Before we go on to what you'd like to talk about today, you'll have probably seen our report that my colleague has been doing this morning about shared ownership and wanting more transparency with the service charges. What would labor do even when you're in power?

Well, we do want to see that additional transparency. This is an issue that I've come across myself in my own area, actually, where service charges have increased very substantially, very little explanation of that being provided to people about why the changes have occurred. We've been calling on government to be ensuring that greater transparency. Here, of course, other measures that we've called for in relation to leaseholders as well. Unfortunately, we've not seen Michael Gove taking forward those measures in this area that are necessary.

You are promising to protect family finances following a spike in repossession?

Yeah, that's right. We've seen, unfortunately, that the number of repossessions went up by over a quarter, 26% in the aftermath of the Liz Trust mini budget. Now, of course, that's a statistic, but for every single family caught in that situation, having to move out of the home that they thought was going to be theirs, this is a huge tragedy. We have set out those plans today to make sure we could never We're going to see a rerun of what we saw under Liz Trust and the Conservatives, the fiscal lock that we set out. Also, the plans to be delivering those additional genuinely affordable and social homes that people so desperately need.

What about those coming to this country that would like to make this their home illegally, says the government. The Rwanda Bill could well get royal assent by Thursday. What's the labour's view?

This is a completely unworkable and extortionately expensive approach from the government. It's a pure gimmick because even if on the government's own figures, they manage to get some people in the air and eventually onto Rwanda, it's actually going to be as expensive as transporting every single one of those people to France and putting them up in the Paris Ritz for four years. This isn't a serious plan to get a grip on these matters. Labor has set out a serious plan, for example, to have the joint police cell that we need to smash the criminal people, smuggling gangs to get the backlog down as well. If people who need to have their claims processed, we've got 100,000 of them. That would be ending hotel use that, of course, Wishie Sunak promised, but hasn't delivered on. As I said, we need a proper plan here. All we've had from the Conservatives are gimmicks and a very, very expensive one in the Rwanda scheme at that.

Yeah, but it does look as though, nevertheless, it will pass eventually through the House of Commons and receive royal assent. The government, if they were sat there this morning, would say, Okay, Rwanda has not gone quite as planned, but there are many other countries that are lining up, given that Rwanda has been the trailblazer, and we will be sending people there as well.

But this is a scheme that we'd cover by the government's own reckoning around 300 people, potentially. That's a drop in the ocean compared to the huge backlog that the Conservatives have allowed to develop. Even just, for example, over the Easter period, we saw more people actually coming in. The government is not dealing with this issue seriously. They need to have a proper plan. That's what Labor set out. Instead, as I said from the Conservatives, all we've had is a gimmick and an incredibly expensive one at that.

What's Labour's view on potentially using the RAF to take people to Rwanda?

Well, actually, we already We have a scheme and a system in many different areas for ensuring that there is overseas processing of people's claims. That's been the case, for example, with the Afghan schemes. That's already built in. The difference with the UK government's approach here is they know that the Rwanda scheme is incredibly expensive. Regardless of the method of transportation, they've been providing very large sumss of money to the Rwandan government. We heard today, I think, that there was going to be additional major payments, millions of pounds going to Rwandan government.50 million.50 million. Now, that is a huge amount, overall adding up to half a billion that the UK government is committed to give to the Rwandan scheme. That is simply not a good use of money here when we need to make sure we've got that proper robust system, as I said, to smash the criminal gangs, to get the backlog down, and also deal with the reasons why people are trying to make these very dangerous crossings in the first place.

Yeah, my question is whether labor would object to the RAF being used to take people to Rwanda?

I mean, we need to look into any such suggestions, of course, from the UK government. But the method of transport isn't really the issue here, to be honest with you.

It is, because that's what I'm asking you. When What I'm asking you is, what do you think about the optics of the RAF taking people to Rwanda?

I think that our armed forces do an incredible job. I think it's important that job is focused on where they're needed, and we've seen them, in fact, acting very bravely and courageously in many different... But it is a response to your question because that means that the UK government... It's not.

You're going to talk to me about Israel, and I'm going to come on to that. I'm asking you about the optics of the RAF taking people down to Rwanda and whether Labor would object to that.

Well, we need to make sure whenever our armed forces are used, that that's done sensibly in line with their overall mandate. Will it be sensible to do that? Well, we think the whole scheme isn't sensible.

Will it be sensible given that it becomes law that the RAF would be called upon to take people to Rwanda?

Look, we've been really clear. We don't want this scheme to proceed in any incarnation.

Well, it's going to. It's going to because it's going to become law on Thursday, and there will be some fighting about it in the courts, but the government is absolutely determined. Probably their election depends on it, getting people, at least some of them, footfalling in Rwanda. My question is, how would Labor feel about the RAF facilitating that?

We don't think there should be any facilitation of this scheme by anyone because it's not going to work. It's extortion internationally expensive, and rather than a gimmick like the Rwanda scheme, we need a proper plan, and that's what Labor set out. That applies whoever is involved in delivering it. This is not a serious response from government to the issues that we're talking about.

What is an acceptable retaliation by Israel after what happened at the weekend?

Well, we think it's really important that there's de-escalation now with the very worrying set of circumstances that we've seen developed. Obviously, this matter was discussed Just in the House of Commons yesterday, and Kier Starmer really urge Frodsci Sunak to use every opportunity to try and ensure that there is a de-escalation, that we don't see further conflict.

Yeah, but is there any acceptable retaliation by Israel, as far as labor is concerned?

We don't want to see a situation where we're seeing a confligration, where we're seeing additional conflict. Here, ultimately, Israel did repel those appalling drone attacks that came from Iran. Of course, our UK armed forces were engaged in that as well. We think it's really important now that there are cool heads that prevail, that we don't see a further escalation, because frankly, for the people of that region who are in so much fear at the moment of further escalation, of further insecurity and violence, we need to make sure the international community is thinking above all about them and urging restraint and de-escalation.

You're confident that Netanyahu makes certain decisions?

Well, where we have seen, unfortunately, Benjamin Netanyahu taking the wrong position, we've been very clear about that as Labor. We think it was wrong that he rejected the two-state solution. For example, we've also been very clear that the settler violence that we've seen on the West Bank is completely unacceptable. Labor has also said, again, in distinction to the UK Conservatives government, that, for example, it's right the ICJ is investigating the conflict as the International Court of Justice. Where there has been behavior that's not acceptable, Labor has been very clear.

Retaliation would be wrong.

Well, we believe there needs to be de-escalation rather than some repeated tip for tap. We don't think that's in the interests of anyone in the region.

We've overrun, as usual. It's good to see you. Thanks so much indeed.