When I'm not hosting this podcast, I am writing books, but it is really hard for me to write when I'm at home, so I like to find remote cabins in the middle of nowhere to just hang out and write. But I hate the idea of my house just sitting empty, doing nothing but collecting dust and definitely not collecting checks. And that's why I'm an Airbnb host. It's one of my all-time favorite side hustles. Other popular side hustles are awesome, too, don't get me wrong, but they often involve big startup costs. By hosting your space, you're monetizing what you already have access to. It It doesn't get easier than that. And if you're new to the side hustle game and you're anxious about getting started, don't worry, because you're not in this alone. Airbnb makes it super easy to host. I mean, if I could do it, you could do it. And your home might be worth a lot more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb. Com/host. I'm Nicole Lappin, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand. It's time for some money rehab. As promised, here is our second edition in a two-part deep dive into some more unconventional money takes we don't cover everyday here on Money Rehab.

In this episode, I'm talking to Peggy Van de Plosh about Magic Mush. I'll explain. Peggy is a former banker and venture capitalist who spent two decades in financial services and then burned out, and found success again, yes, through microdosing on mushrooms. Now, let me answer some questions you might be asking yourself. While Peggy's stance is that microdosing helps entrepreneurs in business, that's not what I am saying here, necessarily. If you're a driver's Ed teacher, for example, you shouldn't be under the influence of anything when you're teaching kids. And even if you do have a less motor skills-focused job, every substance affects people differently. I can drink two cups of coffee an hour until 2:00 PM and still sleep-ish. And I have a friend who can't drink anything stronger than matcha. So my point is, talking to Becky today is not to convince you that you need to add mushrooms to your morning routine. I just find this trend, like the biohacking trend I talked about in my most recent episode with Neil Perak, to be super interesting. And it's a strong trend, especially in Silicon Valley. Elon Musk takes ketamine. Serguey Brin sometimes enjoys psilocybin, AKA magic mushrooms.

Steve Jobs was said to have partaken in psychedelics. So I don't know about you, but I want to know why. That's what Peggy can answer. Oh, and Peggy does have a beautiful accent. For all my pals who need speech accommodation, I've linked the transcript to our conversation in the show notes. So ready for a trip? Here's Peggy. Peggy Vandaplash, welcome to Money Rehab.

Thank you so much for having me, Nicole Lapa. It's a pleasure to be here with you.

If only all of our guests said it that way.

I have had so many guests on the show talking about what they think the secret to professional success is, but no one has ever yet said microdosing. I guess today is the day.

Today is the day, yes. I think actually we're going to connect the dots with many conversation you might have, but that might be the piece of a puzzle that was missing, actually.

Why do you say microdosing is the key to success in our careers?

For many reason. When you microdose psilocybin, you're going to see three types of benefits. The first is performance-related, the second is mental health-related, and the third one is really consciousness related. All of that, you really need to be successful. But I would say more importantly, if you really use microdosing psilocybin in combination with a couple of tools like tapping, meditation, and journaling, you're going to really be able to work on this limiting belief. For example, money is hard to come by, or people like me don't make a lot of money. You're going to be able to work on your past emotional wounds. So for example, your parents had a bankruptcy, money problem, it's something you have internalized. Or you can also look at some emotions you have when you think and you talk about money, that may be sadness, anger, shame, guilt. So all of that, the point is to reprogram your brain and your body and your emotions. So that's what we're going to talk about today.

Yes, we all have so much financial trauma.

And when you say psilocybin, it's What's it called?

It's mushrooms.

It's magic mushrooms, exactly. Cylocibin is actually the active component. It's a bit like saying LSD and acid, MDMA and moly. It's just one is the name that is the scientific name and what is the strict name?

But it's the same thing.

Same thing. If you're saying psilocybin, it's the same as saying magic mushrooms.

Let's help our listeners who are thinking right now, are you guys talking about taking drugs? How much are you talking about with microdosing? You're not suggesting that people go get super high wasted, like rave style.

Absolutely not. Actually, that's the whole point of microdosing. You take extremely small quantity, 100 milligram, which is tiny for magic mushroom every two or three days. So think about it almost as a supplement, what you would take with whatever supplement you might be taking every day. So you will not feel anything. It just works the background, but there is no physical effect. You will not feel high at all. On the contrary, you will feel focused. You will feel increased memory. You will feel better attention. So it's exactly the opposite of being high, actually.

Is it comparable to having a glass of wine? If you've had a microdose or a little bit more than microdose, you can still drive yourself home, that type of thing?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you're not feeling anything. Actually, it's way less than having a glass of wine. If I have a glass of wine, it's not a great idea for me to drive after. But if I have a microdose, I microdose this morning, I don't feel it. I just take my day and that's that.

I have a lot of friends in the business community who swear by microdosing, and they say, to your point, that it's really accelerated years and years of therapy. Is that what you've found? Or can you tell us a little bit more about the science behind that?

What I really, really like with microdosing is that it brings everything together. So microdosing Dosing by itself, and I really want people who are listening today to understand that it is not a magic pill. It's not, okay, you microdose and suddenly everything is fine and all your limiting belief, emotional wounds, everything disappears. No, no, no, no. But it accelerates your overpractices. So as I was mentioning, journaling, tapping, meditation. So I wrote a book called The Microdose Diet, which is a 90-day program, which is really you're using microdosing, but you're using over tools as well. Because microtosing lower your ego barriers, it, to your point, really increases the impact of what you're doing in addition to that.

It's one part of an overall mental health, physical health diet, you suggest. You specifically talk about burnout here. My third book, as you might know, was focused all around burnout. This was an area that I didn't look into. Potentially, there's a part two of it. But I do think that that's the next level of really focusing on taking care of your mental health to optimize success in your career, to optimize success across your life. Tell me a little bit more about how specifically microdosing can help with burnout. How has it helped you?

I used to be in finance. I did 20 years in finance, and my last role was a venture capitalist. I would say the pandemic, like many people, had a negative impact on Actually, I've probably always had a mental health issue. I just probably never realized that, to be honest. When you have high pressure jobs, you're just like, Well, that's part of the territory. It's just what it is. For me, starting microdosing really helped me with depression, anxiety, and stress. I used to have tremendous amount of neurosis and control. I would wake up in the middle of the night doing emails. I was at a level of anxiety from 0 to 10 12. Right now, I'm definitely in the normal range, and I'm actually way more productive. That's the thing. Sometimes, unfortunately, we think anxiety helps us perform, and it's the other way around. But for many people, there is this perspective that anxiety is keeping me protected because I'm always on the defense. But actually, you're missing a lot of opportunities because you cannot be open for that. You're just to stress to your maximum capacity.

Well, thank you for sharing that. I know that's very relatable, especially in the business and finance community. You say this isn't your own experience alone. A lot of other top performing CEOs, VCs, are indulging in this performance enhancer. If you can, can you tell me specifically who?

No, I don't think I can disclose any name. But actually, what's very interesting The thing that if you read the Wall Street Journal, two days ago, there was an article published on women in high position who were microtosing psilocybin. You can find names there of CEOs and of executives. But I can tell you that all the people I've been advising are all my former peers. So CEOs, exec, lawyers, a lot of tech funders. I mean, microtosing is not something that we invented last year. It's been like 20, 30 years in the Silicon Valley, people have been doing that. But there's been a huge resurgence in the last few years. And for me, the best comfort is to know that moms actually microdose mushrooms. That makes me feel better that, okay, if a mom is comfortable doing that, well, I think that's good for me.

Yeah, you're right. It's been around for several decades, but I think in the last one, it's gained in popularity, especially in Silicon Valley, Silicon Valley, and those communities. But beyond that, who would you say microdosing is for? I mean, yes, if monks can do it, I suppose it's for anyone. But I don't imagine people like airline pilots should be microdosing, or should they?

Actually, it's always the same I'm saying that the challenge we have is with the legality of it. That's why we are saying we should or we shouldn't. But half of Wall Street is on Adderall, which is something that technically is legal and technically is healthy, or at least prescribed by health professionals. We need to keep in mind that we've been, I would say, brainwashed, but we have very strong stigma from the war on drugs for the last 50 years. If Nixon had taken another direction, yes, airline pilots would probably microdose because it improves their focus and attention. That's probably a very good thing if they would to microdose. It's just we're looking at it with a very different paradigm. We're coming from a place that is more fearful than if we had looked at it as the medicine that it is, which enhances each of us. So it is not something that we should be afraid of, actually.

To be clear, psilocybin is not legal. It's not legal in the United States. Is it legal anywhere?

In the United States, it's legal in Denver, it's legal in Oakland. You have actually many countries, cities, states that are legalizing psilocybin. It really depends where you are and when you are, because the cycle of decriminalizing and legalizing is really going at all speed. Yes, in Oregon, you can microdose and take mushrooms without any challenge.

In Colorado, in Oregon, I guess, Oakland, you just go to the store and get psilocybin. Are we just talking a literal mushroom here? Capsules, chocolate?

Yeah, exactly. For example, I live in Toronto. In In Canada, everywhere, it is not legal yet, but you have shops everywhere. So you just go and you buy whatever you want. So I have my own my producing line. I have a product I sell. Actually, I ship as well to the US. I ship to Canada. And it's not Pablo Escobar. You're not paying 10 kilos of ROI. You're shipping a little bottle of 30 pills of 100 milligram that people take for their mental health. It's very different. That's the challenge is that my Microdosing is very different from recreational and taking big dosage.

When you decided to start a business around this, what were some of the concerns you had, the legality concerns?

Well, it started because I wrote a book. There was no concern because I'm writing a book. No one can sue me because I wrote a book on how to mindfully microdose. Then I started doing public speaking. Then I launched a product, actually, a clinic in Vancouver. I started being a bit nervous, to your point, because it's tolerated in some places, it's legal in some places, but in some places, it is not legal. But at this point, I'm looking also at it as civil disobedience in the sense that you cannot just wait for things to change in order to do something about it. For those to change, you always had to have people to push the boundaries, whether it's for a woman to be to vote, whether for segregationists, knows you what people want to push. It's not different with psilocybin. Many people are actually not just starting business, but also being very vocal because they want to move a goalpost.

They want to move the legal goalpost. They want to move toward legality. I'd love to, Peggy, dig into the science and the health benefits a little bit more. Let's start with you, like micro, and then, no pun intended, and then go How often do you personally microdose?

I microdose every three days, 100 milligram. You have different modalities. Some people is going to do every two days. Some people are going to take Monday to Friday. That's as simple as that. There is nothing more complicated than this. You just take your microdose every three days, the same way you would take any type of supplements. I like to connect to my intention of why I'm taking it and why I'm doing that. But otherwise, there is no more complexity. After the practice that I personally developed around that is a growth practice. The goal is, as we said, having more success, having more passion, more happiness in your life. But Some people just microdose.

How did you figure out that cadence for yourself?

Do you think of it as needed, preventative?

Are there some people microdosing every day to prevent stress or just doing it when they feel extra you're stressed?

I did a lot of research in order to really optimize the frequency. Some people do microdose more. At the end of the day, it's not necessary. Your body, actually, the more you take it, The less your body needs it. I was microdosing more at the beginning and I'm microdosing less and less. It's actually the other way around than most medication that is constantly increasing your dosage. Some people just going to take a microdose. They're studying for an exam, for example, and they really want to have focus. They don't microdose all year round. They just microdose for one week of their preparation of their exam. I don't do that because, again, I do it in a very strategic and long-term protocol approach. But some people just do that. It's like, okay, let's say you have something, as you say, you're stressed about. Maybe you have a networking event, you don't want to go or something. I don't know, the holidays with with your parents. Well, maybe you're going to microdose the entire week just to be maybe also a bit more relaxed. In that context, it's less about performance, it's more about mental health, less stress, less anxiety.

What are some of the common side effects?

The side effects, I would say, really depends on are you doing it properly or not. If you start taking 10 times the dosage, the side effect is going to be you're going to be high. If you are pregnant, if you are breastfeeding, not a good idea, obviously, to take that. If you have very big mental health issue, like schizophrenia, not a good idea to do that. That's pretty much it. There is not recorded side effects. You cannot get addicted. You cannot over dose. I was in Oakland last week, and it's like zombie Apocalypse between fentanyl and OxyContin and all that crap. This is absolutely not the same type of medicine in the sense, but you will never get into that type of state.

Can you help us understand why that is, scientifically?

Well, because there is not that addictive component that you find in other drugs. I mean, why was OxyContin or even Fetanil, that's why you find Fetanil now in cocaine, because the whole point is for you to be addicted. Mushms is a natural component. It is something that is, obviously, I don't forage in the forest, but it is a natural ingredient. It has not been tampered with in order to make it addictive. It's the overall run. It's the chemical products that have been put in this overproducts to make them addictive, not the overall run.

What It's different from magic mushrooms than normal mushrooms. Isn't there a chemical on it?

No, just on this silucid, which is a specific component that's going to make it magic. It's just a different rate of mushrooms. Some of it, some I have a friend who's actually a doctor, and she was growing them in her bathroom over the pandemic, and she was explaining to me the process.

It sounded not that difficult, but I wasn't sure what the magic part was.

It's just the type of mushroom. Instead of growing a chanterelle or more than, she's growing magic mushroom. The thing is that there's nothing easier than growing mushroom. You just need some level of humidity. I mean, mushrooms, you find that everywhere. As long as you have the right spot, it's not very complicated. That's why you see many people who actually grow their own supply at home. They have quality and access constant. That's one thing we should mention is that for people who are listening, who are interested in microdosing, I would recommend two things. One, make sure that you have access to quality product. Second is really follow a regimen. Again, you cannot be addicted You cannot overdose, but follow regimen so you get the most of it. Do it intelligently.

I assume that just in the last 5 years, 10 years, there's been a ton more research The science behind the health benefits here. What's the most compelling that you've seen?

In 2018, the FDA tagged psilocybin as breakthrough therapy for depression. You see a lot of studies that have been happening with the Department of Veterans in the US for PTSD and addictions. You see it a lot for mental health. All the research you see is mainly for mental health because it's in the context of a medicine It's not so much research for performance. It is really research for the mental health. Some people are looking into it for inflammation, so artresies and things like that. There are plenty of applications actually that are being researched right now. I would say mental health is number one.

Why do you think, more recently, too, it's become more resonant within the business and tech communities? I've seen it just anecdotally.

I think it's the mental health of people first has gone down dramatically, but it's also the fact that we're seeing the limit of antidepressants, anti-anxiety, and therapy. It's not as if people would have had tremendous results with what we've had today in terms of tools. They did exactly like me. They looked at what are the tools that exist today. Some might have used them, some might not. And, wow, it doesn't work great. What else can I do? And that's simply a need that created that innovation, as always with innovation.

Do you think that within the tech communities, there's more experimentation with the limits of what this an MDMA can do for mental health?

No, I think you see that in every group. You see that in finance a lot. You see that in media entertainment. Yes, technology may be slightly more in the sense that there is more this idea of innovation, biohacking, that culture that is maybe a slightly more pioneering But you see that simply because people suffer in all the different industries. I mean, in finance, it's pretty bad. The level of addiction, alcoholism, people want to deal with their stress, their anxiety, their depression, the constant pressure to perform at work. And now they're like, Well, if I can do it in a way that is safer for me and more accessible, well, I hope people are going to transition more and more from what they're doing now to that, actually. It's way safer for everyone else.

Hold on to your wallet. Moneyrehab will be right back. Moneyrehabbers, you have money hidden in your house. Yeah, just hiding there in plain sight. Okay, so I don't mean you have gold bars hidden somewhere in walls, treasure map style. But you do have a money-making opportunity that you're just leaving on the table if you're not hosting on Airbnb. It's one of my all-time favorite side hustles. By hosting your space, you are monetizing what you already own. It doesn't get easier than that. For me, hosting on Airbnb has always been a no-brainer. When I first signed up, I remember thinking to myself, self, you pay a lot of money for your house. It is time that house return the favor. And to get real with you for a sec, I felt so much guilt before treating myself on vacation because traveling can be so expensive. But since hosting on Airbnb, I feel zero stress for treating myself to a much-needed vacation because having Airbnb guests stay at my house when I'm traveling helps offset the cost of my travel. So it's such a win-win. I mean, if I could do it, you could do it. And your home might be worth more than you think.

Find out how much at airbnb. Com/host. Do you ever get FOMO, fear of missing out? Well, do you ever get FOMO-Tupita, fear of missing out on the perfect higher? If so, I have the antidote. It's LinkedIn jobs. Linkedin jobs helps you hire professionals you can't find anywhere else, even those who aren't actively searching for a new job but might be open to the perfect role. In any given month, over 70 % of LinkedIn users don't visit other leading job sites nights, and that adds up to a serious squad of awesome candidates. Linkedin has over a billion professionals on the platform, and these candidates are super qualified, so much so that 86 % of small businesses get a qualified candidate within just 24 hours. I work with LinkedIn jobs for all of my dream team needs, so they're hooking up money rehabbers at linkedin. Com/mnen. Go there and you can post your job for free. That's linkedin. Com/mnen, as in Money News Network. To post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. And now for some more money rehab.

And if somebody doesn't know what biohacking is, can you define that? And would you consider microdosing part of biohacking?

It's absolutely part of biohacking. Whether it's what you've seen with fasting, intermittent fasting, whether the supplements, whether everything that is supposed to improve your own physical and mental performance fall into that biohacking bucket. So microdosing is absolutely one element that you would have in biohacking.

My theory is that it's become more prevalent in the tech and business communities because so many of the leaders in those spaces have spent their health in their younger years getting wealth. And now that they got wealth, they would do anything to get back their health.

Yeah, I don't know, because you see all age groups microdosing. I have a lady, she's in her 80s, and you have obviously people like Gen Z while microdosing. So it's the entire spectrum. Obviously, because Gen X and the people I'm working with are the same age group and the same type of position. That's what I see, people between 35 and 55. But you see it above and below because people are desperate. Trust me, if they don't get up one morning thinking, great, I'm going to take magic mushrooms because we're all still very afraid. As I said, with a stigma, you're doing that because you want it, because you need it. It's not just experimenting on a Saturday night with your friends in the basement. It's healing. It's really for healing.

We can't ignore that stigma. I have to say, if one of my employees made a mistake at work, it would hit different, Peggy. If I knew that they were making that mistake after taking any drugs, even microdosing, I would say. What would you say to someone who has this bias against microdosing?

Bias is like any bias. It's looking for why. The why. What's very interesting for me is the bias we don't have towards alcohol the bias we don't have towards prescribed drugs, the bias we don't have so much against tobacco because these are legal. I think for me, it's just funny. Tomorrow, it's legal. Okay, so that's fine then. Tomorrow, alcohol is not Okay, so now it's bad. It's just a frame of mind. I think that's really the way to look at it, which is, okay, so basically I'm not making my own decisions. It's people who write the laws, who decided what is legal, what is not legal. In the healthcare industry, as you understand, there is a lot of lobbying. There is not a lot of interest in having solutions like that that are natural and cheap. You cannot patent a mushroom. That's a lot of money that could be lost by the healthcare industry if now you're not taking Prozac or Xanax and you're microdosing psilocybin. We are saved, I would say, because veterans and first responders are suffering so much, politicians have no choice than to step in. That's why you've seen so much progress in the research and in the change of legal framework.

If it wasn't for that, you would not because the healthcare industry is pouring so much money in lobbying, but you will never have seen that if the situation was not that bad.

Where do you see the legality going? In the next 5 years, 10 years?

Unfortunately, I think it's going to be very piecemeal. For example, in the US, where you have some places in the US is totally criminal to have even 100 milligram, and some places where you can buy 5 grams and work with it. It is the challenge of not having a federal framework, like the same frame you have with cannabis, where some places it's okay. Canada is a bit different because For example, cannabis, it's federally regulated and it's legal. Hopefully, it's going to happen with cash flow very soon, but it is going to depend on the country and the geography. But thank God, because of mental health benefits, I think legislator will have no choice than to look at what is best for their citizens, starting with their veterans and their first responders.

Because really, it's for people with mental health issues that are existing treatment resistant.

Well, yeah, you can say resistant in the sense that it doesn't work.

Where would you put this? Because I have a group of friends who are really, really into biohacking, and they're They're dosing psilocybin. They're doing therapeutic MDMA. They're trying ketamine infusions and ayahuasca. Then there's a whole ayahuasca retreat that I was invited to in Costa Rica called Rhythmia that was started by a CEO who made hundreds of millions of dollars but was unhappy. Where would you put this in the group of those types of alternative medicines?

It's one piece. I've done journeys myself, and it does nothing to do with that. Yeah, you're using the same product, but it's very different. It's the same as doing a wine testing with your friend and then going Florida, Mexico for spring break and doing in your mouth. That's the same thing. Obviously, the results are very different, but you cannot compare the process of the results. I think journeys are great, but journeys needs to be with professionals. You need to be guided with people who know what they are doing in very, very secure context. Here, it's a do it yourself at home. So the power is to you, and it's way cheaper as well. Not everyone can afford that.

And that's part of why I wanted to write more of the books, because all this stuff is really, really expensive. And so I wanted to be the guinea pig to test it out and give the cheap code around it. But when you say journey, you mean an ayahuasca journey or like a kentamine infusion journey?

Exactly. So a large dose. For example, I went to the West Coast, and for example, I went to the West Coast. For five days, I was with Shaman, and I did a couple of journey, which means you take a large dose, and for 6, 8, 10 hours, you're journeying and coming on the other side. So very, very different experiences.

And while there's a lot of work that's being done around PTSD and veterans and first responders, as you mentioned, it's still really expensive, which is another reason that probably the CEO founder type community is gravitating toward it. Where do you think the linkage is between money and these new practices that are popping up? Is it perhaps that money will not buy happiness? And so they're dealing with this even after a tremendous amount of success?

Well, I think you have a tremendous amount of linkage with psychedelic and money. But if we look just at this idea of people who are wealthy and trying to discover themselves or starting this type of retreat, I think that's okay. You check the box of, I'm supposed to make a lot of money because I'm in the Western society, and that's what I was told was happiness and success. And when you get there, you realize that, well, maybe that was not just that. You want to find more happiness, more fulfillment, really in your life, and hopefully, leave the world a better place. There's a lot of the people you're mentioning, they build companies, not always companies that bring value to the world, let's be honest, and not always by playing nice either. If you really look, they might have made a lot of money, but their impact on the world is pretty negative. Now they're like, Okay, well, maybe I can rebalance the spreadsheets by making myself a better person and helping others being a better person. I would think so. I'm not in that position.

Yeah. I've long said that money without meaning is just paper. I think what I've seen anecdotally is just people getting to a point of having tons of money but lacking some of that meaning behind it.

Well, and we're going back a bit to the beginning of the conversation, and it's really about this belief, this wants related about money. Why did you want that money? Is it because you felt you were less than? Is it because you wanted the security? Is it because you couldn't do the school trip because your parents could not afford? And all these reasons, they're working in the back of your mind, and maybe they give you drive to be successful, but not necessarily fulfilled. And that's the thing that I believe is so important is that I love money. Don't get me wrong, I want more of it. I'm absolutely not saying that money is bad. That's not my point. I'm just saying that you want to understand why you want it and you want to get it and have it and manage it in a fulfilling and expensive way instead of coming from scarcity, greed, competition, like that very patriarchal model. That's the way I look at it. Yes.

You said expansive, not expensive.

Expensive.

Going back to the beginning as well, you talk about this being part of many things that you should do to improve and sustain good mental health practices. You mentioned tapping as one of them. What is that?

Oh, tapping. It's about using the meridians on your body. The meridians is really linked with Chinese medicine. So when you tap, you tap on certain points and you connect, for example, to an event that has been happening, I don't know, this morning or 10 years ago or whatever that created negative emotion, anxiety or anger. Again, you couldn't make the school trip and you still feel bad about it. And the beauty of tapping is that it's going to break the connection between your mind and body between that emotion that is stuck probably in your body and in your mind and the memory. Basically, you're going to be able after to go through life without constantly having that weight of that problem that you might have. For some things that are extremely complicated, you're going to have to tap more than once and probably take it from many different angles. But the goal is really to remove this emotional challenge related to some of us, it depends.

That crop is always still there. From the school trip, I'm sure the body keeps scoring. It always comes back if you don't deal with it. But I assume that that's part of a technique to retrain neural pathways. I've done a bunch of EMDR that I've talked about on the show. Similar philosophy, I guess.

Exactly. It's all about rewiring your brain, but also calming your body. Because The challenge is that, of course, we know about the mind-body connection. If you just work on the mind, the body keeps the score. But if you just work on your body, well, your mind keeps the score as well. You need to work both concurrently. You also need to understand that one eighth of the mind is conscious, the rest is unconscious. I love all the mindset work. That's great. But it's basically working on 5% of the entire problem because your conscious mind and then your body and then your emotion override your conscious mind every time. I love writing positive affirmation and doing vision boards, but it's not going to bring you very far if you're not cleaning the crap first.

I feel like this idea of microdosing or using other forms of alternative medicine, and I'm referring to l'acetamine or MDMA as therapeutic, in a therapeutic in a therapeutic way, comes after you've done a lot of that cleaning of your side of the street type thing with talk therapy and these other modalities of journaling and tapping and other things that you've already started this process if we're skipping to using either psilocybin or something else.

I think it's really a combination. If you're doing talk therapy, for example, or if you're doing journaling or tapping, as I mentioned, concurrently, microdosing is going to help you go deeper and faster. I really like the combination of both. After, to your point, for someone who's looking into journey, maybe this ketamine clinic, that big injection, or ayahuasca retreat, or all these things. Then I agree with you, it's better if you've done already some work, or otherwise you're going there blind and you have no idea why are you even going there. My producing is very different. It's a day-to-day, I won't say lifestyle, but it's people who are constantly working on themselves. If you're doing coaching, if you're doing therapy, anything you're doing to not just better yourself, but heal yourself, my producing is going to help you find that.

Sister, it is a lifelong journey. It is.

But it's important, as you say, to find guides.

It sounds like maybe microdosing is more DIY, but I had a terrible experience where I did a ketamine therapy without a guide, and it made things even worse. You got to be really, really careful with this type of stuff and be really, really careful of where you go. I'm stating the obvious, of course.

Well, that's the challenge of this big dose. I have people telling me, Oh, I'm doing a psilocybin trip in my basement and my wife is going to watch over me. I'm like, I don't know. It doesn't seem like a great idea to me. But say, Yeah, your wife is going to watch to make sure you're not wondering the street or whatever. But what's happening inside, no one is really here to help you, which is what happened to you with that ketamine journey.

To process it. If you want the therapeutic benefits, you need to focus on that. It's a totally different story than just having a good time.

Preparation and integration. People just keep to be experienced. That's actually not the right approach. Again, microtosing is very different anymore. Same substance, that's why people sometimes make the parallel, but nothing to do in terms of experience, in terms of danger as well, let's be honest. That's not something you will see with my photos.

Yeah. I also like, because I'm still a numbers person, as which I say, do play in a woo-woo world. It's dosed. You're not just taking a random amount that you don't know how much you're taking.

Exactly. The product I developed with that clinic in Vancouver, so you have 100 milligram of psilocybin, but you have some lion's mane to help you with You have cognitive abilities. You have some green tea extract to help you with your energy. Everything is packaged in the little cup, so you don't have to start thinking about it. It's very handy versus growing it in your bathroom and now, okay, you have to grow it, you have to take it, you have to dry it, you have to cut it, you have to wait. And that gets a bit more complicated to do it properly.

Yeah, totally. I once had a friend who walked around with a whole basket of those type of actual mushrooms, caps and stems and stuff. She was just like, What is this? You can just randomly take it. Anyway, that's why I appreciate the microdosing and all of the science behind it. Peggy, you are a wealth of information around this. Thank you so much. We end our episodes by asking all of our guests for a tip that listeners can take straight to the bank. It can be anything. I know your background is in banking and the VC I'd love to hear one tip that listeners can use, money tip in investing, saving, budgeting, anything.

Slow and steady win the race. So don't go for the silver bullet. Don't go for the exciting stuff, the meme stock, the Bitcoin whatever. Not a good idea. So maybe your neighbor is going to be happy and he's going to be lucky with this timing, but this is not repeatable and this is not scalable. So keep with the trusted strategies if you want to have a good of return.

Yeah, we like it boring.

We like boring.

You want a sexy fun time? Go have a journey. You want a lot of money? Keep it in index funds and chill. Exactly.

Money Rehab is a production of Money News Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab? And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your moneyquestions, moneyrehab@moneynewsnetwork. Com. Com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one-on-one intervention with me. And follow us on Instagram at Money News and TikTok at Money News Network for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you. Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.