Hey, pardon my take, listeners. You can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

What if the golf ball you're playing isn't the number one ball for you? Meet the all new TP five and TP Five X from Tailormade. Whether you prefer the softest five layer.

Tour ball in the TP five or the fastest, that's now a half a.

Club longer in TP five X, you'll be playing a golf ball that performs like it was built just for you. Available in white, yellow, and picks, you.

Can personalize it with my symbol.

No matter which you choose, every TP five, TP five X is designed to help your game head to tailormadegolf.com today.

To find the number one ball for you.

For us, golf is simple. It's a chance to get out and have some fun with our friends. But inevitably, little things have a way of ruining it. The group ahead is taking forever. You can't find the fairway with a map, and the Bev cart is nowhere to be found. And the best way to make a bad day better is fireball whiskey. You get their nips, the little shooters. They are great. Makes bad day way, way, way better. Make sure to grab the new Fireball birdie shot club. It's literally a golf club filled with fireball nip. Put it in your bag, it'll fit right in that side pocket. Drink fireball nips and have a great time on the golf course on today's part. In my take, we have a three for for the people. We're going to finish our draft coverage with Daniel Jeremiah and Field Yates. And we have our good friend Kirk Goldsberry on to talk specifically about Monday night in the NBA. We're going to have him on to talk some more NBA playoffs when he's in Chicago in a couple of weeks. We're going to talk about everything that happened Monday night.

We're going to talk about everything that happened Tuesday night. Max is going through the five stages of grief. We have hot seat, cool throne. We have guys on chicks. It's a great show and it's all brought to you by our friends at draftkings. The 82 game preseason is in the books and it's finally time for the real season. Don't miss out on any of the NBA playoff action at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. From the play in tournament through the finals, from every opening tip to every buzzer beater, DraftKings sportsbook has you covered with same game parlays, live betting, odds boost, and so much more. And if you're new to this whole sports betting thing, it's super easy to get started. Try betting on something simple like a team. To win, go to the app, select your team, place your first bet. It's that simple. The Celtics are 14 point favorites on Wednesday night. Go bet on them now. And here's something else to sweeten the deal for all new customers, bet dollar five get get $200 in bonus bets. Instantly. New customers download the DraftKings sportsbook app. Use code take that's code take to get $200 in bonus bets.

When you bet just $5 only on DraftKings, the crown is yours.

Gambling problem, call 1800 GaMbler or in West Virginia, visit 1800 gambler.net. In New York, call 8778 Hopeny or text hopeny 467369. In Connecticut, help is available. For problem gambling, call 888-78-9777 or visit ccpg.org dot. Please play responsibly on behalf of boot casino and resort in Kansas, 21 and over.

Age varies by jurisdiction.

Void in Ontario, bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng dot co bball for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms and responsible gaming resources.

Okay, let's go.

And then a lot of soft work to be done. No place to hang out or washing. And then I can't name all on the sun. Oh no, we gonna wrap it down to Electric Avenue and then we'll take it higher.

It's pardon my take presented by Marshall Sports.

Welcome to part in my take presented by DraftKings. Go right now. Download the DraftKings sports recap. Use code take that's code take to get $200 in bonus bets when you bet just $5 only on draftkings, the crown is yours. Today is Wednesday, April 24 and Pft, in the words of Anthony Edwards, they got kd, but we got Jaden McDaniels. That's what you go. That's what happened to the Timberwolves. Yeah, he said that on February 9, 2023, when the Suns traded for Kevin Durant and he was asked about that trade and what the west is going to look like and he said, we got Jaden McDaniels. And Jay McDaniels was the best player on the court tonight. He did it. He outscored Katie by seven points. He was awesome. They got Jaden McDaniels.

The Suns are dead. I proclaimed it. The Suns are dead. They don't look like they have any life to him. Whatsoever. They look, they look anemic. Bradley Beal looks pretty bad. No trade clause, by the way, for Bradley Beal. So I think he's like the 6th highest player in the NBA. They're going to be stuck with that for a little bit. I can't tell the Suns, I don't think the Suns were going to do anything in these playoffs anyways. But I also think that the Timberwolves might just be good.

The Timberwolves are good and they're deep. Like Jade McDaniels was out, was better than Carl Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards tonight. Mike Conley was incredible. Just dicing them up. Pick and roll with Rudy Gobert. Like the, the Timberwolves two stars did not play great and the Timberwolves still won easily because they're just so much better defensively and the Suns play ISO ball. Like I, it's, it's terrible basketball to watch. And yeah, I think the timber is a really, really good, and I just love that, that, that Anthony Edwards quote turned out to be prophetic with the, they got Katie, we got Jade McDaniels. Everyone laughed at him. He was dead right.

Yeah.

The sun's offense typically looks to be, it is actually heliocentric, in the words of our good friend Ryan Rosello. But you, you just, you drive to the bucket and then you kick it out and you panic. So it's like usually Booker, he'll take it towards the hole, defense collapses on him and then he's like, oh shit, what I do? Tries to find a guy on the outside, makes a clumsy pass, ends up with a bad three point opportunity. It's just, it's a tough, tough offense to watch right now.

Yeah.

And Katie just stands around and he gets his points, but he just like it. It is very tough to watch. And they, you said it on Monday. They, they miss Chris Paul. And I know they don't miss actual Chris Paul at this age, but they miss a point guard because Devin Booker is not a point guard. He's a great player, but he's not a point guard. And it's like their offense just looks like crap. And I do think they'll, they'll still win a game or two here going back to Phoenix, but the Timberwolves just look younger, fresher, hungrier, better defensively. They're ready to go.

I should say, thinking back to the term heliocentric the way that Ryan uses it.

Yeah.

You didn't use it right.

That's it.

No, no, no. But I, I did in a weird way because they're heliocentric, but with like, three different players.

Three sons. They have three sons.

Three sons. They have three sons. And the earth revolves around all three of those sons at the same time. But whenever those guys get the ball, it's like they're the only guy on the court.

There's only one ball. Also shout out, Frank Vogel. Maybe don't use your last time out with seven minutes or eight minutes left in the game. That felt like maybe not. Maybe you want to hold on to at least one. Not that I thought the game was going to go different because of that, but that was a head scratcher. I was like, what is going on? Like, if you, if you need to change anything, if you need this timeout later, you're just fucked.

What's all the, all the separate runs that the Timberwolves end up going on and Vogel's. I got to stop this run. Got to take the air out of the ball real quick. But that happened too many times, and you didn't have enough timeouts.

I also have a vibe stat for this game, and it has nothing. It's based on absolutely nothing. I'm sure someone will actually give, give me the stats and say I'm wrong. I don't think Devin Booker is good when he wears a headband. I just don't, I don't, I don't know why I don't. I think maybe his head is too constricted. I wears a tight headband.

There might be the case. I think it has partially do that also partially not having the offense run like a cohesive offense where you have, like you said, a facilitator, somebody that's like, in charge of what's going on in the court, and then he plays off that guy. But the headband also makes a difference.

Yeah.

And the sun's offense is horrific to watch, you know, in these last two games. It also is the Timbrels defense just being so goddamn good, and they're so like, they're in your face. Just don't, they've just been playing such good basketball.

It's like Rudy, Rudy Gobert might be Hank's best opportunity for Jokic Stopper.

Oh, we're just finding Yokich stoppers. Every time, every, every show is just, Hank, where are you going? Where are you, where are you feeling right now? Hank, who's the team? Is it the Timberwolves?

Yeah, probably Timberwolves.

Okay, you're a Timberwolves fan now. Just hopping from rock to rock.

The Clippers, though, could be the Clippers.

After they just lost.

Yeah, but the match and Hawaii came back. I'm doing a lot of matchup research.

Okay, give us your massive matchup research.

Clippers are more physical. They got the. They got the stars on the perimeter, physical front.

They also run an offense that can sometimes look very bogged down and, like, a bunch of dudes standing in the paint, like, what are we doing? But, yeah, they are physical. Kawhi came back.

We.

We lost our. Who comes back first, Yanis or Kawhi? And I. He came back in the. In the best. What did you say?

Quiet.

Wasn't come back first.

I said quiet. I said, quiet. Come back any day.

Yeah.

I mean, he did it in the most quiet fashion where he just showed up at practice today, like, walked in, and everyone's like, oh, is he playing?

Okay?

He's playing. And then they lost. So they probably need him to get injured again.

Yeah, I don't know what that was about because he's been out, what, since late March.

Yeah, he's the end of March.

Yeah.

Yeah, the end of March. And you would think that if he was good for game two, he would have been for good for game one. Right? Like, we're talking about a matter of days here. And I read some.

I.

There was some report out there. I forget who actually put it out. Somebody could find it. But they were saying that Kawhi has been working his way back, and this has been the target timeframe for. For a couple weeks now. But I guess just two days ago, it wasn't right. It wasn't right. It had to be just perfectly good for him.

Yeah, had to. Yeah.

Had to be exactly what he needs.

I did.

Mavs were like, when. When Kyrie and Luca are both playing, like they did tonight, like, they're. They're. They are fun to watch. And, Lucas, what was. What was the. The line from Iron Eagle? Jake, I'm sure you loved it. You might have creamed your dockers there. He said, he is that guy or something like that. What do you say?

I think that was it. Yeah.

And it was true. Like, Luca. I love Luca. Just shit talks, too. He'll hit a big shot, and he'll just turn around to just no one or everyone and just shit talk.

It's usually the person closest to him, and 99% of the time, that's a referee. So it doesn't matter what happens on any play, Luca just stares at the ref, screams at him, or at the very least, just, like, stares daggers at him and mean mugs him. It got so bad tonight. Actually, that he got teed up.

Yeah.

For saying the. For saying the end word and one.

Yeah.

And he was right. It was an end one, but they gave it a technical foul, and then I think James Harden made a free throw for the Clippers. So it wasn't n one technically, but it was just a very rare end one for the team that didn't score.

I just like it. I don't know. He's just got. He's got that shit to him. He also. Luca has to lead the league in garments worn during a game. I feel like he's. I feel like we're going to get to a point where Luca just where plays a game and he's just like. There's no skin showing.

Yeah.

Or he. What he might do is come out there with, like, two full sleeves, and then they're like, tear away, like, tearaway pants. So, like, he tears away the forearm on one for the first quarter, entire sleeve on another, leaves just a wristband behind. Maybe. But my take was that Luca. I think Luca desperately needs therapy, but I also think that it would be very, very bad for him as a basketball player. I feel like that shit that he has makes him excellent, but he's just. He's always angry.

Yeah, he is.

He's always angry. And then the last game we had in the NBA was Pacers Bucks. I want to. You know what? I'm going to put my hand up and retract what I said on Sunday when I said if the Bucks played the Celtics, Giannis would be the best player, and then the next four best players would be on the Celtics. A lot of Bucks fans. I heard you. I like that. You're listening. You're mad. You're angry. I like that.

Let's get.

Let's get the bait going. I think the second best player in the series would actually be Damian Lillard in the first half, and then the 8th best player in the series would be Damian Lillard in the second half. So that's my correction. Cause he was awesome again in the first half, and then he was. He just ran out of gas. Like, he's their only option right now. He just ran out of gas.

Actually have Pat Bev as the best player and then Giannis, and then the Celtics, then dame.

Yeah, that was one of those takes I just threw as a throwaway. And then I heard from a lot of people. I still think I'd probably take three Celtics. Maybe not four, but three over Dane. But we can have that debate. We can continue to have that debate, but this was like a very classic case of they need Giannis very badly because Pascal Siokam was incredible. And they again ran out of gas. Like, Damian Lillard was so good in the first half and in the second half there were stretches where he wasn't touching the ball. It's like he. There. The bucks are an older roster and the Pacers were like, we're just going to run all over them. And it worked. They ran them out of, they, they just ran him out of the gym.

A few times in the second half. The Bucks looked like it was going to be a game. They looked like they were getting within that striking distance. And then you'd look up and the Pacers had opened up like a nine point lead within a matter of seconds on them.

Yeah.

And Tyrese Halberd is so good. He's so good at making everyone else good. I know that's a very stupid thing to say, but it's like, if you watch it, he is just good at making everyone else good.

Yeah. Yeah.

He's also got a crazy voice, which I had never heard until I listened to his post game press conference. Have you heard him talk?

I don't know.

I have.

He's got a very. It's like a super smooth, unexpected voice.

Okay.

Yeah. All right.

So shout out.

Shout out.

Tyrese Halberd, one of the better ones.

In the NBA, I'd say.

Well, and I. The last thing I had on this game is I don't, I don't actually know what Jay Crowder does, but he's on another team in the playoffs. He's got the best career of just being on teams in the playoffs. I don't know. I mean, doc Rivers, people will blame doc Rivers because he's easy foil. The Bucks have, like, major problems when. Yeah, duh. Major problems when Giannis is out on the court because they have to play guys that probably shouldn't be on the court as much as they are. And Jay Crowder is. I just don't know what he does.

Jake Rider, he'll hit some, like, unexpected threes occasionally for you. He'll hustle. He's physical. I think he's a leader. I think his teammates like him a lot, but, yeah, that's what it is. He bounces around. He's always on a playoff team, always finds himself in the conversation sometime in like mid May. There's always a nice team.

Yeah.

He seems like a cool guy to be teammates with, so I think that's what his value is. It's like, I enjoy hanging out with Jake Crowder.

Yeah.

But then you can't have Jay Crowder playing 15 minutes in a playoff game.

Not.

I'm down for all that.

Yeah.

That is, that actually is intangibles that you need. But he probably shouldn't be. He probably shouldn't be playing in this series.

He's like a, like a slightly better. Udonis has them for the last, like, four or five Haslam seasons.

Yeah, he's just, he's, he's cooked and. Yeah, I mean, this is gonna be a fun series. I hope Giannis comes back. I still think, like, it will be a competitive series, even if. If Giannis comes back, but it just, it's like Pascal Siakam was so good, and it's just like, yeah, you need Giannis to guard him. I don't know what else you could do.

If Yanis comes back, he also won't be 100% Giannis.

Yeah, true. Although I take 75% Giannis right now to. To guard Siakam, who I. I think.

50% Giannis can beat 75% in beads.

Oh, well, is embiid ever at 75%?

No. So he's actually, I'm talking about, like, 75% of 50%.

Got it.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

I'd agree with that. We're going to talk all the Monday night stuff back in studio. This is just for all the games that finish late, so don't worry. We get into all of that. PFT, would you like to break down advanced analytics on the Capitals game?

Yeah, I mean, I'll keep it real quick. It was a tough loss tonight, but using the proprietary algorithm that we set forward after, after game one, I have the Capitals actually winning this game three goals to two. So the Caps take a commanding two nil series lead on the road, and we're coming back to DC Verizon center on Friday. Gonna be incredible. Hopefully clinch it at home after two more home wins. But what I have here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna eliminate three minutes from the game and show how the Caps won. So I think it was 1540 in the second period. The Caps got called for penalty. You would think that I would want to keep that on the board, but what actually happened was the Ranger scored a shorthand goal, and they probably should have scored three shorthanded goals tonight. It was, it was atrocious power play by the Caps, so they got a shorthanded goal. So I would wipe that off the board entirely. And also, during the game, it was pretty obvious that the real score of the game was three for the Caps, three for the Rangers, one for the referees, because the refs just absolutely gave that game to the Rangers.

And also, they didn't, they didn't call an egregious hit on TJ Oshi, which Tom Wilson would have been thrown into volcano if he had done it. He would have been kicked out of the league and murdered if that was. If that was him throwing that hit in there. So I'm taking that one goal, the shorthanded goal off in three minutes, and then the Capitals then win that game, three goals to two goals, and then one goal still for the refs.

Okay, so up to nothing. Now, what would we say to the haters? That being like, I wish this was the Red Wings.

I would probably agree with the haters.

Okay.

Sometimes the haters.

Sometimes the haters absolutely are correct.

Yeah.

And I think that I.

Hats off to the haters.

They call this one. So I agree. I agree with all of them. You're absolutely right. And I will admit when I've been bested by you and you guys had, you guys had it right from the start. But it's. It's a tough series to watch so far over. Had one shot on goal in this game, and then at the very end of the game with, I think like a second left, maybe half a second left puck on a stick front of the crease, and the puck just kind of scoots by him. It's. It's been tough to like when Spencer Carbury has the balls to call out Alexander Ovechkin, you know that there's a real problem. And having your head coach call you out publicly like that after game probably deserved. He needs to show up. He needs to do something because he was great the second half of the season, but he looks like he just doesn't want to be out there.

But we're up to nothing.

We're up to nothing right now. The Red Wings would probably have already won the series if they were way better than the gaps. But yeah, we're up by two. Two games right now, and we'll see what happens on Friday.

And we should just mention, I mean, that Lightning Panthers game was some of the best goaltending ever for like two and a half. Or it was about a period and a half. Cause it was like from half or whatever, somewhere in the second period till the. Till they went to overtime was just insane. It was. It should have been like a six. Six game. Bob made one of the greatest saves ever, diving back across the crease. I. It was just. It was awesome. Playoff hockey. And then it was a great goal in overtime.

It was like a reverse spin move that he pulled across the street, stuck his hand out there and got. They're calling it the bobbery.

Ooh, I like that. Yeah, that's pretty great one. I mean, it was just, both goalies were just insane. It was just back and forth, and both goalies were just standing on their head.

Yeah.

You need to have, if you're going to be an elite goalie, you have to have at least one say that has a nickname to it.

Yeah.

And then I saw the memes of Bob the builder. He's building the wall around the gold. That's nice.

I like that.

Abs tied it up and predators tied it up. So we got one ones everywhere, pretty much. Well, two. Oh, capitals.

A lot of good hockey. Yeah, a lot of good hockey. That's the one lopsided series. It pains me every, every time they play, looking at the odds in the puck line and just how, how deeply, deeply favored the Rangers are in this series compared to every other series out there.

Hank, I don't like your face.

No, I mean, I hopped in. I was.

I appreciate that.

Pft.

Kind of. I believed him. I was like, 150 to one. Like, that's crazy. In hockey, you get a hot goalie, they're playing well at the end of the year, and then you just watch the games and.

Okay, it's fair. It's totally fair. And you guys are absolutely right. Like, the Capitals, they were such a weird, shitty team this year, but they were kind of fun because they found ways to just pull rabbits out of their ass every single time. It's much harder to do against maybe the best team in hockey, but I did.

Hank, I didn't tell you to bet.

On the cat speaker.

Zero.

No, no, no.

You didn't know this was all me.

It's.

It's the same thing as, as I'm saying. I'll say later in the episode about the Leafs where it's like, oh, Ovi TJ oshi championship experience. They got a hawk goalie.

Yeah.

Left handed goalie.

Yeah.

Crazy things have happened.

Yeah.

All right, we're going to kick it to our.

Actually, maybe not. I don't.

Now that I, now that I think about it, I don't, I don't remember.

A crazier thing that's ever happened in sports. Then the capital is beating the Rangers in the first round of this playoff series. I don't think that's happened.

Yeah.

Sitting at two, it wouldn't have been the craziest before the series started, because, like, who knows? But now I'd say it would be.

Pretty crazy if the Caps come back and win this. That, that is the craziest moment in sports history.

It's bigger than the miracle on ice.

Way bigger than miracle. Way bigger than the Ryan Garcia upset. It's.

There's.

There's just a lot of stuff.

Douglas, false.

Yeah. Yeah.

All right.

Before.

So we're going to kick it to ourselves and talk about everything Monday night, and then we have three great interviews. But I just wanted to, because this is basically a time travel. We're going to go back to the afternoon. Max has to go through all the stages of grief. I just want to say, my boy Max, I heard reports he had two dingers tonight in softball. So that's a positive thing. Two dingers.

Nice work.

How, how was what? What was that, Hank?

No, I was gonna say, I can confirm that. I don't want to confuse the people even more, but I also heard reports after we recorded what we were about.

To listen to, Max were just screaming.

At each other for, like, 2 hours off, off camera. But I would like to get some more details on that.

I'll get a. It was Max screaming.

Yes.

That was an overreaction by me.

I was an overreaction.

He did. He.

Max was screaming at PFT. Pft was sitting just kind of lightly trolling. And then they come out of the part of my take Stu studio. The entire office was standing up, looking down the hall, being like, what is going on? And then Max did a move that it was basically like a five year old's move. He sat down at his desk and he pressed his hands over his ears so hard that I had to, like, grab him, be like, dude, you're gonna hurt yourself. He was like this, like that, trying to block out pft talking. And meanwhile, it was a whole fucking circus. Then memes had. He was taking Mister pair for a walk. So, like, mister Pa, like, he kept. Memes kept on screaming. Like, Max would get up and pace. He'd be like, mister Pear. Watch out for Mister Pear. And Pft was just, like, walking high. It was just a, it was quite something. So, yeah, I mean, this, the rest of this episode is quite something as.

Well, but that led to two dingers.

So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He.

He had the rage going then when the two hands over the ears didn't work, and I was still trying to talk to him, he just got up, walked, grabbed some headphones, and sat down, put the headphones on at the computer to drown me out. But the look on our co workers faces, of genuine concern. I don't know if it was concerned for me or if it was concerned for Max, but either way, they. They were shocked.

And yes, I was taking a shit upstairs in the bathroom.

Yeah. Screaming.

No, it was a bunch of people who were standing up being like, is, pardon my take, about to break up. I had to be like, no, no. Just the NBA pool report came out.

That's what memes was most concerned about, was like, he didn't want Mister Pear to see members of the family fighting.

With each other's papas.

He said, yeah, he still has a mis. He saw Mister Pear thinking that we're all one big, cohesive, loving family. And that was Mister Paris first glimpse into, like, whoa, maybe I entered a broken home right now.

It was also just a funny. Like, I was trying to be the peacemaker for once. I was, like, trying to calm Max down. So, yeah, that. That's a great. What?

The silence was actually a a mature.

Move by me, because if I. Yeah.

I would have kept going.

If I didn't go silent, I would have just started screaming in circles. And I also am so bad at arguing. That's my worst flaw, is that I am.

I am so bad at articulating my points.

Yeah.

That I just scream and it just. Nothing makes sense.

Even though I was a thousand percent.

Right, I still disagree that you're a thousand percent.

I'll show you.

I'll show you, like, the ESPN article.

Like, I don't.

You just don't understand that you're the only person on the planet that doesn't. That is reading that report that way.

I mean, I use my own.

Person on the planet.

I don't get.

I don't get.

I don't get my information from people that are, quote, tweeting the. The release from the NBA refs and then promoting it to their Philly audience.

We're.

This is gonna be confusing for people.

Yeah, it's gonna be very confusing.

So I just wanted to stir Max up.

Let's take it to ourselves. We're gonna discuss everything happen Monday night. We also get the pool report in the middle of discussing everything. So it will all make sense once you listen to the next part of the show. So let's kick it back to ourselves in studio. Before we get into Monday night's games, a quick word from our friends at Pepsi. Everything tastes better with Pepsi. That's a fact. Thinking about maybe getting pizza. Pepsi goes with it. Nothing better than a slice of pizza and Pepsi. Thinking about maybe some wings, some saucy, stretchy, crunchy, gooey, messy. Pepsi is an essential part of the most undeniably delicious food moments. Let's face it, Pepsi just makes every bite better. What about cheesesteak? Cheesesteak pepsi perfect with a Pepsi. The refreshing pop of sweet, fizzy Pepsi bubbles make even the best food taste even better. So if you're listening right now, on Wednesday, April 24, that's today. From 04:00 p.m. Eastern to 06:00 p.m., eastern, we will be in Detroit for pardon my cheesesteak, pop up with Pepsi. 20 217 Woodward Ave. Detroit, Michigan. Come on out. Check it out. We have a new Pepsi infused part of my cheesesteak sandwiches, the hot seat and the PM beef.

We tried all these. They are so good. So, so good. So be working the truck giving away merch. Come out and see us. 20 2017 Woodward Ave. Detroit, Michigan 04:00 p.m. To 06:00 p.m. On Wednesday, April 24, which is today. If you're listening, grab a Pepsi, zero sugar, for your next meal.

Thank you.

To Pepsi. Okay, boys, what game do we want to talk about on Monday night?

There were a couple really good ones, but I think a lot of people want to hear us talk about the Lakers and the Nuggets. I under. I know that. Oh, I know that.

Yeah.

However.

Yeah.

I think this is one of those cases where we should trust our gut, big cat, because we are. We're ball watchers. And if we're being quite honest, the middle of that game was not the best basketball. I think there was a better game on last night.

Yeah.

So you want to say it? One, two, three.

Let's talk about the game with the team that choked.

Well, let's. Let's do one, two, three, and then we'll say the game that we think was the most important on Monday night.

Okay.

All right. One, two, three.

Bruins, maple Leafs.

Oh, I said calves. Magic, Bruins, maple leafs. Oh, man. We got a. We got a whole. You know what? Let's.

Okay, since. Since we can't come to decision on any of those ones that we really want to do, let's look at the ones that we didn't say.

Yeah.

Okay, so there's the Lakers and the Nuggets, the 76 ers and the Knicks.

Yeah.

So which of those two do you think we should.

Well, you did say Lakers nuggets, but I said that. Didn't say 76 ers.

Knicks.

So I think that's got to be.

The one that might be the last one.

Okay, so let's talk 76 ers next.

Okay, so, big cat, I didn't get to watch this game, so I have no idea what happened.

Okay, so here's what happened.

Mm hmm.

Uh, the. Oh, he's taking off his headphones.

Philadelphia, seven to listen.

Six ers were up four points.

Really?

With congrats. Under a minute, but we'll hold on it. I didn't finish.

Harry smacks at diarrhea.

Tyree smacks. He had diarrhea. The 76 ers official Twitter account posted a picture of Tyrese Maxi looking like he had the flu, hands on his knees. And Michael Jordan from the flu game. From the flu game. So if those won that game, if you don't remember, the Bulls did win that game. The Sixers did not win this game. So the Knicks scored eight points in 27 seconds to win this game. So boxing out is important.

Yep.

Actually, calling timeouts is important.

Getting inbounds passes, just hypothetically, getting inbounds passes is important.

Hitting free throws is important. All these things are important to basketball and winning games. Yeah.

So I kind of lied a second ago when I said that I didn't watch this game, because I did, but then my cable cut out when there. I think, like, 14 seconds left in the game.

Yeah.

So I didn't see the end. So what you're telling me is very, very surprising. I. The cable cut out, and then I saw that the 76 ers were protesting, filing an official grievance about the end of the game. So I don't know what happened, yada, yada, yada, in those seconds, so.

Okay, so you know what?

Pft.

Because that, that does suck that your cable cut out. I have, uh, I actually have a transcript that I could read.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah. You like? I'm there.

We call this the, the five stages of grief. All right, so here it goes. Uh, 1st. 1st part of the transcript. That didn't just fucking happen.

Okay?

That's denial.

How did that three go down? How did that. These are all separate tweets. How did that just happen? How did that just happen?

Those are two different tweets.

These are three different tweets. How did that just happen? He said this, that. I'll just read them all. That didn't just fucking happen. New tweet. How did that three go down? New tweet. How did that just happen? How did that just happen? That's all the same.

Twitter silenced me, like, five times last night.

Lowry has to make that for free throw. New tweet. I'm done with this shit, man. New tweet. Absolutely done. I can't keep watching heartbreak like this. New tweet I'm absolutely gutted. I can't keep watching losses like this. It just can't keep happening. New tweet. I'm absolutely devastated. I keep saying I've never felt this bad. And then a new devastating way to lose continues to happen. New tweet. How does that happen? New tweet. Where he has to make that fucking free throw. These are all just the same tweet. He just keeps going repetitively. New tweet. I just need to know how that happens. New tweet. How do you lose that game? New tweet. In no way can you lose that game. New tweet. The kawhi shot in this. Both of those losses have happened in our lifetime. He's talking about Jalen Brunson hitting the front of the rim, having it go up like 5ft in the air and then go down. New tweet. How do you not call a timeout? New tweet he did call a fucking timeout. What the fuck is this? This is the bargaining phase, I believe.

No.

So I actually broke it down, okay.

Into five.

So there are five stages of grief.

That you have let me.

Yeah.

First is denial.

Yeah.

Second is anger. Third is bargaining. So we've reached the bargaining stage because I had denial being that didn't just fucking happen.

What was it?

That was it that didn't just happen? Or how did that.

No, it's.

That didn't just fucking happen.

Okay?

And then anger was. He did call a fucking timeout. What the fuck is this?

Yes.

And then bargaining was.

I have it. I have it coming up. So he then goes, new tweet. I don't know what to do right now. New tweet. Here's the bargaining. We will get a better whistle at home.

Yep, that's the bargaining.

And then he goes, new tweet. This literally has to be one or the other. It's simple basketball. He's talking about the fouls that could have taken place. New treat. I need an explanation on the inbounds timeout. Absolutely need it. New tweet. This is depression. Can someone recommend a very good feel good movie? Like the best feel good movie of all time? New tweet. Stop saying Marley and me. And then the final act. New tweet. Sixers will win this series.

That's acceptance. That's accepting the loss, but moving forward and choosing to try to better yourself in life. So it was healthy to watch somebody speed run the stages of grief.

Yes.

And I don't actually, when I printed out that screenshot here, but I cut out who that was. So I don't know who was making all those posts, but they sound like they're a real loser.

Yeah, so it was a hell of a game. Shout out, the Knicks. So the Knicks it is. You know, Tom Thibodeau, that culture, never giving up, just playing hard all the time. Offensive rebounding, you know, in the inbound play, getting all over Maxie, not having a foul, not letting Nick nurse call a timeout, which he might have. He might not have. It was all time war. Did do the hesy. Yeah, he did the hesie. And then I think he also tried to call a timeout after Max. He had thrown the ball away, being like, just kidding. I want this. It was an all time.

Both of those are actually correct. Both of those are correct. As an unbiased watch.

No.

I, I. As an unbiased observer of what happened at the end of the game, I've seen all the screenshots. I've seen every single angle of this. I've watched from probably like ten or twelve different angles and synced them all up. What happened was Nick Nurse thought about calling a timeout as they were inbounding the ball, as the ball was being thrown in. He can wait.

I hold on, Max, I'll let you, I'll call on you when Pft is done with his point. Let's have some decorum in the courthouse, please.

Nick Nurse considered calling a timeout. He even made the motion. His body wanted to call a timeout, but his brain stopped his body at the last second. To call the timeout, you have to. Your hand touches your other hand. Like that makes.

I show, I talk.

Show me a timeout now. Show me what Nick Nurse did.

Nick wouldn't like.

He went like this on a timeout.

And even one of his hands was curved. He never had a timeout. Never. The two shall shall meet. It did not ever touch Tucker.

Rule of the timeout.

Exactly. And so that was not a timeout. And then when he did call the timeout with authority, the ball was already out of Maxi's hand.

Right. Okay, Max counterpoint.

I want to think about push off to a max, keep going like this, that he tried to take the time out away. At what point, logically, in that play, would a coach be like, oh, just kidding. I'm comfortable with where we are at right now. I don't want the timeout.

I'll answer.

He never caught the ball.

That.

I'll answer that. He was trying. He was about to call a timeout when they couldn't inbound the ball, and then he pulled it away when they inbounded the ball.

Correct.

They didn't cleanly inbound the ball.

Yes, but it looked like they were.

Yeah, he's, no, it never looked like he was clean. That there was, there was going to be a clean.

It's very clear that he was about to call a timeout. Then they know the ball.

He reacted to the, the play that.

Was going on at hand either way, and that's wrong.

There's just, if we're talking screenshots, he clearly called the tie a timeout when.

Max had the ball. Okay, either way up right now, it was an all time night. We talk about it all the time, where if you are a diehard sports fan, you know that at some point your name and number will be called. It's like the, it's like a military draft. You will be called in the screenshot war. And it was Philly and New York just going back and forth in a screenshot war. Zapruder film type shit. Breaking it down, you know, frame by frame. I love watching all of it. I love watching all of it. Max, can I ask you a question that has nothing to do with the timeout? Do you think Joel Embiid should have boxed out?

Yeah.

You also didn't get to my last tweet where it said, I'm not, I'm done complaining about the refs. Obviously, we're gonna, we're gonna get fucked at the garden.

Wait, those are your tweets?

You guys are showing all like, wait.

That can't be your tweet because you said, or the person that tweets that they were done complaining about the refs and. No, I just complained.

I was shooting. What you were saying was incorrect, and I was letting you know that you.

Are incorrect, but you're done complaining about the roughs.

Yeah, well, someone has. The, the refs weren't why they lost that game. The red, there were 650, 50 plays.

That could have gone.

The Knicks or the Sixers. Way, way. At the end of that game, the Knicks got all six of them. That's just a fact.

They just try harder.

No, I mean, regardless. Yes, they try harder. They, they won the game. They serve to win that game.

But you are, there's Joe Biden have one rebound in the second half.

Joel Embiid scored 36 points on one leg. Joel Embiid. Joel Embiid. And Tyrese Maxi have nothing to do with that loss. They're.

Once you showed up, although he did, he should have boxed well, how about.

Nico Batum and Tobias Harris in the last two minutes of that game where they may have well been sitting on the fucking bench. Nico Batum was sitting there and watching the last minute and a half doing nothing. Yes, and beat should have boxed out, but Embiid was giving everything he had on the 50% leg and no one else was doing anything to help him.

I think he's about to cry.

Yeah.

Isaiah Hardenstein, who hit the big shots.

For the Knicks at the end.

Oh.

Oh, I know that.

I don't give a fuck.

I.

So what I saw, Hank, from what.

I saw from the transcripts, I just fucking experienced one.

You know that he won't talk if he does.

Hank, you remember that guy, Dante Vincenzo?

Oh yeah.

Where do you put Yukon?

No, no, he won, he won a natty. You remember that one year where he got just sick?

Oh, yeah, we were at the game Nova.

The game at Nova.

Yeah.

Did you guys see Villanova's tweet shouting out there?

I know what it says.

Villanova, MBB, our guys Jalen Brunson and Devon Chen.

So with two huge threes to seal.

The win and all of their stats and the Philly fans did not like.

And Josh Hart was incredible again, who also went to Villanova. Max, do you think you should have sent the flu game tweet before the game was over?

Yeah. Wait.

Oh, me personally?

Yeah.

Oh no, why? I know the Sixers.

Oh, the Sixers.

Sure.

Yeah, they should have waited.

Yeah, the PFT. I would like you to look at this.

Okay, we're looking, I'm looking at. But you're not complaining about Ross.

No, no, but, but I just want to make sure that we're not spreading misinformation on this podcast.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna lower the shades cuz I can't.

Alright, go ahead, please. Right.

No, no, that's it.

Oh, that's it. It's just that, it's just screenshot. I mean, you're in the max.

What?

We are looking at Maxi holding the basketball and Nick nurse behind him calling.

A time press play real quick.

Hmm.

That could be the parallax effect.

Oh, that's a. Okay, press play though.

I have to get.

There is a screenshot. He's been in the screen shot because.

It, it could be a situation where Maxi is losing the ball right at that very moment.

Okay, here's, here's Maxie has the ball.

Mm hmm.

Kind of.

Kind of losing the ball.

Yeah.

Kind of losing hand. No, Max. See, this is why screenshots are right there.

See ya.

See the clip? The full clip.

Okay, how is it he has it in. It's in his left hand.

Okay, so they are filing a grievance with the NBA, which has. What happens when you follow grievance? Adam Silver just does. He opened up the envelope.

Nix did it in February. I don't think it led to anything.

Yeah, I think they. That Adam Silver is just like, okay, they felt a grievance.

No, that's stupid.

Yeah, doing that is stupid. And, and I do agree. Like, the Knicks wanted to win that game at the end of the game more than the Sixers did. Both of those things. Both of those things can be true. I need you guys to admit that.

Both of those.

Yes, both those things to be true. Joe MB did, actually, I should say he did box out. He just box out the wrong guy.

Yeah. I mean, I had three guys, boxing.

Guys, doing nothing yet doing nothing. It just feels like the Knicks, I mean, the role players, the Knicks are stepping up and no one from the six.

What do you say?

Yeah, role players play better at home. You got to win, but you're going to have to win a game on the road to win this series, correct?

I might. Game of the year on the Sixers at home. Game.

Max already did that. Oh, you did?

Yeah, I won that.

Yeah.

No, I thought you did it for series. No idea. Series of the.

Oh, no, I'm doing just this game, and I actually do think the Sixers have a good chance to come back and win this. It's going to be tough.

I think, I think I agreed with Kurt Goldberry said, we'll get to it later.

You're going to have to win on the road. But I love the Sixers in game three. Love them.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, they were right there. They were right there. The Knicks are just, they're just a tough fucking team. And Jalen Brunson has not played great.

And Tyrus Maxey is incredible.

Mm hmm.

He was so good last night.

So are these all must wins from here on out?

He got blocked at the end.

I think that was the greatest flu game that ended in a loss. Yeah, Hardenstein was.

I mean, he's, I mean, how about the three from the logo to put him up? I mean, that was hard.

Sign just decided for like the last, you know, hour of the game was just like, I'm gonna just get everything and just out hustle everyone.

No, yeah, that's a guy that's just like a. Like a pure heart guy that wanted it more than anyone else on the court last night. And that's. He's, like, the reason why the Knicks won, because he wanted to win that game.

Yeah.

No one else wanted to win. He was wanted to win.

Did you see a very funny clip on Jalen Brunson's podcast? I'm sure you listen to Max, because it's, I think Shalen Brunson and Josh Hart host. It both went to Nova.

Cool.

Isaiah hardens reminding Josh Hart of the moment that Josh Hart found out that he was. He's black. His dad is. Is black and white. And so he's like, yeah, I'm actually black. And Josh Hart was like, yeah, I do remember that. I was like, you changed everything.

Yeah.

But, yeah, he's a dog. Like, he's a fucking dog. He just.

That.

Those type of moments, the mecca was on fire. Like, that is the coolest place in a playoff atmosphere. And the Knicks, I mean, the Knicks deserve it. Like, they're. They're a long suffering fan base.

I don't think of the same. Like, it.

This.

The series is going. It's going to look a lot different in Philly. Like, they feed off the energy of that crowd, and that's, like, very obvious.

Yeah, yeah.

So again, again, to clarify, this is game three is must win.

Yes.

No matter what happens, game three, game four also must win.

Game three is a must.

Yeah.

Has to be a must.

It's two one going into game four. Is that a must win?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're all must wins.

Game five.

Although it is. If it weren't the Sixers. If it weren't the Sixers, like, I could see the Knicks blowing a 3131 lead, but the Sixers make it. You know. Do you know, do you understand what I'm saying here? Like, the Knicks feel like a team that, though, that would get really excited and blow a three one team. But the Sixers are the antithesis of, like, the team that would come back from a three.

Yeah, I got it.

Yeah.

Like, okay, you.

So hell, last night, you're thinking about.

Not making game five. A must wins. What I'm hearing.

No.

Yeah, yeah, they're both must wins.

Okay, Max, you know who agreed with you, Max, on the. The end of the play review system? All that stuff was LeBron James and his post game comments after his. Well, yeah, he was like, yeah, the Sixers got fucked, too.

I mean, Max, he also got fouled.

Four times Max, he also had quite a shove. Also lost in all this.

Kyle Lowry's flop was so good.

So good. When he drove, he dropped to his knees, and then he fully extended his body and just dove to the baseline. They didn't call it, but I think everyone should go back and watch that clip because it is the absolute best flop that I've seen from them.

Yeah.

Max, who?

You just.

You're only mad at Hank, I think, right now.

What did I do?

Well, you. I did. I'm so happy. I can't see your fucking face from in here.

Yeah.

Max and I were actually commiserating on a side text last night because I bet the Sixers moneyline as well. And I also. I don't want to relitigate anything because.

I didn't text anything. I thought about it.

I've.

I've copped to being a bitch for the Wisconsin Jamu game. But Max did go through something very similar where a person he has met twice in his life texted him talking shit.

And it pissed me off.

Like, friends, fine, but just randoms bad. Hank, you. You are. Well, you know, let's go to hockey.

Real well, to Hank's defense here. Hank wouldn't act like if this. If it wasn't good for the pod. He's doing this.

Yeah, because that's true. Not because he's company, man.

Not because he's smug. Asshole.

Yeah. Are you worried, though, that you've. You've. So you're. You're basically beating up the longtime little brother to you in Philadelphia while the Knicks are kind of rising, are you? A little. Is like. New York fans are fucking crazy.

I don't.

Who cares, okay?

We've played the Knicks in the playoffs.

Celtics would win that in four.

Yeah.

Oh, all right, so the Bruins dominating the Maple Leafs, historically.

Shout out, mister Pear didn't play.

Swayman.

Underdog pairs.

My key to the game, and he didn't play.

Dude.

How about mister pair going two and. Oh, he picked double Philadelphia teams, and he somehow survived two and. Oh, it's crazy. Like, the Bruins own the Maple Leafs, and the Maple Leafs won that game. Yeah, kind of stole that game.

They did steal the game.

I don't know how.

The Maple Leafs again. Hockey guy. But they should be.

They're stacked.

Yeah.

They always are.

Austin, Matthews, Tavares. Like, they have everyone.

Max Domi.

Max Domi. Who's the other skinny kid?

Their goalie kind of stinks. That's the thing. If they can get a good game. I've watched Samsonov a lot over his career, he will show up once every week and be like, holy shit, this is the best goalie in the NHL. And then the other games, he's just letting everything through.

Marner. That's what I'm thinking of.

Yeah.

I mean, they stole the game. Bruins had a power play. At the end of the end of the game, I think they got one shot. Maybe that was. That was probably where it went south.

So how. What's your panic level?

They gotta get swam in back in that. That was, you know, key to the series. And then came to it just in play.

Yeah.

People were like, oh, Hanks.

Key.

The series isn't playing.

Look what happened.

Look what happened.

Yeah.

And sticky in hockey. Memes. Hello. The fact that the Sixers, like. Cause I means is a Knicks fan, but he's way more of an Islanders fans and the Knicks fan. The fact that the Sixers happened. The booth boys were down. Tremendous. Actually, we should have mentioned Jake. Jake had a great night because Mike Breen.

Double bang. How about all those people saying, hello.

Let'S cut the mics. No, no, no.

Now you're gonna talk about this like, pick one side.

Pick one side.

The double bang was good.

Yeah.

But it's because it's so rare that it happened six, six times, got a double bang. And this was certainly worthy of a double bang. So I liked it a lot. I appreciate Mike bringing that momentum. Yeah, I'm just saying that, you know, it's. It's the exception that proves the rule.

Yeah.

Just pick a side.

Okay.

Embrace them or hate them. I also won.

No, I won't pick a side. Cuz some announcers I like, and then when they say stupid shit, I'm gonna make fun of them. It's pretty simple.

You do that for me?

Yeah, it's pretty simple. Yeah, it's pretty simple. When Reggie Miller says something dumb, I'm gonna make fun of him. When Mike Breen doubles, does double bang and be like, that was awesome.

Yeah, and.

But it would suck if you did.

Double bang all the time. Correct it, lose its magic.

It would rule. If Reggie Miller just. I love. We'll talk about the Lakers Ducks. But when. When we get down late in games and Reggie Miller just starts like brainstorming out loud, there's just nothing better. You're like, he's going to just. He's going to say some shit.

I think what happens is he gets high on basketball.

Yeah.

There's a good basketball game going on. He's just so excited by it. It amps him up and it he's just thinking about too much basketball in his head. There's no room for intelligence.

He becomes like a five year old where you're like, you know what sounded out.

Yeah.

And he just sounds out all his thoughts, and you're just like, no, not that one.

Like Trent Dilfer.

Yeah.

Lose football games and still win.

Yeah, exactly. So, memes. So the booth boys, the Sixers, have that horrific loss, and then at basically the same time, the New York Islanders, who are up three nothing in this game, they are then up three to the Carolina Hurricanes, pull their goalie. The Carolina Hurricanes tie the game with about 215 left. They win the face off, and they score maybe 8 seconds later. And that's it.

Yeah, 9 seconds.

Oh.

So I was watching this game.

I was like, there's no way.

No.

That's got to be the worst, worst.

Loss any fan could, you know, go through.

And then 30 seconds later, that happened.

No.

So you were like, you had a moment of sympathy for Max, and then it just smacked you right in the face.

Yeah.

The end of the next game was kind of almost like Reggie Miller, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

They just get it, shoot it.

It was like, holy shit.

I can't believe this is happening. And then the Hurricanes immediately tipped one in. And then 9 seconds later, they scored again.

And I was just laying on my.

Beanbag chair in my apartment, just speechless. And then they scored again. So it was three goals in 90 seconds, and that was just silence?

Yeah. Yeah.

How do you think most, most people who are fans of the Knicks and the Islanders woke up this morning? Was it the Lonzo morning gif, where it was like, really sad and then. But, okay, it was the, it was the bus.

Yeah.

The bright side, Nick's 20 dark side Islanders. Oh, yeah, yeah.

But for you, you woke up more negatively than positively. I understand that about you. And if you watch the, if you look at the part of my take twitter account, you can see very clearly the bias show through where something bad happens to the islanders. Everything's in lowercase letters.

Yeah.

And usually just a sentence stating fact. When something bad happens to the Rangers, it's always like, uppercase letters. Holy shit.

This awesome.

Yeah, I like that, though. I like that. We, you, you know, memes tweet, you.

Think eight points in 23 seconds or 20 goals? Eight points in 27 seconds or two goals. And nine was worse?

I think two calls a nine.

Yeah, it's pretty bad.

Memes and I were both texting, like, even though he's a Knicks fan, we were just like, sports sock.

It was a good.

We were, we were in lockstep.

Yeah.

Max was like, I hope you sleep, and was like, I don't care, man.

I bet most of the people that are Sixers fans didn't even watch the first half of the Lakers Nuggets game, even if they're a diehard NBA fan, because they were too busy with the screenshots.

Yeah, you had to get on this.

Yeah, yeah.

Your second. Your second screen was completely devoted to, to grainy screenshot.

Yeah.

Your number was called. Okay, so the Lakers Nuggets. I mean, it was an incredible night of sports. Lakers Nuggets. We said it on Monday's show. Every single game goes the same. Anthony Davis and LeBron James play out of their mind. The Lakers get a lead. Yokesh somehow has like a quiet, to the national media, quiet triple double. Everyone in the national media says, watch out for the Lakers. They're so dangerous. Jason McIntyre, Nick Wright come out of the woodwork being like, this is the team. This is the team. Nuggets win.

LeBron has some career defining highlight plays.

LeBron was incredible.

Dunk on Jamal Murray was awesome. It was incredible. The fast break dunk that LeBron had at the end of the game, also amazing.

He was playing out his money.

He was hitting big shots down the stretch and then he misses one, and that gives the Nuggets the opportunity to go down.

When LeBron was so, so good, that block dunk, he, it reminded me of the splitter block dunk in the NBA Finals, which was ten years ago, and he's still doing that. And then also the steel of Jamal Murray and then dunking on Jamal Murray. Like, LeBron emptied the clip. He was so good. Anthony Davis emptied the clip. And it's just right back to Nuggets win. It's like, I don't know. I don't know. I know that the Sixers had a. Probably a more. Actually, I don't know. I think the Lakers might have a more demoralized.

That series is definitely over.

Well, yeah.

What's going to happen is the Lakers might. The Lakers are going to play great in some more games that they're also going to lose.

Right.

That's what's going to happen. And it must be, it must be so frustrating if you're on that team or if you're a Lakers fan and every single time they go out there, they play their balls off, they play incredibly, and then something happens and the Nuggets end up winning and they're, I mean, they're coming off what, ten games in a row that they've lost to the Nuggets in the playoffs, or is it just overall?

It's ten.

It's actually overall, and it's LeBron's 9th in a row.

Yeah, fun fact. So ever since LeBron picked Jokic last in the. In the all star game, the Lakers are owing ten against the Nuggets.

Interesting, interesting. Another interesting stat. Jokic had another 20 2010 game.

Yeah.

There have been eight players. Eight times that's happened in playoff history. Jokic has four of those already.

It's crazy.

He's insane. Jamal Murray stunk, but then he was good. Michael Porter junior was awesome last night, too.

Well, that was the craziest play. The Jamal Murray was. He was so bad for, I don't know, 46 minutes. Then he ended up scoring the last six points, which is also a credit to, like, keep going to this guy. But the, the play that was like, that got him to that point was Michael Porter junior. S three, which was off of Jokic doing the move where he was trying to get a foul when he wasn't really ready, set to shoot.

It was a. It was a heave. It was a three point shot. It wasn't like, from the logo or from, you know, three quarters of the court like he does sometimes, but it was an off balance, very awkward attempt out of three. It got. I don't know if it got deflected or if it was just a bad shot in general, but he did get fouled on the attempt. They didn't give it to him. Austin Reeves gets out muscled for the ball. Pass back.

Aaron Gordon was.

Yeah.

All hustle.

Wide open three.

Yeah, it was. It was a crazy game. And I do, you know, LeBron, it's. It's nuts that he's doing this at age 39, but it's also got to be so demoralizing because they, they have emptied the clip. Like D'Angelo, Russell even was. Was playing well and scored 23. Like they have done everything. They. They are essentially playing a team that they have to play a plus and the other team has to play like a d plus to have a chance of winning because the. The Nuggets were playing like a c plus last night and they still won the game.

Yeah, I think it was like five minutes of game time, maybe six, where the Lakers didn't score in the third.

Quarter because they do the thing where they stop running plays.

The Lakers were up 20 points and their game plan just became either chuck a three or take a weird off balance shot that's heavily guarded in the paint, seven foot jumpers. They probably missed like five or six seven foot jumpers. It was just bad.

The Lakers came out of halftime. I think they ran three or four plays, scored on all of them, then they just stopped running plays and, and stopped scoring.

It's.

It's crazy. And I, like people are saying, you know, Plinka and Plinka didn't have the roster set because Jokic, anytime Anthony Davis comes out, Jokic just dominates. He dominates. Anyway, you know, ham is not a good coach. I. They just, the Nuggets are just better than the Lakers. And it just ha, it's. Every game is so funny. It's like I kept on just betting the Nuggets live all night. Like, I was like, nine and a half, seven and a half, five and a half. Okay, they're going to be in this game.

And the way they lost at the very, very end with Anthony Davis falling into the Nuggets bench after it was all over and having them all celebrate around him like he was on the team, brutal. It's gonna be tough to come back.

Also, crowd shots. Buzzer beater, crowd shots. There's something like, it gives me a little tingle in my balls. I was just watching all the crowd shots. They're so fucking cool.

Speaking of crowd shots, there was another video that came out from after the.

Yes.

The Jokic brothers got active, and I think it was Strahanja.

Yeah.

I think that the big guy, the big Yokich brother with the Mohawk, that dude threw a punch at a Lakers fan or another fan. I don't know what who you was wearing nomination. I'm going to assume that it was a Lakers fan.

Yeah.

Guy got punched in the face by what appears to be a 270 pound, very, very active serbian guy.

Yeah.

Chewed the punch. Credit to the guy that got punched in the face, because I think anybody else would just crumpled into the fourth dimension at that point. But that guy, he stood up to it.

People are wondering if the Yokesh brothers are washed. They got a boy. They got to knock someone out.

Yeah.

They got to do some kind of feats of strength. They gotta lift up a building or something. Just do an Instagram video where they lift up a car.

Yeah.

Do the Magnus von Magnuson get like, a big rock that's shaped like the continent of Africa and put it over your head?

I liked one of their girlfriends or wives. When the punch happened, right before they got into the actual fight, the lady was walking away, it looked like with a baby, just rolling her eyes, being like, oh, no, he's about to fight again. Yeah, this is bad.

Oh, breaking news. Breaking news. Why?

No, some good news for Max. The, the last two minute report came out for.

Okay.

Oh, so the grievance worked. They won the game.

The NBA finds that Brunson did pull on Max's jersey. It should have been called. Max's push off on heart was marginal and should not have been called. And Nick Nurse should have gotten a timeout, so.

And Josh Hart did foul Tyrese Maxi on the inbounds.

So. So does that mean the Sixers won't speaker zero.

But, but that means I deserve an apology. Nick Nurse did call the timeout.

Do you want for me to. I didn't really.

I'm looking at Mister sunglasses.

Oh, Mister sunglasses. Well, I know what, I know what I saw.

Well, the, the official league report saw differently, buddy.

I'm looking at it right. Oh, you got buddy I'm looking at right now, pal.

Okay, look at it.

Max, he brings his hand towards heart. Marginal contact. That's, that's how I know it's bullshit. That was definitely pushed off by Maxi, okay? They should have called it, but it was. If we're calling foul, you've called it.

Are you meeting you might be wrong or.

No, no, I'm admitting that that's the timeout when Maxi, quote, still had the ball. I dispute the fact that he.

You want to read it again?

I dispute the fact that he had possession of the ball when that timeout was called.

Do you want, do you want me to read it to you again?

Read it to me again.

Nick nurse should have gotten the timeout.

I dispute the fact that Max, he had possession.

So you're filing a grievance?

Yeah, I know. I'm disputing, I'm disputing the grievance.

You're disputing the league report?

I'm disputing the findings of the grievance.

Okay, okay.

It's under protest.

So to be continued on the apology. You're not getting one today, pal. Pft. I have some good news for you about the Lakers.

Okay?

So you might. If you're, if you're in the media and you're like, I have a show every day, I got to figure out how to talk about the Lakers. They're down two o. They've lost ten in a row to the Nuggets. How are we going to possibly talk about how the Lakers are really, really good? We have a solution given to us by your good friend Mike Greenberg.

Okay?

Mike Greenberg did an entire segment on get up today where he talked about how dangerous are the Lakers to every other team in the playoffs besides the Nuggets. Besides the Nuggets down o two, he would pick the Lakers against any other team in the west. Unfortunately, they're playing the Nuggets down zero two.

So really, the Lakers, if they lose this, let's keep track.

Let's keep track of this, because I think.

I think Greenie's onto something here. The Lakers should be. They should be able to hang a ban, a banner for Western Conference finalists.

It's also just so wildly disrespectful to the teams that played so much better than the Lakers all season long.

Yeah.

Thunder, the tea wolves, the Clippers, the Mavs, the Suns, like, I. But the Lakers, they are the. Honestly, they should have won. They actually.

Should.

They win the title. If you could do the bet, like, you know, title winner with excluding. So title winner, excluding Nuggets. It's the Lakers.

So in the finals, Lakers versus Celtics, who do you got?

Nuggets.

No, but you can't do the Nuggets.

Okay.

All right.

I actually think.

Wait, are the Celts wearing Nuggets jerseys?

No, I think that the Lakers will beat the Celtics in the finals.

Yeah.

If they're allowed to play.

They're the most dangerous team.

But there might be some antiquated NBA rules that say if you lose in the first round, you're not allowed to play in the finals.

Greening just did an entire segment being like, I didn't, but I would have. Yeah, I get, like, you're lucky that I got held back there and didn't have to play any of the other teams.

The crazy thing is, he might not be wrong when it comes to talking about matchups.

No, I think he's wrong. I think. I think there's other teams that are.

Better than the Lakers that match. Not better, but match up better.

I think. I think they would. No, no, no. Against the Nuggets, you're saying?

Yeah, like, I think the Lakers match up against the Nuggets as good, if not better, than any other team in the west.

Oh, I don't agree with that because they haven't won a game in two games.

I know, but that's what's crazy.

Yeah.

No, his argument was the Lakers match up better against everyone else in the west. He would pick the Lakers against everyone else in the west. But unfortunately, they're playing the Nuggets.

Okay?

So essentially, like, they're so good. This is bullshit. They have to play the Nuggets.

It's like saying the Bills unfortunately have to go through.

Yeah, Patrick every. Yeah, the Bills, the 49 ers and the Ravens are really, really good if they don't have to play Patrick Mahomes.

Yeah, that's.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. All right, Cavs. Magic. All I had is that the magic are still going with their strategy of not scoring. The basketball hasn't worked through two games. They have shot 34% from the field in two games. They've shot 23% from three. They have not had a lead for a single second. Let's see how game three goes. Maybe they'll try to score the basketball.

All I have in this game, in this series. And, max, this applies to you, too. The series doesn't actually start until the home team loses a game.

Yeah, I mean, Cleveland's playing great defensively, and the magic have paolo and then a bunch of guys who are missing shots. That's essentially what's happening. Stars nights was awesome. That was a great game. I also have made a bet on the Knights at 13 to one to win the Stanley cup based on one period.

Okay, so I like the stars might be.

It might be in my running for period of the week because as soon as the nights went up, 2 hours, like, this team's good.

So for my period of the week, I actually liked the third period of the Hurricanes Islanders game.

Yeah, that was, that's in the running.

That's more of like a 10 seconds of the week.

Yeah, that's definitely in the running. But it was just, it was one of those nights. You sit back and you're like, could you imagine not watching sports?

No, they're great. They're absolutely wonderful.

It's.

It was so how lucky are we to live in an age where we can watch all these sports?

And how lucky are we that Max is with us? So it's just very lucky.

Generational run.

He can't, he can't get anything, anything going.

Can you imagine how bad it would suck to watch sports in, like, the eighties when you had to, you didn't, you wouldn't even know what happened in most of these games. You'd have to call a phone number in the morning.

Max, you should try just being a loser like us.

It's insane how good my teams are at being bad when it matters.

Like, it's in, like, your only fault is that you should take a page out of our playbook and just be bad from the start.

Every team is the same. The Eagles, the Phillies, and the Sixers are all the same team.

I'm absolutely devastated. I keep saying I've never felt this bad. And then a new, devastating way to lose continues to happen.

I got silenced by Twitter, too. I tried to tweet so many things that they were like, you've already tweeted this before. You've already tweeted this today.

Did Twitter ever ask you if you were emotionally okay?

No. I wish they did. I would have said no.

I think Elon put it. Put a stop to that. But they used to be like, are you sure you want to tweet this? You seem sad.

We also had a great moment when Max tweeted, our role players will play better at home. Their role players will play worse. And he spelled the role roll. And then Jake tried to lightly tell him that he spelled it wrong, and Max in the nicest way. But I know what he was thinking when he was sitting in his house. I don't give a fuck, Jake.

Yeah, but I'm.

I wanted to do it over text and not publicly. Shame.

Yeah. Yeah. Hey.

Yeah, Max, I notice that you tweeted the word roll a lot. Ro ll, didn't she mean to put hoagie.

Oh.

You get any of that?

I'm done with you today.

Max.

I was. I was with you. I was in the. I was in the. The foxhole with you last night. We were. I was fighting for you. It was. That was devastating. Okay, anything else before we get to hot seat cool throwing, we got some great interviews coming, some drafts, some NBA more NBA we get. Actually, you can. You can skip ahead for our dumb NBA thoughts and actually listen to Kurt Goldsberry give you good NBA thoughts. But before we get to hot seat cool throne, we're brought to you by our friends, of course, light hot seat cool throne is presented by Coors light. There are plenty of chances in life to make things better by choosing chill. Grab every opportunity to choose chill, then reach for a refreshing Coors light. When you embrace a chill mindset, it's a good time to choose chill. Crack open a Coors light. Coors light is mountain cold refreshment, crisp and refreshing. As the Colorado Rockies make the most out of out of the times you choose to chill, choose Coors light. Get Coors light delivered straight to your door with instacart by going to Coors light.com. Take celebrate responsibly.

Coors Brewing company, golden, Colorado, Coors light.com. Takehank your hot seat cool throne.

My hot seat is the Broncos.

Oh, I had this as well.

Yeah.

They released their new jerseys, and they are ass.

Okay.

So they look like a spring football team.

I actually had a different take on it. Not the jerseys. The jerseys are ass. I actually think the hot seat is every, all the 31 teams, pr teams in the league because the Broncos did a masterclass on Monday. If you see it, they release terrible jerseys, which it's hard to do. Most jerseys are like, oh, fire, flame, fire, flame, fire, flame.

I disagree, because any new jersey that gets released, everybody's like, this looks like an XFL team.

Yeah.

Until they get used to it.

Yeah.

Then, and then they kind of gradually warm up to it. Because what we like as fans is nostalgia.

Yeah. Right.

We want. We want the old orange crush blue helmet.

Yeah.

With the D on the side and the horse and all that stuff. Because that we associate that with, like, our childhood.

Yeah.

So to us, the old jerseys are always better than the new ones, and the new ones will always get roasted until they become, like, a little bit less new.

Yeah.

So anyway, they released is why they're a PR masterclass. And I was thinking about this. It was like the jerseys got absolutely roasted. They look like people were saying they look like Utep or UTSA. Sorry. But they actually are really smart with what they did because they released bad jerseys and then they traded for Zack Wilson all on the same day. And you don't know which one to be mad at. They just split the vote. Like, that was so smart of them to do those in basically a matter of hours with each other where they're like, which one you want to choose? We'll take some heat here. We'll take some heat there. None of the heat will feel too hot.

Speaker two.

Well, the good news for Broncos fans, and for one, Billy football as well, is that now that Zach Wilson gets to play against Patrick Mahomes twice a year, we'll finally get to determine who is better, Zach Wilson or Patrick Mahomes.

I actually don't hate it for the Broncos. Like, take a shot.

He's got a big arm. The altitude. Throw the ball, like 75 yards.

Yeah.

He played an altitude of college.

Yeah.

But, yeah, the Broncos, I thought it was genius for them to do those two moves at the same time.

I did like the retro look that they're bringing back, too. That is a good look. And it feels like it's been jersey season. Like, redesign season. Yeah, uniform redesigns. Because we had the jets. The Jets were asked to, right?

No, they were fine. They just kind of look a little. They're like, they didn't really do much closer to looking like the Eagles every day.

Yeah, they didn't do much in their redesign. Then the Texans dropped their new ones today. Yeah, I like the helmets with the big h, the calligraphy h on the side of it.

But, yeah, just the Lions had some new ones.

Oh, I actually like those because they brought back the black uniforms because Dan Campbell won the division, and the owner said, you can wear those. You can have your Metallica jerseys if you win the division, which he did.

I like that. All right, cool throne.

My cool throne is Paul Pierce.

Yep.

Also had this. The truth.

The NBA polled 133 players, active players. They asked who the greatest player of all time was. Michael Jordan was first. LeBron James was second. Kobe was third. Seth Curry was fourth. And then Paul Pierce was tied with Magic Johnson for fifth.

How many votes.

.8%.

.8%.

Paul Pierce.

Figure out a way to vote for definitely Paul Pierce.

Any vote is like, he's on the list.

Yes.

On.

According to current, the NBA players, who's top five NBA player of all time?

I love the anonymous polls I saw. The other one that was, you know, stuck out was that Tom Thibodeaux, one coach you'd least want to play for at 46.8%?

Yeah.

Josh Hart did have his back. He's like, everyone's soft now, which I agree with. Like, Tom Thibodeau's made average players great throughout his entire career. I don't know why you'd not want to be. Be an average player and become great with him. And then the best, though, was they graded the refs and 3% gave it an a, 27% b, 47.8% c, and then 8.3% f, and they talked to some of the anonymous players for quotes. And so they talked to the player who voted in f, and he said, shit, they don't know if they want us to play or not play, but they good people. Perfect quote.

Yeah, I like that. Because that grievance isn't so much with the. The referees themselves.

It's.

It's with the system and being told how to officiate different players on different nights sometimes.

Yeah.

No, no consistency, but they're good people.

Yeah, they, they good people.

They good people.

Good people. We just got using that all the time when we insult someone like, they.

Good people and bless their heart.

Yeah.

Bless their heart. All right.

Pft.

Your hot sequel throw my hot seat is non compete clauses because they just got ruled to be inadmissible. So you can go ahead and compete now as employers. And to tie that in with sports, Hank, you just gave me a look.

So if you have someone sign a non compete, that just doesn't matter.

Apparently.

Doesn't matter anymore.

Apparently.

They threw them all out. So that's. Tom Brady is on deck to now.

Be, like, in regular jobs.

Yeah.

Who did this?

Was it the FTC? Federal Trade Commission?

Love it.

Power to the people, I guess.

But.

But Tom Brady is now going to be voted on to partially own the Las Vegas Raiders as early as, like, I think, next week. They've ruled that the admission has gone far enough where they can actually put pen to paper and determine whether or not he can own the team, which they always. You never hear of any owner getting rejected by the NFL. So Tom Brady is going to own the Las Vegas Raiders, or at least a big part of it.

Or play for the Patriots.

Well, that's what he said. He could do both now because the non compete. Nice play for the Patriots. And also. Well, I guess he technically has owned the Raiders since the Tuck rule game.

Yeah.

But he could officially own him now.

Yes.

So congrats.

Congrats, Hank. It's awesome.

Yeah.

Then my cool throw is going to be uniform redesigns, because everyone's doing uniform redesigns right now.

Yeah.

I was just thinking, what team do you think is the most current. Not current. Hasn't changed their uniforms a very long time.

I mean, the Patriots haven't.

Hackers did a few years ago.

Yeah.

They changed their color scheme.

They're fun.

It got slightly worse.

Yeah.

Packers, bears.

Vikings. Feel like they've been around forever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Vikings been around for really long.

A lot of them just cycle through.

Giants, although they changed their helmet, but yeah, there's a. Some of the franchise.

Raiders.

Yeah.

Raiders.

Raiders classic.

Yeah, classic. Okay.

My hot seat was all of Hank's hot seats. So I'll go to my cool throne. My cool throne is the Oklahoma City thunder because Kevin Durant is 100% going back to the thunder.

You think so?

Yes. They're doing some trial balloons. Did you see Holmgren's new shoe?

I did not see his new shoe.

It is. It was. I think it's under the KD line, and it was a video narrated by KD talking about Chet Holmgren and the city of Oklahoma City and Oklahoma City Thunder. Have I just looking right now, like, they have every single draft, they have four or five picks. If they're one player away, this is the only place that Kevin Durant can go win a championship, and everyone would be like, your whole career has been perfectly bookended, and you're not a bad guy.

Katie's probably thought about it for a couple years, and then they, they went ahead and had such a good record this year. And it's like, you know what this.

Is kind of saying?

This is kind of my thing.

It all makes sense. It all kind of comes together where it's like KD, like there. Can you pull up the Chet Holmgren new shoe ad narrated by Katie? Because there's also a very funny moment where I think Katie says, like, can you handle the whole city on your shoulders? And they show a picture of Oklahoma City. And no offense to our listeners who are from Oklahoma City, but don't do a skyline pick. If you have two and a half buildings, they have two and a half bill.

Yeah.

It literally was like two and a half buildings.

But that's just so you can see the sky.

It was, I think you got to do, or maybe do a night skyline or do, like, a close up of, like, the arena. So here it is. You play the video. But I think Katie's going, I think.

You could do it. I'm not just talking ball.

You think you could put the whole city on your shoulders. There it is.

Step up there.

I know I can do it.

Go back.

Well, I don't know my drive.

Be fair.

I know the whole city on your show. There it is. Yeah, that's Oklahoma City. That's a city that count two and a half building.

That is a city that we fit on. Shed homegrown shoulders.

It's. You got, you got it. You got to do a different angle. I don't know what the angle is, but you can't do this angle.

Maybe.

Maybe bird's eyes so you don't see how big the buildings are.

Like, this is. This is like half of Atlantic City. I don't know.

Or maybe just worms. Eye view. Yeah, real low.

I like that. But, yeah, I think Katie is gonna go back to the Oklahoma City thunder, and I'm absolutely for it because I think that would be a very cool, like, if he won, wins a title with the thunder, kind of. Everything's forgiven. I know not everything's forgiven, but it would be like that. That, oh, my God. I finally. We did it in this city. I ended my career here.

Nice.

There will be people that say, oh, you went back to them when they finished first in the west.

Oh, duh.

That will be the.

Yeah.

He would not go back to the thunder if they weren't a good team.

They were.

They are a good team. And they have so many draft picks. It's actually insane. They don't have they have too many draft picks for players that they can rock.

Yeah.

They don't have, they don't have enough spots.

Right. So that's going to happen. Get excited for that. And then probably a sick. We'll probably see the skyline again when he does the I'm coming home video.

Make it, make it nighttime. Show me that black ass sky time.

And maybe an arena shot and like, a fountain shot. But don't do this angle.

I need to make sure to announce. You say black ass guy. Yeah, black ass sky.

This, this depressed me. Sorry, Oklahoma City. I'm sure it's a nice, actually, I've been, remember we went, oh, no. We went through Oklahoma City.

Yeah.

Raven.

Yeah.

We had a waitress at a chain restaurant we won't name because she offered us mushrooms.

Sounds about right.

She was cool.

I've enjoyed my time in Oklahoma City.

Yeah.

I spent two nights there and I had a perfectly fine time.

Yeah, I had, we had a great time in Oklahoma City. And also lead the league in wearing the free shirts. Mm hmm.

I also think they might just got a bid to build the largest skyscraper in the country.

Good.

They did. I saw that, Hank. The skyscraper. It's actually gonna make the city look worse because it's so much tall.

Oh, no. If you that need like seven sky.

Yeah.

You can't put like one giant building in Oklahoma City because then everyone's like, what the fuck are those other buildings?

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, we'll figure it out.

Yeah.

Maybe do the shot from the top of the skyscraper or just do the big hole that they're gonna have to build. Dig for the skyscraper. Be like, look, we're up and coming.

You have to add at least 50% to 75% on top of all the other buildings if you want to put another giant building.

Yes. Yes.

Okay, Jake, finish off my hot seats.

MLB umpires.

Yeah.

The becoming a weekly segment on this show because we've talked about Angel Hernandez. But the Aaron Boone situation on Monday afternoon was one of the most jaw dropping. Like, there, there's not a two sided story to this one.

It ruled.

He got ejected for something a fan said.

Correct.

And the umpire didn't. He literally said, I don't care who said it. You're gone.

I love that.

I love that wild.

That's, I love it when, I love.

It when umpires double down on something that's so insane, like, egos on these guys. It's so good.

I love it. So, you know, how do you not love it, James? It was awesome for umpire to be so set in their ways.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, I don't care. You're still gone. It's fucking hilarious.

That's something that a parent would say.

Yeah.

When they know that they're wrong, but they don't care anyways.

Right.

You can't.

You.

If you're an ump, you can't admit that you were wrong.

Yeah. So what?

I would know why. Like, take advantage. People would appreciate you.

Yeah.

Fans would be like, thank you for.

Like, admitting you're wrong, taking accountability.

You can't show weakness.

I don't.

That's beta male.

I appreciate it more to just be like, I was wrong, but I'm not going to say it. Like, Max.

Yeah, so. Or like when the NBA admits that they're wrong about, like, a last minute call where somebody should get a timeout. Nobody respects them more for doing that.

Yeah.

Just a crazy situation for the ejection and the umpire probably won't face any consequences.

Yeah, he shouldn't. He should be. He should get a fucking hero's welcome.

That.

It was a hilarious clip.

Are you saying that because if it.

Happened to the Cubs, it would still be hilarious.

I mean, it's hilarious, but it's also.

It's hilariously bad.

It's very funny that.

Hilarious.

It's very funny that it happened right now. If it happened in a playoff game or a World Series game, then fans would be irate.

Yeah. But it happened.

I would deserve.

Yeah.

A Monday afternoon game.

Right. No, the. That video was so fucking funny. And it's also like the managers don't even do anything anymore.

They do.

The computers tell them what to do. It's true. Like, the computers tell them what to do.

So if I was really good at impressions, I would learn how to do the different managers voices.

Yeah.

And then go to the game, sit behind them in the dugout and try to get them kicked out.

It ruled that fan has a story for life.

Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Your cool throne.

My cool thrones.

Andy Reid. You got a new contract.

Oh, well deserved. Well deserved.

12 million a year, I think.

Big red.

Good for him.

A lot of cheeseburgers. He's definitely gonna do a press conference where he's like, what are you gonna buy, Andy? Cheeseburger?

He's probably gonna buy McDonald's.

He's 66. How long do you think he's gonna stick around?

As long as Patrick Holmes keeps saying it. Why would you ever retire?

He's got a pretty good gig right now.

Yeah.

Unless Travis Kelsey kills him on the side of the game.

Yeah. Yeah.

Shout out, Andy. Gotta get him on the show. Come on, chiefs. Some really nice things about you. Okay, pft. Let's get to our trifecta of interviews.

Before we get to Kirk Goldsberry, brought to you by Pepsi. I love Pepsi. Everything tastes better with an ice cold Pepsi zero sugar. You can have pizza, cheeseburgers, sandwiches, wings, hot dogs, everything. We love Pepsi. We love Pepsi zero sugar as well. If you're eating some saucy, stretchy, crunchy, gooey, messy Pepsi is an essential part of the most undeniably delicious food moments. Let's face it, Pepsi just makes every bite better. The refreshing pop of sweet, fizzy pepsi bubbles makes even the best food taste even better. Including part of my cheesesteak. That's right. We've got a part of my cheesesteak truck. It's going to be in Detroit, Michigan on Wednesday, April 24 from four to six at 20, 217 Woodward Avenue in Detroit. We're going to be serving up the new Pepsi infused part of my cheesesteak sandwiches. The hot seat and the PM beef. Those are the sandwiches we're going to be putting out there. We'll be working the truck, giving away merch. Grab a Pepsi zero sugar for your next meal and come drink some Pepsi and eat some part of my cheesesteak with us in Detroit. And now here's Kirk Goldsberry.

Okay, we now welcome on our very good friend, recurring guest Kirk Goldsberry. You can find all his work@thegoldenhexagon.com. Great Father's Day gifts. Kirk will be in the office in a couple weeks, so we're going to do an extended NBA playoff talk with him then.

This is really the Kirk Goldsberry preview.

It's the preview, but we, we watched such incredible games on Monday night, we wanted to have someone who's smarter than us to talk a little basketball for our listeners. So, Kirk, thank you for joining us. Let's, let's talk about it. The Nuggets Lakers series. The greatest series, the greatest, most lopsided series of all time, going back to last year and this year. So I guess my question to you is, what the hell do the Lakers have to do to beat the Nuggets?

I mean, the same thing the rest of the league does. A lot of us think the Nuggets are the best team in the NBA, and we've thought that for a while now. A lot of people think Nikola Jokic is the best player in the world, something we would describe LeBron James as for a vast majority of the 2010s. But this decade appears to belong to Nikola Jokic and the Nuggets. And I think it's telling. It's sort of a handing of the torch. It's very painful one. But this is LeBron James's longest losing streak against any single opponent in his entire 21 year career. Guys, he's lost nine straight games to Jokic and the Nuggets. Now what do they have to do? They have to get more support from their role players. I think one of the themes of our conversation from these two great series that we watched with, with Philly, New York and this Denver Lakers series is the old cliche, the role players play better at home. The Lakers need that to happen in game three if they're going to get back in the series. Simply put, Anthony Davis has been pretty good.

LeBron's been great. The rest of the team has not been good enough to even come close to really beating the Nuggets in a series.

Yeah, they were.

They were so close. It felt like last night, obviously they just lost by. By two or what was it, 1.022.2 point loss. They're down. They were up by 20. They were winning by 20 in the third quarter. What percentage of blame would you put on the Lakers versus credit to the Denver Nuggets for winning that game?

Yeah, I'm going to give credit to my friend Mike Malone, who you guys have had on this podcast.

Apparently you're really good friend with them, if you call him Mike.

Yeah, well, I remember you brought up my, my paper where I was very critical of Jokic's defense. And that's relevant. PFT because like. PFT because I think one of the things we saw last night was Michael Malone made the adjustment. The regular season is checkers. Playoffs are chess. What happened last night, in my opinion, was our first real chess move of this series. Anthony Davis was absolutely cooking Nikola guys in the first half. Just cooking him. I think he was eight for eight against him in the first half. In the third quarter, Michael Malone puts Aaron Gordon on Nikolaokic and moves Jokic.

Davis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.

Sorry, let me start over. No. So he puts Aaron Gordon on Anthony Davis and puts Jokic on to Hashimura. And the whole game changed. And the Lakers scored 40 points in the whole second half. Anthony Davis had a bunch of touches in the first quarter, the second quarter. By the fourth quarter he had. He had one shot, no points. Aaron Gordon and Michael Malone deserve credit for that win. In my opinion, that was a gritty adjustment and defensive breakout for Aaron Gordon, who's one of the few athletes in the NBA that can put up a physical sort of defense that can deal with Anthony Davis.

So.

Pft. My answer to that question goes to Michael Malone deserves credit with Aaron Gordon.

Now, the other part of it is so Anthony Davis was in foul trouble as well for parts of the second half. It does feel like the Lakers roster is a big issue and I don't want to take blame away from players, but like, every time Anthony Davis comes out of the game, Jokic does literally whatever he can do, whatever he wants. Most of the time he does whatever he wants to the, you know, 10th power. When he come, when Anthony Davis comes out of the game, is that, is that fair to just be like, the Lakers just, they just don't have enough dudes. They just don't have enough bodies to be able to compete with a team like this.

I mean, it's not a sexy talking point, big cap, but one of the big differences between good NBA teams and great NBA teams is simply depth. And when you talk about dynasties where you have like Sean Livingston or Manu Ginobili coming off the bench for these teams that win multiple championships, this Lakers bench is short. No offense to my fellow Longhorn Jackson Hayes, but he just, he just isn't going to be able to defend Nikola Kitch in a big playoff moment. And I think, like I said earlier, the fatal flaw with this LeBron era Lakers team is often not, not LeBron or ad, it's the supporting cast. And when you look at this losing streak against the Nuggets, D'Angelo Russell hasn't been good enough in a lot of these games. He was pretty good in game two, especially early. But Rui Hatchimora, Spencer Dinwiddie Vincent, these are the dudes that weren't good enough in Denver. And if the Lakers want to climb back in this series, it's that thing again. It's, can the role players get us a game at home? And they haven't been good enough in Denver so far.

Big cat, what's the other chess move that now ham can, can counter with? Because it is that. That is my favorite part of the NBA playoffs. As you see. One team will say, all right, we're going to adjust here. And then the next game it's like, all right, well, we're going to counter adjust. So what can they do knowing that they might put Aaron Gordon back on Anthony Davis and make his life miserable?

Yeah, I think they can use switches, maybe. And I, you know, Jokic is the best player in the world not throwing shade at him, but Anthony Davis showed last night. One of the only weaknesses in this dude's whole game is, is defending athletic players. And the Lakers have two options. Obviously, they're going to, I think, stick with this Gordon matchup on Anthony Davis. But can LeBron James attack Nikole Kicch and pick and rolls? Can they get Jokic exposed in the paint and really just start to attack him with their incredible rim attacking athleticism? Because that's what they had success with in the first half last night was Anthony Davis and the paint.

You mentioned the role players stepping up. It would be nice to get an Austin Reeves game that would take a little bit of the pressure off Ad and LeBron James. We haven't had that yet, but it also feels like. Kirk, are you making excuses for LeBron? He missed that big three down the stretch. I want to know what this. I want to know what the Nuggets being LeBron James kryptonite. What effect does that have on LeBron's legacy? Because he. Yeah, he made two great shots down the stretch. He didn't make the third. And so we can point out the third and be like, LeBron can't get.

It done at age 39. LeBron gave you exactly what the Lakers fans could hope for.

He.

I mean, I know you're joking, but, dude, LeBron was incredible last night. And even consider his age, he wasn't the reason. Again, if there's a legacy flaw here, it's his choice to move to Los Angeles and play these western Conference teams. Remember, this is a dude who went to the finals eight years in a row, in part because he was playing, you know, no. No offense to Hank, a relatively easy Eastern Conference playoff bracket each year compared to the west. So, hey, welcome to the west, LeBron. Denver in the first round. The defending champs get used to it. I think they just need more depth and better performance from the PFT. The bench scored six points last night. That's not going to get it done against the world champs.

Yeah, I also. And LeBron was incredible, and I'm not. I don't want to be a LeBron hater. I just. Maybe it's more just defensive philosophy. We would never be for the Lakers, but I. I thought that. I thought that last defensive possession, like, I understand switching everything, but, like, at least make a guy actually set a pick before you switch. A lot of times the NBA, it's like a guy just has to just stand somewhere and you'd be like, all right, switch. Like, they're not. There's very little, like, fighting through screens and, like, forcing the other team to actually, like, commit to a pick. Like, it was some. I can't remember who flashed up. And then LeBron just passed him off to ad, you know, Jamal Murray to ad. And it's just like, I don't know, maybe I'm just being a hater.

Hey, you want to get super nerdy with me? If we look at the shot quality models for those last two shots, the one that went in Jamal Murray's history making shot, one of the best buzzer beaters I've seen in the playoffs in a long time. You know, the nerds give that about a 33% chance of going in, but Anthony Davis is one of the best defenders in the league you could have defending that exact shot.

So smart.

Yeah, and then. But LeBron shot, too, was like, that was a clean look from downtown, just didn't fall. And LeBron is a much better three point shooter than we're used to seeing from him. You know, if we play that out a hundred times, I bet that LeBron shot goes in and the Murray shot doesn't a few of those times. And that's what we're talking about, the difference between a one one and a two of series.

And also, Jamal Murray did. I mean, he was so bad in the first three quarters. His shots were so off, and then all you gotta, you know, just let a guy keep shooting. And he was incredible in the fourth quarter.

Yeah.

And I think that's one of the themes with this other series. Like, if you want bad news from the Lakers perspective, Jamal Murray, aside from a few of those shots, has been ice cold. He's one of the coldest jump shooters in this whole playoff so far. And Denver's up 20 despite this dude being really cold. Now, obviously, he has the shot of the playoff so far, but they've done a good job containing Murray, and they're still down zero two. It stands within reason, big cat, that Jamal Murray's not going to have a couple more stinkers like this in games three and four. So they're going to have to find some offense from somebody else other than LeBron and ad in Los Angeles.

Yeah, it's the way that the Lakers are losing, too. You just mentioned, like, LeBron shot was a much better shot than Jamal's at the end, and they. They just happened to lose another one of these close games. I was saying last night that I actually, I kind of respect the Lakers for taking all these really tough losses and games where a lot of the times they play really well and then coming back and playing good enough to win, but then also losing again. Like, it's a vicious cycle that they're trapped into. But it'd be very easy for a team like that to just kind of give up and to not give the Nuggets all that they could the next game. But it's the gift that keeps on giving.

I mean, they're a great team. And it goes to show, I mean, one of the big themes for this playoffs, pfT, for me, is five of the top six teams, arguably, in the NBA on one side of the bracket. The west is loaded. And one of the things the Lakers and the warriors did, they get a lot of attention, but they dug holes earlier in the season and they get a seven seed and you have to play the defending champs. If they were on the other side of the bracket, they would have a much easier first round opponent. But that's not the world we're living in. They, they dug a hole early in the season. Now they have to play a very, very good team in the first round. The narrative never going to catch up to that, but they're, they're a good team. The Lakers are a good team. They're probably, in most years, not a first round exit, but it sure looks like that's where we're heading. Unless something changes.

Yeah, yeah.

I just want to give you something to think on because I would like to discuss this in person. I'd like you to really nerd out on it. For me, it feels like the last 25 years of the NBA, give or take, the west has been dominant over the east in terms of depth, in terms of talent. There's certainly a couple of years where you could make the argument that maybe, maybe the east had it for a little bit, but the west has just been so much better than the east. I'd like to know the reasons why. Like, if you look at the data, what are the driving forces behind the west? Just consistently beating the shit out of the east in terms of quality of teams. Can you do that?

Yeah, I'll write that up, and when I'm there in a couple of weeks, we'll go through my findings.

Yeah, probably, there's probably the Golden State.

Warriors that, and I would say, like Tony, I was gonna say a seven year stretch where it's Kirk Goldsberry working for the San Antonio spurs.

Yeah.

Really tip the balance of power.

That's what it is.

Okay, so the other game that we watched in the other series, the Knicks Sixers, also two very close games that now have the Knicks up 20 and also a game where you can watch it and be like the old dad sitting on, on the couch being like, this is why you got to box out, because the, the last possession, there was a ton of maybe borderline fouls, whatever, timeouts, all this stuff. But at the end of the day, it felt like it was just a Knicks team that, and it's probably because their coach is the way he is, that was just fighting for those loose balls that can win you a game versus lose you a game. And what is the fix, though, for the Sixers going forward to even this series up?

There's some parallels here. I mean, I think, like Jamal Murray, Jalen Brunson has been ice cold. He's one of the coldest shooters in the playoffs. He's even colder than Jamal Murray. And the Knicks fans should be excited and the Sixers fans should be a little scared of that because obviously the Knicks have won these two games. And Brunson, I'm sorry, should have, has had two of his worst games of the entire season. And you're right about the rebounding. I mean, the Knicks are just dominating the offensive boards. That, that let, that last sequence, I thought, epitomized a bunch of the narratives here in this series. The Knicks out, hustling out Harding, making the bigger plays, making the bigger shots. Say what you want about the Sixers. It just feels like they lose those types of games and say what you want about this. Knicks teams, they're tough. They make those kinds of plays, and they make the dads on the couches proud because they are the ones on the floor. They are the ones boxing out. It is a classic Tibbs team and maybe his best team he's had in a decade. But the Sixers, like the Los Angeles Lakers, need to get more.

I heard you guys talking about this the other day. Buddy heald, hello, are you there? You're here to shoot shots. Here to shoot threes. Tobias Harris, have you seen his paycheck? He needs to be better. Like the Lakers. They need to get more because Embiid and Maxi have done enough. They, if you look at the plus minus with Embiid on the court, the Philadelphia 76 ers are winning this series. When he goes to the bench, it's a tire fire. The Sixers fall apart, and that's where the Knicks have stolen both of those games. So they need, like the Lakers, those role players to show up at home to turn the series around.

What would you say to the haters? One of which might be sitting behind the glass right now listening to this that say Jalen Brunson's not playing well because the Sixers defense is doing a good job.

Look, Nick Nurse is a big upgrade over doc Rivers, and I credit the game plan. You know, I know you guys were joking about some tricks, but Nick Nurse knows how to make life hard on a guard. He won his only NBA championship by really making life hard on Stephen Curry in the 2019 finals. I think there might be some truth to that, but Nick Nurse has also left Josh Hart wide open. This dude is eight of 15 on threes, and the average defender difference, PFT, is over 9ft away. Those are practice shots, and NBA players are too good. Josh Hart's threes have sort of been the deodorant to cover up for his teammates stink as a jump shooter. Jalen Brunson's and Dante DeVincenzo has also been hot. So, look, he has done a good job on Brunson, but he has to find a better way to cool off the other three point shooters in New York. I think there is some truth to that, but ultimately, I would say to the Philly fans, the one behind the glass, we need to get more from the south end of our rotation if we're going to save this series.

Yeah.

I have another assignment for you. When you, when you come here in a couple of weeks, could you track the amount of minutes in a game that Joel Embiid physically looks tired?

He doesn't even jog up the court in playoff games sometimes. Yeah, he looks tired. He looks tired at a high rate.

He.

He lumbers. Any old guy who plays pickup knows exactly what that feels like. I saw a couple of men. He's not even running up the floor.

Plan on one leg.

I just would like to see the amount of time like you. It wouldn't shock me if you're like, all right, I've tracked the data 60% of the time, and beat is trying to let us know that he's tired.

Well, one of the things we do track is who's the last guy across half court in the player tracking area. I think that would expose that. He is not, in fact, running up and down, and to Max's point, he is. He's got a giant knee brace on.

He's.

He's a massive human being recovering from a knee injury. Cut him some slack. But, dude, the playoffs are unforgiving. Max, we need Joel and be to play like an mvp if we're going to beat the two seed in the first round.

Speaker two. So can you track that data, like retroactively? Can you go back and find out, guys? Or is that something that's just all new age? Because I would love to see late Patrick Ewing because there were times when he would, like, it'd be like 8 seconds left in the shot clock and then you'd see him coming into the frame. Whoa, there you. I'm talking like magic. Patrick Ewing.

No, we can only go back to 2013.

Okay?

I don't even think Patrick was playing for the magic.

Maybe some late era Shaq.

Yeah, definitely late era Shaq. We can get. I'm trying to think of who would be the all 10th man across half court.

George Mira song was pretty slow. Yeah, big George. It only took him like three steps to get there, but he was just, he had the two big knee braces on. He looked like mega man.

Yeah, another superstar who's 10th man across a lot of the time is Luka Doncic. But yeah, not because he just enjoys, he enjoys some, some, some drinking sometimes, too. But it's mostly because he's yelling at Scott Foster and the referees and he has to settle some scores before he plays defense.

Yeah.

All right, look, looking ahead in this.

Series, which team would give the Celtics a better matchup?

Dude, if they're healthy, it's the Sixers. I mean, this, right? They were 31 and eight, dude, when Embiid played this year, they were on pace to win about 65 games. The statistical markers with Embiid on the court scream were a contender. Now you have to look at the playoff version of this team. And so I am not mad at the Knicks. And if they win this series in five or six games, I'm happy to change my answer. But coming into this series, pft, the clear answer was the Sixers. If Embiid was healthy, and I think that's a good answer, but looks like Knicks are about to run him out of the gym unless philly changes something. So.

Okay, so similar last question for me, and again, we're going to do an extended NBA playoff talk when you get here, but biggest threat to the Celtics in the east, maybe it is just the Sixers, but I don't know if maybe there was another team in a different series. And biggest threat to the Nuggets in the west, the biggest threat is the.

Winner of this series. It's not a cop out. I have a lot to learn this two seven series, the rivals, the east coast rivals, the Knicks could play themselves. Man, when the Knicks look good, they look good. So I think the winner of this series, and that might be the Knicks, obviously. I just don't see Giannis coming back into shape. If Giannis comes back at 100%, maybe you could argue it's the Bucks, but I have to see that first in the west. I think the number one threat to the Denver Nuggets is the injury bug. I think they're that good. Yeah, I really do. I think Jokic is just. They deserve that kind of dodgy, cute answer, big cat. If I have to answer, I'll give this. I'll give the thunder the answer right now because they have home court. But, dude, if they're whole, I just don't see anybody taking out Jokic in seven games, beating them four times in seven games. It just looks like they're the best team in the league right now.

Yeah.

All right, so I'm going to give you a chance to look stupid when we talk to you in a couple of weeks here. What percentage do the Sixers have to win the series?

32% chance. And if they win game three, that goes up to 40. But if they lose it, as you know, it goes to zero. So I think this is what you guys might call a must win game, game three for the Philadelphia 76 ers. Because a stat that we like to say is that no team has ever come back from zero three, and I don't think that's going to be a Sixers team.

So this is the first to do it is a must win. Officially a must win.

This is a must win. And play it back to me when I'm there in two weeks.

And following up on that is game five. Is it how, what percentage pivotal is game five? Is it 100% pivotal?

100% pivotal. Without a doubt. I mean, the analytics leave little doubt. PFT, especially if it's three one and the team up three one wins game five. That's very pivotal.

Yep.

Pivotal. Pivotal for the. For that series.

Okay.

All right.

Good to know.

Okay, well, Kirk, thank you, as always. We'll see in a couple weeks, and we appreciate you giving us some insight because you're smarter than us about basketball.

Love it, guys. You guys know ball.

See you soon.

All right, see you.

Kirk. Kirk.

Cold's berries brought to you by Pepsi. More Pepsi. I love Pepsi. I actually hand up, I've drank two sodas today. I put myself in the Mac's club. My own max club had two sodas, but they're Pepsis and they're delicious. I had the wild cherry, and now I'm drinking a Pepsi zero sugar. We love Pepsi here at part of my take. It makes even the best foods taste better. If you're eating something stretchy, crunchy, gooey, messy, saucy. Pepsi is the best part of that meal. It makes good food taste even better every bite. The refreshing pop of sweet, fizzy Pepsi bubbles makes the best food in the world elite. And you can check us out. We're going to be in Detroit again. If you are in Detroit or plan on being there on Wednesday, April 24 from four to 06:00 p.m. Stop by 20, 217 Woodward Avenue. We're going to be serving up the Pepsi infused part of my cheesesteak sandwiches, the hot seat and the PM beef. Two great sandwiches, brand new. We're going to be working the truck, giving away merch. Grab a Pepsi, zero sugar for your next meal. Pepsi's great. And now here's our good friend Daniel Jeremiah.

Okay, we now welcome on our good friend recurring guest. It is an annual tradition. It is Daniel Jeremiah, NFL Network. You can see him on draft night. Also the move the Sticks podcast, Chargers radio. Actually, let me start there real quick before we get to draft. How pumped are you to be able to call some Jim Harbaugh coach games coming up? Because I, I think he's one of the best coaches. I don't know if you've been able to sit down with him. How, how excited are you for that part of your job?

Dude, I'm, I'm, I'm super excited. I mean, he's won everywhere he's been and, like, he kind of brings an identity with him. And on top of that, like, I'm just looking forward to my own Jim Harbaugh stories because everybody, everybody has theirs. I met him for the first time. I popped up there to Joe Ortiz, his, his press conference when he was announced as a GM because I'd known Joe forever. So I get there kind of late and, and Harbaugh is going to be walking in with a couple other guys I know from the organization and they're like, hey, Jim, I don't know if you know, this is Daniel Jeremiah, NFL Network. But he calls our games for the radio. And he like, kind of pauses and looks at me, goes, I think I've heard of you. Fist bump. And gone. And then gone. So I'm looking forward to my collection of Harbaugh stories to add to the archives.

He's an honest guy. That's what I love about him. You'll, you'll never get bullshit out of them.

Yes. Yes.

A hundred percent.

Yeah.

All right.

I'm looking forward to it, man, it's gonna be fun. Like, I, when that hire happened, I was driving up to the network and there's like billboards, like the charges that billboards like Jim Harbaugh's face on. I was trying to think of how many, how many coaches can you sell? Like, this is the draw. It's the coach. Like, that's pretty nuts.

It's absolutely true. All right, so it is draft time. You are, you are deep into the draft. Like I said, you can see on NFL Network on Thursday night for the draft. So let's start here with the draft. What, as of this week, have you heard anything in terms of teams moving up who you would see as a potential? Like, watch out for these guys. They love this position. They love this player. What's the latest?

The latest is like, I don't know how much movement we're going to see. Like, as of last night and talking to a couple different GM's, the expectation was sticking and picking one, two, three. So sticking and that, and that ends up being, you know, jaden going to Drake going three and then you have at four, it sounded like the Cardinals were going to, we're going to stay there and take Marvin Harrison. And then, you know, I know the Chargers would like to get out of five, but the sense that I get, at least as of, you know, last night was that Minnesota would come up for Drake May, but they weren't going to come up for anybody else. That was, I mean, that's what it was last night. So, so now you're thinking Minnesota could just sit there at eleven and I don't know who else. I don't think the Giants are taking JJ McCarthy. So now I think Minnesota might just kind of roll the dice a little bit, hang at eleven and see if he's there when they pick.

How much panic happens on draft night inside the draft rooms? I know that every team's got their board. They say that they're confident in it. And every year after the draft, every team acts like, you know, we had a plan, we stuck with the plan. But in reality, how often does a team just break out in a cold sweat? They're afraid they're going to miss out on their guy, whether it's a quarterback or a high level prospect somewhere else, and they just throw all their prep out the window and move up and do something reckless.

Well, usually it's like they have their group of guys. So say if you're picking 15 and you're like, well, surely one of these four players is going to be there. We love these four guys. One of the four is going to get there. Then all of a sudden you get to, like, pick eleven and three of the four gone. And then it's like the old crap. Like, we got it all of a sudden. We weren't planning on being aggressive. We were planning on sitting here, but now we literally only have one more of our cluster of guys that we really like. So then that's when you see teams do stuff that, as of like 24 hours ago, they had no intentions of doing.

Yeah.

All right, sweet. I want to go back real quick to what you just said about the moving around and maybe everyone's staying put, which will be very funny because we had a lot of talk. It always happens. But, you know, oh, the Patriots want to move out. The Cardinals are definitely going to move out. The Chargers want to move out. All these teams move around. So how far could JJ McCarthy fall if everyone sticks their pick? And essentially the Vikings are saying, we'll wait this out and just take him at eleven. Would that be where it goes?

Yeah, I don't think he gets, I mean, that little quarterback alley, like 1112, 13, I don't think he would go beyond that. I don't think it'll be like a Levis situation where he dropped, you know, all the way to the second round. But I was sniffing around this morning because I. There's so much stuff flying around and, like, one of the teams had told me, like, hey, I wouldn't be surprised if, when it was all said and done, if Pennix, like, went over McCarthy, like, if. If the Minnesota Vikings just held their ground and said, we're comfortable with either one of these guys. And, like, I wouldn't even rule out the fact that they might take, you know, Pennix over McCarthy. I don't think that's going to happen. I still think, you know, that would be the McCarthy spot, but if he gets by the Giants, then I don't, you know, I know Denver, you know, the Zach Wilson thing, I don't think that changes much there. But everything I got from them was they were more likely to move back than the. Than to trade up. So, yeah, maybe. Maybe we don't get as much movement as we, as we thought.

There's always teams going to trade down, but if you can't find a partner to come up, I mean, you got to stick and pick.

Yeah. Yeah.

What's interesting to me about this draft is there's not a lot of buzz around the defense side of the ball. There are a few talented players that are, that are in that top ten conversation. Dallas Turner's one I know that the Falcons are interested in, but if there's a, if there's a comparison you can make Dallas Turner this year, how does he stack up against some of the other edge rushers that we've seen get drafted in the top five over the last ten years?

Yeah, he's not in that group. I mean, he's, I mean, just go with his teammate like him and Will Anderson, I think Will Anderson was on another level as a player. I think I ended up with. Dallas is like 13 on my list overall. So that's, I mean, he's a good player. He's got, he's got some intriguing tools to work with, but he's not a, you know, a dominant edge player. I don't think we have one of those. That's why, like, you could, you could scrimmage it out and you can come away with scenarios where we could have, like, all offense in the top ten. Like, that wouldn't, you know, wouldn't totally shock me because, like, some, some of the points that I'm curious about, that I'm most fascinated about, like I was told that Atlanta at eight was going to be, you know, that would be the edge rusher spot and it would be Dallas Turner versus Lotu, who, you know, it's like the, he's the most natural edge rusher. But then I'm looking at it, I'm looking at the connections and I'm like, okay, well, the defense, according to the Atlanta Falcons, was his head coach at Washington, who, and Jimmy Lake, who, they literally retired him.

Like, he went and saw five doctors and they medically said, you can't play. He goes to UCLa and takes off. So I'm going, well, I know he must like the kid because he recruited him and he coached him, but then he's also keenly aware of some of the risks medically there. So, like, those are the puzzle pieces trying to put together. And then, like with nine, you know, I've been thinking, everybody's telling me, edge rush or edge rusher with the bears at nine, and I'm going, man, when you take the quarterback, number one, like, every decision is about making sure that pick looks right. I'd rather have, I'd rather have one too many studs on offense and worry about fixing, you know, maybe some of the other holes on defense, but when their defense was good after the sweat trade last year, I mean, what would you rather do to me? I'd rather just, I'm going to go get a tackle or I'm going to go get Roma Doonze.

Yeah.

I think for the Bears at nine, it's very simple. It's like if you have one of the three receivers, you can take them. If you have one of the two or three tackles, which one, one of those will be available, you take him. And then if someone offers you a crazy deal, because the Bears, like, they have one in nine, they only have four picks in the whole draft. So if someone offers you something crazy to then get maybe a second this year and a second next year, you listen. But I agree, like, this is, this is, this is all about Caleb Williams now. Just set him up. More offensive line, better, more wide receivers, better worry about the defense later in the draft and maybe next year.

Yeah, that's, I mean, that's what I think. And then on the, unlike the Washington side of things, I've been beating the drum of, okay, if you're going to take Jaden at two, like, are you really comfortable with your tackle situation, that you're going to wait it out till 36 and 40 for a tackle? They're like, they almost feel like they have to come back in, get one of those tackles.

I think we just found the trade. Give us 36 and 40, you can.

Get nine, get up to nine.

Deal.

Yeah.

I mean, I'd be curious to see what those numbers look like. I haven't looked at the trade chart, but I would think that's, I, if I'm the bears, I think I would.

I think I do that. So maybe a third round.

36 and 40.

Yeah, this will do that.

But then you have to give us the Montez sweatpick.

No, no, no.

Deal. No, that is.

No, yeah, that is the pick, right?

Is the. It is.

That's the pick. That's why we have. That's why it would be that.

I don't like that boomerang.

Yeah.

I don't like rain back.

That just feels insulting to me to stack out l on top of l, but I'll consider it. If I start to panic during draft night, I might give you a call.

Okay.

So I hit you up last night, Daniel, about this, because I wanted you to. I didn't want to put you on the spot. I always like to contextualize the entirety of the draft. So I asked you for people, like, I asked you the question, if you ranked each position, how deep does it go in terms of second contract, starter guys. So, like, and you, you don't have to do, like, each offensive lineman. It could be offensive lineman in general. But I'm always just wondering in terms of the depth of the draft, especially when people are watching the draft on day two, day three, where they're like, okay, we know we can get, we don't know all these names, but you know where the deep positions are in this year's draft.

Yeah. So I was very strict with how I did this, first of all. Like, look at the professionalism on the, I mean, whoa, really? I mean, this is on the Detroit foundation hotel official stationery here, but I was strict with it. So you can, you can extrapolate this, be honest. But like a comp, like, my confidence levels high. So it'll tell you, this will give you a feel of the strength of the positions.

Yeah.

So like wide receivers, ten to twelve of them.

Wow.

Like, there's ten to twelve that I feel pretty confident they're going to their second contract, same team, commit to them type players. That's the, that was the deepest. Next up would have been offensive tackles at eight to ten, which is a, it's actually a really big number for offensive tackles.

Yeah.

Compared to most years. So that would be number two, number three. You kick over to the defensive side of the ball, be corners and that you're talking like seven to eight, you know, of those corners. So those are the three deepest position that, you know, running backs. For obvious reasons, I would like zero to two, you know, like, there's not going to be, it's not a great running back class. This has nothing to do with the devaluing the position, all that. It's just not a, it's just not a great running back class. It is not a good tight end class. Wipe it one to two on their interior offensive lines. Pretty solid. Like five to six. So that would be, you know, when you combine the interior offensive line in the tackle group, it's a really, really good offensive line draft.

Okay.

And then, so you go to in, like, safety is not great. Four to five defensive tackles, edge rushers, those are both four to five, four to six. So linebacker is not good. Three to four. So it's, it's literally receivers, tackles, corners, those, that's the strength of the draft.

I love it, though. Cause that's, that's the kind of stuff that I love knowing going in that like, all right, if there's ten to twelve receivers that you confidently feel, obviously, draft is hard to predict.

Yeah.

But these, we're talking about guys that are going to get their second contract that you, because that's really the goal here. When you draft the player, it's really, you're drafting them to try to get to a second contract. That means they were good enough to be on your team for five to seven, eight years. So if you're a team looking for a receiver, you don't have to panic. You know that in the second round, there's going to be a lot of guys out there that you can pick up that could be part of your team for the next five, seven years.

Yeah, and that's, and that's one of the reasons, too. Like when you just boil it down to individual decisions and if the Bears don't trade out at nine and they're sitting there and you've got the tackle versus the receiver, even though I've said it's a deep top, the tackles are going to be gone. Like those, those 810 guys are going to fly. So the receiver, you still get a chance to get a really good receiver with your next, you know, they don't have a two, but, you know, you get the gist of it. The depth is going to run a little bit longer at the receiver position than any of these other spots.

Yeah.

One of my favorite stories in each draft is there's always seems to be like one or two really good offensive tackles. Maybe a left tackle in college, maybe a right tackle in college, but there's a team that loves their talent, but they just don't have a need at that side of the line. So they draft a guy and then they're like, well, he can learn how to play right tackle or he can shift them over to the left. Are there any guys in this draft right now that jump off the charts in terms of their ability where a team might say, okay, we're going to have this guy switch sides.

Well, I mean, look, you can start, right with five with the Chargers because, you know, I'm, it's interesting decision I was having to talk with, with a guy last night about this, uh, with a general manager. We were saying alt was, you know, he's played left. If he goes to the Chargers, they're not going to move. Rashaun Slayer, the guy's an all pro left tackle. So. And then some people would voice concern to me of like, wow, you're going to ask alt to switch positions? He's a left. He's never played on the right side. And this GM was like, you really? I mean, he's played offensive tackle, left tackle for two years. This kid was a tight end who converted to left tackle within two years of playing a position he's never played in his life. He's a top ten pick. You don't think it's. I think it would be a lot easier to move from left tackle to right tackle than move from tight end to left tackle. So he's like that. They'll figure it out. He'll be fine. So people, some people don't like it of moving a guy from one side to the other.

Others have more concern. But like, a guy like Fuaga from, from Oregon State, who's a really good tackle, right tackle. I know teams, like, with him specifically, who have an aging tackle, and they're like, look, the thing I like about him, he's our, he's our right guard year one, and then once our tackle ages out, we can kick him out and do that. So, you know, I think there's, there's different ways of looking at it, but there are some teams that are more strict. Like, hey, he's been in a left handed stance his whole life. I'm not going to ask him to, you know, I don't want to draft him and move him over to the other side.

Yeah. Yeah.

Can you give us your top three freaks in this draft? Athletic freaks?

Ooh. Yeah. I would say, I mean, Brian Thomas is way up there. Um, you go, Brian Thomas. The receivers are going to be the easy ones. And, and Adnai Mitchell, both those guys, LSU and Texas, like, total, total freak show dudes. And then I would say, if I want to get somebody on the defensive side of the ball, absolute freak. Well, I mean, I think in his own way, I think Byron Murphy's got some freak to him. You know, defensive tackle from, from Texas. He's not a huge dude, but just super, super twitched up and explosive.

What about, what about a freak who's going to go late in the draft that is like, raw, where you're like, all right, he's not, he hasn't played enough football or he hasn't been coached enough, but everything that he has, size wise, speed wise, if he puts it all together, he will be a real gem.

Yeah. I'll give you this name. It's kind of a fun. One was Travis Clayton. This dude. So this dude's six seven. He's 301 pounds. He's a tackle. He ran four eight one. I say he's a tackle. He's from England, so he hasn't played. He's played soccer, he's been a boxer and he's been a rower. I don't have any idea how any of that translates to the NFL, but I did spend 15 minutes of a Saturday watching a workout and I've convinced myself that it's six round. This guy's end up being an unbelievable player. I put college like, I have my excel sheet. You know, like the position, the name, like the height, weight, speed, the grade, and then the ranking. And I have the college in there. I put college like England.

I don't know.

I don't know how I. What do I do with that?

I love those guys, though.

Tight ends. That would be awesome.

He, dude, I'm telling you, like, I. I've never given somebody so much credit for running over a bag, but I was like, this is graceful.

Look at this guy move.

This is beautiful.

Yeah, what if he was? Yeah, he could be, he could be like a Kyle Brady type where it's like he's just another offensive lineman and he also can. Can run and catch balls.

No one can tackle him.

Yeah, yeah, no, what was the guy, why am I a. George Fant was another one who is like, remember Seattle just used him as like the 6th offensive lineman for like 40% of the snaps one year?

Yeah, I think that was that. The Tom cable years where he was just like, I'll take anybody that's big and I'll teach them how to play offensive line.

Yeah, yeah, that's it. And we're going to play all of them.

Yeah.

What about the s two cognition test? We're big fans of it. We think that it was, it's a very valuable tool that can be used to determine which quarterback should drop to number two. So are they, our team still using it or is there. I guess maybe a more interesting way to ask would be like, what's, what's the new s two cognition test this year? Where there's a, there's like an edge that teams are trying to get with some sort of new technology that's very.

Important to them in post. Are you going to put like some Sarah McLachlan music underneath this, this conversation with it in memory of the SSD? Yeah, I mean, I, look, I know a bunch. I know like, athletes first is a huge agency and they had Stroud and like, none of their guys took it this year. Like, they. And I think that it's not just them. I think there's other people that their players aren't going to take it anymore after all that information got out. I think everybody's always trying to find like, the cheat code of doing this, of like, evaluating quarterbacks. And I'm like, I just, I don't think there is one, you know, there's no test. There's no stat. There's no, like, the old parcels, like, you know, formula. If you drop them through that formula and the number starts and graduated and all captain and all that stuff, like, there is no. There's no cheat code. And it's like, I don't want to. It sounds weird to say because I'm like, I can disqualify myself here, but at the end of the day, it almost feels more like a coin flip on these quarterbacks and more so that anybody has the exact answer of how to.

How to figure it out.

I'll actually give you a cheat code. I think. I think we know what the new. The new science is going to be to determine whether or not a quarterback will be successful. It's you take them to top golf and then you have them compete against each other.

Top golf.

And then that's a great way to figure out how you're definitely not going to draft a bust.

Yeah.

I mean, but I see this is. I think of being the scout in the situation. Like, if I was in the room and they're like, guys, like, we're at top golf. If I have a big grade on the quarterback and he's just crushing it. Right? Crushing drives at top golf. I'm like, this guy's so athletic. Literally, you. Any sport, he can do it. Like, he's a natural competitor. Like, he's great at everything. If he goes out there and he literally is shaking everything, he can't hit the ball straight. Like, this guy is so obsessed with football. Like, you think he has time to go golf. Like, this guy is just grinding tape. Like, he's not out there on his free time hitting the golf ball. Like, this is the guy you want. So I could swing it either way.

Yeah, you can. It always fun to do that.

The.

Just whatever. Like, it's the JJ McCarthy conundrum where you're like, oh, he's. He didn't play. He didn't throw a lot, but when he did throw is awesome of. You can just convince yourself one way or the other on the argument.

Yeah, 100% on the McCarthy thing. Like, the. One of my favorite stories with him through this draft process is he's watching tape with somebody and they're going through his tape kind of. He's answering, like, what he sees all this kind of stuff, and they're, in the end, I don't remember what game it was. He's like, they get to the 20 and going in, get to the 20 and JJ goes like, you can fast forward it. And he's like, well, no, I want to see, like, your reads. And what he's like, it's Michigan football. Like, we're, we're going to run it six times and score. Like, you can fast forward. And he's like, look, we did all this stuff in practice every day, but in. I don't know how you argue with Michigan. Like, their philosophy was like, we don't have to. Like, we can beat all of these teams by just doing this. Why? Why would we do anything else?

Yeah, I agree. All right, another question. This is, this is real nitty gritty stuff that I know that you can answer. I love to think ahead. What does next year's draft look like and what are teams thinking in relation to next year's draft? Where they're like, this, this position is going to suck next year. We got to get it this year.

Well, I know I was talking to a GM who had this conversation with his owner because the owner wanted to say what's coming down the line at the quarterback position. And the GM was like, well, right now it doesn't look great, but, like, last year at this time, we wouldn't have been talking about Jaden Daniels, the Joe Burrow year. We wouldn't have been talking about Joe Burrow. Like these guys. Every year these guys come out of the woodwork and you see guys improve. They'll transfer, get in the right spot. I mean, but looking ahead, it doesn't look great at that position right now, but the, you know, like, his message to his owner was like, there's always going to be right. There's always going to be quarterbacks. So even though we don't know who they are at this point in time, I don't think you can panic this year and say, oh, we trade everything. Let's go up and get one of these guys we don't love, but we don't know what's coming next year. You kind of just got to have some faith that those guys will emerge.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's kind of pointless to look that.

Far in the future because I love doing it.

Anything could happen. Yeah. Yeah.

Just been like, well, we got to get it now. You can convince it's similar to JJ McCarthy or top golf and you just convince yourself one way or the other.

And then if there's, like, a quarterback you project already as being really high next year and he doesn't quite live up to those expectations next year, you still kind of have that high grade on him because you're like, well, you know, he had that body of evidence of the past, so you can never really be wrong about that.

Yeah, right.

It's great. It's good. What mock draft are you on right now?

Is this mock 4.0?

I think I've done four. I've got my last one. I got to turn it in today as we're recording this, and then that'll come out tomorrow night. So I used to, like, push, push back on it because I'm like, dude, if you just let me get, like, to Thursday, because you'll hear more stuff and blah, blah, blah. And then I realized two things. Number one, stop taking this so seriously. It's a mock draft. And number two, the information you get in the last 24 hours tends to be, like, the worst information in the entire process. So just turn it in Tuesday morning and be done with it.

Yeah.

So what would you grade yourself for? What's. What does success look like for your most recent mock draft? Like, if you get six, seven guys in the right spot, what is it?

I don't think it's more than, like, ten, honestly. Like, I really don't. But to me, I always kind of look at it and see, of the 32 players, like, how many of the 32 players that went in the first round did you have in the first round? Like, hopefully, it's at least, like, 25, you know, 26 of those guys. So we're talking about the right. The right people, basically. But, you know, one trade, and the whole thing's, you know, it's all screwed. Once you get one of those trades, that happens, and there's no way to predict that stuff. So I I don't. I used to like, oh, man.

What?

Like, talk to 90 people and then stress over this stuff, and I'm like, just kind of use some logic, common sense. Look at how they've done things and throw it in there and move on.

Yeah.

What's your worst miss when it comes to a mock draft?

Hmm?

Oh, I mean, like, there's misses like this every year. Like, last year, I was told that Indy was either Levis or Richardson. Like, it was. That was still was. Those two guys. One of those two guys. So I'm like, well, flip a coin. I'll go with. I'll go with Levis. And then he doesn't, you know, he doesn't go. He not only doesn't go there, he drops out of the whole, whole first round.

Yeah.

So there's guys. There's stuff like that that happens all the time.

What, uh, so you were obviously, you know, a scout, you're in war rooms. Uh, whenever a draft completes. I know. Personally, I'm just like, yeah. What? The bears nailed it. Because you have, you know, between the draft and when they start playing football, you can just convince yourself that, yeah, we got every great pick. This is awesome. A plus. Was there ever a draft where you guys were like, we actually didn't do that great? Or is it, like, everyone we love? Like, you're like, maybe like, oh, we really wanted this guy, and we weren't able to get him. We just don't feel that great about the draft we just submitted.

Yeah, I mean, I've had a draft in Cleveland. We didn't pick till the fourth round. I mean, so it's like, that was brutal. I ate a lot of cookies in the draft room that year. Just bored out of my mind. But, yeah, that one. I mean, we didn't know what. And it ended up not being very good, but we. You didn't know what you had at that point in time with that group. But I know before I got to the Ravens, I know that they, you know, like, I think it was ed. Have been the Ed Reed draft or the Ray Lewis draft, one of those hall of famers where they had targeted another player who didn't end up being great. And they were kind of, you know, let down and bummed about that a little bit. And then after, like, one mini rookie manicamp, like, holy crap. Like, yeah, this worked out. Uh, this worked out quite well for us.

Yeah.

It is so funny because it's just like, I just never even thought, like, a draft room could just walk out and be like, damn, we kind of blew that. Because you'd think that no matter what, you just like, all right, whatever we got. Like, we have some time to work with these guys. You don't know what. That's the beauty of a draft pick. You don't know what. You can always just think of their ceiling, not their floor. But just walking out of a draft room being like, fuck, we kind of fucked.

There's been. I mean, there's been times. I. For sure, I know one year I was in Philadelphia where there was a player we took in the second or third round that just individually, I had a very low grade on. And it's like. It's the weirdest feeling in the world, man, because you're like, for my livelihood, I need this to be a really good player, and hopefully we win and we all get playoff bonuses. But there's also the part of, like, I didn't think this guy was very good. Yeah. And so it's like, is this reflect on me? Isn't it? You know, as an evaluator? And it was one of those deals where I think we kind of went off of more of, like, you know, closer. Somebody had a close relationship with the coach, the college coach, and kind of was kind of word over. Over what you've seen, and he didn't, he did not end up being a good player. But that's a, that's a weird, it's a weird vibe when you're, like, individually, like, I don't really like this dude, but now I hope he's great.

It's a. Yeah, it would be a tough victory lap to take, too, if you were like, I don't like this guy. They drafted him, and then he told you guys.

Yeah.

And then, yeah.

Like, he misses. He misses a tackle in a game that cost us the playoffs. I'm like, I told you guys. Yeah, you guys were wrong.

Yeah.

But by the way, it is, I know it's a weird feeling for guys who are doing it as their job in the scouting rooms, but it's actually a very relatable feeling to all of us because I don't think I've ever done a fantasy football draft where I'm like, I love my team. I literally submit it, and I'm like, what the fuck? That was a terrible. I hate my team. I despise my team already. I'm a bad drafter.

Yeah.

Do you read.

That's real.

Yeah.

Do you read the grades for the drafts?

I know I fortunately, have been out of the grade business. I had to do that my first couple years at NFL Network, and I don't push back on much stuff, but, like, that one was like, can we, we just please find somebody else to do that? Like, I I have no interest in it. I think it's so, it's, like, the silliest thing, but obviously, it gets a lot of attention and, and people read it and, and all that, but I just think it's like, do it. Do it in two years, and then it's like a, then it's a real exercise. But this is kind of silly. All you're doing is reinforcing whatever your own opinion was before the draft.

Exactly.

There's no facts. There's no facts involved in any of it.

Yeah.

You're mad at teams for not doing what you would have done in that draft, and you're like, fucking. My favorite is always the Seahawks draft from 2012, where they drafted Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner. I think Bruce Irvin as well. And then I think Bleacher report gave him an f and said none of these picks made any sense whatsoever, which, actually, now that I'm thinking about, they might have been. Bleacher report might have been right about Russell.

Russell Wilson. Yeah.

Took ten years. Super bowl.

Yeah, they're correct.

Two Super bowl appearances later.

Now I'm the idiot for mocking the guy that gave the bad grade on draft nights. So hand up. I'll do what I'm wrong.

Yeah, it's true.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know what the. People read it, though, so people care.

Oh, I read every single one thing.

Yeah.

The funny thing is, you. You'll be shocked how many team like, gm's that get pissed at these grades. What do you care? Like, who cares, man? Like, you like him, hopefully he's a good player, but, like, this doesn't mean anything coming from anybody out here.

Yeah, I also just seek out whoever gives the bears the highest grade. I'm just like, I'll just find an a somewhere. Yeah, someone gave us an a somewhere, and then I'll just like that guy. Fuck.

He's.

Does anybody go lower than a c?

Yes. Yes.

Sometimes. Sometimes they'll do. Like, I think when the. With the lions picked Gibbs in the first round, I think a lot of.

A lot of.

Yeah.

Had them as, like, D minus, D plus. Because they're like, that was a reach for running back.

That.

That is what really sets off the. The draft graders is if you reach for a running back, they'll be like, fucking.

Yeah, yeah, the red pen comes out.

Yeah, exactly. All right, so I got one last question. DJ, there's been awesome. We love having you on every year. Robot question, rhoback.com promo code. Take 20% off your first purchase. Qzips, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts. Roback.com. Give us one name. Late first round, second round that you're in love with. So that way, when we watch the draft, we can be like, oh, that's DJ's guy. Great pick by that team.

Oh, that's a good one. Let me see. Late first round, early second round. You know, I like who I really like. Teams are kind of split on, but I really like him. Is Ennis Rakestraw the corner from Missouri? He didn't run great. He ran like four, five, one. But, like, he's. He's like, he's. He's so fun to watch. Like, he's so tough. Like, you'll see pulling guards. Like, he'll he'll go.

Right?

He'll go attack him. Like, he just plays way bigger than his size. And he went up against a lot of the top dudes, the SEc, and held up really well. So he's one, I think will slide a little bit just because he ran, like, four, five, one, and he's 183 pounds. But, like, I think you'll be watching games on Sunday next year and be like, dude, this guy's. This guy's making plays pretty good. He's like a. He's like, a little bit like a Kirkland brand Witherspoon from. From last year. He's kind of like the, like the knockoff.

All right.

So when we see the name Ennis rake straw come through, we're going to be like, that's a great pick.

Costco.

Yeah.

Yeah, Costco. Although that's.

I mean, Kirkland brand is awesome.

Yeah.

Their hot dogs are still cheap as hell.

Yeah.

Is it still a buck 50? I have not been in a while.

Yeah.

They're never going to change it. It's fantastic. It's the best deal.

Yeah.

I feel like every time I would go there, too. I feel like the churro got longer. Like, they just keep giving you more churro.

They're pranking us.

Yeah.

And then watching the pizza sauce. The pizza machine. My kids like to watch the pizza machine where they do the sauce, and that's pretty cool.

Yeah.

I think their vodka was ranked best vodka in America. Like, it tastes better than right now. We're just doing a commercial for Costco, but, yeah.

What about. What about the golf balls? Because I feel like every time I'm trying to find my ball, I find, like, four Kirkland balls.

Yeah.

Those are the most lost golf balls. You're absolutely right, because I think people that buy their golf balls from Costco are the ones that are spraying with the tree.

Yeah.

That's the spray chart for Kirkland brand is just the woods.

Yes. And I think there's also, obviously, you get them in bulk. I would imagine it's a very good deal. Which would leave you less likely to want to hunt that thing down like that. Let's forget it. Let's just keep going.

It's a fascinating study. My last question is how. How deep into the second round can a team delude themselves and be like, well, our early second round pick is. That's basically your first rounder. Is it like, the top five picks.

Of the second round?

You can say essentially your first round pick.

I think if you're taking a wide receiver in the top of the second round, you can be like, I got a first round player just because, you know, maybe they get pushed down a little bit because the depth there, I think, you know, for the most part, the defensive side of the ball.

Yeah.

I don't think you're getting a, you know, you're not going to get a first round player in the top of the second round in this draft. So I would say if your team drafted a wideout in the second round, you can, you can, you know, pump your chest a little bit and say, dude, we just got a first round type player with a first round grade here in the second round.

How many first round grades do you have in this draft?

Well, it's kind of, you know, the way that. The way it is, it wouldn't say like, just like first round grade, second round grade. I would say, like, where the fall off point is, I think you get to, I can probably go like 2022 deep is around where that spot would be.

Okay.

And then I think it starts to. Starts to drift off a little bit.

I like that. I love the fall off points.

Yeah.

22 1st round picks, but 32 picks.

Yeah.

Those other guys shouldn't be there.

To that point. Like 24 and 34. Like, I don't know that it's. That you're not getting that different of a player.

Okay. That's good.

That's good to know. All right, well, dj, thank you as always. Best of luck. We'll be watching. You're the best. And, yeah, good luck on the draft on Thursday night.

I appreciate it. Congratulations to both your teams. I'm looking forward to seeing that NFC championship game next year.

Yeah, we're. Yeah, next year. Think about it this way. Next year, this time we're going to be having you on and we're going to be like, so the Bears pick 32. The commanders pick 30. We beat them in the NFC championship game. This is crazy.

Yeah, we're not actually, we probably won't have you on next year because we won't care about the draft because we're drafting so late in the first round.

That it's like, yeah, you can, you.

Can go on Max's podcast that he does with the Eagles drafting number two guys.

Yeah, you guys are talking baseball this time.

Yeah, exactly. All right. Thanks so much, DJ.

All right, guys, take care. Later.

Enough is something completely different.

Okay, we now welcome on our very good friend recurring guests. It is Field Yates from ESPN and he will be on your television on draft night. Let's start there, field. Before we get into maybe some draft intel that you have for us. How are we feeling about draft night? What is, what's your exact role? And are you like, this is your first time doing like, the whole thing, right?

Yeah, this is my first time doing this capacity. So on Thursday and Friday, I'll be part of the ABC broadcast. So ESPN has the traditional ESPN broadcasts, which will be Kuiper and Greeny and Booger and Lewis Riddick on the primary sets with Molly McGrath doing the player interviews. And there might be a couple others that I'm missing there, but that'll be sort of the people that you'll be hearing the most from on ESPN and on ABC. It'll have a little bit of a different feel to it. It's called sort of the storytelling broadcast. So you might hear a bit more about the players, about the humans, excuse me, on top of the players, but it'll be a lot of familiar faces to college football people. It will be Reese Davis hosting with Kirk Herbstry, Desmond Howard, and then Nick Saban making his ESPN ABC debut. So that'd be sweet. Pete Thammel, myself, and then Laura Rutledge will be doing the player interviews on the ABC side. And then on Saturday, we got the full rounds, four through seven. I'll be back over on the ESPN set as we reduce down to just one broadcast.

So you're doing the tragedy broadcast cast.

I hope there's not too much tragedy, but I've thought about that. Yeah, I was reading through. So I've been spending. You know, at some point you kind of have to turn the page on, like, you know, all the film study and all, like the various notes you've been taking on players and just kind of remind yourself about the things that you've, you've seen or things that you've tracked over the past eleven or so months. And I was looking for a few more uplifting stories because I am mindful of the people that feel like the draft, which is supposed to be this very celebratory night, can turn a bit somber sometimes.

That's smart. How many, how many names do you know right now?

Oh, good question. There are probably upwards of. Yeah. So ESPN asked me how many wanted to have ranked, and actually Kuiper gave me a little hint here, but I thought was a useful one. Was. So I ended up ranking 203. SPn.com probably had closer to 330 or 340 players ranked. The reason why we cut it off, though, is I think this is probably logical to you guys, but people who watch the draft broadcasts or a little bit less football guys may not necessarily think of it this way, is as you get further and further away from player number one, the difference between, like, player 150 and 190 is pretty negligible. Right. It's a lot of times as simple as, like, preference, maybe the system you're playing and et cetera, but it even gets, you know, more and more difficult to sort of figure out the difference between 220 and 250. So Kuiper said, hey, cut it off at 200, at least in year one, because the last thing you want is player 325 in your board to be drafted at 110th and people saying, why the heck did whatever this team reached by 200 plus slots, according to your big board, when the reality is it might be that player 110 and player 320 aren't that dissimilar of players.

Even if the rankings suggest a huge.

Gap, are you taking at the end of the draft because you want to control where he's going to go and you think, oh, there's another team that's, that's closer to him geographically that he might end up going to as a free agent. So let's just use our pick to get that guy in camp.

Yeah, that's sort of the mentality.

Yeah.

I mean, I think the reality of day four rounds, four through seven, two guys, as you guys, I'm sure, know this, but, like, it's just so much of it is much more like beauty in the eye of the beholder.

Right.

There are certain teams who, their offensive line preferences, more athletic guys. Some teams prefer size. Some teams prefer, you know, corners that maybe don't necessarily have great size but have great speed. Other teams can compromise speed for size. So. Well, I think the first, you know, 20, 25, 30 players on the board are probably going to be names that the league evaluates pretty closely. And certainly in the first, you know, ten picks, that's going to be the case. But the further we get from pick number one, the more and more likely we are to have some curveballs. And as a result of that, those rankings can become, at least in my mind, a bit more difficult to accurately pinpoint. When you're scouting for 32 teams as a scouting as opposed to just scouting for one.

Yeah.

The first two rounds are for criticizing all the other teams, and then rounds like three through seven are basically selling yourself on whoever your team picks. Being like, this is actually a steal.

We got diamond cam leave.

We got this guy.

Yeah. Yeah.

100%.

Yeah.

Like, there's, there's a couple of kids. There's a handful of players from both North Dakota and South Dakota. North Dakota State, South Dakota State, University of South Dakota, who are all good players, but I really can't wait for people to say, like, with absolute conviction, like, we got that guy in the fourth. Like, we got him in the fourth.

Kidding me.

That corner from, from South Dakota, like, most people had him, you know, the third round, we got him in the fourth. Like, imagine, like, you know, we just must book the playoff tickets now.

Yeah.

So part of the exercise, for sure.

All right, so I just looked up your, your top 200. Thank you for ranking Caleb Williams number one. But I. So you have Caleb Williams number one. You have Marvin Harrison third. I feel like everyone has said that Marvin Harrison is if you just went best player, like, best, you know, pro on the board, Marvin Harrison be number one. So why did you, why do you have two quarterbacks? You have, you have Caleb Williams one, Jaden Daniels two. Why do you have them ahead of Marvin Harrison?

Yeah.

Part of his, the positional value. Just because, you know, if Jayden Daniels and Caleb Williams become top 15 players at their position, which, you know, obviously both the Bears and the commanders are hopeful that it's, you know, top five players, their respective positions, a top 15 quarterback is going to get paid way more than the number one wide receiver in the NFL. And I think you would argue that a top 15 ish quarterback can tilt the fortunes of a team a lot more than the number one wide receiver in the NFL. So at the very top, it feels a little bit sort of like, it just feels kind of weird when you're talking about players saying Marvin Harrison isn't the best in the NFL draft. Feels like kind of a shot at him, but it's a bit of just like baking in the value of those guys being quarterbacks. And I do feel as though, you know, this is sort of a two quarterback tier at the top of the board. I've got a lot of love for, for Drake May, who's fifth on the board as well. But I do see a gap between Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels and Drake May.

So I thought that sort of having that quarterback, quarterback been wide receiver, wide receiver, run at the very top did reflect. That's how I view this sort of draft class at the very top speaker zero.

Yeah, I would personally take Marvin Harrison junior, but we do need a quarterback in DC, so I'm happy to take quarterback. For the record, I know that Marvin Harrison is an Awl, listens every podcast. Yeah, I think I have your son ranked number one, sir. So don't, don't come at us.

The respect he deserves. Yeah, I mean, he's. And like Marvin Harrison Junior, it's really, there's like not a single thing in his game that you can point to that isn't at an above average or excellent level. That's kind of one of the cool things about this draft class, that you got three receivers at the very top in him and Malik neighbors and also Martin, then also Roma Doonze, where one of them is going to have to be the third receiver taken and it might not be until the 7th, 8th or 9th pick. And in a different draft, like, all three of those guys could easily be the number one wide receiver taken and maybe even the top three selections. So it's going to sound to one of these teams like they're getting the third best wide receiver, I guess, to the fan bases of these teams. But the reality is there's a very, very small difference at the very top between Marvin Harrison junior, Malik neighbors and Roma Dunes. A all three of those guys are part of the blue chip group that we have in this year's class. I would say along with, you know, three of the quarterbacks, plus Brock Bowers.

Like, it's pretty special. Seven or eight players at the very top of the board.

I don't know if you're looking for tips for Thursday night, but here's a tip.

Yeah.

Okay. I really wish Roma Doon's name was Romeo and Dunes. A.

That is a good one. Did you hear the reason why his name is Rome? His dad was infatuated with roman empire, so that's how they landed.

I like that about roman empire.

That's a. That's a football guy move right there.

But wouldn't it be cool? Romeo plus move.

Romeo Dunza.

Yeah.

Romeo Dunes. That would be a great NBA prospect.

Yeah.

True, true.

But Rome does work, actually.

Yeah.

I don't know if he has any basketball in his background, but if he does, might make more sense.

Oh, since you know all the stories, who's the best athlete in another sport in the draft?

Well, JJ McCarthy was an awesome hockey player in the cross player growing up. So he's a three sport athlete. He's certainly up there. Keon Coleman. Played Pion Coleman to Florida State wide receiver. Began his career at Michigan State. He was on the basketball team for a year. So he's. He was a sick athlete as well, which kind of shows up. I feel like sometimes we do that too often. We try to, you know, like DJ Burns, we tried to make that an NFL thing for a minute during North Carolina State's run to the, to the final four with Keon Coleman. Like, the basketball stuff does kind of show up. Like he, you know, plays above the rim in the red zones, like constantly making catches over defenders and going out for catches with one hand and somehow bringing them down. He certainly will be on the short list as well. There's always a handful of basketball guys. It feels like in every class I'm trying to think of anybody else that has an obvious multi sport background that I'm forgetting off the top of my head, but those two came to mind.

I love whenever that said, that's a story. Just because it's like, man, these guys just have it all where it's like, yay. Did you know that this guy was getting drafted in the top ten? Could, could throw 99 miles an hour. This guy's good at sports.

Athlete is really athletic. Crazy how that works, right?

Is there any play that you're looking at that's going to either give Roger Goodell a giant, giant, giant hug or maybe a very confusing handshake that Roger Goodell won't be able to keep up with?

Ooh, good one. I gotta shoot. There's only 13 players going to the draft this year. Do you guys see how small that list is?

People are getting scared, huh?

They don't want the green.

I don't know what's going on. Yeah, I don't know if that's because. I don't know if it's just because there's a little bit more uncertainty in terms of who's going to go there. I don't know if players are wary of being the guy left in the green room potentially overnight. I feel like all 13 guys that are, that are going, I feel pretty good about them being taken in the first round. So I have to go back and look at the list. But, you know, this offensive line class is full of absolutely massive humans. If Amerius mims went, he's from Georgia, if he is going to the draft, and I don't believe he was invited, he would be a leader in the clubhouse. I saw this note. ESPN stats and information group does a great job of pulling together notes on, like, the top 200 prospects. And I know you guys love, like, talk of wingspan and hand size and things like that during the pre draft process, and they dropped in there that Amerius mims Wingspan is a quarter of an inch shorter than Giannis is. So just give you some perspective in terms of how big this human is.

So I feel like if he goes to the draft and I don't think he was on that list. But if he did go, if he decided to make a last minute call and fly to Detroit, I feel like a Marius Mintz would swallow Roger Goodell.

It'd be very funny if as the first Zoomer quarterback Caleb Williams just gave a big kiss on the lips.

Oh, I would love it.

Just like made out with Goodell, maybe cup his balls.

Yeah.

What? Wait, who's got the big, biggest hands?

I believe it's Patrick Paul, whose older brother, Chris Paul, not to be confused with Rosario's. Chris Paul plays for the commanders who actually took over as a starter second half of last season. I think he's at like ten and a half inch hands. Pennix has huge hands as well. You know, it's weird. I feel like there's been less talk about hand size this year with the quarterbacks, which is good. I don't know if I've seen this and I haven't been doing this nearly as long as Kuiper, but I ran it off him and he did not have, have a great recall of a player with this kind of measurement. But Olufsenu, the left tackle from Penn State who could be a top ten pick, certainly a top 15 or 18 pick guys to stud. He was actually Caleb Williams teammate in high school, so he protected for him for a few years there and then went to Penn State. He has, I think someone saw this like one of the smallest hands on record at the combine. Eight and a half inches for an offense. So you would just think that an offensive lineman just based off of, you know, the, the position they play and their overall size would have bear clasp.

He's got eight and a half inch hands. So that's an important stat that people, people need to be aware of for Thursday night. I'm not sure what it means, but it's important.

That's really tiny.

Like, that's a good bizarre for human being. I like that a lot, too. Have any team taken our advice and started measuring quarterbacks to the eyeball and not speaker two I've seen.

Well, we.

Do we have any quarterbacks this year that have a, like a hairstyle that would make the top of the head a little bit like, trickier?

Bo Nicks has done the spiky hair. Bo Nicks done the spike.

Yeah.

Well, I was kind of surprised. I saw Bo at the senior bowl and then I went to Oregon pro day. He was bigger than I realized, maybe. I just, I don't know why I assumed that he wasn't like all of 6262 and a half, but Bo kind of surprised me with this size.

All right, so let's talk real quick about, like, some of the scuttle butt that's going on right now. I saw a report that the Patriots are trying to trade out of three. So how much is that reality? And what, what would be their plan there? They're now saying we don't want a quarterback.

Yeah.

So first of all, I had to stop listening to McShay with you guys on Monday, about 15 minutes in because I was starting to realize that Todd and I had heard some similar thing. I love Todd. Obviously, he's awesome and, and he was great on, he's great with you guys from the part that I heard. But I was realizing we were starting to hear the same things and I was like, you know what? I don't want to come on the show and simply regurgitate what I think Todd had said. A lot of it sounded pretty good to me, so I had to cut myself off. So if this, some of this sounds like repeat from McShay, I don't want people to think that it's just because I heard McShay, but rather to sort of support that, like maybe there's some validity to some of the things.

I like this.

We are here.

You did, you did your due diligence. We are going to need you to, after the draft, finish that episode for the numbers.

Oh, no, I'll do it. I'll do it after we finish today. I still want to hear what Todd had to say. That's loyalty. But so the Patriots, I think they would be. I think they would listen. I think we'll listen to it. To an offer at pick three only because, you know, obviously if their board is Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels and Drake May, JJ McCarthy in terms of the third and fourth quarterbacks, then you're getting at best your third or fourth quarterback. And QB's can kind of be like real estate, right? Like there might be whatever, a few houses on the market for the same price. And you see, you know, one differently than the other. And, you know, reasonable minds can agree on things and reasonable minds can disagree on things. That being said, the Patriots need to quarterback so bad right now. He's the roster and obviously they have so many holes. But I would be surprised if the Patriots ended up trading out of pick three. But I don't know for sure right now. And I suppose this could change with like one tweet from Schefter or a big insider that suggests where the Patriots could turn.

Think it will end, it would end up being Drake May I don't think JJ McCarthy should be totally ruled out, but I do lean towards Drake in that scenario. But the problem with trading down, I've talked about this throughout the process for the Patriots or anybody else that's sort of been rumored as a potential trade down candidate that needs a quarterback is while the Patriots could trade down and maybe get the Vikings 11th overall pick, 23rd overall pick, and then a pick next year, whether it's a first round pick or something else significant is the Patriots wouldn't have a quarterback in that scenario. And then a year from now the Patriots could find their way to like six or seven wins. I don't know that I view them right now as a team that's going to be very good. That being said, as the NFL, right. Like the Giants this past season are a good example of this. If the Giants had finished with the fourth worst record in the NFL and had the fourth pick, we might all be talking about four quarterbacks going off the board to begin the draft without any trades whatsoever.

But instead, the Giants might not draft the quarterback, in part because in order to get up to pick four, they might have to move maybe a first round pick in 2025 along with pick six. So you might get a bunch of assets when you trade down, but you might just need to repurpose them a year from now to get back up, to take one of those quarterbacks. And while anything can happen and shadow Sanders and Quinn, yours and a handful of other quarterbacks certainly are going to be talked about a lot going into the 2025 draft cycle. You just don't know until those guys go through their final season. Jayden Daniels is a good example of how a player can certainly rise way up. And then Drake May is an example of a guy who, you know, going into the season, people would have thought there was no way anybody could challenge Caleb Williams except for Drake May. And now Drake could. We'll see. But could be the third quarterback off the board.

All right, so when it comes to.

The quarterbacks, Caleb Williams, he's going to Chicago. We've established that the Bears are all in on him. He's going to be awesome. One of the best that we've ever seen, ever. I always like when, when teams are like leading up to the draft, you'll talk about the presumptive number one pick quarterback and then compare them, like to quarterbacks from ten years ago. Right now, that guy I feel like is still Andrew Luck, where they say is the most surefire prospect since it's always Andrew Luck.

Right?

Now, if you have a really good quarterback, but if you were to compare Caleb with the number one quarterbacks that have been drafted and, say, the last five years as prospects, where would know, I'm just curious, where. Where would you rank Caleb in terms of all the top prospects?

Because I know the answer.

Yeah, I would. I would think. And let me just make sure. So five years would be 2018 to 2022, right?

Yeah.

You know, going into the process.

Yeah.

Going into, like, not based off what we know now.

Right.

Because we do know what we know now. Yeah.

Josh and Lamar have raised, you know, have raised the bar. Right. I mean, those guys from the 2018 draft class are certainly at a different level. But I would say going in, going into the draft, it would be Caleb and Trevor sort of in a tier one by themselves. And, you know, we'll see. With Trevor, I still have a lot of optimism on what he can become. It's been kind of a weird start through the first three years, but I would say that Caleb is sort of right there with, with Trevor in terms of, like, tier one quarterbacks going into the process. Obviously, what they become after they get drafted is a whole different part of the conversation, but that's where I would view them as at least. I mean, Jaden Daniels had one of the best college seasons we've seen, maybe ever. Right? He won the Heisman Trophy, which already puts him on the shortlist, and that wasn't enough to overtake Caleb Williams. So I think that sort of suggests just how much of a shirt thing is not the word I like to use, but how strong of a prospect Caleb Williams is and why that number one pick was so valuable for the bears when you were asking me for, like, a comparison, you know, we always do this thing where we compare guys from, like, the last ten years or so.

My favorite thing with working with Kuiper is, you know, Kuiper will be like, he'll be talking about some wide receiver, like, you know, Malachi Corley, who might go in the second round. He'll be like, Phil, you know, doesn't he remind you of, like, al Tune, who got drafted in, like, 1974? And I'm like, maybe it's possible, right? But, but, Mel, you know, obviously when you got a 46 year, roll the decks prospects to work off of, his comparisons date a little bit further back than I do, but I don't recall quite what the players were like back in 1976.

All right, so we had another one I'm curious about with JJ McCarthy. There's now I'm here. This is all hearing internally, literally, in our office. There's debates that he is going to be like will Levis and that he will fall and this is all just fodder and people are pumping him up. What's the, what's the reality?

I don't think you'll fall. I don't know that he'll go third overall, which I mentioned earlier is like, I would say there's a chance. I don't know if it's a great chance. I wouldn't totally dismiss it, but he's not going to fall too far. I would think the floor for JJ McCarthy, the absolute floor, would be 11th for the Vikings, but that would be a really, like, that would be a ballsy game of chicken the Vikings will be playing if they don't move up from pick eleven. And just imagine the possibility of JJ McCarthy falling to them is in play.

Right.

Because you can make a case that, you know, obviously the Cardinals aren't taking the quarterback, the Chargers aren't, the Titans aren't. The Falcons I don't think are. The bears obviously aren't with number nine and the jets not at number ten. The problem is the Broncos at twelve and the Raiders at 13 are looming.

Right.

So all three of those teams were kind of competing against each other with this smaller every pick away from one reduces the size of the quarterback pool. So I think JJ's floor is eleven. I think the more realistic floor is probably somewhere within the first six picks because I do think we'll have at least one trade up. But my grip on like, where these quarterbacks are going to go feels a lot like, a lot weaker once we get past JJ because I think there are people that feel like Mike Pennix junior is a lock to go by 13 at the absolute latest for the Raiders. And there are others who say, I could see both he and Bo having to wait around a little while. I'm starting to move closer and closer towards Pennix. Definitely going early off the board and Bo finding his way to the first round as well.

Interesting. So if, if JJ is truly the best quarterback that's ever played at the University of Michigan, as coach Harbaugh said.

What he could say because he's counting himself.

He's counting himself and he's counting Tom Brady and he's counting everybody. If he truly believes that, wouldn't he want to draft him?

You would think so, right?

Yeah.

No respect for Denard Robinson. Others that have, have made their way through Michigan, by the way, from Jim Harbaugh it's actually kind of a brilliant play in this regard. Right? Like, I'm not saying that JJ McCarthy wouldn't have been in the conversation without Jim Harbaugh's approval. I do believe that he would be very much in this conversation. But JIm HarbauGh being the ultimate hype man has been a nice way to remind people about how good this kid and the public is, like, buying it more and more and more. And what I will say is that while I don't think GM's and head coaches are paying attention to what other GM's and head coaches are saying publicly about a player that they just spent time with. Right. No GM or head coach is going to do anything other than promote the crap out of that player. I do think owners, you know, they got these RAbbit ears right and they're hearing everything. And I think that an owner whose team might be thinking about taking JJ McCarthy in the first, you know, ten picks probably feels more solid about it because of Jim Harbaugh's words. And Jim, with that fifth overall pick, not taking a quarterback may have increased the value of that pick in a trade.

Right. So, you know, he, so he kind of, he kind of workshopped this a long time, a long time ago to kind of set his team up for a potentially more valuable trade back. If the Chargers go that way, which certainly possible. I think it's a totally reasonable case. I think there's a totally reasonable case for them to just sit at pick five and take a wide receiver given releasing Mike Williams and trading Keenan Allen. But the, the Chargers, you know, and Jim Harbaugh's history tells you, like, if there's anybody who's going to try to play this game as old school as possible and maybe not necessarily need to invest a ton of valuable resources into the wide receiver room, it might make you think at least the draft, that's, that's Jim Harbaugh and his new GM, Joe Ortiz. So I wouldn't rule out, obviously, the Chargers being a trade back team, even if, you know, Malik neighbors or Roma Doonze or Marvin Harrison junior would look perfect playing with Justin Herbert.

What, what other scuttlebutt do you got? What, what, maybe, maybe what team is kind of laying in the weeds that you're hearing little things about where, like, they might get active, they might trade up, they might trade down, they, they could be the team that changes how the draft falls.

Yeah.

I think that the first round, the first eight picks is where I think things are kind of interesting. So I think there's a chance that the first six picks are in some form or fashion four quarterbacks and two receivers, right. That would require a trade down by one of either the Chargers or the Cardinals, which I think is certainly in play. But if either of those things happens, then you'd probably have Minnesota being in the top five taking the fourth quarterback and then the Cardinals or the Chargers would take the first wide receiver and then I think the Giants would take the second wide receiver. But I think things get interesting with Tennessee. They have this big need at left tackle. And Joel from Notre Dame certainly very worthy of that 7th overall pick. Unlike the wide receiver spot where you have this like really clear, at least in my opinion, like line of demarcation. You got three like next level receivers and Marvin Harrison, junior Malik Nabors and then Roma Doonze. And then a drop with the offensive tackle class. Like, there are people around the NFL that have told me it's at least a conversation between Joe Alt and Olufsenu or Joe Alt and Tally Fuaga, who's an Oregon state offensive tackle, or Joe altitude, even Troy Fautanu from Washington.

So I think that, like, if I'm Tennessee, if I think the gap is pretty narrow and I just hired Bill Callahan, who's obviously the father of their head coach, Brian Callahan, but one of the great offensive line coaches, maybe ever in the NFL, he might say, listen, I'm comfortable with whoever we get at, let's say pick number twelve or 13 if we want to be the team that trades down and maybe, you know, somebody wants to move up to grab that third receivers. So in some ways I feel like seven and eight with Tennessee and Atlanta. We've all been mocking Joe Alton, Dallas Turner from pretty much the combine on as those two picks, one of those feels like it's due for a curveball and a trade back certainly would qualify in that category.

I like that.

I hadn't heard that one because I've been hearing mostly cardinals, you know.

Yeah, Cardinals could do for sure.

Yeah, Monty's trying to make that funny, make that pick move right now.

Yeah. Yeah.

But isn't it funny how like, and it's possible, like, I'm not, I'm not ruling this out, but like we've all, it's like a lot of people are assigning like, Monty awesome Fort's like, mo is the guy who's like constantly moving around the board and it's like he's been the GM for one draft, right. And like, by the way, they got an offer that when they made that deal last year, we were all like, holy crap. Like, that's an. It's an unbelievable win for Arizona. Right? Like, they got, obviously picked twelve, which they ended up moving back up to pick six, but they got the Texans first round pick in 2024. I remember at the time, I was like, they didn't announce it on the draft broadcast because the NFL didn't say anything, which 2024 1st round pick they were getting. And I kept thinking to myself, there's no way Houston would give up their own 2024 1st round pick.

Right?

It's got to be Cleveland's 2024 1st round pick because Houston wouldn't give up the potential of a top five or ten pick. And obviously things went very differently and Houston ended up being one of the great stories of this past season. So it's possible that Monty wants to move down, but he's got one draft of doing it right. It's like one move that has sort of defined his mo, which, for all we know, like, he might just stick around and sit at number four and take Marvin Harrison Junior because he's just that good.

Yeah. Yeah.

So you've got, obviously, Caleb number one, reading the tea leaves. It sounds like you're set on Jaden going second. I hope you're right. But we've had Drake may moving up in the odds. We've had JJ moving up in the odds. But you're pretty confident it's jaden number two.

I feel good about Jaden going number two. You know, this past week was interesting, obviously. I mean, mostly incited by Jayden Daniels agent. Right. Taking to Twitter and given the sort of the emoji, which, you know, I'm not sure there's a whole lot of good. Right. But I will say, like, I thought my think, like, the takeaway from that is more that, like, we're entering, like, kind of a different era of where athletes are, especially when they are entering the professional ranks. Right. Because of nil. That was sort of my takeaway from it is that, like, you have to kind of treat these guys a little bit differently because I'd imagine. I don't know. You know, there's been the reports that Kaylee Williams has made, like, $10 million last year at USC. So, like, these guys are probably used to from the past couple of seasons, especially this past year for Jaden when he put that team on his back and had this meteoric rise, like, probably every second of every day, being the center of attention and being sort of accustomed to people sort of expect, like, that's kind of maybe his expectations that, like, hey, when you're bringing me in, like, for the past, you know, whatever the start of last football season was, eight, nine months, like, that's been the way that I was treated.

Like, now I'm being brought in amongst several quarterbacks. Like, it's just a different time right now for athletes, I think. But I do think Jaden Daniels ends up going number two overall. Like, I don't think there was some sort of, like, serious, like, calculus behind that decision last week to have three or four quarterbacks. I think it was just kind of like the commanders, people who are in charge of that organization have been with organizations in the past that have done things similarly. And there's no rules for those pre draft visits. But I feel good about Jaden Daniels going number two. And we all know about the dual threat. We all know about, you know, the great passing numbers last year with those two great receivers. But the part that I've felt best about with Jayden Daniels throughout the process that I think gives me a lot of confidence that he's going to be, you know, very successful at the NFL level is I'm not sure I saw a more composed player in big moments last year. And I know you guys know this, but most people probably think LSU, like, you know, five stars all over the roster.

Like, there's a ton of talent every single year. That wasn't the case last year for LSU on defense, and they needed to put up 40, 45, 50 points in a game every week to have any chance of winning. And the SEC has got a lot of great defensive teams and Jayden Daniels pretty much solved them all. I mean, even Alabama, he left that game early. It was early in the fourth quarter with a head injury. He was back the next week. So it wasn't super serious, but had almost 400 yards of total offense against Nick Saban. I can't wait to see what Saban has to say on Thursday night when Jaden's taken. Because, you know, if Saban can't totally solve you, like, to me, that's another reason to believe confidently in that player.

Yeah.

Although I. It was always when Saban, they're like, you know, a mobile quarterback is Saban's kryptonite. And it was like. But he only lost like four games in like ten years. Like, but Johnny Manziel is just my favorite thing.

That one day. Yeah.

That one fateful Saturday afternoon when Saban, like, you know, God forbid he loses one game.

Yeah.

All right, I got a couple last questions. First one about the actual logistics of draft night for you. So a lot of names, lot of back stories, a lot of colleges. You are an awl. We want to protect you. How many mistakes are we going to stomach and go to bat for you? Because there will be mistakes. So, like, is it field? Yates fucks up one time, and we will defend you, but if you fuck up two times, we're going to have to be like, we don't know this guy.

Right? Yeah, I think three strikes seems reasonable. Play with some baseball rules. You mean, like. Like messing up a name or something that not, like, evaluates? Because there could be a lot of evals that we, you know, we look back three years from now, and it's like.

Yeah, that doesn't think it.

Yeah, that doesn't matter. You're saying, like, name wrong, wrong school, wrong pronunciation. Like, we got to be ready because the Internet's a mean place. So what do we say to say two mistakes?

It depends on what the mistakes are.

Yeah. All right.

So here's the only thing I'll say, and I was going to bring this up anyway, so I'm glad that you kind of led me to this. We got a very difficult group of names at the top of this year's draft board. I've been practicing these guys like crazy, but Olufsenu, Penn State, some people have been saying, olu Fashanu, his first name is complicated enough that I think he just has gone by Olu on broadcast for quite some time now that, like, it's not even worth trying. We got Tali Fuaga from Oregon State, whose. Whose first name is actually Taliesi or Taliesi, depending on who you talk to, because he's answered to both during interviews that I have watched during the pre draft process. But I was on the road for one of the pro days, and somebody said, well, if it makes you feel any better, when we met with him, he mentioned that people just call him Tali. So I've landed on Tali fuaga. Got Troy Fautanu in Washington. That's top of the. That's three guys who could be top 15 or so picks. So Layatu Lotu from UCLA, also a guy who deserves to be a top 15 pick.

So I can't. Goodell, I think, is gonna have to be very deliberate when he's going to the podium with those names. I feel like that's an underrated skill for a commissioner, but no joke, this year, some of the names.

Yeah, he's going to read 15 names. And you also have to deal with the fact that I put Romeo doomsday in your head now.

Yeah, I'm definitely calling him Romeo at some point.

That would be awesome.

Make sure if Adele messes up the pronunciation, you just jump in immediately afterwards and say it the correct way. You don't have to tell him, like, you screwed this up. Just let America know that he's an idiot.

Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, we got. I do have the ESPN pronunciation guy now, so I feel. I feel better. I feel, like, a little bit more confident right now because, you know, like, I'm sure I should be spending more time, like, going through, like, a little more film on these guys or, you know, just going through my notes. When you're. When you're juggling, you know, 340 or so names in your brain, invariably there are players that you just haven't watched as recently as others. And obviously 90, I don't know, 95% of the interest in the draft up until Saturday is Caleb Williams versus Jaden Daniels or Marvin Harrison junior versus Malik Nabors. So those 7th round guys or undrafted guys haven't gotten quite as much love. So I probably could be spending a bit more time on some of those guys right now, which I'll try to find some time for, but the pronunciation now feels like my responsibility come Thursday night.

Okay, my last question was just gonna be, how many different Williams guys do you know?

Last time alone, we've got Caleb Williams, Evan Williams. There's a. I could probably pull this up and sort it by. By last name. There's. There's got to be a few of them.

Yeah, we're high on wise, right?

Buying all the stock on Williams. No, you're not allowed to look it up.

Okay, well, I just have my list in front of me now. Top of your head.

No.

Evan Williams. Caleb Williams. Jeez, I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of them. I feel like Mike Williams is just bound to be a name. Like, there's, you know, like, just throw out the generic names and you've got a chance there.

Okay.

At least two.

Yeah. All right, my last question. Robot question rho back.com use promo code take 20% off your first purchase cuess, polos, hoodies, joggers, shorts roback.com promo code take. This is a tough question for you, field, and you probably can't. There's probably nothing you can do. Okay, but maybe because, you know, ESPN is putting on the draft, ABC, all this stuff. Detroit, Don and superfan don't have tickets. They aren't put in the lions inner circle. This is a travis we need to figure out. I, they want. They should, I'm sure they could buy tickets, but I know that the draft, the way they set it up, they put, they put people in the little pods. These guys deserve to be there. Can we figure it out? Can you figure out, can you ask anyone?

I'm getting off this, and I'm gonna make a call.

Okay, good.

That's all I need.

It doesn't feel right. I I probably should have spent a little more time figuring out what the actual ticket buying process was. It was not on my, my checklist prior to this. I just assumed that, like, pretty much anybody. Aren't they expecting, like, a quarter of a million people?

I think they, I think they just thought that they would be in the little pod that they show everyone before and they show all the fans, and I'll say this right now, I will. They will be on their best behavior. I'll put my reputation on the line, which is nothing. So that's a lot we're doing. That was the name of the lady.

That, that came that hadn't been there years. Her name.

That fan hadn't been where, the drafting years?

No, she hadn't been. She laughed.

Used to sit with Detroit, Don and Superfan, and she hadn't shown.

She was like, I'm not coming back until they make the playoffs. Not sprinkles. Sprint.

Was it?

No, Miss Sprinkle. Was it sprinkles?

It could have been.

Ah, shit.

All right, well, just see research, see.

If there's any, any way, see if there's any way that we, I got.

A couple more levers I can pull here before we actually, before the games begin. So I'm not, not giving up hope yet.

Our reputation. I'll do, I'll do response.

If I put my reputation on somebody behaving in a crowd, that's actually the worst endorsement you ever have.

I'll do Detroit.

Don, you do Superfan.

I endorse Detroit, Don. I endorse superfan to act in all ways, like, I would not act.

Yeah. I'll say if Detroit time gets out of line, then my reputation can be sullied.

Yeah.

Superfan will play everything by the book.

Yeah.

These guys, they do everything for the lions. They are. They are the lions.

So, by the way, like, what are they going to do? Like, they haven't picked 29th and.

I know, right?

Yeah.

It's really strange. They're, they scheduled this draft in Detroit. Everyone's like, oh, that's gonna be cool. No, you gotta sit around and wait. I I just know that Dan Campbell's gonna pick somebody that he's gonna get so fired up that he wants to just, like, wrestle his entire war room.

That'll be.

Oh, it's gonna be great.

Yeah.

That is one of my. I think you guys have highlighted this in the past, but that's also one of my favorite parts of the draft, especially at the top right, where it's like, you know who you're taking, and I get it. Other than Washington and Chicago, like, I guess you don't necessarily have a guarantee of who you're taking, but it's like. And they start immediately celebrating, which, again, there's a lot of work that goes into this process. Like, it's okay to relieve. Like, be exhale for a second but feel some relief. But, man, I do kind of get a chuckle out of that. That is always one of the better parts.

It was sprinkles, by the way.

Yes, sprinkles.

Yeah, sprinkles.

Now you're making me nervous, though, because you. You just said, like, bottom line, the commanders are taking Daniels, which I hope to God you're right. But I.

Now, now I'm officially nervous and very nervous.

I know.

I know.

You know, I've had a. I got a handful of commanders buddies in my life, and it's like, every time they.

Have.

You talked to shafter recently? Like, what's he saying? I tend to believe I do feel good about that one. I will.

Okay.

Me, too. Me, too.

Proven otherwise. And, you know, I did hear this part from Todd, and I agree with him wholeheartedly. Like, from a tape standpoint, to me, it was, you know, it was pretty clear who the two best players in college football were, at least at the quarterback position this past year. So I feel good about Jaden going number two overall, and, you know, I think the draft sort of begins at number three, even if I do lean towards Drake.

All right, well, field, thank you so much. First one's on us, mistake wise, on Thursday night.

Second one.

I'm out. Yep.

Second one, you're on your own short.

Range as a draft analyst.

Yeah.

Just make sure that the first one, it really counts. Like, don't. Don't screw up like a school on the first one and then say, like, someone's, like, parents are dead on the second one, and they're alive, because then we can't help you.

Yeah, we can't.

I would have no way to.

Yeah.

Happened to me. It happened to me last year at the Masters. Our reputation is yet to recover.

Yes. Yes, I know.

They're gonna be a long road back. Trust is a hard thing to earn, easy thing to lose, right?

Yeah, they always say. All right, well, best of luck, field. Thank you so much. And good luck.

Daniel Jeremiah and Field Yates were brought to you by Pepsi. Love Pepsi. I've been drinking it all. Show I had a Pepsi earlier today. Nothing makes a good meal even better. Like an ice cold Pepsi. You get that refreshing pop of sweet, fizzy pepsi bubbles. They make the best food taste even better. And come see us part of my cheesesteak truck alongside Pepsi. We're going to be there Wednesday, April 24, from four to 06:00 p.m. At 20, 217 Woodward Avenue in Detroit, serving up the Pepsi infused part of my cheesesteak sandwiches. We've got the PM beef. We've got the hot seat. A little spicier. We're going to be working the truck, giving away merch. Grab a Pepsi, zero sugar for your next meal, and come out and see us in Detroit.

Okay, let's wrap up with guys on chicks. By the way, we are going to do mister pear picks on Instagram live. So go follow us on the. Pardon my take. Instagram. If you're listening to this, we already picked his Tuesday night games, but Wednesday morning, we'll pick.

Should we do it for Mister Pear?

What?

For count?

Yeah, we could do it from Mister Pears account. Yeah, so we'll. So he went to an O. We're not gonna have him on every show, but we will do the pics. Cause we gotta see how he does.

I wanna.

I want Mister Pear on Instagram.

Yep.

It's Mister Pear on Instagram.

I wanna analyze the trends behind what he's good at picking. Wait, what are his most successful picks?

What his Instagram handle is.

It's Mister Pear.

Do you see how that's confusing when we say it?

It's.

Its mister Pearl.

It's Mister Pear. Oh, its.

Yeah, it's as part of the. It's a. Like his instagram handle is.

What is it?

Mister Pear?

It's at. It's Mister pair.

It's at. It's Mister Pear.

So we will get some pics for the people.

Hi to big fat p, lefty, handsome bank philly fat natick and cake marsh. My, aren't they just call me hands make love that. My boyfriend is currently finishing his masters program and will be joining me in the workforce soon after. I've been making more than him while he's been in school and working part time. And we've been splitting our rent and general expenses. Once he graduates, he'll be making a lot more than me. And part of me thinks that he should cover more of the rent expenses now that he's working. He's saying that I should have been doing the same the past couple years while he's been fair. I'm bringing this up now. Thoughts?

That's a good point.

We got you there.

Foots on the other shoe.

He got you there, especially with the. You should have been paying more. But wait. He said she should have been paying more, but she was splitting it.

She.

He's saying that she should have been paying more.

Yeah.

If she's going to ask him to pay more now that he's making more.

It's also relatively. If he's making way, way more, just.

It is interesting that she's bringing it up now, though.

Yeah.

Very interesting.

Also, I feel like you got to wait. Like, maybe if you move and get a new place, that kind of reopens negotiations, but to just change it also.

Long play here, get married, and then joint bank account. You're good.

Yeah.

You kind of got caught there, though. You kind of got caught. You should have. You should have seen the future there. You should have seen what was gonna transpire and paid a little more when you. When you were making more.

Yeah.

And I guess it depends when you moved in together too. How long have you been dating up to this point? Have you been covering them for a matter of years?

Yeah.

Like, do you feel like you're in, maybe you're entitled to some of that money back. You put him through his masters.

Mm hmm.

But she didn't.

She didn't.

They split it. Yeah.

That's a crazy argument to make.

That was.

What's.

What's the guy's name? Bateman. What's his first name?

Jason.

Jason.

That was very Jason Bateman.

Yeah.

It's interesting. Like, that. You reminded me, that was a flashback of you just got the news that, like, your entire family was killed by a mexican cartel while you're living in Missouri.

Yeah, that. That show, they're just always leaving. The show is just Michael or Jason Bateman backing his car out of a.

Series of drivers in a minivan.

Yeah.

Hey, PMT. I recently got out of a long term relationship in which my boyfriend introduced me to his favorite sports team, the Buffalo Bills. Now I'm a huge fan. I'm afraid I will always associate the bills with my ex, but I want to enjoy watching Josh Allen be a freak of nature. How might I mitigate this association so I can watch football and not be incredibly sad at the same time.

Hmm.

You gotta fuck Josh Allen. I was gonna say that it ruins the team for him.

I was not gonna say that part.

Okay.

But now I am, and I agree. If I was him, I'll be very upset that my ex is now rooting for my favorite team.

Yeah.

I'd like nothing more than for her to pick just somebody else. Feel like that should be divvied up.

But she fell in love with Josh Allen. It happens.

It's hard.

Not the best of us.

God, what about when you start dating somebody else?

Yeah.

Are you gonna take on their. Their fandom?

Well, no.

She says she wants to be a Bills fan.

Yeah, but how's that? That's gonna be weird conversation in your next relationship when your boyfriend's like, why do you root for the bills?

It sounds like it didn't end so poorly. Because if it did end poorly, you either fuck Josh Allen or date a channel Chiefs fan. One or the other.

Yeah.

If you're a free agent, why just.

Find it doesn't want to be a free agent?

No, I'm saying, but just she's a free agent in terms of dating data. She's fan. See how that goes. I bet you'd be fun for.

Yeah.

Until January.

Mm hmm.

I'm pregnant, and my husband is adamant we name our first child Hercules because it's badass name and guarantees our child will be strong and powerful. We don't even know the gender yet, but he is convinced it's a boy. He refuses to consider other names, calling any other name we. And accusing me of wanting to raise a softie or a wimp. He refers to our child again, we don't know the gender as Hercules. He has been steadfast on this idea for over a year. Will he eventually back down or will I have to name my child after a cartoon?

So Hercules, I guess he was a myth. He was a mythological figure before he was a cartoon.

That's true.

He's kind of reducting, reducing it down to something brand new. But I feel like you're setting the kid up for failure. Actually, if you name Hercules.

Yes.

Unless he is the strongest kid, then he's going to be like, kind of on the wimpy side for a Hercules.

Yes.

Be the second strongest Hercules.

Two things are happening here. One, definitely a girl. It's going to be a girl. Update us when your baby girl arrives. Hope everything goes well. To this is just classic pre having a child guy brain where they have plans in their head for my kids can be the toughest. My kids can be this, that, the other. And then you have the kid, and you melt into a pool, and you're just like, I hope he's happy and healthy and nothing else matters, so just wait it out, because he will not care one iota once the kid arrives. Wait it out. And it's a girl, just so he knows. That's it. Yeah, if you. If you're, like a adamant it's a boy, it's gonna be a girl. That's just a fact.

Yeah, I just. I feel like Hercules, unless they're the toughest kid ever, is gonna be just a bad name for that kid.

Yeah.

I just remember, like, before I had kids, I had all these plans for my kids, and then it's like, oh, my kid likes rocks. My kid likes to pick up sticks.

Okay?

That's the coolest thing in the world.

You know?

I'm down for that.

You know what?

If your kid does turn out to be strong, you can call him Hercules.

Yeah.

You can still call him. There's no rule saying, hey, Hercules.

Yeah.

Hey, Herc.

Herc is kind of cool work actually, is a great.

Watching the wire.

That's.

That's a strength and conditioning coach.

Yeah.

Herc in the making. Bald head, maybe goatee.

Yeah.

All right, good show, boys. Good show. We covered everything. Numbers? 48.

20.

Oh, no, I'll go 76. 318.

Also, please tune into PGA Tour live this week.

Oh, yes.

Classic of New Orleans.

When does it start?

Thursday through Sunday.

A team event, right?

Yeah, team event.

Do you know what the teams are?

Yeah.

What teams? Max on he's not playing.

Oh, but I am also doing my first signature event in two weeks, the Wells Fargo, which he's a two time champion of.

Well, that's the fifth major.

Pretty much.

Hell, yes. Good job, Jake. Proud of you. All right, everyone can say the numbers. 99, poke.

40, 28, 21.

Shout out.

Everyone who bought a pug shirt sold over a hundred. Did you know that? Pug buy a pug shirt.

Pug. Nice.

656-565-6565.

Max, I'm reading this postgame report here. It just says that coach nurse, an attempt to call a timeout by coach nurse is neither recognized nor granted by the officials. It doesn't say that the attempt. That's the second one was a valid attempt.

It says the first one was a valid attempt. The second one.

Not talking.

The tweet in the tweet that you sent over.

No, that's what I'm looking at. The second one was a valid attempt. The second one was not a valid. The first one was.

Take on me,

the world I.