I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. So I'm definitely not a sports girly, but I feel like I could be one with all of the exciting financial buzz going around in that world. From the epic NCAA Tournament National Title Game, that was the most watched basketball game, including NBA and WNBA, since 2019, to the NBA playoffs right around the corner, there is so much good stuff going on. So to talk about all things at the intersection of basketball and money, I am calling up my longtime homie, Darren Ravel. He is a sports business analyst, a collector extraordinaire, and also my friend for 100,000 years since we met at CNBC. Today, we talk about the rise of sports betting, what the new rookies mean for profitability of the WMBA, and the value of baseball memorabilia, if you have any lying around. Here's Darren. D-ro So, Darren Reveal, welcome back to Money Rehab.

It's so good to be here on MR.

On M&M.

Say that 10 times fast. We have so many things to talk about, but NBA Playoffs is a biggie. So talk to me about it. Can we start with sports betting? How much do you think will be exchanged on sports betting platforms over the course of the playoffs?

Well, listen, I think sports betting is going... Although I got out of it after five years in it, I think that sports betting is going to continue. I am a little bit concerned about the youth of America here as one of my 10-year-olds downloaded a betting platform. Oh, damn. Yeah. I think the key here for people who listen to your show is that gambling is just part of the life on tilt we now live. Between Bitcoin, MAM stocks, doesn't matter, how we feel every day, we wake to gamble. And we wake up to that's how our blood boils, that's how our kids are growing to grow up. And so to me, it's just interesting that we have to feel that need for that dopamine. And I just I hope that people do it in a smart manner.

Yeah, it's a dopamine cage match. Is that why you left?

No, I left because I like to be a pioneer. I thought that my next stage was bringing a a more sophisticated approach to sports collectible and collectible journalism, and it wasn't there. That's why I left.

And you're so freaking good at that. And we'll get to that in a second. But just to quickly double click on sports betting and why it's gone through all these major changes in the last year. I mean, it's happening on the state's level, right? Ohio, correct me if I'm wrong, Massachusetts, Florida, Kentucky, Maine, Vermont. They've all launched mobile sports betting in the past year-ish, but then there were some other states, like Georgia. They've shut down attempts to legalize sports betting. So what do you think are the pros and cons that these states are weighing to come up with a decision on sports betting?

Well, I think there are some states that haven't generated the money. In order to have an open system, which is allow all these sports books to operate instead of a more restricted system, you need to be able to figure out what type of money you're actually going to bring in. So I think there's been some disappointments. They've kept it quiet, but some states aren't making as much as they thought they would make. And then you have states like New York that have a 51 % tax on gross gaming revenue, which means only the big boys can come in, which means there's only five or six licenses. And so it really is state by state. I think the ones that have not dipped their toe in, there are obviously some States like Wisconsin and Utah that will be hard forever. But there are other States that think that the juice is not worth the squeeze.

Or they thought maybe it was, but then they started squeezing and looked around.

Looked around.

Damn it. There's no juice in this orange. Yes. All right. I know we're talking mostly about the NBA, but NFL, really quickly, Roger Goodell came under some fire for historically just being against sports betting, but now they have three official sports. Draftkings, FansDuel, Caesars, they allow sportsbooks to operate at league stadiums. Do you think he's doing the right thing?

All All these commissioners, all the league in 2017, wrote to the Supreme Court to say, We don't want this. And then a year and a half later, completely flipped around when the revenue came in. It's almost like the greatest collection of receipts you'll ever have in your life. I remember when I went to Vegas and Gary Bettman of the NHL basically said, Hey, we're introducing the Vegas Golden Nights, but you won't be able on them within this radius, blah, blah, blah. And of course, then when the Golden Nights came, of course, you could gamble on them. So yes, these guys look like hypocrites. The thing that I think that all teams and all league are missing is the security. They have not made the security better. And when you think about a guy who misses a shot and that costs someone on their parlay $30,000, and that person is in person, and that person is is 500 yards from the person who missed the shot. I worry that they haven't done enough on that front.

But it's all about money. Do you think it's a conflict of interest?

It's not a conflict of interest. I think in basketball, it's gotten to be tough because it's all about the stat. So there's a lot of stat parlays in basketball, where you're saying the guy is going to have more than 10 rebounds. He's going to have more than seven assists. He's going to have more than four points. And the rebounds has been a major cause of contention because the stat person will say, some guy comes down with a rebound and then it gets tipped out of his hand. And the stat person will say, that's not a rebound, it was a controlled tip. Then it doesn't go as a rebound. Then I'm getting calls when I was covering this from people, texts from people I've spoken to before, Big Bidders, saying, That was a rebound. That was a rebound. The lead, that was a rebound. And it's like, all of a sudden, these stats where no one really particularly cared because all it was was the player's stats or the team's stats. Now they care so much because one call that they perceive wrong is costing them tens of thousands of dollars.

Yeah. I mean, it brings a whole new meaning to couch refs, right? When you don't have any money on the line, it's just silly. But when you do, yeah, the rebound or the tip, the semantics makes all the difference. What do you say to be exposed to gambling, young kids or young kids at heart who are now being exposed to gambling.

Yeah. I mean, I guess it's not unlike alcohol, where the same parents of the last generation who sat their kids down and said, This is vodka. You're 15. You drink it in moderation. If you want to drink here to start, and so you don't go totally crazy at Lara Charno's house. You're a real person, by the way. You just wanted to drop, Lara Charno, what's up? I haven't spoken to you since 1996. That's what I'm saying. You have to do the same thing with gambling. I will tell you that I had a friend who did that with his son, $10, $25, whatever, and his son won $3,000. Then he said, Okay, I'm going give you half. And the son said, Okay, I'll take 1,500. He goes, Nope, you'll take 750 because that's with taxes.

Well, that's cool. He's teaching financial literacy early on.

So cool. Yes, cool. I think it comes down in the same way. And one of the things that I did to show my kids, and I didn't do the gambling thing, but they saw it through me betting, was to look at my file on my computer that says every bet I made for five years, every bet I made, whether I won or lost, what was my total? I wrote down every bet. And I also, I encourage that for anyone, you can keep track in the Action Network, my former employer, because the worst part about getting out of control with betting is the losses you forget about. And if you have it written down, you can't forget about it. Smart. So that then changes your behavior on what I should bet the next time. Or you can see, Well, I love the NBA, but I'm not good at it. It allows you to understand your own truth.

Yeah, because you can have selective memories about that. Correct. Remember that one time I crushed it?

Correct. Consulting- Remember that one time Yeah, that was awesome. That was so good.

But it's not just kids. It's everyone who's susceptible to the dopamine cage match.

And it carries over from phones to YouTube. The focus on money because of the YouTubers, the focus of my 10-year-old boys on counting their money, making money, spending money because phase rug is My sons don't know of a Honda. They never give away a Honda. They only give away Teslas. It's like the focus on money because of all these games that these influencers are doing that my boys watch, it translates then to real life and to me.

Yeah. I mean, maybe then there's also an opportunity like your friend did with his son who were like, Yeah, these are earnings. These are what taxes are. This is how debt works.

Yep. No, Absolutely.

Let's get back to basketball for a second. Kaitlyn Clarke. She's the one to watch during March Madness. A number one draft pick of the WMBA expected to make 77 grand in her first year as the number one pick compared to $10 million for the guys. The WMBA, as has been fighting this uphill battle, trying to get the very same audience and benefits as the NBA. With these rising stars, it's not just Kaitlyn, it's Angel Reece. Do you think that they're going to move the needle to make the changes that need to happen with the WMBA, finally?

She'll move the needle. Kaitlyn Clarke, so last year, the Indiana Fever averaged 4,700 fans per game, and now they're going to average 16,000. Unfortunately, the collective bargaining agreement doesn't allow a person like Kaitlyn to make off attendance or be what she really is economically to the WNBA. And so that creates a problem, which is why I said she should have gone back to Iowa, because Iowa Their Name, Image, and likeness Collective, probably would have paid her about a million dollars versus 76,000, and she still would have been able to get her endorsements. So maybe, maybe, Kaitlyn Clarke and everyone else in this class, people are talking about women's basketball more than ever before, get the WNBA to a certain point. But what is undeniable is that Kaitlyn Clarke is going to sell three times the amount of tickets that the Fever sold last year, and she's going to at least sell all these road venues. It would be nice if the collective bargaining agreement provided an avenue for her to be able to make the money that she's making these teams. So even if she doesn't work out, the hype that she's generating, she's still going to sell out all these arenas.

And so it's not fair.

I mean, but she is getting money from somewhere, right? Didn't she wear a $17,000 Prada outfit to the draft? That's 22% of her expected first year salary.

The median income in Indiana is 55,550, and she's at 76,000. And she's like, the star in Indiana. It's insane. That she's making like 21,000 a week.

Where's the product money coming from? She has money. She's getting it from somewhere.

Yeah. I know her family's not rich, but I know that she had six jerseys she used throughout the year, and two were record-breaking jerseys. I think those jerseys, as of now, are probably worth a half a million dollars each.

So is she getting in on that? As the collector extraordinaire that you are, do you think that- Yeah, she has them.

Iowa gave her the jerseys. She has the jerseys. My question is, is she going to strike when the iron's hot? Because she might not be more hot than now.

That's the issue with the athletes, right? That you have to monetize.

Go out on top. As someone who copy-edited the WNBA game programs in their first season as a sophomore at Northwestern, it's been a long road.

Go cats.

Would you invest in some Caitlin Clarke memorabilia?

I do not have Caitlin stuff. I have not found anything really, really interesting or high-end.

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So you just launched Collect.

Collect.

I really want to talk about that because it's genius. The first of its kind media company, 4 Collectors. Can you share some of your most prized basketball-specific related memorabilia and how they're valued right now?

Are you going to make me get up? Hold I mean, this is a specific one. This is cool. So in the 2000, maybe '08 or '09 season, the NBA used a synthetic basketball, and it wound up cutting players' hands, and so the NBA discontinued it. David Stern, the NBA Commissioner, the then NBA Commissioner, was pseudo angry at me for going all on how bad the basketball was. So he wrote, Darren, didn't know what to do with this discontinued model, so I autografted it and sent it to you, David Jay Stern. That's one of my favorites.

That's so passive-aggressive.

It is so passive. It is ridiculous. We just had the, what was it? The eighth anniversary of Kobe's last game. So this is his last game ticket signed by him, which I was at that game. I was there. You were there?

I was there.

Oh, my God. I was there, too.

I remember he wore the body armor or something.

Body armor towel.

Yeah. He was so, so smart getting into this.

And he said Mamba out.

Yes. And then he dropped the mic like a boss.

Yeah, like a boss. And then the 11th history of him tearing his Achilles and then going to the foul line and hitting his chef.

But he also crushed it in that last game.

Hitting his chef. Yeah, 60 points. It was amazing.

I think an issue that people run into when they're investing in alternatives. When I was at CNBC at a desk just a few feet away from yours, I did a whole series on alternative investing. So I did a spiel on horses and wine and whatever, memorabilia and stuff. And the issue around investing in these alternative investments that are so risky is that just like people don't know when the right time to sell a stock is, it's really hard to do the same thing with collectibles.

But you just said, listen, I think it's not approved as much. When I'm loading stuff from eBay and auctions in my house, my wife is like, WTF. Does she ever ask about our stocks? Never. So it's I have more money in stocks than this collectively. But that's what it is. It's like when I walked in on one evening with a brown bag full of ties from the streets of New York, and my wife says, We got to stop doing this. This is not classey. And I go, Let's do something. I'm going to take five ties from my closet that are like zanias. Then I'm going to take five street ties. And if you guess five out of 10, I will stop buying on the street. Three out of 10. Three out of ten. So a lot of it is about what is the norms in society. And yes, the Financial Times wrote the dumbest column, which is like, Collectibles is a great way to lose your money if you want to lose your money. No. Bad business people are bad at business. You still have to have a take. You still have to make moves.

You still have to watch it. You You have to have a strategy. Alt assets are just more risky because a lot of people go into Alt and they're not sound at business. They don't have a strategy. The stock market has 150 years of this is what's happened. So I think collectibles are a great way to make money. If you have a strategy, know what you're doing. We are going to be the hobby watchdog. When something's going down that's not happening, that shouldn't happen, we will cover it. We are going to be the hobby cheerleader. We will cheer when there's amazing things happening. We will be the educator. We want to do tons of FAQs. Tomorrow I have a story. Should you get it graded? You have a card, you found it in a shoe box, you think it's in great condition. In 1985, this was a great card. It's the Roger Clemens' 1985 Tops Card, and you think it's great, and send it to PSA to get graded. Well, let me tell you something. Roger Clemens' Topps rookie in a PSA 9 out of 10 is worth $34, right? And it costs $40 to get graded.

So You got to be careful. You could literally lose money by not knowing what you're doing. And there's a lot of people asking, and we've had a great first week. And I'm really excited to do this full-time because instead of champagne wishes and caviar dreams, I have champagne wishes and eBay dreams. I do.

You always have.

I dream about eBay. I'm so proud of you. Oh, thank you.

My next book is coming out. It actually has a whole section on alternatives and sports memorabilia.

What is it? What is it called? Money Bishatch 3?

There's no Bishatch in it. But you know who the real MVP is?

Who? Mrs.

Ravel.

She's the real MVP.

Dylan is being married to you and all your bananas.

Who the hell could put up with me? Who the hell could put up with me? I am the worst. I am the absolute worst.

You are the best.

You always- Let's have dinner at Sugarfish soon.

D-ro, we end our episodes by asking our guests for a money tip listeners can take straight to the bank. I know you have all of them, but is there something specific that listeners can think about when it comes to investing in sports memorabilia?

Yeah, When investing in memorabilia, just always know that an anniversary is a great time to flip and always keep that anniversary in mind. I usually have 30 or 40 anniversaries that I have in my head two to four years down the road. When I bought my Farris Buhler vest in December 2022, I knew that I had June fifth, 2025 as the anniversary of Farris' Day off. When I'm buying some of our founding fathers and things that are signed by them, I have the 250th anniversary of America in our minds in 2026. Trade into news cycles.

Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your moneyquestions, moneyrehab@moneynewsnetwork. Com, to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram at Money News and TikTok at Money News Network.work for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.