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Hi. I can't believe we're doing this. I can't believe it.

I know. I know. I'm so excited we get to do it. I forgot how to improvise, but I remembered a little bit.

Oh, my God. Me too. Jesus.

I'm.

Going to get my cans on here.

Got you back? I got to figure out my wig for this. The most important relationship we have is with ourselves and the most important couple, the old me and the new me. Today's guest wants to integrate these two mes into a big old I. Stay tuned as he says more. A cup of tea for you and me, Patisserie, say more. I'll lend an ear to hear your fear of why you're weird. Say more. You got to dig a little deeper, baby. Time to dig. Focus on yourself. Don't worry about my credentials. A mental spa. A blah, blah, blah. Je ne savais quoat. French. Say more. Say more. Say more. What's wrong with you? Welcome, everyone. Thank you so much for listening to Say More. As we round out our season, I just wanted to thank all of the Moreheads out there who have been following me, us, all of us through this incredible journey. I'm so pleased to introduce my patient today, my client, someone who's simply sitting in the chair across from me, as I like to say. Chris Chapman is joining us.

Chris, welcome. Thank you for having me, Doctor. First of all, may I say thank you? Yeah, Chris Chapman, obviouslyI'm, I mean, do I need to keep talking about who I am? I mean, you know who I am. I'm pretty sure.

I apologize. I don't know who you are, so if you could fill.

Me in. Every once in a while, this happens, right? I'll meet someone, they're just looking at me, and I realize they don't know who I am. I give them a look like, Yeah, it's me. They're like, Yeah, I don't know who you are. But yeah, Chris Chapman, the Chris Chapman Confrontation, which was a podcast that was, let's say, pretty popular. It was in a top 10 lists.

I don't listen to podcasts.

This one, if you don't like podcasts, I always say this is a great one to listen to because sometimes podcasts, just like they're fucking lame. The Convertation was just like liquid rock and roll mixed with a little bit of ecstasy. Recently stopped it, we shut the whole thing down and took a little bit of time off, but most people know me from that. Also was the host of Extreme Dating, which probably watched Extreme Dating.

I try not to.

Extreme Dating, for those of you who don't know, is a pretty popular show on MTV Three years ago, where it was just we would take couples and put them in crazy situations. We would put the couple in the cage and drop the cage in the water and have sharks circling the cage. As things get romantic, a shark would come out of nowhere and batter the cage. A lot of people know me from that. But for the last six, seven years, I've basically just been doing what you do, podcasting-amazing.

-amazing. And so it's important to you to be heard.

Oh, God. Yeah. No. I mean, always from a young age, my parents would always be like, Oh, boy, here comes Mr. Opinion. And I'd come in and just tell people. I always had hot takes even as a little boy. And so I always have things to say. I always want people to hear my thoughts. And I think that's why I got in to stand-up comedy, which is what I started with.

And The confrontation is a show that you're continuing now?

No, it was a show that I did, and it was taken from me. I can't stress how popular it was. It just became like a movement almost, where if you were someone who the mainstream media wouldn't have on, I would have you on, and we would get into it. You'd come in, guys would come in, we'd take off our shirts, and we would just stare at each other and fucking talk and really get into it. It was a great show, and they decided to end the show, just shut it down after I had a little bit of a legal snafflew in 2022 that just finally, I think, is over now. Part of that situation was, no, that situation ending was contingent on me ending the show. Does that make sense?

It doesn't. No.

The company said I could no longer work for them.

So were you fired?

Yeah. Well, I like to say canceled. You know what I mean? You know what cancel culture is?

I certainly do. So you're here to discuss what?

Well, I'm here because Odyssey said we want to give you a new show. We want to give you the chance to come back on and basically just show people that you're not the same guy you were. I thought it would be a good idea to come on here, talk to you, even though I personally don't really believe in therapy. I thought if I came on here and I could talk to you and get my story out there, and most importantly, really hook into your audience, because my audience is literally all men.

I believe, yes, when we last checked our numbers, we were like 99.9 % women. And you need more women because...

They said, if you want to do a show, you need to get at least one % of women.

Would you be interested in trying something with me? I think we can spend the next hour in this session talking about your show, which sounds wonderful. So good. But what I would love to do is treat you if I could, like I treat my patients here, my clients, my my patriot, if you will, as a couple. And stay with me here. If I could speak to old Chris and new Chris as if they are a couple that need to be integrated in order to move forward.

So just to get this straight, you want to talk to me, but as a couple.

Well, I don't want this to sound like... Let me think of it in language you would use. I don't want this to sound like a gay thing, Chris, but I do want you to face yourself and gently caress yourself in this process. So it's really about sitting next to yourself, the old version of yourself, and saying, Hey, thank you. I release you. I honor you. Words like that. So is that something you'd be open to trying?

I think it does. And I will say this, it does sound a little gay, and I can say that because my cousin is gay. He is super gay.

How wonderful for him.

Do you know Sanzu Machiveli?

I don't.

They're like a YouTube streamer, and they do all these long videos, and they always talk about opening yourself up to new things. I saw their video and I tried snowboarding, and now I go once a year. I'm going to take Sanzu Machiveli's advice. I'm going to open myself up to this. I'm putting myself in your hands. Don't try to hypnotize me. Maybe turn me into some fucking chicken or something. But yeah, I'm down.

Sure. So what I thought we could do today is talk to old Chris. I think the way we would start is inviting old Chris. So this is going to feel maybe a little awkward, but you have your phone with you. Could you pretend to take out your phone and call the old version of yourself and invite him here today?

Wow. I got a text message from Anthony Ketus. Do you know him? Yeah, he's a friend of mine. Let me see if I can find my number. It's a new phone.

And again, Chris, this is symbolic. You don't really need to call anyone. Right, right. No, don't. Just the feeling of calling him in to the room. But sometimes I find that men can't picture. They need a tool.

Yes. Oh, my God. I saw this great video on YouTube. It was called Tool Time, but not the one on Home Improvement. It was this guy. He's got a crazy long beard. Let's get back to the- Let's get back to it. Yeah, let me go ahead and I'm going to… It's ringing. Hello? Is this Chris? Who the fuck is this? Hey, man, it's you. It's you down the line. Listen, motherfucker. You try to call me again, I'll blow your brains out. No, Chris, chill. This is a real thing. This is me calling you. Me calling me in the future. I'm wondering if you can come and talk to me right now with a doctor and chop it up. I don't know, man, that sounds gay. I know, I know. But I think it's going to be beneficial for both of us. I don't know if it can help you. I don't know how the time space continuum works. But I did watch a crazy video on that last night.

Which is-So let's imagine that Old Chris has now arrived. So Old Chris and New Chris are here.

What's up, bro? What up?

And just to let you off the hook here, we don't need you to do the different voices. Oh, yeah. No, sorry. Excellent. And have you heard of the idea of personal enmeshment? You don't need to pretend you have. So personal enmeshment is about getting so close to the other version of you that you become one version. And integration is really important because to move forward, you have to figure out where you've been.

It's like-Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde.

Say.

More. I watched a YouTube video about Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde, and they were the same guy, but two sides of it, and they tried to come together. It didn't work out well for him, but I'm sorry. I thought that's what you were.

Going for. Excellent. I was trying to think of something a bit more complex, but I think we shouldn't go there. So what I would love for new Chris to do is to talk to old Chris about what he is hoping this new podcast will do for the both of them.

What up, Dog? Listen, man, you're going to do a show that's going to be called the Chris Chapman Do-Over, and it's a totally different show. I want this to be a show that shows people that I'm not a weird freak and I'm like a normal guy because some people think I'm a bad person, but I'm not.

So what I'm going to do right now is a process called poking you, and I'm also going to physically poke you.

That was right in the fucking kidney.

Old Chris is going to say to you, Hey, I like to make funny jokes. And what's wrong with funny jokes?

First of all, I'd say those jokes are hilarious. Everyone agrees on that. So don't feel like you're not funny. You're super funny. But I would say to him, It's a little bit different, bro. It's not 2012. We're not running around and we're like, Oh, man. Yeah. Barack Obama made the Iran deal. Have you heard about Game of Thrones? What is it? That's a different time. Also don't worry about trying to impress people with telling a off-color joke. There's other ways to impress people. You can impress them physically. I was the other night at a friend's house, and I told him I could do 1,000 pushups in a row. He goes, That's no way. You're too old.

Chris then insisted he could do 1,000 pushups, and so we went outside and I watched him try for the next 30 minutes. He did 22. Hello, my more heads. I'm currently at an important wellness conference, and I've just met one of my contemporaries, Estelle Perrell. Hello. Estelle is a New York Times bestselling author, acclaimed TED talk speaker, and host of the very popular relationship podcast, Where Should We Begin? I'm delighted to say that I've given her little show a listen, and I do recommend it quite useful, quite juicy. Thank you, Dr. Sheila, was it? Yes, but you have to say doctor as a question. Oh, well, thank you, Dr. Sheila, for the glowing review? Again, just the doctor has to be the question. So, Esther, now that I've spoken a little bit about your podcast, I think it might be polite if you want to promote my podcast or… I'm sorry, I would love to. But since you just approached me here at this hotel, Jim holding a microphone, I don't really know what your podcast is. Esther, very funny. Just say, I'm Esther Pareil, and you should listen to Say More. I'm Esther Pareil, and you should listen to… What was it?

Say more. I wish I could. But again, I don't know you or your podcast, but I'm sure it's terrific. Well, it is. Listen to Where Should We Begin? And say more wherever you get your podcasts. Download Instacart, the holiday rescue app, to get $20 off your first $60 order with code, Sheila20. Offer valid for a limited time, additional terms apply. In relationships, we try to be everything for our partner, but that is an impossible request. No one human can be everything for another human, but there is a corporation that can be, and it's Uncommon goods. Uncommon goods makes the most remarkable and truly unique gifts for everyone on your list. Gifts like Mission to Mindfulness, Mars, Zen Garden, NASA Beer, Spacesuit, Murder mystery, puzzle book, Oh, Liz, I want that one. See, they are everything. Maybe we should all marry Uncommon goods. To get 15 % off your next gift, go to uncommongoods. Com/papercite. That's uncommongoods. Com/papercite for 15 % off. Don't miss out on this limited-time offer. Uncommon goods were all out of the ordinary. Let's just bring it back to where we are because what I'm finding, Chris, is that you're such a dazzling conversationalist.

That's what I do. You know what I mean? I get in your head. I get up in.

Your shit. That's wonderful. But what I would love is to get back into the feeling because I think old Chris and new Chris or the Chrises need to become intimate in order to integrate. And so there has to be some, for lack of a better term, love making that happens between the two that I get to witness.

So basically, you're telling me, Go fuck yourself. I'm going to watch.

Say more.

Sometimes before I go to bed, I take 150, 200 milligrams of psilocypic chocolate. So when I go to bed, I am tripping like Keith Moon, man. And there's been times where I've imagined myself having sex with myself. Is that a thing? Am I a freak or something?

I studied in Europe, so I'm always very surprised by Americans who don't admit that they have constant fantasies about having sex with themselves. Masculinity is such a tricky, tricky, treacherous walk. And we live in a society now where, look, only 100 years ago, men were allowed to... There was something called dancing with yourself, which, of course, was a euphemism for something else. But it was, Sir, madam, I must go dance with myself. Yes. And that was everyone said, Of course, and you were allowed to go into your room and dance with yourself.

It was normal. It was like Men's War like Fedores. There's a YouTuber named Galaxin, and.

He-chris, I'm going to stop you here. What I'm realizing is you're such a charismatic person and you're so engaging. But I think at times that you use your words to avoid the feeling, and more specifically, to avoid the feeling of being scared.

It's interesting. I will say I'm not scared a lot. I'm not scared a lot. Listen, I know it's not popular. I got a lot of fucking guns. I got aazuca, like a legit Vietnam-eraazuca. I have rockets for it. So if someone were to come to the Chapman Ranch.

Who's going to come? Who are you afraid will come?

I mean, Antifah.

Or-and what if they do come?

What happens then?

Fucking light them up. And then you light them up and then what?

I'd probably have to call some friends of mine, come and dispose them. Maybe I call the police.

I don't know. Then the police come and then what happens?

If the police come, they probably, I mean, depending where we're at, if we're here in in gruesom, Gavin Newsom, California, I'm probably going to go to jail for the.

Rest of my life. Then you go to jail for the rest of your life, and then what?

In jail, I probably, just for my own safety, would either have to join the Muslim Brotherhood or like La Norte, Tanya.

So then you are part of La Norteña? Say more.

And then I probably at some point would have to pull some prison hit against one of the other El Salvadorian gangs. And I'd probably make a shevesure to take the guy out of an old bed frame and clip the guy. Say more. Oh, man. Then I'm probably in the hole in solitary confinement for the rest of.

My life. And then what happens?

Then I'm just by myself, and I'm really got no one to hear me or listen to my hot takes or agree with me or say like, What? Oh, man, you're messed up. I would just be me because it's solitary. Solitary is from the Roman by yourself.

And no one could hear you. No one could hear you speak.

Yes.

That's a very, very big fear for you.

Yeah. If I was in solitary confinement and I was just talking shit to myself, I feel like that would be a horrible thing.

Worse than death.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Because death, just watched a 37-hour YouTube clip all about death from this guy named.

The- Let's just stay here, sorry. You have a book.

I did. I wrote a book in 2016 called The Politics of Piss... Because it was such a weird time in the country. People were so political. And my whole thing was we need to put politics aside, you know what I mean? I wouldn't talk about politics on the air. I do this imitation of people who were like, Oh, did you hear who won the election results? And that was like my character. So it's like a whole book about other things you could talk about besides politics.

You know, in 2016, I sat that one out. I sat it out. I said, This is too toxic. I don't know. I can't pick.

Never have voted. Like, ever in my life, never will. I don't even vote for American idol. I'm like, Whoever wins, wins. I think there is a philosopher out there, and I'm trying to remember his name, but God damn it, Dave Navarro.

Dave.

Navarro, guitar player, singer, songwriter, brilliant guy. And he's like, Choices are annoying. I want a vacation with him. He's like, Choices are annoying. And show me the path. Don't tell me the choice. And he's got that tattooed right on his ass, back of his thighs and his ass.

Let me ask you this as we round out our session, and by the way, thank you for being so open. I don't have a lot of male listeners.

That's about to change. That's the Chris Chapman effect.

I really think that you're going to be speaking to a lot of men out there, or at least the women that live with them.

Yeah, well, that's a very interesting thing is my goal is you got some lady and her husband comes home, long day of work, and he goes to kiss his wife and she looks at him and she says, I heard Chris Chapman today. He goes, I love that guy. Then they have a nice moment together. I feel like that to me, I can't imagine something more wonderful than that happening. Maybe coming on your show and maybe getting my voice banging around at some broad's head is a special sauce to make that happen.

What if you fail? What if you fail? What if you do very, very badly? What if you don't get the numbers you need? What if people hate your new show? What if they hate you? What if what you say gets you doubly canceled? What if your cancelation takes food out of your children's mouths? What if your wife leaves you? What if everything that is about to happen will be the worst thing that's ever happened to you?

I don't think it will. Maybe it will. Maybe everything you say could happen happens, and my wife leaves me and takes the kids, and Anthony Kiedis won't return my phone calls, and they find out about the money that I've been putting into Shell companies, and they take my house away from me. They take the house in Buckhead. They take the house in Jackson Hole. They take the house in Puerto Rico. I end up just indigent, bouncing from couch to couch. And if I do that, I'll keep doing what I do.

Which is?

Give, hot, takes.

A man who knows himself and a therapist who is happy to hear it. Chris, so pleased to have you on. I really hope that I get a chance to come to your podcast.

You have an open invitation, by the way. If you are ever in Fort Worth.

Really, really enjoyed talking to you today. And if you want me to take out that thing about the Shell Corporation, I'll do that if.

You want to. I literally forgot that I said that because that is.

Like-okay, great. You should have your people maybe listen back to something else.

Yeah, that's actually a good idea. It's not even a Shell Corporation is basically.

Like-i would stop talking about it. Yeah. Another season complete, folks. Wow. Thank you to my producer, Liz, who covered me on these credits for the few times I wasn't available. We cannot wait to make more of these with you. Yes, we have to- Let's get the credits going, Liz.

This is an improvised episode of Saymore with Dr. Sheila. The cast.

Includes-hi, this is Amy Polar.

And I'm Mike Bernholdt.

And you are listening to Saymore.

Saymore. Saymore with Dr. Sheila. Saymore is a.

Presentation of Odyssey and Paper Kite Podcast. It's produced by Best Case Studios. Amy Polar and Liz Kukowski are writers and executive producers. Alice Stanley Jr. Is a writer, producer. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Ike. Oh, my God. You are so locked into that dude. He is amazing.

I can't. I can't talk about it. He's so annoying. He's so stupid. He's just constantly.

Talking about videos and he's like-For Best Case Studios, Adam Pinkus is executive producer, Suzanne Meyer, supervising producer, Hannah Leibovitz-Lawkart and Isabel Evans, producers.

That's why I have the regimen. Do you know about the regimen?

Say more.

My day starts at 1:00 AM, and I'm up and I am working out for at least three hours. I have a full breakfast.

At.

4:00 AM. 4:00 AM, like a full English breakfast sometimes, pancages, French toast, back to bed by 5:00 AM. I'm up again at 9:00. Then I have a smoke chamber. It's like a sauna, but there's actual flames and smoke inside of it. At 2:00 PM, I'm back asleep for four hours.

Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Weisbergman and Leah Rees-Dennis. Special thanks to the team at Odysee, Yenican burning, Melissa Wester, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Schiff, and for Paper Kite.

Sam Green. Oh, my God. They did not vote. They don't vote. He never votes. They don't vote.

They.

Don't vote. They're fucking crazy. Oh, my God. All my favorites. And also, really, Julie, Dr. Sheila will have to come on your show to try to get some mail to her. Yes. Oh, my God.

To her. Holly Barber and Alice Stanley Jr. Composed the Dr. Sheila theme song. Additional music is by Holly Barber. This episode was edited and mixed by Daniel Turek. We recorded at Studio Awesome in L. A. And The Cutting Room in New York. Follow and listen to say more with Dr. Sheila now for free on The Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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