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Hey, podcast listeners, some of you may know that Oprah began having conversations about the deeper meaning of life in the world around us, even in the early days of the Oprah show.

When you look inward, then you can begin to create another kind of power because we know you love a super soul style discussion.

I went, oh, we opened up the vault of the Oprah Winfrey Show to handpick episodes that will enhance the Super Soul podcast library.

Every experience in our lives is to teach us to learn to love.

Please enjoy this past episode of The Oprah Winfrey Show on Super Cell Conversations. We did a show called My Life is Driving Me Crazy, and we talked on that show with Marianne Williamson, author of the book A Return to Love, we received more mail from that show than any other show we've done. And some of the letters we received said that that show and the book were very inspiring. But they raised a lot of questions because the idea of living your life with total inner peace, which is what the book espouses, no matter what happens, is admittedly easier said than done.

So we decided to take this woman's suggestion. She writes, We had Marianne Williamson on your show talking about her new book, A Return to Love. That show truly impacted my life in my situation. And once I read the book, all I think about is now how can I change my life and situation by following the purpose? Interpeace I'm 33 years old and married. My husband and I have four children. My husband is unemployed due to a back injury that he received while working.

And since that time he's not been able to find employment. I'm the only one working, trying to make ends meet. I go to church. I truly believe in God. It seems that the more I try to rely on God and things to work out, it seems as though they get worse. It's starting to look like separation and welfare. Our only choice. Maybe there is a possibility you could have Marianne back on your show. Marianne Williamson is here to join us to answer specific questions about her book, which says, Inner peace is our goal.

You know, I have been believing and the principles espoused in Marianne's book, which are really basically the same thing that the Bible has said for many years, as long as the Bible has been in existence, and that is love is the way. The interesting thing for me was reading Marianne's book, I relearned a lot of things and became so clear about so many others. Well, Liz says that her divorce was about fighting and anger before she decided to end the conflict with a change in her attitude.

And Georgia, this is the most amazing story, says she's found inner peace even though she was raped by two men one day and the very next day, her baby daughter drowned in the bathtub. You know, it's very easy when your life is going well and everybody's smiling at you to have faith. But true faith is knowing, I think, that your life is going to be all right no matter what, because we are here for a spiritual purpose and not just for our physical existence, though most of us get caught up in the physical day to day.

And I think you coming to some terms with with what has happened in your life is you are a lesson for all of us.

How how did that happen? Well, it was hard. My life was like a nightmare after it happened. I didn't know what to do. I just was like disintegrating. And my husband and I nearly broke up. We were a lot of fighting and then to the point of not talking and then he said he wanted to divorce and then a miracle happened. I got pregnant again and it was pretty bad for the first few months because we were still fighting and everybody was angry and hated ourselves.

But how do you find inner peace when you lost a child? Well. I know that she's in heaven, I know God's keeping her there, and if I didn't get some inner peace for me, I wasn't going to be able to go where she is and see her, you know, for eternity. It's hard because I have tremendous guilt also, but changing your belief and changing your perception has helped you. Oh, definitely have done the same for you.

Definitely not.

A change of perception has just opened up all the doors and everything clicked when I changed my perception.

That's what Marianne describes in the book as what a real miracle is. Most of us think that it's turning the water into wine, which also is a miracle, if you can do that.

But it's walking through your life every day and being able to look at your life differently and being able to see things from a different perspective, changing the way you think about a situation. So how is that changed for you? Everything just clicked into place. I learned how to turn it over to God. I always believe that things happen for a reason and I was able to turn it over to him and to eliminate my anger and to forgive me.

But isn't that hard, though, because I'm still practicing, surrendering, you know, surrendering. And when we say God, I think it's important for us to note that we include all religions, because I think that there are many paths to God. You don't have to be Christian.

You don't have to be Jewish. You don't have to be Muslim. But when we say God, we mean love and that God is loving of all people.

And so if you choose to take a Christian path or Jewish path or another kind of path that getting there is is is what's important.

So religion alone never clicked with me. I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic schools, I read the Bible, I went to 12 step programs. I tried to learn how to get it and how to surrender to God. And after reading the book and just thinking in terms of believing in love and to be able to reach out to everyone in love just to feel that peace, to surrender really changed it for me, I was able to just give up so much not to control, not to try to change and just to allow God to come to me.

It's hard to surrender sometimes because there are lots of times when I say, God, you take this over, but then I'll pick it up and try to handle it myself.

That's the hardest part. As I said before, it is much easier to say return to love and the world will be healed than it is to actually achieve that state. But I believe that the reason we're all here on the planet Earth is just that. I believe that in the deepest part of myself that we're all here and that every experience in our lives is to teach us to learn to love. That is exactly what the book A Return to Love is all about.

The author of that book, Marianne Williamson, is back with us to answer some specific questions about what we mean when we say the only thing that's wrong with the world is that we have forgotten how to love Marianne. It's great to see you.

It's great to see. You know, one of the letters and we received some wonderful letters and I've said that there's more response to this show than any show we've ever done. And I think one of the reasons for that is, is that people understand what you say in the book that the world is in need of healing. God sent help. He sent us, I think, somewhere on a deeper level. We all understand that if it's going to change, it has to begin with each one of us.

Absolutely. You could have actually called the book Interpeace, could you not?

And of course, in Miracles, it says that the goal of the course is the attainment of inner peace. I think a lot of us think if the world changes in this way, this way or this way, then I'll be at peace. If the money comes, if the job comes off, whatever, then I'll be at peace. But really, when we find peace, then those things have an easier time happening. We can go straight to peace to the idea that peace of mind is not circumstance dependent.

There are people whose lives look to you and me perfect. And they're tortured inside. And there are people who have very, very difficult personal circumstances, who have a lot of inner peace.

That's a good thing to say and not to be tortured inside because you can attain all the things and still feel like, OK, you got in the microwave and you got the car. And listen, you got the wall-to-wall cabinet, you've got new carpeting and you still something's going on.

You know, I work with a lot of people who are ill with diseases like AIDS and cancer. And I often say to people in these groups, I say, you know, it seems to you when you say HIV positive that a healthy body would be a source of such happiness. But obviously, a healthy body isn't the source of happiness, because look at all the people with healthy bodies who are not happy is, of course, a miracle. Says peace of mind is clearly an internal matter.

Internal matter.

A friend is someone that can still help you even when they can't be there in person, like with a friendly new Bank of Ireland third level current account. With it, you get a debit card that's being sourced and actually made from 82 percent corn. How cool is that? And you can also partnered up with your phone to use apple pay to buy things. Even if you don't have your card in you, you can apply for your friendly new third level current account in just six minutes.

Bank of Ireland dotcom forward slash student terms conditions apply. Bank of Ireland is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.

Joyce is the one who wrote us that long letter and asked us to have you back. Marianne, you had some things you wanted to say, OK, in reading your book.

I mean, it truly inspired me to to change, to want change in my life and to know that there is a purpose.

But as I said in my letter, it seems, is the more that I think I'm doing right or whatever, it still keeps going wrong. How can I or what advice would you have to say for me to be able to put your book in perspective and say, OK, fine, Joyce, it's time to change, regardless of what the situations are or the circumstances.

I read your letter. You are the lady. Yes. Who has the four children and the husband with the back injury. And he wants so much to find work and he can't. And he's willing to sign an affidavit that said if his back was hurt on the job, he wouldn't sue. But still, no one will give him a job. And you've got four kids and you're one person working and you're having a real difficult time making ends meet.

And I'm sure your husband also you have to deal with the depression. He must feel that on top of the fact you're having such a hard time keeping it together economically, how he must feel not being able to work, not being able to be the provider. Right. I was very touched by your letter, as was. Oh, OK. What do you need? What does this lady need? She needs a miracle. Absolutely. She needs a miracle.

Now, this is what the issue is. And of course, in miracles, it says moving mountains is small compared to what you can do. The real issue here is a matter of faith and believe for everybody in this room and everybody watching watching the show. Do we or do we not believe that there is a power greater than the power of this world? This is really what the issue is. We have faith in this back injury of your of your husbands.

We have faith in a recession, which makes it difficult for a lot of people to get work even when they don't have physical injury. We have faith and the fact that there is only limited resource, you only have so much money and for kids to feed, plus you and your husband, we have faith in the limitation and the negativity of this world. What we need is to withdraw our faith from the negativity and finite belief system of this world and to instead open ourselves to the faith that God has the power to break through this limitation, to break through this negativity, to open up so that there are infinite possibilities as opposed to the finite possibilities that we see now.

We now join our minds with yours and we say, now, wait a minute, we know that there are billions of people on this planet who believe in finite resources. We know there are billions of people on this planet who believe back injury. You know, what can we do? But we don't believe or do we? You and I choose not to believe in this moment, as in a God. Do we believe in a God is looking at choice and saying love to help you, but God is backcourts.

What can I do? My hands are tied. Right? Do we? I do not believe in a God whose hands are tied. So what I'd like to do. If it's OK with you and ask anybody in this room we feel comfortable with it is that we join our minds in this. Joining of mind is called prayer. And what we want to pray for here is a miracle. We want to take this moment and ask for a breakthrough.

Can we do that? Do they do it? Dear God. We know that in the ways of the world. Joyce and her husband, Myron, are suffering, as many others do. They are held back and they are limited. Her husband is hurt, he is injured, he cannot work, he cannot find work. The children need to be fed, et cetera. We know that, you know, every aspect of their situation and now we witness.

As the arms of God are placed around Joyce and her husband, Myron, and all of their children and each of us witness in our own way. To some of us, this presence appears as the face of Jesus, but not all of us. And we now see this power of God, which lies beyond the power of this world, so embrace Joyce and Myron. We invite God's spirit into the situation to lift it up and out, may she and Myron now rise above and beyond all dimensions of despair, may the power of God be a love that casts out fear.

May the power of God be a peace here which casts out or pain. May the power of God be the light which casts out all darkness. May the Holy Spirit now enter here completely reverse and transform this situation. From one of darkness to light. In our minds at this moment, we hold to this possibility and to this absolute guarantee that it is the will of God that joy be found here, that all tears be wiped away and we join in knowing that the will of God has never not been done.

Thank you very much. Together, we all say. Amen. You wanted to say what, hi, Marianne. My question was I read the book and it's wonderful and thank you for writing it, but it's a part of a book where you talk. There's really no different love. That love is the same for everyone. I love that part. There's no love for difference between a mother and daughter or a husband or wife. And I think the relationships I don't know if it purposely makes the love of difference the right word.

The intensity is a little different because I can honestly say I, I can't love everyone. And I tried to do that. But my love for my mother is different because our relationship has formed.

Of course, that's the difference between content and form. And of course, in miracles, it says that there is no love but God that love itself in love itself. There is no difference. But the form that love takes obviously is different. So I don't think there's anything in my book or in the course that disagrees with you. I mean, there were people that Jesus himself had a closer, more intense relationship with than others.

You understand that my friend Tracey pointed it out. That's the only part of the book we had a little disagreement on.

And he pointed out to me, that's platonic love, the sexual organs, but the content of the love, the love itself. So many people ruined their lives. You know, I wouldn't have a show if people weren't in special love relationships. Well, yes, we just celebrated by celebrating a set. But so many people have that they think that they have to find Mr. or Mrs. Right in order to find love. When the truth of the matter is you encounter 100 people every day you could give love to.

So let's talk about the special relationship and how that hangs people up.

Well, you know, one of the interesting things is if we think that the real love experience it's important is this one special love, then what it means is that we fail to take the opportunities that we're given to receive and give love all throughout the day. Right. One of the things I talk about in my book is if you're mean all day, you know, you just don't care about people. You're not giving to people, you're not loving to people.

And then you have a date at eight o'clock at night with this person that you care so much about. So all of a sudden you're going to turn into an angel because you want to impress this person. You want to give love and receive love in this person. When you've thrown change at the counter, cursed out the toll booth operator, totally been mean to the bank teller, cursed everybody out all the way to work, cut off the people in traffic, and then you're going to get pretty depleted.

Your system is depleted because you denied yourself your daily bread. So then it's real difficult. You know, there's bleed through. People can smell it when somebody isn't really coming from that place. And I think the most attractive thing in an intimate relationship is the same thing. That's the most attractive thing ultimately in any relationship. And that's that we seem like our own life is a space for love. Love is given in love is received.

You know, when you were here before, people were saying, well, what do you mean by love? And even my best friend Gayle is said, does she mean love all the time? Because I can love some people, but can you just love all the time? I think it's very important to be clear.

And one of the things Marianne says in the book is that one of the prayers you give, I think it's on page 57 or 55 about, dear God, I choose inner peace, that what you're trying to do doesn't mean you're going around embracing everybody Scooby Doo doo dah day unless that's what you want to do, but that in every situation you choose inner peace, that you ask for inner peace, you want the cars, the houses and all that, but you don't want it unless you're going to be peaceful once you get in the house.

Well, with a course in Miracles teaches us is that love is real and nothing else truly exists. It's the love in life which is real, and that love is always available regardless of what is appearing to happen on the Earth plane. I think that's what Clarence was was talking about. I think that that's what's relevant for Joyce with her husband. The idea that there is love in this situation, there is love in this room, and that when we know this, we settle down into a greater peace.

We look around this room and we say, OK, the reality here is that there are all these different bodies and all these different people and everybody here has a different story. And I don't know who these people are and I don't know if they like me, where do I fit in and what's really going on here. And, my God, what am I going to really do with my life that produces a kind of tension? And yet that tension is what runs most of this moment by moment, day by day.

Then there's a completely different way of looking at it. And that is the thought that there's really only one reality in this room, really. All of us are exactly the same. And if you go deep down enough into every person in this room, the reality inside of us is our love that inside Oprah Winfrey is just a lot of love. And inside Marianne Williamson is a lot of love and inside Joyce is a lot of love. And inside Clarence, there's a lot of love.

And inside Elliot, there's a lot of love. And you just kind of go around the room and you say the reality of that lady is not her purple shirt or where she's been or what she's doing, her mistakes, her achievements. But what's real about her is all this love she feels in her heart. All right. So we have all this love. Why is it so hard to let it come through all the time? Well, first of all, the thought system, what I just said is radically different from the thought system of this world.

How much of the stimulus of the world in which we live? Talks about everybody's reality being love and all of us pick up on a daily basis, moment by moment and do from the time we're small children, all of this thinking, which is everything but love, that you got to do a certain thing to be worthy. And people are not their love. They're their mistakes. They're their guilt, and they're only enough resources. There is not infinite love.

So all of us are in a state like this and through spiritual practice. And there are many different forms of practice. We unlearn that thought system. And it's just like in the Bible when it says, I used to see us through a glass darkly. I used to see us through a glass darkly. I mean, I used to think that woman was her dress and I used to think that man was his resume. And I used to think that that woman was her mistakes.

I saw through a glass darkly. Now, the scales have been taken from in front of my eyes and I see face to face. So Richards wrote me that on your broadcast with Marianne Williamson, you said, I believe everything happens for a reason, even horrible things will please hear my story and see if you can find the reason. Since I've searched in vain for nearly two years in hopes of finding one the day before my schedule wedding to my fiance, David Wegelin, I buried him.

My fiancee, the best man, the usher and three other male friends were returning on a small private plane from a pre wedding celebration when their chartered Cessna 210 disappeared from radar. Sadly, here I am, one and a half years after this tragedy, struggling to pay the mortgage on a house I'm reluctant to part with, since doing so seems too close to parting with the memories that we shared here. I miss my life as it was. I can do nothing to bring back my love except think of what could have been.

And sometimes the loneliness, the anger is more than I can comfortably endure. And she asks, what is the reason for this horrible happening? This is Sue Richards. Have you have answers for yourself?

Well, reading the book helps, but I'm not at that inner peace place. I still feel picked on by God because I did a lot of the things that you said. I've always taken responsibility for myself. I've always been a good person, always done the right thing. I always had a lot of faith. That's why at that point when that happened, my life was perfect. I had never been more perfect and I was grateful. And when it happened, I didn't know why.

I still don't know why.

Marion, the perspective that I deal with and I. Talk often to people who have things happen in their lives which seem so unexplainable. In worldly terms, you experience a great tragedy, and obviously many people do. I think the question is less why did this happen and more, what do I do with this now that it did? I read your letter was Oprah showed it to me. I was very moved by this was she you talk a lot in the letter about the experiences of other people in the aftermath of the airplane crash, how you came together, how you bonded, how you held each other up, how you supported one another.

And you talked about how you're different as people now. And you yourself used in the letter the word resurrection. And you said that there has been a resurrection of sorts in who you are. Obviously, faith does not mean that your fiancee will come back in physical form while you live on this earth. Faith does say that he lives that although the body can be destroyed, the son of God cannot be. Faith does tell us that he is still here with you and will be with you always.

There was a woman who came to my lectures whose husband died and she asked me to officiate at the service and she said there was a woman named Terry who used to sing at my lectures and she said Jack would die just to love it. When Terry sang, do you think Terry would be willing to sing at the service? I told her about this and she said, Oh, sure. Tell me the story. And I told her about this marriage between these two people, Jack and me, and how much they loved each other and the jack.

It suddenly died. And Terry wrote a song in the lyrics of the song where DARlAN There are many ways to see. And it was like Jack talking to me and he said, You're not going to see me walking up the driveway anymore and you're not going to see me making coffee in the kitchen anymore. But darling, there are many ways to see. Do you know, I heard an interview once with Yoko Ono, it wasn't her. I read it.

And in this interview, the journalist said to Yoko Ono, It must be terrible for you losing John Lennon because you used to spend 95 percent of your time together. And she said, oh, now we spend one hundred percent of our time together. Glory Glory was in our audience. Marianne was here, I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and I was always a person that worked like seven days a week. And I was told now that I have to work like a normal 40 hours a week.

I have a son and I have this new husband, and I'm just having a real hard time adjusting to that. I can't do everything and be there for everyone to tell you something.

A woman who has a husband and a child and works too many hours is not strong. She is weak. Mm hmm. And when she said that to you, you felt what?

Well, at first I thought, well, how could you just go and change your life right away? And I thought, well, she was right. But, you know, it takes a long time for you to come to terms that this is what you have to do.

I went out and got the book and I read it and I thought, well, this is really wonderful, but how do you just go and change your life? Well, I started getting more stressed out with everything at work and trying to juggle and do everything at once. And I'm in the flower business. And it was the week of Mother's Day, the Thursday before Mother's Day. I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I live above the business and I went upstairs to my room and I just started crying and I felt like a tornado hit world.

And I was against a wall and I was a puppet to everything in my life. I had no control over anything and I was so bad. I called the crisis hotline just to talk to somebody and they said to me, Do you believe in God or higher power? And I said, Yes, I did. He said, Well, I suggest that you sit down and pray as hard as you can. I said, well, I'm not suicidal or anything, but I really don't know what I'm doing anymore.

So I got off the phone and I just remember sitting there and praying to God and say, God, I can't do it anymore. I need you. I need you more than ever. Don't don't desert me. I need you. And then all of a sudden, I called my husband up at work and said, it's it. I quit working. It's over, I can't do it anymore. And my husband said, that's it. We're moving out tonight from the flower shop.

We're getting an apartment. That's it. That afternoon, my friends came and helped me move. I never saw the apartment till we were halfway moved in there. I have the best apartment in the whole building and the whole complex. I have a pool. I have a pond where my son could fish. And now I am a mother at home raising my son and taking care of myself and my husband.

Wow. So. What did you mean, Mary, and what did you mean when you said you're not strong, you're weak? What did you mean? Well, men and women have to work a certain number of hours a day, and that's not what I was speaking of. But I was speaking of the fact that and I say this is a woman who works myself and as a mother myself, I do think that in this country and I hope that I'm not misunderstood by this because I am a political liberal, but I do think that something terrible has happened in this country.

Sometimes we act like it's more valid or more meaningful work for a woman to go out in the world rather than the meaning and the true value, the most valuable things for the planet, I think, which has to do with the love we give our children, the love we give our husbands, the love we give ourselves. So you had a miracle?

I had a miracle. And I do want to say I probably never be rich. You never drive the BMW less.

Maybe you could. But you know what? I will never forfeit the love that I have now for myself, my husband, my son and my family.

And I think there's nothing better than that. And I think that there's a relationship between the recession and the terrible economic and social problems that we have in this world and the fact that there not enough love in the home because love and a home, love in a family, whether it be a traditional model of family or not, is what gives us our personal human juice to then go out into the world. So if we're trying to work so hard to make ends meet and then we don't have any family life, it really works the other way around.

We have family lives where the traditional models are not in order to give us the adrenaline to go out and really make things happen in the world.

A lot of your book is based on Christian thought. What would you say to a person who doesn't necessarily believe that Jesus is the son of God or doesn't necessarily believe in the Holy Spirit? How could they apply your thought into their life?

Well, I know in the philosophy that I am interested in, no one is trying to get us to believe in Jesus. It's trying to get us to believe in one another. And for those of us who do take Jesus seriously, we come to understand that to believe in one another is to believe in him, to believe in him without believing in people, to think we're good to him. What we're judging other people is total blasphemy and God is not mocked.

So the belief in people, goodness to people, forgiveness of people is the message of God. And Jesus is one of his messengers. A course of miracles, for instance, which is the philosophy that my book is based on. Although it uses Christian terms, it uses them in decidedly nontraditional ways. Students of this kind of philosophy come from all religions and no religions. There are many, many paths to God. Jesus, I believe, is a door, but I don't believe he's the only one.

I'm so glad to be here. This is the best day I've had in years. I've had six total hip replacements done and I became Mr. Man to this. My wife works. I don't see people too often. I don't go out. So this is a miracle for me to be here. But I can tell you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank. I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast you can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple podcast and subscribe rate and review this podcast. Join me next week for another super soul conversation. Thank you for listening.