Okay. I am really excited. About? About, yeah. I've got some great news.

About?

Well, it's about today.

Oh, what's happening today?

We are... Well, fuck, you're going to find out. It's an all-new SmartList. Smartlist.

Smart. That was you guys.

Hi.

We just had a little connection problem with Will. It sounded like you were Hal from 2001. I'm glad you got it all worked out.

I know me, too.

Was there a Ghost in the Machine?

I guess so.

Wasn't that a band?

That was an album The Police did. It was by The Police. Very good album. By the way, The Police.

I used to listen to them all the time, and we don't hear about them. Well, because Sting went off on his own.

I know, but it's just a good memory.

When he went on his own, is it accurate to say that he defunded The Police?

Wow. I don't know.

It's early. It's early.

It's really early.

It's early. What am I going to do? They're It's not all going to be home runs, J.

B. Jason, so did we miss you on Sunday because we missed because you just weren't feeling it, or were you out of town?

No, I was flying back to work. I left at noon. That's right.

That's not a man, that's not.

Apropos Nothing, Shani. I was sent a picture from you and Eric Idle in a picture together. It looked like it might have been a bowling alley you guys were.

No, it was a roller rink.

Okay, so I was close. That was just yesterday. Pretty close. That was just a date you guys had? Maybe meet me at the roller skating rink? Tell me what you look like so I can recognize you.

First of all, that's crazy. I wonder who sent you that. Was it Kevin Neillen?

Eric Idle and I share an attorney, the great Tom Hoverman.

Okay, great. Yeah, no, it was Kevin Neillen's wife, Susan Yagley, who's a very funny actress person. She decided to have her birthday party at a roller derby, like a roller. What is it called? Roller rink.

Roller-skating rink.

Roller-skating rink, yeah. I was too nervous.

Have you been drinking this morning? Because you feel like you've been-No, it's too early.

He's got a latte going.

Have you been eating?

No, not at all. Have I haven't eaten anything yet?

Scotty, I was really nervous. No, I haven't eaten anything. Scotty, I was really nervous.

Scotty's frying up some donut holes.

But they did have pizza and cake.Thank God.I had all that. It was and popcorn.

I described Sean the The other day is junk food curious. Hey, were there any terrible accidents there at the roller skate rink?

Yeah, because you can really hurt your tailbone.

Do you have any good roller skate rink accident stories?

Can't wait to ask the guest.

Yes. Scotty, I didn't want to put him on because I'm on blood thinners. I'm almost done with my blood thinners because of my A-Fib, right? It was long time. Hang on.

What does a roller skating accident have to do with blood thinners?

Because if you hit your head or something, you could bleed out and die.

Way to think about the worst case scenario.

Anyway, the first 30 seconds, my friend Kevin, who you both met, Kevin and Kerry. Sure. Kevin, bam, mashed his head on the fucking wood floor, wiped out immediately. I ran over to him. I was like, Are you all right? You're right. He's like, Yeah, no. I go, Are you seeing stars? And he's like, No.

Which meant yes. When did they get here?

That's a bummer if he looked at you and he says he's not seeing stars. I mean, that's insult to his injury.

Will, you really are. I'm glad you rebooted.

Yeah, somebody slept really well.

Yeah, I did sleep well.

Anyway, roller derby, but good idea for a birthday party, right? For an adult? No.

Sounds like not a good idea.

It's up there with an ice skating.

You've just described why it's not a good idea.

No, Kevin's totally fine.

Oh, good.

Is he? But I walked because I didn't want to put the skates on. So Scotty had skates on, and I walked with him around the thing while he skated. That's so dumb.

A little bit. It's on brand. Now they've got at these rinks, like an old man, old woman walker that can help you ice skate or roller skate. They didn't have that in my day. You just had to keep a hand on the wall.

Yes, I see that the kids had that. Eric Idle was there. I never met Eric Idle from Monty Python. I was like, Oh, my God.

What a genius.

Yeah, incredible. He's a really nice guy.

Did he ask for a drink Or was he like, Hey, can I get a Diet Coke?

Bring my car up, boy.

He was really nice.

Whose guest is it today? It's my guest. How do you feel about your choice today, Will?

I feel really good. Really? Yeah. You know why? You know what I like? I like international superstars.Oh.

My God.A lot.Unfulfuel..

This is a legit...

You don't often-Are we going to see stars?

You're going to see a major international superstar, and I'm embarrassing him, but it's so true. But on top of it, or not on top, but beneath it, he's a really, really, really great guy that I've had the good fortune of spending a little bit of time with over the years. Super, super good dude. Then you forget that he sold gajillion records. That's a lot. I mean, a gajillion records over the years as a member of a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame band. Then as an equally impressive solo career, he's in the Songwriters Hall of Fame. He has written multiple massive hits, and he's an actor, and he's an incredible philanthropist. He's got a new docuseries about his story. I think it's called Thank You, Good Night. God, who do I know all your friends? If I start saying specific things, you're just going to guess it. I'm just going to say, Guys, please allow me to introduce you to the one, the only, the phenomenal, Mr. Jon Bonjovi.

Wow.

It's a triple A list.

Look, I mean, it is triple-Oh, my God.

No one sings higher.

Yeah. Or better.

Or better.

Or better. Oh, my God. John Bonjovi.

This is so cool. I saw John like six months ago or something last summer, and I was like, Would you ever consider doing our podcast? And he said, Yes. It took a minute to organize. He's a very busy man. I'm so happy you're here. John, good to see you, man.

I'm so happy to be here. I'm a huge fan. I listen all the time, and I watch the entire series that you guys did on the road.

All that crazy documentary.

In the Dead of Winter. Yes, it was great.

Listener, we have John Bonjovi from the White House. You look like you're in the place I would love to live. You're doing well, clearly, right?

This is a nice-I see a lot of house envy just in the pre-roll when you were talking about Sean's house.

Well, look at me. I'm doing a hostage video here. I need to up my situation. But no, and I see a Patriots' jersey. Are you a Patriots fan?

Oh, yeah. Look at it. I see the background in my office. Yes, I'm a huge Patriots fan. That is Bill Belichick's hoodie.

Oh, my God. They're right. The short sleeve. Why did he wear a short-sleeved hoodie?

Fashion statement, right? Yeah.

Fashion. Well, no. Also, he might run hot. He wants the thing, but he also runs a little bit hot. But four-arm hot? My question is, who cuts them? Do you know, John, who cuts them?

I don't know who Who cuts them? No, knowing when you look closely, I think he cuts him with a butter knife.

That just has an odd. He's got sweaty forearms, and I've never met anyone with that. Maybe Thoreau came over and gave him the snip.

It might be Justin. Yeah, maybe. He's giving Justin Thoreau a run for his money. Listen, I think if you're winning that many championships, you're doing something right, and he doesn't want to mess with whatever system he's got going.

Why do you have director's chairs there? Just to hang out in?

Because I'm a groupie. When I did my little movie career, I actually stole the entire chair, not the back. You guys make real movies. I took the whole chair.

You took the whole chair.

You made a bunch of movies. I want to get into that in a minute. You've done a lot, actually quite a surprising amount of acting. Yeah, it's a fascinating career. Yeah, I think that... But you started as a singer, as a musician, and I want to talk about what was that- I want to know how you know you could sing. Well, What was that first thing? Growing up in New Jersey, what was that early music scene, and how did you plug into it? How do you get started?

What do you do?

Any kid that's all of our ages thinks of three things when they're 13. You want to be a baseball player or a rock and roll star or an astronaut. You strum the tennis racket and you think you can sing. When you're playing in the garage as in the school dance with your first band, The benefit of that for me was that the drinking age in New Jersey was 18. At 16, I could be playing in a bar, and I loved it so much that I didn't have the and I didn't have the responsibilities of a career path. You had a job, a higher education thought. It was like music, music, music. I like music. Because my parents were somewhat supportive, their attitude was, if you're going to be in a bar at one or two in in the morning, at least we know where you are. They saw that I was really, really wanting to pursue that career path. Then I was also blessed because I wrote Runaway when I was 20. That's crazy. I got a record deal at 21.

Yeah, that This is your first hit in…

1983, I put that out independently without the band, and then got a record deal, and it's been the same record deal for 40 years.Wow.

That's great.Wow. Amazing. You started singing so young. Was it ever… You That sing so young, was singing uncool at that age? Because when I was a little kid, I always just thought singing was not cool because I was so young. What was it like at your age when you did it?

All the centerfolds of Circus magazine was pretty cool. In the late '70s, it was Led Zeppelin and Aerosmith and Queen and Leonard Skinner and Springsteen and all the... And then remember that Bruce Springsteen and South Side Johnny were from 25 miles south of my house. So chances are with 10 Asbury jukes and seven members of the E Street Band, by playing in those bars, you're going to see real live rock stars. When you're 16, that's like seeing Santa Claus. All of these things were incredibly inspirational. Being a lead singer in a rock band, Jason, sir, is pretty fucking good.

I know. I was going to say more about ballads, probably in my head, as opposed to a rock and roll stage.

No, the ballads work. They work, too.

Are you kidding? Of course, the ballads work.

Are you crazy, J.

B?

Think it through, dude. But, John, are you Here's what blows my mind about your voice. I always comment about how your pipes are just incredible. The fact that, whoa! I mean, that's way, way, way, way up there. And not a lot of people can do that. And strong. Where do you find at such a young age, because people are already trepidacious about opening their mouth and, Am I going to be able to sing? And you're just wailing. Where does that confidence come from to really go for those notes at such a young age and write those songs that are massive?

Naivete. I was too stupid to know any better. I didn't even study. Really? You just got in front of a mic and yelped until it made sense. I regret. That's a high C, Sean, that I is a fucking C.

It's crazy. It's like a soprano.

It's not good. I'm going to be 62 Saturday. I'm 62 years old. Happy birthday. Hitting a high C.

Can you do it?

I can hit it. I can tweak out a sea. Yeah. Right.

So does it start to leave just like Tom braided in phone anymore?

Yeah, the big thing about this huge documentary that we just did, the parallel story, and Sean, you relate to this. I I went a massive surgery for the first time in my life.In.

Your throat for your vocal cord? Yeah.

Oh, wow. I didn't know that. That's scary.

Yeah, that's what I'm going through right now, hence this. But not your typical nodule. Because I really have studied singing for a lot of years. You have to. But I had what's called now a medialization. If you're at all familiar with that, one cord was atrophying while the strong one was pushing the weak one around and I wasn't singing well. I couldn't understand it. This is on the last two years since the surgery. They put a plastic implant outside the cords to strengthen them. I'm still in the rehab stage, and it's disheartening.

John, what was that like when you first noticed that? Do you remember having that first thing of like, Shit, I'm not... Yeah.

And what you would do is compensate. You're like, Well, that didn't work today, so let me do it this way. Let me do it this way. Finally, you're standing on your head trying to hit a note, and you would compensate to a point where it just wasn't very good anymore.

Other things start getting out of whack.

Way out of whack.

Then your mind-How are you feeling now? How is it going?

I'm 20 months post-surgery. I would say I'm 90% there, and you still got to get the ghost sat in the machine as you guys are saying, the ones in your head, the ones that are saying now that you're over back to, let's just say, you don't have to compensate anymore, your mind still has to remind your body that it's fixed. You don't have to compensate any longer.

What about the absolute panic and horror of going under the knife?

When I wake up, I hope that, A, I can speak, and in a perfect world, I can still sing. I'm sure your research on doctors must have been intense.

Yeah, and this is what I do, right?

I'm a singer. Yeah. I knew the doctor that did Julie Andrews, so you and I both know that story, and you went to him, too, and so did I for a lot of years. Yeah. But the guy that I found in Philadelphia, the greatest thing he said after I exhausted everything, every bit of what I call voodoo, every Eastern medicine, every laser, every dietary He's singing lessons, everything I possibly could. I did 15 shows, and it just was not working. I went to see him and I said, I can give you 100% of 80%. He says, Is that good enough? I said, No, I'm going to quit. He said, Now we can talk about this surgery.Oh, wow.And he says, And I guarantee you nothing. He says, But if you work hard, this will give you your best shot. I've been diligent in my recovery and hoping that everything's going to be all right. But I don't know.

Are you bullish on being able to get out there on tour again?

I'm hoping to be. I'm being bluntly honest. If I'm not great, I'm not going.

But hang on. There are plenty of musicians and bands that I would easily pay top dollar to go see. But even if they can't make the song sound like it did when they recorded it fucking 30 years ago, I still want to see them doing it and just move the mic away from their mouth a little bit when they reach for that high seat.

Look at John. John's like, no.

But you're providing more than incredible singing. You guys are-We want to see you, John.

Watch YouTube. I'm not interested. Not interested.

Well, what about your bandmates? Are they understanding of that position or are they saying, fucking, come on?

No, we are actively rehearsing. We did a couple of days this week. Everybody was here in New Jersey just running it hard for a couple of days and measuring the progress. Oh, that's great. Because I have this great new record. I feel optimistic about the record. I love the film. A guy My name, Deepak. Gotham show, Deepak's Son, directed it. It was a two-year, four-part docuseries that will air on Hulu, but I'm very happy with it because it's honest. On the band? Yeah. On our 40th. That's so It's our 40th anniversary right now.

I can't wait to see that.

That's so mind-blowing. 40 years. I feel like I became really, well, like a lot of people, really well aware of you guys with the massive, first of all, your massive hit, Living on a Prayer.

Which-oh, there's tons of them.

Yeah, you can say that. There's tons of them. But that was the-Ten different songs. Of course. For me, that was the first one that really I was like, holy shit. You guys... Do you remember the first time playing that when it was hit and playing in front of an audience and everybody going like, Fuck, yeah.

Maybe not the first time. But what was interesting about that song is we really didn't know what we had because it was so different. It didn't sound like anything on the radio. It had a Motown a baseline. It had the boy/girl story that is almost Shakespearean at the end of the day. You Give Love a Bad Name was the first single on that record, and it was a number one song, and that was pretty evident and obvious that it would be. But when we put out Living on a Prayer, I thought, Yeah, it should be second because who knows what it's going to do? Then, of course, it's one of the biggest pop songs of all time.

We'll be right back.

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Now, back to the show.

Can I tell you something about You Give Love a Bad Name? I guess. My first My first dog was named Buzzie. When I was potty training him, he would go outside and he would poop on the lawn. So I changed the words from what they are to, There's poop on the lawn and you're to blame Buzzie, you give dogs a bad name.

I love that. Thank you, Sean. You're welcome.

There's poop on the lawn and you're to blame Buzzie, you give dogs.

This is the family member that you just stop inviting. No, we're not having Thanksgiving this year, Sean. Sorry.

But wait, I have other stories.

Sean, tell me more about your music career, because I didn't get the chance, but Dorothea saw the play. My wife saw the play and was talking so incredibly about not only your playing, but your singing as well. How did you keep it eight days a week?

Well, that's It was just a play. I didn't sing, but I played.

You didn't have to sing?

No, I'll never do that again.

But his voice, she was probably talking about he did a whole different voice for this character. I remember Will and I. Will, did we look at each other? When he came out, I think we've told the story.

It was such a big swing.

A big swing. We looked each other like, Oh, boy, here we fucking go.

Because it's one of those moments, John, where you're like, it's either going to be great or it's going to be terrible.

What are we going to say to him backstage? 30 seconds past that point, it's like, Oh, no, we're in good hands. He's pulling this off. It was a big... It was a different voice, a whole gait and everything.

I said to Jason when I saw him right after the show, I said, Can I guess your thought bubble when I first came out. He said, Yeah. It was just, Uh-oh.

Wait, John, did you ever do Broadway? Did you ever do a show on Broadway? No. God, you were great.

The stage to me is the stage. Yeah, of course. I didn't need that. I didn't need that even in the learning experience. For me, when I went in to try to learn to act, and I studied for a couple of years before I ever even went for an audition, It was the opportunity to grow in the arts. It was just a different avenue in the arts that I could bring that back then to the fold, different material to write about, different humility standing on the audition line being turned down before you even walked into the room. All of that humility that I brought back while I was learning about the craft was incredibly informative.

What was your feeling about that as you were starting to learn about acting and study it? Because I'm always a little pessimistic about if it's something we can learn to do. I think it's all something we all know how to do. It's just freeing yourself up. But did you think it was like, Oh, this is a real craft, a real art form that I'm enjoying? Or were you like, Oh, this is just learning how to be full of shit? I mean, both are valid, both are true, but there's just different perspectives on what it is. Where did it find itself on you?

I just have too much respect for you all. I immensely respect the craft that I wouldn't dare think that even Pacino or De Nero, if I put a microphone in their face and said, sing me a song, that they'd be any good at it. I think in order to be good at it, you should learn how to do it. Yeah, amen. I studied for two years, privately, not in classes, but privately, until I was confident enough to even try to get an audition. I had too much respect for it.

What was the one thing that made you feel like you wanted to take on that challenge of expanding your creative juices from music to acting.

I had had five records by that point, and Slippery was our third. It was a monster. New Jersey was a monster. Then I wrote the soundtrack to the Young Guns record, and I win all the awards with that. There was this stupid ego moment in the band's history where you're like, you think you're too smart. The incredible thing about starting over with something in the arts that you know nothing about, but you've had so many other life experiences, brings you a great humility. And so when you take that back to music, it was an opportunity for me to share that with the guys and for them to then learn from that. It humbled all of us to go. I think that's a big reason why when we went into the '90s and the grunge movement happened, we didn't even slow down. We still had hits. We still kept going. We had more international growth than ever. And all of that was, I think, a direct result of my sitting in that basement apartment in Manhattan with Harold Guskin for years, getting yelled at. And so I really, really loved the process acting. The bitch was whenever, and you guys know this well, I would go in and they'd say, anytime you get a spark in this town, you take off for a year and go on the road.

We don't think you're serious about it. I said, I'm fucking serious about it, but you pay me two cents, and I'm six on the call sheet. What am I going to It's a big cut. There's a stadium waiting wherever.

What was that first film? I remember you did-Moonlight and Valentino was a girly movie. Moonlight and Valentino? Yes. Yeah.

Gwyneth and Whoopie and Kathleen Turner and It was Perkins.

Do you remember the... Let's talk about that. You talk about it, but you're a massive international superstar, rock star, and then you go on the set of this movie, and it's a new thing that you've just been learning about that first day on set, that first take.

Oh, yeah. I say I'll never forget it. The director was a guy named David Onspot, who had done Whooshers and Rudy. He was a guy's guy writing those movies. He's got four ladies as his stars. I'm the cute house painter. We're doing take two, take three, take four. After the girls are giving him one take a piece and walking off the set, and he's going, take two, take three. I walked over to him. I said, David, I'm sorry. We have to do so many takes. I'll pay for the film. He said, This is how we make movies.

I'll pay for the film.

That's so sweet. Now, were you encouraged?

It must have been nerve-wracking, though.

Yeah, I bet it was nerve-wracking. But did you Did you find some encouragement and inspiration that you weren't the first of Sting and David Bowie? They did some great performances. Was that inspirational for you?

No, because they'd all, by definition, weren't successful. You may look back and think that those movies were cool, but we were, as musicians, told, you do either or. You Bowie and Madonna and whatever. No, there's musicians that want to act. They're not allowed to freely do both the way Sinatra could.

But what were your expectations? You weren't possibly looking to match your level of success with acting that you had in music.

It wasn't based on success, it was based on opportunity. So that the opportunities just kept going down and down and down, and then suddenly you're making an indie to an indie, and I'm sitting on the curve outside of CAA, like with a tear in my eye.

What have I done? But did you find that... I mentioned that you're in the Songwriters Hall of Fame. You're such a great songwriter and lyricist and music and everything. Did you find when you were acting throughout the years, did you find that common thing as an artist as you're doing it, the beats of it? Was there a commonality between being a performer, being a singer, songwriter, and an actor? What was that?

I think there are commonalities. But again, I think the biggest thing to me was that finding something else in the arts that gave me an opportunity to grow. It wasn't like I went from singing to building cars. One has nothing at all to do with the other. This is another way to emote. This is another way to tell a story. This is more information for me to write about because all I had to write about between '21 and '30 was life on the road, to be honest with you. I was nowhere near as seasoned a as Bob Dylan or Woody Guthrie. I was writing pop songs in a rock and roll band in a very sheltered, middle-American, white, suburban life. So going and learning about, I don't know, Tennessee Williams and coming home and writing something and thinking, why did I get to write Blaze of Glory and the whole young gun soundtrack when my hand's on a script? I know how to do that.

Does it still hold interest for you? Where does it sit now for you, the acting?

I would have to stop doing music and go back to really working hard on the craft. I have far too much respect for it to think, Sure, send me a roll. I'm ready to go.

Well, is it sitting there in second position? Second position. As you start to see, let's see how the voice does. If the voice is not to your standards, maybe we can look forward to seeing more acting from you?

I wouldn't say no for sure. I would just make sure I did it right.

What about producing music or producing other artists?

I did all that early on. I don't need any more egos in the studio. I got a big enough one myself.

Okay, well, Sean, you can log off. Hey, did you...

Forgive me. Did you see the We are the World documentary? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Wasn't that... Yeah. Incredible. I want to see that. All those people coming together.

Wow. I'd never even thought about that they were there through the night. Yeah, I know. At 6:00 in the morning, they're waiting for their solo line. Bruce and Cindy Lauper are just cock-eye still, just being good sports about it.

I mean, you were missed in that.

I was like, Where's-I was just a little Too young. I had two albums out by that point. I wasn't big enough. Oh, all right. I wasn't big enough yet.

But go back to the performing in big arenas and shows and stuff and fans and dealing with fans and stuff like that. Was there any moment Have you ever had any crazy happening on stage with a fan that was just completely through the show?

Sure. I mean, all the cliché stuff.

People screaming and rushing the stage.

Curls throw you their underwear I mean, you're there. Everybody got to be.

That's not even original because you know what I mean? It's every kid got to be Justin Bieber to Justin Timberlake, all the way back to Elvis. It's Harry Style, all How do you or any of those people you just mentioned avoid the intoxication and complete transitioning into, Well, I'm God, and it's never going to be anything different, and you end up buying the ego that you, in retrospect, should have been renting.

But how do you avoid that big pitfall of, It's never going to be any less than this, because you're in a 360 of idolatria Realization that it's got to be impossible to not-Or to make right size.jump into. Yeah.

I don't know. For me, it was- Because you seem so balanced. Not being there where you all are. For me, that was one thing. I bought the house in Malibu. Staying out of California. I bought the house on the beach in Malibu, and my wife and I looked at each other and said, not for me. Because I knew what the lifestyle was, and we were caught up in it. A lot of those people, we had a house right on the beach. We're all at the height of everybody's craziness. And that was one of the things that we said, let's go back to New Jersey where there's no Joneses to keep up with. Let's go back to what we know.

You mentioned it, John, your wife, Dorothea, who I've also had the great pleasure and honor of spending a little bit of time with and getting to know a little bit. And she's such an awesome person. And I was thinking like, yeah, you didn't fall into any of those pitfalls. You grew up, and when I say grew up, I mean, like, sir, your 20s, those formative years, you were a massive star. You and Dorothea, were you guys in it together? Did that help keep you grounded?

Absolutely. We've been together since high school. For us, that was, yeah, we grew together. So she's seen the whole ride. And then she didn't have to buy into something, or I didn't have to doubt her commitment to it. And then I could fall in the gutter her throughout the course of it, and she could say, Okay, I got it. I know why. Let's pick it up and go from here. I give her the credit for so much of it.

How lucky are you that you have that? You had this partner with you. Oh, I know.

We're married 35 years already.

Bonna went through the same thing. It's just incredible.

John, we always talk about two people who are in the music world about chicken and the jag. Do you write the lyrics? Do you write the music first. Talk about your process. What inspires you to write a certain way as opposed to other? And do you like your voice lends itself to ballads so much more than the other stuff? And it's all great, but you have such a lyric voice.

Well, thank you. It's come both ways. But for me, I would like to say just a slim majority of it comes from a title first, because for me, that dictates the feel of the music. Then I write the New York.

It's like something that you…

Want a dead or Alive is that a feeling of an open decord. It calls for that. Better Roses would call for something else. It was meant to be written on a piano. But the process depends on the situation. We had a record out in the midst of COVID called 2020, and it was a topical record. It covered everything from gun control to George Floyd to COVID, to an introspective topical record, released into a black hole of COVID that I couldn't promote it couldn't tour. It's good that I was able to do that. I was very proud of it. This record, post-surgery, and in the process, because there's no happy ending yet, is that I'm finding joy for the first time in a decade. I'm truly finding joy. I haven't had joy in a decade.

Why? And that sucked because of the That voice. Because of the voice, yeah.

I was honored just recently at this Music Cares event two weeks ago, three weeks ago in LA. The Grammys pick one person to celebrate their catalog, and in my case, the philanthropy.

Michael McDonald's involved withThat's what you're doing now.

Yeah. I was this year's not an honore. On the Saturday morning after the night, I woke up and I was like, Something's weird. I went, I know what it is. It's the first time In 10 years, the only voice in my head was mine. No doubt, no fear, no second thoughts. It's just I had fun last night.

Would you have, despite the I would beat myself this shit for the last decade.

I would have beat myself to shit for the last decade. I would have beat myself silly.

I do it daily anyway, and I don't have anything wrong with that.

I don't like that, Sean. I'm fucking tired of it. Tell me how you stop doing it.

What, beating yourself up?

Yeah.

But you know what I always say, we were talking about this a while ago. If beating yourself up or putting yourself down, if that cured you, then we'd all be fixed, right? It doesn't work. It just doesn't work. Oh, right. You know?

It's hard to stop that voice in your head that you're probably a perfectionist. Anything less than, you start beating yourself up. I always beat myself up when I leave any social event at all. I'll get in the car, I'll be like, God, was that okay? I said that to that person. Personality hangover, we call it.Personality hangover.Yeah, exactly.

Sean said to me once, I remember you said, Nobody's harder on me than myself. I said, Give me a shot.

That's true.

But, John, what was bringing on the beating yourself up? Just that you weren't having access to do your stuff. You were just-Yeah, it was I was saying that the only thing that's ever been up my nose is my finger.

And now suddenly God's taking away my tools. And I'm like, I'm at my witz end. And the crazy doctor says, I don't know what it is, but I just gave you all my trust. You don't know what it is. Now I'm aimlessly out there. Take more drugs for it. Take another shot for it. Right. Sean can relate, right?

And I'm going down this-I mean, when I did Not the recent Broadway show, but I did another musical.

What was it called?

Promises, Promises. Anyway, thanks. I was on prednizone for a year. Yep. Just because it's Always inflamed. It's no life. It's no life.

No. It gets you puffy.It.

Gets you a little puffy.

There's Jason. I thought your mic was not working for a second.

We will be right back.

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John, with the frustration of not being able to perform and to go out there and throw your fastball was probably at the same time that you were probably more loaded with quality ideas and inspiration for stuff to write. Because I just find the older we get, the smarter we get, the better we are at everything. Are you now approaching a possible where they match? I'm hoping.

I think I'm on the verge. I think I'm I'm on the verge of that. Yeah. These last couple of records. I love that attitude. That I couldn't fully celebrate these last couple of records. I'm hoping and believing that I'm going to have that opportunity again when we do get to go out. Yeah, that's the hope.

Honestly, John, that attitude, you have that... You ooze positivity. I will say, I didn't realize that you were going through all this. And anytime I see you, you've always got such a great attitude. You come into a room, you shine light, you ask people how they're doing. I love that about you. I think it's really great. I also know you do a lot of philanthropy as well, right? You got the John Bonjovi Soul Foundation.

Is that what it is? The foundation and the kitchens, yeah.

The kitchens. I mean, this is great. Talk to us a little bit about what you do. These guys don't know about this stuff. It's awesome.

Kitchens. A thousand years ago, 20 years ago, I used to own an arena football team. My aspirations were to someday own an NFL team, and it was me cutting my teeth. But in order to win in the community in Philadelphia, I said, We got to be more philanthropic than everyone. That was my first foray into this. We started to find something that anyone, everyone could relate to, which was affordable housing and hunger. I started to do that. And everybody was like, Yeah, bravo. Good job. Habitat for Humanity does this every day. When the economic downturn of 2008 happened, Tertia said, Now you got to feed the people in the houses you've built. I was like, Hmm. And then stream of consciousness, she just lays out a plan for this thing that we now call the JBJ Soul Kitchens. Simply put, if any of you guys came and laid 30 bucks on the table, it would cover your meal and the meal of somebody else who can't afford to pay. It empowers people because we ask them if they can't pay anything to volunteer. If you guys were to come and didn't volunteer, you'd think you're missing the party because everybody Everybody's working in the garden or bussing a table or washing a dish, folding napkins.

It's not difficult labor, but when they feel empowered and they've earned their certificate to not only pay for their meal, but perhaps it's a kid, he comes back with his entire family, and you've got that pride in a teenager bringing his family back and feeding them. It's all farm to table. We take no government subsidies. So we did our first one in an auto body shop that we converted into this restaurant. Second one, we built after Hurricane Sandy in New Jersey here, and we have all this service providing around at a food pantry, a food bank, culinary program. Then the third one and the fourth one, this blows people's minds, are on college campuses because we were aware, but most people think, Wait a minute, I just sent my kid to the university. Well, guess what? They're not necessarily eating ramen by choice. They don't have any money. So we came to that realization many years ago, and we put one on two different university campuses here in New Jersey. So we currently have four of those restaurants. And then myself and our foundation fund the Shortfall. And we've been doing that for 12, 13 years now.

That's so cool. My mom started a... She was one-a-half who started a food bank for people in the Chicagoland area called Northern Illinois Food Bank, very similar to what you're doing. That's her legacy, and she's still remembered there. It's part of Second Harvest, which I'm sure you know. Yeah.

I bet you it gave her hard work but great joy.

No, Will, I want to go first. She was just half on it. She just kept an eye on part of it.

I was going to say she could have called it eye on hunger. Sean's mom. My mom had one eye.

Jesus God.

It's a nice little- She had two.

One of them was wooden.

She did have it. One of them was made of wood. No, it wasn't wooden. It was glass.

It was glass. It was stick.

He brought it out on stage and we held it.

The eye. Yeah, it's in a nice box.

His mom's eye. We held it. Yeah, for real.

Nice guys. You call them your friends.

Wait, so, John, what the hell is Bon Jovi? What nationality is that?

What the hell is Bon Jovi? What question is that?

Sean, can I talk to you for a second?

What the hell is Bon Jovi?

No, I mean,It's Italian. Okay, since I was a kid, I thought you made that name up.

B-o-n-g-i-o-v-i.

Oh, really?

B-o-n-g-i-o-v-i. B-o-n, the same way. G-i, which in Italian, finetics is the J sound. Yeah, okay. It was pronounced the same way, but it's B-O-N-G-I instead of a J.

It's always been two separate words?

No, it's just this silly American that couldn't figure it out. In truth, when I got the record deal and I had gotten the band together to help play Runaway because I had it on the radio all over the country, I went to the record company said, We got an idea. It should be you. I went, How about if it's we? If you remember Van Halen Yeah. I was like, We make it two words.

Oh, very good.

This is good.Oh.

That's great.In.

Truth, it was a little bit of that in the '80s because I didn't want to be a solo artist. I really knew that that's too much heat. Yeah.

Because when I was a kid, I thought it was you guys were all related.

The worst guy, the worst fair weather fan will come up to you on the street and go, Hey, Bon. No, it's not Bon, motherfucker. You're not a very big fan.

Hey, on the music industry business, because our industry is going through a bit of a transition now. Your business started much earlier with the transition. How do you feel that the industry is is doing and adapting? Are you a fan of the current state of things?

I think we've at least hit a place now where there's stability. I've said it before. We, my band and I at this time, and those around our period, were there for what was called the Gold Rush, when CDs were invented and everybody bought their record collection again, and you could sell 20 million copies of an album. I was fortunate enough to have been in the heat of that. Nowadays, because they finally settled on streaming, I'm okay with it. I wish, and I blame Apple for breaking up the CD, the work of art, the book. They sold you one chapter of The Book at a time instead of the entire book. I was always pissed off about that. Their attitude was, We're going to sell you one song at a time so you don't have to buy the whole album. Well, wait a minute. I just wrote the whole album. I'm excited about the whole album. I want to as a whole. I've always been pissed off since the advent of the iPod, but I think we've reached this stable place with streaming. In this current state of affairs for the young talent, what was also daunting was that the record companies now aren't signing you because you just wrote a great song.

They want to know how many likes you've got on social media, which is a sin. But on the other hand, it affords the world the opportunity to have another Bob Dylan because there was a period in time where unless you sounded like you could sing on American Idol, you weren't going to get a record deal. So the internet allows for a Bob Dylan The streaming allows for some stability, even though it's a low rate, but it's something. And this is the new world order.

But it's obligating you guys to go out and do a bunch of touring in order to make a bunch of money, and that's got to be exhausting.

It's still as criminal as it ever was. It's harder on the young band. How are they going to support themselves on the road if they don't have any record money or there's tour support and all the things that we had 40 years ago that they're not going to have now. I've heard and have been in on conversations, but it's obviously not something I can directly relate to. It's not as big a business for the young kid coming up. It's like, I get to do that, but I'm also going to have to do this and this in order to make a living.

It's the same with all entertainment. It feels like you have to learn how to do it all.

I think about all the time starting as a young actor today, as opposed to when we started out and you could go out and you get a job, you audition for stuff, you're in the mix, you audition for pilots, you get a movie, do all that. Because now it's such a free-for-all.

Or you could do a commercial and you could expect $30,000 by the time it's done, it's run. Now, it's all non-union.

Yeah, you could do a Golden Grahams commercial, you know what I mean? Has anybody ever done a Golden Grahams commercial?

Yeah, I'm in a go-cart in that one.

My son is a young, aspiring actor, and he would have that magic when he walked into a room for an audition But because he came up during COVID and now everything is on these Zooms, and I think that all those casting agents are missing out on the personality of the actor or actress coming in. Totally agree. And winning your heart, not just reading their lines.

I will tell you. I will tell you, though, I'm in the middle of casting something right now, and none of these casting sessions are in person. They're all on Zoom. I am so jealous that the actors are not stuck in what was always for me, the most stressful thing I could ever do.

Yeah, that's true, too.

Was waiting in the lobby, hearing the actor before me doing it, killing, them being late, me going over my sides and over my sides, and then going in, having to do the the bullshit talking with them, and now I'm sweating, and I'm having to be... And then I got to switch into acting gear, and then I got to do... It was so nerve-wracking. The fact that they get to do it on Zoom now, to me, it's much less stress.

But I think there's always been a flaw in that, Jay, because you shouldn't just put all the actors up for the same role in one room. It's just, is there another way to do it? Schedule them-The whole thing is torture.

Yeah, it's a song. I don't know, but there's something to also going Going through that experience. As somebody who... I grew up in New York in the '90s, in my '20s, and went on a million auditions and bombed a bunch, and I learned so much from that process. Then also, conversely, when I did start having success, I really appreciated. It wasn't until my '30s that I had any success, and I really appreciated because I had gone through that for so many years and was starving.

I also made some friends during the process, so they're missing out on I made a lot of friends.

A lot of friends.

I just think that they missed the personality.

I agree, John.

Whoeing that casting agent some and letting them see that spark.

Knowing whether they're going to be a problem on set. Do they have nice people?

Perhaps. John, I think that you're totally on to something. I was also just thinking about what you were saying before about albums and when you would write an album. I was just thinking like, you remember that feeling? You really hit on something. That feeling as a kid of getting an album and taking it home and taking the plastic off it and taking the sleeve out and reading the lyrics and listening to every freaking song.

How does it start? How does it start? And then the third song. Is it my imagination or is the third song always one that kicks your ass?

That's the single, right? That's theYeah. Okay. All right.

Wait, I didn't know that. Is that by design?

It just happens to be this common place. You start slow and then you nail them.

Then there's a balance.

Living on a Prayer was the third track on super. Was it really?

There you go.

Hey, give me the first note.

Are you buy a piano or a guitar or anything? Give me the first note of the chorus. Sean, are you going to sing? I'm going to try it. Oh, please. Thank you.

Come on. Well, we're out of time, everybody.

I'm not that close.

Now you are. Stay tuned for There's some smartness extras where you can enjoy some of Sean's.

What's that?

It's minor. We got it.

Can you hear that? Yes.

I had to run across the room and bang on the piano, but B minor is seated. It's not the first note, but it's up and active? Yeah, it's a G. Yeah. Yeah. Go on. No.

It's so high.

It's so high.

It's crazy. You know what you do then is you hold the microphone now.

Just It sounds like you're furious. Let the audience do it. You hold the mic over the audience, you go, Buzzy, you give dogs a bad name.

But, John, you know what? Whenever your songs come on the radio in the car, I will pretend I'm you and I will scream my head off.

Love that. It's impossible not to just absolutely belt out one of your songs, John, when they come on.

It's just the best. Dude, we've taken up too much of your time already. You're so much fun. You're the man. John, When you're coming to town, let's hang out.

I would love that.

Nothing would make me happy.

You're never coming. You're never coming.

Very brave.

Don't get me your number.

No, let's do it in New York. That would be great. That'd be awesome. Then we'll do it. J. B. Is in New York for the next six months.

Let's do it.

Yeah, please. Let's get together. Cool, guys. This was really a joy.

Thanks for doing it. Likewise. John, you're such a great dude. You're such a cool dude. Yeah, and such a great artist. Thank you for taking the time.Thank.

You all. Wish you all the best, man.

Can't wait to see you again.Thanks.

Guys.thank you, John.

All right, have a good one.Fly down. All right, pal. The great Jon Bonjovi. He's great. So fucking easy. They don't make him like that anymore. The great Jon Bon Jovi just sounds like a little like we need a better word than great.

J. B, you were just... Yeah.

I just said the great Jon Bon Jovi, but you're right. It doesn't seem like it's enough. Right. Well, Who's doing it? What they did, who's doing that today? There isn't a size of a band today like that.

It's all been diluted a bit. I didn't even ask him about the prep for a show with the hairspray and the hair and the outfits and the energy.

Those were all wigs.

All wigs. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. No, it's super easy to hang out with.

Yeah, he's such a good guy. Where did you meet him, Will? I met him. We have a bunch of mutual friends, and obviously-Long Island. Yeah, just over the years. He is one of those guys. Every time you see him, he's very warm and very generous with people. Actually, one time I had lunch with him. Years ago, we were down on vacation, and Archie was maybe a year old.

It feels like this could be a St. Bart story.

Go ahead.

We were down on vacation. Archie got all these little bites all over. We didn't know what was going on. We were freaking out. You got a one-year-old, you're like, What's going on? We're in the middle of nowhere. John helped us call a friend who got us in to get him looked at. It was great.

He was very sweet. I love that. He was a very sweet guy. Yeah, he seems super cool. That Slippery When Wet album was so huge. That's where that living on a Prayer song was.

But there was another song on there.Oh, my God. Here we go.It.

Was called Really, it's a real song. I know. I know. I'm sorry. Do you have another appointment? Because this is quick.

No, it's called Never Say Good Bye. It's a real song. We're going That's a real song. You know what your nickname is? Shoehorn. Because you just turn a shoehorn.

You're always looking for a way out. We always got you on the tail. Are you late? No. Smart. Smart. Lass. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant-Terry, Rob Armjardf, and Bennett Barbego.

Smart. Smart. Smartless. If you like SmartLess, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wundry Plus in the WNDYRI app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wndyri. Com/survey. Hello, I'm Johnny Knoxfield. I'm Elna Baker, and we have a new podcast. It's called Pretty Sure I Can Fly. Yes, we've teamed up with my friends and bar mates from SmartLust to create a podcast where we talk to folks who have more balls in a bowling alley. People who accomplish something extraordinary despite people telling them that it couldn't or shouldn't be done.

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Balloonists.

Bob Sletters. And big wave surfers.

People who lay their balls on an envol and hand the other fellow the hammer.

Okay. I bet you've actually done that, Johnny. Maybe for sweeps. Follow Pretty Sure I Can Fly on the WNDRI app. Or wherever you get your podcast.

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