Well, well, well. Thank you for joining me today. Everyone, it has been just a whirlwind of a week as we have all been consumed, swept up in this great mystery that's washed over all of us, which is where the fuck is Kate Middleton? So as you probably all know, I have taken to Instagram and TikTok and created, right now, it is a 12-part series on the whereabouts of Kate Middleton and the mystery of her disappearance. I, like everyone, just really assumed everything was fine up until a few days ago. I remember when they released the fake photo of her, which I didn't know was fake, by the way. So they released a photo of her. It's her with her kids. I don't really think anything of it. I'm honestly not good at paying that close of attention to visual details. So I didn't notice much. I just saw the photo, whatever. They said William took it. I figured she was Well, cut to a couple hours later and slow drip in my feed of all of the Photoshop gaffs. And then when AP issued the kill notice to retract the photo, basically saying this photo is fake, alarm bells really went off in my head because I was like, Okay, basically these journalistic institutions, they're saying that the palace is lying.

And we have not seen Kate since Christmas. Yes, there's that really fuzzy photo of her in the car with her mom in Winsor. But I guess I honestly just don't trust that photo. It doesn't look like her to me. Something is just so off. So when I realized that virtually everyone, not just conspiracy quacks, but virtually everyone agreed that Kensington Palace created a fake photo and sent it out, I realized that something was seriously off with Kate Middleton and her whereabouts. And I needed to uncover this mystery. So right now, everyone on TikTok and on Instagram, I have a 12-part series. It's twelve parts right now on where the fuck is Kate Middleton. So I urge you to check out that Instagram and TikTok series. Share it if you want to support the pod. I would love it. And I know this is going to be so frustrating. Recording, but I can't talk about it more on this recording. And the reason for that is very simple. Chandler is not with us right now. She is in Cabo. Someone's like, We need a wellness check on Chandler. Never mind, Kate, where the F is Chandler during all of this, during Lauren's wild tear on Instagram.

Well, Chandler is sunning in Cabo with 2G, basically no cellular service. I don't think she has any idea what I've been up to. So she's going to have a fun moment when her phone refreshes. She's back in Los Estados Unidos. Anyway, I want to get into this with Chandler on Friday's episode. So I really want to have a full discussion with Chandler, discuss the timelines. I mean, I have more that I have not discussed on Instagram because I think there's stuff that's super sensitive about Kate Middleton and about Prince William. And I'm just not comfortable necessarily talking about it with a front-facing camera on social media. So on Friday, Chandler and I are going to drop a Where the Fuck is Kate Middleton episode where we get into all of these details. And I'm super excited for that. That's going to drop on Friday. And it is going to be our Patreon episode, but it is going to be available to everyone. And just a disclaimer to the Patreones, we'll make it up to you. We'll give you your own exclusive content at some point this month that makes up for that. But when there's these moments when everyone is captivated by something, as a podcast, we just have to try to share our thoughts and our hot takes and really the gospel and message of pop apologist with as many as we can.

So while we're not going to talk about where the F Kate Middleton is on this episode, you have to wait a couple of days for the full chat with me and Chandler. I'm recording this right now on Tuesday, but I'm flying to in New York tomorrow, so I'm going to record that with Chandler in person at her apartment. I'm really excited for that. But in the meantime, we have a very good episode for you. So I'm really excited about this episode. It is a deep dive and exploration of Anne Hathaway. Now, I honestly did not expect to be so riveted by this story. When Chandler first was like, I think we should do a deep dive on why people hate Anne Hathaway, I was just like, Egh, boring. But when I was reading through the research, I I'm now myself completely consumed. You're going to be shocked when you hear who Anne Hathaway dated, okay? Let's just say the FBI is involved. It is a crazy story. Also, I think we do a good job of distilling why she's so off-putting and if this is a true character flaw or if it's just something where maybe everyone's a little sexist, maybe everyone's a little shallow, or all three.

So if you want to get to the heart of the modern question of why are people so So put off and polarized by the brunette Raven hair beauty, Anne Hathaway, I urge you to keep listening to this episode. You will not be disappointed. The couple met in New York at a gala where they immediately connected. Anne said, It was love at first sight. My boyfriend is incredible in a lot of ways. Their relationship ended dramatically when he was arrested on charges of defrauding investors out of millions of dollars in a scheme in which he posed as the Vatican's Chief Financial Officer. So it was reported that the FBI confiscated Anne's private journals from her time with him.

Not her journals.

Well, well, well, Chandler, the great audience, the good people listening to pop apologist, welcome back to the show.

I'm here. I am not going to lie. I'm so tired, and I don't frankly really want to be here, but I'm here, and I'm excited because there are good topics to get into today. I'm just a little tired.

Okay, well, Chanda, I'm here to perk you right up because we have a lot of work to do together on this podcast. Perk me up. And with our audience today, we're doing a different little deep dive, different little approach to the episode. Okay? So a lot of times our deep dives, they center around the great American romances of red-blooded Americans like JFK and Karen Bacet. Yeah, yeah. They focus on the love life of Gwyneth Paltrow.

I mean, important topics, hard-hitting journalism.

I mean, where CNN is falling short, we're picking up the slack.

Exactly. In this day and age, where mainstream media, MSM, as it's known, really fails us. Yeah, we're picking up the slack, as you said.

Chandler, you're so absolutely correct. Where mainstream media is failing us when it comes to telling the truth.

Telling the truth. Okay.

Telling the truth, number one.

Holding power to account. I won't even tell you what mainstream media and outlet doesn't do that anymore.

Dad could really get on here and call all the mainstream outlets to task Chandler for the grave injustices.

I mean, he would love nothing more.

He would love nothing more. But here we are, doing our good service. And today, instead of doing a exploration of someone's love life or a love affair, we're going to do a little bit more of a psychological evaluation, okay?

Oh, great.

It's a little bit more of a psychological evaluation of the celebrity at large, and then also the American public, because this celebrity requires a lot of consternation, a lot of ire, a lot of weeping and whaling and nashing of teeth. And so we need to examine why does a celebrity provoke this reaction on us? Is it justified? Is it warranted? Does it sound more about us than them? And I won't beleagre this any further, okay? Belabor? Belieger. Okay. Excuse me. I won't beleagre this any further. Thank you, Chandler. Today, we are here to discuss one Anne Hathaway. Because here's the thing about Anne Hathaway. I am, some would say the mature age of 33, some would say the tender age of 33. Whichever, whichever perspective you have. Sure. At 33, I have arrived at a place in my life where it's unclear to me why Anne Hathaway annoys me, but she does.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, maybe that says more about you than it does about Anne Hathaway.

But here's the thing, Chandler. No man is an island, and certainly not me in this quandary, because so many people feel the same way. I'm not the first person to be bugged by Anne Hathaway.

I mean, can we just start? Can I just say what comes to mind when I think about being bugged at Anne Hathaway? The first thing that comes to mind, the The first thing that comes to mind is, stay right there. I will come to you. We're going to be very calm. We're going to be very calm. Stay right there. Yeah.

Here's the thing. Chandler is describing everyone a recent viral TikToker video. If you did not see it, where Anne Hathaway put up her palm to everyone in front of her, to people just on the street wanting her to sign autographs, wanting to take her photo, and just was telling them to calm down. She said, Calma, calma, calma.

Is that what she was really saying?

Yes, calm. What did you think she was saying?

Well, I know. I thought you were saying calma.

Like with an A at the end. Calma, calma? I think it's like an Italian.

Oh, I didn't realize she was in Italy.

She's in Italy, so she's speaking Allian. I'm sorry.

I'm like, That's also another word you're messing up today.

Chandler doesn't speak any foreign languages, so she forgets that everyone doesn't just speak English.

Neither do you. Neither do you.

Which is embarrassing, given No, never mind. Let's not get into that. Kalma, kalma, kalma, kalma. Anyway.

I will come to you.

It was a gaffe, I think, from a lot of people's perspectives because she seemed very patronizing. She said, I can't sign for everyone, but I I want you to have something. So she'll let people take a photo.

I mean, I think as well, there was something about it where she thought she was Cleopatra or something. I am Jesus Christ. You are not... You can touch my rope.

There was certainly, I think, an energy to her being like Beyoncé or she's the biggest star in the world.

I mean, and we don't have to get too deep on this, but I get it. It's a dangerous world out there for celebrities. But still, that was just... Yeah. She's unlikable.

Here's the thing with Anne Hathaway, is that she, in certain situations, has been deeply unlikable. Deeply. And charitable watchers or viewers or listeners might have a different take. And I'm going to get into those opinions and points of view, because this is not a biased report. But I think it's important to examine this woman, Anne Hathaway.

Right. Okay, let's examine her. Yeah, I'm excited. I think she's a celebrity who I used to know a lot about, or not know a lot about, but I used to see a lot more. And then she slid under the radar, and then she's had a resurgence.

She has had a renaissance, but I almost feel like her renaissance has very quickly turned into another fall from grace. Because if you remember, six months ago, people were just, could not shut up about how hot and halfway was. Right, right.

Her fashion. Yeah.

Just looking so good. And then there's been a few gaps where she's back to, I think, being ridiculed. Anyway, we're not here to ridicule or make fun of or tease. We're here to examine the culture, okay? Yeah. Provide a report. This is scholarship. This is not gossip. No. This is truly academic. Yeah. So let's proceed. So Chandler and everyone listening on November 12th, 1982, in New York, a child was born. And that is- Oh.

She's from New York City. That also explains a lot.

Well, she was born in New York, but she didn't move to New Jersey when she was six. Okay. So unfortunately. She's fortunate for her flexing at dinner parties, because she always has to have that asterisk. She's not fully just from New York.

New Jersey is lovely. New Jersey is very green.

It's very green, but it's not being from Manhattan.

It's true. It's true. Please proceed.

Okay. And as a gal from Laguna, Nagal, San Clini, California, I'm not saying that with a trace of my own pomp and circumstance. Let me just say that. Okay. So Anne Jacqueline Hathaway Chandler was a child born into the world in New York on November 12th, 1982. She's the middle child, so she has two brothers on each side. Her dad, Jerome, is an attorney. So she's a fellow daughter of an officer of the court. We probably would have a lot in common with her.

So much in common. We should reach out. See if she wants to come on the podcast and talk about it.

Absolutely. I should see if her dad needs to offer financing. She could be a.

We're paying for finance for her father, for Jerome.

Exactly. I need to reach out to Anne. Anyway, she could be a lead gen source It's for me.

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Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean? Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, Hey, we're the Bravo Bros. Two guys to talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Bravo Bros. No. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged.

This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here.

If we just say, Oh, we're two dudes to talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo Bros. Good job. Kate is her mother, and this is where the Venn diagram between Anne and Gwyneth Paltrow, really, it starts... The middle part gets bigger. They are both the daughters of actresses. I don't know if you know this, but Kate starred as Fontine in Les Mis on Broadway.

Oh, I thought you were saying Anne did.

No, no. Okay. Well, Anne Hathaway will later Chandler's star in Les Mis. Not sure where you've been.

No, I know. I was like, You're getting your facts mixed up. No, no, no. Well, her mom was a Broadway star.

Mm-hmm. Okay. So Kay played the role of Fonteyn on the first national tour of Les Mis when Anne was eight, which sparked Anne's love for the theater, for drama, Chandler, for telling stories. Anne attended public school, where she played soccer and was involved involved in community class, community drama programs. Relatable queen. Relatable queen. But apparently, she showed a lot of promise as a young actress. She studied at the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in 1993 and became the first teenager admitted to the Barrow Group Theater Company's Acting Program. I had no idea. They let teenagers into the Barrow Group Theater Company's Acting program.

Oh, really? Are you familiar with this group?

No, I'm not.

But apparently, this is very prestigious. I was like, wow. You never cease to amaze me. Your knowledge knows no bounds.

I had never heard about it until today. So Anne began working as a professional actress, Chandler, on a short-lived Fox series called Get Real, but it was canceled after its first season.

Happens.

And then this is where Chandler Mary, you, me, and Anne have way more to talk about than being daughters of attorneys. Okay. Her first real film role, I don't know if you remember this, but it was a small movie called The Other Side of Heaven. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Which was about a Roman missionaries experience in Tonga.

Oh, my gosh.

This movie, everybody, I mean, were you...

Maybe you were already done with Religion by the time that this movie was out. But this movie meant a lot to me in the time.

Did it. Do you remember having seen her in this? Yes. Oh, you do.

Let me back up, everybody. On Sundays, we only were allowed to watch church movies. We weren't allowed to watch secular movies of any sort or secular TV. And so on Sundays, when you just want to relax, do nothing, lay on the couch and eat a burrito, I had to watch a church movie. So a lot of times I would watch The Other Side of Heaven.

You would bust out The Other Side of Heaven.

Because I think it was a Disney movie. It was produced by the Disney Company or something. So it did feel a little secular.

It wasn't like a full Book of Morwen cartoon. Yeah, I was like, That was another one we were allowed to watch on Sundays.

It was heavier on the adventure, lighter on hard-hitting gospel, like Morwen theology. But it was about a missionary.

So Anne Chandler did star in one of your favorite movies of all time, and something that brought you blessed relief on Sabbath of your.

I mean, this movie should have gotten an Oscar.

It should have gone further. It had on you. Best picture, no doubt.

I don't know. I actually don't want to watch it now as an adult because I'm sure that I would chatter at some of the stuff. But I loved it growing up. I loved it. I thought it was great.

Well, you have Anne to think for... What? You want to keep talking about that? Sorry, one more thing.

I think compared to a lot of the... It had higher production value than a lot of the church films that I was watching. And that's why I really liked it. That's all. Okay, I'm done.

Instead of talking about Anne Hathaway and why people like her, why they don't, drama she was involved in, let's get into other stuff you did on Sundays when you had a lot of rules.

The last thing I'm going to say is basically Anne plays this missionary's going on his mission to I want to say, American Samoa. Oh my gosh, we're still talking about this. And she plays his betrothed at home. So she has a very short role. Small role, I would say. That's it. I'm done.

I'm really done this time. Okay. I'm not even making a joke about it because we need to proceed. Everyone, it was on her way to go star in this film.

The other side of heaven?

On the way to New Zealand, okay, to star in this film. She had a 26-hour layover in Los Angeles, Chandler. And this is where she She auditioned for a little movie called The Princess of Tribeca, okay?

Okay.

And this would be her breakout role in The Princess Diaries. That was the original name, The Princess of Tribeca. Oh, wow. Okay. There, she met Director Gary Marshall, and the two hit it off immediately. At some point during the audition, Hathaway recalled, I got really nervous and fell out of my chair, and I think that's what most impressed him.

I mean, have you ever gotten I'm so nervous that you fell out of a chair?

It's something you would read about in Harry Potter. It's something that doesn't actually happen, but writers use it as little...

The physics alone of it are hard to imagine, but that's amazing.

That's actually a very astute point. How do you literally fall out of your chair? Just out of nervousness. Anyway. Something...

Girl needs a beta blocker.

To consider. Or something stronger. Okay, so clearly, the director was impressed by Anne not being able to stay seated because she got role of Mia Thermopolis in the Princess Diaries, and this really was her breakout role. She proceeded to do after that family-friendly films like The Princess Diaries 2 and Ella Enchanted. Okay.

Another hit.

Before she started moving on to more adult roles in 2005. Okay? Okay. One thing to note, she's a reverse Emma Watson, where she started studying English at Vassar, but basically left school in order to pursue acting. And she said has no regrets, which I actually really respect.

Yeah, totally.

More people need to blow the whistle on how worthless bachelor degrees are. So in 2005, Chandler and starred in a movie I'm sure you have not seen, I've not seen to this day, Brokeback Mountain. Have you seen Brokeback Mountain?

Of course I've seen Brokeback Mountain. Oh, you have? You're such a square. I literally... Of course I've seen. I mean, I watched it on our dear friend Lee's couch. Yeah, back in Utah, in Provo. Okay, so It's so good.

I haven't seen it. Obviously, it was so forbidden. And in 2005, I was only 15. And so anyway, I never You were doing a lot of forbidden things at 15, so I don't buy that for one second. That's true. I guess I just wasn't interested. And in 2006, Chandler, bringing it back to Anne, her career, she starred in The Devil Wears Prada as Andy Sacks. Yes. Okay. So I'm not sure if you know this, but Anne really had to fight for the role of Andy Sacks. Really? Okay. So this is a quote. She says, I'll give you some tea. I was the ninth choice for The Devil Wears Prada, but I got it. I hung in there and I never gave up. I wonder who was in front of her. So I'll tell you. So the director, David Frankl, said, Prior to casting Hathaway, the studio initially wanted to cast a well-known actress, Burn, to play the part. Rachel McAdams turned it down three times.

Wow. She would have been great.

He says, The studio was very determined to have Rachel McAdams star in that movie, and she was very determined not to do it. Kind of like an interesting fact about Rachel McAdams. Yeah. And this led me down a rabbit hole, and I spent like an hour basically researching Rachel McAdams in her life. I would love to do a Rachel McAdams deep dive. I think that would be fun.

Yeah, absolutely.

I do think she's very Erica Jane adjacent in that she's very enigmatic. She's very filled with riddles. She doesn't seem wrapped in cash. But anyway, she was serious to me.

Yeah, those two, they were cut from the same cloth. For sure.

No. Actually, I think what's interesting with Rachel McAdams, and this is a little bit of a tangent, but Rachel McAdams had this huge breakout success, and then basically was like, Oh, no, this is way too much for me. And left acting for two years, which is a long time in the prime of your career. She moved home to Toronto, took no projects, and basically was like, I'm not into this at all.

Interesting. Yeah, no, we should definitely do a deep dive. I think every single movie that I've seen Rachel McAdams in, I have loved her in. I think she's like an all-star. Even the time Traveler's Wife that was just not that great of a movie, she's still the best part of it.

I think also, Rachel McAdams is one of the prettiest people that's ever lived. There's not a flaw on that face.

There's not a flaw. Stunning. And her freckle. Yeah, she's so cute. She's perfect. Yeah. Let's stick to Anne.

But I guess we have to keep talking about Anne Hathaway, so we'll save that for Another day, everyone. Other actors that they wanted were Kirstin Dunst, Scarlett Johansson, Natalie Portman, and Kate Hudson.

I guess all of those girls were like... I knew MP was going to be on there.

Of course.

I fucking knew it. Yeah.

By the way, Kirsten Dunst recently gave a quote where she said she would love to do... I don't know if you saw this, but she said she would love to do another Marvel movie because, quote, They pay a lot of money, and she has kids and supports her mom.

Oh, wow. She's also Yeah, she's married to the guy from Friday Night Lights and Breaking Bad.

Kirsten Dunst? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, interesting.

Could be another deep dive. Yeah. No, and Marvel movies are cash cows.

Also, you know what else I want to deep dive is Kate Bosworth. And she's a lot of love life. She's a lot of passion. Sure.

The Justin Long relationship.

The Justin Long relationship. Her 10 karat diamond ring.

I think we're demonstrating some of the frustration with Anne Hathaway by just literally talking about all the other celebrities we want to deep drives on.

Okay, let's get back to Anne. Okay, so this is what Anne said about waiting for the role as all the other A-list actresses in front of her turned it down. She said, I just knew that it was the place to be, so I very patiently waited until it was my turn and I got the call. It was the easiest yes in the world. Meryl Streep-Chandler had a very large part in helping Anne secure the role. So the director said, Meryl was eager to make the movie, and she said, Let's meet with her. Broke Up Mountain was about to come out, and Annie had a wonderful small role in that. Meryl watched that scene from that movie. She met with her and called up Tom Rothman at Fox and said, Yeah, this girl's great. I think we'll work well together.

And she had the part. Great. Amazing.

Okay, and moving on from From those films, though, and then the following year, in 2007, she had a starring role in Judd Aptow's Comedy, Knocked Up. She was given the starring role, but then she turned it down because she was reportedly uncomfortable with the film's explicit birthing scene. She said, My issue with it was that having not experienced motherhood myself, I didn't know how I was going to feel on the other side about giving birth.

Okay.

I mean, don't you just act? You know what I mean? You have to have done everything that you portray. Do you have to be the Princess of Genovia, okay? To play a middle schooler? Anyway. Okay, in 2008, she... I don't know. A quick little bio. She is in Get Smart, Rachel Getting Married, and then Bride Wars in 2009. Another hit. Valentine's Day, Alice Wonderland, Love and Other Drugs, 2010. In 2011, Rio, One Day. And then 2012, she was in The Dark Knight Rises and Le Miserab. Okay?

Le Miserab.

Yes. And sorry, Sorry for the long list, everyone, but I feel like it's important to explain her bio, explain her achievements. Yeah. But also to get to this point where she plays Fontine in Les Misérables.

She actually cuts all of her hair in that scene.

I got to watch that tonight. Did you know that?

Yeah.

I forgot about that.

You should tell Keke in that, too.

Thank you for reminding me.

Yeah.

I feel like he'd love it. Okay. So fun fact, also, she was originally cast as the lead in the Silver Linings playbook. Oh. Okay. Wow. I know. What could have been? Was that interesting? But there were scheduling conflicts, and so she had to pass on it, and it went to Jennifer Lawrence. So this actually brings me to an important point, which is that I think Jennifer really portrays and embodies all the attributes that make an actress likable. Sure, sure. And she represents an important foil when we're examining what makes Anne Hathaway unlikable.

It's very true, Dr. Lauren.

Thank you. She does not take herself that seriously. She trips.

She trips.

She's girls, girls. She's very self-deprecating. Whereas Anne Hathaway falls on the blade of her own sincerity. And she takes herself, capital S, serious. And I feel like that's what people find to be a bit odious.

Right. Odious is the word. Yeah.

And one of the turning points, Chandler, was for, I think Anne, in the court of public opinion, was her winning the Oscar for Les Mis. But before we get there, I think that we should discuss her personal life, okay? Because there's more drama to Anne Hathaway's dating life than- Really? Certainly yours or mine.

Yeah, for sure. Okay.

More than yours. Let's just say the feds are involved, okay? Because Anne had dalliances with Topher Grace and Hugh Dancy, but those relationships really pale in comparison to the drama that unfolded when she dated Raffaello Fulieri, okay? Okay.

And she dated it.

She dated it from 2004 till 2008. All right? The couple met in New York at a gala for the American Cancer Society, where they immediately connected. According to In Style, Anne said it was love at first sight, despite Raffaello showing up an hour late to their first date. This is what she had to say about him at the time. She said, My boyfriend is incredible in a lot of ways, but when it comes to his charity, one of the most untouted aphrodisiacts in the world is charity work. Seriously, you want a girl to be impressed? Vaccinate some kids. Build a house.

One of the most untouted aphrodisiacts.

Well, I just feel like on some level- David Foster.

That's why he does it for mom.

It's true. Isn't it low-key virtue signaling feeling how wealthy your boyfriend is. I'm actually so turned on by the fact that he can do philanthropy for small nations.

He has so much money, he gives it away. And that's really hot to me.

He can vaccinate entire demographics.

Ladies, why are you looking for someone with a good, steady job? Look at someone who's vaccinating kids.

Jenna, who has Ben built a house for?

That's my question. Nobody. Not one.

Not even one. Yeah, exactly. I need to discuss with Kagan later because I haven't seen him vaccinating anyone recently. So their relationship, Chandler, though, it hit the skids, and it ended dramatically when Fulieri was arrested on charges of defrauding investors out of millions of dollars. Side note, this guy was super, super, super loaded when he was dating in Hathaway. Okay. That, apparently, they were staying in a $37,000 a month apartment in New York. By the way, this was in 2004, 2008. Do you know how much money that is?

Oh my gosh, that's Okay.

So, yes, their relationship ended dramatically when he was arrested on charges of defrauding investors out of millions of dollars in a scheme in which he posed as the Vatican's Chief Financial Officer.

I just read the Da Vinci Code. That's pretty gripping.

It is pretty gripping, right? So it was reported that the FBI confiscated Anne's private journals from her time with him.

Not her journals.

Exactly.

It was her private thoughts about her private aphrodisiacs. The aphrodisiacs? I don't know if I'm saying it right.

Where are those of Anne's turn on, she was not charged with a crime, and he pleaded guilty in 2008 and was sentenced to four and a half years in prison. Wow. So here are a few more details on this scheme that I looked up because I was very interested. I want to look him up. I want to look him up. So in papers filed by the US attorney's office, he was accused of lying to investors by claiming to be the CFO of the Vatican and using swindled funds for a trip to the Dominican Republic over New Year's 2005, 2006 with his then-girlfriend, Anne Hathaway. According to the complaint, Fulieri also used the funds for his $37,000 a month rent, medical bills for himself and his then-girlfriend, as well as orthodontist bills for his father. So they dated for four years. They split. So This is what Anne said. She said, It's a situation where the rug was pulled out from under me all of a sudden. I mean, again.

Absolutely.

Her and Erica Jane. They might have something to discuss here. This is what she said on SNL. She said, I broke up with my boyfriend, and two weeks later, he was sent to prison for fraud. I mean, we've all been there, right?

That's funny.

It is funny. Although I will say a lot of naysayers online are like, So she really had no idea what he was doing? Okay. Right. So some people are skeptical, but According to, I guess the US government read her private journals, and she was consequently abdicated of any wrongdoing. An auction supporting the victims of Foliari's crimes was made up in part of a $10,500 sapphire necklace. He gave to Hathaway an 18 karat emerald and Pearl Cartier necklace, as well as an $8,300 topaz and diamond cuff bracelet. You know, Anne, maybe I would have looked the other way as well. Who knows? That's some good loot.

Yeah, I'm just Her turn on story is just getting less and less.

Like, less and less believable. I mean, when I was reading about these people's lifestyle or their lifestyle at the time, it was like writing on goal streams all across the world. Of course. Partying with Bill I mean, top, top, top. It leads. So yeah, pretty wild. But this is where Chandler jewelry really, I think, weaves a golden thread, pierces Anne's heart. Because later that year, she met her jewelry designer husband, then would be husband, Adam Schulman. So her romance with Schulman began in 2008, and they were married in 2012. So she said, I knew from the second I met him that he was the love of my life. I think he thought I was a little nuts, which I a bit, but I'm also nice, she recall telling a friend while attending the Palm Springs Film Festival. I was just very honest with him, she explained. I took my trust out for a ridiculous joyride with him. I told him, I need to believe that what happened to me was the exception and not the rule, and that people are good and you are a good person because I feel it. I think that's something you might need to tell yourself.

Not every guy is going to be lying to investors about being the CFO of the Vatican.

She just needed to believe. She needed to believe.

She needed to believe that was the exception, not the rule. She was so jaded. Absolutely. She said that she was right. He was the exception. And even so, though, it was scary. But she said, As the days were on, it kept getting better and better. I found that the love I found for him made me more trusting of everyone. And the more I started to see who I had become, the more I realized I had lost track of myself during those years. And I actually started to see who I had become. And that's when things got tricky and ugly. Having to forgive myself. She added, And he never hurt me. About Adam ostensibly. So they went on to, Welcome to Children Chandler in 2016 and 2019. Two boys named Jonathan and Jack.

Can I interject now here with my personal A little story.

Yeah, please.

Ben and I were walking on the street. Oh, yes. A couple of years ago, we see a man and a woman and their son who's riding a scooter in front of us. And the son goes up They're passing this bodega that's four or five blocks away from our house. And he points to the watermelon. And then the mom said, We can get some later, or something. And it was Anne Hathaway's voice. We turn and look. It's Anne Hathaway. Her voice It was very distinct, in my opinion. And it was her, Anne-Adam, and their son. I don't know which one it was, but it was crazy.

I hate this story because I got so embarrassed for you because she goes... Why? Because she was like, Comma, comma, comma. No, yeah. It was like, she was like, I I can't take a photo with everyone, but I will give you something.

And that's when she then spoke to her son so that I could, yeah, experience her being a mother. No, but it just seemed like a very casual Sunday morning stroll for them. Any body parts? It was crazy. No, of course not. No, it was just... And she lives on the Upper West Side, I think.

You know what's interesting about that, actually? I feel like it makes me roll my eyes even more at the Italy incident, because I feel like if you're Taylor Swift and there are people, no matter where you go, legions of fans will find and follow and bother you. Right, right. Then I feel like the comma, comma attitude is warranted.

Well, that's why the whole situation is a little bit odd, is that I'm like, I mean, it's Anne Hathaway. She's an A-lister. But it's not like, I mean, are people really rushing to get next to her?

Well, and that's clearly not. If you're walking behind her casually on the upper side, there aren't legions of fans. She's having to calma with her palma.

Calma?

No, I think that gives me pause on that thing. Also, especially because that incident happened at Fashion Week in Italy. It was like Milan Fashion Week. You know you're going to be interacting with fans. You're in full glam.

Like, really?

Then you're going to act so bothered and patronizing.

And it's like, it was just a very weird... I don't know. I feel bad criticizing her because of it, because I think if you're an anxious person or anything, it would be scary to have people be rushing towards you, or at least to feel like you're being clamored by photographers. But also, that's the whole reason that you're there. It's for that stepping out of the car moment.

A hundred %.

You know that that's happening.

It's so strange to act like,.

It was like she had... She had talked to her therapist about what type of protocol she should enact with photographers. She's like, I'm going to tell them that I can't take a photo, or that I can't sign with all of them, but that I will give them something.

I would love them to have something.

I'll tell them to have something. I will come to you. You do not come to me. I'll put my hands up in the calm, a calm, a fashion. Anyways.

Oh my gosh, you know what other quote she gave? She said that she sees her Fame as a tool of being able to do nice things for other people, like take pictures with them and do autogravs. Yeah. But then she quickly was like, Oh, I probably should have said that out loud.

Oh my gosh.

Anyway. Okay. But before we get to how she has turned in the court of public opinion, let's talk about her charity work really quickly, everyone. So this is going to be 30 seconds or less. I know everyone's about to hit the fast forward button. So it's going to be real quick. She works with many charities, including Nike Foundation, Against Child Marriage, Step Up Women's Network, Creative Coalition, St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital, The Human Rights Campaign, and The Girl Effect, to name a few. She's on the board of Lolypop Theater Network. She was named a UN Women Goodwill Ambassador. And also they- They handled those out like anything, I feel like. It's so true. I feel like we should apply. It would help our image. And also, collaborating with women in Hollywood to set up a Times Up initiative. Okay. Well, that part's it. Concluded, she's clearly not a monster. Yeah, of course.

I mean, but don't celebrities have to do charity work? Not that she is a bad person, but I just like, no celebrity's charity work really impresses you that much. Impresses you that much. Moves the needle for me. Yeah.

Well, I just think that once you get to a certain level and you have such a scale of influence, I know this is maybe crazy to say, but I almost think it's sociopathic to not be giving back and not be giving back. For sure. As opposed to a normal people who are just trying to work and figure out how to survive? Keep the lights on. Yeah. I think that also with those celebrities, it's not like charities are knocking down our door for how our quick appearance could change someone's life or could whatever.

Literally not one charity has reached out to us.

I feel like, yes, exactly. There's probably constant request to get back as well.

And it's like what your friends do. When you get to that level where you don't worry about money or your profession at all, essentially, it's just like, Okay, well, how else will I fill my time? I guess, yeah, I would like to volunteer.

Right. Charity is a luxury, Chandler. It's a luxury. It's a luxury. It's a luxury. It's a luxury. It's a luxury. I do it for the ultra-rich. It's a luxury. It's a luxury. I do it for the ultra-rich. For the ultra-rich.

For most celebrities, yeah.

You're blowing the whistle.

Most of the events that you're going to It's like, Oh, I want to be invited to that gala? Oh, I got to donate. No problem.

And then you get this line item on your Wikipedia about being a part of some board or trust or foundation. And then that gets read aloud on a podcast. On a podcast. Okay. Celebrated. Those are your just rewards, Anne, if you're listening. Okay, so her first crime against public opinion, Chandler, really happened in 2011. I don't know if you remember this, but this is when she hosted the Oscars with James Franco. Hmm.

I lightly, I lightly remember this.

And I think this sin, it really, not even sin, but it just gets to the core of Anne Hathaway's unlikability, which is that she's just not good at reading, I would say, how to deliver things. She's just not... She's a theater nerd. She's overly sincere, almost to the point where it seems fake and a Taylor Swift, whoa, there's a crowd here. You know? You heard her 15th year into being a pop star.

Clearly, she knows how to deliver things because she's an actor. I just don't know that she does her sincere. Just to tell you, Lauren, just to repeat what you just said. But I think when Anne Hathaway does sincere, it doesn't translate super well.

Yeah, exactly. It comes off, I think, a little bit as performative and cringe. Correct. And this is really what happened when she did the Oscar. So James Franco, his demeanor during hosting the Oscars was like... It was giving a little bit of TJ and Amy, and that's a little bit of a niche reference. But it was giving... He just seemed like he was too cool, didn't want to be there, got it. So uncomfortable, did not want to be doing it. And Anne was giving so over the top, so enthusiastic, so ingratiating, so cloying. It just did not...

They're an odd pair.

They are an odd pair, Chandler. And they were essentially asked to do it so they could appeal to a younger demographic.

Got it.

And despite the fact that Anne was in peak movie star mode that night, dancing, singing, changing outfits no less than 10 times. She was internationally and domestically panned and ridiculed for the gig.

I mean, it's a hard gig, too. It's a hard gig.

And she basically said in an interview about it, she said she's a theater kid. She said she was playing to the back of the room, essentially being really big to play to the audience. She wasn't playing to the screen, to people watching from home. And obviously, I mean, this is going to sound so basic, but watching someone act on a Broadway stage, the movements, the voice, the just stick your hands, everything is so big compared to on the screen where things are much more nuanced. That's her excuse, Chandler. Okay. Okay. So the next turning point, as we alluded to earlier in the episode, also happened at the Oscar. So it was two years later when she won for best actress for playing Fontine in Les Mis. So the key moment that a lot of people cringed out when she first gets her Oscar, instead of looking up, looking at everyone, saying thank you, she has this almost private moment with herself and the Oscar in front of everyone. She looks down at it and she goes, It came true. It's just a little cringe.

It came true. She's just a sincere girly.

She's not good at self-policing. She's not good at being self-aware. I think that also, not to be her defense attorney, but I feel like if you get famous quite young, have a lot of success, I think it would be easy to be out of touch.

Yeah, right. Of course. It's like it just reads Super Strong Theater Kid.

It reads Dork.

Yeah, totally. Like, total dork. Yeah.

Yeah. And she's just so deadly serious in her acceptance piece. Just like... Anyway. So this is what she said. This is a quote from Anne about it at the time. She told Harbors Bizarre UK, At times I wish I could tamp down my passion and just stay a little calmer. I get carried away by things so easily. I get caught up in them. I give everything sometimes without thinking. When thought might be a welcome addition to the circumstances, sometimes it winds up biting me in the behind, but I don't know how to be any other way. I feel like I have a lot to relate to with me and my spread journeys.

I was literally thinking of you. I was literally thinking of you.

This is what Howard Stern said at the time. Or actually, let me... Let's just play a little bit of the speech for people so that you can get a feel for it. Okay.

It came true. Thank you so much to the Academy for this and for nominating me with Helen Hunt, Jackie Weaver, Amy Adams, and Sally Field. I look up to you all so much, and it's just been such an honor. Thank you. There are so many people whose generosity and support is the reason that I'm standing here right now. I must thank Hugh Jackman.

I mean, it's just very breathless. It's very... I think it was... I think, honestly, that Oscar speech would have been a nothing burger, but combined with the moment of being like...

That it came true.

That it came true.

That's a moment where you just say that in your head.

Yeah. Save it for when you're off stage.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. From when the lights have been dimmed. This is what Howard Stern said at the time. He said, Let me sum up why people hate Anne Hathaway. First of all, she gets a speechwriter to write her speech. She's overly dramatic at these award shows. She's always out of breath. She's even acting like she's winning an award.

I mean, there are plenty of people who give very sincere, out of breath award speeches. I don't think that a crime. And that, to me, is not a turn off.

She just writes you the wrong way. And I think that to some people, she doesn't strike them as genuine. She strikes them as performative. Right. Okay, so this is her quote about the kindness she can do as being a celebrity when she sees other people.

Can I just say one thing really quick?

Please.

Anne Hathaway is the friend that when you are all singing along to a song, she's like trying to harmonize.

That is what she is. She's the friend who, when you're all singing to a song, do you remember harmonize? Like show that she has a good voice.

Yes, she's actually singing. Exactly. She's not trying to- She's not trying to- She's not- She's not actually singing. And it's not even like... She doesn't know any other way to be.

She doesn't know any other way, Chandler. How dare we try to dim her light. Right. So this is what Anne has to say about how the power of her celebrity can really be the warmth of the sun when it comes to meeting other people.

Oh, God. Tell you they love you or that they like you or that they've watched your movie 3,000 times or they want a selfie or they want a hug or they want a picture or they want a picture for their daughter. All they are saying is, thanks. That's all they're saying. It's not complicated. It's not bad. It's actually immensely flattering. It's beautiful. There's a very good chance you'll just leave the interaction and you can just focus on the next thing. There's a very good chance they might remember forever. Do you want this memory to be one that makes them feel badly about themselves, or do you want it to be one that makes them feel great? Because the reason you won the lottery is because they bought a ticket. So please be respectful of that. I just have this really light relationship with it now. I feel like my Fame is a tool to make other people feel good. What am I talking about? I'm not supposed to say something like that out loud.

Everything was great until the very last part. I mean, it's a little bit of an annoying conversation. It's one you have with your other celebrity friends. Right, right. Not in an interview, But then the last part, you're just like... I like her. I have more tenderness in my heart for her after this deep dive, or throughout this deep dive.

And I think, to be honest, that's where I'm coming from, too. I actually think she's just completely who she is. She's super sincere.

Exactly.

She's the actor on Succession, Jeremy Strong, who people just love to ridicule. He just takes himself capital less seriously. And he's very much an actor. And it rouse people wrong way because, you know, most people, they want other people to make them feel comfortable. They don't want to hear about Anne Hathaway's celebrity. They don't want to hear about all the great parts of her life and how she can just make people feel special and have a memory they'll remember forever. Like, you seeing her on the fucking streets of New York. Let me tell you, Chandler, not the first time you told that story on this podcast.

I know. I know it's not the first time. I'm remembering it forever. The reason she won the lottery is because I bought a ticket. I do like that expression.

You know for sure, that didn't come up with that one on the fly. No, for sure not. But I guess my point is, I think that people want a Jennifer Lawrence. They want someone who they feel like is like them.

Like bumbling.

Who watches Housewives, who trips, who is like their BFF. When Anne Hathaway, I think, doesn't play that game at all. She doesn't pretend to be super relatable.

She doesn't do the relatable thing. No. And she's a little awkward. And she's awkward.

And it wrinkles people. Yeah. Is wrinkles even a word?

I don't know. I don't know. Wrinkles? It bugs people. It totally bugs people.

And I think that's warranted. And I think Chandler, we could all do with a little appetite for not having everyone have to be your BFF as their brand.

The reason why we get these amazing films with her is because this is who she is. Sometimes you can't have your cake and eat it, too.

You absolutely cannot. So I guess now we are turning into Anne Apologist. But this is what Anne has to say about finding out about the haters and how it impacted her, Chandler.

Because she didn't know?

Well, at one point, she didn't know that there were so many and a half of the haters.

She took a bite of the apple.

Yes.

Yeah, I had gotten out of the habit of googling myself because that's just a bad idea to ever do that. And I was trying to come up with... My friends and I had an idea for Funny or Die, and we wanted to do something on celebrity pregnancy rumors. So we just googled pregnancy rumors, and the story came up. What was the story? The story, the title of it was Why Does Everybody Hate Anne Hathaway? I know. It's really okay. No, it has a happy ending. Life continues. Yes, but I know what that feels like. I think when people write things like that or say things like that, it is cyberbullying. And so how did you deal with all that? Well, I listened at first, and I couldn't help it. And you try to shut it off, and I couldn't. And then I realized why I couldn't was I hadn't learned to love myself yet. I hadn't gotten there. And if you don't love yourself when someone else says horrible things to you, a part of you is always going to believe them. Then it was like, Okay, I don't want to believe these people. I don't want to agree with them on any level.

I want to... I want to figure out who I am. I want to learn who I am, and I don't want to feel like I'm fragile every time I leave the house because I'm so dependent on what other people think about me. So I just took a step back, and as Matthew would say, Matthew McCona, my co-star in the interest, I would say, I just kept living. And it's been a really cool journey. And I feel like I've arrived in a place where maybe not every minute of every day, but way more than I used to. I have a tremendous amount of love and compassion for everyone else. And best of all, I have it for myself, which I've never enjoyed before.

Good. I'm clapping. I'm in the audience.

I'm clapping.

Yeah. I mean, I think that I love that for her. I love this journey for her. I fully support Anne Hathaway. I fully support her journey. But there's just something so Anne Hathaway about being like, I just looked to my co-star, Matthew McConaher, and I just kept living. And it's been a really cool journey for me.

The part that's so Anne Hathaway is that she goes, in turn, I had a lot more love and compassion for everyone else. Like, reading the Hey online about her made her have a lot of love and compassion for everyone else. And then, of course, for myself. It just, yeah, this is who she is.

This is who she is. And I think that my verdict is that Anne Hathaway is just too authentic for people's liking. Oh, that's probably true. She's too herself. She's too earnest. She's too sincere. She actually is just sincere enough to have that Oscar moment and say it out loud. And that's what bugs people. So anyway, I feel like I leave this deep dive pro not a Hathaway hater, pro Anne. No.

And I think what you said earlier is true, that we should have a little bit more of a stomach for super-sincere people. And what am I talking about as well? Jennifer Lawrence can be annoying because sometimes even the relatableness can feel performative.

I actually appreciate, I think, people who are honest about not being just like you or me.

Right. Exactly.

Who who really do go for things and who really do strive and who do take things seriously. I just think that's a cool part of being a person. And I just I feel like the need to be cool and effortless and to never be someone who can work towards something publicly. I feel like because you don't want to, I don't know.

Look like you're trying.

Look like you're trying. Because because that bugs people. I just think that's dumb. So anyway, we side with pro-Anne on this pod. Yeah.

I don't think that there's anything... Like, there's no shadow side of Anne, in my opinion. She just is who she is.

No, completely. Exactly. And I think that there's no shadow side of her. And honestly, I have a ton of empathy for someone who really was working hard in formative years, who really carried a lot of these movies. Princess Diaries is not this cult classic because Anne Hathaway's performance was sea-level, midline. No, her charm oozed in Princess Diaries, oozed in Devil Wears Prada. She was so good in Les Mis. She actually is a master at her Yeah. And so, yeah. So I have a lot of empathy for someone who works so hard. And just because they don't hit the perfect note people want, they get ridiculed. Because I think that that would be a very unpleasant experience for her. I'm sure it was.

Here's another thing. That video of her dancing. It's a little bit awkward, but I don't want any videos of me dancing.

No. Oh my gosh. Absolutely not.

There's that one from us at Black Prairie Farms. I hate it. I absolutely hate it myself. I like to dance, but I don't ever want to see footage of it.

Do you know the one Angie took?

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

That was a video we did for Angie because we love Angie. But I don't think any of us really want to be dancing on Instagram or TikTok.

Yeah. I mean, maybe unless you are a dancer, we're just not. We do not have rhythm.

Which none of us are.

You know what's funny? I don't know if you ever felt this way, but I used to feel very nervous dancing in front of boys I liked. Do you ever feel that way?

On this Anne Hathaway deep dive, I did not know you were going to bring this up. This fun fact about you. And now I didn't know that. Oh, I'm just saying...

Because I think I feel very sometimes awkward about my own dancing. I feel like I get in my head. But I don't... Yeah, I don't feel awkward dancing in front of Ben. So there it is. Have you ever felt that way? Have you ever felt that way?

No, I think you just have to be in a state of mind where you don't care. For sure.

And you have more self-love, maybe.

I just know. I just know how to get there, maybe more than you do.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

But if I'm dancing, I am fully not self-aware at all.

But not necessarily, not like pre-Cagan, pre-like being in a great relationship. Would you ever feel that way in front of new flames?

Honestly, I just don't remember environments where I would dance with new flames.

Yeah, that's true. You're writing poetry or some shit. Annoying. So annoying. Okay. Is there anything else about our dear girl?

Okay, so there is one final moment for the Hathaway haters who are listening, who are like, We did not get the verdict that we wanted to be handed down. I'm going to leave them with this on the Steve Dive of Anne Hathaway. Okay. She had this moment with a reporter on the red carpet. I'm actually very interested for your take in it. Okay. Sitting next to Anna Wintour at the Michael Kora show where you recreated that look. Have you guys ever spoken about the movie from the- Yes. And what has she shared? Why would I tell you? I'm a fan and I need to know.

Oh, very odd.

The interviewer asks, she says, You were sitting next to Anna Wintour at the fashion show. Did she say anything to you about basically alluding to The Devil Wears Prada? About the movie? And she said, And she said, What did she say? And then she goes, Why would I tell you? And then the interview is like, Well, because I'm a major fan and I got to know. And she's like, Yeah, but you weren't there. I will say it's a little weird. It's so weird.

It's totally rude.

It's very condescending.

That's when Anne, when she can't fake it, it really doesn't do well for her. Correct. She wasn't like, That'll stay between me and her forever.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah.

Or she's ready to star in 2.0..

She looked like she was also just not necessarily enjoying the interview at all. Like her expression going into it.

It's a short clip. Who knows if interviewer had said something before that. That was weird. It was funny. When I was on my Rachel McAdams deep dive on my own, I was watching this interview and she was getting interviewed for this film. I forgot which one, but just this random film. And the interviewer was like, did you know that Ryan Gosling was also up for the lead male character in this film? Yeah. And it was just It's so funny to watch her just have to navigate that question. You know, like 15 years after they dated, basically, or 12 years or whatever it was. Because it was a recent interview and the interviewer was like, would that have been something that you would have wanted to work with Ryan Caustling again? Oh my gosh.

Can you imagine? No, it would be so annoying.

It would be so annoying. Although she managed to answer so gracefully, so kindly, but didn't give the interview anything. We need that deep dive. Yeah, we need that deep dive. Okay, Chana, well, that was a wonderful deep dive through the psychology of Americans and Anne Hathaway. Great job.

Thank you so much. Excellent job. I really appreciate the balanced research and what you're doing for journalism at large.

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