This week in Holiday, Utah, the brutal and mysterious murder of a woman goes cold when the only evidence investigators can find are some Legos near the body. But in the end, Legos turn out to have more uses than just building things. Welcome to small town murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder. Yeah, yeah, indeed, Jimmy, yeah, indeed. My name is James Petraglia. I'm here with my co-host, Jimmy Listman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. We're excited today, as usual. Who's excited as you can be for death and mayhem, I guess. But it's exciting. Sometimes we're going to make it fun and do our best anyway. But thank you guys for joining us. Hope you enjoyed last week because it was nuts last week. We've we've had a run lately of some wild, wild things last week. I mean, it's a guy and his mom, right.

That's a strange murder combination. They're doing it. You I mean, you don't expect that? Well, I don't know. You know, like we don't know for sure when they find a murderer. Usually they're not like we found him. We should probably talk to his mom. I bet she was in on it too late. That's not normal. You know what I mean? So very odd case and pretty gross and brutal, too. So check out last week and every week before that.

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And you'd have access to not only the small town murder bonus, but everything we put out on crime and sports, which is usually never about sports. So you'll like both. This week's a bonus on crime and sports is going to be what do we say the crime in sports is going to be the you said it and don't look at me. He says, well, I'm in the small town murders going to small town murder. We're going to do the white trash defense, which was from Lou Diamond Phillips, Oklahoma.

Right. If you remember that episode where a man literally used the white trash defense and it is and the jury was all white people as well, which is pretty hilarious as a as a as an appeals defense. So there's legal documents telling you why this white trash defense and he shouldn't be a murderer because he shits in a bucket on the porch rather than in a toilet like a normal person. But for crime and sports, we're going to do some personal ads.

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We're going to dive deep into the white trash defense. And I got the book that they got based out of. It's ridiculous. It's going to be hilarious. So check that out there. Quick disclaimer. It's a comedy show. Yeah, it is. People Die. It's called Small Town Murder. I don't know how much more clear we could be about that. We don't make fun of victims. We don't make fun of victims families because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags.

And there it is. That's right. There's plenty of crazy stuff that happens around a murder that's pretty damn hilarious where you don't need to, you know, make fun of actual dismemberments and things like that. And so we'll have plenty of fun with that. And if that's doesn't sound good to you, you don't think true crime should ever have any jokes even in the zip code of it? Right. Then maybe you're not going to like the show.

Maybe you will, but maybe it won't. So, you know, look into it with some with open eyes. But for the rest of you that want to have a good time, I think it's time to sit back, clear the old lungs and shout, shut up and give me Murda. Let's do this. I cannot wait. Let's go on a trip. We would love it. All right. We're going all the way this week to Utah, you know, heading out, getting away from the Midwest this week.

And we're heading out to Utah. Yeah, it's a holiday. Utah. Oh, Jesus. Yes. Like Doc Holiday. Double, low, double, double. Holladay, Utah. Now, we weren't we were in Utah about 30 episodes ago, I want to say. Yeah, but this is just north near Provo and all that. Yeah, I was out there. This is right near Salt Lake City. Oh, to the north central Utah.

Yeah. This is about 20 minutes to downtown Salt Lake City. So this is a suburb. OK, this is a nice little happy suburb out here where all of the horrible things happened. Absolutely repulsive stuff. About 20 minutes. Like I said, the downtown Salt Lake City, it's in Salt Lake County. It's a matter of fact area codes, three, eight, five and eight on one. Yeah. So look out for calls from there.

And just in case, and it's about eight and a half square miles, this town. That's a little town, you could see it. If you look on the map, it's just on the edge of the Salt Lake City area. You'll see all the and a more congested streets. And then it's yeah, it's on the edge out there. Out there in the burbs. Yeah. One of those deals now, history of this town, John Haliday, our holiday here.

He was born in South Carolina and there was some confusion on his name. For some reason, people call them John Daniel Holiday. And then other people said he was just John Holiday. People fought over this over the if a man used his middle name in conversation or not, it was like a source. Yeah, a source of fighting, which is a little weird. South Carolina, calm down and a fight over anything down there. Jesus Christ.

Historical records agree that it was just John, though, and that's that's what it was. So whoever said John Daniel is wrong and I'm sure they'll never agree that they were wrong and they'll sell John Daniel flags one hundred and fifty years from now at flea markets, you know what I mean? His name will rise again. His name will rise again. God damn it. So he married Catherine Beasley Higgins, who's also from South Carolina in eighteen twenty two in South Carolina.

In South Carolina, they had ten children. Fucking not bad. Nine of them survived. Holy. So then that's a pretty good 90 percent survival rate is wild for early child. Yeah. Normally like I said, I use half and half by ten. It's like you lost half the kids, you had ten kids.

But it's very much like a disease where you got you may be forty and you lived through it, but you got some lingering effects from that shitty childhood. Yeah, definitely diseases. You can't then. And yeah, I thought everybody was in the that your left foot got caught in that and the typhoid fever that you got or whatever the hell you died from on Oregon Trail. I started living. It was tough. You were forty but you got one arm.

You were. Yeah. And you were lucky to have it. You were happy to have happy. God damn it. Very thankful. I'm happy to have this ah. Blue eyes that really you could have lost my right arm but I just lost my left blacktail you. What I, I smiled that day. I said I just, I just became lettered about two weeks ago. I learned how to sign my name and now I'm, I'm a loose ma'am I think.

S so very happy I got to keep my my my ass wipe in hand. That's a good one there. It's a good thing. And other things, of course, you know we do. Well I'm not on the Lord's day of course, but you know, on other days there might be some.

That's my personal hand is what I'm telling you. There might be some some gerkin happening is all I'm getting that now. Ten kids. Yeah that's that's like I said, you'd have ten thinking that five will die at fifty fifty and if nine survived you're like fuck we have nothing to fight on. Shit. Yeah. Unless you have a giant farm, it's too many kids. So his earliest known, his great grandfather's name is John also he's John the Ranger Holiday.

Yeah. From Bellefonte, Virginia. Bellefonte, Virginia. Now the Ranger is also a ancestor of Doc Holliday, is that right? Yes, he is. So the whole family is a whole family this holiday. Bunch of holidays. So and that's spelled differently, though, that holiday. But that's yeah. I have relatives that spell their name. I was here and there and it doesn't matter. So. Yeah. So that there's an also Ben Holiday who is known as the Stagecoach King.

He's also in this family like he protected the stagecoach or he robbed, I think of the stage. Maybe he was like the king of states had them all rented them out, just like the U-Haul guy of the day. He's like, come on down. He's doing commercials. Yeah, come on down the stagecoach king, crazy stagecoach gigaba. I got the craziest prices in town. You need a stagecoach, poxon, axle's wheels, other shit they sell in Oregon Trail.

You can afford a river. Come on down here to the Stagecoach King holiday. I got business cards for the friendly Indian guy. It's a magnet, right? Look at that. Put it right on your fridge next to your fucking Little Caesar's on the stagecoach king. Sounds like the guy that sells the shitty stagecoach. Yeah. He wants to discount. Still need a new one in five years. Yeah. And no credit. No problem. The Stagecoach gig.

All you need is a job, right. Forty seven percent interest rate at the stagecoach getting laid off particleboard. That's an actual fucking crumbles as you pull it apart as you followed by a stagecoach. But it comes in boxes, you've got to put it right, here you go, you're like shit, but it has the tools and they didn't put the nails in here, you fucking asshole. Jesus Christ, we were going to leave tomorrow almost here a little while on Phuket.

So eighteen, 1847, a group of Mormon pioneers where they were known as the Mississippi Company and toured the Salt Lake Valley. Among them was John Holiday. He was in this group of the Mormon women, all of his kids there, and I guess decided they were going to be Mormon and go to Utah. Yeah. Wow. Imagine getting talked into that shit back then. It's hard to talk like I don't know what you would have to do to talk me into any religion, but if somebody was trying to talk me into, like Mormonism now, when it's like Sameem, it's pretty mainstream.

I'd stay of all state. Right. You know what I mean? It's pretty mainstream and it's whatever it's easy to do.

I just it's always sunny when he had all the representations on the bathroom. Yeah. Yeah. And they got the money, the money symbols for the Jews as well. It's not for the Mormons. Yeah. That was always the joke. Every time I hear Mormon, that's what comes back to Boston. It's Danny DeVito going. It's not for the for the Mormons. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's a great fucking show. So, yeah, they they came here and like I said, that would be hard to convince.

Now you just go to you know, you go to church or whatever back then to literally be like, hey, listen, there's this religion now. It's it's brand new. Yeah. I mean, we the dude still alive who said he's like fucking doing it. So, like, there's Joe. You can talk to Joe, ask him about it. Not only that, but you we're going to take a stagecoach from the fucking Atlantic Ocean to Utah.

Yeah.

In the eighteen hundreds, which was Polaris at best. Oh it's a lot.

Yeah it's that's where it is. It's weeks. Yeah. People are going to die along the way. Put it that way. Have you played the Oregon Trail. It's pretty much like that. We're going to it's not going to be great. Right. But when we got there you can be a Mormon and it's going to make you a Mormon.

I mean, that's wow. That's some that's a sales pitch to be able to talk someone into doing all that. Wow. You're quite different when we get there. Holy shit.

So, yeah, they ended up they ended up within weeks of their arrival, they discovered a spring fed stream discovered. I'm sure other people had seen it before. They called it Spring Creek and near now what's now Kentucky Avenue. It says here now that most of the group returned to the main settlement in Great Salt Lake for the winter. But two or three people built dugouts along the stream and stayed there. Imagine a hole through a Utah winter.

Oh, just dug holes in the ice. Wow, that is frozen rock. That's not dirt out there. It's like hibernating that shit. Yeah. You need a pickax to mayors have a better set up in that. That's not good for people here. So in the spring there's a lot of springs and ponds and grasses and wild fire flowers around here. Some people, you know, people thought it was pretty beautiful. They wanted to be there is it's nice.

It's pretty. It's Lori St.. So John Holiday was eventually named branch president of the Church of Latter day Saints, their Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. And the village took it upon itself to name it. They named it Hollidaysburg at first, and then they just drop the Berg part. Holidays. Berg Two words. Oh, really? Two words. Holidays. Berg Wow. Not even one word. So it's they just heard about Pittsburgh.

They've never been that his this time instead of whatever. You never seen a sign.

Now Holiday is the oldest continuously inhabited settlement in Utah because Salt Lake City was abandoned in 1857 when an army occupied it. So it's the oldest continuously inhabited place in Utah.

This town, that continuous part is the part that makes it matter. That's what makes it matter. Yeah. So in day and night in the nineteen sixties, the Cottonwood Mall was constructed and holiday being Utah's first enclosed shopping mall. And of course, it closed down in 2007 because malls are dying. So there's some reviews of this town in the housing crisis. In the housing crisis you have. Right. Twenty seven. That's it. Economy crashed. We're done.

There was a bunch of whatever sales product kings in there. That's the stagecoach king. He made it all the way till then. He made it through the Depression. He made it through everything. Couldn't take the 08 crash, man. It just killed him. So reviews of this town, they're all like complimentary but snarky in a way, like very, very much like passive aggressive. Like it's fucking hilarious. I ain't never, never seen everybody here is passive aggressive.

Here's one that's three stars. So, you know, average that quote I enjoy that holiday is close to the mountains and is generally a safe place to live. I do not like that. The city has poor bicycle infrastructure and a general lack of sidewalks and accessibility for bicycle infrastructure. That's a really specific complaint. Yeah, that's a really specific. Employee at a car, motherfucker. What, Desnos there, you're not in Manhattan. You know what I mean?

Where you're like this is the fear in the fucking suburbs of a spread out western city. You don't expect it's like a son of a bitch a lot. That's the other thing. When are you going to bike ride? Six months out and out here to spread out. Where are you biking to? That's the other part. They do have bike lanes fucking everywhere. Yeah. How often do you see people on bicycles? I mean, downtown that there's some up in like neighborhoods they ride in the neighborhood, put it back in their fucking garage.

It's crackheads are on one. That's it's people literally with backpacks where they are making a small batch of methane. That's what they're doing. And bicycles, people with DUIs and criminal history. If I see an adult with a bomb on a bicycle with a backpack, that's guy hazmat guaranteed. I never trust him ever. If he doesn't have like a child with them or something, adults shouldn't ride their bikes just a distance along unless he's got like, you know, fluorescent bike gear on and looks like an idiot, right?

Street clothes in a backpack. You're up to something. Fuck. You don't trust your one bit. And especially if it's like ten years ago. Street clothes. Oh, that's the problem. Baggy pants. Yeah. Yeah. Dude has a whole closet full of TJ Max. Right. The bicycle. That guy's a problem. He's wearing a you know, he's wearing baggy pants and a Ron Artest jersey and you're like a guy and he says yeah it's not even exactly that's weird shit.

They're not going to work out.

So and it's not like he bought that because it's a throwback.

The numbers are all peeled. Oh, it's all up and it's peeled off because it was never sewn on because he bought it at Ross for nine dollars. That's why it was an eye or not. Yeah, I like our test. All right. Jesus.

So and what small towns have a lot of sidewalks. That's right. You have a sidewalk on Main Street and then that's it. You have a car. Thankful that there's no infrastructure for basically your city committee is cracking down on methods being that areas for bike math, if they can't get around, they can't be here.

You know what part of our twenty twenty campaign, in addition to a tee ball for everybody, Hawley's no more bike lane. No, by non infrastructure at all. No, not bike in a circle in front of your home. Outside of that, you're up to something right around the block. Get get a mountain bike like an adult and go eat or don't fucking do it.

We'd love to let you, but it's just encouraging Matthews's and we can't have it in this town with too many options to people that drink and drive. That's it. They can now get shitfaced and crash their bicycle enemy. So. All right, here's a three star holiday is full of great people, good places to eat, beautiful houses. But it's also like entering a movie about high school students. There are many CLECs, families that have been there forever, plus people who move away for a time, but ultimately move back to be settled down.

So, yeah, it sounds like it's got some small town issues like that. Or I wouldn't want to move here. If you weren't like Mormon and friends with people, it seems like you'd probably be ostracized, which to me would be great actually might be the place to go. So you're saying no one would ever talk to me if people grow up there and then they're like, I fucking hate it.

They get out and then they're like, you know, that wasn't so bad.

And they come back. Yeah, like it's rough on the outside. Yeah. It's crazy when there's people that don't think like it's not weird, it's nuts. So I tried to get more but they didn't want to come back. I found here's a three star holiday. Utah's a nice little suburb. Unfortunately, the families tend to be very cliquey. Another one along with their children. Yeah, there's this is someone whose kids have been treated like shit because they're not Mormon.

There's nothing more so towards Olympus Junior High and Olympus High School. Oh, boy. Where where is where most kids have a hard time with friends or your kids have a hard time with. There's a lot to do in the city and lots of places to go eat or hang out. Its location is near a lot of Utah attractions, but the kids are shit, right? Again, shitty kids and parents.

And ask Mormons. Yeah, here's one.

This person doesn't like this place at all. This is a no star none quote. About the only good thing to say is that natural disasters tend to be infrequent.

Wow. That is that's you know what that's looking for something positive, really, because it would take a while to find that. The positive thing is when you wake up in the morning, your house is probably still there, maybe you're probably still alive. And then it says mostly floods and earthquakes with the occasional tornado. That sounds like they're more natural disasters than you should probably be used to. It's mighty hot in the summer and impenetrably snowy at times in the winter.

Impenetrably unutilized, mighty hot, underutilized, mighty right there. That's beautiful. Mighty hot in the summer, boy. And impenetrably snow because he sounds like an old time, right? You know, like peanut farmer and one word.

And this later on in the sentence he puts impenetrably in it, which is interesting. So yeah, occasional tornado. Any tornadoes are too many tornadoes. And here's another one here. This person is just full of shit. This is a review from 2014, New Year's Eve, by the way. So I feel like he got home and was like, I got to write a review of. New Year's Eve 2014 and not a big party scene guy, but the microbreweries around Salt Lake City are excellent.

Yeah, no, they're not. He just got home from he just got home drinking one point four percent beer. And he was like, that was great. So this town here, for some reason, it really spiked between 2000 and 2010 in terms of population. Right now, there's thirty three thousand seven hundred ninety three people here, which is up 111 percent since two thousand bang in. There was only fourteen thousand people here in two thousand. That's wild.

Yeah. When our crime happened, it was a little less than that. Even so, it's it's definitely different growing up. It's grown a lot since then. It was a much kind of smaller little Hamlet back then here. Female population of male or about normal age is about normal. It's thirty eight is the immediate median age thing here is, as we always find in Utah, married population much higher. It's sixty one percent. Normally it's about fifty fifty lower divorce rate, you know, less people that have never been married, less people that are single, not a lot of single people with kids, that sort of shit.

Yeah. It's, it's, it's, they're Mormons. It's Utah. That's what it is. So race of this town. Jimmy Gas.

Oh boy. I could tell you Polynesian. It's olive oil, man. There's a lot we got 90 percent white here, 90 percent white, one point three percent black.

So a couple of black people.

It's about as high a population as we do. And to have ninety percent of that 90 percent is. Yeah, that's easy. I mean, we've said in Utah, though, they can hide in the snow. So they're very excited about that. It's the camouflage and they pop out and go, have you heard the good word? And you're like, oh, what happened to that white dress shirt of old nametag? Oh, no, it's two percent Asian and five point seven percent Hispanics are pretty fucking white.

You can say here, religion in holiday. Normally it's fifty fifty right. Here it is. Seventy six percent of the people here are religious. Oh it is. And it's sixty one percent of the people here are Mormons.

So it is. Oh boy. It's all very Mormon.

I'll bet that's a pretty close down across the entire state there.

Oh yeah. That's about that. About sixty percent Mormon I think if I'm not sure. But I think that's, that's the count there. Point one percent Jewish. So that's not happening in point five percent Islam. It's just Mormon. So this in Salt Lake County last presidential election, they did this is the interesting one in Utah, 41 percent Democrat, 32 percent Republican and twenty six percent independent. That is because they ran. Yeah, they ran like a moral candidate, right, in Utah.

And he got on the ballot there. Unemployment rate here is super low. This was the beginning of the year, two point eight percent. It was, which is like economically not good. It's so low. It's that bad things will start happening, shortages of workers and shit. So the median household income, though, is high. Normally it's about fifty seven thousand. Here it is, eighty one thousand four hundred nine. And there's a lot of people with a lot of money here.

Three times the amount of people make two hundred thousand or more here than normal. Yeah. Forty three percent of the people here make over one hundred thousand dollars a year. So it's it's good in terms of place to make some cash. Overall, the cost of living. We talk about one hundred being regular average here. It's one thirty five. So a little bit high on the cost of living I would say. And that's killing it in terms of money.

Yeah, but way the housing though makes it like not as great here. Housing is a two twenty two. Holy shit. So the median home cost here is five hundred thirteen thousand one hundred dollars which is really expensive. I don't even know what that looks like. If you make one hundred grand a year, that's a tough stretch. So you're thinking you're doing great. But if you want to buy a three bedroom house, that's good luck for five hundred grand.

It's tough. And you know what? If you're considering it.

Yeah, we have you covered with the holiday Utah real estate report, your average two bedroom rental here.

I don't think they really exist much, but it says it's eleven hundred dollars a month. But I don't see how that's possible with the like I said, I don't think that that might be for like a Chater something. I found a four bedroom, two bath, twenty six hundred ninety square feet. All the houses have at least four bedrooms because people have a lot of kids. That's a lot of square footage. It's decent, not great.

Not updated, not amazing. Nothing like that. Four hundred forty nine thousand nine hundred bucks Mike. Right. That is way too expensive for that house. I found a four bedroom, four bath tee ball for every big hole that shed thirty two hundred sixty six square feet. It's a nice house, clean and neat, like the rest of Utah.

It fits right in. It's just a clean seven hundred nineteen thousand dollars though for that which is too much on. So much then I found another five bedroom, six bath, if you want to stretch out your astrobee hole, your head of the church area, you can invite an extra ball over five thousand three hundred thirty nine square feet. So nice house. Beautiful. Looks like Morman. Tony Soprano would live there like it looks like Tony Soprano's house.

One million six hundred fifty thousand dollars, though.

A million. And then another giant and then another house. A million dollar house and another house. A million and a mortgage. Enjoy that holy mother of five. No, dude, it's so expensive here. That's like pricey suburb. This is I guess they're Scottsdale right now. Dude, that's expensive. That's ridiculous.

No, I can't afford to live in a shitty two bedroom shed somewhere for the rental price on a stretch. So for things to do here, of course, the holiday, you got your cash poor. Yeah. You got all stand in a field and pray. Look at the mount prayer. No fucking money. Nothing. They're pretty, aren't there? I go back in the house. Kids don't waste to get back to work and pay for this.

I spent eight hundred thousand dollars on it. Don't waste it. Just go sit in there and get my money's worth. I found the holiday music fest here. Of course. Holiday Arts is pleased to present the concert here, grab a chair or blanket and join us for an evening of nine performances from amateur musicians. Yeah, and do this sober amateur musicians. Yes. So we need you because the audience is the judge. Oh, God. Help us all.

Audience judging an open mic of my bands. Oh my.

Will be awarding cash prizes for first, second and third place is based on how loudly you hoot and holler Fuck my life. Wow. The performers this night though, let's find out. Stubble and rye. Yeah. I don't know if that's two people. It is. And it's their real names because Mormons love stupid fucking. Yes, this is Johnny Stubble and I'm Bill. Right or no. That's the first name. He's got stubble and he likes rye.

I don't know what it is. Bill Finch. OK, Paul Eggleston. Yeah, I'll be there. OK, Hadley. Nelson now Vic Cage Hughart Project. I'm interested in a cage with a K, by the way.

I'm out. How about Luke Hopkins.

Nope. Nope. Well, the cage hugger project sounds like there's people in it. The other guys all seem like they're gonna show up with an acoustic guitar and fucking make me go to the concession stand. Anthony reads like possessive, like Anthony reads. He owns something, but he won't tell us why.

Apparently because it reads like r e r e d e apostrophe s. Oh, that's what I mean. But he doesn't tell us what he owns. He doesn't know. He does not sure. And then Tyga Hamlyn won't be there. So I actually found out what happened in this particular one because there's also a Blue Moon festival here, like the beer I suppose. No blue moon like two full moons in a month. That's what the actual blue celebra.

It's not beer. No, it's not the beer.

It's it's Utah. They shut that down quick. So there's some Colorado. They don't go fuck themselves.

Yeah, it will actually be when there's a blue moon in twenty fifteen when this is from what I found here, live music will be performed by Imagine the amazing Beatles tribute band and by local favorites, The Saliva Sisters. That sounds disgusting. I don't know. They said either one has thought about either what either great or discuss. I don't know which one yet. They'll have to love to hear a couple of chords in Little Rock and reserve judgment because that could be OK.

So this in that year's show, they had the Charlie Jenkins band here, OK, then they had fifteen twenty Arts, OK, which is a nonprofit for hip hop arts group. Oh boy. And they are the B Boy Federations. I think it's a bunch of breakdancers. I don't think it's to do with music. And then the Cage Hughart project will be there again and again. This Utah high school band was the winner of Holiday Fest two thousand nineteen and that they crushed it.

And regional champions in Salt Lake Community College. Battle of the Bands. Young and talented, they bring enthusiastic energy to the forefront and get crowds engaged. Look at them. And that is a White House that's a Mormon kid playing the saxophone.

It's just a bunch of missionaries. I'm sorry, no Mormons playing the Saxons. I don't know if that's discriminatory, but it's like the Irish shouldn't pick up a basketball. So sorry Larry Bird was Irish. No matter how much you want him to be Boston. I apologize. That's bananas. Mormon shouldn't be allowed to play the Sangre de Sacs if you know they won lack of salt.

They probably won because there's a bunch of people playing bunch of guys. Everybody else was one doing dude or a dude in his front. Yeah, back in back me up man brought their college friends there. I figured something out. Lack of soul, man. Maybe the magic underwear blocks it from coming out. That's all it is, yeah, crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here, problem, Mormon murder pants, by the way, they are all everywhere else.

Renderos under all those are perfect. They're all the same. Everyone's got their crime rate. Property crime is about one third under the national average. So about two thirds of the national average, so pretty low. But violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime is about one third of the national average. So real fucking low here, very, very low. That said, let's talk about a horrible murder.

Somebody didn't care. Let's do it here. Now, this is a case. Well, couple of them, because we have to tell you, this is one where it's gets a roller coaster with two loops. You're going to go through the first loop and be like, that was quite the loop. Watch out, because this is another one coming right there. Make sure you're not, you know. Yeah. Don't don't don't start eating a tuna sandwich in the middle of it.

Put it that way. Oh, Jesus. That's coming up. So watch out here. Let's talk about it a little bit. Let's talk about a couple of people. First, let's talk about a young lady, first of all here. Let's talk about a young lady named Cara Caracara, Cara Lamphere. We'll talk about now Cara. Her original name is Nomi and so am I. Yeah, that's her original name.

But she changed it because she has quite the childhood in quite the past. She's born in Bangladesh. Yeah. First of all, so right away, a very, very poor country. And she is extremely poor. She basically grew up in a very abusive home in Bangladesh where that was considered fine at the time. Bangladeshi natives or was this like a you know, where she where she grew up? You like an Air Force? No, no, no.

She's a she's a native Bangladeshi woman. And so that's just what their culture, family I mean, it's just about beating each other. It was a rural area and it wasn't I don't I'm not going to talk about the Bangladeshi culture as a whole, but it was it was a rural area and it was and especially she was born in nineteen seventy one ish. We don't know because there's some age questions with her. But she like whether she was.

Yeah. No I think it's back then you could beat the shit out of your kids in America in the middle of the street. Nobody cared. So I imagine in Bangladesh you could probably do it very easy. So who knows.

But is she her home was so abusive in Bangladesh that she ran away at the age of ten. Wow. To India. Oh, to another country. That's how abusive her parents were. Holy shit. She can go to the end of the street and hide in the tree house. She went to fucking India. I mean, that's that's the equivalent of if you were beating your kids so bad they ran to Vancouver. That would be a lot. Yeah, right.

You'd be like, whoa, I really fucked up. They ran across the border. I beat them Canadians. I beat that kid Canadian. I beat them friendly. Look at that. So you're welcome, brother. You have a much better life. Enjoy.

So he he she ends up being a homeless in Calcutta at ten. Oh Jesus.

So that's imagine my life there what this girl went through and then she ended up in jail at the age of ten in Calcutta for whatever she was doing on the street to survive. I mean, at ten it's not like you can go out and get a job at an office. I can type 60 words a minute like you're ten. You can't just walk in and be like, this is what I bring to the table. Yeah. Hi, I'm ten and I don't speak your language.

Can I have a job? That's what I bring to the table what I got going on here. So I'm ten.

I don't have whatever immigration paperwork is required, but I would love to be here. This sounds great, right? But I do. This is so she's goes from being in a Calcutta jail to being put up for somehow she ends up up for adoption. Basically, I don't know. There's a woman named Anna Lamphere who are Lapua Lamp for who is turns out to be her adoptive mother. She's a social worker in Salt Lake City. So I don't know if she because she's a social worker, has access to knowing about some sort of network of MLS is for adoptive.

Yeah, there's some sort of an Amber Alert for there's a ten year old in a Calcutta jail in the market. And one of them, I don't know how it works, but she fits your parameters. She found one. Yeah, she's doing a little search for her. Oh, there's one ten perfect's. Right. Just that I'm looking for a beauty. Oh, boy. She's so abused. She ran to Calcutta. This is what I'm looking for.

But no, that's a nice woman who wants to unbelievable. Take in a ten year old who's had a people are worried whether they adopt kids that they don't know like and they adopt an older kid. Any kid could be five. And they're like, well, I don't know what he's been through. They've seen Dexter and they're like, oh, Jesus, who knows?

At ten? It's at ten. That shit is simple, especially, you know what, they've been through horrible abuse and a Calcutta prison and fucking living on the streets. Right. That kid has got my ten year old son boiled and she's a bitch. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah, I'm terrified of. Trees are great, right? And she's still an asshole. So Mirdamadi yells at me like she's your fucking parole officer, Jimmy Wesselmann pee in this cup, Jimmy West and I've been nice to be in a better a free meal.

God damn it, you're on something. So soap and toothpaste and shit. She's not homeless. So this woman decides she's going to adopt young Noami and fly her to Salt Lake City where she becomes Karar. That's an expensive flight. That's just Bangladesh to Salt Lake. It's not a nonstop day. There's going to be a few stops. You're going to stop all over the got to refuel that thing. There's a plane where you're going to be sitting with, like, chickens and shit at some point, like you are going to check in and like all to get you to the real plane.

Yeah. You're sitting on like a crate, right, with the chicken running on your Amazon boxes.

Yeah, she's. Oh, this is my this is my my adopted mother this year. I says I'll just take it with me, I'll put it in my backpack and just take it. I'm sure in it it'll be it's fine. It's probably a Bluetooth or something.

It's those things that go on the end of corn. What's corn. She's going to be jacked about these I'm sure to at least look like corn. So I don't like the ones that don't. It should look like a corn on the cob when you put it in the ends of corn flakes is it makes it much better for me. I can't I didn't even sarabi corn a while back and I wouldn't eat it because we didn't have corn holder things. I'm like, I don't want them without the corn holders.

I want you to take a fork and you jam it now and you cut it off.

What I ended up doing is jabbing a fork in each hand it like that, same way. But I that was only for that day because the next day I had corn holder things I ordered up on Amazon. These will be here tomorrow. They work. They were here the next fucking day. It's like, boom, take that four dollars. I have like forty of these things now. Awesome. So I flew home here with chickens. Yeah.

And children and abused Bangladeshi children. So this poor young girl here is taken here and when she gets here right away, her mom notices that she she's got some problems. I mean, she doesn't come in and everything's happy. And how can it be? She's got issues that aren't haven't been worked out, even if she feels safe.

She's so far from home this year and so far from home. This is culture shock.

Like nothing, dude, I couldn't move to Utah. The culture shock for me would be overwhelming. You moving to Utah miles away. And it's yeah, it's it's right there. It's like, fuck. And it's literally sort of connected by the corner to the state like we could an hour. Twenty flight. It's super fast. I could never live and know if it's a nice place and people are nice there and everything, but it's just too different for me.

Like I couldn't live there. So I don't I can't imagine if you came from Bangladesh and Calcutta how fucking different it would be. First of all, what is it? Ninety seven percent of the state is blonde, which is a right away you're going to stand out if you're, you know, nineteen eighty one and you're from Bangladesh in eighty one. The Mormon Church just started saying like the year before or two years before that black people weren't evil, weren't being punished with pigment for their, you know, seeing caste.

Yeah. They just finally were like no no no. We, we would like them to well they can try to throw.

Oh shit. They well we owe black people are getting better jobs now this is. Oh look at this.

Look at what. They're not so bad. Look, you know, when did the jazz get there. That's what I would like to know.

When the basketball team, as soon as the basketball team got there, they're like, you know, that's a fucking bad garbage loans making like eight million dollars a year.

We could get people seem to like it when he puts his hand behind his head and puts the ball through. That's all I kind of dig.

It carries mom said, quote, When I got when I got her here, she was obviously a very angry kid. She had lived on the streets and she was very independent and didn't take instruction. Well, yeah. Yeah. Because she's used to living on her own and on the streets at and so apparently she had some problems legally in the juvenile system for shoplifting or small items from stores, candy and makeup and shit like that. And how you do it over there, that's what it is.

And it's a I mean, there's a lot of kids here that have plenty that do shit like that. So they're just lashing out. But for her, A, it's how she was used to living and being. She's also trying to exert her independence as well. So she gets kind of, you know, in trouble here and there. And then when she's fifteen, she kind of gets in more trouble. Not at the time, but she meets a boy here who's about four years older than her dirty dancing trouble.

Kind of. Yeah, well, no, not like that. You know, not not neat Jerry Orbach to come and fucking bring and bring your little black bag trouble. We don't need that. None of that shit. Right.

So, I mean, he they they they meet at a mall. She meets a boy who's like nineteen when she's fifteen at the mall in Salt Lake and they become an instant item. Instant item here. The mother calls it, quote, some enchanted evening syndrome, like she met this boy and was instantly just. In love and taken, you know, just taken over by him, basically touching the law calls it illegal. Yeah, 19 and 15.

It's terrible. That is that sounds terrible, but I don't know, there you could probably marry a 15 year old. I'm not sure. I don't know. Well, I don't know if it's Alabama or not. I don't think they probably want you to be 18. I think they do. They're they they value education. Probably have to get out of school first, mission first, and then within six months they require an admission and they got yeah.

They need to do that to see how that works.

The standard Heimann check, they do that at roadblocks. They're they just cops do that on the side of the road to a registration and and it's a standard registration. Heimann check. Ma'am, I understand the problem. What's this is a field sobriety. No, no, no, no. Get out and bend over.

SNAP what? For Christ's sake, I know you haven't been drinking the beers one point two percent. You'd be pissed right now if you were drunk because you'd have had to drink so much of it. You'd have to, you know, ran from the car to pee. So I assume you're not drunk.

We've made it chemically impossible for you to get drunk. Pretty cool. So get out and bend over. Yeah, let's go. There's a there's a screen in there. Let's see what's going on there. I'm going to see what you got going on. Let's make sure the locks on the screen door. That's all we're saying. Let's see the mucus screen, make sure the latch is still attached. So right now, we said a bunch of disgusting things.

Well, I don't now we're sort of just making fun of the church is rather insensitive to women. So it's it's not us saying it's you know what? That's not offensive unless you're in a Mormon church official and then feel free to be offended by it and contact us and we'll tell you to eat dicks and go ahead and also contact us. If you've actually done a hymen check, please, God. Oh, God, no, we don't. Don't.

That's just too depressing. I don't want to know about it. I know who you are and I'm sending the police to you. Right. To help you. So she meets the boy she meets is John Edwards, Sansing, HRC and Angie Sansing. He is born in nineteen sixty seven. So February of sixty seven. He's about four years older than her. Hish because we don't know her exact age. She could be a couple of years older than she says she is.

We're not positive because apparently the records in rural Bangladesh for births in the 60s and early 70s weren't terrific. Probably classified under. Yeah. Now Sansing here, John, he is known as a kid. His nickname is Cotton Top. His parents call him. He's a very light kind of gingery kind of dude, that kind of cat. He's a little guy. He's about five, six. She's about five foot tall, thin and little, and he's about five foot six.

So they're they're breeding downward. A cute little it's a cute little tiny couple here. So his early years here, he's had some issues as well. His early years were spent in Alabama. So he went from Alabama to Utah. Yeah. So he only knows religious fundamentalism, knows nothing else in his fucking world here. It's the only thing he's ever been exposed to. And brimstone or potato salad on Sunday. That's it. With no salt. Right.

Potato salad. And don't forget the fucking salt and pepper because you're going to need it for your mom and dad fights over it. Yeah. Sober fighting. No excuses, nothing. No excuses yet in the wake of a couple too many. I'm so sorry. I called your mom that stoned, sober watch like 90 day fiance.

Say most of the arguments like the next day, they're like, I had a couple too many to drink and I got carried away and like, oh, that's understandable. Me too. And I got out of hand. If you're this stoned, sober, there's no excuses. You just wake up, open your eyes and look at each other like I still feel exactly the same because I wasn't fucked up at all when I thought about it the first time.

So it just never goes away. I can't even have coffee to try to this day, God dammit. I think they allow caffeine now. I thought they did. Oh, I thought they did. I don't know, I, I've never heard that one. They adjust really to whatever like caffeine. They're like the Starbucks is fucking right. We're talking about we love Starbucks but Pepsi Cola is rushing because of them. Right. I'm not because of that.

But that point, it's based out of there. Invested by. Yeah, because it's well, it's based there there's innovation in New York, too. And I'm just saying, if a church has interest in your product selling. Yeah. I don't know. That's not true. I don't know if it's true or not. But I know they expanded their in the church has been kind of OK with it. I think Pepsi you might have might have ties to better.

So now John here Sansing, his parents were divorced, his mother stayed in Alabama and his father moved to Salt Lake City. Yeah. And just he's like, shit, who do you want to live with?

Fucking neither. Neither of you. Christ, can somebody move somewhere on Antin? At least Florida somewhere. Yeah, let's move. Atlanta or something else, stay in the south, so the relative said, quote, she finally gave up on him and shipped him out to her, to his father in nineteen eighty four. He was a thief and a drug addict. And even at that time, she couldn't keep him out of juvenile detention. She was hoping that she could get him away from his criminal behavior with his dad in Utah.

But that didn't happen.

I'd like to know what they call a fucking drug addict, though. That's what I mean. Yeah, smoking weed, probably smoking weed, drinking cheap wine or something. Drinking Maddog 20, 20 and smoking weed. But yeah, no, he gets into hard drugs pretty fast. By the time he's in Utah, he picks up pretty good drug habits and eighty four when he moved there. That's right. When he met Karita so he moved there, meets her right away and they kind of fall into a real real Bonnie and Clyde type of relationship here.

Big time. This is more like, more like natural born killers actually radically the way they are. Yeah. Like the way you hear about these two, they're they're very fucking interesting. They talk about how he basically had no relationship with his biological father until he moved to Utah and then they didn't get along very well. He drops out of high school, had shitty grades, which we see a lot in here, and he's had problems and everything, too.

So maybe high school isn't his major, major concern. As we've all known, kids like that always into drugs, though, from fourteen fifteen. Anything he could get his hands on, really. Anything, weed, coke, this that I'll do heroin. He doesn't give a shit. Whatever he can get his hands on, he'll do just likes drugs. So I don't know what, what he's trying to dull here but wow. Is he trying hard.

Yeah. It doesn't sound like a drug addict. It sounds like somebody that just doesn't like whatever has happened around him. Yeah, he's very enthusiastic for drugs. Also, though, he's also he gets very addicted to these drugs very quickly. So we don't know if he's got an alcoholism problem in his family and he's kind of already open to that sort of shit to addiction. You know, if you're physically his brain is kind of wired that way. We're not sure for this sort of thing.

Yeah. So I love he's a thief and a drug addict and the relative says there. So he received probationary sentences multiple times. He got probation. Nineteen eighty five. He was convicted for burglary in Salt Lake. In eighty seven, he was convicted for spousal abuse after he was married. Cara and started beating the crap out of her. Yeah he they got married pretty early obviously and started beating the shit out of her immediately. Well they did drugs together and they both behi and they get in fights.

She's arrested at one point for hitting him in the head with a frying pan. So they're arrested multiple times for beating each other up and fighting. And they they get they smoke crack together. And then they come down and they start fighting and they they fight each other all the time. That's what happens. You ever seen if you live in like a city, have you ever seen obvious crackheads screaming at each other in the streets? That's yeah. That's hard.

It's a hard life to have. It's hard enough to maintain a relationship with if you're both trying to figure out how to get crack next or else you're, you know, jittery, that's even worse. I get hit and people with stuff like I can see it happening in an hour. Yeah. Put up a pan. Yeah.

Well, she said he hit her and then she responded with a frying pan to the had to stop defending yourself. That's trying to that's that's, that's. Yeah. But if you've been beat up a whole bunch of times by someone who's bigger than you and that's I mean I'm not physically you can't fight back and you got a frying pan bang that stops that and of assault. You know me any more today.

I don't ever want to. You know, I would never hit anybody. That's right. Either I'd be afraid of Fracture's gonna kill somebody. What if I was in a position of being abused all the time? I might have a different I might be fighting for my life. And this is a person who she grew up on the streets in Calcutta. She's she fights for her life like she's got to she's hit somebody with a dog before. That's. Yeah.

Just picked her right up by the fucking head and just whacked somebody to go and beat them and toss the corpse, the dog corpse on top of them and spit something dog that's like Pache hairless Folies.

You could drop a couple of scene outside. I'm like Sonny Corleone. It'd be even better. I'd have money. But I have spent and I've spent. So yeah. Eighty-seven for spousal abuse. Nineteen ninety three. He's also convicted for aggravated assault, so we can definitely see an escalation here. There was a second degree felony burglary charge in there in the late eighties. And for that one, the judge sent him to prison for a diagnostic evaluation that lasted for forty five days to see whether they should what they should do with him.

Basically, should they sentence him to this sentence in the adult prison, juvenile jail, probation, a lot of options. And they they get the results of this. The judge sentences him to probation after he's been in there for forty five days. So he does that also. He's got aggravated assault, spousal abuse, two different burglary convictions. He's got a lot going on.

They're not keeping track of this. He's like a young guy. That's the thing, is burglary, burglary is bad, and then when you escalate that to aggravated assault, you're talking about your burglarizing and you're willing to use violence to. So who knows if you if anyone ever puts those two things together, it's fucking chocolate and peanut butter. They're going to be the world's in trouble. Yeah. Yeah. It's violence and burglary go together. Well, for people who don't give a shit about a guy that comes out from the Cheshire murders, he did that shit where he was just burglarized.

And then he puts a lot of people out and he was like, that's easier that he's like, well, that's easier. I don't have to make sure they're not home now. I can just hit them all. Fuck, I'll just kill him. It's it's that's the escalation here. So it's weird. Man Kara's sister says that her adoptive sister, who knows her very well and talked to her a lot and everything, she says that she was kind of kind of open for a kind of a violent, controlling person that's kind of in her culture.

That's what she grew up kind of seeing in her family. And that was kind of the thing her sister says, quote, And this is not me saying it. This is her sister talking about talking to her about it.

So someone who knows something, quote, In the East Indian culture, the husband is the one in charge who is always right and can even tell the wife to kill herself if she didn't bring enough dowry. She was definitely of that culture. She wouldn't leave him despite all the abuse. So her sister says this is she doesn't have an American woman mindset. She has a Bangladeshi woman mindset like from childhood still, even though she's being told that you don't have to put up with this stuff, that's it's it's ingrained in her brain like that, which is hard to break.

Yeah, especially I mean, she luckily doesn't have contact with her family over there, but even they would put pressure on her. My grandmother, Italian grandma, when she divorced my grandfather originally, she people fucking came from Italy to try to convince her to not get a divorce like it was they were it was a fucking scandal. People flew over an ocean to try to talk sense into her to the point where she had to leave with her kids to move to California to get away from everybody for six months because they were people were bothering her so much to not get a divorce.

Culture matters. Just let them beat the shit out of you and be drunk all the time. What do you care? Like, you know, you have a nice home. Who cares? That was the basic premise of the whole thing. So culture is a big deal. Culture is a big deal. And I said that's that culture. I don't know what what the Bangladeshi culture is, but it sounds worse in terms of that, you know, for women anyway.

So they encourage you.

He can tell her to kill herself. She doesn't bring enough down enough dowry, that's what. So bring enough dowry so that I understand because your dad pays that right. You would know. You pay that. You buy her from the parents. You have to pay dowry. The parents don't pay yet. You pay a dowry to the parents for the one.

Oh yeah. Yeah I'm thinking so family paying you to marry her. Why would you kill her if you didn't have to pay a lot for her. I don't understand that. Is it is it the opposite? There were the family pays you to take this pain in the ass off their hand. I don't know. I know in like Thailand it's it's that's you pay for the woman, you pay the woman's family. And all of these cultures in African cultures, it's like that dowry.

Yeah, I don't know. So once again, I know all this from what. Yeah. 90 day fiance. It's the only fucking knowledge of culture I have any any a bit of. So now the sister said that she called the State Department of Child Protective Services in Utah many times about all the violence and nothing was done about it because this was when she was still underage but married. So she would call about that. She says the sister says, I also got involved with a program called Women in Jeopardy, but that lasted all of 30 minutes.

When John found out, found out and she checked her out, that was that. So she said there was so much abuse that, you know, like I said, she would be arrested sometimes also because the fights would get so crazy. One of the instances was knocking him out with a frying pan. And, you know, people saw that call the cops. That noise must have been great, though.

That must have been awesome.

Imagine for her the satisfaction of doing OK.

Was it cast iron or was it like a plastic rubber handle?

You know, I mean, we get like sort of shitty a cast iron is good because it's big, but she'd have a hard time swinging that thing so little. You want like one of those like Teflon ones, you can whip fast. You could be like a pop. You could fucking crush somebody with one of those rock. It's kind of like they say when you hit somebody with a baseball bat. Yes. If you're defensive, you want to hit them with the handle.

And because it's you can whip it harder, you don't want to get denser. Well, you don't have to take such a big swing if you want it. If you have something that you wanted to bash with it, obviously the best way is to hold it by the handle. But if you're worried about, you know, somebody attacking you, the best way is to be able to have most control over it. Yeah. So it's like choking up on it the opposite way.

Like a little ball at the end. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck man, that seems like it would hurt.

That would hurt. And then you can flip it around over. These are things you're taught as a child. So now in the mid 1980s here. Nineteen ninety. Eighty six, to be exact, Kara was pregnant with their first child, she's 16, which is why they got married, which is why she was allowed to marry him because she's already pregnant anyway and they moved in with her sister. OK. OK, I guess he didn't want to live with the parents.

Her or the other sister says, quote, He stole my sister's purse from the kitchen table and they went around that the city taking money from ATMs. I had a friend who was a social worker and she told me that he should have been locked up way back then. Wow.

So, yeah, as kids with twenty one, he's like bout with a 16 year old in American life called a loser. That's a loser. A 16 year old pregnant wife. Right. And he's stealing from that woman's sister who's letting them stay there to go take money out of ATMs. This is this is some trashy shit right here that this this guy is pure trash. Now he ended up having a series of jobs where he would get fired for always get fired for stealing from his employers, basically.

And Kara would get fired, too, because he would make her steal from her employers as well. So they went through tons of jobs where they got fired for stealing from the register. And shit like that was just short sighted.

And they're on drugs, both of them. They're into drugs. So they need cash. That's the cash now will fix everything and we'll worry about the consequences later. Yeah, that's it. The like like what's his name said here this week on crime and sports. Like Michael Doc said, the past is the past.

The past is the present. What is it? Well, it's the past is the past. The future isn't here yet. And the present is linguine and clam sauce. You know what I'm saying?

That's the part that's just not here yet. And there's still about forty bucks in for it.

Yeah, I still got a couple of crack rocks to smoke. So this is good smoking Utah crack. Oh boy. Do you think Utah water down like the beer.

That extra step on is ninety percent cocaine. Yeah it's nine thousand ninety six point fucking baking soda. Ninety six point eight percent baking soda. Great.

Well that's I mean the coke, they have coke but you got to sniff like fucking three, eight balls to really get a buzz. I got to tell you, eventually you get it passed.

The blood that's screaming from all the starting you're going eventually coagulates that and then you're all better. You're stoned, you fuck up after that, you're all so clouded. So you find Jesus Christ.

So February nineteen ninety one. This is in Holladay, Utah. There's a woman named Lucille Miner Johnson and she is seventy eight years old and she's a tiny little lady. She's for eleven, one hundred and twenty two pounds. That's a little tiny old lady. Seventy eight years old. She's a little tiny church lady. Yeah. And this is what you would just picture of her. She's the sweetest looking old lady. There is a big smile. Yeah.

Looks like she just wants to help people. One of those people she's born in 1912. Oh boy. In Eureka, Utah. She's seen it all. She's seen it all. Yeah, she she married she married a guy named Howard Johnson and supported him all.

He built a chain of hotels. It turned out he didn't just Howard Johnson is his name.

That started out as the family destination around America has now dwindled down to the truck stop, dwindle down to a truck stop with four flavors of ice cream rather than before. They were known for having like sixty flavors of ice cream and all. Nope. Now it's a piece of shit. So she married him on August. Twenty third. Nineteen thirty three. Good Lord. Married in nineteen thirty three. Think about that shit again. The depression is still lingering on.

That is while impossible for me. That's crazy.

She was a graduate of the LDS Business College and a former member of the exchange at the Salt Lake Exchange Club. Connoisseur of cardigans. Oh you know she was sweaters. This is my sweater, dear ones. No, not this sweater closet. I said not the regular clothes closet. So she was also president late in her life here at seventy eight, president of the Southern Utah Broadcasting Company, which which had a couple of different radio stations, and president of the Investment Center, which was a family investment real estate group.

She's done well. She's doing what she's done well for herself. She's a very prominent active member of the LDS church. She is big in the Relief Society and all of this shit, she just she loves to help people. She's big into charity, big into the church. She just kind of dedicates her older life to that nice lady, this Lucille, her husband, Howard, here. He dies on August 5th. Nineteen eighty nine. So, you know, he dies here he was.

And I think he was in his late seventies also. She as of nineteen ninety one February, nineteen ninety one to be exact here, February 1st, nineteen ninety one, she's seen sweeping off her porch so people have to see her. She waves to her neighbors, friendly old lady. But then later on that night her family tried to reach her and couldn't couldn't get a hold of her. So her daughter Shirley went to her house, which was forty to eighty four South Hollaway drive in holiday and the next day.

And she found something horrific here. She walked in to find her mother bloody, battered and dead in the front hallway right by the entryway with her face covered with a pillow around the porch look spotless. And it was spectacular. Except not exactly because we'll find out. There's a couple. She's a meticulous housekeeper. Apparently she she'll sleep reports twice a day, vacuum's her house constantly. She's a meticulous housekeeper. It's the carpet breaks that I get to want to really puff it up there.

She's really, really meticulous. And we'll find out something that was found that's out of character for her because there was something on the porch that wouldn't have been there if she was sweeping. Put it that way, it wouldn't have been there. She wouldn't have missed it. Sweeping, we'll say here. So she's found there. She's found there. She is, of course, dead. She's been strangled. But that's not all that. It's crime.

It's bad she's not sexually assaulted. They do find that she's thank fuck nobody sexually assaulted this poor woman. But I still went way too far above. Yeah, they strangled her. She suffered a fractured skull. Twenty four broken ribs.

Oh, my. How many do you have?

Twenty twenty four broken ribs that is just beating all over the place and received what they called numerous blows to the head to cause skull fractures. Now this is this. I've said it before, I said it recently. This is this one is particularly sensitive because the way it went down is very similar to the way my great grandmother was murdered. Exact same way a nice old lady, someone knocks on their door asking for help. They let them in to try to help them.

And this person then robs them and murders them in their own home. And like I said, that's exactly what happened. This lady, I want to say better or worse, but I feel like she had it a little better than my great grandmother, who was tied up and beaten and had her throat slit. I think that's worse, probably. I think just the tied up part is terrible not to not to pass fucking whatever, but be too specific.

But your grandma probably bled out and drowned. You know, that's the way to die. That is bad.

Yeah. For an old lady like that. So it's very fucking sad here. This one, she was strangled, which is also horrific. I'm not trying to say this is less horrific.

I'm just trying to near there, similar in age and everything else. It's just it's stuck in my head. So weird thing about this crime scene. In addition to her being dead for no reason, obviously, is the fact that there's blood everywhere. They find blood all over the place on the walls here. They're all over, but the rest of the house is meticulously maintained. Everything looks like it's been picked up and perfectly cleaned, except they find Legos all over the place.

They find Legos scattered all around the corpse, all around this woman's body. In the living room, they find a Lego out on the porch, which is not consistent with her sweeping. You know, she would have swept a Lego up. You'd see a Lego. They found Legos out in the yard as well. A couple of Legos. There's a bunch of Legos. Besides that, there's nothing they have no evidence besides blood or and that's it.

So the Lego set, it came to life and beat her to death. That's possibly had somebody beat her to death with a Lego baby. They made a Lego Club and just attacked her with it.

Didn't have any forethought there. And then all this comes apart. Oh, shit. God damn it. Holding the handle, falling apart. So, yeah, they found that just inside on the driveway, they found Legos. That was the weird part, like a trail of Legos, which is strange just inside the entryway. Now they learn from her family that her grandchildren do come over and they play with Legos. Every kid my son loves Legos for however many years for the last 40 years, all kids love Legos.

They're just listen, I'm thirty nine. I love life. They're fun. They're really cool. So they her daughters and her children say, though, yeah, the kids go there and they play Legos and stuff, but she would never have left Legos out. Like there's just no way she's leaving out a bunch of Legos. Not this many in the living room and on the porch, she swept the porch. Everybody starts sweeping the porch. Why would there be Legos on the porch if my kid wasn't there between the sweeping and when she's found?

So how is that possible? Attacked by a daycare? That's what it has. So they mean they collect them as evidence. But the detectives really kind of don't that's kind of an afterthought. They don't even really think about it because, yes, the kids are so she's meticulous and all that. But, you know, people say, who knows, she left some Legos on the floor. Maybe that day she's seventy eight. Maybe she was tired or slipping or and her kids don't want to say.

But they're not going to go, oh, all the Legos are the crux of the whole case because her daughter says she cleans up really well, like that's that's not evidence in a Lego land. Well, look at you. You put those together pretty quick. Look for the assemblers at the Lego store. So the main thing they worry about is they notice and they learn that she always wore a particular ring and necklace, never did not wear them every time, always on her Always-On or got up, put it on, take it off before she went to bed, that sort of thing.

And both of them were missing from the home. So that's what they were concentrated on because that's something they can maybe track and possibly help find a murderer on. So, yeah, they learn all of that. They they learn about the necklace. They work the case pretty hard here. There. I mean, it's it's it's a pretty unknown thing. It's an older lady beaten severely in her home. There's a lot of public pressure. The church is a nightmare.

Yeah, the church is there. She's got she's a member of a church with a lot of you know, she's got a lot of friends and a lot of family and a lot of people who care about her. So they're saying, find who killed our fucking mother and grandmother and friend, please. This isn't just some, you know, some lady they found in an alley who you have drank herself to death or something and was homeless. This is so whoever would do this is a fucking monster.

That's the other thing. This is a horrific rest of society is not safe.

Yeah, exactly. And also, they said several items are reported missing besides the ring in the necklace. There's no evidence of forced entry, but there is evidence of a fight being put up. She did not go quietly or easily. She put up a fight. What's good for her, man? I mean, seventy eight and four. Eleven. And she didn't give a shit. She's trying the the police officer said there were some evidence that a struggle took place.

It looked like she tried to fend off her attacker. But she's a very fragile and small woman. Yeah, she's fucking seventy eight here, so it's awful. They work it for a while. Like I said, the Legos go in the back of the evidence container. They think that's probably just her grandkids. You know, nothing big happening here. They look for a little while. Her son says that her son's name is Jerry Johnson. He says that he heard about it on the radio, which is a horrible way to hear about it at all.

He said that he was driving home from Cedar City. He heard his mother's address announced on the radio. Now, when he went, that's my mother's address and he didn't eat. He said he didn't hear what happened at the address. He just heard the address at the end of a thing. He didn't hear what happened beforehand. So he said that quote, quote, he said he then heard a voice saying, quote, She's with me. The voice told him that his mother was all right.

So he says God spoke to him in the car, telling him that his mother was gone and find she's dead, but she's OK. This is before she knew she was dead.

You wouldn't even shout back. That's not OK with me. Not OK. I'm not happy about this with your creepy fuck. It's OK with who? Who. Yeah. Is that. Who the hell is that. Yeah, she's with me. She's all right. I'm not all right. No, she'd be better off here. He says quote, I had just had a very peaceful feeling come over me that peace has been with me ever since.

So that is motherfucker's religious. Yeah. That's some serious religion. Do it. He's practicing what he's preaching. He's like most people might say that then when their mother gets killed, they're like, I'll rip your fucking thrown out and cut his balls off and shove it up your mother's cunt. And you know what I mean. They'd lose their fucking mind. But he's just like she's OK and I'm fine with it. Wow. That's something, man. Now, police have suspects that they're looking for here.

They are looking for a male Caucasian and a black male four years old for the question.

Yeah. Yeah. So they're looking for. Yeah. Black guy and a white guy in the questioning here. They said that they were seen around the neighborhood. So a team of detectives look into this whole thing. They said two men with that description were spotted leaving the Smiths Food and drug store a little bit after the last time she was seen, which is nearby. The men were heading southbound in a red Ford Mustang convertible with a white top. And it was APB.

I'm black guy and white guy in Mustang. There are guys. They find the two guys. Yeah. Turns out they weren't doing shit. Complete mistake. They were just soliciting for a new restaurant. They just opened together. So they were going door to door, handing out flyers for discounts and coupons for their brand new restaurant. They didn't even run into her. And yeah, they didn't do shit.

These guys were like, holy fuck, because they, like, heard about it. They they ended up talking to the police because they saw the car and they saw their descriptions and they were like, that's all they're talking about. They think we killed this fucking lady, which I can't tell if that's terrible publicity for their new restaurant or amazing publicity for their new restaurant. Any publicity is good.

I'm saying they said that they were they were asking people to try the New Mexican restaurant they were opening and the sheriff said. They're definitely not suspects, but they do have a hell of a lot of light that you should go over their Spanish rice is not top tier. They'll try their virgin margaritas. Yeah, that's fucking great.

And they said that they're not looking for them anymore. The sheriff said, quote, We're not looking for a red Mustang anymore either. I just wish we had some leads and we didn't say that. And we just left that out. And they continue to wish they had leads because this case goes completely cold and that's that. They never they never got more on that later. But this case goes cold for at least the decade of the 90s. We'll talk about the family sits there has no resolution.

It's brutal. Yeah.

So back to Cara and John now early nineteen ninety six, they moved to Phoenix where everybody comes to when they've run out of the line somewhere else, it's becoming like fucking Alaska here where it's like you've come here to run from something or hide from something or like to rebuild your life because you completely fucking mangled it where you're from and you've heard it's cheap and you heard it's cheap and it's not. And it's like it doesn't rain. I hate rain. I don't want to shovel anymore.

Right. And then you're stuck here with us. Oh, my God, it's hot.

And I'm still I don't have any money and I'm screaming at you in traffic because you can't drive on a freeway because you're an asshole and you're from fucking Wisconsin and you shouldn't be here.

And then I finally get my my car cooled down and then I have to get the fuck out of it. Yeah. And it's going to get worse.

So they move here and right away they need help. They go to churches for help. Basically chikin no churches like all all different churches. They at this point have four children that they are aware that they're traveling with you and yeah, for four children. So they started out with the one in eighty six. And since then, in ten years they've had another for another three. So it's three boys and a girl they have here and they end up getting help from a church, the Emanuel Bible Church on what.

Sixty sixty. Seventeen East Greenway Road. Yeah that's a in high school over there. Yeah. So I there pastor there. Dick fellahs. Yeah. How are you doing here.

Deqi Fellers that is a fascinating place that they got to being down on their luck. Yeah. To fucking Scotsdale by that fancy school that not not horizon fancy elementary school on the north side. Private school. Yeah. Big White and it looks like it looks like a little White House. Yes. People dropping off their little fucking shitty six year olds and they're fucking aquamarine polo shirts to go in there. There you go, sonny boy.

The fucking rose go down on the side. Schussing, absolutely disgusting.

So they end up going there for disgusting, disgusting, you fucking rich. Look at her open with the door open for us to run. That's the greatest line on American dad. Look at it. Pupping with the tar up and disgusting. It's the aliens. Yeah, disgusting. She's he's talking about a doll at a dollhouse. And because she opened with the door open, disgusting. She doesn't know it. But see those two little suitcases over there?

Those are mine. They're packed up and I'm ready to go. Oh, boy, oh, boy. So come out. That's a great cartoon. It's one of those where you would think it would be like an accordion for old people. It's just really subversive and hilarious and weird. And they go to our fantastic gay alien is just the greatest thing in the world.

So fish. That sucks. Yeah. That that's going take it or leave. But Roger is the best thing. Steve really grows on you after a while to Steve's. What did you like. That's fucking hilarious. Supposed to be likable. Yeah. It's like um grows on you. So after a while here these two need to find a place to live. And there they received some assistance from the church and finding an apartment in Peoria. Oh, over on the west side.

That's a Phoenix. That's right. For that check from the church to get. Yeah, it's probably just cheap, you assume, over there, because I know some I used to serve papers over there and there's some complexes in Peoria where it would be like, okay, I got my one box cutter, I got my other box cutter and head on a swivel, let's do this shit. It's fucking dangerous off of Grand Avenue. Yeah, I wanna do some shit like that.

Now, at this point in their life, we haven't talked about them in a while. We don't know what they've been up to since they were having kids and hitting each other with frying pans being on drugs. Yeah. Ten years ago. Well this is a ninety six there. They, they're in Peoria. The landlord over there, Carol Todd, she knows them well. She says, quote, He would smack his wife around a bit on.

She would come into the office crying. I would sit her down and talk it out about call the cops. She's getting the shit beaten out of her with four kids, so. She said that and a bunch of other people around the complex said that the kids, the three sons and a daughter that they had who are at this point are like, you know, between seven and 11, you know, just complete. They're just left to their own devices.

She's in an apartment complex.

Their parents are crackheads, so they don't really have a lot of supervision.

They said that they would scour the neighborhoods begging for food and asking people for money and even asking people to give them if they could have money so they could so their dad could get cigarettes.

He would send his kids out to bum cigarette money off of neighbors, which is I don't even know what the fuck to say about that. That's just I have no has. How do you not shame. Yeah, no pride.

Well, worse than that. How do you know I don't get it. This is rock bottom. Rock fucking bottom. That's it. I need help. Right. I need to stop what I'm doing in 96 cigarettes were two bucks. Yeah. You're one kids out to go get two dollars out here.

These Gisella's or whatever. Like a dollar. Twenty nine a pack or some shit. Absolutely. Yeah. You don't need to you could scrape up change all so. Yeah, it's gross. Also neighbor here, a woman named Diane said quote, The boys were little monsters running wild through the apartment complex. Another neighbor said the children would sometimes roam the neighborhood late at night without any supervision between seven and 11 just roaming the streets. And it's not a great neighborhood.

Peoria doesn't mean tough stuff. They're in a shit area and they're just letting their little children wander around aimlessly Carol.

Todd, again, the manager said, quote, Sansing and his wife really know the welfare circle. They know how to how to get this agency to pay the rent, this one to pay the lights in, this one to come up with the food, which if they needed, that would be good.

I want people to I don't want people to starve and not have places to live with their children so that those resources are. No, yeah. But they're crackheads that like to that know how to work the system and they know how to they know how to.

It's to maintain being a crackhead doesn't mean they have jobs, they work, they just spend their money on drugs and then they go to charitable places for things, for their kids and for food. And then they can go, we have no money for food and people will give them food money, but they can't buy the food first and then say, can we have Krak money from the church because they spend their money and then get the food from the church?

Usually I go, that's how it works. So, you know, you know, things are you know, we finance everything.

We've got the rent paid, the lights are on. Pretty sweet. We got water, everything but Christ, everything but the crack.

If only we could make them a little more for the health, then I wouldn't have time to smoke the crack that we need to rethink our strategy. So they need a new home at some point here. They want a new home. They get kicked out of a couple different apartment complexes for obvious reasons. Right?

So they contact Pastor Fowlers. They're from the church up on Greenway by Horizon there. So they contact him in November of ninety seven.

They contact him and oh my God, I'm running all over those neighborhoods at this time. Oh yeah. Yeah. You might have run into this guy here. Jesus. So he's asking for he asked them for food. For housing. Can you help us get a place. You know. Can you to help us. We're homeless at this point. They were homeless, just living in a car like they had nothing with four kids in Phoenix, which is not easy to be homeless in Phoenix.

I would not advise homelessness in Phoenix. No. Like there I've heard people say and like, this is funny because you hear people like that that don't read it, just talk shit. And I've heard people like, you know, in rural areas spout like, you know, California, that's all. They just love having the homeless people out there. And it's like homeless people go there because the fucking weather allows you to be homeless. Right. And not die.

Right. That's why they're there. Yeah, that's that's why they're there. I'll tell you what, if Nebraska was seventy four degrees year round with an ocean breeze, I'd be fucking packed with homeless people no matter how what you thought of them. That's the point. So people go where where the climate and where everything's better. Phoenix bad place to be homeless like Minneapolis. Right? Not a good place.

Outdoor living is a it's a mental. You can do it. We had over 50 days of hundred and 110 degree plus days here. You will die here.

If you're homeless, you can find them all the time. You know the where the ditches, where the water runs, the neath the concrete. They slide in those to try to cool off, to get away from the sun and sleep in there. And then they fucking die so hot as fuck. Yeah. It's a concrete box. Yeah. And you're going to get in there that's all.

That's fucking awful. Shovel man. This, this pastor wants to help them. He said quote, I had them in my home. They spent two nights. I never saw any violence or cruelty on their parts to each other or the kids. You're not going to beat your wife at the pastor's house. Turn around, Pastor. Wow. Jesus Christ. He says they got them into a house, as we'll talk about in a. Moment with assistance from the they have a service agency they work through that's like some charity thing that helps people try to find it's a it's a group that helps families with kids that are homeless, find housing, basically.

And a female worker said that. She said that they also she also help them. She helped Johnsen's and get a job, but he stopped going to work not too long after that. So that's how that works. In December of nineteen ninety seven, they are December 10th. Both of them are sentenced to probation for one year after pleading guilty to possession of marijuana and possession of drug paraphernalia charges in Phoenix. So that Christmas there, they said once they got the probation for that, they got put on probation.

They said that they were they started telling everybody that they're turning a new leaf. Yeah, they said totally new life. We're moving into a new home, new new life, new house, new fucking everything. No more drugs. We have found religion now for real. We're not just getting charity like we really believe in it. Now, we started going to church regularly with her kids. She called her mom up to tell her that, look, this is great.

She said her mom said, quote, She said, you would be so proud of me, said she was turning her life around and she for two weeks they'd been clean. And they feel great. Yeah, everything's fine. You don't. That's the thing about drug addicts. They don't turn everything around, get sober because of that. That's usually a everything's going fine and we do drugs so we can just keep doing good. Yeah. And then usually when everything's literally there's nowhere to go.

Yeah. Yeah. Generally turn it around if they ever turn up. If they ever turn around. Yeah. Because that's the thing. If let's say they get jobs and stuff and they're doing well and everything's great and they have a couple extra bucks, they're going to be like, well we can do drugs for one day. We're doing that's what happens. We do it just for one day. That's what people do. I can do it for one day.

Yeah, I can do it now. Now that I know why this is better, I can do for one day and then I can go back to being normal. And then a week later, when you're stealing money from your pastor, when you forget how expensive that one is. Yeah.

So here's another familiar location for you, Jimmy. The new home that they were put into is a house, not an apartment. It's a house in the 3800 block of West Allis Avenue.

Thirty, thirty Fifth Avenue in Peoria. Yeah, that's right. By Metro. Yeah. It's not that is not a good area. No, not a nice area, but it's a dangerous area we'll say especially late nineties. Yes. It's pretty dangerous over there. So just north of what does that Moon Valley High School. Yeah but Madison out of the nice area. Right. That's into the. Oh it's brutal. That's a thoroughfare wreck. It's everything is good.

It's so hot.

Oh my God. My cousin. Not a fucking tree to be seen on.

My cousin had it into a girl that lived there. I went to pick him up once and everything is concrete. It was ten degrees hotter than that in my house. I lived eight minutes away. It was ten degrees hotter.

The only shadows are from the fucking utility pole. Yeah, you got to like stand in the shadow. One of everybody as the rock front yards. No one has grass. It's just it's fucking brutal. So it is hot at this point. The kids are between nine and thirteen here. And so they're moving to this house, like we said in December and then February of this year, they things start to turn around a little bit, not for the best, as you might imagine, February 20th through 24th, basically of that year.

John has a they go through two thousand dollars worth of crack in four days. So I feel like somebody's got a two week paycheck and just bought crack with it, basically, or they both got their paychecks and just bought crack with it. So they spend like their third paycheck of the month, you know, when you get. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a freebie. There's no taxes out of it. That's a freebie baby who's a crack crack check.

So they spent in four days, they spent every dime they had and they traded everything they could for cash, for more drugs. They in four days they went from everything's great to spent all their money and sold everything they had for crack four days sunk it all turned it around quick.

Yeah.

A quick turnaround. Now, the next day, February 24th, he said that he had smoked some crack earlier in that afternoon, but they were out of crack and out of money and didn't know what to do. It's a rainy day, February twenty fourth nineteen ninety eight. And those are rainy, cold Phoenix winter days. That's the thing you don't get to. Phoenix is cold in the winter. Yeah, it's not like Utah snowy cold, but it's not it's not.

Eighty degrees in the winter. It's not comfortable. People think oh it's dry like San Diego. It's like one hundred but it's like one hundred and ten in the summer. But then it's like seventy eight in the winter. No no. It's like fifty two in the winter. It's fucking cold. So it'll be in the twenties at night sometimes. Yeah. The thirties. It's chilly and desert cold. It's fucking cold. That's the thing. Fifty here is different from New York.

Fifty New York fifty. You can have a. Fuckin t shirt in a windbreaker, 50 out here, you fucking parka, because it's dry and it cuts through you like a knife, it's brutal. So it's cold and rainy and whatever. So this day they have no more money left. And the kids, they have four kids that you need to feed. You know, kids tend to eat. Right. One thing about kids, they never stop eating.

Oh, boy. You figure you feed them on a Monday. They'd be good for a while like a snake. But they're not. They just need more food for two weeks. They just need more food and more food. It's ridiculous. There's never a bottomless pit. These fucking kids.

Remember, we got devil dogs shipped to us. Yeah, they're fucking gone. Oh, my God. Donate two boxes, please. Wow. One night.

And now he's a diabetic. Jimmy's. So we're going to start a fund to get Jimmy's son a prosthetic foot because he ate too much stuff in the morning wrappers.

He didn't even get them in the trash. Just open the pantry through the wrappers in, grabbed another cup. Oh, my God. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? And he goes, These are really good. Where do you get them? I'm like, Thank Christ. You can't get them.

The Northeast asshole. Not here. Those flew on a plane for you. Yeah, those pancakes are ridiculous. The Drakes pancakes. That's much better than the internments. Much better. I can eat them. I want to I want to add a whole box. Just stack them up and get a thick piece and fucking eat them all. So good that and the ring dings are wild surroundings with a with a glass of wine. James Tri-Valley. Oh boy I like that.

I know it's like dark chocolate. It's not, it's not necessarily dark and I hate dark chocolate but it's dark. Creates its own. It's like a devil's food. Right. That's what it is. It's the devil's food. But I mean the chocolate glaze array's. Yeah. It's like a darker chocolate. Yeah I'm not but it's not so sweet. Right. But it's not better with a glass of wine. I could see that. Oh boy.

So we're going to be doing a new podcast called Snack Cake Pairings where we are going to pair all sorts of snack cakes with different wines. We're going to discuss an end means coffee cake with a Bordeaux tomorrow.

So tune into that to our net pairs with the Twinkie. That's right. Holy shit. So on this on this day, February 24th of twenty or nineteen ninety eight, rainy day, John contacts the church, the Living Springs Church for food. He requests a they deliver food, they have boxes of food. They deliver to people. They still do their food bank. Yeah, lots of people do. But this is delivery. They actually do a service.

So this is free. Hello for us. Yeah. Basically free. Hello, fresh. So he recalls a request and they say that he gives us the church secretary, his name and his home address for delivery. They said they'll send somebody later in the afternoon. Now, after that, he calls his wife Cara, who's at work. Now she's at work. He calls her several times mainly to discuss how they can get more crack. So the phone keeps ringing while she's at work and she's got to talk about how do we get more crack later.

So I don't know what kind of production she had that day at work, but probably not much. Do we know what her job was? And I don't know what her job was or whatever it is, it's interrupted by a phone call who can get us correct by hook? How can we get crack? He did at one point call her back and said, I got some crack, I got twenty dollars worth of crack. I smoked some of the crack and I'm saving the rest of it for you when you get home.

That's a couple that they do a lot of things together. If they're, you know, I'll save you the crack for the rest of the crack. But that's nice. At least he's saving it for her. So she says that she could tell he had smoked crack from the sound of his voice already. She was happy. He was also he's jittery and everything else. She said she returned home from work a few hours later and he was not acting normal, is the way she put it.

Also, she said that he told her that he had called the church and arranged for delivery of some food. She got home about three twenty. That's when they smoked the rest of their crack. By the way, kids are home. So you smoke crack around the kids that smart kids are home here. And while they're there smoking crack, they discuss, OK, here's what we're going to do with the kids. It's them and their four kids in the living room.

And they're like whoever they send with this box of food, we're totally going to rob them. We're robbing this person. We need more crack money. So they're bringing you a box of food and you're going to rob them further.

They don't have the blue bag, the blue bank. There's not money. That's not a group grocery store.

It's free money. They have a personal stash here.

So they end up the church sends a woman named Elizabeth Calabrese Trute. Everybody calls her Trudi's forty one. OK, Calibrates is not her name. She married a Calabrese. So she's like a blonde or a woman. Her husband, though, I think is what's his name? Rosario. He's very Italian. So anyway, she is a mother of two children. She does volunteer work at the Living Springs Assembly of God there in El Mirage, El Mirage Road in Glendale.

She does lots of charity work. This is I love this, the local set here, we're off the site and it's like, oh, I've done like an electric company up there. The river bottom. That's a bad place. There you go now. Well, that's at any place it's going to be able to a charity church, one that's not there to make money, but to give stuff out. They're not going to be in a nice neighborhood.

Ninety seven. James. Yeah. During the housing boom, that area blew up, but it. Yeah, in 97, this shit was a desert. It was garbage out there.

This is it. Six hundred sixty five thirty two North El Mirage Road. Jesus. So anyway she is a 20, she's a retired 20 year Air Force medical technician. Luke Air Force is right there. Right there. She loves to do charity work. She's very religious and believes that through her religion, she should do charity work because that's kind of what religion is supposed to be. That's supposed to be, hey, let's gather and say how great we are, how shitty everyone else is.

On Sunday, while driving your fanciest, most waxed up car and wearing your best jewelry, it's supposed to be, I'll go give food to poor people. I think that's the point of it. But I don't know. That's just me.

So put on all the best shit we have and go to a building and thank the guy that gave it back. The guy that gave it. You gave it to us and tell him how humble we are.

Right. Check out my wife's new tits. Thank you. Thank you. I'm humble, humble and humble. So Trudi leaves the church in her truck at about four pm and arrives at the home parks in front of the house. And she has two boxes of food to bring in to him, which they have four kids. So that's nice. She goes in, she chats with Kara in the kitchen and everything. John goes and signs the receipt for the delivery and then she's still talking to care a little bit.

And she, you know, it's kind of, you know, edging toward the door. She's going to leave soon, right? Well, it's been nice. I hope, you know, contact us if you need anything and hope everything works out for you, where you live and all that sort of thing. As she's doing that, John comes up from behind her and grabs her and body slams her to the floor. Oh, my. Yeah.

As she prepared to leave, Cara would later say he, quote, grabbed her from behind and threw her to the floor. He restrained her by driving a knee into her back.

And, you know, from like this. Yeah, we know this technique here. At this point, he orders his son to go get him an extension cord. Oh, yeah. So his son follows orders and goes and gets an extension cord and gives it to him. And then both his children standing right there. He and his wife tie her up, bound her wrists and ankles together and everything, you know, with a fucking extension cord while the kids watch the whole time.

She's, of course, pleading with them to not do this. She's crying out, saying, Lord, please help me. She said at one point, I don't want to die. But if this is the way you want me to come, I'm ready. She says like that's how religious she is, though, that she's like, well, I mean, if this is it, then great, which is that's faith there. So anyway, she's repeatedly asking the children to call the police.

She's pleading. She's looking. Right. The kid's going to please call the police and the father is going to fucking touch that phone and the kids just sit there and don't do anything. They sit there and just let it happen because they're scared shitless of this man. I would assume. Imagine what they've seen him do. He's doing this to a stranger. Imagine what they've seen him do to his mother, to them, to their mother, to them.

I mean, they're fucking he's obviously scared the shit out of these kids. He then instructs them to shut up and go and watch TV, go watch cartoons. So he literally sends them into the living room, which they're there in the kitchen, sends them in the living room to watch TV, ignore this is happening. He then gets a club, a wooden club, and his son saw this, watched him beat her over the head several times with the club till it breaks into pieces, knocking her unconscious.

He took the pieces and washed them off and put them under the sink after that.

So he leaves her on the dining room floor unconscious and tied up with an extension cord and takes her keys and moves her truck to a parking lot of a strip mall nearby. So, you know, it's not drawing attention and then comes back in the house. Now, at some point before he returned, she regains consciousness, which is amazing because she's got skull fractures to here. Upon his return. He Jesus Christ, his wife is there. His kids are there.

He drags her into the bedroom after this. OK, Cara then watches him rape her.

Yeah. While she's hogtied so children can hear this. They're right in the next room. Door's open. This isn't like a private matter or anything while this is happening. Eventually he and we'll talk about this. She said that, you know, he took about fifteen minutes to subdue her at first for the whole took about fifteen minutes from body slam to dragging her in the bedroom is about fifteen minutes. She fought a lot in the beginning, and that's why you hit her with the club, he grabbed the club and apparently he told her, if you don't stop fighting, I'm going to hit you in the head.

And she tried to fucking struggle because, Jesus Christ, she's a human being. And so he hit her in the head. So then, yeah, they the he told the children not to call nine one one and all that sort of shit, which is wild. So he Jesus Christ, he ends up dragging her in there, he rapes her. He then stabs her three times. Now the wife, Cara says she saw him pushing the knife into her and grinding it hard.

Like, this is not robbery. This is not robbery. This is disgusting.

When he's done with everything, killing her and everything else, he throws a pile of clothes on top of her and leaves her on the bed for a while. The children saw that, too. They all saw her there. An hour later, he calls their drug dealer and get some crack. He takes her jewelry. We'll find out from an interesting source how much money she had on her. But he takes her jewelry and trades her a ring for some crack and then calls up another hour later, a different dealer and trades a necklace for some crack.

So. Yeah, you're out of shit. Yeah, and now what? You know what I mean. You've got a body during the attack, by the way, while he was sexually assaulting her, he put a sock in her mouth and put two plastic bags over her head and tied them with cords and a necktie to keep her quiet there. So think about that. How horrifying this fucking is absolutely fucking horrifying. The medical examiner says that she will later on say that she lived several minutes after being stabbed, suffering and bleeding out here.

Also said the blows to the head were substantial trauma, resulting in a tremendous amount of bleeding that would have caused unconsciousness and pain and cognitive problems, things like that, and then raped after that and then raped after that. That's fucking horrible. They found three stab wounds, that deep stab wound remeasured three and three quarter inches and formed a crisscross pattern, which is from twisting the knife, which is exactly what his wife said. The. Jesus Christ.

The wound struck both the colon and interior vena cava, causing hemorrhages within the abdominal cavity. That's why she bled for several minutes first. The other wounds penetrated her stomach, large intestine and kidney. So was brutal. The stab wounds would have caused pain and not resulted in immediate death. They did say after this, he they said right when he was done, he looked out the dining room window to make sure nobody was watching the house, nobody was looking for her or anything like that, you know, because he's cracky, too.

So he's all paranoid. He then took her jewelry off, covered with laundry, like we said, engaged in two different drug transactions and traded jewelry for crack. Later on in the evening, the pastor from the Living Springs Church called them looking for Trute, hey, where might Trudie be? And spoke to John. And he said that, no, no, you have the wrong address. My address is this. And she never showed up here.

So he's like, oh, she must have they must have got the address wrong. And she went to that other address, I don't know. But that's not my house. So that's a lie to them. The address I gave you, is it my address? Well, when they go look for your standing there. So that's that's not a great lie. Yeah, that's a that's a crackhead lie. That's a lie. That buys you an hour.

But that's not a lie that like that's a crack lie best. That's a crack lie. That's all. Still, listen, buy crack and feel good right this second. Yeah, that's right. That'll get me off the phone but that won't get me, you know, free freight. Exactly. So Jesus Christ said they never they never arrived. She's still in the bedroom under a pile of laundry at this point. So at that point, once it got dark outside, he then dragged Trudy from the bedroom to the back yard, OK.

And put her you know how a lot of a lot of houses out here have like like that shit metal shed by the back fence, by the firewall. That's two feet from the fire wall back there. Well, he wedged her behind that shed between the wall in the shed. Oh, that's terrible. Yeah. You know, like lumber that it's extra like old tires or some shingles that fell off the roof or something. That's what she did.

And then put it put a bunch of debris on top of her old carpeting. Yeah. And shit that you would put behind the show's back. We just talked about the pink hand that has an inch and a half of paint in the bottom. That's solid. Yeah. There's no reason to have the.

Why is this here? Well, I don't want to throw it out because then it's toxic or whatever, so I'll just put it on.

I may need it later and then I don't have to chip paint. I can just like it now. Got it. Exactly. Even though you'll never ever do ever. So all the kids saw the body behind the shed as well. They all walked out and looked at her. It's still stand by me thing. I want to see a dead body. Well, we don't have to follow the tracks. Just go in the backyard. It's right there.

Yeah. So they I'm sure we're morbidly curious at some point. Like I said, he washed the bloody club. He hid the clothes that he had on and all that sort of thing and yeah. Covered put them all in a bar, didn't burn his clothes, put them in a box in the bedroom. They'll never find it. They're they're gone. So the next day people are looking for Trudy. Trudy is not a flighty woman. She has two kids in church and all this stuff in a family, she doesn't show up somewhere.

There's a reason why. Pretty reliable, pretty reliable. So they go looking for her and they find her truck in the parking lot that they moved it to by the strip mall. Inside it, they do find a piece of paper with the correct address on it. So he he went in the car but didn't find that paper the cops found here. What an idiot. So then the police go to their home to knock on the door. And while they're doing it, they just walk around the yard or whatever and didn't didn't take too long to find a dead body behind the shed.

Oh, Jesus. The cops are just looking around there like found something. Yeah. I mean, it's right there, right. It's fucking obvious. Holy shit. So they pulled her out and they went, well that's her. And he's they weren't home at the time. He had run away to his sister's house, who lives in Phoenix as well. And tells his sister, Patsy, about the murder, tells them what he just did, the father was also there, too, and the father calls the police good and tells them I called the police and told them what you did.

And he doesn't leave. He just sits and waits to be arrested. He stays at the house and he's like, well, I guess I'll come and get me, then stays there, waits to be arrested and gets a call calling him out on, like, trying to bluff him like, no, I'll stay.

So he got on the phone and, you know, he said he really did it. But do you think cracky sat there and was like, cool, I'll sit here and wait and see then. No, no. I think he just I think he was tired. I think it was one of those things they always say the homicide David Simon book. That's the famous old thing that, you know, you leave people in interrogation room and see who goes to sleep.

That's the guilty person. That's actually like ninety eight percent true. It's a great point. They say it all the time. Sleep after doing that, they lose. They leave people if they're going to bring them in for murder interrogations, they leave them in the box for a while to see what they do. Because your actions while you're in there and thinking you're alone, tell a lot, even though if you know there's a camera on you, you do certain things.

One of the things they said is guilty people sleep. That's why innocent people who have been brought in to be questioned about a murder, they're too scared or entire they pace. They look out the window, they bang on the door, they go, what the fuck are we doing? Can we what's happening? Right. They're not comfortable. They're not happy to be here losing their minds. They're worried about it. They're like, this is weird.

A guilty person's like, well, I'm caught. Might as well sleep now. And they just go to sleep. I'm going to be I'm tired. Yeah. I guess they expected to be here eventually. So they're tired. So it's a weird things. I think that's kind of what it is. When the police arrived, he just peaceably came out, hands up, I'm your guy. You're looking for hands behind his back when in no problems, didn't even argue with them.

So, yeah, the medical examiner said severe injuries, like we said, swelling and bruises on her forehead and left orbital region. Her face and lips were swollen. Her frenulum was severed, which they attributed to blunt force trauma of the mouth. That's that little piece that connects to Jesus Christ. The they noticed a laceration near her right ear. Ligatures were affixed to her neck with tension sufficient enough to leave two marks to Jesus Christ elec neck ligatures would have decreased the oxygen flow to and from her brain as well.

She was being choked with them. And yeah, so he also readily admits to stabbing her, which is another thing he doesn't say, I didn't do it. And his wife talks about the grinding of the knife and all of that sort of thing. They have a witness, they have several witnesses that they didn't expect to have ever come forward. And they are there for children. Yeah, yeah. They tell one time in court, their little girl on tape described watching this.

This is a nine year old girl talking about this, talking about how she watched her daddy kill, quote, kill the church lady who came to their home to bring them food. She said, quote, He grabbed her from behind. He tied her up and she came up behind her and body slammed her, is what she said.

And this is fucked, too, because you can see it in the movie and it'll keep a kid watching what it what really. This is Dexter. Yes. Is not good. She saw the real thing horrible. And in the worst possible way. The worst possible way. Someone struggling. Begging. Yeah. Showing someone showing. No, absolutely zero. Caring for human life whatsoever or suffering or anything while she prays and. Oh she said, they said is there anything that the woman said?

And the little girl said she just kept saying, God help me. Oh my God. That is depressing, man. She also pleaded with the children three or four times to call the police and call nine one one. Instead, they said they obeyed their parents orders to go watch cartoons. One of the boys here said that he remembered seeing Trudy crying and hearing his father threatened to hit her if she didn't stop moving and remembered hearing what the he described.

The kid described what the club sounded like hitting her and all that sort of shit. He saw the blood on her head. He saw the body after it was moved to the back yard. He said that his parents plan to rob the church worker the day before the murder. They had been planning this for longer than a day. He said, quote, They wanted money. The police officers officer said, did she have any money? And the boy said she had some change.

A dollar twenty five. Good Christ, a dollar twenty five and a ring in change, literally two hours worth of crack. That's what this person's life is worth to them. Two hours worth of crack. That is fucking disturbing. What are the chances that these kids have it together? I can't fucking imagine. I can't imagine. Twenty five percent. That's one of them. The one out of four is probably normal. I maybe if that is so they said afterwards to the kids are examined by psychiatrists.

They said that the son, the oldest son, suffers from severe guilt and having followed his father's direction to find an extension cord. And he was just. Horrified, they couldn't sleep at night, he was so scared, he said of his dad, he didn't know what to do and he just did what he did because he thought his dad would hit him. So he was like, I didn't know. That's that's real, man.

I mean, and worked with my stepfather, who was a fucking monster on cars. Yeah. He tells you to go get a wrench. There's a time limit. You get a fucking wrench. Yeah. And he was I wasn't helping to murder somebody.

And they do they smoke crack all the time. These kids know what dad needs. Crack looks like. And it's you don't get in the way of that shit, period. It will fuck you up. So get that extension cord. Yeah, it's man it's wild. And the kids told the parents that they everything they saw the whole thing, they described that they regularly smoke crack and do anything they can. After the arrest of fellow church volunteer Cathy Specter said that volunteers are usually required to deliver food in pairs, but there was no one else available.

And Trudy decided to make the trip alone because she knew they had four children and didn't want them to go hungry, said, if I don't go, they're not going to have food. So it'll be fine. I'll just go. They said to this woman said the only reason she did it was for the kids. That's fucking sad. The kids at that point are moved at first, I believe, in a foster home and then they end up with his sister for a while here.

Patsy, she said that she was trying to you know, she the sister said this has devastated the family. Well, no shit. That's John. Sister said that about Rudy's family. That's what I'm saying. Jesus. Now, as far as the church program, the food, do you think maybe that wouldn't be going on anymore? They described it as there's no immediate plans by the church to change its policies at the time. We're concerned. They said, quote, At the time, we're concentrating on the healing of the calibrates family and this church.

She also said the church as an act of charity, is going to offer food, clothing and other assistance to the Sansing children. They're just really nice people. It sounds like her husband, Rosario Calabrese. Yeah, he said that he does not hate the people charged with the killing. He said, I believe they're on drugs and do not know what they are doing. I know they have to pay the price before God, but I don't know what to feel for someone related to you.

Hey, I don't know. Hey, I hate them. I don't hate them on my my own business. They'll pay for it. For somebody that's religious like this, this is like the ultimate test of it is like you always say, God's will and God's will and God punishes and God forgives. And all this this is the test. Oh, boy. You know, and these this person's like he I don't even know what to feel, which I don't you wouldn't know what to feel at that point.

So, John, there's a jailhouse interview in it. He says he's not perfect. He realizes that, but he loves his wife, loves his wife. And he says that he is he doesn't want his wife getting charged, too, because they're both charged with first degree murder. I would hope so, you know, because she helped everything and didn't stop it. And he says that he loves her and so much so that he said one time, this is him bragging.

One time a furniture mover insulted her and he assaulted the man with a weapon because the guy insulted her. So that's how much I love her. I won't even let anyone insult her. She'd never hurt anyone. So, yeah, during an interview here, he said that he's not a crazy or violent person. He's just on drugs. And he said, this is wild. He said I ended up killing her to put her out of her misery.

That's why I did it. The misery you put her in. Yeah.

He says that he said he felt the night of the murders, he felt worse than horrible, he said, while he was killing her. How about when you were raping her about that? You feel horrible about that while you were doing it? We are horrible. It's hard for me to. Yeah, usually my my fucking dick isn't hard. While I feel horrible about something, it worked very well. Yeah. He said, quote, My heart was beating so fast, I thought I was dying.

My head hurt. I felt like it was going to explode. He said once he started, just couldn't stop. He said, quote, Once I attacked her, I had to finish it up because I was going to jail.

Anyway, once you start something, you just can't stop the Pringle's. Come on. Yeah, just start eating Lei's. I mean, in a Pringle. His murder is sponsored by Pringle's.

Yup. He said if only we would have gotten drug counseling, maybe things would have been better. He said, I wish for a miracle that one day I could bring her back. Well, you can't stupid. You killed this woman. He said it's not right that his wife is facing murder charges. He said, quote, I'm the one that done this, damn it, I'm the one that done this. What the fuck is going on here?

Not Cara. He said that, you know, this is ridiculous. He said, quote, The only way Cara was involved was being there. Well, shit. Yeah. Yeah.

Not stopping you. That's a big part of it. I'm not going. Hey, don't do that. Right. He said that he hadn't he said at this point he hadn't planned to rob or harm her, which he did. But he said after raping and beating her so badly, he decided to kill her, to end her suffering. He said, quote, She was suffering. I wanted to end it. I wasn't playing God. I just couldn't handle seeing the condition she was in.

You did that? No, you can't cause something and then go. I just can't handle seeing it. What a cracky thing. It fucking cracked out thing to say, he said. He'll do anything to save his wife, he said she's a victim of years of his abuse and his drug addiction and that start and all that started when she met him. It's all his fault. He said, quote, Karen is telling everyone she gets what she wants.

Whatever I get, I can't allow that. I want her to be good. Deputies report that she obviously helped tie the woman up and everything. He says, quote, They may have. They asked about the kids, did the kids see this? And he said, quote, They may have seen her after I tied her up, but that's all not true. He says that he can't remember, though, every detail. Obviously, you know, things happened.

He said I was in a blackout situation. There was this figure there. I was not really seeing or hearing. OK, all right. Sure.

He said that neither his wife nor Trudy screamed during the attack. He said that Jesus Christ. He said his wife did. His wife told him to stop but didn't try to physically restrain him. He said that she knew that if she tried, he would have backhanded her. So that would have been a fucking moot point. Coming up, trying to get me to stop. He said, you know, don't you start. You just can't stop. He said that when he returned from moving the truck, that's when he said that she was still conscious and alive and tied up with cords.

And he said, you know, he said at some point that he blindfolded and gagged her and put a sock in her mouth and all that sort of shit. Now, in Kara's interview, this is fucking disturbing, man. I don't even know if I want to talk about this right now and Kara's interview here. He talks about she talks about what they were saying while he was raped on Nauru. I don't want to talk about it verbatim.

He's she's saying, like he said this and then she said this and it's gross. It's fucking I don't even know what to say about here.

I don't know. I don't want to talk about I'm not going to want to know how I know the and I know it's bad. It's it's oh boy.

She she was insulting.

We'll put it that way. I mean things to her and your God, she will still be no worse than that.

She was and she was still being nice to her and she was saying the one part I will say here, after all the worst parts, she was saying that please don't kill her, just let her go. She said, I won't call the cops, I won't do anything. And she was saying that. He said, yes, you will. As soon as you walk out, you're going to call the cops. I got to kill you, boy.

And he killed her.

So Cara decides to plea right away. She makes a quick plea deal on this because then she's going to testify against him. They want the death penalty for him. Well, yeah. So that's what they're really after. So they need her to get that basically. So she she allocates to the whole thing. She says that he raped beat her. He does the whole thing, tells them about just tells her and tells the court the whole deal.

During sentencing, she is asked why she did nothing to stop the attack and her lawyer said, quote, She's a battered woman. She was she's a typical battered woman. She was scared. And then she says they ask her if she has anything to say before her sentencing. She says she's become a born again Christian in jail and is witnessing to other inmates and turned to Trudy's husband, Rosario, and read a statement. She said, quote, From the bottom of my heart and soul, I pray you will forgive me.

I know I failed to help Trudy as she came to help my family. Not a day goes by that I don't remember the day, the horrible day that had happened. And the judge says, you, ma'am, may fuck off. You'll have a lot of time to remember it when you're in prison forever. Enjoy life. Life, motherfucker. Enjoy. It's twenty five to life. Twenty five without. So she can't have parole until at least another five years or so, three years.

And that would be the first. And I don't think she's getting it. Then there's no way it ain't happening. Give her that now. She's done so I said this, this is a bad one. So yeah she does that. She agreed to do that. She her lawyer said she wants the court and everybody to know she's entering this plea to spare her children any further pain. That's what she said. She's a real martyr, this one.

Any more any further pain? I think they've gotten the max. You fucked them up pretty good. I don't think it matters at this point. Now, John, talking about her, he does another interview and he said he was proud of his wife for what she did, for pleading and getting a deal for herself. He said, well, she done what she thought was best I wish I could have been there for. I'm proud that she made her choice and avoided the death penalty.

Now we can finally set this thing to rest. He's just like, this is good. Like he's a fucking nut. He he said his concern now is that it's his children get a permanent home. That's what he's really concerned. And he said, quote, We want the kids to continue to go to church. How about let's just make sure they're not completely psychologically fucking mangled before we even worry about church.

We're talking about permanent and things that they're going to be doing for a long time. It's psychologists.

Yeah, never mind. Yeah. We'll get to church later. These they need medical help. These kids. And they need, like medical help, maybe church, too. I don't know if that will help them, but I want psychologists and psychiatrists involved as well. I hope they're doing OK. Jesus.

So he decides he's going to play as well. He's not going to go to trial. He pleads with no sentencing deal. They will not give him a sentencing deal.

So taking the death penalty. So he pleads in hopes that in the faith that maybe they'll be nice enough to take it off the table. But all sentences are on the table. There's no they said you can plea if you want, but we're not giving you shit. We got your wife describing exactly how you brutally raped and butchered and fucking killed a woman in front of your children. I think we got this pretty good. We don't really need to make any deals with you.

You want to save the cost of the trial, knock yourself out. But you're still bleeding to first degree murder. There's no deal. And he does. He pleads to first degree murder without any negotiation for sentence, which is just bad business sense.

You know, it's just not good business. The guy doing a 50 percent off Labor Day sale on in fucking January. Yes. Not working. That's not working. How are you doing this? Like all bathing suits on sale, they're like it's three feet of snow on the ground, dummy. So he says that he did it to save his wife's life and all this sort of thing. He said she was a victim at my hands for years, all this shit.

So the reaction to the plea, the hug. Trudy's husband, Rosario, said he was relieved. He said, quote, I feel a little bit better because I don't need to go to the trial. I wanted this stuff to be finished. He had a got Jesus shirt on. This was going on. He said his faith is not faltered since the death of his wife and he doesn't really care about the death penalty. He said, quote, It doesn't matter what they get.

I don't feel what we have. I don't feel we have the right to kill people. But the Bible says it's OK talking about an eye for an eye.

So he's like he's confused about he I don't know. It says one one. He's literally going on one hand it says not doing the other hand, it says still I don't know which is which is right.

The Bible says it's OK, but I don't want to die. I don't really want to die. I don't want to kill him. So, John, in his sentencing, there's some aggravating circumstances, as you might imagine, that it was especially heinous, cruel or depraved. Yeah. Did it for robbery.

You know, there's a shitload of them of tons and tons mitigating. This is what he tries to put forth as mitigating circumstances, drug use causing impaired capacity, difficult childhood remorse, lack of education that his family loves him. Yeah. Who cares? Yeah, he they do find out, though, through all this that he at first he minimized his he minimized a lot of the things that sounded worse, the things he was saying to her, the fact that she he tried to say she was unconscious the whole time at first when she had regained consciousness.

Shit like that is makes it worse for him. The family talks before the hearing and the husband says, I personally don't believe in killing anyone. Whatever the law says is fine with me. That's the judge's job. I'm sure somebody I'm just someone who makes furniture. That's my job. He's like, I don't fucking know what I'm talking about. What say you know what? Fair enough. So he testifies against him in the sentencing, which is, you know, not good for him at all.

She describes his, you know, her prayers and everything like that in court, begging to fucking not die, even though we please we run a trial.

It's a sentencing. OK, I have a hearing for sentencing because there's everything from twenty five to life to death on the table basically here, the whole trial. Anyway, you hear all the real bad shit. Yeah, well there's just no no defense. Right. That's just here's all the bad shit and then they go. But he had a rough childhood. That's your only defense. You can't impeach a witness for saying stuff. They used to call him cotton tops.

Yeah. You know, cotton. No cotton top. John says, quote, If I had one wish in the world, that would be it would be to bring your wife back. But I can't do miracles. All I can do is give myself to the Lord. I hope I get to live. That's all up to the judge and to you. I hope I get to live. I'm here to say I'm willing to take anything that comes to me.

So there is one more plea for no death, and it is from another unlikely source. Trudi's ten year old daughter writes a letter to the court asking that they not give this guy the death penalty, which is kind of powerful. It's interesting.

It's very interesting as she is begging that he be allowed to live because, quote, The Bible says you should forgive and forget instead of dying. He this is what she said, quote, Instead of dying, he should live to do something for kids that my mom can't do right now. It says in the Bible that there's a good reason for everything that happens in life. And if John and Kara did not kill my mom, they might not have this chance to know.

Jesus. Wow.

The judge says it's a nice sentiment. You got their kid and you got a bright future in front of you and maybe writing or preaching. But you, sir, on the other hand, John, may fuck off death penalty for you, asshole.

A lawyer you're not. Yeah, this guy is going in the fucking tank either way. And. Yeah, because, I mean, everyone's like even people who don't like the death penalty that are like, yeah, I hate the death penalty, but holy shit, that's a horrible thing to do. He did as bad of a thing as you could do for a dollar twenty five, brutalized an innocent, sweet woman and fucking raped and killed and beat her in front of his children.

Mind you fucking up, kids. It's like murdering four other people at the same time. Right.

But I mean, he did the worst thing possible, minus like six more victims, you know. I mean, if he didn't if he did it over and over again, that's the only way he could be. If he did this to five more people, he would be world famous. Absolutely. He would be a it would be, you know, he'd be a oh, my God. So family members said that his mom talked about it afterwards.

The reporters talked to his mom, John's mom, and she said it was the drugs. I would have given anything if this day hadn't come. And then she walked away. Trudy's husband said, For everything we do, you have to pay the price. It's over. And now I can go back to my life. A new life. That poor bastard Jesus Christ. Now he appeals. He's not so thrilled with the death, but he's not so willing to take anything that comes to him anymore once it's given to him.

He says that now he thought about it and he's being a dick for on the death penalty. He said, quote, I looked up selfish in the dictionary and said, that's me. If I go in and ask for the death penalty, what are my kids going to feel? He said, if I'm spared with life in prison, I can be there for my wife and kids from prison. Right. So September 2003, he appeals again. He says that he asserts that the judge improperly based his sentencing decision on Mrs.

Carroll, on Calabrese is good character because the judge said while he was saying his concluding remarks after considering all aggregate aggravating and mitigating factors, described her as a person who stood out like a shining light, a true Samaritan who kept her faith in God till the end. So they're saying you I shouldn't get the death penalty because she was nice. Her niceness has nothing to do with my death penalty.

And they were like, fuck you the fuck out of here.

I didn't say anything mean about her. Yeah, that's not fair. That's not fair. I mean, I'm sure she did. Thanks to left the cap off the toothpaste. Something happened there. Ask her husband. I'm sure she did things that were real fucking like that, you know, in the middle of the night when you're just there and suddenly it ripped the blankets real hard. What the fuck was that? You wake up and you're like that, you know what I mean?

How many times you did you put the door open?

Discuss just the one of the justices here said the brutality of this murder clearly sets it apart from the norm of first degree murders. Yeah, fuck you. Take a hike. That's the penalty upheld. Man.

You you did everything but shoot her. You are terrible. You're an awful, awful, awful person. Then discarded her like she was literally discarded, like she was old carpet scraps discarded her with shingles and carpet scraps and old paint. You discarded her the same way that you throw something away that doesn't fit in the trash can for bulk trash day throw. Yeah. In the shed.

Don't need that exactly when trash comes. So time goes by February 2013.

Another appeal in U.S. District Court. And yeah, here this is habeas corpus. And he says that he's imprisoned and sentenced in violation of the Constitution, has twenty nine claims of all this shit, ineffective assistance of your asshole. And, you know, my mother didn't fucking stick my face in on it. And they say, fuck off, asshole. Don't think so. That's the US District Court there. August 2014 comes around. Member Lucille Miner Johnson, remember her?

Oh, yeah. Holiday Utah. Right. The reason we did this. Yeah, well, the police get a phone call from a man named Chad Sansing. Chad is John's nephew, right? Chad tells the police that he's he's held this back long enough. He heard John and Cara arguing on at least two occasions and overheard Cara threatening John, saying that he was she was going to, quote, tell the police about that old lady he murdered in Utah.

Oh, my. I heard this on multiple occasions. So maybe you guys would want to check into this. So they do check into this and they submit scrapings from under Lucille's fingernails for DNA testing.

Oh, thank you. Two thousand four before that. The thing that connects them originally before they even get to that, because to do all that testing, they go, let's do a quick thing. First they get his fingerprints and the son's fingerprints, who would have been five years old at the time and test them against the Legos.

Oh, they match. Get the fuck out. They found the match on his son's right leg, five year old, and said, play with your Legos. Will I kill this fucking out of same son that had to get the extension cord? By the way, my that's how they found it was the Legos. Once the Legos matched, that's when they went to DNA and they found out that John is in fact, a match on Lucille's DNA scrapings under her fingernails when she fought back.

So he killed her as a. Well, unbelievable. So there you go, multiple murders in multiple states, he's one of the worst people on Earth. He's terrible also. Yeah, his wife admitted to detectives that he admitted to her near the time of the murder that he had also killed another woman. Oh, my. I don't know if that's true or not. They said, quote, This is the police officer. Oh, I'm sorry.

This is. Oh, yes, the police officer. While in that home, it's clear Mr. Sansing bludgeoned Lucille to death, leaving his five year old apparently, apparently in the living room to play with Legos. On those Legos were the fingerprints of Mr. Lansing's juvenile son. The daughter says they don't know each other. They're not acquaintances or anything. But if he came to the door with a five year old and said he needed help, the mother would have let him in.

That's probably what it was. And yupp DNA matches to fingernails and everything like that. They ask him about it. So, John, what the fuck? And he says, I did it. You got me nothing you can do about it. We got it. We can nail your kid's Legos and everything else.

He said that he just panicked. He said that he he went down the hallway and was trying to steal from her. And she caught him and she caught him and he panicked and didn't do couldn't do anything else. He also admits that his wife and children were also there. Cara was there, too. And yeah. So one child at the time, they were also there. He said that they were there when she killed her, but quote, they were nowhere near her.

They stayed down the hallway in the living room. So I'm sure it was fine. But she was found in the front hallway with Legos around her. So like he drug her out there, something where the kid was.

So this is fucking horrible. Heat the holy shit out of her.

Almost every rib eye just beat her until she was then strangled her. So they charged him in Utah, September 2nd, 2014. He's charged with one count of first degree felony murder. And yeah, they said I mean, they said, quote, Oftentimes in law enforcement, we deal with individuals who can be characterized as not necessarily bad people, but people who do bad things. Occasionally we run into individuals who are evil. He said that Sansing can only be described as that this is an individual who perpetuated crimes that are just beyond belief.

Yeah, I would say so that her kids were thrilled with this because they thought it was all it's been. Twenty three years. They fucking forgot all about them ever finding anything and they just one day call them up and went, Hey, we got the guy who killed your mom, right?

They were like fucking for real awesome. Her son, the one who heard about it in the car. He said that, quote, I wasn't sure it would ever it would ever be solved because the length of time that was going on here, they were so thankful to the detectives who found it. And the son also said, quote, I think forgiveness is really what closure is. I think we already have forgiven Sansing. How does it matter?

Who are these people? How does he do? Yeah, I didn't want the death penalty for the lady who killed my great grandmother because it's not going to bring her back. But I wasn't like, she's fine. She's cool. We'll invite her over for Thanksgiving. If I saw her, I punched her in the twat.

That's but I don't want to, you know, believable fuck, man. And yeah. So her daughter said that she still has had a huge effect on her. She said ever since this has happened, she doesn't like being alone in parking lots or walking out anywhere alone. She doesn't ever want to be alone. She said that she didn't have feelings of anger, though. She said, I just hope justice will be served.

It is fascinating when you become a victim of something like that, how vulnerable you fucking guys, you really are.

You all the time constant, fucking hard. It's amazing that your brain can cover that danger up. Yeah, my back to the opening of the room and I think about it constantly while we do that. Yeah, it's I mean, you have to when we talk about murders and shit like I have you covered over here, so the dogs are sleeping right outside the door. But I'm going to watch your face and it's going to go horrified and then I'm going to know that I'm about to die.

Everybody's upstairs is dead, right? Everyone's dead. Nothing's going to save me. Well, dogs are gone. I have weapons around here. I have my gavel's like five gavel's right next to. I'll toss you one and we'll just go double gavel attacking motherfucker. We got empty plastic bottles, all one glass, one of a sword around here. There's got to be I got a cricket bat, the scared fucking cricket bat. There's that picture someone sent us with hypodermic needles in it.

I'll stab you right in the eye with one of those fuckers. I'll rip it right off the painting. So anyway, horrifying how vulnerable you are. One question they have is, hey, if he did this one, do you think maybe he's got more murders than he did because he'll just bust into a stranger's house and fucking right that thing with his own kid? He's got no boundaries. This guy, this is number one. And they said they were looking at him in connection with other unsolved murders.

The cops said, we know there's similar homicides that occurred and that that occurred in that time frame from eighty nine to ninety one. So he's definitely someone we're going to be looking at for a long time. Run his DNA. Who the fuck knows if his DNA isn't on shit, he could have bodies on him. Yeah, we have no fucking idea. And between. Ninety one in 98, he didn't kill anyone else, but he was on crack the whole time.

He's twenty one and protecting his 16 year old. He did when he was 15. Fuck, yeah. He's in prison right now. He's in Florence. I found him. Here's a picture of him now. Boy, with the stupid face cock facing him. He's got no lips. The least lipped man I've ever seen in my life. Oh he looks like a monster surgically removed. He looks like a guy who would rape a church worker. Yeah.

And kill him.

He's got no lips and all the eyelids. Yeah. That's drooping down.

So they put all his lips on his eyelids. He's on death row. Good. He's waiting. From what I saw, he was working as a porter in the prison. I looked up, I found his his infractions in prison as well. In 2000, he was written up for disobeying an order. Twenty one, he was written up for assault with a deadly weapon in prison. That's nice. In 2002, written up for disrespect, two thousand four did something about destruction of property on the prison grounds.

And then twenty twelve, assault on an inmate as well. So he's an asshole his entire life, asshole forever. How is he trusted with being a porter there he was at first and then it went away. Yeah. Now Kara, his wife, here she is. Oh I see a picture of her. She's got like a cloudy eye at this point in time and looks like she's like, oh, boy, I wonder if she was stabbed.

I don't know. She's got some weird. Looks like she's an old an old movie. Yeah. Here she is also. Where do they move her to here. I can't find your shoe or something. It does because they moved her around a bunch actually all over Arizona. All over Arizona. She gets moved all around. She's in there for life, though. She's got a life sentence. She seems to be working in the in the prison kitchen for the last few years and has more infractions than John does.

Wow. Ninety nine when they first got in disobeying order. Twenty two, possessing contraband. Twenty three, possessing contraband. Two thousand for selling or trading services. Twenty ten unauthorised smoking or tobacco use. Twenty twelve 2012 promoting prison contraband, which means bringing it into prison, which is a major offense. Twenty twelve. Obeying a verbal or written order 2012. Twelve theft. Possession of stolen property. Oh she had a bad twenty twelve. Real bad for infractions in 2012.

All in job. February, March, February, March, November. They're all different than not even the same incident. And then twenty thirteen disobeying verbals or verbal or written order. So found guilty on all of those as well in the court. And so as he found guilty on everything except with the assault with a weapon, he was found to be not enough evidence, John, in present. But they're both in their their way and execute him.

Who the fuck knows? But yeah, that is fucked, that story, is it not?

That's a guy that certainly deserves his punishment. Yeah, he earned it.

Well, yeah, we talked about it a lot or not. Big death penalty guys. I don't know what it solves. It makes people feel good sometimes or whatever, but obviously it's not applied correctly and there's a lot of fucking problems. If one person who didn't actually do it gets killed, it's bad at minimum. It keeps that guy from escaping ever.

We know for a fact that this happened. Yeah, he admits it. His wife thought his kids saw the DNA, says it. He did it twice. Right. Like at least just to hit this guy with a truck, for Christ's sake. I don't care. Fuck this guy. I don't need we don't need that guy. The kids have to be a mess, man. They have to be. I feel bad if they're not, we apologize.

But I mean, if they're even if they're not in prison. Yeah, fuck. They're amazing. Their powers of perseverance are amazing if they're not in prison or on a very addictive hardcore drug right now because I don't know how the fuck they could be normal. Have a normal life. You have to I mean, that's strength. And I and hopefully they stay. They got help, right? If they were in foster care, I would hope that they could get some help.

But it's a foster care system here is terrible. So I hope it's fucking disgraceful. It's embarrassing. It's disgraceful. Like, they'd be better off in Utah with the you know, with the Mormons. I don't know. That's his house. I don't fucking I don't know where the fuck they'd be better off, but that is a mess of a disaster. Well, that's what I said. It's a double loop roller coaster. You think it's over and it's bad enough and you're like, fuck that guy.

And then you're like, oh, we have that too. How could he? Which is sort of worse because it's an old lady whose house you had to con your way into the house like you've seen a child.

Yeah. Like this. Just like I'm here to check my phone. Right. Like my car broke down on the street. There's my kid. That's what they told me. She said that she needed to use her phone because her car broke down. Asshole. Yeah, my grandmother's nice. And she was like Charlotte. And this is like a twenty year old girl. She's like, yeah, no problem. I'd look today. I mean, you look him in the face and go, you don't have a cell phone.

Your life is a disaster. There's no way you're coming in my house. Yeah. Yeah.

If you're, you know, you have a fucking like you don't have the minimal thing that an adult buys. First go away. New season of love after lock up is out. And in every single one of them, the first thing they get. When they come out of prison, they need a phone, brand new, first thing you get phone so you can communicate, be able. Yeah, well, that everybody is Holladay, Utah, and, you know, by extension, Phoenix, Arizona as well.

So we did a little got a little local flavor in there for me and Jimmy. And I know where everything was felt nice till the church lady was brutally assaulted and killed and stuffed behind a shed. Apart from that. Apart from that, what a touching story. The dresses were nice. That was nice to hear the familiar addresses and up in Utah. But yeah, for twenty three years, they were just everyone in that neighborhood was scared. They didn't know what happened.

Anybody came to like, you know, solicit or believe a flyer on the door. People were ready to call the cops, ready to shoot them. And they didn't get the addresses, right? That's right. You better hold that pizza out front like a fucking white flag. I have pizza. I brought I remember breadsticks. Put the weapons down. If this is the wrong house, this is yours anyway. Yes, I'm leaving. OK, I'm not fuck.

I'm running leaving it and running. So yeah that is that hope. You enjoyed that show an hour does disturbed by it as we are because that was fucking disturbing. I'm so sad if you have any emotions at all to that. I got an idea. Get on Apple podcast that purple icon and give us a review. Give us five stars no matter how you feel. Right. And it doesn't matter what you say, say whatever you want. We really don't care.

I really like caring about people's favorite sandwich combinations that they've been posting. That's fun. So like, what kind of condiments do you like or how you do it? What's your order? Do you do cheese on the bottom? Do you cheese on the top, maybe cheese in the middle of the meat. Do you like the peppercorn in the Salome's.

I don't know. That's terrible. Pick those things out. Yeah. I don't want any part of that. Just I don't want peppers in my. No I don't like that but I will eat the pimento loaf. I don't like that either. Oh God. My grandma used to try to feed me that when I was a kid. A fucking Procol and I love green olives still but I fucking puke all the shit out of there and it's just a fucking baloney that it's a Swiss baloney sandwich and it was grossly disgusting.

I love it. So yeah. Where the hell was I do that. I don't even remember. I'm oh. Apple podcast Purple Icon Sandwiches. That's right. Tell us what your favorite sandwich just does fucking matter. Other than that, keep going to shut up and give me murder dotcom for everything crime and sports and small town murder related. We have all new merch up there right now. So check that out. New stuff popping up all the goddamn time on there for you guys.

Also, the tickets to the live shows. We're kind of booking those as we go. They're rescheduling a lot for next year. And also no details yet, but we're going to be putting on at some point. Oh, a little virtual something for you guys. We're going to do a virtual live show of some kind, but it's probably going to be like the prisoner dating game or something like that, because we're going to do it's an experiment.

We're going to check it out. You'll at it. It'll be ticketed and you guys can buy tickets and watch it. And we're going to do that. So it's going to be within the next month and a half. Yes. So look out for that. More details to come. We'll have more details next week. And then every week after, we'll have even more details and then they'll go on sale. So that's the most details. So I'll check all that out and see us all over there.

Listen to crime and sports, too. If you haven't if you're if you're not, you're you're blowing it. You're blowing it. Listen to crime and sports. Also, check out P.S. I hate this movie on the weekend still where we talk about bad romantic comedies. That's a lot of fun. Check that out. Keep coming back. Check us out on social media. Maybe do that. We're at murder small on Twitter, at small town pot on Facebook and at small town murder on Instagram.

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Like there's no like, you know, ten minute bullshit. We do a fun thing this week on crime and sports is bonus, which you'll have access to because you get access to everything for the five dollars on on crime. And sports is going to be old personal ads from the newspaper that I find some of the craziest fucking personal ads are fun and they're fun as shit. And we go over them from like, you know, nineteen eighty nine in Kansas and it's funny as shit.

And I try to decipher whatever codes that they used, decipher codes. Then we find some ads that you go along with it. It's, it's a, it's a trip. You want to check that out. And on small town murders, Patreon this week, like we said, you get access to both for the five dollars. We are going to do an in-depth look at the white trash defense and used, I believe, in episode sixty or sixty one.

Sixty one is Lou Diamond Phillips, Oklahoma. Sixty sixty one or one with with the pandemic that we talked about, I think it was the same episode. Yeah, I think that's the same thing with the white trash because I've heard it 30 dead people about it repeatedly since February. Right. So in that we talked about this person appealed their murder conviction using something called the white trash defense and he meant it. This is a legal document describing how not.

Describing how the jury couldn't possibly understand who he is and his lifestyle and horrible multiple murders he committed because they're not white trash right now, it wasn't that the whole jury there was like eight black guys, two Puerto Rican guys, and the whole jury was 12 white people. It's Phillips, Oklahoma. But he said they weren't white trash like he was they were fancy white people as opposed to he comes from a culture of white trash, which you need to understand to know why it's OK to rape and murder.

I'm redneck other than you.

Yes. So it's legally the way it's an amazingly put thing. And we went over it quickly at the very end of the episode when we did that episode. But we'll get into it in depth. And I found the book that it's based on and it's fucking hilarious. We'll talk about that. You can get all that and more over at Patreon. Dotcom slash crime and sports. Anybody over the five dollar level will have access to that. You just want to be a nice person and donate on PayPal and hear your name mispronounced by Jimmi.

Very easy to do that as well. Over at PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at Gmail dot com. That said, enough of this bullshit. Jimmy, I've heard so much gross stuff in this episode and read it all. Might I need to hear good things like the names of the best fucking people in the world who would bring us boxes of food and we would never kill a rape? Hit me with them, Jimmy. This week's executive producers are Christopher Paul.

Carol Christie hunting Troy Mangino or Mengele, by the way, Troy fucking I don't even know how to say thank you.

Thank you so much. You're here. Really. Thank you. We appreciate the shit out of you, Troy. Thank you, Will. As Tanya Rand Oh, it's Tanya Willis, by the way. Randall Martin, Jackie Sidcup, Christiane Castaldi Rought. What does this Donny Donny King, Jordan Bennett, Cindy Crenshaw, Sarah Nasse, Crystal Cooper, Lisa Letterman. Jennifer would no last name. Arthur Weitzel. Lisa love David Blacher. I think Kyle Westbrook keta nope.

Yeah. Yeah. What does that count. Yep. I think it's Katta Sorensen. I don't know how to it's Harrison said OK. And also Eric Jones. Thank you guys so much for everything you do. Truly you're you're changing lives. You're amazing. Rawnsley other producers this week. Our Asia Desert. Fox Desert. Nope. Desert Dhoruba. Desert Davich. I'm sorry, I'm going on. Jamie Lee Thomas. Lauren Demoratic. Max Nope. Yep.

Max Beverly. To him this is going well I know already. Kelly Renninger, Thomas Smith, Carl Doyel, Melissa Turner, William Birdwell Bordeleau, Hailey Irving, Trey Volcan and Janice Hill, James Marter, Susan Ologist Liz Vásquez, Payton Meadows, Amanda Nitsa, Sarah Serj, Melissa Letterman. I said that earlier. She donated both ways. Thank you. Selina Schmidt Schmetzer I think. Danielle Swift, Rebecca English.

John Winzer Hawkins'. Andrea Webster. Samantha Ray Tutto Tufo. Kyle Bailey. Brooke Kail. Brendon Abels Gardner. What does that Grover MacDiarmid. MacDiarmid What what. Finnemore Finnemore Calderon. Justin Bayen. Kristy Morrison. Todd Albrecht. Albrecht Albrecht. Joshua Bric-A-Brac Tammet. Steven. What did I do. Lowitt Loughney. Yep. Jason Lopez My Kalo Macaco Nordon Donald Prader Parta Porter J.

Melissa Stoops Adam Cosmin Robert Larssen. Courtney Cabral, Kendra Grant Grannis. David Tapio Morgan four or five nine. Mark Carver. Sarah Smokey. Ben Ascott.

I really got to get a better pen. Trent Trans seventy one. Alice Alessa Stanley Jen Cowherd probably dudes white shorts.

Collins got to be absolutely Angela Deloitte, Benedict Brooks, Nora Hammer Vic Jacob Magyars. Sean would no last name. Cheyenne Quigley. Nathan Kendall, Margaret Bernet. Mark Galvani, Derek Zaida Acey. Ryan Hendriks. Brian Humes. Sam would no last name. Michael Renninger. Brandee Coulier. Coulier ya when. What is this. Ya when Zorah Luen I think Damon Miller. Mary Mackenzie. Deana. Nope that's Diana probably holds it. Holgersson Turner Stewart Kristy Lee Rame.

Chuck Ashely Johnson. Shelley Barret. Lindsay would no last name. Cady Coleman. Dan Rogers. Joshua ALA's Allers Tatiana with no last name. What is this. Raiden. Nope. Kaiden Vance. Tanay Valentine regular. John Flynn. Patrick Brandon Paige. Daniel Russel. Eddie would no last name. Ryan Beyler. Frankie Mantin Mont Mont Petitt. Lisa Mariotti. Lisa Lecia leftover. I think later. I don't know. I don't know. I'm terrible at.

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Chad Richie. Andrew Green. Jennifer Go Goff Brooklyn LatAm lover. Larry Laramore. Diane Zimmerman. Emily Hoover. Jennifer Really. Nick Bennett. Skylar Skylar McGee. George Jackson. Don withits Whities Slade would no last name. Tyler DeBois. Michelle Fox. Katie Stowe. Sash Moscati. Nope Misako Masako Massa. Kody M.. What are you talking. Mastodon see Don M.C. Steven Dole. Ali Baba Sacramone. Ali Amytal. Joseph Mason. What is this Kevin.

With a Y Mansfield mouthfeel or wild.

I know that's, that's different.

That's not nice. Now Christopher Brock Nipe with no last name. Nivi Rachel Bernburg. Bourdon Bordonaro.

No Gen Y Sneve. Yes. I have confidence in yourself too. Yes. Bordonaro or whatever it is. That's the one.

That's Conner Greenwalt. Jessica Somervell. One Evins almost pronounce the J.

Maybe they pronounce their names wrong. That's the thing. Maybe you're right. That's the you know, we have never thought about that. We've never even considered that. You're right. Emily Milligan, Thompson Smalls with no last name. Jeri Lin Knight. Amanda McMullen, William Perry, probably the Freidrich Clancy, Aaron Atkins charmayne with no last name, Sophie and Olivia. Never, never, never. Mauer, it's me.

Oh it's it's a year not that's six different pronunciations.

You've just got Jean Sandrich, GM, Jean probably Charlene Bratcher, Mel Ackerman, Yant Yonnet, Flores, Ryan Miller, Travis Haslem. Amanda would no last name Isabelle. No last name. Tanya Willis. Sonya Bouar. Gebo Bowden Dawn Marie Howe Rosa. Nina Britto. Alexandra Al Contin er Nopal Kanter Al Contar. All wrong. Don Smith. Shannon Heikki. Karen Edwards. Nope that's Reynolds Elche Kelley. Nicholas Cameron. Liam Smith. Claire Archer Richards.

Jannika with no last name. Natalie Johnson. Gregory Lado. Michael Straczynski. Nope. Torchinsky Turns The Enschede. Elizabeth Taylor Salty ADM Chase Randall. Kathleen Marsh Whitney with no last name. Chelsea McAdams. Emily Marie Madison, Gwen Gwine. Nick Breitenbach Jesus Marissa Whiteside. Cheri Mitchell. Emily Maria said that Ryan would no last name.

Christian Oven Houben Ubon Daniel Rogers. Danielle Rogers Teacup with no last name Mayer Maria Ma, Maria Jordan Craggs Craggs Jesus Matt Bush and Kelly Wylder Outlaw Robin Back Michael with no last name. Bat Mock I think. Corey Ausborn. Jason McIvor. Nancy Keaton. Madison Peppers. Vicky Williams. Niki Nope. Yeah. Ricky Ricky LeFleur. Reggae. Reggae. That's I think that's right. It might be Rocky Rachel, Rachel Spears, Laura Blakesley. She's been around a long time.

Yeah. Gloria, thanks lot. Nope. Ranie Lainez Corn, Trevor Morris Tausche Walter Ted Aspell. Matt what does this Matt Robinson. Tom W Sandra Watkins. Joseph White which Weyden. Which K What does this bounce. Bhanot bounce now.

Jennifer Jillian Sarah Leitchfield Letchford Shaun Bertelsen a Thompson Bennett Killgore Amy what is Jasinowski Morgan and and Benbrook. Jess and Kyle Norton. Riley Slight Sluiter Alex Ball Kenward no last name. Alaska the whole state Heynckes Haley Wailin Wollen Aaron Dickey Haley would no last name. Wade Kristiansen. Nathan Bland. Lisa Atkinson. Hannah Sedgwick. Michelle Donnegan.

Greg Walters, Jason Bookham on that well, I know Allison writes, Tim Ashley, Leslie, Blaze, Blaze, Blaze Damn Sunny Davis, Sean Collins, Amber Fields, Johnny Berkland, Michelle Stalker, Chad Cooper, Michael Singleton, Le'Veon Bell. Probably not Qahtan don't. Do not Sir Edmund. Nope, sorry. Lauren Bryant. Laura Bryant Pálmi Betye Sean Abdool Abdel-Aziz Edward Arnold Arnold. Heather Hall. Holly C-Mac Simac Jen Noch Jenna Krot Nicholas fucking. What part of Paris.

Paris. Paris. Paris.

Because of what. One Italian. No it's our spetzler. There's Anapolis goddamn Terri Schiavo. BioBlitz he's Greek. Yapp Janakaraj, Allyssa Allison Tylor, Francisca Schmidt and Ashley Samms. Ellen O'Hara. Jessica Shihan. April proudly Paral proofs proof. Jennifer Provan. Stacy Perret Rev. I think hrough maybe I don't know. Keely Smith Jennet Dawson. Josh Page, Nicole Delahunt, Kate Coleman, Shauna Moose, Heather Fallers, Cynthia Sophie Fantini and also Deve Laura and E.J. Hustla and all of our Patrón supporters.

You guys are truly the most fucking amazing. Thank you. Thank you everybody so much for everything you do.

Honestly, clearly we can't do it without you. And thank you so much for hanging with us and doing all this shit. We have so much more stuff coming up that you guys don't know about. We are going to be we're going to be up your asses even more. We'll put it that way, if you like, for you putting our stamp on some things and we're going to be doing some things. And we got a new we got new stuff happening and a live feed.

We got a whole bunch of stuff. And it's because of you. It's because of you guys. So the next few months, we have a lot more stuff popping off. So keep in tune and keep checking it out. Follow us on social media and you'll hear a lot more than that. What if they wanted to follow you or find you happy to do it? I mean, I'll go on Instagram and Twitter, Westermann, Zuks. That's it.

You go. What about you, Matt? Jimmy P is funny and you can follow me if you feel like it and just do that. I don't know how like check us out. You can just copy and paste my name if you want because you're not going to spell it right. But other than that, everybody, it's been goddamn crazy. I think it's time to go wash ourselves thoroughly. I'm going to wash my eyes out and my ears out.

So go watch Movado.

That's let's go everybody out there. Go wash your buttholes. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.