This week in Whiteside, Tennessee, a series of simple clues leads to a most unrepentant killer who seems to bask in what he feels are his accomplishments.

Welcome to small town murder. Lo, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder may indeed, Jimmy, yeah, indeed. My name is James Patrick. I'm here with my co-host, Jimmy Listman. Thank you again for joining us. We are so excited, as usual, for horrible things, which sounds strange, but when you hear the show, you'll understand why. We are very excited this week and we want to thank everybody for everything you've done for us and continue to do for us, like especially those Apple podcast reviews, the purple icon on your iPhone.

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We're comedians. Everything is real here. This is not you know, we're not making anything up for comedic effect. That's the sad part with all of this is real. You might say, what? Comedy and murder. What are you talking about? Well, you know, there's a lot of stuff that goes on around a murder. Obviously, the actual murder isn't funny. Oh, that's awful. A couple hundred. We've heard very few of funny actual murders.

It just doesn't happen, really. So it's everything around it. That's funny. First of all, it's about a small town. We've all been in small towns, lived in small towns. There's always something to make fun of. Even if you love the place, you're like, this is pretty hilarious. So we're making fun of that. We're making fun of murderers. Good God, what what other recourse do we have? Make fun of an idiot who tried to do something and did it poorly and couldn't get away with it.

So if we go out of our way to do and try our hardest not to do is we make sure not to make fun of the victims or the victim's families because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. Let's have that's what I'm saying. Let's do it. That sounds good to you. Let's go think we're involved. Come, come. I think it's time, Jimmy. And it's time. It's time to shout. Shut out, Ivan. Give me my.

Let's do it, Jimmy. Let's go on a trip, OK, shall we let's let's head on down to Tennessee. The deal now this week, I must warn you ahead of time, we sometimes people will say like, oh, you guys are mean to the south, which we are mean to the south, but we're just as mean everywhere. So it's definitely not specific to that's why we say don't get offended at when we're making fun of a place.

Yeah. Because every place we've done, we've made fun of equally. It's a it's a roast kind of a thing. That's the whole thing. We make fun of where we're from too. That's the point. It's a roast. It's a joke. We don't care. We're going on what other people say about a place that we've never been for the most part. So we don't give a shit. Also, if you love it, then who cares what anybody else thinks?

You should be able to laugh a little bit. At least they're saying your town so happy about that. So fuck down this here. This area is some backwoods hillbilly shit. This is no joke. We're not just joking around. This is like people in the South would be like, oh, that was goddamn hillbillies. Jesus. Yeah. You don't wanna go around there. Like, it's it's bad. This is where it's all hollers. OK, it's all.

Area boy, Tennessee, Whiteside, Tennessee, it's actually Egypt, to be exact. Is it really what? Whiteside is the town there and I'll show you the how all the layout I have a topographical map. Egypt Holer Egypt. Hello. But never said like that in that area. This is in southeastern Tennessee, just north of the Georgia border. I'm talking just north of there. This is some deep bumph.

This is some deep stuff right here, about an hour and fifty up to Nashville, 20 minutes over to Chattanooga. So you can get there quick. But it's like separated from it might as well be another planet. It's just the separate little thing. We're in the hollers, say, two hours and 40 minutes to Pigeon Forge, which was Episode 182. We did it back in July. Twenty nineteen. That was the two glasses of Blood. Right episode, which was absolutely insane.

So any time we're in Tennessee, it's always nuts. Tennessee, West Virginia, certain states have a just an L.A. marked with blood on them, didn't they? Well, then they gave up the law in the blood. There was blood drinking, forced blood drinking. That was a mess. That episode, that crime, not the episode. It's in Marion County area code four two three motto here. They're trying to attract tourism. So they've seen other cities try to attack track tourism.

So they're like, maybe this will work. But I feel like when it's this, it's it just sounds scary. Quote, What happens in them stays in them. That doesn't sound right. Right. They just used that. We got some I feel like that that just sounds like you're going to get like sexually assaulted in the woods, doesn't it hurt while a banjo plays. That sounds scary to me. To lose some innocence. I feel like it.

So a little bit of history of this town now of first of all, in the late seventeen hundreds dragging canoe lived here, but dragging canoe was a I was a Cherokee guy here and he was kind of ahead of his little group and he lived at running water, which is what this town used to be called. Whiteside used to be called running water at a Chickamauga Cherokee town at the time. So it was a it was it was an Indian town, Cherokees.

You know, we're occupying the whole place during the American Revolution and afterwards dragging canoe's forces were sometimes drawn by joined by the Chickasaw in the Shawnee and some other tribes, along with British loyalists and agents of Spain and France to fight the Americans. So, yeah, it was a whole they saw it as encroachment on their area and they were like, let's fight these guys.

You want them out of here, too? Yeah, I'll do it with you. And I'm sure they British probably told them, make a deal. If you do this, then we'll you know, once we beat them, we'll make sure that no one's allowed to settle on your little plot of land. That's you know, I'm sure that was the deal and they would have lied to them and taken it all, I'm sure, also. So there was a series of conflicts that lasted a decade after the Revolutionary War.

That was all sorts of shit that you don't really hear about. It sounds like they had the Revolutionary War. Constitution was like, you know, immediately signed the day after the last shot was fired. And then they had fireworks and a flag went up on a thing. And then fucking George Washington was on a dollar bill. That's what it sounds like, you know, happened in the world. But that's not what happened at all is a lot messier than that.

So they all this shit happened dragging. Canu became the preeminent war leader among the Southeastern Indians. Really, he was the man here. He served as war chief of a group known as the Chickamauga Cherokee from 1777 until he died in 1792. He died of exhaustion or probably more like a heart attack because he they they had a battle that they won. And so they had an all night celebration and he danced all night and then dropped dead. Really?

Yeah. So they think he might had a heart attack too long of a day. He was an old guy. That's what happened. You fight all day and dance all night, you know, can't do that now. So either heat exhaustion or just heart attack probably so now Whiteside used to be running water, used to be Atnah and ayi Atnah with an A like the like the insurance company.

Yeah. And then Aetna without the AA also and running water. So they his name and every something different every once in a while. It's named after James Anderson Whiteside who's an attorney and a railroad promoter and land investor. Attorney. Yeah, attorney. Railroad promoter and land investors are probably just a real asshole, I assume. Just I'm not sure dude with deep pockets deep. Yeah, he was a leading citizen in the best sense. It says he never this is from an account of the day, never a very strong man physically.

He was temperamentally, temperamentally self controlled, kindly mannered, careful and methodical in his own affairs and in those of his clients. So he's a kind of a nice guy, quote. One of nature's gentlemen, that's what he's that's what he was called by people here, they just got everybody said they praise his kindly and considerate management. So he seems like a real nice guy. He did cast his vote in favor of secession. So that's not really a great move.

Wasn't the nicest thing. There now are railroad tracks and the white side train tunnel and the white side trestle in 1863 kind of were a big deal for the Civil War because it was passage and any kind of transportation during the civil war was big. They were constantly trying to take over tracks, destroy tracks like rail was how you got lots of shit somewhere fast. Otherwise it was you were walking it and that's not easy. Put it in wagons and we're walking its way harder than throw it in there and sit down and shovel some coal in the fucking fire.

It's much better here. So here is a map of the area, as I could show Jimmy here. I'll show you a couple little maps. Whiteside. There's Devil's Pocket, by the way, right up there, which sounds scratch ankle hollow.

Scratch angle. Holler there. That's there. That's it. There's a bunch of that pucker brush. Yeah. That's all up in the scratch angle there. Scratch you up water tank holler there. That's that. I'll show you the topographical map in a second too because Egyptology this way. OK, that's Murphy. Holler this way there down Murphy Holler Road and there's Egypt Holler Road. Go down that way. That's how it works. I found a town legend.

I couldn't find any reviews of this town because honestly just nobody goes here. Seems like the type of place where you're like, oh yeah. You wanna go around that. Probably sidestep that. You all sidestep that because what happens in them stays in them, I hear. And I'm saying that'll be you stay in them. All right.

So the legend there seems to be a legend and I've read several stories written about this that aren't said to be true accounts. But like accounts of this legend type of thing of a short fat girl who lives in the woods and short, they keep saying the short round human like creature who will comfort an injured person in the woods and then rip their insides out through their side. They'll rip and put their hand in and pull their organs out like a fucking claw game.

That's real. Yeah, it's a real thing. I'm sure it's a real it's a real legend. Yeah. Like, I fucking like. That's real. Yeah, that's true. That's a real story that I believe. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that's gonna play or which type gets called up lost. Yeah.

A woman will comfort you. A woman, a short fat woman. That right. Your girl. Right. OK, younger will comfort you. She'll take everything inside you out of your head. You'll think everything's fine then she'll dig in like I believe above your hip, under your ribs I assume is a blow pocket. Well, I mean otherwise in the stomach you got a lot of muscles there. It's pretty, pretty open on the side there. It's a good place to extract.

Feel like you're going to yank that out. Devil's fucking devil's pocket like a claw game and pull it. So that's what happens there. They are dumb. That's that's a special that's I guess they call the local Bigfoot.

I don't know. All right. That hillbilly chupacabras going hunting for Mabel, the hillbilly jack. That is a jackalope. Yeah, it's the Tennessee jackalope right there. She to pull your organs out, boy. Oh, the Tennessee jackalope woman like creature. Woman like creature who's short and round. They keep saying some people in this town one hundred and thirty two wow. Damned souls reside here. This is a very small area, super small, very small.

Twenty minutes from Chattanooga. Nobody's here. That's what I mean. It seems like this. People are avoiding this on purpose. It really seems like it. If you walk down a street in New York for twenty minutes, you've passed more people than live in this town. Twenty minutes you could just take a snapshot of a sidewalk on a block. There's more people there than on this side, entire town and the whole town and our live shows.

We got like eight of these towns and one live show. That's unbelievable.

How crazy is that? So population here is up fourteen percent since nineteen ninety for some reason. I don't know why it's cheap.

That's why I probably female population is almost 60 percent, which is way, way, way, way out of whack.

Women want to live here I guess. Well it's just old. Ten percent of the population is eighty five or older. Wow. It's normally under two percent. So normally about a percent and a half. Eighty five and older, ten percent or eighty five and older. But James that's fourteen people. What is. Yeah but still fourteen. The whole town is eighty five or older. What's happening here. How are they living this long. Forty four percent of the population is over sixty and there's basically no children here.

That's unbelievable. There's a couple of babies under four. That's it. There's like no kids from like you know, four to twelve. They don't exist. Sixty percent of the population are forty or older.

Forty four percent of the population is over sixty. Way. No, no, no, you said 60 percent over 40 because I said no, because they added the 14 percent of the other one. Yeah, OK. Older, older gels in Old Town.

Yeah, married population here. This is Remarque of 14 percent. 14 percent. How is that possible? Normally 50 50, it's 14 percent. Really weird. The stats obviously with a small one hundred thirty two, the sample size is so small you get some hilarious stats single with no children. Fifty five percent. That sounds like just like spring break. Yeah. That sounds like. Yeah, I'm going there. Party plus one. Oh get down.

Fifty. No one's got kids. Everybody's single. Yeah. Nope. Everybody's old. They're single because their spouses died. Right. A long time ago and you know single because they're widowed or widowers want to hear the widowed centage.

Normally it's five point eight percent. OK here widowed thirty four point seven percent boom. More than a third of the town are widows. Man, think about that. Oh, man. They died in the mine. This is a story town. One goes, one dies young and the other dies when they're one hundred and twelve. What a weird goddamn thing. A race of this town. You know, normally we see whites like sixty two percent, blacks.

Twelve percent here.

One hundred percent white. Yeah. So everyone here is old and white. Wow.

You can pick average resident is just you know, I think the last time we are here the most it was like ninety six percent. Yeah. We've never had it right. I think we have before have seen a small it's always a small hundred percent.

One hundred percent. No non white person lives here which is pretty remarkable. It sounds on purpose of being honest with you. Thirty five point nine percent are religious, which is actually much lower than the normal fifty fifty, which is we every time we see a town with more elderly, it's like that. I feel like once you get to a certain age you're like, no, God would let me do this. No God would let me feel this awful and not let me die.

Not it would never happen. All my friends are dead. Why would a God do that to me? I feel like they really by the time you're that old or that you just forgot that you were. Yeah. You forgot to go to church and then you're not religious anymore. I used to do something on Sunday Cup and I feel it. I guess I'll jar peaches.

Is that what I do on Sundays? I'm not sure.

Thirty six percent religious, like I said, seventeen point two percent Baptist because Baptists are the Catholics of the South, obviously, and then it's kind of spread around pretty evenly. A couple of this couple of that zero point zero percent Jewish though and zero point zero percent Islam. Very low though. Just ain't no God in the holler and said only that fat girl rips your pancreas out, huh? She's kind of a god. I guess if you could rip a pancreas out shot.

But I've seen the devil down in the dark coal mine. I seen God, but I seen the devil.

Yeah. That know that.

But I knew there ain't no God because I saw the devil in the devil. Unemployment rate here is about almost double the national rate at this point. The median household income is higher than you would imagine, though. It's about fifty seven and a half thousand. The rest of the country here, it's about forty three thousand, which is low. But a lot of times it's it's because Chattanooga's there. So you can OK, if you can hitch a ride on the back of the turnip truck, you can get on into Chattanooga as it passes by.

I just picture the jerk Steve Martin in the jerk standing outside and getting taken from one fence post to another. 70 percent of the households make fifty thousand or less, though. So like everybody makes forty three thousand dollars, it's not an average because some people make ten and some people make eighty. It's everyone makes forty thousand dollars. That's it. Jobs are all transportation and warehousing because I feel like there's one place that does something in that hires most.

There's a warehouse where you can move shit around there. Yeah. And then there's also the job where you move that shit onto a truck and take that same drive that you get away.

Or you can just go to Chattanooga because it's 20 minutes away and there's probably work that we either hold shit or move shit.

That's your job. Who's holding shit and who's moving up? You're moving shit. Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, it's your shift. Shit. Now get down in there and hold that shit. All right. I'll be back to move that shit in a minute. Goddamn it. I'm doing something metallurgic. How the shit move and shit. How hard is it to hold shit. I don't know what moving all the shit. You're just holding it. Anybody could hold.

He's sitting there smoking cigarettes and now you're in hold. Shit move shit. Jimmy and James. Holy shit. Motion shot here is move and shit y'all doing now. I'm the one holding shit today guys. Today Jimmy's movin shit. So if you need to talk to somebody, go talk to me. He opens it today. It's his move day. That's why we switch off. Otherwise we get Bowron all this. James, I'm here. So you know what I.

Jim spazzing out, he's doing James Holden shit. What can I do for you now? Now he's moving. She will, and she now works here. So that's a good business for him. I think we're in Jimmy's move and we are doing great with it, but we have so many of these side businesses popping up. It's amazing. Honestly, the show has been it's going to be lucrative someday when we get all of these businesses that we've launched off the ground.

I feel like at this point that Veza is going to be impressed. It's going to be something. It's going to be something that's basically what Amazon is old and shit and move it. Move it. That's us. Move shidduch. Pretty much everything anywhere. It doesn't make sense.

Some people hold onto it and move this shit. I'm Holden and then Jimmy moving while I made that shit for our three friends not to make the shit. Then I hold the shit and then when we need to go somewhere else, we move the shit. So it's a lot of shit to move now. Jesus Christ, cost of living here is 80 out of 100. So it's higher than you would imagine for the middle of nowhere, but not the housing.

The housing is very low, 46 low on the housing median home cost one hundred six thousand one hundred dollars home. There's really nothing available. There's not a lot available because it's so small.

But of the occupied houses here, this estate is going to make you this is the I've never heard anything like this before. I had to look it up somewhere else to make sure it wasn't a typo.

On one site, 40 percent of the houses are worth less than twenty thousand dollars. What is that, 40 percent of the dwellings that people currently occupy in it with their homes and their grandma because they're one hundred. Yeah. Are worth less than what? What could be worth less than twenty thousand dollars. That's a dwelling.

That's an absolute that's actually a travel trailer. Right.

As I say, that's a used car. Like what are they. Something that you actually dragged behind a car is not like a trailer that you can set.

That's an actual trailer was like a twenty sixteen Camry. What the fuck are they living in? I don't think I heard of that before. Trying to be a twenty thousand dollars. It's not two hundred twenty thousand dollars. I don't know what house you can get for twenty thousand. You can get a travel trailer for, for 15, 20 grand. I said well that explains this a lot then, because where do you get to this. It'll actually explain the let's do it.

The White Side Tennessee real estate report.

OK, your average two bedroom rental, which doesn't exist here, is seven hundred forty dollars theoretically.

Yeah, but that doesn't matter. The idea, it's the idea of it if you believe in it. If they're now. Here we go. I found a hundred and fourteen acres. OK, looks like this. Yeah. That's this dwelling on there.

What is that mean. What is that. A camper. Is that a camper. Camper. Nope. Just camper. Yep. That's camper. Yeah. Probably about less than twenty thousand dollars I guess that's a house. That's one of them. Well that's a dwelling. This is a zero bedroom zero bathroom. One hundred fourteen acres on this on the side and top of the mountain. Wow. With a four by four road at the top of the mountain property.

Holy shit. Your property is on the rock face. That's pretty much what it is here. Five hundred and fifty thousand dollars for this. You're out of your fucking mind. Yeah. No one wants to do that. I guess they've hosted parties and bands before. So it says you can make additional money if you host a concert here.

Gee, thanks. Wonderful.

I found forty one wooded acres on Egypt. Holer Road here. Oh boy. On the Georgia side though, it's right just over the Georgia side, but forty one acres. Ninety nine thousand dollars. That's a deal. That's a deal. I mean that's a scary forty one acres of what a you know, north Georgia. That's rough, that's rough territory there. But at ninety nine grand there there's like snakes and shit. Yeah. Three bedroom, two bath, eleven hundred sixty two square feet.

It's decent, not terrific but it doesn't look like a shack or a travel trailer. It's private actually.

It's down a little hill. One hundred and forty five thousand bucks for that. So that's all that's available to buy even in the area. Horrifying, horrifying selection.

You can post concerts over here.

If you're in your real estate agent, do you give them what you need? They come back with that shit, though. Here you go. I got this secure gated spot to park and camp at the bottom of a mountain.

It says the one thing places offices to holiday Rambler Park.

Get out here. You can all do right things to do. Smokey Mountain Fiber Arts Festival Fiber.

Because I was like, what the hell does that mean? That's exactly what I did for for fiberoptics. It says this is the top of the website, which I find lovely here. Learning keeps us young, preserving and sharing local heritage. Arts keeps us grounded. If the old proverb Idle Hands are the devil's workshop, we've got the antidote exploring fiber arts. This. Ring, I don't know what that means. I don't know, but they're mixing religion into it.

You got a pepper in idle hands with the devil here. It's the 11th annual Smoky Mountain Fiber Arts Festival. I think that was last year presented by towns and artists and blah, blah, blah. Tennessee Valley Hand Spinners Guild. Yep, that's what it is. It's fucking knitting and I think it's knitting and shit here. The mission to the festival is free and open to the public. There's just need you to please come and get something. Preregister, please.

I know. It's just I know you don't want to watch me, but come on, you don't like it. But you can preregister four hands on classes if you want to learn how to do it. Please come. Please come. You can you can learn to play. You don't have to just watch me. We can. Well, we both do it. We'll talk. It'll be fun. We can be friends because I don't have many friends, but where our most popular classes sell out early by the morning.

So watch out here.

Our festival focus is on the sheep to shawl concept. Get out of the festival, focus on the Shia, on the sheep to shawl concept and visitors will see the transformation of fleece into finished goods and art pieces. The second annual fashion show will offer an opportunity for vendors, instructors and participants to model their artistic creations. You're weird for art. The fashion show will be Saturday at noon in the amphitheater. Holy shit, they fleece the sheep and show you how to make that shit into yarn and they show you how to make a shawl.

Congratulations. Wow.

Also, the Native Americans of East Tennessee find out what archaeologists have learned about prehistoric life in the Tuka Leakey Cove from pottery, stone tools and other artifacts found in one of the largest archaeological dig projects in Tennessee history. You could have just asked them if you were not fucking heard them, they would have told you they were thrilled about telling you everything. You could have found all sorts of stuff. What's so magic about to have Americans? You can have people there now.

They tell you, unbelievable. Oh, yeah, they're happy, too. And it's all real. Also, East Tennessee Mountain Culture, which doesn't need to be celebrated. You'll see a log cabin made of Han huge logs and learn about one room schoolhouse is in grist mills. Wow. While cultivating an appreciation for the resilience and ingenuity of pioneer people of the Smoky Mountains revoting. Wow. And then we'll use some guy who has some assumptions of what the natives used to do.

You know, he's going to tell us I mean, we'll tell you all about the one room schoolhouse after we killed them all. We look through their shit and I think we got what they do. I think we figured it out. I'm not positive.

We're fascinated with what we killed and we want to share with you what what they do. And also up the up the road a little bit here, not in this area, but a little bit up the road, as I just had to put it down, because it's crazy.

The Dunlap Coke Ovens, Bluegrass Festival, Coke ovens, coke ovens, bluegrass FAZLUR into some mining down there. Yeah, I hear the name of it. People love talking about the coke ovens.

Well I saw a picture of this festival and it's like, it looks like a stage in somebody's yard like this terrible stage. And it has like this, you know, banner that you made for sixty dollars. And it says the, you know, Dunlap Coke Ovens Bluegrass Festival. And there was a bunch of big bearded hillbillies along with like Jesco White singing on stage.

It was crazy. Yeah. Crime rate.

What we're interested in here in this town, property crime more than double really what's there's one hundred and forty people who is stealing shit and they're all elderly. What do you do get I mean, is this old ladies old lady fight that they bust an old lady fight club last year and it's a what happen? You think that's crazy. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime. More than triple the more than triple the average.

What the fuck is happening?

They must have two, three really bad kids, right? It's like, dude, they don't have any kids. There must be like two one. Grandma is a dick and she is just vicious, very vicious, apparently. And they can't they can't put her away because she's so old. They feel bad. She keeps getting acquitted. All right. She keeps getting bailed out.

She'll do it again. They're like, now, Ethel, we told you, cut that shit out. I'm not taking it now more. We're going to put you away finally. And she's like, now you won't.

You got to Mamie. That's right. So that's somebody. Eisenhower White one. Oh, Mamie White. Yes.

They have clothes thinking of somebody. Maybe this is that one of the Eisenhower is a real nice guy.

So murder. Let's talk about a murder. Yes. Or interesting hair murder. Let's do it.

Let's get into it. OK, now, first of all, I got to show you the area in topography.

Fantastic little relief map of the area here. That's the same thing with the blue water that goes through there. Oh, that's a water white as the road, and then it was Whiteside. Now we have your different hollers, now they've got your your water tank holer, you're getting a holler there. That's where that mountain is, where that one house says you live. Right there. Now the other side of that house that you could buy it, that's the big steep slope goes on down into devil's pocket.

Yep. So you want to be a half there, half devil's pocket. You got your Clough's holler, you got your what is this here. Your scratch ankle holler there. Right. Strip mines over in this area. That's that's what you want there. There is the Georgia border, by the way. That's how close we are. I mean, it's like you could walk to the Georgia border from the center of town. And right here is Egypt holer.

And that's where we're going to spend most of our time in the Egypt Hollo area between Murphey Hollow and the Windy Mountain. So, yeah, it's this area. And you see how it works, though. It goes through there.

And these are all these little hills with these little like tight valleys, Little Pollos, as they call them.

So it's a weird kind of have to see that to understand it. And I'll post on social media, too, because our little place, bizarre little place.

So let us talk about some people in this place. Let's talk about first a young lady who's not from this place. Lucky for her, she's not from here. Tara Stowe. Tara Michelle Soto. To be perfectly accurate, she was born December twenty seventh, nineteen seventy one year old Tara here, and she lives with her grandmother in Tifton, Tennessee, which is pretty close to nearby Tife Tony. I think it's rather like near Chattanooga, but, you know, not on this side of it, on another side of it.

So she lives in Tifton, Tonia and I know in November of nineteen eighty six she is 14 years old, going to be fifteen in December, obviously on the twenty seventh. And you know, she lives in this area. Her grandmother who she lives with had gone to Dallas for several days and Tara was staying with her aunt whose name is Betty Davis. Yes, of course. Fantastic. Fantastic. Right. So Tara's hanging with Betty Davis now on November the twenty ninth, nineteen eighty six, about eight o'clock PM, Betty Davis leaves her mobile home as one does want to do and teef tonier to pick up her mother, who is Tara's grandmother in Chattanooga.

So, yeah, so Tara is at the house here now, Tara and Tara and also Carrie, who is batteries. Betty's other daughter were left in the mobile home with some of their friends. So she's got a fourteen year old daughter and she leaves her leaves the house with three boys. They're OK. These this is John Degnan. Degnan, yeah. John Degnan, David Bagnold and Tony Bagna. All the Degnan boys are there. All them them boys.

Come on over here you degnan some bitch. I tell you what, that absolutely sounds like an old southern man who can't think of a way to insult you then son. None bastard son. I'm so angry I can't get words out of my mouth. I'll tell you what. So she goes to pick up her mom and leaves her daughter and her other daughter there with three boys.

With three boys and how long she's supposed to be, you know, I mean, it's going to be at least an hour.

I mean, enough time to for everyone to be pregnant by the time everybody's got it. Degnan in them, every man that diagnosed me good. I got back up. But yeah. So Tara, she talks on the telephone here as well. She talks to some people on the phone and she talks to one young man who is an acquaintance of hers. Yeah. And his name is Homer Tiel. He's twenty years old.

Why is a 14 year old the phone with a fucking twenty year old?

That's why we need to supervise sometimes. But I mean, it's hard to if it's a fourteen year old, they kind of an almost fifteen kind of have to trust that this and that you can't really control. Who are you talking to on the phone? And I need to see ID. It's really difficult. It's hard. You have to kind of trust that. You hope you did it right or you hope that they're just not snowed by somebody or some shit like that.

But anyway, she is talking to this guy, by the way, his nickname, he doesn't go by Homer Tiel, obviously at twenty years old. We think he got to give you guesses. What's his name.

Tell me, how do we know now. Now, Butch. Yeah, but that was my next guy. Well, I figured it was Homer. Butch Teal. It was either that or Buzz Buzz Butch champ. You know, some weird shit like that. I don't know. So she talks on the phone with him for a while while the Degnan boys are they're up to no damn good. None. I'll tell you what they are up to. No Degnan.

Good that John Dagg. He ain't bad boy when you get that David and Tony together with him, that's a different story. All the Dagnino just comes on out than boys. And you you see it just a rising to the surface. Too much Degnan fun, too much darkman fun. Now, later that night, Tara takes off with her friends, John David of the Degnan Boys there in the back of a pickup truck driven by John's father.

Oh, so, yeah, he came to pick the boys up and she joined him. They all hop down in the back of a pickup truck and headed on yonder to Egyptology. OK, that's what they did here. They they're heading to Egypt. Tyler, the community in in Marion, they're the dagga. The nuns live, of course, in Egypt, an Egypt holiday. Egypt doesn't even have like a like it's not even a town. It's not a thing.

It's just a weird place where an area bulbar. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's it's very towns. You have no city, just no one to set up shop around here. Yeah. It's a road, Egypt hollow road that runs in the center. All these hollows have a road that runs down them and that's whatever hollow road. And then just people live like up in the hills off of it. That's literally what it is. They live in the hills.

It's weird, man.

That's basically the crown king is a fever. But never mind. I don't think I have it's a it's basically an Arizona holiday. That's yeah.

It's real. Take a dirt road into the place. Yeah. It's twenty seven miles from the freeway. Yeah. Twenty six miles of dirt road.

You pull and you get into the quote unquote town of crowding that is basically, you know, a hollow six trailers and.

Yeah, I mean there's a there's a bunch of Degnan couple buildings in there that's a restaurant, a bar and then a quote unquote hotel.

You don't want to stay in the spiders. It's all spiders, just spiders. Hold hands, man. Spiders ain't even a building. That bed looks so soft. Oh, my God. It's all spiders.

It's just a big. I'm stuck. Help me. Help me. Oh, that's the biggest spider ever seen, Spider Man. So he she takes off with you don't want your fourteen year old daughter in the back of a pickup truck with three Dagens. No, not a one. Degnan Fine. Three three. Dagnino I'm not doing that.

So in the back of the pickup truck headed on yonder to Egypt. Holler there. So they're going there she is. Let out about 10:00 pm near a trailer where Butch Teal lives with his grandmother. OK, so God damn it, you don't want your fourteen year old hanging out with a twenty year old in a trailer in a hollow. You just don't want that going on. And she's just going just there by herself.

Well, they let her out here and we'll talk about what ends up happening here. We need to get get into Butch a little bit here. Butch Teal, twenty years old, local ne'er do well. Yeah, that's all.

I mean, honestly, think about what do you think he's got a bright future. He's killing it. He's not dotcom. He's got he's right now he's blowing up. Yeah. It's the eighties so he's really ahead of the curve. He's way ahead of it. He's like ten years.

A lot of it. I don't know. That is Elon Musk's birthday. Wow. Homer. But that's that's impressive. He's made of real life himself. Pretty impressive. So Butch, local mayor, Madugalle, local Hollo Shitheel. He he's raised by his grandmother at that point because he never met his father and his mother died when he was fourteen, got to him.

So that's a tough way to start. Yeah.

You're living in a place. It's not an easy place to come from. Yeah, no, father, mother's dad living with grandma. He spent his entire life in Egypt. Hello. This is I mean, this is just what he knows. This is there's nothing else. He only went to school up until the ninth grade, which is when you're fourteen, which is when his mom died. So I feel like once mom died, he was like, I don't need school like that.

Like I or maybe he would have been just to overwhelm to go to school for a while. And once you don't go to school for a couple of months, you're like, I guess I'm not going back to school. She was the one making me I'm not going. Yeah, I mean, Grandma, don't you don't even know. I tell grandma that there's no school no more. They stop doing school years ago grandma yell bitch, grandma, close that damn thing.

Think the government money now you dumb shit old lady wrong with you so that we grandma everything be fine grandma.

With these pills she got a thing. My grandma she got a thing. And this is Monday. Tuesday when she take them all.

Yeah. All of them are down the middle right down.

So he live there, goes to school up and not didn't finish ninth grade. Just you know caught in the middle. I'm in the middle. So he's got eight eighth full grade there. And about the time that Tara gets there, Tim Sexton and Butch Teel were driving to Betty Davis's trailer. So they're crossing paths here on the way. Sexton is told by.

Tell that that James Degnan well, this is amazing, James, one of Degnan boys. He is currently because they're like, where's James? And he goes, Oh, well, he's currently living in a war in the woods, up in the hollow there.

There's a fourth Degnan that's living all alone in the woods. James lives in the woods with James, one of the three. No, John, David and Tom. Yeah, you're right. There's a one. This is a fourth and fourth one. I mean, yeah, fourth Agnon. This particular Degnan. Oh my God. Degnan boys sound like a nightmare. It's a problem. Yeah. The Dagnino. I feel like everyone in town knows the Dagnino boys and they cause a lot of problems like the back none bastards.

It's become a you know, a word. So yeah. This Jesus Christ is living up in the woods.

He's living in the woods in Egypt hollow because John Degnan senior had taken out a warrant on him, charging James with, quote, Jesus Christ, whipping little David Degnan. So there's a David Degnan to and James quote, put a weapon on him. And I don't know if that means he actually whipped him or if that's just he beat him up or whatever it is. But, you know, in whatever Southern parlance we're dealing with here, either way he took it.

He's a warrant has been taken out against him, which again, sounds like you can only take out a warrant if you live in a holiday, I think. Right.

Dad can take out the warrant and I don't take a warrant out. That sounds right. Doesn't it sound? Yeah. So it doesn't sound civilization. You can't just take out a warrant like the police are supposed to say.

Yeah, he called the cops and then the police are looking for him, not I took a warrant out on him. So, I mean, you hire a man because there's no police, no police.

I'd like to take a warrant out on somebody. Yeah. Huh. Now, listen, he he whipped my child, like with a whip.

No. And he is my child. So he he whipped himself. See, that's where you're wrong. Real confused. And now somehow he lives in the woods. So I need to take a warrant out for him. That I can arrest him is all very good.

If you're going to have to call a little bit later when Tony comes in, he handles this sort of thing. Really, I'm just mainly like a speeding ticket kind of guy. I don't really know how to do paperwork, but it's my day down at the at the the hold hold the shit.

That's that's going to be your problem here. You got the hold and shit. Shit that's gonna be your problem.

If you're holdin shit, you've got time to worry about this. I've got a typewriter. I will write the warrant.

You do that up and you put that like with some tape on your refrigerator and you work on that. All right then. OK, goodbye. I believe that's how the call went.

Probably he's like, I put a warrant out on you, but they told me I better run to the woods and live in a tent. So now this guy lives in a tent in the holler, which sounds like a nightmare because it's got a warrant because he put a weapon on little David back up according to what this says. Here now, James Degnan, who's a cousin of Jagjit, John Degnan Senior, and David Degnan was Tara Stow's boyfriend of the fourteen year old, is going out with the guy who lives in the woods because his dad took out a warrant for whuppin.

Another one. Oh, OK. OK, so little Tarasco. Fourteen. Her boyfriend lives in the woods in a tent. Oh my God.

Which is exactly what you want for your daughter. This it's all I ever wanted for my daughter is to find a nice boy who lives in the tent because his dad took a warrant out on him.

This is wonderful. So, yeah, that's how that goes. So the whole thing is what they're saying is Butch Teel is saying, yeah, you're looking for James. He's living out in the woods, blah, blah, blah. I can take you to James, OK? That's how this works. James wants to see you. That's how it goes now. Mr. James misses you. He's really lonely out there. He's just sitting in a tent in the woods.

He can't come to town. He's got that damn warrant works. If his dad sees me, go pick him up. I mean, I know the cops don't care. Is his dad type it himself? I think I don't even know how got of Degnan warrant he wrote on the back of the menu down from the diner. It's just a paper menu he wrote over like the breakfast section. It's just a marker. So you could see he has a warrant for biscuits and say you can either arrest him or you could order like some hash browns.

That's a smothered, covered either one look like gravy.

He's got sausage in it there. That's good stuff.

So they take out a SO. Upon arriving at Betty Daviss, Butch still asks for Tara and is told he should have been told you're way too old for her and I'm going to call the police if you don't get off my property. Instead, he she's told that she had gone with the dog none's to Egypt, OK, in the back of a pickup truck. This is great parents all around. The two then drove back to Egypt hello there, where they found Tara, 14 years old.

It's dark out nighttime. She is sitting in the hollow on the steps of the church, just hanging out my nothing going on, just sitting there waiting for somebody to come back. And that's like the central part of the area. So everybody drives by there. You got if you want to.

I am so worried by. This is just ridiculous, right? I'm so scared for her. I know. This is Tara. So Tara tells them that she's waiting for James Dagnino. That's what she's doing here. And Butch said, I know where he is. He's in the fucking woods. He's trying to avoid getting arrested by the posse that your dad hired me, took out that warrant. I feel like if you take out a warrant, you have to hire your own posse.

You can't expect the police to deal with that. That's not a taxpayer thing.

Have Agent Holer marshal or some shit like this. How do you get how do you get a warrant? You don't have the police involved. I'm the sheriff of Egypt. We don't have a police force. Yes, we do. It's me, God damn it. Look at my badge. My brother is the marshal. I said so. That's right.

I said, oh, hold on. Let me ask my dad, the judge.

Judge, Dad, can you. So this is this is wild. So he's gone. He's gone over there and Jesus fucking Christ. So he says, I'll take you there.

I'll take you to your boyfriend. Yeah. Let's do this shit here. So they drive away. James Butch Sexton is the one guy and and her all drive away is the oldest because that's the dad's cousin.

Right. It's some yeah. It's some weird.

Crazy. This whole thing is just too much a spider web of fucking of. I don't even know of that. None of it's a none. Spider will tell you what it is a Degnan Spider web. So she.

Wow. She says, I'm waiting for my boyfriend, they said, we'll take her there, they drive down up Murphy Hollow Road, which I remember from the map, is just west. It's the next holer west of Egypt over there on Windy Hill over there. And no, that's that's the other way. Egypt is in between as in between this holer, the Murphey Hollow and the Windy Mountain. Got it. That's in between there. So there you go as Murphey Hollow Road and Sexton drops them off because he's not going to drive up to the tent.

It's in the woods. So Sexton drops them off at a large rock beside the road at ten thirty five to ten forty pm somewhere in there, which is just what you want your 14 year old to be dropped off near a large rock with a 20 year old at 11 o'clock at night.

This is great. And that's your street sign. Yeah, the big rock. The big rock over there down the holler.

It's not the dress. No, it's the big rock. That big rock beside the road. Wow. It's the only damn big rock over there. Jesus. So Butch here said that he and Tara were going up the mountainside because that's where dude has a tent all the way up in the up in the hill there. So he said, we're going up the mountainside. So Sexton said, I'll call you, I'll come with you. And Butch said, no, you can't come because James told me that he only wants Tara to be there.

I'm just dropping her off and leave and and don't bring it. He said don't bring anybody else because he doesn't want anybody knowing where he is, because God, God damn Tegan Degnan got that gun warrant out for him.

And he just wants to be private with his location. Like they're going to like they're going to comb the woods for this kid, you know what I mean? So Sexton leaves and the last thing he sees is them kind of turn to go up into the holler there. And no one ever sees Tara again.

Of course not. She disappears down to the woods because of course she would, right? Oh, my God.

Like I said, if you're a parent now, I'm not saying this. It's Lucy. It's the eighties, too. So it's a different time. And it's a I think they generally thought they were safe in this area, which is obvious also just the lifestyle.

They live there. You just wander around. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's an insular town. It's an insular place. And I feel like they don't normally nobody normally gets killed, probably. So you just don't think your kid's going to get killed because everybody knows the everybody. So you know what I mean. I don't think it's bad parenting is just the parenting that went on back then in that area. The sign of the times. And it's bad parenting.

Yeah, but I mean, I don't count on that. I don't think her grandmother was like I that Tara. I hope she disappears at night. I'm going to let her go into the woods. I don't think it was like that. I think that the parents thought she they kids are fine, but clearly they should have thought more. A lot of that doesn't happen around here. Exactly. Unless that's unhappen.

Unless you look at the statistics and that fucking happens there all the time. Yeah.

Look at our show. It happens at least two hundred and ten times or place places three times the national average.

And the other thing I know you wouldn't want your your young, you know, a younger teen age, not like eighteen year younger teenage daughter wandering into the woods at night. Anyway, there's like bears and shit in the woods. It's dangerous. I don't want my kid in the woods at night for human monsters.

There are actual monsters. What about the short fat girl that rips your organs, your pancreas out fliers, everything out of your fucking. Yeah, what happened? I don't know what they did. That's bad stuff there.

So no one ever sees her.

Obviously, her her family reports are missing. And Detective Bill Schroeder of the Marion County Sheriff's Department begins investigating the disappearance of Tara on December 4th. Nineteen eighty six. So for some reason, it takes five days. Yeah. From the time she disappears to the earth, four days probably goes by the time the night came. They probably didn't do it till the next day. So it takes four days for them to start an investigation on a missing 14 year old.

That's crazy.

I don't understand what I don't know if that was, like I said, Lucy Goosey with the rules and curfews like, I don't know, Tara's probably staying at her friend's house and then, you know, she didn't come home still for two days. Let me call around and ask about her. And then nobody picked up for a day. And then the next day they were like, maybe I should call the police. I don't know if it's just real casual child rearing days.

I mean, three day weekends. I mean, people take people take those off. I mean, it's for Jesus, somebody call the cops. I mean, let's call the cops now. It's Thanksgiving.

Yeah, exactly. So they ask around. Yeah. And they find out, obviously, that she's been seen with the dad. She was with the Dagnino, they were over the house. And then also her grandmother says, well the one boy came over and asked for and I said she was already gone and that was Butch. So she's describing all these people. And so, you know, there's so far about five people that have five young men.

That were around her that night that we know of right before she disappeared. So they're going to start there. It seems like a good place to start the last people to see her alive or just anywhere.

So the officer here, the detective, Bill Schroeder, he went to the Teal residence to talk to Butch, find out if you did you see her? Where did she go? Would she go with, you know, anything? Now, while he's talking to Butch, he notices a class ring on Bush's hand, which is strange because Butch dropped out in the ninth grade. Right. What class is this from?

What H back course. Did he take that class in a class ring? You didn't get an eighth grade class? I did not get a dishwasher repair certificate ring once. When you graduate from whatever the hell that is know like I didn't at all. I don't think your roofing school gives you a class ring. Probably like I just don't see it with this guy. So the detective was which is a good catch for a detective, by the way, to catch that and go.

That's a class ring. He didn't go to high school. Even so, he got a class ring on pretty good shit so that at that point he learns that once he talks to some other people, he learns that Homer Boushey is the last person that anybody saw with Tara Wright, traced it out to where the last time anybody saw Tara Sexton was driving away as they were walking up into the woods, up, up, up the mountain, ascending the hill next to the big rock.

That that's it. So, yeah. So Detective Schroeder goes back to the trailer on the night of December 4th and he meets with Butch and he tells him, Wally, why he's there. And he says that, you know, where'd you get that ring? Why do you have that ring anyway? So Butch tells him about the ring and we'll talk about what his story is. Basically, he says he gave it to me to hold. There's a lot to see.

The only jobs here are Haldeman moving them, Jones that move and shit. And literally his it was his turn to hold shit. Yeah. He said, hold my ring because I got move shit. Now I'll lose it.

So you hold all this shit and my ring while I move the shit. But you can go walk around so kind of you'll be holding and move and move. That works. But the ring if you consider the ring shit and you're moving because you're walking around. But hold it while you're certainly hold on. Hold that shit while you're moving at it.

So he meets with him and tells him that, you know, the ring is suspicious and that's a suspicious. Well, you're holding it for your friend. That's a weird. Why would you hope that's a weird thing? Your friend can literally hold that with the zero energy by, you know, putting it on his finger.

Yeah. So he says, well, we're going to talk to you when you come down the station. And he the detective advises him of his Miranda rights. Yeah. Because at this point he's not a witness anymore. There's something that makes him even slightly a suspect to the cop. Actually, the detective does the right thing and that's exactly when he's supposed to Mirandize him, right. When he goes from who knows or a witness to even a slight bit of questioning and more of a suspect way.

So at this point, Butchie asks, Butch asks if he's under arrest and the detective says no, but it's possible he may be under arrest later. Who knows? We'll see how the day goes, basically. I mean, kind of up to you, Chief. Really? Well, it's a real early out there. We'll see what happens. He then consents to go to the station and he remarks, let me I'll go. I got nothing to worry about.

I don't mind. I don't give a fuck. I don't down there. So why does it matter that he has a ring besides the fact that he didn't finish the ninth grade?

Why? I mean, that's everything. Yeah, that that's all. Yeah, that's most of it. That's for us. The crux of was he said, look, I found it in a dry creek bed or something. Other than that, I don't know what other excuse would be for I have it, but it was my dad's I don't know my dad. So that's not even it. That's all the suspicion. I need to ask him anything I need to ask.

Yeah. Why are you wearing a class ring in your class. Right, dipshit. One else.

Awful duty. Well, yeah. Where do you who did you pry that off of. So both Betty Davis and Tim Sexton saw James Dag None's High School ring on November 29th, the night Tara disappeared. It was on Tara's hand because that's James's ring. And he gave it to Tara, by the way, he's a high school graduate making him.

How old? Yeah, eighteen or so. Who's he going out with a fucking freshman year? A fourteen year old James. Is Tony right? Yeah, James, I don't know if James is twenty, but Bush is twenty twenty. Oh, by the way, she is in eighth grade. Oh she's in eighth grade that.

How does that not as like a dude even if you if she's in junior high. Yeah. But even if it is like a guy that's like I don't know, it's just four years, it's only four years. It's not that big of a deal because I'm a teenager too.

How don't you look and go. She's in eighth grade. Nope.

That's all we heard. Yeah.

Fucking weird, disgusting, gross and weird when you're a eighteen year old to twenty year old boys shouldn't like you the second year that old. You should be like, oh, man, I can get these adult women. This is amazing, I could not get them, but I can try to talk to these adult women if I can get a twenty one year old woman to put me in her mouth. I bet she knows how to do stuff. What age?

I had no interest in any 14 year old girl. What the hell am I going to do with her? I don't want to talk to her. She's a kid. That's weird. I don't want to hang out with her. No, no. But they want to hump on her, apparently. It's disgusting. So anyway, it was on her hand that night and on the days after the disappearance, several people, including Detective Schroeder, saw that same ring on Bush's hand.

So that's a bad sign. Terrible. If the victim had jewelry and she's missing and now that jewelry is on someone else's hand, there's a lot to be inferred there. They certainly want to have a chat with Butch, serious, serious chat. So at the station here they go down there, he Butch tells the detective that Tim Sexton, who's I got my story, Tim Sexton left me and Tara in the Hollow. And the last he saw Tara was she was walking toward the interstate toward where we saw the big road.

The crash are now. I don't know why she would go there to see James and then walk toward the interstate. That doesn't make sense. And if she did, why didn't he walk? Where did he go up and see James? Did James ever see anybody? There's a lot of questions that are kind of loose ends there.

And where the fuck is James? And that's the other thing. I in a tent, it's got a warrant out on him from his daddy. So, yeah, last that's the last he saw. So at this point, they find out that he has he's got a warrant in Georgia. We'll talk about it. There's some paperwork where they can hold him. For now. They're going to hold him. Yeah. And maybe move them later. But for now, he has some hold and shit moving.

He's holding.

So that's this whole town holding it, moving it up to and including our prisoner. That's right. We hold and we move them, move here and then hold them, make sure they don't run away, then move them.

I need them to be.

So he he puts them away here.

It's a I think that's in this fire when he goes here, we here we move it and then we ship it. See you take it, you move it and then you ship it.

And I think I've never seen Mr. and Mrs. Doubtfire the whole way through well, at the beginning, because then I can't say you got any questions that he goes after. Remove it. You ship it. I can't control that. Yeah. I loved Robin. Can't do it. I can't do it.

I'm like, please stop trying. I can't take it anymore. It's too much.

I loved him when he was filthy as a stand up.

That's that's different. But like, it bothers me when he used to sell to kids and I like him when he's come as an actor. He's a great comic actor like in The Birdcage. He's the straight man I guess. But I in the comedy team. And he's fucking phenomenal. Be that great. Don't be annoying. Be that guy Nathan Lane. Go do something crazy because he's hilarious. He's great. He's the best. So anyway, once they get to the jail, Detective Schroeder advises him of his rights again, just to make sure advised them when they left in case he said anything in the car.

Now, they got out now or at the station. Totally new atmosphere again. Here's your rights. So he's really, really up on that shit. Butch tells Detective Schroeder how he and Sexton picked up Tarah and how after giving him the ring, she walked down the road. That's the last he saw. He was like, they dropped drop me off. She was sitting on their, you know, dropped us off on the big rock. And she gave me a ring and then walked toward the interstate.

I said by and I went home.

Is that the equivalent of, like, taking off your shirt and walking into the ocean? I guess? I don't know. It's like they put you on an ice block and push you away.

Remember me fondly. The very strange. Yeah, she's like, I can't take it anymore. I walked into the freeway, walked out in front of an 18 wheeler and his mother, they sat there with their arms out and her eyes closed and her head back. Take it. I don't know.

That's what he's trying to make a story. It's a ridiculous story. So he said, yeah, he did that walk down the road. Detective said that all through this, he was free to leave. They hadn't got him on the other warrant yet. But that's all through this. He was free to leave. And at the time, this was the first statement he made. That's his first story just handed me the ring and left.

Man, I don't know how the story just to ring. I got it. Now I yeah, there it is. I mean, obviously, I mean, I got it with that bag and ring since was right on my back. So we have Butch claims Otara gave him the ring. What the hell. So he so it's at that point they find out about the other warrant and they go, well we're going to hold you for a while. We might be more.

Vinnie, later, but for now, we're going to hold you and at this point, Bush gets super mad and livid and pissed off. Really?

Oh, he said he was calm, laid back in the chair, just cannot not manage to gave me the ring. And, I mean, it's cool. He's like picking his nails. He's real, like, as calm as can be. And then they say they're going to hold him and he goes ballistic, flips out, loses his mind and starts screaming, screaming at the detective at the top of his lungs. Everybody can hear him. And finally he says that that Schroeder, quote, would never find or prove anything on him.

What does that mean? You'll never find or prove anything on me. He says that says he's being dragged away. All we're doing is jail. Well, guess what? Not your world will move on to jail. We'll move you now and then we're going to hold it in there.

So he would never find or prove anything, OK? This is a strange thing to say to a detective.

Let's you say it's a proclamation you don't make is not arrested either. No, it's what you say.

If you're either an idiot and a murderer or you're like a mafiosi where it's like, look, we both know what everybody's doing, but you're never going to find or prove a fucking thing on me. That's a different that's a different game. Yeah. This guy is not in the Mafia. He's an idiot. I don't think there's a mafia out there with him, with a class ring of innocent people have never said those words, though.

You'll never find or prove anything. No, no, no innocent person has ever said no unless there someone was like, I'm going to prove you're guilty. It's like you can't prove I'm guilty because I didn't do anything right. They don't say that way. You're never going to find or prove anything on me. I'm bulletproof. I'm King Kong. You can't stop me motherfuckers. They drag them away. That's that's a guilty man. That's a guilty man.

That's a very strange, guilty man as it that is very bizarre, but certainly guilty. So then they talk to him again. During this time they're talking to him again. He starts making weird statements about. How to get rid of a human body? Well, how do you do that? And several suggested a bunch of places where the cops might look for a body like, I don't know. I mean, if I was looking for a body, there's places around there where you could hide one.

First of all, he says, wow. He said that he tells the detective that, I mean, if I was going to kill somebody, I'd feed them to pigs. That's how I get rid of them. Like Al Swearingen style on Deadwood would feed them to booze pigs. And that's that what I mean. Yeah, that's how that works, I suppose. So he's telling the cops. I mean, if she's dead, I mean, I would feed her to pigs.

I assume other people would do so. She's probably either fed to pigs. And he also said another thing you could do, maybe check on this is another idea I got. He's got full of ideas of where to stash corpses, which is a very strange thing for a 20 year old to be thinking about unless they have a podcast. He said that he was talking about, you know, you could just you dig up a grave.

And this is what this is what mob guys did sometimes. Do you dig up a grave and just put the other body on top, cover it back up. No one's going to dig that back up again. It's and it's on top of a grave. It's brilliant. You dig down to the casket, you throw your corpse on there, you cover it back up again.

That's genius. Yeah, it's. What's up, old mafia trick. Yeah.

But if you get caught, though, now you're charged with desecrating human remains too. I think it doesn't really. It certainly does. Some of you you killed Paulie, so it really doesn't matter at that point.

You dug up some of these families. Great. Yeah, I like this for dismembering Vinny and then. Oh, you know what? You did desecrate that grave. Martha Evans family is pissed at you. You mess the flowers up, they sat out and all the grass is never it hasn't grown back the same since then. So we're going to actually do a little extra for that as well.

So and you'll be you'll be billed for the song.

You'll be absolutely going to be built for that as well. So he's like the imagining of this detective. You got this assault on nothing, bruv. Not not me. He's got the victim's ring on and he's talking about I don't know. I mean, I feed them to pigs or you could just bury him in graveyards. I'm thinking, OK, how many people have you killed at this point, Sean? Have you killed more than one person? Because you seem to have a lot of ideas of what to do with bodies.

And then he started telling them, yeah, various different like places that you should search around the mountains, around the area there. Well, I mean, there's a spot over in this holler that the blah, blah, blah. And this is like a little cave thing. I mean, it's the stuff of body in there. No one will ever find it or there's a thing over here and a little niche where you could drop down this little this little gully where it'll fall down.

It's a narrow thing. No one will ever find a body in there. I mean, that's a place I would look if I were you guys. Well, after you're done checking all the pigs out and, you know, he's clearly been thinking about this a very, very long time. And if you maybe want to dig up all the graves after that, when you're done with all that check around the hollers, that's what he's saying to them.

All of the places, by the way, are pretty far out there that he's telling them about these mountains over there in this mountain, over there on that mountain, keep them occupied. And then December six, this is like two days. They keep talking to him. He keeps talking. He keeps saying dumb shit and everything like that. Yeah. This is when he tells Detectives Schroeder that on the night he disappeared, on the night that Tara disappeared, that Tara left the hut, that he's got a totally new start.

OK, Tara left the Hollow with James to get beer.

OK, OK.

Because he's apparently old enough to drink and he's with a unwalkable eighteen year old. They're going to walk to get beer.

Obviously, none of these people have transportation, so he's going to leave to get beer and that Tara and James were fighting and arguing back and forth. I don't know if she wanted to watch SpongeBob. And he was like, no, I won't. You know, I'm not a child and I don't know what was going on. And she wanted Hannah Montana. You know how it's like, oh, yeah, that's that's the thing where one person wants and month at another that you're going to have a strange relationship that's not going to line up.

Right. Because it's Hannah Montana is not really a Schlitz. This is not not going to be she wants dinosaur chicken nuggets. Yeah. She's looking for the dinosaur shaped nuggets and he wants to get himself some whiskey.

It's a strange thing. Very, very odd. She wants so many corn dogs. He wants, of course, corn dogs and cars, field lord. So, yeah, he tells her not only that they get in a fight right in front of James, right in front of. But she had to witness this. But it's at that point that James got the ring back from Zach. Give me that ring off your hand. It's not family anymore.

And then gave it to Butch.

I love you, but yeah, you guys hang out with this farm for a couple of days. Why? He wouldn't put it in his own pocket. Yeah, who knows. But he said, go ahead and hang on to this foreman. Butch was like, all right, put it right on his finger. Yeah.

So that's that that's a stupid story.

That is a it's almost as dumb as I don't know. She just handed it to me and walked up a mountain. That's handed to me, headed off for the freeway, almost, almost go run with traffic. Yeah, just I don't know where she was going. She just wanted out there. Now, ringlets started running up the right. You know, she said, I'm a car now. Jesus, she's crazy. Stand up. Thirty five.

Then again, she is a child. So, you know, now the cops know more than they're saying here. They're trying to, you know, lock him into a few dumb stories. It just looks worse. But they know some shit. On Sunday, November 30th, the day after, Butch told John Degnan that he hadn't seen Tara. And on the following Wednesday, he threatened John because he had seen John searching for Tara. So, yeah, he said, I haven't seen her.

And then I guess John was literally looking through the woods for Tara trying to find her. And Butch came up and threatened him and said, You fucking stay out of this. Leave this shit alone. Some of your goddamn business.

Like, it's my girlfriend, bro. It's his brother's girlfriend. But still his cousin's girlfriend got either one. Yeah, it's one of his kin's girlfriends, Siskin. I mean, let's face it here. Yeah, it's all the same DNA anyway, but after the marriage, she's going to be my kin. Yeah, exactly. So either way, he says that, you know, stay out of this shit and the guy's like, whoa, that's a strange reaction to searching for a missing child.

Yeah. Do you do that for everybody?

Imagine that they will hold candlelight vigils to try to disperse them.

Come on. No doubt this shit quit your whining. That's right. She got hit by a drunk driver, but it's everybody's got time to go. God damn it. Now go home. All those goddamn candles out. Y'all got work in the morning right now.

So, yeah, that's not that's not smart.

So this is weird because here's another thing. Why is the only person searching through the woods, John Degnan, is shouldn't there be where the police, the rest of the hundred and forget the eighty five year old search and I don't care where are the cops, where's the state police. If this is if they don't have the the want to get anything done in this area because they don't have their own police force, I'm sure there's like a county police that's an hour away that they can go through or write something over in Chattanooga.

They come on over the hill from Chattanooga. I don't know what happens, but somebody else, you know, the sign on the drafts warrants should be out there. Where is he? Yeah, he's a warrant drafter. He should know what to do here.

So, yeah. So he threatens him. Now, Butch also asked John if he thought if he thought he had hurt Tara. Do you think you hurt her?

And John was like, oh what the hell you're talking about. No, I didn't hurt anybody. I was like, You sure. Do you think Ed? And he was like, I would know if I hurt a 14 year old girl. No, I didn't. So that later on that week, on Thursday, the next day, Bush tells Sexton that he got the ring from Tara the night of the 29th. And the last time he saw Tara, she was leaving Egypt hollow, walking toward the interstate.

So he told that story, then told it once before to the cops and then made up a different one about the fight in the beer in the Schlitz and take this there.

So now Ronnie Nunnelee, he's another guy.

He's a 24 year old who hangs out with Butch. And he said some time after Tara was reported missing sometime in the next week, he's not sure exactly when because, you know, the Schlitz, you know, it works this time, you know, sometime around it. What is time for this time anyway? Let's think about it. What's time when there's a holler involved?

He said that Butch told him because I guess this kid was like twenty three amigos. I heard some girl disappeared. Like he was just like I heard some some kid disappeared. And so, you know, what's up with that? Like just town gossip. They don't have the Internet, so there's really nothing else to talk about. Right. So social media and things like the kid that had disappeared or something. So I asked I asked him that and Butch said that, yeah, it's this girl, Tara, and she's from here and, you know, she went out with James and gave her the whole bio and then sat and then asked this Ronnie Nunnelee if he wanted a bone from Tara.

Oh, well, that's what he said. He says he want a bone from Tara and was laughing about it like it's that explained who she was and then asked if he wanted a bone from her. I don't like that. I don't like that at all. That sounds real creepy. And who knows if he's just a weird, creepy guy, like, you know, you're trying to be morbid or trying to be some people like it, trying to be like too dark and cool, like, just to be that way, to go too far, to go too far, you know.

So it's not like a shock comic. You love Jeselnik. Love big fans. Big fans. Yeah. So he if he wants a bone from Taris, this guy was like Romona, it's getting late here. I'm going to tap in his bed rest right that time.

It's very late. I got to get Wolfboy. I got the dog's shit. I got a doctor's appointment right now. I got to get to the gynecologist. I'm going to go now. I'm mortgages late. It's definitely late. I got a I got her I have an arrest warrant myself, and I'm going to go turn myself in in another state. Thank you. I got to go now.

So after speaking with Sexton and his parents, however, Detective Schroeder informed Bush that based upon what Bush said and what Sextons said and what everybody else fucking said, they're definitely going to charge him with contributing to the delinquency of a minor, which is a misdemeanor here. And so at two a.m., they arrest him on a juvenile warrant on those charges and they hold him in the Marion County jail. That's how they got him. Now, later that morning, 9:00 a.m., he's going to be charged again because Georgia officers because, like we said, it's right there.

Inform Detective Schroeder that Butch had been charged with aggravated assault in Dade County, Georgia, recently as well. So and this isn't getting arrested here. Revokes his bond in Georgia because of him no matter what. Hold on to his ass. And if you are going to get rid of them, give to us. Just move them, but hold them and then maybe move them later. But for now, hold them. OK, but don't let them go.

So they do they request a hold, an official hold we put on the defendant. That's all holding this down. Hilarious.

So at 11:00 am, after speaking with his family and being given his rights for the fourth time, the book gives Detective Schroeder a written statement here. Now, while he's being held in jail, he makes additional statements on December 6th, fifteenth and eighteen nineteen eighty six. So all sorts of statements. None of these, though, say where the factory is and they haven't found Terry yet. So, I mean, if you're her parents, it's been a week.

Wait too long. Where's my daughter? Yeah, this is insane.

So now Detective Schroeder says that he advised Bush of his rights each time he spoke with him, except on the occasions when Bush flagged him down as he walked through the jail and initiated a general conversation about, you know, you see the game last night, bullshit. No, nothing that has to do with interrogations or whatever. So the search for terror continues on December twenty seventh. Nineteen eighty six. Oh, by the way, that's her 15th birthday.

God damn it. 15TH birthday. They searched and searched and search. Finally, they find her very badly decomposed body on a ravine alongside a creek approximately sixty five feet from the guardrail on Murphy Hollow Road. So lazy, too fucking lazy, this asshole. The body was located two hundred forty eight feet from Egypt, hollow road and thirty five hundred feet from the point where Sexton last saw Tara alive. He walked her over half mile. Walked her a little bit.

Yeah, walked her to a little little more desolate spot and then just like dumped her in a ravine, just dumped her off from the guardrail, probably, you know, dumped her down there. It's fucking horrible. Horrible. They find her on her 15th birthday. So, I mean, if you're her parents, that's it's just horrible, man. So they're going to charge Bush with first degree murder, but there's more to it than that. She is.

It's fact she's found near a church in a wooded area by two hunters near a church, near a church by two hunters. That's that's not these guys. Think about this. You work all week. Got a lot going on, the stress for the kids. And he got all this shit and and you and your buddy are going to go out hunting and even looking forward to this, if that's what you like to do when you get out there and you're like, all right, then you find a dead teenager like days over fucking ruined this one shit's over.

Never mind. Shit, this makes me not want to shoot things.

I don't know why.

Just makes me have less and less ambition to shoot anything they are they won't ever, ever kill any child ever again.

I got to.

It's just been so. At first, when they found her because of the decomposition, they said, quote, We're still trying to determine the cause of death. We haven't gotten the autopsy report yet because they had to send her to Chattanooga and they have like a state specialist come in because she was decomposed so badly, just absolutely awful. They end up finding out with cause of death. They end up finding out that she had been raped and strangled. Yeah, this poor girl.

So that's horrific. Rape, strangled and then dumped in a ravine like just 14 year old. Yeah, 14 year old was thrown over like garbage, basically. But Kering got taken first, though, to make sure to take that. So expert experts said that they indicate the body had probably been dragged into the ravine by animals because it did wasn't even that far away from the road that he probably dumped or even less. He just dumped her over the guardrail, basically, and then animals drug her off.

Wow. Further away here they are, some thirty six feet away from where she was found. They found a dark, wet stain depression where forensic anthropologists said the body had originally lain thirty six feet. So what do they say? They found her. How close was it? I can't remember. Was it 60? They found her sixty five feet from the guardrail. And they were she was dragged thirty six feet, so he didn't have it. Just barely even got her over there.

That's just lazy too asshole. Horrible. So tree limbs over the Depression indicated an attempt had been made to cover the body just through some trees on her. Like there you go. Done fuck man. Nobody care. Sick. Unbelievable. Six to eight feet away, they found her slacks and her underwear and her pants and her underwear. And then certain items were just scattered all around like a piece of jewelry here, a hair clip there. The stuff in that you would lose in a struggle and stuff like he basically not stuff you lose in a struggle like jewelry, like he basically took her shit and just threw it around, just took it like scattered it like throw that over here, toss some trees on it.

That should be good and walk away.

Unbelievable. It's disgusting. This guy is a he's a bad guy and I know it's going to get worse with this guy. Well, not the whole thing, but he's a bigger asshole. He's just such a fucking asshole. So the body was face down with the jacket, bra and blouse pulled over her head in a matter inconsistent with animal activity. So that is what he did, that he did that and her hair was stuck to the fingers of her left hand with coagulated blood.

And, you know, yeah, this is horrible, man.

Autopsy by Dr. Frank King of Marion County, medical examiner did an examination on the bones of the throat, particularly particularly the hyoid bone, which we've talked about a lot. And the doctor indicated that the victim suffered trauma to the neck at the time of death, indicating strangulation, testified the death had been neck trauma consistent with one of the following manual strangulation, ligature strangulation, a blow to the neck or a cut to the neck. That was not deep enough to reach underlying bones, just that one.

So more than likely strangled her with maybe her pants or maybe his who knows his hands.

I mean, who the hell knows what he did?

So from the condition of the body, they could make no make no conclusion on a lot of things because of that. Like, first, they couldn't tell if she if there was any sexual intercourse involved. So they brought in a serial rapist who found sperm consistent with human sperm taken from the taken from her underpants. So they got that her underwear had it in there.

So that's what they got there. So. This is obviously absolutely the worst thing that could happen, horrific to get, this is a teenage girl being just absolutely thrown away like garbage.

Basically, this is a tragedy. Disgusting.

So they once they find the body now they got to go. Once they find Tara now, they're going to go talk to Butch again, see what he says about that, obviously. Let's tell him what I mean. He doesn't know if they're ever going to find her in his mind is like I don't know, by the way, all those sites he told them about.

We're all miles away from this. You're nowhere near nowhere near where she was. He was like, I would check over on that mountain. I don't know. I mean, I'm not going away from her. So she disappeared.

Yeah. Which is it's really ballsy. A lot of times the murderers will try to that's an old trick, try to insinuate themselves into the investigation to push it away from them. But it's rare that they're already a suspect in jail and they're trying to do that. That's a it's just a weird it's weird. I mean, I get it, but it's usually like it's so obvious. Then why would you do it? Because it just makes you look more guilty directing police traffic.

Yeah.

So what does Bush think about this whole thing? Why don't want to want to want to punch bullets right in the fucking face right out of this chair. Yeah, well, when Detective Schroeder informed Bush that the body had been discovered and photographed and so, you know, we have proof of it and, you know, they tried a lot of times and they'll try to show you the photographs like this is what she is, because you want to see the reaction to it if they're into it and you want to see if they're like, I want to see what I did, my handiwork, or if they're whatever the case may be, whatever body language they exert.

Let's see it. Let's see what you got. Yeah, it's it's that if you show someone a picture of something horrible like that, you're going to get some reactions from them. Well, when he's told the body was found and photographed, you know, what Butch said to him, leaned back in his chair and he said, good, give me some for my scrapbook. Wowza.

So how the fuck does this detective and I'm not for any kind of police brutality, but at that point, how do you not calmly get up and fucking knock him out of his chair with one punch to his ear and just absolutely rained blows upon him until you physically can't anymore?

He asked for a wallet, you know what I'm saying? Do you get 16 wallets? I'll of me some for my scrapbook. I don't understand how you wouldn't do it and then just go. I don't even remember doing that. I don't remember turning his brains to putting. But I don't know. I must have been incensed. I, I can't place it. He must have said something I'm not sure he's saying. I hit him. I hit him.

Good. Give me some for my.

Wow. Doesn't sound like me. It's not like me. Right. Ask anybody. I'm a nice guy. I'm pretty well in control.

I think so. So I want to, I want to kick the shit out of him right now. I really do. So that gets him charged with murder and hopefully the shit kicked from him as well. I really hope that the cops beat the shit out of him or somebody beat the shit out of him. I hope he went in there. I hope when they put him away, he went from cell to cell go. No, he's in for.

Yeah, yeah. He is real proud of it. Do you know? I really hope so. This is the type of asshole that deserves that scrapbook or like a scrapbook. He's a good cop. He was working on this fucking guy. She has a scrapbook.

Are you guys now here? That scrapbook.

So when he's being booked for the murder charge, he asked the detective how strong he thinks his case is. Yeah, he's a cocky little bastard. I don't like him. He says how strong I think your case is, Detective. He's all cocky. And the detective said, well, I think it's pretty goddamn strong here. You've got a lot of shit it up and everything. And he said that quote. He said that he had a quote.

This is Butch, by the way, a quote, ace in the hole. And that, quote, No one else is in it with me. That's what he said. No, no. With that, I got an ace in the hole and no one else is in it with me. I think he thinks he's an ace in a hole and no one else is in the hole of them. I don't think he knows. How does this raises work.

He doesn't. You don't think he knows that that means it's a trick. And yeah, I don't think he thinks. I don't think he understands what he's saying. I don't think I think he thinks an ace is good. Yeah. And that's him. And he's in a hole. I've heard the phrase ace in the hole.

Heard that once you're looking at him right here brother big time ace in the hole and no one else is in it with in it with me, whatever that fucking means. Stitch none is not gonna work too.

And I've been telling you that for years.

So later Butch called Schroder to his cell, calls a detective, and he asks him about the elements of the degrees of murder and whether it was first degree murder if you killed the person by accident. I was like, let me ask you a question here. Yeah, this murder is stuff I hear the first and second. What if it was an accident? That's still Firster is first better than fourth, the third or what do you want as a person?

Is it like the way burns go backwards? Is it backwards?

I mean, and and also which one is the one where it's accidental?

That's what I said. Which one is that. One is that's the one we all need to talk about now. So December twenty seventh, he's charged with first degree murder to answer his question, and council was appointed for him. Statements are given and he is asked questions about all this shit. Now, while he's in jail, several inmates from the jail for marrying in Franklin County jails testified later on that Bush either admitted to killing or made very incriminating statements to them.

He's just going around the jail telling everybody what he did. He's bragging about it, which is amazing. And, you know, it's like a small town jail because if you were in like let's say you were in you were in Maricopa County jail, you would not go around bragging that you raped and murdered a four year old girl because you would be dead in like three hours. You would be fucking absolutely dead. And any person I can think of that I've read about or know about dead Small-Town ones.

So probably if you're in prison, they're in jail somewhere. They're probably in awe of this guy. Like, what a weirdo, maybe. But there might be three or four guys there whose uncle or cousin works here. So that's the other thing.

Yeah, I'll. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. That's true. And also, if you have a small jail, there's not a lot of people in it.

There's not really enough to get groups that will go after them either. You won't be like, you know, because here usually prisoner on prisoner they it'll be a gang or I want to, you know, somebody to get stomped and whatever. So they said that first is Pandora. Edwards is going to open up the whole box here.

All right. Pandora, Edwards baby, Pandora. That's a that's a man that's a man of Pandora.

Edwards in the eighties there, his parents thought he was clever, they were clever, and they were like Pandora because he's a he's a sea of mysteries.

The box is very deep.

That boy, he's a deep boy band or Pandora AdWords. That's the thing.

I remember when I put that in here, I was like, is that real? I like to, like, check back. I'm like Pandora Edwards.

Yeah, but then I know why he's in jail. He's in jail for killing whoever named him Pandora. I killed my mother.

What's your name? Pandora. All right. I get it. I get it. Yeah. So.

Oh no, Pandora. Pandora is a woman. Oh, OK. That's totally messed up. And she's a prisoner with Pandora. This is how small this is. She was in a cell next to him. We don't have a men's and women's. We just have the coed jail. OK, I've never heard of coed jail.

Well, we can't afford to buy to James either this or that. You can either arrest them both or we only arrest one.

That's what I mean. That's all we got. We only got one bathroom. So it's an even bigger problem here.

What we had to put a lock on the door. It's a whole thing. Now, put a unisex sign out the goddamn law. It just comes down on Pandora. So Pandora is in the cell next to his I just picture this is like a sheriff's office. It's like a big cage in the middle with like a dividing cage, you know what I mean? Just drive is like old school.

She was the apple of her mom's eye at one point and now she's in jail as Pandora. And ah, yeah, now she's in jail next to him. She is. She said that Butch told her about, quote, some fourteen year old that he raped, beat up, cut and buried. Wow. Jesus Christ. And he said this occurred at night and he was unable to sleep because he kept seeing the victim. He told her that he was like, oh, man, I can't sleep well.

I mean, this girl, I'm not raped her, cut her up and buried her. I just megamix. It's weird.

Yeah, it's weird. Just bizarre. And I feel guilty. Every time I close my eyes, I see this girl I raped, murdered and cut up.

Right now, Edwards's cellmate is is a man.

What is what is this. Addie Mae. Tate Wilkerson. What is going on. It's got to be a woman, Eddie, Eddie, maybe Eddie like Whoopi Goldberg.

And then we had the support of the basketball of it has to be has to be alone. They don't they cannot put a man or woman no cell together.

And they unless it's just that it's that we can't afford a menza. Don't be fucking in there. Now you're here, you're all human. So we're going to treat you as such now. No rape and they just walk away. We're going to trust the honor system on a sexual assault now.

Hey, criminal man, we have another criminal who happens to be what y'all lock down.

Fuck, I don't fucking know.

All right then walks away.

You guys that don't like following the rules. Here's a new rule. Nobody fucks.

Fucks are now. God damn it. Get in there. Eddie may come on anyway. So anyway, Tate Wilkerson.

Right. Sorry I can't help. I said no. Right. That was my I put us on the goddamn tagine. What are you talking about. My fault, this is a mess on our system. Sexual assault on our system, it's a trusting town. I mean, the difference in and it's funnier with a finger pointing to a criminal place to go and pay honor system on the sexual assault system.

Seriously, come on.

You put a dollar in a box looking like you took a Snickers from the office while you like what the fuck is going on? And you fucked her. You got to put a corner and just put a corner in the right. We had a pizza party last month.

They were hoping, hoping that it's not going to be that crazy. Pretty much financed by John Arby's maybe or something.

But Jesus Christ, guys, a whole pizza party. That's just too much.

I said, no, John, you're commissaire is awfully low. You better not try to fuck her. You can't afford it. Said he may take. Wilkerson says that Butch told her that he killed and buried the girl because she was his girlfriend and she was seeing another man.

Oh, now that's not true.

It was. He was she was James Dagga bagman Grigoryan. So I don't know if she's saying that that was on the side and he was jealous of James or I don't know what it is or if that was just the deal. But yeah, she was seeing another man, another inmate. Charlie, all good. I don't know. Charlie and I could be anything. Now we have somebody just named fucking Jim, who I'm pretty sure is a guy.

Can we have the male? I just I'm not even whatever don't don't hit me with the whichever gender. I don't give a shit. I'm just I need to know if they're sharing if they're doing inter gender jail cells, I need to know what's happening. That's unbelievable. That that's true. Fucking wild. So, Charlie, all good. No, he this is a fucking he testified here. Eddie May is a goddamn.

This is Eddie Mays a man. Pandoras got to be a guy.

No. So he was it says she. Court documents Pandora. Edwards testified that while she was in a cell next to OK, OK, next. Yeah. Edwards cell mate Addie Mae Wilkerson testified the defendant said he had buried and killed the girl because she was his girlfriend. She was seeing another man. So there is no no indicator there. Inmate Charlie all good testified that he overheard. OK, so Eddie Mays, probably a woman. Charlie, is probably in the mail side with him.

OK, I was trying to figure out where people are, but they're all locked up together. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, like who's in whose cell is. What I was getting at was hearing something. So if Charlie is a woman, she's probably not in his cell is what I'm thinking. Where Charlie's a man, Charlie might be in Bush's cell. Right. So Charlie said that he overheard Butch tell another inmate that he committed the crime, but that they didn't have any witnesses and he was going to walk, OK, he's going to be scot free.

He thinks that's out or he thinks nobody. Yeah, they found the body. It was no body, no crime. How they got the body, but no witness, no crime, nobody saw.

I can't get in trouble. It's all good. Even though my sperms there. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's not a good thing. Bad thing for him. Now James Graham is another guy here testified that Butch told him that a girl was missing and that he would be charged with the murder if she had been killed like she's missing. And if they come up, she come up dead. They're going to blame me. I know it. She better come up alive.

That's the way he was doing. Now, Butch said also that the cops had not found anything yet and that they probably would never find her.

OK, because I'm good. Yeah. He also admitted the killing to Steven Morgan.

How many people did he tell? He killed somebody, too. This is like this isn't just a cellmate who he, like, talked to maybe in the middle of the night and they're having a vulnerable conversation. This is like everybody he talks guy in the next cell, some lady. This one, that one.

Evidentally they start conversations with what are you in for? Yeah. Yeah, everybody in line for food. But he's honest about it. While watching televised news reports of the search for Tara with with Butch, apparently the Steven Morgan and another inmate, George Caldwell, heard Bush say, quote, You're a long ways away from finding that body and then laughing and then making other similar comments. I think they're going to find her over there. They're out of their minds.

Well, that's good. Wasting their time over there. Hopefully the wasted time over there. Now, next time, like a wild, casual, wow, dude, casual admittance of child murder. Like it's nothing to anyone who will listen.

They probably he talks so much, they probably thought he was full of shit. That's all I can think he talks so much that it's beyond the point of even just he's an idiot. They probably think this guy didn't fucking kill anybody. He's probably in here for, you know, probably had a bag of coke in his pocket or something. This guy's an asshole. I. Bet you that's what people thought got to you wouldn't think that he is that serious, so he then told, by the way, at that point, while they were watching TV, he said, you're a long ways away from the body.

He turned to George Caldwell and said bodies about three hundred feet from the road and they never going to find it. By the way, the body they found was two hundred forty eight feet from Egypt, hollow road, two hundred forty two hundred forty eight feet. And he he's pretty close. And with the animal dragging, who knows, he could have been right on the money if you got a tape out there or what. So the most damaging, though, was also Ernest Morrison, another guy who was another capital murder defendant from Georgia.

He temporarily shelved, shared a cell with Butch and also Earl David Crawford. So they got a three man murderer cell, right.

That's a that's a that's a deadly one.

Put all the murderers in together, save it, save some money on trial. Keep them away from Eddie. Yeah. Keep him alive, please. Everybody keep them away from Pandora. Don't let them near Pandora's box, please.

So they they shared a cell with him. Morrison said that he and Butch talked about the murders for which each of them were charged in know murder can talk to another murder.

So he told Butch told Morrison that he had met the girl close to a church and had asked her to go somewhere with him. He said that he was told that the two had ridden with a third person so far down the road just way down there, which is exactly what happened when I guess Butch asked to be let out. He told the driver to go on and after Butch and Tara walked up the hill, Butch made her made her give him a blowjob.

He said, so that's what he did. Then he said he forced her to. Then they walked through the woods. He dragged her into the woods, made her walk into the woods, and he he forcefully removed her pants and had sex with her and raped her. And at that time, he said that she was pleading with him not to hurt her. So obviously after that, he's got to her. He's clearly made threats while this is happening.

That's what I mean. And he's telling her to shut up probably and all this awful shit. He said he grabbed her by the hair at that point and told her, well, you know, it's your time. I can't stand no more having this here. That's what he told her. And then he walked her down to the creek where he then forced her to kneel down and again do that and then pushed her to the ground and forced her head into the creek and drowned her, was what he said, and then strangled her for good measure, just to make sure they gave her some chokin.

But he said he dragged her by the hair down and drowned her in a creek. Holy hell, this is fucking disgusting.

That's the most horrible description of a murder that I've ever heard.

It's horrible. Yeah, it's it's disturbing. He was telling this to another person, bragging rights three times, essentially. Yeah. And then killed her. I was like, I can't take this. This is getting boring. I can't no more stand the thought of you out here.

He said he then took her ring and then dragged her up the hill, laid her body in the brush and covered her up. And he said they said he said that you barrier and he said, I don't care if she was buried. I just put some shit on top of her and went away. Disgusting. You are a piece of shit. Yeah.

I got I want that somebody to punch him out of his chair so bad. Jesus Christ is. How big is he. I don't think very I don't know. I would like to fly to Georgia. I was going to say I see where the fuck is.

I think I'd like to give it a shot either way. He's older now. What is he? Twenty. So twenty in the eighties. So that's almost 60 now. He's in his mid 50s. I think it's a fair fight. I'll take a shot at it. Let's go. Yeah, I'll take a good shot at it. Yeah, I think so.

It's a fair fight. Lee's legal eagle. Let's give it a run. It'll be like at the gas station. I want to meet him for me. I want to beat the shit out of that man. I almost beat the shit out of a person for much less than that the other day as well. Then might as well. Yeah. A this old man almost got it wasn't Aldy was like sixty. He thought he was spry age.

He thought he was spry. Let's give it a try to talk some shit. And I told him that he was going to be collecting his dentures off the fucking ground if he didn't take a step back. And that shocked him. I don't think he expected that line to come out. And I told him an old fart and told him to get back to his fucking car and put a mask on. You old fart, grow the fuck up. Yeah, asshole.

The mature told me a kid. Yeah. Listen, kid, I said, kid, soon I said, I'll fucking collect your dentures in a second. So anyway they that put a mask on. I'm like, you know how many fucking I wanted to yell, you know how many fucking live shows I canceled this year. Do you know how many fucking. Yeah, I've just been postponed for fucking time. Yeah. I'll kill you you motherfucker. But I didn't say that.

I took it easy.

So many gripes about it, man. I know it's I know I just want to go on the road. I just want to perform. I just want to fuck and I want to do shows. I want to go out and do shows. I want to have make a fucking living doing shows like a goddamn comedian. God damn real. It's real. I don't want people to die. I don't want stuff to go on. Yeah. I meant selfishly.

I just want to do that. You're fucking mask on.

Yeah, it's easy. It's really easy. I don't care what you believe. Yeah, they suck. Yeah. It's hot in there. Yeah it's annoying. Yes. Oh that is true. In those classes and even in the summertime make the fucking glasses flag up 115 degrees out so I don't get to see out of my fucking glass. I'll just take them off and drive. Jimmy who cares. You'll be fine. Don't wear. But you like a man you shouldn't.

It'll be more comfortable to just take your glasses off and drive. Sure. It's unsafe. Yeah. Without show, you're putting other people in danger. But I mean, you know what? That's you're right. So now the defense at trial that they present is the testimony of his grandmother and of Shirley and Daryl Williams, who also lived in the grandmother's trailer. So they have four goddamn people crammed into a trailer of which, you know, who knows what to varying degrees of relation they are, Sean.

So they said that on the night of November 29th, Tara Stowe had come to the trailer and left. When she learned that Butch wasn't there, apparently, she said Tara stopped by. Apparently, they went to member. They went to look for watching, but she went to look for her. They crossed paths. So you think they would have hammered that out on the phone? Well, I'll come there. No, I'll come there. All right.

And they just hung up and both did it. I don't know what happened.

I'll come. Yeah, I said I'll come there. I'll see you then. I'll see you there. All right. I'm awake. I'm awake now. Say I'm getting in the car. Yeah. All right. I'll be at the holler. All right. So Butch then himself had come home later, sometime between eleven and eleven thirty is by their testimony and he had remained there the rest of the night. They said he came home eleven, eleven thirty.

That was that. Daryl Williams testified that he had seen James Deagon that is hiding in the tent guy because he's got a warrant out quote in the hollow there on November 29th. He also seen Degnan. He's seen, he's seen him. He's seen Degnan riding in his father's car, quote, sort of like he was trying to avoid being seen. I don't know how you drive a car like you're trying to avoid being it was his head not visible, pretending to go through the window.

I looked over and saw his hand on the wheel, but his head was ducked below the dashboard. So I'm not sure he was trying to look inconspicuous. Was he driving, like, not on the road? What was he doing that could make it look like he's trying to avoid being seen? I don't know how that's possible. I've never been driving like I don't want him to see me. He was in a car. He was driving a car that had camouflage.

So he was trying not to be seen.

I assume he was trying to blend into the surroundings. He was wearing a real tree camo hat. So he blended right in. I couldn't see him at all. He was like a Viet Cong boy. I couldn't see not try not to be seen, he said during the time of the search and later after the body had been found that he was cleaning trash and the clothes out of his car at his grandmother's house. So that's somebody putting it on.

James Dogbone there. I saw him cleaning up after a murder. So the state's examination of Pandora Edwards first question is, why are you in a jail? That's yeah. Why are you in a cell next to him? She's like, I don't know what jail. You're right. I'll ask the sheriff, but I'm very curious. So he said during the attorney general unsuccessfully tried to elicit testimony that Butch had said that basically they get Pandora Edwards on the stand and the attorney general yells at this person that didn't he call her a whore?

Didn't he tell you she deserved it?

And he was Pandora like, I didn't hear that. No. And they're like, she called her he called her a whore. Right. And she's like, I don't know. And like, there was like ten objections. And he kept saying, like, she's actually mocking me. He said she deserved it. D She's like, I really don't know. He never said that to me. I mean, there's 20 other people he admitted to murder.

Maybe get them up here. Is that I don't know. But he's the Pandor. Edwards says that I didn't hear that. So Edwards persisted in saying that Butch had said nothing good or bad about her. She didn't say she was cool. He didn't say she was a piece of shit. He just said matter of factly, this is what I did talk. Wow, that's it. Did all this shit and. Oh, well, I don't care.

So he objects to this line of questioning, obviously. Well, not him. He doesn't have a law degree. He he doesn't have a high school.

He objects to this whole fucking charade of a trial. He's so dumb. If you see a class ring on him, you think it's suspicious. That's how dumb he is. You can for five minutes and you go, where the fuck do you get that ring? Why do you have a high school? I don't know anything about your past, but I'm pretty sure you didn't graduate from anything. You said you've seen something today. Yeah, I seen it.

What did you graduate, Mr. Loring, is that from right? I don't think so. I don't think they give degrees for that.

Just a mood ring. Is that what that is? That's a pretend. He just bought it at a flea market for like 30 cents. Yeah. With some ladies dead husbands or some shit just unloading it because she hated him.

I haven't seen that on my husband in 30 years. You were. You're such a handsome young man. He died 30 years ago. You're such a handsome young man. Yeah, I like that. So, yeah, this is a disaster. This this whole thing. So there are yelling at her, yelling at Pandora. He did call her a whore. No he didn't. And blah, blah, blah objected to all this. They have and they send the jury out of the room to have a meeting about the whole thing and whether his his counsel's being abusive.

And, you know, whether it's a fair line of questioning the trial court sustain the objection and gave the instructions to the effect of the prosecutor's questions had been improper and strike from the jury. OK, so the jury is not allowed to consider whether he called her a whore or said she deserved it or any other negative thing.

So another prisoner comes, steps forward here. They have multiple prisoners testify.

They have James Lewis, cellmate of inmate Steven Morgan and James Graham. He testifies that he heard Morgan and Graham planning to make up testimony against Bush in order to get probation. So they are saying, you know, they're trying to make something up the story to testify. Earle, David Crawford, who is Morrison's cellmate, he testified that Morrison and Butch did not get along and that he never heard any conversation between them in which Butch told Morrison about the murder because they didn't talk about anything.

He said it wasn't that he was avoiding that. They just didn't like each other, didn't talk. So that's good. At least if you don't like your cellmate, you don't tell him about all your crimes. Probably so. Wow, that's crazy. So they bring up a couple. The defenses like, see, this is this is how bad it is for him. The defense is only defense is to bring up prisoners that he didn't tell about the murder and just go see he didn't tell him about the murder.

Like, imagine that's your defense on something that good. Oh, I didn't tell, you know, three hundred million other people in the country about the murder. Let's bring them all up and they can all tell me. So one person says, I told them about the murder and three hundred million say I didn't. Well, then, I mean, who's right? Right. That's the strategy. Just bring up the entire prison. He told less people than not.

Right. So let's just bring all the people he didn't tell and that'll be our defense that those other ones are lying.

So, yeah, now Butch ends up having to testify. He's got to testify. You got no choice. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of people saying he's a piece of shit and, you know, prison inmate saying that he said he killed this girl. So he's got to get up and use his own words. They're so Butch testifies. His story is now, of course, he's got a new story because he's on the stand. And this is a story he's got over with a lawyer right like this.

My whole legal water is the best one were for the cross-examination. Yes. This is the this is as good as it's going to get. This is the one with the least amount of questions. He's here we go. He has had two tries to tie up loose ends because he's had time to sit in jail and wait for this. And then he's had time with a lawyer to come up with. What's he going to say? Because I assume he's not just like, you know, I'm going to testify today.

I got this. I assume your lawyer's like, OK, do this. Don't say that. Right. Say this. If they ask you this, say that. So he testifies that he had been with James none at par parolees, which is a local hangout in Egypt. Hello, on the 29th, contradicting the hiding in the woods from the warrant for whipping a boy.

I don't know what's going on, but yeah. So that's that's the first time we've heard of James Dagg. None anywhere but a tent in the woods. Absolutely not. So he says though, he was at a local I don't even know what that is, a hangout. I don't know if it sounds like it's like a gas station where they have an arcade game in the back of and the kids hang out and drink Boones Farm.

Yeah, it's not I mean, it's a it's a place of business, right? Yeah. I just don't know what kind. He said both he and James had talked to Tara on the telephone by that time is what Butch says. And he says that that later, Tara are later. Butch and Tim Sexton went to the Betty Davis residence to ask for Tara, which that actually did happen because there's witnesses to that.

They later went to Egypt. Hello. Or they saw Tara sitting on the steps of a church. He said the three of them drove up into the hollow together, drove up in the hollow and stopped and got out of the car. Bush said after that, Tim left because he he said he did. And he said, Tim didn't ask me to come. He said, I just Tim just said he had to go when he left. I didn't tell Tim he couldn't come into the Hollow with us.

So then he said pretty. Much right after Tim left, James popped up. He emerged from his tent up in the woods and came down. Now it's at that point that James and Tara began to argue not over beer, as previously said, but because James, his mother, wanted him to get his ring back from Tara because she paid the 70 dollars or whatever the fuck it cost for a class ring.

He paid seventy to fifty and she want it back now and he gave it to her. So mom's mad. So they argued about it. And Tara James ended up having to grab her wrist and wrestle the ring off of Tara's hand and pull it off like, you know, she was screaming and yelling and he just held her arm and so goddamn fucking bitch and took her ring off. And then at that point, I gave it to Butch. And so hang on to this for a couple of days because, you know, who knows with this one, she's going to steal it.

I don't knows.

That's a story after that wild event. And he was like, whoa, weird. He said the last time that he saw Tara and James Degnan, they were arguing as they, quote, left out back towards the Hollow, left out, back toward the holler. So after that, I just turned around, walked away in the end the direction of the interstate. And he says after that I went home literally. What he said, I don't know.

I was there just long enough to see him pop up, have an argument that turned physical, and then just walk back into the woods near where she was found. And I just went, wow, weird night with, you know, jewelry from a murder victim on. And I leave. That's that's a story. They had a weird argument that's never been had in the history of life. And then I just walked away and then I walked away and they went in and obviously he raped and killed herself clean and done, I guess.

Right. So I'll be going home now. Yeah. I just want to undo these shackles. This is really uncomfortable.

I'm going to get going now. Know holler at him. Thanks guys. Just I mean, now that I've explained it, it's cool, right. It's totally cool. You get it. So in the rebuttal here, the state presented the testimony of John Degnan and Tim Sexton and that Daryl Williams had told them. Everybody's telling everybody. A lot of there's a lot of hearsay going on here talking. The state said that John Bagnall and Tim Sexton said that Daryl Williams had told them that Butch had not come home until six o'clock in the morning on November 29th, not at 11:00 as he got his grandmother to testify.

So your grandmother will say anything for you? My grandmother would say sure. Anything for me to get.

Yeah, she would even care if I did it or not.

So what time did he get home? Multiple time to tell you. Yeah, that's the time. That's right.

Yeah. She's an old Ginetta, too. You're not getting a fucking word at are not a word. She's a she's an old timer.

She'll ask questions to answer questions. She'll know what time to get home she'll like.

Let me tell you, I don't know what he say. My Jimmy doesn't lie. That's what she would say about me.

My Jimmy doesn't like whatever you say. That's what you you and he won't lie. I think he's a good boy asking questions, then saying that shit. Yeah, that's what it is. That's what she would do. Tell my life. She would know. What I want to ask you is my why do you ask me this for why do you ask me why you leave my grandson alone?

And she'd say, well, you want me? You ask me questions if you want. That's she try to put herself. Yeah. I mean, you could ask me questions and I tell you, no, I tell you to go to hell like I like the priest I tell to go fuck himself in 1972.

So Jan Gifford, a friend of James Dagg, Nunn's mother, testify. These Dagens man, he's a lot of them. Dagg, Nunn, sons of bitches. James Dagens, Mother's friend, testified that James Degnan had been at her house in Trenton, Georgia, from seven pm November 29th until two p.m. the next day. He wasn't even in the fucking woods in a tent.

Oh, Butch just lured her there under the pretext that. Oh, yeah, no, I talked to James. He's in a tent up in the woods. I'll take you to him and then just took her out there and raped her and killed in the woods. He was never even there. He just literally used that as a lie to set this poor girl up. He's in the woods. His dad's got a warrant out for him. Yeah, he's got worn out on it, which might be true, but he wasn't hiding in the woods over it.

This is like that's a sociopath. This is that's wild, man. That is some serial killer shit right there. This guy is if he got away with this. Oh, there'll be so many more. He would have killed so many.

Who knows there might be. Oh, if he did that, this can't be the first time he thought of doing know this.

I'm not thinking and thought to barrier and everything else. He doesn't seem like a real organized cat. So anyway. Yeah, she said that now Giffords testimony is that that as well as other several other women. This is clarified, James Degnan did not testify at trial because at the time of the trial, he was hospitalized in a burn ward in Augusta, Georgia. He was horribly burned somehow. I can't I could not find how he got burned if his dad finally had enough of him or if the one he helped got his revenge or if he had a friend with an aluminum ladder.

Yeah, it's OK. Who knows? There might be a whole festival about this that someday maybe this is what it's about. James Degnan.

So who knows in this town, you know, who the fuck knows if he got burned? I know someone who just let him on fire while he's in the tent, for all we know. I don't know. This is crazy. So Detective Schroeder also testified that he had never asked or directed any inmates, because that's one of the things that the one of the things that James R. that Bush's lawyer will say and even on appeal, is that these inmates were acting as agents of the state, that not only were they acting as agents of the state, but that the detectives put the inmates up to getting information out and basically said, hey, you go in there, get me some information and I'll help you out.

That's what they're that's what they're claiming. So they hired these guys.

They're saying they're claiming that all these guys were in there on purpose, being told to go get information. And that makes them agents of the state, which makes them not legally allowed to do this, because at that point they have to be Mirandized because blah, blah, blah. You know how all that works. So they say he said I that's bullshit. The detective said I never did that. He said that the other prisoners at the jail would simply tell him about Bush's statements because people will come up to me and go, hey, that guy said he raped and killed a 14 year old.

I don't know if that's important or not, but he said he dumped her by the road. He had a whole lot of shit. He was talking about it. It was a lot. It's not going to ring. I mean, we might want to talk to him probably.

I don't know what you guys got him held for, but if it's not rape and murder, you may be able to get that on him.

You might want to check on a rape and murder that happened because I feel like he did some raping and murdering. And why do I feel? Because he said it.

He told me a lot. It was real detail, too. He said that he said that the only other witness at the suppression hearing before about this information was the defendant's grandmother, who testified that the night he was picked up at the trailer about that night, that was it. And the assistant D.A. who testified about the circumstances of a statement that wasn't used at trial. So who cares? So anyway, the verdict comes in. The jury went away two hours of deliberation, which is basically enough time to fill out the forms.

And I went back. It's it's a fascinating question. Just you. Yep, yep. I right. Right, right. There are two hours of deliberation. He is guilty of first degree murder. Sure. He's going here. Sentencing comes up and death penalty on the table here. Electric chair. Yeah, crank it up. You can hear, hear buzzing from here.

His asshole out with a shop vac. This guy. This guy. I don't care what the fuck do they do? This guy, like I said, I want him to be turned into a fucking puddle in the interrogation room before this even happened. So seriously, I don't even give a shit here. Sentencing the jury returns. It's aggravating circumstance as the following. The murder was especially heinous and atrocious and that it involved depravity of mind while the defendant was engaged in committing rape.

So totally horrible and raping at the same time. So we're going to take that as a bad fucking one.

Really terrible way to dispatch someone and raped and raped and a child, which makes right way worse that this is a child we're talking about here. So, you know, they they make like a fourteen.

A lot of these cases they hate when they do that, it's like a fourteen, fifteen year old girl and they make it out like, you know, like an adult.

They're like, well, yeah, like, like they don't. I get that. They're just saying she's fourteen, they raped her but like there's more they raped a child. That's not like that's not a that's not really just a regular thing.

That's, this is it's way extra, you know, and they don't act like that's a child. And so now they find the mitigating circumstances of he's a dipshit and that's about it. So they come in. You, sir, may fuck off death in the electric chair.

Yes. So I actually root for this. Yeah, very rare. Really hard. Rarely, rarely do we say, yay, death in the electric chair. But this guy. Yeah, I swear to Christ, give me some lighter fluid here and a BIC and we don't even need the Electra's. I'll just put him up like a more protesters used to do to themselves. Buddhist monks. Yeah, I'll make him a Buddhist monk. Emily, I don't give a shit.

I'm not dealing with this guy. Fuck this guy. So he was sentenced twenty years old and sentenced to die here for rape and murder. He is. Yeah, he. Feels sure. In 1990, he says that the first issue of the trial court was it aired an overruling his motion to suppress the statements. This is the big thing. All the statements made to Detective Schroeder to follow up from fellow inmates while he was in custody at the trial here, waiting for trial should all be out.

Let's be honest here. You can't do so.

I tell people I killed a person. You can't let them tell you that. That's ridiculous. Wasn't there? I didn't tell you. I'm the guy. You listen to me. It's my murder. The fuck. So he says that he argues the statement should be suppressed because they were the legal the result of illegal arrest and were made in violation of his rights under the fourth, fifth and Sixth Amendments, the fourth, the Sixth Amendment and the intergalactic code of fucking whatever.

And the you know, he violated the Kung Fu Panda Treaty of 2008 eight as well.

What the hell is going on with the world wildlife small squirrel? Yeah, this is ridiculous. The substance of the argument is that the statement should be not admitted because he was held for almost three weeks under the pretense of two other outstanding warrants. So he's saying he was being held illegally. Therefore, he should have never been in jail to be able to make those statements.

So boop, boop, boop, back it up a couple and the statements are out because he said that they held him on that on these two warrants. But the only reason they were pressed on these warrants and held them on these warrants was because they wanted to hold him because of the murder. He's saying it was for the murder. I would have never been in jail. They wouldn't have picked me up.

So, you know, even though I killed her, it's really a strange argument, isn't it?

It goes backwards and then hits a wall and then side steps to go around the wall. But without looking at it, it's a very strange argument.

It's the world. It's a democracy. Get it? So I will talk about, God damn it, whether they said the proof is clear that he voluntarily waived his Fifth Amendment rights. So they said that's bullshit there. Don't worry about that one. Since he was only under investigation and no adversarial proceedings have begun, the Sixth Amendment right to counsel is also not violated. And since the case was only under investigate. Oh, I'm sorry. And also the written statement given on the morning of December 5th, why he was in custody was once more given his Miranda rights and waived them.

Adversary proceedings had still not been initiated. So yeah, they're saying he's full of shit here. He complains he was interrogated by his fellow prisoners at the insistence of police officers. There's no proof at the hearing that the inmates are acting as agents of the state or that the state deliberately induced, enticed or prompted these communications as to require their suppression. So they said it sucks for him, but shit, it's legal.

He's legal to it's the serial rapist or psychologist here, psychologist, he said they said the defendant here, Butch, says that the trial court erred in failing to exclude the testimony of the state's neurologists. All these people with evidence we can't have that. It's just evidence. The prosecutor said stuff and then I testify. And then you go to the jury. It should be this is ridiculous. This is none of his business, really. This guy who what does he care?

He said that he contends her testimony, that's spermatozoa, spermatozoa, spermatozoa, spermatozoa. Why can't I say that word today? It's gross. Two hours of sleep consistent with humans were found on a sample from the victim's underwear that was irrelevant to the charge of first degree murder, absent the absent the an indictment for first degree murder in the perpetration of rape. So he says you didn't put it up as first degree murder in the perpetration of rape. So therefore, you shouldn't have had that person testify that I raped her, because that just makes me sound bad.

Right. And, you know, it's you know, who wants to sound like you rape kids, you know what I mean? And it looks bad. You make it sound so much worse. Just sounds bad.

He said that that that was not a material proposition during the guilt phase of his trial. And he said even if relevant, he says the prejudicial effect of the testimony outweighs its probative value by far. So they the court says, quote, We find no merit in either argument.

First, an indictment that charges the killer in the common law form and does not specifically mention that killing was committed in the perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate one of the felonies named in the first degree statute murder statute. The charge may be proven with evidence that the killing was committed in perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate one of these felonies. So, no, the fucking law before you repeal shit. Second, despite the inability of the pathologist to say the rape, it occurred because of the condition of the body and the inability of the psychologist to determine how old the samples were there, the probative value of this evidence which supported his admissions that he had raped the rape the victim was not outweighed by its prejudicial effect, saying there was also.

It was also corroborated by all the people he told did it, so it's like those two things together. He also said that they aired an overruling his request for a DNA test. He saw an examination of everything of the samples found in the victim's clothing for a DNA comparison. And he said his request was first made at the hearing on the motion for a new trial, at which time his request was denied and he had not attempted to explain why.

He has not attempted to explain why this request was not made before trial or are to present any evidence suggesting a DNA test would presume to produce admissible evidence. So they said you haven't you could have asked for one before. And also at the same time, you you know, I don't know what you want from us, basically.

Like also you don't want that tested. No, no. Never, never. Years it is in a 14 year old's underwear is bad enough. Yeah. When it's George is a 14 year old underwear. That's a whole another whole other thing going on there.

He never wants that to know.

Also, he says the trial court erred in admitting evidence relative to the condition of the body as found, particularly as to anything that occurred to the body subsequent to death. He says that the evidence the body had decomposed and had been disturbed by animals was irrelevant and if relevant, that it's probative value as outweighed by its prejudicial value. So that's just what happened. How dare you give evidence? He just hates when there's evidence. I don't like it when they have all this evidence, this court trial thing.

I feel like I'm on trial. It's just bad, he says. Yeah, he also objects to as irrelevant to Detective Schroder's testimony at the guilt hearing that he had told him that one of the ways to get rid of a body was to feed it to pigs. And he wanted pictures for a scrapbook. I think that's pretty relevant. He also objects to the statements about putting a body in a graveyard and various places where they where they could search for body on a mountain.

All of these statements are relevant to show malice, and those concerning the location of the body evince a desire to mislead the authorities and to evade a prosecution from which guilt may be inferred.

Yeah, his defense attorney saw all of this evidence in Waltham.

The fuck this is perhaps the most questionable statement that's about. That is about the photographs for the scrapbook. But any error here is clearly harmless in the light of the proof. So they're like it's overwhelming. And just because he said that that might be a little prejudicial and doesn't mean as much, but still fucking bad. Yeah, they said they also the aggravating circumstances, he said they didn't find enough enough mitigating circumstances. He argues that the aggravators were not supported by the proof that the jury's finding of rape was not supported by the evidence.

But then again, he wanted to have the other thing out. So but it is if he got that knocked out, that would be true. But he didn't. So his confession to rape to to a fellow prisoners corroborated by the presence of all these fucking sperm samples on the victim's clothing and the location of her pants and underpants away from the body and the positioning of her jacket and brassiere over her neck and head is sufficient to support the finding that murder occurred during the commission of rape.

Go fuck yourself. Eat Decs.

The ruling stands. He is on death row for the strangulation, drowning and raping of a 14 year old fucking girl there. He appeals multiple times. Two dissenting votes actually, on this on on the appeal. The justices, it was a three to two on this one. They let stand the ruling that he received a fair trial and a proper sentence. This is Justice Thurgood Marshall and Brian are white, voted to hear arguments raised by TEALS appeal. But four votes are needed to grant such a review till was convicted of the crime there.

And Mary sits. So the appeal here he goes to finally nineteen ninety five. There's an appeal and it's at the Marion County Criminal Court, February 8th. Nineteen ninety five. He is looking for relief for right to counsel violation. There's a bad counts. They didn't give him counsel soon enough. Failure of counsel to present mitigating evidence that would have gotten him out of the death penalty. He said there was other mitigating factors that his attorney didn't like pursue, didn't put the witnesses on that he should have and all of this.

So through all of that, they decide in nineteen ninety five that he life in prison, they they get them. They commuted the death penalty on them. And they found out through a study that basically over the past 40 years this is from this study, this is a university study. Over the past 40 years, Tennessee has convicted more than twenty five hundred defendants of first degree murder. Among those twenty five hundred defendants, only eighty six received the death sentence and only six defendants were actually executed.

So out of twenty five hundred people, six were executed. How do you know how much fucking money was spent for those Eighty-six that were convicted and only six are executed?

Those 80 think about how many appeals and this and the state and the bullshit and this and a back and forth that you have to have one year to murder somebody. So it's just not worth it, man. I get that it feels good, but it's if you want like that guy, I want to kill this. Well, guess what? You know what? If you could kill him, you got to kill other people, too. Anyone? Yes.

That's because that's what always happens. It happens a lot because it's really hard to find a perfect trial. And if you're going to kill someone, it better be a perfect trial. Yeah, that's the problem. While the death sentence has been imposed on a total of nine hundred ninety two people, only eighty six ended up with sustained death sentences. In other words, cases are resulted in death sentences at trial have experienced a fifty five percent reversal rate.

It's a lot and that's a lot. Also, more than twenty three percent of capital defendants have been vacated on grounds of ineffective assistance of counsel. Well, that's the thing. If you're giving people public defenders every time, pretty much there's something they did. It's ineffective because they're not they don't have the time further indicating serious problems with the admission of the system, specifically in light of the standards of this shit. So over the past 40 years, at least three hundred and thirty nine defendants were convicted of counts of multiple, multiple counts of first degree murder, meaning multiple victims, many involving extraordinarily egregious crimes.

But only three of those defendants, 10 percent, received death sentences while the remaining three hundred and six received life or life without parole. Of the seventeen defendants found guilty of mass murder, four more victims, only two mass murder defendants. Twelve percent received sustained death sentences. And those are the people that you want that doesn't work. The other fifteen mass murder defendants, eight. The eighty eight percent were sentenced to life for life without parole.

So this is normal. It happens all the time. It's whatever. Yeah. A guy like that, you just hope that somebody fucking caves a skull and against a toilet bowl in a prison cell. It's like an up for because he's a piece of shit.

He's trafficked for the rest of his life. That's fine. That's fine. But I do I just ask in exchange for cigarettes. I do want has had to get bounced off a metal toilet every once in a while just for this just to go. You raped a 14 year old, you motherfucker. And just you son of a bitch. This is why I'm doing this. I'm just asshole. I hate that. I don't like that either. I want people to be put in prison to be abused.

But fuck this guy.

This is the person who deserves it. Yeah. Just once.

Just once. Once this guy will make an exception. Let's hold him and fucking move him.

What do you say has to be violence in prison? I mean, yeah. Yeah, I hope it. Zylon people, James and Jimmy's Holdman move them. There we go, everybody. Hope you enjoyed that is Whiteside, Tennessee and an absolute monster of an asshole. Complete, raging, swollen fucking farting and diarrhea spewing asshole the horrible man. They fucking hate him. So if you enjoyed that, tell us about it. Five stars give us five stars on Apple podcast.

That purple icon. It really does help a lot. Head over to shut up and give me murder dotcom for everything. Small town murder and crime and sports, which you should be listening to. Damn it, I don't know what the hell you're thinking if you're not. It's a matter it's a great stuff. Never mind. Good stuff. We it's our favorite thing. We love it so much. Also listen to P.S. I hate this movie because I have to watch these terrible movies, so I need you to listen and experience and commiserate with me.

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That said. God damn it, Jimmy boy. Nothing else left to do but hit me with the names of the best people in the world who I never, ever want to be knocked off their chairs with a punch to the air. Hit me with those names right now, Jimmy.

This week's executive producers are Rebecca Valadares, Susanna Platt, Sabrina Jones, Natasha Patel, Jessica West, Brian Harber, Eric Lugo, Billy Mike Rambo, the third Samantha and Shaun Carlson. I know. Thanks, Sam and Shawn. Joanne A'Hearn, Craig Coles, Shannon Russell, Justin Segre and Tina C0. Jordan Bennett. Fran in Australia. And Tim is in Afghanistan. They watch they watched the live show together. Oh well thank you so much. Oh cool.

Thanks. Stay safe, Tim. Jesus Christ. Careful out there, honestly. Also, Josh Denton and other producers this week are Dan Potasnik. It happened. Dick Papen Dick. It's his birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday paper. His girlfriend got him into the shows that she feels safer around him. Oh, good. Thomas Thomas DeMello, Marko's Jinro, Carus Lynn, Miccarelli. Majura Rabbis smile all of each.

Why do you like that? Happy, happy birthday, Rob.

I think his last name's Aguilar or that's just his girlfriend's name. I'm not sure. Shane Quarrels, quarrels, quarrels. Sarah de Leon had a birthday and an anniversary. I don't know which or which. Congratulations are Georgia, the Georgia Metal Alliance and Heavy Metal Club in Illinois. Their chapter in Georgia. That is cool. Yeah, the Georgia won the Georgia chapter in Illinois.

I don't know. Awesome. Well, I get getting into those medals. Thank you. Other producers are Jason Lewis, Kayla Krupski, Nicole Nikola and Varvara. What? Nikola Nikola? Asked Varvara. That's what that says. Caitlin Stephenson. Marshall, Big Sergeant Brandon. I think a Joey Joey. Cardinal Card. Cardinal card out on bail. Pagano, Pagano. Now the truck. Yeah but it's. Oh he is isn't he. Yeah. Yeah but Pagano.

Caitlyn Katzir horse.

What does this Hosa Joseph and Beanca Bryant Arjun big saying to you what big sing to you. I don't know. Evan Cokely. Sidney Willis. Chris Chris McGregor. Imust. I'm Azera Dactyl Wattana. I like that Aaron would no last name. Victoria with no last name. Sara Croft. Teela Tahlia here on and what Turhan in Furin AnCo what you asked Heather Stenson. Jenny Cattolica Jessica Cayler Colla Sidney Al Hyam. Melissa more Fiz XLF. What is he.

Yes. Amanda Drop. Samantha Lobach. Steve Williams. Russell Rose Jossie Jocie Penning Megan General Jarrod. Nathan Holbert. Billy Melena. Mark what. Rachel recall what. Joe Maskey. Britney. You guys told me to type this. I did. And now I still can't do it. Britney Dawson or Amanda Hansen. Charlie Cassidy the the Carrie Lee Tresh Phoenix. Hailey Harmon Hardeman Liz Regnant Rager. Andrea Friends. Ryan would no last name. Julie Montag.

Dave Ritter Holp Ritter off Tyler Stone. Scott Murphy Rehak Classon. Suzanne Charles Nina Classer. Gabrielle O'Conor Chelsea Emerald. Jordan Anderson Brandon. Nope. That's Brad Samson Christian Christian. Christina Mané Dylan Amos. Danielle Atkins Thomas Gleek. Gisele Geeslin Chad Furguson. Christopher Whammer. Nicole Nicolelis Bronson. Renee Go Tom Blank Danger Biegel Crystal Nordon Brent Wow. Waning When Angar. Andrew McLean. Eric Lugo. I said that KFC five dollars fill up what KFC five dollars for.

OK, Caitlyn Rusk, Amber Harris. Kristi Pack. Emily Tinti. Cynthia the what. But Kat.

Yeah she's one of our executives also I'm sure Anthony Stack, Brian Gutwein, Goosewing Jocie Gaskill Gallito Harry would no last name mehndi Esther would Michelle Allen. Jesus Christ this is tough. Dan Kelly. Aaron got them by the way, these aren't this has nothing to do with scribbling them down. He's reading these off a computer today and this is this is printed names. Just say it out.

Aaron Beard, Dylan Warren for transparency. Rob Vogel, Amy Jensen. Taylor would no last name. Kara Stevens Stephensen. Michael Coleman, Kelly, Sheehan, Sheehan, Sheehan, Mike, nope, that's Matt Matt with Nick what? I don't know. W Nick. It's a whole name. God. Here you go.

Teyana Krein, Sandy Ashbery, Taylor Sharpe, Sarah Wingard, Phillips Norburg and Naomi Leatherwood. Jennifer Maroochy Marico A Amauri.

Andrew Wade. Chelsea Haliday. Jennifer Devean. Derek DeYoung. Ashley Ashley Mentzer. John Cooper fucking. What is happening. Charlene Crocker. Diana Ghadry. Oh Gujral Hayle Ruling. Amber Eldridge. Tyler Donaldson. Tim James. That's James Lyons. Derek Platt, Tommy Toni Thomas, Mark Thomas Cat and Mr. Fish. Emily Monder. Monday, Monday. Hank Isabelle. Isabella Quick. T.S. Mechel, Mickey Lilly Parthian. What was that. Schippert Hall I think.

I don't know.

Judy Garland did the letter say I know the letters say Chapin Hall, but so it's all one word. Yeah, but I don't know how it's a pat hall.

I gotcha. All right. OK.

And Angelia, Angelique Collins, Amanda Spence, Gabrielle Flynn, Inken Flanagan, buddy Buddy Rogers, Paolo Frido, Gregory Gonzalez. I'm trying so hard. Hector Mendez, I think. Yes. Andrea Howard. Joseph Deniece, Gwendoline very. And Millender Taylor with no last name. Katelyn Lynn Winstead. Brandy K. Kimi Novavax. Sharra Panio. Kacie BoCom. David Nope. That's David. Yeah.

Jacobs no that's David. Andrea Klensch Kleinschmidt. Austin Yoder. James Caren's Carlos Tavera Tavares Midwest. Greyhound, Sarah with no last name. Dr. Kyle Berkley ls Elsie WSC now. Wow. Just LSW say us all of that stuff. I'm a lot of trouble. Anthony Frid, Sonia Babi. Amanda ey ey. Joseph Campbell. Jennifer Thomas. Jane Hart. Michael Gruner. I'm so bad at this.

No you're doing fine. John Blancs. Jesse with Jess would no last name. Sean Marre. Ted Jabarah. What a night. Where did I go. What did I do.

I just pressed the button and things went bad. I don't know what happened.

It's just two fingers.

Right. And then it moves right down. Just careful. Jennifer Thomas, Gayed Hart, Michael Gruner. I said that John Blank say now they're old, now they're all a mess. Shannara, Ted Jabarah, Maxsted, Kiewit, Sean McGowan, Steve, Steve Krauss's. That Shortbus can't be now not on the list.

I don't know if it's Busse, thanks, but I don't know. His email has Sixty-nine in it. That doesn't sound like our guy kind of sounds like our guy might be OK. Might be our guy. Greg would know his name. Dave Jensen. Katie Breuer's Shane Halvard Evrard. Kathy Claymates. Emily Self. What Sabira Quinn. Dakota would no last name. Tiffany Manson. Susan Lynch. Brian getting G.S. Daris. What does this Mary Dexter Christopher Bruxner want her brookshaw maybe.

I don't know. You still have Patty Davis, Ronald Cougher, Nicky Kilbey, Rebecca Rogers and that's Scott Hoeness. You guys told me to do this. I blame you. Marylee of Valencia. Valencia oh. Matt Walker. Jonathan Demayo de Mayo. Alexandrea a brown moose candy.

Oh Moose Candle Company. Hey, Amzi Pearl. Sarah Phillips. Angela Kotch. BOP bop Jillani. What possibility mccleen. I don't know what that is. Philip Stevenson, Anya Mathes said that, like right now, like Shaggy seeing a ghost. Good, good, good, good, good, good ghost.

Mark Rawles, Emma Kay, Emma Shayana Foulness. Now, it's not right either, dammit. N'goni Teesdale Lucy King.

Rejuvenile wrote it like this every week.

Vecchi with no last name. Kailin Dillane. Rod Rod Vought.

Jonathan published Pablito Not so easy to read off the computer now is Christopher M.H. Taylor Karsner Cameron Manlove boy oh boy.

Lauren Waters broke with no last name. Marijan Holby Bassett. Rob Nelson. Martha Artis. Collin Hatfield. Tasha Dixon. Tony Chisato. Carly Nicholson. Jill Jeen Francisco. Oh boy.

Got Laura Harris, Lena Holder. Lena Holderman. She's terrific. I know who she is. Rajneeshee want Liron Kawan Talula. That's not right either. Taylor Arthur. I'd slowed down Neil for Zord, Diane and Steven.

OK, it's two fingers and push and it works.

OK, Kayla, Kayla Hentges and she's Frank and Chiyo laser bundes. Twenty two. Joshua Mueller. Courtney Baikie Vallerie shewn. Joshua Fermor 34th Yeah. Nicole Greenies Greenley Goddamnit. Stephanie Mueller. Brandon St George. Jean Napier. Michael Hernandez. Cheryl Carter. Missy would no last name. Tresh Simpson and Adam Angas. Tim Tim Sam. Melissa Sloss. Kit Bruen. Emily. Nope. That's Emily Amell. Emily Ross. Jack would no last name your boy.

Cohon klap kid. Cool. All right. Stephanie Woodring, the niece Angie Nete. Barbara would no last name. Fareeda Kenny. Mike Planty. David Towser, Brandon Clancy, Richard Smalley, Suzanna Platt, Sabrina Jones. Marcus Garfunkel, Natasha. Natasha Patel, Tyisha McPhearson. That's TJ Maxx. Hey, hey, Owen. T.J. Paone er INQ Steven Shanelle. Joshua Wesseh, Steveston man our people are here.

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Elizabeth Quarrels. Kristen Bellinger. Shannon Russell. Thomas Smith Santero. Grant Stansbury. Jordan Bennett. Of course I didn't have her on the exact goddammit Victoria Blount. Just insane. Great. Duncan Wilson. Sarah Dylan. Eric Wagner. Darcy Nope. That search query. What is that. Frances Hennessy, Henchy Hirschi. Josh Denton, Sarah Carroll, Amy Dary, Biery, Amy Connelly and Jessie Pitts. You guys, thank you. And all of our patrons.

You guys are terrific. Thank you. Thank you so much so much. Everybody, you have kept us alive and you've kept us going and you've you've given us a reason for life. Staggeringly overwhelming. Thank you. Thank you so much, honestly, for everything you do and for supporting the show. And we will keep working as hard as we can on these shows and especially those Patriot episodes. We take those real seriously. We want those to be fucking hilarious for you.

So thank you for everything you do for us. We will never let you down. And Jimmy, what if they didn't want you to let them down?

They got all they can find me on the Internet. Advertisement sucks, which I guess man sucks on Twitter and Instagram. Thank you guys for everything. Really. It's it's really, really overwhelming.

It is. Thank you. It's just great to be able to to love something and love doing it. And then you guys like it to someone else cares and thank you for liking that. Where can they find I at Jimmy P is funny.

Just copy and paste. You know how to find people on the goddamn internet. You can do it there. But that said wild ride. Yeah. We're actually upset a man isn't going to be electrocuted to death. But besides that, it's really nice. Yeah. That guy. Yes. It was so worth. That said, I think it's time to go and until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure, my. And.