally from Anchorage?

I'm originally from Clement Falls, Oregon. I came up here through talents west on a dancing gig.

Oh, you came up through talents west? I didn't know that.

Yes.

So this really is news to me. You'll remember that talents west is the organization that was bringing young women to Anchorage on contracts that required them to pay back their airfare and to pay them rent. When talents west contacted you, what did they tell you about coming up there?

They said that I want to have shelter income, and I signed this waiver, so if I backed out, there'd be problems. And that's how I got tricked up here.

You felt you were tricked?

Yes. I worked at the Embers nightclub.

How old were you when you began dancing there?

I was 19.

Did you feel safe working at Embers?

No. Pretty much. There was a lot of pimps in control of the girls, something that I just never got into. I don't like the way they beat their women into submission. So we, me and the pimps never got along. They threaten me all the time.

So imagine a young girl in this whirlwind of chaos. Add to that that Christie is black, one of just a handful of black people living in Anchorage at the time. It could not have been easy. Then on October 14, 1979, this one guy walks into the Amber's club.

He came into the club, and my boss just kept walking right by him. Since there's a customer over there, he said it's about time to get a little, get more friendly, go off of a drink at a table dance. And I did. It was hard to look at him face to face because he had so many pocket marks on his face. His Face was infested with acne, really bad acne. And those glasses that he had on was so thick and big.

So you give him a table dance. And what happens after that?

Be patient with me, because my mind is scattered. I had amnesia for a while. You know how that stuff, when you get amnesia, it starts to come back and you get little pieces of this and little pieces of that? It comes to me in dream form.

Christy has PTSD, and she gets flashbacks all the time. This incident still haunts her.

I was coming out of the club that one night, and he was waiting outside. And before we had talked inside, he said he had some jewelry if I was interested in buying. And that was a sucker for that. So I said, yeah. And he was just in the back of my camper. I follow him to the camper. He opened the door. He pulled out a 44 magnum, nickel plated magnum, on me. He says, back up, don't scream, and take off all your clothes. I'm like, what? Because, I mean, take off all your clothes or off, it won't be nice. And I did. I was just petrified. I was just petrified. And I proceeded to take off my clothes.

So at this moment, you're thinking, what?

I was just so scared. I didn't feel anything. I was just so scared. Submit. That's what was going through my mind. And he put the snare wires on my wrist, then lifted me up and put me in this bed and tied my feet to my hands backwards. And so he proceeded to hog tie me. And I still have some of the marks on my wrist from where he had the hog tied.

Hog tide. You've seen that before. It means that Christy had her hands tied to her feet behind her back. It's how you tie up an animal. By all four legs. Now, at this point, you're tied up, you're naked, he doesn't rape you. And what do you think that was about?

Yes, this is it. This is it, because you're going to rape me. You should have raped me already. But you tied me up with snare wash. That means you're going to kill me. This is what's going through my mind.

So now he starts driving. What are you feeling?

Panic. The more I move, the tighter the wires got. And I finally said the lord's prayer, and I seemed like a flash, and the wire snapped.

Wow.

I was scrambling to get the wires off me. And when he turned and looked in the window and see me escaping, he put the brakes on, and I went flying to the other side of the camera and hit my face, face first. That's where that dip in my bone comes from. This car has pretty much gone away, but you could feel the bones. I went flying and went unconscious for a while. When I woke up, he had stopped.

Remember here that we're in a camper? Hanson has just gotten out of the driver's seat, and he's walking around to the back, where Christy is completely naked. There's a small window between her and the driver's cab up front.

So I've got the wires off of my wrists and my feet. And I opened up that window that separates the camper from the cab and crawled right through there, slammed it back shut and locked it and locked both sides, the passenger side and the driver's side.

Oh, you are smart. Because now he can't slide open that window, and he can't get in the doors.

And so then I was looking for the key, so I put my hand up where the ignition is, and they were gone. He came back around to the passenger side and said, open the door. Open the door. I was like, no. I was screaming and screaming and screaming. I was screaming, you try to kill me. And he put his fist through the window and broke it on the driver's side.

Wow. So he busts through the glass, and now you're screwed again. Now you need to make a choice.

I ran out of the passenger side. I escaped running butt naked through rocks and sticks and trees and barbed wire. And I came up on this fence, this chain link fence, and I went over that fence. Don't ask me how I left this bob wire.

You were probably running so fast.

I flew. Maybe I grew wings.

You grew wings?

I grew wings. I had to get over that. And I landed up in the back of this lady's yard or the front yard. And I beat it on the door. Help. Please help me. Call the police. And they snatched the door open, and I'm standing there butt ass naked. And it was a meeting with Jehovah Witnesses.

That was the shock of their life, too. The house Christie's talking about, it's just about as suburban as you could possibly imagine. It has a double garage in two levels with a slate roof. And the woman who opens the door, the Jehovah's Witness, Mildred Johnson, she opens it to a naked, bleeding 19 year old.

They gave me a robe. I kept telling them to turn the lights out. Because he's out there and he has a gun. And they kept saying, jehovah's going to protect us. Jehovah's going to protect us. Nobody's going to hurt you.

The Jehovah witnesses call the police and they arrive at the house. I have the police report right here. And it says the officer contacted the black female who identified herself as Christine Hayes. The police report also states earlier that evening, Christy had met a caucasian man in the bar and agreed to have a date with him when she got off work. The man paid her $110 in advance.

The police said I was promiscuous. He said, you're being promiscuous. All the girls out here are promiscuous. That's what they said. So that shut me down. I remember yelling at him. I said, your job is to protect and serve. Get on your job. I just wanted them to take me back to the club. Just take me back to club. I wouldn't even go to the hospital. I went the next day and I had cracked ribs and everything else. Just draw up.

According to the police report, the officers find the broken glass and tire marks on the road, vital evidence of Christie's attack. But that is as far as the investigation goes until six months later, on March 23, 1980, Christie is dancing, this time at the bush company. And the guy who attacked her walks in. Did you guys call the police?

I think we did. And I got in trouble for that for beginning the police. I got in trouble for that for the house mother. She says. That's what we have bounces for.

The police report for this night says Hayes told the officer that the man who had assaulted her several months before was there. She pointed out a caucasian male in the bar that the officer identified as Robert C. Hansen. Hansen agrees to come down to the APD and this same officer interviews him. Now what happens next on the police report? You've heard it before several times. It's almost painful to hear it again. Hansen says Hayes then stripped off her clothes and she performed oral sex on him. Hansen said that Hayes then demanded $75 from him, which he refused to pay since no one had mentioned money before. He said that Hayes then got upset and started screaming, causing him to panic and throw her out the back door of his camper. Yep. He tells the same story about a money dispute. And the officer at the APD, what does he do? He doesn't press charges. He doesn't continue on the investigation. Hansen walks free. This incident had a profound impact on Christie's life. And what follows is a very confused time.

I want to turn to alcohol really bad and drugs. I lost my kids during fighting with ocs. They didn't think I was competent, so I turned over custody to my mother. So she raised them mostly.

I bet a lot of that has to do with what you went through. None of us are going to get through that without major repercussions. You've been the victim of a horrible crime and nobody supported you. Add to that between 1980 and 83, Christie is convinced Hansen is following her.

And he mistake the place, the places that I lived at, because the neighbor said, there's a camper outside, and he keeps pulling up in front of your door, getting out, pretending that he's some kind of locksmith or something. When I got home, the door had been kicked off the hinges. Our drugs were there, our little speed tablets were there. Our money was there, our narcotics was there. Nothing was missing.

There's a particular incident that Christy remembers when she saw Hanson outside her door. And he saw her.

This is on Flower street in Mountain View. And he was doing something, trying to pick the lock to get in. The dogs were right on the other side of the door, and I wanted to see why they were on guard. And I peeked out the window and knocked the ironing board over. And he turned around real quick. He seen me and I see him, and he fled. So I called the police, which never came.

We don't have any further police reports about these incidents, maybe because, as Christy says, they never showed up. But we do have another perspective on Christie's experience. Hello. Hi, Nisha.

Nice to meet you.

I'm calling Nisha, Christie's daughter, on video chat. She was born during this period in 1981 and is the eldest of Christie's five children. So when did you first find out about what had happened to your mom?

I was an adult. Tried not to bring it up too much and let her be the one to bring it up just because of how sensitive the subject was. She's had a very rough young adult. All the way up until now, she's had it rough, and she's been through a lot. She's been through what people couldn't imagine. I think maybe the drugs was a coping mechanism to not think about it.

Nisha is as beautiful as her mom and has a calm, considered presence. As we chat, her sweet gray and white pit bull lies behind her in what I can only describe as blissful sleep.

I'm blessed that she did survive, because if she didn't, we wouldn't be here. And so I think that makes us stronger. Kind of like rainbow children, if you will. Kind of, in a way.

When did you go and live with your grandmother?

I think we went when I was about six. About six or seven. I don't remember a lot of stuff. When you go grow up in a fast, not so good childhood, kids kind of delete or put those memories in the back where you just don't remember.

Wow, I cannot imagine that must have been so hard on all of you. And I need to check one more thing with you. I know that your mom was attacked in 1979, but she says that Hansen continued to harass her in the 80s.

He did. My dad witnessed it. So he was, what's the word called? Stalking my mom.

Nisha's father passed away a couple of years ago. But before he did, he told her about Hansen following Christie.

He was able to break into their house and he went into her dresser. He pulled her underwear. And my dad told me that he had to watch out for her. I remember my mom and dad saying that they reported him and they reached out to the police several times and nothing happened.

Why do you think that is?

They didn't care because these women were, to them, bottom feeders. So they weren't worth enough. If it was a regular teenager, high class, then they probably would have made a little bit more moves. But not for those group of young adults.

In the experience she went through not being listened to again and again. This still haunts your mom now.

She's been drug free. She's come a long, long way, but she's very fragile mentally wise, just because she's been through a lot. So all we can do is love her and support her how we can. I'm proud of her.

Speaking to Nisha, it strikes me that Christie's story, the ending of it, lies with her kids. Despite their hard upbringing, all five of Christie's children, none of them followed their parents into the street life. They're all holding down jobs and raising kids. They're all doing really well.

Thank you. Thank you guys for listening to me and doing this interview for my mom. I think that this is part of closure for her as well.

Look at that baby. Nisha points the camera one last time at her sleeping pit bull. I just want to boop her nose. I love her. You guys have a good day.

You too.

Take care. Stay warm. Back in 1983, Glenn Flothy is the first person who truly listens to Christy's story and takes her seriously. She agrees to testify against Hansen in court if it becomes necessary, as does Patty Roberts. But it's still not.

Just. It still wasn't tight enough. That still doesn't make him the murderer. So we knew we needed a little more.

Author Leland Hale.

Certainly how the criminal justice system works in the United States and I suspect elsewhere, it's like, these are old cases. You can't just string a bunch of old cases. Know, when we investigate stuff, it's new, it's fresh, the evidence is hot.

So given that, it becomes really important to get Cindy Paulson on board, right, because her case is fresh, it's just a couple months old, right?

She's the link between this history, his past, and now. And so this is not just a one off. This is no accident.

True detective Night country brings a new twist to the thrilling series.

These men disappeared 48 hours ago.

In this podcast, we hear from the show's creators and creatives.

I love the feeling of a darkness. There's things deeper than what you can see. Alaska felt like a natural place to explore these themes.

Uvanga Khanik. I'm Alice Kanniklen, and this is the true detective night country podcast. Listen wherever you get your podcasts, watch the HBO original true detective night country exclusively on Max.

I read her statement and I was very intrigued to meet this person.

Early October 1983, Sergeant Glenn Flothy is convinced a local baker named Robert C. Hansen is behind the murders of two dancers found on the Knickk river. But to obtain a search warrant of Hansen's home, he needs the testimony of a young sex worker, Cindy Paulson, who claims Hansen kidnapped and raped her four months prior.

Sure, I wanted to meet this person to get a witness for the case, but from reading her statement, you could tell she was uneducated, but with a lot of street smarts. Been a prostitute since she was 13 or 14 years old. There was a sense of feeling in her, a sense of honesty, a sense of caring. And there was a human being that was dwindling away, human being that was rotting away, but there was a core that was very sensitive sense of ripe. Sure, the police went to her. She didn't come to the police afterwards. But finally she told the police what happened. What do they do? They kick her in the head.

As you can tell, Flothy doesn't mince words about how the police handled Cindy's case. In June of 1983. They closed it after just eleven days.

Before Hanson could say, well, yeah, I was with that prostitute. But the fucking shit. She wanted more money, and now what is she doing? She's putting some heat on me. That's bullshit. She got what she deserved. And the cops would buy that. Look how many times the police have screwed up. Look at how many times they bought.

The story to change the narrative. Floaty needs Cindy. But after her case was dropped by the Anchorage police department, Cindy melted back into street life. And there's no guarantee she'll testify. How was he able to track her down?

He's in this lone warrior. He's, he's not even in the office. He's taken on the hours of these women that work in the streets. He's found that if you're out there, when they're out there, they're more likely to talk to you. And of course you have more opportunities.

To build trust with some help from street cops. Flothy finds Cindy working in a massage parlor in Anchorage.

She's out on the street sleeping with pimps, hustling people, giving head jobs in the car for $15, being provided by her pimp at parties. Just incredible things these women do as a matter of course in life. It's unreal. And then on the other hand, she reminded me a lot of my daughter at that time. She was eleven going on twelve. She had that little girl in her. She was a little girl that never grew up.

So he's looking at all this and said, I have to befriend her, so I can't lecture her. I can't be a cop, but I'm going to try to be like a dad or a father figure. And so he would have what he called coffee clatches, where they would just meet for coffee and they would not talk about the case.

She talks about teddy bears and stuffed toys and wanting the things that she never had as a child. She came from a broken family, she was passed around. So she started running around with some kids on the street, got hooked up with a pimp. He took her in and she never had, didn't have nothing as a kid. So this pimp gave her everything. Drove around a big fancy know, gave her nice fancy clothes, gave her nice jewelry. And yet when you sit down and talk to her, what she wants is to go see Portage Glacier. She wants to go to Disneyland and see Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck and ride on the rides. She wants to go to fun world and slide down the water slides. That's exactly the stuff my daughter talks about. So I had to build some trust with her. That is, she knew I was willing to accept her faults and I was not going to try to punish her for it.

Only two weeks after Flothy is assigned to the case, Cindy agrees to come down to the state trooper office to give a recorded interview about her experience.

Is there anything else that this man.

Told you that you can remember that you can tell me? Any comments that he made off the.

Cuff type things, how he said there was seven other girls. It really trips me out what happened to them. Seven other girls.

This is the same recorded interview you heard earlier in this series. And the guy who's talking to her, that's the real Glenn Flothy. She's talking about the seven other girls that Hansen told her he had kidnapped before.

Do you think you know that?

Yeah, I think I know.

Yes, she says, I think I know. He killed them.

You thought you'd never see anybody again.

You might recall that in this interview, cindy remembers so many details. The road, the layout of the basement, the color of the house.

There was fish, there was wolf skins.

There were stuffed animals everywhere. Well, Glenn asks her about it afterward.

She was able to articulate very well, in fact, better than any witness I've ever had on any case. As to remembering what in the hell had happened, I asked her that later on because even average, intelligent people don't remember things like that. Of course, I guess when your life is on the line, you're going to remember a lot. But she told me her sister was a deaf mute. And so when she grew up, her sister had to learn a lot intuitively. So she learned to share things with her sister in a way her sister would like feeling or touching a glass or feeling and experiencing or something like that. And that's how she explained to me as to how she developed this memory skill thing.

It's that incredible memory that Flothy thinks will be vital to a successful trial.

I needed her support for these other victims that were never supported. I needed her to stop this killer from killing these innocent people. So I needed her badly, not for my own gratification, but for theirs. And I think she understood that.

At the same time, Glenn begins to secure witnesses like Cindy Paulson and Christy Hayes. He hears about the work detective Maxine Farrell has put together on her own steam at the Anchorage police department.

Glenn's always a wonderful cop. I knew him quite a while before. He's a very silent guy and the guy that you would see with glasses, studying things, and very serious person. When he decided to take the case, he came down and asked what I had because he knew I was investigating so much. Ploty asked for me to be on the task force, and he asked me first, actually. And then he went to one of my lieutenants and I'm ready to go. It's my case.

And what stopped you?

One of my lieutenants said no, she's too busy and I was at. Busy what? He shook his head. He didn't want me to have anything to do with the case anymore. I was pissed.

Why would your lieutenant stop you from working on this case when you had more information than anybody?

Because they're so damn proud. They'd put it down so much that they had to save face. I mean, I don't know what they were trying to do. I was devastated by that.

Maxine hands over her files on the missing girls which, as you might remember, contains dental records, family contact details, descriptions of jewelry and clothing. It's with this information and the detailed case histories of Christy, Patty and Cindy that Glenn starts to build his search warrant with Assistant District Attorney Pat Dugan, author Leland Hale.

You know, Glenn would essentially pull out the records, say, this one, this one, this one, this one, and talk to Dugan. And Dugan then would type it up and put it in legal language.

But the icing on the cake comes in two forms. The first is evidence of insurance fraud. Remember those big game trophies lining the walls in Hansen's basement? Well, Hansen had reported those stolen in 1982 and claimed $13,000 of insurance for them. But as Cindy could testify herself, the game heads were still on his wall. The second is that Glenn asks the FBI to create a profile of a possible suspect using case files on Sherry morrow, Paula Goulding and Cindy Paulson. What they come back with fits Hanson.

To a t. And so after several iterations, they were able to get that in front of a judge. And then the judge was like, yeah, no question.

It's a pitch black, freezing morning on October 27 as Glenn Flothy assembles his task force for the final push.

Everyone was walking on eggshells that morning. Everyone was saying, glenn, you'd better be right.

The plan is to serve simultaneous search warrants for Hansen's house, bakery, car and plane.

It's like a six part orchestra, right? They hit all of them simultaneously because they don't want anybody to make a call and say, the cops are here. Hurry and throw it out. No, we're all here at once.

We knew we would only have one shot at him. Once he knew we were on to him, we would never get another chance.

At 630 in the morning, two troopers sit outside Hansen's bakery on alert, waiting for him to finish work. Another set of troopers prepare to leave headquarters to go to Hanson's house. Alongside them are APD cops Greg Baker and Maxine Farrell.

Floathy didn't even ask if I could come along on the search. He just told me to be there.

Just come along. You're coming. I'm not asking your supervisor, I'm asking you.

And I said, sure, I'll be there.

The FBI has told Flothy that if Hansen is a serial killer, he may have kept mementos of his victims like jewelry. And flothy knows Maxine is the one to identify it.

I was going to go to the end of this because I had to see it come to an end because.

You are a warrior.

Must be the Indian in me.

I'm sure it is. You're walking into Robert Hansen's house. What are you feeling?

As I look up at the window, there's a wife and the two children looking out the window at all these police cars pulling up and saying, this is going to be a tough one.

And that was Darla with their two kids?

Yes. So they go up to the door and she lets us in. I'm in the living room with the wife and the children and the other guys came in behind me and went into the other rooms. And the little girl is just standing there, tears running down her face, and the little boy's scared out of his mind. Darla is just beyond words, angry and saying, why are you doing know this isn't right. It was terrible. Anybody who has children, witnessing a wife and children going through this situation can imagine what heartache it would bring, what sadness and what an impact it would have on the children as well as the wife. I often can see that little girl standing there with the tears running down her face.

What were your impressions of Darla?

She is a very beautiful lady. She's a lady in every way. And she's so trying to be so much a wife to this man she had married and faithful to say he didn't do anything wrong. He never did anything wrong. And they're christians. They go to church every Sunday, that kind of thing. And then she kind of broke down and said, well, look, you look at everything you want, you're not going to find anything.

As the house search starts in earnest, a search warrant is served at Hanson's bakery. Hansen himself voluntarily agrees to go with troopers back to headquarters for an interview where Glenn Flothy has set quite the scene.

One of the reasons the FBI came up was we anticipated getting the search warrant, but we also wanted to know how to approach Robert Hansen. What are some of the techniques you might use in the interviews? We had his files with his associates written on it and a computer printout of all the information up on the wall. I have a complete map of the Knickk river area, and I've got x's on it. And then circled around the entire area around where the two bodies were found. I've got a red circle so you can't miss it. And we also had photographs of the victims lying in the desk, blown up. I mean, these were eight by ten glossies of his victims. So when he comes in and sits down at the desk, he's looking around, he's looking at these things, but we ain't telling him nothing. So as far as what we know, you're surrounded, and we know you're the guy.

Before you open your own shop, you work for other bakeries or bakery firms. I work for Safeway. When I first came and came to.

The interviewer you are hearing here is Sergeant Daryl Galleon. Although Flothy sometimes asks a question, Galleon takes the lead in a few minutes into this interview. It's not hard to see why.

Is there a lot of competition as far as the bakery business goes here?

Daryl is a master of non confrontational small talk. He talks like this for nearly four minutes, diverging into the intricacies of moose hunting before he slides in.

Back in. After you get out of high school and get yourself into a little problem back there, there's a little minor arson.

A little minor arson. It's like a soft ambush. He has Hansen talking about his childhood, his stutter.

To talk to people embarrass me the way I talk to people accept you for who you are, the ones that count and the people that don't count. It doesn't really matter.

And then he moves in for the kill.

What about the incident in December of 19? Seven took the girl down to Kenan, back up to Sunset Lodge, back into Anchorage and drop it off.

You're arrested for that.

This is Patty Roberts, the 18 year old whose rape and kidnapping case got dropped in favor of the real estate secretary assault in 1971.

And it started off, it's just a simple, I guess you might call sex for money proposition. We performed the act and so forth. And then after a while, she started talking about she wanted more and more money. Going back to Anne acreage. I'm going to pay you the price that we agreed upon, and that's it.

We've heard what Glenn Flothy thinks about Hansen's money dispute argument. So imagine him sitting here listening to Hansen in this interview, using that same story again. And again.

What happened on Anton? Primarily the same thing. We agreed upon a certain amount of money, and then the price was supposed to be double shit. The agreed price was agreed Price, and I'm going to pay her. Not anything else.

As this familiar refrain plays out in the interview room downtown at Hanson's house, the search is in full swing. Author Leland Hale.

They're also really looking for any weapons, but two in particular look for 357 Magnum because they think that's the weapon that Hanson used when he kidnapped Cindy Paulson. And they're looking for a two, two, three, some kind of rifle which would.

Match the shell casings from Sherry Morrow and Paulo Gilding's graves.

Exactly right.

Greg Baker is in the basement where he first discovered a cachet of hidden weapons four months earlier. Back then he remembers seeing a 223 rifle.

And then I showed him where the empty passage, the empty hollow space in the wall was so they could gather up all the weapons that he had.

There's a bunch of weapons still there hidden in the wall cavity. But the 223 rifle Greg is sure he saw before, well, it's gone. And without that rifle, there is no way to connect Hansen to the murder of Paula Goulding and Sherry Morrow. Could Hansen be one step ahead of the police? On the next episode of Mind of a Monster, the butcher Baker, I think then is finally.

When it hit me, I sort of got a cold chill and it was very quiet and it was, oh my God, what has this man done?

Mind of a monster the butcher Baker is produced by Aero Media for ID. The executive producer for ID is Jessica Lauther. Aeromedia's producer is Jess Lendever, editor Millie Tapner. Audio engineering by Mahoney Audio Post our line producer is Philippa Whittle. Our production manager is Alexandra Kelly. Our junior production manager is Jodie Tanner Wilde. Our production coordinator is Shannon Tunicliffe. Our archive producer is Katia Lom. Glenn Flothy. Voiceover by Mike Bodie. And our assistant producer is Isabel Wilson. Arrow Media series producer is Gabrielle Nash, and executive producer is Stuart Pender. And I'm your host, Dr. Michelle Ward. If you like this podcast, please leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts. It really helps to spread the word.