Transcribe your podcast

This week in Mount Zion, Illinois, when a head wrapped in plastic and other body parts are found to belong to a missing young woman. Investigators find only one way to crack the mystery, the DNA of a dog. Of course. Welcome to small town murder.


Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder, yeah. Yeah, indeed, Jimmy. Yeah, indeed, my name is James Rogallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Weissman. Thank you, folks. An immense amount for joining us today. We are excited as usual. We've had some wild stuff lately and it's going to continue this week again because we're in Illinois and it's always an insane case in Illinois for some reason. So we're going to get back there.


It's going to be a lot of fun. Just want to thank everyone, first of all, for your reviews this week. They help a lot. The Apple podcast, that purple icon. We don't understand why they count. We if it was up to us, we wouldn't have it at all. There'd be no review system. But it's there. It helps drive you up the charts. So give us five stars. That helps a lot. If you haven't done that yet, anyway, go over to shut up and give me murder dotcom right now for everything.


Small town murder and everything. Crime and sports as well. Why would you want to go there for something? Crime and sports? Well, something very special is going to be going on sale very, very shortly. Keep checking up on there and follow us on social media at murder small at small town pod at small town murder on Instagram. Check all those out because this week the virtual live show for crime and sports goes on sale. And I don't even care if you haven't heard crime and sports a crime in sports live show I can't wait is up.


You won't see a better comedy show. Yeah, it's so good. I'm telling you right now, it's really, really wild and crazy stuff. So get your tickets there. Shut up and give me murder. Dotcom on sale very, very shortly. And also Patreon. Oh my goodness. We have had some wild stuff on Patreon last week. We did the the Hotel Cecil deal and then we of course, had the prisoner dating game, which was our best edition of it yet, I believe.


So if you miss that, you're going to want that. Yes. Patrie on dotcom slash crime and sports this week coming up for crime and sports, which you'll also get if you sign up, you get access to all. The Patreon is going to be about Marv Albert, the the nineties basketball announcer who had a really hilarious sex scandal. Let's just say for a for a weird old bald guy who says, yes, when a ball goes in a basket to have a it's just a weird story.


So we have to check that out. And then four small town murders bonus. We are going to talk all about the Netflix. I was Netflix, right?


It is, yes. That the next Night Stalker, tonight's documentary documentary.


We're going to talk about that and Richard Ramirez and all that weird stuff. And we can't usually talk about serial killers on small town murder because it just doesn't go. And people have talked about them. But I'm on. We can do it. So it's so much fun.


Small towns don't usually generate the the the serial killer in a sprawling metropolis where, you know, there's lots and lots of victims, more people to kill.


Yeah, that's the thing. You want to have a larger it's harder to kill people if everyone knows you. Well, who'd you see kill a serial killer.


You got to go where where the people are. That's how it works. So check all that out. Patreon dotcom slash crime and sports. It's a lot of fun. You get access to the whole back catalog and Jimmy will mispronounce your name at the end of the show because you are now a producer and honestly a hero of ours. So thank you so much for that. And everyone's a credit. Thank you. Do and if you just want to be an amazing person and have great karma and also be a producer and get your name mispronounced, you can do that as well.


Over at PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at Gmail dot com. Right. That said, quick disclaimer. We got a lot of show. This is a this case is it's insane. It's absolutely insane. So quickly. It's a comedy show. We're comedians. This is there's going to be jokes made and there's going to be people dead because nobody died. Small town murder would really be kind of false advertising. So there will be a murder and we're going to talk about it and jokes will be made what we do do and go out of our way to do as we try and make sure we don't make fun of the victim or the victim's family.


Why? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags know that's how it works there. Honestly, there's a lot of comedy in the crazy idea of to kill somebody in the plot leading up to it. And how are we going to get away with it? It's really absurd. So there's plenty to make fun of with the murder and of course, small towns, because, you know, when everybody's from somewhere, I made fun of where I'm from a few episodes ago.


So you can take it, too. But if that sounds good to you, we're going to have fun, see things true. Crime and comedy should never, ever go together. Maybe this isn't for you, but maybe it is. And if it is, I think it's time to sit back and shout, shut up and give me Merner.


Let's do this, Jimmy. No, let's go on a trip, shall we?


I would I'd really, really love it.


We need to we need to go somewhere. We are coming from Nevada last week with one of the craziest people that we've ever had on this show.


That guy's arrest was that I don't think we've had anything nuttier on the whole show than hanging on to a luggage rack, surfing on the back bumper, screaming obscenities at an elderly couple.


That's the craziest arrest video game sketch in. Do you remember that? That sounds familiar. You had it was it was an rollerblades or popular and you had roller blades and you would grab the back of a car and then you'd be people that will ride in the car with you.


And but would you just stand on the bumper while hanging on the luggage rack? That seems like a great if you had roller blades, I'd see what he was up to. I go, Yeah, I got it. He's hitching a ride. That was insane, though. And what he did was also even crazier and, you know, pyramids and the Mount Olympus and all that shit. So this week they were going to Illinois, back to Illinois, one of our favorite states to cover.


Always they're always very receptive and they like to be made fun of. They like to be roasted. They're good people in Illinois are kind of people. That's why we're always there. That's why we tour there the most. And they're just the best to us. So we're going to Mt. Zion, Illinois, which is the central Illinois that was in Utah. It's there's a few of them, actually. There's a lot of Mt. Zion. Yeah. Yeah.


It's a common name throughout the country. I don't know how many there are, but there's got to be at least ten of them in the US, I'm sure.


So this is original. This is in central Illinois, though. This is like Illinois was a dart board. This is the eye. It's dead center. It's right outside of Decatur, Illinois, which is kind of their little hub.


There's like maybe 70000 people there on the ground that is plentiful, plentiful, and also indicated a lot of dictators.


And the town the county name, too, is common. It's really weird. This is about three hours to Chicago, about two hours to St. Louis. So it's kind of, you know, little in the middle of the two of them, you know, halfway between this and that. Three hours and twenty minutes to Streamwood, Illinois, which was our last Illinois episode, which was some dogs find all the legs. Wow. That's was friendly. That was friendly.


The dog. Yeah. So we were back in Illinois and a dog is going to play another big part of this case, which is so strange. And what's happening there. Yeah, this I feel like this is a halfway point between other places where you stop to pee. OK, I feel like most police force is just is just dogs.


It's just dogs and some sort of enforcement agency.


That old photo of of dogs playing poker is a picture of their police force on lunch break.


That's that's the that's Friday night when they get together for team building. That's about as this is in Macon County, which is Decatur and Macon, which were both Georgia, very southern. Weird area code two one seven. It's about four square miles, not that big. They actually have a town motto, though, this small town on their website, it is, quote, builds your story here.


Oh, that's there's another one also that I found. It's not they don't put it on the signs, but it's true, quote, you're halfway to somewhere better, which I think is a more I think that's an optimistic and it's optimistic, right? Sure. That's a good one, Mr. Storrier, because there will definitely be an end.


You're going to leave right now. People people actually like this town.


It's very I couldn't find any book, bad reviews of it. They really like it here. They're fine with it. They fucking and they love it. So the history of this town, Macon County, quickly was formed out of a part of Shelby County, was named for Nathaniel Macon, who was a colonel in the Revolutionary War and later was a senator. And then he also in this county. This is where Abraham Lincoln and his family moved in 1830.


Awesome. So when he was young, they came here. So, yeah, real history and some history.


Shit. So the township here, I found a history of this town and I'm like, Jesus, what a fucking boring history. So I'm going to give you, like the Sahara Desert fast fact of the historical part of the town here. Just dry, very dry thing here. The township is bounded by on the north, by the Long Creek, on the west, by the Wheatland and South Macon townships, on the south, by Milham Township, on the east by Muhl County.


It has an area of thirty nine square miles. Oh boy. That is wonderful. The township is well drained by Finley Big and Sandy Creeks. OK, so there's that. There's a lot of streams and shit. All the water's leaving. It seems like it and a lot of things are leaving from here. The first settler was a guy named James Finley. He came from Kentucky in eighteen twenty seven and built a cabin out of just fucking lie.


He didn't like make lumber, he just built it out of logs, just shot trees down and laid them on top of each other and was like, that's a house now.


Didn't treat them, didn't know Berkoff Unbaked on Hune Logs is what they said.


That's just nothing there. Rob Lowe actually. Oh, Rob Lowe built the first mill in Mount Zion Township in eighteen thirty five.


Yeah. Well and then they went on to then he filmed himself having sex with a girl inside of the mill. That was the thing. Yeah. That's what happened there. It was abandoned mill run by horsepower. OK, holy shit. So reviews of this town, this is the worst review I could find here. This is a three star review. The worst one now, quote, Mount Zion is a quaint little town with a small population of predominantly white people.


This does not seem to be what the town is looking for there. A small town, small town, people with a with big time vision. Christianity is the acclaimed unofficial religion town gatherings for fall or spring bubble into a bountiful array of smiling children. What the fuck kind of review is this? The children or what?


Well, got bubbling and bubbling into a bubble, into a bountiful array of smiling children. That's a citizen from down Longfellow. Relax, Jesus Christ. Oh, no. You're loving his place.


My God. The children are very adaptive in regards to cultural variations. What the hell does that mean? This could only be reflective of the acceptance and open mindedness of the loving, qualified leaders or mentors. This is the mayor or like the mayor's wife, the loving, qualified leaders who calls their mayor a loving, qualified leader or anybody who has ever said, except for like maybe their Evanston or somebody that wants them to run for president.




So they can say, I've been on board the time or there aren't such a good boy. He was always a good he was a nice boy, used to mow my lawn. I wouldn't even have to ask him to just come over and throw Barack Obama's brother wouldn't have written that shit about. Nobody would.


That's the craziest thing I've ever said. This is like, yeah, this is like a Donald Junior review of his dad or something like this is somebody I'm real. It's like it's a it's like a marketing. Yeah.


It feels just so foreign and it's just very odd.


It's an odd thing. It's very strange. Here's four stars here. There's a low crime rate and I don't have to worry about packages disappearing. OK, that's good. OK, I also it yeah. Also the traffic is not very congested while at the same time the city is surprisingly clean and there's not a lot of pollution, but the whole town smells bad because of a giant soybean processing factories nearby. Also, I worry about lung damage caused by a glass making factory nearby that stores crushed glass outside.


Why are you giving this town four stars? What are you talking about? You just said the town. It reeks and you're worried that you have glass in your lungs. But for starters, what the fuck is that? I'm coughing up blood and everything smells bad.


You what would they have to do to you in this town to give it one star? This person what? Like the mayor would have to come over, ripped them from their home, strip them naked and marched them through the streets while kicking them in the ass and blowing a bugle like throwing them upside down, pack their ass full of broken glass if you like.


Listen, you know what, Stilo? The traffic wasn't bad during the parade. I was they were marching me down the street. People could still drive right by if they wanted to out and my packages or some shit from Amazon. When I got home from the charger all my shit was there.


So you know what for stars I got to my murder trial where they're framing me for murder was surprisingly easy, not surprisingly easy. Not bad. So strange for stars. If you like small towns, it's not a bad place to live. It's very safe. But there's not a lot of things to do past ten o'clock. Well, that's a tradeoff that you make because past 10:00, which it's not safe. So if there's not Nardil near in your house, then it's safe.


Plenty of families live here, but to be fair, there isn't a lot of diversity of culture. I would like to see more recreational places and more activities, especially later at night. All of those things bring more crime. Recreation brings people in. That's part of the thing.


If there's nothing going on, we'll get drunk and hopped up on something or other. Yeah, if there's nothing else going awry, nothing to do for stars. Mount Zion is a quiet, safe place to live and work. That's good. The only downside is that the area around it is so rural there's not much to do nearby. Most good entertainment restaurants and stores are at least ten minutes away, usually much more. And here's five stars. The Supreme Town.


Yeah, I have been living in Mount Zion for ten years and it is safe and welcoming. I love the fact that wherever I go, I always run into somebody I know. Oh Jesus. One thing I would like to see change is that it would be nice for them to bring something to town that would give it more revenue, like a new park, for example. What a fucking park brings in revenue. How does that make money?


So how does a park make money? All the money. Yeah, no one. And then. No, no, that's one hundred percent overhead. That's all. That's all shit. The fix and clean and never owned a business in his life.


The guy that work for the man for effort. This is a big space where people come for free, you know, to generate revenue. If you're saying you park should be there, great. But not to generate revenue. That's not those don't go to.


I understand, I, I like having nice things to look at too. But understand that that costs money. That's Yeah. That's not going to generate shit. So people in this town population five thousand nine hundred seventy nine and that's in all of the Mt. Zion, that's Mt. Zion Township and this and that, they're all a bunch. A little places, it's up 32 percent since 1990, so people are going there, more females and males by a lot like 53 and a half percent female, which is well over the national average.


And kind of odd when you're talking about 6000 people. That's a big a big pool. Median age is older. Forty one and a half. But it's all everybody is like thirty five to forty five or five to nine years old. Yeah, that's it. So it's all obviously like, you know, families and shit like that with kids married population 60 percent. So that goes right along with that. That's very high. The divorce rate is higher than normal actually also which you know, get married a lot.


You're going to get divorced. Some do. That's how that 40 percent of those and that's how it works here. So race of this town has a lot of a lot of allusions to it in the reviews of, like the diverse cultural makeup here. It's 88 percent white, which is PI, three point three percent black, which is about a quarter of the normal and point five percent Asian and one point eight percent Hispanic. So it's pretty fucking white.


And basically, that's not not a lot of anything else going on here. 49 percent are religious, which is about average in the rest of the country, and they are spread the Midwest. So they are spread out all over the place. There's some Catholics and Baptists, Methodists, a couple of Presbyterians here. And there are a of Christianity hodgepodge of Christianity, zero point zero percent Jewish, though none of that hodgepodge in there at all. And then three percent Islam, which is an actual tie.


There must be a community there. There has to be. Yeah. So Macon County, in the last elections or the last presidential election, 38 percent of the people in this county voted Democratic and fifty six percent voted Republican, but six percent independent. So you got that unemployment rate here is a little bit high, a little bit higher than normal. But the household incomes also a little bit higher than normal. So really, median household income here is about seventy one thousand one hundred dollars a year, which is about this.


That's over the fifty seven thousand dollars normal. Almost 20 percent of the people here make one hundred to one hundred and fifty thousand a year AASLD wise, which is great. That's that's really good.


That's why you got four star reviews, because there's some fucking money to be made. That's the thing that helps. The jobs, though, are disproportionately manufacturing jobs, which is tough because those come and go.


So that's that's the problem. Now they're doing OK, but in five, ten years, who the fuck know?


Who knows? It's twenty four percent of the jobs here, manufacturing. It's 10 percent in the rest of the country. So that's what do they make and do you know, that's a lot. I don't know what the hell they're making there.


Who know soybeans and glass, apparently, from what I understand, that's part of it. Now, the cost of living in this town, of course, is a little bit low to a hundred as regular average PA here it is, seventy eight point five. So a little bit low, but the housing is only fifty four, which is low median home ownership house. I know you do. You're always no matter how bad we describe a place, people are like, it's awful.


It smells like soybeans. You'll hear like a house is eighty two grand here. Like I could live there and I go back and I get back.


As long as my house is cheap, I don't care if I'm miserable.


So I think my biggest problem is that I'm historically cheap. It's not even it's not even all. Jimmy's pretty frugal to the point of making yourself miserable. It's to the point of wanting to live in terrible places. So you're not worried about your mortgage payment. It's awesome. So yeah, one hundred twenty five thousand one hundred dollars is the median home cost here. OK, so that's super low. And obviously I'm sure that all of you by now are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt it's going to move here.


So if you are, we have for you the Mt. Zion, Illinois real estate report.


Your average two bedroom rental here goes for about seven hundred and sixty five dollars, which is very low.


It's almost half and it's a little over half affordable.


I found a four bedroom, two bath. 1543 square foot house needs a lot of updating. I mean, it looks like it's nineteen eighty nine in this joint. Four bedrooms, four bedroom, two bath, fifteen, almost sixteen hundred square feet. So you got a couple enough square footage for that. Now you got a couple of kids and stuff them in there. You know if you have three kids in, in a low budget this is a good place to be.


Two hundred four thousand nine hundred bucks. Wow. So I mean you can update it a little bit for that kind of price. I found a three bedroom, one and a half bath. Eight hundred square foot house. There you go. It's updated a little bit more. It's very plain. Yeah. It's a decent house.


That's what I call it. I go, that's a decent house.


One hundred twenty grand. OK, that's and that's about your doable.


That's about the average there. So let's plan your average house and then I. Found, you know, chain link fence, all that kind of shit, then I found a four bedroom, three and a half bath, four thousand four hundred fifty eight square foot house. My God, it's new looking updated.


Three car garage, nice big house.


Three hundred twenty grand for that. That would be two million dollars in Phenix, that's for sure. Three hundred twenty five thousand forty almost forty five hundred four thousand king. That would be so expensive. It's such a nice house. Three hundred grand. Three to one. He looks like he might be able to get them down to three. Ten like what. Are you kidding me.


Three hours from Chicago. Two hours from St. Louis. That's a deal, man. That's not bad, I'm telling you. So I think if you don't mind the crushed glass in your lungs, it's yeah, it's a bargain. Maybe it's got a real heavy side being sent. Maybe it's a whole valley that keeps it or side pocket. So things to do here.


Pony Express days.


No, no, no.


I love whatever. It's some like old timey like a heritage festival days and all this shit, whatever.


It's something old timey like oh now people are going to dress up in old funny costumes and embarrass those guys and drive down the road on the back that it's not a good thing to remember.


It's really that. Yeah, but they're going to remember it, God damn it.


Oh yeah. So this they have I'll go through the days of this bitch because it's got a lot going on by Thursday, August 16th. This was from two years ago or two years ago because it got canceled last year.


Was this a rout on the Pony Express? Is that why they do it? It's like a stopover or something like the Pony Express can't fairgrounds or something. So I don't know if maybe real proud of that. I just love it there. The Thursday, August 16th Carnival, they have a big carnival, I guess, which is going to take your money and crooked games of chance. It's a game of chance. Gave gave a chance. Well, they're not games of skill.


This is for somebody to try to fucking rig it to steal your money.


The games of games of thievery here. Charity, that's family night. That night you can steal from the children and grandma as well. That's great. Well, round everybody up and take their money. That's part of it.


Under the guise of family bonding. We're going to steal your money. Sorry you didn't win that knock off minion. I apologize. Get your fucking shit out of luck.


Sorry you didn't you didn't win the memo. Yeah, sorry that ball didn't bounce inside the goldfish bowl. I really am. I really wanted it. So, but it's not gonna it's also armband night. I don't know what that means, but it scares me. Yeah.


I've never been a group that an arm band has been a positive thing. I don't know why I saw it.


I'm like, oh my. That's not good at all. Our bad night. That's not great. But who knows, it could be an arm band. That's you don't know what it's all about. His arm band have a crooked ax on it.


What's going on there. I think my ex melted. And we're not saying you're Nazi central Illinois. You're not southern Illinois, for God's sake. You know, thank God for you. You're very close. Well, like that because everybody in Illinois makes fun of southern Illinois. So, yeah, that area. So the at the special event event arena, they have the flip side of fame. That's a band that's playing.


Oh, flip side of him, you know, not famous.


I was going to say the flip's that they're I think they're wrong in their semantics. They're the flip side would be you'd have to have one to have a side to flip. This is just a two sided shit going because I don't know who these people are. This has a it's a coin with a picture. Abe Lincoln squatting and taking a dump on it. And that's what that is. That's what you get. Oh, that's that's the flip side.


Yeah. That's on both sides. Now, the other one, he's just he's just got his cock in his hand. Grab it if you like Johnny Rock. Oh my God. It gets worse. Looking at flipping off the sculptor while he's grabbing his balls like he's like it's a Sex Pistols concert that's it's going on like fucking Tupac. So then there's knuckleball Max is going on after that. Oh, boy. I don't know if that's large breasted women playing some sort of ball game or I don't know what that is, but it's where large breasted women stomping on somebody's balls.


Maybe that's we don't know what happens here. It's like they have armbands on anything's possible. So I have no idea what's going on. Then it's bike night also that night.


So. Yeah, and I don't know if I think motorcycles I hope next night another carnival, another are banned. Then the oddfellows steak dinner, which I felt is is a social club isn't. Yeah. My Little League, one of the teams was sponsored by Oddfellows really like four of the teams in my little league were sponsored by social clubs. Is that weird that a bar.


No, no. It's a social club. It's like a like a like no no no.


Like like we're like old men fucking gather and play cards and. Like the raven, right, that's fucking social club, not the oddfellows or Mafia, they're just a bunch of old pipefitters probably. But it's like a bar, though, right? It's early. It's a private club kind of a thing. Yeah. That's like half the teams in the league are all sponsored by I don't like the word social club.


It leaves too much to my.


Well yes. Social. You imagine people are dressing on each other. That's a social activity.


You can imagine these things. And I'm like, oh, that sounds like a nightclub. You're like, no, no. Like, oh my God, what could it possibly be?


Oh, no, this is creepy. Oh no. Then the band playing that night is the brother's odd and you go, so there's those guys and then more knock her ball that night. That's Saturdays. When things pick up there's a carnival but that goes on early. Then there's a road race. I don't know what's up with that. That sounds dangerous. Mud volleyball after that. Yeah, that's fun. Garden tractor pulls. So these are garden tractors that are pulling just you scoop up your garden tractor.


I guess I like that. That sounds OK.


I'm not asking you get your John Deere. Let's see. It's more about engineering. Yeah.


My brother would be great at that. You have like he would have like this. He builds sick things. Yeah.


But I've never seen somebody put a manual transmission into an automatic vehicle just to do it just because he felt like I never heard of it and also lifted a bunch to in the process as well.


It's weird.


Why do you have the transmission to put a manual in it. Why. Okay, sure. We just saw some YouTube videos. You're like, you know, the person that bought that paid extra for that automatic.


No, you're going to want that piece of shit. After that, there's something I don't like, just the sound of it, it's like armband. Could be the most beautiful, sweet thing in the world. It makes me feel weird.


The Kitty Cheesus, kitty slash adult pedal tractor pull. Nope, I get that. It's probably like a mom and her son, like, pedal a tractor together and. Oh, come on Timmy, you can do it. But kitty slash adult anything makes me creeped out. I don't like it. And then the gun wisky band is after that. Oh yeah. That's another good one. Are they like everybody.


People love guns. Well fuck I love whisky's do shit with a gun whiskey ban.


I don't know as much shit people like.


Is it gun with two N's. No it's one n one n gun wisky band. That's it. And then after them River Bottom Nightmare Band is playing.


So I believe there tonight and I have to show you I'll turn the Montorgueil when I can. Here are the pictures of all these people. Look at the and then the one coming to the Fudan Hillbillies.


The Fudan Fusion apostrophe.


Yeah. Hillbillies. And they're pointing at the middle guy.


He's the hillbilly. He's the one he's we don't like him. He's no good. And then quickly, I found another thing for a free concert on the Hill night. They have they have an advertisement for Gospel Night featuring Saint Paul Missionary Baptist Church with Larry Crawford and the Mount Zion Baptist Church, which sounds like this is going to be whatever it says, bring blankets and chairs for hill seating, grab yourself a billy hot dog, a cold beer, and stake out your favorite spot on the hill.


I'm like, that's some church right there. This isn't like common. You know, everybody equal. This is grab yourself some beer and some hot dogs and we're going to sing about Jesus.


Let's get on bucket. Let's let's do it in the fun way. Something that's the part that's free. You mean to tell me it costs money to see the feuding hillbilly?


You have to pay to see the and hillbillies you've got to pay to find out. Right. You've got to pay to find out who's wrong. And that's an area. So I have news for you.


It's you if you paid. That's right. You fucked up. You're the wrong one. So crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here is about property crime is about one third of the national average. So two thirds under the national average. So very low. They don't steal your Amazon packages as the reviews say. Honest people, the review has proven out in these statistics. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and of course, assault.


The Mount Rushmore of crime is under half of the national average. Wow. Pretty damn safe place. I got to say, it's just like this. Just like everybody says. It's not a lot to do after 10:00 p.m., but it's a safe place. So let's talk about a murder. Oh.


Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Madison Reed, you could find out yourself at Madison Dasari, Reed, Dotcom. And what you need to do here is take your hair at home, your coloring, your hair at home to the next level. That's what you got to do. And you're sitting at home, you're coloring it. Let's face it, for a long time, you could these these home hair coloring, they're not that good.


They take forever and it's a mess. And then it doesn't even come out the way you want it. And they don't have your shade that you want and all that. This is what Madison Reed has done. They've worked so hard to get rid of that and to make it. You can do it at home. And it's just a salon. Beautiful deal here. And you deserve gorgeous professional hair color delivered to your door starting at just twenty two dollars.


We all deserve that. That's the thing here. For decades they've you've only had these options. You could either outdated thing at home or you go to the salon, you spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars and you come home and you don't even look as good as you would with Madison Reed. And they're amazing, amazing colors. You're going to love the results. Gorgeous, shiny, multidimensional, healthy looking hair. You know, you want that. Everybody does.


It's a game changing ammonia free color you can do at home. And you look just like the salon. It's crafted by master colorists. They blend all sorts of nuances, all this stuff to make over Fifty Five shades. And if you're thinking how do you match your color, though, you have a specific color, that's fine. Madison Reed gives you the tools you need so you can color with confidence out there. Who doesn't want to color with confidence?


You know, obviously, I don't dye my hair, Jimmy. I want to just dye his scalp. Maybe one of these days we'll take a Madison Reed product and we'll give him like a nice like an Auburn scalp. It'll be wonderful. Maybe we'll do something like that. But we've heard nothing but amazing things from our listeners. They bag what's that Madison read code again. So I'm telling you, people really like this. Ladies, get your Madison read or guys, whatever you want to do, find your perfect shade at Madison.


Read Dotcom and our listeners get ten percent off plus free shipping on their first color kit with the code small town murder, that small town murder at dad Madison. Dasch read Dotcom today and now back to the show. Can't wait.


Being that it's so safe, we kind of have to talk about a murder. So let's do this and say for some people, it definitely wasn't safe for. Let us go back to September 29th, 1996. OK, so not too far back. No, these people, a couple of them even have cell phones. I'm sure there's no like Internet on them. They're smidge heavy. But, Yareli, an Internet. But if you needed to get a hold of them for six dollars a minute, you could do it.


No, the car phones, the people that have, like, mounted in the car that were literally like four dollars and eighty cents a minute. You know, if you went to touch it, be like, don't touch that, it's four dollars, why do you have it in your car? If it comes off the hook, they start charging me. Stop it.


Why do you have it in your car? Like what emergency could possibly happen that you don't want to? So anyway, this is a Sunday afternoon, a nice it's a late September, but it's it's warm. It's a warm late September. So any time back east or in the Midwest, when you get kind of that late summer, you know, early fall, nice weather, people are just there outside soaking it in because they know, especially in central Illinois, you know, that's not going to last.


This is the last of it. Yes. And it's going to change like that. And it's going to be windy and cold and shitty and it's not going to be anything like this very soon. So it's Lake Shelbyville here nearby Lake Shelbyville, about three thirty pm. OK, nice people are out. Nice people are out fishing. They're just fishing. A man and his wife. Yeah. And just just hanging out fishing it is. Who is it here.


Seabaugh is his name and his wife Cheri. So his last name is Seabaugh and his wife Cheri are out fishing in a boat. The it's like a small lake. Very, very nice, idyllic getting that last that last thing in here. It's near Findlay Marina, just off of Findlay Marina. They see near the shore and about two inches of water. They see a gray plastic trash bag over there. Yeah, that looks kind of weird. I hope the motorists get the fuck out of here.


Yeah, they go. Let's go look at it. All right. You go and look at anything in a plastic trash bag in a fucking lake that you find floating.


Whatever's in there is now yours. I'm not responsible for that. I don't want to know about it. Nothing. So instead they go over and take a peek at it here for some reason. And Sherry calls the sheriff's department when you know where they all go back to where the bag first was. That's about one mile from the coal shaft bridge and about three quarters of a mile from the. Finley Marina, if you are from that area, so Jeff Thomas, the chief deputy with the county sheriff's department here, meets Tracy and Sheri Seabaugh, the the Fisher people here, the area where the plastic bag was found was difficult to get to without a boat, has a lot of, you know, grown in and shit.


So that time of year, too, everything is grown in from the summer. There's no trail. You're not getting through that shit printer. Bush, the Marines, everything's big.


It's beautiful.


It's it's. Yeah, it's gorgeous. It's a nice time of year there. So they see really had to get there with a boat and there was no footprint seen on the shoreline. So they think that this anything here had to kind of either wash up over here or be taken by boat. No. Want them in the water somewhere else. Yeah. Nobody just walked out there and put it in. Two inches of water walked away. So Deputy Thomas here, he cuts into the plastic bag and discovers a human head.


Yeah, of course. Just a severed head in a bag.


That's why.


Just the head, huh? Just ahead in the bag, like like there's a bowling ball in there just double wrapped in gray plastic trash bag with duct tape around it. So, like, it's a well, it's circular.


Anybody want to guess what it is?


That's probably right. And it's floating and it's washed up on shore. And it looks like someone threw it out on purpose and duct taped it up on.


I guess nobody nobody throws the basketball away like this.


Nope. And the the woman who found it, Sherry Seabaugh, said it. It felt like a head when they went up and, like, pushed on it. They're like that feels like a had let's call the cops.


She's by the way, that woman she feels like. Yeah, I'm not poking and prodding either. Nope. Crazy. So but they do so thankfully for this person's family they do because now they're found. But he cuts in, discovers a human head. He says he doesn't touch the head, nor does he remove it from the back, cuts it open season. It's a hat goes holy shit. This is evidence obviously of something. Holy shit. This for a corner.


Yeah. Puts it. He calls the coroner immediately and crime scene and all that shit people the techs come and it's overrun immediately. You find a head that tends to bring the attention out. It's a problem if you find a whole body. It's a lot of attention. But if it's a head, people are like, holy shit.


Seems like you should be more attention because, yeah, I find the rest.


We got a we have to find the rest and be whoever killed this person took their fucking head off. That's pretty dangerous. This wasn't a wasn't an accident. You know, this was this wasn't a suicide. They couldn't have cut their head off, wrapped it twice in a plastic bag and then duct tape. That would have been really difficult. So Deputy Thomas gets the coroner there. Everybody arrives about forty five minutes later, turns into a mob scene down there.


Officer Joe Siefer, men who will come back into the story a bunch of times. He was called out there where he was met by Deputy Thomas. They processed the scene and the head is transferred to the local funeral home where it's kept in the embalming room. Yeah, I just didn't know if you find a had and not the rest of shit, where does the head go? That's where it goes to a funeral home where they keep it in the embalming room because they have one that doesn't just go to like the evidence locker at the police.


That's a good place for it to be.


I was seriously wondering where it is. Do you just put it in a morgue drawer by itself? Just that's what you do. Yeah. What do you do with a head? So there you go. So if you work in a funeral home, you might get a head coming in one of these days just oh, we got this. Be careful. We will find the rest. We'll find it.


Don't worry. We'll put it back together again here. So Cimperman observed cinders and vegetation stuck in the hair. Oh, so Kallu, that's. Yeah. So he takes these items out with a, you know, tweezer and put some places. I mean when evidence bag sure seems like that makes sense. The head, like I said, was in two plastic bags. The outer bag was closed with duct tape and the inner bag was tied by a knot.


So very on purpose. Now, Greg Rowe, I know that's hilarious because that's that guy's name. And Stevie that's the guy who Stevie the documentary that's I believe that is the lead. I run the Aryan Brotherhood around here. I believe that his name is Gregory. I'm almost positive it is. And this is literally the same area that is literally central Illinois. That's fucking funny. I wanted to be him. I do, too. But I don't think it is because this is literally the same time Stevie was being filmed.


So I don't think he was a conservation police officer at that point. If he was, God help everybody there because, wow, what a psychopath. So he participated in a search of the lake that took place the next day. On Monday morning, RO finds a bag floating near the shore in a cove northeast of Finley Marina. He doesn't touch the bag, but he call state police investigators. The bag contains two hands. OK, just two hands.


We're getting there. But you're fast enough.


No, I had in two hands is like two discoveries, not even half a body. That's now horrible. That's like how Russian mobsters kill people and try to ID the member in the. Did he ever had you put those hands and then the body is somewhere else? Yeah, usually, but not here. There's other stuff here, so that is hands on. It is not mine then. It's not then it's not us. Yeah. So the sheriff, County Sheriff Kendel and another county sheriff here from another county ended up finding a plastic bag near the near against a tree trunk near the East Shore, about one mile north of Findlay Bridge.


This bag contained the right chest area and a right upper arm. Oh, my God, that's so much suctioning. This is this is fucking bad, man. This is rough. Yeah, this is they searched more people. They kept searching the East Shore where the bags were found. They walked north of that area and discovered another bag. This was I'm sorry, they found a body part that's not in a bag and they find a left thigh that was outside a plastic bag.


So they got stuck there.


Or is it just no bag? Just no back the body just just a left thigh laying on the shore by the shore. So they continue north because that seems to be the trail of of you have to follow a trail of body parts knowing and this is the fucked up part as you're doing this year. I'm sure if you're an investigator, you're hoping you find more. But at the same time, as a human, you're like, Jesus Christ, I hope you don't fly anymore.


I don't want to see more of this. But, you know, you're going to find more as you're going like, you know, there's more this is clearly where the body was left.


And at first it's like every trash bag you see, you're like, fuck, I got to do it again. And then the wild card, no trash bag, surprised at the thigh, justify just the filing there.


They continued north and found another plastic bag. This containing two feet, just two feet. We're almost done. Yeah, this is this is fucked up, man. So a crime scene tech with the Illinois State Police collected the plastic bags here and turned them over to the coroner. The officer also looked around the bridge, Findlay Bridge, Findlay Bridge. It is to find anything suspicious. He found what appeared to be blood on the north rail of the Findlay Bridge.


He collected the evidence with the cotton swab and all that. He also noticed a white mark and a reddish brown stain near the area of the bloodstain. So they said there was a possibility that was made by a car, though that's why he was collecting it. They didn't know, but they're collecting everything here, so. Wow. Yeah, that's that's crazy. That's Sherry Seabaugh said. I thought I felt a human head inside. That was her quote to the newspaper, Jesus Christ.


So HUF man. So let's examine this. It's a young female. That's what they can tell. It's the same person, the same person. Think young female. She's been shot seven times in the head with a small caliber rounds too much and dismembered, obviously, to do that. Yeah. Does this membered with some kind of power saw? They believe that seems to be a popular choice for the dismemberment class, you know, whenever we're talking about this shit.


So a pathologist that performed the autopsy here through dental records, they identify who it is. It's a twenty three year old local woman named Karen Slover. And she is we'll talk about her in a minute. She's a mother of a three year old boy now, and we'll talk all about her. So somebody was really, really intent on making her disappear clearly because they're mad at her, very mad at her and very much not wanting her to get found, at least in a hole.


So he conducts the autopsy. This guy, he identified seven gunshot wounds to the head as the cause of death. Six, it was one to the back of the head and then six on the left side of the head.


So she went down and she was clearly laying on her right back of the head falls down, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.


Just fucking this guy so much. That's a lot. That's a lot. And also, all the gunshots were from inches away, really. So this wasn't like, yeah, this this is all very calculated. This sounds like a Russian mob hit. Well, you'd say, why would a central Illinois, you know. Twenty three year old mother of three or mother of a three year old who works at a newspaper be the subject of a mob hit and it turns out she's not.


But this is this is fucking bad, man. So, yeah, they the they brought a fire arms expert and he examined the bullet and bullet fragments in the case. Most of the fragments were too damaged for identification. At least four of the pieces were fired from a twenty two caliber weapon here. The murder weapon could have been a 22 caliber rifle or a semiautomatic pistol or a revolver. They didn't knock. So I to a long rifle range.


Yeah, it's a 22 caliber deal here. The bullets could not have come from a twenty five automatic. They ruled that out. OK, so several pieces of evidence were collected here, including a partial pant leg from a jean, plastic bags, socks from the feet. The feet had socks on them, which is a strange thing to cut the feet off and leave the socks on is that almost seems like a staging of some kind, you know.


Yeah, like from a profile point of view, duct tape used to close the bag, obviously the belt and jeans from the waist area of the body and some red underwear because they ended up finding most of every all the rest of her later on. Here inside, one of the bags that contain the hands and forearms of Karen, they also found a piece of broken concrete, obviously used to weight down its weight down. Another piece of concrete was found in the bag containing the right shoulder area of the victim, too.


So they found that. And there's also a partial white sleeve found in this bag. But they said the problem with the if you're going to weigh it, if you're going to weigh a body down with concrete, you have to you can't. The gases will build up and it'll float back up to the top. Right. That's why they stabbed bodies before they dumped them. OK, they fucking. Yeah, yeah. If you're like mob guys who doucet's know, they have to fuckin stab the shit out of a body before they dump it in the river or else it's just going to float.


So that's one of those weird things. I don't know if I should tell people that probably if you didn't know that already. Now do you know too much Jimi. Yeah. Let's see here. Pictures of the hands show that some of the fingernails were longer than others and some appeared to have substances under the fingernails. The police decided against taking fingernail scrapings, though, because they say it does not seem like there was any kind of struggle based on the body, based on there's no bruising, there's no scratch, there's no like things like that.


Who gives a shit you scrape anyway? I agree with you for the photo.


It looks like it doesn't look like it.


Well, let's not clog up the lab like we found this. We found her in pieces. Let's clog up the lab for this one, OK? Yeah. The hands did not show any signs of injury, indicating that there was no struggle. And he also said that he would not expect blood spatter to occur as the body was being cut because blood stops flowing after death and coagulates within five to ten minutes. Now, here's something that's a little this is a little sensitive here in rough sand was found inside of her vagina area there.


Larry Murphy, the the guy who examined her, explained that prior to rigor mortis setting in the muscles of the body would relax. And this could explain how some of the sand could get in there. They said the sand entered prior to rigor mortis and that was trapped inside as it expanded in water because they said she had a tampon as well. So that would be down now. So there that's becomes important later when there's a scientific battle over this. So they said the there's also some skin irregularity on the bridge of the nose, which could have been a result of some trauma prior to the death.


Irregularities around the eyes look like they were from after death. And two areas of discoloration behind the ear on the right mandible could indicate bruising and could be pre trauma death. They don't they're not sure. So the doctor said he believed it was a short time between death and dismemberment, anywhere from minutes to hours, but not days. Basically, he said it was apparent that she died minutes after being shot, though, so the gunshot wounds did it.


And they indicate that she was shot at a downward angle of about thirty to forty five degrees because they got real, real scientific. Yeah. So, yeah, there's that. And investigation, obviously, they want to know what the fuck's going on here. This is, you know, young mothers getting dismembered and thrown in the lake. It's not good for overall seems bad for morale of everybody, you know, especially for the what was it the qualified, caring leaders.


Do you think they're the ones are like, we got to figure this shit out now. I don't give a fuck.


Figure it also bad for the for the promo, for the feud and hillbillies in the concert. Yeah. He's coming up. Yeah, that's true. They're like, jeez, it's going to affect our ticket sales, but there's a madman on the loose more than our terrible name. It's really going to hurt it. So they the police say we're trying to go back and reconstruct what took place in her life over the last few days to see if we can rule out people we don't need to be looking at.


It makes sense. So it's like we said, Karen Hearn Slover is her name. She's a Slover is her married name. Hurn is her maiden name.


The town freaks the fuck out is to put it mildly. They as you saw the reviews, this is a place that's a quiet family, nothing going on after ten. This shit is not cool at all. Doesn't happen here. No. So they have to put a big thing out in the paper saying though the police believe her murder was not a random act of violence, they there's a whole bunch of things that it would, you know, be normal to fear for your safety right now.


And there's a whole list of, you know, whether you're in a car or walking, it's important to look around and be aware of who's around and what's going on, literally with the paper that should calm you down in terms of like this was obviously somebody that was near and dear to her, you know, somebody familiar with her.


That's even more scary because, yeah, somebody didn't know that this person was like this.


Obviously, somebody is blending in. Right? I'm terrified. Somebody is blending. That is fucking scary, so, yeah, that's what they're telling us to do here. You have to protect yourself if you have concerns about a situation. Don't put yourself in harm's way. Well, no shit. Yeah. Now, she works for the Herald and Review newspaper indicated, and they put up a 10000 dollar reward for any information on her up there. Yeah, she's apparently very beloved here.


She works as an advertising consultant there.


And she's worked there for a while and the cops are really looking for her. They said there's a task force of eight officers from five different law enforcement agencies, and they said it was not a random act of violence. That was a panel to decide whether it was a random act of violence or not. They literally had a panel quote, This panel through our discussion, believes that this is not something the general public has to fear at this time. Well, thanks.


I had a meeting about it. Yeah, the public should certainly be cautious, but we don't believe this is someone who just randomly selected her. Well, that's terrific. Good to good to fuckin hear. They're now a coworker here because they talk to the coworkers. Obviously, they they said that, quote, I find it behind beyond comprehension why someone would do this. It's a very, very sad day. We will walk through this together. We just have to have to take this one hour at a time.


She was a very outgoing, very personable, very cheery person, said the editor of the paper. You couldn't help but get to know her and like her. That's what she was all about. She was supposed to show up to pick her son up from her in-laws house after work and never showed up. Yeah, that's how it works. The police say there was two or three suspects or possible suspects or leads of people that they have contact with, that she's had contact with and that they want to take polygraphs.


So they're kind of calling people on the carpet here. We got about three people running. Imagine if you're knowing her. You're like, am I one of those people? Fuck, right? I want to take a polygraph. So they're looking at men who she's had relationships with or associations with her. Generally, if she has a feud with a woman at work, they're not going to cut her body into 14 pieces and put her in the lake.


Only a man wants to fuck her is going to do that.


Yeah, you go off the I suppose it's right out of the gate, obviously. And then when that starts thinning out, then I guess you go to the ladies.


I guess so. Yeah. You're going to you're definitely going to look for a spurned lover of some kind or something like that.


First, though, I love them. They're like nobody. Nobody didn't like her.


She was amazing. Everybody loved her. OK, somebody didn't. You you dummy.


What? Kennedy put her head into two plastic bags. Somebody that fucking adored her did this to her, is that what you're saying?


Well, O.J. did say he loved Nicole very, very much. He said if I had done it, it would have only been because I loved her very, very much. That's literally what he said. So sick fucks apparently think that's a valid reason to kill somebody. I loved her so much. I figured, you know, if anyone had a right to kill her, it was me because I loved her so much. You know, she's this ridiculous protecting her from all the monsters out there.


Someone else was going to do it and they wouldn't have been as caring as me. So they said no one has been ruled out as a suspect. At this point. Everyone is a suspect. We haven't had time to rule anyone out. Everything is so fresh. We've been going 80 miles per hour on this all day. So they're ready to go here. They don't think it's connected to another case is the press is really asking if they think it's connected to another case in Champagne County, where a man posing as a sheriff's deputy attacked a woman.


Oh, my God. In that case, he was wearing a uniform and driving a car with flashing red lights on it and stopped a woman in the morning of September 22nd and sexually assaulted her.


So that might be the worst person on earth. The person that does that, that's that's a very, very, very scary person. That's a very scary person.


That person is the scum of the earth. That person.


Yeah, that's bad shit right there. So in that case, yeah, there they they don't think it's connected to that. They're saying because they they're only saying that because they they found her car on the side of the road like pulled over. So they were like, well that's interesting. So the press jumped to that conclusion, but they didn't think so. They said that would be a pretty quick progression in a week from a sexual assault and letting the woman go to literally dismembering somebody and wrapping them meticulously and throwing them in a fucking pond.


It's a different thing. So taking them apart. Yes, exactly. So that's that's. Yeah. With a power saw. So let's talk about the people here. Let's talk about Karen and find out what's up with her life here. Karen Hearn is her name, Karen Hearns. Her maiden name, Karen Hearn Slover. And she goes by Karen Slover because she marries a man named Michael Slover, junior and Junior. Here they marry on January 2nd.


Nineteen ninety three. Karen was pregnant with a little boy. They got married. Yeah, right. You've been there and done that. And there is fuck. And so, yeah, they have a son a little later on in nineteen ninety three named Colton called TVM and he picked a very creative way to spell it. And May nineteen ninety six they get a divorce. So that marriage it was a pretty quick marriage and it was a pretty rocky marriage and it ended.


I mean that's pretty fast. Obviously, three years and a baby later, and it's over, it's over, so September. I mean, that's that's when they officially got a divorce. So, I mean, it was over longer before that.


So September 27, let's go back because they remember the Fisher people found her on Monday and on Sunday the 29th. This is Friday the 27th. Let's go back to Karen Slover and her boyfriend, David Suan, with two N's. He and they wake up in the morning. They were sleeping in the same place as well, you know, stayed in the same place. They got up. They both took a shower. They've been dating for about a month.


And someone's got a background to him. He'd been previously convicted of a felony and they believe it's aggravated battery. Was he was convicted of and he ended up that morning driving his company car to work. And Karen took his car to work, so she borrowed his car.


OK, there's a black a 1992 black Pontiac Bonneville with the license plate C a D. S seven cabs, seven custom plate. Yeah, I think it's a custom plate, but I don't know what the hell that means.


I don't get it either. That might be the ones that would drive you bananas here.


What probably stands for something. It's probably he only knows the fuck he's talking about. So those are really annoying. If you're like what are you doing?


If you don't see it, you don't see your plate to get satisfaction out of it because you're driving around annoying everybody.




You just being a dick, it's all of this. Nothing. I just have a date to be seventy four to just like everybody cares. Yeah. Doesn't matter.


I don't get the personalized plate. I don't get it. Relax, calm down. I mean you're not. What do you care. Right. It's a goddamn license plate.


So she, she, she leaves in that car, she stops by her father's home around eight thirty. He's got a home based office and she's on her way to a sales meeting in Springfield. So that's the papers indicator. But she's got a sales meeting in Springfield. She stays there for about 45 minutes to an hour at her dad's place. She was wearing blue jeans and a white blouse, which are, you know, partial. Part of that outfit is found later on.


Found some of that. Yeah. She ends up going to work at the Herald and Review newspaper, 611 East William Street in Decatur. She's, like we said, an advertising consultant, David Swane. Her boyfriend sees her again around one twenty pm in the Herald and Review parking lot. Swane that night was going to a dress rehearsal for our wedding dress rehearsal, whatever the fuck, dress rehearsals for a show. Just a rehearsal, the wedding rehearsal.


He's going to rehearsal dinner, they call it. What the fuck? I don't know. So he's going to watch people rehearsal, wedding. It's the worst part of the wedding. It's really stupid because everyone's in jeans and you're like, this is silly. What are we? Right.


This is just to appease the bride to let her know we got it. Honey, don't worry. It'll be marry. Everyone knows which direction to walk down the aisle we got. We know what to order. I know I have to walk with her. She's an asshole, but I'll do it for you.


But then again, if it was up to us, yeah. We would be picking flowers like as we were going, we're like just grab some out of the the hotels.


Got to put them out on the tables like. So there's got to be a happy meal. There's going to be a right there. Glue them together. It'll be fine. There's got to be a happy medium between I don't give a shit and it has to be firebacks. There has to be something in between those two.


There's got to be a happy medium between I want everything and I don't care if that's what I need.


I want everything and I want nothing. There has to be a happy medium between there. Right. I think. But I think you've got me and Sara found it.


We just got married in the yard at a moment's notice.


The way to the happy medium there was both people want enough. That's the thing we were about. I want nothing. And I was like, I want nothing either. We were like, this is great. Nothing. I want less. I want nothing either. We were like going to go out to dinner with the family or something. We were like, we don't even want to do that. You don't want to do that. I don't want to do that either.


Awesome. Let's get married. We are like we just have a few people over and you're like, do we have to have them over?


Yeah. How many people are we talking? So we cook Jesus Christ. And I did so Sochi. We all cooked and you did too. So they he was going there and Karen was going to pick up her son, which is all her and Michael Junior son Colton, and then go shopping for a dress to wear to the wedding. That's because she's going to go with him to the wedding. But not the wedding. Not the rehearsal. So back at work here, after they met in the parking lot, Alan Tapley is a guy's name.


He owns Paris World. What does that one, I guess, what Paris world is. So, yeah, they sell shit the baguettes.


He's the world's leading beer distributor. Jimmy, it's it's amazing. Just mixed bag. Mattson calls it a terrorist work. No, he he actually runs a Savannah, Georgia, modeling agency. Oh, so, yeah, that sounds whatever crazy, though it would seek applicants through newspaper ads and then sign models and put their photos on the Internet under the very, you know, whatever, and maybe get them some work. So Karen had sent in an application and she's she's a pretty, very pretty girl.


She's blond and pretty and, you know, smile model. Yes. A very photogenic body. And she sent in an application and signed on with Paris World in July of that month, but hadn't gotten any jobs or anything like that. She just, like, filled out the paperwork and, you know, said put me on the roster kind of a thing. So he indicated, though, that he found a job for Karen and called her office phone to tell her about it.


He found a job for her. So Karen ends up sending ninety two dollars along with a signed contract in for the job. Never trust any modeling place that wants you to pay money. First of rights, if they tell you, go get headshots or go get professional pictures taken. But they're not going to tell you like go to this person and give them money. They just say, yep, then it's fine, it's fine. But if they say give me money, then it's not a that's not a reputable place.


I found a job for you, James. It's a nine to five. It's like working for a temp agency. And they're like, this week you're going to work nine to five down the newspaper. You need to pay me two fifty.


What? I didn't make any money.


I'm still here. Are you talking about the front? So sign contract. The amount did not include a 10 percent discount that would be offered to models who with whom passerelle had already secured work. So she should have got 10 percent off, should have been nine bucks less. He said that the work he had for her would be only temporary anywhere from one day to a month. That's what the call was about. So now Swan had to go. This is, I believe, around lunchtime, little after lunch after they met in the parking lot.


And shit, this is when she goes right after she gets the call, she goes to drop off ninety two dollars in a signed contract in the mail. So someone had to go to Cerro Gordo, which is a town, and Karen went with him. They stopped by Karen's apartment to get some pictures to mail along with the contract, and then at three fifteen went to the post office and mailed the contract off to Paris world. So that's how that works.


Coworker of hers, Christine Quinn, says she says that Karen got a phone call later on in the day and she said that she appeared shaken after getting the phone call, said she was in a really good mood between 2:00 and 3:00 p.m. and then, you know, she wasn't in such a good mood after that. She said they went on a break at work. She's been back and forth from work a shitload of times today. It's awesome. This is a great job.


I mean, she does a great job. Sweet. Go around to another town mail. Shit, this is awesome. And they still say what a great worker she is. Like, she must be awesome. Must be awesome at her job. Like, that's good for her.


So there are two hours to do what everybody else does. An eight.


That's what I mean. She's fucking awesome at it I guess because they still love her. So as she as they return to work from a break, her phone rang and she, though her friend, heard Karen telling the person about the modeling job, at which point she, her friend, returned to her desk. She said she could see Karen's face changed during the phone call. She looked like she was scared and started to shake. Karen then walked by her friend's desk and mouthed the word Mike to her.


So Mike is Michael Slover Jun, her ex-husband. So that's how that went on to her friend, said her eyes got really big. She looked scared. She was drained. She got wiped. That's what she said. Then she said she quote, she walked away. And that was the last time I ever saw her. So that was that. So yeah. David Swan receives a phone call from Karen at about four fifty p.m. to ten to five.


Karen said she's going to pick up Colton. I'm going to go shopping. The Swan said he's with a friend of his and put her on, put Karen on speakerphone and they were talking to her swan here. Her boyfriend asked Karen to get him some hair gel while she's out shopping. Yeah, pick me up so it looks like you got it, got to get to get the get the mega hold yet the five, the blitz, the silk, Karen calls her mom right after that, about five pm to tell her that she's going to pick up Colton and then go to the mall.


So that's clearly the plan. She's telling multiple people that. So another woman, Athena Rich, worked at the Herald and Review as a sales rep. She saw Karen in the lunchroom at about 5:00 p.m. and asked if she wants to come out for four drinks with the paper crew at the Lock, Stock and Barrel Tavern.


So that's where that was the thing. That's where they're going. Work party. We're going to have a drink.


What a fucking nightmare. Hey, I know we've all seen each other all day and been forced to. You want to spend more time together but not get paid for it. Yeah, free offset.


In fact, it won't be free.


It's going to cost you money because my drinks tell you what, send in ninety two dollars in the contract and we'll all go get some drinks tonight then lock, stock and barrel. So Karen said she couldn't because she had to pick up Caulton and then go shopping so I can't do it. So five or five p.m. she leaves the office and according to everybody's you know, but she's talked to, she's on her way to Mount Zion, to her in-laws house to pick up her three year old son, Colton.


So this Clover's Michael Senior and the mother and father, they watch Colton during the day, which is actually in the divorce agreement, which is a an odd they said it's an odd addition to it. But in the actual agreement, it was an uncontested divorce. But in the actual agreement, it says that Janet watches the kids until five o'clock every day and blah, blah, blah.


So one way to keep from having to have a discussion with somebody is just put it in there and then, you know, yeah, talk about it. It's done. It's a we are over there. You have you have custody.


Yeah. But that was I guess that was the his doing. He wanted the baby. He wanted the kid to be watched by his parents during the day for some. I don't know why, but that's what she that's what they wanted. So David Swan returns home after the wedding rehearsal. You know, it's his hairs. We don't know if it's just been held up or not. We have no idea. He discovers that Karen hadn't come to the house.


So I yelled, where the fuck? Yeah, where's my fucking jail? He's got he's got non shiny hair. That's going to definitely be it's going to be a problem. If it's windy out, it's never going to stay in place. It is dry. I need help. It's all dry.


It's not fallen. Right. It's a ninety six, two week. And I had like a spiky look. He could have had like the who knows what was going on with his had a good time.


Yeah. I mean he could add something else that's booming in ninety six.


It's a good jelks. Good time for. I'll tell you what boy. Ninety six is prime jail time. You get yourself a CEO at a big ol halah big ol house right next door to the Drakkar Noir CEO. And they just together they just ruined everybody's whole head.


Sunhill figure Ralph Lauren. Well, crushing it on the same street.


Hey, everybody.


Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about simply safe and police. Safe dotcom scmp implies safe dotcom.


That's right. And everybody wants their home and family to be safe supposedly this time of year. Yeah. Nobody's like don't know. Now people can come in and steal what they want, you know, and they can, you know, take my children, sell them in the black market.


Who cares what I'm finding this Xbox. No one's saying that now everyone wants to protect their children, whether it's from a break in their family, their home, a break in a fire, flooding medical emergencies even and simply safe home security delivers award winning twenty four seven protection with simply say it's not just an arsenal of cameras and sensors, which is great. Don't get me wrong, that's wonderful. But you also get the best professional monitors in the business, isn't that.


Yeah. What's the point of having cameras to go. Oh that happened before and now I have footage of it. Great. How about stopping it while it's going on. Yeah.


And that's what they do here. They've got your back day and night ready to send emergency responders when you need them most. Right. When you need them and the most straight to your door.


Simply safe is fantastic. It's so easy to install. We've both installed simply safe in our house in like maybe a half hour. Yeah. Stick the sensors up. It's so easy. No drywall. No, you don't need to charge your drill, everybody. It's going to be as simple as sitting in the attic to run wires. No, you're not getting people over your house going, yeah, you know what? Here what if we just take this door off?


Yeah. Now I'm going to take the all the molding off of your door here. Let's do that and then we'll we'll unhinge this window.


No, stop. Bolted right to the crown molding. It's going to be beautiful. Yeah I know. It's been there since nineteen twenty three but I think if we just bought it it's going to be fun. That's not going to happen. I would simply say if you do it yourself, you do it so easily and so nicely and it's not intrusive at all. It's wonderful. Great camera footage to get. The footage is really high quality. You can simply save up yourself super easy.


Thirty minutes and then simply safety professionals take over monitoring your home 24/7. Ready to send the help? The moment there's an alarm, plus there's no long term contract, no hidden fees, no installation fees, right now our listeners get a free home security camera. When you purchase a simply safe system that's simply safe dotcoms small, you'll also get a 60 day risk free trial. So there's nothing to lose here. Nothing whatsoever. Visits simply safe, dotcom, small for your free security camera today.


That's simply safe. That's simply safe.


Dotcom, small. Now back to the show.


Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about better help, better help Dotcom. Now, if you're having trouble, let's say, meeting your goals or difficulty with relationships or trouble sleeping or you're feeling stressed or depressed or really anything that a human would feel over the last year of being alive, better help is available, better help offer secure online professional counselors who can listen and help. And we absolutely advocate for getting yourself some help if you need some help, because it helps.


Let's just put it that way. We've all had personal experience with it. And it's it's really there's no reason not to do it. If you're feeling a certain way, don't do shamed of it. Don't do any of that. Get out there, get some help. Call better help get on.


Better help dotcom. Better help dotcom and talk about it a little bit will make you feel better. That's how it works here. It's simply just fill out a questionnaire to help assess your specific needs and better help will match you with your own licensed professional therapist. You start communicating in under 48 hours. You can log into your account any time, send unlimited messages to your counselor. You can schedule weekly video or phone sessions and everything you share is confidential.


Of course, better help. Counselors have a broad range of expertize, including some specialties that might not be available in your in your area. Otherwise, for clients worldwide, it's easy and free to change counselors. If you need totally free, they'll just if you're not feeling somebody, you get somebody else. This is a more affordable option than traditional offline counseling and financial aid is even available. So many people have been using better help that they're recruiting additional counselors in all 50 states.


And like we said, do this. It's good for you. If you need to talk to someone, talk to someone better safe than sorry. What's it going to hurt to talk to somebody? It could hurt a lot more to not talk to somebody. So get it all out of their small town. Murder is sponsored by Better Help and our listeners get ten percent off their first month of online therapy when they visit. Better help dotcom, small town murder visit, better help dotcom, small town murder and join the over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced, better health professional.


And now back to the show.


So Tommy Hilfiger opened his mouth and it all went south, huh? That'll happen there. So, Swan here. This is fucking wild. Hare Swan calls Donna Hearn, who is who is Karen's mom, between nine thirty and nine forty five, saying that Karen didn't come home. He said he was concerned that Karen had not dropped off some hair gel she was supposed to buy at the mall and thought that was that was odd of her. And she's like, well, you know, what the fuck's up with that?


Like, you know, that's a weird thing. Have you heard from her? And imagine if he was like, where's my goddamn jell? I don't think that's what it was. I think it was like she was supposed to drop off. She didn't. So I don't know, like, you see. Right. I think that's kind of what she was getting at. But would it be hilarious if he called the mom like. Fucking Joe. So, Donna, Donna here got our day, I'm sorry, the boyfriend Swanned David Suan, was concerned about the Hjelle.


So, Donna, the mother was not concerned when she initially informed. She was initially informed. Karen didn't come home because she said Karen's very active social life. She knows everybody. And it's not unusual for her to not be where she said she was going to be. Basically, she might have stopped here and talked to this person and she'll be there a little later. And, you know, she's 23 and pretty. She's got a lot of a lot of people want to talk to her.


That's just how it works out. She's got a lot of friends and, you know, whatever.


So still people on a personal level and then random people, random people, workpeople, everybody likes her.


She's a likable person. So she's got a lot of social and good for her, you know. So nine fifty seven p.m. here, the car that Karen was driving in, ninety two Pontiac Bonneville is found on the interstate on Interstate 72. It's running and the driver's side door is open, which is an odd, not normal. That's strange. That's why the press immediately tied that together with the man who pulled people over with the fake police car there.


So David Swane was called by police to be notified because it's his car they look through and that's her purse is in the car. Personal effects are in the car. So they find the registration seats. David Swane, they call him up and tell him that they found his car and the motor running and no driver in it. That's that's yeah. That's bad. He said, well, my girlfriend had the car and she should be in it. She, you know, shouldn't be on the side of the road running.


So after receiving two phone calls from David Swan, Larry Hurn, her father called Jeannette Slover, the mother in law, who's watching Kolten to tell her that Karen and Colton were missing. But Janet said that Colton was with her. Karen never picked Colton up. So Colton is not missing. If Karen's missing, that's one. But so obviously that's, you know, scary but a relief that the kid's not missing too, obviously. So the Hearn's the Karen's parents go to where the car was found.


And there's also up there's a police dog on the scene and all that sort of shit. Prior to this trip, around ten thirty PM Larry Hurn received a call from Michael Slover Junior that lasted about one minute. And Hurn didn't remember the call, but their records show that the call was made. So in the in the craziness of all, we have to go there where our daughter's missing. They didn't remember this call. So phone records show that at 10:00 or 2:00 p.m., a call was placed from the residence of David Swan to Larry Hurn that lasted forty nine seconds.


And then Suan called Larry Hurn again at ten or nine and that lasted 48 seconds.


This is the best he's. So what's the word.


He's just very good at making phone calls. He's very succinct, just very good at making phone calls. The guy's got seconds to get whatever it is office just fingers hang it up. He's very succinct. He gets everything out. And one one five, he's very good at phone calls. I got people that call me and I'm eight minutes in and I'm like, why the fuck are you calling me?


That's yeah. Not 48 seconds. He's a good friend, this guy. Boy, he's good. Probably more respectful of your time. He's only been going out with her a month and all of these calling's back and forth and he'll talk to the police extra later, gets the police suspicious that he's inserting himself into the investigation, which is one of the first things they look for, even with an efficient phone call.


Yeah, they're like he was efficient, but he still was talking about it. So and then Anjanette Slover, Micheal's Junior's mom, receives a phone call from Karen's father saying that the car had been found on the interstate and Karen is indeed missing. That was after the kid call. So Janette called Michael Jr. at work. He's a bouncer at a bar at night and told him that Karen was missing. So approximately ten, fifteen p.m., Sherri Chandler answered the phone at the bar she works at.


And the person said, this is you know, this is Jeanette, Mike's mother. Can you talk to him? It's all right. I need to talk to him. It's urgent. Junior takes the cordless phone outside the front door and they talk that he remained outside for forty five minutes with the phone, which it's a business. Bring the phone back when you're done. So, yeah, anyway, it's a long call, but I short let some more than four.


She's not as efficient as David Swane know. Took her forty five minutes to get that out. Shortly after 11:00 Junior went back. I went to the back room of the bar. They said his eyes were red and the bartender asked him what was wrong. And he told her that his mother told her that Karen's car had been found on the highway and her purse was in the car, but she wasn't. So she said that this is the woman running the bar.


She said she gave him time to gather himself, but didn't let him leave because she had no one else to cover the front door.


The mother of my three year old has just disappeared, her car's running, it's very suspicious circumstances. We're worried for her safety. Well, I got to check IDs. I'm sorry. I don't know what you couldn't deputize. One of the patrons that, you know, comes in in two hours. So I don't know what to tell you, sir. Couldn't grab someone off the floor and throw 50 in their pocket to stand there for a while. You guys.


Sorry, asshole. That's fucking hilarious. So, wow, he went back to work and stood at the door.


I got to check I.D. plus a sobbing bouncer. Isn't exactly that intimidating? No, it's true. You have to leave. Sarah. Sorry, we can't serve you anymore. Fuck you.


Come on. So at ten thirty pm, Gary Schaefer, the chief of police for Cerro Gordo, went to Ronnie's Tavern where Junior worked, saw Junior sitting inside the door. Junior told Schaefer that his ex-wife was missing and her car had been found on the interstate. Junior was aware that this guy was a police officer. He remained at the front door until one fifty five a.m. when that place closed. Jesus Christ.


Now, I'm sorry. Someone can come in. It's one forty five inclosing. Yeah, that's amazing. Then he received a phone call from a male. He had about a ten minute conversation within eight feet of the bartender. Chandler Junior left about two minutes after the conversation was over and his car was at the same place when same place it was when he arrived. So he left but didn't take his car. It still was there. So another waitress, Lisa Carnahan, at Ronni's, started work at eight o'clock and she said shortly after 10:00, Carnahan worked the door while Junior took a phone call she couldn't fucking fill in the rest of the time.


What is happening in this place? He seemed upset and had been crying and all that sort of thing. She said she worked the door four or five times that night and never noticed a difference in his clothing or appearance.


Besides the time that he was crying, his girlfriend, I don't know where he was sobbing uncontrollably. He was normal except for sobbing. If you have ever seen a grown man cry in a public place just like that, look normal, you know, otherwise normal, completely.


Slover Junior's girlfriend, Trina Gifford, she says that Junior got home around three a.m., so he left at one fifty five, gets home at three a.m. What's he doing? There's nothing to do past 10:00. We've already covered that. Why do you think I picked those fucking reviews to say so? We know there's nothing to do past.


What's he doing with two minutes of driving around? I don't think so. It's not that far. So Saturday, September 28th, that's when he got home that Saturday morning. She said his demeanor had changed by that time and that he was upset. He told her that Karen was missing and that she'd been notified of this fact by her family at another point. And she said that she didn't recall if Junior had heard from his mother about the disappearance or if she'd heard it from Karen's brother.


So that's a little point of contention here. So I Jer, they send a sheriff's department deputy to his house at two fifty five a.m. and inform Jur that he needed to contact an investigator with the sheriff's department because they'd like to talk to him, you know, because he's the ex-husband. He answered the door to his home. He seemed visibly upset. The sergeant thought he prepared a report that no junior appeared to be upset and crying, but he didn't think it was sincere.


So that's what he says. Now, investigation picks up here. Now, the car David Swan goes to where the car was found and was asked to look inside the car to see if he noticed anything unusual. He said the car was in disarray with several items moved from their normal place. The garage door opener was found near the driver's door, but is normally on the visor. Yeah. So, yeah, it's it's weird. I copied off the visor at all.




Why would you take it off? Unless you're changing the battery, there's no once every seven years that's in your eyes. And you. Yeah.


The goddamn thing falls off because this fucking shit never stays strong. What is she clip. You got a strong clip. Like I figure that shit out all up bastards or cars have a garage door opener for them.


Maybe, maybe they haven't built into the cars now the new ones. Yeah, but I'm real dumb. I wouldn't be able to program that shining programing.


My car opened my fucking garage door opener sucking owner's manual. What if I have to loan to give it to someone to watch my house? You know, I'll go out of town. I got the dogs. What am I supposed to know now? I'm not doing that. So kiss my ass, make a slot. I can put it in, please. Right. So the garage door openers, they're a cup. And some change were found in the passenger seat.


But the cup had been in the cup holder and the change was normally in the console. Hmm. Which is strange, but it's all there. Also, David Swan's umbrella and Karen's briefcase have been moved from the back seat to the floorboard. If she stopped short, that going happen there, they're sure. But if she stopped short, yeah, if she stopped short, it wouldn't make a cup and some change go from the console in the cup holder to the passenger seat.


That would be different. So, Cimperman, again, crime scene tech with the Illinois State Police. He's called here a little before 11:00 p.m. He takes a bunch of pictures and tows the car away. A black person, maroon planner, were taken from the passenger floorboard. Some small black rocks or cinders were removed from the driver's side floorboard. Oh, yes. Interesting. Officer Zimmerman took latent prints from the interior of the window of the driver's side of the car inside the leather business portfolio.


Zefram and found a fax cover sheet from Paris World International and a postal receipt to Paris International from Karen Slover three p.m. that's labeled. That's her sheet there. So there like there's another suspect. OK, just a specific time. Yeah, exactly a time. We know she was alive then, so she's been seen a little bit. Two witnesses said they saw a woman they identified as Karen Slover in Lovington between five thirty and six thirty pm on the night she disappeared.


Another witness reported seeing the car that she drove that day, the four door Pontiac with the CAD seven license plate, which stands out in Cerro Gordo between five forty five and six pm and Lovington and Sarah Gado are twenty miles apart. So, I mean, I guess if one was five thirty and one was six, I don't know, maybe it's possible sightings.




Right now, Lisa Kidwell, who formerly owned a restaurant Loving Tim here, she said a woman she identified as Karen's lover came in and bought an ice cream cone between five thirty and six p.m. that night. So she actually didn't just see her in a car. She sold her an ice cream cone so she'd be able to identify her. She said she remembered seeing the CAD seven license plate on the car that she was driving. So those two together, I can believe on later on she couldn't describe what she was wearing, though, what Karen was wearing, and she acknowledged that she never met her before.


And other than the plate, she said she could only recall the dark. The car was driven by a woman, by the woman. She said the car was dark colored. She couldn't remember colors of anything, but she remembered Karen Dark, which I mean, you didn't talk to the car. She talked to Karen. So some people remember that more. Sharon Nichols, she worked at the grocery store across the street from the restaurant. She says that a woman she identified as Slover bought a pack of chewing gum there between six and six thirty pm.


She also couldn't remember what she was wearing, but she identified her so right across the street same time. So that makes sense to different people. She also they also testified to seeing a greenish vehicle someone else did in Sarah Gado between five forty five and six pm. One witness couldn't see who was in the vehicle. She said she saw the car stop in the parking lot of the IGA grocery store with a short man and a short man with brown hair and a mustache got out.


Another witness, James Thayer's. He said that he was traveling on a seventy two when the night that she disappeared and he saw two cars traveling at high speed. He said it happened about 9:00 p.m. near exit one. Seventy two. He said that ah, I'm sorry, near the near exit 172. He said that the cars were almost bumper to bumper when they passed him traveling about 90 miles an hour. Wow. So they're either racing or on each other's gas or chasing or or chasing race in a chase and ask grasser fucking gas.


Gas. Sorry, that made me laugh. He remembered the letters cards from the license plate, but said the vehicle with the plate was light colored. But it's nighttime. So and if that's the lead car and it was the car behind that person at night time, that's the one that gets your attention. Well, the headlights on the back of that car, you can't tell what a color a car is at night with headlight light on it. It just doesn't it doesn't show properly.


Right. It just does not just headlights with any lights at night because they're all tired.


Some weird color. I saw some documentary about a truck that the guy got away for a long time because everybody thought he was driving a pink truck. It was fucking white.


Yeah, we're just passing by the witnesses because of the way the street lights are. Wasn't that an episode? That was one of our episodes, was it? Yeah, I think they were smelted.


I think those small town Vardaman, I think that was, you know, your job, I'm pretty sure. But I don't remember the exact thing. But I think that was vervet. There was a story I heard once about it.


I heard a story once about this murder. I doubt it had anything to do with this, I'm sure. I think that was it, because it was the the way the streetlight hit it at night. Yeah, it was what it was. Yeah, that's like I remember that. And it was one of the. Did we see that together? No, we talked about it for two and a half hours.


I don't know why I would remember this, James. It just stuck in my head about a murder somewhere. You know how it is. So somebody two cars, 90 miles an hour at the little before the time the car is discovered. That's something. Another witness, David Recorrect, he said that he saw a vehicle with the CADS license plate on 972. His sighting was around eight, 10 p.m. The it was in the eastbound rest area near Argenta.


He said he couldn't see inside the dark colored vehicle and no one got out while he was there. A coworker of hers said that she saw Karen in the parking lot of the Herald and Review leaning over and apparently talking to someone in a vehicle before she took off from the that night by five p.m., she said she couldn't say for sure when she saw near the car, but she thought it was after work. But it might have been at lunch when she was talking to David.


We don't know that for sure. Karen, start with a C, K, a, r, y and OK, so it's got a Y, you know, wasn't I'm changing my mind about cards at the moment just because it has saved and helped so much already.


That's one thing about the personalized plate, shitty stupid plate like that. People, people sit in their car and go, do you see that dumb ass plate they were driving 90 miles an hour? Who cares? What the fuck does cads mean?


Yeah, you see, it's true, man. Also, people heard some gunshots. One witness got up and took her dog for a walk, which lasted about twenty minutes. It was a quiet evening. And sometime during the walk, this witness heard several distinctive popping noises. She described them as rhythmic, just consecutive and in a rhythm. She was not familiar with the sound of a handgun, but the sound she heard were different than the sound of a shotgun during hunting season is all she knew, the ones that she hears out in the woods.


She contacted police two weeks after this lover's disappearance to report the story to them. Florence Keller lived in Cerro Gordo. There's a car wash railroad tracks in a wooded area located to the north of her house during the Jenny Jones show that she was watching.


Yeah, which aired for an hour and fifty six. Very ninety. Say this whole thing. She's all just a hair gelled up watching the Jenny Jones show. It airs immediately after the ten o'clock news. She heard four pops is what she heard. Her bedroom window is open and she said she heard the first pop and then three more consecutive pops. She said she heard the gunshots. She's heard gunshots from a 357, a twenty two and a thirty eight.


But the pop she heard that night sounded like they came from a smaller caliber gun. She has some expertize here.


That's a horrifying woman. Yeah, that's pretty cool. She's like, that's a twenty two. That's pretty bad ass.


So she's like the kids from that Keanu Reeves movie where they hear the shots and they go, nine millimeter. Yeah, she's bad ass dude.


She's watching Jenny Jones over the din of Jenny Jones. Right. She hears some pop. She's like, that's a twenty two ain't shit. And then she goes back to Jenny Jones. I like this lady. Some kids are shooting squirrels.


I thing I fucking pains in the asses. Don't shoot each other. All right. Back with Jenny Jones, bitches. Let's see her try to get some people together and feel OK.


After hearing the pop, she looked out the window and approximately 20 yards away, she saw two individuals coming through the woods on a path located along her neighbor's house. They were wearing dark clothing and walked south of the out of the wooded area toward the road. One was heavyset and the other was a little taller, about five, eight to six foot and not as heavy she was. Several days later, law enforcement interviewed her and she told them of her observations.


That's how that went. Now, the police immediately are looking at David Swane. He's only been around for a month. So if you have the two, she's known Michael Slover for years. He's never killed her. Right. Basically, she's been alive the whole time. This guy known her a month and now she's dead. So they're concerned with him. But she also has an ex boyfriend before him as well. So they're they're going to see here because she's twenty three.


She's dating, you know what I mean? So her boyfriend said they look at her, he had some, like we said, some legal problems. By the way, one of them was for impersonating a law officer, which that's not cool.


He also had a felony conviction for aggravated battery. Now, David couldn't account for his whereabouts for forty five minutes on the day of the murder, I was a 45 minute window where he can't prove where he is. He'd been late to the rehearsal dinner when they talked to everybody and he was slated to be the best man. Oh, so if the best man is late to the rehearsal dinner, there's something up there.


It was a calm down. I know what I'm doing. I stand there and look like an. Asshole trying not to lock my knees and pass out, so this part I just stand there, right? This part's kind of you guys doing everything. I don't really do anything.


Are we rehearsing a toast to me when it's my turn to pretend like I lost the ring? How's that sound? Good. Oh, the rehearsal dinner was at Tater's Family Grill.


Yeah. So, of course, that sounds good. Police interrogated him for four hours while trying to get an alibi out of him or something till he finally mentioned that he's and he went over everything again and he goes, I stopped to get money. I remember I stopped to get money. There's that. They're like, yeah, right. But then they found the bank had video footage of him getting money, nowhere near that. And on the way to his rehearsal dinner, very helpful.


His story completely checks out. He's with other people. Then he's at the ATM, then he's at the rehearsal dinner. There's no there's no in between there. So, Donna, Karen's mother said she talked to her daughter the day she disappeared about planning to pick up her son and all that. Michael Jr., they look at him now. He works. He's a cub. Foods is where he works on E Pershing Road. And after he finished, his shift is a shift as a security guard.


About 6:00 p.m., he gave a private karate lesson at a home on Tanager drive. The look on your face right now on account of private karate lesson. Is there anything Douceur than a private karate lesson? I don't know why that's douchy. If it was any other lesson, I don't know. Why would a private karate lesson just seem silly?


This is far to post Karate Kid to be still in the karate thing.


This is ninety six. Karate was like not a thing. This is weird. So after leaving there about six forty five pm, he stopped at a car accident and talked to a police officer, just stopped while there was a car accident, went up and talked to the cop.


What happened. What do you think. It's not even it's just he just talked to him just like. How's it going. Good. Yeah. How are you doing? Blah blah blah. Just to be like you see me, right? Yeah, that's what they're thinking here. Day one day, officer. You know how it works. There I was Friday night. So either way, he told he then said that he told the cops he went home for a quick shower and was at Ronnie's Lounge just after 8:00 p.m. for his job as a bouncer.


He didn't get off work there till 2:00. And we know what happened. There are coworkers, the family. He taught to karate, too, and the police officer all verified everything he said. But the woman he lived with at the time did not remember seeing him home that night around seven. So she doesn't she doesn't remember him being home, take a shower and all that. So also they the parents who had Chorlton, they look at them.


Michael Slover Jr. said he was with his girlfriend, like we said, Lisa Smothers, who was an employee at Cub Foods. She she works the time clock. I guess she's in charge of that. She said that employees would scan their time card and a computer would collect the info her job was to collect, you know, take it all, make sure the people clocked in and out correctly. And she's doing the payroll. Yeah. So she saw Junior here at Cub Foods at about four thirty pm on Friday in her office.


They spoke for about ten minutes. He forgot to clock in after his afternoon break and they come to let her know. So she fixed the problem on his time card. Right. So she just entered and manually when he came. Oh yeah. She was shown a printout of the timekeeping system for those days. And I guess he said he clocked in at twelve 09, which made him late for his shift, and he clocked out at three twenty four p.m. clock back in at three thirty nine p.m. and then he added three thirty nine.


She added the three thirty nine punch in to fix a mistake he made when he forgot to clock in after his break. So he clocked out at three twenty four p.m. and then came back much later and and didn't have clock back and forgot to clock back in. But at that time she was still at work. She was seen at work till five 05. So yeah, that doesn't work here. So she said she could vouch for his presence at three thirty nine but she could not account for his presence until four thirty when she saw him.


And she also noticed that Junior had a shoplifter in his office around 5:00 PM. So he she says that there was nothing unusual about his behavior. It was common for him to forget to clock in or out that week she made that week alone. She made corrections for him on two other days. So he's just a flake with that. She is not good with time. Yeah.


Now, his parents were either together or alone for the whole basically late evening and good afternoon works, especially when they're babysitting a three year old. I'm not going to go have parties. Each of them talked about going on a trip to Kmart where Slover senior said he bought a certain plateau set that Kmart said they didn't sell. So that's an interesting thing there. Michael Slover, Jr. Was the last person basically or was he talking to everybody here? Another person here is Michael Mannix is a retired Illinois state police officer.


He led the investigation later on. He's retired, obviously. He talks about he's an expert on Grass's. And we'll get to that. Another guy they talk to here is a former Karens former father in law, Slover, senior year. They said that he cried two or three times and he prayed for Karen when she was missing. That's when the police talked to him. The police officer had talked to him, said that he gave details of his activity in the days after Kyron disappeared.


And he said that he and his son drove to Pat County on September 30th for an interview with the sheriff's deputies. And Senior told the cop that during the trip, Janette called him to tell him Karen's body had been found.


So that's how that Karen has no shortage of of people that could kill her. Unbelievable. It's a lot. It's very dangerous. She told her friends many times that she had to physically pull her son away. This is Karen I'm talking about. I had to physically pull Colton away from the Slover family when she picked him up on one occasion, Janet Slover reportedly said, Colton, don't worry, one day you'll be all mine, is what an ex-boyfriend said that was there with her.


When her boyfriend asked why she kept taking her son to the in-laws car, Karen said she was in fear of them and didn't want to cross them, basically, and it was in the divorce agreement and it was just easier to deal with this. Got it. Yeah. So I guess a bunch of people knew that Karen and Janette got into an argument over placing the boy in an all day preschool three days a week. Jeanette, I apparently that was like in the month before the death.


Jeanette said, though they worked out their differences over the disagreement and it was fine. So also, she had another kid with her Jeanette dad. She was babysitting Colton and another kid named Clayton, and his mother came to pick him up around five, 20 p.m. But usually that's when the mother usually came. But the other kids mother came early that day and she was there. And nothing was unusual about anybody's demeanor or anything like that. A guy named Keith Wiggill people's names, Keith Wiggill lived next door to Senior and Jeanette Slover and his son was born at five a.m. that morning and he didn't get home from the hospital till three or three thirty in the afternoon.


He lay down to take a nap about five thirty or six p.m. and he got a phone call from Jeanette asking about the baby. Following the phone call, he took a shower, went back to the hospital, and then came back at about 11:00 and went to bed. He said nothing was going on unusual around the house or anything like that. So that's normal. Senior tells them he works as a pipe insulator at the Clinton power house and also operates a car lot called Miracle Motors.


He said he left for work at five thirty a.m., got home from work at four thirty or five p.m., and he said that Jeanette and Colton were there when he arrived. And that's that. So now Mary Slover, this is Michael Jr. sister. OK, she does not like Karen and she lets it be known. She told many of her coworkers that Karen was not a good mother and wished she would die of cancer or in a car accident.


Oh, holy shit. That's ha ha hold. Yeah. She also she admitted to saying later on to police that she hopes skin cancer would, quote, eat her face off. My God, Jesus Christ was so mad. Jealous much. Yeah. This pretty bitch. That's what she said.


Takes her best asset, her goddamn face. Burn it off.


Yeah. She's like a terrible ex-boyfriend or something. So imagine.


Oh yeah. October here comes around a couple of days later. And police conduct a series of search warrants at Myracle Motors automotive dealership in Mount Zion, which is owned by Slover Senior and Anjanette. They found apparently burn barrels in some burn barrels. They found some buttons from jeans that were the same jeans that Karen Slover was wearing at the time of her death in a burn barrel. Yeah, that's not a lie. Yeah, exactly. It was a button.


It was a very particular type of button fly that only one store around there sold. They went they they traced the button back to the manufacturer, back to the the the lot of jeans that were made over here transferred to an Iowa warehouse and then into this store like I went all the way down the rabbit hole, these fucking jeans for an hour. I was reading about jeans from nineteen ninety six in the buttons that they use like shoe like an.


Asshole, like a yeah, like a complete asshole I was doing. That's what I felt like. I felt like that guy. Yeah, it's a black it's a it's a neveah just, God damn it, somebody who fucking bought it. I the most fascinating thing about that is that Richard Ramirez found the one pair of the in Los Angeles one goddamn shoe. One pair of those got to Los Angeles. And how many how many stores sell shoes in L.A..


Right. Thousand. 2000. Who the fuck knows. He walked into the one store that had one pair of those that happen to be in his size even now.


What are the odds of that being his size, also in his price budget? What are the odds of that? What the fuck he was like? Yeah, those oh, these happen to be the only pair in existence in the western United States. Like, what the fuck? Maybe that's what the salesman told them.


We have one pair of these and the only ones and 25, 99 pretty can feel pretty good like Bruno Marlee's or some shit there. Yeah, exactly.


We'll talk about all that in the Patriot episode. And I didn't mean to get off.


See the person that got a rare set of shoes. It's Wilsford. It's well, I haven't. I have black Superman's. Yeah, but you don't kill anybody.


Now, if I, if I did, I would wear the black Superman just because they'd be so distinctive. Like it's Filipino. Yeah, it's a Philipps for Sho from the Philippines about a guy who played in the eighties and had a coke habit.


This is missing half of it. So it's got to be weird. Only James has those and he was wearing a tender, juicy hot dogs jersey. It's got to be him. So they also recovered some bone fragments from the property at the time and they brought a job and also police brought a bone or a box of meat near the property where it was cut up for comparison purposes. None of the photographs, there's a bunch of photographs. There's a thing about the comparisons here.


Now, he there's a thing about the whole thing about photos that they argue about whether they because they took photos of the burn barrel and they took photos of their experiment. But whether the photos should be in court later, it's crazy. So a lot of a lot of fighting about that here. So they search all of this. The search accounted to a mini archeological dig, is what they called it in the paper here. It was the Herald and Review, by the way, that she worked that had a lot of great articles on this.


So police shoveled two inch deep sections of dirt into buckets and then sifted them. So it's very controlled because of a recent snowfall. They said it was like trying to sift mud pie. So investigators found that's right when they found the metal button in the dirt. And so there's that they took they had to get like this big, big, like flamethrower thing to melt the snow and soften the ground so they could dig. It's friggin insane. So now they say we as the time goes by because we're going to nineteen ninety seven, no arrest.


Still investigating. And all this, the police say they've accumulated more than twenty four hundred leads in the case. Twenty four hundred leads here, they said they learned that Michael Slover Jr. had a group of men who sold used cars on their own. He processed the paperwork and let them drive on his dealer plates in exchange for a hundred dollar fee. So they did uncover like a little sleazy operation. Slover Junior is running out of there. But that's right.


That park it in the McDonald's parking lot with the for sale sign on it. Yeah, that weird shit.


Yeah, you can use my dealer plate. And also there's abuse allegations here about Michael Slover Jr., physical and verbal abuse of his ex-wife here and demeaning statements about her, Jill Scribner and Laurie Lee Hall, who are friends of Slover. They said that the three were at Hall's trailer in late fall of 92 after a girls night out just hanging in the trailer after last night. That's very Sex in the City, I got to tell you right there. That's Sex in the small town, sex in the small town with Sex in the City.


Outside, I guess, is a couple of years later, Sex in the City is Midnighters. So I was trying to throw that in there. And they're trying to be glamorous. Yeah. But instead of, like, the stoop of your the stoop of your Greenwich Village brownstone, you're in your friend's house. I would set up stairs.


Yeah. So the wrought iron rail.


Oh, baby. Well, the wrought iron that's, you know, class.


If the wrought iron square tubing we call Rodda at least at least it's not just two blocks on the ground that step on.


That's just some channel. My Uncle Weld together we call that rock. It's rotten.


That's why we call it Rodnina, because we made two steps out of three cinder blocks if you just all come on up there. So anyway, they said they were there and they weren't married yet. Karen and Michael, someone called on the phone and then the three of them went in Karen Lover's car to the parking lot of cub foods where Michael Jr. works. She dropped the two women off at the front door and then went to park the car on on the side of the store.


The two friends said they walked to the corner of the store to get a view of her car. She parked. She said the Karen parked her car next to the one they recognized as belonging to Michael Jr. He got out of his car, opened the driver's side door of Karen's car, reached inside, grabbed her by the neck and pulled her from the car. Holy shit, they said he then threw her against the car door hard enough to make the car rock back and forth.


Holy fuck. Jesus Christ. This is at his job. Are you cars in the parking lot of his job? Who the who. The shit beats their wife at work. That's insanity. Like it's crazy to beat your wife, but usually people do that shit in private. They're not like, fuck, I'll do it at the office. Help. Hopefully my manager doesn't see this. Like, what the. Are you kidding me? So the two friends yelled and screamed and ran to them.


Thank fuck. So Michael Jr. stopped and apologized for his actions and said that he'd never done anything like that before and he was just so upset I got a hold of him there. So a few days later, Karen arrived for work at the J.C. Penney photo studio. Yep. I'm sure that job doesn't exist anymore. Now, where now where Scribner was also employed. And she said that Karen pulled back her hair to reveal yellowish bruises on her neck where Michael.


I grabbed her hard. Yeah, that's crazy. Another one of her friends, April Smith, said she was visiting Karen after her marriage when Michael Slover Jr arrived at the apartment they rented. She said Karen was pregnant at the time and showing and from where she was seated on the living room couch. Smith said she could see directly into the bedroom where Slover Junior asked Karen to go with him. She said she observed Slover Junior pushed Karen onto the bed and get on top of her, pinning down her shoulders.


Jesus Christ of a pregnant woman? Yeah, visibly, she said she could not hear what was said, and Michael Jr. soon left without speaking to her. Another friend. This is not going stopping.


This is like he does this at his job. Of course he does it in front of friends. And that's what I mean. He does it his job. He's got no shame whatsoever. This he's like the Bill Cosby of wife beating this guy. It's all sorts of coming out of the woodwork. Lets everybody see it, though. That's what I mean.




Except if he did it, like on the set of The Cosby Show, released your shot, I'm going to drug and rape. This young actress is trying out the show. Hold on, Alvin, to watch this sock.


Theo Huxtable, let me teach you how to write fucking awful.


And somebody tell me you out here. She already knows. Yeah, she know what I want her to see.


We didn't mention pudding pops once now, so that sounds impressive. So they they said Rebecca Underwood said that during nineteen ninety four she planned to meet Michael and Karen Junior at a fast food restaurant. After they had visited a local club, Underwood said she arrived first and seated herself inside to wait. When the slow movers arrived, she had observed that Michael Slover Jr. was talking with Karen in the car, edging closer to her as as Karen edged away. She said Michael Slover placed his hand on Karen Slover and she got out, but also exited the car and got in front of her as she tried to enter the restaurant.


So he was like blocking her. He then grabbed her by the left arm and swung his right hand across the face and hit her in the face with his right hand, right hand, she said. Karen entered the restaurant while Michael got back in the car. She observed Karen had a the imprint of fingers on her left cheek and her face was red. So, yeah, he smacked her at a cookout held by mutual friends in October 1995. Underwood said she went into the house to get a glass of iced tea and walked into an argument between Karen and Michael Junior.


Karen Slover was saying that she would leave him and Michael Slover Jr. responded, I'll kill you. So that's a nice deal. No, you won't. Then he noticed Underwood standing nearby and he said, I was only joking. Yeah, I wouldn't kill her hand. This is funny. So I joke around, she said, but then proceeded to tell Karen that if she left him, she would never see Chorlton again because he would use policemen, judges and lawyers to make sure of that.


That was the quote. But I won't kill you. I was just kidding about that. Jesus, Jerry Chandler, who's the bartender at Ronnie's Lounge where she worked, worked for about, said that he worked for about two years as a doorman there. The evening of Karen Clover's funeral, Michael Jr. and several friends were cheering shots, is the way she put it, raising their glasses, tapping them down. Yeah. Yeah, they were cheering that.


She could have said that better anywhere. Shots, cheering shots. They were giving toasts. That's toasting. I'd be better. Her hurricane shots.


I know what that means.


Everybody knows of them and they're even shots and toasting. That would have been a better way to put it in charge.


Her husband, Bill, said he visited Ronni's two or three nights a week after he got off his second shift job at the factory. And he was there October 5th for about a half hour. He said he was standing two to three feet from the table when Michael Slover Jr and his friends were celebrating. He heard Slover Junior say, That's one bitch I won't have to worry about before a shot. Whoa. Yeah, that's aggressive. That's pretty specific.


And that's a don't even if you're not talking about that. Yeah, even if you're talking about you just have like a wayward dog put down, that's awful enough. But like, if it's the day of your wife's funeral, who you are kind is being suspected of killing, you should probably not say shit like that in public is all I'm saying. So, yeah, they heard him refer to her as a bitch and a fucking bitch several times.


Also, she was I was saying, which if that meant you killed your wife, you'd be a wife killer because you've you've had your own ex-wife. Sure.


She's great. Yeah.


But then she's not dead, so that's good. So she still breathes. Now, after a minute here, they end up through all of this we'll talk about here. They end up arresting the Clover's, all three of them really parents. And Michael Slover, Juno, for something very specific that they find here. But at the same time, they do this, they need somewhere for Colton to go. So Mary Slover, Michael's sister, takes takes takes him.


Yeah. The one that really hates once cancer to eat Karen's face off. When asked why, she said, quote, It was the natural progression because she had already been doing many of the tasks of a mother anyway. So what she did is adopted him. Because it was OK with Michael Junior because he's sitting in jail and Karen's not there to contest it, so she adopts him, she says, to provide stability and security for Colton. But the birth certificate was changed after the adoption and now listed Mary Kay Slover as the mother of Colton took Karen off.


The fucking cameras are off the birth certificate. No mention of the arrested for no mention of the boys for murder. They arrest them for murder.


No mention of the boy's mother in the birth certificate after the adoption in 1999. Mary Slover, Michael Slover, Junior and Colton. This is before the arrest happens. They all move to Horn, Tennessee. Yeah, yeah. Mary Slover, coworker, said she researched states where a grandparent visitation is more restricted so the Hearn's can't see her. You can't see him. Karen Clover's parents went to court several times to maintain visitation with the grandson. It was a huge pain in the ass.


Now they found some physical evidence, witnesses who lived and worked near the used car lot that they ran. The Clover's saw Michael Slover Jr. and Michael Slover, senior cleaning up the car lot.


This was rare because they had a history of this place being a shithole so seriously conveniently start start setting it up now.


Yeah, and this was this was the days right after the murder. So much so that they get constant notifications from the city to clean up or be fined or whatever, and they just ignore it. And it's like it's known as a sloppy, sloppy place, which some time together, that's all. Yup.


It became overgrown with weeds and brush. Some people saw they said they saw Slover seen here burning debris in an area near the large metal garage. Investigators say later on that they found bone ships that are possibly human. And the buttons in that area, that's where they found it. People associated with the Clover's at the car lot reported seeing a bloody mess behind a metal building on the property, a bloody mess, blood everywhere. Michael Senior said the mess was left over from butchering rabbits.


How many rabbits? I don't know, but probably a bunch with a chainsaw or with a fucking circular saw or something. So I get them tossed around.


Bloody mess. Another man said the blood was gone after the tall grass was cut. So they cut the grass. They got rid of the blood. So then there's the dig here. They had a lot of concrete and cinders that remember, that resembled remnants used to lay down the bags on the property as well. They called in the U.S. Army to help sift through the soil here, the 5000 square foot area. So they call on the army. And yeah, this is after they cleaned it all up.


So they're really looking they have to look really close. They're six months into this dig. The task force found that's when they finally found the metal button. So that's what it took the army to find a fucking metal button. That's how much this is crazy. During the March 1998 dig, they found the button. They found two rivets similar to the buttons and rivets found on the jeans covering the part of her dismembered body. They all matched up.


They also found a cloth button similar to the button on a woman's sleeve. They found bone chips, but they couldn't make anything of that. They also found they had botanists from the University of Illinois matched two kinds of plants on the car, lot to weed's found in Karen's hair as well. Yeah, trash the trash bags containing the body parts are weighted with concrete. A forensic geologist from Canada said the pieces of concrete are similar to the pieces found at Myracle Motors.


Holy shit, that's good. No, they were of different colors, but they said that's because one was soaked in water before one was. So they're going to be different. Authorities said the cinders, which are a byproduct of burning coal at a Stehly manufacturing company, were washed out of trucks from a company that rented land adjacent to the car lot.


So that's where some from their drivers washed out. The trucks in the cinders ended up over much of the car lot, forming a cinder and gravel parking lot, he said the cinders are all similar in their makeup, so it's hard to tell where they can't tell a batch or anything. Also, grass, like we said, they found all sorts of grass here, different ones, three different species of grass. It's pretty boring to get into that. The the cinder guy was pretty interesting, actually.


And then finally, authorities find several dark colored dog hairs on a on the duct tape used on a bag to dump part of her dismembered body. Like on the tape that was taped on, there was dog hair stuck to what happens when you go in anybody's house that has a pet that's.


Yeah, is everywhere.


If you put a piece of duct tape on my body right now and pulled it off, even though I'm not near my two twenty five hundred miles from my dogs, there will be a dog hair in there. It doesn't match. We'll be there, you have it inside of you, there's dog hairs, you let everyone on an airplane seat there around. Yeah, they're everywhere. Yes. So they found several dark colored dog hairs. Like we said, they were only able to extract DNA out of one of the hairs, dog DNA.


They extracted dog DNA. Do this is this has never happened in the history of crime and it's never happened on our fucking show, obviously. So they said based on one in 56000 odds of an animal possessing the same genetic markers on a database containing the genetic profiles of four hundred seventy dogs, none of those dogs were from the Midwest and all were purebred. Christopher Bastin, who's the expert in statistical genetics from North Carolina State, was invited to review the data.


And they said that he said that they should make adjustments to the calculations to account for the high degree of inbreeding among dogs in the database. Right. He said that he placed the odds of a dog possessing the same genetic markers found in the hair with Slava's body to be one in six hundred eighty. So a little bit less, but still that's pretty fucking close.


If you're talking about close, do you think we are to them like putting DNA into a computer and hitting enter and then like it can process that DNA and create the image of the person, like in a movie like like basically like on CSI or whatever.


That's kind of what this is, what the DNA is. Click, enter. And then they go, oh, that's the guy, Richard Ramirez. That's what he will do, a 3D thing of like all good areas. Let's go grab them.


And then they're going to do that with dogs where they click enter and you're going to see like where the black spots match up on their faces and shit like that. You know, I've seen that dog. That's fucking Slava's dog. That's fucking goddamn Slava's. I know that dog. I see it. I could see him look at him humping away. So they the dog hair here belongs to Cagney, a black Labrador mix dog owned by the Clovers. There you go.


He possesses those genetic markers. They said that the tests eliminated the elvers. The elder Clover's other black Labrador mix dog and a blond dog that lived near the Mount Zion carlot as being the source of the hair. It comes from Cagney. It's so Cagney, fucking Cagney and friendly solving murders, Cagney and Lacey, Cagney and Lacey. So basically, basically in Illinois, if you want to solve a murder, you need the help of a dog.


Yeah, that's bastard. This dogs are such they're such good detectives. They did. They they find everything.


Only a fucking dog and into it. But you can find a dog so they Jesus Christ this is wild. So they said this is weird and it doesn't happen. We've never done this before. You know what's up with that. They said because fingerprinting is established in humans doesn't mean that you can just take it to that. You can just take that and transfer it to the dog world. That's what the attorney said. And they went, you know, actually, we got some pretty good scientific experts in here say, fuck, yeah, you can.


Yeah. So give it a shot. Also, a forensic scientist with the Illinois State Police testified a cloth button found at the car lot could have come from a blouse that Karen stole Slover was wearing when she disappeared that we said that they compared the button in the car lot with the one found on the torn section of the blouse. And he said the buttons had the same measurements and fabric. And now there's that. So and then if the Slover is at this point, aren't sucking enough in your brain, if you're not upset with them enough.


Here you go, Jenette and Senior. Yeah. Had their dogs euthanized after they were matched DNA. Wow. Yep, they took it out on their dogs, they they said, you motherfucker, and put them all down, had them put down. Yup. That's fucking wild, man. Unbelievable. The prosecutors have a theory here that Karen showed up to pick up her, to pick up her son. And they said that their theory is that Ginnette shot Karen in the back of the head when she showed up because Ginnette was that would have been like the normal thing that GeoNet was there.


She shot her in the back of the head and then they think somebody else came pump the other six into the side of her head. And then they took her, took her down to the car lot, dismembered her in the back there, bagged up the pieces, weighed them down with concrete chunks from all around the property, through the bags. And like Shelbyville, walked out of the woods. That's what they heard. So they said, though, the police and then they just abandoned the car along the highway to make it look like kept her purse in there and all that shit.


So dad did it.


They think mom, dad and mom and Junior all did it together. They think she came over because she was seen with our son at about six o'clock. So it had taken until about six thirty, which is when he's already off from work because he got off of work at 6:00 and then said he went home. But his girlfriend said he doesn't she doesn't remember seeing him there. And then he shows up at work with wet hair, freshly showered right at eight o'clock.


So he had, you know, an hour and a half an hour, 15 minutes to take her out, dismember and do all that shit and then go to work. Now, the my God, they also and this is so weird. I only say this. I try not to be graphic or exploitative or whatever, but I say this because I don't know what this is and I don't know if this is a staging thing or something vicious that they're doing.


And it's it's just part of the case. So I apologize to someone or anyone who finds this gross like I do. So Dr. Travis Hyndman, who's an expert in forensic pathology, he examined a portion of the pelvis of Karen Slover. He identified rocks, sand and gravel and photographs of the body parts. According to him, the the I'll just use the terms right from the court documents so I don't have to be weird. The vagina and rectum were facing away from the direction of the waves, waves on the lake.


That's only important because he found what he described as a large quantity of sand, rocks and gravel within the vagina and terminal leading to the outside of the anus. The amount of sand, rocks and gravel that came from the vagina alone formed a mass, a mass, ten by ten by two centimeters.


So that's like it wasn't like the water washed it in. Exactly, because he said he assumed that in that she was facing away from the waves. So it wasn't like she was in the waves. And even then, how is that going to go in there?


Yeah, we're watertight container. That's the other thing.


He described the vagina as a closed compartment, which does not allow materials, even water, to enter. Otherwise, women wouldn't be able to swim.


It goes something like, oh, Jesus, um, fill it up and it would start coming out of their fucking eyes. Well, what do you gave me? The exclusive showers. That's what I mean.


I get that, you know, when you the rigor process and all that. But it's not going to allow all this. And it's just not that's not the way it works. He also found a tampon low in the vagina with sand and gravel and rocks very high in the vagina. So almost like a plug to keep the sand in there. And the rocks based on the amount of sand, gravel and rocks found above the tampon. He opined that the materials found inside the vagina were not caused by the lake's wave action, even though the muscle of the body relax after death.


The sand, rocks and gravel were likely placed there because water does not easily enter the vagina, and the tampon served as a substantial, obstructive agent. So believable. But there's no evidence because of the dismemberment and in the water, there's no evidence that she was sexually assaulted before her death. They don't have evidence that she wasn't, but they don't have evidence that she was either. So, yeah. So they also they the defense tries to tries to break it down a little bit.


They the quintet's woman who works with Karen at her job, who said that, you know, she was all freaked out after the phone call with Michael. Apparently, she said on her grand jury testimony, she didn't say that Karen was shaking when she got off the phone. But then later on, she said that she was shaking during the trial. So they're trying to break that down a little bit. They also said a detective was called the Cub Foods about the shoplifter, and he said that there was nothing, nothing about Junior's behavior that you could think was was bad.


They said that he he apprehended the shoplifter between four thirty and five and Junior left the store at six thirty. So he showed up a little bit after 8:00. So he's got about an hour. To do what he needs to do if he did it so now the store manager said he worked from 7:00 a.m. till six thirty pm and he saw JR periodically throughout the day and was with them between five and six. So he wasn't gone there. But we know she was alive at 6:00 because she was eating ice cream and buying gum.




So that doesn't really does it matter whether or not she was scared of a phone call, you know?


Yeah, I mean, we have the dog DNA and we don't have a lot of other stuff. Jean Schoeman received karate lessons in his home from Junior. Junior taught karate to Schumann and his three children and a friend every Monday and Friday from five thirty six thirty pm on September. Twenty seventh Junior did not arrive at the Schumann home until six 10 p.m. so Schumann noticed nothing unusual about Junior and that he'd been late on other occasions. So he showed up for the karate lesson, though.


So he's he's there. He was wearing blue jeans and a T-shirt, not his karate uniform, as he did about half the lessons he instructed for about 30 minutes, and then he left about six forty five. So that's how that work there. Now, the cop he talked to out on the road, this was he the cop was at a vehicular accident, as they put it. There was there was a Woolery officer Woolery was inside her squad car doing paperwork when she saw Junior as he walked toward her car across the grassy median.


He spoke she spoke briefly with George before he walked back to his vehicle across the median.


So he walked all the way over a median to talk to her, got out of the car and crossed the street for this? Yeah. Yeah. He said he she said that she didn't see anyone with Junior. She recalled talking to an officer about it later on. She said that she saw when she saw Junior, he did not have his karate uniform on, but he was wearing a bulky flannel. And she also testified that he would have had to have crossed six lanes of traffic if his car was all the way on the east side like it was.


And she said that in the past, Junior had never stopped to converse with her while she was on duty. So it's not like, oh, I got to go say hi to her. She's my buddy now. He explains the traffic to say hello, to say hello to someone I don't talk to. That's interesting here. So, yeah, Trena, her his girlfriend said she got off work at 5:00, picked up her boys and went to the store, got home about six thirty.


Now at trial, she says that he arrived at 7:00 p.m. Originally. She said she didn't remember him being home. She testified also that he had on his karate uniform when he arrived, which we know he didn't because he didn't he didn't wear, I don't know, unless he put it on after the lesson. I like to teach them.


Well, I teach karate and then I feel so full of karate this. Then I put a uniform on because it just feels right.


Listen, would you look, this is how I sell my my lessons. I got to you got to look the part. You got to dress for the job you want. I certainly do.


By the way, I look the part now. Yeah. She said he, he showered James got something to eat and then took off to go to Ronni's to be a bouncer there. She said she didn't remember if he was already home or if he joined her because at the grand jury she said, I don't remember any of that. I don't remember where he was and all this type of shit here. So he showed up at the bar, like we said, and we found out where what all that was.


His parents apparently took Colton to Kmart sometime between 5:00 p.m. and five thirty. She left a note on the door and Karen knew how to get into the house if she arrived to pick up Colton while they were at the store. When she returned home at six p.m., Senior was already at the car lot. So she said that she arrived home with she stayed home with Colton until eight and then they went to the car. Lot to see here. Prior to going to the car lot, Jeanette called Karen's apartment, but nobody was home and they were going to go to McDonald's.


But Colton fell asleep at the car lot, so they just went home instead. Now, senior, he would go feed his dogs and shit at the car lot and everything. Sometimes a car would be closed for a week because he didn't have time to be there. So he had a car lot that was like rarely open. That's a very yeah. It's a very weird thing to own a car lot and have it not really matter to you. He went to his car lot the next morning between nine and 10 a.m., returned there until noon and then returned to a lot at four or five.


Colton stayed there on Friday and Saturday night. The that's how that went. He went daily to feed the dogs, like we said. Then they started cleaning right away. There's a lot of phone calls between the whole family here, but that's normal with a family table to make a lot of phone calls. Now, the dog, like we said, is introduced as a big thing. And, you know, people are into that with the DNA and everything is its way.


It's fucking fascinating. Another icky person here, Illinois State Police, crime scene investigators, they testified about finding blood and dark colored debris on the Findlay Bridge. They believe parts of the. Dismembered body were dumped from the bridge, he said the body looked like it may have been said the debris looked like it may have been a bird seat cushion material and also testified that this site, they saw cinders around the edge of the bridge rail, but did not collect the cinders as possible evidence for some reason.


And also, prosecutors contend Cinders found embedded in Karen Glover's body matched cinders found at the car lot. So there's a lot here going on. Let's see here. This is this is fucking crazy. They try to argue the concrete stuff based on different color, but that the scientists say the dampness would make up for that. Yeah, there's a lot going on here. At issue during the one testimony was a small amount of alcohol found in Karen's system during the autopsy.


But the the medical examiner testified that he believes the alcohol came from her inhaler. She has an inhaler and asthma. And apparently, I don't know, back then, I guess the the there was it would say you have a little bit of alcohol in your system. Like a trace. Yeah, not like did it wasn't like a point for anything. It was like a trace. So they said that it's possible that she might have had a sip of an alcoholic beverage also.


We can't rule that out, but that amount could come from an inhaler also. So, yeah, there was that. Now they bring in all the abuse claims. Holy shit, that's a lot. The Slover attorneys objected repeatedly to testimony about Michael Slover, Jr's abusive ex. And each time the judge instructs the jury that the evidence will be given to us to be limited to Michael Slover Jr. when it was considered the case in total, blah, blah, blah, special jury instruction.


You can talk about this bad shit, but you can only you can only think about it in a certain way. Jury people. So the prosecution witness who would have testified about a June ninety one incident with Michael, Joe Slover Junior doesn't get to take the stand. It's an ex-girlfriend of his who is set to testify that he threatened her at a property adjacent to the parking lot and they wouldn't let her be called threatened her life. I guess she's not allowed to testify here.


And also, another person not allowed to testify is a friend of his who would have testified about a conversation which he had allegedly had with Michael Slover Jr. about how to commit the perfect crime.


Oh, my God. He prosecutors said that his description had had, quote, uncanny similarities to how Karen Slover died. Right. But a defense attorney said the testimony would be highly prejudicial, highly prejudicial, because he thought, yeah, that's pretty prejudicial to him. Like, of course it is. Yeah.


Your Honor, I cannot show evidence that shows my client is clearly guilty.


I mean, that DNA evidence is highly prejudicial. I'm going to take that shit seriously. Oh, my God, that's a job as a meatpacker is going to be very detrimental to my case about the body found in the meat packing company.


Holy shit, that's hilarious. They also said the conversation occurred before her. Karen and Michael Slover Jr. met. So it doesn't matter, does it? Still has a plan right now. Like I said, he brings his girlfriend in to sort of give him an alibi. But it wasn't the same alibi she gave to the grand jury. So it's a little less easier. They said they bring in the clean up of the of the car lot as a big deal.


One employee here is a former employee that worked there for two years. He said the lot was normally unorganized and messy. However, the week after Karen was murdered, he observed senior near a fairly large fire, either in the burn barrel or near it. He said he had never seen senior burn anything on the property before that time. The burns, a lot of shit that they're burning, a lot of shit. Later that same day, he came into the into a place to collect rent from this guy.


They said he was acting nervous, sweating and looking over his shoulder. They said they normally knew him to be very calm and laid back. They also said it was unreal, unseasonably hot that day, so sweating when it came from that. And he's he's kind of a big fat guy, also a tire.


And that'll make you sweat. Yeah.


Another guy testified to that, had a business right by there that the lot was unkempt, overrun with old cars and overgrown weeds. And the weekend after the death, he saw Jr. with a weed eater along the south fence row, cutting down weeds and doing all sorts of property maintenance. He said he's never, ever seen Junior do any kind of maintenance on the lot ever, and he's always there. So then they bring in all the car, all the car sightings.


One that we didn't mention was a guy named Leo Myers just after 5:00 saw a blond haired girl pull up to the left of his car and the car's license plate was Cadd seven. And the blond was described as petite, attractive and wearing sunglasses. OK, OK. He also observed a passenger in the car who he whom he described as being a young man with brown hair that touched his shoulders. Yeah, OK. Now, the passenger also had acne around his chin and wore a tan short sleeved sweater.


Look at this guy. Fogbound stared at him that a light just stared. He last saw the car north on the north end of the town near Mount Road. Now, the following week, he thought he saw the younger man with long hair in the Herald and Review parking lot talking to another heavyset man. I don't know what that significance that has at about five twenty or five twenty five, James Huff stated he was passed by a speeding car with CAD seven license plate the last time, doctor.


The last time this guy saw the car was traveling north, heading just south of Sarah Gordo. At the same time, a school bus driver named Vickie Yagman saw a car with the seven license plate traveling at a high rate of speed north on Route 105 as well. So this is fucking this car's getting all over. The place really is between five thirty and six thirty. Several people saw Karen and or her car and Sarah Gado, as we know, we talked about the ice cream cone and the gum and everything like that.


And then the chase, the between eight and eight, 20, the Housh family saw two cars traveling west at a high rate of speed. The second car, the license plate of Cadd seven, the they later saw the Cat seven car near the Clinton exit on the right hand side of the shoulder of Interstate 72 with the driver and passenger side doors open in the dome light on a couple saw a couple of the houses, saw a man six foot to six foot three at the side of the car walking toward the trunk.


He had a white mark on the side of his face. They also saw someone laying down in the front seat of the car with his or her legs sticking outside the driver's door.


So shortly after driving, keep driving.


See you. Minding my own business. That looks like a murder. That's the song on the radio I got to do.


I got it to do. I got to put the kids to bed tonight. Yeah.


No time for this shit.


Going to have to stick around and talk to police officers. I don't think so.


Treating it like Rusty in the case. I got to put the hogs out. I oh Jesus Christ worked the deal.


Got to pay those bills the fuck out of here. It was David Suan was the guy's name. Maybe that's the D in the ass and cabs. I've been sitting here for an hour, two hours and 15 minutes and 48 seconds trying to figure out what the forecast.


David seven cockiest. David caused seven seven. So, yeah. So all these people are seeing the cars bumper to bumper people. Another person saw bumper to bumper, high rate of speed as we so that was multiple people, not just the one person here, another person. And people see sometimes they see her by herself and sometimes they see her with somebody in the car as well, which is weird. Another person said they saw said she tends to read license plates and notice that plate.


Jesus Christ, man. Now in the closing argument annoyed her.


James, what is that? God damn it, that fucking plate. Now, the closing argument, the defense attorney said, quote, Even when you add up all these things, it doesn't equal first degree murder. They didn't. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of, quote, evidence. Yeah. Sure, why not, but I mean, come on, come on, guys, what's evidence really in a case like this? It's really all just hearsay and bullshit and who knows what's going on, right.


So the verdict comes in. And this is Jeanette Michael Senior, Michael Junior, all three of them lined up. The whole family here. Mary is not charged with anything. The sister, she's still got Kolten. But more on that in a moment.


And she's charged of nothing except for in the court of public. People think she's a twat, right? That's. Yeah, cancer. Eat the face off. Kind of. She's kind of an asshole. And this is.


Yeah, I would say so. And this is by the way, this is 2002, that the fuckin verdict finally comes six years after the trial didn't start till then. I mean, it took that long. They didn't get a grand jury until 1998. It was kept going on and on. So they find everybody guilty of murder in the first degree. All of you sentencing comes around. They sit the whole family down. And the nice family moment when he could be sentenced, we rarely get it where you're sentenced with your mom and dad together.


You know, it's nice. It's it's quaint.


Honestly, we had that one where the parents and the jersey. Right.


But they had a separate trial right now because they're sentencing was they work together. Yeah. That's the only time. That's the only time I've ever seen it. But we're back. So they say, you family man. Fuck off you, fam. Hey, fuck off, all of you. They're sentenced to each for sixty years to 60 years in prison for murder. My God. And then both the Slover men are sentenced to an additional five years each for concealing a homicide.


So sixty four point sixty five each for the boys.


Now, 2003, Marion Colton here marries Watchem Colton. She ends up losing custody of Colton in 2003 after she was declared an unfit parent while she was involved. She is found legally to be involved in the concealment of Karen's lover's death. She was there. They never charged her with anything, but they say she know about it and concealed it. OK, so didn't tell anybody about it. So the judge here, Scott B Diamond, also ruled there was insufficient evidence to support prosecutor's contention that Slover was unfit because she'd been complicit in the murder.


But it was enough to take the kid away. They take Colton and put him in state guardianship here for a minute. He ends up, though, he ends up, though, being taken in by Larry and Donna Hearn, who were excited as all get out to get. They sat there just like they said. They're so excited. They feel like little kids. They can't wait to get Colton and try to help him. And all this sort of shit, they're good people.


They seem like those urns.


So the. Yeah, two thousand five, they're trying to link Mary Slover to this bad. They want Mary Slover. They genetically test a cat hair.


So I don't have cats, mother fuckers don't have pets if you want to murder and of course, that bitch has cats.


Of course she does, Mary. They test that out. Mary Slover, obviously, her brother had been there. They find they could not reach a conclusion with the pet hare. Basically, they Mary Slover formerly lived in sea and had the cat hair and animal DNA expert, DNA expert compared the hair with the hair taken from the vehicle she was driving. And they haven't found they couldn't get a conclusive match on that. And we don't know about Cat how that works.


And then inconclusive that she killed anybody or had anything to do with it. But we do know absolutely, unequivocally, Mary, the one that we do not.


Mary, seems like a real to cancer to eat a woman's face on. What a bitch, what an asshole. So on the grim Mary that she's a grim Mary. She is, though. So the attorney representing Mary during the custody hearing here, he maintains that the cat hair, cat hair evidence was meaningless even if it did match. He said Colton played with Mary Clover's cats and could have transferred the hair to his mother. Which is true. Which is true.


That that you got to have that. That's a fact. Now, a cousin to them and a supporter, Kelley Kirienko, with no fucking vowels, except for now, see. Ah, and say, oh no, the fuck out of here with that. Pick a fucking vowel and stick it in there people. I don't give a shit which one but you need one. That's a cousin and a supporter of Mary questioned what the cat hair evidence means now they said quote They were going to use it to fit their story.


My question is, are they on the lookout now for this cat owner? OK, they also said that it was complicated by the fact that the authorities were not able to take the cat, the hair directly from Mary's two cats because they were dead. So this had to be like cat hair they found in the corners of her house and she didn't vacuum well enough.


So now they argued that Mary Slover conspired to abduct Caulton from KARREN, a plot that culminated with Cameron's murder and the adoption of the boy by Mary. So that's the angle they're going to take. She said she adopted the boy in order to do what was best for her nephew. Now the Slover is appeal on all sorts of shit. They're challenging the canine DNA evidence. They're saying that they saw too many autopsy photos and all sorts of shit like that.


They did say that the the admission of certain statements by the defendants was an error, but ruled that the error did not rise to the level of denying them a right to a fair trial. So 2003 is the whole Chorlton thing went on. They the judge rules that Mary Slover or Carol Reynolds, it was a court appointed special advocate, Carole Reynolds. She said that Mary still Slover is, quote, depraved and unfit.


OK, but also said that she should continue to have supervised visits with Caulton because it'd be better for the kid, which I mean, if she's depraved and unfit. Jesus Christ. Oh, yeah. The written orders which said that are statements that have been made. Caulton must be safeguarded from anyone who believes his father and paternal grandparents might be innocent. That's what they said. Yeah. Now the kringle's who wanted the cousins who wanted to take custody, he said that they know the judge said, quote, The crinkles have become a Trojan stalking horse for the Clover's.


They, too, believe this Lovas did not commit the murder and that Mary Slover was not involved in the concealment of the homicide. They would continue to feed the minor Caulton lies and untruths and no doubt cut off visitation with the Hearn's contrary to their assertion, which the court could then not could not then rectify, he said. In the best interest of the minor, he'd be raised by the Hearn's so that he'll know the truth of his background.


Yeah, and also that's the closest blood to him. That's how he should go to. Yeah, he's not going to go to some cousins of your cousins or fuck you murderers. Cousins now.


Buchheit no. Colton went to live with the Hearn's the workers who told the crinkles and marry DCF. SS was that some sort of child services then told the gringo's and Mary Slover that Kolten packed away all cards, letters and toys that they all gave him because he was convinced the Hurdes would confiscate the items and not let him have them, because they've convinced him that they're terrible people. The Slava's have glovers of convinced that they're going to go to these terrible people.


Yeah, the Hearn's, though they said they're gidday as a couple of kids about having Colten. Oh, they it's great. They said that they Caulton appears to be making a healthy adjustment to the new situation. And he says, quote, Mary says this is she says that he looked like she's trying to say he the kid looked like he was well adjusted to the situation. But I know better, OK? She said I know him well enough to know he's trying to be strong and not show his emotions.


He told me before he would wouldn't ever let anyone see him cry. But that just makes me worry about him more. I'm happier he looks the more I'm worried about him.


Yeah. Now, 2008, the Illinois Innocence Project takes up this Lovas case, stop that. Yeah, I don't know what that's a waste of time. What did they find who are actually nothing. The petition alleges that David Swane, who was the boyfriend, misled the jury when he described his car, the one she was last seen driving as having clear rather than tinted windows.


I read 30 pages on fucking tinted fucking windows and whether the car did the windows and whether this person saw the tinted windows.


And when you saw it, they did have tinted windows. Was it at night whether they looked into it? Could you see inside? Was the dome light on from that fucking dude? It's so much to talk. If I was a lawyer, I'd fucking hang myself in a courtroom.


If I had to talk about tinted windows for a fucking day and a half or you'd stroke your cock about it because that's what's going to get these fucking nut jobs out of prison. If you're the depends on which side of the aisle that that in line.


That's true. And Chicago, Illinois, you can't really have tinted windows there. Right. How dark is tint and does it even fucking look tinted? Does it matter?


I mean, yeah, that's that's what I mean. So Jesus Christ. Mark Kamper, a student in the wrongful convictions class during the 2005 spring semester, obtained a tape evidence from SMK, Pontiac and GMC in Springfield that the car in question had factory tinted windows.


OK, so it's barely tinted. It's barely empty. And if you ask a guy, do you have tinted windows and he didn't have tents put in and say, no, no. Right. If you have every car I've ever had as factory tinted windows and if you say, do you have tents, I'd say no, because I didn't do anything to it.


I thought it was just the way it is. Yup. And that's basically what they're trying to say here, that he testified against that. So the court filing mentioned an untested human hair found at the scene, as well as a fingerprint near a spot of the victim's blood at Finley Bridge and ordered a hearing to potentially new effort to get potentially new evidence in the case. So they're saying that you can get new evidence here. The prosecutor said that they he doesn't understand why the Illinois Innocence Project is involved in this now, and that's the University of Illinois at Springfield.


That does that. That's why.


And it's kids that think that they can do something to change the world. And we can find something that the examiner sometimes they do the hazing.


Yeah, I get it a lot of times. But this is the wrong tree. There's no reason to look into this. You're barking up the wrong tree, man. It's just a lot. So maybe better project should find out if Mary isn't a twat. Do that.


Let's find a way that prevents Mary is innocent of what we found and now we shall go from that.


Yeah. In 2014, they won a ruling allowing DNA testing on certain fingerprint evidence, but that didn't go anywhere and that ended up dying on the vine. So where are they now, Janetta? 72 or 73 now resides in the Logan Correctional Center parole date of twenty twenty nine and projected discharge of twenty thirty two. Yeah. And she has blond hair now for some reason. And Michael Slover has in a medium security Pontiac Correctional Center. This is Senior High.


Twenty thirty two is his parole date and a potential discharge of 20 35. And now Mike Jr. is 50 and incarcerated at the Illinois Correctional Illinois River Correctional Correctional Center parole date of twenty thirty one. Projected discharge of twenty thirty four.


So young still. Yeah, still.


Oh, he's going to get out and be alive and shit. Now Colton is in his late 20s. Obviously today's born in 93 uses a different name now because of this, because this has been covered on TV back in the day and all that ruined his life. Apparently he works as a home improvement in the home improvement industry, as a flooring remodeling.


Oh, God, it's so hard, Caulton. It's so hard. You could charge a lot of money though. Good for you Chorlton. Yeah. So yeah. That poor kid please. If anybody finds him do not bother that poor kid. Jesus Christ. I just feel so bad for him. His mother's dead in the most horrible fucking way possible and then he finds out his father, grandparents and everybody was in on it. Not only that, but then they lied to him about it.


Right. How fucking just I mean, at worst, anybody worse guy man.


Whole worst part of it is that she's dead because they wanted him. Yeah, that's a whole other thing. Yeah, that's it. To do that poor kid. I mean I really hope, I really hope they God I hope he got counseling. Yeah. I really hope he got some good counseling and I don't even know, I don't even know what the fuck man. I feel so bad for that kid. That's terrible. That's one of the I.


Yeah. It's as bad as any kid you've ever felt bad for on the show. Were you like anyone that wasn't like dead or molested or something, just like, you know, whatever bloody life, any live child this is the most.


That's maybe worse this way, because this is got to live with this every goddamn day. So we really hope he's doing well.


We really do. I mean, I hope that's well, I hope the I hope the horns are still alive, too, because they seem like nice people. Yeah. He has grandparents, Karen's parents getting a couple of kids.


It's a couple of kids. That's an acute. Yeah, that's nice stuff. So that everybody is Mt. Zion, Illinois. And a fucking crazy story, I have to say, in terms of brutality, in terms of how it's solved with dog DNA, it's just a crazy ass case man that marries a single woman.


You know that, right? There's no way that woman's married to somebody. Yeah, yeah. I don't think I don't think she was well, when they moved to to was it Hornbeck or whatever the fuck it was Tennessee. It was Michael Junior. Mary and Colton moved. So yeah. Seems like probably not she's probably not with anybody or married to anybody so.


Well her last name is the last Overstuff. Yeah. Yeah. Who knows if she's got that anyway. A single woman. No, it's putting up a lot of cats like that way.


So no listen to her. She's terrible fucking murder accomplice. Jesus Christ.


If you want to hate her right now I feel terrible about fucking her. But in another way.


No, she sucks now. She sucks. She's a piece of shit. She's she's like shit, Karen. She's not even grim. Karen She's shit.


Mary Shit. Mary how are you doing their shit. Mary I don't do shit.


Mary Everybody wanna be hilarious. Never mind. That's me.


Shit. Mary So if you enjoyed that show, tell the world about it. Get on Apple podcast. Give us five stars. Doesn't matter what you say. Say something though, and it helps drive us up the charts. We don't know why. It just does. We don't run Apple the fucking, you know, but I do not like Apple does not accept it.


If you write shit, Mary as a reviewer.


Don't write shit Barry. Now they all take nurses. I do some Asterix in there and then Mary Ann. That's fine shit. Mariotte as we need a shit. Mary t shirt now head over to shut up and give me murder. Dotcom for everything, small town murder and crime and sports related and especially coming up on May the 6th at the Thursday night. But we'll have it. So it's available all weekend. All weekend. Everybody can get it.


All your people overseas and everything like that. You'll have to watch it. Crime in sports, virtual live show and crime and sports live shows are I mean, small time or live shows are great, but crime and sports live shows are just it's not the same. There's no like big murder thing. So, you know, you have to be kind of it's a comedy show and you have to be down for a minute for a couple of somber moments, not for crime and sports.


Now, you just make fun of an asshole for two and a half hour. At a live show, it'll be an hour and a half, but either way, wow, is it fun? I hope they played some sort of, like, cornhole professional, you know, shit. Mariga, the cornhole champion. So get your tickets there. They'll go on sale this week. We're not sure exactly when in the next couple days keep checking. And another good place to check to see when things are on sale is on social media.


We are at murder small on Facebook or on Twitter, at small town pot, on Facebook and at small town murder on Instagram and also up at crime and sports, on Twitter and Facebook as well. If you want to follow that for those tickets, it'll be on Instagram as well. Get those tickets.


I'm telling you, we're going to that's going to be fun. I'm really excited about it. I really that's going to be we're blowing that shit out because that's we're not going to have another virtual live crime in sports is never going to happen again. That's I guarantee you that right now. So we're going to really leave it all on the table for you guys and on the floor on the court. Right. All over shit.


Marriotts, it's and lately it's been asked a lot about vile human beings in that podcast shall be started fairly, fairly shortly. OK, we've got we've got a lot of things we're dealing with and a lot of emails that we send about other things as well. And there's another thing coming.


The artist to get through this have to do one thing first before we get to that business wise. And it's something that involves a whole bunch of pieces being put in place. So don't worry. Good stuff coming soon for everybody. It's it's all to give you guys good content. That's one thing.


So trying to do all of that as we can as often as we can. Absolutely. Main part of it is as best as we can because we want to shipmen. Putting out a shit product is about now.


That's a shit, Mary. So Patriot Dotcom, speaking of a good product, Patriot is the most worth it. Five bucks you're going to spend for anything show related for any show. We really bring it on those patriots and you get access to both small town murder and crime and sports Patreon and like crime and sports, the last major thing we did was about the Hotel Cecil documentary and the missing Lisa lab. It had nothing to do with sports. So these bonus episodes are more freewheeling.


We can kind of do what we want this week. And also the prisoner dating game was last week. So you missed that this week over at Patriot Dotcom Slash Crime and sports. You can get on for the crime and sports show. It'll be Marv Albert, the sportscaster forever, who had a just a weird sex scandal that was super creepy, resulted in criminal charges and everything else. If it was just a sex scandal, who cares? But it was criminal.


So it falls under our jurisdiction. We're going to talk about that. And then for the small town, murder one, we're going to talk about the Netflix documentary about the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez. And we'll get we'll get all sorts of into that man I've been wanting. Oh, God. Could been want to talk about him for a long time so you can get that and everything else at Patreon dotcom slash crime and sports. And that will make you a producer, making you eligible for a shout out.


Not only eligible, you'll have a shout out. Jimmy will mispronounce your name while trying to pronounce it perfectly so you can do all of that at Patry on dotcom slash crime in sports. And on top of that, if you just want to be a good person, have great karma and just do something nice and also be a producer here. Here name, shout it out wrongly. You can do that as well. Over at PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at Gmail dot com.


That said, Jimmy, please hit me with the list of people who would never leave my car running on the side of the road and dismember me into many pieces and put me in a pond. Right now, this week's executive producers are Danielle Marmara Wolf.


Mara Mara as Marc Maron, I don't know how James Cameron, Kichwa, his wife, Wendy, had a birthday this week. Happy birthday, Jordan Bennett. Daniel Levy. I want Levy. Levy. It's a levy, right? Yeah, it could be Levy or Levy.


I want that to be Eugene's boy. But it's probably not Carolyn Osborne, Francisco Arisa, Irisa, Betty Murphy, Matthew Richards and Remington Richards and also Irene Cruz. Thank you guys so, so much. Thank you.


And Remingtons, a cool name. It really is. Yeah, it's pretty badass. I like that.


Other producers this week are Luke Rogers, wrestling's Donny. Remember Donny, you know. Yeah, Donny sends us all kinds of wrestling shit and he's a shit man. Yeah. His girlfriend, I believe. Emily maybe just maybe just a friend. Maybe maybe he wants I don't know. She got a new job, though. Congrats, Emily. Congrats, Emily. Right. Emmalin Brumley donated both ways. Thank you so much, Matthew Henry. Also Maria Grasper, Annabell Wolf, Peyton Meadows, Michelle Miller.


I think that's the Michelle Miller who lives in northern Arizona that drives all over the place. Well, thank you. I think so, because otherwise it could be another Michelle Miller.


Otherwise you. Michelle Miller. Yeah. Either way, we thank you.


Michelle Miller, also Thomas Smith, Alex Ortiz, Nicholas Ryad, Carl Kershner, Gary Howard, Jacob Harper, TJ Maxx, Don Finch had a birthday. Happy birthday, Don. Amanda Night. Christine Tate. John. Miller Hunter Erickson had a birthday happy birthday surfing pioneer Duke, Pale Skin, Okinu, Moco, Hallelujah, Holy, holy, holy Kahanamoku.


All this all wrong. It's all Holy Holla, Klobuchar. Thank you. Erwin Lopez. Morris Buttermaker, who I believe is in a movie. Morris But I think that's a reference to that. I don't know. Also, Rabbi Shmuel Oliver Smoke, Shmuel Cleavage, we thank you. Susanna Platt, Todd Cochrane, Daphne Jean-Baptiste Cary and Kelly Fowler. Krista Fleisher, Beth Charlton had a birthday. Happy Birthday, Genex Cell from Discord Up. Evidently, discord is a thing and a lot of people talk about us over there.


I don't know how to get on it or what it is. I don't know if it's discord dotcom. There's a thing called discord and there's conversation about it. So thank you, all of you, for doing that.


We love Sherry Smith, Janice Hill, Elizabeth Thompson, Annie Goule, Ghoulardi. Nice. Well done. Oh, that's that's the overboard reference right there.


Annie Guley. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's my last name is Goule Ghoulardi.


Roy Barbara Fleck, Jessica Masari, Masari, Robert Fucking Patrick, Jonathan Gorrostieta, Guro Gorrostieta Dame Sarah Sooraj.


She put um lots over all vowels. Let's go ahead. TJ Bartlett in in a triple dump, triple axle dump truck. He drives a triple axle. James she's in the race. Michelle Crotty Scissors Scissors Ceasars. Yeah. Jennifer Visconti. Ashley Veoh. Michael DeGraff Marshall Guro. Geralt Basara Young Sarah Fichte Jesus Elyssa Karris Amylin Brumley. I said that Jennifer Moralez, Mike Burton, Gregory Beamer, Alexis Novis, Adam Yeager, Corey Murdock, Simon Brown, Dakota Moore, RDC Jan Christian Land, Andre Russel's, Stephanie Griggs, Matthew Franklin, Jimmy Marks the third.


What I don't know if that is. Kent Hall, David Klinger, Cortland Wise. Juliet Wood no last name. Nicole Shrout. Shrader Schroeder. Kim Boyd, Aaron Gilmore, Jessica Gandi. Glenn Small. Stephanie Mueller, Cole Lynch. Kaylani Segovia Moreland. Marlon Bohane. Veronica Phillips. Kayla Hilliard, Evelyn Dickson, Jacqueline Gable. Gobble Gobble. Emily Haines, Amanda Irwin, Gabby Rockhill. Jeff Jee, Liam Liam Cocker, Cocker Boi. David Newman.


Nope. That's did what. Why is that did. That's a fact. Somebody with the last name of Newman. Because my computer decided to change the first name to. Well that. No way. Thanks Newman. Maybe it's Dede I don't know.


Dave Newman, Raul Montaño, Alexis Saumya, Susan Hammond, Angela Joiner, Ashley Schmidt. Mike Harcourt's. Good for you.


Sorry you got it very gradually. Darlene Fitzgerald, Ashley D, Tom Persinger, Sarah Torrance, Sarah Hobson, Carolyn Polaski, Sarah Carson. Dana would no last name. T.S. Paul Mader Parmeter. Gloria Davidson. Kathy Jo Casey, Mary Jo Ann Schmidt, Stuart Weissman, Lauren Wolfe, Jessica Chouinard, Adam Wyatt and Matt Bichard. Jessica Cortez. Lauren Nolan. Oh boy oh boy. Cain Alang Cain Alang. Stephanie Hilman. Gabriel with no last name.


Julia Julie Wrye. Jurgen's got all that Jurgen's money cake with no last name. Courtney Drake.


Arlene Damron Demurring Damron, Damron Dalmar and Tiffany HandsOn Tiffany HandsOn Elizabeth Linlithgow.


Lynn Löw. Megan Hanlan. Laura would no last name. David Murray Jill. Reininger Raniga. Oh boy. Andrew Lampa. Taylor Smith. Smith Smith.


What you just mispronounced Smith. That's great. That's a new low Jimmy memory vaun to three Glover said Savan Test.


Jeff Jeff Jennifer Jeff Anna Chapman boy oh boy.


Reaves Jennifer Reaves Peggie with no last name. Blake Adams. Colin Adams Vinnell. Pachuco River More Brook. Harrison Tatum Kendall. Robert Smith. Briana Simon Simon Craig Meyer. Rebecca Brandt. Branka. Oh boy. What did I do. I Wheatsheaf our teeth. Adell Ishmael Dekker. I'm sorry. Connor with no last name. Karla Nielsen. Heidi Holen Holland.


Suzy White. Rick Sam Sam Squinch. Chris Tracy Crystal Crigger Randy Cloudbursts Reefer Doctor Mandy Frank Maria Lugo. Miranda Armstrong. Jerrett Carroll. Jeremy would no last name. Zane oh fifty three. What happen. You're cooking man. You cook. I'm going then Levak, Amanda Wilson, Heather Bennett, Kali Bird, Erwin D. Schaffer, 006, Melissa Rose, Dwayne Khoder, Jennifer Dubrovsky, Cody Tiree, Mike and Jess Miller, John Cunningham, Stephanie Qadi.


Much more. Jennifer Williams, Ann Marie Concha. Sherry Gregory. Jesse Blue, Dustin Mottley. Kelly Shankland, goddammit. Francisco Arisa, Hollywood. No last name. Michael Sheffield. Gabe Gonzales. Cynthia Person. Laci Cowgill. Cows don't have gills. Jade MacCracken. Oh boy. Amy or Michelle Alvarez. Michelle Brown. Also Tyler Rutherford of Brian Chatfield. Brenna Thornleigh. Jen Huber. Kelly Anderson. Ruth Dunlap Bilbo's Justin S. Jamie Monroe. Kenneth Clay.


Nicky Woods. Jennifer Shrader. Alexandra Blue Wilson. Tabitha nope. That's Talita Crill. Megan Butler. Captain Awesome. Heather Crowe. Chris with no last name. Jay Bel. Briana Hagberg, Layla Carlisle, Bell Gill. Katie McBroom. Jessica Smith. Catherine Payne. Victoria Doyle. Amelia Simmons. Amanda Libbard. What Heather Lake. John Penrod Junior. Marissa would no last name. Melissa Hot Satinsky. Justin Peterson. Brandy Barton. What the fuck.


That was too easy and I ruined it. Jennifer Costa. Melissa Melissa Nicholson. Mark Lisa. Susan Skarsgard. Iris Van Mayhem. Mayhem Jesus. Emily Dylan. Christa Legacy. Lagus Lagus. I don't know. Susie Pich. Susan McFarland DPG Asheton Sova. Dan would no last name. Griffin Murphy. Kayla McCann. Andy Lopez. Erica Niva. John Schroeder Shrader. Sarah King. Bonnie Foster Allen Mason Jr. Lizotte Ashley Levin Dylan Hosie. David Durden Jesus James Robinson.


Jesse would no last name. Patrick Cardosa. Tyler Cardosa. Tyler Edwards. Hayley Davis. Renee Lighthill. Lt Lighthill. Yes. Angela Davis. Jody Powell. Jenny would no last name. Daniella Refugio. Nicole Freeman and Kevin Doughty. Andrew Helvarg Helvey. Jesus Jachin. Nope. That's Zach.


Zach Loebsack, Jerrycan Loebsack.


Thanks Jack.


And keep on Jack and pal Eric Golby Gobeil. Josh Rose Ross. Carl Isaacson E Will Lanco Will Lenca Megan Megan Evony Ebony. Ebony Ingram, Jason Molner Molner. Christine Gillham Volsky. I did ask Melanie Moran, Michael Warick, Megan Bullock, Matt Foster, Josh Lindsey Kayla, Brian Jones, the Dominic Diamond. What does that dynamic's hey the diamond necklace.


We got it. Katie Lt Alere with no last name. Courtney Courtney Close. Luke Salaman Patty Scott. Megan would no last name broke bones Charles Channelers. John Priefer. Christine TICC. Sean Patrick. Nope. That's Kirkpatrick. Zachary Rincón Brinkerhoff.


Courtney Tittel. Jared would no last name. Jenny Garreth. Samantha Fitzgibbon. Jason Coorow. Oh boy.


Carver Culver rebellious Coleman six turtle run cane stripe. Carolynn Peppler Alexis from hospitality podcast. Haley and Brant in plant Kevin Wright and Nathan Alridge and Brett Stetson from that Stetson, Fourche and Jesus Christ. You guys are amazing. Thank you so much with all your hat money.


Thank you everyone so much. Seriously, from the bottom of our dead cold, shriveled up little hearts, we cannot thank you. You make the world go round for us and just thank you for everything you do for us. We we try to hustle as best we can for you and make it all worth it. And because we feel so, we just feel so thankful that we want to make sure that you're happy, basically.


I mean, I know a lot of people because we're comedians and every comic has a fucking podcast and there are thousands of them that you can choose from. And I feel like a flight attendant right now. But thank you for choosing us. Yeah.


And there's only four things to choose from there. Right here. There's literally a million. Then you're choosing us. So thank you. We appreciate that. You didn't just choose the cheapest one billion and they're all free. So how easy is that to pick something?


And you chose us and you've helped us build something that we can't do without you and without you guys. We are one of the other millions of podcasts that people don't give a shit about.


And what a handful that you give a shit about us and not just us, but the show, obviously the show and the things that we make. And you're you're the reason we do it. So thank you.


And what if the people wanted to give a shit about you, Jimmy? How could they find you?


You can give a shit about me at Wassmann Sucks, which is man sucks on Twitter and Instagram. Unless your name is shit. Mary, stay the fuck away. No shit, man. I want to hear from you, Mary. Nope, not at all.


What about you. Yeah, I am over. I'm at Gympie. It's funny, you know how Google you know how to Google search people. Everyone don't you think so do that. Find us keep follow and keep listening every week. Listen to crime and sports on Tuesdays. Damn it. Listen, I hate this movie because I have to keep watching fucking Twilight, do all these goddamn things and keep coming back every single week because, you know, will be.


And I know I'll be back because until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.