She met John when he was still dating Jennifer. They ended up breaking up. John came back and pursued Sheena and Stacey. That was a thruple.

Honestly, it's just taking me a second for that to really sink in. Three people in a relationship. This was not a threesome.

It was like three people hooking up. You know, this deep dive is certainly not PG. Well, well, well. Hi. Hi.

Well, well, well.

Today, I have prepared quite the episode. I think you will leave this recording feeling enraged. Oh, no. And something I want to bring up is the fact that when we did our David Foster deep dive, Mom actually called me out for being really negative about David Foster. And what we're about to discuss could also come across as manhating. In fact, Mom commented on our post about David Foster, and I don't know if she knew that she was commenting on our post because she commented like a troll.

What did she say? What was the comment? She just...

Just one word, and it was witch hunt.

Oh my gosh.

Did you see this?

No, I didn't.

Stop. Yes. Bitch hunt. It was like full troll post. And I'm like, did you know that you posted that on pop Apologies, your two daughters podcast.

And what did she say?

No, I didn't even confront her about it.

Oh, I know. I guarantee that she knew she was commenting that, by the way. She texted me something about... She was like, he's from a different time before fat was a bad word. A lot of David Foster apologism was happening with Deb.

She called me specifically to talk about it and tell me all about his charity work. I never heard her pontificate about anybody else before like this. And I don't understand why she has, why she's so hot for him.

I know. It's it's honestly caught us both so much by surprise because I had never even heard her say his name.

Never.

I didn't even know that she knew who he was. So to have her have such a heart on for David Foster, it just caught me completely by surprise.

Yeah. So the theme of today's episode is also witch hunt.

You know, Chana, I think it's totally fine to have a witch hunt against John Mayer, because I think when you look at all the women he has dated and you hear their recollections of it. I haven't even read this research, but I feel like the general taste in people's mouths is not good when they hear about John Mayers, when they hear from John Mayer's exes.

I don't think that he's left the majority of the women that he's been for a solid amount of time better than he found them.

No, he certainly doesn't observe the campfire rule. That's for sure.

What I will say is there were some surprising aspects in this article. I won't say that he's been redeemed by any means, but I do think he has made efforts. Not redeemed, but he's made efforts.

Before we dig fully in to his sins, to his efforts at redemption, can we ground ourselves in where we came to, like how we approach John Mayer, how we thought of John Mayer before this deep dive?

To be honest, I think my opinion of John Mayer, pre Speak Now, pre Dear John, was totally great. I actually don't think I knew I think about... The Jessica Simpson thing was not on my radar. I don't think I was old enough to understand how he had impacted her. So I just thought it was a total smoking hot guitarist.

It's interesting. I never fell into the John Mayer crush or had a thing for John Mayer. So many women are obsessed with John Mayer and have major crushes on him. And the reason is because we were told a story about John Mayer from a very early age, from from Courtney. And that story is- We were? I mean, maybe you never heard it, but Courtney- Let's not forget, you guys didn't really talk to me until I was 18. That's true. You were pretty annoying.

So there was a lot of history missed, okay? That's true.

Okay, so Courtney had a friend That basically she had the opportunity to hook up with John Maher. She went up to John Maher's hotel room. You never heard this?

I never heard this. This is breaking news to me.

Okay, this is shocking. So basically, she met John Maher in LA. I don't have the detail I don't think it was after a concert. I think she met him at the Chateau Marmon or something. Anyway, John Maher and her went up to his hotel room, and the girl says, allegedly, that John Maher asked her, just within a few minutes of her being in the hotel room, Is this going to happen or not? Because if it's not, you should leave.

Wow.

Yeah. And I think that always stuck with me. And so that just I always got such an ick from him. And then we got so much content from his exes. So I never had your Body as a Wonderland as the soundtrack of my romantic experiences because John Mayer just turns me off.

It's funny you bring up your Body as a Wonderland. I swear to God, that was like one of Mom and Dad's songs. Okay, I really don't want to talk about that. I just always made that It's a song, very gross to me.

For once, you're being a little disgusting. Thank you for bringing that up, Chandler.

I actually think I remember- It's like that and Savage Garden.

No, see, I think I remember that song coming on in the car and Mom having put it on and Dad being This is inappropriate. Like, basically like, This is inappropriate.

Basically like, Oh, really?

This is not an edifying song. Turn it off. Yes, completely. And Mom, she officially turned it off.

How does he know that those people aren't married?

Jenna, I think that all of the people in John Mayer's songs are married, and that's what you're going to have uncovered in this deep dive, and that is going to be his redemption.

They were all married in a church.

In a temple. Okay. Let's get into it.

We have so much to get into. This is quite a long deep dive because he has quite a history. And this is going to come across as slut-shaming, and I actually don't care at all. All right? Perfect. Let's go. I think it's worth just literally going down the list of the women that he has dated, because there are some surprising ones, and then I'll get into more detail. Rapid Fire. Okay. Rapid Fire, Vanessa Carlson, Jennifer Love-Hewitt, Jessica Simpson, Cameron Diaz, Minka Kelly, Jennifer Anaston, Sheena Marie, Rachida Jones, Taylor Swift, Rina Hammer, Renee Zelliger, Katie Perry, Kieran Shippka, Kristen Cavalieri.

It is a roster. It is a major roster. And that's just the women we know of. That's just the women we know of. Yeah.

Literally the women we know of. You don't know about the countless women that he has met, that are normal people, I guess. These are just A-listers.

Exactly.

Or other celebrities that we just never heard about. So since 2002, John Maher has dated some high-profile women in Hollywood.

Wait, before we fully dive in, do you have in this deep dive who... If John Mayer is who Whitehouses is about?

I literally have that written in my notes. Can you imagine? I don't think it's who he's written it. I don't think that he's who it's about, but yeah, that would honestly be... That song is my Roman Empire, if I'm being honest.

Honestly, I think Whitehouses, if you were lucky enough to be born, okay, young enough to where you could listen to Whitehouses as a virgin, that was an erotic experience for me.

Oh, yeah. I can imagine.

Right? I'm so sad. I have to continue recording this podcast, and I can't go listen to it right now. But please continue.

I know, I know. Anyway, so John Mare. Anyway. Like, I like... That one to me is really the banger. That and Pretty Baby are the bangers over a thousand miles.

Oh my gosh. Vanessa Carleton, what happened to her? She was really putting out some epic tunes.

Truly. So yes, Lauren, since 2002, when he really stepped out on the scene, he's been dating a lot of high-profile women. And his reputation has really gone through it. And a lot of this is due to a Playboy article that came out in 2010. Up until that article came out, he was like the Pete Davidson of the world. Just like, dates a lot of people. But I think the Playboy article and then tales from his exes afterwards really set off like, wow, we're actually learning about John Mayer and who he was in these relationships.

Okay.

And we're going to get into that article, but I think it's worth just going through his early dating history, and then we'll return to it. Okay, great. So Vanessa Carlson. This is going to be speedy. They got together and they dated for about a year. Vanessa later called John a, quote, bad breaker upper. And this was just when John was starting to become well known. That's really all the information we have about it. Okay. I've written his white house's about John Mayer.

I'm going to scour He was a genius after this.

Yeah. And that very same year, he starts dating Jennifer Love Hewitt. You know, he was starting to gain more popularity, and he didn't end up dating her for that long. But a long time rumor was that your Body as a Wonderland was about her. But actually, that was about his high school girlfriend. He cleared up the record.

Oh, really? Yeah. Do we know who that is? Do we have a photo?

I'm so glad you asked. We don't have a photo. But what we do know is that his high school girlfriend, the subject of Your Body is a Wonderland, is a judge in Ohio.

Wait, I'm sorry. I'm confused. Wait. She's currently operating and working as an honorable, venerable Judge, officer of the court.

Right. Please introduce the Honorable, Mrs. Your Body is a Wonderland.

Wow.

Oh, I find this fact to be utterly amazing. Very random. I hope she's doing well. And honestly, nothing would make me more confident, maybe, than knowing that song is written about me. And I'm also this badass judge.

I would pull a full Linda Thompson. That would be my Elvis. I would just be my Instagram profile. Your Body's a Wonderland. I would grab the handle. I would have it in my email signatures. I'd probably try to get it engraved on my little name placard on the bench.

Right. Right. Absolutely. How good would this be?

My Body is a Wonderland, and that's your IG handle.

That's a long...

Anyway, let's move forward.

We then move on to Jessica Simpson, which begins in 2006, all right? And this is a big one. I read Open Book, her memoir, and it was staggering to learn about their relationship. I think I actually talked about it on the podcast. Yeah.

Can we just acknowledge that you always call memoirs, memoirs? You always drag out that last... Memoir?

It's a memoir. Like, their memoir. Memoir.

I don't know.

What you say in this very romantic way. What do I say?

Memoir. Memoir. No, you say Memoir. Like, her memoir. And what do you say? Memoir. What do you say?

Memoir.

Memoir. Okay. But you say Memoir. In her memoir.

I live in a big city. I'm more sophisticated with you. That's just something you're going to have to get comfortable with.

You just put on your Parisian beret and you are like, writing poetry and talking about people's memoirs, whatever you bring up that word.

It's It's actually more of the fact that I probably don't know exactly how to pronounce it. So I just air on the side of overpronouncing it.

Anyway.

But this isn't about me. We're not talking about me. We're talking about Jessica Simpson. So John Mayer and Simpson started dating in 2006, right after her high-profile divorce from nick Lachet.

Where were you in 2006? Are you following?

Are you following? Not to brand. I was 11. I'm just trying to derail at every turn.

Apologies. I'll stay on topic. Okay. Okay, so they start dating in 2006.

They started dating in 2006. And it is a long relationship that is very on-again, off-again. And I know I've talked about this on the pod, but I think it's worth refreshing everybody what Jessica had described in her memoir that came out later on.

In her memoir.

In her memoir. Okay, so I'm going to briefly mention some of the things that Jessica talks about in her memoir detailing her relationship with John. So we know that this was an extremely toxic relationship, and that she always felt intellectually inferior to him. She describes nervously asking her friends to spellcheck her messages back and forth to him because he was always just like... She felt like running circles around her mentally. I think that is very telling of a relationship. I've dated people who are smarter than me, not very many. But I think that's something that John Mair we see intentionally does. John Mair thinks he's extremely smart. He basically thinks he should be in Mensa, and he's always trying to flex with his intellect, and it's very annoying to me.

I have dated also men like this. I remember when Kagan and I were first dating, and I played a song by Keith Urban, and I was like, I know it's so corny. I know this is so lame, but I love this song. And he was like, I don't think it's lame. And I remember being like, oh, you're not going to try to make me feel stupid right now for liking something mainstream? You have no interest in seeming cooler and smarter than me. It was so unique. Anyway, so I feel like so many guys are like this. And, yeah, you have to go through that fire, I think, to appreciate nice guys when they come along.

Absolutely. I mean, I think that you are most attracted, I'm speaking for women in general, you're most attracted to the two cool guys for a reason, because they put on Ares of Being Too Cool. I love that about Kagan. What song was it, just out of curiosity, Memories of You? I'm making Memories of You.

I think that would have been laying it on pretty thick. I know.

I was like, That is pretty I did.

I do not remember.

I love that. It's funny. I love that. It's cute. Okay. All right. Let's get back to it, though. John dumped Jessica over nine times, okay? Always over email. And yeah, pretty rude. Then he would come crawling back saying he actually discovered that he loved her. He would say things to her like, You're not living up to your potential, and I love the idea of who you could be, basically. It was really fucking annoying.

That's actually so rude.

It's so rude. It's like, who you are in this point in time is not good enough for me, but I hope that you will rise to the occasion and become the better version of yourself who I will eventually love.

It's just textbook, toxic emotional abuse.

Right, right.

And you have to wonder, is this guy a sociopath? Does this guy actually have feelings? Like that Taylor Swift Lyric, The biggest fear is that you never loved me or her or anyone. I can't believe you just quoted, I knew you were trouble, too.

I was so ready for it this hard. I Lyric. You might as well just quote it like, You need to calm down. It's like that Taylor Swift Lyric, You need to calm down.

Well, it's like... And you know, it's just amazing that Jessica, she couldn't... Like that Taylor Swift Lyric, Shake it off, this relationship. That obscure Lyric.

I actually feel it's honestly disrespectful to quote that as some of Taylor's best lyrical work.

No, because I think that is a great fear you can have as someone looking back on a relationship. Yes. Because Is that would... The idea that this person actually... Because that's the scary thing about narcissists, is that they're not real people. They don't have real feelings. None of it's real. They're just vapors inside, and they're basically just like, they're completely empty. They're vessels. And so that's the scariest fear of all. I don't think you've thought deeply enough about this, Lea. I haven't.

I haven't. I need to ponder it.

The greatest fear is that you never much me or her or anyone.

I knew you were trouble when he walked in. Yeah! All right. Okay. What we'll see over the course of this case that I'm laying out is that John Maher is an ego-maniac, and he loves the way women reflect back to him. That's what the love that he is chasing. It is like, how do you reflect back to me? I don't want to jump ahead, but it'll become very clear, I think also in his, some of his more recent comments that he's made. Let's continue on, though, with the Jessica Simpson relationship. Okay. John said that he was addicted to her, and that was what we'll see as well in this playboy article. In 2007, a year later, they broke up in a way that seemed final. And then, Jessica begins dating Tony Romo. And John and Jessica still stay in contact through text and email. And she says that she would show the contact to Tony, but Tony did not like it. And that was actually the reason why they broke up. But a quick story that I think shows John being totally unhinged is that while Jessica and Tony Roma are dating, John would go over to Jessica Simpson's family house.

And Jessica came in one time and she was like, What are you doing? And he was there literally professing his love to her family, trying to get her back.

It's just textbook narcissism, right? Once they can't feed off of you and once you are no longer giving them that attention, they freak out. And yes, they freak out with your family. They ingratiate themselves in your lives, in your life to somehow get you back. It's like Tom Sandoval on VPR being like, I still love Rachel, and so I'm sending her this stuff.

And Anyway. I'm going to play a clip that describes how he broke up with her one of the times. Okay. And it's really sad because she was set to go on stage and perform with Dolly Parton. It was like one of the biggest moments of her career, performing with her idol. And he broke up with her, I think the night before or the day of. And it just totally actually ruined her performance. She actually walked off stage. Yeah, so I'll let her explain it, though.

She fills up a portion of her book, but she also gives a lot of ink to to another man she loved. And in pops a guy named John Maher.

He might be the one that won't like to read this book very much. No, no. There's stories in here that John knows. He might be shocked that I reveal.

John Maher, who has been linked to Katie Perry and Jennifer Anaston, stole Jessica's heart, and she says broke it over and over or again?

We were great at intimacy. We were great at loving each other.

That was easy, but the relationship was very complex.

It was always on again, off again. I went back close to nine times.

And one of the days he broke up, the Kennedy Center Honors.

Yes, it was the Kennedy Center Honors. He broke up with me, our third breakup or something. It was right before I was going to do this huge thing.

It was 2006, and Jessica was set to perform 9:00 to 5:00 to honor her idol, Dolly Parton. In the audience, President Bush and a room full of dignitaries.

I drank before I went on stage. That is not John's fault. I'm the one that drank. I just stopped and I froze, and then I just said I was sorry, and that Dolly deserved better.

Jessica left the stage and never finished the song, revisiting that night, and one photo in particular is still hard for her. You and Dolly and Reba and Shania.

This picture that most people would hang in their house.

It's like these mentors of mine that are country goddesses.

The story behind it.

And the story behind it. I can't even look at the picture. I can't look at my face because I know the pain that I was having, and I didn't feel worthy of being in that photo.

I mean, he must have known what she was doing, right?

Oh, of course he did. Of course he did. He doesn't care. He doesn't care. It is John's world.

It's on purpose. It's on purpose.

It's all about him and he, whatever he's feeling, and him needing to break up with her, that was the most important thing. It was never about Jessica. It's John first. I never heard that story I guess, also to correct, I don't think she was performing with Dolly Parton. I think she was performing to Dolly Parton and, a room full of dignitaries. Big deal. Oh my gosh. And the fact that she just walked off stage. I mean, she talks about her issues with drinking and whatnot. But I just think, who would Jessica Simpson be if, honestly, John Mayer hadn't just done a number on her. It makes me really sad.

Yeah, it's horrible. It's absolutely horrible.

Okay, everyone. And you might be sitting here listening like, Why hasn't she talked about the play by article yet? We're going to get to that. I just want to get through some of the chronological order of the that he dated.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so let's move on to Cameron Diaz, who he dates in 2007 after him and Jessica are done. They were seen at NYC's Bowery Hotel being super flirty all over each other. Nothing serious ever came of it, though. He then goes on to date Minka Kelly in that same year. They split on good terms, apparently, and it was just a short relationship. Another crazy story that happened around the same time, he made out with Perez Hilton in a club.

He made out with Perez Hilton, a guy? Yes. That is crazy.

Yeah. Interesting. John Mayer, this is a part of the story, John Mayer leaned in to Perez Hilton and told him, I like to watch gay porn. My favorite porn star is Brett Corrigan. He really turns me on. And Mayor supposedly followed that up by shoving his tongue down Hilton's throat.

Wow. Okay. How do more people I don't know this. I don't know.

I really don't know.

It's just interesting information.

Yeah. Okay. So now we're getting to Jennifer Anaston. And I remember this relationship actually being a lot longer than it was. It seemed to me like they dated for forever, but they really only dated for a year. Do you remember this relationship?

I think it's because it just got so much publicity that they were dating, and that he was a little bit younger than her. And I think it was post-Brad, right?

Mm-hmm. Post-brad. And she's eight years older than him. So they got together in early 2008 at an Oscar's party, and the next year, they looked smitten at a 2009 Vanity Fair Oscar party, but then they broke up shortly thereafter. They had gotten together right after her divorce from Brad Pitt, but before her marriage to Justin Thoreau.

Yeah, he was like a rebound F-boy for her.

Yeah, but they dated for a while, and he has just had basically nothing but glowing things to say about her. It's very interesting to see the way that he talks about his relationship with Jessica and the way he talks about her as a woman versus the way he talks about Jennifer. And this really is revealed in the Playboy article, which we will now talk about. Okay, so in 2010, John is interviewed by Playboy, and this article is just Just absolutely wild. I was rewriting it to prepare for this, and the things that he feels comfortable saying are utterly crazy. I mean, he talks a ton about how much he loves porn. The way that he talks about the way that he talks about just getting laid, and it is like, bad boy, rock star.

So he's just like, proudly out promiscuous man.

Yes, absolutely. It's so crazy. I also just want to say, some of this, I barely feel comfortable speaking out loud. But anyway, I will read some excerpts from this playboy article. The article really embarrassed Jessica Simpson and Jennifer Anaston. This is a quote from the article. When asked about how many women he slept with since splitting with Anaston, may are estimated four or five, no more. But even if I said twelve, that's a reasonable number. So is fifteen. Here's the thing. I get less ass now than I did when I was in a local band, because now I don't like jumping through hoops. Later, John Meyer says, There have probably been days when I saw 300 vaginas before I got out of bed, referring to early morning bids on online pornography.

Wow. Oh, okay.

He also said some racist things. He said, I am a very. I'm just very. V-e-r-y. And if you can't handle very, then I'm a douchebag. But I think the world needs a little very. That's why black people love me. It goes on and gets worse. Wait, what's a very, though? Very what? He's just saying, I think that's like, he's just an extra person. He's extra. Yeah, I think it's like extra. He says, My dick is like a white supremacist. I've got a Bennington heart and a effing David Duke cock. I'm going to start dating separately from my dick.

Okay, he must have been just completely on drugs during this interview. No, I don't think so. No one actually speaks this way. This is insane.

I think he does. And the interviewer talks about how he just talks and talks and talks. And it once subject leads to another subject. Jessica even talks about this in her book. One minute, they're talking about one thing, the next minute, he's talking about the concept of time, blah, blah, blah. It's just like, no, thank you. He thinks he's an expert pontificator.

No, I went on a date with a guy, and he had the same style. It was like, we would be talking about salt. I don't know. It would be like salt on the table, something super mundane. And he would be like, this reminds me of the time that I was motorcycling through Africa. And then he would... That's how that would lead to the Civil War and-Right, right. And dynasties falling. It would just be... It's just such... It's so effective. It's so try hard. It's so pick me. It's so wild.

It's not narcissism. But what is it?

I mean, I I think that's part of it, right? I think that at every moment, it's someone who's trying to impress upon the person they're speaking with, their own intellectual superiority of their own prowess, whatever it is. I think that it definitely is playing into his own ego for sure.

Right, right. Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to read you some more excerpts. For what it's worth, the title of the article is The Playboy Interview with John Mayer. The Tabloid's Favorite Rockstar on Jessica Simpson, Jennifer Anaston, and Why the Best Sex Happens alone. The fact that so many women love this guy, it just is so depressing. I know.

I still do. It is so depressing. It is so depressing.

The interviewer asks, What percentage of the album is about Anaston? He says, I don't want to say I feel bad because people think heartbreak warfare is about her. I want to go on record saying it's not. That woman would never use heartbreak warfare. That woman was the most communicative, sweetest, kindest person. When I hear the record, I hope the songs make them think about their lives is not my life. Like, when you listen to Coldplay, do you think about Gwyneth Paltrow? I don't write songs in order to stick it to my exes. I don't release underground diss tracks.

Except he completely released Paper Dolls. Right.

About Taylor Swift. Yeah. The interview continues. You've rarely talked about Anaston. She has rarely talked about you. John says, We just have a regard for each other's feelings that is pretty intense. It's been a deep relationship and it's no longer taking place at all. Have you ever loved somebody, loved her completely, but had to end the relationship for life reasons? For life reasons.

That's what he says.

He also goes on to say that she didn't like how much he was on Twitter, how he was into technology, was distracting. Basically, the interviewer says, Maybe she'll download the album from BitTorrent. And John says, If Jennifer Anaston knows how to use BitTorrent, I'll eat my fucking shoe. He says, She saw my involvement in technology as courting distraction. Yeah, anyway.

I do have this fantasy that Jennifer Anaston exists in a world that is just... It's a Jennifer Cain. It's a Jenny Cain oasis. It is filled with lots of plush cashmere's beautiful throw pillows. Just so much comfort and coastal California vibes, yoga. Oh, no, she is. She's on Twitter.

No, she's not. He continues talking about Jennifer Anaston, and the interviewer asked him about a certain song. And he says, You said that song isn't about Anaston. Why is it important for people to know that? And he says, I'm very protective of Jen. The interviewer asks, Do you still love her? And he says, Yes, always. I'll always be sorry that it didn't last. In some ways, I wish I could be with her. But I can't change the fact that I need to be 32.

Oh, he was that young?

. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that tracks for me.

Yeah. It definitely... He clearly was in love with being a young rock star, sleeping with tons of women.

It's gross, but I also feel like it's just... At least he had the wherewithal, not that I'm his defense attorney, but at least he had the wherewithal to know himself and to... I think the nicest thing he ever did was probably get himself out of her life.

Right, right.

I would die to know what Jennifer has to about John Mayer. I mean, I think she's too classy. Oh, of course. So classy. Yeah. So classy. Also, I know this is a little bit of a tangent, but I just would die to know her thoughts on Brad and Angie. Oh, yeah. Everything. She really... I mean...

But this is what I think makes her a queen. She's just never going to say anything. Yeah. She's above the fray. Yeah. Okay. But moving on to what he says about Jessica Simpson. Okay. So the question is, in 2006, you began dating Jessica Simpson, and the paparazzi started stalking you, turning you into a tabloid fixture. Certainly, you knew that was going to happen. John says, It wasn't as direct as me saying, 'I now make the choice to bring paparazzi into my life. ' I really said, 'I now make the choice to sleep with Jessica Simpson. ' That was stronger than my desire to stay out of the paparazzi's eye. That girl for me is a drug, and drugs aren't good for you if you do lots of them. Yeah, that girl is like crack cocaine to me. I think it's also interesting. Look at the way he says... He doesn't say, 'I now make the choice to date Jessica Simpson. He says, I now make the choice to sleep with Jessica Simpson.

Oh, for sure. No, it's all about having sex with her. It's all about her body. And I feel like we've discussed this quote before. We have. What deep dive was that? What deep dive was that?

I think I talked about And more. So it That's right. That's right. Yeah, right. So the interviewer continues, You were addicted to Jessica Simpson. He says, Sexually was crazy. That's all I'll say. It was like sexual napalm. Which I still don't know what that really means, slash it.

Should we look it up? Should we look up what napalm is once and for all? I feel like I looked it up as well.

I feel like I looked it up and I was still confused.

Okay, so napalm is a weaponized mixture of chemicals designed to create a highly flammable and gelatinous liquid. So I think he's just saying she was just like, it was firework.

Yeah, firework. Yes, on the sexy fire. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

You know, he's so smart. We can't even decipher what he's saying.

I can't even remember. And I've done two deep dives on this. That is the big quote that sparked a chain reaction where Jessica spoke out multiple times about how disrespectful she felt like that was.

When you first write me this quote, I was a little bit like, oh, I would be complimented on some level. Maybe because it just sounds so far fetched that anyone, that no one thought I was that great of an experience. But I completely understand where she's coming from. He literally talks about her like she is just a body.

She's just a piece of ass to him.

She's literally just super hot, and he wanted to talk her. Which also, I think, is such a big fear women When they're dating, it's so hard to know, does this guy actually like me, or does he just want to screw me?

He really spells it out in this next quote. So the next question. But before you dated her, you thought of yourself as the guy who would never date Jessica Simpson, which is so fucking annoying.

What does that mean?

She's blonde? Like, Bimbo vibes. You're too smart for girls like Jessica Simpson.

Okay.

So John says, That's correct. There are people in the world who have the power to change our values.

Have you Yeah. Yeah.

Our values. I was able to stoop to her level. Then he goes on to say, Have you ever been with a girl who made you want to quit the rest of your life? Did you ever say, I want to quit my life and just effing snort you? If you charged me $10,000 to fuck you, I would start selling all my shit just to keep fucking you.

I get why she was so hooked on him. Because when a guy worships you this much, it's pretty intoxicating.

Right, right, right. And someone worships you this much and then is also pulling the cord half the time. It's just the highest of high is the lowest of lows.

Right. Because there's pooky adulation, pooky-level adulation, which can sometimes be a little creepy. It's like when a guy just... It's like he's patting you on the head.

Yeah, like you're a pet.

But this is the perfect mixture of love bombing and pulling away. I think that would be napalm to a lot of us heterosexual women. Yeah.

It's just crazy, though, hearing him say, There are people in the world who have the to change our values. It was beneath my values to date Jessica Simpson. Right, right. No, I'm such an asshole. Jessica Simpson is a wonderful person. Such an asshole.

Because what he's saying there is, I value intellect and intelligence. But she was so hot that I changed my values to just wanting to screw her. I was able to stoop to that level. Yeah, yeah.

The interviewer starts to ask another question, and John says, Pardon me for interrupting. I love Jen so much that I'm now thinking about how bad I would feel if she read this and was like, Why are you putting me in an article where you're talking about someone else? I don't want to be in your the edge of kiss and tells. It's just so clear how he wants the respect of Jen, even post-relationship, who doesn't give a single fuck about Jessica. She's just fully discarded.

And I think that he clearly just does not respect Jessica whatsoever, but has a lot of respect for Jennifer Anastin. And he probably thinks Jessica's an idiot. He probably did not respect her intellect whatsoever. And Jennifer came across to him as much more classy, much more whatever. And so, yeah, he wants her approval because of his values, Chandler.

Right. His values. Last question I want to just read for you. The interviewer asks, At this point, what's your ideal relationship? And he goes, Here's what I really want to do at 32. So he is 32 when this happened. Here's what I really want to do at 32. Fuck a girl. And then as she's sleeping in bed, make breakfast for her. So she's like, What? You gave me five vaginal orgasms last night, and you're making me a spinach omelet? You are the shit. So she says, I love this guy. I say, I love this girl loving me. And then we have a problem, because that entails instant relationship I'm already playing house. And when I lose interest, she's going to say, Why would you do that if you didn't want to stick with me?

Okay, so he wants to give the girlfriend experience, but he doesn't want a girlfriend. He doesn't.

It doesn't actually care about the girlfriend. And if you listen to this, it's like, he wants to feel the praise from her, reflected back to him. It's not about, I want to find someone who is X, Y, or Z. It's like, I want to make someone so happy that they worship me.

To be honest with you, as you're reading that quote, it was so confusing. So I was like, Wait, there's a girl here and she's talking? No, this is his narration of what she's saying back to him. Exactly. Which is, Thank you so much for this... You're a chef and you're just a stallion in the sheets. Yeah, it's all about him.

But I don't know.

It just definitely tracks, though, for 32-year world heartthrob, very talented musician who is objectively very attractive. You could see how this monster could easily be created. I mean, they talk a lot about, or there's a discourse about what happens to people when they become famous. And for men, a lot of times, it's not a good trajectory.

Right. But Lauren, I want to get to someone else whose path crossed with John Maher. None other than Sheena Shay.

Ah, yes. I was waiting for this.

Worlds are colliding, all right? Sheena was in a thruple with John Maher and Stacey Adams. I first read this as Stacey Abrams, and I was like, What? And I was like, Wait, is there another- Plot twist. Like, literally Stacey Adams. So Sheena gave, honestly, the most hilarious interview—it's good as Gold, where she talks about the relationship, and I'm going to play it for you. But basically, she met John while she was working at the Grand Havana Room when he was still dating Jennifer. They both came in, They like, drank together a little bit, and then they ended up breaking up. John came back and pursued Sheena and Stacy, you know. It was as a thruple. You know, this deep dive is certainly not PG.

No, it's absolutely not. And so they were just in a thruple.

It was They were in a thruple for like, six months.

Honestly, it's just taking me a second for that to really sink in. Three people in a relationship. This was not a threesome at Chateau Marmont on, you know.

I mean, it was like, sorry, not three people in a relationship. I think it was like three people hooking up.

Okay, so they were just hooking up together.

Yes, they were just hooking up together for like six months though.

But they were not actually- But they were not actually- But they were not actually- Right, because he doesn't do breakfast. He doesn't do- Right. The girlfriend time after the Spanish omelet.

We're going to have a problem if she thinks we're in a relationship.

We're going to have a problem. This is a threesome. This is not a thrupper, ladies. We're going to have a problem. Let's be clear. Let's be clear. If you want anything beyond the eggs, breakfast only in this house, ladies.

I think that we should make some clips with this interview because it's so perfectly like, I don't know, early 'auts' or mid 'auts', even though... I don't know if you can call 2010 mid 'auts', but anyway. It's a Young Hollywood's exclusive with John Mayer's new friend.

Hey, everyone. It's Michelle Marie, and I'm sitting here in the Hollywood Hills with Sheena Marie. Now, it sounds like we're sisters, but we're not. But we're going to talk like sisters right now because she is giving me the exclusive with John Mayer. Now, so many people right now are wondering what is the real story? And We've been hearing rumors like you're dating, you're his girlfriend, you guys just hang out. We want to hear it from you. First off, I just want to know, how did you guys meet?

I met him. I work at the Grand Huvana Room in Beverly Hills, and he had his birthday party there last year. I happened to be the lucky girl that got to work it.

It wasn't this past April. A lot of people were saying it was just this past month.

No, I mean, I met him previously, but when I met him, he was with Jennifer. I walked her to the bathroom. She didn't know where it was. It's hidden back. She told me how pretty I was, and she was just like, Oh, my God, you have such beautiful eyes. It's not like she was so sweet. They seemed happy. They were cute and cuddly and drank the same drink. What was the drink? It was a Patron platinum on the Rock with a lime. I had to keep getting her extra lime because she liked a lot of lime.

Did you see any sparks or did you feel any chemistry with John at that moment?

I mean, we all had some drinks together, and he's a really funny guy. He just has an amazing personality. I know sometimes that can be taken off as flirtation. I don't know.

Okay, so this is a while back now, and recently, obviously, the reports are saying that you guys are hanging out. Tell me, from then on, what happened.

He came back into the club just recently, a couple of months They were broken up. We talked this and that, and we both were going through a breakup at the same time. I think when two people have something in common like that, we were both sad at a certain time.

It was after they were broken up when you guys started talking?

Yeah, that I want to make clear. No one's cheating on anyone. This wasn't like, At his birthday, he flipped me his number, vice versa. This is just recently.

We want to know the real deal. What is the status between you and John?

He's not my boyfriend. We're hanging Yes. You know, whatever. However you want to take that, but not my boyfriend.

What things do you guys do together?

Obviously, we've never been out together. There's no pictures of us together. But we're just going to get a little bit of his imagination, hanging out. We're... We have a time.

Let me just stop you and say, I was just begging for her to be like, We watch movies or something. But she's like, I'm going to leave it to the imagination.

I'm obsessed with Sheena Shay in this interview. I know. It's her best work of all time.

She's never been happier than in this interview. I've never seen She's glowing.

She's glowing to say that she's screwing John Maher and that she's one of his booty calls. This is her Elvis right now.

It literally is. Okay.

It's all about keeping it on the DL, right? Yeah, totally. So We all know how John is with paparazzi.

John says the best thing to say is no comment. But sometimes when you just... There's so many people breathing down your neck, and that's why I wanted to set this straight. I'm not his girlfriend, but it's just I don't want people also saying things about me that are false. Especially at a time like this when I have a new show on the Disney channel with the Jonas Brothers coming out. I don't need people like Perez Hilton calling me a media whore. I mean, really?

Yeah, but see, that's the thing, though. Because you have a show coming out, everyone thinks that this is why you are out in the media.

Everyone thinks that, Oh, Sheena sold the story. Of course not. I wouldn't jeopardize my job, a friendship, anything, because this hasn't just hurt me, hurt him. I mean, my family is being brought into this right now. I'm getting... My mom's getting reporters calling her, and it's like, I would never do that to my family. That's not me. I'm not that person. There are quotes out there for me. It's like spring break. I mean, I don't talk like that. I don't say things like that. And obviously, someone being in the public eye all the time, he understands what it's like for people to make up rumors.

I mean, we can cut it there, but this is a seven-minute interview that is so good.

Wow. That was excellent, Chandler. I mean, if she would just go out on that high, that's it everyone.

I literally I would. But there's like eight more pages.

Oh my gosh. Okay.

Obviously, Sheena is not mentioning that it's a three-person sexual relationship here, but we have more details on that. She says, We had a little throuple going on, but then there was me and another her. Everyone always had attention. So I think it means, yeah, it was all good. She explains that she was actually eventually fired from the Grand Havana Room because a coworker told on her for her relationship. She says she never told a soul, but she got fired because she wasn't allowed to frattenize with members. So she calls John and she tells him, I just lost my job. There are all these rumors swirling. And she called John Mary to tell him that she didn't link the story. And he believed her. He said, No, it's cool. I don't think you would do that. We've been hanging out for six months. You probably would have done it by now. And so I was like, You know I'm losing my job over this. It was the week of my birthday. And I'm like, I don't think as a cocktail waitress, we really get a severance package. She says that to him? She says that to him, yeah.

I don't think he gave her money or anything. But you know what? God works in mysterious ways because you know where she ended up getting a job? Stop.

No. That's what led her to the doors of Villa Blanca and Lisa Vanderpunt.

We should be thanking John Meyer.

She She owes John Mayer her career.

That is crazy. That is literally. I mean, it wasn't the Jonas Brothers show. The one thing I will say is the pendulum that Sheena Shay has swung on when it comes to the men that she has cavorted with from Eddie Sibrian.

Eddie Cybrian and John Mayer to the Dungeon head of her first husband. There's been quite a range.

Right. No, it's amazing. Anyway. Yeah. She's a mystery to me. An enigma wrapped in cash. All those things. Like, I just... Yeah. You just watch that interview with her, too, and she's just like... Nobody comes across as more naive. No. But, you know? Absolutely. But it's all worked out for her.

So did he dump her, though? Like, unceremoniously? So when she basically was low-key asking for money?

Well, no, no, no. Sheena says, I definitely got jealous towards the end because I knew he liked her more. Meaning Stacey. Stacey actually ended up being a bridesmaid in her wedding, though. So it was like everything ended okay. But She says, talking about Stacy and John. She says, Wait, I brought you into this and now you're getting more attention than I'm getting? Like, what's up with that? She says, And then after him and I stopped talking, they still continued talking. And there were a lot of things, like her and I had an awkward friendship falling out. But then, well, we came full a year later, and we've never been closer.

Okay.

All that ends well.

But ends well with that friendship. But what about her and John?

Stacy and John?

No, what about Sheena and John?

Sheena and John break up because she felt like Stacey got you. He was more into Stacey. It was clear. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Got you. So after things end with Sheena, Stacey, and John, he's spotted with Rachida Jones. I don't know if it was confirmed that they were in a relationship, but they were spotted together at a charity event. I honestly think she might just be too good for him. So that one seems a little weird for me.

I was going to say, I feel like that would be someone who would be compromising their values to be with John Mayer.

Exactly. Yeah. I know. But we got to be careful because you know who's up next?

Who? Taylor. Our God. Okay, let's hear. Although, this is what I'm going to say about this really quick. If there's anyone perfectly primed to be drawn in by John Mayer's tricks and his particular brand of male allure and gravitas, it's Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift, I'm sure, sunk her teeth so hardcore into John Mayer's clutches.

I mean, 19-year-old Taylor Swift, too?

Oh, right. Naive, completely unaware. Oh, this was a match made in hell. But Sonic Heaven for us.

Sonic Heaven. Okay. Let us begin. Court is in session.

Okay.

John unknowingly dug the grave for the first chapter of his celebrity life when he tweeted that he was working on a song and wanted to sing it with a 19-year-old fearless artist. This is the tweet, Waking up to this song idea that won't leave my head. Three days straight in a row. That means it's good enough to finish. He wrote this in March 2009. It's called Half of My Heart, and I want to sing it with Taylor Swift. She would make a killer Stevie Nicks in contrast to my Tom Petty of a song. Okay? March 2009.

Something tells me that he just wanted to fuck Taylor Swift. Right. Continue.

They recorded the song, and then at some point between December 2009 and February 2010, John and Taylor had a relationship.

It's short.

Keep in mind, too, March of 2010 is when the Playboy article comes out.

Okay, so wait, sorry. Ground me in the dates again.

So between December 2009 and February 2010, they have some type of relationship.

And then, so very shortly thereafter, he does the Playboy interview.

Correct.

Correct. Yeah. And does he talk about her in Playboy?

I don't know. No, I don't think so. I don't think she was super notable for him. I don't know. And maybe also people didn't totally know.

When the history books are written, Chandler, the historians will sit together with their quills and they will just put John Mayer, asterisk, and then at the bottom it will say, Also, So a singer of some note. And that... He is just a footnote in Taylor Swift's world.

Right. This man has been known to pick up a guitar. That's all we really know or care about him. That's it.

Yes. But he will just be known as someone that she wrote a song about. The only reason he'll even be in the books, is because of Dear John. Literally.

And this is when I enter the scene as a person in the world, because it is just unfathomable to me how he hurt her. So Taylor Swift ended up writing a harsh breakup song called Dear John. And basically all but confirmed it was about him. John did a interview in 2012 where he said, 'It made me feel terrible because I didn't deserve it. I'm pretty good at taking accountability now, and I never did anything to deserve that. It was a really lousy thing for her to do. I never I never got an email. I never got a phone call. I was really caught off guard, and it really humiliated me at the time when I'd already been dressed down. How would you feel if at the lowest you'd ever been, someone kicked you even lower? It's just like... I don't feel bad for you.

No, not at all.

Yeah.

Why did he discuss what a masterpiece of a song that is?

Oh, he couldn't. He couldn't. It would jeopardize his own career.

She was shining like fireworks all over his sad, scary town. I don't know the exact words. No, that's not.

Shining like fireworks over your sad empty town.

Sad empty town. That's right. A sad, scary town. I knew it wasn't right. And you know what, Chama? There's no responsibility in that town, okay? Oh, yeah. There's no responsibility ever taken in that town. There's none.

No, zero. Also, he was 32, she was 19.

Yeah. Well.

Okay, so just once again, back to the Playboy article. Speak Now was released in October 2010, when all women still really hated John after his Playboy article from earlier that year. It's interesting to think about the head space and the behavior patterns that John must have been in at that time to both hurt Taylor Swift and give his worst interview of all time within a very close time frame. And also he was Sheena. Yeah.

So in the court of public opinion, he was just completely Like, his PR was in tatters. He was done in that moment.

And that's why he's saying, ' someone kicked me when I was already down. ' Right, right, right, right, right. Boohoo. I'm going to read some Reddit blurbs with people talking about their opinion of the song. Okay. Some people think He tried to sue Taylor for using his name. Did you know that?

Oh, really?

No, I didn't. Yeah. But her team said it was simply taken from the Dear John letter, just like that. Idium or whatever.

Also, I don't think that you can sue someone for using your name. You can't. It's called freedom of speech.

I think so, yeah. I'm sure the judge in Ohio would agree.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, my gosh. She's just handing down that innocent verdict to Taylor.

We don't know what exactly he did to Taylor Swift. We know about the song, but we don't know exactly what happened. Everything we think we know is based on an interpretation of song lyrics. This is also from a Reddit comment, just FYI. Everything we think we know is from that song, and it's reading in between the lines. We don't even know for sure if they dated in the truest sense of the word. Unlike every other person with whom Taylor has been in a confirmed relationship, there's no paparazzi pictures of her and John in a restaurant, in a car, or anywhere else in public. All pictures of them are at industry events or on stage together. Obviously, it's pretty clear that something went down between them that caused her to be deeply hurt. And for him to feel like he was blindsided by, Dear John, this is this person saying, My take is that based on my life experience, they probably got close after working together, eventually hooked up. He thought it was casual. She thought it was the start of something. He led her on and then ghosted her, and she wrote a song about how she felt in the aftermath.

You know what's so annoying about that? It sounds like someone who's never actually listened to the song. And just staying like, Oh, the constant trope. She want a commitment. He didn't. And that's... And he broke it off.

He was just having fun.

Boys will be boys. I'm sorry, have you listened to the actual depth of suffering in that song? Okay. He was never impressed with her acing his test. I mean, this went so beyond them just having different expectations. This was a man who was cruel.

It was a song about his emotional abuse. Yes, completely. I mean, never impressed by her acing her test that cooperates, corroborates. I always say it wrong.

Corroborates, yeah.

That corroborates Jessica Simpson's account of him making her feel dumb. When Taylor says, Long were the nights when the days once revolved around you, counting my footsteps, praying the floor won't fall through. It's just like, Are we going to be together? Are we going to break up? Like, just the never feeling secure.

Yeah. It's so not about just, Oh, he just ghosted her because she got clingy. It's like, no, this was a toxic dynamic that she wrote about beautifully in her alum, Speak Now. So F you to this redditter.

Screw that. Yeah. I think that's very clearly from a dude. Also, would've, could've, should've, I believe, is about John Mayer. Oh, yeah. Such a John. Give me back my girlhood. It was my first.

Chels.

Full-body Chels. I think, this is the first toxic relationship she was maybe ever in.

Yeah. I mean, I think that this... Unfortunately, she was suited up with some armor. Some walls were built, okay? And she would need that armor as she entered her foray with Jim Jelen Hall just a few years later.

Wow. Amen. Okay. Unfortunately, we have to get back to John because that's what our podcast is about. I would rather just talk about Taylor. I agree.

Let's actually just dissect the lyrics of Dear John instead of talking anymore about John Mare.

Yeah, let's just finish it out. Long were the night. It's so, it's so good. It's so good. So, Lauren, you may not know this, but after Taylor Swift went on to spend some time with Kim Kardashian. Okay.

I didn't know that.

Yeah. He went on a few times.

Is Dear John Is that on the Ares Tour? Is that on the setlist?

I don't think so. I think she's... I don't think so either. I think it's been a surprise song or something. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. Lauren, no more Taylor Swift. We have to talk about John Mayer. And then after we're done recording, we can go back to talking about Taylor Swift. It's perfect. Anyway, He went on some dates with Kim Kardashian. But, you know, she... That fizzled, and she went on to date and marry Chris Humphreys. He goes on to then date Renee Zelliger. They only dated for about a month. Nothing really happened. And then we get into the Katie Perry chapter of John Mayer. Do you remember this?

I do remember this. Yeah, they dated for quite a while.

Oh, quite a while. It was a roller coaster, though. So they dated from 2012 to 2015, that they went public in 2012. And a few months after that, though, they called it off. And it was off again, on again, par for the course for him. They split again in March of 2013, so a year later. But then they were reunited over the summer and recorded their romantic duet, Who You Love. Do you know this song?

I don't know this song, Jolly.

You don't know this song? Wait, can I play it a little bit for you? Sure. I love it. It's a duet between the two of them. It's really good. It's really good. You don't know this at all?

Oh, yeah. I've heard this song. Yeah. You love who you love, who you love. I hate his voice.

You love who you love, Okay, you can turn it off.

Thank you. That's enough. A beautiful song. You know what? You know what just makes me irate about John Maher? What? Because his voice actually is beautiful, but it's knowing that he's such an asshole. Oh, yeah. And he's actually not a super romantic person, genuinely. He just is super promiscuous and uses women. It just is so infuriating because it's like, I don't know, you just would like the author, the person behind this music to be a genuine source of romantic virtue. And it's just hollow.

I think to his idea of romance is how much a girl loves him. Yeah, right, right. Actually, I have another quote, too, from the Playboy article that I I think nods to this. He says, at one point, he says, For me, it has never been about fucking lots of girls. I could have fucked a lot more girls in my life if I hadn't been trying so hard to get them to like me. If I have a conversation with a really hot girl that lasts all night and she says, Wow, I had no idea I was going to like you this much, ' end quote. He goes, That is the equivalent for me of getting laid.

' Yeah. Okay. So he doesn't need just physicality. He needs obsession. No. Obsession. He needs you to be completely- Lauren, there is a quote within the last year that further confuses us.

No. It's shocking. I think I should get a master's degree in John Mayer after this episode. Absolutely.

A PhD. This has been a stunning dissertation.

Stunning. Thank you. Okay, so Basically, by February 2014, they had split again, but then they were closing up together in September of 2015.

Him and Katie are on again, off again. Him and Katie, they were on again.

They wrote that song together. The song gets released. But a year later, they break up. They get back together once again. They split up. By 2016, she's dating Orlando Bloom, and the rest is history. She, at one point said that they had to call it quits due to their busy schedules, but that she saw John as a tortured soul. She even said, I do have to figure out why I'm attracted to these broken birds, referring to both John Mayer and Russell Brand, her ex-husband. Also, at one point, Katie Perry has to rank Diplo, Orlando Bloom and John Mayer as lovers, or she has to eat a thousand-year-old egg, and she decided to rate them. She said Diplo was number three, Orlando was number two, and John Maher was number one.

You know, I believe it. I know. I believe it, too. Here's what I really know what my Roman Empire is.

What?

Has John Maher ever made love to a woman with his own music playing?

Probably. Right? I feel like... For sure. Maybe it's not an every time thing, but that's absolutely been a thing. And then he's like, I just go with it.

Completely been a thing. No, I think that... Come on. If you're a John Maher fan, that's actually your fantasy.

You want that playing.

You want that playing. Right. When those brunette tendrils are scurrying downward.

That's enough. That's enough. So moving on to 2022, getting into more recent years, because his dating life has kept a much lower profile, I would say in the last 10 years. Post Katie Perry, I would say. There were rumors about John and Kiernan Shippga. Do you know who Kiernan Shippga is?

I don't.

Why don't you Google her? Because you'll recognize her. And I don't know her IMDb by heart.

Okay. Okay. I recognize her. She's very young.

She's like the little girl in Mad Men.

Right now, she's 24. So he recently had a relationship with... She was 24.

I think when she was 24... No, or she might have been 22, and he was... There's a Either way, no matter what, there is a 22-year age gap between the two of them.

Okay.

So this is what the rumors are. She was at his album listing party. They were photographed, hugging each other goodbye at Sunset Tower. Then another weekend, there was a four-hour dinner. At one point, John to her during their meal. Boom. Oh, my gosh. They left that meal separately, but apparently pulled over a few minutes later so that Kieran could hop into John's car, and she ended up getting dropped off at home. So, yeah, those are the rumors about her. Moving on to your favorite celebrity, Kristin Cavalieri.

Oh, yeah. I love Kristen Cavalieri. Uncommon James.

Literally, we can't get enough. She revealed that he asked her out, but she didn't want to be another notch in his belt. But then, by the summer of 2022, there were numerous reports that they had been on a few dates, and they started following each other on Instagram, and she had alluded to going on dates with a high-profile mystery man, which could possibly be John. If I never heard another word about Kristen Cavalieri, I would be happy.

I don't care about her at all. Is he Kristen Cavalieri? Like, on the road or already a billionaire? With Uncommon James?

Yeah.

I think so. Anyway, that's...

That is staggering to me.

It's like, that is very intriguing to me. Right. But yeah, you know, I think that he probably saw a dollar sign Like, Kristen Cavalieri, beautiful girl. It's just funny that he's like, so high-brow, and then he's also chasing Kristen Cavalieri. Right.

Exactly. Whose claim to Fame is tail.

Yeah.

I think John has tried to do a lot of reputation work. He's really kept a low profile dating-wise. Right. And he said, I've inherited a younger man's reputation. You can even break bad boy into good bad boy and bad bad boy. I somehow managed to become a bad version of a bad boy.

I don't even get that quote.

I think the only thing that makes sense, the only part that makes sense is that he says, I somehow managed to become a bad version of a bad boy. It wasn't like he was just this lovable bad boy. He was like, actually a bad version of a bad boy.

Well, I think that, yeah, you have mega celebrities who are emotionally deeply scarred by their experiences with you. You also give a completely unhinged interview in Playboy. And it's just like, I don't know how I inherited this reputation. He talks about... Can you imagine also... Can we just say What? I'll get this really quick? What? Isn't it funny how there are no... There's no female equivalent of like, all these men have dated this one celebrity, this one female, and they have all been rigged over colds.

Linda Thompson, the close we got. And she is just as sweet as can be.

Right, right. I mean, it's just interesting that there's truly no female equivalent in the celebrity world who a lot of A-listers have dated and have written in their memoirs how scarred they are by this woman, who've written songs about the wreckage. It's just funny how... Yeah, it's just something to note.

Oh, yeah. So he seems to have some sense of self-awareness, or at least he's being more open about being self-aware, whatever. He's parading around like he has some self-awareness. In 2017, he talked about one of the songs that he can't play live. It's called Never on the Day You Leave because it makes him so emotional. He said, There's a line in there that's so brutal because it's so true. He said, The line is, She'll fight for you like hell, then force herself to some other man. That's what women do. They show up 100%. There's a time they are 100% with everything. And then at some point, for whatever reason, not making a judgment, you or someone else says, nah. And what they force themselves to do to get over you is so transformative for good and bad that you will never see that whole person again.

Sorry, I'm so confused by this quote. These quotes literally make no sense to me. They're transformed by their healing journeys to get over it? Yes.

I think the meat of it is his view of women in relationships. She'll fight for you like hell. Then if you break up, she'll force herself till some other man. And that's what women do. They show up 100 %. And what they force themselves to do, to get over you, is so transformative for good and bad that you will never see that person whole again. Or you will never see that a whole person again. Okay.

I don't know. Thank you so much for breaking this shit down. I'm trying. I'm doing so. So what he's saying is that...

He's smarter than us, Lauren. He's fucking smarter than us. Wake up.

So, that's true. So what he's saying is the person who, he met who not been through the trail of tears that he was about to bring them on, he will never get that naive, sweet person back. He'll never see them all again. They will remain changed. They will... Yeah. And that is absolutely the case. And I think that's what Taylor Swift is talking about when she says, You stole my girlhood, and it was mine first. It was mine first. She misses who she used to be, too.

Right. Before... He's the type of guy who makes you jaded.

Yeah, completely. And then it's just like, I just... You know, when When we first met, you were so pure. If you could have only seen how sweet and you're full of life and light she was when I first met her at 19.

19. We're getting towards the end. So you can, the nausea will soon subside.

Okay. It's going to fall off from Zofran.

So, a little note about his dumois presence. You know, he's been given the name Safe Sex due to receiving so many similar reports of how he handles fan hookups, ensuring his zero %.

Oh, how does he handle it?

I don't actually know, but he just He really ensures that there's zero chance of a John Mayer love child.

Come on. Everyone's getting vasectomies these days. Like, does he not have a vasectomy?

I mean, he probably does. That's shocking to me. I mean, he probably does, and probably has frozen stuff. So, in 2022, he goes on Call Her Daddy, and he gives a pretty big interview. Okay. And he says, Dating is no longer a codified activity for me. It doesn't exist. It's not patterned anymore. I don't really date. I don't think I have to, to be honest. I quit drinking six years ago, so I don't have the liquid courage. I just have dry courage. So I think that's him saying, Yeah, whatever. He's trying to say he's no longer such a bad boy. He's talking to Alex Cooper on Call Her Daddy, and he says, Look, the elephant in the room is that I'm on a show that caters to women. Talking about that specific interview. And I have a couple of nameplates on me, like Lothario and Womanizer. And I think that is what it is. But I think people would be surprised to know that it was less me going like, you know that meme of the guy with his hand, rubbing his hands behind the tree. Do you know what I'm talking about?

No, I don't.

Never mind. Because maybe this column makes sense.

No, no. Just explain it because I'm super interested in what he's trying to say.

There's a meme of a guy behind a tree who's going like this.

Okay, so like plotting?

Yeah, plotting. And so he says, But I think people will be surprised to know it was less me, the meme of the guy behind the tree.

Like rubbing his hands together, plotting. Right.

And more like this, looking around in disbelief. Me? Me? Who me? Which is I'm just like, Oh, my gosh, really? And I'm like, Oh, I was always so surprised that women were into me. Yeah. Right. Like he was actually just insecure or whatever.

I just wanted to make them spinach omelets. Right. Sorry. Yeah.

Is that crazy? Something interesting that I learned in a little bit of my deeper research, his dad was 19 years older than his mom.

Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. You can read between the lines there if you would like to, or you can just not pass judgment.

Our listeners will definitely be reading between the lines, Chandler. Right. If you're the type of person who doesn't want to pass judgment, please, for the love of God, find a different podcast. It's just not the place for you.

It's not the place. It's literally not the place. Go back to Super Soul. So this is a comment from a user named Badassdassbitch13 on Reddit saying, I think everyone needs to give John a break, to be honest. John isn't the same person as he was back then. Unlike many men in Hollywood, he really hasn't continued a pattern of mistreating women. His last public relationship was long term and over 10 years ago. He's very much stepped back from the public eye and doesn't have public dating life. He also struggles a lot with mental health and actually seems to be a decent person who regrets his past. And he's not performative or showy about his regrets. He really doesn't use publicity or marketing tactics, just likes to make and perform music. So honestly, people just need to enjoy Dear John and not give the guy grief for something that happened 20 years ago. I'm going to be very disappointed in this fandom if they fully attack the guy.

I don't know what that means. Well, first of all, as someone who is 33, was born just a mere six months after Taylor. Six months I cling to, though, in my whenever I compare my achievements to hers. I have six months to catch up. Yeah. But I'm sorry, this was not 20 years ago. This was 14 years ago. A lot sooner than that.

I'm just not going to give him a break. I do think he's probably changed. I don't think he's the same person that he was. But I'm like, I still think he's gross to me. And yeah, he's still just not a... He's not someone that I would ever recommend as a good person.

He actually sounds like he's exactly the same if he's dating a 22-year-old, okay? How old is he now? Like, 50-something?

He's a little, I don't know. 48, maybe. You know, it's also just grosses me out the friendship he has with Andy Cohen.

I don't think Andy Cohen cares about women. Right.

I know. Hot take.

That tracks for me. Let's see, how old is John Mayer? 46. Okay. Well, you know what? It's whatever. It's not 30 years.

I'm going to play this quote where John recently talked about how he would like to get married.

Oh, stop.

Yeah. Because I think that's interesting. So I'm going to play some quotes from the Call Her Daddy interview that we can discuss.

Every relationship I've ever been in was devoted to the idea that this could go the distance. My entire life, today included, if you told me that I could have a great two months with someone, but it would end on the first day of the third month, I would not be interested. I have always sought potential for long term relationship. I know what my mistakes were looking back.

Can you pause it? I'm sorry. This is the same guy who gave the quote when he was like, I want to make her eggs and have her be obsessed with me, but I don't want her to catch feelings because I... Like too much feelings because I don't want anything long term. What is he talking about?

It's going to be a problem. I know. I...

This is misinformation.

To be honest, I think the interview is annoying to me because I just feel like Alex Cooper is just like pals with him.

We have to put ourselves in her shoes. If we got John Mayer on this podcast, we...

We would cross-examine the shit out of him.

We would be striking a very different tone. We feel like, Can we play one of the worst songs we've ever heard?

Dear John. Dear John. Dear John, scrub all of our Taylor Swift content. Do you want me to continue playing this? Yeah, please play.

Where of what those things are and how you can apply that to the next relationship. I don't see a problem with any past relationships ending badly.

It's just so delusional. It I'm just own up to it. Yeah, he has the excuse to be like, I was a lot younger. I was in my 20s, two decades ago. I did some things I regret. I know. It's just like, that is literally spinning fantasy and fiction. And he's trying to play into the female audience and trying to get them to fall in love with him to say that he always was after long term. That is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard.

I just I think, too, if he actually had changed and had evolved into this really emotionally intelligent guy who learned from his past, I honestly think we would see him in a relationship with somebody. Yeah, absolutely. It was healthy and stable.

If he actually really wanted that. I mean, he still has his pick, I'm sure. Right. Oh, of course.

So this is him talking about what he believes a solid relationship is. Is there anything that you have looked for of something, of a theme of what you want to work on within yourself moving forward?

That's a hot question. I don't know yet because I haven't gotten... I never really got to the part of relationship that was the smooth sailing part.

And whose fault is that?

I have a feeling when I do, I'm going to have a lot to work on, but I'll be excited to work on it because it won't be that incredibly fundamental stuff of How do we stay together? I'm always supremely impressed by couples that I know who are having a hard time but haven't even considered breaking up. That's hot. That, to me, is the hottest. Someone complains about their girlfriend or their wife, and you start to allude to them wanting to go somewhere else. I'm like, What are you talking about? No, I'm not going anywhere else. We're just having a hard time.

I love that.

And I have a feeling that- He's going to love that.

I'm going to be ready to talk to. If John Mairer was here, my response would be like- A little bit of intellectual- Hold on, wait.

Listen to this part.

Control issues. Only on an intellectual side. I'm trying to be a little more heart overhead, but I can be a little heady.

Okay. There's just so much to unpack. But if you're 46 years old and you've never been to the smooth sailing portion of the relationship, the problem is the person in the mirror. Are you kidding me?

Literally. I know. I know.

So he's just drama, drama, drama, drama, drama He has had his pick of women.

And so he is just never going to be satisfied. And I think that's why he can't find a stable piece of relationship. I don't think the women have not been satisfied with him. Oh, he's completely delusional. I think he can never be satisfied with any partner. Yeah. Completely delusional. And it's just like, it's so annoying.

He's intellectually controlling. He sounds so fucking exhausting to be in a relationship with. I need to go to sleep after this episode.

I know. I'm exhausted myself. I'm going to leave you with one final quote. You know, because John, John wants to get married. Contrary to popular belief. This is not on the Call Her Daddy podcast. This is on another recent podcast.

Okay. He's really doing the podcast circuit. John, come on pop apologist.

John, if you're listening, we'd love to have you on. We love your music. We love your Body's Wonderland.

I tell you, I've never told anyone this. People don't think I want to be married. I absolutely want to be married. I know that, yeah. You know the secret, which is that I'm actually fairly well adjusted, and I so badly want to get married, if only for my wife to just know in her- Sorry, I have to deposit.

I don't think any man has ever said, I so badly want to get married.

He's literally lying. He's lying. He's so delusional. Like, one of the two. Probably both.

I so badly want to get married. I so badly. Okay, John Maher. Okay.

Really?

Yeah. There's just nobody out there who will marry John Mayer.

I'm sure John Mayer wants to be married to someone and in a rut and you need to spice it up and wanting to do the hard work of monogamy. He wants to be taken to kids to soccer. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, please.

Okay, we might have to listen to the first part again.

I can tell you, I've never told anyone this. I want... People don't think I want to be married. I absolutely want to be married. I know that, yeah. You know the secret, which is that I'm actually fairly well adjusted, and I so badly want to get married. If only for my wife to just know in her heart, John will know what to do. I just think that level of being relied on is the hottest thing in the world to me. It's like, if my husband was here, he would know what to do. Call John. Call my husband. I just think, and by the way, this is- That means you're a caretaker at heart.

You're a caretaker.

You're a full grown up when this is your romantic fantasy. You're a fully fledged grown up.

Your kink is that you want somebody to be like, John's got a guy.

Reliance kink? Oh, my God. Dependability kink? Yes.

Once again, back to my original thesis, it is always all about John.

Right, exactly. It's such an astute point, Chandler. This actually has nothing to do with him wanting to be a stable force in someone's life. It's just he wants to be regarded as that. And I think that's why it's such a fantasy to him, because no one has probably ever felt that way about him, right?

Of course. He's chasing That. Yeah, to be regarded like that.

I think that's exactly what it is. Because he's never given someone that stability. He's never given someone that day in, day out, I can count on you. I will say that is how I feel about Kagan, by the way. Let's just leave it on a positive note. Don't you feel the same way about Ben?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Ben is your advisor. He knows what to do. You can really trust him.

I mean, it's funny you say really trust him. I want you to know that Ben likes John Mayer, and I have grappled with this. Oh. Because I'm just like, you just don't, honestly, just don't understand the female experience. And John Mayer, what he's done for women, how he set them back. What he's done to us? What he's done to us? No, it's absolutely the way I feel about Ben despite his affinity for John Mayer music.

Well, Chandler, thank you so much for another guilty verdict against John Mair as we rendered in the Court of Pop Apologies. Lock him away and throw away the key. We're done with you, John. We're done. Unless you're working on the show.

The witch hunt has concluded.

John, that was a stunning witch hunt. You guys, thank you so much for listening to this little pod. Thank you. We'll be back next week. We'll be back on Patreon on Friday. We're not going anywhere.

We're not going anywhere. We're here to stay, baby. We don't have stability issues unlike John here. This is so true. One thing.

You guys, can we just beg of you to do one thing, please?

One thing.

Please, everyone, go to our Apple podcast reviews and leave us a five-star review. And if you do that, if you write something, send us a screenshot, email it to popapologist@gmail. Com. We will send you a little surprise in the mail. A little surprise. We really need some reviews. We It's been a minute since we've gotten an influx. Frankly, we don't have enough compared to how many people listen to the show. It's out of balance.

It's out of balance, exactly.

It's out of balance, exactly. So please, you guys, go to Apple podcast, leave us a five-star review, take a screenshot.

If it's not five stars, I'm sorry, you're not getting a surprise.

There's no special surprise coming in the mail for you. Sorry. But if you like the special surprise, five stars, write a review, and then email us a screenshot popapologist@gmail. Com. It would really mean the world to us.

It would really mean the world to us. It would help us include your address in the email so we can send your special surprise to you. The reviews truly help us so much, and we would truly appreciate it.

Bye.

That's all for now, folks.

Don't forget, give us a five-star review. Hit us up on Instagram @popapologist, and we will see you next week, live every Wednesday.

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