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Pivot.

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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Box Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway.

And man scott News.

I know. It's everywhere. It doesn't stop.

It doesn't stop. It's crazy. All in our wheelhouse.

Yeah, a lot going on. By the way, just a quick in our weekly segment called let's Talk About US and pat ourselves on the back. You won best Podcast of the Year.

Yes, I did. Oh, I was going to push that in your face. Yes, for succession, although much deserved, let me just say.

By the way, let's bring this back to me. As good as your succession podcast was, they thought, oh, that's a good idea. Let's do one for Apple's. We crashed.

Yes.

And I did it. It was that bad?

Oh, it was.

They had the worst guests. They scripted me. I got in fights with the producers. It was awful. It was I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

You know what HBO did? And quite correctly, they got out of.

The fucking not not Apple. Not for me.

There was a guy who I work with, Michael Gluckstat. I think that's how you pronounce it, right? He was amazing. He's in comms and stuff like that. But I got to say, they were like, what do you want to do? And that's how you do these things. If you want to make them interesting.

But you deferred. You ask, what does Kara Swisher want to do?

What does the talent want to do?

What is the person the talent being you.

Well, you being the talent for but.

Yes, but let it you disarm me with kindness.

I know, I'm just saying. And also, by the way, I did love. We crashed. I have to say, I was really good. And you could do a lot with that.

It was good. The episode series was great. It was my podcast that fucking sucked.

Yeah, but I have to say, the series but the succession was so good. It was hard not to be good at it.

It really was good. No, but you and the producers, I had several people tell me that they immediately hit play and they did a great job elegantly promoting it, it said. And now go to the podcast for Succession hosted by Kara Swisher. More than you doing a great job. Even was it was the first time I'd seen that elegant cross media promotion.

Yeah, they did a nice job.

Anyways, congratulations.

Thank you. Thank you. I was really appreciative. It was really fun. I hope to do another one for them at some point. I don't know what show right now is hot. Anyway, we have a lot to talk about. By the way, the actor strike coming to an end after 118 days. What a waste of time. I know the actors don't think that, but both of us do. OpenAI is making some big announcements. And we'll chat with author Maddie Khan about her book Young and Restless the Girls Who Sparked America's Revolution. The Revolutions. Which is important because there's a lot of stuff around young girls and women both having to do with abortion and also having to do with what's going on on Meta and some of the social networks. There's a lot to talk about there. Did you watch the Republican debate last night?

I watched some of it. I actually found it kind of boring.

Did you? Yeah, it was like the little kids table, as Amanda calls it.

That's the perfect description. Did you see it?

Yes, I did. I did watch it. I liked when Nikki Haley called Vivek Ramaswani Vivek Scum after he noted her daughter used TikTok.

Well, I want to laugh at why Nikki Haley didn't answer your question, which is about looking at families in the eye. In the last debate, she made fun of me for actually joining TikTok while her own daughter was actually using the app for a long time. So you might want to take care of your family first.

Leave my voice.

Adult daughter.

The next generation of Americans are using it, and that's actually the point.

You have her supporters propping her up.

That's fine. I thought that was kind of a low blow by him. He may have been making a point, but he's such a jerk. He comes off like such an asshole, essentially.

Yeah, but you know what? You don't use people's children to score political points.

Agree.

Especially a guy who could argue comes across a bit of physically in his voice and his age is a bit of a child himself. I think he's fallen further faster. And Grant, I have a biser. I thought she clearly won. If there was a winner, the real winner was Donald Trump. You got to give it to the guy. Strategically. He's been very smart. His polls just keep going up and up. He's now at 63 points. DeSantis came across as a robot, minus the charm. He's just I know.

I agree. Every time his voice goes up a little touch. You're like, oh, wow, you're really awkward. But he did attack Trump a little bit. He says he's a lot different guy than and he wasn't. This is the most they're going to do to Trump is their is their opponent. They really should be attacking Trump, but they won't do it. Although Haley has stuck with this federal ban on abortion would be nearly impossible to successfully implement. She was being honest. I think she's right. She's been very consistent on that topic. She had the most articulate explanation of how the Republicans should handle the abortion issue around. Just like I'm pro life if they're not. That's the way it is. We'll have to figure out a way.

To get along and don't criminalize women.

Don't criminalize it.

Yeah, I think she is the best. I mean, here's the problem. The primaries are basically a race to see who is most unelectable in the general, right?

Yes.

Because effectively what you have is the way elections are run is with kind of the rabid zealots. You got to inspire the base and then the way you got to get them to turn out. And then in my post this week on Emerging Malice is about what I call swingers and then the swing votes in the middle. And I think both Biden and Trump are going to turn out the rabid or the zealots on each party. I think the turnout is going to be huge. So then it comes down to who, in fact, would get the win over the most moderates in these small number of counties and a small number of states. And what voters tend to like, if you look at the way it goes back and forth between Democrats and Republicans, is they like a contrast. They do believe in a balance of power, and they get sick of drinking the same taste over and over. If it was Haley versus Biden, I think she would win. They're not. I think if it's Biden, Trump, and again, I'm terrible political predictions. You're better than I am at this stuff. I think Biden wins because I think I just don't see any moderates breaking for Trump.

But she is very appealing. Very appealing.

She's done herself well for 2020. Wait, she's set herself up very well.

100%. And my fear is that he picks her as his feet. But anyway, I thought she was well.

She'S understood that Trump is the actual opponent. She's the only one that really has she never looks good. I was talking to someone who's close to her. I was like, she never looks good. When she's mouthing right wing stuff, it doesn't feel comfortable with her. And she does it to be tough or whatever, and she's just more naturally listen, let's talk about the big loser, Biden. He won all over the place in the elections on Tuesday. I mean, for a loser, he's looking great. Everyone's like, he's such a loser. I'm like he won everything. Like in red leaning Ohio favored Enshrining, the right to abortion in the state constitution. That's all she wrote. There you go. Democrats also flipped the state house in Virginia. Which junkin was supposed to be such a masterful politician? I guess he wasn't. Big win for Governor Andy Bashir in Kentucky. And I thought the most pertinent thing he said, which Haley could also say, which is there's no left and right, only forward. I thought that was a fantastic little line. And I think Haley should move into that zone, too. I think people are dying for that kind of stuff.

He's appealing, he's effective, he's sensible. He doesn't attack. Just a really smart politician. He's got a big career ahead of him, obviously. Lovely family, emotional dad. Did you see how he sort of broke up when he was talking about his kids for a, you know, weepy dad? Lovely husband. His wife looks fantastic. Everything about him is great. And Haley could move into that zone from the Republican side. You're interviewing Congressman Dean Phillips today. Who's running for president? Why are you doing that?

Well, so anyone who's under the age of 100 with a D next to their name, I want to give some sunlight to in terms of running for president. Okay. I think it's dropping on my Prop Two pot today. But he's a very thoughtful guy, very impressive guy. He's sort of cut from the cloth of a super successful business person who's now in public service.

He's a third term Gelato, right?

Yeah. And also and this is where he won me over belvedere vodka feel like, what the hell?

I'm sorry. That makes for a great soft serve gelato. Got it.

See, I would skip dinner, get fucked up, and then say, let's go get frogert. Anyways. But he's a really thoughtful guy. He's super impressive. He's handsome, he's young. He's clearly public service minded. He's probably not going to be president, but I think what could happen is I do think he'll actually pull reasonably well. And as we said in the last thing, I think it'll inspire more people to jump in. But he's a reasonable moderate who has a depth to him. I think he's got a real I mean, I could imagine him in eight years being a vice president. I think he would not stand too much scrutiny under the bright lights on a presidential debate stage.

No, I'm not voting for the Gelato guy. I'm sorry. It's just like, look, Gavin Newsom's run a country. Any of these governors has done it, or even mayors. Mayors are fantastic. I want someone who's run stuff that's government.

He's worth a look, though. Sure. He's an impressive guy.

I'd rather have Mark Cuban. If you want to impress you want to impress me or any of these people, they're fine. I just don't think business necessarily translates into government. Although there's some nice practices.

Why can't you have both?

Is what I would, I guess. Yeah. Gelato. I just can't get past Gelato.

Gelato, he's super successful.

I get it.

But Gelato actually, Yo, if you listen, I don't know if you saw him on Bill Maher.

How hard is gelato? How hard?

It's hard to run a business, I.

Guess, but not Gelato.

Anyways, good man, super successful, has turned to public service, and when you listen to him, he's just sort of infinitely reasonable. And unfortunately, he probably has no position in American politics because he's a moderate. No, not so.

Look at Andy Bashir. No, honestly, no. I don't think that my take on this guy. And we have different opinions. Narcissists. Like, massive narcissists. That's what I every time I hear him, I'm like, oh, really?

Why do you say that? I mean, aren't they all narcissists?

Look at me. He has a look at me tendencies.

And you don't think the president would qualify as that, I guess, but this.

Guy, he is not qualified in any way. That's my issue. It's, like, really, truly not qualified.

I agree. That doesn't seem to be a criteria any longer for President.

No, but no other public yeah, but Donald Trump is a terrible person and a terrible President.

Yeah, and I agree with you. He's worth a look. And he's smart. And I don't think Andrew Yang was qualified to be president. But I think Andrew Yang doesn't get the you agree with good. But I don't think Andrew Yang gets the credit he deserves for inspiring a discussion about universal basic income and the fact that we need to move away from this lie that we don't redistribute income. We do. And that There Should be in the wealthiest Nation in the world, there should Be a floor that provides People with a basic level of income such that they know feed Their family or Not Be homeless. And you know what? Andrew Yang people don't give him enough credit. Here he is, the person who Normalized that discussion. Before, it was like, we're America, you got to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, which Translated to cutting food stamps for single mothers. So he had I think we are better off. I don't think Andrew Yang I Wouldn't Interview Andrew Yang on my podcast because I didn't think he was qualified initially.

I think he was pushing Dean Phillips.

I believe he's actually andrew introduced me to Representative Phillips. And America is better because Andrew Yang ran for President.

I like John Anderson. I like all these people. I liked even that crazy Perot. I liked him. I like him in there, too. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I think it's Important, you know, who's Looking given a little glance at Phillips. Is Sam Altman.

Really? That's interesting.

Oh, yeah. That's he's he's Been having little meetings with him. He wants to find anybody but Trump. So he's looking at all the alternatives because he's worried about the biden situation. So he was given a glance at Dean Phillips.

Well, if there was ever a kingmaker let me get this, a billionaire who is the foremost thinker on AI. He'd be a good guy to have in your corner.

He was giving him a look and down look at up and down, apparently. Well, we'll see. It'll be an interesting race once it gets into the wider landscape. We'll see. But I don't mind different people there, but let's move on. Disney's earnings was a good report card for Bob Iger. Disney plus added 7 million subscribers to the third quarter. The company also announced a profit jump of almost 700 million, up from 250,000,000 a year ago. Experiences Division, which includes theme parks and cruise lines, saw operating profit grow 30% compared to the same period last year. He announced they will officially combine Disney Plus and Hulu streaming app in the spring of 2024. Losses in streaming still big, but half as much. I think something like that doing a lot better. Maybe a third as much. I think he was very articulate. I listened to part of that, what he was talking about. I think he was like, I'm cutting costs. I'm going to cut more costs. I'm cleaning things up. We're going to focus on streaming and cruise. Obviously, the big black eye was TV ads, which are not doing great. People are, including at Warner and other places.

David Zaslov also talked about the problems, or his CFO did the problems in TV advertising. That's really the problematic area. Pretty good. What do you think?

It was not really a contrast. What was interesting is looking at Warner Bros. Discovery, and compared to Disney, and they both have this huge weeping sore of linear TV that was down, I think, 11% at Disney and 13% or 12%. And that's even faster than people thought. And most of it is going to YouTube or TikTok because advertising as a percentage of the economy actually stays relatively stable. It doesn't go up a lot. It doesn't go down a lot. The real contrast here, though, was the difference between what I'd call seasoned executives and that is Zaslav kind of gave no one anything to hold on to, and that is the CFO. What really spooked the market and why Warner Brothers Discovery, I think, had its worst one day performance ever, maybe on the back of its earnings, whereas Disney stock went up. Is that one? Disney has the parks, which continue to just be the gift that keeps on giving. Disney looks, they're he's holding on to the strategy or he has a plan. I've always said a young man, if they want to attract a mate, at bare minimum, you don't have to be wealthy, you don't have to be good looking.

You have to have a plan. Even if you don't stick to that plan, it's like, yeah, I'm working. I'm an apprentice learning how to weld, and I have a plan, and I'm going to buy my first home in three years. You need a what? People that's what mates want to know that you have a plan such that you can protect their offspring. Anyways, Iger had a plan. The headline news from the Warner Brothers discovery call that spooked the shit out of everyone is we may not be able to continue to pay down our debt and delever at the current which he's been doing. And that's sort of if you look at Warner Bros. Discovery, I think it's got about 45 billion in debt. Enterprise value is 70 billion. And if they pay the debt down two or $3 billion, then technically if you think the assets are worth the same, the equity value should increase two or 3 billion. And that's kind of what value investors have been looking at here. So when the CFO sort of said, well, things are so bad we may not be able to delever at the same rate, and Zaslov didn't really provide any vision for why things are going to get better, whereas Iger said, I got a plan, right?

I'm buying the rest of Hulu. I'm doubling down on streaming. There's evidence that streaming is working for us. We added seven or 8 million subscribers. And the parks don't worry, the parks are just and cruises.

Cruises are doing well.

Yeah. Live entertainment. Is that what it's all been? And if you listen to both calls, it's just sort of a contrast. Even a little thing I noticed, Zaslav said, we're turning this into a real company again. And I thought, well, it wasn't a real company three years ago when it was worth four times as much boss.

Yeah, he's a bit of a yeah, he does. Yeah. Iger is a smooth operator.

Iger is really smooth. And here's the bottom line. Storytelling, whatever you want to call storytelling, charisma is now I would say it's 51% narrative and 49% numbers. Because if you actually look at the numbers between the two firms, they weren't that different. They're both dealing with the same issues. But one was up and one had its worst day in its history. And the contrast here. So Disney stock is up 1%, effectively flat year to date. Warner Bros. Discovery down 2%. Netflix up 47% this year.

This tiger is headed that way. I feel like for the first time, I was like, okay, they're going to get this thing to with the Hulu adding Hulu in. They're going to be in the Netflix position at some point. That's how I felt when I saw Know when I was listening to it, is that they're going to get to a profitable streaming business.

I think every CEO needs a compelling tagline that says, this is our strategy. This is why we're differentiated, relevant, and sustainable. And Bob Iger's tagline is the following. We are going to be the most profitable media and entertainment company for serving every household that has children globally. Because if you have children you have to have the mandalorian, and then you have to take them to see the Star Wars experience. Rogue nine at Disneyland. They have a monopoly on what it means to inspire children.

People are worried about Marvel's, like I said last time, I love the Marvels, but some of their franchises are getting a little old in the teeth and they have to reinvigorate them and they get the Hulu stuff. There's a lot of really good stuff on Hulu. They have to have more than just children. They've got to offer to a wide.

The bottom line is what I think households with children generally have more money. Households with children are held hostage to their children.

We are.

And if you continue to have the singular streaming network that you have to have, if you have children and you have the singular experience out of home, if you have children, that's a good wrap. Netflix isn't coming for that. Netflix can do a Stranger Things pop up in London, but they're not going to know. It takes decades to build these parks and these cruise lines.

But you also don't cut Netflix either, because you like what's on there. You just don't you don't cut it.

Oh, no. Netflix netflix is the car, but you buy accessories.

Zaslov is selling a lot of content. There's a lot of controversy over selling a lot of content back into Netflix again in order to make money. And there was a really good article, I forget, maybe it was on Pug, but is it right for Zazlov to be selling the content back, helping Netflix arm Netflix again?

He has to he doesn't have the money. He's got to continue paying down that debt. And it might be and also it might be the right strategy, but he doesn't have any choice. He's got to pay down that debt.

Agreed. Anyway, we'll see what happens. But Bob, good job, Bob. The other company is doing good. Rivian is upping production and cutting exclusivity ties with Amazon. Rivian's 2019 deal with Amazon stated the company could sell only sell its electric vans to the retailer, with Amazon committing to buy 100,000 vans by 2030. Amazon, which owns 17% stake in Rivianmore Porteries, still stick to that purchase plan. The EV company will produce 54,000 vehicles this year, up from 2000. Up 2000 from projections. Rivian's boost in production is a contrast to recent moves by other auto companies who have cut back, citing a dip in demand. These companies go through this valley of death, and Rivian is a very attractive truck. It really know. Obviously, Ford is trying they've got competition from whenever that cyber truck comes out, which is definitely if you want that, you want that. But if you don't want it, you don't want it. It's a certain look, some of these companies are going to make it through this valley of death, even though the customer demand of EBS is still weak.

I have one on order. I ordered it two or three years ago. You put a $1,000 down and I finally got that email saying, configure it and we'll deliver it. And I've decided to go Carless for a few years.

Oh, all right. Okay.

Yeah. But when I move if and when I move back well, when I move I should say it's not if. When I move back to the US. I'm getting a rivian.

I think it's a great it's perfect for Aspen.

There you go. I think it's a really handsome car. I don't know a lot of them around. I think it's a great car. And I like the competition. I ordered a new SUV and I named it Karen. It's a white Suburban.

Oh, by the way, my neighbor I have these incredibly lovely neighbors who just got engaged, by the way. And they're the loveliest couple. They're just in general. And I was putting out the trash last night and he goes, what's with the hooker jokes? This is across the yard. What's with the hooker jokes from Scott? And I said, oh, there were a lot more. And he yelled, okay, boomer. And then went back in the house.

Okay, boomer.

Yeah, that's he thinks you're a boomer.

Yeah. I'm technically Gen X.

This is what's happening to me in my home. I get yelled at from the neighbors about your jokes. Anyway. Rivian. Congratulations. Bob, Iger congratulations. Okay, let's get to our first big story. After 118 days, the SAG Astra strike appears to be over. The union announced on Wednesday that it reached a tentative agreement with studios. Not a big surprise. It was expected. The deal still needs to be approved and ratified by the members. The full terms of the agreements aren't out yet, but as as of this recording, sagafter did reveal some details on X. The new contract is valued at a billion dollars. It includes a minimum compensation increases, a streaming participation bonus and provisions for consent and compensation. When it comes to AI, we don't know a whole lot, but in terms of getting back to work, movies that shut down midstream will be the first to start back up, including Deadpool Three. You must be excited. TV shows should follow pretty quickly. California Governor Gavin Newsom said last month the Hollywood strikes cost the state more than $5 billion. So based on what we know, I just think this went on for far too long and people lost the narrative here.

But what do you think?

Well, I haven't seen the details, but generally speaking, the market trumps any dynamic, specifically a union that doesn't have I mean, here's the thing the tails wagging the dog here are that more and more there are 1.7 billion people on TikTok. One in 1000 creators on TikTok are as talented as these good folks at SAG and AFTRA. Bottom line is this is an industry that has too much human capital, so it has very little leverage and I had dinner with a couple of producers the other night, and there's just tremendous we talk about income inequality, there's tremendous human capital inequality. And that is they said everybody wants the same people. And so I bet the top 100 actors garner 50, 60, 80% of the total revenue. And the other question that would be fair to ask here is, you cost the economy, I heard, 7 billion, not 5 billion, to get a billion dollars. There's got to be a better wave than this.

Yeah, I would agree. I think it was compared to other strikes. You'd see, the UAW did very well. It made sense. Analysts estimate that the higher labor expenses will add 10% to the cost of making a show. And studios are expected to compensate by cutting back on production, which they've already did after the writers strike. Netflix announced this week that it would scale back on the number of films made each year. And also, people are starting to also use a lot of the other content. Say, for example, on Netflix, my trainer, the guy I work out with, he's watching something called Blue Eyed Samurai, which was from Japan, which he's loving, which was on Netflix, which he found. I'm going to go look at it. It's a cartoon, I guess. Or it's like people are finding all kinds of things that they get from around the globe. It's actually getting consumers to try and look around. And so that's going to be an interesting thing. And then The New York Times wrote, celebratory feelings compete with resentment over work stoppage and worries at the business era that is coming. It is a different business era.

Hollywood, I'm sorry to tell you. And I think they do sense this right now, most of the smart, both producers and actors and writers that I know, they do understand what's about to happen, which is cuts in the number. And it's given these studios a minute to say, do I really need that person? Do I really need this? What do I actually need? Versus just saying yes to everybody and let's all go to the Polo Lounge for a drink.

Essentially, I would bet the amount of money and some of this is because they were all spending at an unsustainable level, but I would bet the amount of money spent on writers and actors distinctive, these new agreements, these quote unquote historic landmark agreements, will be less because the whole industry is consolidating. The whole industry recognizes they have huge competitive pressures from human capital that charges a lot less and from Netflix, which is tapping into foreign production. I mean, it's like when all of a sudden the Japanese started making better cars than the US. And all of a know the unions in Detroit and Detroit automakers lost a lot of power. It's kind of the same dynamic here. The human capital in Los Angeles and in the traditional media ecosystem has just all of a. Sudden. It's really incurring sort of the forces of technology and globalization and has almost no leverage. And again, I sound like a broken record here. They're trying to squeeze blood from the wrong rock here. So, anyways, I'm glad they're back to work. These linear companies needed to freshen up their what'll be really interesting, though, is just to see what happens to linear TV.

See Disney, see Warner, like, it's just going to cut, cut, cut. It's not how people are consuming information anymore. They're consuming it on YouTube. As I told you, my friend moved over to YouTube. My kids watch everything on YouTube. Or they do not watch network television. They watch watch they definitely watch a it's an utterly changed economic environment. It was interesting because we've gotten a lot of attacks by Hollywood people, but at the same time, a lot of people have come to us and said, thank you for telling the truth about what's happening. Which is interesting that they really feel like we're being honest about where they're going. I love actors. I love writers. I mostly think the studios will do whatever's in their interests, but the studios will do whatever's in their interests. That's what they're going to do. AI. Is a major concern for actors. I'll be interested to see what they decided on this. I haven't seen what's happening, but this is only moving forward. The ability to cut costs by using AI is happening in every single industry. And Hollywood is not going to be immune from what's happening with lawyers, with doctors, with writers, with all newspapers, et cetera, et cetera.

Absolutely not immune to what's happening.

I don't know if I made this analogy before, but I went to The Sphere, and I was thinking about it. I love you, too. So it was peanut butter and chocolate for me. But I'll go see I would go see I don't like country music. I would go see country music at The Sphere. The platform is much more important to me than the content at a place like The Sphere. And that's how I think Hollywood, at least in this decade, when Netflix can take a good, but not a great series starring a hero that saved a prince from the whores of Buckingham Palace. I'm talking about suits, of course. They put it on Netflix and they put it on their home screen, and they make the most watched series in history. So it's clearly the platforms are you'll.

Never give her credit, will you? That's a very successful thing, and she's part of it, but go ahead.

Well, they're just awful human beings, Kara. But other than that, I wish them the best.

Okay, move along. Leave this poor woman alone. You and Megan Kelly are, like, obsessed with her. And Piers Morgan, do the Gross take.

Grosser to be your lawfully wedded wife?

You are in a little tiny group of haters that includes Piers Morgan and Meghan Kelly and a little troika of Meghan Markle hatred, but go ahead.

I don't even know where I was going with this. Netflix is the sphere and great, it's great to have you two there, but it doesn't matter. The platforms are now they can turn suits into the most watched series in history and they'll do it. And so all of a sudden, they have all the leverage, effectively the entire strike if you were to distill it down to one action. The SGA, AFTRA, SAG, they basically rented dump trucks, went to Warner Brothers, Discovery, Disney Paramount, filled their trucks full of cash and then drove it over to Netflix. That is the net effect of what has happened here.

Well, we'll see what happens. I think there'll be certain winners. I think Disney is one of the winners will eventually be a winner. But you're right.

Stocks at a ten year low, Kara.

I know that, but I'm saying they to me have years ago. When Iger did an interview with Me once, he did say we're almost not big enough. And I think he was right. Anyway, I'm not sure that was a victory for labor like it was for UAW or Ups or whatever, but we'll see. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll chat about OpenAI changing the game yet again. We talk a lot about young men on the show, but our friend of Pivot, Maddie Khan, has a new book out on young women and their impact on activism.

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With our vendors to make sure that we are adhering to these ethical principles for development of AI.

It starts with intel. Learn more about how intel is providing the foundation for real solutions@intel.com. Slash stories.

Support for this show comes from American Express Business Resourceful. Small business owners know how to get value from the purchases they already make for their businesses each month. That's why the enhanced American Express Business Gold Card lets you earn up to $395 in annual statement credits. On eligible business purchases at select shipping, food delivery and retail subscription merchants. The Amex business gold card. Now smarter and more flexible. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Enrollment required. Terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com. Slash business GoldCard. It's been almost a year since OpenAI released Chat GPT to the public, kicking off an AI gold rush, the company shared what's coming next at their inaugural OpenAI developer conference this week. They always have these conferences when they get big. The announcements included introduction of custom GPTs this was fascinating for people to create their own, an upcoming App Store and a new turbo model of Chat GPT four. OpenAI CEO Sam Altman spelled out the company's vision in his keynote. Let's listen to a bit.

We believe that AI will be about individual empowerment and agency at a scale that we've never seen before, and that will elevate humanity to a scale that we've never seen before either. We'll be able to do more, to create more, and to have more as intelligence gets integrated everywhere. We will all have superpowers on demand. We're excited to see what you all will do with this technology and to discover the new future that we're all going to architect together.

Love that Sam Altman, but honestly, it sounds like the App Store on super steroids. Essentially, that's what's happening here. They're becoming a platform. That's what jumped out at me about this announcement. A number of people on X were comparing Sam Altman to Steve Jobs after that presentation. I would agree, but it was the App Store. That's what it seemed to be, and they're becoming a platform. What do you think?

I think you're right. But the App Store is arguably one of the most valuable businesses.

Exactly. Yeah, it's the new App store.

And as someone who spent or my team spent a couple of months trying to figure out how to build a ProPG AI, and then basically now anyone can do it by just going to the platform, I think we should have waited two or three months. Look, I was blown away by this, and it indicates why software continues and technology continues to, every year, grab more and more of the world's GDP. And that is they said, okay, we're massively upgrading the product. You can now upload enormous amounts of data for these elements, which is yours to analyze. We have decided we're taking out fear. We're giving you umbrella protection liability from any copyright infringement, which I thought was extraordinary. I'm on the board of Maya tech startup section, and the CEO uploaded the board deck to Chat GPT 4.5 and said, act in the voice of an aggressive growth board member. Give me feedback and ask me questions. And the questions it came back with were chilling. They were so insightful and, I mean, they kind of provoked an interesting conversation at the board level. It was like we had another board member in the room, and while they're doing all this while they're offering custom chat bots the ability to make these things more relevant.

They've updated the input or the news up until April. They've updated the amount of data they're scraping up until or current events up until April. They dramatically lowered the costs. And this is the key difference between technology and every other business. Businesses measure their power and their leverage by management's ability to raise prices. And since whatever you want to call it Moore's Law, the Gestalt in technology is let's massively upgrade the product and let's lower prices. If this had been a consumer company that said, we've dramatically improved the quality of this car, this scarf, this soda, this streaming media platform, the immediate next sentence would be, as a result, we're raising prices 15% because we have the margin power. Instead, these guys say the product is just distinctly better and we're massively cutting costs. I was totally blown away by this thing.

Yeah. I think the move to the platform is the power move. He is going to have this chatbot App Store. It's a consumer business model. It's Steve Jobs playbook. They will compete with Apple and Microsoft, although Sachin Adela, by the way, microsoft invested $13 billion in opening the eyes. Smart investment by Sachin Adela. He made a surprise appearance at the conference, very happy with that partnership, saying, you guys have built something magical. The word magical is an Apple word. That's how you talk about Steve Jobs. This copyright shield he talked about was also important, which OpenAI would cover legal costs for copyright suits, which are common. Companies offer similar protection over IP claims, including IBM, Microsoft, Amazon, Getty Images, and Adobe. Altman said in his keynote, the products the company is currently launching are going to look very quaint compared to what's coming. Interesting thing to say, but you could see the directions these are going in. And he will repair the problems that the App Store had, which is dominance. He's going to have to be paying attention to where Apple went Awry, including feeling like they're a monopoly. He's certainly going to have to deal with that, but he's got a map of someone else's successful launch.

So this to me is really is the App Store of this era. I don't see there's any other way of looking at it.

Yeah. And I'm hopeful that Sam Altman becomes the foil and young men and women and stock analysts and the media start comparing him to Elon Musk and say, you can be a with, you can change the world, and it doesn't necessarily mandate that you're an asshole. And I think we need that. I think, unfortunately, the legacy of Steve Jobs not being an especially kind person.

In certain moments, he wasn't a public asshole.

I agree. I know you were friends with him. He comes off okay, but he comes off as warm and cuddly compared to Musk. But he also anyways, I'm not going to shitpost a dead man. I don't think he was a great role model for CEOs, and I speak from experience in that when I was growing up in tech in the 90s, we all thought that acting like an asshole and being harsh on your employees was an indication of genius. And that was largely because of our idolatry of Steve Jobs. And Elon Musk has now said, you not only have to be an asshole to your coworkers, you need to be a mendacious weird person accusing people of sex crimes of not paying severance. I mean, he's taken it to an entirely different level, and that trend needs to be reversed. And I'm hopeful that Sam Altman will have the same type of credibility as a visionary, as someone who creates hundreds of billions of dollars in shareholder value while being a thoughtful, kind person that cares about the commonwealth. We need a contrast here. We need a solvent, a foil, a zig when this guy Musk is zagging.

And I hope that's Sam Aldman, I would agree.

I wouldn't compare musk with jobs ever. Not at all. Similar, but not the same. But we could argue that look at.

The photograph on the COVID of Walter Isaacson's book.

Yes, I get that Musk is trying to do that. He is nothing like Steve Jobs. Let me just say I agree. But one of the things that I would say is that there are pushbacks against Sam Altman and others, including Microsoft, Apple, everyone else in that there's a real pushback from other VCs, from other startups that don't get funded. By the big companies that a lot of this push for regulation, a lot of their dominance is to preserve, is to ring, fence it. And so these startups cannot compete. And I would say that's something they need to pay attention to. They want to win completely now versus in the marketplace of ideas. I think that is going to be an increasing issue, open source versus this versus Sam being sort of the face of the establishment, I guess. And I think there's going to be a lot of fighting over that, of where regulation is going. I think Sam has the upper hand and has endeared himself to regulators, and so regulation is coming and should, but people are worried about that, and I think we have to pay attention to that because he's so appealing that he has an advantage.

What AI apps would you like to see them develop?

Oh, I don't know. Anything. That's the thing is how could you have thought up Uber? How could you have thought about bad apps and good apps? I just couldn't have thought them up. I don't know. Everything. Everything an app on I don't know if you like succession, if you know everything about succession, everything about it's like a super search. It's super Google, you know what I mean? Like, Google should have done this essentially, but didn't for lots of reasons. People who have content have an advantage here. Like Professor Gai, right. Or Martha. Remember Martha Stewart? When I interviewed her talked about Martha. I think that makes sense. She has so much amazing content and you could turn it into like, who knows? I have no idea. People are going to be very creative. I think I'm excited. It's the next step. It's the absolute next step for this stuff, and there'll be a billion of them. So that's good.

Yeah. I think there's a really big opportunity, and someone told me that Sam listens to this show. I think there's a huge opportunity if he really wants to show that he has concern about the commonwealth. I think one in health care.

I'm interested in that.

I'm convinced a third of America is so intimidated, underinsured, lacks knowledge that their lump in their breast turns into full metastatic breast cancer, that they end up with a melanoma that could have been treated, that they have depression that is really starting to harm their lives. I think that putting out in concert with the National Institute for Health, the American Pediatric Association, medical journals, get doctors involved. I think this is a huge opportunity to push preventive health care out to the corners of the US. I mean, I'm wealthy and I like to think fairly educated. I have trouble accessing health care. Can you imagine what it's like for a poor single mother to try and say, I feel a lump in my breast? Okay. Who do I call? How much it's going to cost me? Should I be worried? Should I not be worried? The amount of stress my child has, diabetes? There's such a big opportunity. I also think around relationships, specifically around young men, but an opportunity to work with psychiatrists, psychologists, adolescent psychologists and then work with mentors and Big Brothers of America to try and start pairing young men with the right resources and job training and reinforcing messaging and offline help to try and really attack suicidal ideation and self harm among young boys and girls.

There's just a ton of things that could be done here.

There's going to be a ton of things. This is going to be a wellspring of creativity. I think someone has to do it. I think there will be a lot of pushback on them. Being the Apple version of this, the Apple Store of this. We'll see. We'll see where it goes. There's certainly plenty of competition from the bigs, but let's hope there's a lot of competition everywhere and we don't again, coalesce into single, powerful organizations, which seems to be the way things work anyway. Speaking of the young, we're going to talk about women in this case. Let's get to our friend of Pivot. Maddie Khan is the author of Young and Restless the Girls Who Sparked America's Revolutions. The book looks at how young women became forces for change throughout American history, fighting for labor and voting rights, racial equity, reproductive freedom and more. Welcome, Maddie. Thanks.

Thanks for having me.

So explain to me why you wanted to explore this. A lot ways to go here, especially some current stuff, but what made you want to explore this topic?

So I used to work at L magazine and I worked at Glamor, and in the course of doing that work, I was just constantly coming into contact with very impressive young women. I had spent time with some of the girls who were involved in the anti gun violence movement out of Parkland. I had spent time profiling Greta Thunberg, and I thought I'll write a book about this incredible generation of teenage girls who feel so different than the millennial women that I grew up with. And then the more research that I did, the more it became clear that actually this was a much bigger story. So it became a much harder book to write, but also a more interesting one. And what I ended up finding was that I could tell kind of an alternative history of social progress in the United States through the lens of teenage girls and their contributions to social movements.

So earlier this week, for example, we saw the power of having abortion rights on the ballot, for example, resulting in some resounding victories for Democrats, including in Kentucky. A lot of people are attributing some of it to an ad of a young woman who was actually raped by her stepfather and had a very convincing ad and spoke out in a way that people probably wouldn't have previously. I was raped by my stepfather after years of sexual abuse. I was twelve.

Anyone who believed there should be no exceptions for rape and incest could never understand what it's like to stand in my shoes. This is to you, Daniel Cameron.

To tell a twelve year old girl.

She must have the baby of her stepfather who raped her is unthinkable.

I'm speaking out because women and girls.

Need to have options.

Daniel Cameron would give us none. Can you talk a little bit about because you do look back on the pre Row era, profiling 19 year old college student who founded Jane, a sort of underground network to help women get abortions, et cetera. And I've seen shows about that and documentaries. But talk a little bit about what's happening now.

Yeah, totally. I mean, I think that you can look at this in two ways. First of all, for as long as we have had young women visible in this country, which is truly from the beginning, especially white women, that has been a very potent symbol for movements across the political spectrum. The protection of young women, of teenage girls, especially when they are conventionally attractive, especially when they are white, has brought a lot of people to the folds historically for a whole number of reasons. What I think we're seeing now and what I think we've seen since the dawn of second wave feminism is that actually young women realizing in really potent and Germane ways that they can harness their own image in a way that brings people out on issues that they care about. So to go back to Jane, that is a case where a young woman coming out of Freedom Summer, who had spent months and months and months advocating for civil rights, gets back to her own campus and finds, like, hey, wow. I've really been talking a lot about these social ills that I see around this country, and actually, things aren't so great for me either.

Someone comes to her and says, I need an abortion, as many young women had to do in the pre Roe era. And she reaches out to her own movement contacts and finds a black doctor, actually, who will perform the service for a reasonable enough fee. And then, like as it always goes for young people, word travels fast. And she actually ends up sort of accidentally in this business, because once you help one woman find an abortion, there are going to be more women who come calling. So she formalizes that process, sets up a hotline. And the Jane name comes from the fact that the women who volunteered for the service answered the phone and said, this is Jane, and they would get women who needed abortions in touch with providers who could offer them. And then over time, they realized, actually, one of their credentialed doctors who was supposed to be doing the service actually had never earned a medical degree. And rather than send them into a tailspin, it made them realize that if he could do it without a medical degree, they could too, and they learned to provide abortions themselves. I wrote this book before the Dobbs decision, and I had to revise that chapter with the fall of Roe as a precedent in this country.

And I think that the reporting that I've done since then has borne out that there are more and more young women who, just like Heather Booth before them, are taking this matter into their own hands and providing services in their own communities entirely separate from the ballot box. Obviously, it's very exciting for abortion rights activists to see that this issue has retained its potency, but I also think no one should be surprised to see that young women are not waiting around for the laws to change.

Sure. And you say the latest generation of girls has learned fast to hone the public voice and weaponize it. I don't think weaponize it, use it. To me, talk about how technology has.

Changed the game in so many ways. I mean, there were always ways to get your voice out, but it used to be mediated through newspapers, radio, every technology of the day. Now, obviously, we know and we see all the time, people, sometimes very young people, gain hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions of followers overnight. And that process of amplification, I think has a lot of benefits and I'm sure you two know better than anyone, has a lot of downsides. It's a lot of people listening all at once. That can be a really helpful and amazing platform and it can also be paralyzing and a ton of pressure. One of the things I wanted to do in the book was not tell some sunny story of rah. Rah girls are amazing and they will save us. I think it's a huge load on the shoulders of young women and young men who become incredibly visible basically overnight and have to watch what they say, sometimes don't watch what they say, and have this microphone that they never really expected flung in their faces. So I think for the purposes of organizing, it's amazing. I think one of the risks, and this goes for all the activists I spoke to, pretty much for the book, Young and Old, if that work doesn't translate into real world organizing, I think the perils are tremendous.

Nice to meet you. Do you think there are any downsides to this? It feels like technology has given young people the opportunity to be activists, but in some instances they go on the hunt, I would argue, on campuses for fake racists or fake sexists. Do you see any downside to people who see their role as social activists and instead end up going after creating more mean? Is there an issue here? Have we put these powerful weapons in the hands of young people that don't necessarily understand how to wield them?

I think there is an issue for many reasons, including the fact that in a lot of ways, and this comes up in the book a lot, young people are actually fairly powerless in this country and all over the world. They can't vote agreed and they can't start their own businesses. They can't have total agency over their lives. And I think when you are powerless in that way, sometimes the tools that you reach for aren't the ones that maybe you would 20 years later. That is the power and the conviction of young people and it is the peril of young people. And that, I think, is clear now. But I think that's always been clear because when you have this disempowered group of people who look out at a world and a future that they don't think has the fundamentals that they need to succeed, you're going to see things from them that feel dire and drastic and maybe anger that is misdirected. I also think at the same time that the burden of being young and feeling like the future has already been messed up for you, which so many young people that I spoke to for this book felt acutely means that it's hard to think.

Yeah, sure, let me sit around and talk about strategy and figure out the best way to achieve my aims, when the message from the world is nothing you do really matters. Because these crises are existential. One of the things that I think addresses the stuff that you're talking about is reminding young people that they do have agency and that there are ways for them to pool their power together in ways that are meaningful. But I think schools have a huge role in promoting that idea and actually reminding people that there is something that they can do about the course of their own lives. So one thing that I feel acutely this week but that I felt the whole time reporting this book is that there's much larger role for institutions to play in the lives of young people. You can't just bring people together and say fend for yourself. It is going to lead to incredible polarization and division especially because there is no one CBS News, Nytimes.com there is no one place that young people are getting their information and I don't think that for the most part for the young girls that I spoke to that it thrills them.

Are you sure it isn'tiktok?

I think it oh, but that's aggregated news from so many different sources. So I'm saying there is no one trusted source. And I think that feels like a tremendous burden for young people.

But talk about that flood, that idea because you mentioned that this idea of so much information going everywhere and I think you see it on TikTok. You see it on everywhere else where people don't have a trusted and some people think it's good not. To have a trusted thing because it's one group of know however you like the New York Times or CBS. It was a group of white guys on the Upper East Side of New York making oh for so that's what I always think about. And I've been in those rooms, and it is the same exact people many decades ago. And I used to think, why are we listening to these people? When I was a young person, like, I was sitting in those room going why is their opinions any better than mine or anybody else? But people have the ability to access these things. At the same time, you have the flip side, which is there's so much information that propaganda thrives in this area that bad players can take advantage of that. And what they tend to do with young women is they tend not to focus in on the activism over real causes, but over makeup, over the influencers that get an outside attention, have to do with fashion and makeup and everything else.

And then it becomes just this giant noise machine, it seems to me. But maybe you don't think that no.

I think one of the things that I ended up talking about a lot with the young women living like alive now who that I interviewed for the book is just to have the conversation that somebody is making money off of what you consume. Now it used to be that we. Knew exactly who those people were. We knew the boardrooms in which they sat. We knew the kinds of conversations that they had. It remains true that even though I think social media is an incredible tool, and young women that I spoke to organized marches of 50,000 people overnight thanks to social media, so far be it from me to demonize it, not at all. But I also think you have to recognize that it rewards a certain kind of information. There is no pure unmediated access. It's always going to be driven by what is rewarding the people who are responsible for and benefiting from those systems. So I just think that consciousness of how you're using it and how you're engaging with it, what it means to you to feel like this is unfettered access to information. No, it's mediated, the same way information is always mediated.

And you just have to be conscious of who is doing that, who it's benefiting, I think, to use it in a way that is beneficial. I always say, especially when parents ask me about this book and about whether I'm optimistic or feel hopeless about the state of young women in America today, that there is no going back. You can be despondent over how young people get their information, but there is no putting the genie back in the bottle. So I think that we will all have to become more conscientious consumers. But I will say that the happiest activists I spoke to for this book, the people least beset by the kinds of issues that we all worry about are people who felt that what they were doing was direct action, not posting infographics on Instagram, not so hashtag of ism. Yeah, exactly. And not even being part of a local chapter of a huge national network. People who felt like they were making their communities better, where they were giving access to services that people in their own worlds and on their own campuses needed. And I think that is a light in the way forward.

So you'd mentioned institutions, and I agree that institutions have a role when they bring young people together, more than just letting them I don't know, they should play a bigger role. So what counsel would you give to university leadership right now that is really struggling on a number of dimensions around how the role they play in informing or guiding shepherding, educating young people. What advice would you have for a university leadership?

It's interesting because these kinds of issues are things that didn't come up as much when I was working on the book. But what I do think is true is that the idea that the learning that you do on campus is only happening inside the classroom is ridiculous. It's so crazy. And one thing that I found really heartening is I don't know if you guys have seen this, but Dartmouth has organized its Middle Eastern and Jewish studies departments as a random example, to host forums that are open to students, available to stream online, where you can ask any question you want. Nothing is off limits as long as it's in the form of a question. They expected maybe 20 people to come, 30 people to come. Hundreds and hundreds of students have watched these and asked questions. And that is a model, I think, for universities dealing with the latest issue or any other issue. If you don't give young people a forum to ask the questions that are on their minds, to gut check what they're seeing on social media, they will come to their own conclusions. If you don't want that, you need to be a partner in that kind of learning.

I think this idea that you can sit there and let students have at it amongst themselves is not proven to be super successful. And I think that all of our lessons of successful activism, meaningful change, come from intergenerational partnerships. So there needs to be forums on every campus to have hard conversations. And the idea that those conversations aren't going to happen if you don't do that. They're only going to happen in ways that you don't think are terribly productive. So I think the Dartmouth example is a model.

Yeah, it's interesting because I think they're scared of the students. That's my impression is that they're scared of what to say and they're also scared of their donors. So they're caught in the middle. Right. They're scared of both sides of the possibility rather than having real discussions.

Yeah, but hiding from your students is not historically a great way to go.

No, because on the other side, they have donors also pressuring them in the same way where dialog would have been the better choice, not running the dialog by facilitating the dialog, which is their actual job, it seems to me. Let me ask you a question. I have just one more question. You mentioned Greta Thunberg, who's been highly effective using online tools and everything else. Is there other activists you think have been effective? Young women activists? She gets her share of attacks, obviously, but seems to handle them rather deftly and effectively in sort of using online forums to benefit herself and also get her message out. Can you talk about who you think has been effective beyond her or why she is so effective?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I do think that the Parkland activists, young people who were directly affected by a particular issue, were a potent reminder of what young people can accomplish, especially when they're speaking in the first person. I think that that's always been the most powerful mode of activism. This happened to them and now they are emissaries for this issue. And I think they've been successful in a different way. Obviously there are many examples of gun violence continuing since Parkland and of legislation that maybe some of us wish would have succeeded that didn't. I think what all of the young people who do this well have in common is they, first of all, have a command of these platforms. It's very adorable to see people who are less deaf to try to respond to them. It's just like arguing in a different language. That's not your native tongue. It doesn't go well. I think that one of the reasons that Greta does such a good job. Know, I came across a study when I was working on the book, a study by someone who was looking at the seeming disappearance of aggression in girls, really young girls, that by age three, boys were continuing to push and shove on the playground.

But girls had seemingly grown out of that behavior. And look at how mature and fabulous they were. Well, actually, he was very surprised to see that the tactics of warfare for girls change that young, and that from age three, they learn that they can be more successful at alienating their friends or their enemies, choosing sides, sewing disinformation campaigns on the playground just by using their words. And he concluded, girls are not nicer. They just have their own set of tools.

Yes, that was just this morning in the Swisher household, the Swisher Cats household. I just saw that this morning.

They bully relationally.

Yes, they do. And I think that that has made them very good at social media, because what is social media but bullying relationally.

Just in terms of did you look at all and I realize you're not an endocrinologist or a medical doctor, but.

There'S some weird but please comment.

Of course, yeah. My high school science teachers will be.

Calling in, but there is something going on. Boys are maturing later, and my understanding is girls are maturing even earlier. There seems to be something going on where an 18 year old boy is really a 16 year old girl, and they say it's the prefrontal cortex. But did you look at, developmentally, what appears to be happening and why and how it's impacting the way that girls feel about the world and also how they feel about boys?

That's an interesting question. I mean, in some ways, I felt like there was so much continuity in the ways that girls have matured for centuries. The idea that girls as young as ten or eleven are working in the Lowell Mills and devising a plan to strike. They are ten years old, and they are plotting hundreds and hundreds, up to thousands of activists and workers walking out at the exact same time. In the pre social media era, that kind of maturity was a constant. In the book, I think that there are, like you said, many scientists who can speak to things like changes in body weight, driving girls to mature faster, things that I read about as a civilian, but certainly would never presume to comment on as an expert. What I do think is true is that we have rewarded girls socially for being precocious, and that seems to have caught up with them. We really applaud girls who are articulate, who command our attention, who are charming. I certainly feel like as a young person, I got the message that the more you could sound like a little adult, the more seriously people would take you.

I think we find girls who sound like adults captivating, and we tolerate a kind of anger from them. I feel that we don't tend to reward in grown women, and I think that that makes being a young activist very hard to grow out of. And I think that it's something that a lot of the girls that I spoke to for the book were scared of making that transition from being a precocious, articulate young woman to being just another skold who the world doesn't really want to take seriously.

Yeah, there's a quick turn from a quick turn there's a quick turn to becoming a bitch. There really is. It's really amazing to watch. You know what I mean? Like, you're annoying and you can see it in women politicians and everything.

And the whiplash is so acute for these young women who felt like they had a platform, they were respected, they were taken seriously. And that really, I have to say, is one of the most depressing constants of the book. In the 18 hundreds, we had girls who were abolitionists, who were touring the country, selling out theaters, and then they hit 24 or 25, and all of a sudden it's not so cute anymore. And there isn't really a path for them to continue to command that kind of public voice.

It's like child actors.

It's exactly like child actors.

Maddie, this is a really interesting book. Obviously, Scott spends a lot of time talking about young men and the crisis they face, but this is a really important book to understand and where women.

And you tell it well, maddie, you're very impressive.

Yeah, very impressive. Anyway, you speak well.

Oh, I speak well.

And you're not a bitch. No, I'm kidding.

Not yet.

The turn is that's next. You know, I'm allowed to be one because I'm a lesbian, but otherwise no. Yeah. It's so fascinating how people say anything.

Scott not going to touch it. You keep quiet.

You keep quiet. Say nothing. Anyway, Maddie, thank you again. The book is called Young and Restless the Girls Who Sparked America's Revolutions. And it's really important to think it's also happened in the past as it is happening now. And it's good to look back and realize this is not necessarily a new trend, but it's interesting to look at what happened previously. I thought that was the most important part of the book to me, to remember that. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

Thanks, Maddie.

Thanks for having me.

Okay, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

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Okay, Scott, time for wins and fails. I'm going to go with a win. I saw this story about this show on I think it's HBO called Our Flag Means Death, and it's about essentially gay pirates, and it's suddenly grown. I love series.

Gay pirates.

It's a comedy.

I think I went there in the 80s. It's a dance club next to Splash.

I think I'm pronouncing this correctly. It's. Tyco waititi, who did one of the Thor movies? He plays blackbeard. Let me read the description. Wealthy landowner I think it's Stead Bonnet, has a midlife cris, decides to blow up his cushy life to become a pirate. It does not go just I watched the first couple episodes. It's frigging hysterical. It's really good. Yeah. I was alerted to it because people are watching it, like, increase in viewership. It started off kind of not weekly, but not a big hit, and now it's moving into it's like suits or any of these things. Suddenly people are really picking up on it. It's created by a guy named David Jenkins. But I really enjoyed really I was put onto it by a story and I really, really like it. Obviously the fail is Vivek Ramaswamani, who was just such a jerk, just a jerk. The way he talked to Nikki Haley, I thought she handled him well, but he just wants to be a contrarian jackass. And I think his candidacy just further proves that people just don't like people who behave, like know he's doing better than others. But what a like, I don't know what else to say.

What a jerk. Anyway, fail.

Well, my win is women in the United States. I think that there's just no doubt about it. You're going to start, I think, to see a softening of the rhetoric or the pro life rhetoric from Republicans who realize that women and men and not only Democrats, but also Republicans, including Republicans in a kind of purple to red state Ohio. Or some people would even argue red of like, look, you're against it, we get it. Then don't have an abortion. But we have trouble. We recognize that these laws are especially punitive not on just women, but young women and young women of color, and that an older, wider electorate, or excuse me, representatives should really just stay out of or not stay out of this, but they really don't have the empathy they should for what a young woman, by virtue of biology faces. Anyways, I'm going too far down a rabbit hole here. My win is women across America who I think the electorate is firmly saying, you know what? We need to have women's backs on this, even if we personally have an issue with this. This is just a bridge too far what has happened here.

And there's been like 24 litmus tests of the overturning of Roe v. Wade since its overturning, and all of them have gone down or all of them have gone in favor of people who are pro choice. And I think that's a wonderful thing. My other kind of win is the miniseries Love and Death starring Elizabeth Olsen. It's fantastic. It also has Jesse Plemons and Kristen Ritter, who are both characters in Breaking Bad and this guy named Tom Pelfrey's in it. I think he's a leading man. He plays a lawyer in it. But also I've had the same I call him my creative advocate, but I have a friend from college named Jonathan Taylor, and he did everything but design, including designing my first catalog at Red Envelope, designing my websites. Anytime I need a creative advocate, whether it's decorating an office or doing the design on a home, I have he's been my creative advocate. He's such a genius around this stuff. And I immediately texted him like you got to check out the set design, the wardrobe, and the cinematography on the show, because if you were raised in the as I was, it is literally a trip back in time.

Anyways, Love and Death is fantastic, and Elizabeth Olsen just owns the screen. She is very good.

She was in such an enormous she was in WandaVision, everything she's in. She's great.

Oh, she's fantastic. She is fantastic.

She's been in a lot of stuff. Not just that, but just the Olsen sister. It's the sister of the Olsen sisters. Just a really top level actress. Actor. Excuse me. I agree. She's wonderful. Anything she's in anything she's in is really good. I agree with you on the abortion thing. They have to stop arguing about weeks. Anyone who's arguing about how many weeks has lost the narrative. Women want abortion rights. That's what they want. And they're going to keep voting for them, and they have a lot of allies with men and young people, and this is a loser for Republicans, just a loser. They don't like the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and they don't love being called that. They're going to kill babies up until birth. Nobody does that. It's such a waste of time what the Republicans are doing, and they're going to lose every and it's going to continue.

Mayor Pete, I thought, had the exact right kind of response to kind of Where's the Line? Or weeks. He said, it's not about where's the line? It's about who gets to draw the line.

That's correct. And no doctors do things after 26 weeks. They don't. They just don't.

Yeah. And again, this is meant to trigger an emotional argument around this bullshit around Ron DeSantis claims he interviewed someone who was an aborted fetus that was put in a pan and now incendiary.

It's a lie.

Nobody does mean it's kind of the same narrative. Know when Jordan Peterson, who I do respect on a lot of levels, talks about young girls having their breasts surgically removed, that's just against their will or after one meeting with their doctor. And if you look at the protocols around the stuff, there are so many checks. It's six months. It's a doctor. It's a.

It'S made up. It's a lie.

Yeah, that's exactly right. Meant to evoke an emotional response from the majority of the lecturer that doesn't have time to really look into these issues.

I made a noise of Jordan. That's my Jordan Peterson noise for you. It's whenever you compliment lots of people I'm like. One thing I forgot, speaking of fantastic people that I forgot to mention, is Barbara Streisand has a Trisand Babs has a book out, and it's getting great reviews. She went there. She's telling it like it is. I haven't read it yet, but the parts I've read of it look fantastic. She went there. And I love that lady. She's the guidepost for so many others that came after her lover lover.

Amazing voice.

Amazing. Not just that she was right up front. She got took all the slings and arrows of being a very speaking of women who spoke their mind, she did and was thought of as difficult when all she did was say this is the way I want to do it. Just a real artist and I'm thrilled that her book is out and I'm excited to she says it's a Doorstop and wanted it in two parts. I'm going to read the Doorstop. Such a legend in entertainment and singing everything. She's just amazing. Anyway, everybody should buy that book and make her even wealthier than she already is. Because she's fantastic. She deserves every penny. Anyway, I think that's it. I actually dated you didn't date Barbara Streisand?

I dated twins. One of them was named Barbara and my friend said, how can you tell them apart? And I said, Barbara has really big tits and Bob has a mustache.

How could you take my love of Barbara Streisand and go to another boomer?

Do you remember when she partnered with Barry Gibb? We've got guilty for that.

Guilty no matter what. Even her bad stuff is good. She doesn't like her bad stuff. I love all her stuff. I like everything she's done. Anyway, we want to hear from you, including you, Barbara. Send your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot. To submit a question for the show or call 8551 Pivot Scott. That's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Please read us out.

Today's show was produced by Lara Naman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie andertott engineered this episode. Thanks to Gibros, Mil Severo and Gadda McBain. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine of Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business ad weeks. Podcast of the year. Of the year. The Succession podcast hosted by Kara Swisher.