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When we started out in this election, especially with the Democrats beginning the process to choose who their nomination would be, it would be safe to say that we were expecting some serious drama with a crowded field of candidates. Many thought that the close would be out this week during the Democratic National Convention.


It didn't exactly work out that way.


No, there will be virtual claws. I guess everything's virtual. No. And actually there'll be no clothes at all.


In the Democrats case, they're all united behind Joe Biden and Kamala Harris for the nomination. But we won't be seeing balloons falling from the ceiling. We won't be seeing big cheering crowds. It will all be done over Zoom and it will all be virtual.


Oh, I'm so sick. Assume at this stage, Brian, and you're not going to get anyone talking to a chair over Zuma yet.


What do you want me to tell Romney like Clint Eastwood? I can't tell him to do that. Can't do that to himself. Yes.


Posing problems for us all. My biggest thing is, am I on camera or not? If it's a webinar, can they see me? Can they hear me? All of these things that we never had to deal with before has become the new reality.


And there's going to be a lot of that this week with virtual events and speeches every night for the Democratic convention.


From NPR News, this is States of Mind.


This American carnage fired back with rubber bullets, stops right here and stops right now.


I do not believe we're the dark, angry nation that Donald Trump sees in his tweets in the middle of the night.


Your U.S. Election 2020 podcast with Brian O'Donovan in Washington and Jackie Fox in Dublin.


Today, I owe a debt to all of those who came before me and that in no other country on earth is my story even possible.


What are you trying to strongarm stuff from men this rush, and then you can step off the stage and do mic drops and things like that. I mean, there is no substitute for that.


And that we will miss Michigan and then we're going to Washington, D.C. to take back the White House. Conventions in Ireland, we don't have them like they do in America. It's easy to marvel at the glitz and the glamour, the confetti, the streamers, and hundreds, if not thousands of balloons and superstar singers taking to the stage like Katy Perry or Alicia Keys.


It's time to stand together and be unified. We have to show the world that bigotry and fear never wins behind the spark, although what is actually going on? What is it all about? In short, it's the big conference where an American political party selects their nominee for president of the United States. And there's a bit of a faff. Who's.


See, by the dawn's early light, what so proudly.


And that's why, yeah, it's interesting, you said we don't have them in Ireland, what's the closest thing we have an audition, I suppose? Yeah, you don't have balloons falling from the ceiling, but you have loads of politicians crowded behind. One TV news reporter is he or she knows her life into the nine o'clock news? I think. Is that the equivalent of the convention in Ireland? It's a feat of all or defeat ISIL or Daesh.


It seems so dull in comparison, but to take a step back here, because behind all of that fanfare, it's really been decades since there was actually proper drama at a convention to explain a candidate to become a nominee of a party they need.


We talked about it before Briain 1991 delegates. Guess that number 191 and you've bagged the nomination. We've a good, thorough explainer on delegates in our first episode of States of Mind. No show like a Joe show, if you want to refresh your memory there. But for now, a simple way of explaining it is that delegates are awarded to a candidate based on the percentage of the vote they receive in a particular area like a constituency through primaries and caucuses.


There are over 4000 delegates up for grabs at these conventions. The delegates, a person officially pledged their vote to a candidate who chairs the whole of the Garden State.


We proudly cast. For the great Senator Obama, 45. The first female in history will be made 19 votes for the. But it wasn't always like this. No, years ago, delegates were controlled by party bosses and pretty much told how they should vote. People like governors, senators, mayors.


So then, as you can imagine, candidates didn't really see the point of trolling around the country trying to get votes. They saw it as a bit of a waste of time. That system changed, however, and then it did become up to the voters to pick their nominee through primaries, through caucuses. And that's because the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago.


Was a bit of a disaster from Chicago, Illinois. NBC News reports the Democratic National Convention. The violence of the war which divided the country was echoed by violence in the streets which divided the country further, anti-war delegates were harassed on the floor. What are you trying to strongarm stuff? This is John Chancellor on the floor. I'm looking down at Edwin Newman in the middle of a huge bunch of security people, a total disaster. Police are now in the aisles here with billy clubs blaring.


People out there not used.


So we had Vice President Hubert Humphrey. He campaigned only for delegates while his opponent, Senator Eugene McCarthy and Robert Kennedy, who was assassinated before the convention, sought the support of primary voters. Humphrey was seen as the establishment candidate and cruised to the nomination. But antiwar activists gathered in the streets to protest and were beaten in front of reporters. And the violent images revealed a deeply divided party. As you can imagine, it was very messy.


The rules were then changed so that when candidates won primaries, they were awarded a certain number of delegates based on the percentage of the vote they received in a particular area, like we talked about, then you would go to the convention and cast a vote.


Yeah, but it was still drama, though. Even after those rules changed back in 1980, President Jimmy Carter went into the convention, having won the majority of delegates over Senator Ted Kennedy, who had challenged him. But Senator Kennedy wouldn't accept the results. He wouldn't accept the defeat. At the convention, he and his operatives moved to persuade delegates to leave Mr. Carter, arguing that the delegates should be free to switch allegiances. He eventually abandoned that effort, but it was all a bit wild.


Kennedy failed to take away Carter's delegates, but he won a chance to speak to the convention, delivering his most famous address.


The work goes on because endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.


Carter and Kennedy shook hands, but Carter's team never forgave Kennedy for weakening their candidate in the battle against Ronald Reagan.


And I think it's what the way conventions have been portrayed in the movies. Isn't that, Jackie, where you're running around horse trading at the last minute, trying to chop, trying to change? Not so much like that in the modern day, but certainly can be a very dramatic thing and certainly has been seen in the past as a dramatic last minute switch of candidate type situation.


Another thing that is quite dramatic is the superdelegates the people might have heard of. Just add another layer to the process. There are over 700 superdelegates, which are commonly members of Congress, former presidents, governors and other senior leaders in the party. They could vote for a candidate of their choice. They do not represent the percentage vote of a particular area. But in 2016, Hillary Clinton secured the nomination with her superdelegates appeal. And then Bernie Sanders supporters accuse the establishment of the party for tipping the scales in her favor.


So from now, they will no longer be able to vote in the first ballot of the convention unless it's unclear of the outcome. That means they'll get a vote on any subsequent round of voting if it's not settled on the first ballot, because there can be what's called a brokered convention. And that's something that we were kind of expecting this time around.


Yeah, brokered convention can happen when a candidate fails to win a majority of delegates after the first round of voting hasn't happened to either party since 1952. For Republican Dwight Eisenhower. Delegates keep voting until somebody is picked, until somebody finally wins. And in between these votes, that's where it gets really interesting. You have the horse trading, the negotiations behind the scenes, candidates promising each other the vice presidency or another job in exchange for dropping out.


Yeah, there were rumblings that this year would be one of those type of conventions with a crowded Democratic candidate field. Obviously, things changed after Joe Biden was catapulted ahead of the pack after his South Carolina win. That was a lot of housekeeping, but I think now we can go and have some fun.


Yes. We're going to talk to one of my predecessors here in Washington about what it's like to be at a real convention, Jacqui. And if the jealousy and the disappointment comes out in my voice, you'll understand why. Of course, we all understand why there can be no proper conventions this year because of covid-19. But as we've mentioned, the hype, the drama, the excitement of being there in person and being in the crowds won't be happening. It'll be a virtual online affair.


But we're going to speak to somebody who was in the thick of one of the biggest and most high-Profile recent Democratic conventions.


Well, it's going very quiet, Nancy. Thank you, disconnected. That's funny. We connect all this social distancing had to be in one studio at the same time.


So he so you're basically you're both in Donnybrook, is it? But he's in one studio and you're in another.


That's pretty much. Hello. Hi. Yeah. Oh, there you are. You're back. Yeah I keeps it keeps on coming. Coming and going. Oh. Are you okay. I say yeah.


Fireproof Bufano Jackie. So. Oh you're just up the road. Just pull. Yeah. I'll pull the door.


That better. Yeah that's fine. That's better.


That's good. That's a million times better. Yeah. So let's get a sense of what it's really like with Robert Short, former Washington correspondent. If covid-19 wasn't happening, Brian O'Donovan, it'll look very different for you this year for the conventions.


So we'll have to go back a little.


Don't rub it in, Jackie Fox. Don't rub it in. I'm green with envy. Well, Robert, to see what was it this time around?


Yeah, well, I hate to say, Brian, but you are missing out. I mean, if I if I feel much better.


Thank you, Ridgeback.


It's kind of like approaching twelve years ago now. I mean, the conventions are just enormous fun. I mean, they're kind of like rock festivals for political junkies and journalists like me.


My experience was the the first convention of the 2008 election cycle was in Denver, which was the the Democratic Convention. And there was a huge run up to it because you had had this really long pitched battle between and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama to secure the Democratic nomination, even to begin with. And then you had had, you know, a very long run up in the campaign proper over the summer of 2008 between John McCain and Barack Obama and the the convention, of course, you know, the set piece of all of the conventions is the the formal nomination of the candidate, even though, you know, in modern campaigns, as you very well know, you know, the candidate is already decided.


But, you know, this is the you know, the big formal event. And, you know, when they all descended to Denver, that was you know, this was carnival was a party atmosphere in Denver itself was, you know, a novel choice because, you know, it's one of those states it had a Democratic governor at the time and it was sort of tilting democratic, you know, as a sort of an excitement around us. There's lots of people selling souvenirs and all of that sort of stuff.


So, you know, a real great, great buzz about the place. And, of course, you know, it was just one week after the other. So the Republican convention was in Minneapolis and the following week and well, that got off to a rocky start before we could talk about that as well. Yeah.


Before we go to that, what was the energy like there? And you kind of see people on stage, you know, just clips on YouTube. They must feed off that buzz and energy that creates these astronomical speeches.


Yeah. So, I mean, first of all, the whole week, you know, it begins on a Sunday evening when people arrive in the city and then, you know, there's there's usually four full days of speeches of people rubbing shoulders, lobbying and meeting people and all of that sort of stuff and, you know, begins very much early in the day and then builds up to there could be like, you know, big speeches from party stars, if you like, during the course of of the week.


I remember that week, you know, the star draw at the start to kick it all off was Ted Kennedy and who who delivered a fantastic speech three months after being diagnosed with an aggressive form of brain cancer.


Kennedy addressed the nation. His speech brought tears to the eyes of many in the crowd, including Barack Obama's running mate, Joe Biden.


There is a new wave of change all around us. And if we set our compass true, we will reach our destination. Not merely victory for our party, but renewal for our nation. Obviously, Hillary Clinton, she she was there as well. And, you know, there was lots of events around that. And all of these take place in usually these sort of slightly out of town trade centers or, you know, convention centers. But that week in Denver for the actual nomination speech, it was such a big event that the whole convention moved to the Broncos football stadium in Denver, where there was 80000 people gathered to hear Barack Obama.


Absolutely. To hear Barack Obama accept the nomination and for for the for the Democrats. And I mean, that itself, you know, was an incredible event. And, you know, as a journalist myself and, you know, all the other dozens and dozens of journalists who were there and we we were basically penned in from early on the day. And you could just see the crowd sort of build and build and build and for the main event.


So, yeah, I mean, American politics is, as you know, we all know, it's this kind of weird blend of, you know, the most modern electoral techniques, whether that's social media are, you know, TV attack ads, you know, mixed with really old fashioned barnstorming speeches delivered to crowds, you know, old fashioned meeting, meeting people on the campaign trail. I mean, I can only imagine kind of how weird must all be, Brian, at the moment with, you know, almost a complete absence of that.


Unbelievably weird.


It's not like anything you've experienced. And I keep going back to Joe Biden as a candidate. And you'll remember, Robert, like Joe Biden could not walk out of a room without talking to everybody in the room, including members of the public and the media. So he was a great person to you could rock up to an event. You'd get your few minutes with him. You do an interview with him. No problem at all. Of course, that's all gone.


No, he's in his basement. The access isn't there. It's changed times. But I just want to come back, if you don't mind, Robert, and ask you, like, we had this bizarre Hillary versus Obama primary campaign.


And I know then there paper over the cracks and say we're a party united and everything's great.


But when you were there at the convention, did you get any sense from the delegates, you know? Well, I was really a Hillary person, but, you know, I'll go along with it. Or was it a real sense of we're united?


I think at that stage, you know, even if there had been any sort of disgruntlement, you know, I think that the the prime the the campaign to secure the nomination had more or less finished in May. If memory serves me right. West Virginia and a couple of other smaller states that, you know, it finally went Obama's way. And I can't really remember honestly whether there was any sort of freeze on in August. There was there was no there was definitely no sort of overt split in the party.


And I do remember that Hillary Clinton had a kind of that day all to herself and for her many supporters as well. You know, I think they were disciplined enough to, you know, hold together that week.


And you really get a sense that the two of them utterly overshadowed the Republican campaign. But there were big names there, too, John McCain and who could forget Sarah Palin? What are your memories of the Republican convention and that particular race?


Well, so we all trooped. As soon as Denver was over, we all trooped over to Minneapolis, which was where the Republican convention was was being held. However, on the Sunday evening before the Republicans, the Republican convention was due to get underway and lo and behold, Hurricane Gustav, I had to go back and look it up at Hurricane Gustav, looked like it was going to hurtle towards New Orleans and cause a repeat of Hurricane Katrina. And and this was, you know, a huge story because and President Bush had suffered a lot of political flak over the response of the Bush administration and FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, to what happened during Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans.


And the Republicans were extremely sensitive. And, you know, it was like this kind of weird act of fate that, you know, this this hurricane was was coinciding with the start of their convention. So the convention was actually interrupted. It was. And it was held off. It was postponed. And we all, you know, almost did an about turn and headed off in a series of different flights from the, you know, Minneapolis way to the north of the United States.


And obviously, New Orleans is right down at the Gulf of Mexico. So, you know, we we turned around and went to New Orleans. And now, as it happens, it was a bit of a damp squib, if you pardon the pun. And it wasn't the. Enormous hurricane that it was forecast to be, and so but nonetheless, you know, we broadcast everybody broadcast from there the following day, and then on the Tuesday we all made our way back to Minneapolis.


And the Republican convention got underway on the Wednesday, having been interrupted by the weather. And of course, I suppose, you know, the main event of that week was the unveiling of Sarah Palin, the then governor of Alaska, as John McCain's running mate.


I had the privilege of living most of my life in a small town. I was just your average hockey mom and signed up for the PTA. I love those hockey moms. You know, they say the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull lipstick. Between the two conventions, Robert, what was the smartest, craziest thing you saw or heard all we should me that question before the whole recording.


I mean, I suppose the hardest thing was being stuck in in New Orleans in a hurricane, which, you know, I mean, I suppose just, you know, the general atmosphere, you know, people in, you know, that sort of U.S. electoral fancy dress, which is, you know, lots of people in funny jackets with, you know, badges and pins going back decades and from all of the conventions and all of the election cycles.


Because, I mean, these are the people, you know, it's like a sort of a you know, if you've ever covered an Irish election and you go to your cancer center and you meet the guy who's working on the tally who can tell you about all of the elections going back 20 years and who did what, you know, it's like that multiplied by a thousand. So you've got all of these people who gather who have this, you know, law of the two parties and everything that went on and are completely immersed and obsessed with American politics.


And, you know, it's again, Brian, I'm not trying to rub this in, but it's just living with that for for two weeks. It's a joy and it's a great privilege.


I know Donald Trump is still clinging on to some sort of hope of having some sort of an in-person Republican situation in a couple of weeks time. But I don't know. We'll have to wait and see every time he hoped to have something resembling a traditional speech resembling a traditional convention. Of course, it has been scuppered by covid-19, which is completely understanding. And lest my listeners think that I'm giving out about the fact, I do completely understand why it has to be this way.


Thanks for doing that, Robert. Appreciate us. All kinds of Jews.


Obviously, the conventions will look a lot different this year, but we now have a sense of what's going to happen this week with the Democrats.


You know, the names will be there every night through. They've released the schedule of events Monday night, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday night, before night affair, big names, all the biggest names of the Democratic Party that you can imagine. Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Michelle Obama, AOC, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi. All the big names of the Democratic Party will make speeches each night. But these will be virtual.


These will be done remotely. There won't be any big cheering crowds that won't be done on a stage. And then, of course, the big two speakers will be Kamala Harris, the vice presidential pick, and Joe Biden, the candidate himself. There will still be speeches. There will still be conventions, but it won't be done in the traditional way. In an arena, in an event center, it will be done remotely over zoom over Skype and on your laptop.


The Republicans, though, they've taken a longer time to figure out what to do.


It has been a total roller coaster ride with the Republican convention originally Charlotte, North Carolina, next week, late August. And then the North Carolina authorities told Donald Trump and the Republican Party, you can't have a big convention, you can't have packed crowds of people because of covid-19. Donald Trump was very annoyed at this. He said, I'll take my business elsewhere. And he booked Jacksonville, Florida, for a big acceptance speech. Then, as we know, a spike in covid cases in Florida.


So that had to be canceled as well.


So then they sort of came crawling back to North Carolina and said, you know, is the booking still good? And they said yes.


So they're proceeding with a far, far more scaled back semi virtual convention in Charlotte, North Carolina. But Donald Trump has vowed to make a big, big acceptance speech nonetheless and make it as high profile and as big as he can.


So why don't we check in with the Democratic Party and see how they are feeling about this week and the differences that they face? And who better to tell us than one man who used to run the show?


We're joined now by Howard Dean, who is a former governor of Vermont, former chair of the Democratic National Committee, former Democratic candidate himself. Howard, there ain't nothin you don't know about conventions, so we're delighted to have you on.


If we look at how the Democratic convention is going to play out this time round, no big gatherings, no balloons falling from the ceiling, no huge gatherings of people, no big cheering supporters. Do you think it's going to damage the convention this year because it's going to be such a scaled back, remote virtual event?


Actually, I don't think so at all. I think it's very interesting because in our party, unlike the Republicans, whose average age must be about 70 in our party, we have all these young people and they are now coming into the process of taking congressional seats. They've taken local seats, they're taking delegate seats, and they're incredibly comfortable with all of this. So it may be that that era of balloons falling from the ceiling was going to go away anyway.


And we're just not going to be able to socialize the new generation.


And just thinking that's how you do politics. I don't think this is a bad thing at all. I think it's tough for Milwaukee because they spent a lot of money trying to get ready for this. But I think this may work out very well.


It was a good opportunity, though, wasn't it, to get that media coverage to launch the message, although I take it from what you're saying, you're thinking you're still going to get the media coverage and you're still going to launch the message. Even if it is done from Joe Biden's basement or resume, the point will still be made.


I think that's right. And the interesting thing about this is over the years I've been this is my 11th convention or my 10th Africa lost track, I think my first one in 1980.


And it's over the years, you know, they used to have gavel to gavel convention sometimes on the networks.


That's unheard of. Now, the most you'd get as two hours a night. And more recently, it's even been just for the cover of the vice president, the president's speech.


So this was happening anyway. So I am not sure they are going to give two hours of coverage a night on the networks. I think that's about all we are going to get anyway.


If we're looking at the politics of it, though. Howard Dean, the convention has the power to catapult a politician to the national and even international stage, like when Barack Obama had the keynote speech in 2004, which put him on the map.


I owe a debt to all of those who came before me and that in no other country on earth is my story even possible.


That pause is not really going to happen this year, is it?


Well, that's a very good point. And I'm thinking to myself about what Obama's speech would have liked, looks like if it had not been in front of 20000 people. And I think that you're right about that. I mean, he's a compelling speaker, but doing that and you do feed off your. Our audience comedians actually complain about this a lot. Now, you can't it's harder to stand up on Zoom because there is a feedback between the crowd and the speaker and lots of different settings, not just political ones.


And that will be missing. And I think that will be a loss. And I think that's what Trump is struggling with. There's no way he can he feeds off that feedback. Of course, this is all about racism and all things like that. But he feeds off that and a lot of speakers do. I do it myself. And it becomes an interplay between the speaker in the audience and that will not be there this time. That's not you cannot do that over Zoome when we all know how you feed off that.


I think you were the first political meme. And then we're going to Washington, D.C. to take back the White House out there in 2004 with the now famous Dean Scream.


And I think, yes, I prefer to think of it as the I have a scream speech. I have a scream.


But it must be some experience to be up on that stage with the crowd that is also so charged.


Yeah, it is. And I actually I read that in the Times. I spoke at the 2016 convention. I did that speech again in a place where absolutely crazy. So, yes, it's a tremendous rush. And then you can step off the stage and do mic drops and things like that, you know, I mean, there is no substitute for that. And that we will miss and you're right.


You're absolutely right as well that there are probably some people nobody's ever heard of or hardly are known and they do get a chance to accelerate themselves. One of the people who did that was Bill Clinton, who gave a keynote four years before he was nominated for president. So that is a point that's, I think, well taken.


Another big part of the convention, of course, is the unveiling of the VP pick of the running mate, and they'll stand hand in hand. The crowd cheering again, that will have to be done virtually. And in recent days, we found out who the VP pick is in the fray. Ferrey. Kamala Harris, your assessment, Howard Dean of her as a choice. What will she bring to the campaign? And do you think he's a good choice?


Yeah, I think it was a very good choice. It was. I mean, he had a bunch of choices, all of whom were good.


He chose, in my view, the safest choice. She is more establishment, more seen as more moderate, more.


She's already a high elected office holder, ran for president herself, which matters a lot because one thing that happens when you get out there is you just get pummeled by the press, just pummeled, and you have to really learn how to watch your mouth.


And I wish I wasn't so good at and, you know, so she's polished and she she probably she feels certainly one of the boxes. We have three core constituency groups in our party, young people, people of color and women. We're going to have no trouble with women after Trump's disgusting performance in that area for three and a half lifetime, we're going to now have huge turnouts in African-American votes.


And interestingly enough, people overlook this. But Indian Americans are a very influential group and they are incredibly ethnically loyal.


So I think we're going to get a lot of support from the Indian American and probably the Asian American community, which, of course, has been terribly turned off by Trump's anti-immigration stuff, not to mention his imitation of various Asian people.


You spoke about the different groupings, the different parts of the Democratic Party. What about that left wing progressive wing, the if you can say Bernie Sanders, AOC, end of things they don't particularly like Kamala Harris, a lot of them. They think she was too tough as a prosecutor. She wasn't a reformer.


Is there a danger that the pick has done nothing to sort of unite them and bring those particular voters into the fold? Assure sure.


Of course there is. And you always have to worry about that. But, you know, both Biden and Harris have tacked slightly more center left than Biden, especially Biden has already said the age of Medicare should be lowered, which is a small step towards Medicare for all, which they care about deeply. But the polling on this is very interesting. Unlike the Hillary Sanders primary in 2016, the word supporters and Sanders supporters were polled about two weeks ago.


100 percent of Warren supporters have said they're going to be out voting for Biden. 96 percent of Sanders supporters, which is really new, said that they would vote for Biden.


But the usual style of conventions, they're a time to show that a party is unified and put on that united front. Do you think that that sense of unity can be created online? Because we were just talking about it there and there's been talk over the years about how fractured the Democratic Party seems to be at the moment.


I don't think it is fractured at the moment. I really don't. Trump has united us in ways that we haven't been united in a long time.


But should it should it have taken Donald Trump, though? To unite the party when there seems to be a clear division between what Joe Biden wants and what the progressives like AOC and other members of the squad, what they what direction they want the party to go in.


So, you know, our party is different than the Republicans. The Republicans are old. They're afraid of change. They're white and they operate in a Top-Down authoritarian way. That's always been the case.


I mean, in the last two decades, we're not the Republicans are great at campaigning because campaigns are a military exercise and Top-Down control is important.


The Democrats fight like hell. Everybody has an idea.


Everybody gets their chance to speak and it's really messy. But when we win, we actually care about the issues and we address the problems and the Republicans raise issues like race and all these other things. And yeah, it's ridiculous. So, yeah, it is messy. We're not going to change. We're not a top down party. We're a bottom up party that battles between the progressives and the more moderate people are always going to happen.


And you know what? I think that's a good thing because you don't get change without progressives, but you get change that hasn't been thought out. Well, if you don't have somebody saying, well, what about this and what about that?


Brian, you're on the road again, heading to Delaware this week where Joe Biden will be.


Yeah, so the Democratic convention and its virtual form is still kind of going ahead in a very, very small scaled back way in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. But the place to be really is Delaware, because that's where Joe Biden will make his acceptance speech remotely from. This is his home state. He is based in Wilmington, Delaware. He has a mansion of a house overlooking a lake in Wilmington, Delaware. And he's been doing all his speeches, all his events and all his talks from the basement of that house will be heading to Joe Biden country this week to see how we get on Delaware, the place of Joe Biden's basement.


That's going to be their new tagline.


I think it is. You know, there isn't much else in Delaware if there's tax free shopping, Jackie, you can pick up some gear rather cheap in Delaware. I'm reminded as well of Wayne's World.


I think they did a sequence of, yeah, we'll go to all these cool places that it was like we're going to Delaware.


Oh, we're going to Delaware.


OK, welcome to Wayne's World Party onger for way. OK, we got a new feature on Wayne's World this week, which allows us to travel through time and space. It's called Krolicki Hawaii. And he can come on. You want to lay me past the point or say I want to go to Texas had partners or imagine being able to be magically whisked away to Delaware. Hi, I'm in Delaware. So, you know, it's a bit of that.


But yes, it's now Joe Biden.


And actually, when you cross over the state line into Delaware, the first thing you're greeted with is the Joe Biden rest stop and petrol station and plaza, a bit like the Barack Obama plaza that you have there in County Offaly. So Joe was the man for Delaware.


And yes, we'll be there this week ahead of his big convention speech, starting the podcast with Clint Eastwood and ending it on Wayne's World. Chattier next week or to this week, actually starting at the end of the week. Yes. Chatting a few days, Jackie.