Voted the best podcast of all time. I had a laugh riot. Smartless brings all the laughs when three friends, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and Will Arnett, get together and just chop it up and spit it out. It's SmartLess, and it's... Wait, am I not doing an ad for the... No, it's just a cold open. Okay. You're listening to Smartless.

Smart.

Lies.

Smart.

Lies. Smart. Lies.

Smart. Lies.

Sean, you seem distracted this morning. Have you noticed?

Have I noticed? No, he's all pissed off.

He had to reboot. Yeah, I had to reboot my computer. I hate when that happens. I don't like being late. I don't like being the guy that That's the trouble.

I don't like being third. You don't like being third. Will was third today.

No, that's not true. Technically, second. I was third.

Practically, second, but technically third because Sean was here earlier.

You know what? I thought that I had more time, and I went, and actually, I went to the same guy that Sean did who helped him with this carpal tunnel, Tarek. I was standing on a rack- Don't drop Tarek's name in hopes of getting a break on your medical bill from him.

Okay? That was pathetic.

Jason, have you ever gone to him?

Let's have the last name, too.

Go Jason, have you been to him?

Yes, I have. You have now?

Oh, yeah. Oh, really?

Why don't you- Well, yeah. I had a bad back at some point. Tarek Godra. I still do.

Tarek Godra. He helped to lean.

Yeah. He's great. Here comes your discount.

The reason I was late, I was standing on a racquetball because as you know, I have a bad... I had to bail out- Toe? From my ham string last week. I had to bail out a golf. Remember, you and I were with Charlie and Robin, and it got He said that there was basically buildup on my ham string around my sciatic nerve. Fuck, man, I couldn't even sit down.

Is it better now? Yeah. How's it doing?

Much better. He's helped it out a lot.

What do you got to do now to maintain it?

He made you stand on a racquetball. That fixed it?

Yeah, that was part of it. No, my posture is terrible. Pillow under your knees when you sleep, how you sit, all this stuff.

Anything about eating cereal for dinner?

He said, Double down. Oh, did he? He said, Double down on that. Instead of milk, ice cream, like a real soft serve ice cream. What a doctor. Sean just got a boner.

Sean, can I ask you a question? So earlier this morning, before I record here, just half hour ago, I'm on a business call, because it's a work day. We're up with a business, man. Yeah, a business call. I couldn't take the incoming phone call from Mr. Arnett. Just let it go to voicemail. Hang up the business call, check my voicemail. There's no message. Just a record that he's called. Is that what he does with you?

No, that's what- He just won't leave a message because he's trying to hide the fact that he tried to call and then I didn't pick up, and so he's too embarrassed to leave a message. No, but do you leave a message? I never leave a message either.

Of course, I leave a message. Or at least I'll text afterwards and say, Hey, I tried you.

Yeah, I'll do that sometimes, but the call is the message. Okay, Boomer, listen.

No, it's not enough that there's just a recent call from you. That doesn't qualify. You got to leave me a message if you want to call back.

Honestly, no offense to Chris Bermond at ESPN, but I think your new nickname might be Boomer.

So listen, Boomer, here's the deal.

I will say this. What we do now is we don't leave messages because there's a record that I called, and so you can decide whether or not. That's your message.

That's the message.

That's the message. So that's official, or were you just trying to hide the fact that you're stalking me like some wounded ex-boyfriend?

Hey, by the way, do you think I wanted to talk to you? I had to ask you something.

Well, let's have it now.

Look at this attitude. Do you think I want to deal with this?

Do you think I want to deal- Text it.

It's like, imagine a smile. No, because it's easier. To Jason's credit, to your credit, I will always text you, Hey, do you got a second? Or, Hey, I want to chat with you. Exactly. You call me right away. That's what folks do nowadays, Will. You call me almost instantly.

Well, I was just trying. You know what? You know what? I was just trying to make it easy and streamline it. I was trying to cold call you. Yeah, because we have a relationship that was established on calling years ago. When did we decide that we were going to text first? I didn't get that text.

Now that I got you all warmed up and ready for the first round, let's go out there and meet our fighter. Who we got, Arnett.

By the way, our buddy Bradley got seven Oscar nominations for My Shorts. He sure as fuck did.

Wait, he did? He should have got director. God damn it. That's the best directed film of the last decade.

I agree. I totally agree. I agree. It's fucking, it's unbelievable.

It's unbelievable. Blown away. Listener, there's no better film this year than Mice Joe. I agree. Full stop. I agree.

Full stop. To do what he did with that film is so incredible. It's so different. Nobody's doing anything like that.

When I first saw it, I was blown away.

It's a stunning piece of work. I hope he takes solace in the fact that the academy will probably look at this and Star is Born as, Okay, he did it twice really, really well. So this next one, we're going to give him at least a nomination, if not the statue.

It'd be great if they did it for the next one.

Oh, yeah, exactly, Willy. That would be great.

That would be nice.

That would be great. Willy's got one to sign up with, Bradley.

Speaking of the Academy Awards, our fellow seems to got himself an Academy Award nomination Coushian.

Today?

Yeah, not today. But he has had an academy. I looked at his... He's one of those guys, he's got his own award nomination page on Wikipedia because there's so many that they can't even fit in his regular page.

Now I'm getting nervous.

Same goes with his filmography, it's got its own fucking page, which most of the times it would bum you out. But with this guy, it's okay because he's one of the good dudes. Really? He has done stuff. I mean, you're going to remember a lot of this stuff. Johnny Betz from Private Eye, Taylor Rollator from 21 Jump Street. You might know him as Glenn from Finish Line. You might know him as Jack Passion from Wanneca Road. Probably Probably not, but you might know him more as Gurnie Hallek from Dune or Thanos from Avengers Endgame, or Dan White, for which he was nominated for an Academy Award for 2008's Milk. Guys, It's the unbelievably talented, the explosion that is my favorite J. B. Josh Brolin. Oh, Josh.

It was just talking about you this morning.

When you started When I started that resume, I go, What the fuck did-The stuff you tried to bury.

What is he doing?

Yeah.

Dude, Brolin, I'm sorry. All the things that you've never seen and don't remember, welcome our guest.

If he just said Goonies, I would have guessed it in two seconds.

Well, fuck, I didn't want to say Goonies because I was trying to go old first. And so if I said Goonies, fucking Sean would have gone, It's John Brolin.

Josh, does Goonies follow you around like Teen Wolf 2 follows me around?

Yeah, but how proud of Teen Wolf for you. Honestly.

But no, but Are you?

There was a point with Goonies where it was like, Please God, give me another movie, any movie that anybody will see.

But Goonies was a great film. Teen Wolf 2 had its challenges. It wasn't for trying. But thank God it has turned into just kitsch in our resume, right?

But it's not just Teen Wolf 2, it's Teen Wolf also. I just want to make-Yeah, T-O-O.

This was not a sequel. Teen Wolf also. I wouldn't dare.

I know. Are they going to do another one? Do you get that?

Yeah, Teen Wolf 3 and 3D. It's in deep development right now. Who's better than Josh Brolin? I know. Look at this.

I am so psyched to settle in with JB. I am so psyched you're here, dude.

So nice to meet you.

Let's start with what you guys met on the set Of what was that?

Well, we met before a little bit, but we both... I didn't want to bring up the Razzie nominated Jona Hex. Why don't you tell the story, if you're willing to tell the story.

Tell the story that you've told me when you were over at my house one day, you told me that you were walking by my trailer, and what did you see? Do you remember this?

It was the end of a long day. We were shooting this scene where we came into... We were on horseback. Do you remember that, Josh, in that park, and they set up the Old Town? John Gallagher and I came in leading. I did not know how to ride a horse. They taught me-Shocker. Road into town. Anyway, so it was like a dusty day. We'd been on horseback all day, and I walked by. Josh had this incredible makeup for Johnny Hex that took hours to put on. He could barely move. He could speak out of one side of his mouth. The other one had this prosthetic on that took forever.

And then had a hole in the prosthetic.

And a hole in the prosthetic. So I walked by his trailer, and it's 6:00 PM. We've been shooting 12 hours. It's hot as fucking New Orleans, like a thousand degrees. And Josh is sitting on the steps of his trailer with a cigarette sticking out of the hole of his prosthetic.

And I had to put a finger over the hole in order to be able to inhale the cigarette. And I had, what else did I have?

And he was holding a bottle of whiskey.

Maker's Mark.

He was holding a bottle of Maker's Mark in his fucking hand drinking.

At 11 o'clock in the morning.

It sounded like you had a triple banger, too, or a double banger.

It was a little later than that, but it was still- The fact that I blame Jona Hex on anybody else is a fucking joke other than me.

I got to see that movie, man.

You have to.

It looked handsome. The trailer looked great.

It did look like a cowboy. I will tell you that much. I was like, this motherfucker came to fucking play.

Can I tell you a quick story about that, actually? We went to the premiere and we're looking in the studio, took over that movie, and they made it even worse than it already was. It wasn't that bad. It really wasn't that bad. But We left early, as one does at their own premiere. Sure. There was a guy in a wheelchair that left just before me that didn't see that I left behind him when my wife and I left the door. He thought he was by himself, and he was wheeling himself out. He said, Eighty-six minutes of a waste of fucking life.

That's really funny.

The worst review I've ever gotten.

I'd rather lose the other leg than see that shit. Yeah, exactly.

It's really funny.

Sorry to. Yeah, go ahead. I don't want to rain on your parade, but just let me know if it's now or 40 minutes, I can talk about Dune because I have 800,000 questions.

Okay, you can talk about Dune anytime If you want. You can start now if you want, I was going to start a little further back than his most recent project he's working on. I'll follow you. Josh, so I wanted to talk, man. It's so great to have you. You're one of the all-time great dudes, and I really mean that just outside of even The shit that we do, you're a great dude. You started, obviously, your dad was in the business, your mom was in the business, and so you started with that. And yet, it took you a minute. You weren't like a child actor in the sense that when you were first young, you weren't really doing it. Am I right about that? You were outside of LA, and then you came back to it.

Is that true? I was born in LA. I was born in Santa Monica, which goes back five generations, I believe. St. John's? St. John's, where my father was born and my grandfather was born. Holy shit. And my kid, two of my kids were born in St. John's. No, I was raised. We left the valley. I believe it was Chatsworth when I was five, and we went to Pasarobles. My mom was in the business as an assistant casting director, but that was it. Primarily, she ran a wildlife way station and took wild animals away from people who had illegally taken them out of the wild and had them jailed. My mother was a five foot three Texan blonde tornado.

I smell a real compelling one hour episodic.

Yeah, right?

Yeah.

And by the way, we just wrote a book that's going to be out in November 19th that I didn't really know what the book was, and it's an unconventional memoir, but it's very mother heavy.

Fucking A.

What's the name of it? Plug It.

I can't Plug It because I'm not allowed to. But it is coming out in November, Harper Collins. But yeah, man. So my dad was an actor. He stayed in LA most of time. He went back and forth and drove the four hours to Pasarobles. I had no real... I think I went on his sets. I think I went on Marcus Wellby once, and I think I went on Amatev Bill Whore once. I was up on the catwalk at 11 years old, where he walked in, and I didn't know. I didn't know the process. We never talked about it.

Tracey, the catwalk is the permanent walkways way up at the top of the sound stage, usually like 30 feet up above the ground.

Way up at the top. I'm looking down and I'm watching my dad. You action, which I don't even know what that is. And he comes in through the door with an ax and goes to another door where somebody's doing off camera to help him out. But I don't know that. No, no. And he's axing the door. And it reminded me of this story that I heard once of Laura Durn saying the first time she ever saw her dad on film was his head rolling down a flight of stairs. Oh, my God. But I remember There was never anything. I don't have that story of like, oh, my God, when I was four, I was doing little plays I made up on my head in front of my family, and I just knew at five. You wanted to be a storyteller? Yeah, it was none of that. I had no interest in the acting thing. Then ultimately, just to jump forward, I was flunking out of school once we moved to Santa Barbara, and I did an improv class, and I didn't even know what it was. It was like, you can do underwater basket weaving or improv And I was like, I guess I'll do the improv.

But really had a bad taste about the acting thing because my dad made money and then spent that money, and then we had no money, and then we had money, and then we had no money. And then we had money. And then we had no money. And I said, why the fuck would anybody want to do that? So ultimately, I took that class, and I remember I was the first person asked to get up. And she said, so what this is, is you create a character, and any character you want, any character that comes to mind. And from the house, the students were going to ask you questions, and you answer as that character. And I had created some middle-aged New Yorker, and I don't even know how I knew that at that point, like an overweight, middle-aged, balding New Yorker. How old were you? I think I was at that point, maybe 15, 14, 15. And then when I was answered, then there was laughter, right? And that was it. You love that. Yeah. So it had nothing to do with what I was surrounded by, if anything. I was never going to be an actor.

It was that drug-induced, the drug of the laughter.

Yeah, for sure.

That or the attention or you can see that you're good at something. I wonder... Because I think for any kid...

The effect on people.

Yeah, but any kid right at that age, if you put something in front of them that they don't suck at and they get some charming social status. I'm seeing it with my kids now, Willy. I'm sure you are, too. It's like right about this Stage, then we were between 12 and 17, you're trying, Where do I fit in? What's my lane? What's my group? What am I good at? What should I never do again? For me, it was the same thing, Josh. It was this acting like, That's where I got my attention. That's where guys thought I was cool and girls wanted to hang out with me. It could have been anything else.

I did this play. I did Twelfth Night, Shakespeare's Twelfth Night in high school. I didn't understand a word I was saying. Until there was an audience, there's one line that says, I'll make one, two, and that's the end of the scene. It got a massive laugh. 16, 17 years old, no idea why anybody laughed. I was like, Oh, that's who that character is, and that's why people are laughing. Then it clicked. Yeah, it's interesting, based on what you just said. It's like, until you get that drug, you just don't know what it is.

I was just thinking about like, how strange you do something and then people give you a lot of positive feedback, and why would you want to do that?

You got to be careful what you put in front of your kid at that age because that's what they're going to end up doing.

But, Josh, when you did... Ammonville Horror was damaging to me. I saw that as a kid, and I was like... It was one of the scariest things I've ever seen. You growing up on that set, could you then go back and watch the movie, having experienced seeing filming it and get immersed into it? Or did you see how the sausage was made?

But not having grown up on the set, only having seen that scene.

But even that?

No, I had no interest, I'm telling you, I had no interest in it. It wasn't until very irresponsibly, my dad took me to the theater, the Mission Theater, to see Apocalypse Now. Sure.

Yeah.

Which, I mean, that was one of those... That's One of those immersive things where you're like, what the fuck are they doing?

How old were you when you saw that?

I was 11.

That's enough to absorb it.

I saw ET. I was two and a half.

Sorry. You were Hollywood two and a half. Seeing that 11, I don't think I saw it.

Well, what about Jaws? I mean, Jaws was out in what, 7:05? I saw Jaws in the theater. I was 6. I was 6 at 75.

That's why- Or Rocky. Do you remember seeing Rocky?

Yes. The fact that he doesn't win the fight But it's a great big happy ending. I was just like, How do you pull that magic trick off? Yeah, exactly.

We'll be right back. Smartlust gets support from ZipRecruiter. Tis the month of It's Patty's Day. Here's a random related fact. Did you know that the odds of finding a lucky four-leaf clover are 1 in 10,000? I'd say that's pretty difficult. Fortunately, if you're a business owner or hiring manager, you don't need luck to find top talent for your team. You need ZipRecruiter Ziprecruiter. Right now, you can try it for free at ziprecruiter. Com/smartlist. Ziprecruiter's powerful matching technology shows you qualified matches right after you post your job. Once you review your list of qualified candidates, you can easily invite them to apply. On Weren't you just a wee bit curious to see how ZipRecruiter can help you? Well, today's your lucky day because you can try ZipRecruiter for free. Just go to ziprecruiter. Com/smartlist. In fact, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Once again, just go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free. That's ziprecruiter. Com/smartlist. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. This episode of Smartlist is brought to you in part by SkinnyPop Popcorn. Looking For some excitement, check out SkinnyPop's new Chetter Jalapeño popcorn.

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All right, back to the show.

Josh, then what happens? You were like, first of all, I It's two questions. When you were up there, you surfed a lot. That played a big part in your life, right? You were a big time surfer. That took a lot of your time. You had a whole gang of pals who you surfed with. Then you And then you get Goonies. And what's that like? How did that come about? Because that was your first thing, really, right?

Everything is super morbid. Every story, I thank God for you guys being able to in chat. Welcome to the party.

By the way, morbid podcasts are the best. They do the best on the charts. We got Josh Brolin.

What the fuck? Yeah. So I grew up with these guys that They called themselves, we called ourselves, I'll include myself in that, the Cito Rats. And most of those guys, 37 out of probably 50 of us are dead now. And that was the beginning of the punk rock era. That was an amazing time. It was an electric time. It was a fun time. But I got kicked out of my house at 16, and I lived on my dad's couch.

Wait, what was the offense?

The offense is my mouth. I I just got myself in a lot of trouble.

Cost me a few schools. Words.

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, my mom said, It's time for you to leave. And I left. And I stayed with my dad, who was living with his girlfriend in this apartment. And this was an attempt to get my shit together. So I made up a resume. I started doing martial arts, which one does when you try to get your shit together. Sure. And I was fairly decent at that. And I started competing doing that. And at the same time, I made up. My dad said, Why don't you try and work a little bit? Why don't you do theater? Why don't you do that? I was like, oh, yeah, I could do that. And I made up a resume. It was 100 % made up. And I went from agent to agent, trying to get an agent. And saying that I had done streetcar at the Librero International Theater. There is no Librero International Theater. Sure. And at the same time, I did see Streetcar, and I saw East of Eden, and those The two movies had a major impact. Anyway, somebody, Hillary Shore, took me on, even though she knew the whole resume was bullshit. And she took me on.

I probably had... Back then, when you would do auditions, you would go to three or four auditions in a day Day. I think I did around 350 auditions before I met Dick Donner and Steven Spielberg. I didn't really know who they were, but that was a six-audition process before they said he was the guy.

Really? With nothing but a fucking Thomas guide and a lot of hope, right?

Bunch of head shots, yeah.

It's an accident. I wasn't good. I can't say I was good. The same goes to today. If you do Dune with a certain director, it's going to be a certain thing, somebody who understands what take to use whatever. Then if you do Dune with Denis Vilnov, the foundation, the worst it's going to be is still really good.

Well, so actually, talk about that. Now we're going into Dune, Sean. But I do want to say as an In contrary to that, that's a really interesting point, Josh, that you can go and do something. Part of the reason that people like you choose directors and choose projects are because you say, I want to be with that person because I believe that I'm in good hands. I believe that, A, that the script's good. I believe that their vision of executing is good, and that the way that they're from start to finish, from casting to shooting to editing to all of that stuff, that they're going to do something that I believe that I trust in, right? Because you're putting your trust in that process.

Yeah, but I also think, just to preface it, and then more up your alley, Sean, is that theater, I met a guy named Anthony Zerby, and Anthony Zerby was one of the great Shakespeare actors, maybe the lesser known. And he had a poetry thing that he did, which I can't think of anything more... I don't know if you remember Cafe Lalo back in the day on Fairfax. Steve Baldwin would go and read his poetry, and it was all just super dumb. I met a guy around that time named Anthony Zerby, and Anthony Zerby and Rosco Lee-Brown, the great Rosco Lee-Brown, would do an hour and a half of poetry. I saw it, and it fucking blew my mind, the fact that they had such a command over the language, and they understood pause, they understood cadence, they understood wait, and all that stuff. I got together with Anthony, and I started doing theater in Rochester, New New York, and I did five seasons of theater in Rochester, New York. So when you get that vibe, what you were talking about back from the audience, and when a play is not very good, and yet chemistry is really good with another actor, and then that can send the play in a different place, and you see people crying, and you see people laughing.

Again, that's the addiction. You're like, Oh, there's a response here, and there's... I can move you.

Do you have a favorite of those plays back when you did?

I did a play that never went anywhere called Pits & Joe, and it was a guy with traumatic brainstem injury that had gotten into a motorcycle accident. It was based in truth. And this woman wrote it about her and her brother. And I did one of those things back when you wanted to be Daniel Day-Lewis or whoever. And I went into the care center that Joe was at, and I checked in. I met with the head of the care I met with the five heads, the psychology head and all that. I said, I really want to live in here as one of these people for a couple of weeks. Can you not tell anybody else that I'm actually not wanted? I'm going to see if I can pull it off. I remember that after the second day, there was somebody, I was smoking or something or trying to smoke or put a cigarette in my mouth. And a nurse came up to me and she said, Josh, you can't. You're not allowed. And she was screaming in my ear and I wanted to say, Shut What the fuck up. She's like, I'm acting. She bought a ticket to the opening night.

The head of the psychology, he hated me, and he He waited what I was doing, and I was waiting by myself to have my two cigarettes of the day, and he walked by me, and it was just he and I. He whisper, or he snarky, said as he was walking by, he said, Joe would never do that. I remember I felt a rage, and it was the rage that I felt, and then the connection between if Joe feels a rage, he would never be able to get up, so therefore I can't get up. That was what I needed to go play that.

I love that. Interesting.

I love that.

It was cool. Have you stayed that a researching actor, or have you found that what you've got, what you've absorbed in your life, gives you enough of a toolbox to apply to any character that you're attracted to nowadays?

I think both. I think what I'm going through right now, I've been very lucky to be offered a lot of really nice things recently. I think the hunger right now is to go back to 2008 or go back to that theater experience because I miss having to do or feeling like I have to do the research.

Well, I'll tell you something about the research. It reminded me, Josh, of a story you told me years ago when you did No Country for Old Man, which is just such a spectacular movie. One of my favorites. Oh, my God. So good. You're so good in it. I remember we were talking, maybe it was when we were doing Jonah Hex, But you were saying there's that scene early on where you're going to... And the motorcycle accident reminded me of this, where you got to shoot the guy and you take your boot off to level the gun. Am I remembering that correctly?

Yeah, because I had gotten to it. Yeah, I got into a motorcycle accident.

And you didn't tell them. Tell these guys what happened.

No. Two days after I got... So I was doing this small movie with Brittany Murphy, and I was having to go from... I had gotten No Country, and there was no way I was going to get No Country. I even read for No Country, and their only response, because I was doing a movie at the time, we sent in the video, and their only response was, Who lit it? So they didn't even comment on my actual. I just thought it was really well lit. And then I got in there as the last reading, and I got that part. They asked me that afternoon, Would you be interested in playing this for it? I was like, Well, hold on. Let me think about it. And then I got into a motorcycle accident two days later, going from one wardrobe fitting to the other, and I snapped my collarbone in half. I called them and I had prepped the doctor. I said, Look, Ethan wants to talk to the doctor to find out how bad it really is. I told the doctor, you need to tell them it's a hairline fracture. I tried to become as intimidating as I could possibly become.

I was like, you're not going to be a doctor anymore if you don't say these words in this way. And it turned out that the only reason I was able to do the role was because Llewellyn gets shot in the right shoulder. Had it been the left shoulder, I couldn't have done it. In the beginning of the movie, he's supposed to be standing up and shooting at the analyst loap, and I couldn't do it. I couldn't lift up because literally, it had only been two weeks since I snapped my collarbone and I was letting it heal naturally. So I called somebody, and there was somebody who knew a sniper in Vietnam, and how could I hold the gun?

I love that you called somebody who knew a sniper.

Sure. Yeah, I tend to know those people. So that's why I took my boot up.

The Coen brothers seem to like that as a character choice that you would use the boot, or was the boot off camera?

No, you see No, the boots on camera, and they liked that just because it was viable.

He takes his fucking boot off, and then he balances the gun on his fucking boot because he literally can't hold the gun.

While we're there, before we get to Sean's Dune fiesta. Anything about... The Coen brothers are just like every other person in this industry. They are my North Star, and they can do no wrong. To work with them, I'm just so like, I'll take anything you can give me about what that experience is like.

It's funny because I've tried to make it in the past, and you're on talk shows, and you're like, Tell me about the Coen. It's like, Tell me a funny story. And they're so fucking normal. The greatest thing that I've done, three movies in a short with the Coens. And the greatest thing I ever got from them was after every scene I've ever done, especially in the beginning, with the exception of one story that I'll tell you, I've never, ever gotten a great scene. I've never gotten a thumbs up. Great job. Really?

Just the moving on is the-It's literally moving on and looking up and seeing their backs walking away to the next set.

No way. Wow. At best, it's like, Hey, what do you think? Maybe later on, I'd go, What do you think of that scene? And they go, Yeah. Basically, we got what we need, and you your job correctly, which is why we hired you.

That was my dad's reaction growing up.

That was your dad? There's a trauma in that.

He didn't have it. How would you know what his reaction was?

Unless you could read his mind through the rear view mirror.

You could read people's minds from 50 miles away?

Woody Harrelson was the only guy who couldn't remember his lines during No Country, and we had that scene in the hospital together, and he talks the majority of the time. He couldn't get through his fucking lines. Then when finally he did one take where he stumbled through his lines, and then I saw the Coens come from behind set, and they looked at him and they go, Wow, that was amazing. I was like, You got to be fucking kidding me. This dude's literally stuttering through his shit.

You're holding his cue cards, right? I get nothing.

That's terrible.

They were just happy they got a take, let's be honest. From a wood.

Wait, so Dune. Here we go.

Here we go.

Okay, so wait. A ride.

Is the sand real? Let's just start.

Okay, I'm so bored. Can I talk about Dune?

Can you get sand in your eyes? Can I talk about Dune?

No, by the way. Is it real? Is it a real place?

Is it a real place? Yes.

No, it's no Country for Old Men is one of my favorite movies, too. But Dune, I can't get... First of all, Arrival is one of my favorite movies as well.

Cool.

Me too.

So clever and well made, and the script is amazing.

Tell him why Tell Tracy why that's connected, Sean.

Oh, because he directed the same director, Director of Arrival as Danny Villeneuve. Danny Villeneuve, right. Yeah.

Dune-who also directed Sicario, by the way.

Yeah, and you were also written that.

Maybe a top three. I want After Dune, I want to get him. Well, after Dune, I want to get into Sicario because I love Sicario.

Okay, so wait. I want to know, just like Jason said, what is the Ethan's, what's it like on that set? I mean, are they sets? Are you really in the desert? How much of it is real? How much of it isn't?

Most of it is practical. Most of it is-Let's just pause the interview right here.

Because it looks like it's really in the desert.

It does, doesn't it? Jason, please go off.

What part gave you that impression? Was it the desert?

Would they be spending less money if they just green screen the whole goddamn thing, or would that maybe be a little bit more?

It's actually really sweet because he's like full fan boy right now.

I'm a massive, massive fan.

Ask him to stand up. You can see his pants are off. You're so good at this. Then have him pan his camera right and you'll see Scotty just in full pull mode. Go ahead. Next question, Sean. Gas. Go ahead and finish Scotty off with the next one.

Wait, so, by the way, isn't it wild that you guys had to hold the release because of the strike?

Speaking of holding the release.

So now it's coming in March. Is that what it is?

Yeah. Was that why? Yeah. Then we went back for reshoots in the first one during the pandemic, which we hadn't. We We did it before the pandemic.

What is it? Tell me what it's like working with him. Is it the opposite of the Ethan's? Of the Cohen's? I mean?

Well, he's also Canadian. Is he not, Denny?

He's French-Canadian. Right.

So he's incredibly kind and Probably effusive with his compliments. Thank you. He's coming up, giving you a little high five at the end of a good take.

He is, actually. A little... Yeah, but what I was going to say about the Cohen's thing is that taught me a great thing, and I don't really look for that anymore.

Yeah, but I mean, what What he's accomplished in you two in Dune is it's hard to get the tone and the feel and the actors and the script and the sets and just everything works perfectly. It creates a world that we haven't seen.

It's very collaborative. If I can go back to Sicario for a second. I had turned down because he wasn't really an established director at that point. He had done Asandee. He had done one American film with Hugh Jackman. What was that film called?

Not Passengers, not Visitors.

You know I'm talking about? Yeah.

About the Kidnapping.

Jake Jelen Hall, which was actually really good. But I said, I don't know why, because I think it was a really small part.

Anyway, to get through this-Was Bob Elswood on board yet? I mean, wasn't he a DP?

You mean Deacons? Oh, was it Deacons that did it? It was Deacons. I had worked with Deacons a couple of times, and it was also Benicio, and it was Emily Blunt. Anyway, I said no. I said no twice, and I don't know why. And he called me and said what every director says and lies about, which is we're going to expand this role. What it is right now is not really what it's going to be. And you're like, well, you're full of shit because I've heard that from everybody. But the truth is, and whether it was just happened this way because of fate or whatever, it was so expanded and it was so once we got on set, it was like such a vibe that all came from him, which was this isn't working, so let's work on this, or I'm going to on your trailer door. Benicio doesn't want to talk anymore. He thinks you should talk because you like to talk. I'm like, I'm a different fucking character, but we need this exposition. How can we make it behavioral? So on and so forth. It became a very, very collaborative process. That's what I get Dune.

Denia is my good friend now, but he's a guy who I would work on anything with because that collaborative effort to me is the top.

But Sean points out, Sicario is about a world that that exists. It's a reflection of this real world. Maybe height, maybe not. I don't really know. But of this thing. Things like Dune, as Sean pointed out, it's world building. It's creating a world. It's creating a whole thing.

That's so hard to get right.

Yeah, no kidding.

Yeah, but there was a guy, Zeev Boreh, who I know from New York, and he's my good buddy, and he read through that whole series three times when he was a kid. So he knows it as well as anybody, as well as Denny does. And when he saw the movie, I I snuck him in in Santa Fe when I saw the first one. And there was a pause after the movie ended. And this guy's a 48-year-old guy, and he stood up and he started screaming, Yes, that's it.

Yes. Fuck, yes.

That's great. What do they call him? His nickname, Zeev the Virgin, right? I mean, he went through all three. Zeev the Verge.

Wait, now that you're cool, now that you've had all this success and you've been working for so many years, and you told us the story about how You know your dad had money then didn't have money, had money then didn't have money. And so it left you in a weird place, probably growing up. How are you with money now and handling it? Are you more responsible and you would try to teach your kids about the responsibility of money?

Yeah, it's an ongoing subject about where we live and what that promotes and given that I grew up on a ranch, given that we have a ranch that's three miles away from the ranch I grew up on, that I take my kids there a lot. I take my kids right now. They haven't been to the set very much, but I take them wherever we shoot. I have a 30-year-old, a 35-year-old, a three-year-old, and a five-year-old.

That's crazy. Wow. Now, what grandfather skills does he have? What grandma skills does Babs have? What are these family get-togethers like?

There's a real, for lack of a better word, hard on for my kids, my young kids, with said grandparents.

Really quick, just for my sister, and I'm just saying this for my sister, Josh.

No, you're not.

Your dad is James Braun, who's married to Barbara Streisand.

Correct.

Really? Yeah. This also made news. Yeah. It's amazing.

That's it. Fuck, go, dad.

It's for my sister, and for my sister, Tracy.

But they're keyed in on these two. Was it different than the first two kids? They got another crack at it.

I think so. I think in my first two kids, definitely, they laugh at it now where they were like, We're still here, by the way. But the young kids are very cute, and I think that they're at an age now where things have slowed down enough where you start to appreciate those familially, et cetera, et cetera. That's great.

What would you say is the biggest difference between your fathering on the first two versus the second two? What have you-Achocol. Yeah. You've got a little lighter blend on your hydration this round?

I mean, that's just the fucking truth, man. I mean, I was in and out and that thing. But I think it's okay to say this, even though it's an anonymous program. My son's sober, my daughter's married to a sober dude. That's great. My wife's sober.

I love that.

I love it. Right. They learned a lot from your mistakes or your- Hopefully.

Yeah, that's awesome. In all honesty. You know what I mean? I think we were all pretty open. I tried not to let the thing cross over, and it did cross over a few times, and we talk about it, but it's a very open dialog with us.

When you mentioned about you getting kicked out at 16 years old because of your mouth and stuff, do you recognize the signs in any of your kids that they might repeat the same behavior that you did when you- No, because I think mine was so extreme that it was definitely a morning light, as opposed to, let me try and emulate that to see if I can pull that off. Right.

We'll be right back.

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Everybody, including myself, It's always like, God, there's not enough hours in the day. I have so much to do. I can't find even five minutes. But I think if we're being honest with ourselves, we can probably find an hour, right? If you're really willing to do that, you can probably find an for yourself. The question is for everyone, time for what? If time was unlimited, how would you use it? How would you decide what's important enough to make time for? Therapy can help you find what matters to you so you can do more of it. If you, when talking to a therapist, you discover, you know what? I wish I was riding bikes more, actually out on the street. That's one of my things. I'm like, If I had a bike, I would actually ride it. Anyway, I'm rambling. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Learn to make time for what makes you happy with Betterhelp.

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And in our podcast, Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the the biggest characters in history. This season, we delve into the life of Mikhael Gorbachev. This season has everything. It's got political ideology, it's got nuclear Armageddon, it's got love story, it's got betrayal, it's got economic collapse.

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Now, back to the show.

You know what? You know what's funny, Josh, is the The other day, I was reading this story in the Wall Street Journal. These guys don't know what that is, but there was a story about weed. There was a story about weed, and it was saying how they've seen an uptick in kids having psychotic breaks as a result of cannabis as compared to 10, 20 years ago. So I send it to my ex. I text it to Amy immediately, and she goes, Why are you sending me this? Our older sons are 13 and 15. I go, Because wheat is very readily available, and there are things around and blah, blah, blah, and I'm very nervous about it. I just have this, you know what I mean?

Because it wasn't like- But I understand. It was like, remember back in the '70s? I remember I was a friend of my dad's in Pasrobel's, and Pastor Robles, and I I was on the floor or something, and I looked under his bed, and I found a drawer pot, and I rolled it up in some writing paper and tried to smoke it when I got home when I was eight or nine. But even if I was able to smoke it, the high would have been... You wouldn't have been that That hot.

You smoke a full joint nowadays, you got to call your mom.

One hit nowadays.

Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Before I got sober, I remember I loved the idea of dispensaries, and I loved the idea behind the science in it Poland. I was like, What does this do? Where is this? How do you make this?

I made it for the science, too.

Yeah, I know. I get it. But there was a guy, he was from Poland, and we would go through this whole thing, and I would pretend like I didn't smoke because I didn't really love smoking very much. Then I would give it to my friends. But then one night, I was home alone, and I was supposed to read this essay that my daughter had done. I went outside, and I was like, Well, maybe I'll try it. I'll just try a little bit. I took a little hit, and I got too much smoke, and then I coughed it out. By the time I had exhaled, I was convinced that there were crosshairs from across the building on my head, and I was slowly lowering behind my-Army, crawl back into the Yeah. Then I tried to read the essay, and I read the same first line about 125 times. That was one hit, man. I get it.

He needed to get into the edibles.

It's heavy duty, Sean. Whatever. Sean, I love it when Sean gets- He didn't get into the edibles. Jason, his book is coming out, and it's about edibles, but he hasn't read the first. He's written the first line 120 times. Sean, when Sean gets on weed, it is my When you take gets on weed, who's old? But when Sean smokes weed or takes an edible is the funniest. It makes me laugh, Sean.

Well, I get like tunnel vision.

As he's getting to the hospital.

I get spurts of a little energy. But wait, when I was a kid, I was so afraid of doing anything wrong. I remember I was scared about having a library book out too long, and I thought I was going to get in massive trouble. Where does that come from where you're like, Yeah, I'll try this. I'll do this. I'll get in this trouble. I'll beat the shit out of this kid. I'll smoke this stuff.

I never beat the shit out of a kid. I was never that guy. Bullies, maybe, but I was never... Even though we all fought a lot. But that was the culture. That was the culture that I grew up in in punk rock and all that stuff. Back when parents were doing blow instead of parenting.

Imagine what a bummer it would be to get into a fight with Brolin. It would fucking suck.

At any age. At any age. I bet at eight, he could really square you up. I went over there.

I went over to Brolin. Remember, I came over to try your cold punch five years ago, We get in the fucking cold punch, and he's a couple of years older than me. I was like, Look how fucking stacked this motherfucker is.

How old are you, Josh?

I can see here, he's just cut to ribbons. Are you in better shape now than you've ever been in your life?

I bet you are. No, I was in better shape during Dune than I've been in in a very, very long time. I think when I did-Yeah, you looked good in Dune. When I did Deadpool 2, I think that's the best shape I've ever been in. You look great in Deadpool 2.

Sean, cool it.

I'm just saying he's good looking.

But you still do the martial arts, and have you ever, and/or would you? Can I promote you and Downey fighting each other?

I would do that. I was just with Downey, and we were talking about you two days ago.

I'm going to love to set that up. Wait, can I get in on that, Arnett?

Yeah, I'm getting it. Ready down Downey Brolin fight.

Well, let's do it in... Do we think Vegas, Atlantic City? Or what about Laughland? Laughland would be kitschy, right?

Remember that? Wasn't there an animated thing, like celebrity fights or something like that? Was it really? It was like a claymation thing. Yeah, look it up afterwards. It was super fun. I'd like to make that a reality.

Oh, that's right. There was a claymation show.

I'm bored with the acting. I want to fuck celebrities out.

There's our clip.

I am backing you, Brolin. You're my fucking dog in this.

Wait, Josh, do you know Brandon Shanahan? He's a friend of Will's.

He's a hockey player. Retired hockey player, President of the Toronto Maple Heels, one of the all-time great guys.

Will and Brandon and I were out to dinner. This is a few weeks ago. I said Brandon Shanahan, who's been in a thousand fights on the ice rink.

He holds the record for the most what they call Gordie Howe hat tricks, which is goal assistant fight in a game. I told him, I always had this a little tiny, tiny, tiny bit of a fantasy of getting in a fight because I've never been in a fist fight.

Mostly on the receiving end, just getting beat to shit.

Yeah, literally. Hockey fights for you, just grab somebody.

What if you pull my hair right before you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, It's not a fetish, but go ahead.

No, just because I don't know. Part of me just wants to know what that feels like.And so, Brandon.I'll make that happen.Yeah.So, Brandon takes me out.John, I'm going to fuck you up. And grabs me. He's teaching me how to fight, and I can't stop smiling because I think it's so funny. He goes, First of all, wipe that fucking smile off your face. You're going to get into a fight.

How'd you feel? How did you feel when he said that? You got scared.

It made me laugh harder.

Yeah, he's like, Stop looking like you're going to enjoy this, God damn it.

He grabs me in some crazy hold in two seconds flat. I can't move my entire body. He's like, You would be dead. So you'd just beat the shit out of your face.

He had his arm wrapped around. He's like, And then I would just start filling you in like this. And he just starts going this. Sean's laughing, and he did say, By the way, it's at the back entrance, that little back side door behind the Polo Lounge. There's nothing more elitist than that scenario.

What about MMA stuff? Are you training with that, too? Is that your skill set or is it more martial arts?

I think it was. Martial arts, no longer. Even though the Gracy's become good friends and through Laird Hamilton and all that. I have massive respect for them. But no, I think the getting in shape. Mma, Dana White is a really close friend of mine. I love MMA. I've always loved boxing. I didn't think MMA would last or UFC would last, and it has. It It's incredible. I get very into it. I have a lot of guys come over to my house. We just built this extra MMA barn. What time? I can watch MMA on what?

What time?

What time? What time? I'll invite you.

You know what's funny, Josh, is All this stuff, and you do a lot of this stuff, and you're very in shape or whatever. But over the last couple of years, I've noticed, and I think you mentioned going to listen to poetry years ago. But anybody who follows you on Instagram or anybody who gets text from you talking about your day or the things that you're grateful for, i. E. Gratitude list, knows that you've veered into that. As much of a guy, you like to mix it up. You've also become quite, and maybe this is just a result of of older age and having younger kids again, you've become quite ponderous. You're really appreciating the world around you in a way that's pretty astound. I I'm going to make out with you now, too.

He's got that soft, shoey center.

It's true, man. Every day you talk about, and you talk about things you're really open about appreciating your wife, loving your wife, loving your kids. You're really open about it. I think there's something super, super You're super nice and vulnerable and beautiful about that. Thanks.

I appreciate that very much. I don't think it's a new thing, but I think it's ramped up recently because I love the idea of contrast in the fact that That I ride a vintage motorcycle or with a group of dudes or the fact that I'm perceived as this scrappy, gnarly, whatever, ultra man, the last man in Hollywood.

But then what is the count?

It should be noted that Josh is smiling when he says that.

I am smiling. I love the idea of contrasting that because there is an incredible sensitivity, and I do love my kids. I will be I had my first kid when I was 20, and my youngest, I'll be 70 when she graduates high school. So cool. I love it, man. I love it in the writing.

What would be the contrasting thing that would surprise most people? What is the softest thing that you do on a seven regular basis?

Okay, here's a story. Here's a story, and I don't know if this is the best story to tell, but the story, when we went to Atlanta, and during the pandemic, we moved to Atlanta, where my wife is from. I Now, nothing against Atlanta, but when I got to Atlanta, I realized I was in Atlanta. I didn't realize Atlanta was in Atlanta, so I couldn't stay. But I was sitting there and it's such a nice house, and I'm looking out the window, and I see this barreled chested, tattooed, huge, goateed guy in the middle of my yard, and he's looking up at a tree, and I go, Who the fuck is that? And I open the door and I go, Hey, man. And he looks at me and he goes, Hey. And I go, Yeah, what the fuck are you doing in my yard? And he looks at me and there's a long pause and he goes, I'm your gardener. And I go, Oh, fuck. I'm so sorry. And I went down there and I started talking to him. And within 15 minutes, and I'm not kidding, I'm not exaggerating, within 15 minutes, here and I are in a total embrace, tears falling down our cheeks.

And it turns out that he's 24 years sober. He runs the biggest sober biker club that's an international biker club in the world.

That's amazing.

He's one of my best friends now.

I love that.

I love the idea of this cosmetic thing that you immediately judge, and then underneath it is whatever.

I love that. Well, the biggest compliment I can give you is I've never met you before. This is the first time, and I feel completely at ease with you. I feel like I've known you forever. You seem so open and just normal down to earth and honest.

Please put me in a jokehold.

I'm sorry, I didn't- Can you please put me in a jokehold?

Dude, maybe the best time joke of all time. I want a spoon with you.

You seem like the guy that'd be really cool with a spoon.

Are you in New York, by the way? Sean, are you in New York?

I'm in Los Angeles.

You're in Los Angeles. My wife saw your play. I did not, admittedly, but my wife saw your play, which I heard was-Please call her Thank you.you were truly a revelation. That's very nice.

Honestly, it was so... No, I know, Sean. Fuck off. It was so good. It deserves to get mentioned whenever we talk about it. It was so good.

That's what I heard. Speaking of, Josh, you got any horrible, tragic theater stories? Something that just went horribly wrong?

No, man. But just theater is such a... It's a funny thing. My experience of theater is like, You fucking people in Hollywood. You're You're such phonies. You're such fakes. You don't understand the real thing. Then that person, three days later, you'll see them in an El Poya Loco commercial.

Right, exactly. I'm coming out in March for pilot season. You got an extra bag?

Yeah, literally. I find it the most hypocritical society I've ever... You know what I mean? I love it. I just wrote a play, and we're trying to get that play done in Oh-Hi, and it's really good. But I'm reminded again and how much I hate the theater community. Just kidding. I'm totally kidding.

He's totally kidding.

One of my favorite questions, and we'll let you go, is with all of the incredible set experience that you have and all the incredible directors you've worked with, have you ever been tempted to take all of that which you've cherry-picked from them and sit in the chair yourself and direct something?

It's funny you would bring this up, and I'm curious why you would bring it up, because I was going to bring it up, regardless of whether you brought it up or not. But I reached out to you when I directed an episode of Outer Range, which is something that I did with Amazon. A very strange, Western, contemporary Western. It's something that I've always wanted to do. I've directed theater. I've never directed. I directed a short, but I've never directed something that was substantial and with money. I reached out to you and I said-Because you were just thinking about it at the time, weren't you? I was thinking about it at the time, and I reached out to you and I said, Do you have any advice for me? Which I thought was really interesting. Why would I reach out to you? So obviously, my respect for you.

Who do you think you've called?

No, but I love that I reached out to you, and you said a great thing. You were like, Don't focus on the day players. You said, Don't forget about the day players. That was one bit of advice that you gave me. But you were so sweet and so you-Tracey, the day players are the actors that are doing the parts that are not the starring roles. Maybe one line, three lines.

Sometimes they're cast right from the local city that you're shooting in. There's an instinct sometimes for them to potentially overplay their scene because they're only in a couple of scenes. Sometimes as a director- Which can take you right out of a scene.

Right.

Yeah. And so as a director- Which was your point, I think. Right. So how did that go?

Really, really well. I have to say that directing, and I know a lot of probably actors feel like this, it wasn't an opportunity to finally do the thing that I wanted to do that no director wouldn't let me do. But it was more that the myriad interests that I've had in my lifetime that I never really understood all made sense suddenly. It was like, I can utilize everything I've ever been interested in and everything that I've wanted to randomly learn and didn't know why now makes perfect sense. When you're available to somebody in the way that they need you to be available, which changes from actor to actor and staff members, whatever, DP or whatever, and say, How can I be most helpful as opposed to, How can I make my mark and use my power because now I finally have it.

Exactly.

Are you thinking about doing it again, perhaps?

I think out of that has come a real interest in finding foreign directors right now and finding projects like that and really I'm focusing on another echelon of great directors, and yes, I would like to think that I would further that. I think it would be dumb not to. I think the only reason why it wouldn't happen is out of fear. At 55, I'm done with the idea of fear.

But I was going to say, the thing that Jason says to a lot of people, and he talks about experience on set, and you've been doing it a long time, you do have so much experience, and you do have such a point of view, and that's important as a director. Obviously, as we all know. I'm surprised that it's not something that you're actively doing more because you do have such a strong point of view.

And know-how, an incredible experience and comfort on a set in order to lead.

But I think it's also the fact, and I think this has to do with raising kids, is you're not afraid to be wrong because you understand that wrong doesn't really pertain. You just have to make a decision, and you have to allow other people to be able to lean on you and stand behind your decisions and know that it's not going to be perfect and know that you're going to have to compensate and know that you may have to fix some things in editing and all that stuff. I just think it's like photography. It's one of those things that you know you'll never master. I love the idea of having to pursue something that you'll never master.

Yeah, I love that. That's cool.

Dude, we can fucking talk to you forever. Honestly. I love you guys.

I love this time.

I love you, dude. Yeah.

Thank you so good. I'm saying yes and doing this with us.

Yeah, thank you. It's been a long time coming.

Thank you for having me.

I'm a massive fan.Thanks, Sean.

You're one of the all-timers, JB. Fucking love you. Miss you, dude.

Miss you guys, too. Thank you very much for this time, honestly. Thank you, pal. It was nutritious.

Have a great rest of the day.Thanks, brother.We'll talk to you soon.Thank.

You.see you, Josh.Bye.Bye.

Bye, bye. That's a JB.

That's a real JB. That's a capital J, capital D.

If somebody says, Hey, show me the best JB you got, I'm wheeling him out.

Sure. Then they'll say, Well, second, third, fourth. What else?

We're going to go lowercase. We're going to go lowercase, like more of a beta JB. Hey, guys. There you are.

What if somebody said, Show me a great BJ?

You'd say how much time you got.

I'd say, Sean, let me look at your browser history.

I really like that Josh Brolin. He's a sweet guy. He's a normal guy. God, I could talk to him forever.

Sean, I'm surprised you've never met him before.

I never met him before. I'm a huge fan.

That's a good dude. Wouldn't you love to be stuck on set with him for a few months? Oh, God.

Yeah, super fun.

Yeah, I had the pleasure back in the day-to-day when it was a different time, but it was still super fun hanging with him.

Yeah, he's one of those guys that's just electric.

He is electric. He's really funny, and he's really smart, and he's interesting, and all that stuff. He's well-read. He's just like one of those. But, Bayman, you You've known him, right? On and off for years?

Yeah, a little bit. We shared an agent for a little while. Oh, right. Yeah, but I think you know him a lot better. I wish I knew him a lot better. I could hang with him.

We have a lot of friends in common If you know what I mean.

He's just a fucking-Is he back here in LA now full-time?

Yeah. He was here, and then they moved to... Like he said, they moved to Atlanta for a bit, and then they came back.

By the way, everybody in Atlanta, I love Atlanta, right? Me, too. It'll surprise you every time. He does, too.

He was playing it up. He does, too. His wife is from Atlanta, her whole family. His sister-in-law and brother-in-law, who's a good friend of mine, Jackson, who we didn't talk about, who's a really good bud of mine who lives in Atlanta. Atlanta is a great, great town. You and I both had awesome experiences in that town.

I shot a movie there. It was super hot, but it was wonderful.

The people are awesome. It's a great town, et cetera. But that old... Yeah, that J. B.

I like what he said, too, when he was He's talking about how he likes to… What does he say?

Contrast?

Yeah, contrast. Contrast. Almost like bifurcate, right? What he's-How did you-Why didn't you not use the buy on bifurcate?

You just had there.

You had it. How he likes to… Go back.

We're still rolling. Can we go back? We're still rolling? I hate that.

Just let somebody reset. You like the way he likes to what? Bye. For K. Bye.

Oh, Sean, great one. You stupid ass.

Get over here.

I can't believe you blew it. Smart.

Smart. Smart.

Smart. By Bennett Barbeco, Michael Grant-Terry, and Rob Armjardf. Smart Loss.

Hi, guys.

Hi, guys. Hi.

Oh, Darcy's here. Hi. Guys, we have a friend with us today.

We have a friend. Yes. Oh, my gosh. It's Darcy Cardin. Hi.

Darcy. Hello, brothers.

Hello, sister.

Hi. How are you, Darcy Cardin?

Good to see you guys. Thanks for having me.

Darcy, who everybody knows from a million things It's like the good place. You were just on Broadway. We were just on Broadway at the same time.

With you, my Broadway brother. At the exact same time.

Darcy, I apologize. No, don't apologize. On Broadway.

Don't you dare apologize. I'm so sorry. No, don't apologize. I'm telling you not to. It was a limited run. It was a short one. It was called the Thanksgiving Play. The Thanksgiving Play.

I heard you were fantastic.

I'm just having visions of you having to go through a full Thanksgiving meal every performance. Was that what it was?

No. That's what I thought it was going to be before I read it, too. I was like, God, eating on stage, what will that be like? There was no Thanksgiving meal, but we did... It was a bloody show.

Oh, no. What does that mean? You were just killing turkeys.

I don't want to give anything away, although I did just say it was a bloody show. Plus, it's not running anymore. But it's a beautiful, wonderful, funny play written by Larissa Fasthorse, the first Native American woman to ever have a play on Broadway. Wow, that's below. But we were truly covered in blood head to toe every night, so we'd walk off stage and get in the shower.

Now I'm getting it. Not together. Now I'm understanding the-Who said that?

Storyline.

No, nobody did. But Darcy, we're so excited because Smartlist Media, it has a new show, and it's called Wickedole. That's right.

No blood in it at all, right? No blood.

We haven't had any blood. No blood yet.

But Wickedole premieres Monday, March fourth, where we get your podcast. We're super excited.

Tell our listeners that don't know as much about it as we do a little about what the Wiki hole, what's in store for people in the hole. They need to know.

They need to know. It's a super fun trivia show. We have a panel of three guests every time.

Different guests each week?

Different. Super funny. The funiest people you know. The best, best, best, funiest actors and comedians and musicians. Some of my best friends, some of my future best friends. We've had amazing people on it.

Basically, what? You have one subject, one person?

We start off with any random subject that you could look up on Wikipedia.

A donut. A donut, for example. It's like an improv class. Give me one word from the audience. Yes, totally. Totally.

From there- If you looked up donut on Wikipedia, you would find yourself clicking on-Picture of me.

It's a picture of Sean.

A picture of Sean, right. There's little, what do they call? Hot Lings inside. Yeah. Spicy Hot Lings inside a wiki page. When you click on those things, it'll take you down another fork in the road in the history of donuts. We may get eventually to a picture of Sean because he's famous for his enjoyment of the donut. Live for Don. Then we'd get into a wiki hole that we get into Will and Grace and into parental neglect. All of those things. Yeah. Okay.

That's it. That's exactly right.

Then it'll get back into SmartList, and then it'll get back into Wiki hole, and you'll be right back where you started.

Will, I don't want to give anything away. I really don't.

You're our tour guide throughout it.

Yeah, I'm always going to take you through the hole.

I've listened to it, and it's fantastic. Thanks, Sean.

You're hysterical. I love it. You are. I want to play Wiki Hole. How do we?

I want to-Yeah, I would love you to. Let's play. Will you? Yeah.i'm going to play right now? Let's do it. Okay. If we were to start with the smart list hole, there's so many... I could start with anything. You guys have had these incredible careers. You've worked with everybody. You have won awards. But the thing that I keep coming back to is one man's sandwich. Sean, you have a goddamn tuna fish sandwich for lunch every day. Is that right? Almost every day. Okay, almost every day. That is psychotic. I had to find out more. So I wicked tuna sandwiches. He's going to have one today, actually.

Really?

I might, too. Here is our first question, okay? The top of the hole today is going to be tuna fish sandwich. Okay, so for the first question, you each have a chance to list the ingredients, okay? You're going to get one point per ingredient. Don't freak out, Sean. Don't freak out.

I see you're freaking out. It's just going to be there's so many different ingredients you could put in.

Okay, but listen, there are five ingredients listed to make a tuna fish sandwich at the top of the tuna fish sandwich wiki page. The five ingredients, the most common five ingredients. Mayonnaise.

Okay. Celery.

Yeah. Wow.

Nothing for celery?

No, I'm not going to tell you until you all do it. Okay. Yeah, you each say five.

Okay, so mayonnaise and celery.

Mayonnaise and celery.

Some people put mustard in it. Some people put capers in it. Okay. And hard-earned eggs.

Okay. Can I go now?

Yes, please.

Tunafish. Fucking idiot. Well, of course. Yeah, guess what? That's one of them. No, you didn't say it. You didn't say it. Well, that's too bad.

Understood.

So, tuna fish- You're out.

No, it's not understood. You're out. Have you ever played a game before?

Well, you're not going to make a Tunafish sandwich with chicken.

It's like I was like, I obviously got a countdown. I'm not going to go get the countdown. I obviously just assumed that I got a countdown.

So, tuna fish, mayonnaise, bread, celery, and And pepper. Okay.

A pepper. Will, you ready? Yeah.

Okay. Tunafish.

Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying this or no. I'm just saying, yeah, you said that. Yeah, I know.

Okay. Bread, mayo, celery.

Slower, Will.

No, he's thinking.

Onion. Green onion.

Okay.

It's personal preference, and that's only four. What's your fifth?

No, I think you said... Wait, didn't you say... I think you said five. You guys, guess what?

What?

Will got all fucking five right.

You're joking me.

I'm not kidding. Say it again. Tuna, mayo, celery, onion, bread.

So onion is a required element. Onion is a common- Hang on.

Sorry, Darcy, I don't want to cut you off because these guys are about to apologize to me for ridicule. Jason's got something in his mouth right now, but I imagine when he finishes chewing that thing, he's going to apologize for going, Oh, fucking, fucking, fucking, fucking.

White onion or white onion or red onion?

Well, it just says onion. It doesn't. It just says That's interesting.

I got to try it with the onion.

Yeah, I bet it'd be delicious. I mean, all your sandwiches sounded delicious, but Will got them all right. Jason got four points and Will... I'm sorry. Jason got four points, and Sean got two points.

Yeah, Sean, you lose.

What? You're a failure. We have more. It's anybody's game.

All right, so what's the spicy hot link we go to off of this page? Fuck, you know what?

Sean, you are a donut. What a zero.

Okay, let's keep going.

You eat it every day. You don't even know what you're eating.

I know what I like.

Do you have it No. Sean, what do you put in yours?

Tuna. Don't say tuna like that.

Of course, you have to put fucking tuna.

Tuna, celery, and tons of mayo.

Yummy, yummy, yummy. Okay, great. Delicious.

Dorsey, wait. If you think I'm playing again after I fucking smoked these guys.

No, we're not done. We're not done. You just entered the hole. You had to travel down into the hole now.

We have to scale down this gigantic hole. This is even a small hole for you guys, but usually it's a really big hole.

Click Click a spicy link.

Click a spicy-I want to get some credit. I want to get some credit for the restraint. You're getting it. That I'm exercising.

Incredible.

Okay, so here's our next question. You will each have a chance to answer this. The closest without going over wins. What percentage of canned tuna in the US is used for tuna sandwiches?

Okay, I'm a first. I'm first. Go for it. I will say what percentage of canned tuna is used for tuna Fish Sandwich? I would say 90. Okay. That's That's my guess.

Great.

Well, because he said 90, I'll say 95.

Okay.

Dumb. Should have said 91.

Dumb.

I'm going to say 40.

Okay. Now, I was shocked by this, but the answer is 52%, so Will, you fucking got it again. Wow.

Jesus. Why is that? Because I bet you some of tuna that's canned is also used for animals, for cats and dogs and shit like that.

I didn't even think of that. All I could think of was casserole.

Yeah. It's a fucking... By the way, you don't want to keep playing this game with me with these guys. Okay.

No, I bet we do. Let's have third one.

You're going to burst into flames.

Let's go. What's the next hot one?

Okay, here we Look how mad he is. Okay, here we go. Americans consume one-third of the total amount of canned tuna sold worldwide every year, and yet the tuna sandwich is not in the top three most popular sandwiches in the US. You'll each have a chance to guess three. What are the most popular sandwiches? The three most popular sandwiches in the US, one point per, correct.

Go ahead, Sean.

Go ahead, Sean.

Peanut butter and jelly.

Sean, you should win this.

Yeah, let's just say peanut butter and jelly.

Okay.

Like a regular turkey sandwich.

No, you can't generalize. Be specific. Like something with turkey. No. Commit.

I would have got a touch down. I'm not going to eat. Why are you on the inside?

To walk all the way down there and cross that line.

Just say Touchdown.

Okay. Peanut butter, jelly, turkey.

Turkey. What's another popular sandwich? Are you asking? And roast beef. I don't know.

That's the question.

I would say a hamburger. Okay. That's not a sandwich. I would say a grilled cheese, and then I would say a club.

Okay.

Three more popular sandwiches in the US?

That's right. Here he comes.

I would say ham, some ham, ham and cheese.

Well, which is it? Ham or ham and cheese?

Yeah.

Let's commit.

Ham and cheese.

Okay. Ham and cheese.

I'll say ham and cheese. Okay. We'll say it. I will say peanut butter and jelly, and I will say egg salad.

Okay, wow. This is a tough one, you guys. I would have guessed peanut butter and jelly would have been top number one. It doesn't even crack the top three.

That's why I didn't guess it.

Okay, good. Well, Jason, you got Which is, I know, grilled cheese. Grill cheese, grilled chicken sandwich, surprising, and turkey sandwich. So, Sean, you got one as well. Okay. No burger, no PB&J.

I wonder if they're not qualifying burger as a sandwich.

I wonder the same.

That's a big debate.

Yeah, it is a big debate.

They're not. I mean, this isn't the 1940s where you go, I'll have a hamburger sandwich.

I'll just have a hamburger sandwich and a cup of coffee.

I don't like that.

Put me through to Murray Hill 234.

Yeah, exactly. I don't Keep your sales receipt.

Okay, let's jump on down the hole to sandwiches. Let's keep going with this. Wikipedia has a list devoted to American sandwiches. The only sandwich whose ingredients are a mystery on this list is the Diablo sandwich. Diablo sandwich. Here we go. You'll each have a chance to answer this multiple choice question. In what hit 1970s movie does someone order a Diablo sandwich? A, Love B, The Poseidian Adventure, or C, Smoky and the Bandit.

Well, I say Smoki and the Bandit.

Okay. Poseidian Adventure. Okay.

I'm just guessing the Diablo.

I was going to say Five Easy Pieces because there was that great scene where Jack Nicholson does the sandwich a bit, huh?

Oh, yeah. I'm going to say Love Story just so we each take one.

I like that move. Sean, you got it.

Smoki and the Bandit. God, if Will had won that one, we would never hear the end of it. He'd be the King Hole.

That's what we're playing for, to be the King Hole King. Hole King.

Hole King. What's your handle in high school, isn't it, Will?

Hole King.

Whole King.

Whole King. Sheriff Justice, played by Jackie Gleason, orders a Diablo sandwich. It's a very funny scene. I watched it last night.

When I get home, I'm going to hit your mama right in the mouth. That was it. You know what he said? Something like that. There's no way you could come from my loins. Good. Who won, Darcy? Okay.

My little mouse will tell me the score in five seconds, and I'll get a little...

You guys, Will is the winner with six points.

Jason and Sean, you both had five. You were so goddamn close.

What does one get when they win or lose on the Wiki hole?

You're going to love this. You get a generous donation made in your name to Wikipedia.

I like that. Oh, that's good.

They're always looking. Which is great, right? Because they're always looking. Yeah, we need that. You're never actually saying yes. You're always Xing it out.

Now I can feel less guilty for just clicking through that. Exactly.

That's exactly right. Very good. Okay, guys, I have one more question for you. What is Henry Winkler's favorite sandwich?

The Hoagie? I want to say a shark sandwich. That's what I want to say, but it's- I'm going to say...

You mean the jumping the shark sandwich? Yeah.

I would say the hollowed out bagel.

You think he'd hollow out a bagel? No, I don't want to put my opinion on it.

I've had it at his house with him before.

Yeah. All right. Okay. Well, to get the answer, we have a very special message from a very special guest.

Hi, Jason, Will and Sean. It's Henry Winkler with the answer to my favorite sandwich.

There are two parts.

The first is a tuna sandwich with mayo, ketchup, and finely diced onions on Wonder Bread. Part two is the day after Thanksgiving sandwich, Wonder Bread again, see the Bridge, mayo, turkey, fried stuffing, Cranberry sauce out of the can. None of that Berry crap. And then Wonder Bread. Hey, Dorce, what is it like actually being a guest on the show? And then instead of just being a question, I had two of them at my dining room table, and the tall one, that third guy, I helped him get his Tony. You know what, Dorce?

You're on a new podcast, WikiHole, and I could bring one or both sandwiches if I were a guest on that podcast.

There you go. What a sweet hard guest.

How great is that?

We love him.

I love him. I mean, if I could put him in a sandwich, I'd snack on him all day, every day.

He's so delicious. He's the nicest man in show business.

I've got an issue with his Wonder Bread addiction, though, darn it. I want him around for hundreds of years.

I know. What is it that? But it is delicious. It is delicious. Okay, quickly, I'm going to retrace the hole. We started with tuna fish sandwich Which led us to American Sandwiches, which then led us to Smoky and the Bandit, which led us to Henry Winkler, and right back to Tunafish Sandwiches.

I mean, how about one of his sandwiches was Tunafish Sandwich? I love that.

I I know. He's a smart guy. The full episode, we go a little bit deeper into these wiki holes. It's super fun. You're going to love it. Play along with us. We can't wait. My three brothers, I'd love to have you on the full hole.

We would love it. See you at the hole. See you at the hole.

See you at the hole.

So many times I've gotten that.

Now, listen, this is information we need to know. It premieres Monday, March fourth, wherever you get your new podcast, and new episodes are released every week, or you can hear it a week early on Amazon Music or the Wendery app starting Monday February 26th.

Monday, February 26th, you say?

Monday, February 26th. Is that what you say?

Monday, February 26th, you say?

Oh, the 26th of February is when WikiHole is going to start. Wikihole with Darcy Carton. Is at the end of February, specifically on the 26th, I think. That's right. Is the early week on Amazon WNDY. That's the early week.

For everybody on March fourth.

I love that. Yeah.

Free wherever you get your podcast.

March fourth, wide. The RC, we love you. We can't wait for the new show. Thank you for being part of the family on Smartless Media.

You guys, I love you so much.

Thank you for doing this.

Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. Bye, guys.

Bye.

If you like Smartless, you can listen early and add free right now by joining WNDY Plus in the WNDRI app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wndri. Com/survey.

In the 1980s, Frank Farian was riding high as a successful German music producer, but he was bored. German pop was formulaic, dull, and oh, so white. Frank had bigger dreams, American dreams. He wanted to create the music that would rival larger than life artists like Michael Jackson or Run DMC. So he assembled a hip hop duo, two once in a lifetime talents who were charismatic, full of sex appeal, and phenomenal dancers. The only problem, one very important element was missing, but Frank knew just how to fix that. Wndyri's new podcast, Blame It On The Fame, dives into one of pop music's biggest controversies. Millie Vanille set the world on fire. But when their adoring fans learned about the infamous lip syncing, their downfall was swift and brutal. With exclusive interviews from frontman Fad Morvan and his producers Frank Barian and Ingrid Segui, this podcast takes a fresh look at the exploitation of two young Black artists. Follow Blame It On The Fame wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Blame It On The Fame early and ad-free by joining WNDYRI Plus.