Hi, everyone. It's Kelsey McKinnie. And Alex Su-Jong-Lawson from Normal Gossip, the podcast where we anonymize real gossip and tell it back to you.

And I'm Caitlin pierce from Hang Up, a reality dating show.

With no rings attached. We're here together now because our shows are part of Radiotopia from PRX. But the three of us, we go way back. Oh, yeah.

So.

Alex and I.

Used to work together, and I actually produced the pilot of Normal Gossip when it was just a twinkle.

In her mother's eye. Cbt. We love it. So it's no surprise that we ended up together in the same place making fun, silly little shows that we love. Radiotopia supports us in making the exact shows we want to make on our own terms. And that's why we're here, because we need you to support Radiotopia so we can keep making the episodes you can't wait to listen to. To do that, visit radiotopia. Fm/donate.

And when you donate, you'll get a link to a special mix tape. We put all our favorite songs together in a.

Playlist just for you. Again, that's radiotopia. Fm/donate. Thank you so much for your support. Hi, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney. In each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I'm so excited to have with me today, Jasmine Ellis. Jasmine is a stand-up comedian, entertainment journalist, and podcast host from Arlington, Texas. She tours colleges and clubs nationally and has been featured at over a dozen of the top comedy festivals, including Moontower. Her debut comedy album, Trash Baby, went number one on iTunes, and Jasmine's comedy special, Nobody's Queen, was awarded NPR's Bullseye Comedythe album of the year. Jasmine, welcome.

Hi. I'm so excited to be here.

Thank you. I'm so excited you're here. We did this show together in Austin, and it feels like a nice little reunion.

It does. Austin was so much fun and the energy in the room, the people who are fans of you and Alex and what you all do, it was so great to be a part of that. I was so happy. It was so fun.

Yeah, we had such a good time in Austin, but there were not a ton of people there. So most of the listeners who listen to this podcast have no idea who you are. This is their first time meeting you. I'm so excited to introduce you to them. What do you want them to know about you?

I want them to know that I'm your new favorite comedian. You don't know that yet. You haven't watched me, but I am. You're going to follow me. You're going to fall in love with me. My style of comedy is stream of consciousness. So I get two types of feedback. The positive version is it doesn't even feel like somebody telling jokes. It's just like a conversation with your best friend.

I don't know what's the negative version.

The one that comes from Reditors who are 13 is, It's just some lady talking. Look, she's not even telling jokes. I realized the other day that they're saying the exact same thing. That means I know who I am. And I.

Love that. Yeah, it's just a tone difference. Yeah, we do really get the same feedback. It's like, These are just some ladies talking, and it's like, Mm-hmm?

Mm-hmm? Yeah, it's.

Like, What? You hate ladies talking? You hate women? Yeah. We're happy you're here. You're on the road right now. Is it harder or easier to come by gossip when you are touring?

Oh, easy as hell, especially... Oh, my God. I'm just in the lobby waiting for my DoorDash order, which was completely incorrect.

Great. Perfect.

Okay, so this is what I get because in an effort to not get murdered, I changed my name on DoorDash to a man name. Okay. Because sometimes I'm in really small towns and they're going to see Jasmine E. I know I'm the comedian, Jasmine Ellis. And just in case, I always change it to a male name. I had a DoorDasher that was supposed to be a woman. But then some guy dropped my stuff off and I was like, Oh, my God, we're both trying not to get murdered. Because I answered the question. It was a woman's voice and the woman was like, My husband's in the lobby with your stuff. I was like, Thanks, Mary. Mary was like, Okay. What? Just as I'm grabbing my food, I just overhear at the front desk, girl, and she goes, Girl, I have some tea for you. The way my body just froze. It had like, no... And then I realized I'd been standing there for a full minute and I had no reason to be standing there like my food was getting cold. And I was like, This is real conspicuous. But it's... Oh, my God, small town T is everywhere.

After shows, people come up to me. They tell me funny stories that are just gossip about their lies. It's everywhere around you.

I do feel like it helps because you're coming in and then leaving very quickly. So it's like, You're just going to leave. You'll leave with this gossip. It's fine. Do you want to hear the gossip that I have?

Absolutely.

I think that you're really going to like it. When we were going through the inbox, I was like, Let's have this one for Jasmine as a little treat.

Bespoke gossip just for me.

Bespoke gossip just for you.

I'm so happy.

Our friend of a friend today, we're going to call her Ciaran. One day Ciaran's at her house, she gets a text from her friend, and her friend is like, Hey, I sent you something in the mail. So just heads up. Make sure it doesn't get stolen off your porch. Pay attention. Ciaran's like, Okay, I'm on meetings all day. A little bit annoying. Could have given me a heads up before this, but sure. So when the UPS truck pulls up, she runs down there to get it. She comes back upstairs, she opens it, and inside is this big velvet purple box. It's like a shoebox sites. And she opens it up and it has a fancy eye mask and fancy little incense and little candle and all these little gadgets and little things in there. Very beautiful. And on the top of the inside of the box that she flipped up, it is embroidered and it says, Will you be my bridesmaid?

How.

Do you feel about this?

I think it's adorable. I love those.

You love bridesmaid's culture?

I do. Although I do wonder if now that we've gotten into bridesmaid gifts, it's turned a little coercive. Like, maybe you should ask first and then send a thank you for being my bride's maid.

I like that. I think that's a nice order. Ciaran is really excited to get this because the bride, Mila, is her friend from high school. And Mila is the friend that's always sending a birthday gift that responds to every single one of your Instagram stories that remembers some story you told her five years ago.

I have a Mary who's just like that. I love those friends.

She's like the girl who everyone thinks is her best friend, which is why she has 25 bridesmaids.

This girl is from the south. Where is she from?

Does it change your opinion of being in this wedding if you know that there are 24 other bridesmaids? You know.

What the funny thing is? I would be so down because there's so many bridesmaids. That's so little responsibility. What does anyone want you to do? I mean, the only thing I can think is how do you have a wedding big enough to justify 25 bridesmaids?

You're right, though, because the worst part of being a bridesmaid is that it is essentially a part-time job.

Yeah. So 25 of us is like, the more of you who are, the less it is, the less a big deal it is if someone can't make something. When you're one-fourth of a bridal party and you miss the bridal shower, it's noticeable. Nobody gives a damn. You are like thirds, you know what I mean? I would love to be someone's twenty-fourth best friend. As busy as I am, I'd love to be the part of a big team.

Ciaran is on your page. She's like, 25 people is a lot of people, but hopefully this means that I won't have to do very much. And she's also like, Mila is rich. So this will be a fun wedding and a fun experience.

This.

Is the wedding that has three full days of festivities.

Love that.

Lots of events, lots of stuff going on. So Ciaran's like, Yes, of course, I would love to be your bridesmaid. Would you like to guess what the first problem we might encounter here? It will be?

Does she require a physical change to Ciaran's appearance?

That's a great guess. No. The first problem here is that Ciaran is added to a WhatsApp group.

Oh, no. No, no, no.

Why? You decide on a point person and you have them send you one weekly email at most with highlighted points of what you need an answer to. If nothing in the email requires answers, the email never yet to be sent. If you need sizes, preferences on time, sure. But think to yourself, if there's nothing you need a response to, then there's no reason to send a message in the first place. Okay, I'm already out.

This group chat is made by the maid of Honor, Natasha. Oh, Natasha. Natasha is Mila's future sister-in-law.

Oh, no, they can't be that close. No, I know she wants to get in good with the other family, but the future and sister-in-law is never... There's no way you're that close. There's no way. There's no way. Oh, she chose her over one of her best friends or her siblings. That's a mistake.

And Natasha has like a real hey, ladies vibe in this group chat. It's like, Hey, ladies, so happy we're all here. Can't wait to celebrate Mila. Da da da da. This WhatsApp message is just like blinking all the time. Like here in this is like a light, just 24/7.

No, I would have immediately sent a message like, Hi, guys, I'm so sorry with my job. I'm not able to take on any more mass communication, but please email me anything that requires a response and I'll get back to you within 24 hours. And then you leave the group. Yes. Boundaries.

I love that you're like, The boundary here is I can't be in this group. I think that that's correct and good. This group is just like, it's memes. It's all sorts of bullshit. Finally, they start talking about the bachelorette party. And Ciaran's like, Okay, this is relevant to me. They start discussing like, Where do we want to go? People are throwing out little options, right? They're like, Do we want to go to Nashville? Do we want to go to Los Angeles? Do we want to go abroad?

Never go to Los Angeles. It's not a bachelorette town.

They decide that they are going to go to a city that we will not name in Western Europe. It's on the water. It's very beautiful. Old little cobbled streets.

These are American women, right? Yes. I'm not a fan of bachelorettes that require a passport. I think it's a lot to ask people. I get it, though, but people's budgets don't be the same. But you know what? Twenty-five of you, I don't know, getting 25 bitches through customs, shit can go wrong. That's a lot. Go off.

Ciaran is like, This is expensive. This is difficult to get to. This is now like a whole thing. But she's like, I'm not going to say anything. This is the hell I signed up for. I love my new home in hell. Natasha is in charge. She's making all these plans. She's sending spreadsheets, sending listings for the house they're going to stay in, sending the dates for people to choose from. So Ciaran buys her ticket. Once she has bought her ticket, she mutes the group text. And she starts treating this group text as her nightly entertainment, where at the end of the work day, she will sit down and scroll the group text and then be like, That's enough. I'm done here.

That's responsible. That's a responsible way to handle that.

Every day she picks up her phone and it's like 25, 26, 27 messages minimum.

Especially when someone has an Android. And so it's like so and so hard and... Oh, my God.

One day, about a month before the trip, she's like, Okay, I'm done with work. It's time for my nightly entertainment reading this group thread. And she picks up her phone and it has one message. And she's like, That's really weird. Very strange that there would only be one message in this group. She clicks in and the message is from Mila. And it says, and I quote, Hey, Besties, wedding is off. I don't want to talk about it.

Wedding is off. I don't want to talk about it. Well, what are you going to do?

What are you going to do? That's my question for you. How do you respond to this?

I guess you ask them... This is what I would do? Yes. I would reach out to Mila individually and we were like, Hey, do you want everyone but Natasha to go on a vacation with you to heal and get some dick water side in Europe?

Because.

That's the plan to me. Obviously, you don't want your ex-fiancé's sister there, but the rest of us, we bought a ticket.

I love this plan.

That's what I would do. Let's heal.

Ciaran, let's heal. Let's use my airplane ticket to Europe, please.

Yes.

Ciaran's like, she knows that this is the couple that has one big blow-up fight a year. So she's like, Okay, do I take this seriously or not? Is her first question. She's like, Is it April first? It is not April first. So she's like, Okay, I don't think this is a joke. She goes to Instagram and the fiancé has been scrubbed off of Mila's Instagram. Audio medium, they can't see your eyes.

Okay. Yeah, I'm shocked. My eyes bugged out and I just buckled in for more.

Ciaran decides Okay, Mila is my friend. I care about Mila. She doesn't want to talk about it. But I'm going to text her on the side, a straight text to Mila that just says, I'm here if you need me. Hope you're okay.

Yep, there you go.

She hears nothing back for four days.

I would have pulled up on Mila. I would have gone to her house.

Yeah, I would have to. After four days, she receives a text from Mila directly to her that says, Hey, girly! Exclamation point. So weird, but the wedding is back on.

I'm irritated. My nostril's flared. I'm going to describe my facial expressions now.

Ciaran is like, What? Why are all these things happening via text? One. Two, why did you tell us the wedding was off if it wasn't like, Absolutely, we canceled the deposit off.

That's crazy.

But she's like... She's texting like, Do you want to talk about it? And Mila's like, No, everything's fine. Ciaran goes to Mila's Instagram and the fiancé has returned to the feed.

This is crazy. Expression of confusion.

Yeah. She's like, Mila, do you want to go out for drinks? What if we went out for drinks? And Mila is like, Oh, my God. Yeah, I'd love to go out for drinks. So they go out for drinks and Ciaran's trying to push, trying to be gentle, but be like, What happened?

Yes, I deserve an answer at this point.

Yeah. And Mila is like, Oh, we just got into a really big fight, but we worked it out. It's okay. And Caren cannot get anything else out of her.

That's crazy. I'd be so irritated. No.

Yeah, she goes on that night after their drinks and she's super irritated. The next day she gets a text from Mila and it's like, Hey, babe. I'm about to text the group and tell everyone that the wedding is back on. But Natasha and I have had a bit of a falling out, so she's not going to be the maid of honor anymore, obviously. You and I have such a long history and I admire you so much and you were so kind to me at our drinks the other night. I would love to have you stand next to me as my maid of honor, if you're willing.

That is... I mean, they're really close, right?

Yes.

Okay. If this is one of my closest friends and I expect it to be maid of honor instead of her sister, then I rep. It depends on the relationship. If I'm like, That's a lot to ask.

I think an important clarification, though, is that they're like high school friends.

Okay, so they know each other. Okay. I would ask to be part of a made of honor committee because it's like if you have 24 best friends, then realistically, four of us are your closest friend. If you really like-I don't know.

Well, statistically. You have a basketball team as a best friend.

Yeah, I would say about fifth of the... You know what I mean? Because the average bridal party size is about five to eight. And you pick one bridesmaid in that scenario. So how about three to four Made of honors?

I love this plan. Ciaran, though, is flattered. She's like, Oh, it's really nice that she wants me to be the maid of honor, and I know she's having a really hard time. And so she's like, Yes. And Mila's like, Great. I'll tell everybody that the wedding is back on. I'm going to text the group now. Mila texted the group and it's like, So sorry for the confusion. Hope nobody had a hard time. The wedding is back on. I'm super happy. Thank you all so much. Da da da. Everyone in this group text is like, Yay, Yay, Yay. They're sending hearts. They're sending gifts. They're all very happy. After that, Mila texts Ciaran and is like, Hey, can you text the group message and just remind them about the bachelorette trip and that they need to be looking forward to that. This will be the first text since all of those yay messages. How do you want to handle this? You're the maid of honor now.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to nicely tell her that she needs to give them an explanation and an apology because people might have gotten their money back. If you said, Weddings off, my very first thought is, let me get $5,000 back or however much I spent on this.

You know what I mean?

Yeah. Honestly, I would say that it's inappropriate to still have the... I don't know how much time has passed between these interactions, but I would try. If I was the bride, I would try to maybe plan something a little bit more localized. You know what I mean? Yeah, just rent a mansion and have a sleepover and thank everyone for their time because I don't know, it's a lot to ask people to pay for a fancy trip and then cancel it.

I think that you're assuming, though, that these are normal people. And if they were those people, we would not have this story. So that is absolutely not what's going to happen here. What happens here is that Ciaran is like, okay, in her brain, she's like, I'm happy to coordinate all of this, but I don't have any of the information. Natasha has all of the information. So she has to text Natasha and be like, Natasha, can you give me access to all the Google Docs.

Even though the bride had a falling out with Natasha? Yes. Yikes.

And Natasha is like, Sure, period.

Okay.

But she does give her access, so that's great. Mature. Ciaran's like, Okay. She texted the group text. She's like, Basically, I'm in charge now. I am the captain now. We will miss Natasha coordinating plans to go to Western Europe. Can't wait to see you all. Let's coordinate when everyone's arriving. And everyone is like, what? What happened to Natasha? Ciaran's like, see you soon.

Oh, my gosh.

Are you ready to go on this weekend bachelorette trip to Europe?

No, I already got my money back and I left. If I'm bachelor at 21, 22, 23, you won't miss me. We're good.

You're not, though. You're Kieran.

Oh, I'm Ciaran. I'm ready to go. That's my girl. Hi, I'm author, Lindy West, and I'm democracy.

Policy expert, Megan Hatcher-Mays. We're real-life best friends, and we're here to tell you about our new podcast, Text Me Back. Every week.

We're going.

To dig into important news: news about politics, news about animals, of course, news about our lives.

And maybe try to make you laugh even when the.

World gets you down. Text Me Back.

Is a production of KOW.

Seattle's NPR news station. New episodes come out every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone is flying to Europe in clumps. Ciaran is flying with Mila, and their flight lands in Europe like 20 minutes before the flight of one of these clumps. We will call one of these clumps the Book Club clump because they all know Mila from Book Club.

Okay.

So Ciaran and Mila wait at the airport. She's like, Okay, we're going to get the five girls from Book Club, and then we're all going to get into a giant car and we'll drive to our rental house. It'll be great. They're waiting at baggage claim, waiting for the girlies. They get through customs. They're walking up. But Ciaran is counting and she's like, There's six girls in this group, not five. That's weird. So she's meeting them. She's like, Hello? One of them, younger than everyone else, is like, Hi, I'm Natasha. It's so nice to meet you.

What?

Natasha.

Still goes?

Natasha is apparently still going. She's here.

Okay.

What do you want to do?

Act like I don't care. Whatever. I mean, if she's still married to this man, then that's still his sister.

So.

Whatever falling out they had, they have to get over it because they're going to spend the rest of their lives together. So this is the beginning. Let's bridge the gap.

Ciaran is like, I'm fine with her being here, obviously, but I wish Mila had told me.

Yeah.

So she pulls Mila aside and is like, Hey, why is Natasha here? And Mila is like, She's his sister. And Ciaran's like, I've got that part, but why didn't you tell anyone that she was still coming? And Mila's like, Of course, she's still coming. She's a sister. Ciaran's like, Okay, sure.

Meline- It's weird, dude.

They all go get in this van and it's tight because there are eight of them. They drive to the rental house and no rental house in the world is big enough for 25 people unless you are renting a castle.

Yeah.

So the way that they have planned to do this, this is one of those houses that's made for a ton of people to stay in it. So there's two or three beds in every room. There are some bunk beds, whatever. What they've decided to do is that everyone will sleep in a room based on how they know Mila. Okay. Mila gets her own room because it's her special weekend. Kieran and Natasha are both sleeping on couch beds in common rooms.

Because.

They are not part of a group. Each group that arrives has their own little brand, their own little way of behaving. The Book Club Girls are here with us. They have immediately opened wine.

Love them.

They're talking about dates. They're talking about apps. They're talking about everything. The next group to arrive is the sorority sisters.

I knew she was a sorority. I was like, That's the only way to excuse how high this number... This number got fast. Big, fast.

Yes.

So it's a pledge class. There's 10 of them.

There's a bunch of them. Yeah, they show up. They're bubbly. They all look incredible, despite having just been on a giant flight across the ocean. They all have 16 luggage with them. The next group to arrive are the jocks. Mila played tennis in college, and so all of these tennis girls are here now. The jocks are not chatty. They show up, they put their weird duffel bags in their room and a soccer ball emerges from somewhere.

The.

Last group to arrive are the doctors. Mila is a doctor. So these are people who work with her being a doctor. They are the last to arrive and they are plastered from the time they get there.

I love this. What an eclectic mix.

Ciaran is like, I have so much to do. I need to get everyone ready. We have stuff to do today. It's our first day here. And she's also like, This is weird because all of these groups don't know each other. I don't know any of them. I'm like a little on the out. So everybody gets ready, they walk around, they see some sights, they go out to dinner, they're seated at one of those giant long tables with candles. Everyone's talking. They get two glasses of wine in them. Everyone's trauma dumping. The sorority girls are talking about their love lives. The jocks are talking about their lost dreams. The doctors are talking about hating their jobs. The book club is talking about how they all feel alone. Natasha is saying nothing. Ciaran is saying nothing. Mila is trying to help everyone solve every problem. That's wonderful. Because this is the friend she is. So there are 25 people here who all have an issue. And she's like, Okay, but what have you did this? Have you considered like this? I bet.

You none of these people really know Mila.

She's holding everyone's hand.

That's amazing.

Finally, after hours of this, someone is like, Mila, stop it. This is your bachelorette. You're supposed to be doing tequila shots. Let's stop doing group therapy. Stop trying to help everyone. Have fun. And Mila is like, But I love all of you. I want to help. Ciaran's like, You can help everyone later. And everyone is like, Wow, it's so nice that Mila wants to help us. So now everyone is talking about how much they love Mila. Everyone is crying. Mila's crying. A good.

Bachelorette should involve a little crying. Like a little.

A little bit.

Yeah. My older sister gave this beautiful toast at her at her bachelorette party about how much she loved all of us and how she never thought she was going to get married. And it was great. At my bachelorette party, I got punched in the head and I said... Real quick. Really quick. Sixth street, bar, Louis. This dude was fist bumping and he just punched the back of my head. And he was instantly so fucking sorry. And my eyes just watered like crazy because a grown man punched me in the head. And it was just... And my ears were ringing and it was horrible. But honestly, I deserved it because moments earlier, this girl tried to cut the line. And I said, Get the fuck back, Velma. Because I thought she was dressed as Velma from Scooby Dooh and that was just her clothes. Oh, my God. I really hurt her feelings.

You carmet yourself into getting.

Punched in the head. I did carmed in the head punch. But a.

Little crying. That's every bachelor at party.

Every bachelor is a little cry, for sure.

They go home early on Friday night because everyone is jet-agged and has been crying. And so they're like, We'll just drink at the house. We can go to sleep. Tomorrow is our day to go out. It is now Saturday. 08:00 a. M. Ciaran is awoken because someone in the kitchen has popped a champagne cork.

08:00 AM?

Go off. 08:00 AM. Ciaran's like, Okay, great. So we're going off today. We're getting up early. Everyone's waking up. And she's like, This is fine. We do have a lot to do. Hand me a mimosa. Let's go. The plan for today is to see this city. They get up, they get going. The city, as they're getting closer and closer to the downtown area, smells like smoky.

Okay.

They're like, That's weird. There are paper lantons and streamers hanging everywhere on these little cobbled streets. All the girls are taking pictures of each other, right? They're like, Lean against that door. Put your right foot forward. Cock your hip. They're getting little photos of each other. I love it. So cute. But this means it takes forever for them to get downtown because they have to stop in every cute doorway and there are 25 of them. They get closer and closer into the downtown area and Kieran's like, Oh, my God, it smells like fish. . It smells like fish and basil, maybe. They get down there and there are sardines everywhere. Gross. Love it. This is like a sardine festival that happens in this city that no one in this bachelorette party knew was coming. So there are little booths filled with sardine stuff: art of sardines, sardines on toast, sardines and pasta, sardines everywhere. The groups respond differently to this. The sorority is afraid of sardines. They are terrified. They hate this. The jobs are housing sardines. They're just eating as many sardines as they can get their hands on.

The source of protein, man.

Exactly. That's protein, baby. Gain season. The book club has a couple of girls in it who don't speak the language of this country, but speak Spanish. And so they're trying to ask questions and communicate with people. The doctors are eating a few sardines casually. Ciaran is like, Okay, this seems fun. We don't have to do all the things on this list. We can just hang out here for a little bit. But she can tell that Natasha is mad that she's been like, Oh, these other things we're going to do, we're now not going to do because one, a lot of stuff is closed because it's a special sardine day for some reason. And two, there's a lot of sardine activities to do. Yes. People are like, There's sardine shit everywhere. At this point, the jocks buy sardine hats that are like, they go on your head like a regular hat, but it's like the face of a sardine fish pointing up so that it's above your head. So it's shaped like a Pope.

Hat, basically. This makes so much sense because they love team colors. They're like, We're on team sardine. We have a purpose. This makes sense.

Yes. The rest of this trip, the jocks are wearing these sardine hats. They love them. They're like, We know a bit when we see one and we will be riding this one to death. We love it.

I love it.

The whole time, Natasha is like, Aren't we going to go to this? Aren't we going to go to that? Ciaran's like, No. People are having fun. We only paid for one activity and that is this afternoon. So we can hang around. We can do stuff. The afternoon's adventure is sailboat. It is like Princess Diary's to the floor, right? Like, sisterhood of the Traveling Pants is the part where Rory goes to Greece, right? They get into the water and go around the city and look at everything and it's beautiful. Shiny water, perfect breeze. They have their little life jackets on. They're taking photos. The jocks are still wearing their sardine hats. They're posing next to the water. It's great.

Adult jocks sound really exhausting, but also.

Very fun. Yeah, it's like being around a bunch of teen boys.

Like, What do you do if you're good at sports? But then there's no success path for you as an adult.

You buy a sardine hat and have a good time, I guess. Everything is going great until a book club begins vomiting. The sorority girls are holding back her hair. Everyone is like, Oh, no. Now, Mila is vomiting. The water is too choppy. People are becoming seasick. Many people are vomiting off the side of the boat.

Oh, because they're full of sardines.

Because they're full of sardines. Sardines, part two sardines returned to the ocean. It's bad.

Oh, no.

The jocks are fine. They're patting everyone on the back to be like, You're going to be okay, buddy. Instead of doing another activity after sailing, Ciaran is like, We're going to go back to the house. Everyone is going to take a little nap, drink some water, be calm.

Ciaran's right.

Tonight's big activity is like a giant dinner. So everyone takes their nap, everyone gets ready. They go out to this beautiful space. It's huge stone walls, candle lit or net tiles everywhere. The vibes are atrocious because the doctors are hungover, the book club girls are hangry. Oh, no. The jocks are wearing their sardine hats, but they're also sunburned. The sorority girls are the only ones that are fine. They, in fact, look better somehow. But this dinner is a prefixed menu, and the first courses come out and they are sardines. No one is happy except for the jocks who are very happy. Mila is unhappy. If you're Kieran, do you do something here?

I got to make sure Mila is happy so I figure out what would make Mila happy. Is she unhappy with everyone being in a bad mood because we can't fix that? Is she unhappy with eating sardines because we can maybe fix that? What do we do?

You ask Mila and you're like, Why are you unhappy? And Mila is like, I cannot eat another sardine.

Okay, fixable. I talk to the chef, see if there's anything not sardine available.

Yes, Kieran is like, Let me talk to someone. She goes, she's like, Hi, is there any way that we could get some courses that aren't sardine? And the waiter is like, It's sardine festival weekend. Kieran is like, Yeah, I totally understand that. I respect it. I love sardines. But could we have some dishes without sardines?

I wonder if this is one of those very Google thing.

It certainly is.

Anybody who would know if you visit this country this time, the sardines rule this city.

Yes. But the waiter is like, Fine, I'll get you some courses that aren't sardines. Nabla is now happy because some land meat has emerged. Everyone is eating. Everyone is starting to feel better and better. The vibes are increasing because it's like we have been fed something that is not sardine. The plan for after dinner is club.

Okay.

Do you want to go to club?

How old am I?

Probably early 30s.

Honestly, no, because I heard in Europe, club age is like 16. I'm not trying to be like... Do you remember that entire season of Jersey Shore? Where they kept being like, She's too young for you, bro. And they were like 27. So I'm 34 and I'm about to be in the club with 16-year-olds? No, ma'am.

That's how Ciaran feels too. Not about the 16-year-olds, but just about she's like, I'm exhausted. I've been doing emotional labor all day. Everyone is very sleepy. Everyone is being weird. I think we should just go back to the house and drink fair. So offers to the group. She's like, Hey, I know that we've had a long day and the vomiting was rather unexpected. Does anybody want to go back to the house? That's totally an option.

Okay.

Everyone else is like, No, we want go to club.

Rally.

Okay. They go to the club. It is immediately like, oons, oons, oons, oons, oons. Okay. The lights are purple. Everyone's drinking.

Oh, my God. I'm in the mood. I'm in the mood.

Kieran is like, within minutes of being in the club is like, I feel better. The bass enters her bloodstream and makes her brain soft. So she's like, This is great. There are two groups, the sorority girls and the doctors and Mila and Natasha are dancing. The book club girls are hanging out by the bar, loitering, talking, flirting. The jocks, still wearing their sorority hats, are doing shots.

I love it.

Which group do you want to go with?

Okay. I don't think I can hang with the jocks. I'm worried the book club girls are going to want to talk about something serious, screaming in my ear, smelling like sardines. I hate when someone's trying to have a real conversation at bar. There was another group, right?

The dancers. Everybody's dancing.

I want to dance.

You're going to dance? I want to dance. You want to dance with somebody. Okay. Mila is also with the dancers. So Ciaran's like, I want to dance too. That's my girl. I'm going to go be with her. It'll be fun. Yeah. It's so fun. Ciaran's having a great time. Mila's sweaty. Everyone's sweaty. Ciaran's dancing with some guy wearing caprie pants. It's going great. Hell, yeah. At some point, Mila is like, I need another drink. Ciaran's like, Okay, Mila goes to the bar. Ciaran watches her order a drink. She's dancing. She watches Mila talk to the book club. And then suddenly Mila runs out of the club. Okay. Ciaran is like, Huh. She's like, I need another drink anyway. I'll go to the bar. I'll find out what's going on here. Maybe she just went outside for some air. So she goes to the bar. She goes up to Book Club and she's like, Book Club, what's up? Where's Mila? And Book Club's like, Oh, she ran away.

She ran away.

Ciaran's like, What? And the Book Club is like, Oh, yeah, she's a runner.

She's a track star. Caren's like, What?

And the book club's like, Oh, did you not know this? Mila is just like, she's the type of girl that she gets drunk and she runs away.

No, I'm sorry. That's not an acceptable personality to me after age 25. And it's unacceptable in a place that requires a passport because you're going to run away without your identification and end up in a jail. Like, no, unacceptable.

That is exactly how Ciaran feels. Ciaran's like, Thank God we're leaving tomorrow. I'm so sick of this shit. She's like, Why did she run, though? The book club is like, Oh, who knows? She just runs. The jocks are like, Nuh-uh, they were fighting. Ciaran's like, What? Apparently, what happened is Mila wanted the book club to dance.

Okay.

Fair. For the book club, the book club didn't want to dance because-.

Of course.

They're nerds. Because they're nerds and they were made fun of in middle school.

Yeah, and someone will knock their glasses off.

It's very- Somebody's going to call them Velma or something like that.

It all circles back. One of.

The book club girls jokingly is my trauma about being on a dance floor. Another one of the book club girls, jokingly, is like, Yeah, we all have traumas. It's like, maybe you got to have trauma to be friends with Mila. Mila did not like this joke.

Oh.

She immediately starts arguing with the book club about how the trauma of someone being mean to you on a dance floor is not the same as other kinds of trauma.

Oh, okay. So she's a little too drunk to have a sense of humor right now. She's taking stuff literally.

Yes. Okay. And one of the book club girls is like, Yeah, of course, there are levels of trauma, but trauma is trauma. And Mila is like, I know, but this is a safe space. You're with a safe group. I'm trying to help you.

I feel that. I'm putting myself in Mila's shoes, and it's like all I want is for everyone to have a good time. And I feel like part of my group just won't give in. Yes. And that would hurt my feelings. Yeah. Although running was not the solution.

The book club is like, we understand that you're trying to help, but we're not asking to be helped. Valid. We're asking you to understand.

An honor that we're weirdos. Got it.

And Mila said, I do understand. And then she yelled, I am an empath. And then she ran away.

Oh, my God. Okay, astrology. What do we think Mila is real quick. It feels.

Very cancerous to me. It feels cancer. Yeah.

I think she does feed off everyone having problems around her. She loves it. She wants to be the Mama Bear. But then the running when called out on it, yeah, it feels real cancer-adhesive.

Now we have chaos because Mila does not have a key to the rental. Mila does have a phone, but she has turned off her find my friends for everyone. Some of them have cell service and some of them don't. The divide in this group is some people are very worried and are like, Call the policea. This girl is dead. And some people are like, I'm not worried at all. We should probably just buy an air tag for Mila so we know where she is.

Jesus Christ. Turning off your find my friends is petty, petty. Yes. I don't like that at all. That's actually super fucked up. Emotionally, that's abusive.

What do you want to do here? Cuss her.

The fuck out.

You don't know where she is.

I don't like that shit. That really puts me in a bad head space. I'm a little triggered. I'm super triggered. I don't like this. I'm too anxious for people who aren't communicative. And I've just learned to be like, You know what? If your style is avoided, I have to avoid you because my style is, what's the opposite of avoid it? Anxiously attached. I'm Kieran. What do I do in this situation? Just go back to the house. So somebody's there when she gets there because she doesn't know how to get inside. I leave the girls and their groups and we go home. Because what are we going to do? Walk through the streets of Italy, try to find her?

Yeah, they decide split up.

Okay, that's a horror movie.

We go off. We will send the book club and the jocks who aren't dancing anyway back to the rental. They will wait there in case Mila shows up there.

Everyone.

Else will stay here at the club in case she comes back. And also because we don't want to leave and we are not worried.

Okay.

The Book Club and the jocks leave to go home. All right. Kieran notices a passport on the bar. No. And she's like, Oh, my God. One of these Book Club girls left her passport here. So irresponsible. She opens it and it's Mila's. No. Immediately after opening it, she gets a text in the WhatsApp that's like, Mila's back at the rental.

Okay, yay. Praise God. Cool.

So she's fine. What do you do with this passport?

I just go to the rental and give it to her.

Okay, that's not what we're doing here. That's a reasonable adult thing to do. Ciaran decides, This is my passport now.

Oh, my God, Ciaran. Ciaran.

Mila is being irresponsible. Mila doesn't even know this is missing yet. So Caren's like, I'm going to keep it for her, and I will give it to her tomorrow when she realizes it's missing because I think it's fucked up that she ran and I think it's fucked up that she won't apologize for it. And then she stays out dancing with the other half of the group.

I'm mad at Caren. Caren now. Caren is being a petty-betty and I don't like it. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Kieran is an Earth sign, probably a cap report. And she's hit a wall.

She has no more empathy left.

Nope, she ran out and now she's getting villainous. I don't like it.

They go back, they go to sleep. It's now Sunday. Again, Caren is woken up by the pop of a champagne cork. She looks up from the couch. It is a jock standing there in a sardine hat. She's like, great.

I keep imagining the jocks with a football jersey, sardine hat, no pants.

Yes, exactly. Yes. Ciaran is so hungover. Everyone else somehow seems fine. She's like, This is a nightmare. But she's like, It's fine. We're all out on a 2:00 PM flight. We're going to get it together. Do you think that that'll be fine? How are you feeling?

No, absolutely not. It wouldn't be a normal gossip story if shit didn't go really wrong.

Yeah, things are about to get worse. Everyone is out on this on 2:00, 3:00 PM flights. The sorority girls are making waffles. The book club girls and the doctors are packing. The jocks are tidying up. Book club is like, Everyone should make sure they have all their stuff and are ready to go to the airport by 11:00. At 10:00 AM, Mila realizes her passport is missing. She's freaking out. Everyone else is like, Oh, no. And she's like, We need to go back to the club. And they're like, Mila, sweetie, it is 10:00 AM on a Sunday. The club is closed.

Oh, damn.

You're Kieran. How long do you let her panic?

I tell her right then and there, I've got it. I'm responsible and I love you. Say thank you because I'm a cunt. You know what I'm saying?

Exactly. Kieran is like, I have your passport. You left it on the bar. Mila is like throwing herself around Ciaran. She's like kissing her cheek. She's like, Thank you so much. Ciaran's like, I'm not giving this back to you yet. And Mila's like, What?

You can't just give me my passport. Hello, embassy. You can't.

Just give me a password. Hello, embassy? Kieran is like, I'm not giving it back to you yet becauseis like, you ran, you made everyone panic, and then you didn't apologize.

That's some ho shit.

And Mila's like, I don't think everyone was panicking. I think it's fine.

It was not fine.

The rest of the group is gathering around. Everyone is here except for a sorority who is packing.

Good.

Ciaran's like, Raise your hand if you were panicking. Everyone's raising their hand.

You personally victimized by Mila's action? Yes. Oh, she's going to hate this. She's going to feel attacked.

Yes, she's like, apologize. And Mila is like, I'll apologize when Book Club apologizes to me for saying I didn't care about her. Book Club is like, That's not what I said, but I'll apologize for you understanding it that way. And Mila is like, That's not an apology. Now everyone is yelling.

I thought Natasha was going to be the problem, and she has not been the problem.

A sorority girl comes out of the room where she's packing and she's like, You guys, yelling, yelling, yelling. No one can hear her. She's like, You all, no one's listening. Finally, she's like, Hello, everyone stop. Everyone stops. Sorority three is like, We've got a little problem. Sorority four has just tested positive for COVID.

Oh, no.

We are now entering a dark era. They're not getting on this plane. Now we have a coordination nightmare, which is you need to move all your flights, which are all booked separately.

And somehow try to stay in this house.

The rental needs to be extended and everyone needs to test. Yeah. This takes hours. They send one of the jocks to the pharmacy for tests. The jocks come back with 60 tests. Okay. And the jocks are like, Can you believe that these tests were like €20 total? And everyone's like, That's great. Sure. They all test. The jocks are negative. Kieran, negative. Doctors, positive. Sorority, positive.

Shit.

Natasha, negative. Book Club, negative. Mila, positive.

Shit.

What do you want to do?

I mean, the safest thing to do is actually for everyone to function like they're positive, and they just all quarantine together, which is bad for everyone with a job. Oh, that's bad.

Mila bursts into tears. This is bad. She's like, I didn't want to get anyone sick. I don't want anyone to feel bad. I'm so sorry that this messes up everyone's plans. And everyone's like, Mila, it's fine. You didn't mean to do this. This is not your fault. We're all going to be fine.

Yeah, we don't know who got COVID from who unless Mila knew she had COVID before she went.

That's not a happy, normal gossip. I don't like that.

No, no, no.

Everyone who is positive is quarantining in their rooms. Everyone in the house is masking.

The.

Doctors are like, If you're negative and you mask it'll be fine, whatever. Ciaran is like, I'm going to help figure this out. I'm going to coordinate food being delivered. I'm going to make sure there's enough people in every room. I'm getting cold meds. Some people are sick, some people feel fine. They're lucky it's like a pretty mild strain. Everyone's vaccinated. So it's not the thing that's going to decimate anyone. The second day, they're getting their shit together. They have one tiny laundry machine. So they're doing loads and loads of laundry, hanging it out on the balcony. All of the healthy people are mad because they're like, We want to drink on the balcony. Why are these clothes here? And everyone says they need clean clothes. No one can agree on food. And the biggest problem is that Mila keeps hearing someone say that they need something and leaving her room to try and help. And everyone's like, Go back in there. And she's like, I want to help. And they're like, You can't help. You're positive. Stay in your room.

Oh, my gosh.

Days three and four, things are getting darker. Everyone is grumpy. The book club snaps on a jock and is like, Take those stupid fucking hats off. The jocks are like, No. The sorority orders food to the house, but only for them. One of the book club girls keeps demanding to talk to the delivery drivers because she, quote, speaks Spanish, which is basically the same language. And everyone's like, That's not the same. And she's like, Then how come I can communicate? And they're like, Don't know. Stop it.

Oh, my gosh.

By the time this is getting nearer to the end, it is like life story time, right? People are so bored. They're telling everything that has ever happened to them. The people who are quarantined in rooms are pressed up against the door trying to listen. All the negative people are in the living room. One of the Book Club Girls is telling this whole story about she wants her boyfriend to propose, but he won't propose. He says he wants to, but they're not making any progress, blah, blah, blah, blah. Everyone's chiming in with their opinions on this. Natasha is like, I think you should break up with him. Through the door, Mila yells, You just think everyone should break up. Now it is very quiet.

My eyes bugged out in shock because I just put together that Natasha is the reason why Mila and her fiancé broke up the first time.

What do you mean?

When she was like, Sorry, guys, weddings off. Natasha said some shit. And that's why Mila broke up with her brother, for sure, right?

Natasha yells back through the door. I don't think everyone should break up, just some people. And then Mila yells back through the door. You told my fiancé not to marry me.

Petty, what happened next?

It is silent in this rental for five seconds, and then there is a roar of everyone talking at once. Oh, no. People are yelling through the door, trying to say stuff. Mila opens her door to come out, and everyone's like, No, back in there. People are yelling at each other. People are whispering. It's game over. And also everyone has a frenzy that happens when you've been waiting for the information on something for a while and then you're given it, right? So everyone's like, all jittery.

Oh, this is nuts.

You're Ciaran. You've just realized basically why you were given this made-of-honor job.

I'm just quiet. I just wait to see what happens.

That is really nice of you. What Ciaran does is go up to the door that Mila is behind and resign as made of honor. Ciaran is.

Nuts too. And that's why Ciaran and Mila are friends because they're reactive nut bitches. They're really nutty. They're incredibly reactive. When Karen is upset, she does not think twice and she goes for the jugular. Why would she quit?

It's insane. They're all action, no thought.

Oh, my God. That was so thoughtless.

Ciaran is like, You only asked me to do this because you wanted someone to run this trip for you. I feel like you didn't communicate with me at all. Had I known that this is the situation of this trip, I would have been much better capable of handling things. She's like, A friend to all is a friend to none. Everyone is quiet listening to her. Mila, through the door is like, But, Natasha, would have felt excluded if she couldn't come.

Natasha.

Is shaking her head no.

Natasha would have been.

Fine at home. Ciaran's like, This is not about that. You're just really bad at boundaries. You're creating a system in which everyone has to do what you want because you won't communicate with anyone. And Miela is like, I can't help it if I just want people to have a good time. I'm just attuned to what people are feeling. I'm an empath. And Ciaran's like, We all know that you're an empath. But sometimes being empathetic to everyone means that you're not listening to the person who's talking to you. I'm telling you right now that I feel taken advantage of. Then they all have to live in this house for three more days.

Before.

Anyone can leave. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

On the third day, the people who are testing negative have been testing negative for long enough that they're allowed to leave. Okay. So, Natasha, Ciaran, the jocks and book club leave.

So it's just Mila and.

Sorority girls left? And doctors.

And doctors. I hate that the doctors were positive. I know.

It is helpful to have them there.

It might have been that the doctors brought it technically, probably. You never know where it came from. You never know.

Yeah. How are you feeling we are almost at the end?

I hate everybody involved, except for maybe the sorority girls. All they did was show up, look cute and have a good time.

They just did what they needed to do. They were there for their girl. They had fun. I think Kieran is messy boots too, and I think Nila is messy boots. I think Natasha is actually a real one. She's consistent, but maybe took on way too much. She should have never been the maid of honor. That was too much, especially if she didn't think her brother should marry her. No, she's messy boots for saying yes in the first place. Yeah, all of our main players are messy.

They are messy. The rest of what happens we learn from the group text because once all the negative people leave, the only communication they get from the house occurs in the WhatsApp group. And what they are really getting is a side group text. So one of the doctors created another group text to keep everyone informed without Mila. And what they learned in this group text is that because everyone was positive, they could come out of their rooms now because it's like, There's no one here to infect.

Yeah.

And because of that, they were able to have a face-to-face come to Jesus meeting with Mila where they were like, Why are you acting this way? What is going on? They're like, We think that you need to be less worried about how your responses are received in a situation and be more worried about your responses themselves. Okay. Through this, Mila was able to say, I think I just got really messed up by this because, Natasha told my fiancé that we should break up. The reason that she wanted them to break up was that she said that I wasn't thinking about him ever. Huh. And Mila was like, I think that I'm all always thinking about him.

I wonder where she would get that idea from. Is it coming from the brother or just her observations? Like, Oh, all you talk about is the wedding. It's like some of these people have this thing where they go... They see a bride beating a bride and they go, Oh, you care about is the wedding. I'm in bed with this man every night. You don't actually see us. I don't know. As a bride who lost a bridesmaid, I've been in a position where people look at you like, Oh, you care about his wedding. Because that's all we need to talk about right now.

That's basically what happened here, is Natasha was You want to be married more than you want to be married to him. And Mila was like, No, I'm just planning three days of festivities for 500 people. So I'm very busy. Yes. Then, of course, the minute they resolved whatever their fight was about, he told Mila this. So it created this deep well of self-consciousness in her that everyone perceived her as not thinking about them.

Oh, my God. See, that's the thing is that's how we created the bride chilla by victimizing women for caring about their weddings. We made them like, Oh, you're a bride zillah. Da da da da da da da. So now there's all these women who are like, Sure, whatever, it can start whenever. And then you just create an endless loop of communication because nobody wants to come off as caring too much about their weddings. Listen, if you're a bride listening to this, do whatever the fuck you want because people you cannot win. Just like as women, we exist in a virgin horde dichotomy. As brides, you're a bride-tilla or bride-zill-a. You can't make anybody happy. So get what you want and get the damn eggplants covered whatever fettuccini dish you want because nobody will be happy except you.

Yeah, I think that that's great advice, and I think that Mila could have used it. After this, the group chat goes exactly back to the way it was before, where everyone is just sending memes constantly. There is no chatter. There is no conversation anymore. It's like, great, we've handled that. It's over. If the coordination in earnest, nothing happened. Ciaran did go to the wedding. She wasn't the maid of honor. She was just a regular bridesmaid, and she had a great time. It was a great fucking wedding. Do you have any final takeaways?

Final takeaways. I think everyone involved is messy boots. I don't think you're or partner or siblings should get to be made of honor. Unless it was a situation where you married your best friend's brother, it should not be their sibling just because they're entering the family. That was a terrible idea from the beginning. I think... I think international travel during COVID was absolutely ridiculous and a terrible plan. I'm actually surprised some doctors were down with that shit. I'm really surprised there were some doctors that needed borders. I was really disappointed in them. Truthfully, I think everyone, except for the sorority girls, were just really a lot of letdowns. And yeah, there should be a cap on your friendship. It's okay to not pick everyone because I definitely think she looked at every segment of her life and was like, These are my doctor friends. So all of them go in. These are my-.

Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Yes. Yes. And it's okay to be like, I'm more close to this one than this way. There's no way you talk to all 10 girls you pledged to take a cow at the same time with. It's okay to be like, I'm actually closer to Brittany. It's okay. This is what happens when you're afraid to ever hurt anyone, you will hurt everyone.

Yes, I think that's a great takeaway here.

Thank you.

Jasmine, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a pleasure to have you.

Always. Always so much fun talking to you.

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip@defector. Com, or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679, Gossip. If you love this podcast and want us to keep making it, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip. Com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok @normalgossip. You can follow Kelsey on all social media @mkennieKelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex Su-Jong-Loughlin. Justin Ellis is Defector's Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defectors Business Guys. Tom Lay is our editor-in-chief. Jaytol Viera is our associate producer. Abigail Segel is our Intern. Dan McQuade runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossup. Com. Tara Jacobi designed our show art. Thank you to Louis Piaz-Pumar for your help on this episode. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defecter Media is a collectively-owned, subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossup is a proud member of Radiotopia. Normal Gossup is hosted by Kelsey McKinnie. I'm Allison Gidee, and remember, you did not hear this from me.

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