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Six months into this podcast, Brian, I can't believe we've only two months left, I know hard to believe the year, the awful year for most people that was 20/20 is absolutely flying at two months left, Jacqui, but that's only two months left to the election.


Remember, we could have a lot of drama after the election.


Donald Trump has said he may not accept the results. There's this belief out there that if he loses, he but refuse to leave the White House. So maybe we'll have to change the name of the podcast then maybe other states of unrest, states of denial, something like this state of mind to be continued for as long as this goes on for.


But something that we thought wouldn't come out before the election is actually on the way, isn't it? I don't know if you saw the trailer to the KOMY rule.


Looks very cool. A new mini series due to air here in the U.S. in the next couple of weeks. And our own Brendan Gleeson, the Irish actor playing Donald Trump.


Would you like to come over for dinner tonight? Just the two of us. Nobody gets treated as unfairly as I do. It's disgraceful. Sir. I need loyalty. I expect. Loyalty. Yeah, it's based on former FBI boss James Comey, his memoir, A Higher Loyalty. Such a dramatic trailer and released during a very dramatic time. But Brendan Gleeson, he looks and sounds hauntingly like the man himself today.


What happened to me a few weeks ago? It was earlier in the summer, actually, when they announced that they were making this miniseries. And I was doing a live from outside the White House about the day's news politics. And I said and just announced in the last few minutes, this new miniseries is being made on an almost daily basis.


Real life drama is coming out of this White House, all about Trump, all about Comey, and in the lead role is our own. And this evening, there are reports that Donald Trump will be played by none other than Irish actor Brendan Courtney, Brendan Gleeson, rather.


So, of course, Brendan Courtney was very interested on Twitter, the fashion presenter saying, just to clarify, I'm not playing Donald Trump in an upcoming mini series.


I mean, I'm sure he could if you wanted to, you know, if you wanted to mind to it. Yeah, I mean, he presented a show called Off the Rails. We have a presidency that's a little bit I want. Oh, but you and I could work to could have worked. It could have worked.


From Aute EMU's, this is States of Mind, I am your president of Law and Order, you won't be safe in Joe Biden's America.


All groups should have been built monitoring and people. This administration has shown it will tear our democracy down history, be able to say at the end of this chapter of American doctors began here tonight.


Ladies and gentlemen, the best is yet to come, your U.S. Election 2020 podcast with Brian O'Donovan in Washington and Jackie Fox in Dublin today.


You know, one of the things I cannot stand about this town is the backstabbing that goes on here, OK?


Where I grew up in the neighborhood, I'm from WaveFront Stamper's 10 days on the job. That makes Anthony Scaramucci the shortest tenured communications director in the history of the White House.


The president himself, he recently called you a loser. Well, listen, I enjoy that. Obviously, I'm a New Yorker, so you can say whatever you want. But every time he attacks me, my Twitter following goes up about 50000. In the words of Marvin Gaye brutality, we're getting a lot of questions as to what's going on.


What's going on? Absolutely. What is going on? Well, we've just come through convention season and this traditionally is when it all starts to kick off.


I know we have felt like this election campaign has been underway for months, but really now it's this last 10 week push to Election Day. We have our two candidates. We have our conventions in the bag. Interestingly, looking back on the conventions and we spoke a lot about this polls, would they be bounces in the polls? It doesn't seem at this stage like either candidate, Joe Biden or Donald Trump. No major shift in the poll, no big post convention bounce.


There is a sense, however, that Donald Trump is narrowing the lead slightly. That gap between himself and Joe Biden starting to narrow. Remember that Trump message, law and order scaring the life of the people last week saying back me or you'll have marauding gangs on the streets and Joe Biden will be able to control the law and order situation. Biden, looking at it from the other side, saying Donald Trump is portraying this image of a dark America.


Vote for me. It will be a vote and will move into the light.


Yeah, the next two months is the final part of their marathon to see who will become president. Well, it's more like a sprint mad dash to that finish line. Are you ready, Brian? It's kind of your sprint to.


Absolutely. And again, I come back to it feels like this has been underway for some time, but most definitely it's going to be the next couple of weeks. It's going to be very interesting. What we're going to be very interested to see is Joe Biden, as we've discussed in the past, he has basically been in the basement of his house since the start of this pandemic. He is, however, hitting the campaign trail. He is out and about now.


He is going to start doing traditional campaigning events. Donald Trump has seized on this saying, oh, you're only doing this now because you're afraid and your lead in the polls is starting to dip. Donald Trump never really stopped campaigning, but he will most definitely ramp it up over the next couple of weeks as well.


So this is the time to go into the lay of the land. What is going on? This is how it's going to look over the next eight weeks. And this is what to look out for. There are going to be three presidential debates, Brian, between President Trump and Joe Biden.


Yeah, and it's interesting when you look at the debates, Jacki, they themselves actually tell their own story. The first one, September 29th in Cleveland, Ohio, originally meant to be in South Bend, Indiana, but was moved from there because of the coronavirus. Indiana saying they didn't want it the next one, October 15th in Miami, Florida, originally supposed to be in Ann Arbor, Michigan, also moved from there because of the coronavirus and the final on October 22nd in Nashville, Tennessee.


So, as I say, these would be big debates and the very story of the debates themselves, the fact that they've been moved, the fact that they've been scaled back, the fact that, like the conventions, they will look very, very different, reminding us all the time that this election is happening in the background of a major pandemic.


And there's only one vice presidential debate, isn't there? That's right.


Vice presidential debate between Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris taking place on October 7th and then the big day. Put it in your calendars. Don't worry. We'll be talking a lot about it over the coming weeks, Tuesday, November 3rd. That's polling day.


These debates, though, they are more crucial and more important than ever, aren't they? Because of the coronavirus pandemic, people are looking at early voting and voting by mail. More people will be out voting in the final weeks of this election than ever before. Early voting and voting by mail is happening smack bang in the middle of some of these debates. So candidates have to tread very carefully as people might be making up their mind in the middle or not long after that performance.


Yeah, the whole early voting thing, I think is quite unusual for an Irish audience. We don't have anything like that. Of course, in Ireland, it's even difficult to get an absentee postal ballot in Ireland and we certainly don't have early voting. So this whole concept of going to the polls early, most states have some form of early voting and it allows registered voters on specific dates to cast their ballots before the election. You don't need an excuse.


You can't say. You don't have to say I'm away on holidays or jury duty or not around. You just turn up and you vote if you want to. For instance, in North Carolina, early voting begins on October 15th. And that's actually the day of the second presidential debate. Early voting in Florida and New York opens up two days after the final debate. You may request an absentee ballot from your state and a state may require you to submit a valid excuse for that.


We'll get into a more detail about absentee ballots, mail in ballots, posting ballots in the future podcast. Because as you probably heard, this is a huge issue right now here in the U.S. Donald Trump does not like postal ballots. He has this genuine belief that it will scupper his chances. He claims it will lead to fraud without any evidence. But this is his claim. It's a huge, huge issue here and one that we'll return to. But just coming back to the early voting, I was struck I was at a gun show in Virginia last week speaking to Trump supporters.


And in the middle of the gun show, the Republican Party had set up a register to vote booth and they had sign up sheets and pens and clipboards and they were getting people to register to vote who hadn't registered before.


And they were handing out this was in the state of Virginia. So they were handing out the list of dates of early voting dates in Virginia. But their strong recommendation to people was don't vote by mail, which was echoing the Donald Trump. Warning vote in person and don't necessarily vote early because they were saying something could happen that would change your mind, don't get sucked in, wait until the very end. And that's, I suppose, a concern that if you did vote too early and then a whole lot of stuff started to happen, you may regret your vote because time would have run out.


Yes. And just to say pick up on something you said there, Brian, we hear you listeners. And thank you for your suggestions, by the way, on Twitter and on our email, State of Mind at Dorahy, because we're putting together shows on different types of voting. The controversy surrounding that, we'll get into more detail in the future and also other elections happening on November 3rd because there are also elections for Congress. But today we have to bring it right back before we do that.


Now that it's game on, everyone will be hearing about the Electoral College over the coming weeks. You are going to be seeing numbers flying everywhere and some states more than others being mentioned. Before we go and speak to our guest today, former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci about the lay of the land. We are going to guide you through the Electoral College because it's the foundation of any presidential election in the United States. Absolutely.


And again, like we discussed earlier, the absentee ballots, the mail in ballots quite different to the Irish system. So it's worth spending a little bit of time just to explain the whole thing to people. So in lots of countries, national elections are based on the popular vote. It's simple. The person with the most votes wins, and that is the case here in the U.S. for lots of local and state elections. But for presidential elections, it is different.


It is not based on the popular vote. Instead, it is determined by the Electoral College, the electoral college.


OK, ok.


OK, everyone ready turn on the brain to absorb this.


OK, you need to win at least 270 electoral votes to become president. That's because there's a total of 538 electors and an absolute majority of at least 270 electoral votes is needed to win. So where do the electors come from? How do you get to 270? Each state has a number of electors and the number of electors each state has corresponds with its population size. So the number of electors corresponds with its population size when the vote in a state and you win the state's electors.


That's right.


And then, of course, you mentioned about the population there. So if you look at a small little state like Montana, they will only get three electors. But then you have states with larger populations that get much, much more. The four states with the most Electoral College votes or New York with 29 votes, Florida also 29, Texas 38, and then California with a whopping 55. So compare that. Montana three, California, 55. So you're a candidate.


You want to win your California's, your Texases, your Floridas and your New York's. Yes, it's important to win your Montanas, but, you know, that's only three. So if you win California, for example, you will get 55 electoral votes. Your opponent, if they lose, gets absolutely none. So, as I say, lots of focus on those big, big states. Let's focus on the small states. Yeah, the total for those three states alone, Texas, Florida, New York, are 96 electoral votes.


That's over a third of the 270 needed to be elected president. It's clear to see why candidates would concentrate on certain states.


Yeah, because look again at those little states. So let's say, for example, you added up North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut and West Virginia, you would still only get 31 votes from all of those states combined. So the messages go for the big ones. Don't worry about the little ones.


Yeah, this is why candidates do pay attention to key states with high numbers of electoral votes like Texas, Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan and many more. Adding on to this, there are some states of those which are of more interest than others.


Yes. So within those big states that we talk about, some of them are safe states right now. The Democrats, for example, could run a cardboard cutout in the state of California and would win. Likewise, the Republicans could win a cardboard cutout in the state of Texas and win, although there have been some polls showing Joe Biden, you know, inching forward in a state like Texas. But typically it would be a traditionally red state and California would be a traditionally blue state.


What you then have to look at are those states that it's not so clear that sometimes they go red, sometimes they go blue. They're known as purple states, combination of red and blue, and they're also known as swing states.


So Ohio and Florida, they can be swing states because they don't identify really as blue or red. And they also have high numbers of electoral votes. So you can see why candidates go after them and you can see why they're constantly mentioned in the media for 2020, in particular, the. There are a number of states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida, as I said, and Michigan, which people should look out for because they could be key, there could be huge.


And I'm going to pick out three of those Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan.


These are states that were seen in recent years, those all those swing states that were pretty reliably blue Democrat in recent years. And there was this belief in 2016 that Hillary Clinton had what they described as the blue wall, this wall of states, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, traditionally Democrat, that would not be won by Donald Trump. But he did. And he shocked everybody and he won them by the tiniest of margins.


And it was those three states that really did help him to get over the line.


So eyes will be on those three states in this election to see if they are going to stay right or head back to blue. That election, though, Brian, also showed that you can win the popular vote, but not become president. Donald Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton, but he won more electors from key states. So people argue that it can give states an unfair advantage if they have a high number of Electoral College votes.


Yeah, and I mean, it comes back to the whole concept of the Electoral College. It gets criticized all the time here, by the way, and lots of calls to reform it and change it and to have a new system in place. My own personal take on the Electoral College is I can definitely see its advantages. Picture the scene, Jackie. If it was purely popular vote, what would you do?


You'd go to New York. You'd go to L.A., you'd go to Dallas. You'd go to Houston.


You would only campaign in these big populous cities because you just need raw numbers. You just need heads. You just need votes. And you wouldn't care about the smaller states. But when every state brings something to the table, every state is important.


Now, we mentioned earlier about California, 55 electoral college votes, Montana, three people have a big problem with that.


Yes, Montana has a much, much smaller population than California because it is infinitely smaller. And they should not really in a state like Montana, be getting these three votes. That's too much, almost. So they say that proportionally, while, yes, the big state gets lots of Electoral College votes, the small states get too many. So they're saying it's not evenly divided. It's a constant source of debate here in the U.S. about the electoral college system.


But as yet, there is no proper alternative and no real drive to change it any time soon.


And if an election is close, candidates can't really ignore those small states because every electoral vote counts. Now that we are armed with the Electoral College and can go forth in this election, I think it's time to bring in the Mooche. Absolutely.


We're going to hear from Anthony Scaramucci, former White House director of communications and now a big anti Trumper. And I believe Trump just the other day. What do you call him? A loser?


Yeah, I think he got like 50000 extra followers because from the loser.


I'd love that. Come on. Trump called it a loser. I want the followers.


I've never been a journalist, but I have played a journalist on television, as you know, from the Italian expression, the fish things from the head down. But I can tell you to fish that don't stick. OK, and that's me in the president, 10 days on the job.


That makes Anthony Scaramucci the shortest tenured communications director in the history of the White House. And with two resignations and one firing in his wake, he's also the most disruptive.


One of the things I cannot stand about this town is the backstabbing that goes on here. OK, where I grew up in the neighborhood, I'm from WaveFront Stamper's.


So Anthony Scaramucci, former White House director of communications, thank you so much for joining us on State of Mind. We really appreciate it.


It's a pleasure to be on. Thank you for having me.


After the Republican Party's convention last week, what do you think it means to be a Republican in 2020?


Well, I still think it means the same thing to be Republican. It's sort of classic conservative values and conservative philosophy. I think the people that are with President Trump are now Trump is I mean, they may call themselves Republicans, but there that's a different ilk. That's a personality cult, and that is a process of metamorphosis into something that is no longer Republican, because as an example, the Republican Party under President Trump doesn't even have a platform anymore.


And so I call those Republicans Vichy Republicans. If you remember the Vichy French, they sided with Adolf Hitler. And then you have a group of resistance Republicans, which are basically trying to get the party to restate its conservative philosophy and its principles. So, you know, it's a battle between a personality cult and people that are principled. So you tell me I'm on the side of the resistance. I tried to certainly support and help President Trump, but he he keeps moving the goalposts on people.


He keeps testing their morality and testing their personal integrity. And at some point you have to say no to that nonsense.


There didn't seem to be much resistance at the convention last week. Fair enough. You know, a convention is usually to show a unified party, but it more if more, seems like the Donald Trump Republican Party than the Republican Party. Yeah, no question.


Listen, it's a personality. But remember, your read your vote, your Republican voter registration is slightly down over the last four years and the Democratic Party registration is up about eight percent. So now of the American electorate, only 24 percent of the electorate call themselves Republicans.


So are you still Republican yourself?


I am. Yes, I am. I'm a I'm a registered Republican. And even though I disavow Trump, I'm a believer that we have to heal and reconcile the party. There has to be a reckoning here in the party. This is the worst schism in the party since the Joe since the Jerry Ford Ronald Reagan schism in 1976.


Anthony, your attacks against Donald Trump haven't gone without response from the president himself. He recently called you a loser who was making a fool of himself. What did you make of those attacks?


Well, listen, I enjoy that. Obviously, I'm a New Yorker, so mean you can say whatever you want, but every time he attacks me, my Twitter following goes up about fifty thousand. And then I end up getting booked on seven or ten more television shows. So I have no problem with him calling I where I where his acrimony is. It's a badge of honor.


Now, just to explain to our listeners, you are actively campaigning against Donald Trump. You are this one of these Republicans who are out there fighting against him. This particular episode of our podcast, we're talking about the importance of the Electoral College and the swing states. And you were going to be targeting swing states. Are you nuts when it comes to advertising and the campaigning message?


Yeah, well, also grassroots campaigning and also in the swing states. Personally, I will be starting mid-September. I'll be up in Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. And so it's a it's a tripod, if you will, strategy. One leg is to use radio and television, but of the local nature, because most people don't get their news from cable news, they get it from the local news agencies. The second leg will be the talk radio and advertising.


And then the third leg will literally be the grass roots, door knocking dinners, civic center meetings, obviously socially distant, but but speeches in small areas. But I'm predominantly targeting the white ethnic areas of those three states. I grew up as an Italian American here in a blue collar family. And so I feel I can identify with those people. And I need to explain to them that this isn't just a battle of ideas right now. This is a systemic battle to preserve the American democracy and the institutions of our democracy.


What do you make of the Electoral College? Do you see it as unfair because, you know, certain states get more attention than others.


So if you really understand the construction of those documents and you and you study the constitutional convention and you read the Federalist Papers, the founders were always trying to prevent the tyranny of the majority. And so you have to be very, very careful if you have popular.


Well, you can ultimately have mob rule, and so you always want to have the minorities in a electorate, a minority in a democratic system, to have disproportionate representation to protect themselves. And so that's the reason why Rhode Island has two senators and the state of California, which is our largest state, has two senators. And so the Electoral College to me is something I would actually fight for. Otherwise this would be a coastal election and this would be an urban election because that's where the population centers are.


And then the people in those areas of the country wouldn't have the voice that I think that they need at the end of the day.


I think that it's worked for two hundred and forty four years and there's no reason why it can't continue to work. And, you know, Secretary Clinton, unfortunately, I think, took certain states for granted. She didn't visit Wisconsin. I think she went to Michigan once, Pennsylvania three times. And to President Trump's credit as a candidate, he was very aggressive in those states. So this is a different situation now because the vice president has a very high likability quotient.


And it turns out that the Secretary Clinton of this race is actually Donald Trump.


We see Donald Trump's message in recent days, in recent weeks that he is the law and order president. What's your message going into those swing states in the next couple of weeks?


Well, listen, it's a fact based message and it's sort of an anti gaslighting message. The president's message is actually I've destroyed the country. I made you weaker. I made you sicker. I made you poorer. We're in the worst recession since the Great Depression. We have one hundred and eighty thousand people dead right now on our way to 300000 by December 1st. And so but I want you to think that that's Joe Biden's America. And so when he says he's law and order, that's really the opposite projection.


He's actually lawless and disordered. And so what we have to do is explain to people, let's look through the gaslighting, let's look through the 22000 lies and let's focus on what he's done to hurt you and your family. Now, you've got right wing media organizations in the United States that act like a mentor, figure skaters in gymnastics, you know, they're trying to pirouette and tell people that the president's playing four dimensional chess when he's actually sitting at the table eating the chess pieces.


And so we have to sit back and explain to people from a facts based analysis. And we also have the dial down and deescalate the culture war. The president wants you to believe if you live in the suburbs that you're not safe and president wants to believe that the rioting that's taking place and the looting that's taking place isn't born from his policies, when, in fact, it actually is so. So, again, Steve Benen, who I actually despise, think he's a terrific person, but he's a smart person.


He said if you can peel off three to five percent of the Republican electorate, it's over. The president won't be able to win. And if you look at the hard polling data and you look at the data that people like Kellyanne Conway have seen, he's going to get he's going to get annihilated. He's not. He doesn't you can't win the Electoral College map when you're jammed at 40. And, you know, you have a very high floor, which is the result of Fox News and these other news outlets.


But you also have a very tight ceiling to that floor. You're locked between 40 and 43. Go look at the map. I've studied the data. You can't win with that. And so we need to continue to pulverize him. Despite the fanfare and the hijacking of the White House and using it as a political prop, his numbers really did not move last week. You know, he's got false polls out there that are suggesting that they did. But if you really look at the composites and you look at the average polling and the internal polling that we're doing, he hasn't moved.


And that's a good sign.


And there's way less undecided voters in 2020 than there were in 2016.


But coming back to that law and order message, that was the point he was hammering home all last week throughout the convention. Basically, if you don't vote for me, your nice suburban neighborhood is under threat. And when you look at Kenosha, Wisconsin, Portland, this upsurge of violence and unrest, doesn't that play into Donald Trump's message? Because he can turn around and say these are Democrat controlled cities, the Democrats can't control law and order, reelect me and I will.


Well, I mean, first of all, we have to really understand what's going on. I mean, those look like operations. They look like planned operations more than anything else. And I think it's it's it's more than just coincidental that they're up in Kenosha, Wisconsin, because whether that's the KGB inspired operation or some other inspired operation up there, he can't win the Electoral College map without Wisconsin. So to me, I think a lot of this stuff has been contrived, contrived and organized.


And I but I hear your message. I think it's important for the the Biden campaign to disavow the violence. And I think it's is important for the Biden campaign to disavow the looting. But the flip side is this stuff is happening in Donald Trump's America. If Donald Trump did not mishandle the covid-19 crisis and destroyed the economy, you wouldn't have all of this idleness in the American population. You also have to recognize that he's been blowing on a racist dog whistle for four years.


Most recently, he's been tweeting out that he's going to reject low income housing projects in the suburbs, which is basically saying we're not going to have black people come into your neighborhood, which is sort of ridiculous. You know, I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood and my middle class house was surrounded by low income housing. Many of those people went on to become multimillionaires and live the American dream. Should they be denied the opportunity to live in the same area that I live in?


It's a it's a bunch of racist nonsense. So so we have to, you know, fight through that. It's a compelling narrative for racists. It's a compelling narrative for ardent supporters of the president's base. But I think, by and large, it's classically un-American. He's also a bully. And when he goes after his fellow citizens, he is attacked my wife on Twitter. She doesn't even have a public profile. I mean, I don't know you guys don't know me well, but I'm not Ted Cruz.


You're not going to attack my wife on Twitter from the presidential Twitter feed after all the help I gave you in 2016 without me putting up a fight. So I think you'll you'll be impressed and hopefully you'll invite me back after the election. We can talk about how we slayed them because we're going to take them down because it's a very close race. And again, like I said, three to five percent of the Republicans, if we can get them not to vote or move over to the Biden ledger, it's over and it's happening.


You just look at the polling data and you're down to six percent of the people are undecided. We were at fifteen percent at this time four years ago. So it's not a lot of maneuverability for him. He can rant and rave all all he wants. You know, he's going to lose.


We saw Joe Biden tweet this week. This country must not become a country at war with itself. We've seen on the streets of Portland pro Trump supporters clashing with Black Lives Matter protesters. It seems like unchartered territory for the United States at the moment. And from the outside being in Ireland and looking in at the United States, it seems incredibly divided and it seems like the country is in a dangerous time. Oh, how do you feel about the future of your country?


Well, you know, here's here's here's what I would say. Here's what I'm here's what I'm worried about the most, I'm worried about the. The racial tension, you know, I think with the vice president is trying to say is the president is trying to incite violence and trying to create almost like this internal civil war related to ideology and race. And I think with the with the vice president trying to do is de-escalate that. And so I think at the end of the day, most Americans are patriots first and their partisans and tribal second or third or maybe even lower down the list than that.


So I think that that message will resonate. I think ultimately people will say, OK, we've got one guy in the White House, he's destroyed the economy. There's 300000 people dead. We're entering our sixth Vietnam death cycle in terms of the way this guy has mishandled everything. And then and then he's also trying to divide us. And then the flip side is we have the vice president trying to unite us that really understands the sacredness of the institutions of our democracy.


So I do think that that will work over time. I think that we need we need the vice president to be a little bit more proactive. We need the vice president. I think he's said a great strategy up until now. Just letting the president destroy himself and to act like an imbecile has been a really good strategy for the vice president. But I think he now has to get out there and be a little bit more offensive and more proactive. So I think that message that he's saying is going to work.


He's got to press on it a little bit harder.


Anthony Scaramucci, thank you so much for joining us on State of Mind. I will hold you to that. We'll talk to you after the election. OK, please, please.


I'm looking forward to we got a report of a fund. Sixty four days coming up. And and thank you. I'd love to come back.


Thanks a million, Anthony. Thank you. OK, thanks so much. Thank you. So moving on from the Electoral College this week, we have been talking about swing states, we heard Anthony Scaramucci there talking about swing states. So we're going to go deeper into that next week in the next podcast.


Absolutely. Because they are crucial. They could decide the whole thing. They will decide the whole thing. And that's the strange thing about the U.S. system, that it will come down to a handful of votes in a handful of swing states. And that's what happened the last time. Donald Trump, as we know, played very well to what they call the Rust Belt.


So these sorts of communities that have been hit hard by the closures of coal mines and steel mines, he played well to the auto industry up in Michigan. Can he convince them to vote for him again? That will be the big question this time out, and that will be the difference between him retaining the White House or having to leave or as we discussed earlier, Jackie, maybe he won't leave at all. We'll have to wait and see.




And don't forget getting contact states of mind at RTR, i.e., or find us on Twitter as well and let us know if there's anything you think we should be discussing over the next two months, because there's not much time left. And hopefully we can explain things. So you can go into this election knowing everything. So chatty next week. Brian Chukchee next week.


Jacki, thank you.