The guy who was just here, Jeff Kober, is an actor and meditator. He worked with Lauren Dombrowski.

I love her. She died. She died. She saved my life.

He used to ride horses with her every week while she had cancer.

Don't even.

He said he met you several times. Then, are we rolling? This is how it's...

You start with death?

I usually lead off with death.

Okay, all right. I don't know. Open with that. Okay. Hey there.

It's me, Rain Wilson, and I want to dig into the human experience. I want to have conversations about a spiritual revolution. Let's get deep with our favorite thinkers, friends, and entertainers about life, meaning, and idiocy. Welcome to the Soul Boom podcast.

Let's go back a little bit. So when I was on that.

Do you always shout three inches from your microphone? You have done more podcasts than any human being on planet. But you're like, Here's the deal.

Here's the story. Okay. I'm going to be... You know what? I know Before I'm at it, I'm going to look at my environment. This is a spiritual podcast, so I'm going to do Namaste. I'll Namaste it.

Namaste, right here with you.

Come on. No, I'm kidding. I was using drugs.

You can talk to me.

I was using drugs when I was on Mad. Okay. Well, I relapsed, I had 13 years of sobriety, and I relapsed when I got on the show.Mad TV?Yeah.

For two years, I was completely loaded, and they fired me because of the drug use. Then-what drugs? Vicodin, mainly, and then alcohol, weed, stuff like that. But I was taking 30, 40 vicodins a day. It was really bad. Anyway, and then they fired me. I started going to A meetings that summer, and she saw me at a meeting, and she got me back on the show. Her husband, Marco, was sponsoring me. I knew her as a sober person. I love both. She saved my life, though. She and Marco at that time. Sometimes you go in life and you go through life and you just meet certain people, and they're just available to you. They're a godsend. Those were my people at that time. I've had many of those experiences.

That is so intense. You're on a big hit comedy show, and the showrunner, producer, dies? Isn't that? Yeah. Is that her?

No, she wasn't the showrunner, but she was one of the Ezex. Dick Blasucci was the showrunner, and she had cancer. Then while she was going through the chemo, she was around, obviously.

You're making comedy in the face of death. What was that like?

It was horrible. It was horrible. In fact, six months ago, I played Boston, and Lauren's sister came to the show. They're twins. Every time I see her, I see Lauren, and it's really hard. Lynn, Lynn Nabrowski. Wow. Yeah, and she came backstage, we hung out. But every time I look at her, I want to shed a tear because I miss Lauren so much. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. May I say something? Yeah.

No.

I've never seen you like this before. What does that mean? Just really calm.

Well, I approached you for a number of reasons. But you talk about recovery. You talk about mental health a lot. Like so many people in Hollywood, unlike so many people in Hollywood, you're not afraid to go there around the fact that there's a spiritual component to who you are and what you do and what's saved your life. I guess that's one thing that I've always struggled with is like, I'm really just an actor. I went to acting school and I did theater and I play characters, and I happened to play this one called Dwight that really took off. But I'm not a stand-up, and I don't just do comedic characters, but I've got into this comedy world. But then in talking more spiritual topics and philosophical topics and psychology and deep probing life's big questions and stuff like that. The comedy world was like, what the hell is this? The weirdo from the office talking about this stuff, and they just don't know how to… They literally just don't know how to process it. Then someone like me unabashedly talking about, I believe in God, and let's talk about God, and let's talk about death.

People get free to I've been freaking out. Sometimes it's a different landscape now in the last two, three years, especially with the advent of all the podcasts that you're on and all the great stuff that people are doing. Theovon and Bert will, Christ sure, talk about this stuff. And Neil Brennan, there are some people that are unafraid to dig in. But has that been weird for you is my question, being in the comedy world and then also talking about mental health and spiritual topics?

I've never been I'm afraid to tell anybody that I'm sober. I've never been afraid to talk about spiritual things. I started my own meeting here in LA to help comics, and I'm extremely vocal about it.

You have to be a comic. You have to be funny, at least, to get into the meeting?

No, there's just regular people there.

There's accountants, too?

Yeah, there's some accountants.

Okay. It'd be funny if there's a 12-step meeting and it's like, you have to tell a joke to get in, and someone's like... The person I started with was another comic, and she was like, We should I just make this all comics.

And I go, No, because then it doesn't open room for newcomers. New people is what keeps 12-step groups alive, I think. And it's like, Why no? Ultimately, it's just not really about me. It's about being a tool for God and helping other people. It's so cheesy to say it when I hear it, and I say it out loud, but it's the only time... Because I'm just so consumed with self a lot of times, and that's when I'm the most miserable. I'm so fucking miserable. When I read comments about myself online and I dwell in that space, it's like a hell. The only way to feel happy is either if I call my sponsor. Sometimes I'll listen to a little Ramdass, and it'll go to my therapy. But it's mainly going to meetings and just shaking a newcomer's hand and going, What can I do to help? But But I want to be cool. I want to be sexy. I want to be all those things. But it's like, none of that shit makes me happy. I'm 52 years old, and I've chased this thing, my dream for a very long time, and I've been consumed with the self for so long.

I just can't live like that anymore. So I just say it now. I don't care.

Yeah. And that's where I've gotten to, too. I I just say it, and I don't give a five. People think I'm weird or some weird born again, something or other, whatever. It's fine. Just think of me as you will. I don't care. I've always been a misfit. I've never fit in. If I don't fit in to the fucked up comedy world of Los Angeles, so be it. God speed.

But you do fit in. God bless you. You do fit in.

God bless us, everyone. What is it about being of service to someone else that works in conjunction with recovery and sobriety?

I think it's twofold. Number one, just by thinking about somebody else, you get out of yourself. That's the basic thing. Then it's also I do feel like I'm being used as a tool. I'm not a Christian, dude. I'm not really into Western religions, but I say God. But I feel like I'm being a service to humanity or God or whatnot. There have been times where I've driven to people's houses. My friend Brian jumped out of my car because we were going to an A meeting, and he jumped out on highland because he didn't want to. I was going 30 miles per hour. He did not want to go. But eventually, I got him to go, and he got it. He has 18 years of sorority now. It's like every once in a while, you do those things and you feel like you made a change in somebody's in life and did something better for the world. I don't know what comedy and my antics do for the world. I think I make people happy, I guess, by doing comedy and stuff. But it's still a self-serving thing, I think.

Well, doesn't it say in the AA Big Book, Selfishness, self-centeredness, that must be the root of our problem. So flexing the muscle of welcoming a newcomer or being of service, taking a service commitment at a meeting, helping any altruism.

But I also tell young comics, young comics that are sober and stuff who haven't made it yet. I always say to them, I go, Success and doing well on stage and all those things can feel spiritual, but It's just false. It's not real. I remember the first... I got sober when I was 17, and then when I was 23, I had six years of sobriety, and I was very active in the program. I spoke at this, not men's meeting, a mixed meeting, but it was Saturday night. It was this gigantic speaker meeting in La Hoya. I killed when I spoke. Then somebody came up to me and goes, You should write a dude in comedy. Maybe a month later, I did comedy.So.

You owe your comedy career, literally, to the 12-Step program.Yeah..

I owe it. But what happened was, once I got a laugh from an audience, I stopped going to meetings because it felt like something was filling that void. All of a sudden, I was like, what?So.

It was a false profit.It.

Was a false profit. I always warn young guys, go, I know it feels You know what I mean? Because it's dopamine hits.

But I know, I work with guys that are in the rock and roll industry, and it's the same thing. You can have a fake spiritual experience on stage performing because you're like, and you're getting all this adulation, and that adulation is filling your God-shaped hole. But then, If you can just make a slight adjustment to like, I do it for you. I'm going to rock your world and fill you with just love and joy and music and dancing and whatever, and you can shift, then it is a spiritual experience. Also, Bobby, I want to push back a little bit because, listen, what's happening?

Because I think you're right, so I'm just...

Yeah, I get it. Pull it all the way down. I'm back. What made you choose that particular color of nail? Why did you go with white? It's like a translucent white. It's oyster. Show the camera. Why? Why did you choose that? Why not? Because it get different.

It depends on my mood.

Okay. Why that one?

Specifically that mood. Look at my feet.

You need a website for feet, Bobby Lee. When you Google Bobby Lee, Bobby Lee feet is the second thing that comes up. But the thing I'm pushing back on is, from what I hear, you had a real fucked up childhood, and there was a lot of trauma, and you're abusing alcohol and other things, and then you stumble into a meeting, and then... Because you're talking about 17 going to 12 steps.

I'll tell you how it happened.

But hold on. I want to hear the story, but I'm just painting the bullet points is that then you transform your trauma into humor, and you bring joy to people's lives. You're doing sketch shows, you're on sitcoms, and you're making people laugh, and you're there really is almost no greater service than making people laugh, and you have made millions laugh over the years. And so isn't there God in that?

It depends. In terms of the rock star thing you said earlier, my goal was never that. When I perform, and maybe it's changed over the years, but I used to perform like it was a battle. It was me versus the The audience. You know what I mean? Sometimes the audience wins, but tonight I'm going to win. You know what I mean? It was never about like, I'm going to please you. It was more like, I'm going to beat you. You know what I mean? I would beat them by getting laughs. You know what I mean? I think the same thing goes when I got a movie.

But that's when you're starting out. But now you go somewhere. I know because I've seen footage, you go somewhere and they're like, You have them from the get-go. You don't have to win anyone over. There's no battle going on. It's They like me already. Yeah.

Yeah. But I guess you're right.

There's nothing wrong with that. You've been working 30 years, and they love you. You're right.

There is something about when you were younger, I remember when I first played the Laugh Factory, I had to follow Martin Lawrence and Chris Rock, and they were big stars. They're big now. I remember Jamie Masado going. I was like, What the... I just moved here. I can't follow these guys. It's like, You got to learn. The The challenge of that was always exciting to me. Then I remember doing okay and going, Yeah, you know what I mean?

An okay is a victory.

That's good. It's a victory. Especially when you're young and with those guys, it was fucking a victory. But I guess now I do it for them because I do love my fans, specifically, because I've had some tough times, and they've stuck by me, and I just really love every single one of them. I do it for them, but you're right. But I still need to be at be it service for outside of show business for me to feel happiness. Sometimes I'll still listen to when I go to sleep, the Four Agreements or any Deepak Chopra thing or Power of Now.

For me, Eckart Tolle, audiobook. I was going through one of the hardest times in my life. It was 2010. There was like, Shit was bad. I would just listen to Eckart Tolle like, You are not your thoughts. You can just breathe. You are in the present. His little weird hobbit, troll, Austrian accent, it was immediately transported me.

That was the first time I learned about the observer. That changed a lot. I That changed a lot.

Tell us about your experience of the observer. How does that work for you?

I never even thought about it until I listened to Power of Now. I tried to go, Is that real? Then just when I said, Is that real? Something was observing me say that. You know what I mean? I explored that. I still explore it today, but I really do believe that my thoughts aren't who I am. That thing that's watching it all happen and observing it is who I am. It's like my brain is going to do all kinds of fucking things, especially I'm a kid of deep trauma. It's like when I go into a restaurant, I'm going to tell you something crazy. I This is how poorly I used to treat myself because of my trauma. One time, I auditioned for this Amy Poehler. She was producing some show, and I prepared, and I walked into the audition, and I just I don't know what happened. There were so many people in the room, and I completely lost. I just got in my head. I couldn't remember the lines. Then I got nervous. I went to the car and I took a bottle of water like this big. I'm in one of those smart waters, completely filled.

I smashed I had to get my head over it until I was bleeding through my face. I would punish myself for just do something that my dad would do, maybe. After that experience, I really had to do a lot of Because that seeped into all my life. Even doing stand-up, if I had a bad show, I would punish myself. You know what I mean? I had to turn to Eckartoy on these things and just go and really just take a minute, Not react. Even if I'm in a conversation with somebody, just step back 5, 10 minutes and observe my thoughts and get grounded. I had to learn all that because if I didn't do that, I'd probably kill myself. You know what I mean? Not kill myself, but I would hurt myself, and I would treat myself poorly. I don't want to allow myself to do that anymore. I'm going to say something so cheesy. But maybe six months ago. I had a tough last year, really tough. So many bad things happened. After I got through all that, I was in the bathtub taking a bath, and I was rubbing my body with soap.

So cheesy. I said to myself, I'm so proud of you. I weeped in that bathtub because I'm really trying.

You parented yourself in a way that your parents didn't and couldn't. Yeah.

My mom, they did the best they could. They went through their own trauma. They were kids during the Korean War. They saw death. They didn't have any parenting. Then my parents come to Korea, and my dad beats my mom, beats the kids, me and my brother. My mom has a missing tooth because he punched it out, and you witness all that stuff. Later in life, you find out that it's just generational trauma. He did what he could. You know what I mean? His dad probably beat the shit out of him. Right. But I mean, you have kids?

I have one teenage son. Wow.

I don't have any kids, but if I do have them, I feel like I'll change. It'll be different.

Hey, everybody. It's me, Raine. I want to share something with you. I have gone through periods of my life where I have felt a little bit lost in the chaos, in the anxiety. I often am searching for some clarity, so I want to share something really special. It's an app called Waking Up. This is founded by the great Sam Harris. You've heard of Sam Harris. He's also a neuroscientist. Waking Up is an incredible arsenal, is the best way to describe it, of mindfulness, meditation, so many resources for mental health, all grounded in secular techniques, and it has approaches baked into it that actually work. There's so many different tools for my spiritual toolbox, and I really can't recommend it more highly. Soul Boom listeners can get their first month for free, plus you'll save $30 on the in-app price. If you go to wakingup. Com/soul boom, you can start your free month today. That's wakingup. Com/soul boom to get a free month plus $30 off. That's so much about what parenting is about is if you're conscious at all, my wife and I would have these conversations about, what do we give Walter that we didn't get.

One of the things that... I mean, there's a lot I didn't get growing up. I didn't get my tooth knocked out, but still had some issues. But one of the things I didn't get is I decided to share with Walter my struggles and my failures. So I would be like, Hey, Walter, sit down. Even he's 10 years old. I'm like, I just want you to know something. I auditioned for this thing. I thought I was going to get it. I was told I had it, and I didn't get it. I thought I was going to have six months of work, and now I don't have it. I'm really, really, really disappointed. I'm really sad about it. I just wanted to share that with you. I'd say, I'm struggling with this and writing my book. Hey, dad, how's your book going? It's going really, really hard. I sat there all day and looked at my computer screen all fucking day, and I'm really upset about it. So he sees me as a human being with real struggles and not like, Son, you got to pull yourself and you got to do blah, blah, blah, blah, and all of that stuff.

But hugs, unconditional love. There's so many ways. I'll send my son, he's a teenager, I'll just send him like, I love you, I love you. Heart, heart, heart, kissy, kissy. Huge emoji text all the time because I'm like, and I do love him, but it's also like, he needs to see a grown man sending heart and angel and kissy, kissy emojis all day long. It's You have to have a different idea of what a man is and what a man could be. You should 100% have kids before it's too late. You're almost in AARP territory.

Before it's AARP?

American Association of Retired Persons.

Although, I did a show with Tom Arnold the other day, and he had his two kids with him, and he had them at 56, and he's a single dad, and they seem to be- Did he have them with a surrogate or something? No, with a woman that That's no longer in their lives. I don't know the specifics of their... Their kids are whispering things into his ear, and they're giggling. He's having a great time. I said to Tom, I go, How old were you when you had them? He's like, I was I'm 56. He goes, I'm 65 now. It's the best decision ever made.

He's going to be 87 going to their soccer course. I know, but still, you know what I mean? Their graduation, he's going to be in the Walker. Is this your grandpa? No, it's great. It's all good. It's all good.

But look at this.

It's all good. Maybe he wasn't ready to have kids till then. That's right.

Steve Martin did it later. Theo Von's dad was in the '70s when he had… You know what I mean? Then my ex-girlfriend, Kalehla, who I have Tiger Belly with my podcast, her dad was 60 when she was born. They turned out to be great.

Theovon and Kaleila turned out to be great.

They've had issues. They've had issues, but I mean, they're still-I'm teasing. But they still may have made their mark on the world.

I just want to say I recognize that there's an entire segment of this audience that's watching that's going to watch this and be really judgy because they don't understand how comedians work. You know what I mean? Sometimes if you're in the world a little bit of spirituality and you take the piss out of someone, they're like, That was so mean. That was so insensitive. But in comedy, we fuck with each other, right?

Yeah, we do. Dude, you can say whatever you want about me. I've heard the worst. Also, I was a little nervous doing your podcast because I know that your audience is different. Than the audiences I'm used to. I'm always worried about how I'm going to be perceived because I just feel like I don't know much.

I think you know a lot.

No, I don't. Go ahead. I don't I want to say one last thing because I don't want to forget. You're saying that I used humor to get all these things. It's interesting because my therapist said, Wow, you used the one defense mechanism that you had to survive, and you turned that into a living. Amen. Amen. I thought to myself, Well, that's interesting. I think I did that, do that. I took the only thing I knew how to do. If that happened to me in Korea, I probably would never had a comedy career. They're doing stand-up now. But I started in the '90s.

You would have been a really funny assembly line worker. Like, Oh, Bobby.

Or just like, Carrying Rice being very funny. You know what I mean? But Arthur Brooks, best-selling author and happiness expert, he talks about emotional caffeine.

The way that caffeine works is you have this chemical that makes you tired, and caffeine plugs into the brain so that that chemical can't go in. It's blocking tiredness rather than giving you a stimulant necessarily.

Wow, I never thought. I never knew that.

He said there's emotional caffeine. He said for sadness, it's comedy. If you're telling a joke, making someone laugh, laughing, being funny, you literally can't let in. It works as a blocker. It can't let in the sadness and the tragedy. It literally can't. Try and do it. Try and be telling a joke and at the exact same time, or try to be laughing and at the exact same time, just feeling hopeless dark despair. No, It can be there, and it can come and go and go back and forth. So he's very fascinated by stand-ups and by comedians because this was a coping mechanism that literally kept them alive.

Yeah, it's interesting because last night I did a show, and I was in the worst of moods. I went up at this comedy store, and it was just a great set. I was just out of… You know what I mean? I didn't think about what… I don't even remember what was depressing me, really, to be honest with you. It really seemed to like… It always works. I think you're right. Every time I perform, I'm just in a state of not bliss, but it's more of content. You know what I mean? It's not like I'm super happy either. It's just like I'm not miserable. You know what I mean? I feel comfortable in my skin, almost.Yeah.Yeah..

You talked about your dad dying You've died four years ago, and you talked about how last year, you really had some huge tests and setbacks and difficulties. Of course, we got the whole COVID thing in the middle of all this. How are things different now in this year? How What are you leaning on? How are you processing this? How are you moving forward without that derailing you?

When those things were happening, and they happened in sequence, it was almost as though they were happening at the same time, almost. For me, I said to myself, Wow, I'm miserable, and I'm just crying every day, and this is fucking terrible. I have two options. That's it. Use again, which is not going to work, or really dive in. I dove in. I've been doing things that I normally wouldn't do because I'm willing… There's no other option for me. The third option is to stay miserable. That's right. There's three options. To stay in it or do these other two things. I decided to do this. There's a 12-step saying, To gain self-esteem, do estimable acts.

So you did an estimable act. Yeah.

This year is probably one of the best years of my life. That's awesome. During the Super Bowl, Tom, Sigur R. And Bertkreisner invited me to do their show, and Shane Gillis was on It was like this... It's not the size of the group, but it was like, there's a lot of people, like 14,000 people in this theater in the round. It was the first time in a very long time where I was on stage I went, You know what? You deserve this. You know what I mean? You work so hard. You've taken so many risks, and you're doing the right things in life. You know what I mean? It was a moment of sheer joy. Not that I don't even think I did that well. I just remember being up there and looking at the crowd and going, You know what, dude? This is not you could to say this. I worked hard for this, and this is pure joy. It was incredible. I mean, that's life. It's not going to be perfect. There's going to be some fucked up shit that happens. You know what I mean? It's my job to figure out how I want to live in those events.

I'm 52, and I've decided to live it with joy. Don't get me wrong, I I still have to sometimes... I'll read something online. I still have to sometimes call my therapist or call my sponsor and go, This is what I'm feeling. I'm not perfect. I still sometimes slip into negative thinking, and I get affected by it. But for the most part, I can't believe I survived last year and I stayed sober. What an unbelievable thing.That's.

Beautiful.yeah..

It's so funny when I say this right now, I'm imagining people going, Fuck this guy. This guy's a piece of shit. In my mind, for some reason, I think that.

I don't think that's going to happen on the Soul Boom Network.

We'll see. We'll see. Here's another interesting thing is, what I've learned to do is separating the online world and real life in the sense that-You have a big online presence. I do I have an online presence, but there's a lot of negativity online. If I live online, my emotions and my mood is affected by that. Yeah, sure.

100%, get that.

What I realized in the last couple of years is that they're just completely two different things, real life and this. What I've been doing now is I just don't read anything. I don't go on there. I post, I'll do a caption or whatever, but it just has nothing to do with who I am and what reality is.

When the office was starting, that was just at the beginning of the online world. We're 2005, 2006, and it's starting to come on the air. That was during the times of message boards. Oh, right. I remember. I remember like, IMDV, message boards, and TV without pity, and it was people putting their comp. It wasn't Twitter, which everyone would do it now on Twitter. It was message boards for the show and what you think and different themes. I would obsessively, because I cared so deeply and care so deeply about what people think of me, I would read these message boards, and it would hurt me. The guy who plays Dwight looks like a pig, and I'd be like, Oh. He's so not funny. The English guy was way better. Or this show is... It really was like everything was a cut. It was death by a thousand cuts. It's new, too.

So we don't know how... I mean, to adapt, it's a new world. It's never been seen in the world, in the history of the world. And we're now the guinea pigs or the first people that have to live in this new world. So of course, you're going to react that way.

Now, you'd probably go- Because you're 100% right. Three to four years earlier than that, there weren't those message boards.

Mine was Planet Mad TV. There was a Canadian website called Planet Mad TV, and they had a whole message board, and it was nine pages of how I'm not funny, how I'm ruining the show. I remember just sitting there reading it at work because I didn't even have a computer, so I would be at Fox.

What year was this, maybe?

2000. Yeah, 2000. It was right before 9/11, the year before. I just remember going, I'm thinking I'm going to kill myself. Just reading that shit? His head's too big for his body. Asians aren't funny. That was a whole thing. You know what I mean? I just remember taking it so personally. Then I just, I think Frank Caliendo said, Stop reading that. I was like, Oh, maybe... Because I had been there like six hours one day, just reading it.Oh, man. It's fucking terrible.

But I'm better at it now. I can literally read dozens of comments of like, he's an idiot, an asshole. He'll never work again. He's a freak. He's so weird looking. Are you? Are you?

His head is-You're fucking His head is too big for his body.

He's a fucking legend. My head is also too big for my body.

It's disturbingly big. It is very big.

It is.

You're handsome. I just want to say that to me, you are a fucking icon, man. You kill that show.

You're so kind. I'm being real.

Yeah, thanks. I'm not going to drive fucking 2 hours for nobody.

But you wanted to bury your soul, too, a little bit. That's true. You wanted to do a little bit, something a little different.

I like this a lot.

You're not just talking about video games and pizza and quiefs, farts. Yeah, exactly.

Can I ask you a spiritual question?

Okay.

Do you believe in... What? May I? Okay. Do you believe in coincidences or do you believe that things happen for a reason?

I think both. I do think that a lot of things really happen for a reason in some really profound ways. But I also think that there are just coincidences. I do, too. Can the world contain both of those things?I think they can.

Yeah. I don't generally hang out with people that just completely are like, there are no fucking... Everything's a coincidence. You know what I mean? I need dreamers out there. I just surround myself with people like that because I do believe there have just been so many times where I was like, Oh, that just saved my life. You know what I mean? I needed to hear that right then, or I needed to see that person. I wanted to give you a brief spiritual non-coincidence story. Love it. Here we go. That second year at Matt TV, I got fired, so I go to rehab. Now, mind you, years before, I had done sobriety in San Diego when I was a kid. I had sponsors and a whole list of people that I knew. But once I did stand up, I lost all those numbers. Okay. Now, I'm in LA. My manager drives me to San Diego to go to detox at a place. It wasn't a recovery place. It was a wheat grass farm. It was for people to lose weight. I don't know why she put me in. Because she checked in, too.

She wanted to lose 10 pounds, and she wanted you to get sober.

I remember because I was on bike in it, so I was in the bathtub just shaking for days. No medical help or anything.Oh, damn.I I could have died. Then I went to my manager, Abby, and I go, I need to go to a recovery place that has... She's like, Well, you're fine, sweetie. I mean, you're not doing Viking in now, are you? I go, But I need to go to a meeting. She's like, You're fine. One night, I knew that two miles down this hill, there was an In-N-Out. I go, Give me some money so I can go to the In-N-Out. I escaped this place, ran down this hill. There was a 24-hour Vons next to the In-N-Out. I You know what? I'm going to get an apple instead. I went in and got an apple. I was in the vegetable aisle. I got a tap on my shoulder, and I turned around, and I recognized this guy. It was a guy named Will. I go, Whoa, dude. I I can know you. He goes, Yeah, when you were a kid, I remember I briefly sponsored you when you were at the McDonald's, et cetera.

I go, When you were 17. I go, Oh, yeah. He goes, What are you doing? I told He's telling the whole story why I was there. He goes, It's so weird. He goes, I was speaking in a meeting in Arizona. I was driving, and something told me to pull over to this Vons. This guy, Will, gave me all the numbers of the AP people I once knew. That's amazing. All these people, when I was at that institute, kept picking me up and driving me to meetings. I always feel like that was a cosmic thing. That's beautiful.

There's only one lesson to be learned from this. Don't go to In-N-Out burger. Get yourself an apple. Good things will happen.

Can I ask you another question? What happened to you? You said you had some a while back. What brought you to the spiritual journey?

One of the things that you said earlier really resonated with me. The author Julia Cameron of The Artist's Way. You know The Artist's Way? Yeah. Amazing. Morning Pages. Amazing book. Morning Pages. It's essentially like a 12-step program for creativity, and you can apply it in your daily life. It's really amazing. But she said, I come to spirituality not out of virtue, but out of necessity. I've talked about this story before, but like you, I think to a less extreme degree, but I struggled with alcohol and drugs, and I had a lot of anxiety. I had crippling anxiety attacks, shaking, panic attacks, sweating for years in New York City.

Is this Host office or before?

No, no, pre. Pre-office. This is me at 23, 24, just out of NYU, trying to make a career in the theater and just living in this abandoned beer brewery out in Brooklyn, essentially being a squatter and just working in this bar till 4:00 AM and just really lost. Back then, therapy was not common. Only rich people went to therapy. There weren't podcasts, and there weren't apps, and meditation, and self-help books weren't ubiquitous. I turned to the only thing I knew to turn to, which was spirituality. I started looking and investigating spiritual journeys and ideas, and conversations, and Hinduism, and the Upanishads, and Buddhism, and the Baha'i faith, which was the religion of my childhood, and started started trying to pray, trying to figure out what that would look like, seeing if I actually could believe in God. I didn't go into any 12-step program or anything. I just did a deep dive into it, and that's what started my interest in it. But it really came, like you said, it saved my fucking life. These ideas saved my life. They anchored me in reality. It brought me a lot of peace and truth and vision.

And so I've really been my mission to, A, play weird characters on television shows, and B, to spread the gospel, not of any particular religion necessarily, but of, Hey, there are spiritual tools that can help us. People in recovery get it. People with mental health issues get it. How has this spiritual journey of yours intersected with your mental health journey? I just want to give a big thank you and a gigantic shout out to one of our sponsors, the Fetzer Institute. In an era where mental health is a growing concern, Fetzer's insights into the role of spirituality and building resilience isn't just timely, it's essential. They offer hope for what so many of us are seeking. Thank you for your support, Fetzer. Visit them at fetzer. Org.

Well, I've had to do separate. Sometimes my mental health is a completely different thing where I do trauma therapy EMDR.

But that's all spiritual. I don't think it's like you have to have God and prayer.

Yeah, but I still needed to go to a different place, like an avenue, to get that. When my dad died, and I had no idea I'm not here for that. I'm not here for that. I'm here for the media about trauma, but I thought that... Because my dad chilled out once I got older, he was fine. He became my dad in my 20s and 30s. He wasn't violent. I think he never apologized, but I think there was a sense of guilt maybe with him. But I remember when my dad died, the day he died, I couldn't eat or sleep for three months. I was in a manic episode. I didn't know what the fuck was going on, and nothing could help me. I remember walking down the street, and there's an actress, a friend of mine that saw me, and she's like, You look like shit. I go, I think I'm going to do something bad. I can't sleep. I haven't slept in two months. I didn't dream for two months. She goes, You got to see my therapist. I went to see my therapist, Beverly, and I'm still with her. I see her actually after this.

I go to Encina to go see her. She goes, What's going on? I told her my dad died. She goes, Tell me about your childhood. I went into the violence and the trauma. It It was just scary. After that session, that night, I could eat and I could sleep. In my mind, I'm like, Oh, there's a connection between what happened as a child and what's going on with me physically and mentally right now. I decided to really pursue that. Then I went to a place in Arizona for a week, and I did EMDR there for the first time. I don't really feel it in my body as much, and it really is helping. I guess you're right, that is a spiritual thing, but I'm not getting that through. I wish the 12 steps would deal with that type of thing, like trauma and whatnot. But I went somewhere else. But that, again, running into that actress, to me, was a godsend because I don't know what I would have done if I didn't meet Beverly.

Will in the grocery store and the actress who introduced you to Beverly.

Yeah. Those are like two-They're angels.

Angels, yeah. They really are on your path.

That's why I want to be sober, and that's why I want to be present and open, because I want to be used as an angel and help somebody else. I think I've done that in several cases.

Your friend who you stopped from jumping out of the car on Highland now has 18 years.

Although that guy did write a movie. My podcast partner, Andrew Santino, put him in the movie, and I'm not in the movie, and I saved this fucking guy's life, man. No, I'm not even kidding, dude. That's fucking bullshit. It's a huge movie, too. It's with big actors. I'm like, Dude, did Andrew save your life, fuckface? I'm sorry.

But isn't that this perfect human- It is perfect.

That's the human condition right there. Cheers, Brian. I mean, come on. It's crazy.

But that's the human condition. To me, recovery isn't just, Jesus Christ, how much more can you fit in your pockets?

Yeah, a lot. Just move on, please. Thanks.

It would be funny if you had a thing of Vicodin and a flask of vodka and some joints.

Well, can I just mention another thing? I just don't ever want you to do this again. I was poohing downstairs and you were listening, and please don't do that again.

Thanks for a boundary with me. I wanted to do that with you.

I was building a resentment.

You were building more than a resentment. You were building a... All I know is that I had used the restroom, I went downstairs, you were in the bathroom, and I hear a YouTube video blaring from the bathroom. So I thought it would be very funny.

I was trying to hide the noise. Thank you.

You were on the toilet watching Saturday Live clips, and you know it.

To hide the noise. I didn't know the fucking rain Wilson was listening in. Let's just move on from it. But I'm just saying, Don't fucking do that again.

I got it. I don't know that I can respect that boundary of yours.

All right, fine. Do what you do.

I might need to do it again.

Do what you do.

You know, recovery and sobriety isn't just about stopping whatever your drug of choice is. And it doesn't have to be just be alcohol and drugs. It can be porn, it can be shopping, it can be food, it can be workaholism, codependence, you name it. But it's not just ceasing a behavior, it's replacing that behavior with positive behavior. But what's next on your journey for Bobby Lee in talking about emotional sobriety and ever increasing, bringing ever-increasing consciousness, light, and healing to all the choices that we make along our path?

There are secondary addictions that I'm dealing with. One of them is video games, and it doesn't It doesn't sound like much, but when you're doing it nine hours, in nine hours a day, hundreds and hundreds of hours, and you sit there and you know what I'm doing. I'm just not feeling things. You're numbing out, you're I'm escaping and I'm numbing out. I do it with that. I do have a little bit of pornography addiction. You know what I mean? That I do, that it feels... I mean, The difference between drugs and alcohol and porn and video games, I don't lose jobs because of those. I tend to show up the things, you know what I mean? But it's doing the other stuff, which is not getting in touch with what's going on with my feelings. I also, and I want to say something that I'm going to say right now, and I've never said this out loud before. I feel like pornography has affected every single one of my relationships I've ever had, if I look back. But it has done a lot of harm. That's a thing that I'm struggling with now. I'm not perfect.

I'm well aware that these are things are happening when I'm doing them. I'm not in denial about it. These are things that I want to address, and I'm scared to because when you're doing it, it seems so innocent and not harmful. It does get in a way of spiritual growth and emotional growth and all those other things that I want to do. I want to be able to feel things. Last year, I went through a gigantic breakup. I had a war with some other podcasts, and it got really ugly. They tried to cancel me a month there. There's a lot of things that went on that I was just like, I'm not going to use drugs or alcohol, but I'm going to escape by just playing games and masturbating. You know what I mean? It's I'm well aware I'm doing that, but I'm now addressing those things.

Thank you.

It just seems so fucking… You know what I mean? I generally don't do this. We talked about, I do quefs and doing accents and stuff like that. To talk about real things like that. I hear myself talking, I go, Oh, my God, you're being really very vulnerable.

No, but here's the deal, because we're talking about how you can be an angel and how you can help people. But there might be people struggling with this stuff that are listening right now going, Oh, my God, he's absolutely speaking my language. I needed to hear this in order to make a change. Other people are suffering. I know when I talk about mental health stuff with me, people are so grateful because, Oh, you don't have an Instagram life. You don't have this perfectly curated life. You struggle and you're a fuck up and you've had problems before and you've overcome them. The important thing there Because this was so tough about video games and like, porn. And thank you. Thank you. Seriously, thank you for sharing and making yourself vulnerable in that way around that stuff. As you know, in step one, it's like, I admitted that I was powerless over blank, fill in the blank, and my life had become unmanageable. And that's the tough thing about so much going on today is it doesn't necessarily make your life unmanageable. You can play nine hours of video games, and you can watch two hours of porn, and you can do online shopping for an hour, and you can go gamble on sports games for hours and lose a couple of hundred bucks, and you can be scrolling on your phone for hours.

And we can live in this hyper-addicted, poly-addicted state, and we can function. We can hold down jobs, and we don't get fired, but it's not bringing us closer to God.

Because when I was in high school, I had a sponsor named Dan, and I still talk to him. He's this old Korean man. He has white hair. He has his tattoos to his wrist. He looks like a mortal combat character. When I got sober in my junior year in high school, he goes, Hey, you're going to go to a monastery with us for three days. We lived at this monastery. I was a kid, and I bumped with lawyers and people that were a part of the group that we were in. I just remember it being probably one of the happiest times of my life because I was just like, Wow, this is unbelievable. I'm being treated like an adult, but we're not talking, we're meditating, and I'm learning about these things. At such a young age, at 17, it was an incredible thing. I just look back at that going, I wish there was a place where I could just-Why don't we do that?

Let's do it. You and me, we'll get Chow, we'll get some other people, we'll go do a phone-free restorative event. Are you being real? Yeah, I'm being real.I.

Would love to fucking Can we do that? Yeah, I really want to do that.

And Chow has more money than both of us put together. He can pay for it.

He has to pay for it.

He has to pay for it. Yeah. David, if you're watching.

Yeah, I mean, if we could set that up. I'm being real. Let's fucking do that. Can I swear on this? I mean, I swore a couple of times.

Yeah, we can swear. I'll do that with you. Let's do it.That would be so fun.I.

Would love it.For how long a week? Yeah, let's do a week.Five days. But let's do...

Four should be good. You know what? If we do three days, that's going to be plenty. Two days is going to give us everything we need. No, phone free. We need to do meditation. We need to be in nature, and there should be really good food. Listen, you don't need a lot of money to be curious about life and challenge yourself and have new experiences.

I'm willing to do whatever it takes. Even if it doesn't work, I'm willing to do it to get to the bottom of it to be released from it and to be free from it.

From the trauma.

From the trauma, yeah. Anything that's going to make me happier, you know what I mean? I'm willing to do it. I'm willing to try. Even this little thing, which is never going to happen, me, you, and David show in this fucking day. It's never going to fucking happen. You know what's not going to happen. In the Utah desert? Yeah, it's never going to fucking in the cave. That's never going to fucking happen. But I would be willing. If Dave called me and goes, We're doing it, I I'm going to do it. I'm willing to do it. Give it a try. I would just love to just not be online and looking at things. I just need a break, man.

Don't you feel that? Yeah, I totally do.

Yeah, I just want a break from it all. Yeah, I do. I'm tired. Also, it's just all… I don't know what's going to happen, man. Because kids today, now, it's a completely different world that we live in, and it's like, I don't know. I don't know if there's room for spirituality when it comes to young people because they're raised with this online… You know what I mean? It's going to get worse and worse, technology and whatnot. I hope that…

I talk about this being in my book, Soul Boom, about this is one of the biggest experiments in human history. It's like, let's drop a mini computer into everyone's pocket. On it is unlimited porn, unlimited video games, unlimited Amazon shopping, unlimited Netflix, just with a touch of a button, any distraction you can possibly want, just on this thing, the size of a credit card. Let's drop it into hundreds of millions of people's pockets and see what happens. Without any consultation or growth or anything like that is incredibly challenging. Then you drop onto this climate change.

It gets tough.

It gets insane. But let's turn the corner here. I'm not going to sleep. Howhow do we-We're fucked, man. I've really depressed you. What hope do we provide young people? What has helped you? I can share what's helped me.

To help young people?

Yeah, to help people that are struggling with all that we're talking about. There's a lot of darkness in the world.

The only thing I can do is... I don't know what it is, and I don't want to make this racial, but I'm going to. Good. Yeah. I think for some reason or another, and I never asked for this role, but I've become like Yoda in the Comedy Club scene. You know what I mean? Where young comics come up to me with problems. You know what I mean? I don't know why that is.

You know what my first thought? What? Literally my first thought that went into my head when you said that, when you shared that, it's like, That would be a great show. How can I monetize that? But it was like, Bobby as Yoda and young comics come to you with like...

Yeah, just with all kinds of things. Why would you even think that I even knew about that?

Because you share, you bear your soul online. So in that way-They trust you.

I guess. But in That way, I guess I can help young people. You know what I mean?

But what do you say to them? What do you say to them?

Give me a scenario.

Hey, Bobby, I had a lot of trauma, too. I'm really depressed. Sometimes I feel like killing myself, and I can't just sustain a relationship. I just hook up with girls at comedy clubs, and I feel like a piece of shit all the time. What do I do?

It's complicated, that one, but let me try to address it. Because there's a lot of things. If you're hooking up a lot, maybe you have a sexual addiction, too. Is that what the situation is? I don't know. I'm talking to you, then you're the one with the problem.

I'm playing a fictitious stand-up comment.

I know, but stay in the role.

My name is Carl McArthur. No, you already did that.

I already know you, Carl. That's why you came up to me. Why you give me your name again? I don't know.

I don't know what a sex addiction is. Maybe I do. I don't know.

Okay, now I'm going to get out the scene. But what I want to say- End scene. End scene. What I would ask about, I wouldn't need specifics on what's going on. Number one, it's like, is there a sexual thing involved? Do you have a sexual addiction of some sort? Number two, I want to know the frequency of your drug usage. I also want to know the history of your mental health in terms of your depression and stuff. I would ask about traumatic events. Did that happen as a child? With all that information, then I would come up with maybe my best guess, solution. But it's like, I don't know. When it comes to drug addiction and alcoholism, the only thing I would take in them to a meeting. Because for me, it's like you get a lot from 12 Steps. You get spirituality, you get a group, which is huge. Back when Bill and Bob started AA, essentially, they didn't have the book then, but they realized that when they hung out with each other, they talked about their experience, strength, and hope, that they were able to get some numbers under their belt during the day.

It's like, you got to be around people.

Well, speaking of that, I sent an article this morning to my producer, Kartik, in The Atlantic. It was talking about how Americans aren't assembling anymore. Alex de Tocqueville, the famous essayist, came to the United States 150 years ago, and he was like, Americans are gathering. It's a marvel. They'll have farm communities, and the Moose Lodge, and the churches, and the Veterans Association, and the Neighborhood Watch and Cleanup Association. Americans just love to gather. We're not assembling anymore. We're not gathering anymore. We're so isolated because of our devices and our machines. Culturally, they've done these studies that more and more isolation. Loneliness is an epidemic. Suicide is an epidemic. But one of the great things about comedy clubs, it's people in a fucking room together laughing. It's a good place to start. We need more comedy clubs.

Well, I go not to do comedy, too. It's like, that's where I see Neil, all my friends and stuff. I go to social- Neil Brennan? Yeah, Neil Brennan.

He was on the show. He did a lot better than you did.

He's smarter. He didn't go to college.

He's smarter. He's very smart.

That was pretty mean, dude.

Anyway, that's That's what we do. See, that's what we do, folks.

That's fun. That's fun.

In case any of you new age- I love it. Woo- woo weirdos are watching the show. Cut that.

But that's where I go. I go to see- Yeah, so let's go back to the Comedy Club.

You go there to see your friends.

Yeah, it's like, I know Whitney. It's just to connect. Whitney is pregnant, so I'm going to go and see them, touch the belly, you know what I mean? I don't know what they do.

I wrote Whitney to see if she'd come on my show. She didn't text me back.

I'm going to get her on the show. Can you text her and let her know?Whatever you want.That's cool.

That's culture.Who.

Do you want? I got it. Michelle Obama. I can't get her. I can get Whitney, though.

He winked. But seriously, we're communities breaking down.

I never thought I'm not about that, but I think you're right.

Because we've also jettisoned churches for a very good reason. America has really turned its back on organized, quote, unquote organized religion. We're spiritual but not religious, young people.

But I have to say, can I say something real quick? Yeah. I met this girl on Hinge dating app. She goes, I go to church.

There should be a dating app called Unhinged.

For Karens or people that are about this.

For people like you.

Unhinged. Because I was trying to get laid, I was like, I'm going to church with you. It was in Venice. I went. I swear to God, dude. I was like, This is amazing. That's awesome. Because it wasn't about...

Yeah, it wasn't about being saved in hell and born again. It was about people like... Singing together.

Yeah, and also, turn to your neighbor, shake their hands. I love when they do that. I go, Hello, my name is Bob. Whatever. Whatever you say, whatever your name is, fill in the blank. But I'm just saying I like, well, you turn around. You know what I mean? It's great. You know what I mean? For the first time, I understood why they go. Because I The religion itself doesn't make any sense. You know what I mean? It makes a little sense.

If you break it down, Jesus was really wise and awesome and had a lot of great things to teach us.

I think I'm more talking about the social issue judgments that they have. Yeah, the dogmaus.

The gay marriage and all that stuff.

It just drives me crazy. But I understood for the first time when, Oh, this is me going to an A meeting, or this is me going to the comedy store. It's communal. It's seeing your friends, and it's positive as well. You know what I mean? It's like they're talking about positive things. You know what I mean? I understand why people go now. I I didn't get late anyway. I didn't get late. It's hard. Don't date a Christian because you have to join it, I think. Number one, they don't have sex before marriage, usually. I was like, I realized At church, I looked at her, she'd be beautiful, and I go, I don't think this is going to happen because I don't have to do… This is going to take three years to get in. You got to have a long game. It's a long game. I don't have the time. I've been listening-Are we friends after this or Fuck, yeah.

We're better friends.

Yeah, but we didn't really know each other. But let's be real. I feel like there was some connection here, man.I.

Would like to be friends with you.Okay. I would like to be friends with you.

Yeah, we did it.

You get wary about being touched. You don't like being touched in a- No, I do.

But not on, come on. The camera's wrong. Fuck, man. I love you too, man. Good job on all. Really good stuff. Good stuff, right? What were you saying?

Can you tell the world We know we do know each other? Tell them that very first story.There's two. There's two. Okay, tell them the very first story.

The very first one, I was a kid, not kid, but I just moved to LA. I don't know how this happened, but I was asked to just be a background of of a pilot that they were doing live for the Fox executives.

2000, 2001, maybe.

Yeah, maybe it's because I was on Mad. I had just gone on Mad. That's how I got it. But I remember being there, and I didn't want to do it because there was no money. Also, I had no lines.

You had no lines?

I don't think I had lines. I just sat there. But I have to say, I'm glad I did it because I saw you. That's when I saw you for the first time. It was called the Nubosina. You did that out of college?

It's a clown. Yeah. Fyi, to fill you all in, the Nubosina was what brought me to Los Angeles. It was a clown sketch, comedy, surreal show that we did at NYU, and then we did it off off Broadway, and then off Broadway. We brought to LA to chasing the nirvana of a TV deal. We got a deal at Fox. It was a terrible deal. They passed on shooting our pilot, but they were like, We're going to do a live pilot presentation. The executives will come and see how great you guys are live and doing this show, and we'll think of something to do with you.

Well, that was the first time I even heard of doing a lot. I've seen many iterations of it since then, but that was the first time I was like, Live? Pilot what? But I remember watching it and being… Because I was there during rehearsals and stuff, and then the show, and I was like, This is so fucking funny. These guys are so amazing. I remember thinking, I want to be on the show, but you did something very nice. I didn't even know you. You wrote me a thank you letter. I did that? Yeah. I remember that because I had it in my... I lost it. But I had it in this chest.

Probably when you were doing all that Vicodin. Maybe.

But I remember you being on The Office, the first season, I remember discovering the going, Oh, fuck, Rain wrote me this. Oh, nice. It was super silly. It was simple. You were just basically like, Thank you so much for doing the show. I really appreciate it. It was only your name. I don't even know the other guy's names, but they didn't sign it. Fuck them. Yeah, fuck them. But you were very nice. The second time I ran into you, you don't remember where?

Was at its Sutton place in Vancouver? Yeah.

We were in the business center.

Oh, really? I don't remember that part.

You were sitting in the business center and you said hi to me, and I said, Hi. We had a brief exchange, and that was it.

No.

Yeah.

No, we had more interaction than that because I remember walking down the street with you outside of the Sutton place, hotel.

No. Yeah.

Then we went to the business center. For insiders who don't know, they call it the Slutton place because it's where all the actors stay.

I do love that place when I go there. A lot of memories.

They have a whole wing of it that has kitchens, which is really nice because then you can cook your food and it's right centrally located. I love Vancouver.

I love shooting in Vancouver. It's so fun.It.

Is so fun.So fun. But I remember walking down the street with you and it was raining and we were talking about mad TV and what you're doing and stand up and stuff. We had more conversations than that.

It was a lovely time then.Yeah.So.

Memorable.so.

Memorable and nice.

Bobby Lee. Yeah.

We did it.

We did it.

Was it good or bad?

It was amazing. It was really, really great.

But anyway, dude, it was a pleasure, dude. I haven't had a… This I'm usually very wacky, and I talk about weird shit, you know what I mean? But this was really therapeutic, and I'm so glad it came. Fuck off.

I'm really glad you came. I'm really sorry that I recorded you watching videos while pooping.

Yeah, don't do that again.

I'm not really sorry.

Anyway, thank you.

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