Novel. (phone ringing) (phone ringing) (phone ringing) (phone ringing) (phone ringing) (phone ringing) (distant wind) (distant wind) Your God. Odb been visiting me, God. You too? Odb been walking with me, G. You too? Yeah.

Welcome to the club. You've been walking with me.

(laughing) In 2019, nearly 15 years after ODB passed away, I called Papa Wood to tell him about visits that I was having from ODB. As this series comes to a close, I want to revisit this phone call and a few other moments on this journey. Over the years, I felt as if I was in ODB's presence a few times. Papa Wood or Freedom of the Law, as I knew him, he saw ODB and felt his presence everywhere.

That's that nigga, man. He wanted to let me know his presence that he was there, right? So, Dirty, do you have a way of putting this out on other people's bodies to let you know that he's.

His presence? He's in me right now calling you. Yeah. The truth is, it was never just us. Dirty's essence had been felt profoundly by so many. The brother's been gone a long time, but he endures so strongly even now. Dirty's loss was felt by his friends, his family, his fans, and the culture. It's an absence that some people are going to struggle with forever. But I know that some, like Papa Wolf, took strength from the survival of Dirty's spirit and power of his memory. Dirty was a brother who left a deep mark on the people that he touched and the world around him. When he was grabbing mics and storming stages 30 years ago, I'm not sure that God himself knew just how legendary he'd become. I want to understand why ODB is so unforgettable and why his presence is still so powerful. From USG Audio, Novel, and Talkhouse, this is ODB, a son unique. Episode eight, Sometimes the name makes a man. Papa will sometimes ask me to drive him to the Shinnecock Reservation that both he and dirty had blood ties to. One time after a trip out there, me and Papa Will began talking about the night that ODB passed.

It must have been difficult when the guard departed, man. Odb.

I was in my crib. We was having a baby shower for my son, Freedom. And his girl just had a baby and we was sitting there. And I got a call and said, Yo, man, your brother wild and out. They called me up and told me he's in the city wild and out. I said, What do you mean he's wild and out? One thing led to another. The next thing I got a call. Nobody never told me he passed away. They told me that he's wild and come get him and get him out of here. So when I got to the city, I came and walked in and seen my brother laying on the floor. You know what I'm saying? In the studio, the 36 Chambers, he's laying there stiff.

Odb collapsed at Wutang Studio, 36 Chambers, on the night of November 13th, 2004. He suffered a heart attack and was pronounced dead by paramedics when they arrived. It wasn't just Pop or Wolf who rushed to the studio. Raquan also got the call. Here he is speaking about that night on Vlad TV.

When I heard him cry my heart out, raced up to the studio, and he was dead, man. You know what I mean? But he had a smile on his face. He had a face of bravery. He's like, This is where I want to go right now, my nigger.

One of Dirty's names was OSIRIS, the Egyptian god of life, death, and the afterlife. Raquan, like Papa Wool, could see transcendence and Dirty that night. Word spread and ODB's family and other members of the clan came to studio. The sight of ODB at peace was hard to square with the suddenness of loss. Ramsey Jones, ODB's older brother, arrived later than most.

I got on the train, headed up to 30th Street in West Side Highway.

I walk in.

Front of this building and I see news trucks outside. And that's when it hit home for me. That he was gone. I just sat down looking with my head to the ground like a shark. My mother told me that she was there with my sister when my brother was lifeless on the couch and she held my brother's hand. She said all the men were crying. All the men in the studio were crying. Ghostface was there. He broke down, Breza, Muk. I just couldn't accept that he was like, gone. Because you see, he experienced so much during the time he was successful and he overcame it.

Odb's wake was at the historic black church, St. James Presbyterian in Harlem. Fans came, cousins, siblings, were feelings, friends, and collaborators said their goodbyes. Inside the church, at the foot of the altar, Dirty Laye opened casket in a crisp white suit with the scarlet tie.

When I got to the church and they had the ceremony, I just bald all night, man.

Do you remember anything poignant that stood out at his funeral? Any words? I know, Rizel spoke and a lot of people spoke.

Rizel spoke, but I was grieving so much that I shut everybody out. I was like, balling over him not being dead. I couldn't even really go into detail what eulogy people were giving or what words were being said. I was just stunned that he was dead and trying to come to grips of his passing.

During the eulogy, Rizel spoke about two of the names his cousin had embraced over the course of his life. Up on that podium in a crisp white suit, Rizel spoke about the power and wisdom that Eson had when he embodies that name. When he became Old dirty bastard, success followed, but it cost him the power that Asun Unique had. He changed his name to Old dirty bastard. That was the name that I gave him.

I asked him for.

Forgiveness for that. It's like some type of man makes.

The name, but.

Sometimes the name makes you. As he became older and faster, you became more successful, but yet he went further away from Ason to me. I love to hear Rizza talking about Ason that way because Rizza probably knew him more than anybody else in the world now. More than Iselin, more than Papa Wolf, more than any other gods, you know what I'm saying? Odb and Rizza are like the same person, just different aspects of the same person. Many of times I've watched that video in the past, and I always appreciate just hearing Rizza's take. It's real because what Riz is saying is sometimes a name makes a man, and Ason was his righteous name. That's when he came in the name of Allah. Odb, Old Dirty bastard was more of a persona. And that's where all the wild antics and all the wild shit came in. You know what I mean? When he manifested himself in that way. For Budle Monk, who had been at Dirty Side since the beginning, the funeral was incomprehensible.

The crushing part for me is when they start showing the videos because here it is for my first time in a church, they're playing hip hop music in a church, and they're playing. They're playing, shimmy shimmy. They're playing it. And as they're playing the beat, they're just showing little cuts of me and Dirty going back and forth on the stage. I broke down and start crying. The minute that video came up, that's all you can hear, was crying throughout the whole entire place. Mommy came back there and she was holding me. She was like, I know this is a lot for you. Everybody just sat with me because they knew that the dynamic duo just got hit. Batman is down. You know what I mean? After that funeral was over, I booked me a ticket to Europe and I stayed in Europe for like 10 years. It's horrent. I wanted to be on the outside looking in. I couldn't deal with it. I left. Right after the third day of dirty being gone, it hurt me so much. I had to just leave. I just booked a ticket and I went.

Buddha's grief would take time to heal. In a video shot on the day of the funeral, Papa Wolf was asked a few questions about the loss of Eitan. He was somber and reflective.

Yeah, man, where we come from, we ain't had nothing. We were kids that never had nothing, took nothing and made everything out of it. You know what I'm saying?

Took nothing and made everything out of it. In those few words from Papa Wolf, there are a thousand lessons and all you need to know about who ODB really was. But when I asked Papa Wolf about Dirty's death years later, he talked about Dirty's passing in a different way. For Papa Wolf, the God was still with us, not physically, but in a different form.

I'm the type of person I don't believe in death. When I see him laying there, it was hard for me to believe that just his body was still. But I can still see the life in him. He wasn't dead. He just couldn't move and talk to me. But I've never seen death. I've never seen death. Right to the day you can't get me to say, Dirty's dead, because I don't see no death in him.

This was a message Papa Wood would share with me often. He was at peace with Dirty's absence in this dimension because he felt dirty's presence in other ways. Papa Wood kept dirty with him at all times. I've taken that lesson on board too. It's got me through some tough times. In terms of the 5% nation's teachings, physical death is not the end of life. The way I see it is that death is an illusion. There is no death. Our concept of death comes from our identification with the transient. Our concept of death comes from our identification with the body, something that begins and ends. We look at it that when this physical body is exhausted, then we're dead. But this can't be farther from the truth. You see, what you are is mind. What you are is spirit. You know what I'm saying? You're not something that begins and ends. You're something that remains unchangeable as God created you eternally. Coming into this world is incarnating into a dream. Death, what we call death is really not anything final as an ending. It's more or less you waking back up to the reality of what you are.

The key is to live a life of forgiveness. Forgiveness means I see beyond illusions. The illusion of separation, the illusion of limitations. We think that there's something to do and to achieve, but in reality, all you need to do is forgive and let go and return back to reality, return home. What's up? That's the one coming right there. Right here? It's a whole dude? Yeah. Wow. What's going on, man? I'm trying to... Back in March, I brought my producer, Taylor, to Harlem to visit the Allah School, the headquarters of the 5% nation, the nation that would teach ODB that he was in fact a God. There's a huge space right there. But those teachers wouldn't fully prepare him for the challenges that he would eventually face. Harlem is very important to our history as black people in America. No matter what day it is, the spirit of our community is always present. We're live on the scene of . And then what we have to realize.

Today.

Everyone here in New York is that it's.

Possible only if you believe.

Amen. Amen. Amen. I'm proud of that. Have a good one. The school has been around since the '60s. It might look unassuming, but in the '70s, brothers would gather here and exchange the wisdom of black empowerment. This space not only shaped the young Russell Jones into ASON Unique, it also fueled a revolution in black music because Cyfus, rap battles, the slang, and so much of the building blocks to hip hop came out of the school here.

What's a particular memory you.

Have of your time.

Together in this space.

And building with him or just-.

Oh, man, see.

Ason, it's.

All.

Memories. Every day was outstanding with him.

This is Darkem. He's an emcee and a five percenter. Darkem spent time with Ason at the A law school and knew him through music circles. Like so many, Jerry's memory was a blessing to him. These days, he's like an elder.

Every time you see him, it's a box of chocolates. Probably that right there, that I would say that you.

Is a sincere.

Five.

Percent. The law school has a power when you're there. As we talked, my mom went back to the countless stops that I've made there. I feel at peace here that I rarely feel anywhere else.

When you get this knowledge, we.

Don't.

Believe that any outside forces is going to impact what happens.

This is a central teaching among the 5% is that every God is in control of his own life, that every God must manifest his own destiny. When I gained knowledge of self, it helped me to understand who I truly am as an unlimited person. I also think this gave dirty the power to realize his purpose as an emcee. But for some, that power came with the downside.

It provided a mechanism that allowed him to catch his breath. The downside is it ultimately cost him life.

This is Dr. Anthony Penn. He's an expert on black religion in America from Rice University.

I think it's a.

Greater dilemma for five percenters.

Than it.

Would be for folks who.

Claim.

Christianity or claim Sunni Islam, in which there is this community in which vulnerability is.

Understood.

Embraced.

And worked through.

Why? Because there is something.

Bigger and.

Better than you.

That is ultimately in control. But if.

You're a God, to whom do you turn? Maybe this is why Dirty struggled sometimes. Being a 5% gives you the license to go out there and build. Dirty did that. I mean, he kept planets in orbit. But the nation was born in a racist society that tells black men that they're less than. The 5% nation's teachings were in part an effort to put some power into the hands of young black men to define their lives for themselves. I can speak to the power of that message and the salvation it offered. Manifesting your own universe in a hostile system works up to a point. But what it doesn't do is erase the laws and institutions that work against men like dirty. Even as a 5%er, you could still have struggles or weaknesses. When the wheels come off, there's nowhere to hide. It's up to you. So when things go wrong, it can be a lonely place to be. Jody's lawyer, Peter Frankl, was with him in some of his most vulnerable moments.

There were times where he wouldn't go out of the house, where he was terrified. A young guy who was incredibly successful, was one of a kind had his best days ahead of him. There'll never be anybody like him again. But the amount of pressure that was placed on him by the public, by law enforcement, by labels, by everyone that wanted something from him. I'm telling you, it was overwhelming. And he expressed that. He expressed that multiple times. He just wanted to be left alone a lot of the time.

He fulfilled the promise to his best friend, voodoo Monk, that he was going to be somebody. But that wasn't enough to relieve Dirty from the insecurity that so many black people live with every day in this country. Dirty was naturally a wild brother. It's even harder to contain a guy like that when they're one of the gods.

How can I say this? The white media doesn't always understand the complexities of being a black man in America. As a white man, I don't really understand it the way a black man does.

That's Dante Ross, ODB's ANR friend.

When I first started working with him, as wild as he was, he still had Papa woo around. He had Iselin, he had his kids. His foundation was much more formidable. As he got more famous, those things dissipated. There was other people around to him and drug suck. I'll leave it at that.

Durdy's fame came because he was uncontrollable, but that unpredictable creative energy also isolated him from the foundation that held him down. In March of this year, I returned to BedStuy, Franklin and Putnam Avenue with my producer, Taylor, and O. D. B's biographer, Jamie Love.

I think it was like, I don't know. Six months ago?

Not that it was six months ago. It's here in Brooklyn that dirty's memory is more closely held onto than anywhere else. Wait, I'm sorry. What's this place?

It's a restaurant that replaced the bodega that he used to go to.

Dirty's music plays in the bodegas and at street parties. You see dirty on posters. You hear him quoted in conversation. The people here love him and remember him because he put a spotlight on them, betrayed them as they see themselves. This always.

Makes me really sad to think about him. A lot.

Has changed since the Jones family black parties of the '70s. But passing through the corner today where Russell found his voice, you'll see that Brooklyn hasn't forgotten its beloved son. I used to be over here with Papa Wood back in the day and Uncle Freddie and all of them. They're on the corner of Putnam and Franklin. Just a few blocks from where he grew up is a mural commemorating Dirty. It's a callback to his famous welfare card album cover, and it dominates the streetscape. There's a real innocence in the way the artist captured his eyes and expression.

It's been here for a long time.

They even redid it because at some point somebody vandalized it. I remember they redid his face. I'm not supposed to disrespect ODB. Thank you so much for bringing it to me. This is a good walk. Jamie spent a lot of time thinking about what exactly it was that made people so drawn to Dirty.

He was so deeply talented. He produced some of the greatest songs in hip hop, and I think that he wanted to represent all of the different layers of who he was and those names did.

What qualities of his music or his artistry made him singular and distinct within the major label rap landscape?

Well, let me ask you a question. Have you before or since ever heard anyone who sounds like ODB?

Never. Yeah. Totally unique. And that's his.

Name, Ason Unique. Yeah, you could never hear anything. Immediately, when you hear his voice, you know exactly that it's him. I'm not completely convinced that there's another person you can say that about. His voice, his guttural quality to the way he sounds, it was like natural. I felt like one of the reasons that audience is really connected with him specifically is because he was so relatable and authentic and true to where he came from and what he represented.

I think in the pantheon of hip hop, Old Dirty bastard will be regarded as one of the most original MCs to ever do it, one of the most creative, one of the most innovative, and also one of the freest spirits as a human being.

That's music critic, Skiz Fernando.

I don't think many of us have encountered a figure like that in our lives. Someone who could be so free. None of us on this planet are free. We're all slaves in some way, whether it's slave to the dollar or slave to an ideology. Ason Unique was completely free, and everyone could see that. That's why I think he had so many fans.

Cody wasn't beholden to anybody. It's the reason why he's still in the culture.

Wutang was dangerous on some level, and Dirty was dangerous. As comical as he was, shit could happen. He touched the nerve with a lot of people.

Dante witnessed up close how ODB changed hip hop.

What's crazy about Dirty is the young rappers, the new kids, they all want to know about him the most. He's the most intriguing.

When ODB passed, Wutang lost the leader, a brother, and the glue that bound them together. Dirty had been a pillar of the clan since the beginning. When it was just him, Rizza, and Gizza honing their sound. And that spirit remains with members of the clan after his death. In '09, five years after ODB died, Rayquan released the song Aeson Jones on the sequel to his classic solo debut, Only Built for Cuban Links Part Two.

It came about because my relationship with him. Nobody asked me to make that song. That was a song that I wanted to make because of my relationship personally with him. That song, that beat, was produced by Jay Dillon. I don't even do that song at shows because it's so.

Personal to me.

But to have one of the greatest producers and then one of the greatest brothers and a friend of mine, an artist, whatever you want to call him, that record I spoke from the heart, I try to keep it real. He's a powerful general. He's a general to me. This is a smell from his breath was Ballenty. He was a powerful general. The smell from his breath was Ballenty. I think it was the year '89, he stayed the freshest.

To me, what Ray Court in those verses is what we've been trying to convey in this series. Dirty had multitudes. He was fun, a leader, wild but grounded, wise and lighthearted. Years later, Rayquan's song only had to touch on a handful of personal moments. I'm here to show what Dirty meant to everyone.

We're 18 years in the ground, soon to be 19. I still pushed the Brooklyn Zoo. I'm still pushing for the artist and making sure people listen and remember his songs and remember him. I want to make sure that the world know and understand. He was never confused about his music. He was never confused about his life. The only thing he was confused on how much he could let his people down out there who.

Believed in O-D-B.

What's up? I'm on the show, sir.

-ramsey, how's it going? -hey, man. How's it going? How's it going? How's it going? How's it going? How's it going? How's it going? Nice to meet you, man. Pleasure. Pleasure, Colleague. Nice to.

Meet you, Taylor.

Taylor, yeah, come in, guys. Doug's brother, Ramsey welcomed Taylor and I into his queen's home on a cold Monday afternoon back in March of 2023. Oh, my gosh. Inside, Ramsey was tending to a batch of jerk chicken that his wife was preparing for a retirement party. This is the first interview ever done where there's been -What? -amazing jerk chicken. -it's a good thing. -it's a good thing. -it's a good thing. -ramsey is a warm soul with a deep respect for our history. The Jones family aura was definitely coming off of him. I can imagine this was the atmosphere that made dirty love by so many people. -amazing. -yeah. -yeah.

-my sister, my sister.

I told you it wasn't too hot. All these years later, we're still talking about him. We're still exploring his legacy.

He was a free spirit. That's all I can say. He loved entertaining people and just the life of the party like Uncle Freddie was, and he encapsulated that even on stage. He made a major contribution to hip hop. I'm proud that he left a legacy. I'm proud that people love him all over the world. He will always be my brother, Russell Jones. That's how I remember him as very fun loving, sweet, funny as hell. He was beautiful. He was a beautiful cat. Like to this day, all the years that we've been playing with Jizza and the many fans have come up to me and says, Your brother's music changed my life. To hear that, it's.

Like, Wow. Yo, Mr. Ramsey Jones, we just want to appreciate you and say thank you, brother, for.

Having us man. I want to thank you for giving me the time to talk about my brother's legacy and history. Thank you both. Thank you.

Personally, I think Dirty was enlightened. Like, ODB is going to be considered crazy by a lot of people because he didn't take this life so seriously. Most of the time you saw him, he was joyous. And being that he wasn't afraid, he was free. Most people color within the lines because they're afraid of judgment. He didn't have any fear of judgment, probably because he wasn't so judgmental himself. Because he wasn't projecting judgment, he didn't feel limited by it. Sometimes I feel like ODB. I know he's with me. When I listen to old conversations I had with Papa Wolf, I remember something powerful that he told me.

He ain't the party. Dirty is sitting right here with you. Dirty is asking me these questions right now, not you. You know what I'm saying? That's how I see him because I see him through you. So when I'm sitting next to you, you ask me questions like that, see? He never departed because he never went nowhere. Because he's right here with you and me. Every time I talk, I see a flashy of him sitting here. Me and him sitting back here talking, and he came back to you. That's why he never went nowhere. Because he's sitting right here in this lot with us right now. That's what's giving us the power to do it. You know how I know, though? Look at the sunshine over our head. So bright. World. You know what I'm saying? That's how deep it is. It was.

2019 when we lost and it's been hard to process his loss. But the lessons he left have helped me to deal with his absence. His conviction that dirty hadn't left at all was unshakable. He saw dirty in the weather and he felt him in the energy of a room. He saw dirty in me and his belief never faulted. Papa will always took time to build with young brothers and dirty was the same. He always took time to speak the truth to the young black youth. That's what I try to do now to continue that tradition of speaking out and speaking to. As an artist, I always considered myself a visual emcee. In my photography and my films, I never shy away from capturing the greedy and harsh reality of life in my own city. My pictures try to capture the beauty and the people that are often looked down on. This is what Dirty did with his art. The way he wrote rimes and spat bars, that's what I'm doing with my eye. Dirty knew he was special. It was others who doubted him. When you hear him speak, there's a confidence that's not boastful, but has conviction.

It's the spirit of a leader and the Prophet.

We're dirty here to entertain for you all. Yeah, hell yeah, I enjoy entertainment. It's like being free to me. I stand out like a shiny star.

Odb didn't live in fear of failure, of conforming, of anything. Maybe that's what the God, Eson Unique, is trying to remind me to remind us all. Odb, a son unique, is produced by Novel and Talkhouse for USG Audio. The series is hosted by me, Kali Kala. The series was written by Taylor Jones and Muhammad Ahmed. The producer was Taylor Jones with additional production from Muhammad Ahmed. Production support from Lee Meyer. Our researcher is Zeyana Youssef. Our editor is Veronica Simmons. Our executive producers are Georgia Moody, and Max O'Brien for novel, Josh Block for USG Audio and Ian Wheeler for Talk House. Production support for USG Audio by Josh Laulangi. Production management from Cherie Huston in Charlotte Wolf. Now, our fact checker is Dania Suleiman. Willard Foxden is creative director of development. Sound design and mixing by Daniel Kempson. Location and studio recordings by Michael Jeno. Original music composed by Tom Young. Special thanks to Sean Glenn. This is the USG audio podcast. For more information or to check out our other podcasts, go to usgaudio. Com. For more from Novel, visit novel. Audio. Novel.