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This is a news laundry podcast and you're listening to and I'll have the ungrazed up Nelligan or news laundry up to half the cabinet ch'orti. Welcome to another episode of Hafter from a very cold and rainy day.


Well, it's not raining right now. It has been a maximum rain generally so far ever high in Delhi and apparently has been snowfall in several parts of the country.


And there was huge blizzards. I mean, yesterday, the kind of gusts of wind that accompanied rain were quite phenomenal in Delhi. So happy New Year, everyone. Happy New Year.


Twenty twenty one is amazing for you all in the studio with me is a remarkable high when in Japan.


Hello. Joining us on the phone line is Anand from Partner High and Low and Joshi from Chennai. Hi, Gerri.


Hi. So I have two announcements, very good headlines. One is, like I have said earlier, Haftar has gone behind the paywall. So this bit is the free is it's part of the short after, if you can listen to it and you're not a subscriber. But Iran is on the full hafta do subscribe and Patrick Oppmann is free because Hafter is not behind the paywall. So to access it, you're going to have to pay. And we have a new Annells in a project, which I shall tell you about as we get into the podcast.


But let's go straight to the headlines now.


Yes, Donald Trump supporters storm U.S. Capitol.


Four people are dead. More than 50 people have been arrested. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram have blocked Trump's accounts after his supporters stormed the Capitol building. The latest on this is that Trump has said that he's pledged a smooth transition. Meanwhile, in China, farmers have taken out a tractor march against farmers. Our reporters are right now at the scene of action covering it. So you should check out the reporting.


And right now, we are recording this on Thursday, the 7th of January at three p.m. in Delhi, battling the coronaviruses, Uki PM has called off his visit to India.


There's no call on the new guest yet.


I heard a joke about that that they should call as a foreign visitor. Rahul Gandhi.


Someone on Twitter had posted this smocked obsession. Skorton in the War has rejected comedian Manouver Farouk's BP. He cited law and order situation. And whenever Faruqi was arrested because apparently he cracked jokes on Hindu ditties and shadow. No one really knows what jokes were cracked. And according to one account in social media, there weren't any jokes on Hindu goddesses.


Yeah, it's not even clear whether this affair refers to a performance dead or are they referring to something he had cracked earlier, which is on YouTube, but because they want to keep him in custody, they're kind of using that because the BJP leader's son, who created a fracas that may look like an idiot if nothing was happening, and this is the reports on such usually reports on these things like comedian arrested for derogatory remarks of irritating to read, because in most cases, newspapers never tell you what the derogatory remarks.


It's just like arrested for derogatory remarks. You left wondering what the remark was anyway. The Supreme Court is going to hear pleas against anticonvulsant law and they've issued a notice to the U.S. government. India has authorized the emergency use of two covid-19 vaccines developed by AstraZeneca, an Oxford University, and by our very own Bidart Biotech. There's quite a bit of controversy over the biotech vaccine, which we should discuss.


Hmm. According to a report into shut downs in 2020 cost India two point eight billion dollars.


Yes. And I just like to say one bit of information on this. I actually you know, there are so many Internet shutdown conferences that have taken place in the last two, three years, not in the last year, but before that for about three or four years. And I have attended at least a dozen. So these are asking these to be panelists from big tech companies to be panelists from the IG and Sakari. And I always, because I used to find this earlier, there was so much tax and then there's GST that how do you pay?


Because you have to pay online. So if you're running, if you are a intrapreneur, a businessman in a place where the Internet shut down for six months, how do you pay? Because if you don't pay, then you're penalized. And I have not yet got an answer. So if anybody runs a business from a place that has had Internet shutdowns, I really want to know how do you guys pay a great deal before that?


How how did you pay your service tax? And that yumminess of the two percent says, what was that water treatment process or whatever? How did you guys do it? Because it's I can't imagine how you can run a business if you don't haven't done it in India.


No Indian economy to contract by nine point six percent in 2020 21, predicts Wallbank. Netiv Modi's younger sister and her husband have opted for Biden and they have said they will testify against him in the cases.


Two cases filed by then used against him because they are simple.


But you can carry on at just provide the ambience to get supreme. Plus all clear. It's a two to one verdict, says no jury. I think there's some caveat to it, right?


Yes. Yes. Give us some details as we discuss this, OK? UK judge blocks Assange's extradition to the US citing mental health. He said that he's under the extreme risk of U.S. harm. All districts in Canada have been put on high alert due to bird flu speculations of Jack Ma missing. All right. Because the business tycoon has not been seen in public for weeks.


In fact, he missed the grand finale of a reality show that is actually his show.


But apparently his and network or whatever it's called has and cooperation has put out a statement saying that he's fine because in the middle of some Alibaba.


Yeah, but but the but the mother companies and Alibaba.


And there was speculation because at least some of some news sites had reported that he's under supervision. He has agreed to be under supervision by the Chinese authorities, but there is no confirmation of that either.


But an official statement has been put out that he's OK, he's just very busy or indisposed, that I couldn't make it for that particular recording. And just one moment regarding the earlier headline, The High Alert, but also in certain parts of, I think, a gorilla, they have culled almost like ten or twelve thousand ducks because they learned about the flu. Yeah, well, and I just thought also about 50 fiocruz die the images of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


I mean, Jan, you are the maximum migratory migratory bird, so. Yeah, that's it's offer supports.


Those of you thought 20, 21 will be the chillier weather you start with. But we know. So yeah.


You just sing local badgering the leaders of Muslim shopkeepers selling shoes with tax written on its soil and has fallen in bad weather news. We should just have a column in news from other so yuppy magical. I actually I absolutely takes it to the primitive times.


Now, a orderly court has said that there's reasonable ground and prima facie evidence that shows Khalid Omar Khalid, the new student and the suspended OPCON Slatyer Hussein conspired during the 90 day riots. Woman Khalid has maintained that this is a media trial against him, but it's significant that the court has said there's, you know, good enough evidence to continue with this case.


And there's one more headline of which is the Karnataka High Court has rejected us, the chief minister, VCAT robust petition to drop the case against him. And they also asked him to pay twenty five thousand rupees. So this is actually about a case, I think, from 2015, if I'm not wrong. I mean, I'm not sure. But I mean, it's come up in several times. I think it maybe came to this court 2015. But now the opposition asking for his resignation since this corruption case against him has not been dismissed by the courts.


I think it was in 2013 or 2014 that was that started the whole thing. Right.


So before we start off with the biggest reality show that kept me awake late last night, that's a tool we are we are both vigilant and easy today.


And so we I go to sleep early together with the Dorridge you can follow.


I got up at six, six, six to watch the video. And then I started watching and watching till 2:00 local and started for photographers.


So much of viewing of American capital is not good for your brain, but we have a new Nelsan I project up to contribute to it.


It's basically we cannot reveal who it's about because that would alert a lot of people. It is about basically the whole Godman. So we are going to be featuring, you know, maybe a few of them and, you know, not just under.


So, I mean, who was this guardian who wielded power? Godman have been a part of the Indian power politics for a long time. So we are just looking at the business deals that businesses, the revenue models, the yogic science and the spectacular rise of a few of them in the last few years. So as we go forward, we will reveal who is it but a senior project like this, we can't give you all the details. So if you do consider journalism credible, do contribute to this nelson-carr project.


We are going to be putting to reporters to investigate the spectacular rise of a Godman who you may or may not have faith in.


And it's all about faith, but it is going to be a straight up sort of investigation without any speculation like romancer specialising. So do contribute to that. So I had the TV on to CNN was playing live. The speeches are coming now. CNN did not come to this one. Speech dumps full speech, which was apparently an insane speech.


But what I want to know is I haven't watched the speech. How rousing was it or could it have just gotten such a spontaneous crowd out to just do what they did? I'm just surprised that it was according to. Hurt him in much more, according to CNN. I mean, most of the supporters that come from outside and they were they were living in expensive hotels, OK, and they had gathered much, much earlier. Yes.


In fact, it was like it was like a rock concert. There was loud music, some USA song or literature, that plane.


But an Indian flag was. Yeah, there was one some Indian dude was there actually are these this is a transporter and you will come to that also.


But so basically what happened was Trump made a speech. It was a long, rambling speech, but the things that stood out were when he said the media are enemies of the people, that the election has been stolen.


It is a solemn duty to reclaim the country and the Republicans because at that time, the Laurentiu endorsement got the job back at them. But obviously, when the Mike Pence officially says counts the so he says Pennsylvania Avenue along Pennsylvania Avenue, all of it.


So are we going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue? And that's a week Republicans and, you know, the week ones, they need like some support. You know, there's some strong ones. They don't they don't need us, but the weak ones need us. So we have to make them bold. Be strong. Go that, make them bold. Now, what the fuck. And fight. You've got to be strong and you got to fight.


So in my view, if it was the Indian judicial system where Hirschmann, they're saying that we will not raise our hands, a peaceful overcorrecting.


The same can lead to sedition, as we say.


So Trump is already. In fact, CNN has already pronounced Section 25, invoked.


It was a ridiculous speech. And of course, then we saw what played out.


And my only thing is that there are still people who are saying whatever the farmers protest, I think if if there's anybody who's still doing the all sides the same on Codelco, that person is incapable of having a conversation around it because then I mean, it's like trying to explain color to a blind person.


I mean, I'm not I mean, then clearly you are so blind that you wouldn't want to see anything. You've picked a team Modi saying that they should be a peaceful transition of power. What is the equivalent of this being a case of interfering with the country's internal affairs? You know, when foreign countries like Justin Trudeau comments on how someone is handling Indian democracy or protests, does Modi's tweet wander into that zone? Do you think one should remain quiet?


Like Boris Johnson tweeted, everybody tweeted, Should Modi have kept quiet about it?


See, there is a realist school of international politics. You need to have the world view of the country. So there will be always an element of hypocrisy in it that we don't comment on our internal affairs. Now, this situation with international affairs and the country's prerogative to comment on something of international interest in any other country is very weakly defined and people may deny it, but only thing that drives it is national interest. All the rest is just humbug that the concern for this and that you people need to have a register of the foreign policy outlook of a country on different issues.


And this is what India thinks. Oh, India may not like it when other countries have similar comments to make about internal internal affairs in India. Now, this is some kind of inevitability in international affairs. So taking a very moral high ground that you didn't do that? I did that.


That that is all this where the mute when the capital was being stormed and the cops are standing and some of them are obviously scared because of the goons out there and they ran backwards. So they included I think Chicago told us that they know the police of NSB and to some inspectors can take care of these guys that basically handed the police over and they'll take care of this mob. They don't do this.


So, my God, I saw several such by journalists, auditorily police. I just found that so stupid. And, you know, this is one of those things that also you're saying I read Hamzeh seeking re-election. It's a lot then, you know, this very difficult type of chest thumping.


I find it is not the same thing. I mean, I don't know.


I don't think elections in India rigged in the sense of the EVM is fixed. But if anyone was to convince me that the election commission or election commissions, especially the ones in the last few years, have behaved in extremely responsible and bipartisan or nonpartisan fashion, it would be a huge task. And that would be trying to convince someone that Yorgi is a very secular person who also respects Muslims.


Now, you may believe that in your heart of hearts, but it would be very hard to convince anyone of that. So this very and this is a very easy habit. Because you're half joking, but you have serious look at the context. It's a majority Riham white man mob in India that would be a Hindu mob and please stand and watch. And they have stood and watched it riots Hindus ever since.


I mean, what's the punch line?


What's the context? What's the setup line if it's not a joke? Are you dumb?


Also, I just want to add that this is, like I said, was a majority Indian wrightman mob. It was black people supposed stormed or whatever black lives matter.


Police would not have stood like they would have been shot.


Looking for CNN, I had done a study on the role of the police. So they saw the entire mob. You climbed up the stairs. So they the focus of the camera was on the policeman. What are they doing? So the police looked quite inert at that. OK. I mean, they were not doing anything as if they are waiting for some orders.


But with respect to what Manisha was saying and how in India it would have been a Hindu mob, the mob that we saw in the capital today, that is absolutely right. And that's the kind of mob that we have seen in India. We saw it in Delhi. And I think Indians in general are smug. Like this is one of those times for them to be very smug and say, oh, my God, look, see what's happening over there would never happen here.


But I think Indians have far more to worry about in India. So I don't think you can compare the two.


I think in India such a thing. If a demagogue like Trump was to take a and it would reach next level and I think no one would have been able to control it. I think it'd be a complete frenzy.


Yeah. So Julian Assange, everyone knows. He knows he founded WikiLeaks, which has published a lot of material from a wide range of sources. So it's through WikiLeaks that we found out a lot about America's war crimes in Iraq, about Guantanamo Bay and so many other things. So the US government, I think, had launched an investigation into this and he was convicted, I think, under the Espionage Act. So that's when he fled to the UK.


Then there were also some rape, sexual assault allegations in Sweden. And when he ran to the UK, he then sort of he took refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy. And the US has been trying for years now to get him back so he can face trial under the Espionage Act. So, yes, he would be tried for treason. So what happened yesterday is that the judge said that he would not be extradited to the US, she said, because over there he'd be put in solitary confinement and that would be very bad for his mental health and drive him to suicide.


The judge also said that she could not give him bail because he still has incentive to abscond. So while the extradition, the not being extradited thing is a cause for celebration, his lawyers and activists are still quite upset because what they want at the end is for the case against him to be dropped.


One is expected of the journalists to speak up for asylum. Some do, some don't. Some have a new ones.


And I've seen I actually as far as whistleblowers are concerned, I think there is something to be said for the protection and they should not be tried for sedition. But what I understand is the allegation against him isn't just about publishing stuff. It is about hacking into a system to get data. Is that right?


Jishu that, but also the fact that he published a whole lot of data, which revealed a lot of sources and a lot of sources of confidential information, and these were disclosures that were made on the condition of anonymity. So that made these sources vulnerable to public scrutiny when this is something they specifically chose not to do. So this was another major problem.


So I don't think it's an especially the hacking, but it is not a black and white issue.


It's like it's like, well, you know, Assange may not be a swami, but the case against him that the police took, clearly they were leveraging their power over him, using a case to be spiteful about his journalism. But that particular case was not a journalistic case. That was a completely different case. So this hacking is not really about journalism, is it?


Suppose we were to hack into a system to get data and get caught doing it.


Can we say journalism should protect us also like some of the things? Yeah, exactly. Like war crimes. There's also that you have to judge public interest in what he put out. The stuff on war crimes probably would have never come out any other way. And this is probably the only way to do it.


And this was stuff that needed to become people needed to know what was happening. But maybe some of the diplomatic cables about spying and all that, I mean all countries by everyone knows everyone snooping, whatever, and maybe there was some information. So I don't know the whole story of WikiLeaks like what you publish. But the beginning the initial challenge that he got was from Chelsea Manning was an officer with the Navy. Right. Who decided to give him those diplomatic cables and leaks.


That is fair game. It was someone within the system reaching out to us and saying that you needed to be out. Now, that wasn't did hack and that person was also in jail and Obama being the hero, that he was also an important hood.


I mean, she was pardoned by Obama and much, much more if a lot of pressure. But she. She she was in a jail for a long time and only after a lot of pressure that she was, but he got several things. I mean, just hacking.


He got several things from the sources and and only with the Official Secrets Act was imposed against him.


So to me, in such cases where you're using covert means, whether it's a hidden camera or you're recording surreptitiously or audio tapes, you record conversations or what he did, he essentially collaborated with someone to hack into the system. I think to me, I look at the end result to know whether it's justified or not. How big is the public interest? Yeah, so war crimes to me is very big. Supples is a paedophile racket with that or no high profile names.


And it is something that could have only come out to hacking someone's email or phone or recording someone.


So I think it's it's not journalism, it's not classical journalism. But I'd say, I mean, to get the word out sometimes to get dirty.


And I would I would, especially when we are not so transparent. I mean, sure, the truth must come out.


I think that's the thing that I'd like. So Trump and Mike Pompeo and all said that Assange is not a journalist, therefore he deserves no protection. And so this is something that a lot of people are brought up saying that he's not a journalist, he's just the sort of activist fraud. But in the Committee to Protect Journalists has chosen not to list Assange as a journalist. They're saying he's not a journalist, he's been a source. And WikiLeaks is not a news outlet with an editorial process.


But the fact that his prosecution would still be a threat to journalists who are engaging in investigation, investigative journalism or whistleblowers. So I think it's OK whether whether or not you choose to label him as a journalist. That's yeah.


I mean, I think yeah, he is a bit of a bandit, like I said, maybe like a Robin Hood ish doing it. Yeah. Yeah.


So on Monday, Prime Minister Modi announced that we are going to start the world's largest vaccination drive to vaccines have been approved. One is by AstraZeneca. As we know, vaccine sars-cov-2 shield and vaccine is the other one, which is being developed by Bharat Biotech. And this was really played up in the news. Both announcements came together and this was played up, as you know, we have finally, ah, admitted, but we have a DC vaccine and that is the greatest of all.


Now, the problem was that the vaccine vaccine hasn't we don't have data from the phase three yet and the trials are still ongoing with some 22000 people who participated in the trial.


Then there's no data made public, even from the trial of an incredible one and trial two.


But at least there's data with no there's no data made public. They may have even when they don't have data.


Why? Because the scientists never speak a language that the efficacy is proven. They say the efficacy is 80 percent. They always quantify.


So they so they don't have to consolidate. Don't this test reconsolidated?


Just see even the emergency listing of a vaccine follows a very rigorous assessment of the clinical trials. So what is happening in the mice are frog leaping over once very vital up clinical trials to say that by authorizing it for emergency use and they did this with Ebola and which they, I think, approved a vaccine for more than two years. But that was also because there weren't any other candidate available. But which is not the case. That's true.


And regardless of what you are, think as this is what I think government had said in the wild. I interviewed Karan Thapar. The rules do not permit authorizing the use of a vaccine without completing the Phase three trial. Like this is science. This is not this is not a matter of speculation or debate. You know, this is literally how science works and especially with vaccines. When you are administering to a large percentage of the population, these are steps that you have to follow you.


You know, like we were discussing that maybe there is reason to be very optimistic about how things have proceeded with this vaccine.


But you've completely ruined it by, you know, making personal trust.


Not only talks of efficacy, please come to New Zealand dot com, check all the wonderful reports, a podcast of radio shows I'd pay to keep news free because when the public pays, the public is served. I can't stress this enough. And how important this is, all of you listening in the short afternoon subscribe so you can listen to the entire half the we will see you again next week with the Thurtell that subscribe to keep news free, because when the public pays, the public is served and advertisers pay are served.


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