Hello. I'm your host, Caroline Chambers, and this is So Into That, the podcast where I invite cool people to tell us all about something that they're really into right now. My first guest ever is Emily Oster, and I don't even know where to start. Emily is a professor of economics at Brown University. And upon becoming a mother herself, she realized that she could take her expertise in data analyzation to help other parents make informed decisions about pregnancy and parenting. She and I chat about what we're really into right now, including the soft pants that she can get away with wearing in a very serious work environment. And then I grill her for the real down and dirty on a lot of things that make a lot of us anxious, like sleep training and whether baby-led weaning is actually making our kids better eaters or if it's all just one more thing to make us feel more anxious. And of course, whether skipping the fall season of U4 soccer is going to ruin my son's chances at marrying a Spice Girl. Emily is my mother, Heirhood, and Messiah. She is single-handedly responsible for making me a calmer, better, happier mother.

Her research helped me stop stressing over every little thing and just learn to enjoy the ride because she shows us that it's really hard to screw up a kid if we just try. Here's Emily. Emily, welcome to So Into That. You are my very first guest. And I'm so pumped to have you because, as you know, because I send you tribulations of my love and my friend's love. I send you screenshots of my friends being like, Emily Oster talked about you, Caroline. Carol, will you ask Emily Oster this question? And you know how much we adore you. And every single person who I meet who tells me that they're pregnant, and they ask, What do I do? Any advice? I say, Pick up the book, expecting better by Emily Oster, and do nothing else. Listen to that and chill the fuck out because she will help you do so. So I'm really pumped to have you on So Into That, and we're going to talk about some stuff that we're really into right now.

I can't wait. I am such a big fan of you. As you know, I love your food. I love.

Your approach to food. Sometimes your kids.

Love my food. Sometimes my kids. My kids like your food because it's often in different bowls, and that's what they like. You're just a great big fan.

Thank you. I'm going to go first. I'm going to tell you what I'm really into right now. As we were just discussing, I have been moving. I've been moving. We bought this house in 2020. It's a 1960s, post-adobe, very California, like, cottage-y situation. It was not... It was not up to code. It had a lot of issues. So we renovated it. We spent the last eight months of renovating it, and we've just moved back in three days ago. And moving with three small children is like a special form of torture. It's like, I.

Mean, honestly. Dante missed that one in his circles of hell, but it would be five and a half.

Five and a half, I think, is moving with one small child. Forget it. Moving with three, don't ever do that again. So I have the fortune this time, this is the first time, like you, I've moved a lot. My husband was in the military. We've moved a lot. It was always to a new place where we didn't know a soul. And so there was no one there to help us to do any other things. Every now and then, somebody would come by, nice to meet you, drop off a cookie, maybe that. But this is the first time we lived here for three years, and we're coming back. And so our neighbors who we adore, we're in Carme Valley, California. It's very country. I'm looking at mountains and lots of trees. And we're in the country. And everyone in this neighborhood really knows each other. I think, especially during COVID, everyone got to know each other doing our walks, daily walks. Everyone got to chat. And so we are moving back into a neighborhood where we have a lot of people who we love and who love us. My thing that I am so into right now is neighbors act in neighborly.

What I mean by that, day one, my neighbor, Leslie, texts me, I'm dropping off dinner in two hours. I know you need it. She shows. I was like, I do need it. Normally, I'd be like, What? I'm moving into a house that I renovated. That's a privilege, right? I mean, having a baby is also a privilege, but it's not like I just birth the child. Do I really deserve a meal out of you? But I was like, You know what, Leslie? My children haven't eaten a vegetable in 17 days. I will take dinner. She showed up with this feast, a salad, a side of vegetables that the kids would actually eat, aka, steamed broccoli, ablutas. The best part, the kicker, plastic plates or paper plates and plastic forks. She thought of everything. She thought of everything. I was like, This is honestly, I've never felt so taken care of in my life. When I was postpartum, I was more able to take care of myself than I was in that moment. I didn't have Wi-Fi set up to even order food. Postpartum, all you're doing is sitting there with a baby on your boob, I can order DoorDash all day long when I'm postpartum.

The meals are lovely. You feel loved. But do you need them? I needed this meal, and she showed up. The next day, who brought food the next day? The next day, my neighbor Tess shows up with soup, and she texted me and said, I'm bringing you soup and fresh bread for dinner tonight. I was like, Oh, my God, that's so nice. Literally, it was three o'clock. I was like, I haven't eaten a single morsel all day. Thank you. She shows up with not only the soup and the bread, but also a turkey sandwich. She was like, You haven't eaten all day. Eat this turkey sandwich. Oh, my God. That just continued to happen. That's so nice. That's just... What's going to happen? We're in the country. People own trailers. Somebody brought their trailer over to haul our boxes away for us. Just neighbors act in neighborly. I don't know. I think there is just something so incredible about showing up for people when they don't particularly like... It's not like I was sick. It's not like I had a baby. This was a thing that I did to myself. I did this. I moved. I renovated this house.

Yet people know, she's going to be stressed. She's going to be really busy. They showed the F up. That was really cool. That's what I'm so into right now. Now my sole focus for the next month is like, how can I be a better neighbor to all these people who showed up for us?

That's lovely. Oh, my gosh. I love it.

I know. We should all be so lucky as to move back into neighborhoods where we've already lived so that our pre-existing neighbors can take care of us during.

Such a time. No, but I think it's also such a nice comment about where you live because there are a lot of places where you could live there for 10 years. You could move out, you could move back in, and people would be like, Oh.

Are those people back?

That you know like, new neighbors. They put the lights on. I mean, the house that we moved, we know our neighbors some, but the house we moved into, the people hadn't lived in it for seven years. I don't think anybody... Somebody not like. They're back from vacation. They're back from vacation. They're like, Oh, you're not- Are they not kids? You're not Jill and Bob? I was like, No, we're not Jill and Bob. Also, Jill and Bob, a lot of people who used to work for Jillian, like the drain cleaner guy was like, Are you working for Jillian? I was like, No, we bought a house for Jillian. He was like, Oh, she was really tough. She was a tough lady.

That's okay. Well, then now it's decoded. Now we.

Understand a little more, maybe there's a little more Jill situation.

Oh, no, Jill's back. No. We'll never come again. Jill's back with children this time. We'll never come again. Yeah, I have to say. So I also I told you we live in the country and country people, this is our first house where we've ever lived in the country. We've always lived in cities or at least a proper town. We are like in the country, like we have a septic system. Country people love hobbies. And so all of my neighbors have hobbies. My my neighbor Andy, two days ago, brought over home-cured prosciuto. He had raised the hog, cured the meat, sliced it, and brought it over with his kids and the stroller handed me this plate of prosciuto, I was like, What the? During COVID, people were making their own hand sanitizer from their wine distilleries because everybody makes wine in the country here. There's just lots of... Not only is it... If the Apocalyptic is absent, I'm saying you should fly out here if there's planes during the Apogly. Get here and we have the whole compound. We have wine. We have sourdough, bread makers. We have everything.

Right here. It's a deal.

All right. We have everything right here. All right, I'm there. All right. Emily, what are.

You Okay, well, your thing was so nice. Your thing was so nice. My thing is pants.

Oh, my God.

Great answer. From Athleta. My thing is I don't really like hard pants anymore. Like many, most people post-pandemic. Then I started doing a lot of sports, and so I decided it was okay to start doing a lot of running. I was like, Oh, it's okay to wear athletic clothes virtually all.

The time. It only makes sense.

But then sometimes I go to my office, the other day, I came in and I have this lovely junior colleague down the hall. This was a couple of months ago. It was basically his first day at this job. It's the summer. I'm wearing a Lululemon shorts, quite short Lululemon shorts and a T-shirt. Also from Lululemon, which is basically I'm just wearing my exercise clothes. I don't think I was wearing a sports bra, but it was a regular bra, but basically just... That's it. And he's wearing a suit.

Lay the scene. He's an economist.

Yeah, he's a 23-year-old economist. He's just been hired at an Ivy League University, shows up for his first day in his office. There's only one other person on the floor. There are some other offices. And I know him pretty well, so it wasn't so terrible. But he was just like... And then he was like, Oh, are you coming from exercise? And I was like, No, no.

What do you want me to say? I was like, Well, maybe there's the right answer.

But then I don't want to be like, Oh, I'm just like... I was like, No, I'm just getting off of Zoom.

Just wearing soft clothes, man.

Just wearing soft clothes. So then I've discovered that Athleta makes a lot of pants that look a little more... They look like you could wear them for work, but they're basically sweatpants.

And- Okay, so give us the deeds. What's the name?

I like their lined Brooklyn pants.

Yes, I own that pant.

Wearing it today.

It's best travel pant.

Yeah, you just doesn't... It's great.

You look like you're wearing a nice trouser, but surprise.

It's soft. But it's sweatpants, I know.

It doesn't have a waistband. It doesn't stress you.

I'm really into that.

Yeah, okay, I'm really into that too. Okay, so my favorite athletic belonging that I talk about all the time is the salutation legging. The Athleta, salutation legging. Are you familiar? Do you own it?

No, I don't own this.

I probably sound like I need it. Well, next time you pop in for a pair of work trousers to your favorite athlete brand.

Internet website where I purchase. Yeah.

Next time you pop in, get a pair of salutation legging. They have the huge pocket down the side of the pant to hold. I mean, I store a full days' belongings in there. I've got my cell phone, I've got my earplugs. I've got a snack, a sandwich, a sandwich. I've got a snack. Snack. My truck is a sandwich from my neighbor. Some self-care. Prashooto from neighbor Andy in the right pocket. I don't know if your kids did this when they were minor five, three, one. But I get littleI get gifts all day long. There's a gift right here. Yeah, treasures all day long. Pipe cleaners rolled up. That's a snake, mom. Okay. Rocks, mom. This is a very special rock. You can't let it go. You have to make sure that you have it for at least an hour until their goldfish brain forgets. Yeah, because if you lose it, mom, that was my very special present that I made for you. I've got rocks in my consultation like, You can store so many things. So this podcast episode is unofficially sponsored by Athleta because I am right there with you. I love the Brooklyn pant for travel.

I first bought them when I was going to visit George. He was deployed in the Philippines, and I wanted to look nice when I needed to look hot. I hadn't seen him in eight months or something. This is when he was in the Navy.

I think, to be fair, that's actually the time with your partner when you most don't need to look hot because it's like, you know. That's actually a.

Very good argument.

Just take whatever. I'm here. I could have.

Had a paper bag over my head.

I'm arrived. I'm physically here and I'm ready. That's it. I could.

Have had lipsticks just swiveled across my face and I would have gotten laid immediately. It's like, no problem. Just get down. Don't talk. Just go. Yeah, that's a soft point. Any wives of military people, don't remember that you don't need to.

Worry about your pants.

You don't need to worry about your pants. Just show up and everything will get taken care of. Yeah, but that's what I bought them, and I still own them like 11 years later. So they're going to treat you right for.

A while. Amazing.

They're going to treat you right. Okay, so I'm like, my favorite thing about you, I have so many favorite things about you, but one of my favorite things about you is, like I said earlier, you just have this ability to help me, my friends, every single parent who finds you on the internet, chill the fuck out. I think that that is the most important thing in parenting. I don't know when it happened. Maybe you do. I don't know why it happened. But I know that my parents were not this anxious and stressed about every single little move that me and my siblings made. Is it social media? What's your take on why do parents now feel like we have to do everything right? Knowing we're all intelligent. We know there's no right answer. Why are we so stressed all the time? Why are we anxious? What's going on? I think.

It's a complicated question. I would say one piece of it has to do with the fact that we're older.

But.

There's a demographic shift towards having kids after you have accomplished more things professionally. You feel like, Look, I tried to get into college. I won that. Then I won this job, and then I won this promotion and I won this. Here's something else I could win. How do I win things? I work hard. I work hard to figure out. The thing is, you can't really win parenting in that way, but I think it imbues this... There's a sense in which this is a thing to accomplish, and that frames it as then you want to do all the things because you're trying to get to some end goal.

That is a really good way to frame it. I have never heard it framed in a way. If you've already said that a million times, I apologize, but I feel like I consume all of your content, and I've never heard it quite laid out like that. That's such a good point that women were having babies so much earlier. They weren't going to college. They weren't having jobs. They weren't having this sense of, I need to be fulfilled. I need to succeed. I need to succeed. I remember, so I tell this story to new moms all the time. I remember going to my pediatrician who I adore and I compared to you because she just helps me chill the fuck out all the time. She's always like, Who cares?

Pediatrician is are really good at that. I will say that pediatricians, just like most pediatricians are just like, Listen, did the arm fall off? It's not off? It's fine. Don't worry about it. Just, you know. Stop calling. Carry on.

Stop texting me, Caren't mine.

That's not why I gave.

You my cell phone number. I showed up to one of my kid's appointments with a box of cookies and on it I said, Sorry about all the dick picks, because they had all just had rashes lately. She was like, You are a psychopath. I was like, Well, I am sorry about all the dick picks. I am sorry. Okay, so I remember going, Mattis is my first. He's almost five. In my first year of his life, I was the most anxious. I mean, I'm not an anxious person, and something about, I mean, A, postpartum anxiety, B, just like trying to do it all right. I was reading all the books. I hadn't found you yet. I was listening to my cousins who did it a certain way, my friends who did it a certain way. I just feel like I was so robbed of the joy that the first year of a baby's life can be. Yes, it's hard, but it's also, God, when you're confident and comfortable, it is the snugglest, best thing ever.

I feel like when I had my second, there was a feeling of like, Oh, it could have been like this. Yes. Before. Then, of course, there was a toddler. I was like, toddler is exhausting. But still. But the baby is just like, Oh, you just hold.

Them and just let them up. You just hold them and you stick them on a boob or a bottle and they stop crying, ideally. But okay, my pediatrician, I remember going to her on the, We're just trying to succeed, succeed note. I remember going to her when Mattis was three months old and being like, so what do I do with him all day long? And she was like, what do you mean? And I was like, just to make sure his brain is getting stimulated, make sure he's growing properly. I just like to be showing him cards. She was like, oh, Caroline. Oh, honey. I was like, what? She was like, Just do whatever you want to do. I was like, What do you mean? No, I need to be at home reading him books, putting flashcards in front of his eyes. It's like black and white fucking flashcards.

I was obsessed with them. They can't see. They can't see color.

Nor do they need to. Nor do they need to. They don't give me flashcards.

They don't give me flashcards.

Oh, my God. I get holding animal flashcards in front of me. She was like, Caroline, do you have friends? I was like, a couple.

Not.

Anymore. It hasn't been.

Going great with the flashcards.

I'm going well. Nobody wants to be around me. I'm trying to train my child on black and white images of antelopes. Nobody wants to be near me. Anyway, she was like, Live your goddamn life. Go to lunch with your friends. Go on a walk. She was like, Do you like walking? I was like, I do, but what if it's too cold? She's like, Oh, my God. Just go on a walk with the baby. I was like, Okay. That was the best lesson I've ever gotten. I literally thought that with a newborn, you were supposed to be doing... I thought you had to be training it to be a baby and to do the things. They just figured out. What? Okay, so then that's month three. Then comes the sleep training stuff. I feel like you recently talked about this. I want the real put out on sleep training because whenever I talk about sleep training on my Instagram, I get just like...

I.

Can't do that. I can't even imagine having the job that you have, because whenever I talk about anything parenting related, it's like, everyone attacks. Even if I'm like, do whatever you want. Baby lead weaning is one way, but you could do it this way. Five million opinions. Don't tell people they can do it anyway. You're giving the death that you're stressing them out. I'm like, Oh, ladies. Do you have like... Well, we'll talk about that later. Sleep training. I did it with my first. It was hell. He was crying all the time. Then with my other two, I just didn't do it. Eventually, they just stopped crying, and I just let them cry a little bit at night, and then they started sleeping through the night. What's your Emily Oster take on sleep training in general? I feel like you said this one thing that I've quoted a lot about the amount of hours. If you do the shush technique where you go in and you pat their bum, they end up crying more if you do that than if you just leave them and let them cry. Give it to me.

All right. There's a few different questions you could ask about sleep training. One is, does it damage your child's attachment? Oh, my God. And the answer is no.

I had forgotten how stressed I was about that.

We have good randomized trial data where they have sleep train, not sleep train. They just look the same later. Which actually gets to your point of they look the same later, they sleep about the same amount later, they're the same amount of attached later. So sleep training isn't some magical thing that if you don't do it, your kid's going to be ruined forever.

Which is what everyone who has slept trained tells you. You have to do 12 and 12 weeks. Mom's on call. You have to do it or they'll never sleep. They will sleep. They'll sleep?

They'll sleep. They'll sleep eventually. They will... This is a way that you will improve their sleep in the short term. It also can have some positive impacts on postpartum depression, on other things. I mean, sleep deprivation for many adults is like a. Sleep deprivation is bad. It's literally a form of torture. I think there is value to sleep training for most babies. It will improve their sleep to some extent. It's not 100% success at all times forever, but on average, this will improve the sleep. Sleep training is such a funny thing because you have... There's so much on both sides. There's the people who are like, You have to do it. And the people who are like, If you do it, you'll ruin your kid. And the answer is like, Neither of those things.

You're evil. You're evil and you.

Don't love your baby. You're evil. Your baby thinks you died. When you leave them, they think you died. What do you mean they think I died? I don't know what that is. It's a baby.

The cave women were off foraging. They didn't think they died.

That's fine. They probably did die. Therefore, it's very difficult to be a cave person. They probably did die, but I did. Very high mortality rate there. But then I think the question is, if you were going to do this, there's that piece, and then there's this much more practical piece, which is like, if you were going to do this, what is the right time? The answer is people think of this as a way to get your kid to sleep through the night, but actually, most babies are not able to sleep through the night until seven, eight months, not none of them. When you think about sleep training, before that, you're really thinking about trying to encourage sleep at the beginning of the night, and then they still eat later. It's about learning to fall back asleep.

The.

Answer to what is the right way to do it is you just have to be consistent, and most people find it much easier to just close the door. The thing people can't do that just doesn't work is staying in the room. There's a version of this where you get out of there. You get out of there. You sit in the room while the kid screams, and no one can... I think basically just no one can fall.

Through on that. Also, by the way, George was a Navy SEAL, being stuck in a room with a loud crying baby on an audio loop, that's a form of torture also.

They do that too. Yeah, so don't stay in the room. Don't do that. Don't stay in the room.

That's not good.

Don't torture yourself. And just most people, you leave, close the.

Door, and then- Yeah. I'm a big proponent of the... I basically, with Mattis, I did the psycho schedule, feed them at 7:00 AM.

Play with them. What is it? It's like an acronym, feed, play, eat, feed, eat, play.

Emily, I was so unhappy. One of my best friends remembers coming to visit me. We live downtown Carmel, and she came to visit it. He's two months old or something, and she and her husband took him on a walk. Of course, I was like, my heart was beating out of my chest. What if they let go of the stroller? What if it rolls down the hill? What if it falls into the ocean? I texted her 10 minutes after they had left and was like, Okay, just be back in seven minutes because he needs to go back down for his nap. She was like, Honey, why? Why? Take a bath. He's perfect. She was like, He's giggling at everyone. He's happy. Why? And I was like, Because it's what the schedule says. I literally have no idea. But I feel like there's so much in parenting advice that we just blindly follow because somebody like they, they.

Said too.

They said that baby lead weaning will make them eat better. They said all.

These things. I also think there's an illusion of control aspect, which is like, you really... It can be so out of control to have a newborn and even to have an older kid. The idea that like, Okay, but just if you do it in this order and if it's 17 minutes to go to sleep, it's cool. We're looking for patterns and control where there isn't any. My husband insisted that we record the number of minutes that she eats from each boob. We had this spreadsheet, and he would have... He put a special computer in her nursery that would have like, You could write down the numbers, and then I would write down these numbers. And he'd be like, Why are all your numbers round numbers? Did she really eat just for exactly 10 or 20 minutes? He's like, My numbers are more precise. And I was like, Well, I don't know. I guess. It's just.

- Okay, I like that your husband had the postpartum anxiety. That's nice. That takes a little bit off of your shoulders. Like a little bit, yeah. My husband was like, Have you seen the baby lately? I'm like, Is it a round? Is it here? It's always here. Yes, it's here. Okay, so my current... So I feel like I've really gotten over a lot of the things that stress moms out in the early days. I now know that baby lead weaning, no offense to baby lead weaning, I think you're trying really hard to show people a cool new way for kids to eat. The fact that they, I think they promote it so heavily as like, if you do baby lead weaning, if you expose them to every single food group, your kid will be an amazing eater. Like, bullshit. As soon as they see chicken fingers at the pool, they will become chicken fingerheads. Forget your halibat. Don't you.

Feel that the... I mean, for me, the argument for baby lead weaning, which I, by the way, did with my second kid, and I thought was great, it's just that it was lazy. It was just easier because I don't want to buy all the purees, which just rotted in.

The closet.

After the first kid.

No puree. I don't want to sit there and spoon-feed it to them.

Right. It's just like if you can get your own food, you eat it. Otherwise, you make do with the boob. Yes. So do you make a deal? And then you just get your shit together.

So people, whenever they see my third, Cash, feeding himself a slice of pizza at age six months, they're like, Oh, you're doing baby lead weeding. What are your tips? And I'm like, Just - Have.

Two other children that you're focused on and a job. That's my big tip. Just like my big tip, be busy.

That's the tip. Just get care less because you don't have time to care. There is... I don't know. Oh, my God, the amount of... I would get every single vegetable and cut it up into the perfect slices that they can hand-hold it for Mattis. And guess what? He eats chicken fingers. He eats bread with jam, but he refuses to have butter on it. He eats pizza if he's in the mood. That's it. That's what he eats. And eventually, he's going to eat real food. I have a really good feeling about it that he's not going to go to college eating only chicken fingers. Totally. This episode of So Into That is brought to you by Scout Organic. Scout bars are my kid's absolute favorite snack in the entire world. This is what they want all the time. They reach for these. They're in the cabinet where they can grab them because when they are there, I don't have to feed their constant, Mommy, I need a snack, concerns. Scout bars have seven ingredients or less all the time. They are always organic ingredients. They're always like actual foods. This one, this peanut butter and jelly flavor has organic dates, peanut butter, organic strawberries, organic strawberry essence.

That's it. That's the whole bar. And man, I'm telling you, your kids will devour these. My one year old devours them. My three year old, my five year old, he's almost five. They all love them. Try them out. Scoutorganic. Com. That's scout with a Korganic. Com and try my code, Caro, for a big fat discount. I do feel like I have a good... Yeah, if he does, he'll be fine. I do feel like I have a good grasp on age five and below anxieties. Here's something that is current in my life that I want you to tell me the shit the fuck out about. Mattis is five, as I've said. He is now deeply in extracurricular age, which is insane. He can't even kick a ball in a straight line. Why am I dragging myself to soccer practice at 08:00 AM on a Saturday morning? Which is exactly why I opted out of soccer for the past two seasons. All my friends have been doing it since they were three. I did it once. We've been moving. I've been writing a book, whatever. I didn't want to. I was busy. I didn't want to. And then I watched the David Beckham, the Beckham documentary, and I thought, did I just...

Because I am not exposing Mattis to soccer at age five, am I thus not giving him the opportunity to become obsessed with it, which then he will become David Beckham, and then he will end up marrying Posh Spice? Did I just ruin his chances at having a documentary on Netflix someday? You know what I mean?

Yeah, I know. You probably did. Let me give you the counter example. For example, Misty Copeland, very famous ballerina, did not dance at all until she was 13. Then she became this incredibly successful ballerina. And you know why that is? Because Misty Copeland is a really, really, really talented ballerina, just like David Beckham is a really, really talented soccer player. And I'm sorry to say, I don't think your kid's David Beckham. I mean, maybe you don't know. You don't know. I don't want to.

Prison you. But you can't be David.

Beckham if you only eat chicken figures. That's how I know. David Beckham, tell him he wants to be David Beckham, he's going to eat more vegetables.

David Beckham was crushing vegetables.

Crushing vegetables. But no, I think this is the thing. When you look at the data about extracurriculars and you ask, What is the value of extracurriculars? It's not none. The value of extracurriculars is that for a lot of kids, this is an opportunity to be in a space that's different from school, that's a different social environment, something they like that they're good at. If your kid loves to play soccer, the day that school is bad and didn't go well and they're feeling like their friends are not doing it, the opportunity to go out and hang out, even if they're not good at it, the opportunity to be with their team and be like, That's what extracurriculars are for. That's their value. And that shows up in the data. But you don't have to be David Beckham, and you don't have to be doing it every Saturday morning and ruining your family's life at 5:00 for them to get that later. I think that if we reframed extracurriculars as a little bit more of like, This is like an opportunity for our kids to do something different at get outside, like exercise, I think it would be so much healthier because your kid's not going to be...

Your kid's not going to college... They're certainly not going to professionally professional soccer, and they're almost certainly not going to college for it. This is not what is happening.

Why do you say that? Is it because I skipped.

U4.

Soccer this fall season? Yeah, that is such a good reframe. Okay, what is wrong with us? Because I play tennis, and I'm horrible, and I've never been like, I shouldn't play anymore because I'm horrible, or I should try harder and practice more because I'm horrible. No, I get out there. I have fun. I get a little exercise. I chitchat with the girls.

That's the point. It's an activity. It's fun.

Yeah, and it takes me away from my kids, which to your point, these soccer takes him away from school, takes him away from his little brothers who are all up on his junk all the time. Okay, so extracurriculars are a good thing, but don't stress out if we skipped you.

For soccer. Also, make sure it's something that they like. I think that it's like sometimes I think we decide what extracurriculars our kids could do based on some view that like, Well, everybody plays soccer, or everyone does, or like, This will be good. I think the worst argument is like, This will be good for them in high school, or This will be like, College is like this sport. That's not a good reason to have your kid do stuff. The reason to have them do it is if it's something they enjoy. And so responding a little bit to where our kids are in terms of the stuff they like is.

Pretty good. Yeah, I really like that. Sometimes I feel stressed out that I'm like, What does he like? Have I exposed him to enough things? Oh, right, the other thing, yeah. For instance, George and I both grew up in the south. Everybody in the south goes to church every Sunday, whether or not you really are hardcore God believer. My parents are into faith, but we don't talk about God all the time, but we went to church all the time. Mattis, there was a church in a book we were reading recently, and he said, What? What is that? I was like, That's a church. He was like, What is a church?

I was like.

Oh, interesting. So if he wanted to get into faith, which would be so cool, I'm not giving him the opportunity. But again, I think your point is-.

He's going to.

Learn about it. He's going to.

Grow up.

Things will happen. He's going to learn about it at school, whatever.

I will tell you, my daughter's super into the violin. She's super into it, far beyond where I would... If she really likes it, she's got like... That's her thing. It's a very important part of her identity. And she started doing that because she saw a violin when she was five and was like, I want to do that.

That's really cool. And so.

You're like, Okay, you can do that. And the thing is it's superannoying. I mean, I love that she's doing it, but it's like the other day I had to spend the whole morning driving out to some high school out in God knows, Situid, Rhode Island, so she could do some audition for five minutes and then drive. But you do stuff like that. Even if you don't push this event, your kid may find their thing and you may find yourself on the travel soccer pitch for nothing. But you should be there because they want to be there and it's something they love and not because of you.

Yeah. If I had to guess, you're not forcing her to practice her violin.

I don't get involved. She's told that I don't know what I'm doing, which is true because I didn't practice my own violin.

Okay, that's cool because I played the flute. I tried to play the flute, and I just so remember my parents being like, Have you've never practiced yet today?

I was like, No, I played the piano and I never practiced. It's awful. If you don't practice... It's so interesting to watch it. If you practice every day, then when you show up at the end of the week, you've made progress and your teacher likes you. Whereas I was like, Wow, that's such an interesting experience. When I did this as a kid, every week it was like, I would ride for 10 minutes before Mrs... I don't remember what her last name was, but she would show up at my house and she would just be super disappointed because I never made any progress.

Yes. And yet you didn't care because you weren't passionate about it.

I wasn't. I didn't care. I was just a wank.

Of quit. She cares. But she cares. Oh, my God. Okay. All right. Well, this interview with you was really selfish. Motives were to help me chill the fuck out about new things that I'm trying to freak out about. I think I just need to revisit the... Which one is about this age? The family firm? I need to revisit and just have a good dose of like, why are you freaking out? Your kid isn't going to be David Beckham either way.

Exactly. I think it actually says that in there. It says your kid's not going to the Junior Olympics.

There you go. Get off your high horse. Now I.

Have I've developed through some odd circumstances a number of... I've developed some, like parasocial friends who are professional athletes, professional runners mostly, who did go to the Olympics. And so sometimes they'll be like, What do I do about this? And I want to be like, Your kid's not going to the Olympics. Actually like, I don't want to rule it out for you. But anyway, the advice is probably very helpful.

I'm going to stick with my advice, but.

Also- But just to know, maybe upgrade a little bit.

Maybe taking the extra practice if they're interested. Okay, we talked about what we're so into. We're so into neighbors and we're so into the Brooklyn athletic band. What is something that you're so out on right now? You just don't want to hear anything else about it. You are out on that. You want me to go first?

I don't know. Yeah, you go first. Wait, I had a good one minute. Yeah, you go first.

You want to know what I'm out on? I'm out on Stanley Cups. Do you know what that is? After that video with the thing, the guy in.

The car that it they're burnt down?

You're not on Stanley Cups? Oh, my God. Okay, wait. That was actually nice. So now I take it back. That was nice. Okay, so if you haven't seen what Emily is talking about, Stanley Cups are these insulated cups. But the reason that I'm out on them is that every influencer pushes them. They're like $40, and they don't... They leak. They aren't good cups. They leak. You can't put them in your bag because they have this giant straw, so you can't put them in your bag. You're having to carry this giant cup all the time. So you look like a meme of an influencer. If you carried around, they're dumb looking, and I don't like them. But they did just do this really nice thing. So they are insulated, and I guess they're quite indestructive. And this woman's car completely caught on fire, like shot to shit, ashes. And the Stanley Cup was sitting there fully and she shared a video and Stanley Cup bought her a new car. Now I feel like a bitch.

That was nice. No, I mean, I think it's... Sorry, I didn't mean to.

Bring it. No, I'm out on Stanley Cups. They leak, and I don't think they're good, but I do like their morals. That was very... That was nice.

That was nice. I thought that was nice.

Okay. That was really nice.

I am out on daily savings time.

Oh, my God. I don't.

Like that it's dark at night. I don'tlike it. I don't like it. I don't like it. So sad. It's sad. It did mean that it's lighter in the morning when I run, but it's the timing and such that it's still not light. It's still that I'm leaving to run in the dark, and also now it's dark at night, and.

I don't like it. You leave at what? 5:30?

Closer to.

6:00 usually. Okay, but yeah, it's still dark. Yes, I couldn't agree more. Didn't Congress, aren't we not going to do that anymore? I thought.

We were like... Somebody I work with works in Arizona, and they don't have daily savings time. They just don't do it. They just hard-pass. She was like, Now I'm only two hours off from you guys because we don't do that shit.

Yeah, we were talking about going on vacation somewhere recently, and someone was like, Oh, we got to go between these months and these months because then there's no time change for the kids. I was like, What the... Where are we? Is this the.

Bermuda triple? I feel like -in Rhode Island? -we're just like, We're in Rhode Island couldn't do it as a state because basically, we're in Massachusetts. Rhode Island is like... Although we're very proud of it, it's like basically I'm like running to Massachusetts some of the time in the morning. It's a little awkward if you're like running into a different.

Time zone. Meetings would be very difficult.

Meetings would be confusing.

Rhode Island time or Massachusetts time, yeah, it would be a whole complicated thing. But I really hope we drop that because I completely agree, especially when the kids get home from school and I'm like, okay, it's dinner time. And they're like, Mom, it's four o'clock.

I'm like, What? How can... Is it not time for wine? What do we - What are we doing for the rest of the day?

Is it not time for wine yet? Yeah, I know. It's not wine o'clock. And we often find that our kids really like to fight their pants off in our house, but other places, they're much more lovely to each other. Do your kids fight a lot? My kids really...

No, my kids are like, I think the.

Gender, the boy, girl, and child. Boy, girl? Yeah.

Three boys. Also my daughter is 12.

Yeah, she's not fighting. That means they're fighting some. Well, my four-year-old and three-year-old boys... Emotional. Yeah, emotional. My four-year-old and three-year-old boys fighting on top. When we are out of this house, they fight a lot less. Other people around, things to do, I don't know, a lot less fighting. It's just easier to parent them. We live... Carma Valley is like all vineyards. We basically go to a vineyard, and we let them run around, and we drink a glass of wine, and it's lovely. But when it's dark out, can't do it. I'm with you. With you. I freaking hate it. Okay, tell me something in real life that made you laugh really hard recently. An IRL, lo-o.

My daughter, somehow we got into a thing at dinner where we all switched seats and pretended to be the other, like the person whose seat we were in because my kids would be funny. And my daughter did an impression of me, which was disturbing in its accuracy, which she basically... It's hard to replicate, but it was like, The potatoes didn't cook, and now everything is ruined, and we're never going to have dinner again, and I'm just throwing them in the sink, and I guess I'll just go hungry, and I'll cook for all the rest of you, and I'll never eat anything. I was like, Oh, yeah. I mean, we just... But I peep my pants. I mean, she was so... It was like so perfect, odd point. It was a little disturbing, but you know.

It's just so funny when kids do really, really funny shit. It makes it that much funnier because you're like, I didn't know that humor lived within you. I know.

That was...

Yeah, I didn't know that was... I didn't know that was... Okay, my IRL, L-O-L, from the week is that... Right before bedtime, a couple of days ago, George had to discipline Mattis and whatever. He took a toy away. Mattis comes out the next morning. Mattis went to bed mad at George. He was chuffed. He was pissed at George like, You took my toy. We get up the next morning, we've forgotten about this entirely because we're constantly taking toys away and having to discipline him. And Mattis comes out of his room in the morning for the first time with this huge Lego creation. It's wonderful. It's like this big, the size of his torso. It's really big. And he holds it up to George, and he goes, Hey, Daddy, I made you a present. And George goes, Oh, thanks, buddy. And he goes to hand it to him, and he just purposefully drops it on the ground. It shatters everywhere, and he just turns around and walks back into his room. George is... George was laughing so hard that he couldn't even get mad. He was literally... I've never seen George laugh that hard in such a long time.

I was so tickled. I was laughing so hard. And we just had the best. I don't know, our kids, they're definitely at really hard ages right now, four and three and one. We are parenting. We had a.

Lot of kids in a.

Small age range. We are parenting our asses off all the time, and it's exhausting. This was just this moment of like, That is so fucking funny. Like, how did you even come up with that? Okay, God, kids are funny. Okay, the last thing before we go, Emily, what do you cook when you don't feel like cooking? And this is not a plug. It does not need to be one of my recipes. What do you cook when you really don't feel like cooking quesadillas. That's it. Such a good one. Do you put anything in them?

Yeah, cheese and then sometimes chicken. If there's like, leftover chicken around, we'll just shred it up and put it in.

That's it. Yep. You're the best. Thank you for being on my first episode ever. Oh, my gosh. I'm so.

Into you. Oh, my gosh. It's going to be a good podcast.

You're great. It's going to be good. Thank you. You're the best. That was episode one of So Into That with me, your host, Caroline Chambers. Thank you so much to Emily for joining me. You can find her on her Instagram @atproffemilyostar, and you can subscribe to her incredible newsletter at parentdata. Org. And thank you to all of you, listeners, for encouraging me to get into the podcast game. I'm really excited to be here. It's going to be a fun ride. To help make So Into That a success, please be sure to subscribe so that you'll be informed when new episodes drop. You can find me on Instagram @CarowChambers and my weekly recipe newsletter, What to Cook, when you don't feel like cooking, is at whattocook. Substack. Com. So Into That is produced and edited by Kevin Lehi and his team at Podcast Point Man. And a huge thanks to my entire team at Substack, Dan Stone, Hannah Ray, Helen Tobin, and many more for helping me get so into that up and running. See you next week.