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This week in Anniston, Alabama, we look at one of the most twisted, strange tales we've ever told involving mysterious illnesses suddenly appearing twin sisters and an absolutely unbelievable explanation to it all. Welcome to small town murder.


Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder. Hey, hey, indeed, Jimmy. Yeah, indeed. My name is James Petroglyph. I'm here with my co-host, Jimmy Whittman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us once again.


If it's your first time, you have chosen wisely not only to listen to the show, but to listen to this week's episode of the show, because I have to tell you, this is one that I've had for a couple of years just sitting there waiting to tell.


And it's Anniston, Alabama. We were there once before. So you're not going to have to hear stat's this time because we did that once before. But there's other stuff to talk about. Don't worry. That's how crazy this murder is, is that we are going back to a town we've done before, which we've never done before.


That's how nuts it is.


First of all, thank you, everybody, for your reviews this week. They help a lot of Apple podcasts. If you haven't done it yet, please give us five stars on that purple icon. Right. We don't know why it helps, but it does. So thank you. Head over to shut up and give me murder. Dotcom for everything. Crime and sports and small town murder. Listen to crime and sports if you haven't. This week it was Charles Barkley.


So I know you've heard of him and it was a wild tale, a good a good first episode to get the kind of the rhythm of the show. It's a good time. Check that out. Also, listen to PSA, this movie this week where we talk about bad romantic comedies. Also, if you would like to be a contributor to the show. Yeah, of course, if you want to be a producer, you can do that very easily and you get lots of stuff for that as well.


Bonus stuff and there is tons of bonus stuff up there. Last bonus episode for Small Town Murder was that we talked about, Chris, what's in that documentary, that whole mess. This time we are going to talk about crazy murders that happened on Thanksgiving. Oh, Thanksgiving family insanity.


We're going to talk about, OK, this is it happening. Oh, it happens so much. You have no idea something. A YouTube video of a guy throwing a turkey at his dad.


Oh, this is going to be people snapping on Thanksgiving. Sometimes it's a plan. Sometimes it's just I'm mean, I think I need to kill everyone because you not enough. I've had enough. And also the Cowboys lost today or whatever it is, I don't know, lions, they lose their mind. Yeah, that's how it works. I'm not sure. So do that. And the even the Crime and Sports Bonus episode is back story on the five killer, Randall Woodfield, who was a crime in sports, actually an episode.


And we're going to do a lot more backstory on him and how he got started and stuff like that. So that is a name serial killer. So you should be interested in that. That and a ton more over at Patreon on dotcom slash crime and sports. Anybody over the five dollar level will get all of that. And Jamil, mispronounce your name if you just want good karma and also to get your name mispronounced and be a producer and feel feel good about that.


You can do that over at PayPal as well, using our email address, crime and sports at Gmail dot com. And quickly, the disclaimer. This is a comedy show. It is comedy podcast. The facts are we wish they weren't real, but they are we wish none of this stuff happened. But it does. That's unfortunate. Whether we talk about it or not, it's still going to keep happening. That's the thing. So, you know, we we're going to we're going to do or comedians.


That's what we do. I we're going to talk about small towns. We'll joke about that. We'll joke about a police force and mess something up. We'll make fun of murderers. That's what we do, what we try not to do. We go out of our way not to do is we try not to make fun of the victims or the victim's family. Why? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags.


That that's how it works. It's good stuff. So buckle up and have fun if that sounds good to you. If not true, crime and comedy should never, ever go together for you. Maybe it's not for you. Yeah. You know, or maybe it is to give it a shot, but don't complain later because, you know, not even no jokes come in. So watch out for that. And everybody else wants to have a good time.


And here, one of the craziest stories we've ever heard. I think it's time to sit back, clear the lungs and shout, shut up and give me murder.


Let's do this, Jimmy. Let's go on a trip, OK? We're going from Massachusetts, where we were last week. Dist. up there, up there in the northeast. We're heading down south again. Yeah. Can't get much different. Much more different than Alabama and Massachusetts. Yeah, I would say polar opposites. It's you know, I think Venus and Jupiter are probably more similar because I've I've been to both and they're very different. So, Anderson, as you know, we've done before we did Aniston episode twenty one was in Anniston, Alabama case.


And it was funny because we got some more than a hate mail, some pushback.


I not hate mail, hate press on that from an actual publication in Anniston, Alabama. Used to publish an article about that. Yeah, I really had, like, a little snarky ness to it, like, you know, like they don't know the real Aniston type of thing.


And it was like, listen, motherfucker, there's a reason why no one knows the real Aniston.


Only you your town is beautiful and named after Jen. Shut the fuck up. And if you were a provincial dipshit that never left five near five feet from where he was fucking born, you'd probably know that shit.


If every girl doesn't look like Jen Aniston, I don't want to hear it. That's what I mean.


There was that. It was Reese Witherspoon. Sweet home, Alabama.


No. Oh, what's the last name? Oh, Anniston, Alabama. I want to see some reason I went to the house from this movie, I had to watch all these romantic I bought into my fucking brain now. Great, great.


So, yeah, they had a little bit of an issue in Alice Janice in Alabama. So but we took it in stride. We laughed about it and we said to me, cheer up, bitch.


Yes, we did. So that was our way to get right on up. That was our way of of of taking that. So this quick refresher, it's in northeastern Alabama. It's the nickname of the town is the model city, which if I once we tell you about the town, this is a model gone wrong. This is a model where someone tried to build it and they put the glue on too early and now there's things out of place.


They just mean it's like the clay before you do anything with it. It's it's a lump of something. You know, if Clay is the word, I'm looking forward to a lump or something, it's mushy.


Yes. Since we already did the town listen to episode twenty one for the standard stats, we'll still do real estate report. And, you know, I'm going to catch up on like the income now and stuff like that population. But none of the in between stats will be history. Until we did it, we did a long history on it. In the first year I was out. We'll just recall a case to refresh your memory, racist history, bad shit in the early sixties.


And don't drink the water because the town is just loaded with PCBs and it's toxic.


So bad shit. Everything in the town is toxic. Vody forever. Watch out for that. 60 Minutes did a piece on it. Monsanto basically salt of the Earth for forty five years before they finally stopped it. And you can't get rid of those PCBs so they don't go away.


It's not good. I found some reviews of the town. We give a certain view based on what we read and we don't go to the towns to know. We'll walk around and go. Actually, the you know, that little restaurant is not bad. And Chet's a pretty good waiter. Like, we don't get to do that. So let's do some reviews and let other people tell you about the town. Here's a review here. It's a two star review.




Not having such a weird thing is that like some of the two star reviews were pretty good. It was like, you know, sort of OK, you think like a three, four, but two stars, they recognize that it's a piece of shit.


It's just not that bad.


It's weird. So two stars, quote, it has a lot of bad and not enough good. What is this? Petitt, Pettiford, PFM. I don't know if all P.E.T. if I'm not I don't know what that is.


You know, that seems like a misspelling there. Misfire on their part. Smidt drunk. Yeah. Let them speak to tax authorities.


Pettiford It has no sparkle and my only reason for even staying was that I loved the people there spelled t ah the less popular spelling of over there.


You rarely switch those those that never have right now.


I see it the other way with that as a substitute that one for that one. The Annison education system is special, just put it that way. So if they're doing a good job but the bad outweighs the good so there can be no better, more answered so there can be no better. More answer.


Oh boy. What the fuck are you talking about? Lunchmeat that I hope you're either from another country or you've had like a shitload of like corn mash whiskey tonight or whatever.


You're up moonshine drinking down there and then hammering it from hard faded from it has no sparkle. Think about this thing about I'll read it exactly as it's written. OK, it has a lot of bad. Not enough good. No comma. Yeah. A lot of bad. Not enough good paedophilic and there's no sparkle. And my only reason for saying is I love the people there.


I said it wrong because it's. Yeah but the bad outweighs the good so there can be no more better answer.


That's exactly how it is intended. Thank you. That's where am I going. Oh this is a.. Yeah.


That down to stars. Next one. This one's a little more coherent anyway.


Two stars quote very poor town is full of thrift stores, rehabilitation centers, high crime and unemployed. Corruption in the judicial system, high academic standards held to middle and high school pupils. Anniston, Alabama, is in need of a receding replacing the reevaluation of all city and county workers seeing the city through thoroughly investigated by state and federal officials. Oh, holy shit. This city. We'll talk about it in the crime rate when we do that at the end is just it's one of the highest the FBI listed in the top five of small town crime rates, really in the it's like this Selma's up there a couple other that are just absolutely not great in terms of crime rate all around a lot of corruption.


And it's just there's a lot going on here that's not great money supposed to be going somewhere doesn't therefore that all is ruined and and you got an ass and someone to write an article complaining because we brought it up.


Right. So sorry for bringing it up. These two assholes in Arizona pointing out our shit, how dare they point out the corruption, so what? So what? We're working on it. That's what we do. Not having two stars, Anderson, as a high rate of crime. We need more honest police officers and the schools need to be fixed. Schools is the apostrophe s I have. But that's OK. At least it sounds right anyway. And also the right.


Yeah. And also they need to be fixed.


And that's the point is still taking Bextra and it's a living example, so it makes it better. Thank you for that. You know, maybe they're just putting themselves out there. See, look, I don't even know that's wrong on this review is like the Constitution. It is a living, breathing thing. What it is, man, I have lived in Anniston about ten years and it's hard to find affordable, decent place to live now. Decent, maybe, but affordable.


Everything here is affordable and it's OK. But this is one of the cheapest towns we've ever been in for real estate. And finally, two stars. This person has a this is a I like the long ones where they really they're past. They sat down to fly over here. I thought, here we go. Two stars. I've lived in Anniston, Alabama for about eight years. If you like church and college football, then you will fit right in.


But that's all they do and talk about. They have zero night life and everything closes early. The food here is absolutely horrendous. The oh, they only have very greasy barbecue. That isn't even very good. The ribs have way too much fat on them and the pork is poor quality meat. You go to one place it is. I don't like the ribs there. This town sucks. Oh, it's all everybody. Greasy ass fucking ribs make your own food.


They undercook everything from eggs and toast to pizza. Stand is a policy in the town. The council passed this. Thou shall not cook things to temperature. They do not by the way. And this is all capital letters. Understand sarcasm at all.


I that I we now we know that.


We know that is true. We got that very true. Very true. That's there. There's an edge to some people and some small towns that and we're not saying Aniston's one of them, although honestly they're the only ones where some, like I said, provincial fucked Dick wrote a goddamn article because they were so offended by us reading statistics and the fact that your goddamn town is poison, you can't drink the fucking water. Sorry. Gee, sorry. They'd get out if they couldn't catch a deep breath.


Those 60 Minutes brought it up, not us. We just brought it on our audience about that. So, you know, we get it. We've been to some of these places where their sarcasm isn't a real big thing. They don't get it.


They look at you like you're like you're just being an asshole. Yeah, that's Arizona is like that, too, to be honest.


I'm sure you have to go kind of have to pick and choose your battles on a specialty, special, special directed anger. And it's usually around humor. Why are you being what's so funny to you. I damn joke. Yeah. Yes, it's kind of. Yeah, if it's not the only fucking place sucks.


So why do you why don't you have some hopefully or else I am going to be really poor for a long time. I'm going to die in the streets. Sorry guys.


Really that's all I have and this is the best ones I've got. That's the other thing. This is all I got. So this is all I got and it's all I have. So I don't know what I'm supposed to do. So they do not understand sarcasm at all. He has a theory though. I think that is due to poor education because the public schools are terrible. All right. Additionally, people do not understand the rules of driving, OK?


They will not switch lanes to allow you to merge. They do not know who has the right away and they do not yield to oncoming traffic. People also do not worry about the needs of others. If you go to a grocery store and try to go down an aisle, if someone is in your way, they will not care at all.


Well, I would like to remind this guy that if you're getting on the onramp, they have the right of way. Yeah. You slow down or speed up, motherfucker.


Yeah, yeah. But there's still a certain. Yeah. You know, I mean there's some there's a certain you get over it to let them on and that's true. Yeah. There's a certain I do have the right away from on the fucking freeway. A lot of times too, I've noticed that sometimes rural areas people will be extra friendly and sometimes rural areas they're not. It's almost like they're not used to having anybody around them. So they're really not friendly like that.


Like they don't. You think you're the only one on the road? Well, they don't. Yeah, this is my town. They don't understand social things because there's just not enough people around to understand social things. You're not put in that situation enough. That's rare. I'm not saying that's this because this isn't a town of like 300 people. There's enough people here not making excuses for these people. They might just be assholes. I'm not sure.


So people speaking of them, twenty two thousand ninety seven, the population is up to what it's declining. It's been in decline since the 80s. I think it's really sharply since about 2000. Right. About when that 60 Minutes piece came out, we brought that up on the first episode. Shocking. Yeah. People are like we're going to find out.


We heard Erin Brockovich had just come out fairly recently. She's poison, right? I mean, we should leave. Maybe we should call that woman and get the fuck out of here.


What the fuck that St. Phillips just said? No, he wasn't on Dateline.


Really Rose. Now, with the fuck that Hugh Downs just tell me. I think he was sixty minutes, right? I don't remember. I'm not old enough to watch 60 Minutes. Sorry, I never I never was I don't recall who's on it, yeah, I remember everyone was one hundred when I was a kid. Barbara Walters, who she used to interview everybody. She was the interviewer. And then I think Hugh Downs was the old guy.


OK, I'm Hugh Downs of 60 Minutes. We're about to tell you all the awful shit in the world for the next hour. Here it is. Buckle up quickly. Unemployment rate is high in this town. Household income is low. Fifty seven thousand and a half is about the usual. Here, it's thirty thousand thirty two thousand dollars. Median house, median household income, very low cost of living is one hundred is regular average.


Here it is. Seventy seven. But the housing is a forty one perfect median home cost ninety four thousand nine hundred dollars affordable. Excessively low. And if we've convinced you, damn it, the only place for you is Anniston, Alabama. You don't care about the the poisoned water. You don't care about any of it. You're ready to make a commitment. We have for you the Anniston, Alabama real estate report.


All right. Here we go. All right. Found some houses here and pieces of shit. Never mind renting out renting here. Now, these houses are so cheap. If you're renting, what do you get your shit together happen to you? Yeah, get your shit together. Get a gas station credit card for two months and you can buy one of these houses.


Your credit will be good enough. I'm telling you, trust me from a guy who's had problems, believe me.


So Anniston, Alabama, I found a three bedroom, two bath, eight hundred eighty nine square feet.


So not that nice house, good size house outside. I mean, it's clean, but it's it's like a light like Pepto Bisbal. Pink. Oh no.


With red shutters. He has dark pink. You got to worry about that.


Red shutters. Red shutters. Oh the pink. Forty nine thousand dollars deals. I mean you can paint your goddamn shutters for forty nine grand. Then I found a three bedroom, two bath. Twenty one hundred twenty four square feet. So again. Yeah a pretty decent size house. It's a good house for a couple of kids. Yeah. Some room for them. Decent inside. Decent house.


Fifty two thousand five hundred dollars. That is unbelievable.


Yeah. Because it's toxic. I mean don't get me wrong but still then I found let's say you run, you ran the PCB plant, you have poisoned everyone and have benefited greatly from it. I found a six bedroom, six bath table for everybody on each and every bill.


Eighty five hundred and fifty five square feet. What huge sick house.


Thirty one point sixty four acres around it. It's so much alabam insane.


Nine nine hundred seventy five thousand dollars. A million dollars. A million. Wow. What would that be in Paradise Valley. Oh that would be that many acres island of twenty one million dollars. That would be. And then you'd parcel the land, develop it and sell each house and billionaire for million dollars each.


Yeah. This is nine seventy five for wow. And insane. Like ridiculous. That's a ridiculous you know like that's showing your Alabama dick right there.


Yeah. That's like you were. I don't know who lives that Nick Saban would live there. Like you have to be like, you know, a retired NFL players 8000 that has at eighty five hundred square foot house. That's ridiculous.


How, how much house do you need? That's the governor right there. Something I don't know.


I got it. It's got to be the college football coach. Somebody that's very. Why would you go there to land in their contracts?


You get you can choose any house in the state. You can just kick the family out. They're happy to do it. It's they think of it as their patriotic alabam. An honor to leave for the Crimson Tide. It started with Bear Bryant back in the day. It's a tradition that's been going on for about fifty years now.


That's what they call the tide roll with. They roll your fucking tide family out, but they're allowed to keep your daughter, if they'd like, for any purpose. That's the other thing, too sexual or otherwise, it's really fine there. That's the law. Unless that tide's rolling and families go.


Come on, sweetie. Now, Nick Saban said you're cute, so you're going to have to go. That's disgusting. But it's not us. It's Alabama. It's it's a that's what happens next. Scott covid. James, you could die. Of course he does, doesn't he?


The one of the people running around. Yeah. Probably no such thing right now.


Everybody's got it. And he's lot the perfect. That's awful. I don't covid. I know, but he's got ALSA don't want him to have to pick up the children of the land. So he has Koven that. Oh yeah, definitely. If the choice is he has covered her you gots to have sexual interaction with little girls. I'm going to go with Colvert every time and then I really don't want him having any interaction with other girls, sexual or otherwise anyway.


Dalil, to deepen in that one, he did things to do in this town.


Not a lot as you might imagine, but I found some things to do. I found mainly this the Aniston Family Heritage Festival Music Content Concert. Now we always get a little worried that same uneasy, uneasy when we hear the word. Heritage in Alabama in the same sentence and family, you start to go, oh, no, this could be bad, right? But this isn't bad, really. No, it's not one of those. It's not a heritage festival.


I'm quotes, you know, it's more like like culture of everybody, because I understand one thing about and it's not just a white southern town. Right. As we've talked, Anniston, was that we did in the last episode as more than half black. So it's pretty much black and white is everybody that lives there. But so it's it's a it's very much mixed celebratin community. I guess so. Yeah. This one this was 20 nineteens because it wasn't going on this year.


They don't have acts booked for two thousand twenty one yet, so could have to go a twenty nineteen schedule. And it says that fun in the park includes something for all ages. Free Kids Zone Splash pad. Yeah.


Which sounds disgusting but I know what they're talking about. They are disgusting. You'll get giardia there.


Oh yeah, absolutely. That's the where you get it. You get gardell still just as bad. I loved Jordan.


It's good chocolate D.J. big sweat. OK with two T's. Yeah it's in June in Alabama so everyone there is going to be sweat. Whoever was deejaying is going to be a big Yeah. To worry about that. Food vendors come out with your lawn chairs and enjoy a day in the park with family and friends, tents allowed in designated areas only no personal grills allowed. OK, you got to tell everyone this isn't a fucking Auburn football game, right?


Calm down. We get it. You make good hot dogs. Yeah, it's fine.


It's great. Keep your greasy fatty ribs yourself. Music on stage begins at 4:00 p.m. and then we get into the acts. Now, I took a picture of one of the you know, there's a couple of little lineups of the pictures and it's I'm blown away by it because the same it doesn't feel like the same people would enjoy all of these acts, put it that way. Well, Jimmy, I'm going to show you the picture. Do you think that the same people are enjoying him?


Who enjoy them? Who is that guy? OK, there's a guy on the left named Tim McDonald. Stand from America, stand in front of an American flag with a trucker hat on and a denim vest and a denim jacket. And he's waving and somehow his wave is right there. Yeah, I don't know how he'll vote. It's like he's clearly his name is Tim McDonald. He's clearly singing country music. He's not going up there. I don't think it's a sweet freestyle that's not happening.


Probably hitting some Mos Def. No, I see a guitar neck next to him. He put his guitar down to wait, like, obviously, and then he's at four p.m. then at five p.m. is PWG and phase two.


And it's six black dudes, some of them who look like Preachers' wearing like Steve Harvey suits. Right. And some of them just dress normal of like hats on and shit like rag jeans and like regular clothes. Yeah, I don't know what the fucking theme is here. Exactly. Between Poo and phase two, they're all oddly Photoshopped. Look how badly this guy's Photoshopped out. His head's like lumpy from the Photoshop. Like the guy who did it has a shaky hand.


When he went around his had it trimmed him terribly and it just looks terrible. And then day break with two days after that, which is like it looks like a gospel RB group of like sixty year old black people.


Right. Like women right now.


These are women here. It's a bald guy with a beard, bald guy, bald guy. It's like five bald guys. Shaquille O'Neal apparently with his hat on there and like three women who seem to be the leader of the whole thing because they're interesting.


And that's day break. That's day break. OK, so if you sat there from four to seven, you'd see all three of those acts, which is a trip.


I can't imagine anyone liking all of those is solid, confusing, unless you just really love Alabama and everything that it has to offer. Maybe that's true. You just love in all of the heritage and the culture, the crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, obviously, it's gotten worse since last time. It's about the same, but it is a little bit worse, actually. Statistically, property crime, a property crime over three times the national average is very high on the property crime.


Wow. But violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime. Yeah, can't a property can't come close over four times the national average.


It is super violent crime. Yeah. That's why. Yeah. It's say it's on the most dangerous cities list. Wow. And it's on like all the worst, it's less like worst place to move, worst place to raise a family. Worst place to do this. Worst place to do that. Worst place to drink a glass of water out of the tap. Yeah. It's in a lot of worse, less chemically it's bad but that stuff mix in the actual people that live there and it's worse.


It's way worse. So that said, oh, let's talk about a murder, OK? That's why your property is so valueless.


That's well between the crime and the fact that everything is toxic. How who it's not a real attractive real estate market for people, you know, to come to.


That makes sense why they couldn't just pool their money and get sir mix a lot to play. They can't get anybody. They have to rely. On local show, they got Tim McDonald right? Like, if I heard him. Probably not what his name sounds familiar. No novelty owns those restaurants. Well, now, I don't know.


I don't know shit about country. I just know, like, what you like, you know, here real famous people or who's on the fucking voice or whatever.


This time I don't know anything about country music. So I know that guy is nobody. I don't know who. I don't even know who. I just mean whoever they put on there.


So I saw Tim McDonald and I saw him and I'm like a several famous like I thought about him like Tim McDonald. That song you and everybody in the town had the same thought. That sounds familiar. I think it sounds like country guy. Yeah. Like somebody could be in the top 10. Tim McDonald, of course.


Shit. I see him at the county fair from two years ago on the Opry Opera McDiven, and I've seen him and seen him there. Let's talk about a murder.


OK, now this story takes place in the 1970s in rural Alabama that that's when the actual murder takes place and when the whole crux of the story is that mid 1970s in rural Anniston, Alabama. So like all murder stories that take place in rural Alabama in the 1970s, where do we start? Marlow, New Hampshire in nineteen eighty three, obviously.


Yeah, right. That's where you Marlow, New Hampshire, nineteen eighty three. That's where West Side of the state.


That's where we're going to get tougher by Vermont guy over there. OK, so very good.


I'm getting my geography down. It's not bad. He knows Vermont. Yeah.


I don't know Vermont, New Hampshire, New Hampshire and yeah I see signs and freeways pointing that way and I'm like that seems like e still looking for oil property in Tallahassee, but he's I know Malo Malo as so it starts in Marlow, New Hampshire, which makes no sense, but it will make perfect sense in 1983 here.


Now there there's a man named John Hohman who lives there. Oh man. Is his name. And basically he was told that he was an FBI agent, came to him and told him that his wife is in custody of the FBI. And this man said, quote, There must be some mistake. He said, no, no, no, no. You definitely, positively don't have my wife in custody because my wife, Robbie, died three months ago.


Oh. So that would really be pretty amazing if she then committed crimes if you arrested her, right?


I buried her. Yeah. I like, you know. Yeah. You can find her obituary. It's in the newspaper.


How how'd you find her. That bag of dust. Yeah, I had her cremated so sprinkled her ashes over the lake behind my house. I don't know how you did that. It's amazing. Incredible. The water, what you do, sir. That's amazing. Wow. I don't know what this new police technology is. I've heard of the imaging when they find someone and they can recreate a face from a skull. But this is incredible.


You can suck dust out of lake and reanimate it and put it into custody. Unbelievable. Credible. Probably didn't happen, I would say.


He said, if, you know, if you have someone in custody, that's probably not my wife. That's probably my wife's sister, her twin sister. So that would explain why you thought it was my wife heard my sister's name is Terry. Her sister's name is Terry Terry Martin. And my wife's name is Robbie. So, you know, whatever she said. But she after my wife died, you know, she came up to help me out and she's been up here helping me out for the last couple of months.


So if you have anybody, I would assume that's who it is. They said, yeah, OK, maybe this is the FBI talking to the man says that's that's your sort of wrong and you're sort of on the money.


At the same time, they said the person that we have is definitely your wife, but there's more to it than that.


Oh, no. So let's talk about this. As a matter of fact, she's not your wife and she's not the her twin sister either. She's a completely different person.


OK, well, yeah, this isn't your wife that we have. It's not her twin sister either. It's somebody completely different than you thought it was. Who, by the way, isn't dead or a twin. She's a different person and we have her in custody. And that was his wife. That was the woman. He was married. Oh, my God. OK, that's how this story starts. Yeah, that's the beginning of this story.


The world is homeland OK for forty years. Oh, jeez. Yeah. No, he's not twenty or he's forty. These women are in their thirties. This is a this is a yeah.


These are adults right away.


Pardon. Yeah. Producer Dick Wolf. Dick Wolf. Fuck that. Executive producer Aaron Sorkin. This is a soap opera man. This is like if a soap opera started like this, you could get the fuck out of here. You change the fucking even if you watch, do you go young? And the Restless has lost their goddamn minds. I'm changing the channel. Yeah, this is real. This happened. OK, Amazon's Black Friday week is here.


So you can either shop last minute presence and be a Christmas nobody. Or up now and become a Christmas hero. Wow, this president ever Amazon's Black Friday week, 20th to 30th November Schupp. Now relax later.


So now let's leave that there, Marlow, New Hampshire, nineteen eighty three, John Home and what the fuck are you talking about? Sweet, sweet Jesus. OK, now let's go and we'll talk about some other people.


OK, let's talk about some people.


Let's talk about a man named Frank first, Frank Healy. Hi, Levi. He is born in 1930. Frank Kelly. So in the 70s will be in his 40s. He comes up and he lives in in Hoyt, Alabama, and then lives in Anniston. Is it the whole adult life? And he's an employee of the union foundry company. All right. He's a union man now. Union foundry guy. Yeah, well, it's the union foundry company, but he's also a union like Iron Man.


Yeah. And he and he he was in the Korean War, OK, conflict, whatever. He's in the Korean conflict. He's a member of the VFW, goes on down to there and drinks and smokes and does his thing. And so, I mean, he's if you're not from America, not from the states, that's Veterans of Foreign Wars, that's what they do. They go there and they drink cheap beer and somehow are still allowed to smoke in their indoors while they're holding their oxygen tanks.


It's amazing property. While we've sold, every comedian has done a show in a value.


When they first started, I did it in like my first four months of comedy while those old ladies in there are the best. If you get them going with some dirty shit. Oh yeah, horny get an extra oxygen because they're fucking they. Oh, that's hilarious.


It's very strange to be onstage telling a joke and then a puff of smoke goes into your face just like I can't believe this is still league.


That's great. I think it's all right. It was great. Fucking weird cause you can't it doesn't happen in a comedy club. No, no, no. It's it's true across the country. All those goddamn ladies, they were just so they were the funniest thing in the world. Because I remember I started my SAT and I did a couple of jokes that I was trying to be because they're all everyone in the room was over sixty five. So I was trying to be.


Not myself. Yeah, not first up. They were good. First couple of jokes. I said something off the cuff that was very filthy. I remember just out of like the frustration just for the comics to try to make myself feel better. And all the ladies laugh and I went, you like I said to them, you like dirty, do you?


Oh, they do.


And said, let's talk. Let's chat, ladies. And I started going, I know and I like these are my people love it.


So those are women that were married to guys like that. I mean, they were married. That that's that's why they're there. We treat them like the brushes and and I don't know how fragile the right fragile. They're not and they're not. And they have oxygen tanks. They're not fragile. I'm for new. I say dirty or. Oh yeah, they loved it. They fucking loved it.


They don't want to hear any corny shit. Yeah. They die by the way. We've talked. We'll talk about it after the show. But that guy did terrible that night. He didn't know he did the whole thing. And it was it was so funny. It was so funny man. They just looked at him like he was had three eyes, three heads of mine eyes fuck the sky.


So Frank Billy Frank is born in nineteen thirty and like we said, lived in Anniston. He in nineteen fifty one when he's twenty one years old. He meets a young lady, young lady who just graduated from high school and you know, from the Anniston area. And back then you know, you get married right away. This is nineteen fifty one. Yes. I mean if you were twenty and a lady they were like clock's ticking. I mean you're an old maid here.


Get yourself a house and buy a car with a man. Yeah.


You're supposed to be married off already. I mean back then and a guy is twenty one. It's like you start looking for a wife beater. What pal. Jesus Christ is going to settle down. Yeah. The fuck are you doing. You're going to be all dried up by the time it's ready to go here.


So he meets Audrey Marie Frazier, this young lady. She goes by Marie though she never uses Audrey. Yeah, it's always Marie. She's born in 1933 and she's from this area. She is from the Blue Mountain area, which is kind of where Aniston encompasses in that area. And it's she grew up, I guess where she is is right by the linen thread company where that was the it's had a big it's a big cotton mill with big brick buildings.


And it's right in the center of town. That's the center of their town is a cotton mill. Good Lord not, you know, the movie theater or the, you know, some restaurants or city hall or a park or something. There's something nice to look at. Cotton Mill. There it is. That's yeah. That's a gander at this. This is what we're interested in here.


So she was the only shoes. She grew up around here and trying to make her way. She was a student at Edison High School and was just kind of she wasn't like, you know, all by herself or anything like that. But she wasn't really part of a group or part of anything. She wasn't in any extracurriculars. All right. You know, like she wasn't a cheerleader or she wasn't considered like this or she wasn't, you know, on the debate team or anything like that.


She just kind of functional outcast, just kind of not even an outcast. She just kind of floats through. She's a pretty girl, but she's not like. Anything that like that people are knocked out by or anything that's not to judge or I'm just mean. That's how she describes it as she grows up and, you know, people around her and her family, that she just wasn't a knockout or anything like that. She was just a kind of a normal girl in high school, but nothing popular or unpopular.


Nobody made fun of her, that sort of thing.


So she she's in this area. She her she wasn't that popular. Like I said, though, that's the thing. Her mother and father would leave her with her grandmother for weeks at a time as a child. And this made her feel kind of unloved, I guess. And she told people that she told her friends, like, my parents don't even love me. They leave me for like a month.


And the rejection of that alone is fucking horrible. Yeah, kids don't get that.


No, it's not like you could face time with them back in the day. And I mean, they probably wouldn't even talk on the phone right back then. They might. You could you want to write mom and dad a letter like that.


That's as good as it got, I think, in that shit in the mail. Yeah. Nineteen fifty one. They're not going to pay long distance to Aniston. So she felt that her parents and especially her mother didn't love her, though she had an issue with her mom big time and her a friend of hers or relative actually named Frieda Adcox. She'll come up later.


She remembers that that Marie would try to become friends with for some reason on the east side of town, there's a bunch of people with bigger houses. That's where, like all the rich people live, the people who own and ran the mill, I guess.


And she would try to make friends specifically with those kids who lived there, like she tried to make friends with all the rich kids for some reason, like she's aiming at birthdays.


That'll give better parties. Yeah, much better birthday parties or just just a place to go. Trick or treating. Maybe they give out full sizes over here on this side of town. It's Snickers time over on the east side. So, yeah, they did that though. She would. But it was a weird like a that's a strange thing for a child to try to, like, socially climb specifically as a kid. You don't give a shit about that.


Like maybe that one kid has a ton of video games and he's a rich kid. So you want to hang out with him because he has video games.


He's got so much room that we ride dirt bikes in his backyard. Yeah, but it's not because he's you know, it's not for our aulani status as a child. We just want to ride a dirt bike.


Also, that kid's kind of for nothing. Not for nothing. He's kind of a dick. Yeah. Likes to hang out with well, he's always an asshole.


He knows that you dirt bike. Right. So I don't have that and that he can hold that fuck. Exactly.


I still got weed. What do you. That's the dirt bike. I bring weed up. Fuck you.


I want your dirt bike. I'm stoned. I'm riding the dirt bike.


Ten minutes in your back yard before we start taking bong reps is stupid.


So yeah. Strange other freeda said it was weird and it never amounted to anything either. He you would make a little bit of friends but she was never like in she could never get in with a group that was her thing. Like she'd always try and that was the rich kid group was the one she really tried to infiltrate and just never really amounted to much. And so she graduates in nineteen fifty one and that's when she gets married right away to Frank and he is his father was also a foundry worker.


So I mean this is just know it's what his family does and it makes pretty good money. You're doing a good job. I mean he's a that's a he's lucky to have that job to get to high school and get in a foundry worker. That's what everybody in a town like this wants in nineteen fifty, you know, so they get married very quickly. He has a job as an iron worker, like we said, and in nineteen fifty three they have a child already.


So this is the fifties man. This is what you do. First child is a son named Mike. Yeah. He comes out, they end up giving birth in nineteen sixty to a daughter named Carol and that is when, when she's pregnant with Carol, when she starts to kind of become a little bit different. Her relatives said she started acting a little bit strange around that time when her during her second pregnancy. And I mean a lot of people, if you're pregnant, there's a lot of stuff going on inside your body that, you know, you can't always control what's happening sometimes.


So, I mean, there's a I hate to say it like that because it's almost like, oh, what are you on your period or something like, you know, pregnant women are.


I have our hormonal and emotional. They just are they'll tell you that I'm hormonal today. Get me this and that and turn the air conditioning down to fifty eight. Like, what the fuck is happening? Who are you? You know, maybe that's but that's what happens. It's not their fault. They're just jet battered. And then as a dude, as a father, you've got to sit there and look at this woman who's going through all these changes.


And then in my head, I'm going. At some point she's got to try to get a fucking baby out. Yeah. Yeah, I know.


So I guess I'll turn crazy shit. I guess I'll turn the air conditioning down to fifty eight. Will that help. Yeah. Well that helped get it out faster. Easier. Yeah kind of. I was just more panicked about that. I can't believe that's a thing. That's crazy. It's off. That's the plan. You think that like something new would open up.


Yeah. Could have a better way of doing this. The belly button opens in, the baby just walks on out like a garage door. Yeah. It falls out, starts taking steps like a deer. Within 15 minutes, I think that's how it should work, so as a sign up afterwards, it finds some sort of cookbook somewhere and cooks its own fucking food.


I'm sure women wish they would be like that, too, but I have a feeling. So she started to get a little bit odd. Odd in terms of saying weird things at weird times. Yeah, that didn't seem to have any sense.


Also, she would take what they called aimless nighttime strolls, like she'd just walk out two o'clock in the morning and kind of go for a stroll, walk around in her fucking nightgown while through the streets she wrote letters to herself, which is some people write themselves notes or like, you know what I want to do or things like that.


This is different. She wrote notes to herself from imaginary lovers, people that she didn't wasn't it doesn't exist.


Don't exist. Yeah, no. These are imaginary people and left them around so her husband would find them. Oh, what is that? So that's what I mean. I don't know what the either the psychology of that is either, either she needs the struggle or wants the fight or she wants to try to, you know, manipulate him.


That's nurture it makes her feel, you know, more adequate or more self esteem thing.


Is the giggle worth it to, like, watch a man melt down inside in the 50s by not paying attention to her.


And she feels like maybe if I do this, then he'll get jealous and say, is this a last resort of of just loneliness or desperation? Who knows, you know what I mean? Or is that all interpreted through the through the you know, the beer goggles of hormonal ness of pregnancy is that, you know, who knows, you know, through that kaleidoscope, is that coming out like that? And, you know, we don't know.


I just feel bad for Frank. Well, yeah, man. Oh, it's messed up. Like, what are you doing? Why are they, like, graphic, like fan fiction? I know you don't know the 60s, so, I mean, who knows? It was probably just, my dearest, whatever the fuck, maybe it was dirty. I don't know. But I think he's sitting there going, why are so why are you fucking someone with your handwriting?


First of all, this is the most feminine. The two of you. He's talking about pound in here all weekend and it's in a really feminine really. I mean, there's a heart over and I hear I don't believe him.


Hamade, be honest with you. The heart. That's not me. I don't buy it for a second. So, yeah, they really weird things. But most of the time this is just weird little, little episodes. This wasn't every day. OK, so they thought she was pretty normal. Just a good person, good wife, good mother, you know, because this is by 60 standards we're in cheer up bitch times. This is not what we're talking about.


They'd look at her and go, Oh, that's a good wife. She takes her kids to church on Sunday. Look at that. Right. Good for her. You know, that's what they would do. So when she's pregnant at this time with the second one. Yeah. Then she has the second one and her behavior continues to be a little strange, but manageable here, as we'll talk about for a little while.


So she's got the two kids, like we said, Michael born in fifty three, Carole born in sixty. And she wants to be more of like a society person than she is. She spends more money than they have. He makes a pretty good salary, but they don't have any savings or anything like that because they're they're always kind of in debt. She spends a lot she wants to live a different lifestyle than she does this girl.


That's I mean, everybody that's everybody among us. Exactly who the fuck doesn't. Right. Thank you. So, I mean, that's nothing to be mad at her for June, January 22nd. Nineteen sixty five is in the newspaper in the Andersons Anniston Star, which is where a lot of stuff comes from here.


I think that that might be I think that's where he wrote from it. It's the only paper there. That's the one that's they have a lot of information came from on this case. So good for the Anniston Star. So there you go, them in the Atlanta Journal Constitution and a great piece tonight. I'll say the author on it. Right. So you're getting your credit. January 22nd. Nineteen sixty five is in the newspaper. It's the title is A Little Girl is Honored.


Oh, and it's Mrs. Frank. Hilly entertains her daughter Carole with a party in celebration of her first of her fifth birthday anniversary. So they put like a notice in the paper, like in the society page of them having the birthday party for the little girl. So that's yeah, that's what she you know what I'm saying? She requires and thrives and she wants to be in society and be like she has a certain idea of who she wants to be and she's trying to get there, which that's fine.


Is that fucked up that she wanted all that credit? She got it. And it's Mrs. Frank Hilly.


Yeah, but back then, I get it. That is why I hate that. Yeah, I realize that's so stupid.


I don't want to the it's so weird that I was like, this can't even have a name. Right. It's like exactly what that is. Haken the last name is one thing, but you don't even have a first name now it's just so weird.


You're Mrs. Yeah. That's your name Miss. Creepy shit. I don't like it. Back then it was just not even thought of. I guess there was a there's a point of pride James because. Because I'm. That's why it's so I guess so, yeah, I got him, and I want you to know that I've got him so bad that I emrs that guy. I'm like all the ladies down in the secretarial pool.


I got someone to make dinner for everyone. I take speed so my house is clean. That's right. When I'm sad, they tell me, cheer up bitch. And I do and I'm happy to do happy to do it.


If it is your first time listening, that's an inside joke and we are being very sarcastic. So in case you're from Madison and you don't know what sarcasm, we were just defending women not being misogynist.


Exactly. So you never know. Like I said, they don't understand sarcasm and honesty and we might have a couple of people that don't, you know, so then goes on to say the affair took place at their home, doesn't even like it was like at somewhere's the kid's birthday, a five year old's birthday party at their house. And that's not there's no reason to waste newsprint on that. It's called the press. They called the press. Children enjoyed games and contests with prizes going to Christie.


Perry, good for you. Sounds like a birthday party. Five year olds pin the tail on the donkey. It's in the fucking newspaper. Colorful balloons and decorated decorate the house for the occasion. That sounds like they bought the symptoms and guests were presented but were presented party favorite. Yeah, really? That's it. Now, if they say they're cake, there's cake, I'm not going to believe it. If they tell me the little girl blew out the candles, I will not.


That's where I know they're embellishing. Let's see here because they're pizza and ice cream. Let's find out. Let's find out. Party refreshments were served from a table centered with a white birthday cake decorated in pink and topped with five burning. Can really. I'm surprised at that. Really? Honestly, that's really fascinating. Really weird. Mrs. UEE Frazier and Mrs. Clarence Hilly, those are Frank and Marie's parents assisted the hostess and entertaining. And friends of the honoree present included Donna and Missy.


How do they go on to list a bunch of children, one of which is one of which is Eric Swan with two N's. I believe the defensive end for the Cardinals for years might have been him.


I don't know. Was he born? I was born. Might be him year. So I was there. He ate all the food. He turned out to be six foot seven.


So now once Carol starts going to school. Yeah, you know, she's five, starts going to kindergarten, starts right about after this time.


They think this is when she really starts to get a little and Marie starts getting on, though, because a little more a little fucking are here for a minute. She's a little crazy, you know.


I mean, I get it. I don't know what's going on inside of her body or anything else around inside of her mind and feel bad for anybody that's got anything going on like this.


But she has nothing, no problems really until after Carol comes. And that's when it just gets so weird. They think that maybe, like, she ends up going to psychiatrists and they think that maybe she resents her daughter's birth because her daughter gets more love than she did when she was a kid. And like she gives the daughter a bunch of love and then she gets mad at herself and resents the kid for getting that much love that she gave the kid.


Oh, God, yeah. It's a fucked up circle, which in her mind, that's got to be a horrible place to live with that circle going on all day. No one wants to be there. And then for a kid, you don't have any idea what's going on, because one minute she's so nice to me. She's oh, here's this beautiful party. You're going to put it in the paper the next minute. She's resenting you for because of the party that she had for you and you had nothing to do it.


So it's that's hard.


I didn't pick the cake. I didn't I would have I didn't need candles. I didn't have to be pink. I don't even like her. It's fine.


Yeah. He didn't have to bring Eric's one over here. He's huge. He's going eat all my cake. I know it. So that's what they kind of think. So she goes back to work at this point and she goes back to work always as a secretary, secretarial positions that are like close to people who are in charge of shit like she's always the secretary for, like, you know, the owner of the company, like an executive assistant.


Oh, yes.


Always to, you know, kind of influential men in the community.


But on top of that, Rose is with Tom.


Right on top of that, she was the executive secretary for Harold Musk. Oh. Who sounds like his balls stink. Yeah, president of the First National Bank of Anniston. Wow. Look at that. She worked for Jim Standridge, head of the Anniston Waterworks. Oh, my. Yeah. And she was secretary for Lucian Lence, not Lucian. Let's.


Holy shit, devil. Well, now I get it. Yeah.


And Leonard Roberts as well, both executives, that class Rebin works, so. Yeah. And she was also secretary for Clair Draper, president of Dresser Industries, and they didn't make Dresser's. Her name is Draper Clair Draper. She does dresses, dress dressers. Oh dress dresser industries.


That's the name of it. She once modeled for Lence and did like some modeling for her, for his whatever the fuck he was doing. Now, Leonard Roberts, remember that name for later, by the way. Now to talk a little bit about her, you'll need to know this for later. She's a small woman to marry. She is five foot tall, 100 pounds, tiny, tiny, tiny little brown hair, green eyes, little tiny woman, little tiny Southern, real heavy Southern drawl.


You know, that little tiny, tiny one around town at 2:00 a.m. when her pregnant pregnant is shit wandering the streets up to a very strange.


Now people her family said she would spend too much money. They all said that she spent too much money all the time, like we said. And then bills would come for things that she bought because you could just buy things back then they believe you should buy. She get a credit card, put it on that when bills would come, she would hide them from Frank. So she had like a problem with that, with spending, and then she would hide it.


And there's a lot of people to do that. Marriages, that's if you spend it, you've got to pay it.


Don't hide it. Well, that's good. But that's a really common thing that happens. It's excessively common. And somehow she'd always managed to pay things off without him knowing about it. Good for her. That's how it worked. Well, the problem was how she got the money was a little we don't really know Frieda there. We talked about her nervous and she was that she was a child, said, quote, She could get money whenever she wanted it and she would often come home.


She would work late, quote unquote, for a couple hours and then come home with eight hundred to twelve hundred dollars in cash. That's not in the early 70s, which is like, you know, two weeks, a month's pay in 1970 as a secretary.


That's like two hours.


It's like a month's pay. Yeah. And she'd come home and she said that it was for extra typing. I don't know how much she would have to type in nineteen seventy three to make twelve hundred dollars, but it would be a massive amount, a fucking massive the minimum wage was like what was like two dollars an hour back then. I mean are you kidding me. Not that you should get paid minimum wage for that, but even if you're at ten times minimum wage, how long is it going to take you to make.


Twelve hundred dollars. They don't pay you CEO salary to know generally even at twenty bucks an hour. Wow.


That's more than 40, 40 hour work week of just type. And she'd come home for forty hours worth of typing in two hours. James that's that's a bad ass. Well yeah.


Well there was, there was a lot of rumors that she was having affairs with her bosses. A lot of the times, as a matter of fact, we'll find out that Frank actually found out about one of these trysts. And actually it might it may or may not have walked in on one of them.


So that's a problem as well. Yeah, at one point.


So but it's not because she doesn't like Frank. It's about Distending. She wants the money. Yeah, she needs the money and she likes the status of it. And so that's what she does. So it's a really odd she's got a really weird psychological makeup going on here.


It's a it's strange. It really as we've we've talked about a lot of murders and this one's kind of everything she does.


You're like for four months. That's a weird thing, OK?


I mean, I, I mean, generally people in prostitution or any sort of sex work are doing it for the money because they like it.


Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, absolutely.


It's not this isn't like oh this is my, my life's work here. But they don't generally run a day job and then they're like, you know, I'd really just like to get a better couch. I don't have. Yeah. But what I do have. Yeah that's that's, that's a fucking weird it's a strange thing.


I mean I guess her bosses would die. Yeah. She, she could get them to give her a few bucks and I don't know if it was a direct quid pro quo or if it's just she's having an affair with them and she, you know, she needs a little money to give them some money because, you know, you do that with people you're close to, whether you're fucking them or not, especially if you're that close. If you're that close where you're inside of them, you should probably if they need a couple of bucks, help them out.


You know what I mean? From that. Yeah, from that from that proximity. And if yeah. From that proximity, it's right around the corner, you may as well you might as well stay right. That.


So apparently though her she liked, she liked, like when she'd have there'd be like, you know, events at these companies and stuff she like that sort of thing because it made her feel more kind of high society. She would be like, you know, close. She couldn't afford jewelry she couldn't afford and shit like that. One of her family members said, quote, Frank always stayed within his class, but Marie had to go to the best stores.


That's what they said.


They said that, you know, but, you know, years passed by and the marriage is still a solid, though somehow. Right? Frank works a lot. And I don't think it's now like when people talk back then people just came home, they ate dinner, they watch some TV and they went to bed.


They real feelings that what fuck you're feeling I'm going to bring up. It's I mean, it was not you're going to bring up some guy who works at the fucking iron foundry and was in the Korean conflict. You're going to bring up feelings. He's going to you can bring up your feelings, but he's not going to sit there and talk about feelings with you for five hours till one o'clock in the morning and cry with you. And he. You can say it's a different kind of person, but lonely and the lonely he felt is entirely different from yours.


And I was in the fucking I was in Korea, but I was not lonely back then, too.


They wouldn't he would have said, you got the kids like that. So, like, that's company like, oh, thanks people I have to take care of and do shit for. Yeah, that's that's a lot of I really don't have them. Sixteen's shooting.


Yeah. Jesus Christ. Are the kids Korean. Let me ask you that now. Exactly. You're born in Alabama. So everything was kind of normal. Frank ends up being promoted to a supervisor at the foundry, bringing in more money, which is good and kind of makes everything a little bit better and makes her a little bit happy. Mike ends up going to college, as we'll talk about. He goes to seminary, college and gets married. And we'll get to that in a minute.


I have that the announcement of the marriage to. Right. But the problem is that oh, also he's going to he's going to go to, like I said, seminary, college, the son to be a preacher. That's what he wants to be at the Christian church in East Point. Georgia is where he ends up. Now, Marie is worried about her daughter, though big time. Her daughter, Carol. Let me show you, this is a family portrait.


Now, what a look at that family. Yeah, it looks like a television show. That's Frank and her. That's Frank. Yeah, that's Marie. Yep, that's Carole.


And that's at Mike, Mike, Mike and Carole. Both kids are gorgeous. Michael's gorgeous. Mike looks like a TV star. He looks like he's on Baywatch. He's got like long, long flowing, flowing. This is like nineteen seventy two, right. Yeah. He looks like he should be on like some television. Makes it great. He's tall, right. Carol's a pretty girl. She's, she's shorter like her mom, but she's a very pretty girl.


You well and you know these other kids at this point. She's a teenager but a family. Yeah. Very nice family here. The Good Stuff. And so you can see the family. But Carol, apparently Marie started telling all her family and friends that she was worried about Carol. OK, well, when she's in her early teens in nineteen seventy three nineteen seventy four, because she thinks that Carol is showing a sexual preference for women, as she put it, that's how she put it to a friend of hers.


In quotes she believes it's that Carole is into girls and she is very concerned about that because it's Alabama and it's nineteen seventy three and they go to church every week and you know, yeah, there's not a lot of open mindedness for a book. Told me this is bad. Yeah. Yeah. This is not a lot of open mindedness for that.


Back then it just, just wasn't in the south and it's just not even in the south everywhere. Yeah. I mean there was some acceptance in some places, but it was really not there. Little bubbles man. Yeah. And little bubbles. So it wasn't even established if that was what she was really thinking at the time. This was just what Marie thought. So August twenty fourth, nineteen seventy four is when Michael gets married. Frank was his best man.


Oh that's awesome. Oh yeah. That's Frank. So they lay all the kids love Frank everybody. Frank seems like a good guy here. So you know, they had all of that. They had a little kid do the ring bearing very nice.


May nineteen seventy five. OK, this is when his son, this is his son Michael, is in college doing the training to be a preacher. And, you know, that's all that's going on over there. And he's in East Point, Georgia, and Frank visits his son Michael in East Point. He complains to Mike about feeling sluggish and tired. He's not feeling very well lately. And, you know, kids like, I don't know, what are you in your 40s to start to feel sluggish?


What do you want from me? You know, I mean, it's what it is. People still love the old Louis C.K. joke where he goes and he's my ankle hurts and he goes. It's just shitty now. For now. How old are you? Yeah. That's why you're in your 40s, dude. It's just things are just suck now. Yeah. Things just suck now, you know.


I know. That's just that's the one you guys just shitty.


Now deal with it. Yeah. It's going to hurt for a while. I don't want to tear up it. It's, it takes some Advil etc. and then they get older. Yes. It's like I don't know your, your body's fucked up. Look at me. Look at you. You know, you can see it in the mirror. It's breaking down. What do you think's happening on the inside. Do you think that's only on the outside but the inside.


Inside pristine. Oh yeah. And if you look at the outside of a banana peel and it's fucked up that bananas fucked up to, that's what it's going to mirror. Image that shit pretty good. Pretty good chance is the inside looks about the same color. Maybe you are right, you know that doesn't look good to the inside either. No it now and if you're older and that's how things happen, that's natural progression.


That's you got it from that. But I, I Google things now and I know that just by Googling like that I know full well I'm like super tired, I am I sick. And then it always brings up that I've got cancer. So right now I'm worried about Frank. Yeah.


Everybody, everything is cancer. So that's the thing. I'm terrified. What do you feel? A little sore throat. Well, that's obviously cancer. Clearly everything. Yeah, I've heard every little tiny ailment somebody had has eventually been. Oh. And then they turned out to. Cancer, so, you know, you have to that's why everybody just shrugs. I don't fucking know. I'm sure I'm dying. It's going to end. Sure, I'm dying now.


So he visits his son. He complains. He's feeling sluggish and tired. And a few days later, well, after he gets home, Frank leaves and goes home. He calls his son and tells him that he has something very important to discuss with him. But he has to talk about it the next time he sees him the next weekend because he can't discuss it over the phone, which is. Yeah, I mean, what do you got to the Lufthansa heist?


What are you doing?


Exactly what are we planning here? Hey, we're taken out a rival preacher. What's going on? I need to talk to you, but not on phones. Yeah. You know, then when I do talk to you, cover your mouth. I remember watching in the casino, smoke a cigarette, cover your mouth, bring it, bring a toothpick. And everything is obscure there.


But you got to put in your mouth always. So yeah.


He's so over the phone. Yeah. What are you going to kill the preacher who's currently employed at East Point so you can get in there? What's going on? The supervisor ahead of him at the plant. You need another promotion. Help me sign. I want to talk to you about something, son. I'm not a big fan. Eisenhauer let's talk.


Let's talk. I know that was a long time ago, but still it's fine. Let's talk about Watergate. It may in nineteen seventy five. Yeah. It's just Nixon was like, yeah, well that's a sudden water. We're told that one of Nixon's resigning. I know. Crazy. So nineteen seventy five in May continues to persist. He doesn't feel good. He doesn't feel good. Little worse all the time. Sluggish, all that sort of shit.


So finally May twenty third, nineteen seventy five he goes to the hospital and he's admitted into the hospital on just based on his symptoms and doesn't look good and based on the lab work they do they it shows acute liver malfunction which is not great. And they diagnosed him with hepatitis infectious hepatitis. So yeah that's bad.


Obviously it isn't a treatment because he didn't even know he had it. He just is getting worse and worse and worse. Yeah. Is the liver just getting all fucked up and know he was just walking around, you know, thinking he feels sluggish because he's in his 40s and he's an ironworker. So it's like, yeah, I've put a lot of miles on my body. Probably kind of wish you had Google Henao. Right. Don't you know Salvano now that's that's rough.


So about a week and a half later, he comes back and he's admitted to the hospital again. And, you know, it's still hepatitis at this point. He is vomiting and hallucinating. He's he's picking up bed sheets and reading them like they were a newspaper.


Oh, yeah. When I say hallucinating, wow. That's how that's what I'm saying.


Not not always there, you know. Do you see a shadow over there? He's like, did you see the Mets lost today?


And they're like, that's his pillow case. What the fuck is he talking about? Is my fellow. Yeah. Talking about his daughter's birthday.


Yeah, well, it was pancake. You see what these bastards in China are doing.


They're like he's reading his broccoli right now. Let's go. He picked his plate up and he just said that the Chinese. Attacked Vietnam with its just on broccoli. I don't know what he's talking about. He just picked up his three hundred and told me Eric Swann came to his daughter's birthday. Super strange. Very, very private to me, picking up like this.


There are newspapers also reading off it like that.


I like talking and they're like, whoa, this is they're like, do you see something is to read the newspaper just holding the sheets that while it's horrible, but there's nothing I can do about it. So am I a piece of shit for enjoying that? Oh, no, no, no. Plus, this is this happened 45 years ago. So let's be realistic here. Yes. Is it bad? Do we feel terrible?


Absolutely. Is that crazy? Is amazing. That's insane. That's wild. That that happened at all in the on the on the earth. Here I was. I was there. Oh, man. That's sick right there. If you're doing that. He was talking to people who didn't exist. No. Yeah. Really hallucinating.


Bad handing out pink slips to phantom employees. He's hiring people. Fuck out of here. Literally. He was handing people napkins when they were fire.


Just people that were like visiting at the hospital, like visiting other people. Hey, you're fired. They were like, from what? I'm unemployed anyway.


I've had enough of you, Todd, and your shit attitude. Yeah, that seems to and I don't know what you're talking about.


Well, I would be close. At least I could have gone with Beyler. You just heard me introduce myself. You hear that. Yeah, I got it wrong. Got it wrong. Now so what happens when you're reading the newspaper off the sheets.


So he's firing invisible people sometimes not even people who existed, sometimes people that were there. And sometimes he just yell at the air and go, God damn it, you're doing a terrible job, you're fired. And I have a napkin to nobody. But that is awesome. Which is amazing. Yes. Yeah, I look at that and I'm just like, wow, I would oh, I go out. Yeah, I want to go hang out with that every day to see what happens.


My kids will visit me if I'm pulling that shit.


Yeah. They'll just be filming it. Your son will be filming it.


I'm going to be the biggest Tic-Tac star ever with this shit because wow, I fucked some guy singing Fleetwood Mac. I don't want to see that.


My dad reading them, just literally reading the entire World Report section on a sheets is awesome in front of him.


So he would do that. He tossed and turned, fidgeted and then he kept a memory was there most of the time she would sleep in the chair next to him in the hospital bed. And, you know, he but he just kept getting worse and worse and worse and they would treat him and he kept getting worse and worse and they didn't understand it. And this happened over the course of a couple of days.


It got like from one thing to the next. He was just I mean, he was kind of sick. One day next day, he was shouting out, you know, reading the funny pages off the office shpilkes. So literally what happened? And then finally on, I believe, May 25th, here he is. I'm sorry, May. Twenty seventh. He he dies in bed now, just lying there with Marie next to him in the chair.


And the doctor was like, they didn't understand it at all really. They didn't get it. It was just like it's sometimes people don't take the treatment. But for it to progress this quickly was really beyond the scope of normal. They said patients don't usually die from hepatitis two days after they're admitted into the hospital.


Right. Hepatitis is vicious, slow. It takes a long time.


It's a very slow killer. Yeah, it takes a while, but they actually. So he requested an autopsy. The doctor asked the wife, do you mind if we do an autopsy? Morissa there. Sure. Go ahead. Knock yourself out. They do an autopsy and it confirms that he did indeed indeed die of hepatitis. So they said that's just weird. It just died of hepatitis.


I don't know, you know, swelling of the kidneys and lungs, bilateral pneumonia and inflammation of the stomach and do odina the cause of death was determined to be infectious hepatitis. Everything from the autopsy report.


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So that's some official shit right there. What are you going to do? Funeral goes down after that, obviously, and everybody's very sad. Frankston forgot them, 43 years old right there. Forty five years old. And he was a everybody liked him. He was a supervisor down at the foundry, had a lot of friends. Kids loved him. The best man at his son's wedding. I mean, you know, it's a very sad day for everybody in Anniston here.


So a few weeks after that, Marie gets at the union foundry, gets he has a life insurance policy through work through the foundry. So they pay out Marie thirty one thousand dollars, thirty one thousand one hundred forty five dollars. They get for that was built up in his life insurance account is probably a portion of the salary or a full year salary.


They might be with something like that. That's probably a little much back then for a year on thirty one thousand. That's Jesus Christ.


That's like, you know, two hundred grand or something. I don't think he's making that. But I think that was every year it went up the policy that you weren't true. He worked there since nineteen fifty one might two years salary. Yeah. Who knows what it is but it's, that's what it is. So that's his life insurance thing for her. So that's pretty much what she's got at this point. She has skills. She's a very good secretary.


Everybody says that she's type's fast, she's really good with people. She's smart, she's knows what she's doing. She can run business. She's good stuff so she can make it on her own. But she's got this a little something to start out with. What's good for her.


She people said though, her she got really weird right around there right now.


Real weird, they said, which was normal because, yeah, that's going to happen. Like if you just had a kid and your body's going through changes, you're going to have strange people give you a wide berth on that because it's natural. Right. And with this, if your husband dies especially unexpectedly and quickly of a weird sickness at forty five. Yeah.


Like that's a and he's the breadwinner and you've got two kids, you need to figure out what to do. Even the ones off.


Yeah. Do you've been with them since you were eighteen. Right out of high school and married this guy. So this is all you've ever known as your parents and then this guy. So that's the only people you've ever lived with. So it's just you would be it would be understandable for her to be a little bit, you know, out there for a while here.


But her stuff was really weird. She they said they weren't normal grieving widow things that she did. It was just weird shit. Every night she'd fall asleep on the couch with a crowbar next door. Oh, a crowbar. Really weird. She was all paranoid and full of herself. Yeah. Which I don't know if that's going to protect you from hepatitis. Oh, she moved away. She moved from house to house in town. Six addresses in four years.


Same town in the same area. Yeah. Just moving all around. Always away. Kind of always closer to the east side of Anniston, though, where she wanted it to be, but never all the way over there because she can't afford it, but always a little bit closer.


Every single time she would stare, they said stare at the mirror for hours at her reflection, just stare in the mirror. People thought, you know, that's that's odd. All the moving, the crowbar staring in the mirror. But nobody wanted to bring it up because they were like, she's obviously going through something. It's her husband. And back then now it would be findability. Hey, see, you're struggling like, you know. Yeah, right.


Like that would be OK to do. Now, that's a good friend, actually, whereas back then that was considered invasive and none of your business and, you know, you're you're telling that person they're crazy and they don't want, you know, the different thing back, that mental health was way more of a private embarrassing quote unquote thing back then.


Whereas now it's isn't that shouldn't be right. You don't talk to us about ever talk to everybody else about it. Yeah, that's what they did. Yeah. Go talk to the fucking pastor about it. Yeah. Go talk to her and be like, can I help you. That's what I mean. Don't go get medical help. Legitimate. So as difficult man. So they didn't want to do that then. The thing is they started, they found letters from Marie to Mandy.


Oh. Who is a who.


She was saying it was an imaginary sister in Texas. Oh no. She made up an imaginary sister named Mandy. She doesn't have a sister named Mandy in Texas. Nobody in her family lives in Texas either. She has an imaginary sister in Texas that she's writing letters that she's getting writing letters to. Awesome. So it's a little bit weird. And people are like, OK, like her, you know, a little bit strange. She calls the cops a lot about well, from nineteen seventy seven in nineteen seventy nine, she made at least sixty calls to the Anniston Police.


Jesus. Sixty. Wow. That's a shit load.


You might as well just park somebody on her street. She's going to call eventually. It's going to happen today. Yeah.


She made at least sixty calls, all of them to complain about peeping toms, extortion threats, weird fires that would pop up. There's multiple fires at her house. Very strange. One began in her bedroom closet. Oh. And she was like, it's a mysterious fire. That is probably. You set something on fire. Now, like I said, I don't know if this is if she needs attention because at this point her son is gone, he's married and he's a preacher in Georgia.


Her husband's dad and her daughter at this point is 17, 18 years old. So what happens then? Right. She has her own life. She has her own things. So she's empty nest and lighting a shit on fire.


Yeah, that's I mean, I think I'm not positive, but it seems like she's lonely and calling the cops and she wants attention from the cops. Possibly. I mean, psychologically, that makes sense. But I'm not a doctor. So what do I know? Also, death threats. And she would report obscene phone calls as well, obscene phone calls and death threats over the phone.


So all of those things at one point, the police actually set up a sting operation to catch whoever was calling her over and over. They set everything up. They had equipment all set up and taps. And this was a big deal in nineteen seventy eight. This is like a giant machine and a thing. And there was like four guys operating in my line for eight minutes, eight minutes. And we can find out the zip code. Right. OK, another fifteen and we can get down to a city block.


OK, great. Gordon Liddy is hiding in her closet. If we then fly a plane out of that city block, we might be able to get it down to a better possible location. Probably not, but it's possible. And if he does this 30, 40 times, we might get a license.


We can get it on possibly go. Keep going. So the police officer said, quote, The day the day the equipment was on, the calls would cease. The day after the equipment was taken off, the calls would start again. Oh, interesting, guys. Clever.


Yeah, very clever. The mastermind then turns out a couple a couple of years after the money was there, a lot of the money was all gone. She spent all the money. She ended up with an additional policy. She ended up with about forty two thousand dollars altogether out of Frank's death. And it was all gone very quickly. And her son Mike said, I don't know where the money went at all. He she he told a relative, I don't know what she did with it, just vanished, moved around a lot and bought crowbars, I guess.


I don't know. So December 21st, nineteen seventy five is when Michael Hili is ordained. And that was in the paper as well. And he's a pastor there or whatever he is.


Minister April nineteen seventy nine. Carol is nineteen years old, young Carroll. She gets sick in church on Sunday. In April of 1979. Yeah. Normal. So she had been at a party the night before. She had a couple of Tom Collins and, you know, puffed on a joint here. It looked like two hits off a joint, you know, whatever you think. Maybe who knows what it is. It scared the shit out of me.


I threw up. You threw up. I don't know what. I've only been to a Catholic church, but I don't know what. Do they have the smoke? Probably not now. Church, OK, it'll make you sick, but they pass the collection plate around. And the judging from the people next to you, when you only put a buck in there, that'll that's enough to make you sick.


I guess I'll make you a little nauseous. So she said the nausea would come and go and then it would send it stayed and wouldn't go away. The first came and went and then would stay and then she would vomit for hours this day. By the end of the day, she was puking for hours. Her mother ends up taking her to the emergency room where the doctors gave her some medicine. And she said, you know, antinausea medicine quelled the whole thing for a little bit, kept it down.


But then after a little bit of while the symptoms came back again, after the medicine wore off, they came back and they actually admitted, Carol, to the hospital. So this starts a period of the next four months of absolute just sick sickness here. Carol's in and out of the hospital, back and forth. Her symptoms are usually the same. Every time she ate, she threw up everything. Even Marie would buy baby jars of baby food they could give people and they have terrible ulcers.


My mother, when I was little, had bleeding ulcers and should be baby faced.


She like died for like five minutes. They had her. It was it was wild.


Angela, right. When I was really young, what caused was stress, stress.


My I was like five. She was throwing up blood. Yeah. It was like I called the I called the ambulance.


I see what you do to me trying to feed you Jesus. My address. And I didn't know I was like, I don't know, I'm five. I have no I don't really know what my address is. I remember I actually had to run outside and look at the number on the house and come back and tell them. And yeah, the ambulance came and they took her and they left me there one. So my dad came and got me off because, you know, I called him and he got me because the ambulance just left me there.


And then we went up there and yeah, it was bad. I found out later that she, like, died for a few minutes. Wasn't good. Yeah. A bad, bad thing. It was worse than I thought it was. Scary stuff. Bleeding ulcers, bleeding ulcers, very, very bad. Just wouldn't stop bleeding.


So she had the baby food for like a year and a half, basically have nothing but baby food.


I've heard of I've heard of people having ulcers, but they have to eat just bland shit like rice and chicken and no flavor know salt.


She was eaten stage one banana for a fucking while, not even the threes.


Yeah. So Maria would bring her jars of baby food at the hospital to. Help try to see if she could keep that down and she couldn't even keep that down, which if you can't keep baby food down, I mean, that's the most mild thing there is. So the doctors gave her so many tests, no reason they could not come up with a reason for the illness. So in August 1979, she's out of the hospital for a while.


She spent time with a friend of hers named Eve Cole. Carol and Eve were pals and, you know, they were hanging out together. And she one afternoon, Eve was there and Carol started throwing up again. So she was just in pain on the sofa. She was just, you know, holding her stomach. And her friend said that Marie said she had something to stop the nausea and it was a hypodermic needle filled with a milky fluid reason.


Not a nurse shouldn't be administering shots. I don't think so. Eve turned her head and Marie injected the she'd want to see it. Marie injected it into Carol's hip. And she said that Carol didn't feel nauseous after the injection and helped her. So but she said that she noticed that Carol told her that she noticed a tingling sensation and said she lost all the feeling in her fingers and toes, which I don't know which is worse.


I'd rather be conscious. I think so by August 22nd.


Second, the numbness in her hands and feet got worse and she gets readmitted into the hospital. At this point, she only Carrolls five feet tall. She's very small, like her mom and small built to her normal weight is about one hundred nine pounds. That's a regular weight. She comes into the hospital at eighty pounds. Good Lord. 80 pounds. Yeah.


And she because of her numbness, she couldn't walk and could barely couldn't even open a milk carton because she had numbness in her hands and feet. They did a ton of tests and could not find anything wrong. So they end up shipping her to Carroway Methodist Hospital in Birmingham on the ninth floor, which is their psychiatric ward, because they think that this is psychosomatic and that they also think that she's probably bulimic or anorexic because she's losing all this weight and not saying it.


So they think back then, rather than they would just be like, you're crazy and throw you in a fucking cheer up, bitch.


You cheer up, skinny bitch, and throw you in a thing.


So is ridiculous. So they did that.


They took her there. And for three weeks the psychiatrist poked and prodded and could not find out. She's fine. She's not there's nothing wrong with her. She's not mentally ill at all. They're like she's fine. She's a well-adjusted young lady. She's fine.


There's no reason that she should be. Tina needs a sandwich. Get her one. That's what I mean. So that then one night in mid-September, she was in bed and she said she was in bed at the hospital and she said that Carol was in bed and Marie reached into her purse and pulled out another needle. And she told her daughter one time there was another little girl who couldn't walk in. This made her better. So she injected her with something else in her hip.


And she said at that point, her numbness got even worse. Yeah.


So Carol called her friend Eve and told her about the other shot there. And by the way, I should say this because it's it doesn't make a difference, but it's how do you not mention this about a person? Eve has no arms. What? She's armless.


She has no I don't know how she lost her arms or whether she was born without arms. She has no arms.


OK, OK, so how do you bitch to her about not being able to feel your hands?


Exactly. How can you just keep it to tell that, that I can't open this milk carton. Yeah, me neither. Fucking whiny bitch. She can type with her toes like fast as shit really. She learned to like do everything with her feet because she has no arms. She's awesome. She's like she's a spirit of a fucking you know, she's an animal. She's awesome. So that's incredible. Yeah. That's, that's crazy. I don't know if I could that imagine doing that.


I would do the only thing I would learn to do is fire a shotgun into my mouth. If I know the only thing I'm not saying, then taking suicide lightly. If I had no arms I don't want to be here, I would lose my fucking mind. If someone has no arms right now and you're listening. Hats off. Hats off to you. Yeah, but, you know, I don't want you to do that. And I'm glad that you're persevering and you're much stronger and better than me.


Let's just say that I open my my gun. That's what I'd learn to do, is open my. Yeah. Got to be the only way because I would be very safe with my feet. I would be proud of foot the how to type the keypad code to open it is the only typing I would do. Yeah. So on September 18th, Marie had a meeting with the doctor, John L'Amore, who is Carol's psychiatrist, and he said maybe Carol's problem was heavy metal poisoning.


Possibly there's something she's doing that would cause that if she was she worked somewhere that would cause that sort of thing led arsenic or something like that, lead poisoning. Is she somewhere where there's a lot of lead paint or whatever? So he told Marie that he planned to run tests the next day to see if that's what it was. So five thirty that afternoon, Marie checks Carole out of the hospital. Oh, even though she's very sick and has a bunch of tests to take the next day hospital.


Yeah, drives her to a motel the next morning, they were arguing all night and everything like that, Carol, sick of going in and out of hospitals. Marie then takes her to the University of Alabama hospital in Birmingham. And when Maureen Carroll arrived at the hospital, doctors had been told about, you know, everything there as he examined Carol. As they're examining Carol, Dr. Brian Marshall Thompson notices on Carol, small white lines on her fingernails, small little white lines on her fingernails.


They're called Miss Lines. And yes, and they often indicate arsenic poisoning. Oh, yes. So the doctor, Carol, said at the time, the doctor looked at my fingernails, he saw white lines and said he'd seen it once before in medical school. He said either you did it to yourself or someone tried to do it. Do you in? And Carol said, quote, The first thing I thought was mother. Yeah. So on September 28th, she's released from the hospital.


She returns to Annison Aniston and goes on crutches to see her mother. She goes to see her in city jail because the day this happened, Carol is arrested on bad check charges for writing for bad checks, writing a bad check at a furniture store for furniture, furniture, shopping while her daughter's in the hospital.


Yeah, so that's so Carol crushes her way into the hospital, into the jail to see Marie. You're not buying a hospital bed for your daughter at the house and shit. Yeah, you're an asshole.


You're an asshole. All four of her bank accounts are overdrawn. She found out Anniston police were also investigating the circumstances of Carol's illness here. So serious, Carol, if the doctors ever found out what was wrong with her, she said, quote, arsenic mom, arsenic poisoning. And Marie said, quote, And they think I did it, don't they? Oh, boy, that's an odd thing. That's like because it's about the girl with the shirt.


That's the crime and sports reference. But if a police officer stops, a man goes to his house and says, are you so-and-so? And you go, is this about the girl with the shirt? You're fucked. Yeah, because that's not a good, good thing to respond. He says she then says Carol says, quote, Mother, I don't know. Sometimes people do things they don't remember doing. And Marie said, quote, If I did it, I don't remember.


Yeah, interesting. So it's at this point, like I said, she's still locked up here. And this is when Anniston Police Detective Gary Carol gets involved and he's, you know, suspicious of all of this shit here.


And this is when it turns out that while she's in jail here, free to Adcock, who is her sister in law, she ends up searching through the belongings that she that she has in their basement. Marie has belongings and Frida's base got searched through some of the belongings and also in another Anniston home owned by another relative that she has some stuff on a shelf in a small back room in Carrie Hilly's home, where Marie-Helene stored most of her possessions, she found a black cosmetics case inside.


It was it was Marie Helis. She said this was her stuff. Inside it was a bottle half filled with clear liquid. And it said, in the bottle is arsenic. Oh, boy. So that's not good. Three weeks later, her and her daughter searched boxes of Maries that were also in another place. And after a box they found in a box that was all the way in the back of something. They found a paper sack containing three jars of baby food, a spoon and a bottle of arsenic.


Oh, no. In the form of rat poison. Oh, no. So baby food, a spoon and rat poison.


That's just putting the cart in the baby food and taking it to the hospital and feeding her so her daughter and injecting her straight with it.


Carol testifies later on and she'll say now that her mother brought the baby food to eat at the hospital when she was there. So then this officer, Detective Carol, not the daughter Carol, delves into Marie's past a little bit, finds out that the year before Carol became ill, Maria's life insurance on her for twenty five thousand dollars, which is weird on your child right now.


You don't expect that. And that's a lot. It's a lot to have back then. So he turned up a confidential letter dated September 21st from Mike Kelly to Calhoon coroner Ralph Phillips saying, quote, It is my belief that she injected my dad with arsenic the same way she did with my sister. So that's not good. That's the son. That's our son. So bad. You're saying that's and her son. Yeah, both.


So anyway, meanwhile, like we said, they found the the Miss Frieda Adcock was looking through and found a medicine bottle. And with the arsenic and the baby food and a bottle of Cowley's rat and mouse mouse poison and obviously right on it, this bottle contains arsenic. So not great. Turned it all over. To the detective who by then had found a bottle with arsenic residues in Marie's purse when they arrested her, they look through a little further because when they arrest her, they don't know what the fuck it was.


But now when they were, like looking for it, they were like, there's fucking arsenic in this bottle. She had it on her and her personal time. Perfect.


Carol interrogates Marie in 1979 and says, quote, Marie, did you give her that poison? And he says she says, quote, No, Gary, I don't I don't know where you'd even get poison. I would give it to my own daughter. So she kept denying, denying. Then she admitted giving her daughter injections, but said they were Fenner, Phenergan, Fenton and Argin. I don't know when antinausea medications, whatever.


That's what she was saying. It was so October 3rd, nineteen seventy nine. They fucking it's exhumation day. They're going to exhume Frank and make sure he died of hepatitis because they didn't ever test him for poison. So they're going to yank Frank out. On top of that, some other bodies are going to yank out. So let's also pull up who is this Louise Frazier, who is I'm sorry, Carrie Helly and Marie's mother, Louise Louise Frazier there.


They died the year before, both of them, his mother and a relative of hers. And all three bodies had more than normal amounts of arsenic in them. What the fuck? But only Franks had enough for pathologists to conclusively say that it was poison that killed him. Tests show that Frank's body contain more than one hundred times the amount of arsenic normally found in a body that's a shitload of arsenic. So she killed Frank and probably her mother and her mother in law as well.


Wow. Yeah, she's and her daughter, she's just poisoning everybody. Oh, there's there's more to it. It's killing everybody at her birthday party. Oh, you have no idea, dude. Where do you want better? Watch out. You think you're joking. Yeah. Where do you hear. Oh boy. Yeah, it's not good. Also they made a an announcement, the state laboratory and by the way, nobody likes to to assume people know that's they don't they don't want to they don't want those bodies ever come back.


No one likes to fuck with the Dow like in the homicide book. David Simon book that. And we've talked about seven million times. They talk about this one case where they have to try to exhume a guy and the guy, the guy doing it, the detective is like a twenty five year guy. He's like a hardened motherfucker. And he after, like, three exhumations when they get the wrong person because, Jesus, it was like the proper grave and the guy was just burying him anywhere.


And then it turns out he did. He buried a bunch of people in a mass grave and didn't want to say anything. And so that's why they couldn't find it. But they kept pulling up the wrong guy. And it was like breaking this detective spirit. Like literally he was like, I can't do I can't like I'm having nightmares about, like, fucking ghosts and ghouls. I can't deal with this anymore. Crazy part about this as they were looking for a particular guy, a guy named Rayfield Hilliard, OK, they were looking for this one of this woman's woman's husband.


She poisoned and killed and shot, like all of her relatives that she had a life insurance on. They pulled out like four people out of the ground before they gave up looking for him, pulled out like four wrong people.


One of the people they pulled out happened to be the father of a guy they just arrested for murder two months earlier. The guy had just died and now they had to go to him and go, hey, yeah, we just pulled your dad out of the ground by accident. The guy was like, you did that shit on purpose, man, you trying to fuck with me? And they were like, no, no, really. Imagine being that guy.


You're like, you did whatever. Put him back on. Yeah, we'll put him back. So it's pretty messed up.


So anyway, they did do a press conference where the doctors did a press conference and they said, quote, We are not saying this. Frank Kelly's death was caused was a homicide. We're not even saying that arsenic was the cause of death. We're simply saying that a significant amount of arsenic was found in the body tissues and they said any death from the Hili family will be looked at. Now, the investigators have less trouble laying blame and, you know, putting, quote, labels on shit like homicide.


They they know what they're doing. They said they determined the victims were given small doses of arsenic over an extended period of time. So it didn't wasn't alarming. They just seemed to get sicker over time, which is normal. It eventually breaks down your nervous system. You lose control of your senses and you become unable to control your body movements, is what the doctor said about what happens there. The FBI agent that was investigating now also noted there was two arson fires at the Hili house, one when Frank was still alive.


And the second one was when Carole and her grandmother were in the house alone. So two fires that were set by somebody sort of like this has to be Carole doing some shit here one time. And some of the investigators that went to the house after she had called the cops all the time, they went to the house and afterwards they became sick. What? Yeah, the agents said it's possible that someone had given them some type of poison. Also, there was a family that lived next.


Talk to her for years. The children were sick all the time, but the doctors could never find out why, how she got in the shit into everybody's family eventually moved and the kids got well immediately when they moved.


The kids got better soon as they moved because she put in food, she's putting in drinks. She's putting a little little, tiny bit and drinks for everyone who wants Kool-Aid. You want to come a little bit and there, boom, there you go. Remember that one case we did next door? That's what they do. And this is the same shit believe she's doing that they got well, immediately, those kids. What is that? It's I don't know what her fucking problem is.


So they did a urine test to detect any arsenic that were also that were ordered for everybody who's visited the Hili residence police to investigate it. I mean, they just it was like everybody's probably she's who knows how many people she's been poisoning. October of 79, she's indicted for the attempted murder of her daughter. And then the murder indictment is going to come in May, November, in January, November 9th. Nineteen seventy nine. She gets bailed out.


By who? OK, Leonard Roberts.


No, I said no. Him one of her old bosses would give her cash to one company guy. Yep. Marie found couldn't find anyone to bail her out. For her, it's ten thousand dollars bond. Her family wouldn't do it. Finally, Leonard Robin Roberts from class Rebin agreed to pay for it.


So, yeah, he's one of the richest and most respected men and honest.


And they said so they were a little bit like, why is.


Well, because if she starts singing, I don't want her telling her all of her dirt.


That's the thing. It's really fucking strange.


So anyway, she's she's out here around one point she's taken by her lawyer to the roadway in and Homewood, Birmingham suburb bearlike. Yep. In there. That's hot stuff. Those are bad hotels. Those are terrible.


Helstone or so that always gross rodway in. Always gross. All right. I've stayed in two in my life and I regret it both times. Yeah. That's one of those where you're like you just have to keep telling yourself it was sixty dollars. What do I expect. Sixty dollars. I mean obviously it's going to be disgusting.


Both times I got him, it was because everything else was sold out and I just had to sit there in that bed and just tell myself, this is your fault.


You did. This is as bad as Austin is. Yes. That what was Austin? Oh, it was bad. Yes, Austin. It was the same south by southwest about the same.


We drove there straight through in fifteen hours and stayed in the worst hotel because it was all the money we had in the world and all that was available. And literally all there was nicer ones available. You're right. But we didn't have four hundred eighty nine dollars. We had like we can barely afford this, like we were counting our cash. Yeah. It was really touch and go. That's not good. And then the guy was because we were paying cash like, like an extra hundred dollars.


We'll get back to you in the morning now. I don't know. That's just not. Yes. What I have is eighty nine. Ninety five like your sign says. That's what I have.


I got that for you. I don't know what to tell you, but I need you to be a nice guy right now. Be cool. Be cool.


So now she checked into there and eight days later her lawyer, Wilford Lane, goes back to the hotel room and she's not there. Finds it empty with a note reading, quote, Lane, you let her straight to me. You will hear from me with no signature. OK, so basically she's lame, called the police and said that Marie had been kidnapped.


You let her write to me. OK, so two nights later, the home of her Aunt Margaret was robbed. Missing clothes were robbed. I was taken, luggage was taken and a collection of silver dollars that were in her car.


All the, you know, the same stuff that every Robert Lutes out of a house. It's pretty obvious who did it clearly. And it says, quote, Do not. And there's a note to, quote, Do not call the police. We will burn you out. If you do. We found what we want. Your car is in Gatson. We we your car is in Gadsden. That's what they said.


We found all the luggage, one of the Samsonite van. And then. Yeah. And then literally after that, it says that we won't bother you again now. OK, so they're happy about. So your car's over there. Yeah. The handwriting matched the same of the note at the roadway and by the way so yeah. She is charged with unlawful flight to avoid prosecution for murder in absentia. Obviously she's out there. Yeah. So the FBI starts a coast to coast manhunt.


Twenty eight other federal divisions, all this type of shit. They put an APB out, five foot, one hundred, ten pounds, green eyes, brown hair, scar on her knuckle. That's the straight vicious that's in. Nineteen states are searched thoroughly here for this woman. They say FBI search is conducted in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, Virginia, Maryland, New York, Connecticut, Nebraska, Missouri, Arkansas, Texas, New Mexico, Utah, Washington.


My God, that's they're going around any thorough possible clue they might have. January nineteen eighty.


She's indicted for the murder of her husband when she's not around. February nineteen eighty in Fort Lauderdale, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, member John Hohman from up in New Hampshire while he's down in Fort Lauderdale. Dale, at that point in time and this is in February of 1980, and he meets a small animated little brunette at a bar down there.


Yeah, a little firecracker. Yeah. Yep. And some scarred up knuckles. He named Robbie Hannon is her name. Yep. And she he owns a boat building company in Fort Lauderdale. And he just got out of a marriage. He just got a divorce. He's attracted to Robbie and they began hanging out. You know, she tells him that she comes from a tragic past. She says she's 35. She's from Texas. She told him that she lost both her children in a car accident.


Both of them. Yeah. He said that he had an alcoholic mother that died when he was young and he was shy and recently divorced.


Yeah, and they're in trauma in a bar. Yeah. That's what they were doing.


And she she's she's he said that she was soothing to him because she was so nice to him and she talked to him by March. They move in together so very quickly. Now, Robbie, the new lady in his life, gets a job as a secretary in an accounting firm in West Palm Beach. They don't stay long, though. In October, she and John leave Florida for New Hampshire, where John's brother Peter lives now and John rent a little house in Marlow, New Hampshire.


John finds work at Findings Inc, which makes small jewelry parts, and she finds work as well. She works for a while in different places. The Central Screw Company, which sounds like a lot of 80s porn. Yeah, this is a central screw company. And you show up looking for some screws. Yeah, film that shit. So the general manager here said he was impressed with her work. He hired her on a permanent basis as a customer sales rep.


I thought Ronnie was terrific. He said he never checked out her references because she named a Texas company that was no longer in business is her last employment. So the check on the employee to call in that she seems like a fine young lady. What the hell?


He said that he she, you know, name was Rob home in here. Yeah, Robbie Hohmann. And then she resigned in August of nineteen eighty one to attend to quote, personal matters in Texas. Three months later she came back though and asked for her job back and got rehired. She told everybody at work about her tragic life. She grew up in a wealthy Texas family. Yeah. Like our Dallas basically which had just come out. Yeah.


So she complained, complained of severe headaches all the time, too. All the time. She said she's had an inheritance that she'd eventually get when relatives died. So that's what she was waiting on. And she's got these headaches all the time. And she said she's been to so many doctors to try to find out what it is and no one knows what it is. Just headaches. Yeah, maybe migraines. Some of her coworkers thought she was pushy and, you know, kind of a pain in the ass, but most of them really liked her and thought they felt bad for her.


And, you know, and the men also liked her a lot. All the men thought she was very nice and she was real nice to the guy. She got along better with the men than the women, even though the women liked her, too. She would get more involved stories. As she went on, she told people she was dying of a rare blood disease that caused her body to make too many blood red blood cells thing. I am sure it is.


But I mean, she didn't have it.


She and John got married here and she would leave him alone from time to time, telling people she was seeking treatment for various out of town specialists.


OK, so I asked all those red cells out. Yeah, she'd have to go for me and go to the Mayo Clinic in Minneapolis. I'm going here. Ron Ojea, who's the president vice president of sales and marketing at the Central Fastener Company, said, quote, She was an excellent worker. Being wealthy was very, very important thing for her. She craved status. She was always one of the first ones to the bank on payday. She always gave the impression of wealth.


She's a classy, very classy.


So September eighty two, she resigned again to seek treatment in Europe. Oh, telling coworkers that this blood disease, you know, was just overcoming her. She also began to talk about her twin sister. Terri said she got a twin sister, Terri Martin, and she's she lives in Texas. She talks to her all the time. She said that she would occasionally shut her door to her office at work, saying she was going to call her sister, Terri, who was having marriage problems and she needed some advice.


And only your sister can give you your twin sister is the person you're going to turn to for that. And everyone understood that. Nobody cared. She she said that she was going to Texas to get some kind of treatment and Terri was going to take care of her while she was down there as well, make sure she was OK. She said she was making one last attempt at this treatment and she said that it was making her more and more ill.


And this is my last shot. And if I don't, this doesn't work. I'm just going to croak, just cashing out. She said she would her husband was going to stay in. Hampshire while she went down there, and she's gone for six weeks, six weeks, OK, so, yeah, she's complaining about her health, everything like that. Now, she would call him occasionally from Texas and both she and Terry would talk to him, the twin sister and everything.


Then on November 9th of this year, Terry calls and says calls John and says, I have bad news. Robbie died on Robbie's dead. Yeah, it's blood disease over Tucker, and she's dead and her body has been donated to science.


OK, what you is exhibit. And that's what she wanted because she wants them to be able to find out what's wrong with her. You know, it's like the NFL players shoot themselves in the chest and they commit suicide because they want to fuck their brains up more.


So, yeah, she wants to be the body playing badminton. Yup. So that's it. So they're donated to science. And a few days later, a blonde woman comes to visit him. John Hohmann in New Hampshire. And it's Terry. Okay. She's blonde and she says I'm Robbie's twin sister. Terri, it's nice to meet you. Yeah, they put up Robbie's obituary in the paper on November 13th. Terry moves in with John, take care of him and help him, you know, recover from this.


She gets a job at a book bindery, right? Yeah. Officials at at the Cheshire Employment Agency in Keene, New Hampshire, said they found her a temp job as an executive secretary at the Book Press, a publishing firm in November. Eighty two, in keen and keen to pressure President Robert Marsh, said her boss that was her boss at Book Press, was so impressed with her skills that he offered her a permanent job on December 6th, about two weeks after she started, Terry Martin's killing at her secretarial skills were excellent.


They told her she had he said, quote, She's very beautiful. The Southern drawl type person. Very congenial, very impressive.


There you go. Fascinating. Yeah. Said, you know, that's how it was like this is this is great. Now, John would come to the plant on occasion, and after the death of his wife, he'd go back to the screw factory there just to talk to people. And he would bring Terry, the twin sister, around to explain to the friends how she died because they all wanted to know what happened. And, you know, the last days of of poor of poor Robbie.


Yeah, they said the resemblance was, you know, their twin sisters are like that. That's just a blonde and brown version. I believe they have the exact same DNA.


That's why. Yeah. Crazy, right? They said everybody was standing around. This is the boss quote. Everybody was standing around crying. And she said, Robbie told me so much about all of you. Can I see the desk where she worked at and and sit in her chair like you?


Tom, she told me you like pretzels. Yeah. Here's some. I brought them for you. I know so much about all of it, so. All right.


Yeah. One day she went by herself to the Texas Screw Company to see her sister's friends. And the boss, Ron Osia, started becoming a bit suspicious. Yeah. So he said, quote, I called Texas to check out the Sacred Heart Church in Tyler where the services were held. There was no record of a Sacred Heart church in Tyler and no record of anybody by the name of Robbie home and dying. Her body was supposed to be given to the Medical Research Research Institute in Dallas, but there was no medical research institute in Dallas, the obituary said.


Robbie was born in Buffalo, New York. But the bureau, a Bureau of Vital Statistics, said they had no record of her birth or anything. Rhonda Dodds and Ron turned in a fucking Billy Jensen over here and started got a shovel out and started going to town on them. Ron is in the wrong line of work. Yeah, he should at least have a podcast, if not more. That's at minimum. Wow.


So he called the police and they brought the FBI in and. Yeah, that's that's how it was.


That's what happens when you already know where the bathroom is in a building you've never been in.


Yeah. So they get to him and they go, hey, we have your they arrest her basically they go there and when they said, hey, we don't, the FBI showed up and we're like, yeah, we don't think you are who you say you are. And she was like, I'm a dreamer, really. I'm from Alabama and I'm wanted she just spelled it immediately that they didn't know that much. They just knew she wasn't who she said she was.


She could have made something else up.


But we're on to you. But we don't know what we're on to. Well, I'll tell you.


So after she's arrested, she called her son, who is she hasn't talked to in years. Right. And she had disappeared for three years. She said hello. He said hello. First thing she said is, quote, Is Carroll still a homosexual? Nice talking to you, Mom. Yeah. Jesus Christ.


So arsenic work on that, right? The Detective Hubbard even said that, yeah. He paid so much such close attention that Robby Hannon smoked one brand of cigarettes and read books all the time, or as Terry Martin smoked a different brand of cigarettes and never read. She watch TV all the time. She made a completely different fucking human being. Yeah, they said it's crazy, they said that it was just gossip around the town of that. She looks just fucking like her, right?


He's walking around with her twin sister now. What is happening? It was just so weird. January 1983. Yeah, they told John Hohmann and he said, quote, There must be some mistake. I don't understand what you're talking about. This is crazy. But now they said, yeah, that's not Rahbi home and that's not Terry Martin. That's actually a completely different fucking person, not your wife or her sister. And you're lucky to be alive.


It's a woman named. How you feeling? And nauseous at all. So, yeah, this is crazy. The FBI agent, David Steele, went to a factory near Marlow to question her. And as she walked to the parking lot, he stopped her and he just said, we know you're not who you say you are. Who are you?


And she said, a major Marie-Helene from Anniston, Alabama, which was pretty quick, but she was, you know, top ten FBI most wanted list. Real. Absolutely. Yeah, she was up there. That is incredible.


Yeah. They wanted her bad. She was what she could be killing. How much? Oh my God. He's hitting everybody. So I went home. They told John Hohmann and he said, quote, It blew my mind. No shit. Yeah. Did it. He said he was humiliated as well. I'm sure news came out that he's the dumbest man alive. OK, you know your wife. Yeah. You know, twins. I've known lots of identical twins, not lots, but a few sets.


They have little differences, some quirks. And that's with clothes on.


Right. So nude, you know what I'm saying? Life does things to different people is different. There's no way that doesn't identical. That's what I'm saying. Twin. You would know right at that point what's going on there. So, yeah, he said he felt like an idiot, basically because she lost five pounds and dyed her hair blonde and came up there and now she's a different person.


He was like, I thought that he I think or he was in on it. We we don't know. He said, quote, I felt they were two separate people. Their actions were different.


There was nothing to tie the two together except that they're fucking identical in every way, including scars and identifying marks, you idiot. Yeah. So the twin there of Jesus Christ, that's fucking insane. Apparently, what she had done was she left in September. Eighty two, Marie as Robbie as the sick one stayed in Texas for a few days. On September twenty third she went to Pompano Beach, Florida. That day she had her hair bleached, then went to an employment agency seeking work under the name Terri Martin.


By the end of the day, she had a secretary job at solar testing services, worked there for six weeks, told her her boss, Jack Mackenzie, about her twin sister, Robbie, who's gravely ill, who doesn't exist.


Yeah, and she said her sister had recently suffered a stroke and then developed cancer, which it's one of those cancer strokes where you have a you have a stroke and it kicks cancer right in the early kickstarts. It starts it up. That's what happens. And Terri felt responsible for her. And then she said that she left in mid-November, told the boss that her sister had died. And, you know, he had she had to take care of stuff and she'd be in New Hampshire and she's going to stay there.


And thank you for your kindness. Yeah, that's what she went back and went. Hi, I'm Sister Terri. That's when it's November 10th is when she called John to break the news that Robbie was dead and she's coming back.


So, yeah, all those calls, they go into that two of the officers, by the way, this is the more poisoned thing I want to talk about. At least two of the officers from those investigations have complained of severe stomach cramps and nausea after drinking coffee that she gave. OK, so it's very specific to that. I also linked to the chronic unexplained illness of various neighborhood children. One playmate, eleven year old Sonya Gibson, died of unknown causes in nineteen seventy five.


But the autopsy revealed elevated but not like the other people more than she should have, but not enough to call it a murder when they exhumed her in nineteen eighty three. But probably. But they were still they were pulling little girls out of the ground in nineteen eighty three still from this fucking monster. That's the problem. It's they've interrupted. She it's crazy. Yeah. Her son Mike also had symptoms that doctors attributed to the stomach flu that stopped abruptly when he moved away to attend seminary school.


She's poisoning her fucking son, amosite, her whole family, just everybody a little bit at a time. If it's a control thing, I don't know what that is.


So June nineteen eighty three is her trial. Carol, obviously is going to testify quite a bit. She's on the witness stand for hours. She said her mother gave her three injections. Carole testified, saying that they would either stop her nausea or help her walk again. That's what she would tell her mother would tell her with the last two shots. She said that she was that's when she was at the hospital. She told her daughter to promise not to tell anyone about the shots because they were at the hospital, I guess, after the injections, she said she said she felt tingling in her legs and would lose sensation in her hands, feet and ankles and all that sort of shit.


So they say that is. Like the advanced stages of arsenic poisoning, when you start to lose muscle control halfway through her testimony, this is insane. Defense attorneys reposition their table so that it face the jury instead of the judge's bench.


Why would you do that? Not really weird. After the rearrangement, Marie's facial expressions, as her daughter testified, became visible to the jury. They wanted or wanted the jury to see her facial expressions as she this happened. So the defense attorney, Wilford Lane, asked her questions, the daughter, Carol, about drug use and homosexual liaisons, quote, unquote. OK, yeah. So are you Gagen on drugs or what is that? What's wrong with it?


What happens? You guys do your scissoring and then you get all arsenic mix when you rub two of them together creates poison. Didn't you read the Bible, for Christ's sake? Two vaginas, equal poison, right? That's how it is. It's like when you put salt on a slug, it just don't go together.


That Y chromosome, when you put your tongue in it, it creates the arsenic. If you go and if you put the marijuana in at that point, it just expands it. Then our whole body goes shut down. Marijuana and pussy juice is what causes death in young people.


That's the only thing that actually acts. That's a male I don't x axis of one, never mind Y chromosome damage. Yeah. So holy shit. OK, this is fucking ridiculous to ask her that. Carol acknowledged that at one point on one occasion she smoked marijuana and at one point she discussed with her friends the possibility that the drug might be causing her illness.


If you're smoking shit, dirt, weed, and in seventies Alabama, it's not causing anything, but usually leads not laced with our snow and maybe a slight headache and slight munchies.


But you'd barely get high off of that shit. Are you kidding me? I'm going to make your hands numb. He asked her if she attended pot parties. Oh, boy, do you attend pot parties. Never called it. They're just people in the fifties. This is like nineteen eighty three, but it's Alabama, so it's roughly the fifteenth. So yeah.


I told the jury in response to a question from Lane that she stopped living with a roommate who was a heavy drug user and was known to be a homosexual.


So she said she left that arrangement. She didn't like that. Carol acknowledged suicide attempts at one point. How could you not your mother was trying to poison you for years, for fuck's sake, involving a mild overdose of five Tylenol.


That is going to do it. That's a cry.


I mean, if you if you eat a whole bottle of Tylenol, you won't die now. But in, like, two days, you'll drop dead.


That's how it works. Five, five tabs of Tylenol too much. And it my that's a cry for help. Yeah. That's I took a little too much. Maybe we'll pump your stomach. That's what you take when you think you're having a heart attack. Yeah.


It's also a switch you take if you're, you know, if you're next all fucked up from a bunch of car accidents and you need to do a record, a podcast to take like six Advil, liquid gels and then. Yeah, Tylenols, you can't suicide itself. You can't take that many Tylenol, though, because they will eat your body up. Yeah. That Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Five is probably she'll give you a bleeding ulcer still.


Yeah she. Yeah absolutely. She said the attempt was made shortly after she was admitted to the mental hospital because she knew she wasn't fucking shouldn't, didn't belong there. She, she's being poisoned and they're telling her that she's crazy. Imagine that. She's like I'm fine, I want to eat and I throw up. My mom's giving me what is happening. Holy shit.


That has to be frustrating with a white boost. Yeah. How do you I don't know. I get in the ass like I'm Hulk Hogan happening. I get it. I mean, I understand trusting your mom, but boy oh boy. If my mom came to me it was like, I don't give you the shot. Are you out of your fucking mind? Yeah, this is fucking nuts.


So then comes Priscilla Wang. They call her in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, quote, a streetwise blonde who was awaiting trial on charges of forgery and theft. Yeah. Yeah. So she's she's cool. She came in the leather jacket, smoking created by the description. She's got street smarts because she's like, OK, so they first she said that she had been Marie's cellmate in the county jail for three and a half months. And Marie claimed when they first met that she had no idea why she was being charged with murdering her husband and trying to poison her daughter.


A few weeks later, though, Marie changed her story, her sister and as she said, and then her sister in law did the poisoning, not her sister in law, she said. But then something happened that shocked her, Priscilla, that as the streetwise, blonde, tough quote, she was having another one of those headaches. All of a sudden she changed into a different person. She became more violent and cursed a lot. Then she went into talking about the arsenic poisoning and how she had how she done it all and that she killed all of them.


She was talking about how she killed her mother in law and her. Husband and attempted to poison her daughter. She said she took arsenic poisoning and put a little bit of it in their food a little at a time. Priscilla testified that Marie said that she, quote, did it because her daughter was a lesbian and had been from the age of 13 or 14 and that her husband and her husband's family all sided with Carol. You know, they were nice people who were like, we love you no matter what you do.


And she was like, I got to poison all these people. How dare they? That's why she did it. That's what she said. She said she was ashamed of her daughter and hated her for being that way.


That's what she told Priscilla. Oh, my God. That's probably not the best thing to say in jail, by the way, because in jail, ladies tend to like ladies.


Well, by the way, we're not a good crowd to bring that up in, is what I'm getting at. It's not so that they like him. It's just that they're there. And it's a lesson I've been watching. Orange is the new black. They do it a lot.


It's it's way more. Well, they're also a different lens in women's prison or way different.


Yeah. Also, women are a little more that. Well, yeah. Well, the thing is, women, even criminal women are human and then men aren't. No. Especially when they get in that environment where there's no women around, they that's when they become fucking like animals against, you know, whatever. So anyway, at the closing arguments, after the closing arguments, the judge recessed the trial and Marie stood and stared across the courtroom at Carol and mouthed, I love you at her, fuck you.


So then she smiled and she motioned for Carol to come over and talk to her, huh? Yeah. Fuck you talking about Carol said, quote, No, mom, I can't and wouldn't do it. I can't do that. The jury deliberated for three hours before reaching her. The verdict is not very long. Three hours. I mean, how much time do you need? They find her guilty on both charges.


And, yeah, sentencing is the judge. I mean, imagine looking at this woman. Everything's you, right, Murray, Robbie, Terry, whatever the fuck your name is, ma'am. Yeah.


May fuck off. Yeah. Life in prison plus 20. OK, so that's not life without that's life plus 20.


So that's going to be, you know, whatever the Alabama life is. Seventy five, forty plus twenty. So twenty five year parole. Maybe if you're looking at it in terms of good behavior and shit like that. Well it's a little bit different than that. OK, so in jail John sticks with our John home. Why not eat on. Not even the person he's John. Yeah, John. Come on, John. They do a newspaper, an interview with him.


I think it's the Anniston Star where he is eating a bowl of grits at the Waffle House in Anniston. And they call him a thin, balding man. They said he stayed in Madison after the trial. He was living in a hotel and working as a tool and die maker at the foundry because she's in jail there and he wants to stay close to her.


She's working at the business that is that her husband. What a difference. A different business. It's not the same. It's not the foundry. I found a different way.


They said that. Jesus Christ. He said, quote, When this is all over, maybe me and Marie will write a book. I'll tell the true story. Oh, John, he says he said, well, you've known her. People told him, well, you've known her is three different people. What do you call her? And he said, I've called her Robbie. I've called her Terry. And then I have to then I had to start calling her Marie, you know, because that's her fucking name, Jesus Christ.


He went on to say that he didn't believe Marie poisoned anybody. He said that she was the innocent victim of family hatred at the top rungs of Anniston Society, on the top rungs of Anniston Society. Before the trial, he told newspaper reporters that his wife left him and returned as her twin because he wants she wanted to protect him from too much grief. If she had to run again, that's why she didn't want to run away. She was protecting him.


That's what she told him. So every Sunday at five thirty in the morning, he gets up and drives for almost two hours to Wetumpka to see Marie during the prison's weekly visiting hours sucker on his forehead with a staffer.


Sure, he felt dumb and duped and like the dumbest man on earth. And then he continues it. John, he said, quote, I'll tell you why she did it. Yeah, he said that's what he said. Quote, I'll tell you why she did it for a four letter word. People don't use that much anymore. Love everything she did, she did for love except for poison her children and her husband. Nineteen eighty five is her appeal with the Alabama Supreme Court, and she is looking for a new trial.


She's a lot of this is on evidence used in her conviction was illegally seized, is what she says, because she said she was arrested with the purse and then they used the purse later. But that purse was a search from the original arrest for from the right arrest. It's a search from her check things so that shouldn't have been held in the buck and blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, there's poison in your purse, right? Also, she said that none of this stuff that that Adcock woman found, Frieda Adcock, found all the baby food and a spoon and all that shit.


None of that should count either, because that's illegal search and seizure. But it's not because the. Lisa didn't fucking do it. This lady went into a house that she had access to legally and searched through some shit that was sitting there and then turned it over to the police, which is if the police said, hey, we're not allowed to do it. But if you want to poke around, that's not technically legal. But she did it.


No one said that. Anyone told her to. So that's legal, whether she likes it or fucking not. At that point, the defense claims, quote, free Adcock had no right to seize the evidence submitted into the case. Further claims of police testing of the bottle constituted a warrantless search, which now it was just a private citizen handing over shit to the police. That was evidence, that's all. So both searches cited by the defense turned up small vials of arsenic, obviously, and also some private letters and all sorts of shit like that.


They find her keep fucking off. That's not going to work. We got you, like, dead to rights like five times. So somehow.


I don't know how by nineteen eighty six, they start giving her work furloughs or not work furloughs, weekend furloughs like just get out of free good behavior, earns her several one day passes from the prison where she can just go out and leave and come back. OK? OK, she always arrives back on time. A murderer always comes a fucking murderer poisons everybody. Top ten, America's Most Wanted.


Probably they think she tried to poison police officers who were investigating imaginary crimes that are in two years were letting her out. Yeah, good behavior. She always arrived back on time until February 19th, 1987. Yeah. Time and back. They give her a three day furlough. And she was declared a fugitive on Sunday when she failed to show up for her furlough back again. Yes, she she was there. Her husband was her sponsor, their John home.


And I guess they got officially married to the real person. They arrived back at his apartment that evening that she got out. And he she Marie called the Calhoun County sheriff to tell him she was in town, which she has to do, required by her court and prison rules. That was the only contact she made with local authorities. The following day. She left his apartment and told her told John that she would meet him at the Waffle House.


And a little while she never came when she was supposed to so that her husband contacted the sheriff to say, hey, I'm not involved in this. The sheriff called prison officials to warn them that she had disappeared. She was officially declared a fugitive that afternoon and a statewide search was started. She left a note saying she was going to Canada. That's what she said. So the note investigators said, I mean, you know what the fuck? They said that she could be anywhere.


They said she could be living a life. She changes her personality to fit her surroundings. The FBI said, quote, She can be kind, laughing, considerate, and then brutal and hateful. We believe she's living in a world with make believe friends and enemies when she reads this. If it's the real Audrey Marie Haley, she will probably change her personality when she realizes that she is accused of doing something. It's not likely. Marie Haley and an agent said he said an agent in another state.


Well, but but the real Marie Haley reads this as she will likely change her personality and relocate or get careless and hopefully we'll find her. They said that, you know, they're hoping she contacts friends and relatives or something like that and look for a small woman. But she's going to be having a different personality, probably. So just keeps going on. They said that she'll probably be working in a respectable job. She'll be doing secretarial work. They said, quote, She's a perfectionist and wouldn't take a job that low rates her.


She'll be living in a living a good life. She will be in a beauty shop at least twice a week. She's always dressed nice in her appearance. Was pleasant always. Yeah, that's what they say. February twenty six, nineteen eighty seven. This is in the Blue Mountain area here, less than a mile from where she was raised. She, a woman named Sue Craft spots somebody out on their porch. It's a rural porch out there.


It's freezing cold out February like forty degrees and rainy, terrible outside. And this person, Sue Craft, sees what she calls a grim, ghastly figure on the porch. She says Sue says family even.


Yeah, I quote, I really didn't like looking at her. She was scary. There were spots of mud on her face. Her bangs were stuck to her forehead. She had long fingernails like she had never like she had never wrung out a mop. She had thin hands. And this and and the little finger on her right hand wouldn't straighten out. It was Doublemint. She was so dirty. She talk like her tongue was thick. She apparently had been crawling around the woods.


This is Marie. Yeah. She'd been crawling around the woods for the last four days. It's been pouring rain for the last four days. And at night it's been in the low 30s. Oh, she's been soaking wet. So she shows up on a stranger's porch. Yeah, she's been crawling around the woods by her home. She left my you know, where else to go. The people here on her porch covered her with a painter's drop cloth, but left her outside in the wind and rain while they called the police.


Stay out here. Yeah, what the fuck, man? She's a tiny lady. She's not going to run amok. You can at least bring her inside with.


I don't know. I don't want near in the yard. I mean, I mind my own business. I see her out there. I'm like, I don't know, unless they knock. I'm not saying silly.


Maybe they said that her hands were pinkish purple. I would feel terrible.


Man She had mud on her face and her clothes were soaked. They said that this is the police said that she told them that her car had quit running a few miles away but couldn't tell them her name. That's what she said. She said, I walked and crawled some of the rest of the way. And then they the people at the house said, well, the police are on the way. And the last thing she said was, OK.


And then the ambulance came. Rescue workers took her. She's conscious when the ambulance arrives, but suffers a convulsion in the ambulance and loses consciousness. The spokeswoman for the. Regional Medical Center in Anniston says she suffers a heart, a cardiac arrest upon arrival at the hospital, and they try to raise her body temperatures but are unsuccessful and she dies while she dies right there. Died of exposure to the hypothermia. Unbelievable. She's found dead. Yet cause of death is, I think, hypothermia.


And that's that. They said they worked on her for hours. That was how it was. One of the people who worked at the hospital said, quote, A nurse said, It's sad to me that she died knowing what her life was. I don't guess she was no Christian. And you know, where people that people go that don't.


OK, so she's saying she's going to hell. Yes. The district attorney has a more interesting thing, Bob Field. He said it seems to be an anticlimactic way for someone who was the great Escape artist to die. This goes against everything she's done in the past, the biggest escape artist in this area in 10 years. And what does she do? She ends up crawling around in the woods. Right. Yeah. They said that she just probably didn't plan her escape as well this time.


It's kind of a spur of the moment. Maybe the police, Gary Carroll guy said, quote, This wasn't this was ill planned or not planned at all. He said normally she's got an elaborate plan and can pull off a smooth escape. This time it was spur of the moment. And she got a little desperate. I think so, yeah. They at three months after that, they're doing a full investigation on the furlough system of how the fuck did we let this woman out of the jail ever for five minutes.


Right. For this to happen anyway. Like, what the hell are we doing here?


Yeah, they said that people saw her while she was in Anniston. When they did things, she was walking around, but nobody knew what was going on and nobody really paid attention.


February 22nd of the next year, nineteen eighty eight a year later, they talk about, you know, did we have we found out where she went or what she did during this time? Did she try to get away? And county sheriff here, Roy Sneyd, said, quote, We don't know anything more than we knew at the time. Zero from the time she walked away from the motel. We still have no concrete evidence of her whereabouts till she showed up on that porch.


That was it. Yeah. There's been a bunch of fucking books, by the way, published on this, but I didn't read any of them, by the way, because a lot of them were like partially fictionalized. But all the books, all the they're all called like husband, killer, black widow, all those books are like very over.


Yeah, they're just overdramatise the story doesn't need that. They just put they put their own shit in it always. And I don't like that, especially when I can go back and look through a million newspaper articles and court documents and get exactly what happened. I don't really need any of the other shit, so I don't need somebody some asshole's opinion. So, yeah, this is that's how it works. Nineteen ninety four in July. Yeah. So some time has gone by.


She's been dead for six years, seven years. Carol puts an ad in the paper selling Marie's prison artwork.


What. Yeah that Carol. That Carol the daughter. Yeah. That she tried to kill.


She said from 83 to 87 she rediscovered her hobby of painting her daughter. Sell is selling one of them. She said, quote, I can't afford to get it framed. It's a fifty six by thirty six inch painting of a forseen. That's a lot of fucking huge. Wow. She said it's quote, it's just hanging around. She put a classified ad in the Anniston Star as a star seeking a buyer for her mother's work. She said, you know, her mother's pretty notorious and whatever as people it's signed at the bottom by her and all that.


She said, quote, When she was in prison, she didn't have anything to do for somebody who never really painted before. She was fairly good. And she said that she was interested in drawing long before she went to prison. She remembers how her mother would sketch while they were sitting in church. Yeah, paying attention. She would draw a picture and challenge her daughter to copy it. When she went to prison, Art became her main entertainment.


She did oil painting and had dozens of pencil pencil drawings, watercolors and pictures done by her mother as well. All of them are signed Mary home, and she's married to John there. She even did one, especially for the daughter. She tried to kill their Carol and signed it, quote, with love from mom. Oh, boy. Don't touch it, though. It might be poisonous. It'll leak through your fingers some sort of like. Yeah.


CIA fucking murder technique. Yeah. She said the mother. She said the time when she her mother was painting represented some of the best years of their relationship. They never talked about her mother's crimes, though. She said, well, you know, while she was in jail there, she said she had to come to terms with what her mother had done and is still scared for her. She said that love is one of the reasons she's selling the art, that she's selling this picture.


She said, quote, She did them and she's still my mom. She's not around to do them anymore. That's that. It's three bucks like big deer, male deer, three bucks bolting from a forest toward a lake on a big giant canvas. They're surrounded by trees and battled, I don't know, never. They didn't follow. So the Anniston Star had a lot of pieces here and there, kind of felons and the Atlanta Journal Constitution article by Humoral was a great, very great detailed article encompassed all the court docs and awesome everything else interviews.


They really did a thorough job on that. So good job by them. And that everybody is why we had to go back to Anniston, Alabama again, because. Could you find a crazier fucking story than that? I dare you. I had to go back. So did we. That's what I'm saying. We all have to go back to. And eventually, if you like that show, damn it, tell us about it, please.


I kind of want one of those artwork's. That's the only person that did while that I kind of want it. Yeah, right. Because it's just weird. Ridiculous. Tell us about it. Get on Apple podcast five stars. That purple icon helps us out a lot. We have no fucking idea why, but it does help us out. So please do that. Go to shut up and give me murder dotcom right now for everything crime and sports and small town murder related, everything is there.


Listen to crime and sports if you haven't. This week Charles Barkley was our subject. So you've heard of him and man that he do some crazy shit here about him throwing someone five foot two through a window, a plate glass window. It's pretty entertaining, if nothing else. So check all of that out. Also, listen to P.S. I hate this movie over the weekend. On top of all of that, you definitely want to become a Patriot supporter.


You want to be a patron. And the reason for that, by the way, Patriot dotcom slash crime and sports. You want to get all the wonderful bonus episodes this week. And by the way, you get all of the bonus episodes, crime and sports, small time murder, everything. So this week, a crime in sports, small town murder is going to be heavy. Back story on the high five killer Randall Woodfield, who is a possible serial killer who also played briefly for the Green Bay Packers.


And we covered back on that. Drafted by him, drafted by him. We have all sorts of background information. That's crime in sports and on small town murders. Bonus, we are going to do Thanksgiving murders. We're going to do when the holiday just was too much for people and they lost their goddamn shit. You know, when you get upset. So did these people live vicariously through these people who slaughter their whole family or something? Know, don't you do it?


Yeah. Live just be like that's what it would be like. OK, well, the prison part's bad. Yeah. So there you go. Do all of that, check it out and you can find everything like that and get a shout out at the end of the show where Jimmy will butcher your name. All of that at Patreon dotcom slash crime and sports. And if you just want to have good karma and have your name mispronounced at the end of the show as one of our beloved producers, you can do that very easily over at PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at Gmail dot com that said, damn it, it's crazy.


It's Thanksgiving. It's we are in the States. You know, it's Thanksgiving. It's a holiday. So tell me who I am thankful for. Mean it's very clear. I'm thankful for these people. Tell me who they are.


This week's executive producers are Adam Sorba, Jordan Bennett, Amanda MacPherson, Matthew Reed, Stacey Stephenson, Chris Nelson, Emily Roberts, Melissa Turner. Happy birthday. Also Preston Letterman, Larry. Oh, it's Terry from Portland, remember?


Oh, I know, Terry. We have I know territory is a good do miss you, too, Terry. Vanessa Castillo, Christina Haden, Rio would no last name. Zach Buffalo, Tim Tim Roots and Jesus John Betsen Betcher. Nina Betcher. Nina.


Hey, he's going to screw that up. Other producers this week are Thomas Smith, Lil Wayne al-Sheik. Ginnette what. Janet Damit Zelasko. John Woodward, Teresa Harris, O'Reagan Shankly. Amanda Night. Jay Berk's Karen Parker. Susan Lacky Welman. Jamie would no last name Paten Meadow's Brian Chilian. Ali ZATZ I think. And Happy Birthday Brett Chilian. That's his brother Brian Kinney. Also Darren Pawlick. Holly Harward.


Oh that's a tough one. I'll never get through that one. Easy, Catherine Calado Jason Toby, Michelle Malone, Nickerson, Amy Clark, Jennifer Krumpet, Crumbley, whatever. James Marter, Jessie Taman, Colin Mulligan shit. Jamie Harder Soos No, that's Sarah Crawford. Wendy Madden. Mulligan Hoglund. Ferd. How Halki. I don't know. Ropp Rabbi. That's a Rabbi. Shmuel and Schmoll. All of which I don't know why he makes me say that every week.


Courtney Jacoway. I think Lauren McCan Madison would no last name. Jen Weland. Mark Westmar. He donated both ways. Thank you. Mark Lauren, Lauren Katan, Villa Villa Cutin and never I'll never get it vill the ILEC.


I don't know how to pronounce that it's pronounced whatever Mandy Hagon pronounced pronounce Corri Kitzmiller Mattey West.


Jessica Rukia. Barbara Haoles Jacqueline Woods Cardiac would no last name. Josephine Kramer. Jen Murphy Wyvern Workshop. Chelsea Morgan's friend Amanda. It's her birthday. Happy birthday. She got her into the show so she gets the show. Matt Inman, Clark Amauri. Josa, what is this. Sonya Lee. Sonya Lee Pointer I. Think Valerie Walsh, Molina, Molina, Coon shit, Morgan Eberly, what is this Donald Ward that I write terribly and I write simple names?


Yeah, but I put the two words together, so it looks like Donald Ward.


Donald Ward will go that way. Don. Mike, Mike and Kimberly Billingsley. Michelle Beedi.


Melissa Milne. Dan Daley. Kathy Jackson. Blair. Hollywood Hopwood. Mom, I'm a terrible Janice Hill. Dora Raddest WB. Jamelle Thomas. Sergio Rutten. Rutt Mayer. Jill Wajda, Miami Dog Whisperer. He's from Hayami so he speaks to them in Miami.


Whatever. Low tone, right? Yeah, very nicely. Joe Slacker Gentry Luke Alison Martin Seismo Marilyn Mitchell. Deborah Kim Bailey, Elizabeth Holland. Aaron Marsalis Posey. That's the last name. QET Chris, Li'l James and Jimmy Fanfiction. Who. I don't. Isn't that like dirty. I don't know what that means. I hope it's not dirty. I hope it's not just. Yeah. It's just maybe more like saving the world. Jessica Curtis, Montgomery Mayo Jr.


. Amber Coburn, cranky with no last name. Rosalba Ovalle, Avalos Grayson or Mike Shanahan. Probably not. I'm sure Julia Haley, Azera, Sooraj, Keagan, Cayston, Thelma Narcotic Mouth would no last name. Brian Butcher. Brendan Abels, Jude Kendall. Natasha would no last name Michael Abbott. Daniel with no last name. Sherry Dresher. Ashley Veoh. Matthew. Nope, that's Marsha. What does that do me do. Boy I'm a I have terrible writing man.


Ashley Rain. Dear Jeevana. Dear Giovana. Catherine Claw's. I think that Santurce wife Eric Lewis. Kevin what what did I do. Kiva's Kiva's rossner Rozner Mark Gutierrez, Alan VO, Mary Prest, Mary Jane Preston Kay WOPR or Quapaw.


I don't know if that's a klaper. Yeah.


Tessy Hughes Tasser Hughes, Candice Bu, Biocon Buzan, Richard McCutchen. Michael Berg, Holst Burr Holst Fok. Kimberly Smith, Shelby Montana. What is this. Kelley Moore. Candice Johnson. Barb Espers. Esposito. Rachel Petkovski. Deborah Townsend. Brian Wood. No last name. Michelle Gay. Eric Downing. Devin Buronga. Sky would no last name. Emily would no last name. Hey, just the letter. All right. I don't know when it's up and what it stands for.


Dulci Hall, Clifton Cunningham, Hayley Dozier, Kendall Mack, Kyle Whitney, Caitlin Newkirk, John Mellberg, Hunter Thompson. Jenna crowed Happy birthday.


Yeah, probably not with an ass. Probably Hunter S. Thompson. Yeah, yeah. Jenna Crow's birthday. So happy birthday. Thomas Crowe's Julie Sláma Slower. I got to get better at this FE with no last name, Amber Farley, Madison Socia, Bobby Jo Chamblee, Chamblee, Amy Pierce. Trevor Hanson. Steven Fan. Stefan Fan. Steve, what does a Steve Dave MacGregor. That's his first name. Steve Dave. Rebecca Calpol Elizabeth Hawkins.


Matthew Paiser Shaw John Jessica McCulloh, Erica Buderim Holt. Amanda Hanson, Hannah Levina Fok, Eric Barnes', Jessica Stephens, Leonard Patiño. Steven Benice story would no last name. Hannah Burkel. John what is this. Gerd Trudy. OK, this is getting bad. Trudy Jones I think. Would Patrick ever Staind Crystal Solice. Emma would no last name. Melissa Rust Alesund Bennett. Laura McCabe. Raquel Subito. Emily Trenta. Lauren would no last name.


Megan and Jay Tokarski. Joel Julie. Julie Duncan. Emily Morlino Lauriston Kunis. Zachary Hernandez. Nick would no last name Taylor Absurd Apte Judy Michot. Jodie Macall. Niki Minniecon, Carolyn Phelps Phillips Goddammit Michael Hensleigh. Renie would no last name. Maricela would no last name. Brian Laurita La Lorette Angie. Adam Sorina Hammond Kondor. Nope. Yeah. Federico Nick. Nick Curtis. Er what what I do IRA what. Imagine Cassie Cassidy with no last name.


Luke Rogers. Jacobs Sean I think Shaw Gary MacMichael. Aaron Thisbe. Tyler Katz Katz. Lorik Blake Moore. Le'Veon Bell. Probably not Kyle Davidi. Daniel Daniel. What is this. Daniel Stuhlbarg. Laura Jeffrey Gohan.


Naureen Galíndez at the bottom of the page everybody really bright smile and struggles on these. I can't see the bottom of the page is the real pain in the ass on my knuckles on the table I get and the penmanship gets worth worse. Trying to save paper seven two lines. Go to the next page.


Noreen Galindo, Susanna Lee, Jessica Hayden, Chantelle Graham Chase Vertov. Thank you everyone for donating so Jimmy can get more paper chase, Rebel, Rebel Heart, CNN.


The hard names are at the bottom of the page. You don't know what am I doing? Top of the page here and I still can't read it. Robyn Rebel Rebel Riddle Barger, Tyler Bergert, Sarah Verisk, Wesley Adams, Carla Broman, Meghan Manning, Sierra ASV. What and Savu. How do you have UW? That doesn't make any sense. JF J WFA nine six eight. Robert Johnson. Collene Ferrus. Katie Jeff's probably Warren's daughter. Yeah.


Aaron Pinebrook. Hida Brecht. Aaron Jay. Emily Borkman. Adam SMA. What's Nicollet Caravel. John Commerson. Kameron Aline Reed. Kimberly DiMartino. Shanna's friend Nicole Oh Shannons friend Nicole from the, from the. OK, ok. Somebody broke the news to me that she has breast cancer which makes it worse. It's hard to say she overreacted. No I guess it a trolly. Melissa Raef, Theodore Tesa Douglas. Tamara would no last name McGoo 365, which is basically me.


Alex would no last name. Brian Fosset. Kyle Berretta. Jennifer Betis Beadle's Tesa Douglas, Jacob King, Justin WSA, Walt Whitney Laska. Bree Romero. Mandy would no last name. Joanna Smillie Slimly. Matt Robinson. Candice Wallace Marle with no last name. Emily Murray. Mary Whammer. Oh Hammer like Amatol Robin Davison. What I do here. Rachel barters Anawat no last name Jacob Heartwell. Lindsey read Raybon. Robin Khail. Beth Lemon. Lindsey Nope.


That's Lisa Chamberlain. Chamberlain Chamberlain. I don't know. Jessica Wood. No last name. Brandon Crume. Liow Jeff. Instead of silent one. Lindsey Nope. That's Whitney Leonard. When Amy Nicole. Andrew Jones. Heather Westerfield. Matthew McGeary. Travis would no last name Chiri Countermarch Markward. No last name. Jen Dysthymia.


It's Italian. What are you going to do. Consider up Crystal Robinson, Christie Edward Zach Osei Laria Roo's her husband Levi had a birthday and I missed it. Levi, hang in there. It gets worse. Blake Blake Lingnan Patrick struck Stockland, Madison Clark, Conrad Zem Zemsky. David Farley. Vanessa Haddington. Brook Trevino. Samantha Smith. Justin Vogeler. Michelle Harward. Jen Jenna Phelps. Sean Stanley, Laura Safford, I think Atlanta and Mike bouts, Brianna, when Candace Wallace, Dave Gray, Tyler Richards, Harry, but probably not Tyler Richards, but Dustin Beer Bay or maybe Brittney Conger.


Andy Davis, Lilly Morfe, I think Renee Lynn Lawry, Bob Skill, Kayla Ridell, Todd Ziegel, Zellick Dillinger, Zwillinger Ken Daniel Lopez, Tiffany Born.


Robert Nicholas Aaron Grumbach. Lindsay Grofe Crawford. Erica Chavez, Brooke Robinson. Amanda Larson, Homestretch. Larry Page. Megan lined linebacker linebacker Linda Kerr. Now Kobe with no last name. Rachel, what does this Rachel but what? Rachel maybe rutt can't Kali's Doda. None of those are right. Cassie Sawyer. Evelin And what is the Evelin Zamora granola condo granola. I know. That's that's me. I have terrible penmanship. Angelina Marcone. Alicia yebra.


Preston Letterman. Megan would no last name. Michael Bailey, Andrew MYSE Messemer, Nadia Ashoor Robertshaw. Serwotka, Serwotka. Megan would no last name Ruga. What does this Pungo God damn it. I don't know if that's a parent or a Kaitlynn away. And on the other hand, Doxey Kennedy, Sackman, Steven Delva, Giovana Stoner, Dana Stephanie Flemyng, Christopher Gael's, Michelle Lopez, Becca Pitts', Sidney Raines Pratts.


Dominic Brunson. Renie would no last name take a Bernstine Bernstine. Logan Fisher, Tamsen Hunter, Michael Keenan, Matthew Moon Terryn Noiret. Terrence Clark Saidi's When Shemer Max Price. Melissa Perren Haven. Belski Figler McLure Laura Cok Laroque Pyloric James No Last Name.


Michelle Rider. Axel Amadeus. That's the person's real name that's rocking right now. Shantelle with no last name. Nicole Sereda. Crystal Cresta Joelson Bob Menzel. Megan Saunders'. Heather Nelson. Isabelle Orosco Ruscoe. Kevin Love Story Bernhart. Joe Cortez. Katie Hanks. Joshua Perkins. Oh Oil Field Oil Field Car Co.. Chris fucked up Meira with no last name.


Barbe what is this. Baburova what can't be right. Ian would no last name to Hannah. Jilian Laszlo. Desiree no that's Daisy. Ray Hayes. Jenna Sarva Catherine what. Cathe Kathia Alvarenga. Courtney Graham. Michelle Pitman. Vanessa Trujillo. Daniel Hair. Jessica LAT's Tanya Tanya Albinoni. Oh boy. Chris boy. Kristen down in Jersey with no last name. Madison Hansen. Katie Roby, Amanda Mitchell. Nick Jobbery Jubouri. Amanda Mitchell. Nick Belle.


Matt Cok, Matt Barch. Well I don't, I apologize. Julie Fargo. Andrea Hardell. Mia would no last name. Dustin Henry Comput Petherick Hosie, Santiago, Shannah Furguson, Amy Deane's and Kasey Sawyer. And if you guys think that's fucked up, if I print them out, it would be way worse because at least I've read them once. Thank you guys so much for everything you do for us. Thank you, everybody. Thank you.


Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Extra Thanksgiving. Thank you. Extra everything. Thank you so much for everything. So much gravy on it. Yes. So much this deep, thick gravy.


We really do appreciate everything you do for us. Everybody does for us. We can't live without you guys. Obviously you make the show, you make this a thing, especially this year. We can go on the road at all. Right. So, I mean, like a lot of people, if you maybe worked for a restaurant or you do things like that, we basically took that was our main chunk of our income and just wiped out clean.


Right. Just absolutely gone this year, which is brutal. And everybody here is you've made it so the show can go and we can it doesn't matter because you guys support us. Yeah. So thank you guys for that honesty. You save our lives and you save the show. And we just we can't tell you how much we appreciate you, Jimmy. What who where can they find you so you can tell them how much you appreciate them?


They know plenty. It's fine. I'm just I'm just very grateful this week and as every week, but more so this week because I don't I'm not going to see my fucking family this week. This is now if it's wiped out all my money, it's also wiped out my fucking ability to see family. I'm not going to go do it. And I just I'm I'm thankful for you guys. So thanks for being with us on this ride.


Where can they tell you how thankful they are? You know my name and you can copy and paste. If it's long where we are, you'll find it. We're we're on there somewhere. You know how to find people on social or on the Internet.


That said, hope you enjoyed it. No, we weren't. Take people. Thought we were. To take this week off, now you'll be off no, we don't care if it's a holiday, you might need this extra. If it's a holiday, that's the point. What's the holiday?


Yeah, you extra is what you need with the holiday. So thank you, everybody, very, very much. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Now.