In the '90s, New York Detective Louis Scarsella locked up the worst criminals. Putting bad guys away. There's no feeling like it. Then Jailhouse Lawyers took aim, led by Derek Hamilton. Scarsella took me to the precinct and died. Twenty men eventually walked free. Now, in the Burden podcast, after a decade of silence, Louis Scarsella finally tells his story, and so does Derek Hamilton. Listen to the Burden on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Podcasts. Hey, this is Dan. And this is Reid Isbell. And we're the host of the podcast God's Country. Check out our latest episode with our good old buddy, Luke Holmes. Yeah, I know you saw him on Grammys performing Fast Car with Tracy Chapman. But did you know he once ran the Go Carts at Asheville Fun Depot? You can get seven minutes out there. Absolutely no bumping. Definitely listen to this episode. If you like liver mush, gross. If it was called Breakfast Delight, you'd be like, That sounds pretty cool. I would try that. Listen to God's Country on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. All that sitting and swiping, our backs hurt, our eyeballs sting.

That's our bodies adapting to our technology. But we can do something about it. We saw amazing effects. I really felt like the cloud in my brain dissipated. There's no turning back from me. Make 2024 the year you put your health before your inbox and take the Body Electric challenge. Listen to Body Electric from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. A group of high school students. High school students. Elizabeth and high school students started a project to research a string of unsolved murders. Their research led to the identification of the killer. Investigators now have an answer to a 34-year-old question. Once you start getting a few tips or a few leads or few identifications, then the cold case isn't so cold anymore. There's a pretty good chance he's still alive. Everything that the students predicted through their profile turned out to be accurate. Redhead killer profile. Male, Caucasian, 5'9 to 6'2, 180 to 270 pounds. Unstable home, absent father and a domineering mother. Right-handed, IQ above 100, most likely heterosexual. There is no profile of this killer except for the ones the students created. Just because some of these women no longer have people to speak for them does not mean that they deserve to not be spoken for.

What if this guy is still alive? What if he He comes after us? I said, Are you going to kill me? He said, Yes. This is murder 101, Season 1, Episode 10, The Final Exam. I'm Jeff Shane, a television and podcast producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker, Courtney Armstrong, and Andrew Arnault. In 2020, I came across a story about a group of high school students who set out to investigate a series of unsolved murders in their community. It was an incredible story that here at KT Studios, we felt needed to be explored further. I'd like to thank everybody for coming down. Thank you for being patient with us. My name is Alex Campbell, and I'm a teacher at Lisbethon High School. The reason we called you all here today is to provide some updates on the Bible Belt Strangler case. On February 6, 2023, Mr. Campbell, Riley and Marley, met more than 30 members of the press law enforcement and locals at Elizabethton County Chamber of Commerce to present the latest findings. It was a moment the club had been working toward for months. First, Mr. Campbell summarized the work they had done thus far.

I was a teacher in 2018 when my sociology class wanted to do as a project to see if there was any relationship between any of these murders that happened. So in May of 2018, that class called a press conference to announce about the work they had been doing. And they believe that they had some information that did show that maybe six of these murders could be related back to one person. Because for 30 years, nothing really happened with most of those cases. It was just completely cold. From about 1985 till 2018. So there has been a lot of developments in the last few years, and there's a lot of things to catch you up on. And the students think they've found some more evidence that they're going to share with you today. So I'm going to turn it over to them. Here's some girls. It's all yours. Next, Reilly and Marley spoke. On September 6, 2018, the TBI release of the Campbell County Jane Doe had been identified as Tina Marie McKinney Farmer of Indianapolis. After speaking with family, new information reveals that she is at the epicenter of the Bible Bell Strangler case. Not long after that, on October first, 2018, KSP announced the Knox County Jane Doe as Ebsey Regina, Black Pilgrim of North Carolina.

But after further research, we determined that she is not a potential victim the Bubble Bell Strangler case. Then lastly, on November 25th, 2018, the TBI and New Hampshire authorities announced that the Green County Jane Doe is Elizabeth Lamont of New Hampshire, and she is involved in the Bubble Bell in a similar case. On December 20th of 2019, the TBI announced that Tina Farmer's killer was identified as Jerry Johns because his DNA was matched with DNA that was left at the crime scene. So Johns had been in prison since 1985 for charges relating to trying to kill a Tennessee red-headed woman, but he died in custody in 2015, so he did not live to see the conviction of this murder. Also, Baby Girl Jane, though, was identified as Tracy Sue Walker of Indiana. She was She was 14 years old at the time of her death, so we think that she could be included in the Bible about strangling victims because of different evidence in the crime scene and the M-O signature. They pointed to the extensive update since the original assignment. This was our original list developed by the class in 2018 of potential victims of the Bible Belt Strangling.

You see there are a lot of Jane Doe's, a lot of unidentified victims. And then next, this is our current list that we think could be tied back to the Bible Belt as a strangler. You can see there are a lot more identifications, a lot less Jane Doe's, which is something very encouraging for us that law enforcement is continuing to identify these victims. I think that's in part to some of the research in the press conference that was held in 2018. They also spoke about the they've done since then. We were able to work with an FBI behavior analyst, and that was really cool getting to work with a professional and someone that had done this for years and then giving us the green light and telling us that our work was pretty substantial. So he also said he was 100% convinced that the person who killed Tina Farmer is guilty of others based on his admission to being at the secondary crime scenes. The suspect would also fit the profile by exhibiting these classical serial killer behaviors such as knowing a lot about serial killers, even mentioning them by name. He studied criminal justice and serial killers in three different colleges.

He felt he was smarter than the police. Then might say an incriminating statement like he didn't do it, but would offer how he would have done it, et cetera. Then our FBI behavior analyst said, he would be my number one suspect, and a jury would convict him every single time. As well, we presented to a retired detective who had decades of experience and had also worked on many homicides. Then after seeing the evidence, he was asked if he would give this to a district attorney to take to a grand jury. His answer was, Oh, yes, I would work with it. Then lastly, we presented to a district attorney who had decades of experience as well in legal practices and as a former assistant district attorney. Then when he was shown the evidence, he was asked if he had ever taken a case to a grand jury with less evidence than what we had, and he said, Oh, yeah. When asked if he would take the case to a grand jury, he answered, This is solid. There is no question. Yes, definitely. David Davenport, a retired TBI Special Agent and member of the Redhead Murders Task Force, said, Because of the similarities in all the cases and how they were dumped alongside the interstate, it was probably done by the same truck driver.

The former assistant district attorney that we've presented to believes that there's enough evidence that it is the same M-O-ing signature of the Tina former killer, and a retired Thomas Sun Detective believes there is enough information that it, once again, is the same M-O-ing signature of the Tina Farmer killer. To the students, all signs pointed to John being the killer. So all the other victims were found along travel routes just like Tina Farmer. They all had the same characteristics, such as being white, petite, and transient. All were killed when the person who killed Tina Farmer was not incarcerated. So while he was in prison, all the murders stopped. The same ligature was used on a surviving victim, the Cheatham County Jane Doe and Tracey Sue Walker. And a ligature used on the Soto County Jane Doe was just minutes away from Tina Farmer's killer's family member's house, which he visited several times per year. That was in Houston. Here's just another look at McKinney Farmer's killer's M. O. And signature. An extensive criminal record that dated back to the age of 16. He spent the better half of his younger life between 1967 and 1976 incarcerated, with no murders matching the M.

O. Happening while he was incarcerated. Then in 1976, he became a trucker. Then when the murders matching his M. O. And signature occurred, he would be out of jail until his arrest in 1985. So whenever he was in jail, no murders. Whenever he was out of jail, while he started the period. While he was out of jail, six murders and an attempted murder would take place with the same M. O. And the same signature. The first murder matching this MO would take place in 1978, the year he begins as a long haul trucker. In 1980, he would start his own trucking company under the Motor Carrier Vehicle Act, which lifted a lot of regulations on trucking. So truckers were able to be their own bosses, pretty much. There was not a lot of supervision. They were able to do their own thing. Then he would have to admit to law enforcement that he had been everywhere a victim was found because of his job as a trucker. Then the murders that fit the same M-O and signature would stop after he was arrested in March of 1985. Next to the matchbook, which was found near Elizabeth Lamont's body, and it was just a book of matches from the Skinny Rooster, which was an exotic dancing club in Houston, Texas.

I don't know if you know much about Houston, but it's pretty big, like 10,000 square miles big. However, the Skinny Rooster was located in an out-of-the-way location in a small industrial part of the city, which was less than a two-minute drive from where the suspect was staying. In the matchbook, mysteriously, it was found a 16-hour drive and were 1,000 miles away beside a dead body that matched the M-O and signature of Tina Farmer's killer, exactly. And what we hope this information will lead to and what we can get from this is for tips that can help identify further victims. The press was able to ask the girls questions. You all didn't even do this for a grade? No, this is just for fun. We come in early, usually once a week in the mornings before school, and talk about murder. What made... I mean, why? Why did you more bring this right back up? Like, five years. Like she said, we are very close in age with many of these victims, and it just resonates right back home for us because it could be. I'm sure it could be like she has a sister. It could be her sister or her mom's back in the day.

It's just really hard to think that some of these people had to live with not knowing that. Some of them had children, and they could have just left their moms left them rather than been murdered. We just want to bring closure to all the people affected by all these murders. When you look at the evidence and you look at the way these women live, many of them were transient runways, different things like that, but that didn't make them any less human, and that didn't make them any less of people. The fact that someone tried take advantage of that, and they take advantage of that, and thought that these people would not be missed, no one was going to come look for them, I think that's very selfish. That's a very evil person. I think that that person needs to, obviously, suspect is gone, passed away, so he can't pay for what he did. But these parents and these families and daughters, sisters, children, they all deserve justice, and they all deserve to know that my mom didn't run away when I was little because she didn't want me. She was taken from me. I think that that's something very important, and that there are still families, and this is still affecting people.

And also this can bring attention to future instances. Don't get in the car with a man you don't know. And then different things like that just help make people more aware that there are people out there who are equal. And that's very important to be aware and to know that it's real. A local police officer commented on their work. So I would say I don't have any questions, but I'm very appreciative. You guys are very professional. I know you're still in high school, but I was very blown away, I guess. I'd say. You all are very well put together. You know you're not. You have your knowledge. You can answer questions off the top of your head. You look very professional, and you're ready to give your PowerPoint presentation. If you all want to be in law enforcement, we'll be happy to have you. But I will say as a law enforcement officer, if you all came to me and said, Hey, we have this new information, I would be excited. I would be very happy that you all put that work in to say, Hey, this This is what I have. Can you take the time to go look?

I definitely would be very appreciative of the extra help and the extra knowledge and for you all to do what you all do as well, to work together. I think the most important thing right out is getting all of the people involved on the same page because, like Mr. Campbell said, we've been in contacts with some different agencies and stuff out of state who had no clue that this happened. And there's been new management, new people take over that don't even know about these cases, don't know what the files are. They didn't even know there was a file. I think that it's very important that we get everybody on the same page and present this information to everybody and just make sure that what's known is known. Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in a moment. In the 1980s and '90s, New York City a tough cop like Detective Louis Scarsella. Putting bad guys away. There's no feeling like it in the world. He was the guy who made sure the worst killers were brought to justice. That's one version. This guy is a piece of Derrick Hamilton was put away for murder by Detective Scarsella.

In prison, Derrick turned himself into the best jailhouse lawyer of his generation. My lawyer was my girlfriend. This is my only way to freedom. Derrick and other convicted murderers. Started a law firm behind bars. We never knew we had the same cop in the case. Scarsella. We got to show that he's a corrupt cop. They could go themselves. I'm Steve Fishman. And I'm Dax Devlin Ross. And this is The Burden. Listen to new episodes of The Burden on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive bonus content, subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. Hey, this is Dan. And this is Reid Isbell, also known as the Brothers Hunt. And we're the host of the podcast God's Country, produced by Mead Eater and iHeartPodcast. You all should check out our latest episode with our good old buddy, Luke Holmes. Yeah, I know you saw him on a Grammys performing Fast Car with Tracy Chapman. So that was really cool, man. And I feel like we just connected on that call, and then she agreed to do it. A few weeks later, she We agreed to do it.

But did you know he once ran the gokarts at Asheville Fun Depot? You can get seven minutes out there. Absolutely no bumping. Keep your hands inside of me. Wait, we can't bump? But why is there a bumper on the car? No, you can bump if you want to. You said we can't bump. Right. If you do, I'm going to kick you off. You should also definitely listen to this episode. If you like Levermush, gross. Or if you hate Levermush. There's a town in North Carolina that has a Levermush Festival. It's that popular. Why have we not been to that? I don't That sounds like a- Why am I not headlining it? Listen to God's Country on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. All that sitting and swiping, our backs hurt, our eyeballs sting. That's our bodies adapting to our technology, but we can do something about it. We saw amazing effects. I really felt like the cloud in my brain dissipated. There's no turning back from me. Make 2024 the year you put your health before your inbox and take the Body Electric challenge. Listen to Body Electric from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Murder 101. After the press conference, Mr. Campbell sat down with Riley and Marley to reflect on their work. We had a couple of days to reflect, and I guess the first question might be, how do you think you did? During the actual press conference, I did not feel super confident myself. I was nervous about how it sounded, the verbiage I was using. But then afterward, hearing the response and how they thought we sounded very professional, I felt a lot more confident myself, and then I felt pretty good about it. I agree with Raleigh. While doing it, I was a little bit nervous and didn't feel too good about it. But after hearing the praise from everybody else, I felt a lot better about everything. The girls discussed their motivations. Because I think it's important to identify these killers and find justice for these women, regardless if we're necessarily right or not. Yeah, it's not just about convicting Jerrion Leon Johnson, all of them. It's just finding justice for the girls. Mr. Campbell shared some frustrating news. I don't know if you saw it or not, but there was an article in one of the local newspapers, and they followed up with a representative from the TBI, and the quote was that there's no evidence connecting these crimes.

How do they know, though? Because it's not like they went out of their way to see if there's any DNA evidence, anything like that. I don't understand why they can sit there and say there's no evidence when they haven't even given it really much attention. They're so similar that it's insane. I don't see how there couldn't at least be something. There has to be some evidence. Because anytime we try to talk to them or make contact with them to see if we could help in any way or give them information. If there's any new information, they've shot us down. It wasn't long before the press picked up the story. New research from Tennessee high school students shows a single person could be responsible for a string of killings. New A search from a pair of Elizabeth and high school students suggests a single person was responsible. The students now believe is actually responsible for six murders and one attempted murder. In September, two students started looking into the case and those students presented their findings to the public today. Two Elizabeth and high school students are now sharing the result of their research into a string of cold case murders.

Two Elizabeth and high school students believe a serial killer was on the loose in the South in the mid '80s. This week, two students, Marley Mathena and Reilly Whitson, joined with Campbell to present the culmination of five years of investigation into the Redhead murders. Marley Mathina and Reilly Whitson explain to reporters and investigators what they found. The women were strangled with a pattern of names. They also identified more likely victims and ruled out others. Elizabeth and high school students, Wriley Woodson, Marley Mathena, and teacher Alex Campbell, say their research centers around the murder of Tina McKenny Farmer. They were able to find similarities in her killing with others around the same time period. They hoped to bring some closure to families. Back in 2018, the first group of Elizabethton high school students, under the guidance of their teacher, developed a profile of a serial killer who could be responsible. In September, more students joined in. The students presented their findings to FBI behavioral analysis and other criminal justice Justice experts, who all agreed the suspect fit the profile of the other killings. Woodson and Mathina are both juniors at Elizabethton High School. They hope to continue working on this investigation in their senior year.

It wasn't just the press that felt moved their work. Man, I was truly blown away. I knew we would talk about it a little bit, but not in-depth, all the stuff they presented. Riley's dad, Mr. Whitson, who was sitting in the press conference, shared his thoughts on the assignment with Mr. Campbell. I was so proud of him. I think digging through information, getting on the internet, digging through stuff, digging through 40-year-old documents, finding details, finding information, I think that's a skill that will help her, Marley, in life, going forward in college, especially to pour over, have tons of information and what's important in this information. I think that's something really big that will help them going forward. Mr. Whitson had a good question for Mr. Campbell. You're not getting paid extra as a stipend to do this, correct? That's correct, yeah. I was telling a guy that, and he's like, Are you kidding me? I was like, Yeah. I said, The girls go early before school. I said, Mr. Campbell comes early. They're not doing this for a letter grade or a number or a dollar amount. They're just doing it because they want to do it.

They're passionate about it. Most people are blown away by that because most teenagers, and let's be honest, most people that work don't do stuff unless they get compensated. That's just life. People don't do that. And the time you all have poured into this, and you especially, you have life, you have a wife, you've got kids, you've got a Well, you got to act like myself. I don't know if I could find the time that you put into this extra as much as we have going on. And then on top of that, to not get compensated. I'm going to pat you on the back really, really largely for that. Well, I appreciate that. Kari Schneider from the XQ Institute, the company that originally helped back the project in 2018, discussed the Everlasting Mark, A Project Like This Leaves. I think one of the most fascinating and compelling pieces of this entire project is that it just kept going. We're years now into this. The original kids that were a part of this project are long gone. They're adults. It's not just a project, right? It's when you really actually have interest and curiosity in something, you're going to do it once the bell rings, you're going to do it once the school day ends because you're really invested in it.

So I think that's just a big part of what learning can be. It can actually be something that exists outside the confines of time or classrooms or a Bell schedule or any of that. And I think this is just one example of that being true. This class taught me more than education. It was about family togetherness and most importantly, understanding the world. Students who are now adults reflect on the original project and the impact it has had on their lives. I learned the importance of advocating for those without a voice. I often find myself thinking about the woman behind the graves. They were somebody's lover, friend, or mother. That's the part that really hurts me the most. Missing for years without a trace, and no one is even looking. What does that say about humanity? The best time to make a difference is the present. Hello. Hey, Landa. This is Alex. How are you? Hello. Oh, just wonderful. Let's stop here for another quick break. In the 1980s and '90s, New York City needed a tough cop like Detective Louis Scarsiller. Putting bad guys away. There's no feeling like it in the world. He was the guy who made sure the worst killers were brought to justice.

That's one version. This guy is a piece of Derrick Hamilton was put away for murder by Detective Scarcella. In prison, Derrick turned himself into the best jailhouse lawyer of his generation. My lawyer was my girlfriend. This is my only way to freedom. Derrick and other convicted murderers. Started a law firm behind bars. We never knew we had the same cop in the case. Scarcella. We got to show that he's a corrupt cop. They could go themselves. I'm Steve Fishman. And I'm Dax Devlin Ross. And this is The Burden. Listen to new episodes of The Burden on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive bonus content, subscribe to True Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. Hey, this is Dan. And this is Reid Isbell, also known as the Brothers Hunt. And we're the host of the podcast God's Country, produced by Mead Eater and iHeart Podcast. You all should check out our latest episode with our good old buddy, Luke Holmes. Yeah, I know you saw him on a Grammys performing Fast Car with Tracy Chapman. That was really cool, man. I feel like we just connected on that call, and then she agreed to do it.

A few weeks later, she agreed to do it. But did you know he once ran the gokarts at Asheville Fun Depot. You can get seven minutes out there. Absolutely no bumping. Keep your hands inside of me. Wait, we can't bump? But why is there a bumper on the car? No, you can bump if you want to. You said we can't bump. Right. If you do, I'm going to kick you off. You should also definitely Listen to this episode. If you like Levermush, gross. Or if you hate Levermush. There's a town in North Carolina that has a Levermush Festival. It's that popular. Why have we not been to that? I don't know. That sounds like a- Why am I not headlining it? Listen to God's Country on the Our Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. All that sitting and swoping, our backs hurt, our eyeballs sting. That's our bodies adapting to our technology. But we can do something about it. We saw amazing effects. I really felt like the cloud in my brain dissipated. There's no turning back from me. Make 2024 the year you put your health before your inbox and take the Body Electric challenge.

Listen to Body Electric from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Murder 101. While Mr. Campbell received lots of positive feedback from the press conference, there was one person whose opinion mattered more than anyone's. Jerry John's surviving victim, Linda. I guess you saw some of the news stories and stuff. Yeah. I was impressed, very impressed. I couldn't believe that they were so mature and they talked so well. And I can't even talk on the phone. If somebody They took me on TV. There's no way I could speak. But they did great. Not even getting a grade for it, and coming in early. It took a lot to get me to come in to school early. It takes me a lot to get some kids just to come to school at all. For Linda, the press conference brought up painful memories of the night Jerry Johns tried to kill her. When I first saw Tina Farmer's picture, it remind me of a photo of myself. I'd say Tina and I probably were the same height and weight and had the same hair. I mean, hers was shorter than mine, but I don't know.

All those women seem to I have a lot in common. Yeah. I mean, you know what? I think I've got it bad. But then I look or I see all these people and all this is tortured. It was the longest 10 minutes of my life. I mean, it seemed like forever. But then so many have had it worse. Can I ask you a personal question? And you don't have to answer it if you don't want to, and I could be wrong, but is It seems like I can tell a big difference in you since the first time we talked, just how you're dealing with things. Do you feel there's a difference? When you first... I talked to you, I just freaking out. I couldn't breathe. The first few times. Honestly, there's one time I had to hang up because I could not breathe. And the next time, I think it was the time that you had to wait afternoon or something, and I'm like, Oh, yes, I can have more coffee before I have to be on the phone. So yeah, I've definitely calmed down, and I've prayed about it, and I was excited for you guys to do that.

It was a little overwhelming. I'm glad I didn't have to be there because it was a little more than I thought it was going to be, but it was really exciting. Anything you do to help anybody is just... I can't imagine not knowing what happened to my child. Despite connecting with her numerous times over the phone, Mr. Campbell and Linda had never met something he wanted to change. You had mentioned that you might consider maybe coming for a visit sometime this summer. Is that really something you feel like doing? Yes. Once I saw those girls, I thought, I have to meet those girls someway if it's possible. I just felt this chinship or something with them, seeing them. I don't know why, but the minute I saw them, I thought, I have to meet these girls. Mr. Campbell relay the news to Riley and Marley. I was able to speak to our surviving victim. She said that in the last few years, she really hadn't gone many places. Basically, left her town, she said. But she said, after I saw those girls, I just wanted to come meet them. So she said that she would like to maybe plan a trip down here, maybe in the next few months.

No way. To make it while. That's crazy. To make advice. How How do you feel about that? That's insane. It's going to feel surreal. Because we have not talked to her one-on-one, but we found out about as much as we could about this woman without actually meeting her. We've like, jogging her her whole life. In a creepy way where it was like her stalkers and her fan club because she is the reason he did get prosecuted. We've been her biggest fan, and then she doesn't even really... We've never met her, and it feels like she don't know who we are. She's a celebrity in our minds, I guess. To know we can meet her. That's crazy. Yeah, you guys are smiling. You're pretty excited. That's insane. You're talking over each other. That's what it means. You're excited. That's what it's about. It's about these girls. Obviously, we want as much media attention as possible and much attention to the case as possible. But if we can do justice on these girls' part and get their stories out there and make it known, I think that's the most important thing. I think we've got more work to do, and there's new stuff is going to happen.

Maybe you guys can just focus on winning the state championship for the next couple of weeks, okay? That's our hope. Take a little break from the, like I said, all the murders, and let's just go win the state championship. And then maybe after all that, maybe we'll see what's happening. And if there's some way we want to continue this, maybe in the spring or next year, I'm sure there'll be more work to do. Definitely. It seems that time might come sooner rather than later. The only question I have is is Jerry Johns could not have murdered Espey, the victim who was found in Barberville, Kentucky, because he was arrested, which was the very last victim. He was arrested for the attempted murder of Linda E. He would have been in jail. But what I know is that Jerry Johns had a brother. Shane Waters, who has been on the case since the beginning, has a theory that can't be ignored. Shane recalls his interview with an eyewitness who saw Eptie Pilgrim being abducted. He told me what the man looked like, what the truck looked like. But what's odd and interesting is that the truck is a red truck, which Jerry Johns' truck was red.

So the description is a perfect description of what Jerry Jones' truck was. However, Jerry Jones was a redhead, and Bruce said that this man had dark hair, and Jerry Jones's brother had dark hair. Shane spoke to Jerry Jones's ex-wife about the brother. When I talked to his wife, she told me that him and his brother would drive around to all these locations together. They basically were always in the truck together. They were very close. And she's like, you know what? One of the things that I don't understand is how could he do this with his brother there all the time? And so I was like, well, do you think they could have been doing this together? She's like, well, they would have to be. Maybe his brother did it to try to take the heat off of Jerry Johns, because I know that they question Jerry Johns about these women being murdered when he was arrested. However, I believe once Espey was murdered, shortly after, while he's in jail, I think that the suspicion gets off of him because of her body being found. I think that Jerry was the lead person who was doing all these things, but I think that his brother was there with him.

They were probably in it together Hey, girls. How are you all doing? Good. How are you? Not too bad. I hadn't seen you in a while. What have you all been up to? Not much. Just playing basketball. Playing basketball, yeah. Did you all win something or something the other night? We did. We won the district championship. Awesome. What's next? Region. Okay. Awesome. Well, the bell just rang. I'm getting ready to go to class. Did you all need something? I know we haven't met in a while, but I have some new information I need to share, and I think it changes everything. More on that next time. Murder 101 is executive produced by Stephanie Lidecker, Alex Campbell, Courtney Armstrong, Andrew Arnault, and me, Jeff Shane. Additional producing by Connor Powell and Gabriel Castillo. Editing by Jeff Thouard and Davie Cooperwasser. Music by Vanacore Music. Murder 101 is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is Alex Campbell, co-host of murder 101. We hope you're enjoying Season 1. We ask that if you know anything that could help police solve these cases, that you contact the appropriate agencies with any information you feel can help with their work to bring justice to these women and their families.

But we also asked that if you Well, you can help us continue to tell these stories that you reach out to us with any of the following information. Number one, if you have any personal experiences with these victims that could help us tell their stories as real people, maybe you grew up with them, worked with them, or are even related to them. If you can shed light on the investigations going back to the 1980s, then maybe you worked with the cases such as a police officer, or maybe you were a witness or even a journalist. That would also be very helpful. And finally, if you have any information on our suspect, maybe you grew up with him, you were in the military with him, incarcerated with him, or maybe involved with him through law enforcement, such as his jailer, guard, or parole officer. All those things can be helpful. We would love to hear from any of you. You can reach us at info@kt-studios. Com or message us through Instagram at kt_studios. In the '90s, New York Detective Louis Scarsella locked up the worst criminals. Putting bad guys away. There's no feeling like it. Then Jailhouse Lawyers took aim led by Derek Hamilton.

Scarsella took me to the precinct in a ride. Twenty men eventually walked free. Now, in the Burden podcast, after a decade of silence, Louis Scarsella finally tells his story, and so does Derek Hamilton. Listen to The Burden on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Dan, and this is Reid Isbell. We're the host of the podcast God's Country. Check out our latest episode with our good old buddy, Luke Holmes. Yeah, I know you saw him on Grammys performing Fast Car with Tracy Chapman. But did you know he once ran the Go Carts at Asheville Fun Depot? You can get seven minutes out there. Absolutely no bumping. Definitely listen to this episode. If you like liver moosh? Gross. If it was called Breakfast Delight, you'd be like, That sounds pretty cool. I would try that. Listen to God's Country on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. All that sitting and swaping, our backs hurt, our eyeballs sting. That's our bodies adapting to our technology, but we can do something about it. We saw amazing effects. I really felt like the cloud in my brain dissipated.

There's no turning back from me. Make 2024 year you put your health before your inbox and take the Body Electric challenge. Listen to Body Electric from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.