Hey, it's Alex from Normal Gossip. You have probably heard a couple of Radiotopia fundraiser ads at this point, but I wanted to come to you directly as a producer and talk about why Radiotopia matters. If you're listening to this, you are a fan of podcasts, you probably know that podcasts have really exploded over the last decade. There was a ton of money that was infused into the industry. Tons of jobs were created, tons of companies, and a lot of people got rich. The thing is, most of those people who got rich were not the actual producers, the creators behind the podcast that you know and love. Most of the people who got rich were the bosses, the executives. It is really difficult to make something that you're really proud of with people that you admire and trust and to be able to own that work both in a literal sense, as in retaining the ownership of your intellectual property, but also just being credited as the creator of your work. When I came to Defecter and started working on normal gossip, I wanted to try to do things differently. I wanted to make the work of producers more visible.

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Hello, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney. And in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am so happy to have with me today, Hayes Brown. Hayes, welcome.

Hello, Kelsey. I can't with this right now that I'm actually doing this with you right now.

I'm so happy you're here. I'm going to tell the people who you are before we get into it, okay?

Okay, go ahead.

Hayes Brown is a writer and editor for MSNBC Daily, MSNBC's digital opinion page, where he helps frame the news of the day for readers and appears as an on-air guest on the network. Hayes was previously at BuzzFeed News, rest in peace, where he was the deputy world news editor alongside other semi-random jobs. Fun. He also hosted Impeachment Today, a daily podcast covering the first Trump impeachment. I love the word first. And then co-hosted the podcast, News A clock. His written work has also appeared in Think Progressalso rest in peace. The outline also rest in Peace. The outline, also Rest in Peace. Oh, God. Foreign policy and The Week. And he holds a degree in international relations from Michigan State University. Hayes, welcome to the podcast.

Kelsey, thank you so much. I am just overjoyed to be here with you. I cannot explain how pleased I am to be doing this. The words, screaming, crying, throwing up come to mind. Internally, I am just over-stimulated to the point of vomiting, and that will continue throughout this entire process. I love that.

And I think that that's the right vibe, just in general, for what we're going to do today. I was told that you brought a gossip story for me, and then also I saw you waving around a piece of paper earlier. Can I know what's on there?

You may. So I sent out a call to some of my good friends, and one of them really delivered.

A best friend.

Yes. So Is this story comes pre-anonymized. So this friend of a friend, let's call her Sarah, is a lovely woman. Back in February, she was dating a guy that we're calling Dallas. Dallas? Dallas. Pretty wealthy, divorced, had a kid, but they were really happy together. Okay. Sarah had also been married before. She married young and she's a widow.

Oh.

Tragic. Tragic. But they were good together. But then Dallas got a seven-figure job offer in Singapore, right?

What's that like?

Right? Who knows? But Sarah is studying to be a nurse here in New York City, so they realize they have to break up. Very sad.

The time difference to Singapore, that's not manageable.

Right? So we fast forward to about a couple of weeks ago, right? When Dallas gets back in touch with Sarah and says, Look, I really need to talk to you. In the meantime, in that gap, she had started dating someone else, but didn't tell the new guy that she was going to meet up with her ex because she's like, What if it's nothing? What he wanted to tell her, though, was that he's not moving to Singapore. He had actually spent the last eight months negotiating with his company to give him the same salary they would have given him in the Singapore office in the New York office.

What?

Yes, because when Sarah said that she wasn't going to move with him, Dallas reevaluated his entire life, realized he couldn't live without her. And so he showed up to this meeting with Sarah with a plan to put her on the mortgage of his condo. He showed up with a diamond tennis bracelet saying he was still in love with her and wanted to marry her. And if she was open, he would propose when she's ready, but she can keep the bracelet either way. This is like, everything.

You're saying is like the fantasy that your friend tells you at brunch. I just feel that he's going to do this. And you're like, Carly, you're delusional. You are fully delusional. You are fully delusional. This is never going to happen.

But this happened, and Sarah apparently had the leverage to say, Okay, I'll think about it. And then sent him a $35,000 Emerald and diamond engagement ring. And he's like, Oh, yeah, that's doable. No problem. I could get you that. So she told her person she was dating that she's getting back with her ex. The guy went on a crazy racist rant because Dallas is Asian. So bullet-dodged.

Wow. Truly bullet-dodged.

Yeah, that happened. That is a real-life thing that happened.

I.

Know. Take a second. Breathe. Take it all in. I think.

What's freaking me out is this is like urban legend territory of the reason that people have false hope, right? Yes. It scares me because I'm like, There's no way. He spent eight months convincing... One, okay, Girl Boss. Incredible to convince them to give you seven figures to stay in New York City. But also, what?

Yeah, apparently he had cut off most contact with her, and she was feeling some way about it. But turns out, because he didn't want to give her false hope, he'd be like, So I'm negotiating with this. I'm going to try and make it happen. So she was like, Well, I guess he's moving on, and so I'm going to move on. And then he shows up and it's like, So yes.

Thank you. I appreciate your reporting of this gossip and you're bringing it to us. I'm sure the listeners will also be very grateful. If Dallas has brothers or cousins who are similar to him, I recommend him get in touch because I have a lot of single friends who would like to meet them.

I would like to meet. I would like to meet them too, honestly. Like, you know what? Yes.

What are they up to? I love this story. Thank you for bringing it to me. Do you want to hear the story that I have?

I want nothing more.

Oh, my God. Okay, let's get into it.

You're ready to gossip? I'm ready to gossip. Okay. Can you tell.

Me about how you get your hair cut?

Yeah, sure. So I actually... It's actually pretty ridiculous- Okay, great. Because I started growing my hair out. For years, I just got a super short, buzz cut thing going, right? And then around 2017, 2018, I started growing it out, but I had no idea what to do with it.

A classic problem.

A couple of very bad haircuts ensued where I was like, Oh, should I just buzz it all off and start over? And then I found a place that it's a salon that specializes in black hair. It's unisex. And the problem is, though, that since the pandemic, it has over doubled in price.

I'm sorry that happened to you. I know. That's bad. I know.

It's very boutique. It's pretty boujee. I love that. I'm not going to lie. Just take my money. I'm going to not think too.

Hard about it. Incredible. I asked because our friend of a friend today, Amber, works at a boujee salon. She started there right after high school, and she loves it. It's communal, it's gossipy, it's lighthearted. This space is not large, but it's very well decorated. Tall check-in-counter, nice host, huge mirrors with frames, stainless-steel washing stations. Beautiful. The customers are adorable, usually, but sometimes they're bad. They whine, they moan. They wine, clearly. Sometimes they bark. Oh? Yeah, because it's a dog salon where she works.

Oh, okay. You had me. You really... You got me. You had me. I was there, and then you pulled the twist, you pulled the rug out from under me, and I.

Appreciate that. How do you feel about this?

About dog salons in general or about this particular boogiey one? Both. I appreciate that they exist. I think that I have never taken my own dog to a dog salon, mostly because he hates leaving the apartment. Relatable. Right? He does not enjoy water. So I'm like, Why stress both of us out? I am very curious about the pricing structure, and I judge a little bit. I mean, some dogs need it. Yes. Like a long haired breed, like an English sheepdog or dogs that were with fur that cannot, it's necessary. I get it. Someone has to take care of that. Okay.

So I think your inclination to being judgy is correct here because this is like a fancy dog salon, which is why we call it a dog salon and not a groomer. Right. A dog wash. Or a dog wash. Yes. This salon is called Hound's Tooth.

Oh, that's beautiful. Oh, no. Oh, that's so toony.

Yes.

Hound's tooth. I'm impressed and annoyed at the same time.

The dogs that come to this place are fancy. They are little fancy dogs that go inside purses, big fancy dogs with too much hair, show dogs getting ready for their big day, and also mutts that just have really rich owners.

Right.

Amber loves this job. She's like, I love dogs. I love making them pretty. I love the vibes at Hound's Tooth, which are immaculate. But what she really loves are her coworkers and the people that she gets to hang out with all day. Right. But one summer, all of her coworkers start leaving. One bought a house, moved to a more affordable city. One yelled at a customer who said that she wanted her dog to have extensions.

No. Wait, so was she fired for say, for yelling? I mean, why? No, because the customer is wrong. Dog don't need extensions. No. Hold on. This is going to take me a second to process. I'm so sorry. I know you have more of a list to.

Go through.

No, good. I'm going to be stuck. The phrase dog extension.

Is going to be playing in my head. Sometimes the customer isn't right.

The phrase dog extension is going to be playing in my head on loop for days now.

Okay, let's continue. One of her coworkers left because they started dating the owner's daughter. Escondalow? The Escondalows at this place are huge. So now, poor Amber is the only one left at this boutique dog salon. And she is drowning in appointments. Way too many dogs. And she's mad because she's like, usually at this place, whoever the newest employee is has to do the worst task, obviously. But the worst task here is cleaning out the drains, which are full of dog hair, which is disgusting. And now, Amber has to do that. And she's like, I've been here for five years. I should not have to do this.

You are above drain duty, Amber. Yes.

You're, Amber, what do you do?

I mean, I start asking my friends, Hey, who likes dogs? Does anyone want to come work with me at this great dog salon? It's a worker's market, guys. We're desperate here. You can negotiate for a great salary. Might be better than mine. Who knows? Just come on and please.

Save me.

And also you have to deal.

With dog care. I love that plan. Amber is like, I'm going to talk to the owner of the salon and be like, I can't keep doing this. I'm going to die. So she goes and talks to the owner of the salon and is like, Hey, I am working all the time. There are so many dogs. I'm drowning. Please help me. And the owner is like, Would you consider becoming the manager? Do you think she should be the manager?

I mean, I have no idea about her organizational skills, but being manager automatically means that there is going to be someone below you to deal with the dog hair drain. Yes. So not bad. I mean, bump up that salary, make sure it's not just a title boost. Remember, the owner also should be desperate here, considering there's.

Only one worker. Yes. One employee.

So play your cards right, Amber. Yes. Do this. Yes, take the job, but.

Negotiate hard. Yeah, Amber is like, I know Sheryl Sandburg exists. Lean in, baby. She's like, I want to raise immediately. She's like, And I'm interested in being a manager, but manage who? I'm the only one here. So she's like, I want three people hired by the end of this month.

We like Amber.

Amber is a go-getter. She is. And the owner is like, done. She's like, I've been hiring. Your first hire starts tomorrow.

That feels like something that Amber might have should have known before that. But okay, sure, spring it now.

Why not? Next day comes. It's her first day as manager. She's like, Here I go. She arrives to open the salon and already a woman is there. She's in her mid-60s. She has purple hair. This is Queenie. Queenie is the new hire.

Okay. Are we talking purple like old woman, like light lavender purple? Or are we talking purple like deep, like.

Rich, royal purple? We're talking like royal purple.

Love it. Love her.

Wonderful. Here's Queenie's deal. Queenie used to be a nail artist for fancy celebrities.

I really hoped you were about to say for Fancy Dog. That works, too.

No, she did fashion week nails. She did nails for people going on tour, nails for Hollywood superstars. And all of those people drove Queenie fucking bunkers. So one day after some model was like, You have to remove all of my acrylic nails because they're one millimeter too long and put them back on, Queenie was like, No more divas. And so she quit doing celebrity nails. And she went to the dog salon school.

Which is a thing I've.

Just learned. Apparently. And she took a ton of supplemental classes. And so she's like, Now the only divas for me are dogs. And guess what? Dogs can't talk.

Correct. We love a late in life career shift.

Good for you, Queenie. Yeah, exactly. So Amber is like, Welcome, Queenie. So glad you're here. Here's your station. Queenie immediately starts pulling out fancy products. And so as Queenie is doing her first dog, and Amber is like, Oh, I realized what stylist Queenie is, which is that Queenie creates a spa-like atmosphere for the dog. She has very expensive shampoos and conditioners. She's pampering the dog, massaging the dog, playing calming music for the dog. That's her whole thing.

Okay, yeah, sure. You know what? As long as the owner of said dog is willing to pay for such.

Fanciness, yes. And these owners are- Sure, why not? -are. Oh, my God. Can you foresee any problems on the horizon at this point? Or are you still feeling good?

I'm feeling cautiously optimistic. My biggest concern right now is that Queenie might out-boujee the other future workers. So she's set in a bar pretty high for everyone who's to come after. So I'm hoping that the owner is looking for queenie level.

People at this point. The first week with Queenie goes great. She's a great worker. She's got all of her shit in order. She's very well organized and very good with the dogs. Yes. Early the next week, the second hire starts. Her name is Savannah. Savannah is like, Really? I am not here to make friends hours. She is like, I put my headphones in, I come to work, I do my work. I go home. Okay. Which is efficient. Yeah, absolutely. And she's not as into the swanky stuff as Queenie, which is helpful because sometimes you have dogs that just need to be shampooed. Does have a ton of her own supplies, but that's fine. Savannah and Queenie only talk at lunch. The rest of the time they are working independently. And so Amber's like, I'm the best manager of all time. Clearly. Everyone is doing great. But then two weeks after Savannah is hired, Amber goes into the little break room and Savannah and Queenie are whispering. And when she comes in, they stop.

Red flag. Red flag. Dangerger.

Dangerger. What? Why danger?.

Well, one, they don't talk. Why are you talking? Two, why did you stop when Amber walked into the room? I mean, as someone who, I wouldn't say is paranoid, but given the circumstances of this storytelling environment, I'm worried for Amber immediately.

Yes. Amber is also worried for Amber immediately. Amber is like, Are they whispering about me? And so she has absolutely no chill. And it's like, If you guys have something to say to me, please just say it.

I mean, yeah, go for it. As someone who can be more conflict-avoidant, I'm honestly impressed with that attitude that just like, You know what? I just want to nip this in the bud. If there's anything that's wrong, just let me know, as opposed to me who'd be like, You know what? I'm sure it'll get to me eventually. If it's something that's a problem, they'll just tell me.

I'll just talk to all six of my friends about how I'm really concerned about this for a month and never ask anyone about it. Yeah, I relate to that. Precisely. Yeah. The good thing about being direct is that you get a direct answer immediately. So, Quiti and Savannah are like, No, girl, we're not talking about you. And Amber's like, Okay, but then who were you talking about? If it's not about me, I want in. And they're like, We heard something on the rumor mill.

It's gossip within gossip.

Gossip within gossip.

It's a play within a play. We're doing.

Hamlet here, kids. It's Hamlet, baby. Amber is like, What did you hear? And Queenie's like, We heard that Hound's tooth hashas hired Dina.

You say that with such implications. And I would love to know more about this Dina and why they are so famous slash infamous. You will.

Amber is... Amber knows who Dina is, and Amber is immediately heart rate racing. She's like, Where did you hear that? And Queenie is shrugging. She's like, Oh, all the stylists are talking about it. Queenie is like, Do you know anything about this? Do you know if we poach Dina? And Amber does not know anything about this. What do you do?

Okay, first of all, if it's a poach situation, that means that Dina is working somewhere good, and she is good. Yes. So on the one hand, yay. On the other hand, the owner is really not sharing vital information with her manager at this point. And that's got to change. This information blackout situation is very stressful to me, and I'm.

Assuming Amber. Yes, Amber immediately calls the owner, and she's like, Hello, excuse me. Did we hire Dina? All the girls are talking. And the owner is like, Oh, I wanted it to be a surprise. And Amber is like, Okay, maybe let's not do that. Surprise it. I need to know what's happening here, please. But she is also psyched. Because Dina, as you have surmised, is the dog stylist in this city. She's got hundreds of thousands of Instagram followers. She makes beautiful little reels and TikToks of the dog transformations. She traveled out of the country to learn Japanese grooming styles so that she can turn the dog's hair into these special shapes. She is inspiring the next generation of dog stylists.

Well, as long as she's inspiring the.

Youth, I can't fault her. Yeah, Amber is thrilled because she's like, Dina is insanely technically talented. She can do things that no one else can do. She can do perms. She could do highlights. Amber is like, if anyone could add extensions to a dog, it's Dina.

But does she know enough to not? That's my question.

Wow. Would you like to see an example?

Oh, God, yes. Oh, God. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, it looks so happy, but it shouldn't. No.

Tell the listeners what you see.

What I see is a before and after. On the left, it looks to me like a Bichon Frise, some fluffy white little dog. On the left is it's overgrown for it's in its eyes. Its whisgers are too long and have those little brown streaks on it that are very tragic that white dogs get. But he clearly can't see. Just not great. On the right is the after, where on the one hand, the pup looks so much happier. The fur is very neatly cut, tight. Instead of having loose curls everywhere, it's very teddy bear, lamb-looking. But then on top is what I can only describe as a very 90s flat top, like a shorter version of Gerald from Hey, Arnold, if you're of a certain generation. Full-on, if that were a character in a 90s sitcom, his name would be Jermaine. That is the hairstyle we're talking about.

Would you like to see another example of what Dynac can do? Yes, please. Here it is.

I don't know how I feel.

About this one.

It took me a second to process what I'm looking at. And this is... It does resemble, in a sense, dog extensions. It's a husky, Malamuddy looking dog, black and white. And in their fur, there's feathers, bright multicolored, some striped feathers put in its hair, put in it below its ear, where you would see a pony tail hanging or something like that. And I'm like, Is this appropriation? What is happening here? I don't know who would be appropriated, but it makes me immediately think, What are you mimicking? And why does it feel a little offensive on.

The inside? Yes. It's like, White Girls in 2010 at Coachella hours. Yes.

In this dog. Right. It's like, Wow. You know what? If you can scam someone out of, I'm sure, hundreds of dollars for some tacky feathers in your dog's fur, you know what? More power to you? Sure, I guess. On that one level, I will accept this level of scam. But weird.

Amber is thrilled. She's like, I'm so glad we got Dina. Dina is a genius. Dina is supremely talented.

And that's where your problem starts. Working with geniuses never goes well, unless they are the very... So assume geniuses, one % of the world, right? 0.1 % of those people are well adjusted, normal people that you want to spend time with. Yes.

Amber immediately goes waltzing back into the break room and is like, Great news, we got Diana. And Queenie and Savannah are so excited. They're like, She's so talented. This is so great. Hound's tooth is really moving up.

I'm shaking my head because I feel like they're overlooking a couple of key issues here that I'm really curious. Okay, what are they? So I feel like issue number one is, you're now working with a genius. Everyone's going to want to book the genius.

You.

Are automatically the backup to Dina in terms of bookings. And going back to my original genius point, like, Yeah, she's very good, but I've heard nothing about how she is to work with. I've heard she's so nice. She's so funny. Just know that she's so talented. That is a red flag to me. Yes.

Dina arrives the next morning. She's 15 minutes late. She is wearing those tiny, tiny sunglasses. She looks like the stylist from The Princess Diaries.

Yes, that I can appreciate.

She has two suitcases with her. Like roller bags? The roller bags. They are filled with products. She has mooses. She has gels, she has scissors. She has feathers, she has sparkly tensile. Who knows what that's for? She has protractors. And she also has dog treats and dog toys.

Protractors is what really killing me right now. Because if you guys had seen with your eyes the image of these dogs, then yeah, you're going to need a protractor to get those angles so exact.

Exactly. Dina shows up. Everyone's so happy to meet her. She introduces herself, and then she does not stop talking for the entire eight hours that she's there.

About.

What? You know, whatever she thinks of. Oh, no. She is just a talker.

Yep. Okay.

Amber is like, maybe she's nervous? The next day is the same. She comes in. She turns down the music so that they can all talk. Oh!

Okay, so Savannah is already like, I'm just here to listen to my music, not listen to Dina. So this is already a problem brewing. Yes.

On the third day of Dina's tenure, everyone is swamped when this little tiny dog is brought in. This dog has a problem that I have now learned is extremely common in dog salons, which is that the dog has a lot of matting in its fur because he isn't brushed for whatever reason. Right. And so the stylist needs to brush out all the mats. But the people who bring in these kinds of dogs that are very matted, they always have the same excuse, which is like, My relative watched the dog over the weekend, and then he just became very madded by magic in three days.

Yeah, clearly. I brush Lord Fauntleroy here thrice daily. And then when my instructions were not followed once, look at him. Look at him.

He looks like garbage. Exactly. So the woman who brings in this dog is like, I want... What did you say? Lord Fontholroy brushed, and I want him unmatted. And I want to pay the same amount that I would usually pay for a dog to just be groomed.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm sorry. This is Houndtooth plus Dina.

Exactly. We have a scale here, and the scale is only for rich people. So Amber is like, Okay, we'll take the dog. You're going to have to pay extra for us to unmat it. And the woman's like, Sure, whatever. Money is no object to me. Please make my dog beautiful again. And Amber's like, Great. So she goes around and she's like, Queenie, do you have time for this dog? And Queenie's like, No, I have like, eight dogs on my schedule. They're all returning. They're all fancy. Amber is like, Okay, she goes to Savannah. Savannah takes out her earbud where she's listening to music to ignore Dina. And Savannah is like, No, I'm doing 20 dogs today. I don't have time for this. Amber is like, I also don't have time for this because I need to work the front desk and I need to manage. So she goes over to Dina. Dina has spent all morning braiding the ear hair on a cocker spaniel.

I'm a whore. God damn it, Dina. Amber is like.

Dina, a really love what you're doing here. Really respect this. Could you help me with this severely madded dog instead? And Dina's like, I'm so sorry, but I've only done one of these Cocker's manuals ears, so I have to do the other one. And Amber's like, Okay. So she goes back to Queenie. And she's like, Queenie, please, can you please fit this dog in? And Queenie is like, Sure. But she is clearly pissed. Yeah. You have to manage them.

Yeah.

How?

I feel like if I'm Amber at this point, I don't know, my personality type is I would have been the bullet as Amber. I'm like, Well, okay, if they're all busy, I'm just going to do it myself just to make sure it happens so I don't make anyone else upset. I might fall behind. I might have to stop and start to go help people up front. But they're all doing their own thing. So I'm going to take Lord Fort LaRoy and spend an hour and a half brushing out his matts when I really just want to take a razor and buzz it all off because that's what the owner deserves at this point. But no, I'm going to be a.

Good worker. Amber hands off Lord Fort LaRoy to Queenie, and she's like, Thank you for your service. The next week, word of Dina being at Hound's tooth has gotten around. Oh, no. So people are coming in with truly the most arranged request you could possibly imagine. They're like, Can you make my golden retriever look like this poodle? Oh, God. And Dina is like, Yes. And then she spends all day making a golden retriever look like a poodle.

And that's cool. But that also means she's doing a dog a day.

When everyone else is like, 8, 10, 20 dogs.

Yes, that is exactly the problem. It's in the different styles, right? Savannah can do the most dogs because she's not doing anything fancy. So she's also making a good amount of money because she's doing 15, 20 dogs a day. Queenie is doing her little boujee-er version, 10 dogs a day. And Dina is doing one or maybe two dogs per day.

So now.

You have a little bit of a resentment problem?

Shock. I never could have seen this coming.

On Friday, things have gotten so bad that when a woman comes in with a fluffy dog and she's like, Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Something crazy happened. On the way in, he got a Scorpion stuck in his tail. Can you take care of that?

Excuse? As in the Scorpion is alive and you just have to catch and release it and try not to get stung in the process? Take him to the vet first. But no, I guess you had an appointment.

Yeah, she has an appointment. Things are so bad in the salon at this point that Amber is like, I'm going to deal with the Scorpion. I cannot even think about asking someone else to do it because they will all lose their minds.

As they should, because the only thing worse would be if they had come in and said, Okay, the Scorpion is stuck there, but it's inspiration. So not only can you remove it, can you make my dog also look like a Scorpion. As an homage to this moment in time.

Amber does it. It takes her a while, but she gets rid of the Scorpion and is like, I'm successful or whatever. But now she's in the worst mood of all time because she's spent all morning trying to not get stung by a Scorpion.

Yeah, and not get the dog stung by a Scorpion. Yes.

She's in this shit mood. When Queenie comes up to her and is like, I need to talk to you. And Amber's like, Okay. And Queenie is like, Dina is stealing my very expensive dog conditioner and you're missing it all.

Okay, plot twist did not see this being an issue when she'd already come in with several roller bags and stuff. Though now I'm looking back and thinking, How much that did Dina pay for? Did she just load up her roller bags at the last dog salon on her.

Way out? Wow, a conspiracy theory.

I am full on. I don't believe anything about Dina at this point.

Amber is like, Okay, how do you know that she's stealing your very expensive dog conditioner and using it all? And Queenie is like, My product is always moved when I go in to wash my dogs. And Amber is like, Okay, but dogs are a little rambunctious. So sometimes things just get moved. They hit the conditioner with their tail and then it gets picked up and put somewhere else. How do you know? And Dina has all these fancy products she brought with her. Why... Amber is like, These things aren't making sense to me. And Queenie is like, I know she's doing it. She's such a diva.

Oh, my God. Queenie is having PTSD, flashbacks. She's back in her own personal celebrity realm right now.

Oh, no.

Poor.

Queenie. She's like, This is my worst nightmare. I've been returned into hell. And the hell is women who think that they are the most important thing in the world doing whatever they want all the time. Amber is like, Okay, I hear you. Totally understand. Let's take a breath. Maybe she used your conditioner just because she had a difficult dog or something. Let's wait before we freak out. And Queenie is like, Okay. But then the next week she comes back and is like, There is less product than before she is stealing my product.

This is a tough one because there's really no evidence at this point to point fingers at Diana, there's no like, I saw her pick up the bottle and use it when she thought I.

Wasn't looking. It is vibes only. Yeah.

There's no, This dog smells like this conditioner that she was working on. And I know that she doesn't have this scent in her... There's nothing. Not even.

Circumstantial evidence. Amber is like, I will talk to Diana. So she goes to Diana and she's like, Dina, is there any way that you could be accidentally used using Queenie's products when you are washing your dogs? And Dina is like, Absolutely not. I have a sponsorship with this fancy celebrity dog product line. I would never use Queenie's products.

Oh, my God. Again, I'm torn between admiration and disgust at this point. Kim, there are people dying. There are people dying, Kim, is how I feel.

Right now. This is a real Kim there are people dying story just across the board. Amber is like, Thank you, Diana, for this information. And then she goes back to Queenie and she's like, Queenie. Diana says she's not using your conditioner. She says that she always uses this one brand like, I don't know what to tell you. And Queenie is not happy. Things are slowly escalating. But after a month of all of these women being hired, Amber is finally able to let someone else open this lawn instead of her. She's like, Great day for me. I get to sleep in. Terrible day. She's sleeping in when her phone rings and it's Dina. Do you answer it?

I mean, yes, yes. Because what if it's like, Oh, my God, the salon is on fire. Help. Or like, Oh, no, a dog has been brought in with a bear trap attached to it. We can't convince the owner to go to the bed. If there's an actual emergency, yes. But my gut is saying it's not. But it's her first time. She's never been manager, never let someone else open the door.

She picks up the phone. Amber is like, I'm sleepy if it's an emergency, they'll call again. Yeah. Oh, don't move. Immediately, Diana calls again.

God damn.

It, Dina. So Amber is like, Hello, what? And Dina is mad, mad. And she's like, Queenie, open the salon. And so then she got to delegate who gets which dogs. And Amber is like, Yes, that's how opening works. And Dina is like, Okay, but Queenie has nine dogs and I only have one. Excuse me.

Wait. I'm sorry. Is she mad about the system as it has functioned here to form?

Yes.

She's just mad that someone else has.

Decided this? Yes.

I'm confused on several levels now.

And she's like, I just can't believe that Queenie had the gall. And then when I asked her, How come she only gave me one dog? She said, You only ever do one anyway. And Amber is in her head like, That's true, though. Yeah, like you-.

Okay, and any alternative is worse. You get that right down. That's worse if you're normally given four or five dogs and you do one or two. That's worse. I need you to understand that that's.

Worse, Dina. Amber's like, I'm so tired. I don't understand what anyone is talking about here. She's like, Okay, so the problem is that you only have one dog? And Dina's like, Yes. And Amber's like, But you usually, no offense, only have one dog. And Dina's like, Yeah, but not a yellow lab. Queenie has given her just a dog that needs to be shampooed.

Okay, that's really funny. Actually, that's actually really funny. I am sorry, but that is the perfect burn. I am so proud of Queenie for the level of snub that went into... That's some foresight. That is her years of experience of dealing with divas at work right there. Nothing that could really be harmful or anything, but just enough to let her know that.

You're not as good as she think. Amber is like, Okay, thank you. I will text Queenie. Whatever. She texts Queenie. She's like, Queenie, I see what you did here. Can you please give Dina one more dog? Please. And Queenie text back, I refuse to split my earnings with that fief.

Oh, face crack. Wow, she's still all in on that. . Wow. Okay, sure.

We're.

Doing it. Amber is like, Okay. The problem here is that you still don't have any proof. If you had proof, that would be different. I really need to go back to bed. Please just fucking give Dina one more dog. And Queenie is like, Okay. Things do not get better after this. Queenie keeps trying to split the work the same way. Dina keeps only doing one dog per day. Amber has to do more and more dogs every day because Dina is so slow. The only person having a good time is Savannah because she just comes in with her headphones and does her 15 dogs and leaves.

Bless her. Bless her. And getting the same rate, same base rate as the others. You know what? Great. And that does occur to me part of why Dina is so mad about this because not only is she being artistically stifled, but the basic dogs, their owners are not tipping like the fancy dogs. They're like, Oh, you did a shampoo. Great. Here's an extra $30, which sounds like a lot.

To a normal person. To normal people. Yes.

But she's, I'm sure, used to getting like, Oh, you made my dog look like Mufasa from The Lion King, falling to his death specifically.

$300. Yeah.

Great. Here, have five grand or whatever. Just ridiculous things like that. So yeah, yeah.

Because of this dynamic, Dina and Queenie start to throw little bombs across the salon. Like, Dina opens a box using Queenie's specialty hair cutting scissors.

Oh, wow!

And then when Queenie starts just using the loudest blow dryer they have every time Dina is trying to take a video.

This is beautiful.

Dina posts a pic on her Instagram and in the background, Queenie is in the middle of eating a sandwich.

It's so petty. It's so beautifully petty.

Oh, wow. It's so petty. Kewiti, who was always on time, starts getting there early so that she can place DIBs on dogs before Dina shows up. Yes. And Dina whines to Amber about this, and Amber's like, She's here early. I don't know what to tell you. This is going on for weeks and weeks and weeks. The vibes are just getting worse. Yes. Let's check in how are you doing? How do you feel?

As an observer, I'm loving this. I can only imagine bringing in my dog for their monthly shampoo or whatever and observing this going on, being like- What is going on? I think I'm going to take lunch here because I just want to watch this for the rest of the day. As a staffer, I mean, Savannah has had the right to do the whole time. Shout out to Savannah. But if I'm Amber, I'm losing my mind. Absolutely. Just like, Because how do you stop this wool? How do you end the fighting? I don't know. I just don't know.

She is miserable. This is going on for weeks. One day she's working at the front desk and she gets a phone call. And on the phone call is a very important and fancy woman. And the fancy woman is like, I am in a bind.

I'm sure that money can help you.

Go on. Exactly. And she is like, I have two dogs. They both need to be groomed and styled, and their normal stylist is sick. The woman on the phone is like, My special, beautiful dogs, it will take them each all day to be styled, and it has to happen tomorrow because they're going to the regional dog show competition. Oh, okay. Then she is like, Both of my dogs were sired by a previous American Kennan Club finalist named Chinin Blanc. And they are very fancy.

I mean, finalist? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. It's still very fancy. It's very fancy.

This woman is like, Can you please groom my two dogs at Hound's Tooth tomorrow? It needs to be very precise. It will take all day. But my dogs are on the rise. This is their big break. They need to match.

Wait, you're entering both dogs of the same... Read into the same breed into the same show? They're competing against each other? Yes. That feels like a bad strategy, personally. I guess maybe you're maximizing the odds of your dogs trying to reach the finals of whatever, but if they look exactly alike, spend your money, fancy woman. Spend away.

Amber is like, Thank you so much for calling, Houndtooth. We would love to help you with this problem. What dogs are they? And the woman is like, Oh, they're Bichonfrieses.

Yeah, Yes, of course they are. Of course they are. Bichon-friese is just the fanciest of little dogs. If you want fancier than a toy poodle, you go for the Bichon-Friese. Even the name feels like you're ordering at a French restaurant.

It sounds like a salad with a goat cheeseball. Right, Liz?

Picture a cotton. Now make me the dog. That's a Bichon-Fries-Ais. The head is pure dandelion, fluff, round. The shape is round. If you stuck a cotton ball with little Q-tip teeth on the body, that is a Bichon-Fries-Aid.

Obviously, this is a hard dog to groom because the word you kept using is round, right? Which means that that dome of hair needs to be symmetrical. You are.

Working in three dimensions at all times. Yes.

So the clear choice of who you would give this dog to, to groom, is Dina. Correct. But there are two dogs. Also, correct. And Dina famously works extremely slowly. Yep. So do you think that she can do two in one day? What do you do here?

Okay, I just want to say that this has full-on after-school special vibes now. This is the moment, or for the nerds out there, the neon Genesis, the Evangelion moment where the two competitors have to work in sync side by side, perfectly symmetrical, otherwise everyone is doomed. This is the high school sports movie moment where teamwork is key. Do I think Diana can do it in one day? Probably not. That might be a risk you have to take. But in theory, this is a moment where Queenie, Dina, put aside their differences, work together for the good of Hound's tooth, and make these dumb dogs.

Exactly alike. Yes. Amber tells the fancy woman on the phone. She's like, Absolutely, we can do this. And the woman's like, Great. I'll drop them off at open. I need them back by 5:00 PM. Amber's like, No problem. She goes to Queenie and and she's like, Can I talk to you? And they're like, Mm-hmm. And Amber's like, Listen, I've cleared both of your schedules tomorrow. I know that you are in a feud. I have gotten you a bonding activity.

Yes.

She says the name of the owner. She says Chinin' Blanc, the dog's dad. And both Queenie and Diana's jaws drop. Yes. And they're like, Which one of us gets to do the dog? Amber's like, No, no, no. There are two dogs. You will each do a dog and they will match. And Queenie and Dina are both thrilled. Amber's like, I'm the best manager of all time. I'm a genius.

Oh, no. You can't just do that and then walk away. Yeah, they're thrilled, but Amber, sit down with them, make a game plan. Okay, what's the mission brief? How old are they? How long is their hair coming in? What's the achieved goals? I need to see sketches, rough drafts of how you're planning on doing this before I leave.

You alone. You're drawing a football coach schema on the board. We're going to run this play.

Right, we're starting at the tail. The tail needs to be 14 millimeters long at the end, moving up.

Towards the head. Pretty good geometry drawing.

Right. The head needs to be a perfect 180-degree arc, if not mission failure. Yes.

Amber arrives at the store 15 minutes before it's supposed to open. Queenie and Dina are both there, and she's like, Well, well, well. And they look happy. They're chatting. They open the store. An escalade pulls up. The woman gets out of the escalade with her two dogs. She's like, I know they look bad. I had to let their hair grow to be as long as possible for the show, and that's why I needed you to block the whole day because they don't look fancy right now. This is not a picture of these dogs, but it is the right vibe.

Oh, buddy. So the picture I'm looking at, that dog's name is Scruff, and they're a very good pup. They are not a show dog. They are just like... Scruff has been your family, friends dog for most of your life, it feels like. I just love to give them a hug every now and then. They can be a little testy-ish as they're getting older. But you know what? They're a very good patient dog. That is not a show dog. That is just...

That's good old scruffs. This is a dog that's a regular at a bar, right? He's not fancy. And she's like, These are my dogs. The stylists are like, Okay, thank you so much. The woman drops her dogs off and they leave. And Amber is like, This is so great. We're all going to work together. We're going to make a plan. We're going to make these two dogs full-glow up, they're going to look incredible. And the stylists are like, This is a good old-fashioned style off.

Absolutely! It hit me right before you said it that, Oh, no. These two are absolutely going to be like, Which dog looks better? Not, Do these dogs look exactly alike?

Yes. Amber is like, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is not a style-off. Queenie and Dina are like, It's a style-off. Oh, first, the dogs must be bathed. They take them into the little bathing room. They wet them all down. They massage the dogs with their shampoo. Queenie adds a special conditioner. Dina is using her celebrity dog products. They both do the shampoo very gently. They're massaging the dogs between their eyes to make sure that they are very clean. The dogs are just sitting there. They look bored.

Yeah, the dogs.

They're used to this. They're very well behaved.

It's like kids not being used to the fact that they're going through something that normal people get to do.

Yes. The dogs are just sitting there. Dina decides to wash her dog again. And Queenie is like, Oh, is that how you're using so much of my product? And Amber is like, Stop it. Queenie double-conditions her dog. They both apply heat protectant, and then they dry the dogs with a towel and they blow-dry them. And is yelling across the dog's lawn. She's like, You hold the blow-dry too close. If you back it up, it'll work better for this. And Queenie just turns the music up. They have to brush the dogs while they blow dry. This is a very long process. Everyone's getting an elbow repetitive use injury, right? It is hard. Then they have to use a tiny razor to shape in between the dog's little claws so that you can see the claws, and then they have to trim their nails. Next, they have to trim the body of the dogs. Bichons are all about shape. I have watched a lot of videos on how to groom a bichon for competition. And the best way I can describe it is that it's like trying to trim a hedge, right? Yes, exactly. It's about shape.

So they are going, Snip, snip, snip, snip, snip. The tiniest pieces of hair are falling to the ground. Dynacid and Queen Air are backing up 10 paces. They're looking at the dogs. They're coming back. They're sniffing again. The haircut is supposed to be like close to the body in the torso and then fluffier in the legs. The whole time they're sniffing, they're also sniping at each other. They're like, Your dog's hair is too long on his stomach. They're not going to match. They're like, Your dog's nails are too long. They're not going to match. By 3:00 PM, they have been working all day. They are done with the bodies, and they are moving on to the big, fluffy hits. Oh, God. Diana's dog is slightly fancier than Queenie's dog and keeps turning to look across the salon. And Dyna is like, To Amber, can you make Queenie and her dog move? She's distracting my dog.

I mean, have these dogs been fed and walked in this time, or have they been just on the table? On the slab?

Amber is like, No, I will not move her dog. Find out what your dog needs and figure it out. Queenie and Dina are both using the finest toothcombs you could find to pull these dog's hair out, out, out, out, out.

Right. And then the tiniest tips?

Yes. Their heads are like beachballs. They're like the biggest round dog heads in the whole world. They're using a razor to get the eye crusties out to make their eye holes look like little port holes to hell, right? They're holding the dog's nose like it's a drawer handle while they're like scissors to dip. It's insane. Meanwhile, Savannah has styled 22 dogs today to pick up the slack. Salute. Yeah, she's just walking back and forth with big dogs this whole time, cleaning them up and sending them back out. The woman is coming back at 5:00. Yep. Amber is becoming stressed because Diana keeps stopping to take videos. Diana, no. But her dog is looking really round and fluffy. Queenie, who has been going slower all day because she's clearly less used to this, is also has her dog looking very round and fluffy. At 4:45, Amber is like, Queenie. And Queenie looks over her and she's like, There's a little hair that's way too long in the back of your dog's head. Can you please get that? And Queenie is like, Oh, my God. Yeah, good eye. And she darts over to get her scissors out of the sink.

And as she darts, she bumps into Dina. No. Who has the scissors in her hand? Oh, no. Shops a little chunk. No. No, Kelsey. No. At the bottom of the Vue Chantresiae's sphere head. No, Kelsey. No. To be clear, the dog is fine. Oh, yeah, no. It is the sphere shape that is no longer fine.

Absolutely. Yeah, I get that. I get that they failed their mission now. Unless you take a chunk out of the other dog's head to be like, Clearly, that's the.

Style, right? Yeah. What are you going to do here? You have a chunk missing.

I'm assuming that glue is not an option. Oh, do you know what? I got it. I have the solution. Lay it on me. Dog extension.

I love this plan and I don't think it would be a bad idea if they were not running out.

Of time.

Yeah. Queeny is so apologetic, right? She did not mean to bump Dina at all. And Dina is so angry. She's combing and this cannot be fixed. And she's like, Amber, what do I do? And Amber is like, You're going to have to make the whole sphere smaller. Oh, God. Like, to make it look even.

Yeah, that's the only real solution. And then you had to do the exact same length on the other one.

Well, that's Dina's point. Dina's like, Well, this isn't fair. If my dog has to have a smaller head, Queenie's dog has to have a smaller head too. But then the question is, this woman who specifically grew her dog's hair out, do you think it's more important to her for them to match or for the circle to be as big as possible? That's the question dujour.

I mean, I'm not familiar with AKC standards. I don't know if there's a specific length for the shape of the Bison Frise head to be. The sensible thing to do would be to call her and be like, Hey, I know you're on your way. I just wanted to ask, which is more important to you? Size of roundness or or exact matchiness because we are so close to being finished, but we just want to be sure that we know your preferences.

I love that. That's not what's going to happen here. No, it isn't. Amber is like, She's like, We're just going to leave one of them bigger, and the two of you are going to have to work together to make this dog's head a perfect circle in the time before this woman gets here. No one is happy about this. They are both grumbling. Dina is so angry there's steam coming out of her ears. They're furious. But they get this dog's head made a smaller circle and they're like, Fine, it's done. They have five minutes left. Dina is so pissed. She's like, You did this on purpose to Queenie. And then she marches into the back room. All the dogs are barking. The music is so high. And she unscrew the lids on Queenie's shampoos and conditioners and dumps them down the drains. No! Oh, wow.

That escalated quickly.

Queenie goes storming back there. She begins dumping Dina's celebrity dog products down the train. They are both yelling.

That's less effective. She has a sponsorship. She's going to just get more of that for free, Queenie. That is less effective.

Do you intervene?

And put your body in between the product wars? Yes, you intervene, but only for the sake of the fact that the client is almost there. And this is not how we behave at Hound's tooth.

Amber is watching. She's panicking. They are both yelling. A lot of dogs are barking because people are yelling. Queenie is accusing Dina of cheating at dog grooming. Dina is accusing Queenie of being low class. They're getting closer and closer together. And Amber is like, Oh, my God. Are these grown women going to fistfight? That is deranged. As this is happening, Savannah, headphones in, comes in with her little golden retriever, puts it in the bath. They're yelling at each other. Savannah turns the water on. She turns around. She takes her headphones out. She's like, Hey, sorry to interrupt. Where's the shampoo? They're all like, What?

What? You don't have your own Savannah?

You.

Don't have your own shampoo? You think there's a communal shampoo, Savannah, after all these weeks?

They're like, What do you mean? And Savannah's like, Oh, there's no shampoo here. How am I supposed to wash the dog? And Amber is like, What shampoo have you been using? And then Savannah is like, Oh, whichever one's usually in here. And she picks up Queenie's bottle off the floor.

I wish I had said something. I've been wondering whether Little Quiet Savannah has been the culprit this whole time. But I'm like, We're just going to let that lie. You know what? Because Savannah is over there minding her own business. And you know what? Let her do her thing.

Amber is like, Oh, my God. This is great news. This whole feud was a big misunderstanding. She's like, Queeny and Diana, isn't this so funny? It was Savannah. Savannah has moved on. She has her headphones in. She's shampooing the dog. She's oblivious. Amber is like, The two of you can chill out now. Your feud was based on nothing. And Diana is like, What are you talking about? And Amber's like, Queenie thought that you were stealing her conditioner? And Diana is like, Why would I steal her cheap conditioner? And Queenie is like, You're a bitch. And now they are really fighting.

Oh, no. So just to backtrack, it appears that Queenie has never actually told Dina what the issue is. Just let this build up until it became this absolute toxic cesspool that has become... Wow. Wow, going back to the beginning. It turns out Amber had a great idea by talking and speaking up instead of letting.

Things sit. The fancy lady will be here at any minute. Your two dog roomers are screaming at each other. How do you get them to stop?

Grab the squeaky toys, the.

Squeaky, squeaky. Distract them? Amber grabs the nozzle and sprays water at their feet. They both shriek. And she's like, Listen to me. You have to stop. The fancy lady is going to be here at any minute. And when she gets here, we need an explanation for why one of these dogs has a smaller head than the other. Queenie and Diana are like, Well, what are you going to tell her? And Queenie is like, Dina did this. Dina's dog is the one with the smaller head. And Dyna is like, You literally hit me. And Queenie is like, But my dog looks perfect.

Both excellent points, however, not the fancy lady's problem.

Yes. And Amber also knows that the fancy lady, all fancy rich ladies want there to be a consequence for any problem that they face. So she is like, I'm going to have to blame someone. Probably, I'm going to have to tell this woman that someone's head rolled for this. So she's like, Queenie fucked up Dina's dog, but it was an accident. But if I get rid of Queenie, Dina only does one dog a day. But if I get rid of Dina, I lose the prestige of the shop. Right. What do you think?

I think that you take firing off the table. Heads will roll. I get that in theory. Fancy lady understands money. You might be able to appease her by offering, We're only going to charge you for the perfect dog, which huge blow. And then you have to determine, though, who gets what tip and what payout from that day. And honestly, the best solution might just be, you know what? In honor of both of you keeping your jobs after being so unprofessional, Amber keeps the money. Amber keeps the money, sends them home. They come back, start fresh the next day. And that is the solution I propose.

Yes. Amber is like, both of you go home. I don't want you here when this fancy lady arrives and I will take care of it. The fancy lady shows up. Amber's like, Here are your dogs, aren't they? So beautiful. And the fancy lady is like, They are beautiful, but isn't that one a little bit smaller? And Amber is like, Is it?

Roll for Bluff, Amber. Roll for Bluff.

And the woman's like, I want the Little-er one for free.

There you go.

There you go. Amber is like, Okay. Sure. The Little-er one is now free. And the woman's like, Okay, thank you. But then she does that thing where she's like, Can I speak to the manager? I am the manager. Ambra is like, I am the manager. Then this woman lays into her and she's like, What are you going to do about this? This place is poorly run. Da da da da da. Amber is like, I'm so sorry, we'll do better next time. This woman leaves and then Amber calls the owner and she's like, I quit.

Yes. Take the money and run, Amber.

She's like, Goodbye. And she quits the Hound's Tooth Salon forever. We are at the end. How do you feel? Whose side are you on? Let's debrief.

I am clearly still on Amber's side. Amber has done nothing wrong in this entire story. Bless her for doing her best under difficult circumstances. And also, surprisingly, I am still on Savannah's side. I know. She's just there doing her job, putting in her hours. The fact that no one told her that you have to bring in your own product to use on these dogs is clearly someone's fault. Yes.

Do you want my final updates?

Of course.

I do. Okay. My final updates are... Amber did move on. She got a new job. She's doing fine. Great. Queenie, a couple of days after this incident, remembered very vaguely that the first week that Savannah started, she was like, Of course, you can use my products. No problem. Oh!

Wow, that 65-year-old memory really came back to bite her in the end.

Within the next two weeks, Queenie, Dina, and Savannah all quit.

The hound's tooth is toothless.

The hound's tooth closed. Wow. Because there were no employees left and no prestige.

Yeah, zero prestige. Oh, wow. The owner is out so much dog money. Yes.

And it's a shame that the hound's tooth salon doesn't exist anymore because the fancy lady's dog won.

Big head or small head? Small head. Big head or small head. Oh, one on a free hair color. Wow. Oh, my heart is racing right now. I am... I am... Wow. Wow. Every dog has its day, no matter the size of its fluffy head. Wow. I can't...

Aise, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a delight to have you.

Kelsey, the pleasure was all mine. I am so happy right now for everyone involved. Thank you.

For listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip@defector. Com, or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679, Gossip. If you love this podcast and want us to keep making it, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip. Com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok @normalgossip. You can follow Kelsey on all social media @mkinniel. C. This podcast was produced by Alex Su-Jong-Lawlin. Justin Ellis is the Defectors Projects Editor. Jasmine Wang and Sean Cun are Defecto's business guys. Tom Lay is our Editor-in-Chief. J. Told Viera is our Associate Producer. Abigail Segel is our intern. Dan Mcquade runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip. Store. Tara Jacobi designed our show art. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defecter Media is a collectively owned, subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney. I'm Emma, and remember, you did not hear this from me.

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